Creativity Guru Dr. James Kaufman | This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von #260

want to let you guys know that I will be. performing March 7th at the Castle. Theatre in Maui Hawaii or Kahului kau. lui. those tickets will go on sale Tuesday. February 11th at 10 a.m. Hawaiian time so Aloha Mahalo gang Gallo. I'm really excited about that need a. vacation. today's guest is really the Patrick. mahomes of creativity he's a professor.

at the University of Connecticut. he's written countless books including a. creativity 101 it is Professor James. Kaufman. [Music]. [Music].

we're supposed to learn when somebody. has like a sharp object if ever I was. getting like some back stuff done and. guys like a needle this big and he. starts deciding to talk politics I'm. just like I'm nodding him smiling at. everything he says I don't care what he. said you know I can read all the way in. mind yeah right now what you could be. saying anything you want and as long as. you have like a blade this big I'm on. your side. yeah dr. James Kaufman who wrote the.

really is one of the I mean you're kind. of like a little bit of the Sacajawea of. creativity kind of the white male second. Julia in a way I've never been called. that I you're like Lois aunt. some might say Forrest Gump okay I'll do. that but III go I've been very lucky. I've gotten to ask a whole lot of. interesting questions and it's a field. that's just starting to kind of take off. and it sounds kind of silly the idea of.

studying creativity yeah but some of the. stuffs really intuitive and some of it. not necessarily what you think when you. say it's a field that's just starting to. take off like cuz recently I was I was. actually talking to my niece and I said. imagination right and she goes what is. it is it a is it on your phone and she. thought it was an app and it shook me to. my core I was like oh man it made me.

think like Oh creativity is is dying you. know that it's not that it's not like a. new that there's nothing really new. there it's not like a you know like a. seeded forest as much as maybe I used to. think it was or is it that we're just. being creative in different ways cuz on. one hand yeah probably if you gave your. niece like you ever play like though. with those old like refrigerator boxes. or like just oh yeah it's a huge make a. bad layer of Noah's Arden Amistad or.

something like on one hand yeah probably. if you gave her hey here's this huge. cardboard box do what you want so what. why I giving this me. but she might also be able to me make a. video do you any of this study using the. phone write to me you saw that do you. use to consume or create and there's. nothing wrong with consuming I mean I. love watching stuff and listening and. stuff but if you're also using it to. create I feel like the forest isn't.

quite dead yet mmm yeah I worry. sometimes that I mean especially with. the phone I mean even with you know mine. is an example of just the alarm going. off like there's so many interruptions. these days. specifically with my phone - how much it. interrupts my thought processes you know. and even my sleep I brought interrupts. every process it seems like there's a. there's a call there's an email there's. a I mean it definitely seems like these. days there's a lot more interruptions. whereas creativity needs to meet more of.

like a bed to kind of like you know. creativity it seems like you need some. time you got to get tangled up in the. sheets you know oh yeah it's what we. sometimes called flow that moment when. you are creating and you're engaged and. it's like you forget where you are and. that's one like five hours pass and. you're like I haven't even for the. entire day and of course if the phone. buzzes that takes you out of it it's why. when I'm trying to actively write and do.

something I'm actually using like full. brain turn off phone sometimes even. disable Wi-Fi and I can't get away with. it too long I mean right we live in a. world where we get 400 emails a minute. and I got two kids and oh yeah. we have a question that so they came in. right here we had this question in my. name is max and I was wondering if dr. Kaufman could maybe go into a little bit.

of detail about what flow state is and. maybe ways to achieve them because I've. heard a lot about them but sometimes I. just have a bit of trouble achieving. that flow state so if you could. experiment I'll be great thank you a lot. of flow state junkies out there you know. people want that flow state I it's. intoxicating feeling people who I mean. you can get it other ways than just. creating a lot of people who are in the. mountain climbing or running the runners. hives it's not horribly different mm-hmm.

the best way to enter flow is to do. something creative that's a little bit. challenging if it's too hard you're just. gonna go screw it I can't do this and if. it's something that's routine or too. easy it's gonna be simple like if you're. playing the piano and you kind of play. you know and if you just if you're doing. chopsticks you're not you're not. invested but then everybody say okay. Theo here's this like Rachmaninoff.

symphony or something play it you're not. gonna have to do you're not gonna. interview me might be able to get a. melody but it's not gonna connect with. you it's always that slight challenge. and as you get better and you kind of. keep matching it you gotta up the. challenge. it's it has to be something that you. care about that you have passionate. about I mean just one of the first. things that I tell my students is what. are you interested in like forgetting. about the word creativity the word. creativity freaks people out now I teach.

a class several classes on creativity. and one of the things I do is I haven't. do this big creative project and that's. it in terms of the rules you got some. students they are just thrilled they're. running with it like by the third day. they're all man I could do this and this. and there are other students who are. careful like if the assignment was cut. off your little finger they would have. gone that option Wow because that's more. definite that's more obvious yeah but be. creative it can mean anything and people.

sometimes think well I'm not creative. and then they just shut it off and yet. you start talking what what are you. interested in what do you like doing and. then you work on that you play from that. okay and you just keep going in that. passion in that what are you interested. in it doesn't mean you're gonna be. necessarily good at it but creativity. isn't just about the outcome isn't just.

about. reaching a certain level of creativity. that's always great but it's not always. about creating something certainly when. you first start off it can just be in. your head it can be an idea as long as. it has some type of meaning to you like. a business to random thought okay now. but let's say I mean okay actually if I.

could ask like how do you get like for. your last comedy special like how are. you writing it how what was your process. yeah the process is you know I take. things from life that I thought were. funny or things that made me laugh and. then you know I started to expound on. them on stage then I would write them. down into Word documents and sometimes. go back and read through the document. when I was feeling pretty good and like. adding some stuff that I thought was. funny or adding things I wanted to try.

and then I would go back onstage do it. again and just kind of keep kind of. swimming in that circle until I felt. like it was just kind of done at a. certain point my brain I choose not to. work on things anymore because it's just. like to me they're done there's nothing. else there could be a lot more to do if. I were somebody else. but for me it's like this is as far as. this bit or this area or this story or. world is going to go so I think that was.

kind of the process I think is that a. process yeah yeah and one way of. thinking about it is that all the. initial stuff that things that you. remembering happening that we're funny. even this stuff before you remembering. it what is happening where maybe it. something funny you said or you saw or. you're thinking well if that had. happened it would have been funny and. then you're remembering it three days. later some of that stuff is going to. stay in your mind and your in develop it.

and you'll try it out. other stuff will be there and you'll. think about it and you'll consider it. and there's not funny enough not enough. I can do with that yeah it's not enough. for me sometimes it's like it's not. creative enough for me I feel like like. somebody also it might be good for them. but this doesn't fit. maybe exactly my tastes you know for. what I find to be funny like when you. were first starting out you probably. means if you were like me or anybody. your hit ratio wasn't as good yeah you.

know see you just okay light I bet that. could be funny and maybe trying it out. and you learn okay this works this. doesn't or this could really work that. process like from like what's up here in. your head to what you're actually saying. you share with another person that. that's kind of like this personal. creativity idea and that's something. that everybody else can theoretically. think it sucks it's hopefully you get.

better and you can connect with other. people because that's so much of what. creativity is about where when you're. onstage there's an audience and it's. almost this interactive and you're. reading it then it gets to be what we. might call everyday creativity but at. your point much higher expert level. creativity professional refined for sure. I refine I like that because you've done. it so many times and you kind of are. familiar with a little bit of the dance.

you know you know once you get out there. with the audience you know yeah it's. funny you can almost something like. playing an instrument after a while you. know it's like okay these are the notes. that I know and this is the reaction and. it's going to become sort of this circle. and it frees you up to try more things. because like you know okay this is the. stuff that I'll set the table if you. know while I'm working on it and that. some of you can almost go on autopilot. while your brains still going ahead able. to work in something work in an audience.

reaction yeah that's interesting yeah. it's like you're almost like on all like. an Tesla whenever you can just be. cruising you know and sometimes you can. just touch the wheel every now and then. you know like you can yeah it's like. you're driving but every now and then. you you can it's almost like you can go. off the course without even but you're. staying on course a little bit you know. at the same time once you get to kind of. the cruise control of the of the of your. set you know is it hard to be creative. like. I'm thinking like sometimes on stage I.

find easier opportunities to be creative. if I don't know if it's because of the. fee of how my day is going how I'm. feeling my comfort level. fear even is it harder to be creative. from a place of fear it's a good. question so if you look at okay what. type of emotion does your creativity. come from a lot depends on the type of. creativity so let's say that you're. feeling good you're more likely to get. the initial boost so the first minute or.

two you're going to come up with more. ideas but you're gonna be okay with it a. little earlier so it whether it's on. stage in the moment or whether you're. still kind of brainstorming if you're. feeling happy or you're just excited or. just in a good mood it'll be good at. first but then it's like okay that was. good. if you're upset whether it's sadness. could be anger fear it'll take you.

longer to kick in mmm but you won't get. satisfied as easily you're gonna keep. plugging away and so much isn't it. depend on what your goal is. like if you're aiming to get a routine. that is just as good as it can get and. you're still exploring it and it's worth. okay I'm gonna take eight minutes doing. this a bit and some of its gonna be a. little bit slow and maybe it'll be a. moment when I'm worried about losing the.

audience but I'm gonna get something. that I can really work with and it'll be. better and connect better then fear or. anger or just kind of just being bummed. that's okay if you're okay I got a five. minute set I just got to go out boom. done happier is probably better hmm. right I see so if its long-term a fear. and anger can almost drive you harder to. get to stay resilient to find a place to.

find more opportunity for creativity all. the longer-term. it's a question mark in that one of the. things that creativity is so good. it is it helps us cope with these type. of negative emotions mmm yeah I noticed. that sometimes I'll be in a bad movie -. my brain will think up something that's. kind of funny for me and then I will. feel better you know it's almost like. it's like a gift or something that my. brain gave me like to help out you know. it really is and people like we had this.

image or stereotype of our creative. people are crazy or you know this image. of the mad genius or whatever I mean and. whether or not that's true and then. that's something like scientists enjoyed. arguing about we can use our creativity. to if we are feeling depressed anxious. creativity can distract us which can be. amazing. creativity can help us kind of organize.

our thoughts there's this idea called. cognitive load which is kind of a weird. term but it's just how much crap is. upstairs in your head. Oh God and you know you always have. those kind like this monologue and this. recurring thought and all this stuff. yeah. and having browsers open on a computer. kind of you got too much open I mean. just like a computer your brain is like. okay I'm still working on this and still. working on this and still worried about. this what creativity can do is that it.

can connect a lot of this stuff into a. narrative into a story it's why people. who journal ernet or blog they're. actually better off physically and. mentally mmm because they get a lot of. it out yeah it doesn't necessarily mean. you want to be like exposing our heart. and these are my worst fears no cuz like. Shakespearean type of like that nods. yeah because then you also run the risk. if you're almost like ruminating and.

overthinking and then you end up kind of. getting sucked into this it's kinda like. half after a breakup a really bad break. I mean you want to allow yourself time. to be able to just curse Neil oh yeah. get rid of it but if it's six months. later and you're still this was her cell. phone number and all that and you yeah. standing on her porch petting a cat. that's what I did once. six months later she I don't even know. how long later. I don't want to think about it I soon. assess and it brought it up but yeah. it's uh yeah at that point you're not.

yeah you're just ruminating on it's. gonna be hard for anything new - is it. hard for new stuff like is there a best. time for to create like four new things. to come out of us you know is there a. best time I mean say if we're using the. definition of that creativity is. something like a new a new thought idea. like our our most whimsical sort of way. of well I don't know what's the best. definition do you think I mean there's a. lot of definitions that seems like the.

two things that we agree on pretty well. one is exactly that it has to be. something new the other ones it has to. be tasks appropriate that doesn't mean. socially appropriate that that you know. that does not mean inoffensive or. anything but it's at if you want to make. a creative meal mm-hmm then great you. can switch out ingredients whatever but. it has to be something that you could. eat if you decide I'm gonna make lasagna. but what would happen if I used. shattered glass instead of cheese that's.

new that's really new not creative yeah. it's not fair to somebody yeah and like. you wouldn't even say oh that's a. lasagna that's just yeah that's glass. [ __ ] oh yeah yeah nice try I mean if it. were art that we're doing but if we have. to eat then you can't that's not very. creative which need about comedy is that. what's the task I mean just make. somebody laugh right make somebody laugh.

make somebody think make somebody feel I. think it's expanding a little more these. days into also like make somebody feel. almost sometimes I think some of our. comedians have become a also I feel like. you'll get more people like you you also. get applause breaks for people being. able to to make people feel I think it's. always been think and laugh but I think. there's a little bit of feeling in there. these days as well yeah I find when I. look back on my own life it because the.

only perception perception I have fully. as my own and so when I look back I find. I used creativity a lot of times. as like a defense mechanism but like as. a way like we didn't have a lot growing. up so I was like oh whoa I need to. always be able to think or do something. or say something that someone else isn't. going to do it was like almost like a. currency in a way it was like if I can. have creativity that can be a currency.

because it like the wool does that make. any sense. Oh completely if you look at so much. this stuff that we value as an education. system as if we're hiring people you. know we look at test scores and grades. and all this stuff so some economic. status plays a role in that because if. you don't have access to books or a. computer I mean it's harder it's not. your creativity anybody can be creative.

it doesn't matter if you're rich or poor. does it help if you're poor though I. feel like if you have everything then. you don't need to make anything up each. one of those questions if you're asking. me it's like the scientist then I'd have. to go well we haven't studied that. enough if you're asking me as a human. being yeah yeah I think it helps I think. that so much of creativity comes out of. necessity I mean if you always are. cooked dinner and you never have to cook. you're not going to figure out creative. ways to cook or creative ways to okay I.

got to make eight dollars last for the. next two days for dinner or to use. ingredients to armor making my mom stuff. sometimes we didn't have something I. would use something else. you know we don't have flour I'll use. this I'll use epsom salts you know it's. like change it up just as a kid you're. thinking oh whatever looks the same so. then yeah you might get a butt whuppin. you know you might get beaten down but. but at least you start to create this. world in your head when you're like oh. this could be this you know a butterfly.

could be like a you know a color Hawk or. something here's some guy right here. he's got an issue yeah sub dr. James is. because of Nate from New Orleans out. here bouncing bums and smoking. cigarettes in North Hollywood. my questions are both the oh I think. there's a correlation between creativity. and comfort like the more uncomfortable. you are the more creative you gotta be. to find that comfort. I know Thea when Marc Norman talked. about that a little last week on the. podcast and I'd like to get y'all. opinion on that thanks brah whoo that.

and gang gang-bang Nate I hope he's okay. yeah that's it yeah so yeah is there a. correlation between creativity and. comfort certainly if we look at okay how. people think creatively there's a couple. of different aspects of it one of the. real big ones is idea generation getting. your ideas I think if you're too. comfortable you're not gonna be getting. a lot of ideas it's the same way that.

like if you look at okay well what how. can you be more creative if you are. paralyzed by anxiety that's not good but. a little bit of anxiety a little bit of. that just slight discomfort I mean it. makes you think of more ideas makes you. think of more solutions you can't find. something to solve if you have if. everything your life is perfect yeah and. I think that there are other parts so.

like if you're trying to if you're doing. revision if you're testing out material. not in front of a live audience but like. for a friendly audience then there are. times when okay I want you know you may. want to just be comfortable and I want. to sound the best or if you're filming. something but the raw generation for the. brainstorm you kind of want that little. bit of grittiness yeah that discomfort. that it almost seems like the like. creativity would come from a place like. that like if I had to you know if I was. in a cave or something like create like.

creativity would be kept on like kind of. a magic place it seems like I mean we. need a reason to do stuff and it's a. perfectly good reason to entertain but. it's also to solve a problem to figure. it out too. you want something you can't get is just. going back to the stuff we're talking. about well if you know if you're growing. up poor and without resources. you got to be creative yeah you got to. be creative I was thinking yesterday.

like I was thinking I was talking to a. friend and thinking about like living in. a city it like it limits like even like. the tall building is in everything and. and you know and being in more of. traffic and it limits like even just. what my view is constantly like I can't. even see that far and I can't even you. know I like the things I do see it's a. lot more cars and buildings then growing. up in a more of a rural area where you. could see like an open field where it's. like oh I could put something in that. field like your brain has time to like.

you know there's just seems like there's. more of a canvas for your plate for your. brain to play with growing up in areas. where there's more space sometimes. physical space but then I guess that's. not necessarily true because you could. be a great artist that comes out of New. York City and it's one of those there's. always good things and bad things like. in LA you're surrounded by a network of. people like if you want to make an. entertainment you're gonna be in LA.

maybe New York is a couple of places and. use all these resources yeah all the. idea of we co-create so often and you. needed yes we have technology and you. can Skype and zoom but just being in the. room and talking and if you're in. Montana it's harder to be in the room. yet you're also right in that nature can. inspire beauty inspires us and just. having more of a canvas having more of.

something to fill up and if you can get. that type of network even not at a. professional level but if you are. wherever you are and you have the people. you can whether it's right with or try. business with or joke around with as. long as you have that connection with. people it should be okay do you feel as. like we move away I was thinking like do.

you feel like as we move away from even. like for children like you we move away. from like writing with our hands and. into. you know pressing buttons on the. computer - right do you feel like that. like we might be going through like a. real I wonder what the effect that has. on our creative psyche or the creative. like template that we've grown up with. you know like to write or to use our. hands to create more use more clay. whereas now we use more um you might be.

able to do something 3d design or. digital design I definitely think we're. losing something I think we're gaining. stuff because I think technology can do. amazing stuff but I also think there's. something about being creative with your. hands you know whether it's Legos you. know or play or just making a Styrofoam. cup for god sakes just anything you can. do stuff with the paper clips that has.

less than intuitive appeal I mean now. there's an app that you can undoubtedly. link paper clips together and it doesn't. make it bad it's just different yeah. it's just different I wonder what that. effect is on us I guess is it effect the. fact if I'm not using my like my motor. skills attached does it start to weaken. like a part of me where one day my you. know my create whatever the core of my. creativity is in Sodom you'll just be. like an appendix or something in your. body that you don't need you know it.

just makes you wonder sometimes I can. see certain parts of it it's the same. like with Google there's and other. search engines there's certain parts of. our critical thinking and certain parts. of our long-term memory that are kind of. getting worse is that bad. it's not good we need to improve for. example how to learn how to figure out. what sources are good right so we're you. know trying to figure out you know who.

is a 17th president in United States and. we type it in okay boom we don't have to. remember that anymore right but we also. got to figure out okay well is this a. good source for that if it's just who's. president but let's say it's you know. even what's the good Mexican restaurant. around here right. was just something that airy and n was. just being placed by the company that. owns it and we have to build up. different skills sometimes we are. sometimes we're not I mean with social. media all this technology stuff all of a.

sudden we can reach people in a way we. were never able to do I mean if you were. a stand-up comedian in the 40s and 50s. yeah you know you'd be going from Club. to club but if you weren't working with. one of the five or six big clubs which. meant networking connection right if you. didn't impress the one work two or three.

studio executives who put you in a film. or they didn't have that many records. but have you cut a record you were prime. on the outside looking in nowadays you. can work and you can connect with people. and you can communicate directly to an. audience and I think that can be great I. think it can also be a little scary yes. for the ability to connect creatively. the ability to share creativity and get. it out there is really a it's at a. unprecedented space it's like kind of an.

impressing at a level like even. SoundCloud for example like like. SoundCloud now a place or you know where. you know rappers and not even good. rappers can interact with each other. constantly but it's it's like a place. where everybody can be a musician but. does that mean that I wonder are we. really creating better musicians or do. we just have that everybody is a. musician now you know even if it's bad. like is it just you know like sometimes. we you create a stable and just because.

everybody can now have a horse doesn't. mean that any of these [ __ ] you know. it just means everybody has a horse you. still might win a race yeah everybody's. not ready to race really to me the big. danger is is getting on stage too early. because then you're gonna get feedback. and sometimes that's great but it's a. question of can you handle having a. thousand people say you suck right. because some people are gonna go okay. I'm not a good rapper I'm not. I'm not funny and just give up other. people to go screw you I'm gonna make.

you laugh and make you like this song if. you're an adult that's one thing but if. you're 12 yeah how many 12 year olds. have the resiliency to you know you suck. you suck or any of that stuff yeah it's. pretty wild because it used to be like. if you you shared a talent it was a. couple people at your school you know. who saw it and you saw their faces and. the teacher made them apologize to you. if they said made fun of you and it was.

pretty much it was a world that you. could still kind of manage a little bit. you could say to your mom you know. Oh Tommy didn't like what I did you know. and his mom appalled you know and his. mom could call your mom or whatever but. now you walk out and you put it out. there and you know you know Larry you. know Larry Applebaum 7000 hit you up and. he's like you're going to hell or. something you didn't even and your music. wasn't even about hell and you're like. jeepers man and it's always there and. it's always there yeah I mean you.

release a song or a routine when you're. 14 and then you're 25 trying to do it in. it's still there yeah some guys like oh. hey remember I wrote 10 years ago I just. wanted to remind you again that you suck. you're like I mean I publish these. little tiny scenes you know I can. cranked out in people's garages. somewhere like comedy or stories or. horror fiction back when I was in my. teens thank god those are all long gone. I mean they're like lining bird cages.

and they're I mean hopefully just you. know compost heap somewhere if if I was. having somebody who Hey look you wrote. this when you were 15 Oh God I would. yeah we never write again it's true huh. it's interesting in the memory the. memory of the Internet what's available. with like the vault that's there I. wonder sometimes like um I do notice. that it is tougher to be creative I feel. like they're more comfortable that that.

you get I feel like your brain just not. your brain but I don't know it's just. there's something more romantic or more. like inspirational about having to. achieve something even just in the past. year of my own life and having some more. success it's been for when I've been. tired but for - I've been sometimes I'm. like man am i it really challenges makes. me wonder how how am I still gonna. manage my creativity and still make sure. that I stay creative because that's the.

thing that I love the most about. anything was like making a joke or. making like a joke was always if it was. if it was in the moment you know it was. like oh that's something that's. unprecedented you know it's just here. and it's there and it's done and it's. gone and we can never go back to that. exact moment which is the one thing that. I loved about calm that I loved about. comedy the most is just that it's just. that split-second that's that spark of. when a joke happens and you just can't.

replicate it I'm asking a question why. do you love comedy what makes you love. comedy what what makes you want to do. another routine movie special. Oh siq use me sorry sorry to interrupt.

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with the help of an experienced. professional special offer for this past. weekend listeners get 10% off your first. month at better help calm slash Theo if. you need help get help and now back to. the episode I think surprised the. element of surprise I think the fact. that people don't know what's going to. happen and that you know so I think.

there's probably some control may be in. there something. and just getting to make people feel. good just knowing that people are going. to like they don't know but you're red. they're really gonna have fun let's say. that you have two gigs your next Netflix. special and they're paying you three. times as much and small comedy club that. you know you're getting barely enough to.

cover your gas money do you prepare. differently for them yeah how if I may. help ya prepare differently like me for. the Netflix special I'll probably really. rehearse and go through things see what. I'm gonna wear you know have a little. bit more of a Purdue production you know. mindset whereas the other one I'll just. make sure that I get there a few minutes. before I have to go on stage are you. more likely to experiment with either.

one and what you say we try out yeah. probably more ocular to experiment at. the smaller venue club I mean the way. that both from the research but also. kind of just basic human being as long. as you keep varying you're gonna keep. that passion you're gonna keep the. creative need because you're gonna still. have that discomfort you're gonna still.

have that feeling of locating it's like. I mean I know you just you know you I. know you just got signed not just to the. new Chris Pratt movie all this stuff and. like that's a certain both level. exposure but less freedom as long as you. make sure and I know you're going to. that you still have these places where. you have that freedom mm-hmm you do and. you do both obvious just keep it even as. long as you don't give this up you're. not gonna lose it mm-hmm it's when.

people don't do this and it's hard when. this thing is paying so much money and. this is the thing that everybody's. watching and seeing and maybe you know. 50 people are seeing this five hundred. thousand are seeing this it's tempting. okay I wanted to 95 percent of this yeah. as long as you don't get this up because. and that's the stuff that got you in the. first place that's where you're still. gonna be okay I want to try something. new out I want to surprise these people. right in a way that I mean you know yeah.

no I love that so it's yeah cuz it's. almost yeah I love that I think that's. perfect it's like so funny it's cuz it's. just some of the exact same stuff I need. to hear right now. and here's another white guy with a. question here yeah what's up Nick this. is Nick from Long Beach California I've. got a question for the professor coming. in today so I'm a musician and I have. been for most of my life music has.

always flowed out of me really easily I. would stay up late until you know 2 3 4. in the morning just writing and. composing but when I hit about 28 and. I'm 30 now that kind of stopped real. life started to get in the way and that. creative flow drained out of me and I. don't know where to find it again I'm. sure there's a some kind of chemical. reason or cause for that but I just. wanted to know if that's common and what.

I can do to fix or combat that Gang Gang. Gang bro it's a great question I request. a vulnerable question - thanks Nick and. I mean if something I can identify with. I mean I always wanted to be a writer. and I wrote plays and I kept doing that. through grad school when you're not. really supposed to like a playwright. yeah I've been I've been lucky I mean I. I had a lot of my short plays produced. places I mean nothing anybody would. heard of right but a playwright yeah.

it's like how do you even unless you're. going to ancient Rome or like you know. stratford-on-avon were you even gonna. get a gig and so I did. but you know my day job which thankfully. ended up loving but once I got the. full-time job I got married you know I. got kids I stopped writing plays for. about 14 15 years I've only recently. tried to get back into it I mean a lot. of it is at a certain point your real. life starts creeping on you.

have to make a living you have to. fulfill certain obligations you have. people who depend on you all of a sudden. I mean if it's just you and you're and. you're single you know kids there's a. certain freedom I have two boys I adore. him you know but if I were to suddenly. quit my job that's not just me right not. just affecting you. yeah life comes in it's it's it's why I. think so many times I attach creativity.

to the young too like when you have that. nest around you to when you have just. you're not thinking how is there gonna. be food tonight you're not thinking. where is the milk how who to put in gas. none of those things are part of your. wheelhouse. and then as you get out into the world. more you're like okay I have to survive. I have to take care of myself you know I. may have to take care of others. you won't even just saying there's three. things right there that's not theirs no. yeah there's no room for Crete there's. not a lot of room for I mean you might. be able to cut your son's ego when it's.

a star but outside of that you're not. doing a lot of arts and crafts and yet. here's a kicker like he knows more about. music right now than he ever has in his. life it takes knowledge and experience. to really get to the next level and we. have a society this school system that. doesn't really value creativity it. values the test scores the grades do. this do that I mean I'm seeing this. right now with my youngest who is this.

bright creative a little and a little. bit a little bit of a pain in the ass a. little bit of a little bit of an imp I. could guess I don't even know I mean and. sometimes the school isn't really. thrilled and you know we get these. emails or phone calls and it's just a. god and I mean heck my impulse is to. start going okay let's just let's just. tone it down a sure you know let's just. they say this just just do it by the. time that you're out of school by the.

time that you know you're in college or. at a job you know it's not rewarded it's. not reinforced people say they want. creativity most don't they. want little creativity they want o. figure out a quicker or cheaper way of. doing this right. they don't want an idea that'll be well. we actually now maybe we should really. rethink our approach now this stuff none.

of your teachers want to hear why. they're wrong I mean I love it but but a. lot don't though no which would honestly. welcome a lot of creativity because then. you're creating a lot of conversation. you know yeah definitely the more that. we are set in our ways about things and. the more that we leave things set around. us. and set things harshly around us which. happens a lot these days especially in a. lot of businesses because there's so. many the lawsuits are so many like you. can't veer off the beaten path you can't.

even be creative you can barely even. speak you know without fear so for there. to be room for creativity sheesh that's. the first thing out of the door a lot of. times biggest advice give yourself an. hour a week you know where okay yes you. have all this crap you have to do and. you're tired and and you and you're. spending all this time on just survive. it keep yourself an hour a week turn.

everything off and it's okay if you. don't produce anything it's okay like. again my thing is writing but when I. have writer's block which is a lot it's. okay to just read something you wrote. before and try to remember that mindset. it's okay to just helps a lot oh god yes. because you're reaching back to where. you were being creative or just type. words just to me when I'm trying to. write like more of my nonfiction easy.

stuff I'll write the title in my name. and then I'll do a page break and I'll. put a placeholder for where like the. introduction goes and all of a sudden. month I'm on page five yeah hey I mean I. didn't read anything but there's a. feeling of okay I can do this I'm doing. something yeah I'm in this the table set. you know I remember remember when you. were young you would risk write your. name all the time I mean for like. probably the whole time I was in school. just kind of writing my name and drawing. it differently and adding something you. know or writing something draw. a picture of a hat or something you know.

like you see your you always had a pin. you always had a you an immediate. element with the pen and paper and you. had to have it out in class to look like. you were doing something to him so you. were always there was just a half such a. half-second between yourself and. actually creating something and whether. it is drawn whether it's writing whether. it's whatever whereas in a laptop which. I mean most of my students have they'll. have their laptops out or their phones I. mean you're much more inclined be. opening up Instagram Twitter and there's.

nothing wrong with that but you're more. likely be consuming and if you have like. 30 percent of your brain that you're. focusing with you're probably not gonna. be doing something new and you'll be. where that okay well if I'm moving my. thumbs or looking down at my crotch the. professor's probably I figure out what's. going on yeah whereas if you're just. writing and taking notes and but then. you start writing something else or or. drawing I mean there's a certain. immediacy there's a certain you create I.

mean you physically creating something. that feels more tangible I guess maybe. since it's right there as opposed to. like a laptop or something and it's done. is there I mean when I'm in my idea. phase I still want a pad of paper and. yeah you know it because if I want to. all of a sudden start drawing things in. relationship to each other I can yeah. and I know you can do that unlike. Microsoft whatever it screws up every. time I tried it to it and then I start. going into okay problem solving how do I.

fix write next thing you know your whole. hours going you spend it listen yeah I. mean I hope he's gone and right and it's. like okay and then you're upset yeah I. mean how how many times I take four you. lose all you all your work when you it. crashes before you're like yeah yeah. it's to go back to what that young man's. question was I mean I think that was a. good suggestion to go back into what. you've done before because you were. creative then so I I noticed like I'll. make a gratitude list about five days a. week right in the morning and because I. I've struggled with trying to have.

gratitude making sure that I have some. gratitude I feel it but I need to really. practice it and I want to feel it more. and so some some days um. I'm like man I I don't want to do this. so what I'll do I'll go back and just. read things oh I'm so thankful for this. friend of mine I'm thankful that you. know I have legs I'm thankful that I. could see you know different colors I'm. thankful you know for sharks I'm. thankful for this or that you know. plants or whatever you know different. you know different ways that people you. know people can walk backwards I'm. thankful for anything you know just and.

then next thing you know my brain it's. like I don't know I'm just in a place. now where I'm like man I am thankful for. stuff I am grateful for things look at. all these things that wrote man it could. be a hundred pages of stuff and and then. my list is easier and then I even feel. what I've already was talking about I. wanted to feel gratitude I just I am. grateful instead of sitting there just. pining like I don't know if I'm grateful. today or not you know yet it's going. back to our work which was a starting.

point before that we conquered. absolutely and you're always a little. better than you think because when you. first do it you probably are not as good. as you think but then you work on it and. you're remembering what you used to do. when you're probably very critical but. then you go back and you know maybe it. was more raw but you see who you what. you were thinking and it's a little. freeing yeah I mean listening to the. music that he they hate that he did oh.

yeah five years ago does this listening. to it you know I mean listening to in. the car and I mean some part I mean like. part of me is a very hard time reading. my own stuff or I mean seeing myself or. watching myself. um but reminding yourself of if you're. not who you are creatively where you. want to be remind yourself of when you. were yeah ten versus Inuit that person. is there oh yeah and that person still. listening and paying attention and. thinking and has new melodies and and it.

doesn't mean these are gonna be. brilliant melodies you know I mean there. are all these books you know how to be a. creative genius you know I can't tell. you that yeah because frankly most. people aren't but who cares. I mean when some ways everybody's. creative in some ways aren't they oh. absolutely it's the word genius that I. hate. oh yeah because yeah everybody wants to. be a genius everybody wants to be the. best with creativity I mean yes there.

are some people who of course who are. creative geniuses but I love that you. think about your audience and that. audience it can be just you can be your. friends I mean it can be the person. you're doing something for I mean if. you're working on something you know. that you want to give to your girlfriend. to your mom you know I mean think of. hopefully not the same thing um yeah. sorry some areas that we got some select. areas out there where there is illegal. you know and you think about who is it.

for a it kind of reinforces the. motivation but it also okay well her. favorite color is orange I'm gonna work. that inner oh she really likes. Chihuahuas and it kind of guides to work. you can be your own audience after you. do it I mean I'm just thinking about you. were talking about you have the ideas. and you try them out then you go back I. mean when you're reading or speaking the. ideas from a while ago you may not even.

remember when you wrote it down no yeah. and it's almost like you're. collaborating with yourself in a weird. way yeah it is it's funny yeah and. thought about that exactly I just. recently started doing it like I was. having trouble so when I went back and. read and it made me feel so much better. and I was like oh man I'm I'm writing. down things that are great I can do this. this isn't and I have a lot in me I'm. like I'll look at all these different. things and it made me yeah it just set. the table so much differently inside of. me because I showed up with this dis.

press tour to create right now you know. one of the things you were saying made. me think about like discount we're. constantly creating now you know it's. like we have to update we need an update. on our Facebook we need an update on our. Instagram we have to update we need new. we need content you know where it used. to be you would have something and maybe. like man how was your thing for a while. you know we got a question that came in. right here from a possibly young. Vietnamese fella who is he.

it's your boys name from Denver I just. wanted to know what you guys thought. about creative overload sometimes I feel. like I want to create everything like. I'm trying to start a podcast I want to. make music. I want to animate my text and and do. video editing and I want to I want to do. everything but sometimes I just feel. like I gotta pick and choose what my. energy goes and I just want to know what. do you guys ever feel creatively. overloaded where you just you just want. to do all these different projects but.

can't or do you guys just pick the. things that you feel most passionate. about let me know what you guys think. Thanks it's Zane signing off gang gang. gang gang it's a great question same. yeah maybe Russian uh you know that is a. great question won't you the doctor man. yeah I thought it was kind of similar to. what you just like yeah just all those. different we used to focus on one thing. now there's yeah and it feels that way. too doesn't it and certainly I mean I. feel creative overload I I always have.

too many things that I want to do and. too many other things I have to do and. the thing about what his aim is talking. about is that sometimes they were in. different areas and it takes different. things to be creative in different area. yeah it takes some space between the two. sometimes I think I'm doing banking and. then I gotta you know I'll close my. Chase accounting and I'm supposed to. write a paragraph about something I need.

a few minutes man yeah it takes. different knowledge it takes me you. can't practice the city is different. practices you know when I was younger I. was like okay I miss everything now I'm. older you know and one of the big. actually one of the big things was about. two years ago I had a heart attack no. way man and I was a lot bigger oh wow. lost weight I mean still big but you.

know I think you look right sighs I. think you do a safari you like you do uh. you sir hunted dinosaur I would see you. doing those things James had probably. the first one eaten but then that's all. right. and elected maybe that delectable choice. you know and a little more tenderizer. while so did that a ja I mean what did. that he changed it because I was I. decided that there had to be a. particular reason for me taking it any. project I did I mean one big reason was.

the passion to love that you know this. is something I love doing it's like. right now one of the books I'm doing I'm. a big theater geek and me and a composer. who zombie prom and a lot of really fun. musicals. Dana row we're finishing up this book on. creativity musical theatre for young. performers and just kind of conveying. all this how can be creative and it's. just fun we Skype every Wednesday and. it's one of the most fun I've had on a.

project Wow. I do things to help folks I mean I love. mentoring students and so I'll just I. have a graduate students undergrad I'll. do stuff that is closer to their. interests that will help them advance in. the field because that to me that you. just be able to give back even if it. just a little bit is huge and I mean. third thing is more practically like. okay some things pay money and money is.

a decent thing to have right but it's. not letting any of that certainly not. letting the money part overwhelm things. but it's not like her to make that I. mean you can't just follow your heart. because right because you also have to. survive it does become a balance you. know I'm just going back yeah it's like. it does yeah you have to balance it but. like you're saying that balance is. what's going to also keep you in a space. to be creative to want to stay. passionate yeah that overload is such a.

big thing man it's like you got 19. things open going on you just agreed to. do something else because you want to do. it it sounds great and just you can. really get burnt out how do you make. choices. um I've gotten a little bit better about. saying no about things I mean really a. lot of times if I find if I'm. overthinking something too much then. it's not something that I wanted to do. so unfortunately I'm. extremely indecisive it's something that. I just I really struggle with it and it.

sorry well it's hard to say no though. yeah or so we tend to be people pleasers. yeah I mean you're in a comedy you want. to make people laugh you know and sign. them no I can't do that but you know. when people to like me I want to like. myself you know so I'm not trying to. please them I'm trying to please myself. and between that pack of wolves it's a. yes it's a constant yes and there's so. many options and things to do now so.

that's another thing it's like say you. make a to-do list of the things you had. like you said things I have to do and. then when I'm done with those things. that I would like to do so you get your. half twos out of the way your. requirements then you're left with a. list of things I'd like to do but then. today there's seven thousand things. trying to influence you and there's so. much other available content. it used to be yet it ride your bike to. your buddy's house to even look at his. diorama for 20 minutes you know and then. his mom me always hiding pornography. somewhere and beat everybody's butt but.

now it's like you can you know you can. uh you can do anything you can order a. sheep's costume you can be playing. Legend of Zelda with set people from. China you can do anything you want and. it's right there so though and those. things are very addictive so for those. things to be sitting on top of the. things you would like to do every time. your passion projects and stuff and it's. a real battle because I mean you can't. be creating 24/7 it's exhausting your.

time you know and so you have the mean. first it's just okay well I do want to. blow off steam and relax. you know and then what are the things. that are exciting enough to me that is. know most that same category that. working on this creating this thing is. the same level of fun as the really fun. thing that yeah whatever it is you enjoy. doing it may not be that probably isn't.

creating I mean if you can find. something that you're working on that. you get that same level of passion. that's. even though this is brain work or its. emotion work or its requires fought an. effort I still want to do this even more. than just you know doing that they. allows me to zone out I mean that that's. a pretty nice sign that you're onto. something yeah that you're onto. something you really care about yeah so. it's hard it would be hard to say no to. things but it does get easier to do it. and then what I start to realize is.

people appreciate it when I can. communicate a lot clearer you know it. really even though part of me is like I. don't want it to say this because I'm. going to upset them it's really people. just want to make the most use of their. time as well and to really be able to. communicate clearly and really just find. out yeah what's what is really. passionate for you you know sometimes to. your course and I was just hard to admit. to yourself cuz absolutely I mean if. you've ever I'm sure every but all of us. have worked on stuff that just your. heart wasn't into it and it was kind of. boring but you knew you had to do it I.

mean yeah high school and beyond that I. mean I'll do like two minutes of on that. and then all three minutes on something. else and it'll keep coming back and I'll. be doing minute by minute by minute. until this 10 minute task will take me. like 4 hours because I hate it so damn. much yeah I mean if I think but why why. are we creative you know like what what.

we need out of necessity probably. originally stuff we need you know it's. tough enjoyment I mean. oh yeah like if you want to say you're. in a man you're in Adam and Eve or. somebody or you know Larry and Janet or. whoever you believe in you know say you. know or Rachid and whoever you know Sean. trace or whatever whoever's in the. garden and the guy sees the girl walk by. he might try to do a magic trick or. something with a stick and a leaf or.

something to try and get her attention. he's gonna be creative he's you know I. mean even in nature you see those little. lizards and stuff show off their. backbones and whatever you know they do. that where you got to put the bowerbird. there and they go and they final this. pretty stuff and they ya make like a. like a something pretty or they'll hide. a piece of food and they'll build stuff. around it. but some male bowerbirds learned we. don't need the piece of food we just. take a rock build over it and by the.

time the female bowerbirds get to the. rock and they're going hey that's a wife. or though the male bowerbirds 10 miles. away going thank you yeah sayonara man. damn birds are wild but yeah it's so. yeah creativity because you want to get. something here's some people right here. decent group that's a beautiful group.

look like nurses or something maybe. traffic with the photos up there were. cast also teachers possibly yeah it. could be teachers where lots of binders. yeah beautiful groups of ladies and a. gentleman right there. yeah are left-handed people more yeah. let's answer that for them a doctor. that one's easy no no the whole. left-brain right-brain you know no no. that matter no doesn't work that way. creativity is not a left brain thing. analytic reasoning is not a right brain. thing it's all way more complicated and.

something that both of us to be trying. to understand for the next five hours. and not come to something but it's not. right brain left brain. I say yeah you always had people be like. oh well Daniels left brain you know. can't you know you don't know how to. play dodge ball or something like what. the hell does that have to do with. anything. yeah some people it's just like the most. simplest way to say things I guess. sometimes and it's I mean you can't. blame them no I mean it's like whenever. there's a new study out about creativity.

people always forward it to me and it. will always be a quick and easy thing. you know you want to be more creative. try and it's you know a messy desk or. going for a walk or having some. chocolate and it's always well you know. I mean it probably wouldn't hurt but. it's not gonna make you all of a sudden. more creative I mean maybe it puts you. in a good mood you know we're talking. about you're in a good mood you might. come with more ideas yeah you're not. gonna suddenly be you know you know. who's a famous artist do the GOP's.

newbie yep Picasso Charles oh yeah yeah. not gonna say yeah you're not gonna. suddenly be yeah I remember when I was. they said if you eat peanuts and raisins. together at the same time it'll make. your brain activate and you'll be able. to be more creative and I remember they. would give us that before at school that. some of the some of the parents would. bring bring them in little bags for the. kids and class if it was that easy I. mean I mean come on if you knew that. there was anything you could do that. would make you funnier you'd do it yeah.

and the only thing I can do is practice. yeah is it the same with creativity than. you think yeah I mean if there was a. quick easy sexy solution of oh you want. more creative just blank I'd already be. a multi-millionaire because I would just. be doing that creativity is about. revision it's about figuring out what. you need to know and getting experience. with the domain and you know if you want. to be a writer reading other stuff if.

you want to be a comedian you I mean. thankfully this part is more fun but you. got to watch a bunch of comedy I mean. there are certain rules so to speak even. if comedy where it's not oh I want to. break the rules you got to understand. them before you break them well now you. can watch comedy not even by watching. like you know comedian sets even just by. being in a lot of funny instances. watching other people be funny seeing. what works and what does in like I'll. see somebody do something sometime and.

they don't even realize it I'm like oh. man that's such a unique way to be funny. that person isn't they don't even. realize what they're doing but sometimes. you meet people just the way they are. and the way that they talk or behave or. something is just extremely funny for. some reason it's like it's like the joke. is not that they're the joke personally. but just the way that they approach the. world is just it's like the setup is. already there so the punchline when they. say anything it's a punchline you know.

going back to what you were talking. about with uh with education and how. they really do not they don't it's not. that they don't value I think teachers. really value creativity when they see it. but it's it's almost like they don't. have time to teach it or or it's just. not something that we value as a society. or it's just that we already have put. enough pressure on our education system. that has nothing to do with them you. know what do you think I think you're I. think you're in on some great stuff I.

mean most teachers who I know they want. to encourage creativity I mean there's a. lot of this stereotype of Oh schools. kill creativity and all this stuff I. mean not really I mean most teachers. truly want their students to be more. creative usually they don't know how to. do it I mean when you get trained to be. a teacher there's no class on nurturing. okay there is it Yukon because we help. you know is not how do you nurture.

creativity and it's not always intuitive. I mean so often the impulse is okay well. you know to give the gold star or the. reward and you know that can kind of. kill creativity pretty easily. so you've teachers who don't always know. and then teachers who may not trust. themselves to know it's creative even. though they probably know a lot more. than they think they do but then you had. the whole I mean the schools are judged. by the standardized test scores any.

least standardized test scores I mean I. mean my first two years out of grad. school I worked for a testing company I. mean I I it's not that they're. meaningless or anything because I mean. people tend to feel very extremely. either standardized test scores is the. only way or they're complete garbage and. neither is true I mean they mean. something but they don't mean everything. and when teachers pay is determined by. the standardized test score of their. students I mean should I be teaching the. test of course yeah you got to keep your.

job I mean you have to survive people. gonna want to survive it's and it's not. even like I mean the principals and. superintendents often don't have that. kind of flexibility I mean the places. that I've worked with that are excited. about creates if you're doing really. good stuff a lot of that is when people. up on high the superintendent both have. the flexibility and the interest and it. trickles down I mean one problem is that. that really good people end up getting. picked up for better jobs maybe sector.

stuff and then boom Schuylkill school. goes right. back the way it is they bring in a. principal who wants things know why are. we doing this we need these test scores. it's um. and the funny thing is creativity adds. to test scores I mean there's some work. I'm doing with this school in Australia. with this guy Tim Paxton it's the. Geelong grammar school and they've been. looking at creativity and increasing. creativity and we just found out that. creativity helps predict their big test. score almost as much as grades do and.

grades obviously and if I say hey you. get good grades you thinking to get a. good test score of course yeah but if I. say hey you're really creative you're. going to get a better test score yeah I. know maybe well creativity I remember. helped a lot of times especially that's. why I love when it came to the question. with the the written out ones because. you're like oh I didn't study I didn't. read anything but I got a chance you. know. it's like if you could find a way to be. crafty enough in that space when you had. a write out turn when you had a really.

give an answer it was like what do you. think about this then you really had a. shot I felt like some time with. creativity you could really create. something you know you could yeah you. just had a chance you know you had a. chance to make something new you had a. chance to make something novel now one. thing so say if like you know this a lot. of times teachers up to teach based on. the test scores and and a lot of a lot. of people at a certain point they might. think oh well this a lot of extremely. creative people will drop out of formal.

education or you know go you know public. school whatever school and still do. really well. I mean sometimes that even drives people. doesn't it doesn't it doesn't that. sometimes spur nor creativity more like. oh they don't understand me here in this. space I need to take my own path which. is kind of what creativity is sometimes. or it can they have to get lucky and. this is also where money comes in if you. have these people who feel that way and. they drop out but they're from a.

well-off family that's one thing you end. up skew skew you end up losing more. people I think than you gain so to speak. because certainly you have people screw. this I'm dropping out I'm forming my own. company and you have these amazing. success stories but you also have the. people who have. they could have just been allowed to. flourish a little bit more in high. school would have realized wait I'm. passionate about this and I can express. myself this way and then would have.

stuck with it and done something that. would have used their creativity and. contribute to the world you know it's. funny sometimes like I think some people. are really creative like people can be. creative and all type of way like the. wait somebody loves somebody could be. very creative oh yeah the way that. somebody you know I had an ex-girlfriend. who you know she would do really nice. things like leave a really nice note. sometimes if that was really sentimental. you know and I always thought it's not.

creative but just to her idea of how to. create love and the show expressed that. was very creative I thought I'd argue. that is creative yeah it was created. yeah to me it was creative I guess it's. just not with the gym well we generally. think of when we think of creativity. exactly and that's one of the things. that limits us cuz I mean if you think. of okay what's creative I mean arts okay. somebody who paints their drawers or. composes and yes it is so science so. it's business and so all this stuff in.

everyday life from writing love notes. magic magic oh god yeah magic animal. training oh I have an African Grey. parrot who I've taught to quote science. to lambs oh really. yeah freaks the hell out of our guests. to win this round. yeah you know I used to make love to a. girl in Denver if she had a great parrot. that would stay on my shoulder the whole. time let's go Kelly back in the day but. you know that her parrot still makes. sounds of the kind oh yeah oh yeah oh.

man Wow the only sound it made was Ari. that's why you but Maudie's knows I'm. not really sexually good at it but oh so. does the parrot yeah oh the parrot. doesn't take up smoking like I did at. that time there's different times we had. a couple of other questions I want to. get to one video question that came in. here right here for you I also had a. question about drugs and creativity like. a lot of people think it kind of.

inspires them or they need it to be. creative have you done research on that. do you see people are more creative with. alcohol or weed so there's been a lot of. research on this and oh yeah by a lot of. my friends even the informal kind your. producer kind of like the mental illness. question you're gonna find this study of. that study saying this or that but I'm.

gonna just give them more overall thing. a lot of people will smoke weed drink or. do other stuff because they think it. will make them become creative and. people who for example who smoke pot. they think they're being more creative. so if you have a bunch of people and you. have this half we're going to give you. some weed in this half we're gonna give. you like oregano but it's tell you it's. weed and they all do something creative. the people who are on weed are gonna. think man we were just we did great this.

is super creative but then you take what. they did and you show it to other people. the people on pot aren't more creative. mmm it's there's no difference it's just. a perception it's just perception and is. that perception only when they're under. the influence of potter when they're. high because when they sober up do they. think yeah I guess they just think oh. and I mean what of course I could not. speak from experience but how many of. you may look back on what they were. notes they took whatever or scribblings.

when they were inebriated or on some. chemical and go what the hell was I. thinking or this is not the answer to. the world problem yeah I thought always. had a world bro that's so funny why one. time I was real real high and uh and man. what happened oh I thought I had this. great joke I drove by I wasn't driving. but I was in the car by myself going. forward of course and uh and I saw a. snake that like a snake a cartoon snake.

on a billboard and here's the joke I. thought I thought. self I was gonna tell my friends oh I. saw a snake don't worry it was on a. billboard that was the joke and it was. and I thought at the time no young man I. wrote it down nine times to make sure. I've written it down because I don't. trust ink that much when I'm high you. know and then the next day I read it now. I was like oh my god this is the dumbest. thing ever. and that's when I was right then when it. was the dumbest thing ever.

yeah so so overall that's that's the. truth but is there sometimes I mean. there's some times where somebody under. the influence could do something amazing. oh of course I mean it's also whenever. we study stuff there's this question of. whether something's related or whether. it actually causes it mmm I mean it's. the same way they say like if you give. infinite monkeys typewriters they'll. write Shakespeare I mean if you have a. whole bunch of people who are getting. high regularly which kind of describes.

college people are gonna do really. creative stuff yeah it doesn't mean the. weed is there a reason why they're being. creative it's the same thing with mental. illness and creativity of course all. these people who have different mental. disorders may be incredibly creative it. doesn't mean there's any causal link and. if anything it may be that when things. are acting up it may be harder to create. or in a more positive way the creativity. may help them cope in and feel better.

but it's not some romantic Vincent van. Gogh cutting off his ear you know and. you know I have you know yeah I've done. 37 shots of vodka I'm going to create. the world's great novel it doesn't. really work that way maybe you're drunk. and writing the world's great novel but. probably not probably we importantly. father's an alcoholic who also wrote and. so a lot of times they marry the two. that it was you know there's definitely. a romantic romantic ization that happens. over time with almost anything really I.

feel like we almost romanticize anything. so you're gonna take the fact that he. probably had alcoholism and then put it. with the fact that he wrote a lot and. next thing you know he's this great guy. who's sitting behind a bottle of scotch. and we're not really thinking about all. the other alcohol. who maybe would have been amazing but. who were passed out in their own vomit I. mean that's Ole Miss universities where. they don't hurt University of. Mississippi it really is sorry oh yeah a. shout out to campuses there but you know.

what's because I used to worry you know. I don't do drugs or alcohol and I used. to worry that if I stopped doing those. that I wouldn't be able to be creative. and it's a fear of a lot of people and. there's no evidence of that just as. there's no evidence. similarly a lot of people are worried. about taking like prescription drugs for. anxiety depression that does not hurt. creativity really and that's I think. that too sometimes that's funny I do. there's no answer and it's so important. to realize that because people often.

won't seek help you can't be creative. after you're dead right that definitely. sees his creativity I mean and if you're. suffering even if you look at the most. scary or typical of you know the mad. geniuses or whatever are the people with. extreme depressions or manias like. Howard Hughes maybe he was an extreme. case but yes I suppose I just say. extreme cases at the most extreme was.

not when they were being their most. creative but if you're going up and down. at the peaks in the valleys you're still. not creating if it is always worth it. both my life point but also even a. creativity point to get yourself better. yeah I mean. what is there something inside of us. then you think I'd like a like a like a.

man versus world level or something that. makes us think that having pain or. something will give us creativity do you. think it's some we want something to. have a reason for existing and had. things happen and that sucks and bad. things happen to us and that sucks if we. can make something come out of it okay I. had a shitty childhood but I write about.

it or paint about it. therefore it was worth it mm-hmm so. there's an inspiration there a lot of. inspiration come from struggle a lot of. creativity does creativity come from. struggle it can absolutely but not only. from like it's not it's not not enough. so to put yourself through this struggle. I say you know so it's like I mean yes. if you grew up with these hardships that.

can absolutely be an inspiration the. same way you know if you went through a. period of making bad decisions but it's. not a reason to make more bad decisions. or to do more things I say because it. just doesn't we want it to make sense. because then whatever stupid mistakes or. this relations if I can work us exactly. and I mean I wish life was that easy you. know I mean yeah it's nice if it.

justifies for us as we're getting better. if we use it as like oh man yeah all. that behind me I'm glad that's behind me. now and I'm using that as like mum as a. motivation or inspiration or momentum to. do something different now absolutely. but if we're using it as well I should. probably stop doing this but it's making. me creative that's not helpful yeah. that's just a bad that's that's just not. the truth you know yeah what do we have. here Nick here's a beautiful little lady. right there could have fixed her hair.

but [ __ ] it. she wrote that I didn't hey James my. name is Renee from Pennsylvania. and I was hoping that you could cover. the different types of creativity I'm. just assuming that it's almost like. different types of intelligence and if. it is maybe something that the different. types of creativity can do better than. the other types almost like a career. path or something like that or if you. can expand on the different types just.

in general I'd be great thanks thank you. absolutely so there are a ton of these. different theories about stuff I'm just. going to pick a few really kind of. important stuff okay so you had the idea. of divergent thinking and that's being. able that's a type of creativity when. you're coming up with a whole bunch of. ideas mm each what you might think is. brainstorming oh yeah and that is really.

good at the beginning of a creative of a. project there's what's sometimes called. convergent thinking or idea evaluation. and that sounds really unsexy because. choosing your best idea that doesn't. sound creative but that ability is also. incredibly important mmm because you can. come up with 30 ideas but you don't have. time in your life to pursue all 30 right.

and figuring out okay these two are the. ones that are the best the most creative. the ones that I think can work that is. its own ability and process there is. what's sometimes called associative. thinking and that's mean these different. concepts or thoughts and there's often a. fairly obvious connection but trying to. think it was many different connections. as you can so like if I say cow there's.

30 words they're probably right away. coming into your head and then that you. know Moo no boy yeah making okay how. remote can I go. how much can I think of things other. people aren't gonna think of these are. all different types. of what we might call like creative. thinking there's also a lot of stuff. involved in the creative personality one.

huge thing is being open to experiences. this is wanted to try new foods wanting. to do new things wanting to just has me. experiences when you say what the hell I. mean I'm gonna try this even though I. haven't done it for some people is. traveling for other people it's wanting. to get into nature. there's also openness to ideas and. that's wanted to challenge yourself.

intellectually that's wanting to debate. people it's wanting to problem-solve but. it's also being willing to accept that. you might be wrong hmm so openness to. experience tends to be related a bit. more to art's openness to intellect a. bit more assigns e-business stuff. [Music]. another component that sometimes will. happen but for idea generation is. problem finding we're so used to being.

given the problem often were solving the. wrong problem yeah oh yeah I mean that's. you could call it I call it the. government any any time you want. throughout history I feel like Hollywood. does that a lot of times I think they're. always everybody thinks they're. proactive they're very reactive and. they're always solving a problem that I. feel like is eight months too late I. feel like I mean everybody yeah one. successful movie does something and they.

come out with 30 movies just like it. yeah it's let's say that all your. friends are like you know Theo you're. just not that funny there's a bunch of. different problems you might be wanting. to address one of okay maybe you're not. funny maybe your friends are just. [ __ ] right who knows you got to find. out what the problem is and it all could. be the problem yeah a little bit but so. often does jump to something where I.

mean if you realize oh I'm not making an. money to be able to still live in LA. there's a lot maybe you're okay I'm. gonna work more and make more money or. I'm gonna cut expenses if somebody's. been hacking your account and it's. dealing 2,000 bucks a month you're off. solving these problems and n it it's. still you're still getting screwed right. you're solving problems you might not. even have because you're not seeing the. a different problem I didn't see that so. there's even creativity when you're. looking for what the problem is. oh yeah and and in real life it's like a.

doctor trying to treat a patient you got. the symptoms and I mean certainly yeah. there's the old saying that you look for. horses and not zebras. but sometimes it's a zebra yeah and. being able to do that not jumping in. with both feet and ending up wasting all. your time and resources on solving the. wrong thing that's a new problem right. there if you do that yeah I just made a.

whole new problem I know we had um we. had a met dr. Jordan Peterson had a. theory about creativity yeah it was just. you know his idea of creativity was that. in order for something to technically be. creative it has to be something new. mm-hmm so I guess I'm curious one. example I could give would be say you're. a fan of music and you'd make a cover.

song of somebody else's original music. you've then created something new that. wasn't there before but is it really. creative what I'd argue is that just. like before I was not much different. when I was talking my different creative. processes there's also different types. of creative contributions you might say. where you have some that are the. shockingly new oh my god this changes. the field and everything is different.

and that's what we often will think. about you know when we think about you. know Tesla or inline roller skates any. of that the iPhone all that's the iPhone. but this almost creates a B that we know. is. usually just like a little step forward. and I mean so okay you know that water. bottle that you have that is a slightly. cheaper version of a different water. bottle right that was a little bit of an.

innovation or that design is made so. that it gives you a better angle when. you tilt the bottle back these are all. modifications is this shocking. creativity. no but it's incremental it's a little. small bit and then you have this almost. replication creativity where you're. doing things in your way and that and. this would be you know you're doing a.

cover of a song or you painting your own. version of something you see like happy. and it is own version of The Simpsons. and I was actually and this is a great. example I mean is this creative I think. it a really creative. is it shockingly new well it's somebody. else's style it still counts I mean it's. one of the things I often will come back. to because people and I'm sometimes I. feel like a broken record here they'll. say oh I'm not creative whatever and.

some of it is they'll think well yeah I. did my own version of it but that's not. new and okay maybe you're not a genius. so you know I'm not saying people are. all geniuses it still counts it still. counts yeah and you get you get credit. or whatever you want to say for that I. mean there is um you know the Lonely. Island song with a comma no no that's. what t-pain's yeah they've just had as I. would say in my class to be delicate. they've just been physically intimate. with somebody okay. and they keep giving all these.

situations still counts still counts. wears a bag on her head. still you know you're doing your little. doodle and you're not showing to anybody. still counts you're you know if you're. telling a joke and your own way that you. heard another comedian say assuming that. you're giving credit um still counts. you're skewing your own spin on it. you're you're making it a little bit. better you write in fan fiction or. whatever you're doing your own version. of something it still counts and you're. creative it doesn't mean you can't. improve you should.

right it counts and give yourself credit. for that yeah if you build a building. even though somebody's already built a. built a building and you're not Franklin. Lloyd Wright was he a building maker. yeah okay then. yeah still count so you still built the. building you still did something you. don't see he so did something. magnificent something that's hard to do. and something that's still gonna be. there is it hard for us to do they say. everything has been done I'm sure you.

get approached with this kind of. question a lot I mean you think we're. getting close no I mean back in the. eighteen hundreds the guy from the. Patent Office while everything that. could possibly be invented has been. invented listen an [ __ ] cuz everybody. keeps saying that he's my pessimist I. mean we always end up going in different. directions I mean if you go back to the. 60s and you try to see okay well what do. they think the future was gonna be like. it was all flying cars and the moon and. living you know okay that didn't happen.

but we can communicate with anybody. instantly you can have a buddy who lives. in Spain and you can talk to him every. day for free yeah whatever I mean nobody. ever would have fallen out in the 60s. they're getting probably some guy. thinking that it'll just be different. right we may not know the new medium we. may not know do you think there's still. a lot we can learn scientifically. there's still a lot to learn out there. do you think there's like oh yeah that. word you you because sometimes I feel.

like oh we've we've kind of figured it. out everything we got the periodic table. of elements we know everything at tier. we know we know all the recipe items you. think there's more out there I think. there's a lot more out there than. already is I think that I mean it's true. for I think anything but we know a very. small little bit and I mean studying. creativity is not curing cancer is not. in nuclear physics or whatever right or. even close but but if the world of.

possibility I feel like as part of it. was creativity and just trying to figure. out you know what makes people more. creative what are the people who are. creative what do they have in common how. can we help it how can we help these. people how can we encourage it how can. we. figure out I mean just how do you get. feedback to somebody it's get them to be. more creative I mean if you're cute. harsh yeah they're gonna go okay I guess. I just suck at it. but if you're too lenient they're never. gonna learn there's gonna keep sucking. obviously there's somewhere that medium. point there are so many of these.

questions that if you actually look okay. well what does the research say I mean. even it's me like you know the. creativity in marijuana that's such a. everybody thinks that doesn't that. certain questions that you know people. always want to know and it's been. studied but we're talking twenty. twenty-five studies not four hundred and. I mean how do you measure creativity. right I mean I have some answers but. there's a whole bunch of different. creativity tests and they're all good.

for this bad for that and if you have. thirty studies. five of them and use this measure and. five use that one and six for a skin. people what they think and so you can't. even really combine all of it and so if. you're trying to ask a really basic. questions like okay well are people who. are creative in physics are they the. same people who are creative in music I. mean short answer is probably not but we. don't quite know we're still figuring. out or what are the things that will.

kind of predict who's the creative. scientist who's the creative businessman. or businesswoman who's a creative. teacher or if they find some tangent. between physics and music that's. suddenly the whole playing field is. different and suddenly you're physicians. are damn you know kid rock or whatever. you know and and that such where's that. and the funny thing is a badge the type. of creativity that scares the crap out.

of people like the little incremental. stuff do you know we're making this cop. show except now the cops are all. professional circus clowns you know. that's like a little bit forward. nobody's scared of that everybody likes. that it's when you're talking well hey. maybe when we do surgery we should be. you know Megadeth listening to Megadeth. or we should be doing it and using our. feet instead of hands I mean that's the. type of creativity of stairs a crap edit. and they don't like it they don't like. creative people they say they do but.

they don't well then there must be such. a difference then between somebody who's. able to think creatively and somebody. who can't there must be all right or. maybe when it comes to ideas I feel. scared come to that mind instead of. can't I'd say won't I think all the can. but it's risky it's taking a risk I mean.

are you willing to risk pissing people. off or looking stupid or losing money or. all this stuff in order to put forward. this idea and so many of us aren't some. money must take the safe choice so many. of us I mean it's a hell of a lot easier. to do it's been done or just to tweak it. a little bit I mean if you wanted to you. could give the exact same comedy routine. every single time and you'd be fine the. rest of your life and there are a lot of.

people that sounds pretty great they. don't have to think but just when yeah. but it's certainly yeah I would lose. yeah you'd go crazy I'm crazy you know. you have that need to create not. everybody has the need but others had. the need don't know how others had the. need but don't have the resilience don't. have the support I mean I was lucky out. of really encouraging a family you know. and folks are psychologists I had really.

good teachers like a lot of people who. study creativity often oh they had to. stay struggled in school or wherever you. I was lucky I don't mean like I was a. great student but I really liked my. teachers and I was supported and I was. lucky I mean there are people who don't. have these advantages and it's you got. to be brave and resilient and then push. back and keep going and it means defying. defying other people defying yourself to.

mean having all these people always say. you're wrong you're wrong yeah or having. people not understand you as well it's. like a way that you take. you know it but to you it comes off as. you're wrong you know just people yeah I. think people not understanding you as. well can really lead you to can really. lead you to sometimes refine what you're. trying to say which is what's necessary. anyway but it's like now it's not.

necessarily saying you're wrong it's. getting personal about you yeah you know. how it's gotten wild out there. I mean you if you're making a joke on. social media I mean that's what you do. that's how you create not just social. media right but it's not just this one. thing people just go yeah I don't think. I don't think that's funny. but you also people you're an [ __ ]. damn I didn't know that yeah I just I. mean I knew I loved it look I'll accept.

that I'm not funny today but I will not. accept that I'm an [ __ ] yeah that. judgment it's so easy to be right there. on the to judge something that's not in. front of you you know we had her buddy. recently in the comedy community that. like made some remarks after Kobe Bryant. died and it really had a sharp. backlash and everybody was you know. people that didn't even know him. suddenly were furious and it was really. all the people that kind of knew him I. think maybe were like oh we understand. it so this is the way he operates. sometimes this was not a he didn't do a.

good job here as far as everybody was. concerned maybe a couple of Voldemort's. out there that he really impressed you. know but on a large scale a lot of. people heard about him for the first. time and we're and this was a bad way. for it to happen you know as far as him. feeling okay and stuff and I'm certain. hurt his feelings but yeah it's like. people aren't really understanding these. days on social media is not a real place. to be understanding it's not very human. and we always assume intent and this is.

this isn't even a social media thing I. mean if you're driving and somebody cuts. you off. you're not thinking oh maybe they're. driving their pregnant wife to the. hospital and then they're desperate to. get there you're thinking that guy's an. [ __ ] and it was intentional and he. looked at me and said screw you. yeah but when you cut somebody off. you're like whoops that was a mistake. Pope don't know it they'll be okay with. it they know. two different worlds going on when it. comes to creativity do you think about.

like do you think that there's a higher. power sometimes or something that puts. ideas into us like a lot of times I feel. like we're not been my most creative I. don't feel like it has anything to do. with me I feel like I'm just kind of. like a conduit or whatever septic Oh for. something yeah like oh there's no way I. came up with that idea really I mean. certainly whatever you believe in you if. you can just let yourself whether it's. your unconscious whatever letting your.

brain be a little open there's a reason. why people get really good ideas in the. shower or when you derive it because. your body's occupied and you're doing. something and so you're not necessarily. distracted and your brains just open and. your mind is wandering and that's one's. whether it's your subconscious whether. it's God whatever it is putting ideas. the muse making sure you have those. moments when you allow the insights to.

come as huge and if you're always. boom-boom-boom-boom. you're not gonna have that time you. could have anything trying to sprout. ideas and they won't they won't take. root yeah you got it. I mean you got to make sure you have the. FIR the fertile soil out there right. yeah you could have the Archangel of the. dang universe trying to fly out of your. out of your damn septum but if you're. always on Instagram you might miss yeah. I mean just letting that moment of.

reflection you know everything in. moderation to a degree guys anything. else you wanted to chime in now this is. fascinating though I love to go back. over your own work to kind of spark that. creativity I think that's like really. actionable thing people can take away. from it is what going over your own work. to spark creativity when you're feeling. like your creative juices run out I.

think that's something everybody can and. kind of adapt yeah of almost it really. blew my mind when I realized that. you know and not even realize but it's. just so funny just in the past maybe. month I've like man I don't want to. write this gratitude listed specifically. what it is and gratitude such as it's a. real such a real feeling and a visceral. thing that I I need to feel a lot of. times to try and just feel OK in my day. and then I go back and I'm like oh man. and I'll read him and it's like oh then. I'm there it's almost like I've already. made the list I get the feeling as if.

I've already made the list and it's a. real feeling it's not doesn't feel like. a SIBO either and I mean it's for life. but for creativity a certain kindness. and I mean kindness to yourself also. when you're going back and looking at. your old stuff I mean yeah you're always. me a little critical but be kind to your. younger self when you're thinking I mean. it's why co-creation is such an amazing. thing I mean one of my favorite things.

as a researcher is to collaborate mmm. you know and then I hate that have you. found the right collaborator and of. course you got what you got you got. these two guys right here also. oh no Nick is wonder if I mean Nick is. wonderful and we did we probably do it a. ton I do it a ton without even realizing. it hi there I have some fear about. something about it makes me feel. uncomfortable. you know I just like what I don't know I. don't want to it's like I'm afraid to.

share not afraid to share I'm afraid I'm. trying to trying to think out the rest. of this feeling I'm afraid to like have. yeah I can almost figure out what it is. sometimes I really have to be able to. get right on the feeling I don't like. it's like a trust thing I think you know. it's like I really do I trust this.

person enough with like my do I trust. somebody else enough to to share the. things that are most important to me. which are like my ideas you know and are. they going to reject them and is it. rejection or is it having them take the. ideas and turn them into something you. don't like I think it's at the courts. rejection I think that they're not gonna. like them or that they're and if they. don't like them then they don't like me.

and so it's my own attachment to my own. ideas as well then and yet there's. people you trust enough to share you. don't ya think of it as collaboration so. is it that you'd be worried about let's. say collaborating with somebody who you. who you believe either would have we're. being rejected by them would be. particularly painful yeah probably the. probably it goes back to other. relationships in my life or it's like I.

just have a lot of fear about that you. know and so but then it's it sticks even. though sometimes and work and stuff you. know I don't want to I have to do it my. I'm only used to doing it my way you. know I'm just scared to not do it my way. there's a danger there of course cos if. you just listen to those words do i I'm. afraid to do it my to not do it my way. and you wanted to do it this one way. there's a certain danger there well we. miss out on a lot of probably.

collaboration I missed out on working. together with people are there people. who you know you know appreciate and. like your idea it's Navis established. that who you would trust obviously again. there are people but people who you. normally would have dismissed. collaborating with but yeah probably so. so really it's just as strong fear. that's not really. it's not really serving me and you're.

asking if fear helps it hurts creativity. I mean I think in a lot of ways it can. hurt it because we got to take risks any. risks are scary you know I mean [ __ ] I'm. a professor I'm not a performer this was. a little scary particularly given I have. lost you know three of my front teeth. they're gonna know got him I sound like. Daffy Duck what does the best part of it. those awesome dude if you could shoot. that and land it in a lady's wineglass. out of dinner dude I could get you a job.

somewhere New York tonight you could. like one of those magicians that goes. around the tables you know my teeth now. is that the three of hearts and my teeth. in your hand. why yes it is your teeth and now they're. back here get your teeth out of my. wife's I believe it buddy oh yeah no I. guess you're right I mean that fear just. really prevents me from having that. co-creation you know and it's.

interesting hearing you say that that's. one of your favorite kinds is that. collaborative because that's that makes. me really think I'm missing out on some. cool stuff and certainly not with. everybody it's not like oh it's all one. being happy you know but there is a. three four five six people who and again. not Nicki all at once but I find elevate. my ideas mmm and they make me think of. stuff that I haven't really thought. about before I mean one of my main. collaborator does a guy named Vlad.

everybody should have a good friend. named Vlad he's awesome he's brilliant. and he does cultural stuff all about how. we interact with each other in. socio-cultural a lot of the stuff I do. is more individual so okay well what is. you know Doug is creative and Bill is. less creative and Sally is the most. creative how are they different the same. whereas Vlad's more interested in how. can they all be creative together and. when I was first like oh man I don't. know about that stuff and he's one of my. favorite collaborators not because he. gets me to just think in new ways and it.

was hard at first you know and you have. to kind of give up a little bit of some. your assumptions and involves trust yeah. um yeah I can imagine it it almost. sounds cool because then you're like wow. this person could get me to think. different and ways if a if I already. feel like I'm a creative person if. something that I pride kind of been. myself there's not a lot of things but. that's a thing then if they could get me. to be creative in different ways that I. don't even know I mean it is pretty.

tempting. yeah I have a friend named Aaron and. he's like my most create he's like he's. kind of business minded a lot of times. but even in that space he helped he gets. me to think so many different ways a lot. of times yeah I think just being a. little more open to it and it's not like. it means now you got to only co-create I. mean you still you there are some things. that will always feel like okay these. these are my personal ideas I want to. marinate and do it my own way there's.

other stuff and maybe it's a stuff you. couldn't figure out quite how to make be. amazing like okay I like this idea but I. don't know to do with it and so I put. over here even if funny how ideas you've. had I mean there's little ideas that I. had 15 18 years ago and suddenly they'll. come into play when I meet someone or. something or or I'll see a new medium. and I'd be like oh that's why this thing. has been spinning in my head for so long. it's just waiting for this place to land. that didn't even exist yet it's kind of. amazing isn't it that to me is. fascinating man it's like almost the way.

the galaxy is like you have these things. spinning around and we don't know really. what the moons are I mean we have an. idea but suddenly all of a sudden you. know somebody comes through on a. battleship and there a moon collector. and then we're like oh now I know why. these things are out there this guy's. here to pick them up you know you just. don't know it's like yeah it's pretty. fascinating it's funny how like there's. a point when I like if I if I think like. a virtual reality something I'm I've. still to me right relative I know it's.

been around for a while the. possibilities for being creative in. virtual reality are amazing and like. we're only starting to really move with. that really I feel like it's the worst. thing for why because it's not me being. creative I feel like I feel like I used. to have the video game inside of me. and now I'm like just looking inside of. the game and looking inside of somebody. else's imagination or like a company's. imagination someone more like that but I.

mean the ones and there's more and more. stuff developing out there but the ones. that are showing you things you wouldn't. have seen but then not prescribing not. saying like because I agree there's some. games when it's okay I depress the left. button you got to do that that mean it's. gonna be fun but I'm this stuff when. you're truly exploring and what there's. enough open stuff out that you're. connecting things they're just you know. you can play impossible instruments mmm.

you can make art that wouldn't be. possible in the real world you can. co-create with people and all around the. world I mean it's yeah they have a cool. app where you can sing with Asian people. and whenever you want and they sing and. you sing the same song but it's in. different languages and then they mix. them together I mean I love folk I mean. that is pretty cool did I'll give you. that it's pretty cool yeah man I mean.

that's one thing about creativity it's. like we stopped this conversation it. keeps on going and two weeks now you're. having thoughts you know like it's also. one reason why I like the collaboration. so much because my internal dialogue. it's pretty good you know. yeah but the dialogue with other people. that and then you think and then you. think oh what would they have said about. that. and well okay I decided not to take this. risk as I'm worried about that and I get.

that but how would it look if I did. what's the worst that could happen if I. did you start branching out and thinking. I mean yeah I mean that's what yeah I. mean yeah it's a connection there's so. much creativity in that not having to be. creative alone you know I I one more. question for you I know like you know a. lot of our listeners struggle with. pornography addiction and stuff like. that do you find that there's been a lot.

of studies and stuff done on how like. pornography like really damages like the. creativity of ones like sex. libido I feel like cuz he stuff to. create these worlds in my head you know. which would then resonate in my body I. would feel like I mean I think so much. of it comes down to your ability to. control and that if any addiction to a. degree out of control is gonna limit you.

whatever that is I mean if you're. addicted to food and you blow up you. know if you're watching so much. pornography that when you think of sex. your mind instantly goes okay this is. what happens mmm Dania you're probably. less creative in sex if you're looking. at it as an inspiration or hey what if I. try that with my partner or whatever. mm-hmm not necessarily so that. perception then is really and what.

you're able to certain amount of. self-control and in terms of it I don't. mean it's actually I mean in a creative. way yeah in that seeing all these things. but wine okay I wanna put my own spin on. this I want to and also not having that. into what's the destination of what's. the journey you know if it's okay I am. watching pornography and mission. accomplished and that's all I need to do. then yeah your own sex life with your.

partner is not going to flourish right. if it's inspiration if it's okay this is. part of the journey and I'm gonna I'm. gonna take a few things from here maybe. bring it introduce them every year see. how it goes maybe see if they're open to. it I mean that's a good point. one of the tried and true ways of being. creative is it take different genres or. things and you combine them mix them up. you know I'm taking this from that just. from that what had a mash-up yeah you. know I mean applesauce yeah an apple pie.

Western in space. oh yeah thank you you know yeah like. Star Wars or something that was a bad. one but I used to think yeah a good. space Western did ever have one Star. Trek was it a space Western and we're. really was kind of. they went from let me you take that and. you put that in the old frontiers days. in a covered wagon it's the same story. yeah. and instead of aliens just people from. Fresno or whatever yeah and a lot of the.

bat a lot of the places that win even. look like Fresno a little bit I mean it. was just a Western they put it in space. I think that's all we got that's great. dr. James company uh you're teaching now. at UConn yes I'm a professor at. University of Connecticut and doing a. whole bunch of research on creativity. and give so many books and if I don't. we'll put a lot of that in the intro. whenever we bring you up got my website. and working on number differently.

layperson books and I know after a while. doing research you more and more having. again it's the heart attack like I want. to do stuff in the real world I want. actually help people be creative instead. of just you know well it's interesting. because yeah it's like a lot of people. don't go to a school book place you. don't go to a campus bookstore to get. books you know a lot of times you go to. another you know you'll go to other. outlets and stuff to get books and so. yeah um yet creativity is my favorite.

thing man so I appreciate you coming. here until hi every day and and I've. often felt that people who are really. successful in different areas are a lot. no more know a lot more about creativity. than they think they do hmm. comedies are the top ones hmm I was. quite excited about this because just to. hear your thoughts can I pick your brain. a little bit oh thanks man yeah I just. always thought like I was just very.

aware like too much sometimes and so I. was always creating like different. scenarios of what could go on because I. was aware like what was happening so. much like okay this person is over there. this is going on you know the Sun is. setting this is happening right now what. are we gonna do what's gonna happen you. know mom's coming mom is feeling like. this every you know just was always so. many things to like balance that the. awareness was always heightened I felt. like when I was young and so that made. me suddenly when I was sitting there. riding with a piece of paper and.

thinking. about things there was all these things. were there was an awareness for them in. the page it was an awareness for. everything could be a character you know. like the son had a had a you know it had. aspirations and you know and and the. mailman. you know maybe played jazz you know. there was just different things going on. when whenever life happened you observe. but sometimes became exhausting though. just the other side of it we were just. overwhelmed by constantly worried about.

what people are thinking and feeling and. not knowing that you're okay so put you. in like an unsafe space you know so the. creativity you build in it's very. negative almost because your brain. creates a lot of like scary situations. it's the danger I mean some of its can. be perfectionism some of it can be me. imagination can be used for less. positive things if you're worrying about. what could be and then if you have a if. you're very creative you can imagine all.

this stuff I mean how many times the. people said well what's the worst that. could happen well if you're if you can. imagine all that stuff it's harder yeah. I mean to me it's yeah yeah or if you're. it a lot somebody who's thinking a lot. and so much of that is is being able. channel it being able to okay well I. know I have all these ideas ping-pong in. my brain the more that you can express. channel in these more proactive ways you. know the more you can let the other.

parts your brain kind of just yeah it. really is like petting a cat like stay. there but he'll stay there yeah anything. else you wanted to talk about James so. much but not but hopefully had another. time in the future I would love to have. you back in Chris huh sue and there's so. much stuff that I mean I'd love to. listen back and even it come up with new. things to think of yeah because there's.

so much just this creativity has to be. good or bad. can it be bad you know all sorts of. stuff that well yeah I mean some people. created some of the worst [ __ ] ever the. blimp. that machine oh yeah member Hitler. and but that and that's a question was. he creative right it's so funny because. I thought about that earlier today a. little bit I was thinking about what it. what could be creativity and I mean yeah.

that's a risk of creativity isn't there. Fame it like Pandora's Box isn't that a. thing of mmm it's basically just a thing. of Arts and Crafts somebody just cracked. open a little box of Michael's craft. store I feel like is it that something. good or back you come out of there and. [Music]. it's creativity is not creativity is not. good or bad inherently it's like it's. being smart good or bad I mean it's good. for you but if everybody was smarter.

would the world be a better place know. everybody nobody would be driving a. Corvette either I'll tell you that if. everybody's more creative the world be a. better place yeah bet maybe but then it. might become that's not everybody's. trying to out create like out creative. each other at such a level where it's. just getting ridiculous as well as you. know you'd have all the serial killers. be that much more creative you'd have. all the people being that more creative. on how to screw you over in business.

deal. oh I'm either worse we can't handle it. anymore out here I mean the studio. executives would be that much more. creative and well you can assign the. rights for this I mean you have to think. of it all those layers well if everybody. just becomes more creative and that. means a bad people do too and it's that. good as a bad I mean some of it's how we. choose to use our creativity in this. practical way I mean like what we almost.

started with if you wanted to use your. creativity to make people happy make me. feel better yeah I mean that's a. wonderful positive thing there's other. people out there who aren't going to be. thinking that yeah that's the dark arts. that's what we go and fight all the time. it's uh yeah sometimes it's like and. then when things become more of a. business - it gets less yeah it's still. the same but it just gets I don't know. it gets a little different you know. but that's okay just I think some of it.

sometimes is a level of Correction and. stuff like that but yeah when money gets. involved in creativity then what happens. it impacts why you're being creative. sometimes and that's the scary part yeah. I mean because so many of us are. creative because we love it and there's. other reasons but yet once money starts. playing you know and again not that. money is bad money not great money is. really not in favor I'm going to keep. you warm in the winter and cool in the. summer that's what they say but but yeah. you're on the audience but that struggle.

there's some value there's some of it. you just have so many more paints in. your and you're sure when Williams when. you got that struggle bellman you know. when you have some when you can find. that motivation but like you're saying. like that balance you know yeah we're. gonna work on keeping the balance and. dr. Kaufman we'd love to have you bad. that I would love to come back awesome. thank you so much for coming you bet. thank you for having me yeah. [Music].

but when I reach that round I'll share. this piece of my my I can feel it enough. thought it's gonna take. a little town for me to set that parking. brake and let myself. [Music].

[Music]. [Music].