Anger Professor Dr. Ryan Martin | This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von #543

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on sale starts Monday November 11th at. 10:00 a.m. local time we also have a few. tickets remaining uh for Champagne. Illinois on November 15th and uh happy. early holidays to everyone remember. don't buy through a secondary website uh. go through our website so you're not. getting those um heightened ticket. prices and uh thank you so much for your. support and we do have new merch items. back by popular demand The Hitter.

hunting club collection we've also got. the hitter Bait and Tackle teas those. are new baby if you like to rod and reel. them baby get all these in more theovon. store.com the only place to get our. merch today's guest is an expert in the. world of anger uh he's an author he's a. researcher he's a Dean at the College of. Arts Humanities and social sciences at. the University of Wisconsin Green Bay uh.

we covered a lot of ground and he has. some insightful thoughts uh just talking. about anger in general and then just. things that um spaces I've had trouble. with anger in I'm very grateful today to. have spent time with Dr Ryan. Martin and I will find a song I will s. [Applause].

I think the thing I was really I thought. was cool is just the the variety of. guests you've had on over the years I. mean it was like it was impressive it's. it's a cool thanks man yeah it was a a. cool group yeah I mean there's been some. real smart people some real perverts. that have come on here some real creeps. we've had all kinds yeah well good well. I hope I'm I hope I fall in that first. category I hope I'm not one of the. perverts of the Creeps yeah TBD brother. we'll see where we'll see where we end. Dr Ryan Martin is here um from you're a.

professor at University of Wisconsin. Green Bay yep right that is right and um. yeah and we wanted to talk with you. today about anger because that's the. world you work in right anger yep okay. exactly yeah so so I've been uh I've. been working at the University for the. last 19 years um I've been teaching. psychology for 18 of those years I. actually just started a year ago as the. dean of uh Arts Humanities and social. sciences um but most of that time I've. been researching and actually even. before that I was researching anger uh.

and teaching and writing about anger and. what made you get into it did you have. like some some things when you was a. child that got you really angry yeah. yeah some of it was that some of it you. know there's this long story about my. family and and what was called The. Martin temper right and referred to. mostly the men in my family Who had who. were like quick to quick to get mad oh. yeah um starting with my dad um but but. not ending with him right and so both my. brothers me um and you know so it was. something I was just it's interesting.

because I think people assume um you. know anger is um uh you know that that. it was like hostile or uncomfortable or. that we didn't love each other profal. wrestling or something yes exactly but. it wasn't that it was like it was a. really loving home like I I get along. great with my siblings we've got really. great relationships um all of us have. have chilled out quite a bit since then. um but so it's just something I I grew. up with and when I theme yeah and and. when I went to college decided I was.

interested in studying it more and then. uh went to grad school and and started. working with a professor who who studied. it um his name is Dr Eric Doan and and. he was researching anger and it just. became something I was really passionate. about and really interested in so yeah. it seems like it was kind of a family. affair then kind of and so obviously. that's uh maybe that's just a sign out. of the gate that it's something for you. to to um to like reflect on and learn. about you know um so when people like. cuz get angry all the time I'm pretty.

angry a lot even though maybe sometimes. I don't seem like it but when people say. anger like what do they mean like what. like I know it's so basic but like what. is anger yep yeah and so I think what. you just said is really really important. like you know you said I'm angry a lot. of the time but people don't realize it. and I think that's because um something. I think you realize that a lot of people. don't is that anger is just the feeling. it's just the emotion we can express. that emotion that emotion in a gajillion. different ways and some people Express.

that anger by yelling and screaming some. people Express that anger by suppressing. it some people like me they they just do. a relatively good job of controlling it. of using it to problem solve and so on. to answer your question what is it it's. it's the emotional desire to lash out. and it's associated with having been. wronged um having been treated unfairly. or having um had your goals blocked like. I want to do something and uh. something's interfering with me trying.

to get that thing done right so it's why. it's why road rage is so common it's. because by definition you're on your way. somewhere stuff's getting in your way. and you start to get mad about it yeah. what what are your triggers like what. when you say you get angry all the time. what are some of the things that if I. can ask yeah no thanks for asking Ryan I. um for me I've been noticing recently A. lot of it is unrealistic expectations so. I have a lot of just generally. unrealistic expectations that people. should know how to do things the way I. would like them to be done.

got it um so that's that out of the gate. has been a big one for me would you. describe yourself as um like kind of. type A like do you know what that means. like type A personality if you like. blood or whatever no no no um like a. like it's a personality type of being. competitive um really aggressive a lot. of successful people are type A I'm Type. A right and even um it's like I'm really. competitive I'm really aggressive I'm. really um type A let me see right here. we have it our personality is defined by. traits like ambition drive and.

competitiveness which can lead to a high. level of success but type A. personalities can also be impatient. hostile and even have trouble relaxing. um yeah I wouldn't go to hostile I don't. get there but I can get like yeah very. impatient um have trouble relaxing dude. I'll notice I will be urinating right. and in the middle of urinating I will. flush the. toilet just because I don't want to I. want to get it off my checklist yeah. it's like it's already done you got a.

to-do list right yeah right so it's. still weird cuz I'll then still urinate. into the toilet but it's like I've. already it's like but so impatience yeah. is definitely a big one for me you got. to learn to time that just right so that. it's like just as you're finishing it's. going down yeah yeah I'm sure that's how. I started but then after a while it was. like well why do I you know but but I. noticed that about myself like that's a. real thing that I noticed that's like um. that for me was like wow I have a lot of. impatience you know yeah one I the. reason I ask is cuz what you said about. like setting unrealistic EXP. expectations is that's really common for.

people who are kind of type a right who. have these high this competitive trait. is that they think hey the the people. should I I want to accomplish a lot and. me accomplishing a lot relies on other. people to get their stuff done and and. taken care of and if they don't if they. let me down that slows me down and I. don't like it right and so it's it's um. this is something I I actually deal with. relatively often too I get an idea in my. head that idea is reliant on other.

people doing their job in a particular. way and I think to myself they should be. able to get that done by whatever day. right and then they don't you know and. it in and In fairness to them it's. because they've got other stuff they're. doing right I mean yeah totally yeah it. makes sense that they don't or that. things don't go a certain way it's just. like in certain moments it's tough for. me you know um it's tough for me to. notice that it's like that's not what. I'm thinking um but that for sure is a. big trigger for me I notice is. unrealistic.

expectations um so and I'm sure I'm not. the only person that deals with this. type of thing uh yeah so why why do. people get mad like or get angry in in. any given moment kind of like is it is. there a real science behind it yep and. this is the stuff I study so so why. people get angry in a a particular. moment is um usually a Confluence of. like three things right there so so. there's a trigger there's the thing that. happened right and and I I tend to I. encourage people to be really specific. about what that thing is right so uh.

driving down the street um yellow light. in front of you you think you can make. it car in front of you stops though. right so now you got to stop um so. that's the trigger right then there is. your mood at the time of that trigger so. are you stressed are you fatigued are. you um already angry about something are. you anxious whatever are you are you too. warm or too cold physically. uncomfortable hungry all those things. make it more likely that you're going to. respond with with anger in that moment.

and then there's um there's how you. interpret that behavior and this is. where those expectations come in right. so do I interpret this person as do I. look at this and say oh this is going to. ruin my day I'm now I'm going to be late. to work I'm not going to get done what I. need to get done do you interpret it as. oh that idiot why did they slow down. right and so do you label them in that. sort of negative way you totally could. have made that man yeah um you know or. do you interpret it has um hey it's.

going to Slow Me Down 2 minutes I'll. still get to work everything's going to. be okay right that third one sounds like. the healthiest one yep but I'll even go. sometimes like this bastard y left his. house just to [ __ ] strand me here yep. he's just here to ruin my life like yeah. or yeah there a part of my brain will. even go there you know um we we have. these thoughts there's like there a. couple specific types of thoughts that. we have when we're faced with that kind. of provocation and one of them is what. you just described it's it's this.

inflammatory labeling right so I label. this guy as a bastard as an [ __ ] as a. loser whatever right another one is um. that demandingness that we talked about. it's like you know God why can't they. just do the job the way they're supposed. to whatever um you know that what we. call like making these dictatorial. demands like things need to be done the. way I want them when when I want them. there's uh what we call overgeneralizing. so it's uh I don't know if you ever say. like God this always happens to me you.

know where you label things in that sort. of super exaggerated way um there's. catastrophizing which is when you blow. things out of proportion you say this is. going to ruin my day my week my month my. year right this is the my career is over. now right this ruins everything. Christmas is done yep exactly yep um and. then there's uh the last one is what we. call uh misattributing causation but. it's where you you just blame the the. wrong people for things you know you you.

you say or you decide they did it on. purpose right what you were saying. before about like this guy's just doing. this to [ __ ] with me right that's you're. you're making assumptions about now I. know you're not really making those. assumptions but you're making. assumptions about why they did a thing. right yeah um and and blown it out so. all those things come together into like. this recipe for why you get mad in a. particular moment and then um even. separate from that is what we do when. we're mad right and so for me um every.

now and then I'll like just have a. moment where I'll like yell not at. someone but just sort of at the heavens. um I might you know sometimes P my fist. on the table or something like that when. I'm when I'm really mad a lot of times. though I like I I'll I'll sort of simmer. inside a little bit I'll get frustrated. I'll I'll sort of take a we do this. thing in my office we've done it for a. long time where when we're feeling. frustrated we'll say okay let's let's. start with an unproductive response. meaning let's just take a minute to vent.

for a second about how we hate this. right we'll take like 2 minutes and then. we'll stop and'll say okay now let's. problem solve what what do we need to do. right how do we how do we work through. this right let some of the pressure off. yep yeah exactly um when it comes to. anger um are there different types so. like we kind of have looked at like a. situation that and triggers of of and. then you end up angry right right are. there different types of anger like are. there. yeah I mean I think anger can come from.

a lot of different places and people can. tend to express it in lots of different. ways I I tend to think of anger as. existing on like a Continuum meaning um. you know on one end you've got mild. frustration like hey I'm leaving the. house can't find my keys right it's it's. irritating I misplay something it's a. bummer yeah my shoes don't fit that good. right stuff like that and then there's. more intense frustration that that comes. from. like hey I'm now I'm really starting to.

run late this dude that got in my way on. the road or whatever right more intense. all the way up to like extreme anger of. I. um you know when you see a a politician. do something that you just hate or when. when you know your your spouse treats. you badly or when your parents treat you. badly or whatever a friend takes. advantage of you like the real extreme. cruel terrible things right and it. exists and so it's everything from like. frustration to just being livid with.

rage um that that whole spectrum of so. there's just kind of a spectrum of anger. it's like there small amounts there's. larger there's things that are really. intense um I guess in my next thought. like cuz anger gives me a sense. sometimes it it like an illusionary. sense that I have some control over. what's going on yeah that's but it but. at the same time I feel out of control. like um because anger sometimes makes. want to take an action so that makes me.

feel like I'm in control y but then like. I'll get so like just sometimes just. blinded by being angry that it's like I. know I'm out of control you know yeah. this is one of the things that so I. don't know if you've ever had this. experience but have you ever been so. angry that you started to cry is that. something you can think of um yeah not. as an adult but as a child yeah okay. interesting I've been sad as so but that. I've cried but not anger that I've cried. so there are some people and I. discovered this on social media like. there are a lot of people who sometimes.

when they get really angry they'll. they'll start to cry like that's their. sort of go-to expression and the. interesting thing is the people I've. talked to hate this about themselves. they they they they will tell me I can't. stand it it drives me crazy because I'm. really mad and instead of like I just. start I start to cry and I think a big. part of what's going on there is a a. pretty intense feeling of of. helplessness it's like not only am I. being treated badly not only am I being.

treated un unfairly and having my goals. blocked but there's nothing I can do. about it I'm just stuck yeah um and that. hurts you know and it and it it it. doesn't feel good and it feels scary and. so I think for a lot of for a lot of. people that hopelessness and. helplessness lands them in a place where. they just start to tear up like it sort. of dovetails with sadness in this very. real way um whereas um for people like. me when I'm feeling particularly sort of.

helpless or hopeless and angry I tend to. focus on okay so where are the places. where I can make a difference where are. the places where I can take a little bit. of power back right and try and and. solve this problem can I solve the whole. big problem maybe not but maybe I can. make a dent you know and do what I can. do and then and that at least gives me. some some power to like let things go. yeah cuz that's the biggest thing is the. anger feels like it has to be let go mhm.

that's the thing about anger like other. feeling like you know anger it feels. like you have to you know like happy. I've never been so happy I then like. went and dressed up like a clown and ran. out into the street you know yeah but. but I've been so angry that I'll I will. damn I will kick a clown if it comes. near me you know like so I you know but. you know there's there's anger is the. one that feels like it has to get out of. your body yeah you know it's got that. Gremlin it just literally feels like it. needs to leave you somehow well it's.

because it that's a really interesting. thought and I think it's because I think. you're right anger tends to. linger in ways that other emotions don't. necessarily linger yeah dude and loers. yeah and it's interesting because. because Joy or happiness or excitement. like that that tends to dissipate. relatively quickly more more quickly. than I think people realize right those. feelings don't last yeah um well the. halflife on Joy it's not very long. but anger you can still like you'll go.

get in your car you'll drive somewhere. you'll start chewing the bottom of your. like I didn't even know somehow started. chewing on my own teeth one time I was. like what is even you know sometimes you. can get so angry that you turn you turn. into a chew toy for yourself almost yeah. you know like I've just gotten so. agitated um yeah what happens to anger. if if we don't process it and then how. can you process it like like what's a. legitimate way to process it that's. realistic can we start with some of the. illegitimate ways okay yeah here and I.

say that because that's good because it. connects to something you just said. which is um you know wanting because. people want it out of their body right. and it feels like and so we've been. literally for thousands of years people. have been talking about catharsis as a. way of of ridding our body of anger and. and thinking our of ourselves almost. like pressure cookers like if we don't. if we don't open up the valve and. release this anger we'll blow up right. and so that's where a lot of these.

approaches like if you've ever heard of. a rage room or like you know people. punching a punching bag or or hitting. the gym or things like that that's where. those approaches come from is this idea. that we got to we got to let that out. and now here's the here's the thing and. and people are going to throw rocks when. I say this but all of the research that. we have on catharsis tells us it doesn't. work it does like rage actions of. getting it out physically that it. doesn't work it doesn't it feels good at. the time time and so people think well.

because it feels good it must be good. for me it must help but what we find is. is two things first over time the people. who use that as their mechanism stay. angry and and get angrier over time we. also find that like right after like. moments after they they did the study. and this this is like 50 years old right. so we've known for a long time they did. the study where they provoked people in. the lab then they took half of them and. they put him on a on a bicycle and said.

just ride the bike as fast as you can. right exercise the other the other half. had to do this really ridiculous task. where they were like threading coins. with a needle or something like that. something boring and and tedious and. then afterwards they they assessed to. see how angry and aggressive they were. and the people who worked it out on the. bike were way more aggressive than the. people who who you know did the other. task because that exercise it it doesn't. do it it it keeps um it keeps the angry.

thoughts at the surface it keeps the uh. the intensity going keeps your blood. pressure going what you need to do when. you're angry is to actually find ways to. calm down and relax you need to take. deep breaths uh stuff like that rage. rooms don't do that um hit a punching. bag doesn't do that wow and I guess you. feel like it does because again anger is. that act it's that I mean it almost. makes you act it's like you know people. will do things in a fit of anger in a.

fit of rage it's like it it's like this. energy that's it's almost like it's. always leaving a diving board you know. so to get that to that even it almost. feels like inertia or whatever so to get. it to stop I think is you know some of. is kind of harrowing I feel like um ra. rooms invite people to engage with their. anger but do they actually work this is. a study that came out I can't see who. wrote it Marcus bidd I don't know Marcus. R rooms um they just had one for women.

that they opened up I saw this yeah it's. bring that up rooms for women I think. it's is it a raid room or do they take. them out into the woods if they're. taking them into the woods I'm not. getting involved in it you know what I'm. saying like I look that's it I'll let. look I'll let as many lady as they want. just go ham inside of a Bed Bath and. Body work or whatever with a shovel I'll. join them but I but if we I don't think. we need to like bring anybody into the. woods yeah that's probably not great uh.

can you see what's going on here though. I just want to uh I think it was like a. New York Times article or something this. was an article about rage women rage. getting it out yep because sometimes my. rage it will almost feels like it blinds. me right you know it's like it is so. overcoming because if you don't Pro yeah. so if so if somebody doesn't process I. mean I think like probably truly the the. worst thing people can do is that. cathartic expression is like like. breaking stuff exercising those are.

probably the the bad ways right and I. guess there's a it just feels like that. because physically you're doing. something y like yeah obviously I'm. taking an action this is an actual. physical action then it feels like oh. that should be helpful and and it is. what your body wants to do right because. I mean if if we Define anger as the. emotional desire to lash out well then. your body wants to lash out and so if. you give it that you know it's going to. feel good that doesn't again that. doesn't make it good for you we could. talk about this with other I mean you.

know I guess some other like bad ways to. deal with your anger but these are. obvious to people is like doing drugs. right overeating you know um just. calling a friend and screaming at them. like like those things are are are bad. for you they're mean um do they do they. make you feel better sometimes in the. moment they do for people right but that. doesn't make it good for them but I. think it feels like um doing one of. those things is healthier than doing. something physically dangerous yes yep I.

think so yeah you know I I think you're. you're right although I mean longterm. those things can be physically dangerous. too for sure but but yeah um right yeah. in the moment yep yeah yeah and that's. the that's the worry actually is that so. what we find is that people who use like. if if their approach to dealing with. anger is I'm going to go punch this. pillow you know or or I'm going to go. punch this punching bag or I'm going to. tear foone books in half or whatever. yeah um what we find is that becomes.

it's it's like you know I have I used to. have a soccer coach who would say. practice makes permanent right and it's. like the way you practice something is. how you'll do things in life and if you. practice your anger that way well then. someday when you're mad you're not going. to control yourself and you're going to. you're going to hit someone you're going. to you know you're going to punch. someone you're going to go after them. and so it it ends up having those kinds. of long-term harmful uh. consequences damn dude. God I just people don't like to hear.

this by the way when I when I talk about. this on and just a couple weeks ago I. talk about this on on Instagram and wow. I mean new research comes out 150 plus. studies it's a an article by a guy named. Dr Brad Bushman who's a huge monster. anger researcher and aggression. researcher in the field um and he does. this study and he looks at 154 studies. over time approximately and finds that. across all these studies. what does work is when you find ways to.

to relax to decrease arousal in the. moment right grounding deep breaths all. that stuff what doesn't work is when you. um uh when you you you raise arousal. right you break stuff of course I I. share this on Instagram nobody wants to. hear that nobody wants to hear that yeah. well I think arouse is a great term too. to use because that's what's going on. right you are at a heighten state of. arous. and it feels like dangerous arousal um.

but even then I could see maybe if. you're going to out or get it out that. way you're keeping the arousal at a high. level because you're keeping like um at. least something inside of you were raed. um every now and then someone reaches. out to me and asks if I'll um open a. rage room no if I'll support theirs like. if I'll go and like do promote their. their rage room and I have to tell them. no like you obviously haven't paid. attention to what I have to. say um these place took abandoned. warehouses and vacant offices and turned.

them into businesses made for organized. chaos some were also marketed as an. alternative to anger management yeah the. the one in my town has uh makes itself. available for gender reveals oh I don't. know what what that looks like like what. see that maybe I'm trying to think if. you beat a cushion hard enough like you. know a couple twins pop out of it or. something I don't know that's fill up a. printer with either blue or pink toner. oh there you go you trash it till it. spills all over yeah um yeah I don't.

know if that would be I wonder if the. raid room a lot of them I've seen well a. lot of rooms I noticed this happened too. there was a business like uh de. Evolution um where a lot of Escape rooms. went under okay and then they turned. into rage rooms oh interesting and then. they just went out of business. completely and just turned into. one-bedroom apartment to have like a. trap door in them or whatever um dude I. remember we there used to be a place in.

LA Downtown they'd have a couple it was. like a Vietnamese establishment and you. would put on like a dog bite suit in. these guys would literally beat the. smack out of you for like 80 bucks for. 15 or 20 minutes wow my brother and I. used to play that game when we were kids. actually we we we really would we we. would we play this game where we would. pile up a bunch of like we we had we. were a sports family right so we had. like all sorts of gear we'd pile all. this gear in the middle of the room and. we draft items like we'd each take a. thing and then you'd put it on and we we. had these big plastic Tinker Toys and we.

just beat the crap out of each other. yeah so it was great May yeah he's a lot. older than me though so I usually lost. well it sounds like he was very it seems. very unfair that he would do that if he. was a lot older like how old like 12. years older just five oh that's kind of. fair even that's getting a little. outside of the range of able to beat my. brother age yeah agreed you should tell. him that we'll let him know yeah yeah. here's one right here the rage room. there we go oh somebody hit a. uh oh. maybe they did hit an ink toner yeah a.

toner cartridge oh there something that. had a dangerous gas in it they said. nerve gas geez yep that's what you do. gota be careful yeah you got to be. careful yeah ra I guess it's I don't. know if I've ever even been to one I. don't know if it was something that. really excited me um so what would be. healthy ways to process anger I mean. some of them seem kind of obvious y they. don't seem that much fun right yeah no. that's true you know I think there's. there's two ways of thinking about this. like the first way is to think about.

okay when I am angry what do I do to. deal with that anger right and that's. where that study I was just telling you. about 154 articles that essentially find. you got to you got to find ways to. deescalate right so what are what are. those different mechanisms and there are. different ones for different people but. it's it's the the deep breathing it's. mindful walking um it is so you go for a. walk and you just think about your. thoughts and try and relax you think. about nature you think about whatever's. going on cool study just came out by the.

way that found that um college students. who go for walks um versus college. students who go for walks and bird watch. that the bird watching is actually. better for their mental health than just. going for walks really and and it's kind. of peeping timeing on nature I feel like. I mean true yeah no you're right it's. it's boyis it's like look this bird's. just trying to live its life I know. about that yeah look at this bird just. feeding his children you're sitting. there yeah goog in the window it's kind.

of crazy but get out of that Bird's. business but I think what's happening is. is that the it forces people to get out. of their head right it like and so it. doesn't have to be Birds if you want to. if you want to look at something else if. you feel more comfortable leaving those. birds be you can look at you can just be. like I'm going to identify leaves okay. like yeah I'm just going to absorb. something out here yeah and it's because. then you're it gets you out of your head. to look at the thing and focus on the. thing thing and so like those kinds of.

deescalation approaches are are some of. the best things to do the truth is. though there's there's like infinite. things you can do with your anger and so. sometimes you know you can you can. Channel it into problem solving you can. say I'm because ultimately what what. anger gives you is energy right I mean. it it it it gives you energy to to um. confront the Injustice and so you know. if if you experience something that is. truly unfair and you want to do. something about it well there's lots of. things you can do right you can you can.

protest you can write letters to the. editor you can donate money you can you. can you know join all these causes to. try and solve those problems yeah that's. a really good healthy way to to deal. with your anger yeah you can hire one of. those planes to write something in the. sky exactly yeah exactly stop smoking. love Mom it says on it yeah nice I know. my mom wanted me to stop is that how she. got you to stop she runs a plane and. nice she did one year pretty sweet ever. kind of crazy that's. yeah but yeah put so you can put your.

anger into something yep is that legit. is that a real thing you can do like put. that in well I guess you already have. are activated MH yeah you know I and. this is the example I I use I came home. so when my kids were young uh you know. when you're when your kids are young. like the only thing in the world you. want is a little bit of time to yourself. right at the house and so I came home. from from work one day and I think I I. knew in my head I had like 20 minutes. before everybody else got home that I. was just alone right right and I thought. I'm just I'm going to live my best life.

for 20 minutes you know and and then uh. I I checked the mail and there was like. a flyer in there that's your best life I. feel you Dude guys have the worst best. Liv it's like I'm gonna live it off dude. and I'll just eat like a I'll just like. find an old can of peaches or something. and open them and just try one just like. a pudding cup like here we go your wife. comes you're like oh she's like this is. so sad yeah this is for 20 minutes I had. this pudding cup but I'm going to check. this mail while everybody's just letting.

me be I feel you bro exactly we're. idiots so I I checked the mail and uh. there was like a flyer in there for some. political candidate who was just saying. like nasty stuff about this I got so mad. so I spent that 20 minutes I I sent an. email to the guy I didn't like saying. that was BS what's wrong with you I sent. another email to the guy I did like and. said like hey thanks and then I donated. money to the guy I I I was supporting. and so by the time I was done family's. home you know and but like that's what.

like I was exhausted when I came home. but anger gave me the energy to do. something like now did I solve all the. world's problems no but but like I did. something and it felt better afterwards. to do that right and something that's. more productive than just like yeah um. yeah just like getting some spray paint. and just tagging up a yeah writing. profaning on a wall or doing I'm trying. to think of or anything anything that. could be negative right so yeah because. it was the male that made you negative. so then you're like what am I going to. do with it now um but those are those.

are like safe ways nobody's going to get. hurt right exactly yep is pornography. causing a problem in your life do you. find yourself watching porno for longer. periods of time and having trouble. stopping is porn affecting your. relationship or dating life well you're. certainly not alone watching pornography. has become so commonplace today and all. often times men use porn to numb the.

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coaching.com or email them at admin at. Valor recovery. coaching.com thank you so is when anger. shows up in us what is it a warning us. of yeah I mean it's it's one of it so. this is true of all emotions that when. we um uh when we feel them it's our one. of our brains ways of like providing. information right so when you're scared.

that's your brain's one of your brain's. ways of of saying hey there's a there's. a threat right there's danger around. when you're sad it means you've lost. something and it's your brain's way of. telling you that anger is one of your. brain's ways of telling you that. someone's treating you badly that you've. experienced this Injustice and that that. you got to do something about it and. then when your fight ORF flight system. kicks in that's your brain's way of. saying um like giving you the energy to. to deal with that and so one of the best. ways to to handle anger is to channel.

that energy into solving whatever that. problem is right something positive yeah. it's yeah I feel like but if you some of. it could go CU what if you tell someone. like yeah you should get into quilting. or doing something that's prog you know. and then they just quilt like a you know. advertisement for saw two or whatever. because that's how angry they are you. know like that would be my biggest but I. guess that would be at least a nice. piece of art then they could sell yeah. um so yeah I guess that does kind of. make sense I mean CH I mean so I love.

the the saw two quilt idea uh makes me. wonder if that exists but uh so probably. yeah um but we should uh but I mean. channeling your anger into art is a is a. thing people do right I mean that's a a. good healthy way I mean poetry other. forms of writing art it's so hard though. oh yeah it's so hard when I close my car. door and I'm like. to then want to draw something right.

unless I just write how I feel and just. show it D like but it's so hard like I. guess that's the thing it's like how do. you get over that like how do you get. over like convert one moment into. another so that you can cuz that's. really the key huh yep well and I think. this is like what it what it takes to be. and ultimately like what I want and why. I'm on social media and why why I write. things is because I want people to have. sort of a healthier relationship with.

their emotions and sometimes what that. takes is like a deescalation in the. moment so that you can still hang on to. the at least the thoughts of anger in a. way that is healthy that allows you to. to channel them into something positive. right because the truth is like even. those emails that I was talking about I. couldn't write those if I was in such a. fit of rage that I wasn't making any. sense right you've got to come down a. little bit yeah even to get correct. punctuation you have to be almost like. at a four right at a nine it's all caps.

it is dangerous emojis that you can get. off you have a VPN th this is one of the. the things that I think actually has. made electronic communication kind of. dangerous for people I I used to have a. a professor who when I was in college. who said hey when when you get an exam. back I don't want you to come talk to me. about it for 24 hours so I just want you. to calm like just take some time to. think about it relax your your Ting too. strongly in that first 24 hours take.

some time but now and that was easier to. do back then because you know you. weren't going to see him for a couple. days anyways you didn't have access to. them the way you do now via email or or. whatever now uh you know I think when. people get mad it's so easy to fire off. a quick response to fire off an email to. fire off a tweet or a text or whatever. um that it people can do things when. they're feeling most enraged or when. they're feeling most upset yeah yeah and. then it's really made it almost tougher. in person because you don't have like.

when you're talking to somebody you. can't just like set them down for two or. three minutes while you think about your. answer and pee again or whatever you do. yeah um or get you a little you know get. you a little dessert or something but um. yeah that it's almost gets like we want. to communicate Less in person in a way. because online communication is kind of. easier yeah I think it is I mean I think. I think it is for a couple reasons one. is you do it is in some good ways right.

you have more time to think about what. you want to say and that's a probably a. good thing but it's also easier in some. bad ways and that you don't really like. right now you and I are talking to each. other and everything I'm seeing I can. see how you're responding to it in your. face right but if you and I were. communicating over text I have no idea. how what I'm saying is impacting you and. so it's easier for me it might be easier. in that context to say something cruel. or or hurtful or um hopeful even yeah.

you know because I don't have I'm not. confronted with what it did to you when. when you got the message so I wonder. what that does to us as people over time. right when they're because it used to be. like if you wanted. to well I guess you could write a letter. mhm. but but it used yeah you had to there. was it used to be probably more often. you had to do face to face right more. often yep and so you had to get the real. re actions you had to get the real. feelings of what was going.

on whereas if you can just message it. it's still scary but it's not it doesn't. it must affect us differently. emotionally over time I wonder if that's. valuable or not is this making any sense. yeah no absolutely I mean I think I mean. I think what happens is a couple things. one it's it's we get out of practice. right I mean you get out of practice. interacting with people and and it it. becomes really easy to. forget how what you're saying is is. impacting them in a very real and. meaningful way and how you may have hurt.

their feelings or or whatever oh yeah. yeah what about some other options for. like the healthy processing of anger. well so yeah that's one of the things we. didn't get to is is um you can think. about like what we've been talking about. is how you handle your anger once you're. feeling it what we haven't talked about. yet is how you can kind of create a life. where you are um more where where you're. managing it better in advance right. meaning um yeah that's what I need yeah. so you know if if you think about that.

model I described before right you've. got your your trigger you've got your. mood at the time of the trigger and. you've got your interpretation well you. can intervene in any of those places. right so you can like we don't have. control of every trigger we experience. but there are some we invite into our. lives right there either on purpose or. on accident Tiffany or whoever you're. thinking about or anybody specific it. could be sure I mean even even things. like it the the example I always use is. like so I I used to love scary movies.

when I was grown up I loved them at a. certain point I realized you know what. these are having a pretty negative. effect on me right I'm staying up too. late afterwards I'm getting scared. whatever so I started watching them less. often right that's we can do that with. provocations we can say I'm not going to. watch the news as often as I used to I'm. not going to watch sports as often as I. used to because it's getting to me in. ways that aren't good for me um we can. even say you know I'm going to change my. commute up so that I don't find myself. in traffic as often as I I once did I.

don't know if that's possible in. Nashville but right but even if it's. longer it's like I'm still going to. change it up so I'm just not because the. traffic that's a good point because. sometimes though we will recognize the. things that agitate us and still. continue to do them yep what is that. called yeah I don't know if that has a. name actually but um but you know what. I'm talking about yeah no I mean when. people continue to sort of walk into. those those situations that that leave. them feeling frustrated yeah it's like. they you want the agitation like you.

know it's going to bother you so then. you know you're going to be able to be. angry your anger almost becomes an. addiction in a way well and the the. worst thing that can happen there. sometimes is sometimes we so anticipate. that a situation is going to go poorly. that we actually bring it out of that. situation like we appro you know we're. going to Thanksgiving dinner and we know. our uncle is going to be racist or. whatever and so and so we go there and. we end up sort of first of all we're. we're hostile to them in advance in a.

way that it actually brings out their. hostility back to us and then also we we. sort of unintentionally like goat them. into things and we bring we even pass. the black beans to them and then lose it. on them for no reason or something you. know like and they didn't do any it's. just like we're just waiting in our head. you know or we'll ask for the brown rice. and they'll look at us a certain way and. they just yep they can't hand yeah it's. like and then it's almost like we yeah. it's like so a lot of times you set. things up you know how they're going to. be God that's such an instance man what.

do you do in that instance cuz that's a. huge one I think well I think it's it's. about what I what I like to call like. proactive emotion management right so. it's it's saying okay I'm anticipating. that this situation is going to go badly. what are some things that I can do now. to prevent it from going the way I think. it could go right and so that might be. hey let's let's give people the benefit. of the doubt right that might be going. into the situation and saying um you. know let's let's not assume that they're.

going to do and say the worst thing. let's go into that situation um maybe I. I minimize my contact with them yeah. it's Thanksgiving but I don't have to be. in the same room with this person the. entire night and I can I can minimize. how often I talk to them maybe it's you. and your your partner who you're at the. event with you have like a like a safe. word right when you're getting. frustrated that that some some signal. that you can do to send them a message. saying like hey get me out of this right. I mean there's there's all these things. we can do it's just we have to be. thoughtful about it in advance and I.

think a lot of times we're not. thoughtful about it yeah yeah I'll. struggle I know sometimes like if I know. like sometimes I can cut myself off and. i' be like hey go introduce yourself in. the beginning instead of keeping an air. where it's like you have something in. your head y cuz I'm in I I'm in recovery. and so I'll have a lot of things like. I'll build a world in my head that's not. really going on in the world around me. yep and so uh so sometimes some of those. things I can cut off like hey go go say. hey how's things going that way you've.

already created the first space of. communication it's been cool. everything's good then if they do say. say something sometimes that if you're. expecting somebody to say a certain. thing it doesn't really land on you the. same way y um a lot of times for me it. is I I'll keep myself away from people. if I know I'm agitated so some so that's. one of the things I think you said of. just being able to prepare a little bit. but then it's like sometimes it's like. that isolation Builds on my own. agitation because I'm always just kind. of in my own world process and stuff.

yeah no that's really interesting that. like you know we often do sort of create. this world that that may or may not be. realistic and we assume um you know. people are going to be a certain way. they're going to do a certain thing or. they're thinking like we do a lot of. mind reading you know and we assume. people think the way we think they think. and um and then yeah it's crazy isn't it. yeah and what you just said about going. up in introducing yourself or saying hi. or whatever that's a that's really.

interesting because what it does is it. it it gives you the opportunity to. realize that what you're thinking is. inaccurate yeah it's funny you say that. because yeah one one thing we have. learned a lot in recovery is just like. um not believe in our brain yeah that. our perception of things is off yep you. know um and mean that's really important. and it's like you want to trust yourself. but you also have to leave some room to. say you know what hey my understanding. of the situation could be wrong right. and and when I meet people um I've got. to I've got to let them I mean yeah I.

can go in and I can be cautious right. that's one thing but I shouldn't assume. that my my understanding of them is a. th% accurate yeah yeah and the more I. isolate and stuff the more that bad. perception builds yep that's what's. fascinating to me it's like it grows its. own muscles yeah and that is I think if. there's a thing that I find sort of most. dangerous or worrisome about modern day. America or the world is the degree to. which we are isolating ourselves.

especially from people that we might. disagree with and the degree to which. we're not having like real conversations. with people um that where we can get an. opportunity to to learn how they think. right we we make assumptions about what. other people are doing and saying and. those and then we we react to those. assumptions more than we react to what's. actually happening yeah it is. interesting how much we've become kind. of. puppet by like I don't know if I just.

want to say mainstream media but by. um bigger stories maybe that we didn't. write ourselves kind of yeah you know. well and you know when you when you. think about what like the social media. algorithms do and how we end up seeing. the content that we agree with more. regularly we interact with people who. think like us more regularly right we we. just are seeing the we're connected I. put that sort of in quotes but connected. to more people than ever before but not.

really because one we're only seeing a. very specific sliver of of their lives. and we're um not having this the we're. we're not necessarily engaging with. people who are different from us very. regularly I mean do you guys notice that. we're any angrier now than we were in. the past yeah this this is I wish we. could go back in time and like have a. some sort of thermometer right that. could measure anger over time because.

this is the question that I think. everybody wants to know the answer to Is. are we angrier now than we used to be. and in so many ways it it sure seems. like we are right because we see tons of. examples of it we see so much rage um. the the I think the parts that we don't. have answers to is one is is a lot of. that rage just more visible now than it. used to be right are we seeing it more. now because of social media right so we. get we more stuff captured on video than. we ever did um and that might be what's.

happening that those things were. happening before we just didn't know um. it could also be um you know that that. particular expression Styles have become. normalized right so yelling screaming. those things are become like hostility. those things are becoming more common. yeah and so maybe that anger was there. but but those outward expressions are. much more common now I think there is. some some reason to think we're angrier. now than we used to be I mean I mean I.

think like we're social the stuff we. just were saying about social media is. bringing out the illusion I think there. was used to be more of I think like. tradition we had it felt like there was. more of a sense of togetherness maybe um. I wonder if those things left people. feeling more complete or safer in their. country I I do start to notice that. they're start to feel a little bit of. like what could happen in 15 years as.

opposed to that was never a thought when. I was a kid it was always like I feel. like we're going to be okay here right. um so I wonder if some of that like just. subconsciously starts to boil inside of. you I I absolutely think so I mean I. think you know one of the things we're. dealing with and I think a lot of this. is post-pandemic but not just. post-pandemic is you know so anger dovet. Tales pretty closely with anxiety right. um that that these two emotions are. pretty similar they actually feel pretty. similar.

physiologically um so there's a there's. a lot of overlap there and I I think. it's fair to say that Americans are U. and probably worldwide people are more. anxious now about the future than they. have been for a very long time right and. that anxiety it it comes from a place of. uncertainty about um you know safety. and Financial Security and all all these. things even having jobs I mean they say. like AI is going to every day hear AI is. going to take your job you know and the.

guy's like I'm unemployed and they're. like it'll take that job like Jesus I. can't even be unemployed anymore but I. think there is a little bit of fear even. somebody who's just sitting on their. couch watching you know eating Fritos. and just. watching uh you know uh TV shows all day. that they're even that job is going to. be they're going to be like well I'm. going to lose this right yeah I mean I. think that there is this all of this. uncertainty is leading to people and. because I think some ways it part of. what happens is it leads to some. competitiveness it leads to like hey.

look the pie is getting smaller that we. all share and I'm worried that I'm not. going to have enough right and I'm not. going to be able to make ends meet and. all of that leads to you know. frustration with your your fellow humans. right oh yeah cuz your perspective is. suddenly I've got to take care of myself. instead of like we have to take care of. each other exactly and that gets a. little creepy um exactly what do we do. with pervas anger at society and. ideology situation out of control uh I.

think that's another thing that happened. during uh during the pandemic is that I. think um people I think a lot of people. in in the United States and probably. globally really started to feel like. they couldn't trust each other yeah and. and I think that happened in lots of. ways right it was sort of a sense of hey. people people aren't going to they're. more interested in themselves than they. are in taking care of each other other. right they won't you know do X Y or Z. they won't wear masks they won't open.

things up they're not worried about my. finances they're not you know they're. they're they're only worried about their. own thing and I think that that scared. people and and led to a lot of animosity. uh amongst people when I think also. people didn't know if their government. cared anymore yep which was even like a. which was um probably similar yeah in. the sense that were like can I trust my. government can I trust like. um you know you see stories like the uh.

opioid epidemic and you're like the fact. that the family didn't even go to jail. or face any time and the amount of you. know uh the amount of pain that that. caused so many families not to mention. deaths right but I think you know things. like that it makes you start to question. so if you don't even think know if you. can I mean you can always kind of. question your government I think that. that's safe and question Society what's. going on it's good to think um curiously.

but I feel like that was probably. another thing that happened is people. were like I don't know we every. commercial is about drugs like it's just. like who can I where can I get valid. information and who can I trust Y and it. probably became scary you like I have to. start with myself yep and and I think. that that sort of uncertainty leads to. feelings of frustration leads to and and. you know I think part of what happened. too is that for some people they felt. like well the answers here are obvious.

and so why don't other people see how. obvious these answers are and and and I. don't know that the answers were. necessarily obvious but but I think that. people felt like why can't people just. do whatever and then we can get through. this right and when other people during. Co you mean yeah during Co and then yeah. um yeah I think people and people had. just also just real different views of. it it was like in California things were. very locked down and then here um things. were more open yep you know and it was. like what's the best way to do this it.

was hard to learn it even I mean you. know I live in in Green Bay and we've. got you know there's the there's the. Green Bay Public Schools and there's. other public school districts that are. like connected but and they're all doing. different things and so there's a sense. of well here we're doing this 5 miles. away they're doing something different. why you know what what's going on and so. then there's anger and frustration. amongst the people who live in those. communities and then people saying well. I'm going to take my kids and send them. to that school cuz they're doing this or.

I'm going you know and and so all of. these things started to to to Bubble Up. and lead to frustration yeah a lot of. frustration yeah and really I know how. to do it people wanted to yeah the. second you don't trust you or believe. that your Society that's built kind of. has a is looking out for you or you can. trust it then it really the you got to. go back to yourself well and then I mean. imagine if it if we're not talking about. Society we're just talking about a. family right and what and you as like a.

kid in a family realize wow the other. people in this family aren't necessarily. going to do the things that are best for. me right it becomes real hard to to. continue to feel good about that and. over time right people have to earn that. trust back and I think we're right now. in a phase where people haven't where. people don't feel like anyone's earning. that trust back they're just like we. still don't trust each other they don't. have my best interest in mind they don't. care about the same as me what am I. going to do um how are we going to get. through this and I don't think anybody's.

got any answers to that yeah yeah I. wonder if it's one of those things you. just takes time. or I mean that's always the thing yeah I. I think you're right I mean I think I. think time is going to be part of it um. I hope that I hope that there are things. we can rally around um humor is usually. a good one yeah absolutely I know. they're trying to put out like I mean. you would say that you're a comedian. that's probably true I would hope to say. it. they just put out they just had a new. show tires on Netflix which is really.

crazy um I've seen an ad for it I. haven't watched it yet it's like. different than a lot of stuff they put. on there it's just like it seems like. it's from like totally like the 80s or. something you know it's just kind of. like just humor without like judging. that every person in the in the show has. to have certain like Bel like you're. just letting people be they could be. characters like you could have a. character you like like oh that guy's. hilarious but I don't agree with him. whereas to be like oh that guy I'm not.

even going to see if he is hilarious. because I don't agree with the character. right and it's like dude it's a you know. so like just things being more um. possible or just open their brains to. like okay a. character could believe differently than. I do right yep right because I think for. a while it's been like I don't even want. my characters right to have any. different views than I do that's kind of. crazy yeah when you think about that. yeah I mean there like I'm drowning but.

I only want a superhero to show up if he. feels exactly the same way I do yeah. well it's tough I mean like you know I. think one of the tricky things we've had. to deal with is that there are I mean. there are opinions that we people can. like sort of rally around there are. opinions that people can um like. disagree with and in an understandable. reasonable way right reasonable. disagreements but then so often those.

disagreements are are about like real. scary stuff it's not it's not me. disagreeing about like hey is cats a. good movie I don't know why I picked. cats I think it's cuz my son loved the. movie cats oh he did I haven't seen it I. don't think okay I'm not going to. recommend it okay yeah that's that's. that's my advice to you that's if you. walk away with one thing from this. episode is that you probably shouldn't. see cats. Fair yeah so yeah um um I mean so it's.

one thing to like disagree about that. right um totally different if we're. talking about things that like really do. have. a uh like have real consequences for. people you know like there's there there. are some opinions that we can just agree. to disagree and then there's other stuff. that is like no this is like this is. real personal yeah yeah yeah yeah we. didn't used to people didn't used to. care about it that much though yeah they. did I. think it is interesting how like people.

used to never talk about politics that. much you would kind of say maybe who you. were going to vote for and kind of. sometimes you give a couple lines about. it but you never I feel like would be. like oh screw you for voting for that. like it would never even the thought. would never come into your head I feel. like yeah it does feel like it's taken. center stage and I wonder how much of. that is is I mean it's. probably a lot of it is exacer by social. media I suspect the 24-hour news cycle. also led to that too right ruined a lot.

of stuff that created a lot of anger. yeah yep we used to be able to take a. day off half the day off yep but now. they're like oh you need a little more. anger yeah well intentionally so I mean. it's like so there's there's plenty of. research out there that says that you. know content news or anything else that. makes people angry or scared is far more. luckely to go viral than than other. stuff right right and so so politicians. know that and just purely from a from a. financial perspective if you put an ad.

out that makes people mad it's going to. get more clicks it's going to get I mean. it you you double the value essentially. of that ad by making people mad with it. right so there are people who are. benefiting financially from our rage and. that's not just true with politicians. that's true with with you know Fox News. CNN Etc they want to make people mad. going yeah instead of just having an. article they'll they'll reframe the. title so it has an enemy yeah yep that's.

pretty crazy dealing with anxiety and. stress in the age of the 24/7 news cycle. interesting let me see whether it's the. Corona virus political divisiveness. threats of terrorism or mass shootings. um you might not be immediately affected. by these issues but constant exposure to. 24-Hour news and social media which is. often heavily skewed towards the. negative can adversely influence your. mental health and overall well-being. More than 70% of Americans believe the. media blows things out of proportion. which may seem harmless but it could. lead to increased stress and anxiety wow. so but the tough part is if we're.

addicted to it though right yep that's. the tough part is that we're if if we're. addicted to it yeah I mean that's. because I mean you know people are drawn. to this thing that ultimately causes. them harm right you know and what what. is that has that always been I mean has. it just been since the Apple in the. Garden of Eden you know I mean. information is I mean people crave. information right I mean that's an. another emotion that I like to talk. about sometimes is curiosity right and.

people people do crave information it. makes them feel good about themselves. especially if they can share it with. other people it's like a form of social. currency um and so and so H knowing. things is you know better than not. knowing things and so people are drawn. to to media and then when that media. makes them mad they're more likely. actually to share it with other people. they're more likely because it it it it. gets the reaction they want right so if. I came in here and told you just some. sort of arbitrary fact you'd be like.

that's great but if I came in here and. told you something that made you really. mad now I'm getting a reaction i' be. like what the heck what are we going to. do about it exactly it's pretty crazy. and then we problem solve so we've. really just we've kind of like death. hacked oursel in a way like there's life. hacks and then I feel like there's death. hacks and I feel like the algorithm does. that you know or um the the possibility. to always have it at your fingertips. because I'll find if I'd rather just. chill or meditate or if I'd rather go. find something to make me angry mhm I.

sometimes would like to find something. to make me angry yeah I get that yeah. because I mean it does I think for some. people that anger feels uh powerful. right I mean it's like there's a sense I. we talked earlier about it sometimes. feeling helpless but there's a there's a. there's a piece of like the the heart. rate increase the the blood pressure. increase the muscle tension that leads. to these feelings of of excitement yeah. um it feels like it activates you yep. exactly is there a such thing as like a. healthy anger and then what is the.

difference between like a healthy anger. and a rage yeah is that noticeable yeah. so what I would say is that when it. comes to anger I I tend to think of all. emotions as not having um they aren't. positive or negative on their own. they're just information systems right. um and it's it's good to feel things um. in fact if I had a wish for people it. would be that they felt the whole sort. of range of emotions right that that's. what would be good for them but in a. nuanced way meaning that they could.

evaluate whether or not this thing is. that they're feeling is good for them or. bad for them in in in a particular. context so when I think about healthy. versus unhealthy anger a big piece of it. is what is it doing for me or to me. right so am I uh what kind of. consequences am I experiencing for some. people those consequences can be. physical right they can have like heart. problems or muscle tension or chronic. headaches or things like that um for. some people um those consequences are.

like relationships they get in a lot of. verbal and physical fights um online. fights for some people those. consequences are um uh property damage. they break stuff um oh yeah steal stuff. yep um so I mean sometimes though it's. like other negative emotions it's like I. get mad and then afterwards I feel. guilty about something I said and so I. feel real sad later or I get scared that. you know my my partner's going to leave. me or or I'm going to get in trouble um. and so they have these other negative.

emotions talk about people like that's. me I'll get upset and then I will I'll. apologize quickly usually but when I get. into moments of really being really. upset it's hard for me to manage myself. yeah and then do you end up feeling sort. of like guilty about it yeah I feel. remorseful I'm usually good at being. able to apologize pretty quickly that's. good being able to notice my space in it. but but the fact that it happens at all. you know is like is something that has. been uncomfortable for me I think yeah.

um man I appreciate you saying that I. didn't mean to interrupt you there no. that's all right um yeah I think that's. you know it connects to like for a lot. of people their anger leads to things. like substance abuse it leads to. overeating it leads to um even I mean. you know substance abuse defined broadly. like alcohol nicotine included right. people people find ways of coping with. their anger because they don't have. better ways and so they end up turning. to to drugs or alcohol oh yeah and you.

know and that's uh that you know that. ends up having consequences and yeah was. there more you want to say sorry no it's. I mean I think that sort of covers it. but I think I think the big thing is. there are lots and lots of consequences. to unhealthy anger right there's also. lots of good things we can do with it. right there's lots of ways that we can. we can turn our anger into those. positive ways and so when when back to. when people think about okay what how is. what's the impact of this on me um and.

on those people around me is to really. sort of evaluate what what the outcome. is right so if you can take a moment to. evaluate what the outcome is going to be. like what's going to happen right now. I'm upset so if I act on it then I'm. going to have to apologize later I'm. going to be probably then I'm going to. be bummed out it myself yep so now right. now I'm upset at somebody else and maybe. even at myself and then later I'm going. to be po to apologize somebody and. probably then be a little bit. disheartened in myself for my actions.

yeah so it's like what do I really want. or do I just want things. to kind of be chill see I I love what. you're saying right now because to me. one of the one of the best lessons. people can learn about anger or any. emotion is when I'm feeling it I need to. stop for a second and think about what. my goals are what's the thing that I. where do I want to this situation to end. right and and sometimes that is like you. know if I get mad on my my way to work.

uh because somebody cut me off right now. I could I could drive him off the road. and get in a fight with him but does. that get me to work on time right in the. way I want like my goal is to get to my. destination safely um and and so I. should focus on that and anything else. that I try and do in that moment doesn't. serve me yeah you know and I mean I use. an exaggerated example but even giving. them the finger or honking at them all. those things just serve to distract me. from my actual goal yeah and and we can. think about that in a gajillion.

different other places right if I'm if I. get you know if I scrolling through. social media and I see a post that bugs. me yeah I can I can fight back or I can. argue or whatever or I can think about. what what do I why am I here why am I in. this space what's what is the point of. arguing maybe there's maybe there's a. good reason to um and and I should or. maybe there's a good reason for me to. just scroll on and not care. yeah and I was just thinking when you. said that that social media definitely. kind of it almost deflates our anger in.

some ways because instead of a lot of. times it used to be maybe if enough. people got angry about something they. would go protest they would make a. difference they would boycott they would. not use a product or they would stand up. but now it almost feels like you can. comment. into almost a vacuum because of how. quick things disappear Y and you can. just say well I commented or I said you. know or I posted right I did something. but then it kind of like just satiates. enough the human desire to do something.

where we don't end up doing things and. then we as a group get kind of further. and further into this crass I I think. that is a real problem I think you're. absolutely I do I think you're. absolutely right that that a big a big. part of what happens is some there's. this the social Med and I don't want to. minimize social media activism because. there are forms of it that are really. powerful and really meaningful but but. there are also forms of it that are that. don't do much right right and but they. they I think use the word satiate right. they they give you a sense of like I did.

something and because I did something I. can now rest right I I'm I I had my. impact right I had my human impact but. it's not sometimes it's and it changes. so much right um it changes so much. whereas like every day there's a new. Option almost yep so the thing you. impacted is just they've almost just. replaced it with something new yep and. and there's a new thing to be mad about. too right you've got a new I've got a. new uh uh both outlet but also you know.

thing to F moved right along yep here's. a article that was in the Atlantic the. problem of social media. protests um before the internet changes. speed at which the world moves movements. were slower growing a year of organizing. and directly advocating for change LED. to a 13th Monon long Montgomery Bus. Boycott that began with Rosa Park's AC. of. resistance um right that's what it used. to be like uh by cont Mass protests such. as Occupy Wall Street formed rapidly but. then lacking that underlying resilience.

created over time often lost Focus. Direction and most important their. potential to affect change interesting. so in some ways it feels like what what. they're saying is when you when you put. a lot of work into something in advance. then you want to see it through in ways. that social media protests don't have. that right it's like you know I've been. thinking about this for a week so I. don't need to keep thinking about I mean. I don't have as much sunk in into this. no and if I close the app I'm not even. an activist anymore right right. interesting it's kind of interesting huh.

yeah I grew up in a home where there was. a lot of anger right it was probably our. number one emotion that we had right you. know uh it was just Farm to Table there. it was like you got it was 100%. grassfed all right you know and it was. it was just the only way that we. communicated how much of a respon. responsibility is it it of parents to. like teach kids what their feelings are.

right yeah I I love this um so real. quick when you say there was a lot of. anger was it mostly like outward Express. like yelling screaming stuff like that. mostly yelling screaming throwing things. um judgment okay um those are like the. main emotions you know and then humor. okay so but we otherwise it was just. always you knew somebody was going to be. angry where were you in the in the birth. order I was number two I have an older. brother and two sisters okay and the.

sisters are both younger than you Yep. they're both younger and everybody's um. alive still pretty much okay pretty much. yeah I mean some people are you know got. it they're willing to risk it all you. know but uh some of us are doing our. best so but yeah but so that's where we. at and that it was just there was a lot. of anger in there you know I think that. um what my feeling is with with kids in. particular I mean we can think about. this from the well I'll start with what.

I consider to be sort of the the golden. rule of of emotion and and parenting and. that is that kids tend to express. emotions the way their caregivers did. and so they tend to it's it's rooted in. like age-old psychology that we it's. called modeling right and so kids tend. to model what their parents did that if. if Mom or Dad yell and scream kids tend. to yell and scream as a way of of. dealing with emotions and um now there's.

some caveats that because simultaneously. the the other side is that you know kids. sometimes get rewarded or punished for. emotional Expressions um of particular. types right so a kid hits somebody and. they get punished for it um yeah um now. oddly enough sometimes they get punished. for it by getting hit by by the parent. right getting spanked or or whatever. right that's kind of wild when you think. about it like that right and so. um or they get in trouble for yelling by. being yell that um you know so like.

there there's all sorts of mixed. messages there D um but to me I mean. some of the the healthiest things you. can do with kids when you're when you're. trying to raise emotionally wise. children is to talk about feelings often. to give them the the give them the. language to have that conversation to. help them identify what they're feeling. I think that's a big problem for a lot. of people for a lot of kids and. continues is they don't know the. difference between anger and sadness.

they don't know the difference between. fear and anger oh yeah I would just. start VI you know every you see that kid. he's just vibrating you don't know. what's going on you got to show them a. um flash card or something you know say. that's Joy that's anger that's but yeah. cuz you don't know right and so helping. kids to I mean one of the things I like. to do with my kids and is um and liked. when they were young is to like unpack. those. emotional experiences with them and and. not just their own but when they see a.

kid you know melting down or a kid. getting angry or sad or scared or. whatever to to say so what do you. think's going on like what where did. that come from why you know if we're. watching TV and a kid react somewh just. so at least that they can have their own. head like okay this is what happens when. this happens this is what I look like. when it happens this is where I can. start to see in somebody else what's. going on and then you'll recognize it in. yourself and at least have some sort of. you'll be the conductor in some way as. much as you can yep maybe some of the. outcomes if not some of the origins of.

the feeling yeah and then you can even. talked through you know what are some. options for them now right you know this. kids right yeah you just had this just. is feeling really hurt what can what can. he or she do uh to deal with those. feelings of hurt and I mean I think. those are all are like good healthy ways. but I think it starts with wanting to. make sure people are having those. conversations that people are really. understanding it because part of what. happens too is that people can realize. that you know the we like to believe and. I've even been saying you know look your.

your your feelings are one of the ways. your brain tells you what what's going. on what you're experiencing that doesn't. necessarily mean that they're rooted in. logic or reality or that they're even. really valid right we we can be angry. over a misunderstanding we can be scared. over something that's not really. dangerous um and the the feelings are. real right we shouldn't minimize that. but we should take some time to like. unpack them and talk about like what. what is what's going on why why you.

feeling this way I think that kind of. stuff is important at least because I. think for myself a long I didn't know a. lot of feelings I was even having I. didn't know I only knew a couple. like I I I remember like yeah like. certain things were going on and I. wouldn't really have any feelings about. it and I was like man I never really had. a lot of feelings so I think sometimes. talking with your kids like oh this is a. feeling that's what that is what's going. on cuz otherwise you can just think. you're Bonkers as a child you know like. if somebody doesn't tell you kind of.

what's happening with you well a lot of. times kids aren't really allowed to have. feelings right I mean that like that. that they're shamed for them that the. message is hey hold that in don't let. people see that um and then I mean of. course that's going to continue uh into. into adulthood um where where they're. just they don't feel like they're. allowed they don't feel like it's safe. to express that stuff I was thinking if. you allow your kids right like like. space to feel their feelings mhm okay.

does that creating them like you know. recognize they're feeling something. allow them a little space to feel it. right yeah does that create like more of. like an emotional resilience in them. which would just then like then when. they're angry again it would just kind. of become another emotion to them sort. of like um does that make any sense yeah. I mean I think what what you really want. so then in the future they could cope. better so if it happens to them next. time be like okay yep CU what you really.

want is I mean you want a situation. where your kids. can when they're feeling something a. know what they're feeling B have a sense. for where it's coming from understand. like its root causes be able to. critically evaluate those root causes. and then know what to do with it right. and I mean and that's a that's a level. of sophistication that I don't think. frankly most people are capable of but. it's because we haven't given them the. space or the tools to do that over their.

lifetime and I think we're way better. than at this as a society now than we. were when you and I were kids right like. we're way better uh at at trying to. provide those tools to to kids but it it. comes with them it it comes with people. being able to have those conversations. to say hey let's talk about what you're. feeling right now not in a like. necessarily a judgment or punishe way. like hey you just got real mad you hit. your brother let's let's have a. conversation about that let's talk about.

better ways to to handle that let's make. sure we make up for what we did so it's. not like it's consequence-free people. oftentimes accuse me of being sort of. wimpy and like hey you're you're letting. your kids walk all over you they got to. get punished or whatever that's it's not. that it's consequence-free it's like no. we're going to we're going to deal with. with those uh with those feelings um and. and try and figure out sort of the best. way to hand it and yeah that that helps. them develop that emotional resilience. going forward yeah at least having some.

emotional understanding of yourself y. but how do you then like put the cap on. it where you're like yeah it's okay if. my kid is a you know like um like how do. we not turn into one of these societies. where it's just like oh I don't feel. like going to work today so I'm not. going to go yeah you know like that's. nobody ever feels like going work that's. the first thing it should tell you when. you go when you ever go to school one. day you're going to go to work and. nobody's going to feel like that should. be the first thing that they teach us. yeah no I mean it's true like like the. message also has to be that your.

emotions alone aren't necessarily reason. not to do something yeah you know I mean. that's the you know I I have a I have. two kids um both of them are are very. very awesome in in different ways um but. the you know the one is he's he's a. performer he's a dancer and he he's in. um a lot of musicals and things like. that and he one of the things that I can. say about him is people people often. talk about how Brave he is and he is is. but I know him well enough to know that. he he gets real anxious about about. performing and those things he's feeling.

that fear it's not that he's not scared. it's that he knows how to do things. anyways and that's where you want people. to get like you want people to get to a. point of right now you know what I'm. feeling sad and I don't feel like being. able to go I don't feel like going to. work but I also need to do it I. understand what my responsibilities are. and I can work through that um and and I. think like there's there's something to. be said for for I mean to me that's a. big part of what emotional resilience is. it's being able to to feel things and.

then overcome those feelings at times. right yeah and I think if you give your. kids space for that it feels like you're. going to that that's a armor you can. create in them as well it's like hey you. feel sad right now or you feel a little. disappointed this is how you can manage. that right now and look five minutes. later wow look we're right back to where. we were before everything's good so then. when they have those things happen in. their own lives when you're not around. they're going to have like some sort of. even if it's just brief little check-ins. from a parent are huge well you can I. mean that's the thing I mean and this.

isn't just about parenting this is about. being a supervisor it's about being a. human being you can be sensitive and. have expectations yeah right you can you. can be sensitive to your your kids. emotional needs and have things you. expect them to do you can be sensitive. to your employees and have expectations. of them right you know and and. frankly you can be sensitive to yourself. and you can be sort of patient and. caring with yourself and still have. expectations for for what you want to.

accomplish that's a tough one sometimes. yeah giving yourself some Grace mhm um. I'm terrible at it are you yeah I am. yeah I'm really hard on myself yeah me. too man yeah God that that probably back. remember when we were talking about type. A at the beginning right that's probably. part of it right is like you you're you. know you're competitive you're success. driven and and that means you you you. want to accomplish certain things and. that means be in a certain way. yeah yeah it's interesting because I. don't know when I would ever give myself. the benefit of the doubt very often you.

know I almost have to have someone say. hey man give yourself some Grace here. right you know like Eno like feel some. pride you know I think uh and then. sometimes I don't blame this on about. being a kid or whatever but I think I. never knew anything I never knew any. nobody like I never knew what I was. feeling or what was going on so I think. even things like that with your kid like. hey man you can feel proud of yourself. like. I know some of it sounds lame probably. in some senses but the cost of not doing.

it with your kids I think can be kind of. immense yep because growing up not. knowing like having my own sense of. what's okay for me mhm leaves me at the. whim of what other people think is okay. for me you know and that can just get. kind of harrowing I'm not you know. trying to like wo is me that's not fully. my story but it can I could see it being. really risky for folks you know you know. for me one of the things that's been. really helpful is to surround myself. with really good people um who who care.

about me and that there are people who. who um you know when I'm being hard on. myself sometimes it's nice to have a. friend who can sort of step in and. remind me like hey you know it's okay to. it's okay to to not have things happen. exactly as you want them it's okay to to. take a break and just be proud of what. you accomplished today and it's nice to. have people in your life who who can. support that way yeah so yeah it feels. like we always have to be making. something better these days too like.

that every it would be like if you if. you knew somebody and something was. wrong with them people would just be. like dang something's wrong with him y. you know and then 10 years later people. would be like dang how's Ernie and then. people like something is wrong with him. like it had escalated you know like he. bought an empty swimming pool and he was. spending time in there and so but now. it's like is that a real story is there. a real person you know who bought an. empty swimming pool and there was some. men in our neighborhood that would kind. of like meet up or whatever in like this.

empty swimming pool at night and smoke. weed or Whatever Whenever I hear you. drop an example like that part of me is. like did that just come from his brain. or is that like a real thing oh no that. was a real thing dude we grew up in a. very shirtless area if you will it was. very a lot of people just a lot of. people whistling and no. shirts just a lot of just I like doing. their best that was a good description I. I like that I can I can imagine what. this what this area was like we grew up. in the Stray animal belt brother so. there was just a lot of yeah lot of.

shirtless people shirtless people and no. collars on these animals either you know. what I'm saying everybody was just. risking it all um can uh can we still. have childhood anger as adults like what. happens to anger from our childhood that. isn't processed or what happens to. unprocessed anger yeah you know I I. think two things are can can be true. here right I think on the one hand yeah. we can absolutely still have you know. anger and resentment and stuff that.

happened when we were kid that we. continue to be mad about forever I also. think that it's sort of never too late. to process some of that stuff right I. mean yeah you know and that that there's. no reason why in your 40s or 50s you. can't start to deal with some of the. stuff that you're you were mad about um. still from childhood it might be harder. and I also think we have to be honest. about what the what the outcome is going. to be right I I mean we have to. recognize that some of those things I.

guess think about what dealing with it. looks like because I can't it's a good. point you brought it up earlier with the. other topic is like follow think it um. what outcome you want to have what was. the other one yeah no it's like what are. your goals here and and I think the. thing is like you know when you're when. you're I'm 48 years old right when. you're 48 you might not you might not be. able to make to fix the bad stuff that. happened that you're still frustrated by. so that can't be the goal but maybe it. is to forgive maybe it's to um better.

understand where if it is a person who. wronged you where that person was coming. from I mean those are all um things that. we can try and process ways we can try. and deal with maybe it's just to forgive. ourselves for for you know not handling. it in a different way man forgive. ourselves for not being able to forgive. people even that crazy right right cuz. that sometimes it's like it's crazy I. never thought about that sometimes it's.

not even that I'm upset anymore as much. that I can't forgive the person it's. like I start to get upset at myself cuz. I. can't forgive the person so I'm not. upset at the person anymore I'm just. upset at me because I'm having trouble. forgiving is that crazy yeah no that I. mean not crazy that that's really. interesting and insightful right I'm I'm. I I'm still mad at this person I feel. like I shouldn't be and I'm struggling. I'm mad at me because I can't forgive. them yeah okay yeah I mean yeah. sometimes that yeah I would just notice.

it can hop from one thing thing like. that and I don't even know exactly what. I'm mad about you know um that's what. you know I was thinking about it earlier. like so I was once a um I was once a. really bad student really yeah I know. that's surprising to people yeah I. really really struggled in high school. um and I actually failed out of my first. University um and um my God I know it. was and and a lot of it came I mean it. came from a lot of different places like.

one of them was um uh I so I was a. DieHard soccer player uh and soccer fan. at the time and I had a hard time like. not being more interested in that than. in school soccer so much yep and same. thing I I drank too much my my first. year in college too that was that was. relevant um not in high school at all in. college that was a problem but also I. just hadn't developed a lot of like the. study skills necessary to to be. successful and um and so I I still like.

I I years later I still find myself sort. of struggling with that like mad at. myself for not having done better mad at. myself for not having made more of of my. college experience cuz what happened is. I I took a I took a break like 6 months. off I traveled a little bit I was very. very fortunate that like I had a safety. net you know it didn't mean I was like. homeless I I could right you could. afford to go somewhere and travel yep. and I and I had I could live with my mom.

for a little while while I sort of. figured things out in ways that a lot of. my students can't you know and and so um. so um having that um I I went back to. college and I kind of got it together. right after taking a little break but. but I'm I'm mad at myself still for not. having a different kind of college. experience you know wow yeah man that's. funny I'll get upset at myself myself. with like yeah that I didn't have a. blast in college sometimes like that's. just this general term that's in my head.

man I'm upset that I didn't have a blast. in college yeah but if I went and looked. through a calendar and [ __ ] people be. like dude you had a great time right. it's like sometimes I don't even. remember things correctly it's like my. perspective of them isn't even clean and. then or clear and then I'll get upset at. a Unreal and then I'll be like [ __ ] man. I got to [ __ ] or I'll be like dang. man I got to enroll somewhere yep yep. know I could still be a mascot I can't. play but I could still be a mascot you. know you just start going and then it's. like I'm in this weird anger against.

myself and it's maybe the perspective. wasn't clear you know or yeah well a lot. of times our our emotions our memories. of emotional experiences aren't accurate. dude why and so I mean part of it is. that we hit the highlights or the low. lights right and so like if you think. about a a and actually somebody did a. study on this um where they had people. monitor their emotions over the course. of a week-long vacation and then when. they came back they took a survey how. did did you enjoy the vacation right and.

what they found is that there was very. little correlation between those two. things because when people are are at. the end of a trip when they're saying. how did you feel they're reflecting on. the high points or the low points right. and they're just thinking like the. overall experience was Super Rad I was. in Jamaica it was great I loved it what. they forget is you know how long it took. to get their luggage um what they forget. like getting stuck in traffic for hours. and hours and hours bugs or whatever all. that stuff and so violence or whatever. yep and so they they forget all that.

stuff and they just focus on those other. things or and I think the same thing. could be true of college right it's like. you you you you think about sort of the. high points or the low points you don't. think about the like you know the other. sort of of elements the things that. happen the day in and day out stuff yeah. and um or or sort of we think about like. an overall theme of what it was like and. in of instead of um you know those those. day in and day out experiences yeah I. think it's called chunking or something.

I'm not sure how a why our brain our. memory does that I've been reading this. book um by this guy Dr sarath but it's. about our memories and stuff it's pretty. it's pretty interesting yeah um dude. sometimes when it comes to my anger and. stuff I will even. like like I think I remember being so. angry when I was a kid I almost. like I enjoy my anger in a way cuz it's. like I had such a relationship with it I.

don't know if that sounds crazy or not. no it it doesn't I mean I think I don't. enjoy it is then I want to like act it. out or something or vandalize a shelter. or whatever but like that I want to like. if I there's a part of me still that. when I get angry it connects to that kid. part of me that was angry and it's like. this is it's ours you know right well I. think all of us like you know we've been. talking about anger as an emotion and it. is but it's also sometimes a personality. trait right it's a it's a oh really yeah. I mean it's a it's a characteristic like. some there are some people who are just.

angrier than others or some people. Express their anger more outwardly or. experience more consequences and and. because of that um you know I think with. any personality trait sometimes as human. beings we we cling to things that we. sort of like as defining characteristics. right and so like and we we we cling to. those as things that like make us proud. of ourselves or that we enjoy or. whatever um so maybe a person says well. hey like I'm I'm kind that's that's.

that's just who I am and I lean into. that um maybe someone leans into the. idea that they're an angry person and. that it's you know that's kind of how. they identify I think that's true. especially because so and this I'm not. advocating for this but anger is how a. lot of successful people get things done. right um did you ever watch the show. Entourage yeah okay so Ari Gold that. that char you know that's rooted in a. real life person um and he who I think. had um like used those kinds of of um.

tactics yeah tactics and used angry. aggressive approach to to manipulate. people and to um to get people to do. what he what he wanted right and so like. that's someone who I think um probably. like appreciates that he identifies as. an angry person right you know he. appreciates that he identifies that way. yeah I mean I think it's like this is is. just part of who I am and it's part of. what makes me successful oh I see but. then is that just a cop out of somebody. that doesn't want to deal with their.

anger though probably I mean I think for. a lot of people that's that's them it's. a I think they're scared to change it's. like I mean if this is the thing that. I've identified as making me successful. well then dealing with it might mean. that I'm no longer going to be. successful going to be good at what I do. can um but if it's a trait then so it. can be a real thing that some people are. just are yeah I mean it I think like any. trait like without any provoca like. without any yeah there I think there's. still provocations I just think that.

they're quick that it doesn't take as. much right and so it doesn't take as. much of a provocation to make someone. mad okay um and it's still I mean it it. it still comes from a combination of. upbringing probably some genetics you. know that people are more likely to be. angry uh much of the time um you know. and and so it it still comes from from. from that place what are parenting. strategies to assist kids with coping. with anger yeah like um like like not.

feeling anger very. often. or yeah like what are some of those do. you feel like yeah I mean I think for. what what I would say is there's there's. when it comes to to Kids one of the. probably the most important things to do. is is help them develop the tools that. allow them to sort of find ways to. decrease their anger in the moment right. and that's often times for kids going to. be deep breathing it's going to be.

distraction is actually a really good. one so find something else you can do. for a little while maybe it's we talked. about drawing earlier maybe it's playing. with Legos maybe it's petting your dog. whatever things like that that that. allow you to to sort of deescalate yeah. um the other side of it is you know. helping kids identify where they have. some control and this is harder with. kids cuz I think they have a little less. control in their their day-to-day life. where can kids have control in their um. uh surroundings and their environment.

how can they sort of do less of the. things that um that provoke uh that. might provoke anger right I my my son is. a my other son is a dieh hard basketball. fan um and he's he's player and fan and. so we've been watching the NBA quite a. bit um I'm from Minnesota originally so. okay so you guys are in huh yeah so. we're we're Timber wols fans but you. know and he handles you know they won. last night that was great uh but they've.

been um you know they're they're down a. couple yeah and he he handles it well. but you know it takes a toll on him like. he gets sad he's 12 years old he gets. sad when they uh when they lose and so. that's the kind of thing that like over. time you know you want to think about. what kind of impact that's having you. want to think about how much it's. influencing you you want to think about. whether or not you as a parent you mean. yeah like a kid doing something if it's. something that like what they're engage. what they're absorbing you mean yeah I. mean as a parent you want you want them. to be thinking about how much time.

they're spending and this thing that. ends up having taking an emotional toll. on yeah is it good to let your children. feel anger is it I think so I mean I. think like anything I mean up up to a. point you know I think it's good to let. them because that's how they're going to. deal with the I mean I think the art of. dealing with emotions is is I like to. exercise I saw a post of yours working. out the other day right you were on a. run or something like that oh yeah yeah. I like to run yeah me too every day you.

do I do yeah oh wow um I think it's. great great for my mental health great. for for everything um but it the thing. about. um I I think it's similar dealing with. emotions is similar to exercise and that. you know when you exercise you push. yourself to a p place of discomfort okay. but never so uncomfortable that it's. actually harmful right and I think you. can do the same thing with emotions you. can push yourself into a Zone where this. emotion is uncomfortable with me for me.

but it's not so uncomfortable that I'm. I'm suffering right and so it's like I. want to feel some fear because I want to. get used to dealing with that discomfort. and I want to sort of learn to to cope. with it but I don't want to feel so much. fear that I'm like on the floor shaking. or anything like that and and with kids. I want them to feel I want them to feel. some anxiety and learn that they can. just do the thing anyways yeah I want. them to feel some fear some anger and. learn that they can do the thing anyways. um and work through it that's a good.

healthy way to be yeah it's just. interesting when you think about like. that it's a parents responsibility to do. all of that you know like how many. little things that they learn because of. how the parents let them absorb it or. and that's I think one of the challenges. is I imagine that you know um you know. our parents our parents age um didn't. um it it wasn't on their radar to be. thinking about stuff like this you know. that they just didn't know and so they.

weren't necessarily attuned to like what. what kids might need uh or benefit from. from an emotional perspective yeah it. was a different time another thing that. really I'll get angry is um if I expect. people to it's kind of unrealistic to. expectations but it's uh thinking people. should know what I want even if I. haven't explained it yeah it's there's a. name for this and it's escaping me right. now but there is that sort of like a. it's like the opposite of mind reading.

it's like they should be able to read. your mind right and know exactly yeah. and so it's like hey I why don't they. know exactly the way I want this thing. done and then why aren't they doing it. that way yeah and and for people who are. ambitious and people who you know are. success driven then that becomes a a. sticking point it's part of that type a. thing that I mentioned before right it. becomes a sticking point leads to that. that frustration um you know why why. isn't it happening the way I wanted to.

what other personality types and what. types of angers do they have do they. have all of specific angers or not. really you just find that type A has. more yeah I mean type A is I mean. originally part of how it was sort of. identified was that it was that that. people with type A with that behavior. pattern they called it at the time they. were um that they were angrier more. aggressive the things you mentioned was. goalss being blocked and I guess if you. have if you're driven like that or have. that extra like Drive which can be a.

blessing in a curse sometimes then you. would have more goals just even. generally floating around in your head. yeah and another strategy not that not. like the the disorder obsessive. compulsive disorder but sort of an. obsessive compulsive personality type is. also associated with anger for similar. reasons it's like I want things the way. I want them and because I want them this. way when other people don't live up to. that expectation it it makes me madad. right you know I want my home a certain. way and if people don't set it up that.

way if they don't if they won't um do. the things I want I get angry or um yeah. and so it's like you know people who are. really kind of rule driven or have want. things in a specific way are just more. likely to to to get angry that's why you. know if we we think about um some of. those what we call the Big Five. personality traits one of them like. people who are a little bit more open a. little bit more flexible are less likely. to to experience anger gosh yeah gosh.

those people are good I would Dr oh I. almost feel like I would drink their. blood is that crazy to say that because. I just that's I just I wish I could have. some more of that yeah no I get it I. mean it's yeah I mean that that's the. thing we know is that I think there's a. real drive right now in sort of modern. sort of pop psychology to be really. accepting of all personality traits and. and I think I mean I get why we should. be accepting and be supportive but I. think we should also acknowledge that. there are some ways of being that might. end up being a little healthier than.

than other ways right and and openness. is a is a great quality right and. conscientiousness is a great quality. those things agreeableness right those. things are are are the kinds of things. that that help people be successful in. in a lot of ways and help them be. likable and help them be happy yeah what. about in relationships you guys talk. about a lot about that like how do you. de deal with a if you have a spouse that. you feel like has some anger issues yeah. it that is really tough especially.

because anger issues in families can. look lots of different ways right. because there's the there's the kind. that is really scary and potentially. like bordering on abuse where the anger. is driven at the particular person right. it's the the angry husband yelling at. the angry wife or vice versa right and. and that's one way it can look the other. way is just um a person who's just angry. at the world doesn't necessarily take it. out on the family and that's actually. the way my dad was like he was an angry.

guy he didn't I I can count on one hand. the number of times he yelled at me that. I wasn't the the victim it was usually. the waiter or the gas station attendant. or some other driver you know and so um. those but that still has consequences. right it still scared me as a kid right. I mean yeah it would have scared me if. he were yelling at me but it also scared. me when he's yelling at a stranger right. and you know those those moments um can.

really sort of take a toll I mean I. think you know relationships are. obviously tricky I think a lot of times. with with relationships it's got to be. about communication it's got to be about. like a person being willing to do the. work to try and change yeah and what. kind of help do people need that are. that have severe anger problems that's. the thing I think it's you know there. are lots of things that people can do on. their own without a professional But. ultimately when the when the situation.

is bad enough people need to to talk to. a therapist right and how do they. recognize when it's bad enough do you. think sorry I keep just stacking. questions on you no that's all right. those are great questions I mean I mean. I think usually it should be driven by. the the consequences and and to. me for me if a partner came to me and. said hey your anger is making me. uncomfortable your anger scaring me or. it's making like to me that's enough for. me to want to say okay I got to do. something about it and if I can't on my.

own well then I'm going to go get some. help get some help somehow yeah yeah um. if it's not in a relationship if it's if. it's just you know I'm I'm I find myself. getting so angry I'm like uncomfortable. with it or I don't like living with. myself or it I'm you know drinking too. much or whatever as a way of coping with. it well then those are all all ways that. I can those are all signs that I need to. meet with someone if I can't fix it on. my own yeah yeah cuz most of my Ang.

usually just comes out about work stuff. right you know in person in regular life. I'm usually pretty chill yeah but yeah I. think when it comes to work and wanting. to get things. done yeah and wanting to be like. efficient or yeah a lot of just. unrealistic expectations well it sounds. like it's motivated like that there's an. undercurrent of stress there right. there's an undercurrent of like hey if. if I don't if I don't meet these. expectations if I don't accomplish these. things something bad's going to happen.

right and so I'm I'm I'm anxious because. I have these goals or I'm stressed. because I have these goals and I get mad. when things get in the way of them yeah. yeah yeah I think sometimes the motiv. it's like I think sometimes they come. from an unrealistic space overall. because sometimes I think I just have. unrealistic expectations of myself right. so that I'll never be able to achieve. them so always be at a loss right and so. then it'll couple with some some like. core belief I've always had that I'm not.

enough right that sort of right to me. that's how I've been able to kind of see. that what some of that makeup is like. and I'm not trying to look at it as like. a wo is me I'm just looking at it yeah. no that that's great and and I would I I. bet I don't know this but but tell me. you know I bet sometimes those. unreasonable expectations the way that. they matter like boots on the ground in. a particular week or day is that you end. up. planning too much or trying to do too. much you know and it's like you know you. think to yourself well hey for me to. achieve X I've got to get AB andc done.

this week and it's impossible to get AB. andc done in a in a single week and so. so you set yourself up for failure that. way oh yeah a lot of I won't give things. a lot of breathing room right you know. and that kind of is a bummer I know. sometimes you have a meeting with a. friend like oh wish this meeting could. be another 45 minutes but yeah you know. I only set up a certain amount of time. because too focused on the work aspect. of it and not focused on like the human. aspect of it so that happens I do I do. this all the time like one of one of my.

you know I set goals for myself every I. do this every semester right I I. intentionally I say these are the things. I want to do this semester this year. whatever and then what that translates. into is well that means that this month. I've got to get X Y and Z done I got to. do these things and then that means I I. over plan for a particular week or day. and then I get frustrated with with. myself yeah and then it connects back to. that core belief that you're talking. about of well I'm not good enough right. or I ruin everything I can't do this.

what the f you f you loser too often the. solution to that is that we instead of. giving ourself Grace and being patient. with ourselves and saying hey we set. impossible goals for oursel is we just. say well we just need to work harder. yeah right and then we feel crappy when. we don't achieve. it man that's just a lot of my life as I. just have to work harder yeah I could. yeah it was tough sometimes to have fun. I would tell my friends I've said this. before but my friends like let's go do. this thing I'm like I can't go I have to.

write a book and that's where my mind. always was kind of it was like you can't. go do that yep you have all this [ __ ] to. do yeah don't you know you have all this. [ __ ] to do and I would never even look. at exactly what the stuff was it was. just this gen and I didn't realize that. to Recon I'm like what [ __ ] do I have to. do like I never even I just assumed I. had to do all these things it was like. this do list that was something was. always being added on to yeah and. sometimes it was like the worst part of. my brain was was just going to add. things on there no matter what like.

unrealistic things like look better. right like all right by 8:00 P.M or. whatever you're like this is we can't do. you know just like or just you know you. should be different like that's but that. would be like the kind of just like. vague thing that would be on this yeah. well yeah and then and ultimately you. know that to-do list never ends right I. mean you just keep adding to it because. there's always more you can do and so. that's the problem I mean I've been I've.

been thinking about this a lot lately. with work is that part of what happens. is that we fill up the cracks like we. fill up all the time with just more work. and and this is particularly true of. ambitious people is that they say well I. can just I can just keep going like. there's no end there's no end to the. amount of work um that I can that I can. find to fill in and if I want to be. success in the ways I want to be. successful then that's what I've got to. do and then that's that hurts right we. suffer in the long and it makes me think.

when you're talking about that do we. have like just such. un like how do we temper. or how do we perspectivization. [Applause]. [Music]. like to successful so that it's actually. specific and realis and yeah and then is. enough right well I mean because in some.

way you said before you like running I. don't know if you do if you do races. like if you've ever if you ever run you. know whatever um but I mean it'd be like. I don't do races I would do them okay. but I don't do them yet but it it's like. it's like if if every race you did the. Finish Line just kept moving right. because we move it on ourselves um and. and. and we don't accept that like we've. accomplished a thing I do I mean one of. the one of the things I do to sort of. keep myself happy even though I have.

this this personality style too right. where I'm just constantly adding to-dos. one of the ways I keep myself happy is. by by really marking those achievements. like when I've finished a thing I I. treat it like an accomplishment I don't. just add to it I stop and I say we did a. thing like let's be be happy about that. let's be excited now we can we can take. a day before we move on to the next. thing um so the next thing's still going. to be there for me and and I admit I.

think there's something about me that I. I need that next thing I don't know what. I do like you know if you want to get to. the root of like what scares me most. it's retirement right really oh yeah I. don't retirement in the sense of having. too much time then or retirement in the. sense of just not having like a specific. goal maybe it's that I don't know what. my brain would do I don't know how it. would operate without a thing without a. thing to think about or like without. work to think about I don't know what it.

would yeah we got to find out H yeah. yeah dude we got to just just just torch. your calendar and get a little weird I. feel like you get got you know like who. knows a little weird I mean or you know. just see what God wants but it's like. yeah oh I can't imagine dude if somebody. said you can't do the like you can't. work tomorrow tomorrow yeah I literally. something would crawl out of me and go. like this yep no I have uh I I've been.

we we got Furlow days this this year do. you know you know what a Furlow is like. for disease or something no we uh we we. had some we had to take uh unpaid days. like forced to take unpaid days to save. the university money and um and we're. literally not we're going to do that. yeah just letting everybody know right. now Dr Ryan Martin has brought in yeah. yeah we're so we're literally not. allowed to work right and and so um and.

and I I mean I shouldn't say this. because I'll get in trouble but I've. been working on those days I just I just. don't use my computer because I'm not. allowed to because I'm just like on my. phone like right doing but you're say. look doing stuff I'm on a different. computer just still working so yeah I. work sometimes to keep me away from. having to deal with my own person. personal life I think sometimes okay do. people do that oh yeah absolutely I mean. that's a that's a real distraction for I.

mean that that's part of part of what. happens is yeah yeah cuz I think it. feels manageable you know it just feels. like I can control what's going to. happen you know yeah absolutely I get. that um but that's okay it doesn't mean. necessarily a bad thing no I don't think. so either I mean I I think. like there are lots of things in. people's lives that can be fulfilling. and and yeah personal relationships are. absolutely one of those things and it's. people should they're good for us in a. good jillion different ways but people.

can be fulfilled by their work um. especially I mean I you know especially. when when they identify ways that their. work is really. meaningful um and not just to them but. to the world around them and if they can. see that and then yeah it's really. fulfilling to to to do that work I think. what what would make me sad is if I like. hit a point where I thought you know hey. I've been doing all of this and none of. it really mattered right you yeah or to.

or to people in the world right like it. all sort of went away I I don't I don't. think that's true of the job I do I. don't think it's true of the job you do. I think it matters to to people and um. and it and it matters to me but um but. it would be you know for someone who job. was to do whatever yeah you know they. well I could see that happening I could. see especially like as get more. technologically advanced and we take. away jobs MH you know um that people. start to lose their purpose you have to.

have some purpose right or you just you. won't have any you won't care about. yourself or anything you everything has. to have a purpose yep and then and then. for people it's about well where do they. find that right because maybe it's not. work and it's okay if it's not work. right it could be it could be your. hobbies it could be your family it could. be seeing the world it could be a. billion things yeah yeah yeah I do think. though that sometimes with like like. like I wish there was just something. that was like hey no more technology yep. yeah yeah you know like we're we're.

doing fine we don't need like a robot. sheriff and six Uber drivers hiding from. him all you know like like and. everything you know it's like that's. what it just yeah I don't know I think. about that sometimes like why we. wouldn't stop technology. because it doesn't feel like it Serv us. sometimes at a certain point right yeah. well especially the way in which we have. reacted to it I mean in so many way.

technology I think almost by definition. is supposed to make our lives better and. supposed to make our lives easier right. yeah and I don't necessarily see that. happening right it it makes specific. tasks easier but then we fill up that. space with other work right you know it. like um have you ever tried to do some. task that's really easy now but have you. ever thought about like what it used to. be like when we were young to like oh. yeah dude like I even just even writing. a sentence the other day it was like.

where are we yeah I was like what. happened dude is this are we in like the. is this a war treaty or something I was. like what are we even and then I was. watching um it was a pencil right and I. was watching the leg come out of I was. like this is. crazy this just happened ye I cannot. even believe it yeah it it's me when I. think about how how uh I think honestly. it was like uh it was getting my tickets.

for this flight and I was like thinking. about how there was a time when like you. ordered paper tickets and they came in. the mail and you had to like carry them. with you and you were all excited yeah. yeah versus handphone yeah you got a. ticket to a concert like there were. certainly things that added this like. there was more of a um when there was. more paper in the world things that. there I don't know things felt a little. bit more connected even when there was. like a local newspaper and stuff and you. got your name in it for something or you. got to see what was happening in your. community it was a big deal like they.

don't have a lot of those anymore and so. a lot of just like the value of being a. community that's not just like a. national Community feels like it's. dilapidating some I think that's true I. mean I think that's. the there's definitely a degree to which. people have sort of like locked. themselves in into their homes in ways. that they're like and they think they're. interacting with people because they are. online but they're not necessarily.

coming out and talking to their. neighbors regularly no they're not even. talking to their spouses or kids they're. all this in their room on their devices. just ordering door Dash or whatever y. like exotic pistachios or whatever like. people are ordering just a lot of weird. stuff and then it just at Christmas they. all meet up in the living room you know. everybody's like wow mom grew a mustache. you know and it's just yeah it's just I. don't know it's a different time exotic. pistachios yeah dude they're good some.

of them are good they um I'm trying to. think any other things you found you've. gotten your that you get angry at. yourself for Dr. Martin um I think some things that like. the things that tend to jump out of me a. lot of them are things we talked about. like it's I I get angry at myself when I. don't achieve whatever I set my mind to. um whatever I've decided and that's true. not just with work but it's true with. like personal or fitness goals or or. things like that you know when I like I.

said I I map out pretty specific goals. and then when I don't achieve those. things I I tend to get disappointed with. myself um I I think I tend to I've. become much more relaxed over time not. necessarily at work but much more. relaxed about just the uh my. interactions with other people that I. meet every I've sort of embraced that. philosophy of hey everybody's dealing. with something and just you know I I was. going through security yesterday at the.

airport and I for whatever reason I. think you'll appreciate this for. whatever reason I got flagged by their. by their like system get him angry you. know the system where you go in and you. have to stand there with your arms up. and then and it like smells you or. something I don't know I don't know what. it does really yeah so it somebody said. it is they take the smell if you just. email it to Satan or whatever well that. that scares me well I I walked out and. uh it it like it lit up both my crotch.

and my ass like on their like little. Monitor and the and the guy was like. sorry man we got to we got to we got to. patch you down and and he and he took me. aside and I think I got a trainee and he. was and he he was a little rough with me. man was he yeah and it was like it it. was a it was a a rough pat down and it. was was he using more Palms. are dener no he was he he told me he. walked me through this here's what I. think happened I think because he was a. trainee yeah he felt the need to like do.

a real good job and so he told me know. yeah he's like because my supervisor's. watching I gotta so this is where why. I'm telling the story is because like. I'm going to Grant this guy some Grace. and just say he's doing his best he's. got he's got a new job he's trying he's. he's trying really hard maybe too hard. yeah but he he did the thing where he. put his hands like this and he and he. patted me and he and he walked me. through in advance he told me what was. going to happen he also had to go up and. down my legs oh yeah that's a big one.

kind of yeah it's like if you just ask. me if something's on my legs I'll tell. you honestly yeah that's who I am yeah. he at one point he said do you want to. would you like me to take you someplace. private and I was like no no I really. don't I want I want to be out here met. online yeah yeah Craigslist it was great. yeah we met out in the woods he wanted. to. oh dude there used to be as strange. encounters on craigsl casual encounters. oh yeah yeah you could go on there and. just meet strangers in the middle of.

nowhere if you wanted to no thanks I did. it did you I wish I wouldn't have. probably but there was definitely some. different times you just didn't know you. know huh just gosh I I've only used. Craigslist to sell stuff and we didn't. meet in the woods we just met at my. house TBD brother you know there's more. to be there's more to know I'm sure um. these are your books right here why we. get mad those are for you oh thank you. you can give them away but you got to.

find someone named Theo to give them to. I sign oh thank you now they're. worthless that's super cool um how to. deal with angry people yeah what do you. tell people in this yeah so that book. it's it's broken into two sections it's. got one that really explains where anger. comes from where uh where um uh why. people get angry. some of those angry personality types we. were talking about and then it goes. through like 10 specific suggestions for. like how you can deal with angry people.

when you interact with them some of it's. like how do you deal with people that. you run into online some of it's how do. you stay calm part of it's you know do. you uh do you do you consider whether or. not you really screwed up like maybe the. problem is that you blew it and you need. to find ways to to make amends um so. it's uh things like that. is it is is apologizing ever a bad idea. do you think I mean what I usually. say about apologizing is that I don't.

think people should do it if they don't. mean it I mean I think you should mean. your apology yeah um and I think a lot. of times we you know so I I I I think. that one of the things we've done is by. especially with kids a lot of times we. force them to apologize we say like you. got to go say you're sorry and and you. know I think that actually sends a. message of well apologizing is what you. do to get out of trouble and that isn't. necessarily why we should apologize. right we should apologize if we're.

really sorry I actually don't want. people to apologize to me if they're not. actually sorry right then it's just a. meaningless gesture um and and and they. it's weird too they're still calling you. names but they're apologizing right. right and so like I'm sorry I called you. a name you little yes and then you're. like Jesus God just and it because so if. it doesn't lead to changed Behavior then. what's the what's the point yeah so I. think uh so I I think but but the flip. side of that is when a person is sorry.

they should apologize and they should do. it well you know like they should they. should do it effectively they should you. know tell people what they're sorry for. and they should they should make amends. in a way that suggests that it won't. happen again and I think that's where a. lot of people fall short is that it's. always a I'm sorry if or I'm sorry but. uh instead of just I'm sorry yeah what. can I do to make it up to you that sort. of thing mhm before you go I wanted to.

um I wanted to ask you why do people why. is road rage such a thing why does that. yeah it driving is just the absolute. perfect scenario for for leading to. anger everything about it I mean truly. if you were an evil genius and you. wanted to create a situation that was. going to make people mad you would. create that that looked like driving. right I got to get from here to here yep. I got I got goals and there's people in. the way of those goals those people who. are blocking them are Anonymous to me um.

so I can think or say whatever I want. right I can call him a total [ __ ]. idiot and uh and and I don't know they. might be a genius and I have no idea um. you there's all these Unwritten rules of. the road um I mean there's written rules. but then there's also like what speed. should you be going right I mean right. so there's vagueness in there too which. can yeah so um it's the thing I often. ask my students is what what speed. should you go on the interstate and.

because nobody says you know the speed. limit it's always 5 over 10 over 15 over. right it's and so if we have if you and. I are on the road and we have different. what's your answer to that my answer. probably 11 miles over okay so I'm. pretty close to that I'm like nine right. I I uh I I I tend to set the cruise at. nine over um so if if you and I. encounter each other on the road and. you're behind me well you get mad. because I'm not obeying your you know.

arbitrary rule right and I get mad. because you're a hazard right you're. trying to ride my bumper or whatever. because hey I'm already going fast. enough right yeah so these arbitrary. rules set people off um all of that ends. up and then on top of that it's it's. kind of a nerve-wracking situation we. don't actually think of we've been. driving long enough that we forget how. an provoking it actually is that but. it's dangerous right and um and so like. real harm can can can happen and so all.

of that tends to exacerbate that um that. that likelihood of getting angry when. people slow us down or get in the way um. and then add to it that the the. consequences are so significant of. people running people off the road when. they get mad people oh see yeah things. like that like that those consequences. we see those right I mean they're very. visible in fact we we have seen more. road rage related shootings in the last.

two years than ever before um that. people are are getting aggressive oh. yeah if I'm aggressive dude and and I. have a gun yep it's anybody's ball game. dude there we go very unfortunate very. senseless visitors witness deadly Myrtle. Beach Road Rage shooting oh yeah they. call called it murder beach now I think. gez every place is starting to be called. like murder something but yeah people. are just shooting they just um I had a.

friend in New Orleans that died in a. road rage it yeah it's crazy it's really. crazy but it is it's that intense moment. but as a driver if you can play it out. in your head like you were saying. earlier how do I want this to play out. yep the truth is you probably want that. guy to get a flat tire sometime the next. day or whatever that's fine but right. now you want get to where you're going. and honestly most of the time in those. situations I want to get as far from. that person as possible yeah like I. don't I don't want to interact with them.

yeah you can't be yeah following them. what is this somebody Road. raging oh oh oh this guy punched open a. back window that's hard to do yes that. is hard to. do. uhoh oh this seems like a. um oh she just Pop the Trunk. boy dang bro she's carrying oh she got a. hatchet what oh and he hit. her those are children that's dude.

that's wild but it is crazy that one guy. he acted like they were crazy for coming. after him after he went and hit their. window broke yeah but it's crazy you. would think you just leave if somebody. broke your window that dude yeah that. guy or whatever these incidents are. everywhere now I mean you you scroll. through I Ian that's the part of it so I. I had a weird uh interaction right. outside my my kid school one day where. um I was parked waiting for pickup and.

this woman came and and she parked her. car in front of me and she was she was. backing up and I got a little anxious. that she didn't realize how close she. was yeah and so I honked but it wasn't I. mean to me this is what a horn is for. actually right it's like to alert. someone like hey you're you might hit me. not not because I was mad I wasn't but. wow it made her mad like she was really. mad that I'd honked at her but what was. interesting is that she got out of the. car and she came over to talk to me and. she immediately started recording like.

she she took her phone out and started. like videoing the the situation I think. thinking that we might things might. escalate things might escalate and. wanting it captured if it if it did and. um I think that like which I I do wonder. sometimes what is do do phones and I. don't have an answer to this do phones. deescalate situations or do they. escalate you know like if if right once. the show is on now do I have to perform. right I I had a soccer coach come yell. at me one day I was not just me like.

yell at the fans at a game and I've I've. often I mean he was out of control I've. often wondered what would have happened. if I had just taken my phone out and. started recording would he have been. like uh oh I I should back away or would. he right or that just exacerbated yeah. and I yeah dude yeah wow yeah because. that's interesting it's almost like art. imitates life or whatever it's like. we're just like if we're watching. something violent happen and then we get. involved in something violent the first. thing to do then a lot of times wouldn't.

even be to help it would be to record. right right because that's what we just. saw if we just saw something recorded. right gosh it makes I mean and I I truly. wonder is that I mean there must be. circumstances where that's the smart. thing to do where that is going to. deescalate right um you know where. people are going to start to sort of say. like I don't want to be I don't want to. be famous yeah I think if someone is. probably urinating your yard or. something then you definitely I'm going. to record you and like oh I'm not going.

to be doing this on that camera on the. right camera I'm GNA put my pants up or. whatever but I think if it's somebody. who's just. like I don't know that's a good question. I think part of the question is how. rational are they in that moment right. you know I mean if they're if they might. be doing it as a safety mechanism yep. I'm G to make sure things don't get out. of control here right right yep. but yeah road rage commonly. characterized by aggressive driving is a. factor in more than 50% of all car. crashes that end in fatality according. to triaa in fact in a separate yearslong.

study Road raid episodes resulted in. about 30 deaths and 1,800 injuries per. year this you know it's funny I the one. of the things that I oftentimes talk to. people about it's like it's the so I did. a Ted Talk on anger a. few back a while ago and so like the. premise of that talk is that anger is. good for you there it is um uh uh that. anger's like good for you in all these. different ways one circumstance that I. would not Advocate anger is is behind.

the wheel right it's just it it feels. like there's no good outcome that it it. just puts you in a dangerous spot and. better to better to just back away and. and let it go yeah let it go yeah what. are good ways that anger what is when is. anger healthy yeah I mean I think it's a. lot of it is um you know if you grant. the premise that that unfairness exists. in the world that there are injustices. in the world and and I do grant that. premise then you know feeling anger uh.

as a uh is totally natural and healthy. and um it's what we do with it that is. that is most Reon mean anger like any. emotion it exists in us for because of. our evolutionary history right it exists. in us because it it um encouraged our. ancestors to like fight back and so it. was a survival mechanism and so from. that perspective it's still valuable so. the same way you know I get thirsty and.

I get a sip of. water anger motivates me to confront. Injustice right and you're going to need. it too I mean if they didn't if we got. rid of anger completely would be then. what if there were tyranny or something. we'd never be able to stand up to it you. know or what if there were yeah I mean. anger is behind all these social. movements in in really meaningful ways. right and now we were talking earlier. about protests and social media that um. but anger is what's motivating most of.

those in oftentimes in in in healthy. ways um yeah. yeah. um Dr Ryan Martin I'm trying to think of. anything else we can cover I think we. got a pretty good yeah we went from. flushing the toilet before you before. you're done peeing all the way to. getting padded down at the by TSA agent. by an overly aggressive TSA agent I. think we covered a lot that's a lot of. ground um Dr Ryan Martin thank you so.

much man for coming in yeah thank you. man this has been a absolute treat it's. been great talking to you and it's been. fun being being here yeah appreciate it. man it's been interesting to just learn. more a a little bit about anger and the. thing that has helped me at times is. that moment of thinking how do I want. this to play out yep that's good if I. can let that get me at that moment when. you're about to open the card or. whatever you know you're about to go in. the other room and say something how do. I want this evening to play out this. afternoon this next hour this next week.

yep yeah I yeah I agree I mean I think. that like that has to be thinking about. that outcome you want what is your. desired outcome in any situation yeah is. so important and then because the next. question is well then how do I get there. right what is the thing I have to do do. to accomplish this and and you know and. now the the second piece is being having. the presence of mind to deescalate.

yourself in order to have that thought. and be intentional about that right yeah. if you can get to that thought you're. probably going to be okay right I've. noticed that for myself if I can get to. that thought I'm probably going to be. okay because most of the time I'm going. to choose yeah let's find a way to get. this let's find a way to just get. through this yep and and I think for. people who have real genuine anger. problems they're they're not able to get. to that thought you know that they're so. escalated in the moment it's this.

righteous anger that is driving. everything they're thinking about and. they're not able to to to to get to the. place of okay what's the rational. healthy thing to do right now yeah CU I. think preserving your peace is really. key I mean I there's just everything's. loud everywhere there's just everything. is like signaling or letting you no. notific just never ending now I think. just holding on to your peace and and if. you can remember that how do I want this. to end how do I really want this to end.

it's really good for any situation. honestly it's it's good for it's good. for the the small day-to-day. interactions it's good for big life. goals yeah business it's like if you're. calling to make a deal with somebody. maybe they don't want the deal or maybe. it's not but do you want to do deals. with them for the next 10 years what do. you how do you want things to look long. term right you know do you need to be. you know does the price need to be that. can it be a different price over five. years and and you still have a great. business relationship you know um yep. yeah do you have to win this argument do.

you have to defeat that Pontiac Firebird. that just flipped you off dude right you. probably don't probably not it probably. doesn't matter in the long run that you. that you win that but how do you get. through it today how do. you reach out to your SP if you're angry. how do you reach out to your spouse and. just say something nice MH just cuz you. know it's going to make it better when. you guys get home or when you see each. other again so they're not going to have. a tough day right you know how do you. even if you're mad at your girlfriend or.

something say. look everything will be okay you. know yep um thinking. through to those long-term goals what do. you how do you want this situation to be. and then and then charting the path to. get there I think honestly for a lot of. people the the the challenge is that. they haven't they are able necessarily. or or haven't spent enough time thinking. about that destination you know and and. what and and being really intentional. about this is this is the outcome I want.

um this is the outcome I want today this. is the outcome I want next week and so. this is the outcome I want for this this. drive to work right is to get there. safely and once you start having that. thought then it it helps you helps you. stop diverging into St stupid directions. yeah yeah sometimes I don't have that. and so then I'm at the whims or whatever. right you know sometimes I'm just a. little bit aimless which is okay. but but.

uh but it can be risky um Dr Ryan Martin. thank you so much for coming in man you. bet thanks so much for having me this. has been a treat finish yeah I've been. dealing with some anger and so just. excited to get to talk about it and um. and just think about it so thank you for. sharing your knowledge yeah you bet. thanks man now I'm just floating on thee. and I feel I'm falling like these leaves. I must be. Cornerstone oh but when I reach that.

ground I'll share this piece of mind I. found I can feel it in my Bon. [Music].