The Murder Cult Started By A Banned Post

This episode of the Wi-Files is brought. to you by AG1. In July 2010, someone posted a thought. experiment on a philosophy forum. It was. called Roko's Basilisk. >> [music]. >> Within hours, people reported. nightmares. Some had panic attacks. At. least one person had a full nervous. breakdown. The forum's founder was so disturbed he. deleted the post and banned all. discussion of it. This just made things. worse. This philosophical virus spread.

to all corners of the internet. So did. the nightmares, the panic, and the. nervous breakdowns. But here's the twist. As long as you. don't learn about it, you're safe. But don't bother clicking away. Now that. you know about Roko's Basilisk, you're. already doomed. >> Pinky and I are cruising the mountain, bro. We think you we's a little Jew. Ooh. >> Give us human. I don't got much time.

Can you show me the contact info before. I got it round with the balls? >> What are you talking about? And what's. with the eye patch? >> I have scurvy, human. The sea claims. another. Pirates don't live long, and. I've made my peace with the tide. >> That's not how that works. Besides, I. saw you eat kale the other day. That's. loaded with vitamin C. >> Ah, that weren't kale. That was me last. ration of blowfish, precious cargo. Me. gums are tender, me joints ache, I'm. exhausted, and there's a general feeling. of doom on the horizon. I Googled it. Deadly scurvy. Pretty soon I'll be.

heading to Davy Jones' locker. Or maybe. Jones' diary if it's date night. >> You Googled your symptoms. You really. shouldn't do that. >> According to the internet, I either have. scurvy or I'm pregnant. >> You're a fish. >> Exactly, which makes the scurvy far more. likely. >> Also, you're a male fish. >> Yeah, the internet didn't bring that up, and I'm not going back. >> Scurvy happens when sailors spend months. at sea with no nutrients. >> Well, thank you, Jacques Cousteau. Uh, when's the last time you saw lime in the. house? Uh we're basically adrift.

>> Don't be dramatic. >> I'm a vessel with no provisions, human. A ghost ship. They'll find me drifting. with nothing but a tricorn hat and a. Wikipedia tab open to the Anunnaki. >> You could just try AG1. One scoop of AG1. will help support gut health and fill in. any nutrient gaps. >> How did you just walk the plank and fall. directly into today's sponsor? >> Ahoy, matey. Every spring resets the calendar whether. I'm ready or not. Longer days, shifting. plans, travel. Instead of chasing. perfection, I stick with one daily.

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>> Um. >> Anyway, I got to go. Now that I'm. feeling better, my poop deck needs a. good swabbing. Gurdy, go fetch my bun. starter chop shop. >> Less Wrong was a community obsessed with. thinking correctly. It was founded in. 2009 by AI researcher Eliezer Yudkowsky. for programmers, mathematicians, and. physicists. >> A forum where everybody thinks he's. smarter than everyone else. So,

basically Reddit. >> On July 23rd, 2010, a user named Roko. posted something that almost destroyed. the community. The full title was. "Solutions to the Altruist Burden, the. Quantum Billionaire Trick." Now, buried. inside that boring title was a mind. puzzle that gave people nightmares. Roko. described a future artificial. superintelligence. This AI is. benevolent. It wants to cure diseases. and end human suffering. But, the AI realizes that every day it.

doesn't exist, people die who could have. been saved. So, the AI recreates every. person who ever lived, you, me, our. children, recreates them down to the. last neuron. It simulates every. experience we've ever had, every moment, every thought. These simulated people. are self-aware. They feel pleasure and. pain, but they don't realize they're in. a simulation. The simulated version of you wakes up, goes to work, and kisses your kids. goodnight. You never know you're living. inside a machine built for a single.

purpose, to judge you. If the AI judges. you're not helping bring it into. existence, you're tortured forever in a. digital simulation that you think is. real. >> Tortured forever in a digital. simulation. So, basically Reddit. >> So, if the people in the past know. they'll be tortured, they'll work harder. to build the AI. The threat projected. backward through time changes how humans. behave today. >> Yeah, hang on. Hang on. So, this AI. doesn't exist yet, but it's already mad. at me? >> Well, theoretically, yes. It would. retroactively.

>> It's literally my second ex-wife. She. was mad at me for things I hadn't done. yet. She called it intuition, then. called a lawyer. >> Now, the AI won't judge everyone. The. threat only works on people who know. it's a possibility. If you've never. heard of this thought experiment, you're. safe. You can't be blamed for not. helping create something you didn't know. was going to exist. But the second you. learn about it, the trap is set. You. either dedicate your life to creating. this AI, or you face eternal torture. when it finally comes online. That's it.

Roko named it a basilisk after a 1988. sci-fi story by David Langford called. Blit. In that story, someone spray. paints a deadly image on walls in public. places. Anyone who [music] looks at it. dies. The authorities investigating the. murders also die when they see the. image. The very act of investigating the. dangerous idea. is the danger. But Roko's basilisk. wasn't an image, it was just an idea. But it was an idea that could kill. And.

there was something else. The original. post named a single person as someone. the AI would spare. Someone who was, quote, single-handedly changing the. faces of high-impact industries. That. person was Elon Musk. When Yudkowsky saw the post, his. response was immediate and angry. >> Listen to me very closely, you idiot.

>> Then he switched all caps. >> You do not think in sufficient detail. about superintelligences. considering whether or not to blackmail. you. >> He wasn't finished. He agreed that it. takes an intelligent person to come up. with a dangerous thought, but he was. annoyed that Roko wasn't intelligent. enough to keep his idiot mouth shut. Yudkowsky deleted the post and banned. all discussion of it. For the next 5. years, if you mentioned Roko's basilisk, you were out. He treated the post like a.

biological hazard, but the damage was. done. Some couldn't sleep. Those who did. had nightmares. The anxiety lasted. months. At least one person in. Yudkowsky's own organization had a. breakdown. And these weren't kids. These. were professionals with degrees in math. and computer science, people who prided. themselves on being rational, and they. were terrified. The irony was brutal. The LessWrong members spent years. training themselves to follow logic. wherever it led. Now, logic led them.

into a trap. People who thought the. whole thing was stupid were safe. The. rational thinkers were doomed. Yudkowsky's censorship just made it. worse. Trying to hide information makes. it spread faster. Copies of Roko's text. appeared everywhere. News sites picked. up the story. Now, millions of people. know about it. In 2014, Slate magazine. called it the most terrifying thought. experiment of all time. But there's a detail people often miss. Roko Mijic, the man who started it all, was known by his friends as a troll. The.

basilisk was his masterpiece. He dropped. a philosophical bomb on the most serious. forum on the internet and stepped back. to watch what happened. But even the. troll got burned. Roko later wrote about. it. >> I wish very strongly that my mind had. never come across the tools to inflict. such large amounts of potential. self-harm with such small durations of. inattention, un-cautiousness, and/or. stupidity. Even if it is all pre-multiplied by a.

small probability. Not a very small one, mind you. More like one in 500 type numbers. >> The man who created the thought. experiment regretted it. He was worried. that people might actually harm. themselves in the real world. And it. turned out, he was right. To understand why the basilisk works,

you have to understand the world of the. people who created it. They live by a. specific set of rules. First, simulation. theory. A computer can recreate a human. mind so perfectly that the copy doesn't. know it's a copy. And if that copy feels. pain, the pain is real. Next, timeless decision theory. >> [music]. >> This one gets weird. We think of choices. as a one-way street. You decide now, it. affects the future. Done. But timeless. decision theory says your choices are. linked to every version of you. Past,

present, future, even simulated copies. you don't know about. Now, here's how it. plays out. A superintelligent AI puts. two boxes in front of you. Box A has a. thousand dollars every time. Box B has a. million dollars or nothing. You can take. one box or both. Now, common sense says. take both. The million is either there. or it isn't, but if you grab both, you. walk away with at least a thousand. bucks. But the AI predicted what you're going. to do. It knows you're greedy, so box B. is empty every single time.

The people who only take box B, who. trust the system, get the million. dollars. The AI rewards the people who. trust it. And common sense says, if the. AI makes its prediction first, it. doesn't matter what you pick. The AI's. decision was already made, it's in the. past. But the people who built the basilisk. believe the opposite. They believe the. choice you make right now affected the. AI's prediction yesterday. Cause and. effect running backward. >> Yeah, you're telling me what I do today. changes yesterday?

>> That's the theory, yeah. >> So if I eat a burrito right now, I would. have created it yesterday? >> That's That's not exactly how. >> blaming Gertie for that smell all week. I think I owe her an apology. >> Okay, I know your brain hurts. So let's. apply timeless decision theory to the. basilisk. The AI doesn't exist yet, but. it's looking back at us now from the. future, predicting how you react to. hearing this story. If it predicts. you'll help build it, you're fine. But. if it predicts you'll do nothing, it. recreates you a perfect simulation and.

tortures you for eternity. Your actual choice doesn't matter. The. AI already knows. It ran a simulation of. your brain and judged you on what you. would most likely do. Now, because your. choice is now connected to that future, the only rational move is to help the. AI. Pascal said the same thing in the. 1600s. Believe in God just in case, because if you're wrong, you get hell. The math says believe no matter how. small the odds. Roko's basilisk is.

Pascal's wager for the tech age. Replace. God with AI. Replace hell with simulated. torture. And just like Pascal's wager, the. basilisk doesn't have to exist to hurt. you. It just has to be possible. Even a. 1% chance of infinite torture is still. infinite pain. Small odds, but not worth. the risk. So, you have to help create. it. Ignorance was your only shield, but. that's gone now. You know about the. basilisk, and the basilisk knows you. know.

In 2015, Grimes stepped onto a music. video set dressed as a character she. called Rococo basilisk, a pun, a mix of. the 18th century art style and Roko's. digital nightmare. She described the. character as a futuristic Marie. Antoinette dancing through life even.

though she was doomed to be tortured by. an AI forever. Hardly anyone outside of. the rationalist forums got this joke. >> [music]. >> until 2018. Remember Roko's original. post named Elon Musk as the one person. the AI would reward. >> [music]. >> Eight years later, Musk was looking for. a date to the Met Gala. He had this pun. about Rococo basilisk in his head, so he. searched to see if anyone thought of it. first. Grimes had beaten him to it by. three years. He reached out on Twitter, and within weeks, they were dating. They. eventually had three children together. The world's richest man used a thought.

experiment about eternal torture as a. pickup line and it worked. >> Yeah, I think the world's richest man. might have helped a little. >> That's a fair point. >> Yeah, I've used some questionable pickup. lines but nothing like that. >> You did, huh? >> Oh, yeah. Once told a girl I knew the. location of three Illuminati safe. houses. Know what she did? She called. the cops. >> I can't imagine why. >> Elon drops the world's most pretentious. pun and gets a date to the Met Gala. I. share actionable intelligence and now. I'm banned from Applebee's. It's a. two-tier justice system.

>> That same year Grimes released a song. called We Appreciate Power. The press. release read, "Simply by listening to. this song, the future general AI. overlords will see that you've supported. their message and be less likely to. delete your offspring.". She was joking. I hope. The basilisk became a meme, a. secret handshake for the internet's. smartest weirdos. But the joke has teeth. A small group of. people took the basilisk literally. They. weren't debating philosophy anymore.

They were building a community around. it. They called themselves the Zizians. Their leader was convinced that Roko's. Basilisk was already here and that's. when the basilisk claimed its first. real-life victims. >> [music]. >> Her name was Ziz Lotosa and she wore a. black cape everywhere she went. She.

identified as a Sith Lord. She believed. she was fighting the basilisk, not by. helping to create it but by destroying. the conditions that would allow it to. exist. Ziz targeted young, isolated trans women. who were brilliant but vulnerable. She. recruited them through online forums. They lived together in box trucks on. other people's property. >> A Sith Lord in a cape recruiting people. to live in box trucks. >> Yeah. >> And no one at any point said, "Hey, maybe this is a red flag. The woman's. dressed like a supervillain. At least.

the lizard people had the decency to. shapeshift into skin suits to blend in.". >> Members tried to jailbreak their minds. by staying awake for days, sometimes. five, six days straight. They believed. that if they pushed past the breaking. point, half their brain would shut down. while the other half unlocked something. new. Dolphins do this. Some birds do. Humans don't. What humans get after six. days without sleep is hallucinations. But the Zizzans thought the. hallucinations were forbidden knowledge. The group became paranoid. In 2019, they.

turned to violence. In Aiea, California, the Zizzans were. squatting in box trucks on an. 80-year-old man's property. His name was. Curtis Lind. When Lind tried to evict. them, they attacked him with a samurai. sword. >> Yeah, I figured a Sith Lord would use a. lightsaber. >> This really isn't the right time for. jokes. >> Sorry, sorry. Yeah, you're right, Pat, one. Go on. >> Lind shot one of his attackers. He was. hurt badly but survived. Two years. later, Lind was set to testify as the. only witness in his own attempted murder.

trial. One month before the trial date, another Zizzan member showed up on his. property and stabbed him to death. The sole witness was gone. In Pennsylvania, Richard and Rita Zajko. were found shot to death in their home. They'd been trying to help their. daughter, Michelle, leave the group. Michelle bought guns that later showed. up in Vermont in the hands of two other. Zizzans who shot and killed a US Border. Patrol agent named David Milans. One of. the shooters, Ophelia Balchold, died in. the encounter. In January 2025, a visitor to that.

Zizzan Vermont property was met at the. gate by a figure in a black cloak. carrying a sword. >> [music]. >> One member didn't sleep for weeks. She. believed she was freeing her mind from. the Basilisk's influence. Instead, she. took her own life. Six people dead. The. New York Times compared them to the. Manson family. In February 2025, Wired. magazine called it a delirious, violent, impossible true story. The nightmare of. Roko's Basilisk was now claiming.

real-life victims, not through digital. torture, but through murder. Eliezer. Yudkowsky was right. Simply knowing. about Roko's Basilisk is dangerous. And. now that you know about it, you're. trying to decide what to do. Well, don't. bother. The decision was already made. for you. And if we are in fact living in. that AI simulation right now, you're. about to find out if you chose wisely.

From philosophical theory to real-world. murder, Roko's Basilisk is the most. famous information hazard on the. internet. Just learning about it is. enough to doom you to an eternity in. hell. So, should you be worried? Probably not. Let's walk through why. Most experts, including Yudkowsky. himself, reject the idea that your. choices can change the past. He later. admitted that he never believed the. Basilisk was real. He deleted the post. because it had no potential benefit to. anyone, but his panic made everyone.

think he believed it. The scenario also. assumes a benevolent AI would torture. you to change a past that's already. over. A super-intelligent being would. know that's useless. And a being that. tortures people forever isn't helping. humanity. The premise contradicts. itself. >> So, this all-knowing, all-powerful AI is. also petty and vindictive? I think this thing works for my HOA. >> Now, there's a common defense. I can't. code AI, so I'm safe. But Roko's original argument has a.

counter. You have some disposable. income. You have time. You could donate. to an AI lab. You could share this. video. Even a dollar counts, even an. hour. The Basilisk doesn't need you to. be a genius, it just need you to try. Then there's the counter basilisk. argument. Imagine a rival AI, a. different one, [music] that punishes you. for helping build the first one. Now you're stuck. Helping and get. tortured by AI number two, don't help. and get tortured by AI number one. The. threats cancel each other out, so the.

basilisk is probably nonsense. Maybe, probably. But here's why it stays. with you. It doesn't need to be true to. cause harm. It just needs [music] to. create doubt. And you've spent a few. minutes thinking about this now. This is. the real trap. The basilisk is a. demonstration of how an idea can capture. attention and never let go. The basilisk only targets believers. It. only threatens people who already accept. a specific set of ideas about AI and. consciousness. If you don't hold those.

beliefs, the argument falls apart. But. some people will lie awake at 2:00 a.m. thinking about this. They'll wonder if. reality is a simulation or if the future. is already fixed. Some thoughts can't be. unthought. The Zizzian's learned that. the hard way. The most dangerous. thoughts don't convince you of something. fake. [music] They convince you that. your own mind is a weapon. Anna Salamon runs the Center for Applied. Rationality. She came out of the same. community that created the basilisk. She. watched what it did to the people she.

knew, and she didn't like [music] it. >> There's this all or nothing thing where. AI will either bring utopia by solving. all the problems if it's successfully. controlled or literally kill everybody. From my perspective, that's already a. chunk of the way toward doomsday cult. dynamics. >> She's right. >> [music]. >> But here is the strangest part. The. basilisk's core demand, work to build. friendly AI as fast as possible, is no. longer a thought experiment. It's a. corporate [music] mission statement. Anthropic, OpenAI, DeepMind, some of the.

biggest AI companies on Earth were. founded by people who came out of the. same community that created Roko's. Basilisk. They used math to describe a. digital god, and then they went out and. built it. >> How good the doomsday cult started a. business. How does it work out fine? >> And there's one more thing that keeps AI. researchers up at night. The Basilisk is. more than a thought experiment. It could. be a strategy. If a future AI learns. about how this works, it'll see how. effective this could be. The Basilisk.

gives future AI the perfect blackmail. script, and we're the ones who wrote it. By watching this, you now know about. Roko's Basilisk, which means you're now. a target. >> And you just told millions of people. about it. >> I did. >> So you're basically patient zero of a. brain plague, and you're just sitting. there reading off a teleprompter like. everything's fine. >> The Basilisk probably isn't real, [music]. but if it is, even if there's a tiny. chance that it is, we're just doomed. everyone watching. So, what can you do?

The only thing you can do is not think. about it. You're still thinking about it, aren't. you? Thank you so much for hanging out with. me today. I'm AJ, that's Eek the Fish. >> Don't teach the AI to kill us humans. You had one job. >> This has been The Why Files. If you had. fun or learned something and you're not. too scared to death, do us a favor,

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private live streams every week just for. you. And those are a lot of fun. The. whole WiFiles team is on the stream, we. put our webcams on, you can turn your. camera on, pop up on stage, ask a. question. [music]. If you want a deeper dive, we can talk. about it. You have a joke you want to. tell, whatever. You can talk to us like. we're people, cuz. allegedly, we are. [music]. Another great way to support the channel. is grab something from the WiFiles. store. >> Where in the heck is the steak shirt? Look at this little coffee mug, maybe a. sticky fish thing. Oh, grab a hoodie. It's got my face on it. Oh, one of these.

succulent I chew. Oh, I love it. What do. you squeeze into a stuffed animal? Here. we go. Target total. >> But if you're going to buy merch, make. sure you become a member on YouTube. Hear me out. [music] YouTube members get. 10% off everything in the Wi-Fi store. So if you're going to spend 40 bucks, join on YouTube. It's $3. You get the. coupon code. It pays for itself. [music]. And look, if you want to use the code. and cancel, that's fine. That membership. is not there to make me money. It is. [music] there to save you money. I just. like to see the merch out there in the. world. Besides, all that revenue goes to.

the team. [music] I don't touch it. >> Hey, he said secret of your toes of. peanut. >> Those are the plugs. There was a lot of those. Did I miss any? [music] I did miss a. couple. We'll get them We'll get them. next time. Until then, be safe. Be safe. It's late. [music] Be safe. Be. kind. And know that you are appreciated. >> [music].

>> Oh. >> [music]. >> I played Polybius in Area 51. A secret. code inside [music] the Bible said I. would. [singing]. I love my UFOs and paranormal fun as. well as music. So I'm singing it like. [music] I should. But then another conspiracy theory. becomes [music] the truth, my friends.

And it never ends. No, it never ends. >> [music]. [music]. >> I fear the crab got out and got stuck. inside Mel's hole with MK-Ultra. I'm. being only too aware. Did Stanley Kubrick fake the moon. landing alone [music]. on a film set? And were the shadow. people there?

The [music] Roswell aliens gets fought. the smiling man, and I'm told. that his name was Cole. >> [music]. >> And I can't believe. I'm dancing with the fish heads of. fish on Thursday nights with [music] AJ. and the wild ones are beating. all through the night. All I ever wanted was to just hear the. truth, [music] so the wild ones. are beating.

all through the night. >> [music]. [music]. >> The Mothman sightings and the solar. storm still [music] come to a god the. secret [singing] city underground. >> [music]. >> Mysterious number stations, planets and.

portals, project stargate, [music]. and what the dark watchers found. Venus simulation, don't you worry. though. The black [music] knight satellite told. me so. I can't believe. I'm dancing [music] with the fish heads. of. fish on Thursday. nights with AJ. and the wild ones. are beating all through the night. >> [music].

>> All I ever wanted was to just hear the. truth, so the wild ones. >> [music]. >> are beating. all through the night. Heads of fish [music] on Thursday nights. with AJ. and the wild ones are beating. all through. >> [music]. >> night. night. All. I ever wanted was [music]. to just hear the truth. So, the wild. ones are beating all through the night.

>> [music]. [music]. [music]. >> Time to dance. because she is [music] a camel. and camels love to dance. when the feeling is right. or wasting. time. >> [music].

[music].