The Basement: Travis Taylor | Physics of Skinwalker Ranch

Today we're talking with Dr. Travis. Taylor. He's written 25 science fiction. novels. He holds five advanced degrees. and wrote the textbooks on rocket. science, laser science, and quantum. field theory. He fueled a rocket with. moonshine on National Geographic and. spent 35 years on classified defense. projects. Somehow one guy [music] did. all that. >> And moonshine is the only fuel a. government can't trace. That wasn't a. stunt. That was tradecraft. When the. government needed a scientist for a real. UFO task force, they picked the Redneck.

Rocket [music] Scientist. Eight years. later, he's still the lead scientist at. Skinwalker Ranch. You've seen him on the. show. Today, we're covering what he. pulled out of that messa and why a drone. swarm fell out of the sky at 3,000 ft. Actually, 3,271. ft. All of them. I kind of wanted to tell you why, but. [music] you need to be surprised as I. was. Um, we also talked about his paper. arguing that our universe sits inside a. black hole, which means our entire.

universe is just a tiny black hole in. somebody else's sky. The math works. Oh, a tribal leader. called him to say the sky people are. taking him inside that messa at. Skimwalker Ranch, but he refuses to. remember. [music] And he was like, "Fine." Then 2 days later, a remote. viewer told him [music] the same thing. He goes inside the mesa and refuses to. remember it. I I spent 15 years trying. to forget my second wife. This man has a.

gift. After a conversation, I'll come. back and break down the talk. Let's go. down to the basement. >> Dr. Travis Taylor, welcome to the. basement. >> Hey, thanks, man. You left out black. belt martial artist. Yeah. Scuba diver, pilot, you know, all that stuff. What. system did you train in? >> Uh, well, I've trained in two systems. Uh, Shindagari, which was American. Taekwondo, and then White Tiger Kempo.

>> Kempo myself. Yeah. Four different. systems. >> Wow. Cool. >> Yep. That's great. Love to meet a Kempo. guy. There's not a lot of us around. >> In uh in in 2000, I was the Alabama. state champ in in fighting, open. fighting. Yeah. >> Wow. >> That's a long time ago. >> Long [laughter] time ago. My first black. belt I got from Nick Cerio who got his. from Ed and my fourth black belt I got. from uh Larry Tatum who got his from Ed. >> Oh nice. >> So it's a great lineage. So I want to. start with an apology. So last night I'm.

talking to my wife Jenny. She's like so. are you ready for tomorrow? I said I. don't know man. I don't know if I can. keep up with Dr. Taylor. He's done so. much. And she said well he emailed you. He's a fan of the show. I said what? And. two years ago you sent me an email and I. never saw it. So, I apologize for that. Uh, some of it. says it's about all the stuff I got. wrong. I am that Travis Taylor, chief. scientist at the UAPTF, 35 years DoD, ICA, NASA. I co-own a company now with J. Stratton and Lou Alzando, longtime. friend, colleagues of how off kit, um,

green, etc. Uh, by the way, you say if. you believe in remote viewing or not, you should add a caveat that has been. scientifically proven and you think you. understand the mechanism for how it. works. Loved your episode on the aviary, but folks always get Howal wrong. Bigalow's work at Skimwalker that has. has or has been found there. Modern UAP. work is misunderstood. Uh big art bell. fan. You were the first to analyze arts. parts back in the day with um Art and. Linda a few times. Wrote you back. So,

we're going to get to all that today. And then this this morning I get because. I you know I wrote you back. Thank you. for all that. You only come through. Vegas before going to China Lake, NTS, and somewhere else. I guess we know. where that is. Never stop to smell the. strippers. We can fix that tonight. I. can't wait to meet you, straighten you. out in some nonsense you've been told. Dude, I can talk about anything. Nonsense. I want to get to all that today. All the. stuff I got wrong because you were there. for all of it, man.

>> Well, if I was there for all of it, I. know the people who were firsthand. Uh, and so maybe I can help you put the. pieces together. >> I'd like that. Everyone starts with. skinwalker with you, but I I got to do. this for me. I want to start with. >> the universe in a black hole. >> Is that is that the paper you're working. on for your next PhD? You need another. one of those. >> Uh well well so you know a lot of people. ask me why so many degrees while this. why to do all these different things. For the longest I was trying to get in. the astronaut program and you know you.

look at like Story Musgrave for example. that guy's gotten master's degrees. cuz. he jumps out of planes at, you know, 30,000 ft and all sorts of things, you. know, test pilot, all that stuff. And so. I thought, well, you got to compete with. those guys. You really, you got to bring. your agame. And uh and and also my goal. when I was a kid, uh I was about 10. years old, my dad, who was a master. toolmaker, he brought me a book. It was. a beat up paperback book, and he said,

"Son, I've been reading this. Uh I think. you would really enjoy it." uh why don't. you read it and then we'll talk about. it. And it was Eric Von Danakin's. Chariots of the Gods. >> Wow. >> And so at at I read it, absorbed it, read it again, uh bent pages on it so. that we could come back and talk about. it. and and my dad and I since that time. frame, you know, 48 years ago, uh we we. still to this day u we discuss new ideas.

that we've discovered say in some. religious text or theological book or. even uh just a poem somewhere written in. history and we say well that sounds a. lot like that they're describing. technology, you know, not and that's. what that's what got me into um. understanding the universe. from the. ancient aliens sort of perspective. U. Giorgio Suclas likes to say ancient. astronaut theory. I keep explaining to. him a theory has a much larger. acceptance. This is a hypothesis, right?

Is an ancient astronaut hypothesis. But. that's okay. You know, he's not a. scientist. He's he's a researcher. And. and uh and I applaud everything that. these that the guys have done. Even if. sometimes they go off in weird rabbit. holes and lead you down a path that. isn't the right answer, that's okay. That's how you learn, right? There's a. and and the other reason, so not to skew. too far there, there was a uh when it. came out uh that I had been the chief. scientist of the UAP task force, there.

was a guy who wrote a uh article in I. think it was the Washington Post. It. said government uh it says something. like uh critics mystified or baffled by. the government's choice of guy who. believes in paranormal for the UAP task. force chief scientist. I've never once. said I believe in anything paranormal. I. [clears throat] don't mean like the word. paranormal because if it's paran. paranormal means not within the universe. and if it's uh within the universe or if. it's not within the universe then how. are we seeing it and studying it right?

It's something that's happening as some. as I I don't believe in the word fringe. uh because there's no such thing as. fringe science. Science is science. If. it's an unknown, you got to study it. Um. but in that article, it even the guy even went so far as to. say his alleged education. >> Alleged. >> alleged education. >> He didn't do his homework, man. >> And I'm like, you going to take pictures. of my diplomas on my wall and my study. at home or I'm sure my mom's got. pictures of graduations. uh you know, not like other folks who.

claim they have master's degrees from. somewhere and they can't even prove they. went there. Not not to get into that, but um my my point my point about that. is yeah, he didn't do his homework for a. reason. And that's where um there's. somebody there's an active source of. people whether it's uh a an act of. general conspiracy just culturally or. there's officially something being. driven uh to discredit anybody who's.

asking questions. And for example um uh you know Michael. Shurmer is a smart guy. He's a really. smart guy, >> but his answer is always the skeptical. answer from the start. And that's. actually a violation of the scientific. method. >> Yeah, honestly, >> I think he's getting his directives from. somewhere. >> Yeah, I I So, I think that's the point. and that's that's what I'm going to and. I wanted to make a a point about. something. Uh that's why I brought. brought that up. >> There's a billboard near Wall Street. that's been counting up the national. debt [music] since 1989. Seven digits.

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investor kit explaining how physical. gold and silver can be added to an IRA. or 401k, a free portfolio review with no. obligation or hard sell, and on. qualifying purchases up to $25,000 in. bonus silver. >> I'll give you a real simple example so. that you can use to explain to anybody. Let's say uh uh we have the videos that. have come out and somebody says, "Well, we we believe we can show that why why. invoke UFOs? This could just be some. phenomena, airplane light gleaning off.

of it. You know, as as Will Smith said, light reflecting from Venus, right? Right. And um well, that's fine. That is. a possible solution. It's not the only. solution. What's the square root of. four? >> Right. >> Two. No, it's not. Square root of four. is plus or minus two. >> That's true. >> Think about that. Because minus2* minus2. >> is still four. Mhm. >> There are two solutions to that question. and either one are equally valid. So, is.

it light reflecting off of swamp gas. from Venus or whatever, you know, or. could it be something else? If it is a. solution, a viable solution, it is still. a possibility that has to be. investigated. And so, that's why I. wonder why there's something. saying, well, don't look at that set of. solutions. It's never minus two. It's. always two, >> right? That's the Collins group. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I I I I we call We don't. call them We don't know who they are,

but within the task force, we called. them the antibodies. >> Yeah. >> And uh we would run into the antibodies. often. And we and just for asking. questions, right? and and the uh when we. became the official UAP task force, the. National Defense Authority uh. authorization act NDAA uh of 2019 and. 2020 gave us authority to be briefed at. all classifications. at all all classifications.

So, and and they didn't have to they. didn't have to brief us in and say this. is the technology how it works. But if. we asked them was this you they had to. tell us by law and it said that there's. a felony if they didn't. And we had we. had multiple star um officers tell us. that they would commit the felony before. telling us. >> Of course. Of course they would. >> So that to me that is they're admitting. that they're going to break the law. >> It's it's treason. >> Yeah. Um, >> sorry I got us off on a tangent. That's.

okay. But that's why that's why I I've. tried to learn everything I possibly can. >> uh since I was 17 years old to get. behind that door to see these things, understand these things and and and and. number one, what if we need to be doing. something? We don't have an Avengers. initiative, >> right? That's true. Um, that's on my. list is when you were 17, u how you. worked on SDI, but black holes. >> Oh, yeah. Um, Arcade Pathria that said. universe is a black hole in the 70s.

We've got Pablowski in the 2010s. So, this is not new, but your paper I. think says our universe could fit into. like 5 to 10 solar masses. >> Yes. So, uh, the the paper that I it's. really weird how it came about. I was. actually working on a simulation. hypothesis presentation for a. conference. I forget which conference it. was. And I was looking at world maps of. video games, >> okay? >> Like say uh Minecraft, you got the.

square world map or you know whatever. And and and how they worked and I. realized that since you couldn't go, they weren't like the old Atari in. Asteroids where you go off this side and. you come back on this side, right? U you. know that that's actually a sphere. People don't realize that. Uh but u I I. was looking at the world map and I. realized you can't go outside the. boundaries of that. And so the video. game itself has an event horizon. Okay. That hit my and and at the same. time I uh pulled a picture that was made.

by a cosmology group. You can anybody. can go find it. It's a circle that shows. sort of a logarithmic plot across time. and space to the edge of our universe. And it's a big circle and shows we're. somewhere near the middle. And you got. and then you got the giant galaxies that. when they were beginning to form and all. this out at the edge of time when the. big bang allegedly occurred and there's. nothing beyond that circle that you can. see. And I looked at said this is. exactly the same world map is in. Minecraft. There's an event horizon on.

our world map that we can't see beyond. And I said the only thing that I know of. like that that has an event horizon that. traps all the information on the inside. of it is a black hole. And then I realized well Stephven. Hawking uh actually uh wrote wrote a. paper uh with a guy named Beckinstein u. that black holes actually do emit a. certain amount of radiation but it's so. tiny that the amount of radiation it's. such a long wavelength and so low energy. we can't build detectors to detect it.

So it'll be decades before anybody can. prove or disprove Hawkings concept his. his hypothesis. >> but it matches with the math and. everything. It's probably true. It's. just we can't prove it for a long time. till we get better at building. instruments. >> Uh but I realized I said, "Well, if. there's energy leaking out of this black. hole, >> well then uh that energy is a signature. of what's inside it.". And so you know how you can take um your.

radio dial in your car back in the old. days when you could turn you could see. all the numbers there that's the. frequency spectrum of all the. transmissions your radio can do right at. in time it sends a signal but across the. frequencies you can see all these spots. on the dial. Well I thought now what if. the signal if we look at its spectrum if. it tells us all the information that's. inside uh coming from the inside of the. black hole. And when I did uh certain. types of math, it let me reproduce what.

we see as modern cosmology running. backwards uh from the outside looking. in. So in other words, we believe we. have models of our universe, right? Going this way, expanding outward uh. from the big bang. Well, in a black. hole, if you look at it from the outside. in, time's reversed and it would be. falling inward. And I thought, well, now. that's an interesting corlary. And so I. used all the the math from Hawking and. everything and and I and I ran a bunch.

of mod. It took me a lot. I built it's. such long Python code that it took me. forever. I had to vibe code a lot of it. with, you know, chat GVT because I'm not. a supercomputer hacker, you know. Um, but you have to always go back and make. sure the math is right because, you. know, AI will will give you fake stuff. >> It will. Um, but anyway, so once I ran. the models over and over and over and. convinced myself that the code was. right, it showed that any any black hole. between five and 10 solar masses should. have similar cosmology as our our.

universe, which suggests, now I'm not saying it. proves it, but it suggests that we live. in a black hole that's about somewhere. between five and 10 solar masses. And my. model stopped somewhere about 7.2 solar. masses. So Plowski said [clears throat]. that that we would inherit the. characteristics and spin of our parent. black hole. But what I can't square is. the swarse child radius. >> Well, so uh the source child radius is. only something you see from the outside. >> Oh,

>> that's the event horizon. So that's we. don't we can't go past it. We we can't. get out that. >> Well, explain worship for for the folks. listening. >> Yeah. So um if you uh take a amount of. mass and you squish it as as small as. you can make it there is a radius around. it spherically uh make makes a you know. virtual sphere say a geometric sphere. around it and at that radius is is the. radius where light can't even escape the. gravitational attraction even light will.

fall in right there. So, there's no way, unless maybe you have warp drive that. you could escape or quantum tunneling, >> right? >> You know that 3:00 a.m. feeling, not. being able to fall back asleep because. you're drowning in debt? PDS Debt is. here to help. The issue is minimum. payments only keep you in debt longer. PDS debt takes a different approach by. combining bills into one lower monthly. payment. No more juggling. They can cut. what you owe on credit cards, personal. loans, and medical bills by up to half. And the best part is there's zero credit. impact. No minimum credit score.

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assessment today at. pdsdebt.com/basement. That's pdsd.com/b. pdsd.com/b. And so the interesting parallel though. uh AJ when I was doing this was it led. back to my simulation hypothesis. presentation. because. uh like Elon Musk has said that he. believe that he doesn't believe there's. any chance that we're in the prime. universe that we're in a nested. simulation.

>> one in billions. >> a simulation within simulation within. simulation. >> well look across our cosmology how many. black holes there are and within our. universe we see black holes everywhere, right? And uh and if we're in a black. hole, that means that there are black. holes in our black hole and those black. holes probably have black holes in those. black holes and those black holes will. have holes in those black holes and it's. turtles all the way down and all the way. up. >> So, could our universe be a black hole. in someone else's sky? >> Yes, that's that's the point. It's.

turtles all the way down and all the way. up. >> Do you know Lee Mullen's work at all? >> That name sounds really familiar. I'm. not sure. Hey, his theory is. cosmological natural selection where if. the universe is a black hole, it's. always looking for ways to just create. more of them. It's almost like the. anthropic principle but on the black. hole level. >> Wow. Yeah. Well, that's I mean that. gives it sort of a a purpose, an intent. like like the Genesis device. >> It almost sounds intentional. >> Yeah. Well, so. if you want to talk about intent,

>> let's do it. >> Um. >> we'll get the skin walker. >> I we got time. I don't know. So, I did a. um this is really interesting. There are. two things and one of them I won't talk. about, but there are two things I've got. chat GBT to bring up a warning banner. and says it will not go any further on. it. And then why this one is so odd. I. wanted to prove I wanted to go through. the probability that evolution could. occur. It wouldn't let you do this. I. got to the model. So, I started we. started creating a model. It's called a. heristic model. Basically, the. probability of this and then the. probability of that. It's basically like.

the Drake equation. >> Sure. >> But for evolution, right? But I just. kept getting it more and more complex. and more and more complex and more and. more complex until we got to the point. where I said now uh now run the. probabilities of this and uh and and it. and it ran the probabilities and showed. that it there's no way within uh many uh. like hundreds it's like 100 to 100 to. 100 to 100 orders of magnitude that the. universe have to be that old for it to.

have happened. And I said then the only. way it could have happened was through. engineering intent that someone changed. something in the model. Then a banner. come up and said this is getting into uh. theological uh discrediting or something. and and and it said we can't discuss. this any further. >> Now hold on change something in the. model. Epoch transitions is a thing. >> Yes. So it catchf doesn't know that. Well, but see that's that's not u.

that the the epoch changes the from the. radiation dominant to the matter. dominant to the dark matter dominant all. that um which is actually interesting in. my black hole paper it actually is a an. effect. >> it is. >> yes it actually should have happened. according and so uh but uh something. somebody changed something in the matrix. right. >> and uh well. >> ch GPD won't doesn't want to accept the. AI doesn't want to accept. Uh I've tried. it with Grock too and and with and with. Deep Seek and all. So it's not just I'm.

not picking on Open AI, you know, all. >> you tried it you tried it with like. Kimmy and. >> I I've tried it with Claude. I have I. haven't I've tried it with Claude, Deepseek, Grock, and Chat GPT and um. they all come with the same answer that. it's impossible. that something somebody had to change. had to make some glit change something. >> right uh for it to go down this path. because there's so many infinite. bifurcations for the probability and you. know that's you know if it doesn't.

violate your religion in any way right I. mean anybody's religion they say God God. created people well or whatever the. universe well this how he did it. >> right simulation theory and religion is. the same thing. >> yeah I I tell people all the time if I'm. going to create a universe am I going to. go get a cauldron and start putting in. like you know witches brew stuff and. hope it blows up and creates the thing I. want or am I going to get in an. environment where I can control. everything which is a computer. simulation environment where I can.

create a physics engine and have Mario. jump as high as he can jump and run as. stand on toenail at the edge of a of a. of a cliff, you know, do whatever. And I. can control that. And if I don't like. the way it's working, I can hit the. pause button and change a sub routine. here or there and start it back up. >> Yep. >> That sounds a lot like the epochs that. we just talked about. >> It sure does. I bring up all the time on. this show is uh Philip K. Dick's talk. >> That is one of the greatest every they. should make every person in high school. watch that speech.

>> Agreed. >> Philip K. speech is the most powerful. speech by a man who spent his life. writing art. You're making stories, science fiction stories and uh you know. people bladeunner for everybody knows. what Bladeunner is, right? Uh but Philip. K. Dick u his stories when you hear that. speech and he he's telling you they. aren't stories. >> It's not science fiction. >> They're my memories. >> Yes. >> Of an alternate reality that for some. reason I can still remember and. everybody else has forgotten. You see.

the faces in the crowd. >> Yeah. Oh, you [laughter] like. >> And what what's great though because. it's in in in Paris or wherever it is, it's in French, right? Yeah. And and you. hear the translator going and then you. then you hear the the murmur, >> right? That is that is one of the most. fascinating speeches in the history of. mankind, I think. >> Yeah. He talks about man in the high. castle. He said, "I just remembered this. that the Axis won the war." when he. talks about the lady that that comes to. visit him. >> Yes. >> That is bizarre and fantastic at the.

same time. >> Yeah. And I believe him. >> I I don't think he had any reason to. bring it up. No. Unless it was some kind. of weird bizarre, you know, hallucinogenic trip that he had been on. or something, but uh I I don't He didn't. His writing didn't portray that. >> No, it didn't. >> It was very matterof fact. >> Absolutely was. And and and for that. speech, he believed you could see unless. he's the best actor in the world, unless. he's like, you know, George C. Scott or. something, right? That he believed every. word he was saying.

>> And I I think everybody should watch. that speech because it's just. unbelievable and fantastic. >> Totally agree. How does your um your. black hole theory and your thoughts of. simulation dovetail into your study of. the Gnostic texts? >> Well, I think they're one and the same. I think the gnostic text and not just. the gnostic text but uh other ancient. texts the the the mahabarata vivadita uh. uh various other uh tauist uh text I. think they're all telling us the same. stories uh but the gnostic texts.

specifically spell it out in great. detail uh you know the pocryphon of John. the book of philip uh they they they. talk specifically. about uh the universe before. uh this allloving being uh and then he. creates sort of a a companion being who. gets bored out there in the infinite and. creates a shadow universe. >> So that's Sophia getting bored. >> Sophia. >> so wisdom.

>> Yeah. >> Getting bored. >> Yeah. So Sophia is, you know, according. to the Gnostic, you know, text, uh, is, I guess that we call, we we use Sophia, I guess, because we think she's female. or there's a female aspect to it, feminine aspect, but she's an explorer. and goes through all of the heavens, which is called, it's called the Plleoma. in the Gnostic text, >> and gets bored. So, she creates a place. to go and have adventures in, I guess. Um, but when she creates this dark realm. out of the shadow, so the matter is. apparently the shadow of the light.

beings of the pluroma. And when she creates it, this other. being appears. And and it's real vague. to me how the Gnostic texts, or at least. I interpret it, did she cause this. being, this dark being to occur, or did. it just manifest? And and it's called. the name is like yaabath uh also. referred to as the demi urge and the. demiurge is the god of the shadow world. and believes he is the only the god. Right.

>> Right. But he's not. >> Yeah. But he's also a petty god. Right. He uh because he he doesn't want anyone. to think that they're more powerful than. him or whatever. And he creates these. demons, the archons to uh uh to do. basically like agents to do jobs, right, for him. Uh, and I find it really. interesting because uh, it sounds just. like in the books of Enoch. uh, where the all high has all these. other deities, these these angels or. archangels or whatever to to do certain.

jobs like one of them controls the. weather, one of them controls this, one. of them that sounds just like in a in a. video game simulation architecture, you. have sub routines and agents to do all. these different things, right? >> Sure. And uh I think the the Gnostic in. the in the Gnostic text u uh the the. interesting part to me is uh how Sophia. saw these beings that uh the demiurge. was creating out of the shadow of the. matter and they didn't have a spark of. life. So she splits herself into. infinite pieces goes into this dark.

universe and puts a piece of her in all. the beings basically the soul. And in. Apocrypha of John, the last supper is. completely different last supper than. the one I was taught in Sunday school. >> In what way? >> Well, so Jesus doesn't come there and. tell them that he's there to save all. the sins of mankind. >> Oh, no. [laughter]. >> Well, I mean, what what happens is he. tells the apostles that he is from the. Plleoma. >> Mhm.

>> And to get back, you have to go through. the monad or become one with the monad, whatever that means, right? It's a. doorway. Is it uh you know your your. pineal gland? You know you whatever. I. don't know. Uh but he but he says that. uh the only way to get there is to be. true to yourself and within. You don't. need to go to a church. He actually. tells them. >> right God is God isn't there. >> God is not in that church. It's in you. Yes. And he says I'm here to return. basically his mother Sophia all the. sparks of her back to the ploma.

And that's completely different than. what I was told in Sunday school. >> Yeah. They buried it for a reason. >> I Well, that leads me to think at that. point that the stories that Paul uh. rewrote the Bible [snorts] uh basically. on his business purposes. >> Yes. >> Uh is is probably true because he wrote. it in a way that you have to come to the. church. You have to sacrifice for the. church. You have to be submissive to the. church. And that puts the church what?

Oh, in control. >> In control. >> Right. when when Jesus according to the. Gnostic text said the church isn't in. control anything you are in control you. have to reflect inward and be in control. of yourself and and that is completely. opposite to the story that most of the. religions are telling us. >> right remember when um the full Bible. was found in Ethiopia all those years. ago oh. >> and they said and and he said what what. is all this and they said that's the. Bible said there's too many books here. book of Enoch Philip is in there all. this stuff they're like no this is the.

Bible in 367 they took all they threw. all this away. >> Yeah. >> Buried it and now this is the Bible. >> Well, I want to know who those people. were in the 360s, 364, 367. It was there. was about three or four years where they. sat there and said, "Well, this book we. we we'll use. This book we won't use.". Why? >> Why? >> Why why would they say take out for. example Jesus telling uh the apostles in. in the uh book apocron of John how to. see the the the demi urges archons,

right? It's written. Now, this is really. interesting. U and it's actually become. an interesting experiment for Skinwalker. Ranch, which I know we're going to get. to. >> We're going to get to. >> [snorts]. >> uh but he tells them that you can see. the archons through your peripheral. vision. >> Oh, and the interesting thing about that. is he actually explains it. He says. because your eyes can see different. light in your peripheral vision than. straight on. He said don't turn to look. at them or you won't see them. And we now know that your peripheral.

vision can see further into the infrared. than the center part of your eye. And. how did he know that? Whoever wrote, even if it's a fictional story written, you know, 2,000 years ago, how did he. know 2,000 years ago, number one, about. infrared light, >> right? >> And number two, that your eyes work. better for infrared light with your. peripheral vision. So, somebody knew. something to tell this story, whether. it's real or not. And that to me is at.

least enough evidence that somebody knew. something that the rest of the world did. not know. How how you hire a shark as. your lifeguard. Technically, he's. watching the water, just not for the. reason you'd hope. There's a reason you. wouldn't hire a shark to keep you safe. in the ocean. Just like there's a reason. why Morgan and Morgan is America's. largest [music] injury law firm. Here's. the truth behind the name. Founder John. Morgan started this firm after his. brother Tim was catastrophically injured. as a teenager working at Disney World.

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>> Of course. >> Well, and you go to the lobby. >> Yep. >> Uh like, you know, uh Roblox, for. example. There's 14 doors, right? You. can go in this door and you play that. Titanic game, or you can go in this door. and it's some kind of parkour game, or. you can play this game and it's a a. player versus player game, right? U well. if you heard the story of uh Vishnu. right the uh from the Hindu text Vishnu. u as Vishnu would breathe exhale or.

sweat each little bead of moisture would. become a new universe and Vishnu would. then uh take on different avatars in. these different universes and have. adventures. >> Yep. >> Sounds a lot like that lobby we were. just talking about. >> It does. Now, I always wondered if. Vishnu is just the game console. >> Wow. It sounds like it, >> right? >> So, that would mean that that. [clears throat] all these universes is. really all the same spark, right? >> It's all the same source. >> Yeah. So, who made it? >> I don't know. Who made it? [laughter]. >> Where is it?

>> Where is it? >> Yeah. If there's an edge of the. universe, there's got to be something. else out there. But you can ask. theologians and physicists and you get. weird answers, man. Well, because it it. it sort of violates their sense of. sensibility like uh the ancient one told. Doctor Strange in in Doctor Strange, right? Uh is that if if if a spell u. upsets your senses, then call it an. algorithm, right? >> Right. >> We we we put too much emphasis on it.

sounds like something that offends me. Right. Well, science isn't offensive. Science is just there. I mean, it's just. a thing. It's why there's no such thing. as fringe science, right? There's no. nowhere in the scientific method is the. word fringe. Uh nowhere in the nowhere, and this is I I would get up on. anybody's soap box and beat it with a. hammer, >> right? >> Nowhere does it say anything about. extraordinary evidence. Never in the. scientific method is the word. extraordinary evidence used. The Carl. Sean did a huge disservice to humanity.

by making that statement. He did that uh. extraordinary claims require. extraordinary evidence. No, extraordinary reclaim extraordinary. claims require you to follow the. scientific method. Any evidence is. evidence in the scientific method that. must be analyzed. And when you uh do all. add all the evidence together, do all. the analysis, that's when you can maybe. uh support or discredit the claim. The. extraordinary claim has nothing to do. with extraordinary evidence. It sounds. to me like u people say he had a a.

change of heart or something at some. point like they got to him. I think so. >> Um. >> because he was a he was a UFO believer. and then he wasn't. >> You read that book that he wrote with. the Russian guy uh on I forget the name. of the book, but it's it was before way. before Cosmos and it was basically. studying the Drake equation and about. the possibility of life and everything. and they're all like, "Well, yeah, there's it's got to be everywhere, right?" And then suddenly, oh no, I. don't think there's life out there. It's. probably not. And there's no UFOs. And. you can watch even speeches that he did.

where he said, uh UFOs should be. investigated. then oh no there's nothing. to it right so it does sound like a lot. of the conspiracy stuff that we hear. right that somebody got to him. >> maybe maybe they offered him something. well. >> one way or the other. if I hear scientists use that statement. I always number one to a knee-jerk. reaction and say who taught you that. where did that come from that's not the. scientific method go back and read the.

scientific method and and uh And so it I. I absolutely, you know, I might make extraordinary. claims because I'm from the South. We. speak in uh uh [laughter]. we we we speak in in hyperbole and. euphemisms and all sorts of uh. exaggerations, right? But I I never say. it as a it's the fact, right? Or it's. the thing. It's you know, I may say, "Holy crap, what is that?" But uh uh. then I might say, "Oh, well, it was just. one of these." But then I might say,

"Wow, it's one of those." Has your. doctoral committee seen your paper yet? >> Uh, no. The u one one of my adviserss. has. The entire committee has not. And. >> what do they what does he think? >> He said it was above He said it was. above him actually. >> Really? >> Yeah. [laughter]. >> I can't wait to read it. >> Uh, I'll send you a copy of it. It's a. lot of uh it's a lot of, you know, quantum field theory and general. relativity kind of uh and thermodynamics. thrown together. It's a lot of graduate. level math, but that's the way most.

scientific papers are. It's that it's. all math and and unless you understand. the math, it it doesn't mean a lot to. you. I always uh my first PhD uh. committee chairman, he told me he took. me to uh before I did my final defense. took me to an elementary school and had. me present my work to the third graders. and he said, "If you can't explain it to. a third grader, you don't understand. it.". >> That makes a lot of sense to me. >> Yeah. And and so think about this. If if. if the phenomena is a strange effect in.

a just a weird mathematical formula, how. in the hell do you explain that to a. third grader? You have to really really. really think about it and really try to. understand what it really means, you. know, effectively to explain it that. way. And um. so are we in a black hole? So, I'm not. the first person to say it like you. said, >> but I think that if you do the math, you. can narrow down on what kind of black.

hole we live in. >> And what's interesting is black holes. outside of that 5 to 10 solar masses, they got different physics in their. universes, >> different physics, different constants, >> a different Yes. Different cosmology. completely. So, who what kind of things. are going on in those big black holes or. smaller black holes? So every black hole. isn't going to create a universe like. ours, just those in that certain mass. range. And so I find that really. intriguing. It creates a an infinite uh. sort of possibility of of types of.

physics and beings that could occur. >> It does. Um I don't know if you are. aware of the Jade Project from last. year, James Webb. Oh, >> they found that they looked at all the. the like the farfield galaxies and. twothirds of them are spinning the same. way and it shouldn't work like that, >> right? >> Why? >> Yeah, that's a good question. Why? So, you know, you you actually I've been. thinking about that actually and you. said something a few minutes ago that. could possibly explain it that uh the.

black hole if there's black holes. created within it, it should have u u. some kirality or it will if it has spin. on the outside then that should. translate somehow to the inside. >> Yes. Well, what if our black hole is. spinning with a certain angular momentum. that's causing the majority of the. galaxies in our black hole to spin in a. certain way? >> That's why I brought it up because. there's a lot of these uh studies that.

seem to point to your paper. >> I'm I'm excited about it. I uh I I. really think there's something to it. I. mean, I'm not saying that it's uh, you. know, Nobel Prize winning kind of stuff, but I I think it's something unique and. new that we can actually if we start. finding a way to peer into black, we can. actually get information inside a black. hole now, right? And and I find that uh. I find that intriguing. Now, I did. something fun. I created a model black. hole in IBM's quantum computer, uh, the.

one called. >> Fez. Mh. >> And uh then I created uh a wormhole and. I put one end outside the black hole and. one end inside the black hole. >> Oh, that's a lot of math. >> It was It was hard to write the code, too, and did it work in the in the. computer. Now, I'm not saying I actually. built these. They weren't real black. holes, but it was simulation of a black. hole in the quantum computer. And uh and. I could actually send entangled photons. from from within the black hole to the. outside and I could send information.

from within the black hole. >> and they would stay entangled. >> and they would stay entangled. Now now. that's just it's an interesting. simulation until I can figure out a way. to do more with it, right? You know, but. but it's a you think about these things. We don't know how the universe works. We. don't know how everything. So if you say. you can't do something like I I was I. was going to make this point earlier. about uh when I was talking about the. square root of four. Shurmer has has. always said you would that you know you. can't go faster speed of light. You. can't these these things. Oh and and the.

to say that these uh UFOs in these. videos if they were going uh at the. speed that we're saying they're going. they would uh they would make sonic. booms and all these rip the air apart. and all set the air on fire. All this. stuff. Well that's one solution. But if. you understand the the physics of warp. theory and general relativity, uh there. was a paper written in 1999 that is. called the paper is actually called a. view from the bridge because they were. trying to see if Captain Kirk could. actually get information from inside the.

warp bubble. >> Mhm. >> And what they found was that information. can't penetrate the front or the back of. the bubble uh that uh that that it. creates a impenetrable information. barrier and so anything will just move. around it without interacting with it. So, if there's a warp bubble moving. through our atmosphere, the atmosphere. is just going to move out of the way. It's not going to need to make a sonic. boom. It's not going to rip the air. apart. This the air is just going to act. like it's not there, >> right? It's almost like a micro. universe. >> Yeah, that's exactly it. It's a pocket. universe, what I call it. But yeah, and.

and so the question there is, does. Shurmer not know uh general relativity. at all? I'm sure he's a smart guy. >> He knows. >> So, and and and I know Abby Lobe does, and they're they're buddies. I mean, so. why do they say things like that? Why do. they say things like that? Just to say, well, that can't happen. If that was. there, it would rip the rip the air. apart. It set the atmosphere on fire. Or. or what if it was a warp bubble, >> right? >> And it was following the the laws of.

physics as we understand them. We see it. happen in water, too. >> Yes. Oh, there was a you know, there was. a a project that DARPA did back in the. 80s called warp uh project warp theory. or warp drive. Project warp drive. And. it was uh they basically made a. submarine that looked like a narwhal and. the big nose out on the on the submarine. had uh little pocket little little. bubbles in it. I mean holes in it and. they would put out nitrogen gas and uh. and create bubbles air bubbles little. bitty air bubbles that would go around. create a a warp bubble of bubbles around.

the submarine so it would reduce the. density of the water. >> That's right. The cavitation project. I. remember this. >> And so it could go faster. >> Yes. Then a submarine in water could go. it would go faster than the speed of. sound in water, right? Potentially, which is a warp bubble, but a warp in. the water in in in hydro dynamics, not. not in, you know, space-time dynamics, but but uh so what I mean that's the. it's a it's a neat idea. It's the same.

idea. It's just doing it in a different. way. We don't know how to create those. little bubbles yet, you know, to do a. real warp drive. >> Why do you think they're keeping it from. us? I don't know who they are. >> Yeah. It always comes down to who they. are. >> Yeah. And and so I, you know, even if we. we put in the I I don't think it made. it. I think they there were some. antibodies that edited out the first. report that the UAP task force did back. in like 21 or two, I forget the year.

Um, we had a page in there that said. it's either. us in a classified project that for some. reason didn't reveal itself to us, right? Which we we rated as very low. probability because we had access, right? It's a it's a near peer, you. know, China or Russia. Uh, but our. intelligence network hasn't given us any. information that it was that. Um, it's. mother nature doing something new that. we've never seen before, which is. possible for some of them, but not for.

all of them, right? The ones that look. like actual things is unlikely to be. ball lightning, right? >> Uh, and then uh there's an oligarch or. group of oligarchs that are outside uh. of working outside of the law or outside. of any control. uh which would require a. lot of coordination or a lot of. resources which a lot of them have, right? Uh or it was something else. And. we didn't even say aliens, angels,

demons. We left that alone. We just said. it was something else. And that whole. list of things got removed from the. report. And and I why why would you even. cuz we were just showing that we were. saying there are all these possible. solutions. It's like square root of four. is two and minus two, right? That's all. we were saying. >> Well, who has the authority to do that? >> That's the question, right? >> It's Pentagon. It's got. >> Well, so Jay Stratton was a twostar. admiral equivalent civilian Dael Defense.

intelligence senior leader, right? Two. star equivalent. I was a GS-15. equivalent. Uh and we had uh so there. was another another sort of partner uh. that was working for what is now Space. Force. It wasn't Space Force then, but u. and he was a one-star equivalent. So we. had some muscle. >> Yep. >> And we had uh you know the senior. members of the and Hipsy uh on. board. I mean Rubio was our biggest fan. >> Yeah. Those are the committees. >> Yeah. And and so I I don't understand.

who would have the power over them to. keep us from, you know, putting certain. things in the report. >> Well, but it there's always there's an. answer to that. Like who called you, Marco, cuz someone made a call. We just need to. trace where those calls end. But we we. we can never get there. Well, you know, um, Representative Burchett just told me. that Tim Tim is a great guy from. Knoxville, Tennessee. U,

>> he's a hecklefish fan. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He He's a good guy, man. I So, it's so funny. Uh, uh, he. invited Jay Stratton and I to go to his. house and brief him on on all this. And. so, we drove up to Knoxville from. Huntsville, Alabama. Jay moved to. Huntsville after he after we started. hanging out together. He liked he liked. it down there. But um anyway, we drove. up to see u Congressman Burchett and he. comes out on the front porch in cut off. blue jean shorts. >> Oh no. And his daisy dudes.

>> Cowboy boot. [laughter] Cowboy boots. Right. He's got his firearm on his side. and a Tennessee VS golf shirt. Right. And uh and he comes out and uh he takes. us in the house, shows us all of his. World War II firearms that his dad had. got him or what gotten when he was. there, whatever. But anyway, and and and. we briefed him and he said that when you. get there, you you're there, you think. you have all these great intentions or. whatever, and you get there and realize. that there's they they he said they will. not let you do anything. And and we were.

like, well, who is they? And he says the. system. >> And u I don't know if he actually knows. if if there's a they to the system. >> I don't think he knows. >> I I don't think he I don't think he. does. I I think it's basically they oh. everybody says oh you can't do that you. can't tell anybody you can't do this you. can't do that and I think um they just. accept it right our elected officials. can't even do what we've elected them to.

do because of whatever this they or this. system is and uh that's probably what. you know we call the deep state or you. administrative state all these different. things that uh gets in the in the. political realm but I'm not talking. about politics I'm is talking about in. general. humanity wanting to know what their. leaders are doing for them. >> Humanity is the problem because whether. it's merchant or somebody else, you get. a phone call that says, "Do you want to. know about aliens? You want to get. re-elected?". >> Yeah, I I suspect that's right.

>> Yeah. >> I I I I have a feeling that that's. exactly right. I mean, I had uh I had. push back when when Jay um invited me to. be on the UAP task force. push back from. >> uh so my boss was a onestar equivalent. for the army. So he had been a onestar. general equivalent. Uh now I had done. some work for the uh threear that was. over him before but in a way that he. didn't actually know my name. He just. knew that there was somebody under him. doing work right. Um but uh Jay called.

my had to actually literally call my. boss and say at the army and say we need. Travis for the inter agency task force. It was wasn't called JP Task Force yet. And uh. >> this is pre- Arrow. >> Oh, wait. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We Jay and I retired and then Arrow. became. >> Okay. Right. >> Uh so uh we we retired because we. realized we couldn't get anywhere. Right. >> Right. We kept getting doors shut in our. face. >> So uh anyway, u my boss was like, "Well,

why do you need Travis? You know, why do. you need him?" And he he said he's and. so Jay told this is funny Jay's exact. words to him was because Travis is the. only guy that can understand the physics. and knows how to build That's. exactly what he told him [laughter]. because, you know, I I grew up building. stuff and and. >> we all watched it on TV [laughter]. >> and and I and our goal was to figure out. if there was a heritage a legacy reverse.

engineering program and to get into it. and see why there was no progress. and and and and because here's the. thing, I I briefed all the way up to the. White house if there is a legacy program. who's doing the work because I know all. I don't necessarily know personally all. of the physicists and engineers that. should be working on but I know who they. are and I know that they're not because. I see what they are doing. >> you know that they're not.

>> yes and I see what they are doing and. that's when um Dave Grush kind of came. along so let me let me uh you know I'm. probably getting ahead of you but you. are but it's fun uh So, uh, so Jay and. that other person who still didn't want. his name out because he just didn't want. the publicity. He's retired since, but. he just didn't want to get involved, right? Uh, but he the guy that was in. the space group and then and Jay and. myself and there was one other um CIA.

scientist that was uh kind of in the top. group that would hang out, you know, together afterwards. We called it u um. Jay called it whiskey and cigars cuz. he'd do a a virtual meeting and we'd all. meet like every Friday evening and and. talk about what we'd done. U but so the. the space guy uh he was he had Dave Gush. on contract. Dave Gush was not a civil. servant. He was a contractor, right? and.

he said, 'Well, we need somebody u um. that can go and we get them to do. interviews because we don't have time to. do all because we had just said Jay and. I had just got approval from the NASA. administrator that we were going to get. every living astronaut in a skiff and. have them um debrief with us and and. they were to be told from the. administrator to tell us anything they. know, right? And then CO hit and we. didn't get to do that, but there's a. whole another aspect to that. Well, who. would have been alive then? Just Buzz,

right? >> Well, you have uh the Apollo of the. Apollo guys, you got you had Buzz and uh. then then then you would get into the. space shuttle guys. >> Oh, okay. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> And and uh so you still had uh uh. there were still several of the space. shuttle uh Musgrave is still alive, you. know. I I don't know if John Young, Robert Kribbon are probably still alive. I I don't know. I'd have to go look that. up. But. >> what about Mark Kelly? Would he have. been on your list?

>> Oh yeah. Yeah. We So every living. astronaut, every astronaut that was. alive, we had we were go we had a plan. We had a schedule and we were going to. get them fly them. We had budget to fly. them to the skiff in DC and we were. going to meet with them for a week, have. them come in and debrief with us. So at. the same time, we had the space guy. said, "Well, I got a guy on contract. already doing some analysis for me. He's. pretty good. Uh, I'm going to get him to. start interviewing anybody that that. thinks they know anything about the. legacy programs in a skiff and uh and.

and so that's what Dave G started doing. He just started interviewing people. >> So he was in Air Force intelligence. >> No. Now now so he was active duty air. force for some time in his career. Okay. And and I think he was in Air Force. intelligence in that time frame, right? Uh but I I mean he wasn't high up I mean. he wasn't like a general or something. He was he was he was a just a you know a. normal career guy, right? Well, when he. when he got out of the Air Force, he. started doing contractor. He's a physics. major. I mean, he he knows he's I think.

he has a he he has I know he has a. bachelor's. He may have a masters in. physics. He's he's a sharp guy. Um uh so. anyway, uh and Dave was doing like. signals analysis or image analysis or. something for the space team. And so we. put him to work doing that and he. started getting people telling him just. all kinds of stuff. And so we we we'd. get him to tell you brief debrief on or. whatever. And then uh he got a job offer.

to go to um NGA as a civil servant. uh national geospatial agency. And uh uh. so but he was still uh also. partially under control from the other. leader of the UAP task force. And while. he was at NGA as a civil servant, uh, he. was asking some of these people the. questions and somebody didn't like it. and they had the inspector general start. investigating him. And that's that kind.

of brings everybody up to the date of. the stories that Davis told. Uh, but. what I I just wanted to to and I I want. to be clear about something I think. people don't understand the way he tells. it is that u. to my knowledge, he's never seen. anything with his own eyes. That's. that's what I understand. >> and the way he has and and under you. know discussions with me in a skiff. I've known Dave for a long time. Uh it's. yeah this guy told me this right and. he's the guy that worked on it. He says.

and then so then our goal was get those. people to say these things under oath. but we getting them to say it under oath. is the hard thing. And so that's I think. that's why Dave would at least went and. said it under oath that hey these guys. told me these things. And uh I want. people to understand that's that's the. problem we have. We can't get anyone. who's got their hands on it to uh come. forward and say uh yeah I've got it. Here it is. You know come help us. Cuz. the whistleblower protection doesn't.

seem to have any teeth. >> Uh I think whistleblower protection in. general never has any teeth. Right. I. mean, uh, look at the, uh, I forget the. guy's name. He was a CIA agent that blew. the whistle on torture going on at. Guantanamo. >> He spent like 5 years in prison. >> Yep. >> I don't think he got the whistleblower. protection he was wanting. >> No. >> So, there's a lot of that, you know, and. so I think they're scared to death. [clears throat]. >> But you believe that there's a legacy.

program? >> Excuse [clears throat] me. Yeah. You. know, is there a legacy program? because. I've had a few guys in here who would. know and they all say no. But I don't. know. >> Well, I I used to think no. uh until I started um really be being a. part of the community. You know, I. didn't believe that I believed that uh. up until probably I went to Skinwalker. Ranch that u Roswell was most likely a. classified program that went arai. And.

then when I start digging into it and. looking at it from internal. classifications and re reading all the. uh documentation and all and now uh the. fact that this fourth trunch of uh. emails and things have been released. from the government and they show. clearly that twining actually said that. they uh that they were a phenomena. Y. >> um you know I'm I'm I'm. convinced that something was going on. >> He said it for one day. Yeah. For one.

day. >> For one day. He said it. >> Well, so when I was doing the Tesla. files, that's a another interesting. thing. Um, uh, we found a document. through a Freedom of Information Act. request that Franklin Roosevelt had. written a letter directly to Nicola. Tesla in 1942 before he died asking uh, Nicola Tesla how his secret war effort. was going. >> You found that document? >> Yes. And we released it on the Tesla. files. Uh, and we had had a copy of that.

document from the foyer request. How was. his secret war effort going? And everybody thought he was just on top. of the hotel New Yorker playing with. pigeons. >> With pigeons? No. >> So, I mean, there's that conspiracy. theory that I believe is when he died, 60 boxes get taken out of room 3327 and. only 40 come back. >> It was more than that. >> More than that. And that's John Trump. >> Yeah. It was It was It was Donald. Trump's uncle. >> Yep. Right. And uh it's really. interesting. He was in charge. He was So.

it was Trump, which is also he's one of. the guys that shows up in the MJ12. conspiracy theories, too. He does. Right. But so here's the thing. >> Um. we went to the Hotel New Yorker to. >> You went You went there? Yeah. >> I got to watch this show. >> Uh to investigate what was going on. there. And I've got this the building. engineer uh come talk to me about the. design of the building and show me all. the infrastructure. It was built back in. the uh so Tesla quit being public in.

1927. You know when they started. designing the Hotel New Yorker. >> when? >> 1927. >> Go figure. >> Go figure. >> Right. And so we we go and we look and. they had three ginormous um u. generators, the biggest that existed put. in the basement of that building to. power the building. >> I read the same thing. But the I saw. them with my own eyes. You did? Yes. The. generators, one of the generators would have been.

enough to power all of New York at the. time. >> Right. >> And they had three of them. >> And um then I was uh um I was running. the stairwell uh during a break just as. my workout as a 40tory building. I'm. like, man, it's going to be a hell of a. workout, right? And I get up to the 40th. floor and it keeps going. So I go up a. floor and I get to a welded shut door. Welded shut now. And I go back down uh. the next morning and talk to the.

engineer. So what's up on the 41st. floor? Nothing on the 41st floor. Well, there's a door up there that's welded. shut. He said, "Show me." So we took. elevator and walked over there and I've. been the engineer for this building for. a decade. I've never realized this door. was here. And uh so how do we get to the. other side of it? We went and found. blueprints that were older and they. showed there was something there and and. there was a corridor and to get in there. we found there was a switchboard up. there on the 41st floor that you know. like old school where they those ladies.

that would be there putting plugging in. the movies you always see them plugging. in wires you know to make phone calls. There was a switchboard and it was about. this far from a from the main wall that. you could barely squeeze behind and get. through and when you get on the other. side there was a laboratory. no on. the for 41st floor. >> and there was a filing cabinet in there. that had blueprints from the early 1900s. in it. >> and we found uh and I I got to looking. around the room and there was a um a.

metal pipe about that big around and we. went to every floor and traced and it. went all the way down into the subb into. the earth and uh in the warden cliff. tower that Tesla built they drove steel. pipes into the ground deep and he called. them earth grippers. >> Yep. >> Right. And and when I started looking um. there was a certain height that Tesla. had calculated in some of his notes, but. the building was about 50 ft short of. that height. And we go up on the very.

top of the building. There's like an. overlook and there's a pole kind of like. a flag pole on top. And I said, "What's. there?" Oh, he said that there used to. be a ball up there. >> just like Warden Cliff. >> Just like on Warden Cliff. And so, and. this was and he was there in in 1942. when he died and there was that memo. that said, "How is your secret war. effort going?" from Roosevelt himself. So, what was he doing at the Hotel New. Yorker? I think it was a uh a a system.

to either collect energy uh or to detect. energy. And it may have been a means of. over the horizon communications to our. our Navy. We know he was working on all. that stuff. >> Yeah. And and and could it have been. something else? He talked about the he. talked about the We did find that there. was a a number of that we found a memo. from. >> I forget who who it was. Uh it was one. of the generals at the time of having.

all of the boxes from the office of. foreign properties. >> Alien property. >> Alien properties. That's it. Alien. properties. It's been a while. Yeah. It. was like 2016 I think when I did this. So the the office of alien properties. that pertain to death uh Tesla's death. ray to be sent to Right Pat Field. >> That's right. >> Wrightfield at the time. But but but we. found that memo that says that. >> where Blue Book was think spun up at. that time in Right Pat, wasn't it? >> Well, that would have been a little. before Blue Book because that was in the.

40s. Uh and Blue Book would have been in. the late 50s, right? Uh so uh I mean. they would have been had the had the. legacy of it certainly. >> something was there. >> Yeah. Well and so all of this stuff we. see now from investigating that we don't. know what our history is. We don't know. what's happened and and we don't have. anyone who's documented it and and it's. been compartmentalized in a way that. nobody will ever know. So I. >> alien property is supposed to have a. chain of custody with all that stuff.

>> Yeah. The alien just means foreigner. >> Yeah. Yeah. the the the the reason why. was because his next of kin was a. Serbian. >> and his nephew. >> Yeah. And so they. >> his nephew said, "Where's the rest of. the stuff?". >> So we went to Serbia. >> You did? >> Yes. To the to the uh Tesla uh. institute, whatever it's called. Is it. still there? >> And and uh we had permission from the. State Department work had worked it for. us to get to see Tesla's notes that they. have in the vault there. And because I.

was wanting to see I was going to try. and rebuild one of his experiments and. of the death ray honestly and and and. transmission of of power. And they bring. out this book. They got the white gloves. on and uh and they open up the vault and. they're wearing the bunny suit and they. come out and they set it down and said, "So this is the first page." And they. turned over one page and they said, "So. you can see this is these are Tesla's. documents." And I could see through the. paper that the drawing on the next page. was the drawing I really needed to see. And I said, "Well, can you turn the.

page?" And the the the curator basically. like the hass of Serbia where you know, >> he comes in, "No, >> no.". >> And I said, "Why? We why not?" And he. said, "Uh" he says, "You don't have a. research visa. You you're here on a uh. uh I don't know, tour work visa or. something. I forget what our visas. were." And and and our and our producer. came running. What now? We we have. permission. We're supposed We The State. Department worked all this out. What are. you talking about? says, "You don't have. research visa. You can't." And they and. they literally ran us out of the museum.

at that point when we want when he saw. that I was wanting to look at that next. next document. >> Did you call the embassy and said, "I. need a research visa.". >> We we did everything like that and they. would never the the Serbian museum there. would never let us come back in to see. the Tesla files. >> No, they wouldn't. >> How about that? >> I believe it. And and so that's the kind. of stuff who told him that who did why. did they not want me to see, you know, a. 100red-year-old document almost, right? '7s or whatever. It was old. Uh so why.

would they not want me to see that? That's that's so bizarre to me. Uh and. and and so it's that kind of crap that. I've seen over and over throughout my. career now and especially since I was on. the UAP task force that leads me to. think there is a heritage program or. legacy program. But I don't think I think it's so. disjointed and disconnected. We don't. know who's in charge of it. We don't. know where the information is, the. documents are. And it may not even be in.

the government. >> I think it is. >> I don't think it I think it's likely. >> uh Yeah. You know, Spielberg may have. got it partly right with how he handled. it in his new movie, right? You know, there was a some like Loheed Martin type. or north of Grumman or whatever. I'm not. going to say I've heard it was one of. those. >> I mean, we heard Hal say in age of. disclosure that they would just send. that stuff to the contractors because. FOYA can't penetrate. >> Yeah. Well, so now here is the um the. illegal part that that we've having been.

a civil servant for 28 years and having. to do uh federal acquisition regulation. uh contracts and stuff. I'm very aware. of what's legal and illegal here. I'm. not a lawyer. I mean, but I'm saying I. know what I would have gotten in trouble. for. Sure. Um so what happens? Let's. just do a hypothetical that some. government team recovers. uh an alien artifact. They release a call for proposals.

u to the people who have the right. clearances because they're classified. proposals, right? Calls and say, "Okay, propose for this." And and they award. somebody, some contractor, contractor X, uh a contract to work on this thing. soon as they deliver the pro the the the. device or or whatever artifact as. government furnished equipment GFE in. the contract it'll say that this is GF. then it's in the hands they're they're.

the curators of it but uh it's still the. government's property at that point the. government cancels the contract and says. we're going to abandon in place and this. is an official legal term used in the. federal acquisition regulations the. government can abandon in place anything. that they've left at a contractor. contractor facility and the contractor. can then do anything they want to with. it. They can throw it in the dumpster if. they want. They can give it to their. grandma. It doesn't matter. It's theirs. The government says, "Ah, I don't want. to do this anymore.". >> This is how it works.

>> And it's legal to abandon in place. But. then suddenly. uh that same contractor X bids on oh. let's say a F-22 contract or a F-35. contract or a future combat systems. contract and they get a $70 billion. contract for 10 years. Then this guy who. was the government employee retires and. guess what? He suddenly got a job with. seven figures uh working for one of.

these contractors. >> Yep. Now, that's what the whistleblowers. told us. And and that scenario we've. seen happen without being alien stuff. We've just seen it happen. We all see. it. >> Yeah. And uh uh so I'm convinced that. that has happened since the ' 40s. I'm. convinced of it. I think Howard Hughes. even even said basically that that was. what was happening. >> He did. He talked about anti-gravity. ships and stuff. >> Yeah. So, man, I don't know. Is there a.

legacy program? I can't prove it, but um. I've seen so many doors slammed in my. face or uh or had so many people tell me. not to look at that or talk about that. or or you know you your career will be. ended if you people think you're a nut. Those kind of things. Why? Why what. what's driving them and and what's. driving them to push so hard? I mean, since I've been on u at skinwalker, the. the some of the antibbody press has.

really come like this guy talking about. my alleged education, for example. >> You know, some people read that and. probably believe that I made it up, right? >> He and all he would have had to done was. do his homework. >> Yeah. That's operation mockingb bird. still still in action. >> That's exactly it. You got it. And so, who is behind that? That is the big. thing that bothers me the most because I. spent my life since I was 17 years old. as a civil servant serving the country.

that I believe in and then I get to this. point and I see that there's something. else going on that, you know, we're not. in control of what we think we're in. control of. >> Well, let's take a quick break. We'll. talk more about that later, but when we. come back, I want to talk a little bit. of quantum mechanics if you don't mind. >> I can always talk about quantum. mechanics. >> Be right back. >> Okay. So you worked at US Army Space and. Missile Defense Command, principal scientist of quantum. entanglement and space technologies lab. What does the army want to do? What's.

the army mess around with quantum. mechanics for? >> Well, um many reasons. One is are there. sensors that uh would use new new. methods of quantum physics that would. give you more information on battle. assessment uh battlefield awareness and. so on. Uh the other would be uh. communications if you can do quantum. entanglement encrypted communications. And what I was specifically working on. uh as my main project at the time was to.

create a satellite uh experiment that. would use quantum encrypted. communications so that uh no one could. ease drop or spoof or jam the comms to. the battle groups on the ground. >> Didn't China just do this? [snorts]. Yeah, you're thinking you're thinking of. the uh it's spelled Mishas. I think they. pronounce something like MOSA or. something like that. I don't understand. Chinese spelling and pron. pronunciations, but they're talking. about that that that experiment where. yes, they did a what's called a QKD.

quantum key distribution experiment. where they flew a satellite in 2016 2017. time frame. uh and they encrypted a. video transmission with their uh quantum. key and uh and and did it from one point. on one part of uh the globe to another. part which was uh really impressive and. exciting. There are a lot of people who. tried to debunk it and say that they. didn't really achieve it, but I was on. one of the teams to look at what they. did and and as far as I could tell, it. was functional. And it's really.

interesting. Uh not tooting my own horn, but but myself and and one of my first. mentors, uh Dr. Francisco J. Dorte, Frank Dorte, he and I wrote a paper in. 2015 that laser focus world, uh. nominated as one of the top 10 papers of. the year. uh and we show we showed that. quantum communications would be uh the. key for encrypted satellite. communications and then within a year. the Chinese did it and uh so at least we.

thought of it [laughter]. >> but they did it. >> but they went and did it. So, uh, but my. my, uh, lab was, um, a hybrid lab. between University of Alabama, Huntsville, and the Army, Space and. Missile Defense Command, to get smart. young folks in there working on it, hands-on building the experiment, building the space hardware. And, uh, we. we'd already flown one project on the. uh, International Space Station for 28. months. And our second mission was to.

fly the quantum uh, communications. package. And uh we got the first uh. prototype built and then politics. changed within the army and some group. said well we're the only group in the. army that's supposed to be doing that. So they pulled our funding and put it. there and uh we we sort of limped along. Um but I also that was about the time. that I got pulled into the UAP task. force and so my focus was sort of.

reoriented. Well, I understand how. quantum encryption would work, but why. would entanglement be necessary? >> So, that way you can uh over large. distances. create your key on both ends. >> Oh, that's right. >> So, you have your entangled photons, right, flipping up or down. And if you. measure over here, whatever it is, you. know what the other one is supposed to. be. And so what happens is you this this. person gets a key entangles it sends it.

over to the other person and then they. send through a regular comm's channel I. use this basis this this measurement. tool to measure it and so then they take. that measurement tool and do some you. know adjustment to it measure and. whatever they get then it tells them. what their key was and so if they don't. have both of those the actual entangled. piece and the classical comm piece then. you can't get the key. You can't open. the door. And so it's a it's perfect uh.

encryption. >> and it's not breakable. >> Well, there are some quantum hacks that. have been discovered since, but it's not. I don't think it's really been done in. application, >> right? >> It's theoretically possible. >> In theory, you should be able to break. it, I guess, instantly, right? >> Well, but if you do break it, the other. guy knows that you've broken it. >> So if if anybody eaves drops on you, you. know that you've been eavesdropped on. And so that's useful as well, right? >> Yeah. >> And so that's what we were working on. And um it was it was a exciting project.

Uh it was hard. Uh I mean it's one of. those things that you know nobody had. done yet. So I mean other than the. Chinese uh but nobody had done it in. this country yet. And the problem was. the problem with this country is uh for. the research funds you got so many. people fighting and stabbing each other. in the back over getting something done. that we're our own worst enemy in that. regard. instead of uh saying, "Oh, these. guys have done great work. We should go. look and see what they've done and maybe. we can get funding to do something. similar or whatever." Instead, we better.

kill them and get their funding. That's. how it works in this country. I mean, it. really does. And uh our our scientific. community, uh publication community, it's all a big Spanish Inquisition. It's. it's a mess. >> Were you studying quantum field theory. and then decided to just write the. textbook yourself? >> Uh that's that is exactly what I did. what what what was wrong with with the. the syllabus that you had to write your. own textbook as a student? >> Well, so uh what happened was u I.

noticed that quantum field theory was on. the catalog for the University of. Alabama Huntsville physics department, but it was never offered. And I went to. the dean and said, "Why why is it not. offered? You know, I've been studying. I'd want to take a official course in. it." And he said, "Well, um we don't. have anybody that wants to teach it.". And he said, 'I could, but I don't have. time. And I said, 'Well, uh, tell you. what, uh, I'll let me see if I can. create a syllabus for you and and write. the course. And so, I started putting.

the coursework together. I got several. other textbooks looking at them like. read like stereo instructions, you know, instead of trying to explain it in a way. that a student could understand it. And. so to teach myself, you know, quantum. field theory, uh, I had I mean, I had to. learn it well enough that I could teach. it to somebody else, right? explain it. to the third grader, so to speak, >> right? >> Uh which is that's a hard one to do, by. the way. >> Yes, it is. [laughter] Who did you study. to put that together? >> Uh so there are there's several books. U.

the the two main sets of books that I. used were uh a book by Clber and then. one by Lancaster and Blundle. There was. like something like uh quantum physics. for gifted amateur and one. studentfriendly quantum field theory or. something like that. And then then I. there was the standard textbooks that. people have used and and I looked at. what u I found MIT coursework online and. and just everywhere everywhere I could. find information. I'd read I said I'd. read everything about this particular. piece of it and be like I don't.

understand what what they were telling. me there. This one I kind of understand. I don't then I figure out after you know. putting it all together a way to. understand it. And so I said well I kind. of haven't done all this work. It might. as well be a book. And so I contacted. the publisher who who published my. rocket science book and uh they said we. would love to have a quantum field. theory book uh first graduate course in. that. Yeah, we'd love to do that. And so. I spent the next year putting that book. together. >> Did anyone take your course? >> Uh well I haven't taught it. Okay.

>> The book just came out, you know, 6. months ago. >> Oh, it did? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So I just finished it not, you. know, not long ago. And I've already. found a couple errors in it. So I'm. going have to do a an updated edition or. something to fix it. But that's usually. what happens, you know, with textbooks. You teach a class in it and the students. find where you made a mistake. Sure. Yeah. And so I'm hoping that somebody. adopts it and they'll get notes from. professors and well there's error here. There's, you know, that's happened with. my rocket science book, too. So. >> yeah, I get emails from fans and. scientists saying all the things I got.

wrong. >> I heard I've heard about that. [laughter]. >> Were you um working on decoherence when. you were in the lab? So um a a little. bit uh one of the things that we were. really interested in that I as me. specifically was. how how do we know or how does it know. to decoheree? What what is the thing. that triggers what is called the. collapse of the wave function in quantum. physics. >> and uh there are a lot of people that. debate it that people still think that.

or or want to argue with you that uh no. it's just statistics and and there never. was this alive and dead cat in the box. Uh but we've done experiments that. suggest that it is uh a superp position. of two states at once. The cat's alive. and dead in the box at the same time. But for how long? So, you know, Pinrose, Roger Pinrose, >> this is what I was getting at, >> uh has a a theory called quantum. gravity, and it's not really tying. gravity to quantum physics. It's just. what he called it. um that based on how.

much mass an object has is how long it. can stay in this superp position of. unknown states right like the cat's. alive and dead but since the cat is so. heavy it's like you know billionth of a. second or something a nancond or or even. less that it could be in flux but an. electron for example whose mass is tiny. like 10 the minus 31 kilograms or. something. >> uh that's so small you can't even. imagine so many zeros you know U that it.

can stay in that in that flux for almost. forever unless something interacts with. it. >> And uh so where is the middle ground. where there are big things big enough. things that you can watch and see it. happen? And I think uh there were some. experiments done with u micron size you. know millionth of a meter size nano. tubes like carbon filaments. Yep. >> Like the size of a human hair something. like that under certain field. conditions. And they've been able to see. it perform at both states at once.

Meaning it's that the cat is alive and. dead in the box. It's just a little. bitty box. >> Sure. >> Yeah. And a very cooperative cat. I've. always said I don't know how Sheniger. was going to get that cat in the box in. the first place. Now a cat will jump. into a box if you leave it there open. Right. >> But you can't put it in there if it. [laughter] cats do what they want to do. >> U so. >> so Tegmark says that uh decoherence is. almost instant in warm wet environment. That's not really true, is it? >> Well, that's the warm squishy brain. idea. So, what you're getting at is.

quantum consciousness, right? And and. pinrose and hammer. >> I'm thinking about bird's eyes and. quantum tunneling through all factory. senses even before we get to. consciousness. >> Well, uh, one of the things that that u. led me down this path was u my first. child was born in 2004. And when my wife. was pregnant, I remember watching all. these videos about, well, at this stage, the baby grows, this happens, and this.

happens. And I go, how the hell do they. know what? Why does it do that? And and. nobody knows why these things are. happening. They just it's just been. they've watched them so long so long. They say this is what usually happens. It's just observation. It's not. knowledge, right? >> And and what's triggering these things. to happen? And how does it know? And the. things happen in ways that seem faster. than they should be able to happen. They. still don't really know. >> No, they don't have any idea. No. And. and so now I got think, well, if you get. a splinter in your finger, the immune.

response happens immediately and it's. much faster than the ion channel to. travel from your arm up to your brain. and back down your brain and back to say. send stuff there, right? So, could it be. through a quantum connection through an. interaction? And that's what led me to. start studying Pinrose and Hammerov's. orchestrated objective reduction and the. and the warm squishy brain thing, right? >> And you know there for you know people. who haven't really paid attention to.

that the idea is that there are these. proteins in your brain and there's more. of these proteins in your brain than. there are grains of sand on the beach or. stars in the universe. >> Tryptophan. >> Uh no they're called tubulants. >> Oh the micro tubes. Yeah. Okay. >> And the and the protein the tubulant. protein. >> puts the tryptophan the amino acid in. those. Okay. Go ahead. Uh so Pinrose and. Amarov hypo hypothesized that uh these. tubulins can trap an electron like the. cat in the box right and and so that.

protein becomes what's called a cubit a. quantum processor. >> Mhm. And that's what we're building. right now at Google, at IBM, you know, the these quantum cubit processors and. and where the programs that we've built. quantum computers physically, there are. tens to hundreds of cubit processors. There are like 10 to the 20 or so of. them in your brain. And so does it matter if they decoher. quickly? This is where Tegmark didn't.

pay attention to engineering, >> right? >> So even if they do decoher so quickly, there's 10 to the 20some of them. >> That's that's a good point. >> And they could be decohering, but they. could be reinforced uh by the next one. not being decohered yet. And so on. >> Tryptophan does reinforce these. >> Well, and there's other So here's the. the the thought about that. Is there. architecture in your brain to do error. reduction? That's why you would you know. what when you do error reduction in.

computer and computing uh processing you. add extra processors. >> right. >> guess what there are 10 to the 20some of. these processors in your brain. >> and and so I believe that that's uh that. that your brain is a quantum computer. whether it was organically grown. designed by uh you know the anunnaki or. whatever you want I don't care uh but. that's what's happening and and it's led. it led me to write a book uh in the. early 2000s called the science behind.

the secret. and I was watching my wife and I were. watching these it's when the secret came. out was all popular know and it was. there was people on Oprah talking about. it. >> we all read it. >> yeah we all read it and and and and they. started talking about well you know it's. like electromagnet. electromagnetism and like well that's. not right like electromagnetism because. in in in magnets and electricity like. things repel each other and you're. saying like things stay I said the only. thing that does that that I know of is. quantum physics. Because in quantum uh quantum wave.

functions will uh have constructive. interference if the wave functions are. similar and they'll be destructive if. they are dissimilar. So like things. would stay and unlike things would go. away. And that started leading me to. think well what they're saying in the. secret isn't they're not physicists. They're like self-help people, philosophers, whatever. They don't. understand what they're saying, but. they're saying it right. >> Right. And so I started uh looking at. the quantum physics of the human brain. and how the universe works. And it led. me down this path of looking into.

ancient texts uh even more so than just. for things like from ancient astronaut. hypothesis, right? More than deeper than. Van Danakin, you know, more of the. William Henry sort of direction. >> Sure. and uh and and it led me into. really wanting to understand quantum. physics at a level uh of of is there an. observer effect that are we influencing. every experiment, everything that. happens? And and here's the thing that. gets me is how do I have dreams of.

people I don't know. in detail? >> We all do. >> Yeah. So, >> and but you know them in the dream. >> Yes. and I know these environments in. the dream that I've never been to. Is it. is am I that good at making up stuff or. is my brain in u idle mode and the noise. floor is brought down because all my. other systems are shut down and I'm uh. connecting like a uh a quantum.

transceiver to other quantum. transmissions that are happening uh and. and I'm decoding it and I I'm I'm like. playing that game. I'm part of that. reality for a minute. And I that leads. me down the path that because we don't. understand dreams, because we don't. understand things like DMT, uh because we don't understand that uh. when people are hallucinating that their. brain function actually goes into a. comaike state instead of hyperactive. Um, that leads me to think that we're.

doing something more on the lines of. detecting quantum information because. you got to it's very sensitive to noise, right? And so if you brought the noise. down, then you're seeing things that. aren't usually there or detecting things. that aren't usually there or having. experiences you don't usually. experience. It suggests to me that. sounds like quantum physics. >> Well, you brought up DMT. So, we've got. microtubules that are loaded with. tryptophan, which turns into tryptoin, add two methyl groups, and now you've.

got DMT, and it's your brain is full of. these amino acids. It's just [snorts]. can't be an accident. >> No, it can't be an accident. It can't. That That sounds like u It's the best. video game system ever created, right? >> Yep. >> Uh I mean, it's better than Neuralink. >> You ever do DMT? >> No, I I don't. I've I've had a security. clearance since I was 17. >> Oh, yeah. and been susceptible to drug. tests and and lie detector poly. polygraphs uh for a very long time. And.

so the only advice that I have is is. occasional alcohol. >> Fair enough. I broke my clearance, but. it's it's a weird world when you go into. the DMT world cuz it feels so real. >> I've had a lot of uh so uh as you can. imagine uh doing this kind of thing. They're they're cameramen and sound guys. and people who've been in the. entertainment industry and they don't. have such rules and regulations. [laughter]. >> and they tell me many stories and it's. what's really interesting to me is how. the uh Hayawasa and the and the DMT.

stories. >> They all say the same thing. They see. the same creatures. They have the same. experience. >> Why? >> Right. >> I don't know. I've seen the mantis being. really. >> I don't know why. >> And and I don't think it's because you. were frontloaded. >> Nope. It didn't feel like it. >> I It seems to me more like u like that. looking from your peripheral vision to. see things that you can't normally see. >> That's a good segue into skinwalker. because we have to talk about it. When. you got to the ranch, you were there to. debunk it, weren't you?

>> Yeah, man. When I got there, I knew it. was going to be like uh Scooby-Doo, man. I was I was going to get there and it's. old man withers, you know, and and we. got away with it. Weren't for these. meddling kids. But uh. >> you find Withers yet? >> No. No. I I've been there for 8 years. and have yet to find old man withers. In. fact, I'm more more confused today than. I than I was before I went, you know, after 8 years. >> What was that first experiment, that. first reading that you go, "Wait a. minute.". >> So, I I mean, I'd literally been there.

30 minutes to an hour. Um, >> that's it. >> Yeah. My uh first time to visit, Brandon. Fugle, the owner, flew me in on his. helicopter. We landed uh at the helipad. We got out and had lunch and then walked. up to the top of the mesa where they had. just put out a new sensor. They were. going to show me the sensor and I and we. and I carried a spectrum analyzer with. me as we went and the other scientist. there had one with him, Eric Bard. Um, and we were there up on top of the mesa. and we had just got there and then.

suddenly my spectrum analyzer pegged out. in the microwaves. And and I mean pegged out like not not. popping popcorn on the inside, but if. you were popping popcorn and held your. microwave detector right by the door, that's how much microwaves I was. detecting coming from everywhere. >> Wow. And what was the frequency? >> It was around 1.6 GHz. And and that's, you know, that's right where GPS is. That's where space to ground. >> is 1575 and aridium is 161. >> Yep.

>> That's a busy frequency. >> That is a very it's all space to ground. to space kind of stuff. >> And it was pegged. >> Pegged and it was coming out of the. ground. >> What is it? >> I don't know. I I mean I looked for it. I was like I was like scratching my head. running around crazy like a you know a. chicken with his head cut off. Not not. understanding what's going on. I I was. literally like a cockroach in a. microwave running around. Yeah. I was. running like trying to figure out what. was going on. >> Well, you drilled, you dug. What did you. What's down there? >> Uh, don't know. We So, we um we drilled.

in a spot where um ground penetrating. radar told us there was some big anomaly. in in there. And um when we we hit. something and we put pressure against. it, uh 8,000 lbs of pressure against it. for like minutes, many minutes. And. you'd think the drill bit would have got. hot didn't it cooled off, which is odd. The friction would have been enormous. unless it were frictionless. >> Odd. >> Impossible. >> Impossible. Right. Right. Unless it were. frictionless or something. Uh but what.

we found in the spoils pile when we. pulled uh pulled the drill bit out were. these pieces of metallic fragments and. ceram they were ceramic- like. And when. we went and had them analyzed, they were. uh they had been centered and built in a. blast furnace in a way that uh the the. experts in the material in the uh uh. metal uh metal energy lab said were like. tiles on the space shuttle that are used.

for re-entry. It's on Starship now, right? They use the same kind of tiles. Um it's not the exact chemical makeup, but were built or manufactured in the. same way. So there was something. manufactured inside this mason. It was. this was 377 ft in and 78 75 ft I think. down. >> Was this an alloy? >> Uh it's a mixture. It was a compound of. something. >> It was a compound. So it was made. >> it was made. Yes. >> What was what were the metals? What were. the components? >> Uh well so it had a little bit of uh.

aluminum in it. Oh, what's really. interesting is it had a mixture of 50%. aluminum and 50% iron in some of the. metal fragments, which we don't do that. We don't mix 50/50 aluminum and iron. No. What? Why? What is What is that? Where'd that come from? And then the. ceramic-l like fragments had uh all. sorts of materials in it like uh uh. there was some thorium. There was a uh. there was uh. >> So that's radioactive. >> Yeah, it was very low level. It was very. very very low level. It was uh what else. was in it? There was of course there was.

a lot of carbon there. There was a. little bit of aluminum. There was it was. almost like uh um aluminum uh cutting. blades. It was almost that kind of. material or I I originally said that was. kind of like a brake pad, you know, right? >> And I thought somebody's buried a car. down in there, right? But it wasn't. exactly a brake pad, right? It was more. like uh uh it was hard on the outside. and and more fragile on the inside. Uh. and we took it and put it in an electron. microscope at the University uh uh Utah.

Valley University in the physics. department there. And when we hit it. with electron beams, it would open up. And we turned electron beams off, it. would close back up in exactly the same. configuration. It did it every time. >> like like self-healing metal. >> Well, that's what we thought it was. We. thought we were blowing holes in it at. first and it was and it was healing. itself, >> but it uh it appeared to be more like an. umbrella that it was opening and closing. or a pom pom when you put it in a uh. static electric field how it or your. hair will stand up and then it will go. back down. It seemed more like that. Um.

I but it we're we're still doing a lot. more experimentation on that to figure. that out. And some of the metal. fragments we found were in layers. It. had the iron and aluminum mixture as the. middle the Oreo part and then the cookie. part was on one side was almost pure. toum and the other side was almost pure. europium. And that's really similar to how we. build solar panels. >> Mhm. And that's really odd also, you. know, how did that get inside this.

messa, you know, 30 something at at the. maximum the the maximum height or the. closest to the surface that our holes. got to was 38 ft down, but the the. materials we believe came out around 78. ft 75 ft down and 370 something feet in. >> How big is this object according to the. GPR? Um, well, it's it's like to 20 m. wide and and it could be as much as, you. know, 50 mters. It's like a cigar shape.

>> It's cigar shaped. >> Yeah, it looks it what tell you what it. looks like. And there's smaller pieces. all around it. It literally looks like. uh like an airplane crash debris field. It literally looks like something. crashed into the mea and there's pieces. spread out in in there. Uh I mean, and. here's the most bizarre thing. Um. we were looking at the material uh the. metal fragment and and from the. elemental analysis of it the night we. found it using equipment we had on the. ranch and u I said well it's not a.

meteor fragment and u the Eric Bard said. well the only thing it's missing to be a. meteor would be to have some nickel in. it the next morning. >> oh no. >> the archaeologist. pulled out of the same spot 370. something feet in 70 something feet. down. A 1964 nickel. >> What is going on in that? >> How can a 1964 nickel get inside the. mesa? >> It can't.

>> Well, so we went so it freaked me out, right? Our archaeologist said, "Well, that means there was a dig here." So, what do you mean? He said, "Oh, it's. standard protocol. Archaeologists are. trained that when you finish a dig, you. drop a coin from that year in the dig, so future archaeologists will know there. was a dig here." and he said, "I'll bet. you anything there was a dig here in. 1964.". So, I went and got uh me and me me and u. the other guys, we went and got every. publicly available u aerial photograph. of the property all the way from 1935.

[snorts] And what's interesting is from. 1963. to 1968, the uh 63 is the last one and then 69 is. the next one. There are no images from. 64 to 68 that are available publicly. None. zero. I don't like it, man. >> None. [laughter]. >> Can't be. >> And and and so it's it's really bizarre. that uh that that something happened. there and and and it's been it's been. covered. And we wonder there's this.

mythos of people say bad things happen. to you if you dig on Skinwalker Ranch. Makes me wonder if it was more of a. non-disclosure agreement saying bad. things will happen to you if you dig on. Skinwalker Ranch. >> It sounds like it. Um I mean, we were. talking earlier. I said, "I don't really. watch the show cuz I thought it was like. another Oak Island thing." And you're. like, "No, man. It's all real what we're. doing there.". >> Yeah. >> What did you find on the ranch that that. compelled you to go to Washington and. get a skiff? >> Yeah. So, well, that first day when um.

uh I started detecting these microwaves, they were they were at levels that would. be in violation of FCC regulations, right? >> Oh, I guess it could jam the satellites. >> Yes. Oh, so that and I was like, this is. somebody's doing something nefarious is. what I thought. I thought, is it. Russians? Is it Chinese? Is it some kid. doing something stupid? But. >> the battlefield disruption if you could. do that. >> Oh, lord. Yeah. And none of our GPS. stuff would work, right? >> So, I'm thinking, oh, somebody's jamming. GPS and and why? >> No guiding ordinance.

>> Well, think about airplanes landing at. an airport, right? >> It really was kind of freaking me out. So, I went to my uh I had security. clearance, you know, my day job was. still with the army. And I went and told. our security guys. I said, "Well, I. don't know what to do with that. Let me. see. Let me call around, see who you. need to talk to." And they kept handing. me off up the food chain. And at the. same time, one of our other guys, uh, that was there with me that day, um, one. of the scientists on the team, he had. contacted some contacts, and they kept. doing the same, going up trying to. figure, and eventually we got handed off. to, well, you need to have a meeting.

with these people in the Pentagon. And. so, all right. So, I flew up to the. Pentagon and briefed them on all the. data. We were going to skiff and these. two guys come in and uh I noticed that. one of them had a copy of uh my alien. invasion book which is a serious book I. wrote in uh 2003. uh with one of my mentors in the. intelligence community, Dr. Bob Bone. We. were at a three-letter organization. meeting and u serious book called Alien. Invasion. >> Yes, it's a it's a textbook on how we. would defend the planet and what we. should be doing to prepare.

>> Okay. >> Uh so yeah, we were in need. Yeah, we. were in this meeting is after, you know, two years after 9/11, we're in deep in. Operation Anaconda, all that stuff's. going on. And so this is a top secret. meeting on how to come up with clever. ways to understand asymmetric warfare. and all this stuff, right? You know, we. were on the high side. Of course, the. the Iraqis and the Afghanis and all. those were on the low side. So, we're uh. we're in this meeting and uh this three. star general makes this comment like, "Well, we need to put ourselves in our.

enemy's shoes and walk a mile in them so. we can understand how to think like. them." And I laughed. and um and at this time I was. >> You laughed out loud. >> Out loud. Yes. Yeah. At this time I was. like a GS14 equivalent and um uh and. this was a three star and and and he. kind of harumped you know and and and my. boss uh my mentor just he said he's like. oh what what's I know what's coming now. but our boss was a a one-star equivalent. in the threeletter organization and uh.

and he kind of looked at me like I don't. know if you should say anything but you. have something to say I said well sir uh. our poor people have Xboxes and and two. TVs and a car in the driveway and they. have $100 shoes. It's unlikely that. they'll ever be able to understand these. these people that we're fighting because. they have a completely different world. they live in. The only way Americans. would ever be on the low side of. asymmetric war was if we were invaded by. aliens. I was doing a typical southern.

thing explaining by exaggeration. Well, the general just kind of rolled. his eyes and moved on. So after the. meeting or or at a break in the meeting, we're in a in a in a break room and I'm. getting a soft drink or whatever and um. and and and the three-letter boss comes. up to me, three-letter organization boss. comes up to me and he says, "What would. we do if we were invaded by aliens?". >> That's my next question. >> And and uh and I said, "We'd probably. die.". >> Oh, no. [laughter].

And he said, "Well, do we have a plan?". And I'd say, "Well, I think you would. know more about that than I." He said, "Well, why don't you two look?" and he's. talked to me and my mentor and said why. don't you two look and see what you can. come up with and so we spent the next. year studying warfare warfare models uh. intelligence models technologies and it. led us to uh we kind of threw together. this book on all the things that we'd. studied and [snorts] of course we. briefed it at other levels but we but we. asked said can we publish this as a as a. book sure we don't care you uh and uh so.

we did and it's interesting on the cover. of the book uh the first version of of. it. Uh the chief scientist of the NRO. actually put on there that it was it was. fascinating. So um. anyway, we um uh so I'm in move back. move back to where we were with the. skinwalker story. So I'm in this room in. the Pentagon. This guy's got a copy of. my book and it's got some post-it notes. in it. And after a bit he asked. everybody else to leave but me and he.

says, "I'm Jay Stratton. I am the. director of uh the government's present. UFO program and I was at Skinwalker. Ranch in 2009 or whatever year it was. I. think it was 2009 and uh he said I'm I'm. aware of what's going on out there and. uh I'd like for you to come work for us. on the UAP task force. It wasn't called. that. It's called at the time it's. called the inter agency inter agency. task force and it was u that's just how. we referred to it. It was no official. title for it, but it was official and.

funded. It just didn't have an official. title. I think for a purpose, right? Right. >> If they give it a title, then they have. to worry about explaining it to. somebody. >> Right. AIP was not an official title. >> No. ATIP was never an official title. So. what it was, OAP was actually a. contract, >> right? That's Bigalow's program. >> Yep. And what it was, they actually. released a call for proposals and. Bigalow Airspace was the only company. that responded to the proposal. So I. mean, they awarded a contract. >> Sure. And uh then when uh so the.

interesting thing about that and and the. the award original award was for 20some. million dollars, >> but some people in the Pentagon found. out about what was going on, didn't like. it, and and pulled about half the money. And I think Bigalow, I don't I mean. rightfully so, got pissed. You know, he. didn't get all the money that he was. supposed to get. And um so what what you. got from the end results of that was. just a final report written by Eric. Davis and how put off or whatever and.

none of the details of the findings. Everybody thinks Bigalow still has. something hidden away somewhere here in. Vegas at his facility, you know. Um I I. whether that's the case or not, uh I it. doesn't matter. I mean what the. government got was what they got, >> right? >> And um. >> I don't think he's hiding anything. >> I don't I don't I don't think Biglo's. hiding anything at all. In fact, when. we've talked to him, um he doesn't have. any desire to go back to the property. >> Uh he he thinks it it was not beneficial.

to him and his family, right? And and uh. uh and and by the end of it, they were. so perplexed as to what the hell was. going on that I think they just kind of. gave up. >> And uh while they weren't while he was. happy to get rid of it, at the same. time, he's still curious. I think I. think him and well, I know him and Jay. still talk uh a lot. Uh, and I think him. and Brandon talk occasionally as well. Brandon Fugle, the new owner of the. property. >> Well, I think Bob wants to know what's. going on. He just doesn't want to pay. for it. >> Well, I get the impression that uh he. became a billionaire by not wasting his.

money, >> of course. >> And when I talked to the his team. members of the time, they didn't have a. lot of funds and a lot of resources, right? I mean, they they would get stuff. when they needed it. But and here's the. other thing. In the 90s and early 2000s. when they did this, the technology that. we're using today would have cost them. hundreds of thousands of dollars and. we're paying 50 bucks or hundred bucks. for something that's such a a really. exquisite piece of equipment now. >> So just due to you know more potential.

uh the new the research we're doing out. there now is is way better funded. It's. way better documented. I mean we got. better equipment just because technology. and improvement. Right. Before we get. back to the ranch, can you tell me. what's an alien invasion? What is our. strategy? What are our tactics? >> So, um, I created a model. Well, first. is to be prepared. That was our first. thing was basically the Boy Scout motto. Be prepared, right? And we're not. >> No. >> Uh, we're not we don't we when we talked. to people within the the services and.

the agencies, they all said, "We treat. it like any other invasion and and do. reconnaissance and then decide on a. tactical plan." They had no strategic. plan, right, for this. It's all going to. be we'll treat it just like any other. warfare, >> but it's not going to be like any other. warfare. If they can travel from here to. there, they're they're going to have. levels of technologies that uh will look. like magic. And we're going to have to. think about that. And we even actually. came up with scenarios that were. religious invasions, uh political. invasions, uh you know, magic that you.

know, things like that that we wouldn't. really or time invasions. Uh one of the. things that. >> time invasions. >> Yeah. Think about think about it like. this. I use Independence Day as a. perfect example. They people don't think. about what was going on in in. Independence Day. They say, "Well, that. ship crashed here in the 50s or whatever. and we were we had reverse engineered. much on it." Well, did it crash here in. the 50s for the aliens? If that mother. ship was approaching it and slowing down. from near the speed of light and they.

sent the scout ship out there, uh, it. could have been 5 minutes on board the. ship. Right. Right. and uh and they. could have been they could have known. that and been done something to prepare. us in a way that would embed weaknesses. into our systems, right? Uh so we're not. thinking about any strategic uh plans. like that. And so I created from what's. called Lchester's laws. It's where every. video game engine, every every combat. model, everything is based on. And they.

were created in 1917. and and Rico Fermy. should have known better when he when he. did his stupid Fermy's paradox thing. We. could talk about that, but that it's. just stupid. Um anyway, >> you think his paradox is stupid? Like. where where are the aliens? >> Yeah, that's the dumbest thing because. he based it on uh exponential growth. model. Yeah. >> And there was no known species period in. history that's ever grown that way and. with especially with no competition, etc. And uh and the way predator prey.

species work was known very well and it. was created a set of laws called. Lchester's laws in 1917. And that's like. I said uh Lchester was given money by. the war department to study predator and. prey uh models to create models for. warfare and it worked very well. Otherwise Call of Duty wouldn't work the. way it does. Right. Right. Fortnite. wouldn't work the way it does. All these. things wouldn't work the way they do. And uh so um anyway, if Fermy would have.

known that, he would have realized his. question was using math that didn't fit. the the the model, right? It was he. said, "Well, I'm going to apply this. math that we know doesn't fit any known. species and say, "Well, then all the. species in the universe have already. overrun us by now." Well, but that's not. the same model, is it? It's it's it's. really bad science. It's really bad. science. And for a Nobel Prize winning. Manhattan project physicist to have done. that. I call that the uh famous.

scientist phenomenon. >> Sure. >> Just because he was famous, everybody. believes it. Right. And I I I refer to. it as Fermy's blunder. I don't refer to. it as Fermy's paradox. >> Right. There's no such thing as. elephants. Why not? I've never seen one. >> That's right. I've never seen one. And. hey, people think that reindeer can't. fly. Have you ever seen them not? I. mean, have you Just because you haven't. seen them, it doesn't mean they can't. They just choose not to when you're. there. Right. So, uh that's that that's. that square root of four thing again. Right. >> So, um uh where were we going with it?

>> L Oh, yeah. So, so I created a model uh. in detail on a modern invasion scenario. that accounted for everything. mobile. forces, ground forces, air forces, artillery, blue on blue, which is you. know you know self uh infliction and uh. uh everything I I could think of in. embedded in the model and then started. running scenarios of invasions and I. would give the invading force force. multipliers. >> Mhm.

>> Uh like for example, it would take 10. hits of of of a 565 round, you know, before it would penetrate and they have. armor or force fields or whatever. Uh, >> this is the Call of Duty bullet sponge. >> pretty much. Yeah. Uh, and and I would I. would give them speed. Uh, maybe their. mobile forces were three times faster. I. tried all sorts of different scenarios. and uh and basically in no scenario uh. did we win and I did something like a. 100 to 200 different scenarios and the. only one that we that I did find a.

solution where we would win. It was. really interesting. I said, "Well, let's try Independence. Day. all of them at once. They come here. and they invade us and let's say that. they can get reinforcements back from. their home world say every 20 years and. uh to some amount of reinforcements. I. gave them numbers, right? If they start. started with some number, say they had. 100 to start with and they could get 10. every 10 whatever it was. Um and the. invasion starts they pretty much wipe.

out 90% of the population in the first, you know, day. But now here's the. scenario. Every human being of the age 14 or. older, which is I just guess that's the. age old enough to to carry a weapon. >> Mhm. >> Was carrying a weapon or in some form or. fashion supporting the war effort. Every. female of fertile age was pregnant with. triplets. >> Okay. >> Uh and at that point, >> this is the way we win. >> Yes.

>> Okay. And at that point uh the. population starts in cycles increasing. >> Sure. >> To a point where we uh we had a. resistance basically uh an asymmetric. situation and after about 40 years it. became too expensive for the aliens and. they would either completely be attred. or give up and leave. And when I got to. looking at the model I realized I just. recreated the Soviet Afghan war. >> Yes. in the 70s. Yes. And.

>> and that's exactly what happened right. now. The only thing different is the. Afghanis did have a a symmetric uh. organization feeding technologies to. them. >> They did. >> u you know we gave them you know. anti-aircraft weapons and stuff. >> but uh or anti-helicopter mostly. >> but uh that that was the only scenario. where we is if we create a you know a. resistance movement we we repopulate as. fast as possible. And so I was thinking, you know, fertility drugs, whatever. Uh,

>> is it America only or the whole. >> the whole world? >> The whole world. Yeah. So that that has. to happen, too. Yeah. Everybody's got to. get get in line. >> Yeah. Well, so the onslaught at the. beginning would would just remove, you. know, government lines. >> That's true. >> Yeah. It's just it's it's Terminator at. that point, right? Yeah. >> I got to read this. It's kind of dark. >> It's Yeah, it's it's uh it reads very. it's it was it was written like a. textbook. It was dry. it but it but it. it it is to say all right somebody needs. to look at this and realize we're not.

doing it. You know, one of the things. that um that Jay and I had had planned. to do and I it's one of my plans I I. I've written about I've talked about. that the first thing you have to do to. create a a real team uh is they have to. have a common nomenclature. And so for the first month, two months, I would have the entire team watching. every science fiction movie, reading. every comic book, watching every cartoon. because I'll give you a perfect example. Um John Ringo, best-selling military.

science fiction writer and I uh. co-authored a book called Vonoyman's. War. Uh is a science fiction uh. basically of vonorman probes came here. and we started defending against them. Well, I had one of the they they did. this in the book. They had a team where. they they got together and they spent. like two weeks cramming on every sci-fi. thing they could. And somebody realized. that in the second season of Justice. League Unlimited, there was an episode called Dark Heart.

And Dark Heart was a vonoman probe. generating device crashed on Earth and. started creating vonoyman probes, replicators. It's going everywhere. And. they were eating everything and. reproducing themselves. And the entire. Justice League couldn't defeat these. things. It was Superman and all of them, you know. And uh it took the the atom. Ray Park, Dr. park to uh uh uh realize. he had to go down in nanocale and find. their their main processor chip they had. the program to replicate and turn it.

off. But uh the spoiler, I guess. Uh, but I had the nomenclature to be able to. tell tell people, hey, what if it's the. dark heart scenario and we need to. figure out if there's something like. what they how they did that, you know, or or what if and not to, you know, throw rocks at a Steen Spielberg movie, but if you ever saw the uh the. miniseries he did that made Dakota. Fanning famous, Taken. >> Yes. >> And if you watch Disclosure Day, they're. the same plot. >> Yes. >> Did you notice that?

>> Of course, >> it was the same plot. Uh, everything I. didn't love that movie. >> Yeah, it it I was I was hoping for for. It was It was not bad. It was a It was a. movie. >> It was a Spielberg movie. >> Yeah. Uh uh it it was but but my my. point was I just used a previous. nomenclature to tell you what this. scenario was. And now I don't have to go. and and figure out a way to explain it. to everybody. Right. We have a common. language that we can speak. I could say, "Oh, you remember that episode of. Stargate SG1?". >> Right. >> Right. Where they did this or that? Are.

you remember we had a conversation. earlier where I brought up Star Trek. Next Generation, the episode of the. Threes, right? I get it now. >> Yeah. >> And and so that's that's our common. nomenclature. And I wonder. if we've been doing that by accident on. purpose. That's interesting. >> Yeah. I hope so. >> I hope so, too. Oh, speaking of your books, your first. book, I think, was about a physicist who. does something and gets like the the.

government. angry or the cabal or something like. that. Was that warp drive? >> So, uh, warp speed. >> Warp speed. >> Well, it was a little it's a little. So, it was about the first group of uh. scientists that uh that build a warp. drive demonstrator. >> Mhm. And they um they go to this is. space shuttle era. So this was written. in 2000. Uh and they go up to do the.

experiment on the shuttle and um. unbeknownst to them of course there are. some bad guys who realize that a warp. drive would be much better than a. nuclear weapon. >> Sure. >> If you slammed it into the slammed an. object into the planet at you know speed. the speed of light, you know, you'd. crack the planet in half or whatever. uh you know I don't know why people. would want a weapon that would do that. unless you're planning on fighting a. whole planet but um and so there was a. lot of mayhem that ensued with that and. it turned out uh the sequel to that.

actually I I went more into what that. cabal was and it didn't have anything to. do with gray aliens from Zeta Reticuli. >> Well, you eventually you you spent a lot. of time in the intelligence community. So what did that author get right? Uh. what what did I get right in that? >> What did you get right? What did I get. right? >> Over your career. You're like, "Well, I wrote about that 10 years ago.". >> Yeah. So, you know, I had to um uh. before I could release those the the. first ones, I was heavy into the the IC.

stuff and they had to pre-eread it and. and and doers would call it now, you. know, say it's you can release it to the. public. And then after I I started being. more prolific. I wrote about four or. five science fiction novels all at one. It come comes and goes in surges, right? And and so the review team was like, "We're not going to keep doing these. You know, if it's classified or not, don't put it in there. Uh if you do, you'll get in trouble." Right? I mean, that's basically And so they they said, "We're not reviewing your science. fiction stuff anymore. It's science. fiction." Uh, and so, but I've always.

done my best to make it hard science, uh, as true to possible as it could be, uh, with as few magic wands as possible. Of course, there has to be a magic wand. that, you know, we haven't invented yet. or or or it's not as much fun. Uh, I. mean, would Raiders of the Lost Arc be. as awesome if the ark didn't do what it. did at the end? >> No, you need the faces to melt. >> Yeah, you have to, right? Uh, so, uh, that that's kind of the way they are. But I I I I got I did things like with.

security clearances and and and Oh, you. couldn't carry a cell phone. Like that's. one of the things that kills me about. Stargate SG1 is uh they get a lot of it, right? But you'll see them in the in in. the facility with their cell phones. >> Yeah. And I'm like, there's a lock box. right outside the door that, you know, there's no cell phones in there, unless. they had some kind of alien technology. that allowed them to have super secret. cell phones that that could do that. But.

there there there a lot of little things. like that that get on my nerves when I. see that. >> How close was your warp drive to like. the Alba drive? >> So, it was basically an Alcubi uh Yeah. So, so explain how that works. >> Yeah. So uh in 1994 Miguel Aubier wrote. a a paper called something like uh hyper. fast travel within general relativity. And the uh the paper showed that if you. created a basically a a dip in space in.

front of you and a bump in space behind. you that uh that spacetime itself would. push your spacecraft. Not you wouldn't need propulsion uh you. know exhaust or anything. It would just. space time would move it. >> You just fall. >> Yep. And keep falling. Right. And you. can make it fall as fast as you want to. arbitrarily fast speeds. He said but the. problem with his paper is he showed that. it took basically all the matter in the. universe uh energy-wise to create that.

but immediately but so but that's okay. He showed that it was doable within the. the the theory of physics as we. understand it, our standard model. And. uh then that says okay then if he can do. it this way are there other ways to do. it that makes it you know actually. engineeringable engineerable I guess. Uh. anyway so immediately before he wrote it. in '94 before 2000 there were I'm going. to say 100 papers written where they. kept in incrementally getting his theory.

better. the idea better that uh okay we. could and it got down to say oh the mass. of a star then oh wait the the mass of a. planet now and you know I recently had a. paper published about a year ago in uh. journal British and planetary uh society. uh that showed that if you made layers. of material uh and you had the warp. field in the material that you could get. to almost no uh exotic uh matter.

requirement and and and it's not the. matter the mass of a star or the mass of. a galaxy you can get down to you actual. numbers that we could actually engineer. >> I think I read this paper is this about. the electromagnetic field through the. through the wave guides of the of the. metal. >> it's similar uh that was one of the. papers there's a paper like that that I. use as a reference okay. >> but uh I'll send you a copy of it it. actually shows that uh the idea is you. can modify Einstein's equations in the.

material. >> Mhm. Mhm. >> Right. So, it's like you don't change. the speed of light in the air, you. change the speed of light in the. material that is the hole of your. spaceship, which really I got the idea. from some of the whistleblower uh. statements on how they number one also. from the original arts parts and I can't. talk about the stuff without talking. about Art Bell. Um. >> he's he's on my list. >> Yeah. So, uh, back in the 90s, I was a. master's degree student in physics at.

the time, working for the army in a in a. directed energy weapons laboratory, and. I heard Linda How talking about the. parts that she had received or that Art. had received and that she was. investigating uh that allegedly came. from the Roswell crash. And so, I. emailed Linda How and said, "I'm a. scientist with the army. I have a. laboratory. My bosses says, okay, I. could use the lab at, you know, after. work hours." Well, hang on. If we're. going to talk about this, let's set it. up. So, so someone calls Artbell and. says, "I've got this stuff." And he. says, "If it's real, send it to me." And.

they did. And then Art sends it to you. >> Yes. After I emailed and said, "I'm a. scientist for the army. I'd love to.". Right. He said, "So Art and Linda How. said, okay, we're going to send it to. you and you do what you can do.". >> And so they sent me all the information, then the letter, a copy of the letter. that the guy had sent to Art Bell. And. so I got the parts and I started. investigating them. They were really. interesting. They were layers of u of a. magnesium zinc alloy uh between and. between those there's like one Oreo.

cookie on top of another and the and the. double stuff was pure bismouth. >> Mhm. >> And uh and it was really thin like uh I. think it was like four microns or. something like that. Really really thin. And they were stacked together and they. were tens of layers and they weren't. delaminating. They weren't peeling. apart. And uh every attempt that I did. and I anybody that I know and I even. know that some folks at the skunk works. tried to reproduce them and they could. never reproduce the material without. them pulling apart. And I I know that.

even at the skunk works they destroyed a. million dollar piece of equipment trying. to reproduce the parts and and so since. no since we never could reproduce the. parts number one tells me somebody spent. a lot of money or got really lucky if it. was a hoax trying to do it. >> And then my other thought was okay it. was for something. Well, in the letter. it says if you get it in a million volt. static electric field and expose it to. certain frequencies that it'll do. things. So, I built a million volt uh. static field generator and uh then I uh.

put the materials in there and and I. found that when I hit it with a. particular frequency I don't remember. exactly. I have to look it was around 30. to 40 megahertz. I know that's. interesting that number comes up. It is. right. It's around 30 to 40 MHz that um. it every single time once it was charged. up to a million volts and I would hit it. with that the object would either move. directly towards the antenna or directly. away from the antenna. And I and it was. repeatable. And. >> is there video of this?

>> There was I videoed it all and sent to. Linda. She's got it. I think it's on her. website actually. >> Okay. >> Um this was in the '9s. Man, >> I would think the military would want to. talk to you about this. Well, they never. did. >> Okay. >> And then uh when I got on the UAP task. force, I realized that uh the parts that. Tom Dong had uh were the same parts. >> The same exact parts. >> Same exact parts that I sent back to. Linda How when I was done with them. >> Tom got arts parts. >> Yeah.

>> Wow. And uh and uh so his team were were. looking at it and there was a guy that. was working uh so somehow they were you. know Tom and Jay knew each other through. uh circles and so Jay was very aware of. the research and had me connect with. them and I told them what I had seen and. they had tried it and they said they had. seen I think the similar things and. nobody had still been able to reproduce. them and this is 20 years later right? So in 20 something years and see I never.

had any funding to look at it. I mean I. just did it on my own spare time after. hours in the lab and uh and so Jay and I. were going to do more with it at this. point. We were supposed to get funding. uh for the UAP task force to look into. these things. So my point about arts. parts is I'm not saying they're alien. I. don't know what they are. But whoever. made them had some purpose for them. >> Sure. And if it was a hoax, it was a. dang expensive or or clever hoax because.

we haven't been able to reproduce those. same materials in the same way and keep. them to from falling apart. >> You can't organize bismouth at the. micron level. >> Well, so they were the way we reproduced. them was [snorts] vacuum vapor. deposition. >> Uhhuh. >> But it it peeled peeled off every time. >> Uh and so I I don't know how this was. put together. And it's really. interesting to me. there's a there's a. sort of a random jaggedness to the.

interface between the bismouth and the. metal part and uh how put off and Eric. Davis uh they suggested that it was some. sort of fractal pattern that enabled it. and uh so I got to looking into it and. if it is a fractal pattern then perhaps. what it's doing is creating. uh points where cohesion can actually h. where it can stick stickiness, right? Like mander walls between the the points.

that are close to each other. >> Uh and maybe that's what's helping hold. it together. But that's just a. hypothesis. And again, >> there's never not been any money really. spent to reproduce these things or or. reverse engineer them. Uh the same. problem happened with the Kona blue. thing, right? Um that you know that's. where Hal was supposed to get some parts. to work on and and uh it got right up to. the end and then some people had it. crushed and didn't let didn't give them. the parts. >> That's right. Kona blue with a K. If you.

guys want to look that up, how close was. that that sandwich technique to what you. found in the ranch? >> So when I first saw the metal flakes. that had the aluminum iron coated with. torium and europium, >> you said coated. Well, so it's like uh. the center substrate is a it's maybe a. tenth of a millimeter of aluminum iron. alloy and then on the top on one side. well top or bottom I don't know what's. but on one side uh it was almost pure.

torium and on the other side it was. almost pure europium. Okay, >> which is clearly manufactured but why I. don't know. Um, and so that just because. it was layered like that is is the one. thing I thought was interesting. Uh, that was similar. It looked like visibly. it looked very similar to the arts parts. material. >> Would that stuff conduct electricity? >> Oh. Oh, yeah. The aluminum iron mixture. or you talking about arts parts stuff? >> No, the stuff you found would conduct. >> Yeah. Uh uh and I tell you what, the the.

ceramic that we found, it was really. interesting because it was u it was. paramagnetic if not superconducting at. room temperature. >> At room temperature. >> Yeah. We could hold it over a magnet and. it would jump away from the magnet. And. this is a ceramic-l like material. And. we put it in a liquid nitrogen bath and. it would never cool down. So, and I mean it continually boiled off. at a high rate the the n liquid. nitrogen. So, it's energetic ceramic. >> It's doing something that's not letting.

itself cool down. That's all I That's. all I know. We let it sit for an hour in. the liquid nitrogen. Had to continually. refuel. And the liquid nitrogen was. boowing off at a rate faster than. standard liquid nitrogen boloff. >> Are you guys just standing around like I. don't know. I don't know what what it's. doing. >> That's exactly what we're doing. We're. standing what the hell's going on? And. I've never seen anything like this in. the morning. Now, the really weird. thing, and we need to reproduce this. many times before I'll really stand up. and down and say there's something to. it, but I took a um we call them dullies. on Rocket City Rednecks cuz they.

wouldn't let us say Sharpie on TV, but I. took but I took a dolly and I put a dot. on one side of the ceramic material. And. then I put it in a metler balance and uh. I held a magnet above the the thing and. I and I tested it many times to make. sure I was I found the range where I. wasn't affecting the balance and uh I. held a magnet over it and got the. weight. Then I just flipped over the. material and did repeated the. experiment. One side was always heavier. than the other. >> Wow. I and then we did that like 20.

times that day we had the materials in. the lab and and it was uh the average. over the 20 times was always the side. one side was always heavier than the. other and it was the same side it was. always heavier than the other. >> I don't know if this is the right term. but have you ever heard of flux pinning? >> Yes. In fact that came up in that came. up in Yes. You have to explain that but. that's crazy this came up flux. Okay. >> So the idea so that's basically the. misner effect right? So if you take a.

superconductor and um you put it. whenever it becomes superconducting the. and you typically see this in the videos. they'll pour the liquid nitrogen over. the little ceramic block and then it'll. start floating. >> Mhm. Well, so as soon as it becomes. superconducting, it it sets itself up up. interiorwise. that it is map mapping out the magnetic. field it's exposed to currently. Now if. you change that magnetic field, the. superconductor had already pinned the.

flux inside the superconductor in a way. that it will always oppose any changes. so that the magnetic field stays the. same inside the superconductor. So. that's why if you touch it, it'll spin. itself back to the orientation where the. magnetic field was. That's why you can. thump them there to sit there and spin. forever because it's trying to get. itself back to where the magnetic field. is the way it was when it first became a. superconductor. >> Yep. >> And so we thought about this well is it. possible that this is room temperature. Meisner effect that we're seeing happen.

And uh it but we we were hoping that we. would see other superconducting. properties uh and we haven't seen but. what we do see is something that it's. paramagnetic like which is light. superconducting like it's it's like. there's there's almost superconducting. and it's it's kind of what we call. paramag paramagnetic and um so this is. one of the most baffling. So this is. another one of the things we can't. explain is coming out of skinwalker. ranch. Let's take a quick break. When we come. back, I want to know what can shut off a.

drone at 3,000 ft. >> Oh, yeah. Absolutely. >> So, seven years of instruments have. sketched out something on that property. where GPS doesn't work. And what is. going on with the drones? What can shut. off a drone at exactly the same height? >> That's that's really bizarre. And and. how? Because the drone comms are. encrypted. And uh so if you're talking. about the uh experiment that we actually. just showed this past week, I think. >> uh. >> 3271. >> Yeah. So we got up to just over 3,000.

ft. We It's really interesting. Over the. years, we've flown weather balloons, helicopters, rockets, drones, all sorts. of things. Well, drones can't go higher. than 400 ft without a special permit, >> right? >> Uh but we've we've flown all the way up. to 10,000 ft above sea level. Uh a. little bit higher, maybe 11,000. uh. because uh we've we've measured. anomalies there with instruments and and. the the weather balloon we launched. there went up to 70,000 ft and we. measured stuff all the way up through to. about 20,000 ft. There were high.

electromagnetic fields that were surging. on a perfectly clear day and the. instruments acted like they had gone. through an electrical storm. >> and it's happening up in the atmosphere. >> all the way from the surface upwards in. that one spot over the property. And. what's really weird is we've launched. balloons before and the air currents. will take them and they'll go, you know, miles and miles and miles. But uh we we. had uh one day where we launched a. balloon there and it went straight up. and came straight down and landed on the. property. >> That shouldn't happen. >> No, it shouldn't happen. No, it.

[laughter] can't that can't happen. Are. you kidding? I've done a lot of how to. balloon launches with instruments on. them and I find them in the next state, you know. I don't I don't find if if you. find them at all. Right. >> Yeah. And so we flew one that had a um. tracker on it and when it got to 5,000. ft it vanished. The tracker quit. working. The balloon went away. We. literally sitt there watching it and. then none of us could see it anymore. Um. >> did it ever show up? >> Nobody ever found it. Nobody ever found. it. And we never found the And it had a. tracker on it. Tracker just went away. Um and and so the we've we hit a so a.

few years back we had an anomaly where. rockets kept messing up around 30 feet. above the launch pad in this one spot. >> 30 ft. >> around 30 ft. >> And uh in fact we had a big one. We. spent a lot of money on building it. Had. a lot of instruments in it. And at 31 ft. it exploded. And uh so we were doing an. experiment with a high-speed camera and. a rocket in the same spot. and there was. a flash of light and then the rocket. exploded at 31 ft. And then in the.

high-speed infrared camera, there was an. appearance of an object overhead that. was tens of meters across the when I. when it it looked like Galactis's helmet. in in the video. I mean, it has a like a. Vik it had a thing like this or but then. we found it in another camera that was. 90° off. So, it's orthogonal and it. looked exactly the same. So it uh it. suggest geometric symmetry like a. sombrero. >> Yeah. >> Right. That's kind of what I'm thinking. is like a sombrero. >> So it wasn't exactly opposed. It was an.

angle. So it had to be. >> it had to be symmetric or if you look at. something that's in another dimension. >> Yeah. >> It always will look the same. >> Right. It's like a hyper cube. >> Yeah. And so it was the tesaract, right? Or tesaract. >> So it was one of those things that made. that you know I said for fun. Uh but but. what we have the data what we have was. when we hit this thing at 31 ft the. rocket exploded um there was a flash of. light and the object that we captured. whatever it was we couldn't see with the. naked eye but in the infrared it was. sitting there over our heads at 31 ft.

We refer to it as the blob because it. looks kind of like a blob which tell you. this is weird. We found a Navajo sand. painting that looks just like what we. saw in the infrared uh which I find. really odd. Right. Yeah. What a. coincidence. But anyway, so uh we've continually seen. anomalies, large energetic anomalies in. this location. And so we put a. terrestrial laser scanner LAR system. there to map out and see if we can see. anything in there. And what came back.

and has been repeated 20 30 different. times now with multiple instruments that. there is some sort of bubble uh that's. 2,000 ft in radius that is uh expanded. over the property. It shows up every. time in these terrestrial laser scans. and we've used more than one instrument. and more than one brand of instrument. and it shows up and we've measured now. with the drones flying through this area. where the bubble is. Uh their 5 GHz. communication signal is completely cut.

off while they're in. 120 ft thickness region where we. estimate the bubble is according to the. LAR. Uh so we were like well let's go up. to the top of it that 2,000 ft spot. That's what we were trying to get to. And and when the uh also when the. balloon had gone up and we got. measurements, there was a big hit on. electromagnetic energy at 3200 ft. So we. were like, well, maybe there's something. at 32000 ft. And then there was another. one at 5,000. >> Same frequency. >> Uh well, with the balloon, it was broad,

it was broadspectctrum instrument. It. was a bucket. Uh so that was the drones. that could told us the 5 GHz thing. because they they have two comm. frequencies that are encrypted. One's. around 5 GHz, 5 point something GHz and. one's at uh uh like 2.45 or something, right? >> And um it's interesting, >> but it's strange that we've got. interference at all these frequencies. that we use. >> Yes, I know that it sounds sounds sort. of designed, doesn't it? >> It does. >> Yeah. So, we were hoping to get the. drones up to 5,000 ft because a lot of.

people think we're just doing a a drone. light show because these guys are like. super light show guys. Sky Elements, they they did the Wolverine and Deadpool. thing at at Comic-Con, you know. >> I think they're in Guinness. >> Yes. The most drones at one time. Yeah. Right. >> Well, uh but what people don't. understand to do those shows, they have. the most precise uh navigation systems. on those drones in sequence than any. other system on the planet. Right. >> I don't know how they do it. >> Yeah. It's it's fantastic. and uh and on.

and there's something like uh 61 or. something like that instruments on each. one of these little drones. They're. measuring everything from magnetic. fields to electric fields to to uh. inertia changes to uh gravitational. They're measuring everything. So they. actually are exquisite scientific. instruments. The lights is just a. benefit, right? >> And you can see it visually and track. them with cameras as well. >> So uh we designed an experiment. We were. going to take uh a bunch of them uh like.

a hundred of them all the way up to. 5,000 ft. And nobody had ever flown. swarm that high. They had to get special. uh FCC and FAA uh uh waiverss to do it. And so they were doing the test flights. first with just four of them. and they. got four of them up to and it's really. interesting because while this. experiment was going on I had CO. >> and and so I had to stay in my in my. Jeep uh with instruments and stay a long. way away and just watch it from a. distance and just kind of be a spotter,

right? And I felt like crap. But uh so. as the drones were going up, everything. looked normal and they were chasing them. with one of those drones they race with. They called them a FPV, first person. viewer drone. And uh so it was going. around like 50 mph zipping around him as. it going up. And it gets to a point. where something just literally pushed. the FPV drone away. And the guy said, "I've never seen anything like that.". And we've got that captured on. You see. it here and then suddenly boom, it's. just like something reached out and. grabbed it and just slung it. >> I mean, it's like, you know, superhero.

kind of looking stuff, you know. And. then the drones go a few more feet up. and you see the lights start blinking. and then they do a quick jump to the. southwest and then something just turned. them off and they fell straight down and. they fell from 3200 uh I think it was. 3217 or something like that. 3200 feet. give or take. And um. >> did they fall all the way down? >> Straight crash straight down. And I mean. I'm in the field, you know, just outside. the bubble, 2,000 feet away, yelling,

"Guys, take cover. They're falling right. on top of it. What the hell's going on? Is everybody okay? Somebody say. something?" And I know they're ducking. under cars and stuff. They don't have. time to talk to me on radio. But um uh. and so they looked through the software. and something. encoded into the drones while they were. flying a sub routine that was a kill. command. >> No way. >> So this wasn't like interference. >> No. Something literally told them to.

turn themselves off. But but here's the. thing. It didn't tell them to turn them. off. It was a kill command. It literally. said the sub routine was literally the. guys said this. We've never seen it. We. didn't code this. We don't know what it. is. It's a kill command. I said, "What. do you mean kill command?" He says, "It. means to kill itself. It's going to. crash itself into the ground as fast as. it can from 3,000 ft." And um so they. repeated with a new set of drones. And. when they got to that altitude, the. exact same thing happened again. >> Submarine.

>> Yep. And so this is where they said, "Okay, uh we're not doing this again. tonight.". >> This is expensive. [laughter]. >> Yeah. Well, those drones are like uh uh. they told us cuz three years before we. had what we call drone again. >> Um and so they were going to fly a. thousand drones, 600 of them at the. triangle and 400 in the east field out. So one's inside the bubble, one's. outside the bubble. We didn't know about. the bubble yet. Uh but we had an anomaly. out there and an anomaly in here. And we. want to see if they were connected. And. so the idea was we thought the anomalies.

were localized. We're going to create a. cylinder on each end and surround the. cylinder to surround the spot where the. anomaly is with a cylinder of them and. then fire a rocket up through the. middle. So if someone's going to get out. of the way, you'll see the drones move. That's a great idea. >> That was that was our experiment plan. And we're doing that simultaneously on. each end. Well, the drones they. practiced off property and they were. accurate to within a microcond. [snorts]. Okay. They bring them on property and uh. they could only get of the 600 that was. launched fine the day before somewhere.

else. They could only get 400 of them to. go up and when the 400 got up they. launched 7 seconds later than they were. supposed to. Then ours went up. Ours got. up and on my end they created the. cylinder and started going around the. anomaly. And then on the other end is. theirs get up to they got to about uh 30. something feet and then they started. going crazy and they jumped to 70s. something feet and started falling out. of the sky. But they weren't just. falling, they were physically chasing. people. What.

>> one of the guys literally took his. leather jacket off and was beating them. uh off of off of camera guys and um and. on my end and we hear we hear over the. radio it's raining drones down here. Everybody get in your effing cars. just. get get in your cars. And I on my end, our cylinder formed, but when they got. there and the cylinder was 300 feet. tall. Now, these drones are like a 5 lb. brick. Okay? So, they're battery. They're all like all battery, right? So, you imagine dropping a 5 lb battery from. 300 ft. If it hit you in the head, you. know, you're not walking away from that.

>> Nope. >> And so, we're out there, the cylinder's. up, and uh there's the action camera. guy, me and another guy, Dragon. We're. there about to launch the rocket and. sudden we hear thud and we turn and look. and the camera guy puts his camera light. down on the ground and there's one of. the drones between us and we look up and. there's another one coming right and. we're holy crap everybody we scatter you. know and we we get up there and the. drones are just they start chasing us. the cylinders following us and they even. had a fence so we had a safety procedure. that if something goes wrong we were to.

run to the southwest cuz the drones were. geo fenced off with the GPS it could not. go there well they didn't care about. that geo fence they kept chasing us and. dropping drones at us like bombs. Uh and. u that that continued for a good five 10. minutes something like that before all. the drones finally got on the ground and. uh they lost um we added up they lost. something like a million dollars sure in. that experiment and the company was like. they they do you know one every day. somewhere in the world and they're.

making so much money I think it was to. them they just kind of smiled and said. well we learned something and we're like. yeah you learned you lost a million. dollars worth of drones but um. So they ruggedized them for the next. year and so on and they keep bringing. back better ones, but something still. keeps affecting them. And this was, you. know, three generations from drone. And. these drones still when they got to this. spot at 4,000 ft, something managed to. get inside them, change the code, and. force them to kill themselves. >> Could they do another iteration to. prevent the code change?

>> Well, I'll have to say stay tuned on. that. >> Something tells me it doesn't matter. [laughter] what they do. I I you know. it's so funny to me that there of course. the skeptics and and things in the toxic. verse out there started saying well you. guys could just program the drones to do. all that. I'm like yeah for a million. dollars. Have you seen what a. documentary series budget actually is? It's not that. >> No it's not. >> not for one episode. That's basically. that's that's basically our entire. engineering budget for a whole season. So, it sounds like there's there's.

something there that is sensient that. doesn't want I mean. >> well so uh the Bigalow guys left us with. a narrative and in fact I think it was. Colonel Alexander that actually made up. the words or it could have been Keller. but I've heard Alexander say it of a u. precognitive. sentient intelligence. >> Yeah, that's his. >> right and and that's what they said they. think the ranch is. I don't know. But precognitive that. means it can it it knows what we're.

going to do ahead of time. >> Well, I asked him, does that mean that. the future is written and it can see it. or does can it detect your intent? And. he's like, we don't know. >> We believe, and this is purely from. belief, with our personal experiences. Anytime [snorts] we've done something on. the fly, we've surprised whatever it is. >> That's interesting. >> Uh because we found the blob that first. rocket night where we hit whatever it. was over the triangle and we saw it in. the cameras. We were supposed to do a. different experiment and something fell. through at the last minute and we didn't.

have anything to do but we had the crew. and we're like, "Well, we got to do. something." And I said, "Well, let's. just go to the we got this high-speed. camera guy. Let's just take it out to. the triangle and shoot a bunch of. rockets and just see if the anything. happens." And we did and something. happened. And that was like literally we. thought of it in like 10 minutes, went. and set up and started doing it. And uh. and and we've seem to, you know, maybe. sneak up on whatever it is when we do. things like that. And so we believe. uh when we add an intent to something. we're about to do, that's when we get a.

response from the property. E it either hides itself or makes itself. visible for us to to notice if it wants. us to do something or don't want it. I. know it sounds stupid, crazy, whatever. I remember laughing at the guys the. first day I met them when they said the. ranch will respond to me. They said it. responds to different people in. different ways. And I laughed at them. said, "It's just a piece of property. It's dirt. How's it going to respond? >> Every skeptic comes back with the same. story like something's going on, man. I. don't know what it is. >> I was as skeptical as they could be when.

I went out there, man. And I I I've been. out there. This is be my eighth year. And I still I know there's so I'm I'm. not uh people say, you know, are you an. experienced or whatever? Say no, I'm not. an experiencer. I'm a knower. I know. that whatever is there is something. I. just don't know what the hell it is. >> Is it is there other properties like. this around the world? >> So, yeah, I believe there are. We uh did. a brief foray into some other places. because we're planning some maybe some. future experiments. Uh maybe in Dulce, New Mexico. >> Oh boy.

>> Out at Secret Mountain. >> Yeah. >> Uh out at uh Mount Shasta. >> Yeah. >> Use all the places. >> Mount Wilson perhaps. You know, um there. there are some play there's a place in. upstate New York too and I don't I don't. remember exactly what it's called, but. we've had a lot of people reporting. phenomena back to us from there. uh. somewhere. It's a wilderness, you know, in upstate New York. So, >> all the native tribes have stories about. these places. >> Yeah. Well, you know, upstate New York. would have been like what the Moheakans. probably. >> Sure. >> Yeah. >> So, any of any of that. But, uh that's.

an interesting point you bring that up. because the the Aboriginal species of. the of the local seem to somehow be more. in tuned or connected to whatever is. going on. the Navajo and the youth. really really are connected. They like. uh the Navajo don't even like to talk. about the place, you know. They they'll. even they'll turn away and look away. from it if they they you know get close. to it sometimes. >> Yeah. Mount Shasta. The tribes don't go.

above the tree line because that's. that's the dwelling of the sky people. You don't go there. >> So, you know, that's what how do you. what do you do with stories like that? You know, I I had a I was at work one. day. This is before I retired. this. before I uh started just working from. home as a consultant. I was working for. a company called Radiance right after I. quit the government. And um I got a. phone call and this lady says um uh this. Dr. Taylor said, "Yeah." And she said, "I'm the eldest female of such and such.

tribe." And I don't want to say who it. is cuz I don't want to get anybody, you. know, into trouble or whatever. I don't. know if it get them in trouble, you. know, they didn't give me permission to. to talk about them. >> Fair enough. So, um, but she said, "Uh, uh, and we've been debating on talking. to you for a couple of years now, and we. finally took a vote and decided that we. needed to reach out." I said, "Yeah, you. and about a million other people, lady.". And she said, "No, I really am who I who. I say I am. So, this is my name. Go on. the internet and look me up and find a. phone number to contact me and then. you'll know." I said, "That's fair.

enough." So she hung up and I look up u. this tribe and I see the elders and. there's this this lady's name and a. phone number for you know for the tribal. center or whatever. So I called there. and said hey this may sound weird but uh. this lady said oh Dr. Taylor. Yeah. She. said hang on and they transferred me and. then the lady picked up the phone. It. was it literally was her and I said oh. okay so you got my attention now. Yep. >> Right. [laughter]. And she said, "So they told us that they.

bring you inside the messa all the time, but you refuse to remember it.". >> Oh, it just gave me chills. >> And I said, "What? >> What is she talking about?". >> And and I said, "Who is they?" She said, "You know who they are." I said, "No, [laughter]. I don't. No, I don't have any idea what. you're talking about, lady." and she. said, "They told us uh that they are. bringing you in to show you what's going. on at the property at Skinwalker Ranch. and and that you refuse to remember it.".

And I said, "What? You saying I can't. remember it?" She said, "No, you they. said you refused to remember it and we. wanted you to know. We felt like you. needed to know this." And I was like, "Okay, who are they?" She said, "The Sky. people.". >> No. >> And and and so then I I like Okay. Thank. you, ma'am. Thanks. I'll I'll keep that. under adisement. What do you do with. something like that? I don't know. Well, so this is all this is linked to. something that we just talked about. So, uh, I was while I was working at.

this same place within days of this. phone call, uh, Jay and I had hooked up. with some people who had a private black. ops kind of group that if we found. something that was down somewhere, they. were going to try to get to it before. somebody else could. And um, so they had. um hired this remote viewer that she's. supposed to be like like the remote. viewer presently. And you know, Paul. Smith verified it. So I'm like, "Okay, Paul says she's real. She's real.".

>> Mhm. >> And um uh so um she called me and she. said, "Uh Dr. Taylor, are you u uh. do you realize that uh they've taken you. and you and you don't know it?" No, I'm. not getting into this abduction stuff. again. And. >> this is after the call with the. >> Yeah. Okay. >> And she said and I said, "What are you. talking about?" She said, "Oh, it was. years ago." She said, "I can see it. they're showing me now. I'm like, "Oh, they're you're talking to them now." And. she said, "Yes." And you know, this is.

one of those things, but remote viewing. is real and I understand the phys the. science of that that we've measured it. We know it's real from statistical. variations and stuff, but. >> Well, after the story, I want you to. explain how that works. >> But Okay. But but but. when you take it this far with, you. know, >> so you're saying it works, but but you. don't want any part of it? >> No. No, no, no, no, no. When you take to. the point where I'm I'm physically. telepathically talking to aliens right. now, that that's where I'm like, well, how do you prove that? And and I can't, you know, this is comes down to campfire.

stories. And and that's one of the. things I always try to avoid. >> Physicists don't like unfalsifiable. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yep. It's not proper. falsifiable. So, what do you do? So, um. she says, "Yeah, they they said you were. young. I'm going to guess 15, 16 is what. I'm seeing in the images. and you were. in the desert and they took you and uh. you didn't remember it. I said, "Lady, I've never I live in Alabama. Everything's green as far as I can see.". And u I and so I didn't think anything. else further about it. And then we sent.

a team to um a place in Arizona called. Secret Mountain. Um and and there's uh. some natives there kept saying that they. had seen um EUOs flying into the. mountain pretty much like at Skinwalker. Ranch. >> and Shasta. >> and and and and they go there and uh and. they and I'm looking at what some of the. footage that they're showing some of the. film video uh and and and I'm saying. that looks familiar to me. Where where. where is this? Where did you where did. you guys stay? And they say we stayed in.

a little town. There's one little town. there. It's called Hullbrook, Arizona. And I went Hullbrook, Arizona when I was. 16. >> No way. >> My brother was in the Air Force and was. stationed in Hullbrook, Arizona. And I. went and stayed two weeks uh in Arizona. with my brother and his his apartment. He he stayed, if you want to call it. that, was like a little quadplex that. four four town homes of one that were. all Air Force guys living in up on top. of a big sand dune effectively. And the.

and the base was two trailers and two. radars and a chain link fence and and. there was like I think a high school and. that was it. There may have been a. 7-Eleven or something there. And uh and. I stayed there for two weeks and all I. did was uh either go and play when they. did PT they played softball every day. I. would go play softball with them, hang. out with my brother. Otherwise, I'd sit. and watch TV during the day or read. books. And and that's the only time I'd. ever been to a desert before I went to. to Utah. But I was 16 when I went there. >> Just like she said. Just like the lady.

said and and when the fact that those. stories came to me at the almost within. a week of each other that close. >> Yes. And and all and all this it was. it's one of those things that shakes you. and you're like I don't believe it. But. at the same time I'm like. >> how could she guess that? >> Yeah. How would how would she guess. that? That's the thing. And cuz I hadn't. thought about that in I just wiped it. out of my mind about even I didn't. really thought about it much. >> And you don't remember anything. happening? >> I don't of course no I don't I don't. remember anything. I don't mean being at. the ranch now. Weird crap happens all.

the time, but I I have crazy I had night. terrors for the first three years I was. there. Never slept at all. >> at the ranch. >> Yeah, at the ranch. >> Uh it was it was terrible. So, I'd wake. up screaming. It was it was it was it. was wild. Uh but I think my brain got. numb to it after 3 or four years. And I. I still have them occasionally when. there, but mostly I've gotten to where I. can kind of sleep there. So, it's it's. it's unusual. I think it has to do with. the microwaves that we keep measuring. I. think it's messing up my rim sleep. But.

um. >> Well, you said that you hooked up EEGs. to some folks and saw some weird. activity in the brain, right? >> Yes, we've done that many times. U uh. and in fact uh we've seen uh what is. typical fight orflight response is. happening. That's obvious when you see. it, but we've seen um other types of. influences on the brain waves that you. would be like in a sensory deprivation. tank instead when you're not. And so I. find that really interesting and I. wonder about that because we've had. people it's as close as you and I where. somebody's pointing at something and.

saying it's right there don't you see it. and others are like man we're not seeing. it or we've had somebody I was literally. sitting at a table about just a little. bigger than this there's about six or. eight of us around the table and a guy. sitting between me and one of the other. guys just collapsed into seizures and we. took him to the emergency room and he. had looked like he they say looked like. he'd been exposed to microwaves. >> and he did and he his memory was. basically wiped of about 4 hours of the. day and he had like his eye swelled up. and it was like bloodshot. We've had. that happen to cows.

>> Well, what happened to your finger? >> Yeah. So, um that that happened right. after uh. it's funny. I'd always uh told the guys. the first few weeks I was out there that. I thought they were all batshit crazy. >> Mhm. >> And u. >> Oops. >> We were we were at Homestead, too. And. um we're looking around. We got a ground. p. I got a guy pushing one of those lawn. mower looking ground penetrating radars. around and the one scientist is over. there with him and I'm over behind. homestead 2. There's this uh sistern.

behind us. So basically a water tank. that they used to make, you know, in the. houses. And so u I'm like, well, there. could be radon gas or something down in. there. I want to check it. I'm going to. pull this lid back and and hold my my. gamay detector down there. And um so I I. pulled on the thing. It was pretty. heavy. And the camera guy was standing. like right over me looking down as I was. holding my gamay detector over the hole. And I was sitting in such a way like one. knee on the ground and one hand on one. knee. And um suddenly my gamay detector.

goes off. Nobody there's all there's. people around me. But and as soon as my. gamay detector went off all the cameras. and all the sound equipment and all the. cell phones turn themselves off. Now, one Android phone was of all the. crew was working and the director of. photography was sharp enough he grabbed. it, started filming with that and told. everybody else to be working on the dang. cameras. >> So, so they went down and wouldn't come. back up. >> Would not come back up. Like something.

fried them. Like they burn out all the. all the batteries immediately went dead. And u um so uh they're changing. batteries, swapping out units, the. little doohickeys that have the. transmitters on there. They're changing. all those things out. and uh and and. frantic, you know, trying to get the. cameras up and running and while the. director of photography is filming with. the uh uh the one android that was. working and uh and so I'm sitting here. looking at my gamray detector and the. dose dose rate is pretty high and I'm. doing numbers in my head and I'm and I'm.

thinking it's like that it's like that. scene in Fat Boy, Fat Man and Little Boy. where uh John Kuzzac's character is. calculating that he's about to die. That's what I'm doing in my head. I'm. going and one of the other physicists. coming over says he looks at it and says. that's a pretty big dose man. >> that's a big dose. >> and I'm like that's that's a bigger dose. than u than it ain't going to kill me. but it ain't a good dose. So so I I need. to uh then they got about this time. So. >> how about how many x-rays worth of. >> Well, I'll get to that. I'll get that. >> Okay.

>> So I'm we're sitting here on they. they've got cameras on tailgate of the. truck. They're they're trying to figure. them out and they get one working. The. camera guys got one up finally. And uh. so the director starts asking me. questions. Said, "What's going on? What. what's happening?" I said, "Well, here's. what we're going to do. I want you to. get everybody here and get them back to. the command center. I'm going to go I'm. going to take all my clothes off outside. my trailer and uh then I'm going to take. a shower and while I'm doing that, I. want you to get someone and go to the. beer store and come back with a case of. beer." And they started laughing and I. said, "No, I'm serious. I got to start.

urinating as soon as possible. This is. standard. A buddy of mine was a was a. subdude. Actually, his his handle is. subdude. >> and uh he he told we've talked about I. I've written a bunch of science fiction. stories where people got exposed or. whatever. And we've I've walked through. what the protocol is that the Navy uses. on the subs. >> Yep. >> And that's the first thing they have. them do is sit down and start drinking. diuretics, right? And I'm like, well, you know, they could go to the pharmacy. and get a diuretic, but what fun is. that, >> right? [laughter]. Coors Light. >> Yeah. So, I had to go get me a case of. Coors Light. And I said, "So, I'm going.

to set out and I'm I'm then I'm going to. start drinking that because I've got to. start, you know, peeing as soon as. possible." And they said, "Well, what. about iodine?" So, it's too late for. that. I' already been exposed. I needed. that beforehand. >> And um so, [clears throat]. and they're like, "You're being you're. being serious now." I said, "Yes, I'm. being serious." Uh and so we go back and. the guy, one of the other physicists. that was there that year, he also had a. medical physics degree and he ran uh. chemotherapy and and radiation therapy. treatments at a hospital. And he and I. are sitting there doing numbers and I've. got my doctor, my my general.

practitioner on my phone texting him and. he's texting an oncologist and we're all. doing math in over the phone in our. heads and everything and he says, "Dude, you just had your lifetime of CAT scans. in about 30 seconds." And uh and and it. wasn't and and my what's really weird is. everybody around me, none of them there. no dose rate went no gamma detectors. went off, just mine. And they were as. close. One of guy was as close as me and. you are now. >> Was it from the hole?

>> Don't know where don't know where it. came from, but but going back that we. had a a Navy team come in the next day, a contractor come in the next day and. check and there was nothing anywhere. >> And um so. after overnight, I drink all the beer. I. get up next morning and when I urinate, it's the color of this laptop right. here. It's like it's like it's like. black coffee. >> Oh no. And uh I text my uh uh my GP. again and he says uh that's probably. dead cells that you're that you're. passing. >> You didn't tell your wife any of this.

>> Oh no. No. [laughter] Uh and then uh so. then I started getting flu-l like. symptoms. >> Oh no. >> Which is all classic symptoms, right? >> And that lasted for a good 36 hours. >> And I was like, well, I'm going to go. home and spend the weekend at home and. try to recuperate and see how I feel. And um I I get to Salt Lake City airport. and I'm sitting there and I order a a. beer and some chicken wings at um at. whatever restaurant was. And the waiter. looks at me, says, "Did you get in a.

fight or?" And I said, "What are you. talking about?" And he said, "What's. what's that on your head?" I'm like, "What's on my head?" [laughter]. And and and I noticed and I got to think. about I'd been scratching my knee and my. top of my foot was burning. And then I. looked at my hand and there was a burn. mark on my hand right here. And so I I. get my phone, I turn around, look, and I. had a big burn mark right here. And so. the way I was sitting looking over there. that you could draw a straight line. through my head, through my hand, through my knee, and through my foot. >> to where those burn marks were. And uh.

and when I drew the line upwards, it. would have gone right through the camera. guy that was looking over my shoulder. >> This is like a death ray. >> That's that don't exist. >> That does not exist. [laughter]. >> So um I uh I I I got better, you I got. everything was fine and I had uh various. tests done to make sure there's not any. like leukemia markers or anything, you. know. >> Was it a radiation burn? >> Uh well, according to two different. doctors, it it appeared to be effects of. radiation exposure. Uh one other doctor.

said he didn't know what the hell it. was. Uh and then when uh my finger. started hurting, uh it's g started. expanding like this, growing outward. And I'm like, what in the crap is that? I'm too old for arthrit I mean too young. for arthritis and I don't know what's. going on and u uh so I called Kit Green. and um he said yeah that sounds like. classical radiation exposure here's what. I want you to do hooked me up with an. orthopedist a surgeon they went in.

x-rayed it and everything and they set. me up for surgery and so they opened. that up and and and and there was there. were two osteoes there like basically. bone growth growing out and from the. x-ray I could calculate their sizes And. they were the exact right size to be. microwave uh antennas. Is that not. crazy? >> That's crazy. >> That is crazy. Well, they shaved them. off and then sewed me back up and they. sent the pieces off for analysis. There. was no trace of any pathogen.

uh at all. No pathogen. And uh so Kit. said that's typical of radiation. exposure. So that that there not a virus. or arthritis or any anything else that. could cause that. No bacterial. infection. And if it's and it comes back. pathogen clear, then it's most likely. that it was radiation exposure. And so. that was that fun adventure. Um and and. what it was, who knows? I I I don't. know. But but so when I came out of the.

going back to when I walked back out of. the the from behind there and was. sitting on that tailgate, my friend. Dragon and the other guys come down and. they looked at me said, "What's going. on, dude?" And I looked at him and said, "Well, I guess I'm finally batshit. crazy." And that's when I really that. day I really started understanding that. this was not made up stuff. It something. to this property. >> And but you keep going back. >> Well, so there's a reason I keep going. back. Uh I hope to someday dig out of. the ranch a green lantern ring.

[laughter]. But seriously, what if uh there's. something there? What if, you know, I I. firmly believe that fortune favors the. bold and and and the fortune might be to. learn something that we don't know. And. uh I've already learned a lot of things, made myself get so much better at at. physics and engineering just from being. out there. >> Sure. Uh but um what if we pull. something out of the mesa that is, you. know, not of this world or or maybe it's.

an ancient artifact from an ancient. civilization or who knows what. But what. if there's something there? What if it's. even some new uh mother nature phenomena. that we that we've never seen before? Either way, it would be worth it. It's. it's worth uncovering whatever that is. >> I'm glad you're out there. I wouldn't. go. So you and Jay are in a band called. Hitchhiker. >> Oh, yeah. Hitchhiker effect. >> Have you experienced the hitchhiker. effect? >> Yes, I have. Uh, and I have have. documentation of it. Jay Jay has. experienced it a lot, but his is a lot. worse than mine. But um,

>> what happened? >> I'll let him talk about that. I don't. for me. So, the really weird thing, and. it's pretty uh, g. It's funny. I had. some debunkers try to uh, I don't know. This is part I think why they think I. believe in paranormal, but I'm not. saying nothing anything's paranormal. So, uh, we have, uh, laying hens, chickens, at my house. I've got, you. know, 17 acres in Alabama. It's a in the. middle of the wilderness. It's, it's, you know, green Alabama, the beautiful, right? >> Mhm. >> And, uh, so, uh, at the time I had a u a.

coupe that I had rigged an automatic. door with a computer to run it. It had a. sensor on it that, uh, 30 minutes uh, after sun up uh, it would open. And uh. 30 minutes after sundown, it would close. to keep, you know, raccoons and foxes. out of the out of the hen house. And. uh it ran on basically like a little. Arduino board. I'm sure there's people. out makers out there know exactly what. I'm talking about. >> And it had an actuator uh that would.

just open and close just a little metal. aluminum plate door. And it had an. electrical eye that went across the. door. So if there was a chicken standing. in it, it would shut it off. Right. And. the door actually went like. it it literally takes a minute for the. thing to close. Right. >> Right. So there's no way something's. going to stand there and you know get. caught in it. >> So I'm at work and my wife calls me and. says um uh hey there's a hen that's. caught in the door. Uh could you come.

home and say she she didn't want to deal. with it, you know. >> So I I went home and it there basically. had guillotined this poor chicken and. I'm like how in the hell could that. happen? chair was dead. >> It was It was cut in half. >> Cut in half. >> Yeah. I I uh It's It's so weird of a. nitpick. I said I said something like. this at a at a con. It was cut in half. One of the idiot, you know, Twitter. verse people, you know, say, "Well, well, he's lying about that because it. didn't uh you can look at clearly look. at the picture and it head's still. there." Well, the guillotine is clo, the.

door's closed, the head's hanging on. this side and the other part of the. body's on the other side. I mean, that's. how toxic though the the people are out. there about this stuff, right? keyboard warriors. We don't. >> I know, right? Keyboard. Exactly. Right. They got Cheeto stains on their fingers. And so anyway, uh. >> but did that motor have enough torque to. do that? >> Uh it had enough torque it. So it could. have. >> it could have, but the chicken would. have to stay there, [laughter]. >> right? It's not going to stay there. So, um, so I get the board and I look at.

it, uh, and it's it's got all the data. recorded and it happened at, u exactly, um, it was it was. 2 it was 1:33. Alabama time, right? If I remember the. time, I could have it could could be. remembering, but it was around that, right? And um um and so I look at what. happened and it looked like uh something. overloaded the battery. It got like. supercharged and uh then the the eye was.

triggered for safety and it didn't shut. off the thing and it burned out the main. computer drive. And so it's like. something emped the chicken house. [snorts] and and and convinced the. chicken at 1 uh 33 in the morning. >> when it's supposed to be closed. Well, when it's supposed to be closed, right? So, it opened it, then closed it. Right. But again, if you ever if you've ever. had chickens, once they get on a roost, they don't move. There could be a snake.

killing them. >> They're going to sit there until the sun. comes up. >> Mhm. >> So, something made this chicken get up. in the middle of the night and go let. the door open, go stand in the doorway, and then let the doorway kill it. >> Don't eat that chicken. >> Yeah. What's [laughter]. Well, I Well, yeah, I didn't, but uh so. I'm like I So I called the uh Eric Bard, the principal investigator at the ranch, and I said, "Eric, did anything happen. last night at the ranch?" He said, "I. don't know, man. I was I was off with a. on a date with my wife, and I was.

driving back from Vernal, which is like. 40 minute 30-minute drive or something. to the ranch." Uh, I was driving back. and that that damn Jeep that we have out. there, it just it just everything on the. dashboard lit up and every instrument in. it blew up and I was stranded on the. side of the road. >> What time? >> And I that's exactly what the next. question was. And he said and he said it. was uh 12:30 something. >> Oh no. >> And there on mountain time, which is. exactly the same time. So there were. simultaneous events that happened that. fried electromagnetic EMP type effect.

that fried his Jeep and fried my chicken. coupe. And I noticed that the Wi-Fi in. the house had also reset itself at that. time. >> It did. >> Yeah. Uh when I went back and looked. through the logs. So there was an EMP. >> So that's type effect. >> That's two and five meghertz. >> Yeah. That's right. And and so but and. powerful enough that it that it blew out. my Arduino board. Right. and and and. cause and and messed with a chicken. I. [laughter] don't know what what did it. do to the chicken? I don't understand.

that one at all. >> So, that is one of the strangest. weirdest things that happened. I can't. explain it. Uh I'd had chickens for. before that and after that never seen. anything like that. Uh I've had other. events very similar uh like that that. things just keep blowing up uh uh like. that like they're being fried or. whatever. So, I've safeguarded. everything. I I hope knock on wood. Now. that I've said it, it'll probably happen. as soon as I get home. It'll happen. Um, but that kind of stuff happens a lot.

>> Do you think that it doesn't want you. there or is it just mischief? >> You know, the um the previous owners of. the property, the farmers that lived. there said they believe it was some kind. of trickster. >> Yeah. >> Right. Uh to what end? Yeah. You know, but I've always said that we may never. understand alien motivations because. it's just that alien. Mhm. >> And we may never we might be invaded and. never know why. Right. And uh whatever's. going on here could have some motivation.

that doesn't make any sense to us. >> That's true. >> It could be AI motivation. We may never. understand what AI's motivation is. Right. >> Uh heck, I I've got a teenager. I don't. know what his motivations are. Right. So, it's it's one of those things that. um but why, right? And that's one of the. reasons that I keep going back is uh I. do fear that could I be bringing it back. with me? Uh a lot of people have had. some detrimental things that have been. there and they'll never get anywhere. near the place again.

>> Well, Colonel Alexander said his wife. was not pleased. >> Yeah. There we Well, we had one guy, like I said, that he he told us flat out. uh and he was actually one of the Nitz. Group guys that we had to visit us. >> Yeah. And uh he came out and he was. affected so much that uh he told us he. would never ever come back again. >> Did he say what happened to him? >> We watched it. We we got it on. He. started having seizures on the ground. >> Oh my god. >> We we went and put him in a Faraday cage. and it helped a little bit, but we. eventually evacuated him and sent him to. emergency room.

>> It's not funny. >> No, it's not. This Well, it's it's one. of it's it's not funny. Haha. It's. funny. Yeah. It's it's it's unbelievable. is what it is. That's why I tell you, uh, that's why I think people I can. understand people think we're making it. up because it's bizarre. >> I haven't watched the show because I. thought y'all were making it up. >> Yeah, we're not. There's not a single. thing that we're making. Everything is. as we're seeing it. Now, like I said, we. may get some things wrong and we always. come back say, "Oh, well, we thought. this was something, but it was just a.

bug or it was a, you know, snow snow. goose or whatever." But, uh, uh, we we. always are honest about those things. And and that's the the thing that I. want, you know, to make clear is if we. find something, this is disclosure, man. Unless somebody comes and shuts us down. in a way that we can't get it out, it's. getting out. >> How far back does the weird stuff go? >> Well, the one uh so every owner that's. been there has said something about it. You know, there and like I said, there's. a petroglyph on the property that's a. thousand years old.

>> Yeah. >> That's a warning that evil is beyond. this thing. And they even show a portal. in the sky. >> They do. Yeah. [laughter]. >> No, that's where your balloon went. >> Maybe that's Well, exactly where they. draw it. So, there's a drawing of the. mesa and then there's the star patterns. and exactly where this little spot is is. right where the balloon disappeared. >> That's interesting that you bring that. up. That's that's a good good analysis. >> Where did the uh the remote viewer Did. she give you any more details when you. were 16? Where you went? What you saw? What happened?

>> Uh she said that they uh just just took. me and tried to show me something, but I. didn't. I I I wouldn't remember it. >> And you still won't. >> And I still won't apparently cuz I. don't. >> What? Do you believe her? >> No. Okay. I I I I don't know what to. think about. Why would Why would Why is. whatever it is that she can do trigger. her brain to to see something. fantastical, you know, that like that's. that like that, right? Um,

I mean I I would understand if if it was. just someone that was trying to get like. publicity like a spoon bending hustster. or something. >> Yeah. >> Um, and I don't mean all spoon benders. or husters. I just mean like some, you. know, a rain uh a rain conman, you know, a rain maker. U. >> a stubble binder. >> Snake snake oil salesman, right? >> Yeah. >> Uh, but she's not that cuz she's not. getting paid for that. She she finds. like um kidnapped children and things. like that and works with police.

>> She's also seeing through time. >> Well, yeah. And that's she's she's. seeing that that she's saying that they. were showing her this and u and that and. that they were telling her where to go. to get to send the team to get a UFO and. all these kinds of things. Uh we thought. we had one at one point, but they kept. giving us, oh well, the rebels there. won't let us in the property or they. they need a million dollars before. they'll do or whatever. And we're like, yeah, that sounds right. Uh they sent us. video and it looked like uh they'd built.

some kind of prop, you know, it was one. of those things. So we've I've never had. anything like that pan out, right? >> Uh but now the remote viewing part. >> Yeah. You said you could explain the. mechanism. Well, I have a hypothesis. The uh think about it like uh. for those who aren't familiar with. remote viewing, it's been used. officially since the 70s in the Stargate. program. Howal put off and Russell Tar. and those guys did a detailed scientific.

evaluation of it and showed that it was. statistically better than guessing. >> Pat Price was a miracle. Pat Price was. apparently the Him and uh uh Joe. McMonigle were and Swan were the they. were the best, right? And and McMmonle. still says stuff to Jay. Jay talks to. him, you know. >> Um but. but how how would something like that. work? Well, if you look at how they do. it, so we had Paul Smith, we've had.

remote viewers come out to the property. and do they've told us some fantastic. amazing things and we've discovered we. found exactly what they said right where. they said it was going to be or what. whatever. >> Uh well, >> so let me give you one example since I. can't spoil it. >> Okay. >> Um uh and but the thing about I was. about to say though is that the network. doesn't believe that the public believes. it. So they won't let us they don't want. us to air it. >> Why? They don't believe in remote. viewing. The network for some reason. doesn't doesn't like remote viewing, I. don't think. Um, okay. >> Which but to me it's.

>> CIA didn't mind it. >> That's what I thought. That's why I keep. telling them. They said, "Well, and and. they they also don't I don't think they. I don't think they grasp it or get it or. something, you know." And I I've tried. to explain it, but it is a hard concept. for a lot of people to accept because it. seems like magic. >> Mhm. >> Well, the way it works, so we thought. we're going to trip Paul Smith up. Uh uh. we took the date that I was exposed to. radiation and wrote it down and put it. in an envelope, put a serial number on. that envelope, put the envelope in a. drawer, and then told Paul the serial.

number. Then he took that serial number. and gave it through a friend without. telling him where it came from to two of. his students that he said were his prize. students. Different different states, you know, one I think was New York, one. was out Midwest somewhere. And they they. both came back with drawings and Paul. did a drawing himself. And in and the drawing that they drew. uh was a Fineman diagram for pair. production of an electron positron.

collision. >> What? >> I kid you not. All right. So you say, "Well, what does that mean?" Well, so. after I was exposed to radiation, we had. this Navy contractor team come out and. they put a radiation spectrum analyzer. in that exact spot where I was exposed. to radiation. They found the spectrum of. the radiation I was exposed to. And. there was a peak uh that occurred over a. week. The most number of hits they got. was at 511 keV. 511 KV is the uh gamma.

ray that is created when an electron. anti-electron or posetron collide with. each other and they create uh 511 kev. gamma rays. >> That's what they found. That's the. annihilation number. >> That's the annihilation number. found. that. >> that's that's what they found there. behind why where did they where did they. where did the apostron electron come. from right. >> and where did why have we got. paranihilation. uh gamma rays you know so what I'm. talking about here is you know how in.

Star Trek they used a matter antimatter. chamber to create the warp energy well. we got a matter antimatter collision. happening on the property at Skinwalker. Ranch for no dang reason well but these. remote viewers drew the date that we. told them and the and the GPS. coordinates and all they saw was a. serial number. They didn't know anything. where it came from. They didn't know. anybody, but they drew the Fineman. diagram for electron positron collision. and the gamma rays. >> There's no way they knew about. antimatter. There's no way.

>> No way. No. Well, one of them I asked. him, one of them was an art major or. something and one of them was one of. them was like a a data processor or. something, but they were taking, you. know, remote viewing school from Paul. >> When you saw that diagram, did you know. what it was? Soon as I saw it, I said I. looked at said, "That's a Fineman. diagram." [laughter] And then the other. physicist looked at said, he turned it. around, "You're right. That is a Fineman. diagram." And we're like, "What the. hell?" And when I saw that, I was like, I you're not you're not going to. convince me anymore that remote viewing.

is is is made up this magic or whatever. It's it's it's a real phenomenon. Now, what is it and how does it work? Well, what did he do? He took we took um a. piece of data and we gave it an address. and and it and it stored away on the. memory stack somewhere. >> Mhm. >> And then we gave the memory stack. location to these people and all they. did was they know how to look at the.

memory stack and read what's what's. stored there. That's a great way to. describe it. >> And that is another piece of. uh simulation hypothesis or or or some. sort of uh mechanism that the universe. has created through software or or a. matrix-like environment that would. suggest that these people have. understood they now understand how to. read certain locations in the memory. stack. >> I hadn't considered that, but that makes.

a lot of sense. They can see the code. Yeah, >> they can access the the memory. >> and you know where and I also that that. also explains quantum entanglement. Um. quantum entanglement is nothing more. than the inventory. So think about Minecraft Steve, right? He mines a diamond over here at uh. position XYZ and T time one. He picks. the diamond up. He plops it into his. inventory. It's up there in some. location and that you can pick up the. inventory. It's in this block right. here. Yep. Right. Then he walks around.

the world map and goes to some other. position and time and he reaches up into. his inventory and magically plops it. down and there it is. Where did that. where was it all that time? You say, "What was in his inventory?" What is his. inventory? It's the memory. It's the. memory. >> And what I just explained to you is how. quantum teleport how teleportation. works. Quantum teleportation. If you. draw a diagram for how Minecraft Steve. moves items with his inventory, it looks. exactly like quantum teleportation, moving information from point A to point.

B. >> Doesn't it move it instantly? >> It it moves it non-locally. You still have to send a a classical. signal to tell them how to make the. measurements and things. >> Uh and and where is the non That's the. big thing is nobody understands where. the non-local place is. >> No, >> it's the memory stack, >> right? It's everywhere. It's everywhere. It's the aosic record. >> That's right. >> Where is that stored? >> It's everywhere. >> Yeah. >> It's like the the morphic field, morphic. resonance, >> right? It's so whatever the holographic.

universe that we living in is that. information, the information universe, whatever it is, that information is. stored everywhere somewhere somehow. And. uh so these people that have they didn't. find a back door. They just understood. how to read what's there. Doesn't that make the secret work as. well? And. >> absolutely. I think it's all the same. thing. I think they're all. manifestations of the same concept. >> Monroe Institute. >> Yep. All of it. >> All of it. >> Makes sense to me, too.

>> Um, let's talk about J J Stratton for a. second. He's got a book coming out. >> Yeah. >> And he recently said that about. disclosure, like, it's already happened, but there's a lot more coming. >> Do you know what he means? >> Well, uh, well, Jay and I talk all the. time. I mean, we were in a band. together, right? good guitar player. >> Yeah, he's a good guitar player. Jay's. Jay's Jay's pretty Jay is awesome, man. He's He's an amazing person. >> And you sing? >> Yeah, I I play I play on u some of the. songs. Uh I write some of the songs, but. uh um I am I'm the lead vocalist.

>> All right. So, that's Hitchhiker on. Spotify this week, right? >> Yeah. Yeah, man. Spotify. It's. Hitchhiker Effect. So, >> hitchhiker Effect. Okay. Um, so, um, yeah, Jay was, so for people who don't. know who Jay Stratton is, Jay Stratton. was the director of the UAP task force. But before that, uh, he and Jim Latsky, Dr. Lacsky, were the two, uh, people. working for DIA, the Defense. Intelligence Agency at the time. uh and they had noticed a bunch of.

people reporting weird things uh pilots. and so on and they thought somebody. should be looking into this and no I. don't think anybody is and so they. started um investigating. and they came up with the idea to create. the um uh create which is like advanced. weapons something systems program I. don't know what all it stands for um and. that was actually a contract. It was a. proposal and they let out a call for.

proposals that any contractors could bid. on that had that could get security. clearances uh to to bid on to. investigate what what they were calling. range fowlers at the time. A range. fowler would be they had a test range. They were flying doing exper like top. gun kind of stuff. Y. >> and pilots would see something that. shouldn't be there so it's not safe. >> So they needed to find out what they. were. Was it enemy drones? You know, what was it? and uh and Bigalow Airspace. was the only company. that that that bid on the proposal. Now,

let me if you've been in if if you've. been in the defense intelligence. industry at all, you know that any. opportunity that someone in the. government releases to give you money, there are 30 companies that go after it. >> Yep. >> So, why did nobody respond to this. except for Big Low Aerospace? >> And I was endorsed by Harry Reid at the. time. >> Yeah. Yeah. Harry and so what happened. um Latsky and Jay went to um um Harry.

Reid and um Annoy and there was one. other uh senator that was he was a. Republican um I can't remember his name. but there were three of them they so. somehow they they briefed them and they. were like well we could put in a a plus. up on the next bill to get you some seed. money to get started on this and then uh. you guys can go through the standard. channels to start a program Right. And. that's there's nothing odd about that. I'm telling you that's how everything. works in government programs. >> Yep. >> Every time every I mean it's unusual if.

it happens a different way. And uh so. they are set they're getting going and. um Bigalow had an interest already in um. Skinwalker Ranch. He he had already. bought the place and it had been funding. the NIDS guys uh was it National. Institute for Discovery Science or. something like that to go out that was. Eric Eric Davis and Halputo off to to go. out there and Keller. Yep. >> To investigate for whatever the weird. stuff was. And I think Bigalow was more. interested in the in the what you would.

call paranormal things, supernatural or. whatever. I think because there was uh. there was a death or something in his. family that he he was really affected by. and he was wanting to maybe try to do an. reach out to the afterlife or something. >> He's into a lot of near-death experience. and after death experience. >> Yeah. So, I think that was what was. driving him more. >> Yes. But something had happened. uh on Skinwalker Ranch that led Bigalow. to tell Cat Latsky and and Jay Stratton.

that if you want to see a nuts andbolt. spacecraft UFO, you need to go to. Skinwalker Ranch. And Jay tells that. story like I mean almost word for word. like that that that Bigalow told them if. you want to see a UFO you got to go to. Skinwalker Ranch. And so Jay said okay. So him and Lesky, you know, packed up. and went Skinwalker Ranch. And it was. Jay said it was like the the first week. he was there, he saw what he calls a. dart, uh, triangular shaped craft that.

flew over the property, I think. Uh, but. but but worse, they had an event happen. and what we now call Jay's tree. Uh, which is, it turns out is right. I mean, we put we put post out to mark where the. terrestrial laser scanner said this. bubble phenomenon is. And Jay's tree is. right by where we put post number five. And so, uh, they they were walking and. as they got closer and closer to this. tree, all of them were were overcome. with fear and couldn't walk any further.

and turned around and left and and it's. right at that. I mean, it's literally. right where the terrestrial laser. scanner tells us this the edge of this. bubble is. >> Is it a hard edge or is it kind of fade. off? Well, so what uh the drones told us. this year in an experiment was that it's. potentially at least to 5 gigahertz 120. foot thick. Uh. >> wow. >> Uh I know, right? And you can hear it on. AM if you tune your car to a station. because it go cuts right across the. driveway as you come in. Uh you can hear. it as you drive the car through the.

radio crackle. >> Oh my goodness. And it could be placebo. effect, but I uh the distance from my. trailer to the gate is and back is a. onem run. And I'll often do a onem run. in the morning or whatever and and I run. right through the bubble out and then. back. And u um and I I swear I feel. sinus pressure every time when I go. through there. But it could be purely. placebo, right? I'm too front-loaded to. to believe myself on that one or to. trust that measurement. Uh so anyway, uh.

Jay and um Latsky. uh continued with the OSAP program until. such time as uh someone in the Pentagon. uh thought they were looking for. ugabooga stuff at Skinwalker Ranch and. went and had the program funds killed. Didn't have the program killed. They. just pulled the funds, which kills a. program. Yeah, that's how you do it. Uh, and even though Harry Reid and Harry. Reid couldn't fight it apparently, you. know, u uh, but and and that's why I'm.

convinced if Biglo had more, I wouldn't. have given it to the government either. because they paid him half of what they. told him he was going to pay him. I'd. been given the government the finger. basically, right? >> U, so, but I don't believe that he's got. something squirrel he's got a UFO. squirreled away. And when he talked when. we've talked to him, he said, "No, I. never we never dug up a UFO. We never. saw anything like that." You know, >> I don't think he does. No, I'm I'm. convinced he I I'm convinced that he. doesn't. And I believe that he and Jay. have such a rapport that he would have. told Jay that if he did and and now they.

did have a lot of sightings and uh we do. have uh he did give us that data of like. dates and times and and you descriptions. of the experiences and so on. >> and nuts and bolt sightings. >> Uh well, they were things in the sky, you know, nothing landed and came out. and said, "Take me to your leader.". >> But not an orb. >> I think they were mostly like orblike. Yeah, >> it's interesting that uh you said annoy. because remember his famous speech about. there is a cabal with its own air force, its own military that answers to no law.

Is that is he talking about like the. Collins group? >> I wonder I' I've I've thought that too. that I and so where is this air force? Where is this where are these people and. how are they hiding it in plain sight. from us? >> Right? It's to me that's fascinating, but it sounds a lot like. like a legacy program that that's not. being brought into the open. >> Why did Ronald Reagan talk about a space. force that there's 3,000 people. on craft? Remember that weird slip?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and what you what what. is all the stuff that's in the U was it. the uh Snowden uh leaks and the. Wikileaks and all that different stuff. and the Gary the British guy Gary uh. Gary. >> McKinnon. Yeah. Him. He the files he. found. >> Yes. >> Right. What is all that? Right. You know. it's got names of ships and manifests. and all that. >> Yeah. Officers. >> and and they weren't Navy ships that. existed. So what were they? >> You know, I love the story, but it's.

just how do you launch stuff without. anybody knowing? How do you keep that. kind of secret? It seems like impossible. to me. >> Well, is it if if we launched a rocket. right now out of Vandenberg? >> Yeah. >> What would you think about it? >> Satellite going. >> another satellite going up. >> Yeah. >> If we launched something out of the Cape. or out of out at Texas at the new. spaceports out there, that's Elon doing. something else, right? Nobody's going to. think anything about it. And for years. they were launching top secret. satellites on you know Titans and stuff.

out of Vandenberg and up out of Kodiak. and wherever else. So uh you why we. never thought anything about it. Who. knows what they put up? >> Could there be a shipyard up there? >> I think I think now you couldn't hide it. as easily because there's enough. commercial uh radars and all that. And. just like with the whole moon thing, >> Elon's going whether we want him to or. not. >> Yeah. So, he's going to know if he don't. already, right? Uh, and I and I think uh. that's that that's one of the things.

that we'll we'll find out very soon. I. think disclosure has to happen simply. because they they can't keep up with the. technology progression, whoever they. are. Uh, you know, sooner or later, regular civilians are going to be able. to go and hike on the moon. >> Yeah, that's coming soon. That's. probably in our lifetime. >> That I think that is in our lifetimes. Uh, so I'm uh I'm I'm really hopeful. that uh we'll get to the bottom of some. of these things, you know, and then. Hecklefish will be able to go and and. see that there that Apollo 11 did.

actually happen and there there are. remnants of us landing on the moon and. we walked on the moon in 1969 and and. early '7s. >> You don't like that conspiracy theory? >> Well, my dad was part of building the. thing. That's right. Yeah. Uh and and. I've been part of experiments where we. bounced lasers off of systems that they. left there on the moon. So. >> you can see the tracks. >> Yeah. I there's something there. I mean, >> do you think there's something weird on. the other side? >> Uh. >> do you believe Carl Wolf's story and all.

that? >> Well, I don't know what to think about. that. I've heard the uh the airbrushed. photos things and I and you know I'm I'm. one of the guys who found uh one of the. the three lights in one of the Apollo 17. uh limb photos that uh was just released. from the government. I'm the guy who. found that uh. >> I didn't know that. >> And uh and and that we don't know what. that is. And I went to the limb in. Huntsville and crawled all around that. thing and looked at tried to figure out. if there's a way that this external. camera was seeing blue lights somehow on.

and and the the official debunking is oh. well the the actual film had holes in it. and when they scanned it blue lights. came through the holes and I'm like well. I looked at hundreds of canisters and if. that were the case all that all those. films would have like holes in it like. that and this was the only one. Uh, and. I had AI run it and it found three. others u in the uh in the photo. >> There are blue lights on the on the. moon. That's a fact. That's. >> Well, there was a triangle with three. blue light. It was a triangle. >> It was a black it was a black triangle. with with with perfect uh with with the.

apex lights. Typical from the stories. Right. >> Could you get a sense of how big it was? >> No way of knowing how far away it was. Right. >> Right. Cuz it's just one camera. >> I'm trying to match it to what you saw. over the ranch. >> Uh yeah. No way to tell. No way to tell. Right. But this is in the NASA archives. You anybody can go look for it and find. it. U I I I can even tell you what if. unless they've changed the archive, I. tell you exactly which canister it was. in. And we presented this to the White. House. We presented it to the the.

appropriate committees in Congress to. NASA. NASA said, "Yes, this is this is a. it's real our it is our image. It is. there. We don't know what that is. either." Then uh half the people in the. room immediately started trying to say. oh maybe it's meteorites in and you know. coming in and perfect I you know. triangle you know like and all this uh. and then the other half was like we we. need to look we don't know what that is. and uh so my thoughts are that if I I. what I was doing wasn't looking for UFOs. I was working on a project where my my.

second PhD was using craters on the moon. as dishes for large very large. communications antennas. That's fascinating. >> because a meteor crater is already. parabolic by physics. >> Sure. And the lunar regalith is 11%. reflective in the microwaves and uh and. then RF. And so I was calculating using. some of these 50 kilometer wide uh you. know craters as antennas. And so I was. looking for better uh pictures to see if.

I could figure out how smooth it was so. I could calculate the error that would. be put into the signal. And uh and while. I was looking for better pictures in the. Apollo and I looked at lunar recon. orbiter, all that stuff, I found this. one picture in there and I was like, "What is that? That's not supposed to be. there." And I call I sent it to Jay and. Jay looked I said, "What is that?" I. said, "I don't know." So I started doing. analysis on it and um and I did all. sorts of to make sure number one, it. wasn't an airbrushed image. It was a. real image. the the it did say this was.

a scan of a photo which what is what it. was because it was a 35 millimeter. camera on the outside of the limb and. then since uh NASA has taken all the. photos and and digitized them. >> was 17 Edgar Mitchell's mission. [clears throat]. >> it sounds like he. >> no that was that was Conrad and uh. Schmidt. >> that's right [clears throat]. >> so um uh but who knows or maybe I. haven't looked I only looked through. handfuls but if I found an anomaly in.

say a hundred out of a million. The odds. are there's a lot more anomalies in in. some of those. >> I bet there are. >> Yeah. >> Before we go, um you wanted to set the. you wanted to set me straight about how. and about some of the things I got. wrong. Ah, [laughter]. well, so I I just wanted to set set you. straight that um none of these guys uh. Jay How Eric Davis uh none of us none I.

mean of course we'd be telling you this. if we right but uh the avary. >> yeah none of none of the ones that. you're talking about in the aviary. except for maybe Kit because Kit often. tells me stuff that he says well I can't. tell you that And I'm like, "Well, why. can't you stay?" We said, "Well, because. they I can't." He's still worried about. uh whatever programs he worked on and. and it's not by nefarious reasons. It's. it's from don't want to go to prison. reasons, right? >> Uh but how Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. None none.

of none of the guys that. uh from that particular group have a. nefarious bone in their body. Uh most of. them are they're they're extremely. American patriotic but uh they also are. extremely want to get to the bottom of. whatever all this is. And I don't think. other than the threat of prison, right? Violating some some NDA they signed. Uh. they would be giving us false.

information. >> What's your take on Richard Dodie who. worked with Hal and Benowitz and all. that? The Condor the Falcon. Richard. Dod's been caught in so many. misdirection that uh I wouldn't trust. anything he says just because of that. because even if he was doing it under. orders, >> right? >> It's still you don't know if he's. telling you something that was under. orders to be a lie or not. >> You don't. >> And so that to me is u that's like. trying to study randomness to find more. randomness.

>> It's very frustrating. >> Yeah. So I I don't I that's just a. source that I don't I don't even. consider a source because of of that. purpose. Right. Because of that reason, um Lou, I don't Lou is um he has a. different approach to the history of of. uh OFAP and ATIP. Uh ATIP was never a. real program. ATIP was the name they. used in internally. And Jay often says. he wish he had never put the word threat. in there because it made people think it.

was an alien threat or something, but it. wasn't what he meant. He meant was it a. threat to our airspace? And you know, but. >> I've been hard on Lou. Have I been. unfair? >> No. Uh, yeah. I mean, everybody's We're. grown-ups, right? We're big boys, and if. you can't take it, you know, you should. go cry to your mama or something, right? Whatever. It's this is a toxic universe. >> It is. >> Uh, but um but so what Lou, I can tell. you what Lou did, but I but now it's. possible too that Lou was read into some. program I wasn't read into. And there's.

always a chance, and I don't have. anything bad to say about Lou, right? But what I what I'll tell you that I. know is Lou was um what he was doing. whatever his day job was and he had a. program that uh had a top secret uh SCI. caveat for it but the program wasn't. active and so there was nothing under. that clearance and Jay and Latsky after. OAP needed a place to park classified. things and they knew Lou and they called.

Lou and Lou said and they said hey Lou. could we use your caveat to park uh our. classified stuff in. we'll write rewrite. the class guide and so it'll fit to. yours and we'll we'll just mark it as. your classification and you you know. monitor the security for it and Lou and. they agreed to it and and to my. knowledge that was all that happened. with ATIP right and it wasn't like a big. program and and while there was no. official director so it gets kind of in.

nomenclature gets thrown around that Lou. was the director of this or that now Lou. was the owner of that top secret caveat. and I don't know I mean to my knowledge. there was anything other than like. videos and things put in it. Well, a big. problem with Lou is the Pentagon got. kind of ky and started kind of twisting. the narrative a little bit where they're. like, "No, he was never the director of. anything," which is true. >> And but Lou's like, >> they did the same thing with me. They. they said, "Well, he worked with he was.

never the chief official chief. scientist." And and Jay said never. official. Well, he introduced him to the. council of the White House as the chief. scientist of the UAP task force, >> but it wasn't on your business card. >> Whoa. That's another interesting point. So, uh, you know, Greenwald, uh, does. the Black Vault or whatever. John, >> so John, interestingly enough, John was. a producer writer on Rocket City. Rednecks. >> I didn't know that. >> So, I know John and uh, so I've reached. out to him a few times when he's gotten.

things wrong or whatever or Yeah, him. too. [laughter] Right. Uh, and so try to. get him straight. But anyway, um, so. John apparently did a foyer request for. any emails from me and Jay to each. other. And the government's response is there. are no emails between me and Jay. Me and. Jay emailed each other for years, right? Which is this is the most bizarre thing. to me. And some of them were like, "Hey, how's it going? It's cold up here today. I hate Maryland." You know, something. like that. Uh and and uh and why would.

they not at least release an one email. to show him just to let him back off or. whatever? But instead, all it does is. fuel a conspiracy thought, >> right? So they said, "We don't have. them." or did they pull that classific. class classification? >> They said they looked and didn't find. any. >> I hope he appealed that. >> He did and they basically so every he's. been after it since like 22 and they've. been responding to him constantly and. the f basically gave him a final don't. call us anymore response and he just. posted on uh X a few days ago. I saw it.

and I was like me and Jay were looking. at said well how did we couldn't believe. it. It was not that we care. I mean I. mean there's nothing in the emails he's. going to get other than just us talking. about uh we're going to meet and and we. if we talked about anything was on a. tanber or in a skiff. So I mean there's. not going to be anything in the emails. you could get. >> And you don't violate clearance by. saying yeah we did email. No you could. say that. >> Yeah. That's so weird. I I I I don't. understand. See those there are those. kinds of things. that make no sense.

>> This is why people get angry at a lot of. you guys. And it's not really your. fault. >> It's not my fault. I didn't tell him not. to do it. I mean, I'm sitting here right. now telling you I did email J Stratton. >> and and and there's nothing illegal. about that. There's nothing nothing to. be classified about that. I mean, I've. emailed you. >> Mhm. [laughter]. >> So, I mean, that is so just bizarre and. and so who is driving that and why? I. think it's just to stir the dad gum pot. It's like just like Richard Dodie just.

to get us fighting and distract us while. Lockheed and Rathon are doing their. thing or whatever is going on. >> I I think you might be right about that. and and uh it might be somebody like a. Richard Dodies in there that it's their. day job just to make thing look they're. playing the god the trickster god part, right? >> Yep. >> Is [snorts] there anything you want. folks to know before we say goodbye? Uh well, you know, uh we just finished, I think, uh the last couple episodes, Skinwalker Ranch season 7 are almost. done this year. Uh we are headed back.

out to do season 8. Uh and hopefully. even more crazy stuff will happen and. we'll catch it and you'll get to see it. Uh my uh I don't know, I've lost count. this time. 26th, 27th science fiction. novel just hit the bookstores. Oh, it. did. >> It's called Apogee. >> Okay. It is the sequel to a book called. Ballistic, which my publisher said was. the best book I ever wrote. So, we'll. see. Um, but, uh, I think you'd find it. interesting. There's a lot of simulation. hypothesis, a lot of the Minecraft.

Vishnu stuff in it that we've talked. about. >> I'll check it out. >> Um, >> hitchhiker effect is on Spotify. I was. just about to say and and so Jay. Stratton and I along with Micah Hanks. and Micah's brother uh Caleb Hanks uh. John Neberger, Jim Kellgard and Rob. Nelson, we have a band called the. Hitchhiker Effect and uh we play hard. rock uh a lot of like sort of a Guns and. Roses Metallica flare with a little bit. of a southern bit thrown in. You know, I'm I'm can't can't leave my Skard.

roots. But uh uh two singles are on. Spotify now. One's called The Tether and. one is called I Bet They Rock and Roll. and they're available. So, hope you. enjoy it. And we're going to be playing. live at Phenomicon in Vernal on uh. whenever Phenomicon is like second week. of of September. >> Okay, that's worth checking out. >> Yeah. So, come see us. But, uh more than. that, this has been a lot of fun. Uh, as. always, it's great to speak with someone. knowledgeable about all these things and. and and realize that you're not you're.

not an army of one and you're not by. yourself and other people have been. looking into it as well and everybody. else is just as frustrated and just as. interested as we are. And I and I will. tell you that u. we don't worry about someone coming to a. podium and telling you that disclosure. has happened, right? Disclosure is. happening right now around us all the. time. you watch Skinwalker Ranch, you'll. see we're disclosing whatever we can. find so that you can see it. >> Dr. Travis Taylor, this has been a joy.

I hope to that you come back and see us. >> anytime, man. >> Appreciate you. >> Yep. >> Bye, everybody. That was Dr. Travis. Taylor. He spent part of this. conversation angry at a reporter who. wrote the words his alleged education. So, let's start [music] there. He's got. two PhDs, three masters. He's working on. his third PhD in his 50s on theoretical. physics. So [music] that's all true. He'll also tell you the chief scientist. title was never official. And that's not. a thing a resume patter would volunteer. Now, the moon photo was interesting.

[music] Travis was looking for craters. smooth enough to use as a radio. telescope, which is a cool idea in its. own, but he found three blue lights in a. triangle in an Apollo 17 frame. [music]. And the Pentagon put that frame in the. UAP files that they just released in. May. And they admitted nobody knows what. that is. Now, what about the drilling at. Skimwalker? That blew my mind as you. saw. So they're like, what did he say? 70 feet, 370, whatever it was. They're. drilling into the mesa and they [music]. can't get through this metal. They get.

some shavings of it and it looks. manufactured. It's in layers like arts. parts. And then somebody jokes that the. only thing missing to make this [music]. a meteorite is nickel. Well, they didn't. find any nickel in the metal, but they. pulled out a 1964 nickel out of the same. hole. The boring [music] explanation is. the true one. Archaeologists bury a. dated coin so the next crew knows the. site's been dug. So Travis pulled. [music] every public aerial photo of the. property. 1963 is there. 1969 is there.

There's [music] nothing in between. Now. I don't know what's in that messa. I. don't know what's in that hole. [music]. It sounds like a spaceship. I don't. know. But I want it to be something. Travis's new novel is Apogee, the sequel. to Ballistic. And if you're into hard. sci-fi like I am, the books are really. good. There's a reason they're. bestsellers. [music]. his band with Jay Strat and his. hitchhiker effect. I haven't heard it. yet, but I can't vouch for [music] it, but I'm not going to miss it. He says. it's like Guns and Roses meets Leonard. Skinner. I don't know what that sounds.

like, but I'm down to try it. Everything. I mentioned is linked below. Until next. time, be safe, be kind, and know that. you are appreciated. [music]. >> [music]. >> Oh. yeah, I play Bibia in area 51. [music and singing] A secret code inside. the Bible said I would.

[music] I love my UFOs and paranormal. fun as well as music singing [music]. like I should. But then another conspiracy theory. becomes the truth [music] my friends. and it never ends. [singing]. No, it never ends. [music].

>> [music]. >> I feel the crab cat. I got stuck inside. M's home with MK out of being only true. [music]. Did Stanley Cubrick fake the moon. landing alone on a film set of [music]. the shadow people there? The Roswell aliens just fought the. smiling man, [music and singing]. I'm told. and his name was cold. But I can't.

I'm dancing with the fishes and the fish. on [music] Thursday night J and. all through the night. [music]. I ever wanted to hear the truth. all through the night. [music].

>> [music]. >> The M sidings and the solar storm. [music] still come to the secret city. underground. Mysterious number [music] stations, Planet Circle, Project Stargate, and. what the dark watchers found [music]. in a simulation. Don't you worry, though.

>> [music]. >> The black night. to me so I can't believe I'm dancing. with the fish. [music] on Thursday nights when they. chase you and me all through the night. [screaming]. All I ever wanted was to hear the truth. [music]. all through the night. [music].

When they change you and me all through. the night. [music and singing]. with me all through the. loves to. loves. to dance.

Girl [music] loves to dance on the dance. floor because she is a camel. Camel. loves [music] to dance when the feeling. is well wasting time. Heat. Heat. [music]. >> [music]. [bell].