The Basement: Nerdrotic | From Folsom Prison to Millions of Subscribers

Today I'm talking with Gary Beekler. You. probably know him as Nerd Rotic. Gary. has built a media empire around pop. culture commentary. Friday Night Tights, Forbidden Frontier, and a YouTube. channel at Hollywood Studios now quietly. track. Yes, a Hollywood finally figured. out how to read The Room, and The Room. says, "We hate everything you make.". Nice. >> But before any of this existed, Gary. grew up in San Diego in the8s. He spent. years running from a trauma that he. never shared with anyone. 80s San Diego has Top Gun, beach.

volleyball pool, and endless amounts of. party powder. He's running from it, but. I'mma run it to it. I feel the need. I feel the need. Do it or else take my breath away. >> I'm not doing it. >> I feel the need. >> Fine. [music] The need for speed. >> The need for speed. Gary eventually. ended up at Old Falsam State Prison. Not.

new Folsam, old Falsam. Johnny Cash. Falsome. I didn't know there were two. Falsoms. You're not going to like it. Well, today we cover all of it. The. second [music] grade teacher who changed. his life, what it's like to share a cell. with a double murderer, and how he went. from sleeping in his [music] car to. building a YouTube empire. Let's go down. to the basement. [music]. Gary, welcome to the basement.

>> Why, thank you. That's embarrassing. [laughter]. >> It's all good. Um, before we get. started, I ask everyone this question. UFO experienced researchers, physicists, concern, same question. Hypothetical, >> desert island, you get one choice. >> What flavor toilet wine? >> Toilet wine. What flavor? I would say. >> pruno. It would have to be pruno. Uh, which is made from oranges. >> Oh, you go orange. >> Well, I have to.

>> I mean, like I I would have to break my. sobriety cuz like I'm dead, right? Like. >> No, that's totally hypothetical. >> I would rather grow cocoa plants. If I'm. going to go out, I'm going to go out. good. But, uh, yeah, orange. Uh, that's. that's the one I'm the most familiar. with. I never touched the stuff, but I. certainly helped people make it and. [clears throat] helped people hide it. >> I read that. >> So, yes, it's uh it's oranges. It's I. believe it's yeast and you let it. ferment for a little while. >> Why do they call it toilet wine? >> Uh oh. Well, um sometimes you need to.

get your water from places other they. mostly get it from the sink, but I think. that's just the term they use. Plus, it's usually hidden around the toilet or. under a bunk. It can only last for so. long because uh they uh they they search. the cells pretty regularly and randomly. So, it has to be I honestly I don't know. how they do it. They were able to switch. cells and probably a guard tipped him.

off at at some point, you know, some. bribery, but like it's in like bags. It's in trash bags. It's was the. weirdest thing to learn about uh people. making wine in the joint is. >> and apparently it's really strong. >> Really? >> Yeah. It's like really really strong. wine. >> Strong for wine. It's not like booze. though. >> No. No. But when you're you got a bunch. of guys who haven't. drank or anything for months, it'll. probably hit them pretty hard. >> I bet it would. And you've had you've.

had alcohol before and. >> Yes. Okay. Yes. Uh before we go into the origin story, I. know you've told it a million times. It's such a good story. Um. when I was reading it, I cried at the. end and I felt myself getting angry at. you during it, especially cuz I know you. and you're a friend. I love you, so I. know how it ends. >> Love you too, man. Right, man. >> And I just want to smack you in the head. every every step of the way, which we're. going to get into. Um before we do the. origin story, let's kick it off.

positive. What's on TV or whatever movie. that you're liking right now? >> Uh, three things have come out this. year. >> What do you got? >> Uh, A Night of the Seven Kingdoms was. damn near 10 out of 10. Just a great. adaptation of a great nolla by George R. Martin who needs to finish his other. books. Uh, it is a really simple tale of. of heroism and what it means to be a. knight and chivalry. And while it still.

has some of the Game of Thrones aspects. of it, it's very it's very linear. Uh, and you can't help but root for both. Dunk and Egg and it was a short series. and it built momentum as time went on. and I just absolutely loved every minute. of it. Uh, >> I did too. Um, I didn't start Nights. until it was like episode 3 and I. started like this, just arms folded cuz. of just angry at everybody. Angry at at. season 6, five, all that. Dark Knight,

angry at George. I don't know how many. days we are waiting for the last book. >> Over 5,000. >> 5,000. >> Yeah. >> And of course, he's executive producer. So, I watched I don't know, I was maybe. 10 minutes into the first episode and I. was like, "Okay, they did it. This this. is this is really true to the books as I. I've read those and I loved it. Number. two, >> uh One Piece season 2. Absolutely loved. it. >> Okay. >> Never thought I would like this show. I'm not like the biggest anime fan in. the world. When I saw the trailer for.

season one, it looked like the worst. thing I've ever seen. I love season 1. and I love season two. >> Really? Cuz I'm not an anime guy. That's. interesting. It's it. in the same vein of the three things I. like are A Night of the Seven Kingdoms, Project Hail Mary, and One Piece. And. the one thing they have in common is a. positive look at the world. I'm so sick. to death. I liked Nihilism. I did. I. liked all that subversion stuff back in. the 2010s when it was cool. It is so. overdone. I am It's just It's cooked at.

this point as the kids say. Gen Z thinks. they came up with that. Yeah, I know. >> It's been around for 100 years. Okay, just want to let you know. Um, no, but. seeing uh heroes with a positive. outlook, seeing something hopeful is. nice. It's just really nice. And uh I. love uh all three of those things. And. you know, it makes you makes you wonder. if they can turn things around. >> Probably not, but you know. >> Was your number three? Hail Mary. >> Hail Mary. Love Project Hail Mary.

>> I that could that could save Hollywood. at least for a while. Uh because that. brought everybody back to the theaters. Um. >> it did. Top Gun Maverick did the same. thing though. >> That's what I was about to say. >> Uh uh three years ago and they learned. nothing from it and they thought it was. just this jingoistic patriotic movie. It's like no, it was just a feel-good. heroic story that and the the reason we. go to the theater or. you have to make this distinction for. for popcorn movies, for tentpole movies.

is to escape, right? Right. I don't need. to be lectured to. There are certainly. spaces and times for those movies. Uh. you can make them all day long as. independent films, but when it comes to. I want to take my family or I want to. just go and have a good time and turn. off the rest of the world. Uh that's. that's when Hollywood is doing their. best and that's when they actually put. good in the world. They they really love. to think that they're changing the world. and what they they're not providing. entertainment. They're a platform for.

influence. AJ and uh we're going to. teach those plebs out in the middle. America how to think, you know, instead. of just going, you let's just entertain. them and it brings people together and. we've lost that with the division. Um I. think some in Hollywood are starting to. recognize that. The problem is. it's uh it's like Twitter before Elon. took over. The cancer was there and you. have to cut it out root and stem and. it's I don't think it's possible in. Hollywood. I think there will be some.

change, but uh I think the lesson we can. learn from Project Hail Mary is this is. what people want that I mean it's just a. nice hopeful story with a really dark, you know, the world is ending in it. >> Uh and it like it made me want to watch. all the space movies. So I've watched. 2001 which is amazing. Uh Interstellar, Contact, Contact's 10 [clears throat]. out of 10. >> Contact still the best. >> Contact's the best. The [snorts] ending. it's okay. arrival I thought was solid.

Let me push back on one thing. >> Sure. >> Um. >> and this is not gonna be a political. show because people are gonna be. surprised. You're not a political guy. >> No. >> Uh Gene Rodenberry put his politics in. his shows and we love the original. series. So. >> his politics were in there. Why did they. work? they worked um because they. weren't that heavy-handed and when they. approached the audience it was in a way. if you want to change somebody's mind. the I I I would I would discourage you.

going hey bigot listen to me. [laughter and gasps] you know that's. that's not how you change people's mind. the defenses automatically go up so what. they do is they present to you the idea. and it and they leave it kind of up to. you. in a lot of Star Trek they leave in a. lot of X Files they leave it up to you. to kind of see that stuff. And uh that's. that's the mark of a good writer. And we. certainly know where Jean Rottenberry's. uh you know politics come from. But we. also have to consider the time he grew.

up uh the time he you know he went to. not grew up but you know he went to. World War II. He he he's a writer who. lived a life. We have writer none of the. writers not most of the writers in. current Hollywood have not lived the. lives of the writers of even 10 or 20. years ago who were veterans or had. careers before writing. Uh now they're. just their their knowledge of the world. is other TV shows and riffing other TV. shows. >> Right. And I think Rodenberry.

was always story first. Mhm. >> So his politics were there he wanted but. his politics were just let's all get. along make the world a better place but. this it was always about the story and. that's flipped a little bit with some. properties. >> particularly with Star Trek. >> Yes. >> Uh Star Trek lost its way and that's why. right now for the first time in 10 years. there's no Star Trek in production. In. my humble opinion there hasn't been any. Star Trek in production in that time. except for Bicard season 3. I like it.

But. >> # bringbackalis. >> Yes. >> Um I was I was the same way and I was. all in on Star Trek. All of it. I'm I'm. a niner. DS9. That's that's my favorite. >> It's good. >> Um so I stuck with Discovery for a long. time. Eventually I was just I was just. out. I was so disappointed. And um and I. never came back except I heard you. talking about Bquard which I started and. it was I was terrible. And season 3 was.

that it was like they finally figured it. out. Now, how did that how did it happen. that we got the story that we wanted as. Star Trek fans? >> Curtsman uh and Aka Goldsman, who Aka Goldzman's won an Academy Award, right? Um but he's not really and and. and he wrote Constantine, which is. actually a good movie. Not really good. at Star Trek in my opinion at all. and. Pequard season one and two are the like. last Jedi of Star Trek. They're so just.

Pequard is a broken old man. Um, so it. got better because Curtsman went off to. go do uh The Man Who Fell to Earth. and it was obligatory that they have. they they owed Patrick Stewart a third. season. So they gave him no money. Basically the entire series is a bottle. series and but he had no supervision and. he was able to do whatever he wanted. Um. word on the street is he was able to.

fire everybody he wanted to except for. one person. He made that one person. work. I won't say who it is but he made. that one person work and he brought back. the crew and he just it was a bunch of. fan service and he had to do mental. gymnastics to to bring back the. Enterprise D and the like and it worked. It was. And the funniest bit at the end, well, they gave Star Trek fans something. Star Star Wars fans didn't get. They We. had the crew of the Enterprise on the. Enterprise D at the end of an episode.

just together. The carpet, the lighting, everything. It's all we wanted. >> That's all we wanted. >> It's all we wanted. And you know, logic. be damned. Uh, and uh, the best part at. the end was there was a virus from the. Borg that affected only young people. It. was [clears throat] a mind virus. [laughter]. >> So that's how they worked it out where. the old people had to come in and save. the young people. It was great. I. >> are like, are you getting it? Uh, when. when Warf showed up, did you how I was.

screaming when Warf showed up with the. fight scene. >> Michael Dorne's just still bringing it. >> It's my favorite. Uh my outside of the. original series, that is my favorite. modern Star Trek character. He w he. ruled in that. >> he was the best. >> Y. >> uh the best moment in Picard season 3. for me was when I was such fan service. It was so gratuitous. I loved it. >> Is when they were at the shipyard look. going through all the ships and you just. hear the theme song woven through. >> Yep. >> And I was the tears are coming down. I.

was just I was a mess. >> You're like I I didn't know I needed. this. >> I I knew I did. I knew I I but I didn't. know it would be executed so perfectly. Oh, it was it was just so. >> And it came from somebody who like Terry. Matalis, you can't deny the man loves Star Trek. Like loves Star Trek and probably I. don't know David Ellison if you're out. there because of course you watch the Y. Files. Um that's probably the guy you. should hire. >> That's the guy you should hire. >> to run Star Trek right now. >> Be my my suggestion. >> I think he might do it. I don't know if.

um if Kurtzman's gonna get another. project after Starfleet Academy. >> I I. if he does, Paramount Warner Brothers. are done. >> They're done. They're done as a company. like because that really tells you what. the path is. I don't think he's coming. back. I I I think. >> I don't think so either. And whenever I. hear you or Drinker or people saying. Star Trek is over, I know you don't mean. it. I know that if if it comes back and. they give you what you want, you're. coming right back. Of course, of course,

>> of course. I'm a fan. I I love Star Trek. is part of your life, part of my life. We didn't have a lot of TV. Not to age. us too much, but we had what, three. channels to choose from. I was lucky cuz. I was in San Diego. So, I had six cuz we. had the San Diego and we got the LA. stations. >> Oh, okay. So, but they all played the. same stuff, [laughter]. you know, but it was just Star Trek, Twilight Zone, Outer Limits, um, Gilligans Island, like on heavy.

rotation. >> That's so weird you say Gilligans. Island, cuz I was just thinking that, as. you said, what we watched, we watched. Gilligans Island all the time. I don't. know why. >> And the original Batman was always on. >> all that. Uh, the first superhero shows. I watched were uh, uh, George Reef. Superman and and Adam West Batman. >> Yes, same. >> And I thought it was, you know, I was a. kid, so I'm like, this is totally a. serious show. [laughter] This is an. earnest show. >> I forget the name of it. Uh, the book is.

around here somewhere. It's a story. about George Reeves and the terri and. the horrible life that he had. It's. really worth reading. Um, >> he's a tragedy, but he was a great. Superman. Um, so we've been friends for a long time. and I've been I've been a fan of yours I. probably probably during co so a long. time and. I know you've told your origin story a. million times. You have a lot of fans. here at the studio and I was talking to. one of them just the other day and I. said, "Oh man, Gary's going to tell his.

prison story again." And she goes, "What? He was in prison?" So apparently. people don't know some some people don't. know that you did real time. >> Yeah. >> And uh. >> comparatively. Yeah. >> Well uh reading reading your memoir. there were times where I was actually. scared because you're so honest in it. about you're really honest in it. Uh. which we'll get into. Really. surprisingly honest. So when you. establish that honesty very early on.

like with what happened when you were a. kid. >> Yeah. Now I never know what's going to happen. Like it's like a George Martin novel, right? You never know who's going to die. next because so it's established. So. when you're in prison, I'm just waiting. for the tragedy and eventually things do. happen. Um. so I want to hear about the beginning. even. before. Talk about you're adopted. >> Yeah. Uh I was um my uh my birth mom who.

I am in contact with to this very day. who is a lovely woman um uh got pregnant. with me when she was 16. Uh she was a. partier. uh back in the 60s you know as the and I. don't hold this against her at all. She's again she's a wonderful Catholic. good Catholic woman now. Um, and uh my. my sperm donor dad who I've never met, don't know what he looks like. Don't. care. >> Are you angry about him? >> No, not at all. Okay. No, I mean I I.

understand he was young too, but I. figured if um if he wanted to find me, he he could find me, right? Uh I had a. dad though, so I in the dad department, totally taken care of. Uh so I was. adopted. >> So wait, hang on. We if you met your. birth mom, you didn't ask about your. father. >> I've asked about him, but I've never. really. >> What did she say? >> She She doesn't know. She like once he. was gone, he was gone. So, he promised. to to stay with her. He was The only.

thing I know about him is his name and. he was a 7th Day Adventist. So, um. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Wasn't practicing very well, I guess. Um. >> was he good to her. >> up until the end? Yes. Yeah. Up until. the end. and he said he'd stay. Uh, and. this would be a qu she doesn't really. talk about it a bunch and I don't push, but he had promised to stay and then he. took off. >> Okay. >> Uh, and he was at the time I think 18. So, it's like.

>> I I kind of get it. >> Yeah. >> That's why it's okay, you know. I kind. of get it. >> Yeah. I I'm not um Was I angry about it. when I was younger? Absolutely. But I'm. not now. Um, >> when did you find out you were adopted? >> Very early. Um, I think my parents told. me when I was seven. >> When you were seven or. >> six or seven? Yeah. >> How did that conversation start? >> Oh. Uh, what little I remember of it. Uh, my mom.

and dad both just wanted to like they. sat down and go, "We love you the same. as Terry, you know, but we have to tell. you this." That's it's foggy that. conversation, but uh I remember it. tripping me out a for a listen, if. you're adopted, it it it I'm sure it. affects people differently, but it. affects you. It does. It's like I you. you don't feel wanted. Um and you're. always thinking about that person who.

like. >> who just dumped you. >> What does she look like? >> Why did she. >> do this? You know, um. >> why did why were you rejected? >> Yeah. and you're trying to deal with. stuff like that when you're like seven. years old. So, uh I used to Yeah, I used. to like have little fantasies about it. when I was a kid. But like honestly, I. never got mad at my parents about it and. other than feeling the abandonment. Um. >> when is a good age to tell an adoption? >> Boy, I don't know if there's ever a good. I think early as possible is the best.

way to do it. Yeah, >> seven feels really hard. >> Yeah, but if you wait too long. >> True. I. >> it's true. I I don't know. >> Honestly, I don't know a good answer to. that question, but it it it soften the. blow with me because again, it's going. to affect you no matter what. >> So, do you affect them early or late? That's on the parent to do that. I don't. have a good suggestion for that. But for. me, it wasn't terrible. >> Well, you were kind of a little asshole. >> Yes.

>> For a long time. >> Long time. >> Do you think uh. >> Some might argue I still am. >> Some might. Uh, I wouldn't you but but. you're kind of an asshole. You're poor. parents, man. >> Reading the book, I'm like, they're. still sticking with this kid. Um, if. they had told you a little later, do you. think you would have been a little more. chill? >> Maybe. >> I'm just Because there's an undercurrent. of anger in your origin story.

>> Yeah. >> Railing against the man, authority, all. of that. It's the anger is coming from. somewhere because when you're 11 or 12, you don't really know anything. So, what. are you angry about? So, if they waited, >> if they waited, I don't think it would. have helped my anger. Uh maybe a more. mature 12 because I wasn't super mature, but that was because of the things that. h I I if if anything that made me angry, we can talk about like what happened to. me in school. >> Let's do it. This is way worse than.

finding out. >> uh I was adopted was I was uh molested. by a teacher by a school teacher. So, >> how old? >> Uh I was in second grade. So, whatever. age second grade is. >> Six or seven. >> Yeah. So, right around the same time. >> Right around the same time. >> That's a busy year. >> That's a. >> Were you singled out by that teacher? >> Um I don't know. It It felt like I was, but I honestly don't know. Um, and he.

was brazant about it. Like he would. uh that like during a we were watching a. Disney movie. Maybe this is why I hate. Disney. [laughter]. Um, we were watching a Disney movie and. he pulled me in the back and while the. kids were watching and did stuff, right? Um, I I was about to say nothing. horrible, but no, it was horrible. >> Of course it was. >> It was all horrible. Right. So this I I. if you want to like put a finger on my. deep distrust of the government, the.

system, uh my I don't like teachers. unions because they protect this is not. AJ, this is me. Um they protect people. like this. Yep. And it's been proven. that they do this. Uh and they don't do. anything about it. Uh so it really set. me up to completely fail in school, not. trust any adult, not trust any. authority. >> So there's definitely anger there that. you're carrying. You didn't. >> You didn't tell anyone about what the.

teacher was doing, right? >> No, no, it didn't tell uh as a matter of. fact, I got um when one day was. particularly bad, I bailed on on school. I just walked out of school and started. walking Yeah. in second grade. So, there's a little second grader walking. home on this busy uh Lacosta Avenue, if. you're familiar with Southern. California, little second grader. And. people started noticing that they called. the school, bus driver came and got me. And uh I got in trouble. I got in huge.

trouble for it. >> And that's interesting. >> And I couldn't say what what I was, you. know, they're all Why'd you leave? >> That would make any kid angry. >> Yep. cuz I hear you are taking the heat for. it. And you have no idea what I've been. through. >> Um I was angry at that teacher the whole. way through your book. Uh I know you. were through your sobriety. We'll get to. that. But um. >> how how you got through that is is. amazing. I don't know if I could. >> So uh.

second grade. When did you start becoming a. delinquent? [snorts]. >> Not far after that. Uh, I broke I wanted. a toy. >> Yeah. >> And, uh, knew where the spare key was. and broke into my friend's house. Got. caught by his dad, [laughter] you know, like all this. This is at a single. digit. >> Single digit. >> Broke into my first house. >> I mean, a theme. >> just cuz I wanted something. >> Throughout your book, you're just the.

worst criminal ever. You're just not. good at it, Gary. You're not good at it. >> I'm stupid as hell. [sighs]. >> Still am, by the way. Uh but yeah, I. just, you know, I just like I I remember. I remember getting caught. >> Of course. >> Yeah. And uh you know, I went home and. uh they told my dad and I got in a huge. amount of trouble, but it it never. discouraged me. >> No, it didn't. You kept going back. >> I kept doing it. >> What about substances, booze, and stuff?

When did that start? >> That started uh Oh, god. 11 10 11 12. Um, >> how is that even around? An 11-year-old. >> Well, pot was around. >> Sure. >> Pot was around, but um, first time I I. really got drunk was at uh, Rosco, South. Dakota. They had a Centennial or Yeah. Centennial. And there was like half. drinking beers laying around. And I'm. like, I just I want to try this. Cuz my. dad would let me sip a beer. >> Sure.

>> So, I saw everybody else getting drunk. I'm like, let's try it. And I loved it. I was like, oh. So, I'm drinking like. people. I don't know what the hell's in. this can. I just I didn't care. >> You love the drink or you love the. feeling? >> I love the feeling. The drink tasted. like crap. >> Yep. >> Yep. I've never liked the taste of. alcohol, >> but the escape is pretty good. >> Yep. That's where it all started. I'm like, "Oh, this is for me. This is for me.". And then it went to pot. And uh not uh. not too far after that um a friend of.

mine like laid out a line of of of. crystal meth, which is a lot I guess a. lot different now than it was back then. It was called crank back then. >> Mhm. >> How old are you now when the. >> uh this is junior high. >> Are you holding now? You have anything. decent? Nothing good? >> No, nothing. No. >> No. I've got some nicotine things that. There you go. >> There you go. Um, yeah, I I have one bad. habit still. I I vape. So,

>> that is not your only bad habit, but. that's fine. That's fine. >> Well, not right now. No. So, okay. So, I'm my. >> So, where's your crank? Who are you. hanging out with? I didn't see I didn't. I hardly saw pot growing up and it's not. like. >> Oh, this was just my friends in junior. high and it and I was a jock early on. So I was hanging out with the jocks. >> Football. >> Football basketball. >> So I played tight end. I played. linebacker. I was also punter. I was. backup quarterback. So I was pretty. good, you know, for for a white boy in.

like all white boy county. Yep. >> But um. >> yeah. So he lays out a line for me and I. did it and then I'm like, "What's it. do?" I had no idea what it did. He's. like, "Uh, you get your homework done. today.". And I got my homework done. I'm like, "This is great. It it makes me excited. about everything I hate because I I. school never really worked for me and. I'm sure there's a lot of people out. there who feel the same way. Um it just.

I was uh I think the best at best I was. a C student when I paid attention but it. never captured my attention. This is. before drugs. It just never interested. me. Um. >> this is basically aderall. >> Yeah, it's I mean people they called it. hyperactive back then. I was considered. a hyperactive child. >> Yep. >> And. uh it did I mean it did focus me for a. little while. It it it did. But uh. >> look, I'm on that stuff. I've used that.

stuff. I struggle with drinking too. much. I go sober on and off. I struggle. with it on and off. I totally feel all. of this. You just went you went harder, but I totally get all of it. And that. feeling of just clarity. of all the chaos on your on the ADHD. mind is very very intriguing of just. like oh my goodness I could be. productive. >> Yeah. And it's it it was the first I'm. like maybe there's something wrong with. me. Like I've heard that before but it. was the first time I'm like.

oh if this stuff works on me that can't. be good. I even knew that then. Yeah. Uh. but the fact is it works and it makes it. makes me focused for the first time. The. thing is though that's not exactly true. because I would focus like crazy on. stuff I was interested in. like I would. focus on comics and entertainment and. all this stuff my dad and my mom said. wasn't important and they were wrong you. know they said it wasn't important uh.

and I wouldn't pay attention to anything. I was supposed to and it it eventually. got me out of like the things I did love. sports it got me out of those and then I. started hanging around with all the bad. kids cuz once I started doing the drugs. I'm like well I need to hang around the. people who are doing the drugs. >> yeah who have the drugs and you're not. really going to anymore, right? >> No. No. I started ditching in uh. freshman year and I managed to squeak. out uh sophomore year, but then that was. it. Uh I got uh kicked out of uh Santo.

High School. >> Hang on one second. Hey, Haley, get get. Jen in here. >> Um. started using when the meth started when. you were what about 13? >> Yeah. >> 14. How are you getting the money for that? >> How am I getting the money for that? Well, at first it was. friends had the money and they shared it. and it was kind of like normal. Um I had.

a paper route. Um but. >> did you get the paper route saying I. need drug money? >> No, no, no. That was that was normal. That was normal. But um. right away stealing like right away I. would get jobs. The jobs came later the. like when I was 16. Uh my first job was. at Burger King. >> Come sit on my lap. >> Okay. >> Oh boy. >> Stage directions. >> Okay. >> So Gary bounces around a couple of high.

schools. He's not he's not doing he's. not doing well. >> Okay. >> He goes to I guess the high school for. bad kids, right? >> Yeah. This is this is just a just a. quick scene. Have a seat from Gary's. memoir. >> Okay. >> Uh your stage direction. I'm the. teacher. >> All right. >> And Gary's Gary. We'll start with stage. direction. Interior Sunset High School. >> Okay. >> Oh god. Sunset. >> Interior Sunset High School classroom. day. The last bell rings. Students file. out. Gary Beakler, 17. Wiry restless.

stays seated at his desk, but not by. choice. He watches the other kids leave. with the deadeyed patience of someone. who's been through this before. The. teacher, mid-40s, waits behind his desk, jaw tight, until the room empties, a. long beat of silence. Then he stands, walks slowly to Gary's desk, and looks. him dead in the eye. >> Beakler, I've had enough of you. >> Gary doesn't flinch. He looks right. back. >> Yeah. Is that right? >> It absolutely is. I've had more than my. fill of you. Way more. >> You don't say. >> Yeah, I do. I do say you're wasting my.

time, Beer. You're wasting everyone's. time here. We both know you don't belong. here at sunset. You're never going to. amount to anything ever. And as far as. I'm concerned, I want you out of here. >> Gary stands up slowly. No fear, no. hesitation. >> Really? Really? Uh, I've got the most amazing coincidence to. share with you. I I want the same godamn. thing. So, here's my idea. What if you. go fuck yourself? >> The teacher's face goes red. He starts.

screaming. A full-blown unhinged adult. meltdown. Gary has never seen ANYTHING. LIKE IT. >> BEAKLER, [screaming]. YOU CANNOT TALK TO A TEACHER LIKE THAT. YOU USELESS PIECE OF SHIT. >> They stare each other down. A long. electric beat. Gary thinks for a couple. of seconds, then he makes his decision. He punches the teacher square in the. mouth hard. The teacher goes down fast. He doesn't come back up. Gary looks at. him on the floor, looks at the door, he. walks out. >> Mhm. >> Fade to black. >> Fade to black. That was the end of my. school career. Wow.

>> Punched him right in the mouth. >> Yep. >> That was a tense scene because I'm I was. waiting for him to punch you. I was hope. I wanted him to I wanted him to punch. you and that was the end of your school. career. >> That was it. >> Press charges. >> Um no no nothing. I mean. >> dodged another bullet. >> Uh and I was partying so hard if they. could they could have pressed charges or. told my parents wouldn't have mattered. Like I was pretty much gone at that. point. What are they what are your. parents trying to do? Are they trying to. intervene or are they just.

>> My parents have given up at that point? >> How what do you mean given up? They're. still letting you stay. >> Uh no, they they booted me. So, right. Yeah, they booted me. No, it was the. greatest act of love my father ever. showed me. Uh my father, Arvin Beckler, I passed away in. >> in the early 2000s from cancer. And uh. was a great man and uh I didn't. recognize that. >> He was a great man. >> Yep. Yep. and uh greatest act of love he. ever showed me was to give me the boot. and I'm I'm and not look back and I'm.

sure it killed him inside. Uh at the. time I thought he was a complete asshole. and couldn't care less if he lived or. died. Uh my mom w would enable I was. able to manipulate my mom and enable at. times when I needed to, but mostly I was. I was on my own on the streets. We'll. [snorts] keep it chronological, but just. a sidebar, uh, >> your story about your dad, I had the. same story with the cancer and the and. it sucks. It sucks to watch a p My dad.

was a superhero to watch him get cancer. just kick his ass. >> Yeah. >> Did dad ever forgive you? >> Yes. Yes, we we reconciled and we. actually got really close uh towards the. last uh right when I got out of uh we. won't get too far ahead, but after. prison we were the best of friends. >> Absolutely the best of friends. >> I was so happy to hear that. >> Yeah. >> Um because I couldn't believe they stuck. with you. >> I couldn't either. >> All right, so you're you punch the.

teacher in the mouth. No charges. What. happens next? What are you se 16? 16 and. it's just pure chaos. Um staying uh. mostly staying at my friend's house. I. mean all the names were changed to. protect the innocent and guilty. >> Right. So this is Bobby. >> Uh yes. And we stayed at the it was. called the Crystal Palace. >> People from Edenus will know it. Uh so. you'll know who I'm talking about at the. time in the 80s. And it was just a party.

house. It was a it was not unlike the. Crass House in the UK. if you're. familiar with the story of the craft. house, except there's no creativ Well, there was some creativity going on, but. it was mostly just drugs. Um, uh, his. dad was a bartender and would be gone. all day and when he came back, he was. just checked out and didn't care. So, >> drunk, >> drunk, completely drunk, complete. alcoholic. >> So, this is perfect. >> Yeah, >> perfect. Perfect. >> Great. We had run. We had girls over all. the time. And we were not like the.

coolest kids in school. you were. >> But we became that because we threw the. parties and it it was for a while it was. like lots of fun and that was my like. found family for a little while. Of. course it all went to shit pretty quick. >> You seem to know pretty early on that. you were making bad decisions that. you're going to have to pay for one day. >> Mhm. >> How early how young did you realize this. is a bad dec I'm doing it anyway, but.

this is not going to end well? >> Yeah. Um I I never thought I'd live to. 30. >> So I'm like I'm just going to. >> I'm just going to ride this out. Now I. was not ever like suicidal. Uh but I'm. like ah you know this uh but I never. really gave it a ton of thought about. the con. I knew the consequences were. there but I'm like that's tomorrow. >> That's tomorrow. >> That's tomorrow I'm going to get so cuz. when you know. >> it's the worst one day at a time ever. >> It is that's why they teach you one day. at a time because that's pretty much how. the addict.

>> goes about. It is just today I need to I. either have my drugs when I if I wake up. in the morning if I'm not up all night. >> or um I got to find my drugs and it's. it's it's like feeding. It's like a. shark feeding. You you have to have that. and then everything else can happen and. jobs and friend relationships friends. girlfriends none of that matters because. the drugs are your god. Uh and that's. where the disease portion comes in. And. I think a lot of people fight back on.

this and uh and I get it. I get it. It's. not a disease in the sense of, you know, like Parkinson's or or cancer. It's it's. a disease. >> It's way worse. >> It's a disease that requires a conscious. decision. So, um I think if anybody ever. used the disease part as an excuse to, you know, to relieve them of any. responsibility, that's that's not that's. not what it means. It just means that. our brain chemistry is different. um and not necessarily good. So, we have.

an addictive personality to where, you. know, there's just some people who can. drink half a beer and leave it on the. counter. I was never that person. And I. don't think any addict is. Uh and. >> I drink till it's till it's till it's. dark black, till it's gone. >> Yeah. Yeah. But I was like that with my. my Halloween candy. Like I couldn't I I. ate it all one night. You were. instructed not to do that. >> Yes. [laughter].

>> So, Crystal Palace 1617. I guess we can fast. forward to Bobb's in the back seat. What? Weighing out baggies cuz you're. cuz you're dealing a little bit, right? Mostly using but dealing a little bit to. make some cash. >> Yeah, I was dealing to pretty much my. friends or a couple of older people. Uh, but I knew everybody I was deal I was. never dealing to to strangers or uh it. was usually just my fellow teenagers.

>> Just part of the party. >> Yep. >> I was terrible at it. I was awful. >> So Bobb's in the back. You're driving. your is you I think you This is your. mobile. >> Yeah. 67 O's mobile. >> It was sweet. 22,000 miles on it. It was. a sweet car. Got it from a little old. lady who was a neighbor of my grandma. Always the little old ladies where the. good cars come from. >> Yeah. >> Uh didn't end well for the olds either. So you're driving the olds. Bobb's in. the back weighing out baggies. Whoop.

whoop. Here we go. >> And. you didn't get into it too much, but you. knew this lady cop. >> Uh yes. >> How did you know her? Uh she had busted. us on enough times for like curfew uh. and and just little minor stuff but uh. little scraps here and there. But we. used to hang out at a pin pinball plus. It was a arcade. It was in a there was. not much to do in Southern California in. the 80s in San Diego. It is suburbia. So.

if there is an arcade that's where every. kid's going to go and that's what we. did. >> Same. So, uh, they started enforcing a. curfew. So, that's how we we we knew. each other and she really hated me, but. I had, uh, >> she hated you because of your attitude. >> Yeah, my attitude was shit. Like, she. had a good reason to. It's not like she. didn't. >> cuz this anti- athority thing is goes. through all this, right? She's and she's. the man. So, she knocks in the window. Ah, >> hey, Gary. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And you were,

>> "Hi, officer. >> Hello." And well, there's the Batman. handcuffs, right? So, uh, >> that's right. Yes. Is that why you got. pulled over? >> I got pulled over for Batman handcuffs. hanging off my rearview mirror as an. obstruction, but she saw me. She saw me. and found an excuse and Yeah. So, we got. busted. Um, and. >> now hang on. She tossed the car. >> Yeah. Tossed it. >> You said she looked, she found that, found the meth, and it was like she hit. the lottery. >> Uh, it was the greatest day of her life.

>> Abs. Absolutely. Been waiting for this all summer long. >> Scale. scale. >> intense distribute. >> Yep. A scale. I told him to keep it. fucking home, but he didn't. And uh that. was the first time I really went to. jail. No, that that's it. Yeah, that was. I went for, you know, couple weeks, couple three weeks, couple second. You. go in, you get booked. I come from a cop. family. I have this person. Yeah. >> You get booked, you get separated, and. and they want to know the story when.

they're when they're writing you up. >> Uhhuh. >> Bobby fingered you. Yeah. >> Yeah, he did. cuz you were just driving. >> I That's I told the truth. I was just. driving. I But nobody's going to believe. that it wasn't mine. >> But it really wasn't. But he's all No, it was his. >> So. >> yeah. Um. >> you didn't snitch. >> I did. Bobby did. >> Bobby did. >> And this And you go to jail. >> Yeah. And uh this is the first time. So, we're in San Diego County Jail and it's.

uh it's down uh near Union Street, downtown Street. >> Are you nervous? Are you frightened? >> Oh, totally. Totally. Like, this is like. what the hell is going on? And then. we're you know, >> do you show it or you try to be tough? >> I tried to be tough. Don't know how much. I pulled it off. Luckily, the chaos of. the place probably kind of hid that. because it was just a big dorm, right? And it was a big receiving dorm. Um, >> you didn't know at this point that this.

is nothing. >> Oh, no clue. >> Nothing. >> No clue. Uh, got got out of that one. >> Well, how did mom and dad handle that? >> Uh, not very well, but my dad got a. lawyer and said, "This is the one time. I'll help you.". >> If I'm If I remember correctly, you technically got the lawyer, right? >> Yeah. Well, yes. >> What' he say through the glass? Oh, the the lawyer. Yeah. Uh, well, I. do. You know what? I had to give up to. get this lawyer, right?

>> I do. They don't. >> Okay. Uh, I had to give up uh an. Oldmobile. >> The Oldsmobile. [laughter] The 67. Cuz. your dad said, "I'm going to get you. this lawyer, but you're going to pay for. it.". >> Yes. Yes. >> And you said, "Yes, sir. >> Yes, sir. Of course." Freedom. For I. didn't even think twice about it. I. mean, it it hurts now cuz I'm like, "Maybe I could have stayed in an extra. week. [laughter]. But I had to give up that. And uh like. the engine was it was spotless, dude. Like um the painting on the, you know,

I'm have to go off memory, but it said. Spitfire engine on it. It was painted in. red and it was all original and was all. still there. >> What was it? A 350? >> Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. It was 350. So your dad must. have been so proud. His his baby boy. found his way. All problems are solved. Uh, no. Dad was not happy uh about any. of this. And they uh you know, you got. to get clean. They did all that stuff. And I just kept partying. I just, you.

know, once once once I was out. >> and still booze and meth, right? >> Booze booze and meth. It became more. meth. I was way more into speed cuz like. I don't know. I I I. smoked pot. I I I drank, but anything. that kind of makes you feel tired, I was. never really into. What's funny is like. well it's not funny. >> You and I would have got along so well. I would have been a great customer. >> Oh yeah. Oh yeah. When when when I could. find like alternatives I never like in. the early days maybe did Coke a couple.

of times that that's later. But uh when. we found like Dexadream and the diet. pills and stuff like Oh yeah. >> I'm familiar. >> Oh yeah. >> Mhm. >> Love that stuff. >> Me too. Um, so. now you start breaking into houses, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Pretty regularly. >> Cars and houses. >> Cars and houses. And uh there was one. that was so stupid.

It's so stupid. It was so heavy. Can you. can you tell that story? >> Well, is this Okay. Well, there a lot of. them are stupid. The one with the the. pennies. Okay. So, this is. this is so retarded. Um, okay. This is. this shows you the insanity of drugs. I. can't remember who I was with now. We um. some guy looked like he was in the. Almond Brothers, right? >> I think you guys all look like that. >> Yeah. And I'm half the people I'm.

hanging with at this point, I don't even. know. Uh so I get this great idea that. we need uh money. Uh, I had none, but I. know for a fact that my neighbor has. this the water bottles when they were. glass, I think some of them still are, >> had one filled full of pennies. And I'm. like, well, there's got to be like. hundred bucks in there. Couple hundred. bucks maybe, you know. Um, didn't think. very much about like how heavy it would. be. >> Right. Right. >> So, I I I knew how to get in their house.

and I'm a genius. I cut a hole in the. chain link fence to thinking. >> you're just providing a trail of. evidence. >> Yeah, providing a trail. [laughter] I. might as well have just like left. breadcrumbs out and said, "This is Gary. >> I wish I could see your face when you go. to grab the penny and you go.". >> Yeah. And I like, "Oh, >> shit. >> This is really heavy." [laughter]. >> And I wasn't like in the best shape in. the world. Um, so I Yeah, I get away.

with it for a a little while, but then. eventually I get caught. Yeah. But I got. I went and lost a year of my life. >> You did a year for the pennies. >> For the pennies. A water bottle full of pennies. >> Still County. >> Still County at this point. So we. Yeah. You uh I went to. >> Is this before the Porsche incident? >> Yes. >> Oh god. Okay. >> So So it was um. Yeah. I I I did county jail and this is. the fire camp and all that. So.

>> So you were you're like almost a. volunteer fireman while you were in. there. >> Yep. Yep. >> Serving the community, getting exercise. outside and you still. >> screwed it up. >> Absolutely screwed up almost. immediately. I was in the best shape of. my life. Uh I got hurt. So uh I was able. to manipulate that that injury. >> Is this How did you get hurt? >> I broke my tailbone the first time. >> Yeah. Yeah, I broke my tailbone. >> Wow. >> Uh, fuck it around. Um, I was walking.

down a a mountain and I was like. pretending I was skiing. I was and I. slipped and busted my tailbone, but I. was able to like manipulate that into. getting into a a halfway house, right? Uh, so, you know, the last little bit of. my sentence wasn't too bad, right? I got. to, you know, go out once in a while. >> So, you get out. We'll fast forward a. little bit. you go back to using, dealing, all of that. And I I forget how. the chapter started, but maybe if the.

chapter started something like, >> "You thought it would be a good idea to. get a gun, and I've got an idea how to. get one." And I went, "Oh, no. >> I never had a gun." And uh I was like, "This This is how stupid it is." So, I. didn't need to do anything. [laughter] I. >> You didn't do it for your life. >> I No. No. I I I I had a bunch of money. Y. >> I had a bunch of drugs. All I had to do. was. >> get high and have fun. I'm like, you.

know, I know a good way to screw this. up. >> Sure. >> I need a gun. So, I'm going to go to an. ex-girlfriend's house to her dad's got a. gun collection. I'm going to break in. while they're there cuz I'm bored, you. know, whatever. Um was behind that. It. wasn't It wasn't like suicide or it was. like I'm going to off myself. No, it was. just like I want a gun. >> Never rob a gun guy's house. >> No. >> Um, that's really. >> Go on. >> That's really dumb. So, I get in.

>> You get into the garage, right? >> I get in through the garage on the side. door and go into the house and there's a. little dog. So, little dogs are the. absolute best security. Big dogs, you. can feed them or pet them and like some. of them, not all, but little dogs will. just bark and bark and bark and bark. This this little shit dog was barking. like crazy. So, I'm like, "Okay, I got. to I got to pull the eject on this one. I got to get out of here.". >> But hold on just a quick second. A. little bit of a real Gary shows through. here. Cuz in your book, you say you.

thought for a second about killing the. dog. >> Yes. I could I could have just like. strangled the dog. And uh. >> Mhm. >> At that point, it wouldn't have. mattered. Uh cuz you could I could have. probably strangled it and he would have. stopped barking. >> Mhm. >> Uh there's no way I'm going to kill a. dog. [laughter] There's just no way in. hell I was going to kill a dog. >> So, >> so it's like, okay, time to go. And. uh went through the garage door, and. this is where like you start thinking. about higher power and and uh fate.

The the door I just used to get in the. side door for the garage, the door. handle falls off. Just falls off. >> It's so cinematic this this story. Go. on. So, you're stuck in there. >> And I hide under a Porsche. >> There's not a lot of room to hide under. >> No. [laughter]. >> And uh her dad has got a gun and my you. know, pulls me out. >> So you But you see the feet, right? >> I see the feet. >> This is like an in a movie.

>> Yeah. And then Well, he can see me, too. So, >> of course, he knows what's going on. >> So, I get out. I see the feet. I'm like, I'm just waiting to get I'm like, h I. guess I'm not getting out of this one, right? And then I've got a gun in my. face. Did he say did he recognize you? No. >> Uh yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. >> So hey Gary, now there's a gun on your. face. >> Now there's a gun in my face and he's. mad as hell and his hand is shaking and. you can see the bullets in the chamber. and I'm like, "Oh shit." Um and I got my. life saved by a cop. You know, a cop. they called the cops and I didn't get.

shot in the face. Uh and I'm sure you. you know the cop's like, you know, he's. on the Navy pistol team. Like I could. have shot you from 50 yards right. between the eyes. >> He probably wanted to. >> Probably wanted to. And uh I ended up. writing him a letter like later on. So. >> during your recovery? >> Yeah. During my recovery. >> that was like a make amends type of. thing. >> Yeah. Never heard back, but I'm sure he. got it. >> That's that's what's important. >> Yeah. Yeah. But that was when I went in. for a long because I had the prior.

>> Now you've got priors and now I guess. it's uh it's a hot prowl. So, B&E. Oh, >> it's a hot It's a first-degree burglary. >> First-degree burglary. Yeah. >> So, I guess you go to county for. booking, but you were not going to stay. in county. >> No. No. This was a I go into county uh. until we, you know, sentencing and. everything and then it's off to prison. Uh you get a little bit of time served. from your time in county. Off to prison.

before you go to prison, you're in. county and um. just talk a little bit about that. because I remember there was a there was. a dude in there who gave you advice that. was kind of interesting cuz there's also. there's the fear of prison and you're. going through all these places but. there's also a weird brotherhood and. camaraderie and kind of looking out for. each other sometimes. >> Yeah. >> And this guy gave you advice. It was I. thought was very strange but it worked. out. >> Yeah. Maybe I was I mean I was 22 at the.

time so I I looked like a pup. >> Yeah. >> And uh yeah, somebody took sympathy on. me and and just like, "Hey, you're going. to go to prison. >> Here's here's some rules." You know, they're pretty basic rules. And I'll. paraphrase what's in the book. I'll try. to keep it, >> you know, take your time politically. correct, but it was well, you know, don't mess with uh gambling. Mhm. >> Uh, don't mess with the gays. That's not.

the word he used. >> No, hold on a second. I think that. advice is before you go in to falsome. I'm talking about the guy who said. you're going to get a plea deal. Take. it. >> Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Sorry. Sorry. So, yes. Um, I'm going to get a. plea deal. Absolutely. Take it. Don't. fight it because if you don't, you will. do end up doing a lot more time. Um, >> so he says, "Go in there, be cool.". Yeah. >> And you'll get out. >> Yep. Just take take your time. There's. no way fighting this. You're you're. going to prison. Like, and you know, I.

knew that. Uh, and we were looking at. it. I got the mids sentence. So, I got. everything he said I was going to get. >> What'd you get? >> I got I got four years. But you do, too. >> How did you feel when you turned around. at the courthouse and saw mom and dad. sitting there? >> Horrible. It was the worst feeling of my. life. looking at your parents uh in the face. after you get sentenced to four years in. prison and uh they adopted you, they. raised you.

>> Did your father look at you? >> Uh. yeah, it was it was. pretty shameful. It they look crushed. They look crushed. >> Yeah, because they stood by you through. all this. But it was uh yeah, that was. tough, man. That was uh not not good. And uh then getting in that bus and uh. >> you're on the bus for hours and hours. >> hours.

and like shackled up. >> It's just like what you think is in the. movie is how this is just as bad as you. think it is is how this is. And. when did you find out you were going to. going to Old Fossome? You're going to. the You're going to the Johnny Cash. >> Yeah, I got ahead of that. Sorry. Um it. was uh. >> cuz you're not supposed to go there, I. don't think. >> No, no, no. Um they were doing something. they shouldn't have been doing, but it's. due to overcrowding, so I stayed Donovan. was a receiving facility in San Diego. I.

got stuck there for 4 months. You. usually stay there for like a month and. they farm you out. Um, I was a level. two, so not considered, even though, um, first-degree burglary is considered. a violent crime, I was not considered. violent in the sense of armed robber or. murder or rape or any of the horrible. ones. Uh, those are level three, level. four. So, I find out I'm going to fulsum and. there's two folsams. There's new folsome.

at the time. There still is. >> Is that first facility? Is that Elcohone. >> Donovan? So it's uh it's east of Elco. It's like in Otai Mesa. >> No, but Elcohone was a facility you were. in, right? >> So Elcohone was a county jail I was in. Yeah. Elcohone was that's the one where. there was the breakout. >> Oh yeah. You were there for the. breakout. >> Quick little side story here. >> So there's a the biggest building in. Elcohone, California, which is the box, which is uh which I mean that's what you. know uh and it's and it's in the eastern.

part of of San Diego. So, it's not Well, probably all the houses are are. million-dollar houses that are now, but. at the time wasn't looked at as the. nicest place in the world. So, the toss. building was the jail. And apparently. the contractor like cut a cut some. corners and didn't reinforce the walls. with whatever they're supposed to. reinforce with concrete or steel or. whatever. So, it was just stucco and. framing. >> Oh, no. >> And somebody figured it out. >> Someone just knocked on it and said, "That feels pretty hollow.". >> Yeah. Yeah. Pretty hollow. So, let's. let's break off the bottom of our bunk.

and just punch a hole in it. And you can. look it up. It was in the '8s, the big. breakout that got it closed. I was. there. >> You saw and you saw them escaping, right? Yeah. >> Did you think, hey, I'm going to get in. on that? >> Uh, I thought about it for a second and. [clears throat] I'm like, well, for one, that's a long way down. >> Yeah. >> Uh, and I'm like, no, I'm just going to. going to do my thing. That was that was. the first time around. So, I'm glad I. did that, you know. I'm glad I did. I. >> uh Listen, caught everybody, didn't. they? >> They caught everybody and one of the. guys busted his leg cuz they did the.

whole tying the sheets together crap. like Yeah, they did cuz it was up there. Yeah. >> You know, it was like I can't remember. the exact amount of stories, but it was. at least five, >> right? And they caught everybody. >> Mhm. >> And then they shut down the jail. The. problem was they locked us down after. that for for two weeks and they weren't. feeding us all the time. >> So, what does lockdown really mean? Locked uh lockdown is you are in your. cell. You don't get out. >> without with with one SI. >> Uh no, with like six. >> So you're there with six guys for weeks.

>> being fed through the bars. >> Through the bars. >> One toilet. >> Supervised shower. Like once we I think. we got two, right? Supervised shower. >> Oh, it's just rank. >> It was rank. So we were I was I remember. eating ketchup packets because that's. all I had to eat. And we had Uno. >> You You just played Uno. You. >> just played Uno. God. >> and had one book I think one book. between it us like it was terrible. It. was terrible. >> At least it wasn't magic. You don't do. that, >> right? [laughter]. Could always be worse.

>> Uh but yeah, so uh the on the prison. side. >> Yeah. >> Uh go to Folsam and we find out that uh. they're doing this transition thing. So. they're turning old Folsam into a level. two and they're removing all the level. four guys and they're putting them up to. Pelican Bay. And the level four guys are. the hardcore. >> They're murderers, rapists, >> and they're going to throw you pups in. with them. >> Worst of the worst. And they did. And. they did. Yeah. So, we had level twos in. with level fours, which is you're just.

not supposed to do that. Um because the. la the last thing a guy with a life. sentence wants to hear is uh the the. stories from a guy who's going to get. out in a couple years. That's a recipe. for disaster. Well, you're walking in um. shackles, chains, and you you've got. your long hair. >> Yep. >> And I guess is that your first prison. taunt? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> This is just like the movies, man. >> And in Donovan, never really got any. shit. I think everybody in the receiving.

part is just kind of like. pins and needles waiting to figure out. where going to go. >> So, uh and it's way more supervised. Um, it's like max max max there for because. because you are mixing in all the levels. because but it's it's you know you spend. most of your time in your cell. It's not. a ton of yard time. Uh, and I never. spent much time in the yard. But yeah, when I walk into Folsam, got my. beautiful long blonde hair and uh, shows. you how much I've aged. And uh, yeah,

guy goes, "Hey Goldilocks, you want my. sack lunch?" Hey, [laughter]. I'm like, I need to cut my hair, you. know? Uh, and it was right when I w So, I knew it was to me, by the way, like. I'm I They were of course they were they. had us in a line and then we're feeding. them in and like there's this big just. wall of cells. >> How you're terrified. And now you go up. to 11. >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh 12 because.

>> like beyond terrified. And like it. doesn't really stop. >> But it doesn't stop. >> Oh, it's balls. your balls. >> No. Okay. Um, so now you're going. through the rules that you're that. someone told you here. You're go you're. going gladiator school as you called it. Oh god, which it was. Uh, so now you're. going through the rules, right? And you. got to get rid of the hair. >> Got to get rid of the hair. Uh, >> and what are some of the rules you're. thinking as you're as you're. >> So the rules I was told I was referring. to earlier are do not gamble. Do not.

mess with gays. No problem. I no. interest in in those. >> Just be polite and leave them alone. >> Do not do drugs. Do not mess with any. drugs. Um and at that point in my life, I'm like, you know what? I'm not going. to mess with any drugs. I don't I've I. had already decided like if I survive. this. I'm done. I cannot do this. And. then um do not snitch no matter what. And if you're going to fight, fight. You. have to fight. You can't back down from.

a fight, >> right? Don't Don't start trouble. Don't. take it. >> But don't take it. Yep. But the most. important one of of them all is don't. snitch. >> or you will die, >> Bobby. >> Yep. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, um. I don't mean to drag it out, but it's. fascinating. >> It's okay. >> So, sack lunch, how do you how do you get a you have to. get your hair cut in like 30 yard? You. have 30 yards to solve this problem. >> immediately. It was for a pack of.

smokes. It was a terrible haircut, but. it did the job. It's like, >> didn't a guard help you? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Help you grab scissors or something? >> Yeah. Yeah. So, it's it's I mean, they. there is some humanity in there, right? Like they see this little pup and it's. like this guy's going to get shredded in. here. So, that's that's my best guess. But, I got I got my haircut. I got help. Um, guards aren't always helpful, though.

Okay. Just keep that in mind. They're. they're they're humans, so there's some. good ones and there's some pieces of. crap in there. And uh I spend the next. [clears throat] I'm I'm behind the wall. for a good year, right? So um I'm. >> Well, one of the rules was don't go to. the yard, don't go to the gym. >> Yeah. Yeah. Which I did not do. But. there were sometimes that you had to get. away from your first cellmate because he. I mean when you land in the room with.

him, how how does that go down? >> Oh, it's bad. It's bad. >> What's up with Kyle? What's. >> Yeah, he's he's double murderer. He's a. piece of crap. Um. >> what do he look like? >> Um. he was a just a like a kind of a flabby. but big white dude. Uh it's um brown. hair, little grayish. Uh, but he was not. old. He was not that old. >> I'm just trying to see feel how imposing. he is for bigger than me. >> He's bigger than me for sure. >> So, how's that first meeting go?

>> Uh, scared to death, you know, and he's. he just gives me the rules and pretty. much tells me, you know, I don't want to. hear from you, [laughter] you know. Um, he has this TV and and I'm like, well, maybe I could just uh wait this one out. I But it just it didn't work out that. Oh, he he didn't like He's a level four. this guy. >> He's a level four. >> and he doesn't want to hear about you. getting out in two. >> Nope. Nope. So, I was really good at. being quiet when I needed to be.

>> What were you doing to kill time? >> Uh to kill mostly reading books. >> cuz there was another rule about staying. sane, wasn't there? >> Yeah. >> What was that? >> Oh, the uh. >> find a routine. >> Yes. Find Okay. Yes. >> Stick to it. So the thing about. the the best advice I heard is and like. people do this in prison all the time so. I didn't invent it. This is just passed. down is find a routine. You get up at. the same time you kind of do the same. things every day and it what it does is.

it helps you feel accomplished because. we as humans need to feel some. accomplishment. So, I I found a little. routine that worked in Behind the Wall. and then when I when I went on and uh it. really helps the time go faster. It. keeps you busy so you're not sitting. there. You need to have that routine so. you're not sitting there just tripping. all the time. >> You talk about how Kyle was. like mentally torturing you this whole. time. What was What was he doing? Cuz he. wasn't physically abusing you. >> No, he was just always What was he Cuz.

you write about how it was just. constant. He was just always just. messing with you. >> Always messing with my head. Always. >> um. he would uh. he would always question uh like. everything I was doing like what are you. reading? What's your problem? He would. never let me have peace, right? Cuz I. would try to mind my own business and. stay there. And he'd always try to start. some weird conversation that would go to. a weird place and ask me weird questions.

and then bring up like his crimes, you. know, and what he did. >> And you knew he was just trying to. torture me. >> Yep. Trying to fuck with me all the. time. Uh and and it then he'd be nice a. little while and then it would flip, >> you know. Uh but we you bring up the. pruno, right? We can. >> talk about uh when. >> Go ahead. I don't want to get too far. ahead, but. >> No, I know when we're going to take our. break. >> Oh, yeah. So, >> gone. [clears throat].

>> Uh the he's he was making some pruno and. hiding it and he was gone and the guard. is the guards are coming in to do uh to. do an inspection and I'm I'm there cuz I. don't go out very much. >> Right. >> So, I dumped it. >> You dumped his pruno. >> Yep. >> Did you know that decision? You did you. how long Well, you know what you're. doing. You know you're going to have to. deal with this. >> Yeah. >> But you figure what you're saving him.

>> or are you like I'm going to this is got. going to go sideways. >> This is this at my decision-m at the. time was not really even to cover it was. cover both of our asses, right? But it. was. >> because you were going. >> Yeah. Because I'm there so I'm going to. get caught with it and he's the cellmate. so he's going to get busted too. And. there's all this stuff going through my. head where oh, you know, you think about. the snitching thing, right? It's going. to make me either way look like a. snitch. So, I'm like, >> and you're watching them toss cells, getting closer as you're doing this.

>> So, I'm like, I'm going to dump this. stuff. And. >> and Kyle, by the way, is out in the yard. lifting weights. >> Yeah. Lifting weights. Lifting weights. So, uh, I got rid of it and it's it's. gone by the time the guards there. I. saved his ass. My Well, his ass. >> Yeah, >> his ass. [clears throat]. uh wasn't exactly grateful about that at. all. Um and wanted me to repay whatever. it was owed uh whatever that value of. that pruno was. Um and uh and did not.

let me forget it. >> So. >> ever. >> He wanted you to put uh money in his. account, right? >> Money on his books. >> Money on his books. 20 bucks for the. pruno. I want it. Uh you did it. Yep. >> And thought it was good. And I don't. know how soon after that, but he said, "I need 20 bucks.". >> Yeah. It it it it just became the, you. know, I need 20 more. And then once you.

capitulate a little bit, you know, that's just the way it is. And that's. that's this is part of like don't be a. bitch. >> That's right. >> Right. This is part of don't be a bitch. And I. >> I should have said fuck you, you know, at that point and probably fought at. that point. Well, you didn't give him 20. more, right? >> No. No. And it And it got worse. >> It gets worse. And um. you get back to the cell and he's going. through your stuff. >> Yep. >> What's he doing? >> He's going through mom's uh.

my letters. He's going through my. letters. >> And this whole time parents are. supporting you. They're putting money on. your books. You're covered. You have. support from the family. This guy's got. nothing. He hates you. >> He hates everything about me. He hates. the books I read. I mean, like, he's g. he gave me shit for books I read. >> He wanted you to fight. >> Oh, he's been trying to taunt me to. fight the whole time. And um well, he. finally got what he wanted. So, uh he.

he's going through my letters. Uh my. parents and I, by the way, are. contacting and they're, you know, they're sending me like little care. packages and making sure I'm okay. They're worried to death because they. know I'm in this fullome prison. So, they're trying to work outside with a. couple of other people trying to figure. out what the fuck's going on. Right. Um, to no avail, by the way. Right. And, uh, yeah. He's like, I I like your. mom's handwriting. [clears throat]. I like your mom's handwriting.

>> Like, I want to write your mom. And I. just fucking lost my shit. >> Absolutely lost my shit right now. >> He He demands you to tell your mom to. start writing him as well. Mhm. >> And now. um you feel it. You feel all men feel. this. Things go quiet. You hear the boom. boom in your ears. >> and. you're not going to take it anymore. >> No. To hell with it. whatever happens after. this like this is and and and it had.

been building up like you said like just. with the constant like poking and some. of it would just you know in isolation. it wouldn't be that bad but when you're. living think of the worst roommate. you've ever had but he's also a murderer. [laughter]. >> right. >> that's what it is a guy who like steals. your food or you know like or I don't. want to get too crass in there just when. you're in a cell with somebody and. they're going to the B. It's just the. worst. It's the worst. And uh.

>> so you the blood's in your ears and uh. >> everything's going. >> and it's going to go down. So we're. going to take a quick break. >> Yeah. >> We'll find out how you handled it. >> Okay. >> Be right back. >> It's it's the standoff now. >> Okay. >> Not going to take anymore. He's going. >> Mama's not going to write him a letter, right? >> No. No. Over my dead body. >> Mhm. >> So And that's where where I was at. >> Had a little walkman. Yep. >> Yep. Because we were you were allowed. like uh believe it or not, even in Max.

Prison, you can have a TV. You can have. a Walkman, you know. Um. >> you were getting comics and stuff. >> Yeah, you can get comics and books. >> Uh and and cigarettes and stuff. They don't allow people to smoke in. prison anymore. I don't That sounds. terrible. >> I don't know why would they would do. that. Smoke. >> For the safety of the guards. Oh god. Uh, so yeah, I I. go hysterically off on that. So it's not. like some heroic moment, you know,

Avengers Assemble, you know. No, no, it. was. >> this this was fight orflight panic. >> Fighter flight panic, spazzy fighting. Uh, think um, uh, Ralphing A Christmas. Story, you know, like. >> toe to toe. Could you take this guy? Um, I mean I did. [laughter] So, >> well, how did you I mean. >> I had Well, I I I had a a Walkman in my.

hand and I bashed his face in. >> So, >> it's a very Gen X with a Sony product. Very Gen X. >> Well, it was what was in my hand at the. time. >> You bashed his face in. >> I bashed his face in and bashed it in. pretty good. And. >> did he go down? >> Yeah, he went down. >> Down and out. >> Down and out. um blood everywhere and. I'm like I'm going to the hole. >> I was just gonna ask the adrenaline. comes down and you know you're going to. the hole. >> I'm screwed. I'm going to the hole. I'm. going to get more time on my.

>> just what he wanted. >> Yep. And uh that didn't happen which is. insane. Right. So uh I I did a little. time but as far as uh getting extra time. added to my sentence doesn't happen. Why. not? >> Doesn't happen. >> Why not the hole? Where'd you go? >> It's a mis It's a Well, it's a mystery. Why? Uh because my biggest concern at. the time was it's uh.

am I are they going to think I snitched? That was that was my biggest concern. Um, so, uh, my guess is a the guards knew. what was going on or another and I never. knew the answer to this at all, but it. just kind of got a new cellmate, you. know, got a new cellmate. Little crazy. still, but not as. >> but not violent. Not violent. Yeah. >> Uh, did you ever run into that guy. again? >> No.

Never did. >> It probably was. [snorts]. Someone was like, "We got to get these. tier twos out of here, man.". >> No. And he was supposed to go to Pelican. Bay anyway. Like he was like all the. level fours were supposed to go to to. Pelican Bay, >> right? They're still kind of going. through that transition. >> Y. >> So you get placed with with a new. cellmate and he's tier two, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So are you able to relax? relax a. little bit and then um you know I took a. a printing class in there and I never. really went to the yard or did anything.

after that and then it was finally over. uh when I went to uh the minimum. security part of. >> Well, hang on a second. He was this guy. was a big part of your recovery. >> I'm getting way ahead of myself. So. before I go, who was he? >> Uh he's violent. What What was he What. was he like? Uh he was actually a really. like a nice guy. He was a nice guy. >> There are nice guys in there. Believe. me. >> Of course there are. I believe it. >> Yeah. I mean just made a bunch of.

mistakes in his life like I did. >> They only put the ones that get caught. in there. >> And uh me needing to get out of the of. the of the cell like and I didn't really. want to go to church. I tried it a. couple times and it really didn't do it. well. >> Where did church come from? Why why were. you even thinking about church? I I I. needed to get out of the cell for one, but I also needed to not come back here. like. >> Well, and and I was. >> Didn't he tell you? >> Yes. >> Here are here are some things you can do. to make this go a little easier for.

yourself. >> Two options, right? Church. >> and meetings. >> Yep. >> So, what happens? >> Uh church doesn't work for me. >> Um and he was a church religious guy. >> Yeah. Yeah. He was a religious religious. guy. and I um started going to the. meetings uh and it wasn't like. >> and this is a. >> yeah this is aa. um they did do na ones in there but I. just. >> gravitated to the AA and uh the reason. and and it's the same re reason I.

gravitated to it outside is there's just. more time. >> in AA you could still the principles are. still the same people are talking about. alcohol I could just I could just apply. it to drugs and it's fine so as it. starts kicking in I go to these meetings. >> and it kicks in for the first time, right? Cuz you've been through crash. You've been through meetings. It didn't. take you. It didn't take. Now it finally. starts to take cuz you didn't go to. those meetings initially for any other. reason than to just make it easier in.

inside, right? Or you said, "I'm going. to get clean now. I'm going to share.". >> It was just. >> self-preservation. >> Self-preservation. I I wish it was. something bigger than that, but it. started. That's when it started kicking. in like oh and you know when you're in. the meeting and you're hearing people. tell the stories and like half the. people in those meetings were there just. to get out of their cell. >> Mhm. But the guy leading the meeting, you know, from H&I hospitals and. institutions from AA, they're there.

because they're serious, right? And. especially to volunteer. Takes a special. kind of person to volunteer for H&I to. want to go inside a prison. >> Takes a very good person to do that. better than I am. >> Yeah. >> When did it click? What was the What was. the conversation? What was going around. the circle. >> when it suddenly switched? >> It started clicking. It it was just. through through time, but um just. hearing over and over again that like. life can get better, like it's not.

necessarily over, you know, I don't know. if I fully believed it at the time, but. it started clicking. really just over time. Uh and and it. stayed with me. I'm not going to say I. was like ready to be a sober warrior at. that point, but I had decided, like I. told you um earlier on, like I do not. want to come back here. This is. horrifying. So the best way to describe. prison is um. uh it is really it is boredom uh.

occasionally interrupted by moments of. terror. just complete terror but there's always. an underlying like you sleeping with one. eye open. You got to worry about. absolutely everything. If somebody gives. you a dirty look in there, it means. something and that's probably going to, you know, cuz you are trapped with these. people and that will probably come to a. head at some point and that's always. rolling around in the back of your head. >> But once again, >> Mhm.

>> some people are looking out for you. Always have a routine so you don't go. crazy. >> And then this new cellmate says you need. a plan. >> You need a plan. >> What does he mean by that? Um, you need. to plan for life. Like, you can't just. get out and think. everything's going to be okay. And this. is something like a father would tell a. kid, right? You need to have a plan. And. >> what's your what's your plan? >> And my plan was really simple. uh it to.

get sober to get a job uh and then. implement uh I don't think I've verbally. said this but the the or or implement. the routine. >> in in life. So that routine I was. learning in prison I actually applied it. afterwards and it was really fucking. helpful. It was really helpful. >> Um. >> what kind of routine was it? What was. just the dayto-day that. >> So the dayto day this carried on from. from when I went on uh to to uh to the.

minimum security, >> right? You got moved finally. >> Yeah, I got moved finally. And in. minimum security, I would uh I was doing. a lot of working out. Uh I was either. playing raetball because we had rack. handball. Uh we had this big track you. can walk or run laps on. And it and I also had a job. I had this. crazy job that taught me how to work. And it like this is where the.

rehabilitation of prison actually worked. on one person. Um so I had this this gig. at uh procurement in the procurement. office. >> What does that mean? >> Uh basically we did all the purchasing. >> Okay. >> For uh the prison particularly in my. area was just writing up all the drug. orders. which is funny, >> right? You're dealing drugs again. >> So, I'm I'm writing up all the drug. orders because the new Folsam wing had a. psychiatric wing. So, I was uh doing all.

the drug orders for them. >> and I worked for a lady I should say her. real name. >> No, no, no. >> Uh [laughter] it's funny. She was She. always wore purple. She always wore. freaking purple. Um and uh I was her. little boy toy, by the way. Like she. she's like, "Oops, I dropped something.". thing, you know, like [laughter] yeah, stuff like that. >> Uh I I used to be young and pretty, >> but um yeah, it was it was get up get up. 5:30 in the morning, get my breakfast,

uh either walk a lap before I go to work. or walk two laps before I go to work, go. to work, come back, go play some. raetball or handball with the guys, and. it was just do that every day. >> Were you behaving at your job and all. that? You were. Yeah. >> Getting along with everybody. getting. along with everybody. >> Are you counting down the days now? >> Counting down the days. They're still. long. I mean, you know, they're still. like a year out. >> This is why you're so good at counting. George Martin's days to the. >> Uhhuh. Yeah. >> You're you you're counting days. That's.

what you do. >> I do. That's what I do. [laughter] I. keep track, George. >> Uh so yeah. And. >> what are the last few days like Isn't. it, you know, 60, 59, 50? I mean, it's. torture. >> It's torture, dude. is absolute torture. and the anxiety of am I going to fuck up. again? >> Right. Is it am I really getting out? >> Yeah. Is something Is there going to. >> What's going to happen? >> What's going to happen? You know that. that and that really starts messing with.

you towards the end. >> I bet it does. >> Like what if some charge is found? You. know, cuz listen, I didn't get caught. for everything I did. >> Of course not. >> Yeah. >> Eight, seven, six. You still parents are. still supporting you? >> Parents are still supporting me. I'm on. my routine. I'm starting to like lose it. a little bit towards the end though. I'm. starting to get away and just anxiety. Just pure anxiety. >> How did you cope? >> Um, not well. I uh I I didn't sleep very. much. Uh, but I tried to work out more.

So, and by workout I mean just exercise, do some sort of like uh you know, but it. was obsessive, right? It got really. obsessive, but it was like, you know, running laps. or or playing raetball or playing it by. myself. So, this is a very different. facility than you're coming from. It had. to feel like vacation. >> It it it did like we'd um Yeah, we there. was like a little garden where we grew. chili peppers. Um we were we'd sit out. and tan. It's it's it's near Sacramento.

It's right near Fulsome Lake. >> You were supposed to be there the whole. time? >> Yes. I was not supposed to be behind the. wall at all ever. and uh or maybe for a. couple weeks. >> Did you run into other tier twos at at. like what the hell? That was terrible. >> That sucked. Um but for the for the. level twos, I I had a usually had more. time than they did. So, they were all. getting out before me, which kind of.

sucked, but watching them. Hey, have. fun, buddy. >> But yeah, like we. >> But you weren't a dick about it. You. already saw what how that works. >> No, no, not at all. Leave them alone. Yeah. Exactly. [laughter]. Exactly. But then we uh Yeah. We I mean. >> we'd we'd have uh this thing called. spreads where you're we'd make a bunch. of food. We'd steal some food out of the. kitchen or the the cook would just give. us some food and we'd make this big. things of ramen and chop every piece of. meat we could figure out. And it was. just this gobbledygook of of stew with.

top ramen that we that was our like. party night. We watched football. And. yeah, I was kind of smoked cigarettes. and it, you know, >> when you heard like Bola Brown at King's. Landing, you're like, "Oh, I have Ba. Brown.". >> Yeah. >> Singer Stew. >> Yeah. [laughter]. >> So, the day finally comes. >> Day finally comes and my parents pick me. up and they I So, I go out the main gate. of Folsam. >> There was a beat I liked in your book. about the guard who who came to get you.

cuz he was the same guard who. >> the badass guard who let you in. Yeah. Yeah, >> he was still there. >> Y. >> little smile in his eyes. >> Yeah, >> you did it, kid. >> Yeah, you made it. >> You made it. >> You made it. And um it was uh I wish I. could bottle like the feeling I had that. day because I wanted for nothing. No. material thing had any a value to me. It. was it was pure freedom. So that was the. first day I I understood what like.

liberty and freedom are is. It's. something I completely took for granted. and never thought about as a kid. >> How soon How soon did it kick in? >> Uh like the minute I walked out. >> and just open sky. >> Open sky, no walls, my mom and dad. smiling to see me. >> and uh you know, you just you don't have. to sign very much paperwork. You just. sign a couple things and get your stuff. back. Got my got my clothes back. that I went in on and I'm like, "Wow, I.

actually lost weight in here, [laughter]. you know." So, >> uh, >> yeah, you weren't doing well for a while. in there. >> No, no, I was not. >> not doing well and I got out pretty much. in shape. But yeah, so back to that. feeling of gratitude, just pure. gratitude of like I am free. My life. isn't over. Because I I was convinced. for the longest time, even before I went. into prison, we talked about it earlier, that my life was just over. >> Sure. >> Just it's done. Like, we're going to.

play it out. It's going to be a sad, pathetic ending. >> Mhm. >> Um and I'm like, "Wow, I have a chance. to do this and I don't want for a bunch. I don't have any lofty goals." Um. >> just one. Don't go back in there. >> Don't go back in. >> And don't go back in. >> Yeah. So, I had the best meal of my. life, which was uh you know, an omelette. at Denny's. And. >> Denny's, I mean, you're home. It was. It's America. >> Greatest food. Greatest meal I've ever.

had. [laughter]. And Yeah. And. >> but what's the conversation like at at. that breakfast? >> Are we Are we laughing? We're crying. >> We're laughing. Uh we're talking about. just what's ahead. You know, my dad was. not like a real sentimental guy, so we. were just like, "Yeah, we talk about the. Chargers and Padres's. >> and how crappy they were.". >> Yeah. Yeah. [clears throat] Yeah. And uh. and it's funny because it's right before. they they went for their first Super. Bowl. >> Oh, that's right. Early. >> Yeah. But there were still like Bobby.

Ross had come around and they've been to. the playoffs for the first time in a. long time. So, we had stuff to talk. about, but it was really light, right? >> Um and you know, they were pretty uh a. matterof factly like you got to find a. job. you can't like stay with us. forever. I'm like, "Okay, fair.". >> No talking back, no attitude. >> Nope. >> Just uh I was being a a good kid, right? And uh with a with a new lease on life. and a new attitude towards life and uh. waking up every morning was freaking. great. I like I could just and I'd do.

things like just take a walk and ride my. bike to the beach, you know, uh in. between looking for a job. But yeah, I I. didn't need any money. Didn't need any. of that stuff. I had a place to stay, but eventually I would I would need that. money. >> Were you craving drugs? >> No. >> Booze, anything? >> No. Went to started going to meetings. immediately. >> You did? >> Yeah. Immediately. Uh there was no none. of that. And wasn't seeking out my old. friends. That that's that's usually what.

gets any addict in trouble, especially. after they get out of a rehab or. anything. It's that's what I got in. trouble is like I immediately sought out. my old friends which means let's party. I did not I I didn't let anybody know I. was back. Didn't know if anybody knew I. was back or gone or anything and just. kind of did my own thing. hung out with. my parents and uh eventually contacted a. couple of friends that I knew who were. outside of the like an old childhood.

friend. and he eventually gave me a job. >> Well, before that you said don't run. into old friends but you did. >> I did. >> What happened? >> Um it was sad. Uh but uh I I. >> um. >> I'm also talking about that meeting. >> Oh, okay. >> Where people from the neighborhood were. there. >> Yeah. Yeah. when uh that was kind of. surprising to when we ran into each. other. >> What happened? Who was there? >> Um I'm trying not to use uh I had a.

couple of older friends at Don Juan. Cool. >> Um seeing ball sack there. >> So these are old guys these part you. partied with drugs. >> It was a shock but I'm sure they were. just as shocked seeing me. >> Were you frightened a little bit like oh. no relapse. Here we go. um. at that meeting. Yeah, that's always. that I mean the fear is always in there. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. But um it. was also.

now that I look back on it a little. inspiring to see some of the old. >> of course. >> old people come through and and make it. And we you know there's there's some I. ended up staying friends with forever, you know, and uh to this day uh some who. didn't make it. But uh yeah that like. seeing that that was like I guess the. first test I guess you know um. >> and one of those he one of those guys. became your first sponsor. >> Yeah. >> Did you know about sponsorship at that.

time? >> I did. I just never like really took it. seriously. Right. >> Eventually you learn how important it is. >> and then you learn how absolutely. necessary. it is. >> So he was clean a while. Tell me about. that conversation. Um, it was uh I mean. it he he he's knew what I've been. through, right? And then like more than. anybody else. I I honestly don't know if. it was the best [laughter] the best. choice for sponsor to be honest with. you. >> Maybe not. >> Maybe not. But um.

it's I just didn't want to go back. It. it was it was really simple, you know. Um I was I I didn't want to die. I. didn't want to die. So, he asked you to make a commitment. >> Mhm. >> And you agreed to it. >> Yes. >> Did you keep your word? >> Uh to my commitments of. >> to him. >> Uh. >> I I mean I know how it works. You're there for each other. Yes. Pick.

up the phone. You show up. You do the. work. >> You come back tomorrow. You call. Did. you do all that stuff? Uh I did all that. stuff in the beginning and uh I did it. when I relapsed too. >> Uh the thing and. like I don't want to get ahead with the. relapse but uh there is there's a. commitment you need to make uh that um. >> I'm just trying to to stress what a big. decision it is once you take on become a. sponsy it's it's a big deal. >> It is um usually it's 90 meetings in 90.

days. Um, and you have to. write gratitude lists. Like both. sponsors maybe do it. One was way more. hardcore than the other. So, um, you. have to do a ton of homework. You have. to meet, you have to, uh, basically do. your own book study with you. So, we sit. down and we go over chapters of the. book. And this is on top of going to. meetings that are that are book because. there are booksp specific meetings. Yep.

Where you just go through the chapters. Yep. >> Um, >> and you're now like working the steps. and doing. >> working the steps and it's not just. once. So I my my I thought it was just. once you did the steps. Now you just. recycle and keep going through and. through until it really gets ingrained. >> Well, step four is never over, is it? >> Never over. >> That's uh inventory. >> Yes, the personal inventory. And uh. we're always making. >> new mistakes, right? And uh it's it's.

work that's never done. >> That's a very important step is that. self-awareness. >> Yeah. >> So you're working the program, things. going good, you get a job. >> Mhm. >> At the warehouse. >> At the warehouse. >> How's that How's that first day feel? >> Um it's crazy. Uh. >> the warehouse is um what? Music, >> videos. That's a West Coast. I'm from. New York. I had never heard of it. >> Okay. Yeah, the warehouse is Yeah, it's. um it's a record store.

>> Mhm. >> Uh that's also a video store. >> This is perfect for you cuz you're a pop. culture junkie going in, right? >> Yes. So. >> So are you like this is this is perfect? >> It's heaven. >> Yeah, >> it's absolute heaven. And I've always. wanted Well, I've worked at the. warehouse before in the past. >> Oh, you did? >> I did, but for like I never worked very. anywhere along cuz I was a drug addict. So this was like, well, now that I know. how to have this thing called a work. ethic from prison, I I I learned that. from prison. I going to go getting up at. 5 in the morning every day going to.

work. >> Uh it was it was amazing working there. Uh pay wasn't great, but who cares? It. was enough to. >> Your parents had to be so proud. >> Yeah. >> That you were going in every day. >> I I think they were probably always. waiting for. >> always waiting. >> Always waiting. And uh it it it didn't. happen. like I I went to work, uh took. extra shifts, had tons of fun, met a. bunch of friends there, uh had had some. rough times, you know, like there. there's still the adapting I had to get. used to.

>> Yeah, there is that story. I. >> So, um the altercation. >> Yeah. I just some old guy uh and I got. into it and. >> Well, tease it out. He walks in, he's. waving the thing around. >> He's waving a video around, right? And. uh I he's giving me a bunch of attitude. >> like what. >> uh it was over uh. a return. and it was late or something. It was.

some violation I whatever. Um and and. once he started getting disrespectful to. me and he was angry at me I I the the. >> the prison defense mechanism comes in. So I feel like I'm being disrespected. So, this is like, you know, still early. on. This took me years to get rid of. this stuff because I was I was uh I. wasn't it wasn't like I was floating on. cloud9 the whole time I was out. I was. there was there's certain things that. would, you know, I guess trigger is lack.

of a better word. Uh trigger the defense. mechanisms from prison. Uh I definitely. had uh I I had trouble sleeping for if. you want to call it PTSD. Sure. I mean. for a decade I had trouble sleeping. No, it is PTSD. It's not. It is PTSD. That's. a thing that ex-cons have. >> You come out of war, you come out of. prison, you have PTSD. >> And you did. And so you felt you're. disrespected. What happened with the. guy? >> Uh I I shouted him down. And uh I had to.

get uh I almost. I I got written up and my friend had to, you know, the friend who gave me the. job. >> You didn't put hands on, right? >> No, no, no hands on. We were just. yelling. We were yelling at each other. pretty good. Like [laughter] this is. terrible customer service. >> It's horrible customer service because. like it's retail customers come in and. yell. You just go. >> yes sir I will do. It was really easy. Alls I had to do was. >> who cares? Just give him the tape. >> Just give him what he wanted and walk.

away. But I took it as a personal. So I. get uh written up and you know. >> but I love the conversation you have. with Don in the back room. >> Yeah. because he asked you what. happened, but it wasn't a casual thing. cuz he's like, "No, seriously, what's. going on?". >> Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't like what happened. with the uh. >> right. >> with the situation. It's like what's. going It was like an actual caring. >> cuz he's in the program. >> Mhm. And uh Yeah. >> What did you What did you say? >> Oh, I just I just told him exactly. I.

felt disrespected and it just everything. just clicked, you know. um my defense. mechanism. I just lost my shit, you. know, and it's just. and uh I it was it was understood, but. it was also said that like you this. cannot go on like gota. >> Did you get fired? >> Uh no, I got written up. >> Okay. >> I got written up, which was I should. have brought I should have been fired. >> H maybe. I don't know. >> Ah, he was going to fire me. He wasn't.

going to but like it I felt terrible. if. you did it again maybe. >> And the thing is like later on like me. and that old guy got along famously. after. >> Of course. [laughter] Of course. >> So I like I just treated him nice. >> Prison rules are actual rules of life. >> So and then he we actually got to the. point where like he'd come over and we'd. chitchat for 20 30 minutes while he's at. So it's like that's the cool part of the. story is uh we became like buds after.

that. >> Mutual respect. >> Yeah. and like it was way down the line. So I'm like, "You know what? I'm really. sorry I yelled at you that day. I was. having a bad day." He's like, "Don't. worry about it." Of course, he was a. sweet, sweet old guy. So yeah. Um it was. but that's that's where I also. recognized like. this might not be that easy. Like it. like you know you once you get past your. cloud nine and your your your euphoria, you know, there's there's the work that. has to be done. And uh I was I was super.

[snorts] angry like and resentful. >> Um. >> are you feeling the calling to go back. to drinking or drugs? >> Um not not at that time, but it it. >> that eventually does come. >> Uh. but I think that's just being fresh. being out of prison, right? And you. just, you know, you got your guard up. all the time. You don't need to have. your guard up. Plus, you know, prison. rules aren't real life rules. So if. somebody disrespects you, you don't like.

punch them in the face, >> right? [laughter]. >> You know, it's simple stuff like that. >> So what happened next after warehouse? >> After warehouse, um Oh, okay. So I meet uh first wife. >> Meet the first wife. >> Meet the first wife. Yeah. Uh yeah. >> And. >> yeah, she's So when you um when you meet. somebody in recovery, right? She was in. the program. >> She was in the program. Uh it's.

>> it's cool. >> Uh but. >> you understand each other. >> Yeah. Understand each other on that. level, but you also have to have like. more in common beyond that. >> And uh we we never really did. So. >> when did the fights start and why? >> Uh I mean it was it it it. was just later on and it was it wasn't. like a ton of them, you know. It was. just. I always. she I don't want to She's a nice person.

so I don't Yeah, she's a nice person. >> There's always two sides to a story. >> Yeah. And she had to put up with me, right? >> And uh long story short, I I was like I. was. I was still kind of a magpie. Um I was. still collecting stuff that she didn't. like. >> Like what? Comics. >> Comics. Yeah. just didn't like the. comics and toy collecting like at all. And uh Yeah. Yeah. And and it just. wasn't going to work out.

>> You guys are not getting along. And. along um dad gets sick. >> Dad gets sick. Dad um gets cancer. and uh. we kind we kind of like everything is. kind of kind of put to the side. We're. dealing with dad's cancer. >> How are you guys dealing with it? >> Um. >> how's mom taking it? mom's being a. caregiver and trying to be the strong. caregiver. And at the time we I you know. we thought there's a possibility he. could fight it off, right?

>> Um and but mom's my mom. had just been a caregiver for her mom. who died and then she had to be. immediately a caregiver for my dad. Uh. long story short on this one, he. um got colon cancer. it uh it went away. uh full remission and then it comes back. immediately and it's he's got uh weeks. to live. Weeks to live. Um gets into his.

stomach and. >> y. >> all this and uh. we have a a last our last like. conversation where he's like not just on. morphine. >> Yep. >> Um our last real conversation and he. sits me down. He's in the hospital and. uh the last thing he wants to talk to me. about is my relationship with my wife. and ally. >> because he sensed it a long time. >> Yeah. >> That it's that you're not happy. It's. not working. >> You're not happy. It's not working. >> So, what did he tell you?

>> Life is too short to be uh to be with. somebody you're not happy with, right? And you know, you deserve happiness. And. and we were like really tight. And we. rarely talked about like relationships. So, it was such a it was like, whoa, why. is he bringing this up? But he was right. He was right. And. again, no fault of hers, right? I I was. a massive pain in the ass. >> Of course. >> Yeah. And uh so dad passes away and that.

is just a huge change in my life. That's. like an anchor gone. >> Mhm. >> Uh and. at that point, I see that like as a as. like, you know what, it's just I need a. I need a change life. Um, I don't even. know if it's the best decision in the. world or not. And um, uh, I've reconnected with some friends, including Melissa. And. >> because you knew Melissa from back in. the day. >> Yeah, I've Melissa I've my uh, uh, my. wife Melissa I've known for 41 years. So.

we So she was at that Crystal Palace. She was partying there. >> So she's seen it all. >> She's seen it all. So we're friends. uh reconnected through classmates.com. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> So, um we we I get I get a divorce. Yeah. Um and move to San Francisco, move. away from Never thought I'd leave San. Diego. I love San Diego. Uh move up to. San Francisco. >> What attracted you to San Francisco? >> Um it was just for back then it was cool.

and I needed a I needed a change. I just. needed a change of scenery. Didn't want. to leave the state of California and I. didn't want to live in LA. [laughter]. So, San Francisco was the next best. choice. >> Well, I mean, you were weird in San. Diego. In San Francisco, you're home. Everybody's weird. >> Yeah, everybody's that's that's part of. it. You know, it's certainly changed for. San Diego now, but San Diego back then, it was pretty pretty much a normal town. >> Um, and San Francisco back then was a. different city than it is now.

>> Uh, but yeah, I was I was up there and, you know, I just I was uh selling auto. parts. So, I went from. from working at the warehouse to selling. auto parts. And uh I thought the reason. I bring that up is I like, well, this is. my life now, and I'm totally happy with. it. Like, I like this job. Uh I never. So, when you when you have realistic. expectations of, well, I was going to go. nowhere in life and die, but now I've. got this job because I had no skills.

When I walked out of prison, my one of. my biggest fears is I have no skills. >> Yes, you did. Yes, you did. Well, I. mean, >> you were organized. You You learned a. lot in prison. So, auto parts, but. you're still collecting comics and doing. your. >> Yeah. Still doing all that stuff, right? >> Melissa is cool with it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Like, totally cool with it. Oh, yeah. She has to be. No, I know. She's as much of a collector as I am. So, there you go. So, yeah, I got the. normal job and I'm super happy with it. I'm like, if this is the job I work on. at the rest of my life, I'm totally.

cool. Like, it makes enough money. I. like it enough. Um, but I always kept on like finding. something more, right? That's when the. comic shop comes up. We're in San I'm in. San Francisco and this is. before Melissa and I are married. Um, we. uh. >> But you're living together. >> Uh, yeah, we were living together and. like within a year I I bought the comic. store. It just it just landed in my lap. >> But how how did you make that decision? >> It was really.

quick and probably not smart. I mean, just suddenly it's available. You. >> Well, I'm working at Oakland Acura. >> Okay. >> And I hate working in Oakland. Like, I I. hate Oakland. Like, >> hate Oakland like a lot. So, and hate. going over that Bay Bridge every day. So, I'm looking for something. >> And I'm out lunch and I open the paper. and there is an ad for some comics for. sale. I answer the ad because I'm like,

well, I'm going to buy this big chunk of. comics. It It was It was affordable. And. I'm going to save it for when I open a. store someday in retirement. So, that. was my plan. >> You when you retire, we open a store. >> when I retire. >> Okay. >> So, when I'm making this uh deal with. the guy, the guy's all, well, I mean, there's a comic shop for sale right now. >> You want to buy it? >> And it just so happened to be the shop I. shopped at, the comic outpost. So, it. was my comic store. >> Wow.

>> I'm like, I'll just talk to the guy. I. never thought any of this would go down. We talk. We agree on a price. We go to a. pizza place, make a handshake deal. >> You guys had the money. >> Uh, I had the money. >> Okay. >> Had the money. Um, I post uh Yeah, post. divorce. Um, made a lot of money off the condo. We we. bought a condo for like next to nothing. and the housing market went crazy, >> right? >> So, >> so the money was there. >> Money was there. So, I bought the store. and uh and uh it was just like that. It.

was it was within two weeks I had to. quick read, half read um Small Business. for Dummies and then uh I was owning a. comic store which would was kind of was. like a lifelong dream. >> Did you did you feel like this is a. dream come true? >> Yes, at first. >> Yeah. And uh and it it always was it was. always a really fun job, but then you. know I always said to myself, if this. thing becomes a job, like if it starts. feeling like work, I'm out. Uh and it.

didn't for a long time. >> Well, you got into the to comic books as. an entrepreneur at a very good time in. in our culture. Very good time. >> Very lucky. >> because this is MCU is getting hot, right? Spider-Man's rebooted and it's. good. >> Yeah. So, so right. >> Nolan is reboots Batman and it's great. >> It's all Yeah, it's kind of weird how. the timing worked out. So, I took it. over in 2003. >> Kind of weird. You're the luckiest dude. I know. [laughter].

>> Yeah. I I um X-Men had come out in 99. Spider-Man 2 uh came out the year before. I opened my store. >> Right. Uh, and it's, yeah, we're just a. couple of years before Nolan starting. Batman and, uh, the MCU starting and, you know, in the meantime, there's like. Sin City came out and, you know, Hellboy. start and it's just creeping up. It's. doing better and better. It when I when. I got there, it was still like. recovering from post 911, post 90s.

stuff. >> Yeah. >> Not a lot of It was very specific. >> Batman Hush was the bestselling comic. Oof. >> So, it was out right when I started my. store. >> Uh, and then it just started revving up. The competition between Marvel and DC. got a lot more serious. >> Uh, >> that's good for you. >> Oh, it was great. In the in the. beginning, it was it was absolutely. great. And it was kind of a renaissance. time for comic books, for independent. books, too. Uh, and it was kind of the. last harrah of American comics now that.

I look back on it, which is kind of sad. It was. >> uh but uh the storytelling was getting. much better. The art was getting better. The comic book sales were going up. I. mean, >> what were the people like coming in and. out? >> It was normies. So like we got it it was. a Hollywood was bringing in a lot of. normies, but what helped was the comic. books were story driven. So, we still. had great writers like Mark Miller, uh, who were who were out there working. with, you know, either Wild Storm in the.

early days, but then they like Marvel. plucked him. >> and you Warren Ellis, Garnis and Grant. Morrison, >> you know, all these old Judge Dread. people uh, coming in and writing America. comics and kind of turning it on their. turning it upside down. Uh, >> you won best of the Bay. >> I did in 2009. >> Why? Why? Why? How did you differentiate. yourself? >> I Oh, so my this San Francisco is very. San Francisco, right? So, uh most of the.

comic shops are going to be um. independent book oriented, you know, because it's such a hippie independent. town. I'm like, I am going to be the. normie superhero family store. >> cuz that's the one thing that isn't. here. >> Weren't you drawing your own comics back. in the day? >> Oh god. Yeah. I don't Yes, I was. art. school. >> Uh I I I drew um we did what kind of. became the precursor to the book.

>> Mhm. >> Uh we did a a comic called Horror Show. and I did another com superhero comic. book. >> People don't know that you write and. draw. >> Uh no, they don't. [laughter] And and. I'm going to keep it that way. Well, not. anymore. But uh yes, >> not anymore. >> Yeah. I I did a superhero comic book. that I might revisit like after YouTube. Mhm. But yeah, I was I was drawing and. writing just for fun like no. expectations and I don't consider myself. anything. >> The store is growing and then. >> stores growing.

>> Then you get a certificate for video. production. >> Yeah. So um when uh we went best of the. bay in 2009, but this is like 2008 2009. >> Yeah. >> Economy is going to crap. So the store. is breaking even. >> Oh, right. >> Yeah. It's just breaking even. So, I. need I'm like I'm going to I want to do. something fun. uh possibly to to make some more money. I don't want to but we need to like. figure this out. So, I take a video. intensive course. Uh it's called a new.

media intensive course or digital video. intensive at San Francisco State. University. Uh it was 4 months. uh 10 to 12 hours a day, 6 days a week. >> Wow. And it's like basically film school. with no theory put into four months. >> That sounds awesome. >> Like all it was great. Great. First day. we had cameras in our hands. Second day. we're editing. Uh we learned how to. light a scene. Um we we learned how to. write a script. You know, this comes in. handy. We used a matlock script. I don't.

ever forget. Yeah. Uh and yeah, and it. was people who all worked in the. industry. >> and it's all practical. It was all. practical. So, by the end, all of us had. shot like four little short films. >> And how did this apply to the comic book. store? >> Um, we were able to I was able to like. shoot podcasts, do podcasts, do do ads. Uh, but it was always going to be like I. want to do a podcast and I want to do. some kind of live show. And I was. thinking we live streamed uh God, what.

was what did Joe Rogan used to use to. live stream on? >> Ustream. Ustream. We used Ustream. the. tiniest window. >> The tiniest window. So, we live streamed. in our store way back when uh during. free comic book day and 24-hour comic. book day where people were you you make. a comic in 24 hours. >> So, the store starts doing good again. and you kind of become a shit. You come. become the mayor mayor of the nerds, huh? >> Yeah. >> And um Ego Gary comes back.

>> Yeah. Big time. All goes to my head. >> Why? What happened? Um, stopped going to meetings. >> Why? >> Uh, >> you were cured. >> I was cur No, I was I mean. >> I mean what do you what's your rational. and what is. >> my rational say? I was too busy too busy. for me. >> Too busy. >> You know how that goes. >> Yeah. >> And what's the wife thinking? Doesn't. >> she's busy too. >> So she doesn't know you're missing.

meetings or. >> doesn't doesn't necessarily know. She's. she's like we both we had the two kids, right? So, um. >> and you're learning to get pretty good. at lying at this point, I would. >> Yeah. Very good. Yeah. >> Very good. So, uh say I'm going to. meetings when I'm not. >> Mhm. >> You know, so that was just a recipe for. destruction. >> So, it's going to your head and um. what's going down? >> Well, uh no sponsor, no meetings going. to my head. Uh things are going really. well at the store so that can mask a lot. of stuff. uh putting up a banner one.

day. Uh yeah, Superman Returns banner, >> which I still own. I will never get rid. of it now. >> What happened? >> Uh uh a ladder, a folding ladder. Um. flattens my thumb. Stupid injury. But my thumb was like. this thin. Flattens my thumb. They have. to. like drill a hole in the nail and the. and the blood comes up like Monty. Python. Uh but the um at the emergency. room because I had to drive myself there.

because my employee didn't know how to. drive. >> San Francisco. >> Uh yeah, San Francisco. Uh they they. gave me some Vicodin. >> Oo, Daddy Likey Viky. >> Yep. And it was pretty much off to the. races to that point. >> Yeah. You're suddenly in a great mood. and don't feel any pain. >> Yep. >> So you just get a script. >> Get a script. >> and you're just taken as prescribed. >> Yeah. It's normal at first. Then. the thing is when you when you have a. comic store, a lot of people offer you.

stuff, you know, and. >> like what? Advice. >> Advice. That's it. >> Um just through time, through I mean it. basically the the addict mind kicked in. again. Like absolutely kicked in again. >> They're coming in with Coke is what. they're doing. >> They're coming in with Coke. So it jumps. really quick. So it goes from like um. getting prescripts and at that time it. was the the Vicodin opiate epidemic. >> Really easy to get scripts. You just. make you could just say I sprain my. ankle and just my back hurt. Uh, and.

yeah, and then uh, you know, we I've. always been offered weed, you know, in. the store for trade or whatever. And a. guy just like one day just Yeah. comes. in, talk, offer some coke. I'm like, "Sure.". >> So, you go from saying no, though. >> Going from no. >> to let's go in the back and get dusty. >> Yeah. >> What's the What shifted? >> Um, I think the the relapse just kicked in. the the disease just kicked in at that.

point. Um the shifting point was. probably I mean obviously the not going. to meetings, not having a sponsor and. realizing that I had already relapsed. cuz for a minute I had it in my head. that I hadn't relapsed when I was when I. was taking the pills. >> What were you Oh, cuz it was just doctor. gave me. >> It was do the doctor gay. I was just. doing but I mean I had stopped doing the. prescribed amount so I just said fuck. it. And you weren't talking to your.

sponsor at all? >> Nope. >> Did you feel. ashamed or did you fail? >> Totally. Totally. And then that's what. that's what fed the addiction was uh the. shame behind it. And the the difference. this time was I was doing all of this in. solitude, right? >> She didn't know what was going on. >> She didn't know what was going on. >> You sure she didn't know? >> Well, I thought she didn't know. >> cuz I think they always know. >> They always know. We can um. fast forward to the Melissa method.

if you want. >> Oh, the Melissa method. Yeah. >> Because you're you're rel you're on and. off. There's the story of you going down. to ComicCon. >> Oh, yeah. >> If you want to tell that. Cool. >> So, Comic- Con, >> but you're basically out of control. >> completely. So, it goes it goes well. >> because a coke habit is pricey. >> It's it's very pricey [laughter]. and uh it's a progressive disease. Mhm. >> So when you when I quit, I'll use my eye. statements here. When I quit,

it's like you kept I've kept doing drugs. to the point where I picked them up. again. So if that doesn't make any sense. to anybody at home, >> it makes sense to addicts. >> If I was doing rails this big back in n. or 89 when I quit, >> it will mean I'm doing rails this big. when I pick up within weeks. >> Yep. within days. >> Yep. Same with booze. Same everything. >> Yep. And the thing is your tolerance is. not the same as it was then. So it's.

very dangerous. >> But yeah, in a very short amount of time. I was doing big old rails, like huge. rails. >> How are things going at the at work? >> Uh insane. I was going slowly going. insane. My employees are like, "What the. hell's going on?" My wife's like, "What. the hell's going on?" You have your son. and a stepson at this point. >> Yep. >> You're a good dad. >> Um I mean I was never bad to them, but I. wasn't a good dad when I was high. No,

it's terrible dad. Just getting high. Yeah. >> You thinking about them at all when you. when you're doing your. >> rails? All the time. All the time. And uh it just made me. want to get more high and not think. about it about how much I was failing. them like constantly. And. maybe I had it in the back of my head. that oh I can I can get around this. But.

then there was a point that kicked in. It's like no this probably it. >> I did it once. I can do it again. And. then you probably can't. >> No. But um just through the grace of God. nothing bad happened to him. Now, I. didn't take any unnecessary risks with. them or do any drugs in front of them or. or uh drive them anywhere completely. incapacitated or anything crazy like. that. I still had enough, I guess, humanity left in me to not do that. >> That's why Coke is very tricky. >> Yep. >> Because it's not like you're all cloudy.

and slurry. >> You feel like I can control this. I got. this. >> Till you're up for like four or five. days and it gets a little crazy. That. was when you you I couldn't believe that. you didn't crash on the way back from. San Diego. So, just quickly, what. happened? >> Okay, go to San Diego. I'm like just. completely out of it. Uh on Coke and. there's video of it somewhere. >> There is. >> There is. [laughter]. >> Oh my goodness. >> I'll find it. Uh it's it's bad. >> Do we have the Coked up podcast?

>> Coked up? Yeah, we were doing um I. wasn't involved. I had hired somebody to. do some interviews, but we had like my. plan, my cooked up plan was actually. sounded like a good plan at the time, but it was very hard to get internet. there was to. >> use the booth to sell stuff and also as. a as like an interview, like podcasting. interview on the floor. >> Great idea. >> Con, this was back in 2013, so it wasn't. easy to do that, but we did it. and we. got, you know, Dave Gibson and like we. got some big names uh to come in and uh.

and yeah, but I was like losing my. fucking mind. So I get home uh Melissa. finds out what the hell's going on and. uh I mean she finds the biggest. [laughter]. rock of cocaine. >> She she does. >> And how do you how does she how does she. confront you on the Oh my goodness. Um. she while [clears throat] I'm gone, she's planning. uh an intervention. >> Oh no. >> So she just plays it cool and then all.

of a sudden there's a bunch of people. coming to my house. I'm like. >> empty chair. >> Uh-huh. I'm like, "Oh shit.". >> You know exactly what it is. >> I know what's going on. >> Now this is where people make a choice. >> Yep. >> To sit or or to be an asshole. >> Yep. And I decided to not be an asshole. I uh. I mean I still love my wife of course. and I still love my kids. It's not like. that ever changed. Uh I just I was sick. I didn't like myself very much and I.

made a lot of mistakes. >> That's a that's a very important. decision that you made. That's that's. kind of like the real Gary coming. through is I'm going to sit because you. didn't have to because you you were. verbally. abusive to Melissa. >> Yeah. >> I mean some of the stuff you said to her. is out of hand. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> Um, >> she very easily could have left you. anytime. She should have. >> and probably should have. >> Should have. I I I. >> I can't even imagine speaking to anybody. that way. >> No.

>> Not someone who loves you. She's saying, "Call your sponsor, go to meetings, and. you're telling her to go fuck herself.". >> Yep. >> So, this time I didn't. And we sat down. a good friend of mine is there, you. know, who was a customer at the store, but he was [snorts] also um instrumental. in bringing me back to recovery. Uh he's. kind of a a recovery guru. Um and we sit. down, we have the specialist there for.

the rehab, and he's like, "We got to go. right now.". And at that point, I could have said no. Um. but I was done. I was like, "You know. what? Let's go." So, we go to rehab. and you know, I get cleaned up for 30. days. >> and it's really nice. One of the best. things about it was they took away your. my phone, too. And this is like 2013, so. it's not as bad as it was is today. And. it was so nice to not be around a phone.

for 30 days. >> Try it now, Gary. It's still nice. >> Uh, yeah. >> Try it now. >> I I I will not Maybe not for 30. I don't. know if I can for 30 days, but for a. week, that'd be nice. >> Everyone should put it away for a bit. >> For a bit? Yeah, sure. >> So, how did it go in in rehab? >> Uh, the rehab was was good because it. got me. reconnected with AA, but I wasn't ready. yet. Right. So, get out of rehab. I'm. nice and healthy. I get out of rehab. >> and just immediately go right back in.

right back at it. >> Did you have the store still? >> Store is still around. Yes. Who's. running it while you're inside? Uh we. have I have a I have a partial business. partner and then I have uh the employees. and they're holding it together and the. store was like kind of doing its own. thing. It didn't really need me there at. that point. >> Might have been even better without you. >> It probably would have been um. >> give him a break. >> So I get back go right back to the.

store. Store's doing pretty good, but. then things go downhill for me like. fast. So, like we're in uh we're in. rehab in August. So, we're in September. of 2013. And the store went from doing. okay to like absolutely done by the end. of the year. >> That fast. >> That fast. It was like it just fell off. a cliff. >> And it was my my like the store could. have survived, but I was I went back out. again. >> You were back on doing the coke. >> Yeah. And just like burning through.

money. >> Sure. >> Absolutely burning through money. So, I have to make the decision to close. it, but before I close it, somebody else. comes in and says like, "I'll give you a. song to buy it." And I'm like, "Ah, fuck." You know, you the customers still. have it. I'm like, "Ah, fine. Whatever.". You know, I I need I need to. >> And all this time you're selling. collectibles to feed your habits. >> Oh, god. Yeah. >> Stuff that's one of a kind. >> I laugh so I don't cry. Um, John Burn.

had uh I can send you the copy. It's. still out there. It's you can find it on. the internet, but John Burn had uh done. a a commission for me. >> of Batman and Spider-Man on a double. date with Catwoman. >> Oh. >> And Black Cat and Alfred's like. barbecuing on the top. >> So good. >> It's so good. It's like he drew it for a. comic book. Like the guy took so much. time with this commission. One of a. kind. I'll never see it again. >> for two days worth of Coke.

>> Maybe two days worth of Coke. And uh I. had Frank Miller original art from. Amazing Spider-Man 100, a spread page. where Spider-Man's eating. >> the Fantastic 4. >> What's going through your mind when. you're letting it go? Are you thinking. about this is going to hurt? >> This is going to hurt, but um you know. that's I need to get high. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And it hurts like a there's a couple. things like some stuff I've sold it's. like whatever. But like there's a couple. it's like oh those were. >> those wonderful.

>> you know how much that Frank Miller. spread would be worth right now it's. like oh. and considering how much I sold it for. it's like. >> but. >> so you have you have to you have to sell. the store or you want to. >> um we have to cuz uh I am I'm bank I'm. going bankrupt at this point. She's. carrying you guys. >> and uh Melissa's not going to carry me. Like this the shop has to carry itself. or it's done. And it could have, but I.

burned through all the money. So it it. just got tiresome. Um I had to have a. check ready when the shipment came and. it just like it it just wasn't. sustainable at that point. And it was a. choice of do I continue to to keep the. store or do I try to fight to get my. sobriety and my family back? And it was. it was an easy decision. So it was shut. it down then it gets sold. So it stayed. around for a little while. and uh I uh Melissa kicked me out of the.

house. >> What do you mean? Uh so she um right. around uh right around Christmas she. found some more pills and she's like. you're out. Yeah. >> So. >> and initially it was I went to sober. living. >> So um at first nowhere and then it we we. set up sober living. >> Sober living is urine test though. >> Urine test. Oh yeah. >> How'd that go? >> Oh I did so much. See the thing is.

though I didn't do coke. I could tell I. can tell you the truth right now. I. didn't do Coke, but I had done so much. Coke that [laughter] it was still in my. system like days after. So, I failed a. test and I'm like, I for real didn't do. any Coke, dude. But they're like, >> right, you they all say that. >> Yeah, they all say that. So, they they. they're like, the deal is you got to. just go you get kicked out for a day and. then you go to like a different house, right? >> You still got to pay for that day. >> Still got to pay for that day. >> So, um that's what happened. And I'm.

like, "All right, >> cuz you can't go home. >> I can't go home." So, I slept in the. car. >> Slept in the car. >> Slept in the effing car, >> hoping for tomorrow. >> Hoping for tomorrow. So, this is 2013. I. am uh 43. Uh. >> just lost everything. And I am sleeping. in my effing car. >> Right. So, uh I get into the the next um. the sobriety house. It's off a It's off.

a slope in San Francisco if you're. familiar with that area. And. I'm like, I'm going to give it another. go. I got to find a job. First, I just. wanted to get like I had enough enough. money set aside and didn't need a lot. It's just like, let's just get the sober. thing going right now. Let's go to. meetings. >> Meetings. >> Meetings. Yeah. And uh there's meetings. in the house. >> and the people in the house. It was a. nice house. People were pretty cool. Are. >> you still in touch with Melissa at this.

time? >> Um, a little bit. Yeah. I mean, a little. bit is enough. >> Yeah, a little bit. Which is like I'm. alive. Uh, I went to a meeting just. checking in. >> But she's not being like, you know. >> Do you know at the time that you're. risking more than you were at Falsam? Like it's a more dangerous situation. now. >> Yes. >> You knew that? >> Yeah. Like this is way more dangerous. than when I was younger. >> You got boys at home. No dad. >> I got kids I've abandoned basically. I've let down. And that like that sticks. the most, right?

Is uh what really motivated me to to. turn my shit because I didn't know if. she was going to get I figured she. wouldn't. And uh I'm like, "Oh my god, >> hesitation with my kids.". >> And I know other people have to go. through it. There's people out there. going through it right now. And it's not. to look down on them. This is a. completely different situation. But with. what motivated me was like, I don't want. to have I don't want to I don't want to. be that dad.

>> Mm-. >> I don't want to be that dad. There's so. many dads out there that have done that. It's like I don't want to be that dad. >> You sit in circles with that dad every. time you're at a meeting. Y there one of. those guys is there. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Can't be that guy. >> I can't. And and you know it it sucks to. be in that position as that guy. And. like if I had to be in it, that's fine. that my main motivation was I am not. going to be that guy. I'm not going to. let my kids down. Period. So, whatever. I'm feeling, I have to I have to deal.

with it. So, I did I I that was it. That. was the thing that clicked for me and. passed my next piss test. No problem. >> Nice. >> And. listen, yeah, it was qu they were all. like this this is the guy who failed. So, I think they were ready to like boot. me out and I passed. They're like, "Okay, we can move a you could you could. feel kind of like attention leave and we. can move on." And and. >> that guy who technically threw you out.

that first night, which he should have. I don't know what the quote was, but it. was a great moment in your story. >> where you were kind of try negotiating. almost fighting with the guy to stay. >> Yeah. >> And whatever the quote was, he said, "What you're doing right now is you're. angry at external forces trying to get. someone else to make a decision for you. We're not doing that here.". >> Yeah. Yeah. You got to you got to you. got to do this on your own, buddy. >> This is on you. >> This is on you. Come back tomorrow. Like. these are rules, you know, and and. >> he was right. >> He was right. It's a great. >> 100%. It sucks to hear at the time,

though. You're like, >> "It does, but it's a but I make had me. thinking about my own life." Everyone. should think about that. When you're. angry at external things, you're looking. for someone else to make your decision. for you. >> Y. >> don't do that. Man up. Make the call. >> Man up. >> Own it. >> And And I did. And uh. >> yeah, so. through this uh through the sober living. it starts to come together and I have to. go through like just swallowing a lot of.

pride along the way. This is you know is. going back to auto parts jobs but not to. the like I was a I'm a journeyman in. that field. I had to go work at O'Reilly. for $12 an hour. That's where I started. But that's that's what you have to do. And I wasn't super happy about it. I was. >> bitter, but it's like I understood that. like this is me getting a job. And in. the meantime, um, I start a podcast. I just because I.

miss the store and, uh, I'm like, I need. a hobby because I know how important one. of the things about recovery is going to. the gym is really important. And it's. not to it's more it's for this. >> Yes. more than anything. It's part of. that routine, right? And having a hobby, like having a hobby you enjoy. So, I'm. like, well, I like We did the podcasting. thing at the store. Let's just do one. for shits and giggles. And uh me and my. uh me and a friend. Okay. >> And um we did our first show in a.

Starbucks at West Portal in San. Francisco. >> What' you name the show? Uh well the the. show was named uh Sutra Watchtower in. the originally which is a terrible name. but it was just a placer name [laughter]. right cuz we were like literally cuz the. shop the the Starbucks is under Sutro. Tower which is. >> oh that's. >> which is a giant antenna uh in in San. Francisco. >> Okay. >> And we thought watchtowwer like you know. watchtower.

>> So it's ter it's a terrible name. All. creators have a terrible name for their. first channel, >> but it was just a placeholder. >> Yes. >> Right. Uh, and. >> yeah, we do this show. I think we talked. about Batman vs. Superman and like the. Arrowverse and you know, >> and how are you handling. being away from the comic book store and. going to job dayto day? How are you just. the drudgery, the regret? Uh it it I'm handling it by um going to. meetings and talking about it and get. myself a sponsor and temporary sponsors.

and whoever would have my ear. But it. I'm it's tough. It was really hard. >> How long does it take Melissa to trust. you again? >> Uh a while. A while. Uh we. once I got I think I moved on. We were. just about to move on. I went through a. bunch of jobs. So, I started O'Reilly. and then I just whatever would pay me. more, I was gone. You know, >> Tesla.

>> Uh, yeah. And ended up at Tesla. eventually, but between that, I worked. at a German car place and, uh, >> few Acuras, right? >> Uh, Acura and Dodge. >> Uh, and eventually end up at Tesla. But. I'm I'm back home within a few months. I'm back home and uh it it Yeah. So, I'm. doing the podcast thing. I'm going to. work every day. Uh and especially when. it's up, you know, in Marin. So, I'm. going to Tesla. I work for Tesla. I.

finally get a job at Tesla. I work my. way up. And. >> what are you doing there? >> Oh, well, Tesla found me for some on. freaking LinkedIn of all things. Like, I'm actually I'm the one person on earth. who got a job on LinkedIn. uh they sent. me a message and they were in the. process of trying to not be a tech. company and be an automotive company. because they have service centers, right? And they were treating them like. tech centers and it's like you can't do. that. So they need to bring in. automotive people and this was in 2017.

So they found me and they offered me. like all the money in the world and I'm. like okay well I they they're like what. would it take? And I'm like, I'm going. to give them a stupid like, >> how did you become talented and and. wanted? Why are you being recruited? What skills? >> I think they were um I was on on. LinkedIn already, but I just had a lot. of experience in in auto parts. That's. it. And and it it's probably just as.

hard now, but it was hard to find. people. >> It's a generational thing, but it was. hard to find people who who were. >> My boy can't change an alternator. >> Yeah. doesn't even know what it is. >> Yeah. So, it's like finding people who. had skills uh in that field was getting. tough. Was getting tough and they had. the money and they were just kind of. flinging I think it everywhere to see. Uh but the fact that they found me is so. weird. And I found that email when I was. at work at Toyota and I'm like I'll just.

answer it. And then like they shot me. back and I'm like, "Okay, I'll just show them. I'll just tell them. how much money I want." And they said, "Yes." And I'm like, "Okay, I guess I'm. working there now." Uh, it was fine. It. like for for big corporations, they're. actually probably the best I've ever. worked for. The. >> Were you turning wrenches? >> Uh, no. I was working in parts. So, I. was setting up a part I was helping with. a parts department that had no focus. whatsoever. And when I left, it didn't. have any either. That's the problem. Um, [clears throat] but like yeah, working.

at a Tesla parts, I won't bore anybody. It's just really different than working. at a regular car because Tesla's you're. pretty much just changing tires. That's about it. Door handles, tires, and uh, screens. >> And that's where you discovered YouTube. can kill some time. >> Uh, YouTube could kill a lot of time. So, I was watching a lot of YouTube and. I was still doing my podcast and doing. like a little a little bit here on. YouTube. Um, I was telling you earlier,

we got kind of inspired by uh Talking. Dead, but we were going to talk about. Walking Dead. I would we would find. about you great Chris Hardway. >> Yeah. We we we cover Ash versus Evil. Dead, Westworld, um Counterpart, just. any weird show. >> and we just do a live stream afterwards. and uh American Gods, you know, and we. get a little traction there. And it was. through Expanse we started getting. >> a bunch of traction, which was great, which was great before any culture. nonsense started going on.

>> Right. So, this is all going on in the. background while I'm working at these. parts jobs. And yeah, people I'm friends. with now, I'm all watching. I'm a Tesla. and I've got my phone down here. >> Who are you watching? >> Uh Jeremy from Geeks and Gamers. Yeah. >> Yep. So Jeremy from Geeks and Gamers and. in the early days Drinker. >> Sure. >> Uh yeah, I was watching Eric July. Young. Ripa. >> Shout out to Yellow Flash. >> Uh Yellow Flash. Hell yeah. Yellow. Flash. >> Uh I was in his streams a lot back in. the early days. Yeah, it was uh.

and uh eventually, you know, the a. couple of videos took off, right? Um. uh the first one that took off for me. like big time was like 30,000 views was. uh the expanse getting cancelled. I did. a video on that. >> Let's take a let's take a break. Okay. >> Um yeah, take a break cuz now we're. getting into nerdic. Before we take the. break, um, how's Melissa doing with this.

podcast thing? She's watching you do it. You're having wall. She thinks it's stupid. >> Uh, no, she actually she um. she really app she's she's part of the. operation now. She's the brains of the. operation. This thing doesn't happen. without her. >> I know. >> Um, does she think I'm stupid all the. time? [laughter]. No. Um, no. She's really supportive. Uh, and we could definitely get to like the. the part of the story where, you know,

she was freed up to have all that time. But I think she's she's she's proud. She's proud of me. Sure. >> In in her way. >> Be right back. >> Yeah. >> So, you have a video that takes off, right? >> Yes. Relatively speaking. >> Oh, no. I get it. 30,000 views took me. two years. >> Yeah. >> To get to. So, that's a lot. years to. get to that. And when I saw it happen, I. was just like it was the it was awesome. I was like, "Wow, 30,000 PE like a.

baseball stadium watched my video.". >> What video was it? >> It was the Expanse uh getting cancelled. It was for a bummer. It was a complete. bummer. But I was It was just reporting. that it was cancelled and I had never. really done a video. I was a live stream. channel purely not thinking I did. everything wrong. Right. When I started. live streaming, it was just to back up. podcasts. It was just to record the. podcasts. So, I had no idea people were.

watching. So, I'll never forget one of. my first I consider my first sub cuz he. was the first one I contacted. Brian. Smart, I love you. He emails me. He's. all I have been trying to talk to you. for the last three weeks. There's a chat. right below your that you're not paying. attention to. I'm like, there's a chat? >> You didn't know? >> No, I had no idea. >> Your fans are there. So I we start doing. that. I'm like, "Oh my god, there's four. people in here." So it was to like. success. >> Total success. This is all I ever wanted.

was just to talk nerdy stuff. And uh I. had another co-host. He's a friend of. mine. He's a good guy. He used to work. for Netflix. Um helped build Disney. Plus. He's kind of a brilliant guy. Um. >> it's not his fault what happened over. there. >> No, it's not his [laughter] fault. Um. but he's the one who's all, you know, we. can make money off this. I'm like, "Get. shut up. Can't make money off YouTube. I'm not going to make any money. I'm not. doing this for money. I I'm I'm happy. I. like it." And and uh.

>> Were you aware of like monetization and. all of that? >> Not super aware. And at the time, I. wasn't even monetized. So, I'm like, "That's not going to happen, you know.". >> So, you were making zero money. for years just doing it for fun. um doing this exact same thing I do now, but just I just did it as a hobby. because it was a chance to hang out with. my friends and it kept me out of. trouble. >> Yes. >> And it was doing something I truly. loved.

Every morning when I get up uh since. before the comic shop, I get up and go. to entertainment websites. So back 20. years ago was the Force.net, the one. ringing.net, at, you know, just looking. at all my nerdy stuff that made me. happy. That's it. >> So, why not make a show around that? And. then once something hits 30,000 views. and uh actors from the show contacted me. and they're like, "Hey, thanks for the. support." I'm like, "Hey, thanks for the.

great show, you know, like it was really. a great show.". >> Um, seeing it get picked up by Amazon. was awesome. >> So big. >> It was huge. Uh, and then, you know, we. kind of kept doing I I never thought to. make videos still. >> So, you're still not thinking about I. can make money this. >> Yeah. So, the first video that took off. was it technically a live stream. I did. it live, >> but then once it hit VOD, Yep. >> it took off and it didn't really click.

right away. >> Totally understand. And um. eventually I just started making videos. because I was told, "Well, that helps. you get subscribers." I'm like, "Well, I. can do a video. I can edit a video real. quick." And what I'll do is I'll just. riff off my last live stream, you know, cuz uh cuz I I mean, even to this day, my channel has more live streams than it. does videos. I think I've only done. >> Wow. >> uh 600 videos cuz it says 1,700 on my.

channel. 600 of those are videos. The. rest are live stream. So I I live stream. way more. Uh and I didn't think about it. because now I think of myself more as a. somebody who makes videos, but I. honestly live stream. >> You live stream all all the time. everywhere. >> I love it. >> What were the uh the monetization. requirements when you were getting. close? >> Oh, those were back in the days of you. got 1,000 subs. >> 1,000 subs and that was it. >> I don't even think it was 1,000 subs.

That's before me. You needed like 4,000. watch hours. >> It was 4,000 watch hours and 500. something. I I can't even remember. It's. not the requirements that you have. today. >> No. Do you remember when you hit it? >> I remember when I hit it and somebody. gave me $5 in a super chat. I'm like, "Oh, that's awesome. Thanks." Uh, >> you made money. >> I made money. Uh, I remember cash uh. like transferring the first $50 out of. out of my account just going right on. That's like.

>> absolutely. >> easy money right there. And I was happy. with it and I didn't need anymore. And. to this day, I haven't asked for a super. chat. I've never asked for a super chat. >> You haven't? >> No. No. Um and it it's it's been. brilliant. Uh the support has been. brilliant. But yeah, once the once that. took off, Doctor Who happened, right? And that was the first time. >> What do you mean Doctor Who happened? >> Doctor Who's been happening for a long. time. All right. So, I guess I got to.

frame that. >> Well, something things were happening. within this particular segment of pop. culture. >> Yes. >> That made [snorts] you angry. >> Yes. That I couldn't believe what was. happening because if you like Well, okay. So, let's go to The Expanse. You. love The Expanse. I love The Expanse. >> The Expanse kind of showed where. entertainment was going at the time. It. was prestige television. It was done. right. The Expanse season one and the. first two seasons are 10 out of 10 out.

of 10. >> Science fiction really a great take on. the world. A pretty even take on the. world. >> It was. >> and it was a diverse show that never. said we're a diverse show. It was going. that way naturally. It was kind of. matching the demographics of America and. the UK and nobody was making an issue. out of it. >> Well, it felt like this is where things. would go. >> Yes. And it's hard science fiction like. this is how things would happen. >> Yep. Especially um.

>> so we're talking about going to Mars, the Belters and they're they have a. unique culture and a language. >> Yeah. The Belters were the Teamsters. >> Mhm. >> Uh Mars was military. Yep. >> And um Earth. >> was the welfare state. >> Was the welfare state that was run by um. the United Nations. And I thought it was. a really accurate look at the United. Nations. >> and everybody was on basic income. >> and everybody on basic income sat around. their house and did nothing,

>> right? They got high. >> and then you had the wealth gap, >> giant wealth gap and it was a problem. and that's why people were leaving. That's why people would leave to Mars, you know, and Mars was militaristic, but. they were goaloriented and they were. it's it's complex, but there was a lot. of pe a lot of Martians were just good. people, you know, and then they had like. the space Mormons, which was funny. Uh, but I thought it was a relatively. objective look at life for the most.

part. Kind of changes later in the. books, but uh, >> it does. I stuck with them. I have the. books memorized. I did too. I I did too. I think they rallied at the end. The. books rallied at the end. I There's a. couple of books I don't like. Uh but um. >> what parts of the story of the expanse. bother you? >> Um meet you P. >> You don't like P? Huh? >> I hate P. I hate P. P was um. instrumental in destroying the earth and. faced no consequences for it.

>> Totally agree. And I I would skip her. scenes. No offense to the actress. Skip. her scenes in the book. >> Yep. Uh, but I was okay with drummer. >> Yeah, drummer was fine. >> Okay. >> Drummer was fine. >> with bull being kind of in there. >> Yeah. >> All right. I I I see where you're coming. from. >> And then they went away from Holden in. the later books. >> I just. >> completely I'm like, what are we doing? >> Uh, but it rallied at the end. It it it. and really and unlike the show answers. the protomolelecule like tells you.

what's going on, >> right? So, if you watched the show and. not read the books, there's. >> you just got started. >> You just got started. It's basically. Game of Thrones, you know, like ending. at at A Dance with Dragons or A Song of. Ice and Fire. And except you can read. the books and find out what's going on. >> I forget which run whether it was Ty, I. don't forget, but he was George's. assistant for a while. >> Yeah. Yeah. So both Tyrank and uh Dan. Abrahams are were are like.

>> uh proteges, >> right? >> They're like the two people who could. probably go and finish A Song of Ice and. Fire. >> on the planet. >> Yeah. So they they they were making like. a an RPG some and said this would be a. good novel. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yes. It started out as as a. game. Um I wish they hadn't gotten super. political uh a few years ago. they. haven't s well not that I've seen since. but uh I was yeah I was a huge supporter. of the show and I still say still watch.

it I still think it's pretty good. >> um. >> so what how how's that track with Doctor. Who and and what you were doing. >> so Hollywood drastically changed uh post. well there's a couple things uh the. first Trump administration and me too. kind of coincided. >> 2015 2016. >> 2015 2016 something radically changed in. Hollywood. What are the origins of that? I can get really in the weeds with that.

Um, I think a lot of it was dictated. from the Obama administration and on. >> You don't have to get into the weeds on. that because that's an opinion, but. >> it's my opinion. It Yes, my opinion. >> But what happened to the storytelling is. kind of fact. >> Yeah. Whatever the origins were, right? >> Right. And I have my I have my. suspicions which I've gone over a lot on. my channel. It did change and we saw. characters like Luke Skywalker turned.

into broken men who try to kill their. nephew because they had a bad dream and. sit on an island drinking uh the the. booby milk from a giant space manity. And. while they were trying to introduce new. characters in a Star Wars franchise that. everybody would have been fine with, it. was the treatment of Han Solo. It was. the treatment of Luke Skywalker and it.

was clearly. not creatively driven. All of all of. that was not creatively driven. It was. social and political. motivations behind these decisions. Um, a lot of channels were born with uh with. The Last Jedi and The Force Awakens and. um and The Rise of Skywalker. I got into. the mix. >> So, are those bad movies because it's a. female lead? >> No. No, they're bad movies because they.

weren't planned. They were poorly. written and the female lead was propped. up. Um, basically. she was propped up by. degrading the legacy characters. So. that's where the frustration comes in. Now you will hear the excuse from the. access media and even people who work on. the show and Lucasfilm that people just. hate women. Uh, every Star Wars fan. would have been completely fine with a.

female lead and a female Jedi. And Finn, who was actually the more. interesting character out of all of. them. He was. >> uh who they made a clown, not the fans. Uh, the fans were mad at them for the. treatment of Luke. What we have been. waiting for is to see fullpowered, full. Jedi Luke who could uh like in Dark. Empire who could bring down a a star. destroyer with the Force. We just wanted. to see that. That's all we wanted to. see. >> I I heard that even Mark Hamill.

>> didn't love the way that character. wrapped up. >> Uh he was not happy. He was clearly not. happy and he was showing that throughout. the press. Now they told him to finally. shut up. I don't think he ever fully did. and you can uh get mad at Mark for other. things he said. >> You can, but I don't care about what he. said. I don't care about his political. positions. I care about the story. >> As far as the story of Star Wars, he was. clearly not happy about it. and neither. were the fans. >> You mentioned a phrase access media. You. coined that. That's but that's a term.

that is used now in media. What does. that mean? >> Uh access media is the corporate media. that essenti and not all corporate. media. It's also some independent media. that will. basically throw softballs. as far as interviews go and uh be tox so. toxic negativity. There's also toxic. positivity. and they will gas up, gaslight,

um, things that aren't very good so they. can maintain their access and that and. it's not for money at all. I mean, I've. said it before, I'd almost respect that. more if you did that for money cuz. that's that's something of value. No, it's just to maintain your access. And. what they get is screen. They get early. access to movies or TV shows. They get. screeners. Um, and when you're watching. them, they've got like some giant. watermark thing over them. >> No. >> Um,

and uh, instead of being authentic and. honest all the time, uh, they pretty. much they're really soft on their. criticism and really crazy and in. absolutely unbelievable with their over. praise with things like Iron Hart or the. Marvels, which are just objectively bad. So they have to review these positively. or they don't get the next interview. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Or at least think that way. Now it's not. >> this is not your opinion. This is a this. is how it works.

>> This is how it works. And it's not like. the studios tell them that. The studios. don't tell them that. They they do it on. their own. >> And what happened is people like yours. truly or anybody else who went to them. normally like a I used to go to a CBR or. Screen Rant for my news all the time, right? or Ain't It Cool News. Um, and. honestly, Ain't It Cool News back in the. day was the most real. They were. absolutely the most real, especially.

Morardi. Um, he was like a a drinker. prototype. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You know, he would shred stuff and. that's why I loved the guy cuz I knew, well, this guy's honest, you know, and I. didn't agree with him all the time. But. you started seeing uh these these giant. sites and these critics. who uh. really. they went out of their way uh to I mean. to just to call movies that are.

obviously fl like you can like we can. have a difference of opinion of like. Shangi, right? >> Yes. >> Uh I some people could think it's good. I think it's terrible, but it's not the. worst thing Marvel's ever done. >> I think it made money. Yeah. >> Yeah. Uh, no, it didn't. It [laughter]. didn't. >> Okay. Well, yes. I I got. >> That's how they should decide. >> That's how they should decide. But the. what where they're gaslighting people is. saying these things are making money. when they're not. Um the the year that. Shangqi came out and the Eternals and I.

think it was Black Widow, uh, Marvel. wrote down $65 million the studio. So, they didn't make money. If you're. writing down money, you're not making. any money. >> So, if a movie makes We hear the numbers. all the time, a movie makes $300. million. That's not really the number, is it? >> It No. It does. Box office 300 million. That's. >> That's the money it it Okay. So, if a. movie makes if they announce it. >> Yes. >> Right. That is the movie. That is the. money it generated at the box office. >> So, that's free split. >> Yeah.

>> And that's not including the marketing. budget. >> That's not including marketing budget. That's not including anything. You're. paying the actors afterwards. That's not. including the theaters take. >> right which is about half. >> which is about half it averages out half. internationally it's uh it's a little. more they get you know China gets a huge. amount of the money and then it evens. out here uh particularly with Disney. which can kind of strongarm the theaters. and and have been for a long time. So. Disney gets 60% of the domestic. >> right. >> in a lot of cases.

So, uh, it's just it's we're just, um, it's semantics, it's parsing words, and. it's bullshit. And then they're not. calling it out. So, the press is. supposed to call this stuff out. So, we. started calling it out. And listen, I. didn't know anything about it. So, I. just researched it and I talked to. people. I talked to people who work in. Hollywood. I talked to people who had. knowledge of the box office and just. learned what they what they taught me. And it's pretty easy. Like theaters.

don't show movies for free, >> right? >> So when we're So when I when I went out. and called Shang Chi a flop, it was a. flop. It did not profit. And I got. called out by Simulu, [laughter]. which is fine. It's fine. Um but. >> called out for what? For criticizing. >> calling it a flop when and he said it. wasn't a flop, but it was a flop. It it. was it did not it was the technical term. of a flop. the technical definition, which is it did not profit at the box.

office. We had the same battle over. Superman. Now, I wouldn't go out and. call Superman a flop, >> but it certainly didn't perform as well. as it should have, but that that's where. the access media comes from. It is just. this divide and this disconnection and. they are just became a PR firm for the. studios. So independent people like. myself and others Jeremy from Geeks of. Gamers, Yellow Flash, Drinker, Mer just. started do their doing their own thing, right? And and none of us have ever said.

like our opinion is the be all end all. It is just an opinion. But people. started gravitating towards it because. it was the truth, you know, and you. know, sometimes I get things wrong and. sometimes they get things wrong. And and. the the cool thing is we can go a I got. that one wrong. >> Is are there any um movies or TV shows. that you've criticized that later on. you're like actually was okay. >> H. uh if we go way back,

there's movies I was way hard on and uh. like Thor Dark World. I I I think I was. a little too hard on that movie. I. actually It's not that everybody calls. it. It's not that bad. It's not. >> But when you can see other like uh the. Star Wars prequels, have they not. benefited the most from the Disney. trilogy? I. >> Those aren't that bad. Is that a hot. take? I don't mind those movies. >> I.

hated them when they came out. I have. >> very much softened my opinion on them. I. don't think they're great. >> We could do without Jar Jar. >> The Hobbit trilogy. I hated it when it. came out and I and I watch it all the. time now. >> Same. It [laughter] won me back. >> It won me back. >> So, anything recent that I uh I can't. say. I can't say. Um. yeah, nothing. Yeah. Like it's not like. I've gone back to Doctor Who. If we want. to get back to uh and Doctor Who going,

"Ah, it wasn't that bad.". >> I want to know what attracted attention. to you. >> So, what you why you were doing. >> Oh, I just came out and said the. doctor's not a woman. So when they when. they it the changes of Doctor Who were. happening even before Jody Whitaker came. along and it was getting um it was. getting filled with just uh political. nonsense. uh beforehand even with Kapali who did a. great job. I mean like it's I wish he. would have gotten better scripts cuz.

he's one of the better doctors and one. of the better actors to play it and I. have a lot of respect for that guy. >> But when they uh. >> you have a lot of respect for Jody. Whitaker. She's a brilliant actress and. a lot of this is not the talent's fault. >> It's not. The only thing like as far as. her taking a job, I don't criticize her. for that. It's when she took took the. job and what she said, then I'll. criticize her. >> Fair enough. >> Then I'll criticize her because if she. had just gone, I'm going to do the best I can as a.

doctor, like to come out with um that's. fine. I'm going to I'll I'll criticize. the show, but I'm not really going to. get on her. And I use the term the first. female doctor play by Jodie Whitaker. because that's how the access media. referred to her like all the time. So. that's why I used it in all of my. videos. But. >> it became a label culture. >> It it did. It did. And when she when. when they showed the the transition from. uh you know that she was going to be the. next doctor um I kind of knew it was.

Doctor Who pressing the panic button a. little bit. something Steven Moffett. even said prior to he said if we if they. change the doctor into a female they. they're pressing the panic button. Well, they did too soon in my opinion and my. opinion was at the time and still is. that the doctor's a male character and. the only reason you changed the doctor. into a female character, it was not a. creative decision. It was one to grab. headlines and it was one motivated by.

social and political uh it was it had. social and political motivations. It was. not a creative one. They don't know. where to go with this. And if they're. going to do a female doctor, are you. going to really are you going to explore. the the real differences between a male. doctor and a female doctor? Um and they. didn't. >> They didn't. >> They didn't. They just treated it the. same. Her first episode record-breaking. But I was I was there reviewing it and I. just said the doctor's not a woman and.

it was at that time that could get you. um suspended on Twitter. >> I remember. >> Yeah, it was crazy. So that's all I. said. It wasn't anything crazy. Um. >> why do you think you're labeled far. right? Are you far right? >> No. No. Um, I think I'm labeled far-right. for the same reasons a lot of people get. labeled farright is you don't agree with. one extreme political sect on 100% of.

everything. I mean, look at how they. treat JK Rowling is as progressive as. they get. She's she goes off the. reservation for one issue and look at. look at like what she goes through. So, I don't know. I I I'm not a hyper. political person, but as far as uh I mean, we've had the. discussions about it. As far as like. whatever uh criticism were flung at me,

I I'm on the internet. I understand I'm. on the internet and I don't really care. what people think. >> I'm glad you don't care. I I don't think. they know you support Amnesty. International, >> Gay Rights, Gay Children at Risk, all. that. They don't think they know. They're aware of that. >> Nope. Do you think uh by changing the this. beloved IP are the intentions good? Are. they trying to do something good for. society?

>> Uh yes, I think some of them have that. in their mind that the intentions are. good. But we all know. what gets uh what gets paved with uh. good intentions. >> We do. >> We do. Um, I think there are some true. believers in there that feel like that. you're you're getting to a modern. audience and you're uh accessing. children with certain messaging. The. problem is I I disagree with a lot of. that. But beyond that, it's.

there's no such thing as a modern. audience. That's the thing they're. always chasing. It's just it doesn't. exist. Well, okay, I'm going to reframe. that. It does, but there's not enough of. them. What you want, there's always the. audience. You want if you're making. Doctor Who or Star Trek or Star Wars, you want that to have the most mass. appeal as possible. >> Sure. >> And as I said earlier, if you have a. message you want to get across to get. people to think about, don't answer the. question for them, present it to them.

with respect, which is not not spoon. feeding it to them. And and that's what. a talented writer does. a talented like. even Alan Moore, we know where Alan. Moore comes from politically, uh thinks. he's a wizard, he's a he's a brilliant. writer, but even he can write a really. good Superman story like whatever. happened to the man of tomorrow, >> you know, he doesn't let that get in the. way of telling a good story. You know, J. Michael Strazinski,

you know, I loved Babylon 5. >> and yeah, and I think Babylon 5 actually. goes into some stuff that sometimes a. story can go beyond the writer and I. think it really. >> a lot of stuff that happened during co. you can look at some Babylon 5 episodes. that you know there was no intention. there but they really say a lot about. it. So that's that's what good. storytelling does and and it doesn't it. doesn't drive people away because if you. are if your intention is like I want.

people to think about this well you want. the most people to think about it as. possible. So you don't talk down to. them. You don't uh like I said earlier. you don't like start a story going. listen up bigots. >> That's not the way to convin the way to. go. It's not the way to convince. somebody. And it's really. it really divided fandom in a way that. I've never seen in my life. Now, fandom has always been crazy and. critical. Um, and there like you thought. you could change the doctor into a woman.

and people wouldn't speak up. That's. kind of crazy. thinking about it now. >> How many arguments did you see at the. comic book store about this comic versus. that one? This character and it was. great. I loved them because there were. goodspirited debates and uh like and I'm. an idiot. So, I'm sitting there arguing. with customers. >> and we're like yelling at each other, but we're cool afterwards. >> But, um, yeah, and I had to hear some. crazy stuff, but I you know what? I. listened to him. I sat there. Uh, Art.

Art Bell, greatest interviewer ever. >> Yep. >> Um, non-confrontational. kickback a little bit, but I listen to a. lot of art and he will let people have. their say with respect, right? And part. of uh I think being on a on a live. stream in particular is you you are kind. of running some customer service and you. got to kind of let people talk, let. people do their thing and listen to it. And if it's insane, you can kick back a. little bit, but there's still a way to.

kick back without, you know, calling the. guy an a-hole. >> Why do you think um nerd culture, geek. culture, which I come from, >> you know, reading your book, it's almost. like reading autobiography at some. places. The way I came to Tolken is the. same way through the the 70s cartoons. and Star Wars. I remember waiting online. as a kid changes me. Why do you think. Hollywood went after these this. particular beloved IP with hardcore fans. and want to change it? Why why why is.

that the target? Uh the well I mean my. opinion on the matter is Hollywood went. after it because they wanted to they. felt they were going to force the change. that was needed. Uh consequences be. damned because this is what we we know. better. So we're going to I mean with. Doctor Who we're going to take something. away. That was the whole because with. Doctor Who, you can. >> make a separate series with a female.

They time ladies they were called. You. could have done that. >> uh and Doctor Who fans would have. watched it. You could have had a Doctor. Who show and and a Time Lady show. >> You could have. >> You could have done that. And they. didn't do it because they wanted they. felt like. somehow you're being inclusive by taking. something away. and we still see it to. this very day, right? And it doesn't. make any sense. It doesn't add to. anything. >> Has it worked with any of these?

>> Um, no. >> Honestly, none of these have worked. >> You can have some like uh side. characters where it works. And like I'm. not militant when it comes to race or. gender swaps when it's with a side. character. Like in Harry Potter, if you. make Susan Bones black, I don't care. Uh. but. >> but Snape is a problem. >> Snape is a problem. Snape is a problem and Doctor Who was. just as big of a problem. It. fundamentally changes the show. It fun. it changes the past. So, and then what.

they did knowing. with Doctor Who like what a problem it. would be. Uh instead of just having the. female doctor show up and leave, which they could have done, they're. like, "No, we need to reinforce her in. the story. So, we need to change the. origin." So, when they went back and. changed the origin, and I heard way in. advance, I I I had a friend who was. working with uh with Doctor Who, who I. knew from the comic shop days, was. telling me what's going on. I'm like,

"You've got to be kidding me." He's all, "No, no, they're going to change the. origin of Doctor Who." I learned a lot. of this stuff from your videos, and I. would say the same thing. You know, Gary. said, "This is going to happen." I'm. like, "There's no way they're going to. do that. It's been 40 years. They're not. going to do that. They're not going to. retcon the 40 year." They But they did. They did it and they did it to reinforce. the female doctor and they thought it. was uh they thought it was going to get. to the new modern audience. >> Did any of this bring in women? Did it. bring in any of these?

>> Nope. >> It didn't. >> Nope. >> So, it's still the same people watching. this this IP in generally. >> It's the hardcore Doctor Who fans who. are hanging on. And what Hollywood has. failed to learn that is, you know, you. buy a really expensive IP for that. built-in audience. That built-in. audience are the ones who are they. shepherd new fans in. They are the. custodians. They you you the company own.

it, but Star Trek fans are the ones who. make more Star Trek fans. >> My wife loves the MCU. My wife loves. Star Trek because she would sit there. I. would watch it. >> as you know as the nerd who knows. everything. >> She doesn't know anything. She just. knows it's a fun good story. >> Yep. >> She doesn't really watch any of that. anymore. >> No, because they're not fun. They're not. fun. >> Doctor Who, she became a fanatic with. back to Eckleston. We She became a. fanatic and when when Tennet came on,

that's it. We We were done. We were in. But we're out. >> It It's Oh god, it's such a shame. You. know, I was just uh I'm going through. some classic who now right now and it's. like it's a show. It was made for. nothing. And it's and it's it really is. just carried with its acting and its. storytelling cuz you've got, you know, Tom Baker talking to a papier-mâché. dude. [laughter] Like it's tinfoil. It's. terrible. >> I loved it when Tom Baker I loved when I.

was a kid. I didn't notice. I didn't. notice. >> some of the themes are really like. really dark and and like and. magnificent. And I know that there was a. lot of criticism in the UK about that, but I loved it as a kid. Uh. >> do you think things are coming back? The. pendulum always swings. >> I think so. But I think it's because I. wish it was because, you know, we see. the error of our ways. We are. villainizing. uh and demonizing. um the paying customer, our audience,

the people who got us here uh and. constantly saying we don't need you by. we're hunting for a modern audience. We're looking for a newer newer. audience, right? And it's like, you know, word of mouth is still the. best marketing there is. >> Telling a story is still a pretty good. idea. >> It's a good idea. and you you forego. that because you're searching for. potential, right? I've never understood.

that. There's nothing that there's no. there's no data out there that says uh. Gen Z was going to get into Doctor Who. if you change change it to a woman. >> There's no data. >> None. There's zero. >> There is. But they'll show up for a good. story because the the audience is still. the audience. So, you went from being. ignored to being attacked, and now you. have influence. >> Um, I got attacked. Uh, and it was.

>> Well, you're still being attacked. You're going to be attacked for this. As. will I. >> Yeah, you will. >> I will. >> Sorry. >> I care so much. >> Uhhuh. Um, what. >> was my friend? If that's a problem, buy. Felicia. I don't care. >> Thanks, brother. I mean, I feel like I'm in a coma somewhere. I. don't want to wake up. This is We do. this for a living, so who cares? >> Yeah. It's It's really kind of the. greatest gig in the world, >> isn't it? So when uh when you get.

attacked on the internet like not. everybody's gonna and this is no. judgment on nobody wants to get. the emails I get or you get or nobody. wants to get that stuff but. >> you know if you keep it in mind like I. don't know I've got the grading curve of. life where the stuff I've been through. I'm like this is nothing like I'm not. worried about it. That's why I spend so. much time with your story because um a. lot of the hate you get really isn't. warranted because there's no you there's.

no misogyny in you. There's no racism. There's really no political leaning. You. just want your stories told properly. >> and and Beloved IP just left alone. >> I think that's okay. I I think it's okay. to adapt something properly and it. doesn't mean you they have plenty of. room in original material to do whatever. messaging they want. >> Well, you're influencing studios now. Do. you feel that's that power is earned. >> of. >> of having influence in Hollywood because.

they know who you are. I know that for a. fact. >> Oh, >> I talked to studio execs of all the big. studios and they know who Gary is and. Will and everybody. Um, >> and they're making decisions based on. you guys. >> Oh, wow. That I that doesn't hit my mind. very much at all. I try not like because. of uh where the relapse came in last. time. >> Mhm. >> So, I try to keep things very much in. check, but I am just an idiot with the.

microphone. And. >> cuz you're back where you are at the. comic, you're hot shit again. >> You can't let ego Gary come back. No, >> cuz you'll lose it all. >> No, I hope they listen to the people in. the comment section and the people in. the chat. I hope they, you know, take a. good look at that and see what people. cuz um you know during a live stream. we'll have people rewrite uh The Last. Jedi or the last episode uh a Starfleet. Academy or we'll have a Robert Myer.

Bernett on Friday Night Tights who. pitched a better Starfleet Academy than. the one they like one I would watch, you. know. So they're they're it's not all um. them slinging, you know, whatever. they're slinging. >> So tell me about Friday Night Tights. because that's you're what hundreds of. episodes of that. How did that start? >> Uh 400 episodes. >> 400. And what is F&T? >> F&T is a shit show. It is um it's uh. it's a live stream that we do every.

Friday and it is climbed up to nine. co-hosts. and we talk about pop culture every. every Friday. We've been doing it for uh. this version of it for six years. I've. been doing a Friday show for eight. years. >> And it's true you've never had uh anyone. black or female on there. That's true. >> Never. Not once. No. Not nobody gay. Uh. no. Never. You're being sarcastic. because you have. >> Yes. A lot. >> You have. >> a lot. And um.

>> and what we learn is fans are fans and. the labels don't even matter. >> Nope. >> So what makes F&T different? Because I. there's bazillion of these shows. >> There is. Um I think it's the good mix, the chemistry of personalities and no. filter at all. And what we really try to. lean on like making you laugh. That's. the whole point is of the show is to. make you laugh and it's it's just a. bunch of people who like each other. genuinely.

um shooting the shit for three or four. hours and it's it's no different than. any other conversation of fans anywhere. else that that you have with your family. or at a diner. Um and there's no plan to. it at all. We kind of throw we bullet. point some subjects. We get to about. three of them. We go off on tangents. Uh, so there isn't any real structure. >> Don't create any. Just leave just leave. it. Chaos. >> I don't even think we know how. I don't. know how.

>> I I don't know what I'm doing either. So. what for Forbidden Frontier is something. I came across accidentally and didn't. know that Gary did this. What is that. show? >> It is uh another passion of mine like. you. I like I listen to ArtBell. >> Have you ever heard of Art Bell and Dr. Dementoto? >> Oh yeah. Doc Dr. Dementoto. is uh I listen to Dr. dementoto before. Art Bell like years and years. >> Same. >> um7s. >> Yeah, back in the 70s and this this how. I grew up. >> But um yeah, with UFOs and Bigfoot and.

ancient civilizations, Eric von Danakin, uh Charles Charles Britz was like the. gateway. >> sure drug for a lot of people with um. the Bermuda Triangle. Um. >> for me it might have been Graham Hancock. in the 90s was the gateway to that kind. of stuff. the uh yeah the pre flood. society, the fingerprints of the gods. >> Graham I think graduated the subject to. something yes way more legit.

>> Yes. >> Like I always you like all respect to. the late Eric von Danakin, Chariots of. the Gods. and we go back to Vilicausi who honestly. I didn't know about till later. >> Yes. >> Where all of this uh where all of this. comes from and In Search of I watched In. Search of all the time. >> Sure. and X Files and remember the show. Sightings of course. >> that was the pre uh so I've always been. into this all my life and listen to art. but when yeah when Graham came around he.

took the subject of ancient. civilizations and made it more palatable. right and and did it honestly uh and. >> as a real journalist. >> as a real journalist who actually goes. places and looks at these things with. and and paid for it with his own money. >> cuz Artbell was the best to ever do it. But some a lot of it was wacky, man. He. was always very respectful, but a lot of. it was just wacky. >> But you read Graham's work and he's this. is serious stuff. And you know, Robert. Shock and even Rand Randle Carlson,

these are real scientists. This is real. stuff. >> It's real stuff. And I mean, you can't. underell when Randall and and Graham and. Randall were doing them separately, but. when they got together and did that on. Joe Rogan, that really launched it. And. that's why we have um. uh a lot more legitimacy. uh in this, including a an a Netflix. special with two seasons for Graham. Hancock, which I never thought I'd see. >> No. >> Um and. >> they tried to cancel that.

>> They did. Ancient Apocalypse. >> Yep. I defended him hard on the channel. when he was attacked for being a racist. >> Yeah. >> It's like. >> that is the most ridiculous thing. And. like. >> it's like you don't know anything about. this man. >> You you obviously haven't seen his wife, right? >> So, >> right. [laughter]. >> It was very nice. >> Right. So, it was here we go again. But. I'm always frightened. Like I was just. getting started. I'm not really. controversial, but I am a I I go pretty. hard against government and all of that.

Um, so when when when Joe Rogan when. they when CNN tried to cancel him and. they were going after Spotify, I was. terrified because I was I was making a. few bucks. >> Yeah. >> And it was like if they cancel Joe, this. all goes away. >> Yep. >> And Spotify stuck by him and then. everything started to relax. It's like. everything started to change. I think it. was that moment. >> that was uh surprising. Yes. But they.

stuck by him because I know a lot of. employees in there didn't want to stick. by him. >> Yep. >> But I think they saw the investment and. saw. that that Joe isn't what what CNN was. trying to make him out to which is just. ridiculous. It was so. >> No, no. He's just a regular guy. Like. >> he's just a guy. >> He's just a dude and he looks at things. from a very dude perspective. Uh, and I. think that that that I think it's really. endearing and that's why he's the best.

podcaster out there. >> And all the things he criticized back in. those days, you criticized, I did. Turns. out we were right. >> Yep. >> Which I knew the whole time. We were. right. And now we're allowed to be. right. >> And u he Joe kicked that door in by by. sticking to his guns. >> Spotify sticking with it. Um Elon coming. in and buying Twitter and changing that. which absolutely changed. >> YouTube. >> Yes. I mean, and and Facebook and. everybody everything else. Um, YouTube. is uh it ain't perfect, but it's way I'm.

I haven't been going to break the. streak. We haven't been demonetized on. F&T in a long time. >> Well, knock on wood. >> Yeah, >> I I don't dodge that bullet every week, but but I try. Uh, I'm used to not doing. like I was fine with it, but it's just. it what you can get away with now on. YouTube. Aside from a couple things, >> what do you think happened? What. >> I think when when Elon. exposed uh through the Twitter files.

when they exposed all the government. interference. >> because if they were interfering with. Twitter, they're they're at Google right. now. They're they're they're everywhere. right now. They are. They still are. But. that had to get loosened up. And I also. think advertisers, we c we can't discount the money factor. in. >> Nope. >> So advertisers. were losing a ch by by acting, you know, clutching their pearls and saying we. cannot show ads on this stuff and they.

saw how much they were losing, how much. money they were losing because you could. advertise on all this YouTube stuff. And. >> Joe was demonetized the whole time and. then woke up one morning and it was just. on. Yep. >> They didn't say anything. Just quiet. Just. >> because the advertisers loosened up a. little bit. >> Yeah. They I would like to have 30. million people look at my ad. >> Yep. >> It's the same story. It's just about. people and audience. It's not about. point of view really. >> No. And it and it's not like it was we.

look back on it and go that was really. common sense and that was considered. highly controversial. That's that's how. we get we get caught up in this stuff. >> It's one of the darkest times in our. history. I'll never forget the day Jen. walked in and said they're going to lock. down the city. We were in LA at the. time. They're going to lock down the. city, close all businesses. And I. laughed at her. I said, "What? They. can't do that.". >> And they said, "They're going to do it. for two weeks.". >> Mhm. >> I couldn't believe it. I stayed open. I. >> Good for you. >> Broke curfew, stayed open, had the.

studio just went to hell. No one would. come in. No masks. They wouldn't come. in. And we're out of business during the. riots. That was the end of that. >> The riots. Mhm. >> Lovely riots. >> which weren't really covered on the. news, but LA burned. I've never seen. police cars on upside down on fire. before, but I did. I did that week and. then that's where we left LA. >> Um, so Forbidden Frontier is a great. success. You guys really know your stuff. Like I.

I look to you because I don't know. anything. I'm just an entertainer. I. look to you guys. You're the you're the. like the reporters kicking in the doors, following the stuff. Um, I watched you live stream a congress. congressional hearing, I think, close. What do you think's going on with. disclosure? >> Oh god. Uh, I think we're in a worse. shape now than than we ever have been. So, um, and it's just because I've been. following this as a hobby.

>> So, I I know lots of lit bits and. pieces, but you'd have to definitely go. to the Richard Dolan of the world to for. the expertise. Um, yeah, we. we covered that one and that was. frustrating just all the stuff that has. to go on in the skiff and I do believe. and it took me a while to get to this. I. believe there is a faction in the. government that really wants to let us. know. Um, why?

I don't know. I I I think there is some. danger involved. Uh, I know there's the. the Steven Greer point of view where. this that the that all the aliens if. they're out there, if they're us, whatever they are, >> right? >> They're nice. I I don't know if I can. buy that. Maybe it that's a possibility. They could if they could have if they. had the power to wipe us out, they could. have wiped us out already. There's. certainly that that. >> Do you think they're out? Do you think. it's extraterrestrials, aliens from.

other worlds, or is it interdimensional? Is it future time traveling humans? >> Yes. >> Yes to all. >> I think it's yes to all of those. I I. haven't decided yet. I go back and. forth. Um it's definitely something. I. just. >> I think interdimensional maybe is what. I'm falling on now. That they've been. here for a long time. That they're in. the water that they're in the ocean. >> It's where I'm leaning. >> Uh but that could change. That can. change. Um,

but with that last government hearing. where we just heard nothing and the same. stuff over and over again, it just it. was discouraging. So if we I don't know. where the UFO topic goes now. I always. thought if we get disclosure, it won't. be from a government. And even if a. government came out, if Trump or. whatever president of another party came. out and said, "Yep, we talked to we. talked to Zorg from the Pallades and uh. we have a like half of the country is.

not going to believe it.". >> They're not. >> Just because of the politics of it. So, it'll have to be something insane like. uh uh the Phoenix lights uh a UFO flying. slowly over a big city where we can get. multiple camera angles and then still. half the population will think it's AI. >> Yes, they will. >> It's it's it's in a bad place right now. >> Don't know where you go. >> You've been. you're into the ancient stuff. You've.

actually gone into the field. >> Mhm. Yes. Where have you been? >> Been to Peru and Egypt so far. And we're. going to go to Japan. We're going to go. check out megalithic Japan. >> What? Yanuguni. >> Uh yeah. Well, no, not I'm not going to. be diving. Uh but no, uh basically where. the where the palace is, you know, just. so the polygonal stones. We're going to. we're going to look at uh at there's. there's quaries. There's giant stuff on. there. going to uh Saxi Woman for the first.

time. I don't know if you've ever been. there. It is [clears throat]. >> mind-blowing. Utterly mind-blowing. And uh it really, you know, I can hear. all this stuff all day long and I can. read all the Graham Hancock, but when I. when you go there and you see like how. in the hell did they do this? And you. know, I don't think it was aliens. I. always think it was humans. We were. pretty industrious. I don't think it's. that crazy to think that there was a.

civilization that was maybe as advanced, let's say, as the Romans were, you know, uh, 10,000 years before the Romans or. 8,000 years before the Romans that got. wiped out during a. apocalypse basically during a a. cataclysm that's looking like actually. happened. >> It is looking like that. Yeah. with. Gobeclete and Monukotara. This looks. like they were here. Um, great pyramid.

Egyptians built or found. I think built. from direction from um plans for lack of. a better term from uh blueprints from a. previous culture. >> Interesting. >> Previous culture. >> So maybe there was a foundation there.

already that they uh I I think the. pyramids have been have been rebuilt. >> There's some evidence. >> probably multiple times. just evidence. >> kind of like well the Sphinx for sure. the Sphinx has been put back together. Uh we were just there in Egypt and we. saw um you know the the erosion evidence. that Robert Shock and John Anthony West. had uh exposed many many years ago. Yeah. They're putting a wall over it. >> They're putting a wall over that. >> Yep. Yep.

>> So you went hard after Zahi was after he. was on Joe's show. >> Yeah. He was ridiculous. Um, do you think he's gatekeeping or do you. think he's protecting his culture? >> Um, >> there's a national identity to Egypt to. Egyptians that's that they're proud of. and should be. >> Yes. I think that that is the I think that is. the motivation behind some of the the. the. roadblocking we're seeing on some of the.

archaeology is they're trying to protect. uh Peruy Peru's a lot cooler about it. than than Egypt is. Um I got to be care. I don't I I don't trust the things Zahi. Hawas says. I think he's a complete. I think he's shady as hell. It wasn't a. good look for him on that show. >> And no, he he did he did more uh he did. more good for Graham Hancock and Randall. Carlson and Robert Shock than anybody. could have dreamt after that appearance.

>> Uh always talking about his book, taking. credit for stuff that he didn't. discover. Uh and and some people who. have met him said he's a complete nice. guy, but uh I just the impression I get. is he is stopping progress there. and. maybe you know tell us why I think the. most exciting thing is the labyrinth the. labyrinth in Egypt uh Ben Van Kirk. Kirkwick. >> this is the labyrinth. >> yeah uh has done some great work on this.

not that he discovered it but he's done. some great work uncharted X. >> has done some great work and great. videos on these. >> and I think that would be the most. exciting discovery of the 21st century. uh we need to and and there's some. politics behind it uh it's getting. flooded out And. >> that's because of the water is being. diverted because they need to help. agriculture. >> which they do. >> Which they do. They need to find a way. to divert that water so we can drain it. and figure out what's down there.

>> And we don't have much time for that. lab. >> No, we don't. And Liidar has shown that. there are we know there's structures. down there and that labyrinth has been. discussed by. oid plenty the elder all these great. historians. >> Strao all visited and said it goes they. saw 3500 rooms it goes down three. stories it's there. >> some have said there's a giant oval ring. made of metal. >> thing yeah. >> in the center of it. >> the exact same size the well not exact.

but close to the size as the tic tac. >> That's right. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um it's it's wild and I. would love to know and why not? But you know, Zahi seems to stop a lot. of that stuff. And um you would think, you know, Egypt relies a lot on tourism. That would. >> that would be a. >> I'd love to see that. >> I would I'd go back. >> Mhm. >> I'd go back. Um, it was definitely worth.

going for sure. It was amazing seeing. some of that stuff. Uh, Egypt's an. interesting country. [laughter]. But. >> you've got your media empire. What do we. have? >> Oh boy. >> We've got F&T, Forbidden Frontier. You. got your videos, Neurotic Daily. >> Yeah. >> What else are you doing? >> Oh my god. I think that's pretty much. wraps that. That's it. >> That's a lot. >> That's a lot. That keeps me busy. I've. got a couple editors. Um, X-Ray Girl,

you know, Cord Black, Perry Chan, uh, and Oh, we we uh we do tours once in a. while with Michael Collins from. Wandering Wolf. >> Yeah. >> So, we'll be doing the Japan thing. Uh, that takes up all my time. >> And, you know, you're living the dream. now. >> Absolutely. This is the greatest gig in. the world. >> Uh, you said daily practice gratitude. daily. >> Yep. >> What's What's the mechanics of that? Because some days are shitty, man.

>> That's when it's the most important. So. >> what do I do? How do you do it? >> Oh, you catch yourself in Okay, I catch. myself in a bad mood or feeling. excessively negative about just like. really mundane stuff in life. And. uh I just it's it's a mindset of turning. it around by thinking of three three. things that you're thankful for. And the. first one could be, wow, I've got uh.

there's a wife out there who loves me. for some reason. I don't know why, but. she [clears throat] does. Um my kids. like me. That's awesome. Not every not. every kid loves their father. Uh and. with you know and we have this amazing. job like that that thanks to the support. of so many brilliant people out there. Uh it's definitely something we we work. at, right? But it's like I've said it. before, it's like winning a lottery that you.

work really hard to get to. >> That's a great way of describing it. >> You going to meetings? >> Yes. Go to meetings. So, and we'll wrap up with this. There are people listening now, cuz I. know they're out there that are. addicted, that are struggling, >> depression, they're in booze and drugs. to cope. Can you tell them who the most important. person in their life is? Oh, they are. >> they are. >> they are they're the most important.

person in their life and and um people. love them, people care about them and. it the world can still benefit from them. turning stuff around. It's never too. late. It's never ever too late. Uh and. if you try sobriety, I can promise you. it will not be easy. But I can also. promise you it will get better way. faster. Your life will get better way.

faster than you think. Uh and it and. just give it a try. Um you know, people. can try reh. I don't want to discourage. anybody from getting sober any way they. want, but definitely whatever you do, make sure you go to meetings, too. Um it. really they're free and you'll find some. of the most welcoming, forgiving people. on earth in there. And just make some. friends. see what happens. >> You're an inspiration. You're the proof. that it works. Gary, thanks for coming. in. It's been a dream. >> Cheers. It's been awesome. Thanks.

>> Bye, everybody. >> That was Gary Beckler. I know his name. is spelled [music] wrong. Everyone calls him Bler. Gary Beer, the prison story, the comic. shop, the relapse, the comeback, Doctor. Who, the Access Media. We covered a lot. Gary's book covers the old Falsome story. in full and it's a different kind of. read than you'd expect for a pop culture. guy. If you only know him from Nerdic, [music] buckle up. The book is wild. I. was going to say in graphic. It's not.

that graphic, but it's it's pretty. intense. So, there's not much to analyze. about what we talked [music] about here. cuz Gary is my friend, but here's a few. nuggets. The Doctor Who situation he. described [music] tracks with what. actually happened. Series 11 opened huge. over 9 million viewers in the [music]. UK. Then the new showrunner retconed The. Doctor's Origin in series 12, rewriting. 55 years of canon in a single episode. Ratings collapsed. [music]. The BBC eventually replaced everyone and.

brought the original showrunner back. We'll see how it goes, but I'm not. getting my hopes up. Gary mentioned. Disney was racking up some serious. losses. Well, Disney did report roughly$. 1.5 [music] to $2.5 billion in content. writedowns in 2023. Gary's math is. correct. Gary is controversial, but he. probably shouldn't be. His grievances. align with what a lot of people were. already feeling. He was just one of the. first people to call it out. The pattern. he identified putting politics ahead of.

story showed up in Doctor Who and Star. Trek and Marvel and Star Wars [music]. and Lord of the Rings and now in Harry. Potter. He called it every time before. most people were even paying attention. Gary's memoir is waiting from prison to. YouTube on Amazon and it's a great read. [music] His channel is Nerd Rotic. Friday Night Tits goes live every. Friday. Forbidden Frontier is where he. covers ancient mysteries, UAPs, and. Wiles kind of stuff. It's probably. better than the W files. The links are. down below. Until next time, be safe, be.

kind, and know that you are appreciated. I was a little mumbly. Do another take. Leave it in. [music]. [music]. I play in Area 51. [music] A secret code. inside the Bible said I would.

[music] I love my UFOs and paranormal. fun as well as music singing [music]. like I should. then another conspiracy theory becomes. the truth [music] my friends [singing]. and it never ends. [music] No, it never. ends. >> [music].

>> I feel the crap guy. I got stuck inside. Mel's home with MK [music] out. I feel. only aware. Did Stanley Cubrick [music]. fake the moon landing alone on a film. set of shadow people there? The Rodwell [music] aliens just fought. the smiling man, [singing] I'm told. And [music] his name was cold. I can't.

dancing with the fishes and [music]. Thursday night. all through the night. [music]. All I ever wanted was to hear the truth. I will be all through the night. [music].

[music]. The midings and the solar storm [music]. still come to gather this young city. underground. Mysterious [music] number stations, planet circle to project star gave and. what the dark watchers found [music]. in a simulation. Don't you worry though.

The black night. is so I can't believe I'm dancing. [music] with the fish. on Thursday night when they change you. and my [music] all through the night. [screaming]. All I ever wanted was to [music] hear. the truth. all through the night. >> [music]. >> That's when they.

all. [music and singing]. want to hear the truth. >> [music]. >> loves to dance.

to dance [music]. because she is a camel. Camel loves to. dance when the feeling is well. time. [music]. Heat. Heat. [music]. [bell].