AI CEO Alexandr Wang | This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von #563

I want to let you know we've restocked. all your favorites on the merch site. everything is in stock you can show up. the oon. store.com and thank you so much for the. support I have some new tour dates to. tell you about I'll be in Chicago. Illinois on April 24th at the Wind Trust. Arena Fort Wayne Indiana on April 26 at. the Allen County war memorial coliseum. in Miami Florida on May 10th at the casa.

Center get your tickets early starting. Wednesday February 19th at 10:00 a.m. with pre-sale code Rat King we also have. tickets remaining in East Lancing. Victoria BC in the Canada College. Station belon Texas Oxford Mississippi. Tuscaloosa Alabama Nashville Tennessee. Winnipeg in the Canada and Calgary in. the Canada all tickets at theovon.

/ur today's guest is from Los Alamos New. Mexico he's a leader in the world of. Business and Technology he's an. entrepreneur he started scale AI a. company recently valued at $4. billion he started it when he was only. 19 and at 24 he became the youngest. self-made billionaire in the world we. talk about his company the future of AI. and the role it plays plays in our human.

existence this was super educational for. me I hope it is for you I'm grateful for. his time today's guest is Mr Alexander. [Music]. Wang. [Applause]. singing Alexander Wang man thanks for. hanging out bro yeah thanks for having.

me yeah good to see you dude last time. was at the uh inauguration yeah what did. you think of that like what were your. thoughts after you left um because you. and I ended up we like left out of there. and then went and got lunch together. which was kind of crazy it was uh there. was a lot going on yeah it was a were. you there the whole weekend no I just. got there uh the day the morning of the. inauguration were you there the whole. weekend I was there the whole weekend. yeah no I mean I think at least for what. we do like for AI the uh the new. Administration is really excited about. it and wants to make sure that we we get. it right as a country so um that was all.

great but it was kind of a crazy the. whole like event like everything was. pretty crazy I don't know what you think. I mean when I saw Conor McGregor show up. that's when I was like [ __ ] is where are. we it f that's what like the most. bizarre I mean you were there Sam mman. was there I was just like it was like. what happened here um and part of that. CU Alex bruer witz you know totally yeah. I mean it's all because of him that we. all went but just the fact that he would. bring these people together it kind of.

makes you question crossover it's like. uh it's like in in those like TV shows. when you have those crossover episodes. yeah that's kind of what it felt like oh. yeah when like the Harlem Globe trods. and it would be like them versus like um. The Care Bears or or whatever would show. up exactly like this yeah this seems um. yeah some. cross-pollination um yeah what' you. think when Connor showed up was that. strange to see him like was there. somebody you thought that was Str like. unique to see there for you uh well yeah. I mean you Connor like the the the the.

Pauls I don't know the whole the whole. thing was pretty uh pretty crazy for me. I see Sam all the time and I see uh I. see some of the tech people all the time. I mean it was funny crossover and it was. obviously like so many people flew in to. be able to go to like the outdoor. inauguration right and so I mean there. were so many people in the we ran into. them obviously but like there were so. many people in DC uh who were just. around for the inauguration so it was a. yeah I didn't even think about that all. there was a couple hundred thousand. people probably just got kind of. displaced in a way and suddenly they're. just bars or whatever just like buying.

like there was like people I saw walking. just adult onesies and [ __ ] that said. Trump on the that's crazy [ __ ] yeah um. yeah thanks for coming in man I'm. excited to learn about AI I know that. that's a world that you're in you're in. the tech Universe um and you you're from. New Mexico right yeah and so when you. grew up there did you have like a strong. sense of like science and technology was. that like part of your world like did. your parents like lead you into that. like what was just just some of your.

youth like there yeah so uh both my. parents are physicists and there's a. damn I grew up in this town called lalos. where there's a there's a there's a. National Lab there um did you watch. Oppenheimer yeah yeah so the so all the. New Mexico shots in Oppenheimer that's. exactly where I grew up oh Dam so it was. like originally where all the scientists. came together and and did all the work. in the atomic bomb and there's still. this huge lab that's basically the. everybody I knew effectively like their. par parents worked at the lab or Were.

Somehow affiliate with the lab it's like. Neville over there huh Neville yeah. that's is that is it scary like that it. was you know it is it add a level of. mystery like is your prom like last. night under the stars or something like. there's uh there's this one Museum well. the funny thing is like first you hear. you hear this you learn the story of the. atomic bomb and the Manhattan Project. like basically every year growing up. because there's always like a day or a. few days where you know there's a. substitute teacher and they just they. just play the videos so you're just like.

yeah an alcoholic or something yeah uh a. recreational user was use that term. that's crazy that that just like every. year you guys have like yeah just like. blast it Thursdays or whatever and it's. just yeah you're just learning you're. learning again about the Manhattan. Project and then there's a little. there's a little Museum in town uh which. is like you walk through and there's. like a a life-size replica of the nukes. um so it's it's pretty wild yeah and.

where did they drop the atomic bombs on. they dropped them on Asia right. Hiroshima they yeah they dropped them uh. on uh in in Japan yeah Hiroshima and. Nagasaki is it is it crazy being like. semi Asia part Asian uh yeah yeah my uh. my parents are Chinese oh nice man is it. crazy being Asian and then having that H. happen to Asian people with the bomb. like is that a weird thing there it's. nothing uh no I don't think so I mean I. think the thing is like you know I uh so. there weren't I didn't grow up with very.

many Asians cuz the in that town it was. um you know it's it it's in New Mexico. there's very few Asians in New Mexico so. I was one of the only Asian kids in my. class growing up and so um I didn't. think that much about it honestly but. then like uh but it is super weird you. know you grow up and you learn about. this very advanced technology that had. this like really really big impact on. the world and I think that shaped yeah. it's like the scientific Jon Jones over.

there really he's New Mexican isn't he. he's he lives in Albuquerque yeah oh he. does I think he does yeah oh sweet man. yeah oh yeah that so you so you're there. there's this there's this energy always. there of this creation and so probably. the possibility of creation maybe was. always in the air I'm just wondering. like how did you get formed kind of you. know like what's your origin story kind. of it was super scientific cuz cuz you. know there was all these there were all. these like presentations around what. were the new kinds of science that were. going on at the lab so there there's all. these chemistry experiments and these.

different like earth science experiments. and uh physics experiments um and my mom. studied like plasma and like pla how. plasma you know worked inside of stars. and stuff like that so it was just the. wildest stuff and you would talk to. people's par people you like I would. talk to my classmates or I talk to their. parents about what they're working on. was always some crazy science thing so. that was wow that was really cool cuz. cuz everybody.

in that town basically is they're all. working on some kind of crazy scientific. thing and so you kind of I mean I feel. like I grew up feeling like you know. anything was possible in that way like. yeah cuz the rest of us in other. communities shitty communities or. whatever we're just making that volcano. whatever you know what I'm saying we're. doing like Grassroots level [ __ ] you. know um dang that's got to be wild so. every you see somebody just sneaking. behind an alley and buying a bit of. uranium and [ __ ] like that in your.

neighborhood that's got to be kind of. unique I remember there was someone from. our town who did uh who did a science. fair project called um it's called like. Great Balls of plasma and for the. science literally for the science fair. this was in like high school for the. science fair they made like huge balls. of plasma in their garage and I was like. what the heck like this is we're all. just doing this in in high school damn. so did you feel competitive or did you. just feel like hyper capable like did.

you feel like kind of advanced just in. your studies like when you were young. like did you in class you like some of. this stuff's kind of coming easy to me I. ended up what what I did is um there was. a I ended up getting really competitive. about math in particular yeah. and so uh so my sport was math which is. kind of crazy alra son I know I feel you. um and it was because when I was in. Middle School when I was in sixth grade. there was this One MA competition where.

if you if you got top four in the state. state of New Mexico then you would get. an all expense paid trip to Disney World. and uh and I remember as a sixth grader. like that was the most motivating thing. I could possibly imagine was like an all. expense paid trip to Disney World yeah. um and then uh did you win it I got I. won it I got fourth place so I snuck in. there uh snuck in I uh and then I went. to and then we went to Florida to Disney. World and I uh I hadn't traveled like I.

didn't travel around too much growing up. like I mostly was in New Mexico and we. did some road trips around the Southwest. so I remember getting to Florida and it. was extremely humid it was like it I. never felt what humidity felt like when. I landed in Florida I was like oh this. feels bad and then I it is dude yeah it. definitely does yeah it's funny cuz I. grew up in humid dude like you would. like you try to shake somebody's hand. you couldn't even land it because it was.

just not enough viscos just too much. Lube in a handshake You' sit there for. 10 minutes trying to land a handshake. you know everybody was always dripping. you know all the time people you always. thought they were scared or something or. they were kind of geeked up off a gas. station dope or something but people. were just it was humid yeah you get. really humid over there so then I became. so then I became a mathlete uh that was. like a big part of my identity was being. a mathlete and I would and you have to. wear a vest like what do you guys do is. there an is there a uniform for that or. well you you need a you have a.

calculator so everyone had their. favorite calculator okay you got that. Draco on you baby I feel you keep. strapped you stay strapped at that thing. and then uh but uh but outside that not. really I mean like everyone their. favorite like is pencil you know you. either pencil your calculator that was. your gear and uh but yeah no I I was I. was like a a nationally ranked mathlete. for uh for middle school high school. that was my that that was my jam yeah. and is it what says math Sur like is. there wow that's crazy dude so you go to.

what are there competitions you go to. with that there's competitions yeah. there's like there's like state level. competitions there's National level. competitions there's like these summer. camps math Camp I went to math Camp a. bunch of times um where you where you. convene with like-minded mathletes oh. damn okay wow [ __ ] Wizards in the. park uh couple dudes [ __ ] fighting. over a common denominator in the lobby. that's crazy bro but then you're but.

just like any other sport like you're. like it's competitive you know you got. to like you got to win and uh and so so. you're chummy with everyone but you're. also like we like who's going to win you. know yeah no dude competition's amazing. man that's one thing is too that's so. nice I think about when you're young is. like if you're involved in a sport or a. group or whatever it was um just the. just that chance to be competitive you. know yeah what what were like some of. the competitions at the math thing like. what's a what's a math competition like. when you get there so you uh the ones in.

the middle school middle school were. actually more fun cuz there's like. there's almost like a Jeopardy style. buzzer competition and stuff like that. but uh but in high once you get to high. school it's just uh you just take a test. and you just it's like the the biggest. one in America is called the yimo uh. bring it up usmo. Uso okay and uh and it's like people all. around the country take this test uh and. there's a United States of American.

mathematical Olympiad okay there you go. um okay a participant must be either US. citizen or legal resent us um okay okay. go on and then you uh and then it's a. 9-h hour test damn it's split over two. days it's nine hours you you it's four. and a half hours and it's nine hours and. you have six problems so it's kind of. nerve-wracking and you get in there you. have 4 and 1 half hours the first day. four and a half hours the second day um. and can you cheat in between the day can. you just go home and no you cuz you only.

get three questions the first day and. then you only get three questions the. next day wow they figed it out I. remember the first time I took it I was. in I think I was uh I was in eighth. grade first time I took it and I like I. was like so nervous and I just I like. brought a thermos full of coffee and I. drank so much coffee that like those 4. and 1 half hours felt like like year it. was like I was so jittery the whole time. it was uh it was crazy dang he out there. rattling brother oh integers make me.

rattle brother I feel you on that dude. so that's pretty so so so you're. competitive and so you get out of there. and you're obviously I guess um admired. in the world of math probably or that's. that's like a thing that like uh that. you can point that that's like a pin. that you a feather in your cap so that. that helps you get into um MIT right yep. okay so then uh yeah in MIT on the MIT. admissions they ask for your like. competitive math scores.

so if you're so so you knew a lot of. kids going there probably because it was. tons of kids yeah yeah tons of kids it. was like a reunion it was like math Camp. reunion damn cuz I was wondering where. all y'all were at dude because we were. doing some other [ __ ] you know what I'm. saying yeah we were not God that's where. all the smart kids were that's. fascinating man and so then uh yeah I. was at MIT and then uh MIT is like a. really intense school because they you. know the classes they don't [ __ ] around. with they just really like they load you. up with tons of work and most of the.

time you have you you like they load you. up with like huge amounts of work and. they you know you you uh you don't. really know what's going on initially. and so you're just kind of like you're. just trying to make it through but uh. you know there's this motto that uh that. Mi has called uh. ihtfp which uh among the students stands. for I hate this [ __ ] place oh yeah. it's heavy huh yeah but then but then. the school when you go they tell you oh. it stands for um I've truly found. Paradise so oh so a couple differences.

of opinion yeah yeah damn so it's so. it's really severe there there's a lot. of work they load you down out of the. gate you do you do a lot of work uh but. it's it's kind of awesome I mean because. because I think the students really band. together like you like instead of like I. think uh instead of it being competitive. really MIT is much more about like. everybody kind of like coming together. working on problems together working on. homework together and just kind of like. making through together um um what's. that social life like there like are you.

dating you going to parties what's that. like for you at that time it's a bunch. of parties because people like MIT. there's a lot of people who like. tinkering with gadgets so like tinkering. with like you know lights and big. speakers and DJ sets and all this stuff. so actually the parties are pretty good. cuz they're like the production value is. high the production quality is high. damn and then what about when the. science kids come through the lab dogs. are they bringing are people making like. unique drug was there like design. designer drugs that are being created by.

actual people like just because you know. what I'm saying like my friends in. college none of us would know how to do. that but there may be somebody at a. smart at a more prestigious school that. would know how was that a thing even or. is that just there's one there was one. part of the campus called East Campus um. where it was like it was more Fringe and. so there was like at one point in the. school year they would in their. Courtyard they would build a gigantic. catapult like a huge catapult. like a trebet yeah what's the difference.

I don't know what the difference yeah. let's get the difference there cuz. people need to know this anyway people. have for decades now people have been a. trebuchet has a like a rope attached to. the end of it that flings it where a. catapult just launches it no it was a. catapult then okay like a big cuz. there's a big Co there was a big like. like ice cream scooper oh yeah looking. thing that would like that would fling. it and what are they just flinging at it. all into the rest of the camp they would. fling stuff into the river which I don't. think now that I'm thinking about I feel. like I know what the yeah no these giant.

this giant like catapult things um yeah. and so this was like a event that would. go on and people would kind of Rave. there or what are you saying yeah they. would do this they would do other things. they were like they were into they would. like build a lot of stuff over there um. and there would be like people that. ended up at Burning Man later on yes yes. that was the burning that was core. Burning Man like there was a there was a. Satanic ritual floor oh yeah yeah like a. lot of lot of like it's Fringe cool it's. cool right um but uh but there yeah so.

there's all these parties we we bragged. at MIT that uh you know people from all. the neighboring schools cuz Boston is a. huge college town like tons of tons. Boston is an amazing City yeah but no. MIT was fun but I was only there I was. at MIT for one year right and you. dropped out is that safe to say okay you. dropped out and then you you got into AI. into the AI world is that kind of a safe. bridge to say yeah yeah yeah okay is. there and I want to ask this because I. know Mark Zuckerberg dropped out of. college you dropped out of college both.

you guys have had success in Tech and. kind of you know forward thinking that. sort of uh World um is there something. in college that you felt like didn't. nurture you or did you just feel like. this isn't the place for me do you feel. like college doesn't nurture a certain. type of thinker or was it just a. personal choice I think for me it was. like um I was just feeling really. impatient. um and I don't really know why really.

but I remember like I remember I was in. school the first year I it was it was. really fun and and I really enjoyed it. but then I remember you know this in the. year when I was at MIT was one of the. first like it was like one of the early. big moments in AI because it was um I. don't even remember this but there was. an AI that beat uh the world champion at. go um this was in. 2015 which when I was in college at go. and that was a game yeah go it's like a.

it's like a big checkerboard with like. white and black Stones it's like uh um. and it was uh yeah this this game. alphago versus Lisa do so alphao versus. leead all also known as the Deep M. challenge match was a five-game go match. between top go player lisad all and. Alpha go a computer go program developed. by Deep Mind played in Soul South Korea. between 9 and 15 between N9 and 9th and. 15th of March 2016 Al confusing how.

that's written it is very confusing huh. you think that we got. a um alphago won all but the fourth game. all games were won by resignation the. match has been compared with the. historic chess match between deep blue. and Gary uh Kasparov huh the winner of. the match was slated to win $1 million. since Alpha go1 Google Deep Mind stated. that the prize will be donated to. Charities including UNICEF and US Aid. that's just a joke that's this um but. Lee received $150,000 for playing so.

this was a big moment because this had. never kind of happened before never. happened yeah and it was it was a big. moment for uh for AI it was like oh wow. this stuff is like it's really happening. and so then this happened in March and I. guess yeah I dropped out starting my. company in May so I guess two months. after this I was I was uh yeah that's. what the game looks like um oh I've I've. played this game before it's honestly. it's a really uh. like I'm not very good at the game it's.

a little more fun than playing chess. unless you're like you know in like. renaissance fair board games or whatever. yeah yeah um okay so now we got you. you're loose dude you're out of the. school and you're in the world you see. the did that match did realizing that. kind of like spurn you to want to leave. school or did was that just something. that happened around the same time it it. kind of did basically it was it was I. remember feeling like oh wow AI it's. happening and uh this was back in 2016. so like 88 n years ago okay and then um.

I felt like I had to you know basically. that that inspired me to start my. company um and I moved I basically went. straight from I remember this I I flew. straight from uh Boston to San Francisco. and then started the company basically. um and that's scale AI scale AI okay and. so did you had you been following AI. like what are your kind of Jour or you. just like knew like this is where it's. going like you just felt there was.

something you an instinct that you. trusted or like because that's a big. thing to do I was stuck so I took all. the AI classes at MIT okay so you. already learning a lot about it yep and. then there was one class where um you. had to like in all these classes you had. to do side projects or final projects of. some kind and in one of them I wanted to. build a um like a camera inside my. refrigerator that would tell me when my. roommates were stealing my food Wang boy. catching them. Wang boy wow and uh but then so I worked.

on that and then it was there was one. moment where where uh I was like there. was like there was a moment that clicked. where I was trying to build this thing. and then there was one step that was. like too easy I was like whoa that just. worked right there and then that. happened and then the the go match. happened and I was like this this stuff. is happening and so I uh did you ever. Market those refrigerators you ever. actually create that I didn't Market. them no I could totally see that bro. there's a refrigerator every dorm has it.

where there's a camera built in and you. just get you're you get a notification. on your phone you know you're like damn. adon's got my hummus you know but you. got video of him right there dude that's. a great idea I love that that was uh. that was that was College me yeah that. okay so Alexander Wang he's free in the. world now he's headed to San Francisco. he's aied up he feels the energy he's. motivated by some of the classes he took. um he's motivated by seeing that AI is.

starting to actually overtake humans. right or be able to compete with actual. human thinking with the chess match yeah. I would the way I would think about it. or the way I thought about the time was. like this is this is becoming um I you. know people have been talking about AI. for decades like it's kind of been. always been one of these things that um. people have have said oh it's going to. happen but it never really was happening. and it felt like it was you know was. really about to happen about artificial. intelligence yeah yeah yeah cuz I've. always heard about AR arcial. intelligence that's what I have so I've.

always been like um no you you got you. have real intelligence not artificial. real intelligence I don't I mean I think. it's a it's probably a mix but I see. what you're saying you know I dude you. know what I thought of the other day it. was like What if they had like a Mexican. version and it was like Hey. I I don't know if that's a good that's a. good joke or not but thank you it's a. nice laugh. um this show is sponsored by better help. what are some of your relationship green. flags that's a good question what are.

things you notice in your relationship. that are like yes this is positive this. is good we're headed in the right. direction we often hear about the red. flags we should avoid but what if we. focused more on looking for green flags. in friends and partners if you're not. sure what they look like therapy can. help you identify green flags actively. practice them in your relationships and. embody the green flag energy yourself.

I've personally benefited from therapy. over the years I think one of the things. it's helped me with is just noticing. some of my patterns noticing when I let. something. small um turn into something big and. being able to cut it off at the past so. it doesn't happen. anymore better help can help you better. help is fully online making therapy. affordable and convenient serving over 5. million people worldwide discover your. relationship's green flags with.

betterhelp visit betterhelp.com. Theo to get 10% off your first month. that's betterhelp. hp.com. tho are you struggling to keep your. website and digital marketing up toate. while running your business now you can. relax and binge on unlimited web design. services with. modify enjoy unlimited support a quick.

turnaround and your own designated. designer modify has done my website for. years and they're incredible sign up. with modify today they make life easier. and business better visit modify. comom Theo that's M. oy.com. tho for 50% off the last website you'll. ever. need that's modify.

comom. Theo um what is AI yeah so so AI is all. about you know basically programming. computers to be able to start thinking. like humans so you know traditional. computer programming uh you know it's. pretty it's pretty barebones is not very. smart and so AI is all about can you. have can you build algorithms that start. to be able able to think like people and.

and replicate some of the like our. brains are these incredible incredible. things you know and that's that's. Evolution that's just biology that. created our brains um and so it's all. about how can we how can we build. something similar to that or replicate. it um using using computers and machines. and so the whole you know the the the. whole modern AI um era really started. around um an area called computer vision. but it was like how can we first get um.

computers to see like uh like humans do. so one of the very first so you know one. of the very first AI projects was this. thing called imag net um imag net and. later Alex net and it was basically can. you get computer programs to like given. a photo to tell you what's in that photo. I see so just like a human would like if. you showed them this you're starting to. train them to um have a.

perspective yeah train them to well. actually originally like you could like. let's say you took a photo of this of. this bottle a machine wouldn't even be. able to tell you what's in the photo it. would just know what the pixels were but. it wouldn't be able to tell you like oh. there's a bottle in that in that photo. so the you know one of the first AI. breakthroughs was when YouTube um built. an algorithm that could tell when there. were cats in their videos and that was. like this you know in like 2012 over. 2011 this was like this mindblowing.

breakthrough that you could like figure. out you could like use an algorithm to. figure out when there was a cat inside a. inside a video and so AI it started. pretty simply with just how do we. replicate you know um Vision like how do. you replicate like our basically the. fact that our eyes and our brains can. like process all this imagery coming in. and that really led to I think one of. the first major use cases of AI which is. self-driving cars. so this was in when we when I started.

the company in 2016 self-driving cars. were all the rage because um you know it. was you know there were all these like. Skunk Works projects when you started. scale AI you mean yeah when I started. scale a you when you kind of got into AI. at that time self-driving cars are the. are the most popular things yeah yep. that was all the rage and so it was it. was all about can you know um can we. start building algorithms that can drive. a car like a human would and do it. safely and do it you know more. efficiently and that way instead of you.

that was that was one of the first major. areas okay and then um now you know the. whole the whole industry has moved so. fast but then all of a sudden we got. chat GPT and we got you know more. advanced stuff more recently that that. is able to talk like a human or sort of. think like a human and so it's really. come pretty far recently but all of it. is about how do you you build algorithms. how do you use machines to be able to. think like a person okay and is it a pro. like say if I opened a door like like oh.

we keep the AI in there is it a computer. is it a program is it a hard drive like. what okay what is that yeah yeah so. there's two parts there's two parts to. it so the first part is you need really. Advanced chips so you need like uh uh. like these they're called gpus or. sometimes called tpus or you know. there's a lot of different words for it. but you need like the most advanced. computer chips in the world okay and.

they how big is each one do you know uh. like is it or can you measure it like. that they I mean the biggest ones are. actually like the whole chips are like. you know pretty but they they're like a. they're like a like a wafer kind of. thing but then you um you put a lot of. them all together okay so these uh yeah. yeah yeah exactly um these like uh these. chips and the the biggest ones are are. yeah exactly that's a little one that's. a little one there's big ones okay um.

but these are the so this is the these. are the brain cells of it yep these are. these are the brains behind it yeah so. then um yeah exactly these are some. those are some big ones so then so you. have to have a lot of these chips so you. need a ton of these chips and that's. that's kind of the the like uh that's. the physical presence and then um and. then by the way they take a huge amount. of energy they're really uh they because. they have you have to do a lot of you. know calculations and there's a lot of. math that has has to happen on them and. so um and you have you have giant.

basically data centers buildings full of. like tons and tons of those chips just. in giant rows like how big are we. talking warehouses yeah the biggest one. I mean like um like elon's data center. Colossus is like uh I mean it's probably. more than a million it's definitely more. than a million square feet I mean it's. like just huge really yeah yeah look up. Colossus uh I've never known this yeah. uh yeah yeah that that uh you see that. building with the sunset second row yeah.

yeah there you go there or uh the one to. the left oh no yeah there you go that. one yeah look it's like a huge ass. building what it's huge and all of. that's just filled with chips um have. you ever been in there I haven't been in. that one but i' I've been in some of. these and it's just and this is what it. looks like inside yeah basically yeah so. it's just rows and rows of chips so no. plants or anything yeah no no plants no. plants it gets hot in there I bet um so. the first part is just the the that's.

the physical presence and then the. second part are the algorithms so then. you have like on top of those chips you. have you have software that that's. running and the the algorithms are just. all are like what you actually are. telling what's the math that you're. telling to happen on the chips and those. algorithms are you know some of the you. know most complicated algorithms that. humans have ever come up with and that's. kind of the that's kind of the software. part that's kind of the that's the part. that like you know exists on the.

Internet or you download or whatnot and. then it has to be run on these like huge. warehouses of giant of giant ships okay. um so when someone goes to like scale AI. or chat GPT these are all AI interfaces. or what are they they're yeah so so um. yeah like chat GPT is a is a way to be. able to uh talk to basically you can. talk to the algorithm so you can start. interacting directly with algorithm you. can see how the algorithm is thinking um.

so you could say to this um can you. describe the weather today exactly and. if you said that to five different AI. company or AI companies basically or AI. algorithms different different AI. systems yeah so if you said this five. different AI systems you might get a. little bit of a varied answer little bit. yeah you'll get you'll get because they. all are trying to have their own style. and have their own vibe to it. interesting and then what we do what. what's scale AI is all about is we've. kind of built the uh almost like the.

Uber of AI so a lot of what we're trying. to do is how do we so how do we help. produce data that is improving these. algorithms and just like how Uber. there's okay you're losing me there a. little yeah yeah it's okay but uh if I. slow down then if if if you're losing me. I but so explain that to me a little bit. clearer for me yeah yeah so so okay so. with these algorithms um one key. ingredient for these algorithms is dat. so okay so you have the chips and.

everything that are that are storing all. the information y that are storing the. data yep and then you have the. algorithms that are helping mediate. between the user and the data Yeah so. basically you kind of have yeah you have. three you have three key pieces okay so. you have the uh you have the. computational virus with the chips you. have the chips you have the data which. is like just tons and tons of data that. that's where the algorithms are learning. the patterns from Okay so these. algorithms they aren't just like they. don't just learn to talk randomly they.

learn it from learning to talk from how. humans talk right so you need tons and. tons of data and then you have the. algorithms which uh learn from all that. data and then they run on top of the. chips got it um so then one of the big. challenges in the industry is okay how. are you going to produce all this data. and so um uh this is like how are you. going to get data for your yeah system. like how do you the best data how do. exactly how do you build how do you.

build all that data and how do you do. that um in the most effective way how do. you build new data so and clean data. because what if you get a bunch of data. in there that's just a bunch of. advertisements and [ __ ] will that. affect the output 100% yeah that. definitely affects the the output so. this whole data so data is is you know. some people say like data is the new oil. or data is the new gold like data is. really really valuable because it's it's. how the algorithms are learning. everything that they're learning like. any anything that the algorithms know or.

learn or say or do all that has to come. from the data that goes into it okay so. so if I ask if I ask a system an AI. system a question or ask it to help me. with something help me to to design. something or to curate an idea it's. going to use the data that it has within. it y to respond to me and help me uh and. help give me an answer that I can use. and it's only and the data it has in it. is only based on the data that um is put.

into it exactly yeah yeah so then so. yeah it's kind of um so then we don't. you know we don't spend enough time. talking about where does all you know. how are you going to get this data and. how are you going to keep making new. data so the the angle that we took at. scale was to kind of um turn this into. an opportunity for people so um we're. you know we're kind of like the Uber for. AI so just like how Uber you have you. know Riders and drivers for us we have.

uh you know we have the AI systems you. know the algorithms that need data and. then we have um a community of people a. network of people who help produce the. data that go into the systems and they. get paid to do that ah so they're almost. data farming like creating good data or. creating good data exactly so and it's. and it's huge it's like uh so we do this. through um our platform called outlier. okay and uh uh outlier last year uh.

people contributors we call them. contributors on outlier earned about. $500 million total across everybody um. in the US that's across 9,000 different. towns um and uh so it create a lot of. jobs for people a lot of jobs okay and. so what would um okay so scale was your. company scale it's an AI system yep is. that right so we uh yeah I mean the yes. scale AI is an AI system y okay and then. outlier yep is a separate company that's.

works with it yep and that is where you. are um hiring people we yeah we we. basically to pull in data yeah we we. build this platform that anybody you. know a lot of people all frankly all. around the world but Americans too can. log on and uh and help build data that. goes into the algorithms and get paid to. do so wow yeah so how and and how does a. user do that like what is an example of.

somebody who's helping build data for an. AI database yeah let's say you're a. nurse like you're a nurse with like tons. of tons of experience so you know a lot. about how to take care of people um and. uh take care of of people who are sick. or you know have issues and whatnot and. uh so you you could log onto the system. and and this and our platform and you. could see that the algorithm is you know. let's say you ask the algorithm like hey. I have a you know I have a pain in my in. my stomach what should I do and you.

notice that the algorithm says the wrong. thing like the algorithm says oh just. you know hang out and and you know it'll. go it'll go away and you know as a nurse. like that's wrong like I you know you. have to you have to go to the emergency. room because you might have appendicitis. or you might have you know you might. have something really bad and so you. would as a nurse you would go in and. You' basically correct all these. mistakes that the AI system has and then. that would then feed it back into the. algorithm so that smarter the next time. so it's kind of this this continual.

process of and there's versions of that. for whatever your expertise is or. whatever you know you know more about. than anything everything everything. exactly so and so people get paid for. that yeah yeah they get paid and how do. you know if their information is. valuable or not uh well we so we don't. want spam obviously so we we we have a. lot of systems to make sure that people. aren't spamming and that like you're. saying it's not it's not you know it's. not garbage in that's going into the. into the algorithms um so we have you.

know we have kind of like people check. the work of other people to make sure. that the AI systems are really good and. we have some like automated systems that. that check this stuff but uh but for the. most part it's it's like it's really. broad like we want experts in anything. everything shellfish train tracks. whatever. gelatin everything childhood death or. whatever yeah totally Stars galaxies. whatever animals big animals yeah damn. so wow so it's kind of like your data is.

almost like an ocean or a body of water. and you different places are going to be. able to keep their body water cleaner or. dirtier and different infections could. get in different spyware all types of. stuff so and if you have the really a. clean body of water then you're going to. be able to offer a clean data or a. certain type of data to um people who. are using your AI platform ex does that. make sense or not yeah yeah totally and. our job is like how do we make sure that. this body of water is as clean as.

possible and we fill it up as much as. possible that it has as much information. about everything across the globe wow so. is there almost a a race for information. right now in a weird way or no is that. not it there a little bit Yeah I think. that there's a well there's a race for. how are different AI systems competing. against each other and sorry to. interrupt you yeah no no so the there's. a there's it's it goes back to the three. things I mentioned so there's kind of. like three dimensions that that they're. all competing against one another one is.

um chips so who could who has the most. advanced chips who is the the biggest. buildings of chips like who has the most. chips um that they're utilizing uh data. so the kind of body of water whose body. of water is better cleaner you know uh. healthiest biggest Etc and then the last. is algorithms so who's and this is where. the scientists really come in it's like. okay who's coming up with the cleverest. algorithms or who has like a trick on an. algorithm that somebody else doesn't. have like who's doing that to basically.

um make the AI learn better off of the. data that it has wow God I'm in the. future right now that's so w man it's. just it's so crazy and I think AI scares. people because the future scares people. right it's like that's one of the. scariest things sometimes is the future. so I think a lot of times people you. associate um cuz a lot of times when. people mention AI there's a little bit. of fear it seems like from people um. there's fear that it's going to take. jobs there's fear that it's going to. take over um the our ability to think.

for ourselves yeah there's just kind of. some general uncertainty there like is. just and it kind of feels like fear a. lot of times but a lot of times fear is. just a lack of knowledge right um and. not a lack of knowledge because you. didn't want to know just because you. don't know yeah or or that you're dumb. but just because you don't know um what. are what are positive things that we're. going to see with AI right I want to. start there yeah so I think first like. we don't the AI industry we don't do the.

best job explaining this and I think. sometimes we make it seem all sci-fi and. and and genuinely we we're part of the. problem and making it seem scary right. uh but you know one thing for example is. like I think AI is actually going to. create a ton of jobs um and that story. is not told enough but you know these. jobs that we're producing or this this. sort of um this opportunity that we're. providing on our platform outlier like. that's only going to grow as AI grows so. because you have to have new data you.

have to have new data and the only place. you can get new data is from people will. will at a certain point would the system. be able to. create it can probably matriculate data. or matriculate is that with birthing or. what is that yeah it just moves through. like okay it can probably like quantify. and a and and give you answers but it C. can AI create new data uh no so I think. well it can do a little bit of that so. it can AI can help itself create its own.

data um and and help itself a little bit. but ultimately most of the progress is. going to come from you know people were. able to help really the model get better. and smarter and more capable at all. these all these different areas ah yeah. I didn't see that part of it I didn't. understand that we are the ones who are. giving it um information and since we're. going to continue to learn I would. assume that we would be able to help. continue to help it learn yeah and the. world's going to keep changing and we're. going to need to be able to keep.

teaching the the algorithms keep. teaching the models about how the. world's changing so you it you know uh. this is actually a a big thing that I. think most people don't understand the. people who are getting the opportunity. now who are earning money from it see it. but as AI grows there's actually going. to be tons of jobs created along the way. and tons of opportunity for people to. help improve AI systems or control ey. systems or overall um sort of be a part.

of the the technology not just sort of. disenfranchised by it okay so like yeah. so what were what do you do you feel. like are other ways like if you had to. look into the future a little bit right. so you have the fact that people are. going to be able to add more data right. and add nuances to data y right and um. and probably humanize data a little bit. yeah totally um and then you're also. going to have what I think you're going. to have a lot of um a lot of jobs around. you know as AI starts um doing all these.

little things throughout the world who's. going to keep watch of those Ai and. who's going to make sure that those AI. are uh aren't doing something that we. don't want them to do so almost like. managing the AIS and and keeping watch. over all the AI systems that's going to. be another thing that we're going to. have to do um and then and then it's so. somebody to kind of guide the river a. little bit at certain point guide the. stream stay in there uh watch make sure. that answers are correct make sure the.

information um is honest yeah yeah like. like I think for example um you know. we're not going to just have ai going. around and you know um you know buying. stuff and doing crazy things and like. you know we're going to we're going to. keep it controlled right like as a. society I think we're going to keep it. controlled as a technology and I think. there's going to be a lot of jobs for. people people to make sure that the AI. doesn't go out and do crazy things that.

we don't want it to do right so we want. to be so you're going to need managers. you're going to need facilitators yeah. exactly what are things that AI will. alleviate like what are things that like. will it eventually be able to have. enough information like or da data where. uh where it can like cure diseases and. stuff like that like is that a realistic. thing yeah that's super real um wow like. cancer even yeah cancer um yeah heart. disease like all these all these. diseases boy cancer on its heels but.

sorry Antonio Antonio Brown was just. here I think there's still some smoke in. the air so um no but seriously I think. that AI uh one thing that we've seen. which is this is kind of wild but AI. understands like molecules and biology. better than humans do actually because. um it's uh like like uh there there's. this there's this thing in AI where. you know it used to take a like a PhD.

biologist like you know 5 years to do. something that the AI can can just do in. you know a few minutes right and that's. because the like uh just the way that. molecules and biology and all that works. is something that that AI happens to be. really good at and that's going to help. us ultimately cure diseases find um you. know Pharmaceuticals or other treatments. for these diseases and ultim help humans. live longer cuz that's very data driven. right like that's very specific it's.

very mathematic exactly yeah yeah um so. it's going to be a huge tool for us to. to cure disease um for us to help. educate people um for us to you know. there's a lot of a lot of really. exciting uses for AI but I think the. kind of I think the thing that um will. touch most people in their lives is it's. really going to be a um like a tool. that'll help you. um you know make all of your sort of uh.

make all your dreams kind of become. reality if that makes sense so so I. think one of the things that AI is going. to be really awesome for is like you. know today if I I have like a million. ideas right I have like you know. thousands and thousands of ideas and I. only have so much time so I can only. really do you know a few of them at a. time and most of the ideas just go to. die right yeah they do huh that's a. bummer it's a huge bummer yeah and I. think a lot of people you know for. whatever reason they may have some of.

the best ideas ever but they just you. know they're too busy or they have like. other [ __ ] going on in their lives they. can't make those ideas happen and it's. great with sometimes when people are. able to make the leaps and make them. happen and like devote themselves to. their dreams but um but that doesn't. happen enough today and one of the. things that AI is going to help us do I. I legitimately think so is it's going to. help us um turn these ideas into reality. much more easily so you know you you can. um like you know you're making a movie. let's say you have another movie idea.

you can say you can ultimately I think. you'll be able to tell an AI hey I have. this idea for a movie what could that. look like you know maybe draft up a. script um also who are the people who. can help you know fund this idea like. who who those people be can you help. reach out to them and then like you know. who should we cast in It basically help. make the whole thing a uh you know. instead of this like daunting thing that. these big projects are they're usually. so daunting you really don't know where. to get started and you kind of need a. person to help you get through them.

instead of that AI will help you get. through it and like help do a lot of the. the sort of less glamorous work to make. them a reality wow so I could say for. example like um like AI I would like to. shoot maybe I'm thinking about creating. an idea or shooting a film in this area. or or it's like this it's going to take. place in this type of place I could give. it the setting I could give it like a a. a outline of the characters like what. they look like their ages and some. description could you help give me um. possible potential actors or something.

within a certain price range that I. could maybe cast for that um yeah could. you help give me like locations around. the country that would fit that backdrop. um could you uh list me all the talent. agencies that I could reach out to and. you could kind of just put those things. in and then you would have sort of a uh. a bit of a guide book at that point that. would make your yeah what before was. something that felt extremely daunting. yeah [ __ ] in 2 minutes you know and then.

you put it in AI it gives you the. information back in a few minutes and. maybe you're and I think I think over. time it'll also be able to start doing a. lot of the leg work for you so it'll be. able to reach out to people for you. it'll be able to you know uh figure out. the logistics it'll be able to to book. things for you like it'll be able to. basically help do all the leg work to. make it make you know whatever it is. into a reality um so very much an. assistant in a lot of ways yeah yeah. yeah an assistant co-pilot. um you know the the hot word in the AI. world is Agents but you know it's just.

it it'll be something that'll help you. you know you humans are going to be in. control humans are ultimately going to. be telling the AI what they want it to. do and then you know hey what do we want. what do we want these AI Do It. ultimately going to be to like help us. execute on and accomplish all these. ideas that we have um so a genius could. be three or fourx if somebody's like a. genius in something in some realm or. space of thought you could three or. fourx them because like multiply their.

their output from their own brain. because they could have something really. helping them um get done a lot of the. like the early work on things and maybe. some of the most severe work yeah. totally like what I think one thing that. I always feel like kind of sucks is that. um if you have a director you really. like they're only going to make a movie. once every couple of years so even if. you have a director that you like think. is amazing you know they just it's hard. for them to make that many movies like. cuz just takes so much time and effort. and you know um there's so many.

bottlenecks and stuff so in a future. with you know more advanced AI systems. they could they could just turn them out. and uh they could they can make so many. of their ideas into a reality and I. think that's true not only in Creative. areas but it's kind of true across the. board like you know you can start new. businesses more easily you can um you. know you can make various creative. projects you have happen more easily you. can make like you can you can finally. plan that event that you your friends. have been talking about for like you. know years and years so it can just like.

really help you you know we think about. as like giving humans more agency giving. humans more sort of sovereignty and just. and just enabling humans to get way more. done yeah that's a great way I like some. of this thought because yeah I could be. like like my fantasy football group and. I we do a um we do a a draft every year. in a different location you know and. Shout out pae that's our fantasy league. jrod everybody that's for the past 17. years we've flown to a city each year. and done a draft in person right um but.

I could say hey uh we have 10 guys we. want to go to a nice place we want there. to be a beach um this is the age group. of our group uh you know these would. kind of be the nights and it you know. just to really give me like a just a. nice plan of hey here's 10 possibilities. right something like that and then even. more like with a movie this is what I. worry you you'd run into say if I'd be. like okay I have two main characters and. this is kind of what I would like to. happen could you help me with a First.

Act of a threea movie how do you know. everybody just doesn't get the same. movie then like that's what I would. start to worry that everything that you. have it create is all going to be very. similar yeah so then I think this is. where it comes into like this is where. human creativity is going to matter. because it's going to be about then it's. about like okay what is the how am I you. know how am I directing the AI system. like what are my what are the tricks I. have to make the AI give me something. that's different and unique and that's. that's not different at all from you.

know how creative stuff works today like. even on social media or you know. anywhere you know this like you still. had your own spice to it you need yeah. you need an angle you always need to. like have something that's going to make. it like different and interesting and. new um so that's not going to change. like we're humans are always going to. have to figure out based on where. cultures at based on where you know what. the dialogue is what the what the. discourse is all that kind of stuff what. is my fresh take. that's where that's really one of the. key things that humans are going to have. to keep doing no matter what right and.

and some of the like a lot of films and. books a lot of it is there's just like a. problem there's a there's maybe a. information you learn there's a red. herring and then there's a solution like. that's a lot of stories right so if. something just gave you the basis and. then you go through and make everything. your own um cuz a lot of things we. there's only so many templates for. things things um huh yeah so so say for.

example say you might need to hire. people at a company then that would help. direct your AI like somebody who's good. at managing AI yeah uh and giving it the. best prompts or the best way to ask it. questions yeah uh to get the perfect. feedback for your company yeah so those. would be new jobs you those would be. actual new people you would need yeah so. so tons of new jobs right well first I. think just like helping to you know kind. of what we're were talking about before.

these jobs around helping to improve the. data and and um contribute to the AI. systems that's just going to keep. growing for a long long time and then as. AI gets better and it gets used in more. areas then you're there are going to be. a lot of jobs uh that pop up just. exactly as you're saying which is how do. you what's the best way to use this as a. tool what's the best way to leverage it. to you know um actually make some of. these uh these applications or you know. whatever you want to build a reality.

yeah and then and then there's going to. be folks who need to Once those are. built like how do you keep improving it. how do you keep making it better how do. you keep um how do you keep it fresh how. do you keep it um keep it going and then. how do you also make sure it doesn't do. anything bad right like how do you make. sure that the AI doesn't accidentally. spam a million people or whatever it. might be um and you make sure that it. sort of is uh like operating in a good. way fahem enir I was watching him bring. up a picture of fahem this is one of the.

funny this guy this is the most. creative comedian uh in America. undeniable um he is so funny he had any. everybody would say he's he's one of the. few comedians that everybody goes in. there to watch him perform he had a bit. the other night he talks about he got. into a wayo right um a car and I see so. many Whos now which are cars that are. just nobody's in them. you know but they're going right so he. had this bid he's like he got into a.

wayo and it started complaining about. its life to him he's like I've had a. shitty week like the car's just talking. to him and he's like what the now he's. like now I no matter what I still have. to talk to my shitty driver that's what. he was saying um if you get a chance to. see him though that guy is he's. fascinating um but how like so what what. companies right now should kind of look. to hire an AI guy cuz we've been. thinking about it like we had some uh we. had Cat Williams on a last week and. we're like hey can you create visuals of.

sug Knight and Cat Williams riding. bicycles down Sunset Boulevard right and. this is the one they sent back a little. while. later Christopher folino is the guy's. name fi and this is just this was right. where I said it was like by The Comedy. Store on Sunset Boulevard there you go I. mean this looks like it's out of a movie. kind of yeah totally I mean and the guy. did that in a little in just a little. bit of time what types of people would. you get to I mean this is that's you you. yeah if I was healthier if I had. healthier gums too but what about this.

what kind of like what companies right. now what job spaces because we want to. get an AI guy right but I don't really. my brain is like what do they do how do. I how would I keep them busy you know I. could get them to make some animations. and ideas but what type of people need. an AI person right now do you feel like. I kind of think about AI it's kind of. like uh the internet where you know. eventually everybody's going to need to. figure out how to how to utilize it how. to best how to best use it for their.

industry or whatever they do how to make. it them more efficient like it's. something that I think everybody is. going to is going to need to adopt at. some point so um you know might as well. start earlier because eventually just. like how you know every basically every. company has to figure out how to use the. internet well and how to be smart about. you know the internet and digital stuff. every company's going to have to be. smart about AI how to use AI how to make. um how to have a unique Twist on it so.

that you know their stuff stands out. relative to other people's that's going. to be really important but um so we see. I mean in our work you know we work with. all these um all these big companies in. America and we see it everywhere from. you know uh we worked with Time Magazine. on some stuff and then we worked with uh. Toyota on some stuff for their cars and. we worked with um you know large. pharmaceutical companies for the biology. stuff we were talking about large. hospitals for you know helping to treat. patients like really it's across the. board um and I think that goes for you.

know obviously these like really big. businesses but also for for smaller. businesses you know there's always. interesting ways to utilize it to to uh. to provide a better product or a better. experience or better content for you. know whoever you need to do that for. yeah because I guess right now we're. like there's certain moments like okayy. let's animate this moment or see what AI. would look like it adds some visual. effects to some of our episodes so. that's something we like to do to just. be fun and creative I would like to. maybe create like some sort of an. animated character we already have a.

great animator and we want to keep that. but to have an AI space where it's like. you know cuz they have something they. had a little cat the other day or. something and he was going to war and I. was like damn dude this is it was AI you. know totally and they had a baby was. getting in a taxi and I was like this. [ __ ] is ille you know I don't know if. it's illegal or not but it seems you. know it doesn't seem it you know it seem. it's definitely a tool for storytellers. right like it's it's it'll help people. with with a Creative Vision or or these. War cats yeah that's a story right there.

special forces cats would YouTube. recognize. this damn brother if they show up dude. wow this honestly it looks it looks. badass and it looks like cats have been. waiting to do this a long time yeah. that's the crazy [ __ ] about cats you. look in their ey now their outfits. finally match the look in their eyes. that's what it feels like dude wow. that's Dune that's uh that's fan fan. cats oh my gosh yeah yeah so that's.

going to get alarming dude that's that's. going to get Hella alarming that's a. movie right there it is but it's almost. like you could make like that's what I. want to get I want to get somebody to. help us think hey I'll make these little. segments that we can take our creativity. and instead of me thinking man I got to. write this huge crazy script for just. kind of small things you know little. moments yeah can you help me make this. happen I think that's actually the key. thing which is a I like AI will just be. something that we turn to to help make.

our dreams happen like to help make our. ideas and our dreams and our you know. whatever you want to do happen more. easily got it that's like at the core. what it'll be yeah um who's the who's. the current leader in AI development. like is it America is it China is it. Israel is it trying to think of another. uh superpower Russia maybe um or yeah. who is it Taiwan I know has a lot the. chips yeah and they manufactur a lot of. the chips over there um and does it.

matter what country leads in AI or does. it just matter the company like scale or. another AI company so does that make. sense that question no totally totally. yeah so so today America is in the lead. but um but China as a country is is sort. of hot on our Tails um like there was uh. there was all that news about deep seek. a couple weeks ago and and uh deep seek. in still in most places around the world. is the number one most downloaded app.

you know it's downloaded a ton in you. everywhere around the world frankly um. and is a Chinese AI system right and so. it's starting to rival a lot of the. American AI systems also because it's. free and you know it uh it kind of like. shocked the world so right now if you. kind of look at it um us and China are. are a little bit neck and neck maybe the. US and America's like a little bit ahead. and you kind of like look at you know if. you go back to each of the three pieces. that I talked about so um the chips and.

the computational power the data and the. algorithms um if you were to rack and. stack US versus China on each one of. those you know we're probably we are. ahead on the computational power because. the United States is the leader at. developing the chips and and most of the. most advanced chips or American chips um. they probably beat us out on data um cuz. China they've been investing into data. for a very long time as a country and.

then on algorithms we're basically neck. and neck um so it's a pretty tight race. um and you know to your question about. does it matter or what is what does this. mean um I uh I think it's actually going. to be one of the most important uh you. know questions or most important races. over our time is is it us or Chinese AI. that wins because um you know AI is more. than just being a tool that uh that you.

know we all we can all use to make our. you know build whatever we want to or. make whatever ideas we want to happen. it's also um you know it's a it's a. cultural uh staple right you know if you. talk to an AI that AI is kind of a. reflection of our culture and our values. and all that stuff so in America we. value free speech and you know the AIS. are you know need to are built to. support that whereas in. in China there's there isn't free speech. and so um you know if if the Chinese AIS.

are the ones that take over the world. then all these Chinese ideologies are. going to become exported all around the. world and and so so first is there's. couple Dimensions here that I think. matter so first is just the cultural. element which is like do we want kind of. democracy and free speech um to be the. the cultural AI that wins or do we want. sort of the more um you know frankly. totalitarian AIS in China to be the ones. that win and then there's sort of the um.

there's like the uh you know you start. getting to economically so AI is going. to be something that helps um all the. companies in the United States Thrive. and so if the usai wins then we're going. to you know the economy will grow faster. we're going to have more and more. opportunity you know the country will. still be better and better and better um. and and um the economy will keep growing. reversus if Chinese AI wins then Chinese. econom is going to grow way faster than. the American economy so there's sort of. the the cultural piece the economic.

piece and then lastly there's there's. the there's kind of the Warfare piece. right and you know AI we haven't really. talked about it but has clear potential. to be used as a military technology and. we don't want you know we don't want uh. another country to have because they use. they have better AI to have a much. stronger military than than America's so. like how would they do that how would. they have a better AI or how would they. use it to have a better military yeah.

how would they use it to have a better. military like why is that kind of a. concern or potential concern yeah so so. one of the things that's been happening. over the past you know decade for sure. is uh is lots of hacking cyber hacking. going on so you know in America um even. recently we had this huge cyber hack. called salt typhoon where um where the. Chinese hacked our our uh. telecommunications companies so hacked. our for the phone companies damn they. did they got it and they got all sorts.

of crazy data as a result of that oh. they know I'm a pervert I'll tell you. that yeah look at this this happened in. 2020 salt typhoon is in it is wildely. understood to be operated by the China's. Ministry state of security um its. foreign intelligence service and secret. police Chinese Embassy denied all. allegations saying it was unfat an. irresponsible smears and Slanders um. high-profile cyber espan. um in 2024 us officials announced that. hackers affiliated with salt typhoon had.

access to computer systems of non us. telecommunications companies later. acknowledged to include Verizon AT&T. T-Mobile Spectrum Lumen Consolidated. Communications and Windstream the. hackers were able to access metad dat of. users calls and text messages [ __ ] homie. we're [ __ ] dude I am you seem good. including date and time stamps source. and destination IP addresses ah [ __ ]. keep keep going keep going and phone. numbers from over a million users most. of which were located in Washington DC.

good light them up dude in some cases. the hackers were able to obtain audio. recordings of telephone calls made by. high-profile. individuals such individuals reportedly. included staff of the Kamal a 2024. presidential campaign as well as phones. belong to Donald Trump and JD Vance. according to Deputy National Security. adviser and newberger a large number of. the individuals whose data was directly. accessed were government Target of. Interest wow yeah that's CRA so do you.

think this also that that whole thing. could be not real and it's just a story. that was. created uh that seems pretty real. because there there's real there like um. I mean there's like 20 stories where uh. where the Chinese have have hacked. American systems like they hacked this. was uh this must have been close to 10. years ago now but the Chinese hacked the. database in America that stored all of. the clearances so they hacked in they. they managed to hack into knowing who.

are literally all of the Americans who. have security clearance oh security. clearance yeah thought even what was on. sale I was like who. cares that's great though damn oh damn. so they knew everybody who had who knew. oh who knew information who knew Secrets. yeah so once they knew that then they. know well that's a great point of. operation to go then well now let's get. find their data they can just hack all. of them yeah so so they so already China. is hacking the [ __ ] out of America that.

is definitely not an understatement yeah. it's exciting kind of I mean it's. unfortunate but it's also exciting I. like some Espionage you know I can't. sleep unless somebody's [ __ ] really. going through it um but then but then so. this is but that's a real AI thing so AI. can be used to do that because you can. like prompt it to go and do things like. that yeah yeah yeah there's there's a. bunch of recent cuz it's all data yeah. there's a bunch of recent demonstrations. where where AI is just like how in in go. how AI beat the world's best go players.

AI is starting to beat the world's best. cyber hackers and the world's best yeah. so it's uh I don't if you saw Mr Robot. um I didn't but I dm'd with Magnus. Magnus Carlson oh that's cool pretty. cool so but no Mr Robot is it good uh. it's it just it it shows like all this. hacking stuff in like you know cool it. it makes it seem really cool okay cool. I'm going to check it out but uh but. yeah no hacking like like you're going. to have ai that are hacking everything. in America and this is one place where.

this is like us versus China will be. really come to life which is who has. better AI That's better at defending. against the hacks from the other guy as. well as hacking the other the other guys. systems um that's going to be that'll. just that'll just start happening that's. basically starting to happen right now. or it's you know cyber warfare has been. happening and then AI cyber warfare is. going to start happening yeah basically. as soon as you know as AI get better. yeah we had Craig Newark who created. Craigslist on and he was talking about.

how what if they hacked like everybody's. Teslas to all just drive off a cliff one. day or they hacked everybody's ovens to. go up to 400 degrees in the middle of. the night while you're sleeping and then. fire started like just things like that. that you don't start to think about that. um once something's connected to the. Grid or something like that are. connected through routers and Wi-Fi that. that that could be feasible yeah no it's. there's a lot of um there's a lot of. things they could do that won't even. like seem like that big a deal at the.

time but could be really really could. could be a big deal so for example let's. say the Chinese like they just took out. all the military uh like communication. systems and all the military software. systems um like took out the satellites. took out all that for like 10 minutes. and in those 10 minutes they like you. know invaded somewhere or they like did. some crazy thing like they can just. there's there's the the thing about um. about this stuff is like everything at. you know as the worlds become more.

connected it also enables you know. different kinds of warfare so uh so. cyber warfare is really big also like. the um uh you know uh information. Warfare is another big one so what does. information Warfare mean so this is. information Warfare is all about you. know um in a place what is what are like. the stories this is kind of gets to like. you you know the like propaganda or you. know these conspiracy theories like what. are the stories that um in a place that.

we're trying to make happen or not make. happen and we know that China does a. bunch of information Warfare called IW. it's sometimes called but they they have. a they have whole operations this is. actually the craziest part they have. like they they've hired the the Chinese. military at various points has hired. millions and millions of people who are. supposed to be on like various like chat. groups WhatsApp groups and WeChat groups. and whatnot and just um spread the right.

kind of stories that'll make it such. that they can like um they can make. their political aims happen so for. example in uh when when China wanted to. start like kind of like um uh I don't. know what the word is like uh like uh. when Hong when they when China wanted. Hong Kong to become a part of China. again which happened just not too not. too you know pretty the PRC right PRC. exactly when they want propaganda is. that what you're looking for yeah they. would they would yeah exactly they would. use a lot of propaganda and that's.

information Warfare to be able to just. make it such that that all happen much. more easily well it's it's unbelievable. I'll see stories even about I'll be. going through Tik Tok and see a story. come up about something in my life that. is not not even true insane some of it. looks fun but never was a part of my. existence and then you'll see hundreds. of people have said something about like. and they'll and I'll have friends. that'll ask me about it I'm like that's. just crazy like totally but I so yeah. it's amazing to think of how many things. we're watching or absorbing that um are.

just uh are M are created just to delude. us yeah I don't know if delude is the. word is it trick us or make us think. something just to [ __ ] Halloween us. out um wow so there's a lot of. interesting things you know what's crazy. man some things makes life scary but. then it also makes it interesting you. know it also makes it interesting in a. in a in a fun way um how do we how much. do we have to fear say if a certain.

country or a certain company owns an AI. right in that country and that company. um if they're Chinese if they um have a. certain religious belief or they have uh. information that they don't they want to. adjust. history how much would a company be able. to like say they keep certain data out. of their information. system but and then after a while if.

you're if that's the company that kind. of takes the lead in AI are one of the. main ones then the truth could disappear. is that true that if somebody loaded it. just with the data that wasn't factual. that we could start to not have the. truth is that does that make any sense. or no yeah totally I think this is this. is something that um it's definitely the. right thing to worry about so so first. off if you ask any Chinese AI system so. any AI system that comes out of China if.

you ask any of them about you know a. question about President XI the you know. the the leader of the Chinese government. or you ask them any question about you. know tanaman square or you all these. like key historical or or you know. cultural things relevant to China um. it'll say it can't talk about them. because there's regulation in China that. if you talk about some of these things. like you're you're going to get shut. down you're going to have a really bad. day there's like cases where um the.

Chinese government disappears people um. which we don't know what happens to them. but they do disappear so there's the the. this is part of the thing that's. worrying especially about um China. versus us even before you get into any. of the military stuff that we're talking. about it's just like the. Chinese Chinese AI systems are censored. and are gonna you know be you know. they're going to they're going to erase. certain historical elements or they're. going to be um yeah look at that this is.

deep seek you you ask it is pres she of. China a good guy sorry that's beyond my. scope let's talk about something else oh. let's talk about something not only does. it say it's beyond my scope it says. let's talk about something else that's. that's interesting a good pivot that's a. good that's good that a great hey let's. talk about something else huh wow get. this Yao Ming Jersey homie um but and. people always people also have to. remember about China that they are. that's their whole government their. whole system is like that so when people.

are like China does this but that's how. they're built right they're built to. like only give out certain information. to their people and to um have communism. right yeah yeah so I mean but that could. also happen with American companies. right we could have an American company. that owns it and they only want certain. information in there that could happen. anywhere like China that's probably. going to be because that's their MO sort. of yeah in China it's regulated so. basically like oh the government has. control they have control so so um like. there were there are these stories about.

how there were Chinese news sites um. news sites news sites yeah and they. would once a Chinese news site um. accidentally led an article about uh. pres she how he kind of looks like. Winnie the Pooh um oh yeah they let that. bring him up oh Hunter AKA wood gang son. I was out there boy I was out there bro. Christopher for Robins dude get him. up oh he does yeah that's awesome yeah.

but if you talk about this in China you. like are risking your life so what. happened what happened when this happen. this happened on a on a new site in. China and then the uh the the CEO of. that company like they shut down the. whole app was shut down for like a week. um in the aftermath of that and then the. the CEO disappeared for a week and uh we. don't know what happened to him but then. as soon as he came back he was like. there was like this weird video where he. was like you super apologetic and apolog.

I mean it's it's kind of it's pretty. scary yeah wow so um so in China there. it's like this is the government has. control you know you don't have ai s. companies AI any companies that can that. can talk about this stuff right so it's. heavily regulated there where it's not. the that's not the case here yeah in. America. and this is I think we have to be. diligent and make sure this continues to. be the case but and here's an example. right here just to inter to interrupt.

you but so we get it the point in does. wi the poo look like any world leaders. and that's on the Chinese version uh it. says I am sorry I can answer that. question I'm an AI assistant designer. provide helpful and harmless responses. whereas the chat gbt says wi the PO has. often been compared to world leaders. particularly XII pink xen ping president. of China boy. wow so that's funny but it's just funny. yeah one so it just shows you how that. can easily happen and this is kind of a.

this is like a uh a relatively innocuous. example but what does innocuous mean. like uh it's relatively harmless like. this isn't I mean right this is harmless. yeah this is harmless but there's stuff. where like um like in China today they. have large scale effectively. concentration camps and re-education. camps for the ethnic minority in China. the Wagers and that's something that the. Wagers the Wagers yeah hell yeah boy. shout out Brian pervis dude they're.

recognized as the titular nationality of. the um of a region in Northwest China. and they they're sending them to. Rehabilitation camps to change their. views and information yeah yeah so look. at this this uh look at this guy persec. of the Wagers in China since 2014 the. government of the PRC People's Republic. of China has committed a series of. ongoing human rights abuses against the. Wagers and other Turkish. Muslim minorities in Xiang X which has. often been characterized as persecution. or as genocide wow they got their own.

Gaza rocking over there it's pretty bad. it's unfortunate pretty bad it's really. sad Mass detention government policies. and forced labor and they're just trying. to change the way that they think and. view stuff so it's. basically it's yeah it's just like. erasing their culture you know pulling. them into China um it's awful every. place has done this over the years and. that's just that's the craziest thing. about history it's like like every place. is guilty of this same thing totally and. it just it's it's unfortunate so it's.

it's hard to point fingers you know I. mean you can point them but you have to. point one at your own people as well but. that's the thing where if you ask like. it if you ask a Chinese AI it's not. going to tell you about that and it. won't it won't come clean about that. whereas thankfully in in America at. least when we see people or groups of. people or countries doing bad things we. can call it out we can talk about it we. can make sure it doesn't happen in the. future um so that's part of the uh. that's one of the things that's that.

could happen that could happen it's like. you you could have I mean it's kind of. dystopian but you know I think there's a. real case where let's say the Chinese AI. is the winning AI like we're all using. Chinese Ai and then all of a sudden. we're like we we shut out from. information about what are like awful. things happening in the world or what. the awful things the government's doing. like we might just not be able to know. about what's going on. and you know what's weirdly and I hate. to say this maybe or maybe it's silly I. don't know it might be a blessing and a.

curse in sometimes because sometimes. it's like you're overwhelming yeah. you're so inundated with the. overwhelmingness of what's often is not. the best stuff some that you get a lot. of humor stuff too in social media reals. but you can get scrolling and get caught. in some Doom scrolling yeah and it. starts to feed you that's the sickness. of it it's like hey we you this isn't we. know this information probably going to. make you feel good they're not thinking. about it like that they're just a. machine but you know it doesn't it adds. stress to you it makes you agitated. towards a a group or ethnicity or.

something or yourself even and then you. continue to it continues to feed it to. you um do you fear that that could. happen uh to AI from our government like. have you been approached by the. government to try and um because you. work with the government some right we. work with the government yeah um we work. yeah we work a lot with uh with the. government to make sure that they're. using these AIS and they're actually. like you know to as to my point on we. don't want China get the jump on us on. AI used for all these you know all these. nefarious purposes so we got to make.

sure that our AI is is uh is advancing. faster um is that one of your biggest. employers or is that employer employee. is that one of your biggest uh customers. customers one of your biggest customers. uh they're a big one yeah they're a big. one um not our biggest but uh but. they're an important one I mean I I grew. up in a government lap town so felt it's. uh so it's just part it's also part of. your existence really even known about. the relationship between government and. um technology technology yeah totally. wow um but uh no I don't think I mean I.

dude you should be a superhero almost. dude it's kind of crazy math you know. yeah goes a long way oh hell yeah dude. divide these nuts dude that's what I. tell them I just asked uh deep seek who. are the yugar and at first it spit out. like a Wikipedia response it said there. are people and there's been like. persecution from China that's that's uh. debated and it refreshed and then it. gave this I was waiting to pull it up. and it went away wow yeah man um do you.

do has the government tried to say that. we need to make sure that like could. that happen in our country where the. government also curtails what's um it. hasn't happened yet I obviously like you. know you got to we have to we have to. make sure that we uphold all our values. right and that we maintain free speech. and we maintain Free Press and all these. things but um as of right now no I don't. think I don't think that's a risk in the. in the United States awesome thanks for. this information um you hear about like. chip makers Nvidia all the time Taiwan.

that place is just a hot bed for uh. chips why is it a hot bed for chips yeah. so one of the the biggest companies in. the world is this company called uh. Taiwan semiconductor yeah TSM I've seen. them tsmc yeah so they're they're um I. mean it's it's like a trillion dollar. company uh based in Taiwan and it's uh. that is where almost all of the high-end. chips for AI that you know we were kind. of we were kind of talking about all of. them are manufactured there they have.

these they have the most advanced think. about them as factories like the most. advanced chip factories in the world. they're called Fabs or Fabricators but. basically these huge factories that are. like you know there there's all sorts of. crazy stuff so um they have the most. expensive machines in the world they. have machines that cost hundreds of. millions of dollars in there they have. um they build them because uh so that. you know the chips they have to be made. at at the like finest levels and very. very precisely yeah you need small.

hands probably huh you well that and. there's like these machines that um that. at the nanometer level make like little. marks and etches on top of uh and they. have those they have those yeah those. are super expensive machines so the so. um the chips it's it's crazy yeah but. the but it's so it's the the Machinery. is so precise that um even if there's. like a little bit of like seismic. movement a little earthquake or a little. bit of movement it can [ __ ] up the whole. machine so they have to build the the.

buildings build the factories in a way. such that there's like like the whole. building doesn't move even if there's. like a little earthquake or a little. shake from the earth so it's like it's. just crazy crazy engineering um and so. that's so these all these giant. factories are in Taiwan and that's where. basically like 100% of all the advanced. AI chip are made so that's why Taiwan. matters so much got it but then the. reason it's a hot bed is that um uh the.

the People's Republic of China the. PRC uh has a they used to own Taiwan. right yeah I mean is that true or not I. might make that up there there's a. there's a complicated relationship. between Taiwan and and China where T you. know if you ask people in Taiwan they. they want to be independent they want to. be their own country but um but the. people Republic's People's Republic of. China has a um sort of a reunification. plan that they want to bring Taiwan back. into their country and be back a part of.

China so it's kind of you it's kind of. like it potentially you know thankfully. there there's no war yet but there's a. risk still talking to your ex yeah. exactly there's a risk it becomes like. Russia Ukraine or you know one of these. really really bad situations um so so. that's what's scary what's scary is that. um that that CH a China wants to you. know either invade or bring bring Taiwan. back into its country um and there have.

been you know um president XI has has. ordered his military to get ready to do. that before. 2027 um now we don't know what's going. to happen but you know if a extremely. powerful world leader says to get. something ready by 2027 you kind of you. know read between the lines a little bit. yeah um and uh and it's part of it is is. uh obviously it it'd be you know we. don't want to enable them to to take. over this island but then the other.

thing that's scary is um China May view. it as a way to just like win on AI. because if they take over the island. with all of these very these giant. factories all the chips baby they'll get. all the chips Fredo Lamborghini baby. they' be running it all they' be running. it all yeah wow so yeah that's why. Taiwan is yeah because you kind of hear. about it in The Whispers of like a. potential place where there could be. like a conflict yeah and there's there's. all these reports about how um China's.

they they're stacking up tons and tons. of military um right on their their. their Coast to you know that's pointed. directly at Taiwan and it's it's pretty. clo taiwan's pretty close to China like. it's it's uh it's not so far away so. that'd be spooky that's spook yeah. spooky we're we're so blessed to have a. place where at least we can sleep in. peace even if uncomfortable at times in. our brains you know to not have that. constant threat yeah totally yeah so you. don't think you don't think you don't.

worry that the government will regulate. right now it's not it's not a concern at. the moment uh regulate AI yeah in. America no I don't think so I think I. think uh I think we're focused on how do. we make sure that America wins how do we. make sure that uh that the United States. comes out on top and that we enable. Innovation to keep happening would you. think that they could regulate the. amount of chips that you're allowed to. have. so this is a Hot Topic globally actually. which is yeah yeah wow this is a super.

this is actually damn finally dude 560. interviews we got a good question this. is one of the hottest topics in DC right. now uh is what what are we going to do. about how many chips other people are. allowed to have because because almost. all the chips are American chips so they. all they all are American chips and. technically what do youan we own most of. them yeah exactly but China owns most of. them too they China has their own uh has.

their own chip industry but it's behind. ours okay got it yeah yeah so so the. United States has the has the most. advanced chips and you know these chips. are the Envy of the world everybody in. the world wants our chips and uh the one. of the big questions is are you know do. we does the government allow a lot of. these chips to go over overseas to China. or parts of Asia or the Middle East or. wherever. or do we want to make sure they stay in. America and make sure that we win in. America and this is a super duper you.

know they're called export controls yeah. um cuz it's a the possibility to run it. all yeah exactly who's got the chips. what do you think about it um it's a. complicated complicated thing because. basically you know one argument is um we. shouldn't be throwing our weight around. in this way like you know maybe it's. it's fine it's a free market like if. other people want our chips they should. be able to get our chips and that way.

you know the world is running on. American chips that that can be good in. some ways and it helps make sure that. you know helps bolster our economy our. industry um but the other way to look at. it is hey AI is really really important. that America wins at and we don't want. to like let's not give other people any. advantages or let's make sure that we. win and then and then we can figure out. what we're going to do with all the the. chips so it you can see both sides of it. right and there's like all sorts you. know even beyond that there's like 50.

different arguments on both sides of the. of the conversation but um you know. where I go where I come from on it is. like let's let's make sure America wins. and let's start from there and then. figure out what we need to do to. win are there uses of AI that you feel. like cross the line kind. of um I definitely think like uh well I. I worry a lot about this kind of like uh. you know maybe brainwashing kind of.

thing like I don't want I don't want AIS. that are specifically programmed to make. me think a certain thing or persuade me. to do a certain thing and that could. happen that could happen yeah so I'm. really worried about this kind of like. deception and persuasion from AIS like I. don't want AIS that are lying to me or. uh that are are sort of that are like. that are kind of like nudging me or or. persuading me to do things that I don't. want to do or I shouldn't be doing.

that's what I worry about because it. could happen we don't realize how easily. we're influenced little things that. influence us yeah and even just the. Turning of a phrase or a little bit of. this or pointing you to a couple of. lengths in your life could lead you down. a whole world it's kind of it's pretty. fascinating so people that could people. that. had how do you keep your AI clean how do. you guys keep your AI clean well this is. where it goes back to a the data okay so. you got to make sure that that data to. your point the large body of water is as.

clean as as as um as pristine as. possible you got lifeguards on it yeah. we got lifeguards we got filters we got. we got game. wardens um so so big part of it is about. the data and the second part is I think. we have to just we have to constantly be. testing the AI system so um we have to. we have to like we constantly running. tests on AI to see hey is there are they. unsafe in some way you know one of the.

one of the tests that we run a lot uh is. uh and this is like you know across the. industry is like um are AI helping. people do really nefarious things and. we're making sure that they don't so you. know if somebody asks an AI hey help me. make a bomb or help me make like a like. covid like 2.0 or whatnot that the AI is. not helping you do that so um so we run. a lot of tests to make sure that it. doesn't help in those areas and then um.

and then we make sure that the data is. really clean so that there's no there's. no sort of like little bit or piece of. that that makes its way to the. model with outlier that's your program Y. without liar how are you how are what. type of people are applying for those. jobs can people just log on and start to. and submit applications like how does. that work to become a um information. sourcer yeah we call them contributors. information everybody's kind of. contributing to the AIS everybody's. contributing to the data um that goes.

into the AIS um it's kind of like I. almost think about like the next. generation of Wikipedia right we like um. yeah look at this and we're hiring. people all around the world so people in. all sorts of different languages um dude. that's crazy man yeah yeah well it turns. out by the way most of the AIS don't. really um speak other languages that. well they're much much better at uh at. English and and uh particularly American. English than uh than other languages and.

so we want to make sure that they speak. all these languages well and that. there's these opportunities but yeah on. outlier so um anybody in the around the. world can log in and sort of there's a. little bit of a of a of a um like. orientation almost on uh on how to best. um like what you're supposed to do how. you're supposed to do it what expertise. should you be bringing all that kind of. stuff and then and then you can just. start um contributing to the to the AI. models and you get paid to do it wow.

yeah it's pretty fascinating man and. it's going to be I mean I really think I. I legitimately think jobs from AI are. going to be the fastest growing jobs in. the world for the years to come you do. yeah like what so jobs where people are. able to contribute information jobs. where people are able to like what like. what would examples of those be just. some of the ones you've already listed. yeah all the ones we've been talking. about right like contributing to the AIS. um helping to utilize the AIS and. helping to to shape the AIS into into. applications or into you know uh into in.

like helping organizations or companies. or people use the AIS that'll be a. really fast growing job um helping to to. manage the AI and make sure they're. they're they're on the straight and. narrow where would a young person go. right now who's some who's getting into. college or has doesn't even want to go. to college but this is the world they. want to get into and be one of those. people what would do they do right now. yeah well this is all happening so fast. right like the uh the like uh outlier we.

only started a few years ago so all of. this is happening so so quickly but what. we want to do ultimately is make it easy. for anybody in the world to you know. gain the skills they need to be able to. do this work well to learn what it means. what it does and ultimately be in a. position where they can they can you. know help build AIS and then and then. keep improving that and gaining Mastery. and and getting better and better at but. like where do they go to school is there. a school is there classes they should. take online like how does. someone's start to.

become you know just get a head start on. what could potentially be probably a lot. of job opportunities I'm guessing yeah. like in the AI space right like is it. just is it just Engineers like is it. just mathematicians like no it's. everybody because yeah as we were. talking about like AI needs to get. smarter about literally everything so. but are there colleges offering Court. like is there do you know like is there. a specific places where people can CU. that's another thing I think it's like. I'm want to work in Ai and like what do. I do you know yeah yeah I I don't think.

these programs exist yet I mean we we. would definitely love to help build them. so I guess if any colleges are listening. you know and you want to help figure out. how to build these programs we we love. we'd love to help that'd be pretty cool. if you had your own kind of Cl like. course not that you had to teach at all. that you know but you were like a. partner of it somehow yeah I mean I. think we'd love to to basically teach. everybody in America how to best. contribute to the AIS how to held to. best basically take advantage of the. fact that this is going to be one of the. fastest growing Industries there's going. to be tons of opportunities they're.

going to be shaped a little bit. different from you know the jobs that. exist today but you know it's not going. to be that hard for everybody to learn. and figure out how to participate in it. what are some jobs that could that could. be at risk because of AI right because. you start thinking that like yeah before. I was talking to you there's this. General fear of like everything could be. at risk right um but when you think. about it you're like yeah these are some. jobs that I mean they won't disappear. there might be less of them right I just. think it'll be um it'll be we'll be. doing like a different thing so because.

a lot of our fans are probably just. bluecollar listeners like like just. people that work in like you're not. going to you're still going to need a. plumber you're still going to need an. electrician you're still going to need. anything where you have to physically do. something you're probably still going to. need yeah for sure and then even stuff. where you're like let's say you're. you're mostly just working on a laptop. and you know um even for those jobs like. it'll just change like instead of being. um instead of inad of my job being like. hey I have to do the work I have. literally do the work on a laptop it'll. almost be like everybody gets um.

promoted to being a manager like because. I'm going to be managing like a a little. pod of 10 AI agents that are doing the. work that I used to do but I need to. make sure that all of them are doing it. right and that um they're not making any. mistakes and that you know if they're. making mistakes I'm helping them you. know get around those mistakes like like. it's just going to I the way I think. about it is that like yeah like. literally. um over time everybody will just be. upgraded to being a manager or sort of. promoted to being a manager can you have.

that many managers you think yeah cuz I. think that what's the other thing that's. going to happen is the um the economy is. just going to grow so much like there's. going to be there's going to be so much. like there will be like Industries are. going to pop off in crazy crazy ways and. so you know the limit is going to be how. many AIS can you have and then you're. going to be limited for in terms of the. number of AI you have by the number of. managers that you have so um it's gonna.

uh it's going because you need air. traffic controllers you're going to need. as M as many of as you can have yeah. well that that definitely but but right. but I mean in any field you're going to. need like just more manag you need more. people to oversee and make sure that. these that different things are. happening because some of the smaller. tasks will just be outsourced yeah and. just so much more stuff is going to be. happening right and that's kind of. right because yeah once these things are. all kind of taken care of more things. can happen at this second level yep. that's a good point yeah you don't think.

about that once some of the things at. the first level of of a of certain. businesses are handled yep more easily. by AI then you're going to be able to. have more people operating at a higher. level yeah. totally it's kind of like it's kind of. like always the history of Technology. like when when we started developing. technology that that started um making. farming a lot more efficient all of a. sudden um you know people could do a lot. of other things other than farming and.

then you know all of a sudden we have. big entertainment Industries and big. Financial Industries and you know. barbecue cook offs man I'll tell you. that second some of those guys got the. weekend off they was grilling [ __ ] that. I knew but yeah so it's all about like. us um yeah everybody leveling up to be. managers and then also everybody you. know just way more ideas are going to. start happening like way more ideas are. going to start becoming reality and so. um it'll be I think it'll be pretty. exciting like I think it's just like a. lot more stuff is going to happen yeah.

what what what companies do you see like. are there companies where um you're the. youngest billionaire in the world ever. or no is that true is that a weird. statement we can take it out if it is. I'm not trying to talk about your money. I mean you you but you are is that true. uh according to like some Publications. but I don't know as a young entrepreneur. right and you've been very successful. you know the. self-made um billionaire and we can take. the word billionaire out later if you.

decide you don't want it in um I just. don't know how certain people feel about. that um and the founder of of of scale. AI where do you invest like are you. investing your money in certain places. like certain fields that you see. continuing to do well um so I most of. almost all of what I'm focused on is. like how do we scale how do we make it. super successful but. um and make sure that we you know one of. the things I'm I think is really. important is like how do we make sure we. create as much opportunity through AI as.

possible like how do we make sure. there's as much jobs how do we make sure. that everything that we're talking about. actually is what happens because I think. no someone's going to have to really. work to make sure all these jobs show up. and all the all the stuff actually. happens the way we're talking about so. there's going to be new industries that. are going to pop up even totally yeah. yeah I mean I think like just in the. same way that um you know it's hard. nobody could have really predicted that. podcasting was going to be this huge. thing and this huge cultural movement. yes true um but but it is one and it's.

amazing it's like awesome and uh and. that's going to happen in like little. ways in all sorts of different. Industries um and that's going to be. it's going to be really exciting uh what. are some of the things that excite you. about technology right now like what are. where do you see like Ai and technology. in five years 10 years um yeah so um. some of the areas I think are really uh. are really exciting so one is definitely. everything to do with Healthcare and. biology that that's moving really really. fast and kind of as we were talking.

about like I I think legitimately in our. lifetimes we could see cancer being. cured we could see heart disease being. cured like we could see some really. crazy leaps and advancements um in that. area which is which is super duper. exciting could it create a way that we. could live forever do you think uh it's. just a there's definitely people working. on that um you know uh there's so this. is getting kind of crazy and very sci-fi. but um some people think that there's.

there's a way for us to keep rewinding. the clocks on our cells so that we'll. always feel young and like all of our. cells will actually always stay young um. it's I think scientifically possible but. um and and I think if we can get there. that's obviously incredible um so. there's people on that I think that's uh. at at the very least I think we'll be. able to lengthen um our our lifespans.

pretty dramatically and and maybe we. could get to that wow yeah yeah because. I always Envision this de there's like a. time where it's like okay this group. lives forever and this group doesn't and. there's just that parting of two. different way you know people head not. in just into the end zone of the Lord. and then there's other people just. loiter who are going to be Ling around. for a long time and what that would be. like that cut off you know I yeah it's. kind of I mean I I'm not that worried. about it but it it sucks to be that cut. off we like maybe maybe yeah maybe yeah.

that's a weird it's a weird thought um. because it would also be brave I mean. you'd be the astronaut I mean dying. you're just an astronaut really into The. Ether you don't know what's going on you. know totally you a Lewis and Clark at a. lord at that point you out there yeah. and then if you stay you kind of are. always going to be know you'll always. know kind of what's going to happen in a. way cuz you'll be here yeah which would. be exciting I think think but then after. a while you might be like dang what. happens if you die that's the bravest. choice you can make that's true probably.

yeah how do do you see AI having any. effect on. religion yeah I think um I think one of. the things. that uh something I believe is like I I. think that as AI becomes. um uh you know this is one of the things. I think is really important is that we. are are able to educate people about AI. and help people understand it better and. better and better because um I think. it's this scary thing that nobody.

understands or people feels like a. boogeyman or you know feels like is is. this just this like thing that's going. to take my job like that makes it scary. and I think that that affects people's. you know spirituality that affects how. people you know contextualize themselves. with the world yeah you could lose your. purpose if your purpose is a job that. you feel it's going to disappear yeah. that could already be causing you to. feel that way yeah so but I think I. think if you if we can explain AI more.

and ultimately like um like it is it is. a cool technology but it's not that. magical it's just you know it's like. data and you crunch that data and then. you get these algorithms and so it's not. like um it's not uh yeah some people. talk about in this crazy way but but I. think as long as we are able to explain. what AI is and also explain what. opportunities it creates over time and. to me it's about getting this like. relationship between humanity and AI. right like how do we make sure that this.

is something that enables us as humans. to be more human and us as humans to do. more and experience more and be better. and all these things versus something. that kind of um is Scary or will take. over or anything like that uh I think. that's really important what's a place. like so if I go to chat gbt is that. scale AI is that the same thing it's. different that's so we so we're actually. kind of under the hood powering all the. different models and AIS so are are all.

the different AI like systems under the. hood yeah yeah so we help power Chachi. BT and open AI we help power mostly from. the data perspective so and do we know. if the answer came from your company or. other companies if we ask it a question. like how do we uh there's probably no. way to like literally tell but yeah we. help power you know opening eyes and we. help power Google's AI systems and. meta's AI systems and um help power all. the all the major AI systems yeah how.

can a regular person just at their home. right say there's a guy who's been. listening to this today he wants to go. home today and he just wants to learn a. little bit of how AI Works he could just. go on the chat GPT and ask it a couple. questions yeah you could ask chaty BT. how AI Works um you could ask it how. what's the history of my town you know. um can you research my last name maybe. in see where it came from um what are uh. like maybe what are some um innovations. that could happen in the next few years. there's different little things you can. just ask it that's how you can start to.

have a relationship with asking and. learning about uh and you seeing what. it's good at what it's not good at like. right now ai is still uh really bad at a. lot of things like most things this is. why this is why I think when people. understand it and really get a feel for. it it stops being a scary because uh. because I think we think about it as. like we think about like the AI from the. movies that are sort of like you know. all powerful and whatnot but uh yeah you. think of it as a robot that's going to. show up and just start driving your. truck around or something and you like. what the [ __ ] do I do you know what I'm.

saying my keys were in my truck you know. I can't even get in my house now like I. think that's the there is this Boogeyman. fear yeah yeah but that's not the truth. it's not the truth and like um yeah. that's not the truth and and it's to me. it's like we have we kind of have the. choice to make sure that also doesn't. become the truth right like we. definitely we in the like people. building AI but just in general. everybody in the world has like like we. should all make sure to use it as.

something that like an assistant as. something that like helps us versus um. versus think about it in like a in like. a scary way well getting to learn and. learn how to use it small ways whatever. is certainly a way that you're going to. start to realize what it is yeah and. it's easy to just sit there and say it's. horrible and without trying to use it to. learn about it yeah sometimes I won't. learn about something just so I can. continue to say it's a boogie man you. know cuz it kind of gives me an excuse. yeah you know if I if I choose not to. learn about it in my own life um chat. GPT has become like a proprietary like.

like name like Band-Aids or. um pingpong is that okay that it's like. that yeah I think that's that's totally. fine I mean I think basically like we. there will probably be more AIS over. time that people get used to and use and. um like anything you know there will. always be like a uh in America there'll. always be a bunch of options for. consumers and a bunch of options for. people to use and they'll be good at.

different things right so I think like. um right now we're just in the very. early Innings of AI but over time we're. going to have you know just like how um. uh for for anything like for for clothes. or for you know energy drinks or for. whatever like different people have. different tastes because there's going. to be different things that different. AIS are good at and other things that. other AIS are bad at is AI right now. smarter than. Humanity no um yeah so I think what AI.

is good at because it's ingested all of. the the facts right like it's ingested. this like the body of water is really. really big and it's ingested so many. different facts and information from all. of humanity it definitely like knows. more um or like you know just like how. Google knows a lot more than than any. person does so it definitely knows a lot. more um but it's not like you know.

there's there's a very very there's tons. of things that humans can do that AI is. just like fundamentally incapable of. doing so um so it's not uh it's not like. a I don't think you can even like. measure one versus the other they're. sort of like very different kinds of. intelligence could AI just create a. better AI at a certain point like could. it just be like hey AI create a better. Ai and it could do. that yeah this is a good question. actually this is this is another really. uh Hot Topic in the AI industry is is.

can you get AIS to start doing some of. the engineering and some of the. Improvement on its own that's scary cuz. then it's making kind of choices then. it's becoming the Lifeguard it's. becoming the water and the uh Coast. Guard yeah so this is something I mean. my personal thought is I think this is. something we should kind of watch a. little bit and we should make sure that. humans always are have the sort of like. steering wheel and the the sort of uh.

control over um because like you're. saying you know it's a kind of a. slippery slope before that gets kind of. uh you know a little a little weird but. um but I don't I think that like we can. we we can maintain that we can make sure. that we don't let the the AI just sort. of like keep iterating and improving on. its own yeah and in the end you can. always shut off your computer and phone. and go for a walk huh. yes yeah totally it's not like it's. going to come out and just you know. slurp you off or something if you're. trying to be straight or whatever you. know and it's a man I don't even know is.

AI male or female I don't think it has a. I don't think it has a gender wow yeah. wonder if it'll decide one day it like. hey I'm Frank you know well there's. there are companies that try to program. the AI to adopt various personas and um. oh yeah I got the Indian GPS guy turn. right you know like uh like on on meta. on like Instagram or whatever you can. get uh you get an AI that has aquaus. voice for example oh that's cool yeah um. and it's funny you know the Aquafina AI.

is funny um um you're a self-made. billionaire which is pretty fascinating. congratulations I think you know to have. a um I I think that money is energy kind. of and it kind of flows to certain. places and stuff and uh congratulations. that's got to be fascinating was that. scary when that kind of. happened you just made some money was. that kind of a scary thing did you guys. grow up really well like what was that. like no no no I grew up I think like. solidly middle class um like we weren't. we you know we weren't uh we weren't.

like uh you weren't trapping or anything. you guys were yeah yeah but but like you. know solidly middle class and I think. like uh I mean one of the one of the um. one of the crazy things about tech and. the tech industry is that you know we've. been we've been just sort of like. building this thing up over time but one. of the things that that happened is AI. all of a sudden became like there was so. much progress in Ai and it became the. biggest thing in the world right like I.

mean um all of a sudden you know. anywhere I go I'm everybody is talking. about AI it didn't used to be like that. when I started the company um uh AI was. just kind of a like a a niche topic and. now it's like you know anywhere you go. like I'll just be walking around and I. hear like random conversations about. sure cat gbt and AI and robots and all. this stuff and uh and so it's kind of. been crazy to be experience that and be. a part of that wave and kind of like you.

know I started working on this company. almost nine years ago so it was like. when I started working on was kind this. obscure thing and you know I always knew. that it was going to become bigger but I. I could have never predicted what was. going to happen to AI yeah yeah it's. fascinating it's almost like you were. just standing on like the Bingo number. they got called kind of us exact by time. yeah yeah um and it's surreal it's. surreal when that happens oh yeah I can. only imagine that um are your parents. pretty proud of you what's that.

like yeah so at first they were like you. know at first I dropped out of college. right oh yeah true yeah and an Asian. culture that's like not a thing you do. right not good yeah yeah that is like. the opposite of being Asian well well my. parents both have phds um my two BR I. have two older brothers they both have. phds uh like everybody in my family has. they gone through all of schooling yeah. they're like Alex is not doing. good it might have been Spanish but. they're like yeah Alex is not doing good.

yeah so they were they were pretty. worried at first and I kind of um I told. them a little bit of a white lie that I. was like oh no I'm I'm just going I'm. GNA go back you know I'm gonna fin I'm. GNA get this uh like Tech thing out of. my system and I'll go back and I'll. finish school um obviously that hasn't. happened yet but uh but yeah they were. worried of her now they're now they're. super proud yeah they're super duper. proud and I uh yeah and I I owe. everything to my parents you know. they're they're awesome and like.

seriously they're they're my parents are. super brainy they're uh they're both. physicists they would like teach me. about physics growing up and teach me. about math and uh that's what let me uh. be so good at the competitions you know. that's cool yeah I don't even I think do. um are your parents are your. grandparents from China or no my. grandparents are from China. did your does your family have a lot of. Chinese culture so this is kind of. interesting this is true for a lot of um. Chinese Americans is that there's kind.

of like there's uh Chinese culture and. then that's kind of almost like it's. very different from the Chinese. Communist party and the current. government because basically one way to. think about China is I mean China has. been is a is a culture and a. civilization that's been around for like. thousands and thousands of years right. so it's that there's a very. long-standing culture oh yeah but that's. very different from the current.

Communist party and the current. Communist Regime oh for sure I think. most people probably think of I mean I. don't know it's funny I never thought. about that I definitely think about him. as different I definitely don't think if. I see a Chinese person I don't think oh. that's a communist person yeah exactly I. mean that would be yeah that's CRA I. think that's crazy if some people. thought that I just yeah I think. somebody has a crazy long history like. damn um and then maybe almost a do you. feel like there's CH some people in. certain parts of China are almost like a. captured people then is do you think. that's a yeah I mean the the weager that.

we're talking about I mean that's just. like horrible what's happening to them. great I didn't even know about that man. thanks for putting me up on that weager. game yeah yeah no it's uh I mean some of. the stuff like I mean we don't really. like first of all the world is a is a. huge place and there's like all sorts of. both great and bad things happening all. over the place yeah but um but yeah no I. think that like I think a big part of. this is like we want to make sure we. have we have governments that uh that. believe in democracy believe in Liberty. these kinds of things.

yeah with being somebody that's able to. be smart and conceptualize stuff do you. start to get in do you have any insight. this might be the last question that I. have for you um do you have any insight. on like the afterlife or what happens. like I never really thought about it for. like talking to like a real math guy. about that yeah I think um like What's. the total like what's the Su zero game. or whatever you know what's the yeah. yeah yeah I guess like the way I've.

always thought about it because um. partially because both my parents were. physicists was like I kind of always. feel like people live on with their. ideas and they're kind of like like what. are the things that the things they put. out into the world that's kind of how. you live on cuz like in in math like. everything you learn about is like a. theorem named after a different person. or uh or a sort of idea named after some. you know the first mathematician or the. first scientist or whatever to figure.

that out um like Einstein lives on. because. Bagels that was a shitty joke but thank. you um oh yeah because yeah because the. yeah all E equals MC squ all that kind. of stuff yeah so so I know what that. kind of stuff is Jesus sorry but it's s. pretending no no no exactly ex I'm squ. that's Einstein and so so I think I. always feel like people um yeah you live. on by your ideas and and kind of what.

you put out into the world um and that's. kind of always how I've thought about it. um so you don't get some deeper thought. about like like since your brain is able. to be because you have probably a unique. brain right and more I mean you know and. everybody has a unique brain but I've. just never asked somebody with your I've. never asked your brain this question. yeah do you do you get some further. insight about like what you think. happens when you die you know well I. think that one of the things that gets. talked about a lot in Silicon Valley um.

where I live especially is uh like the. simulation whether it's all simulation. and whether like uh I do you watch Rick. and Morty I don't watch it but I'll. start there's uh there's there's some. there's some episodes where it gets into. this and I think it it covers it in a in. a pretty good way but like you know what. if every what if all of humanity is just. like a. like a almost like a an experiment or a. video game that that some other. civilization is running yeah that's kind. of the one that uh that [ __ ] with.

particularly like people's mind and Tech. a lot because we're like every day all. day every day we're out there trying to. make computers and make simulations and. make things that are that are like more. and more sophisticated and advanced and. capable and so kind of the mind [ __ ] is. like oh what if everything we know is is. just kind of the the you know a. simulation from some other civilization. or if we Advanced it enough that we're. able to make this happen and seem real. yeah exactly yeah exactly so you know I.

think I think one of the things that. that um like with AI and with a bunch of. other things like in well even just in. the past like 30 40 years video games. have gotten so much more realistic right. crazy realistic yeah so we've seen that. happen like in a hundred years like. would we be able to simulate something. that feels pretty realistic I mean. probably right could we be avatars yeah. for some for some other thing yeah.

exactly damn dude I'll say this my. avatar is a pervert. brother um have you met any guys like uh. jinen Hong is that his name yeah yeah. you have yeah yeah totally wow what is. it like when you meet some of these guys. you met Elon yet met Elon yeah met Elon. a few years ago yeah wow got to know him. he's the [ __ ] he's the he's turning. into Jensen's the goat kany he is he is. yeah he always wears this leather you. see that leather jacket yeah he uh we.

hosted this dinner um hang is that a. Chinese name hang hang yeah he's. Taiwanese I think yeah um or Taiwanese. American but uh he uh he in in 2018 so. when we were like a a baby company uh we. threw this dinner in uh in Silicon. Valley and uh and we just kind of I kind. of YOLO invited him um this is you years. and years ago and uh and I didn't expect. it but he said yes and he came to our.

dinner and uh he he came uh he came it. was it was like at this restaurant in in. Silicon Valley and uh he came and just. told the craziest stories he um he like. went to he went to boarding school I. think he's probably told the story but. like he went to boarding school um and. his parents when they came to America. they they they wanted to send him to. boarding school but they didn't um and. so they just sent him to like the first. boarding school that they they like. found on Google or something or like.

found it wasn't even Google at the time. so that that they like heard about and. that boarding school happened to be um. kind of like a rehab boarding school so. it was like he was like this so [ __ ]. it's a halfway house he's just in there. he's there learning with people who are. um detoxing yeah so he he told me the. story about he told the story about how. he was like he was just like this this. kid um at you know this boarding school. that where like everybody else had these. like all these crazy backgrounds and he.

like he got by and made made his way. through that school by like uh by like. doing everyone's math homework and like. you know kind of like wheeling and. dealing that way oh yeah and you could. see that he he learned how to like wheel. and deal and sell and all this stuff. from all the way from way back then cuz. he was he was I mean his his his story. is pretty crazy really but U we have to. research him a little bit maybe we get. to talk with him one day yeah Jensen. Jensen's awesome um yeah all these.

people in Tech they're like uh I mean. they're all real people but they all. have the craziest backgrounds yeah yeah. man it's just so funny whenever I met. you I just didn't know I figured that. since you were with Sam Alman that you. were probably a tech guy you know and um. but yeah I didn't. know uh I think maybe somebody said he's. in the AI verse you know but you just. seem like such a totally Norm like I. would not have thought that um you were. just I don't know I guess you think like. somebody's going to be they're going to. be like super quiet or you know not have.

a lot of different thoughts but yeah it. was cool man we had a good time I'm glad. we got to yeah link up yeah totally that. was cool bro you're probably like my you. might even be my first Chinese friend I. don't think second probably Bobby Lee oh. who's denying it but he'll come around. um Alexander wangman thank you so much. dude I bet your uh whole family is super. proud of you um yeah just exciting man. thank you for coming and spending time. with us and just helping us uh learn and.

thank um no thank you this was awesome. and I I think like I mean we were. talking about this before but um I just. want to make sure that like people all. around the world especially Americans. aren't scared of AI because it's going. to be it's going to be really cool and. it's going to be amazing but um we need. to remove the boogeyman component and uh. and thanks for helping me do that yeah. man I think I I definitely feel. differently about it I feel like it's a. tool that I can use right and even I. don't know how to use it so I'm trying. to figure out you know um one more.

question how do you keep it from. becoming like a like a advertisement. trap house like the internet's become. like the internet's just popups and ads. and [ __ ] Best Buy trying to like beat. you over the head on some [ __ ] like how. do you stop that how do you keep that. out of like you guys' Waters or do you. have to go there at some point to make. money yeah first I'm hoping that that uh. we avoid like the AI industry as a whole. avoids advertising as much as possible. because um because it's kind of it's. very different like it is a tool that.

that people can use and people can use. to start businesses or make movies or. make all these like different ideas. happen and I I would much rather it be a. tool that doesn't get sort of um uh that. doesn't become yeah like an advertising. Thing versus like I wanted to make sure. it's a tool that helps people first and. foremost um so that's that I I think. this is there's kind of like a a choice. here and uh and we as an AI industry. just got to I think make some of the. right choices yeah I think there would.

be value in staying as pure as you could. if you could find a way to you know if. there's other money to be made on the. side it almost seems sometimes like it. could be a trap you know yeah yeah and I. think that's that's like uh you know I I. want to make sure that uh that people. don't feel like they're being used by. the AIS I think that'd be a really. that'd be really bad if we ended up. there so we you know and I that I don't. think we need to make it like that at. all like I think we can we can make sure. the AI is helping you do things is is. super helpful super um is like a thought.

partner um is it is like an like an. assistant like those are things that I. think we want to make sure AI stays gang. baby Wang Gang Alexander Wang man thanks. so much bro yeah thanks so much for. having me yeah it was awesome man Danny. Kane shout out to Danny um who came up. and Danny lives in Franklin right we got. to get to spend some time with him yeah. lives in Franklin whenever you're out. therey shout out to uh Alex brtz who uh. who we met through yeah and who else on. your team's here man today uh we have.

Joe Osborne yeah and uh and we have. Danny's whole Cru so Arion and uh. Clayton yeah nice we have to get a group. picture we'll put it up at the end um. thank you guys uh have a good one. man I feel I'm falling like these leaves. I must be Cornerstone. [Music]. oh but when I reach that ground I'll. share this pce of mind I found I can. feel it in my.

bones it's going to.