Wrapping 2025 w/ Jon Favreau & Tim Miller | The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart

JON FAVREAU: Tim and I joke that our politics. have sort of moved now so that we have the same politics. Like, I've moved towards Tim and he's moved towards me--. JON STEWART: Right. TIM MILLER: Uh oh. JON FAVREAU: --and so we don't disagree on anything anymore. TIM MILLER: That's a bad clip for you on TikTok. JON STEWART: [LAUGHS] JON FAVREAU: Kind of. You know what? This is part of it. TIM MILLER: When you run for governor in California--. JON FAVREAU: Tim, this is part of it. I don't give a shit. I don't give a shit. [MUSIC PLAYING]. JON STEWART: Hello, everybody. Welcome to The Weekly Show podcast. My name is Jon Stewart. I will be your host for this lovely afternoon.

It's Wednesday, December 10. This is the final podcast that we are doing this year. We will be back, I think, in maybe. the second week of January. You know, old people need a good time. It used to be when you're younger, you go on vacation. I believe I am going to be convalescing. I believe that is the proper term for ladies and gentlemen. over 60 years old who are taking a little bit of a break. But we will be back then. And when we come back, publishing on Wednesdays. instead of Thursdays, which I know. will make a really, I don't want. to say a crucial difference in your life,

but the impact will be sensational. And we're delighted, because it's. the wrap up episode of the year, we're going to do a wrap up type thing. We're going to grab a couple of our favorite pundit type. individuals and talk to them about how they're viewing. about the year in rewind and how they're feeling in terms. of optimism for the future. I'm sure it's going to be all rosy people. That's how we've been living this thing. So let's get to them right away and jump into our year.

in review episode. Here we go. [MUSIC PLAYING]. Ladies and gentlemen, what would a year end wrap up. be without two media moguls? Moguls, that's right. You heard me. Moguls. I don't throw that word around lightly. I mean it in the sincerest form. Jon Favreau, founder of Crooked Media and host. of Pod Save America, and Tim Miller, host of The Bulwark podcast. Gentlemen, welcome. TIM MILLER: What's up? JON FAVREAU: Thanks for having me. JON STEWART: Thank you for taking. time from your media empires. JON FAVREAU: Mm.

TIM MILLER: Yeah, it's upstairs in my house. My kid's room is right over there. JON FAVREAU: Is it really? TIM MILLER: Oh yeah. JON STEWART: That's the beauty of podcasting. Favreau, by the way, mentioned this earlier. He has to-- let me talk about what a sucker this. motherfucker is. He has to get in a car and drive--. JON FAVREAU: Yeah. JON STEWART: --to some place of business--. JON FAVREAU: In LA, no less. JON STEWART: --where he breathes shared air. TIM MILLER: [LAUGHS]. JON FAVREAU: With others. TIM MILLER: Well, it's a progressive outlet. so there are a couple masked-- couple of people wearing masks. JON STEWART: Oh, there's always two.

There's always two. And you always say, oh, are you sick? And they go, "Uh, I don't want to talk about it.". And then you have to move along. Gentlemen, as a year end in review, let me ask you this. We shall begin with this. I think it's the question of the era. How many years has this year been? Tim, you go first. TIM MILLER: Who could say? I don't know. Like, on the one hand, I'm like, how is it Christmas?

I haven't bought a single present yet. And on the other hand, I feel like every day is a lifetime. And so I don't have a great answer to that, but it's been a slog, I'll tell you that. It's been a slog. JON STEWART: It is a slog. Favreau, how are you holding up? JON FAVREAU: I'm holding up OK. It's been a long year, but it's also been like a long decade. I'm really feeling the fact that we've been dealing. with this in some form or fashion since 2015 now, and it sort of feels like that's the only life I know. [LAUGHS] So.

TIM MILLER: Yeah. JON STEWART: Guys, I didn't want to say this. I'm 24. JON FAVREAU: [LAUGHS]. TIM MILLER: Really? JON STEWART: Look what this has done to me. Look at this! JON FAVREAU: You look great. JON STEWART: I look like I sleep in a meat dehydrator, for God's sakes. JON FAVREAU: [LAUGHS]. JON STEWART: The fuck? TIM MILLER: I've got. The Kari Lake Vaseline on the lens thing to try to help me. JON STEWART: Oh, I should smooth. that and get some good diffusion that's going on here. As people, so it is the inevitable contradiction. So the rise of your media empires.

coincides with the, sort of, attention. economy that is occurring. Is it symbiotic at this point? TIM MILLER: Yeah. JON STEWART: You know, people used to say. to me during the Bush years--. I think Larry King said this to me once. George Bush gets reelected. That good for you? You hoping for that? And I was like, no, I have children, Larry. How do you separate, sort of, your professional engagement.

and success from that feeling of you're. having to wade through a turd mine to get there? JON FAVREAU: Yeah, that's a good question. [LAUGHS]. JON STEWART: We're catching Favreau on a reflective day. TIM MILLER: Deep Catholic guilt for me, it would be. JON FAVREAU: Deep Catholic--. JON STEWART: We're having a reflective day with Favreau. JON FAVREAU: I mean, look, if Donald Trump exited the scene. tomorrow and our politics returned to some semblance.

of normalcy, which probably hasn't. been normal in my whole life, but some semblance. of normalcy-- TIM MILLER: The '90s. JON FAVREAU: --and our audience went away, I would take that trade easily any day. over continuing this shitstorm that we've. been in for a decade. So that's that. TIM MILLER: Yeah. JON FAVREAU: I think what has propelled me. this year more than anything else. is just a rage [LAUGHS] at--. JON STEWART: Tim is nodding, by the way. When you said what has propelled me as a rage,

I just saw a glint of recognition. [LAUGHS]. JON FAVREAU: I'm usually like the hopeful guy. And I still have some hope, but I'm so. fucking angry that we're here and that we're. dealing with this. And that it's been as bad or worse. than we imagined in 2024, and before Donald. Trump coming back. JON STEWART: Tim, on the emotion wheel, where are you at with that? A similar kind of rage v optimism? TIM MILLER: No, no optimism. Deep abiding rage, yeah, and anger.

And I don't-- look, for me though, I also, because this has been our life, because it's been a decade, I've tried to process this as like, this is just a job now. Like, this is our life. This is it. I did everything I could think of to try to convince people. in my tiny, little way to not vote. for this person the first time, or the second time. or the third time. And I lost two out of three. And we have to deal with the consequences.

And so I get up and some days, I just am like, it's. just the lunch pail, man. It's just like, we got to get up and talk about this shit. JON STEWART: Right. TIM MILLER: And I think that's the only way to deal with it. and let the emotions-- you know, I said last year when I. was thinking about this, how was I going. to deal with it emotionally? I was like, I'm only going to get. mad and upset about the things that. make me really mad and upset. And there's a lot of, we'll talk about it on the air, there's a lot of crazy shit that happens that's bad, that's like objectively bad, but doesn't. really affect me emotionally. And I just do-- that's healthy, I think.

You can't run at 11 all the time. And then when something happens that makes me really upset, I get on here in my little hole. I walk up to my little hole and I get upset with people. JON FAVREAU: Yell at a screen. TIM MILLER: Yeah, and I scream. JON FAVREAU: And you allow yourself to do that. TIM MILLER: Yeah, and I think people want. that because they're all screaming at their phones, so we might as well scream together. JON STEWART: Two things from that that I find interesting. One is, so Tim, your frustration, you were coming at it from the Trump voters.

were inside the house. TIM MILLER: Yeah. JON STEWART: You were coming at it from a more. conservative perspective. I think for Jon and I, it always felt. like an oppositional place. Our frustration probably went more towards, how can you not, to the Democrats, present a more coherent and thoughtful and affirmative. case other than, I think this guy is fucking nuts? Don't you-- doesn't everybody see that?

But having that happen, I don't want to throw this to the Mets, but the Mets recently lost Edwin Diaz to the Dodgers. That's what it feels like to be a Democrat, to be a Mets fan. But you're coming at it, you were on the Dodgers. TIM MILLER: Yeah, I don't do baseball metaphors, but I'm going to go with you on that. JON STEWART: [LAUGHS] It's all I have, Tim! TIM MILLER: I'm going to make it--. I'm going to do holidays. It's a family feud, you know what I mean? JON STEWART: Yes. TIM MILLER: It's more personal. I'm pissed. JON STEWART: That's interesting. TIM MILLER: It's more personal and you get more upset.

Not that you guys-- you know what I mean? But, like, there's just some-- there's. a different level of valence. There's like the narcissism of small differences, is that phrase. JON STEWART: Right. TIM MILLER: I get the most mad at the most normal Republicans, if that makes sense. JON STEWART: Sure. TIM MILLER: They are like, they know better, like Marco. and whoever, all the way down the line, the people that I knew personally. JON STEWART: Right. TIM MILLER: And I do think that in your, creates a different body response maybe, than being mad at somebody that you.

think has been stupid and wrong the whole time. JON STEWART: That's so interesting because Jon, I don't know about you, but my feeling is rage. against fecklessness, that idea of, you know, Kamala Harris. wrote a book, 107 days. I only had 107 days. I couldn't put together a coherent governance plan. And you're like, well, it's been a year now. Like, does anyone over there have ChatGPT? Can you fucking just throw that in there? Like, hey, what's a good, affirmative liberal case. for econ-- like, what's your frustration? JON FAVREAU: It is with that.

Maybe not primarily, because I do think like you have to, you know, Republicans and Republican politicians. have agency and so do voters. Look, it's been 10 years of this. All of us are to blame. JON STEWART: [LAUGHS] JON FAVREAU: You know? Like--. JON STEWART: Oh, you're in a dark hole, man. You're in a dark hole. JON FAVREAU: But you know, and we all. try to blame someone else but it's like, we all have. a little stink on us here. JON STEWART: Sure. JON FAVREAU: You know, voters, media, Democrats, Republicans. But no, I do--. I am very, I find myself very frustrated with the Democratic. Party and Democratic politicians.

because I just, I can't believe we haven't fucking. figured this out yet. JON STEWART: Right. JON FAVREAU: And that we are still. making the same mistakes that we made, I don't know, in 2016 on. It's just like, we haven't learned many lessons. JON STEWART: Jon, to that point you're making, he came down the escalator in 2015, and I remember being gleeful. JON FAVREAU: Same. JON STEWART: I thought, oh my God, Yosemite Sam has just entered the race, a cartoon villain.

I mean, who chooses the escalator, the least powerful. mode of getting downstairs? You might as well come down on a fire pole. And then he comes out, and he's, Mexicans. are this and blah, blah, blah. And I thought, oh, this is just going. to be a funny circus that we're all going to enjoy ourselves. And 10 years later--. did you guys watch any of the rally last night? JON FAVREAU: Oh, yeah. Unfortunately, I watched the whole thing. TIM MILLER: Yeah, yeah, that's the lunch pail part of the job. we were talking about earlier. JON STEWART: [LAUGHS].

TIM MILLER: I only did--. I did a strong 14 minutes I think. JON STEWART: Really? TIM MILLER: It was what I could take, yeah. Maybe 16. JON STEWART: I'll tell you what jumped out to me. A, it felt a little bit like when you see a big star from 20. years ago playing a state fair, like where they go out there. and everybody's just kind of sitting there like, just fucking do "Achy Breaky Heart" and let's go. JON FAVREAU: Yeah, his heart really. wasn't in any of the affordability message.

that he was supposed to--. JON STEWART: Right. JON FAVREAU: Which he told us, which is always, you got to give him credit for that. He's like, my chief of staff is making me do this. And they're telling me not to call it a hoax, but it's a hoax. And let me show you all these charts. And he has all these charts up about inflation. and the Biden administration, and no one. really cares about the charts. And he's like--. JON STEWART: No! JON FAVREAU: He's like, let's do one more chart. since they're playing so well. And it's like, you know, he is funny. JON STEWART: [LAUGHS]. JON FAVREAU: That was, it's a funny joke, but his heart's not in what voters actually care about.

or what most voters actually care about. His heart's in going off on Ilhan Omar and Somalia. and immigration stuff. TIM MILLER: Yeah. JON STEWART: But that's also, if you notice for the audience, until he plays the hits--. JON FAVREAU: Yeah, that's their watchtower right there. TIM MILLER: Somalia was the good stuff. I thought, and it was really gross. And the good stuff for him, like working with the audience. He did like five minutes on Ilhan Omar last night. JON STEWART: Right. JON FAVREAU: Yup. TIM MILLER: And to me, I thought it was the most telling. because A, the crowd response was.

probably the most into that. JON STEWART: It's the crudest. TIM MILLER: Or maybe the fake four more years chant. And it's like, he needs a foe. Like, that's what it--. that's the thing he's good at. He was good at making Hillary into a foe. He's good at making Harris and Biden into foes. He's good at going after elites. He's good at going after immigrants. It's tough for him on the economy. He doesn't have a foe. Like, he tested out Jerome Powell. Like, you know whose fault it really is? This guy Jerome Powell over at the Fed. JON FAVREAU: Fed Chairman. JON STEWART: My favorite image of the year, the two of them in hard hats.

TIM MILLER: Yeah, that didn't really land. JON STEWART: And he's like, you're over budget. And Powell looks at it and he's like, that's. a different project you dumb fuck. TIM MILLER: Yeah, Somalians are much more. in line with the type of thing that his folks. are going to respond to. JON FAVREAU: It's not just that his heart wasn't in it. though, it's that I think he has become. even more out of touch in this second term. and in the first year. TIM MILLER: For sure. JON FAVREAU: Like, he's doing the, last night he was doing the, your kids don't need 37 dolls. We're like two weeks out from Christmas, you know?

TIM MILLER: Only two or three. How's that going at your house? JON STEWART: It's the economy is the best it's ever been. You're all doing amazing. Make your children at Christmas cry. JON FAVREAU: And also, like, I just fired the architect. for my new ballroom because he couldn't build. it big enough or fast enough. So while I'm--. JON STEWART: Or gold enough. JON FAVREAU: Yeah, I'm using gold leaf all over the White. House, but you know. Two dolls. Two dolls maximum. TIM MILLER: Two dolls, maybe three. JON FAVREAU: Maybe three.

JON STEWART: So I'm going to throw out to the centers. I'm going to inject a little bit of that MDMA in this thing. I'm going to throw a little bit of ecstasy into the room. The thing that it strikes me as, and the reason why I bring up the state. fair analogy, that the vein of this that's so tapped. into something deep and dark in the American spirit. seems to be waning. That, if you look at somebody in--.

he's an authoritarian, right? He wants to run this thing. He wants us to be more like Russia. and more like Orban and all those things. Generally, authoritarians, in their first year, are legitimately popular, that the things that the, I'm going to take care of the drug dealers. and I'm going to kill the-- and I'm. going to deport the Somalis and all those things that. are the trappings of a more darker, authoritarian thing, usually play pretty well in the countries.

where they're deployed. He's not that popular. And is that the thing that maybe gives you a little bit. of like, oh, wait a minute. Maybe this lunchpail shit we're doing, maybe it's working, or maybe it's his own incoherence. that's causing this. TIM MILLER: Yeah, I think it's own incoherence. I'll maybe take a half dose of the MDMA. JON STEWART: [LAUGHS]. [MUSIC PLAYING]. Hey, kids, this holiday season, you don't have.

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Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Over 35GB, may slow when network is busy. Capable device required. Availability, speed and coverage varies. See mintmobile.com. [MUSIC PLAYING]. TIM MILLER: Because I'm with you on him on--. he's made a lot of problems for himself. I think that the nativism and the kind of right wing. authoritarianism, I don't know if that's going anywhere. I think--. JON STEWART: That still-- that holds its appeal. TIM MILLER: Yeah, you gotta hang around some young MAGA. voters for any length of time, and you'll.

see the trajectory we're on, that is, that's still scary. But Trump himself, like the ability for him. to control power, I look back at the year and in some ways, I think about that inauguration picture with him. with all the tech billionaires. JON FAVREAU: Yup. JON STEWART: Mhm. JON FAVREAU: I think about that all the time. TIM MILLER: And I think maybe the seeds of his demise. were really right there. Like, I do think that he has lost touch. with the types of people that came into his coalition. late, who really were pissed about inflation, who really.

were kind of pissed about the way. the COVID governance happened. You know, these kind of young men. that we all talk about who are more libertarian-ish. But they had economic concerns and they. didn't like the establishment. And Trump ends up like ensconcing him. with like the richest people in the world, and doing them favors and doing nothing to actually. help regular people. And I think you're seeing the results of that. and his numbers going down. I don't know that he's lost the core MAGA base, like people. that are injecting Newsmax into their veins.

or have not turned on him yet. But like that layer of people, the manosphere types. and Hispanic voters and other folks who like, came in in this last time, who voted for him the third time. but maybe didn't the first or second time, I think that he's really alienated them. And it's hurting his political standing for sure. JON FAVREAU: Yeah, I think his political standing is probably. weaker than it's been at any time in the last decade, save for after he tried to foment an insurrection.

at the capital. JON STEWART: [LAUGHS]. JON FAVREAU: Don't want to forget that. TIM MILLER: It was pretty dicey there for about a couple. of weeks, about two weeks there. JON STEWART: I can't believe that that's been reduced. to some sort of subtextual footnote, that there was also that, if I remember correctly, there was when he tried to overthrow. the government of the United States of America, violently. JON FAVREAU: Yeah it was that and then right behind it, concerns over inflation. JON STEWART: Yes. No, absolutely. JON FAVREAU: But yeah. So politically, he's rarely been weaker,

but he's also never had more power than he does right now. And so my concern is that-- so the good news is definitely, I'll take the full hit of MDMA on this. JON STEWART: All right, bring it. TIM MILLER: There you go, bud. JON FAVREAU: Getting some more water. JON STEWART: Let's hit the rave, man. Hit the rave. JON FAVREAU: [LAUGHS] Yeah, I think the off-year election. showed us that I feel, like, relatively. hopeful about the midterms because of this. But I do think that he and the people around him. also are not going to let go of power easily.

And he is going to--. he has proven in the past that the more cornered he is, the more dangerous he is. And so if I'm looking ahead to next year and the year. after, what I worry most about is. that he lashes out and abuses his power in ways that. are even more harmful and dangerous to the country. as he gets weaker politically. JON STEWART: You think that as he's more cornered, it'll do. Because I'm always struck by that juxtaposition. that you're talking about. When you think about the shit that he's done,

like, OK, January 6, and there's no question. that January 6 was the culmination of a two month. strategy to overturn that election in any way. possible that it could. Then, there's the, I've got the Epstein files, the QAnon sort. of power that surged through my campaign. and got me to like-- but I'm not doing that because I've. done doodles of pubic hair with like, messages of like, and please don't tell anybody about all the girls we fuck. Like, all those different things, and we. line up all the unbelievably like unprecedented through 250.

years of attempted Republic governance of a country, a historical consent of the governed experiment. that we're trying, and we lay it all out there. and the uptake of it is always like, so I think we're going to do better in the midterms. JON FAVREAU: [LAUGHS] Yeah. TIM MILLER: And not even that good actually. I don't know that we're going to take the Senate. Like, we're going to do a little better in the midterms.

Maybe one house, not the other. JON STEWART: What has happened to our zeal, our revolutionary goals of like, have we been reduced to a guy overturning, you know, a unitary executive overturning everything? And the best we can hope for is like, there's a swing district. in Georgia that I think is really, I'll tell you, they're primed if we just get a centrist in there. Like, has she beaten us down?

JON FAVREAU: I mean, the concern, and this is where. I get annoyed with Democrats, is the concern I have is. we are in a cycle where one party takes power, and then they don't deliver in a way that. solves people's concerns and alleviates their distrust. in their government. And so then, the party in power gets thrown out, and then the other party comes back in. And that would be difficult enough. for democracy, if both parties were normal political parties,

but we are playing a bit of Russian roulette. with these parties because one of them. wants an authoritarian takeover of the country, which. is the one in power right now. And so for Democrats, there is a way to look at this, like you. just did, Jon, which is, OK, can he's. going to be unpopular because he has not fixed people's. chief concern, which is costs and inflation. and affordability. And so based on that, we can maybe take back the House, maybe take back the Senate, but maybe not.

Right? JON STEWART: [LAUGHS] Right. JON FAVREAU: And then hopefully, eke out a victory. in 2028, but only if we focus only on these economic concerns. that people have. OK, that's fine, but that is continuing. to put a Band-Aid on a wound. JON STEWART: A gaping wound. JON FAVREAU: A gaping wound that we've. had for a decade now. And if we don't have leaders who speak to the broader. set of challenges that we have as a country, and not just the ones that voters are saying that they. care most about-- which are important--.

but if we don't have that larger. narrative and that larger vision, then we're going to end up right back here. TIM MILLER: I want to say one thing. about the revolutionary zeal. I think it was your phrase, Jon, because, like--. JON STEWART: Please know, Tim, that I am. very careless with my wording. So just know that whatever it is that I said, I take it back. TIM MILLER: No that's great. I'm right. We need revolutionary zeal. JON STEWART: Then that's what I meant. TIM MILLER: Yeah, maybe--. [LAUGHS] you know, maybe you can be the leader. of the revolutionary zeal. I don't know, because here's my frustration. with Democrats, which is like, we're in year 10 of this.

And the last two successful political figures. in this country, meaningfully successful--. sorry to gas up Favreau right now. I really hate to do that. But it's like, a guy who's named Barack Hussein Obama, who. ran as like, the ocean should recede. and the red states-- and I'm gonna. be the first Black president. And you know, we're not--. like, like very grand ambitions, like--. JON STEWART: Audacity of hope. TIM MILLER: Exactly. And then it's Donald Trump, who's like a reality show host. bigot, who's like, we're gonna build the wall. and arrest our opponents. Like, neither of them were going at all.

by normal political playbook. And they tried-- they tried something new. The establishment and conventional wisdom. and the pundits mocked them. And they won-- including myself, in both cases. And they won overwhelmingly. And it's like, can we learn something from that? Like could somebody try to try? I'm desperate for somebody to try--. JON FAVREAU: Just try. Try something new. TIM MILLER: It might not land. It might not be my preferred policies--. JON STEWART: I've got someone for you, Tim.

TIM MILLER: --great center left, former Republican radical. It might not be that but-- and we just-- and there's. not a lot of trying out there of giving people something. to get excited about. JON STEWART: I'm gonna sing you a song, Tim. I didn't want to have to do this, but I'm gonna sing you a song. (SINGING) Mamdani, whoa. TIM MILLER: Yeah, well, she was born in Uganda, unfortunately. So we've got limited cap on his ambitions. JON STEWART: But isn't that the thing you're talking about? So I think structurally, we are more set up for what you.

guys are talking about now. So we're-- we are in a joint custody agreement now. It used to be sort of shared custody. Now it's a complete-- you know, I mean, a shared custody. Sometimes dad gets the country, sometimes mom gets the country, but there is no real interaction. It is not-- what do they call it? A conscious uncoupling. This has been a-- it's one of those divorces. that has a lot of vituperative elements to it. But the structure is also set up now so that these pendulum.

swings that you guys are talking about--. to go from Barack Hussein Obama to Donald Trump. is-- you know, we keep having those pendulum. reactions to one another. But now those pendulum swings are set up to be--. the gap between them is much more, especially. if the Supreme Court grants the executive the ability to come. in and just wipe out the entire government, everybody that comes in there. So depending on which billionaires are the ones that. are victorious in whatever they do there, aren't we set up,

actually, not for the thing that-- that we're all talking. about, which is a healing candidate that brings. an affirmative case that finds a way to break. through this kind of attention, the economy fog that we've all. lived in, aren't we-- aren't we in for a little bit. of a rougher cycle than that? TIM MILLER: Maybe. JON FAVREAU: We certainly could be. TIM MILLER: I was worried about this. Favreau's new friend, Ben Shapiro, he's been on multiple panels with him recently.

But I was watching Ben. And he was like, rationalizing Trump. I forget who he was in an interview with. It might have been-- but he was rationalizing Trump. by saying that he thinks we're gonna go through the cycle you. just laid out, Jon Stewart. He's like, we're gonna have, you know, kind of an authoritarian-ish right-wing person, followed by an authoritarian-ish left. wing person. And if that's gonna be the cycle, then I've got no choice but to sign up. for the authoritarian right-wing person. And I just-- I do think there are a lot of forces out there. that are like, incentivizing that dynamic.

And-- and so I worry about that. And I-- and that is like, part of the reason why I am like, trying to, you know, gently encourage opponents to Donald. Trump to have some positive ambition, or else I think that we could end up there. And I don't want to. I didn't leave one authoritarian side. to join up with another one. JON STEWART: See, that's where Tim and I, we disagreed a little bit because I was--. I was more down with that. TIM MILLER: You're down? JON STEWART: I was more down with--. not authoritarian necessarily. By the way-- and I say this in no way to scare.

anybody except myself--. there is a giant bee. JON FAVREAU: Oh. JON STEWART: And at first I thought, oh, look. at that giant bee outside. And now he's on my phone. And I realize, oh, he's not outside. And-- and he's not healthy. TIM MILLER: Is this a metaphor? JON STEWART: I wish it was. I think it's-- there's a giant--. JON FAVREAU: Do you want to kill it? JON STEWART: --clearly unhealthy--. JON FAVREAU: Or let it go? Or just-- or just wish it away? JON STEWART: I want to find out what's wrong.

[LAUGHTER]. I want to diagnose--. JON FAVREAU: You want to help it. JON STEWART: I want to help this bee desperately. Not to derail anybody, but if you find me at any point, while you're talking, going, oh, my God! That's why. And I apologize to Rob Vitolo for blowing. out the sound just now. JON FAVREAU: When the bee came in, I think you were saying that you wanted a left-wing Franco. JON STEWART: Yes. JON FAVREAU: TIM MILLER: You wanted. kind of like a Democratic Franco to just shake things up. JON STEWART: Yeah. I mean, I say that sort of, you know, facetiously.

What I want is a Democrat who understands that government's. role is partially to be a check against corporate power, not a lubricant for it, that when you have-- government. does the shit corporations won't. or can't do, like health care. So like, when we talk about, you know, Obamacare or like, setting up an insurance pool to all that, like, I want government to understand the lesson.

that every other industrialized, sophisticated. country understands. The market for health care is inevitably broken. It doesn't work. And therefore, you have to accept that, like they've all accepted. We're the only ones who haven't accepted it. And we see our costs skyrocket. So if a more robust executive can use the bully pulpit.

to push through, what-- like what Jon was talking about. earlier, a policy that could actually solve the problem. that we're facing, rather than kind of just adding more. liquidity to a system that we have, that is already broken through the externalities. that capitalism doesn't fix, Tim, does that sound dystopian to you? JON FAVREAU: Not dystopian, no. JON STEWART: But Tim? Tim? JON FAVREAU: --the details. I'd like to-- I'd like to hear--. I'd like to see your white paper, sir.

No, that's-- that's right. TIM MILLER: You do need a white paper for that. [THEME MUSIC]. JON STEWART: Hey, folks, it's December. It snuck up on us, which means it's. holiday time, which means I'm already late in terms. of getting gifts. And I-- I will be late. And then I'll get some sort of a gift card. And then it won't be used. And then I will feel shame, only shame. But I gotta tell you something. If you're looking for an actual gift, one. that people will actually like, Aura Frames. They're just digital picture frames, right?

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Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. [THEME MUSIC]. JON FAVREAU: Look, this is a choice. that the next Democratic nominee. and hopefully, president is going to have to make, which is Donald Trump has taken a sledgehammer. to whatever was left of government when he got there. And he has politicized everything. And Democrats, you know, one style and one piece of advice. have been, you gotta fight.

You got to be-- you gotta--. they don't play by the rules. Why should we play by the rules? And in some cases, you know, I agree with that. I think that Democrats take the Senate, then--. and we have a Democratic president--. we should get rid of the filibuster. immediately because there is gonna be no other way to pass. legislation where Democrats aren't. getting 60 votes in the Senate, probably. in the next decade, more. TIM MILLER: They could try. I'd like to throw that out there. JON FAVREAU: They can try. JON STEWART: You're saying they could try to get elected? TIM MILLER: Trying to win some races in red states.

JON FAVREAU: But honestly, it's gonna be uphill at this point. to get to 51, right? And so we're gonna need get rid of the filibuster. On other hand, it's like, OK, who's. the next attorney general? Do we want someone who's gonna, like, go after all of the MAGA people like they went after Democrats? Or are we actually the Party that believes in a government. that works and that people can have faith in and trust in. and believe isn't politicized? And so you're gonna have someone like that. And then if you do that, then that. gets a whole bunch of people really pissed off because now.

you're not fighting hard enough. Right? So there-- there are real choices for the next Democrat. to make because of what Donald Trump has done. Do you get rid of all the people, all the--. the crazies in the Trump administration? Yeah, I probably would. But like, what if someone-- what if he installed someone. as Fed chair who's really bad, but now. you're a Democratic president, you're. going to fire the Fed chair, and that's. gonna screw up the markets. Maybe you do that anyway. But these are I think, the next--. I think we are underestimating right now, the choices that the next set of Democratic candidates. have to make in regard to like, what kind of country.

they want beyond--. JON STEWART: Tim's not having it. TIM MILLER: No, I am having it. This is my kind of-- now--. JON STEWART: I'm not having it. All right, then--. TIM MILLER: This is my kind of hardball. My question is, Favs's optimism is showing, like, that--. I mean, isn't JD Vance or Donald. Trump, Jr. gonna be in charge of the next Fed chair? JON FAVREAU: Oh, yeah, maybe. TIM MILLER: Democrats need to actually convince. people and win, you know? But this is nice. JON FAVREAU: Tim, I'm talking about, like, these things will be hashed out in the campaign--. TIM MILLER: OK. JON FAVREAU: --before you go. That's why I said "Democratic candidate.".

Like, this is gonna be a conversation. we're having in '27. JON STEWART: Maybe this, though, is-- is kind of the viewpoint of it, which is--. and I hear this a lot from the Democratic Party. is-- we've gotta get rid of the filibuster. or we've gotta pack the Supreme Court. And what I don't hear a lot of is, to what end? JON FAVREAU: Yeah. TIM MILLER: Right. JON STEWART: So when they say, we're. gonna get rid of the filibuster, I go, oh, great, what are you gonna pass? I think we're gonna pass an extension of subsidies. to insurance companies that does not in any way. address the broken health care and insurance market system.

And then we're gonna continue along with the kind of failed. legislation that does not address, in an agile way, the needs of the people. you purport to represent. And that's where-- this is my largest problem. And Tim, I'm so curious about you, though, because you're in this kind of-- it. starts out as a diaspora. TIM MILLER: Yeah. JON STEWART: And I imagine that you begin. to have more affection for sort of the Democratic side,

not to suggest like a Stockholm syndrome, but it's sort of like-- you know, I don't know if you've seen Cheryl Hines on any interviews. recently. TIM MILLER: Oh, yeah. JON STEWART: She was like a dyed in the wool liberal, you know, all these different things. And now she's just like, MAGA opened her heart to me--. TIM MILLER: Yeah. JON STEWART: --and the liberals turned their backs on me. And you're like, right, because you're useful to them. You agree with them now, so they embrace you. Look at the shit they're saying about other people. Like, for you, has the embrace of liberals.

changed you politically? Do you still feel the same kind of political mindset? Or are you in a diaspora? Like, where-- where are you? TIM MILLER: Yeah, it's changed me some. Like, anybody who's like, Donald Trump getting elected. twice did not change my ideology at all, I think that's a sign of a really small thinker. It's like, I don't know why, in a society, we have to be like, oh, the way to show that you're moral. and trues is to-- to have the exact same views when.

you're 22 as when you're 82. Like, that is what a principled person does. So yeah, I've changed some. There are certain things in particular, like Republican. things that were just--. I didn't care about that much, but I just like, signed up. for the team on issues that like, were not high priorities for me, that I'm like, you know, you get a little time to think about them. and you change your views. I'm way more open--. I've-- also I've been around way more rich people. and important people lately. And I'm way less impressed with them than when I was 22.

And so like--. JON FAVREAU: --you were ever impressed with him. TIM MILLER: Yeah, I'm much more open to, you know, extreme--. extensive taxation of the wealthy. than I was when, you know, I was--. I was convinced by the pull you up-- pull-- pull up myself. up from the bootstraps stuff that I, you know, learned as a college Republican. So I've had some changes. But there's also stuff I think that-- look, I think that--. and you guys, I'm sure, agree with this. I haven't gone full native. The Democrats have not done a good job.

governing a lot of the places where they're. in charge of everything. So I'm not on board for everything. the Democrats have done. I lived in San Francisco. I lived in Oakland. But I lived in the Bay for a while. The Bay wasn't governed that great. And now they've got Lurie in, who's more of a center guy, and I think things are getting better. So I'm not on-- you know, Chicago's not being. governed that great, right? I don't think that the National Guard should go in. and that we should have the, you know, jackbooted thugs. menacing people. But I don't think the mayor of Chicago. is doing a particularly great job. And I think Pritzker would have questions about that. if he were to run for president.

So you know, I've had some changes. And I think that, just going back to your Zohran point about. how Democrats could think about this, Zohran's-- like, Zohran's messaging is grand. And like, the movement is grand. But the ambitions, like, aren't that grand, right? It's like, free-- it's tangible stuff for people. It's free buses. It's rent control. It's we're gonna cut some of the red tape. so that your-- you know, the food-- food, you know, truck guys can survive-- you know, can survive, the halal trucks. Right? And so, you know, I'm fully on board with all that.

I think it would be a big risk for the Democrats to come in. and say, we just listed out all the things that need change. It's like, OK, well, we're gonna put in the Swedish health. care system? Sure. I would be fine. I'm fine with that. I have no love for this current health care system. I'm not gonna go to the mats over that. But like, you know, that's gonna be a rocky transition. And that might lead us right back into a MAGA--. to MAGA 2032. And so I just mean that like, there's. a lot of stuff to consider. It's-- it's complicated.

JON FAVREAU: So Tim and I joke that our politics. have sort of moved now so that we have the same politics. Like, I've moved towards Tim and he's moved towards me. And so we don't disagree on anything anymore. TIM MILLER: --bad clip for you on TikTok. JON FAVREAU: I know. You know what? This is part of it. TIM MILLER: When you run for governor in California--. JON FAVREAU: Tim, this is part of it. I-- I don't give a shit. I don't give a shit. But one way that I've sort of rethought my own priors on this. is the delivering on the campaign promises.

is just as important as the boldness of the promises. that you make. And so I do-- like, when I think back to the 2020 primary. on the Democratic side, on health care, to stay with that example, it was an entire-- every single. debate, every single time they all got on stage, it was, they were debating the finer. points of various Medicare-for-all proposals. And if you didn't have Bernie's, you. had to explain why you were lesser than Bernie, and why you weren't as committed.

to health as Bernie was. Everyone on that stage knew, including Bernie, probably, that you're never gonna pass. just a clean Medicare for all. Some people had pretty bold plans. that would be just light years better than we are right now, you know, the-- thinking of, like, Pete Buttigieg was like. Medicare for all who want it. So you have a Medicare program. You could have people choose into it, and then it slowly kills off the insurance system, right? That would be amazing. But-- so we're debating all this stuff. Joe Biden wins. And what do we get? We get an extension of the health care subsidies.

because that's all that passed. Right? Now, what do you think that means? JON STEWART: Oh, and they also got to negotiate the price. of four different drugs. JON FAVREAU: Four drugs, yeah. And the other ones are coming soon. JON STEWART: Coming. You won't believe it. JON FAVREAU: And so do you think-- like, what do you think that does to all the voters. who were thinking, oh, we had this big debate about health. care, and then we win in 2020, so there's. gonna be real change coming. Like, I'm pretty excited about this. And so-- and I think the Mamdani point is instructive. here, which is, Mamdani's success is gonna, like, completely hinge on whether he delivers.

the promises that he made. That sounds obvious, but like, if he can't do free buses, if he can't freeze the rent, then it's not like, you know, people's fears are like, oh, he's a, you know, Muslim socialist who's gonna, you know, institute Sharia law. No, the real fear is that he just. doesn't manage the City well and doesn't. deliver on his promises. And so therefore, it deepens cynicism. and it makes people less likely to participate in politics. And so I do think that our ability. to deliver on the promises we make. has to be as important as the promises themselves.

And so you need a path, a realistic path to get. where you say you want to go. JON STEWART: And a coherence to it. I mean, one of the things that strikes. me about this administration--. I'd love for you guys to think about it--. is the utter incoherence. He's a wonderful announcement president. He makes great announcements. We're gonna have-- we're gonna cut drug. prices by a thousand percent. He never actually follows up on it. China is gonna buy more of our farmer soybeans. than in the history of soybeans.

You're gonna have to-- we may have to plow over Omaha. to plant more soybeans because of how much China's gonna buy, and then they don't. And then Karoline Leavitt goes out and says, under Biden, China didn't purchase any soybeans, just a flat-out fucking lie. They actually purchased more than they're purchasing now. Does coherence-- there has to be a price for incoherence. There has to be a price for somebody who's going to get us. in a war to stop drug trafficking. while pardoning a guy who literally moved mountains.

of cocaine into America. Surely, coherence has to be a part of this at some point. Surely. And stop calling me Shirley. TIM MILLER: Surely? I don't know about surely. JON FAVREAU: I mean, I think he's paying the price for it. right now in his approval ratings. And we saw it in the off-year elections. Like, there is-- there is a price to it. But I think that the key is, and what's frustrating, is there's only a price to it when you are lying to people. about something that they know you're lying.

about because they're experiencing. it in their own lives, right? And so him going out there last night and being like, it's an A-plus, plus, plus economy. and affordability's a hoax, like, that is. going to hurt him with voters. It is hurting him with voters. On the other hand, when he says like, well, I'm getting the worst of the worst. off the streets for immigrants. If, like-- if you don't live in a community. where ICE has been raiding the community, and he's telling you that these immigrants, you know, committed all these horrible crimes, and now he's cleaning them up, you know, it's more possible for you to believe that bullshit. because you're not experiencing it in your own lives.

So I do think that the-- the economic trouble that he's. facing is the first-- is the thing. he can't run from with just all of his usual bullshit. JON STEWART: Well, some of it, too, is sowing the seeds of our destruction. I mean, you know, how do you make. America stronger by completely gutting our research capacity--. JON FAVREAU: Right. JON STEWART: --in-- in anything. So maybe these things don't-- don't pile up. Tim, what do you think is the thing that's going to start. to create a sense-- because even when we say, like, he's not that popular, like, I don't understand how he's even.

in the 30s, quite frankly. TIM MILLER: Yeah, the research thing that makes me sad, I just want to say one sentence on that because like, some of the stuff that's been the most. destructive that he's done actually. isn't gonna matter at all. And that's really-- that gets you into a dark place, into wanting to have some bourbon because you know, like, we won't even know. Like, we won't ever really be able to say, right, like, was it because of that cut that we weren't able to deal. with this disease or that we weren't. able to have this discovery that we could have had? And then on the USAID cuts on top.

of that and all the vulnerable people. throughout the world who've died. And, you know, Cheryl Hines doesn't understand why liberals. are mad at her, you know. JON STEWART: Well, that was the most even--. I saw-- I think it was Nicholas Kristof made a great point, which is, for all the MAGA people that are upset. about Nigeria attacking Christians, like, nothing will kill more Christians in Africa. than cutting off USAID. So-- TIM MILLER: That's sad. JON STEWART: Nothing. Yes. TIM MILLER: But I don't think that will matter. To me, what has mattered--. you know, and I spent a decent amount of time, like,

listening to like, MAGA-adjacent media. to try to see what's, like, resonating. And for them, like-- or listening to Marjorie Taylor. Greene lately for-- you know, like, there. there was a genuine feeling--. like, the America First thing really. did resonate with people. And--. JON STEWART: As it has for a hundred and fifty years. TIM MILLER: Yeah. And there's obviously, there's some racist elements. to that, that I just--. I deplore. But like, just this idea that the government doesn't care. about us, it cares too much about the elites, cares too much about our foreign, you know, adventurism.

and militarism, and I think that you think that Trump, as I. mentioned before, with like, having all the tech guys being. his new BFFs, bombing people in Venezuela, blocking the Epstein files, you know, caring more about his Peace Prize. than he cares about the food bank lines in Kentucky, like, I think that is his real vulnerability, that he seems to just be kind of just. like any of the other elites that have let people down. And-- and it would be-- for the Democrats.

to best capitalize that, they'd need. to find a messenger who can, without the racist parts, speak to that, right? Like, speak to the fact that, like, I do care--. JON STEWART: But without the racist parts, where's the zhuzh? TIM MILLER: Yeah. JON STEWART: You got no zhuzh on that. TIM MILLER: Yeah, it's not as fun. JON STEWART: Is that-- is--. Jon, when you think about sort of-- because I--. you guys live more in the world of these pundits. Tell me about the conversation that occurs not on television,

where people-- how many times does Marjorie Taylor. Greene just recently say, you won't believe. what Republicans say about Donald Trump. when they're not on television? Or you won't believe the things that they say to me? You know, what-- what is the conversation. below the conversation. TIM MILLER: Yeah, Favs, what's-- what's Ben Shapiro. saying to you in the green room when you guys are hanging out? [LAUGHTER]. JON FAVREAU: We're so tight now. JON STEWART: Because I've always said this. The real news is what people are talking about. in the green room of the news network,

not the sort of performative news that you see, you know, being delivered every night. That's where the truth is. JON FAVREAU: Yeah. I mean, I think on the Democratic side, look, I try to d my whole goal is to narrow. the gap between on-mic conversations. and the off-mic conversations. But honestly, on the Democratic side, the conversation is like, what are we--. we don't have anyone for 2028. What are we gonna do? [LAUGHTER]. Like, no one-- like, people can-- this is why I'm trying.

to be honest about this. Like, people-- people can tell you. that they're really impressed with one candidate. or the other, or they think this one's gonna win. or this one has a chance, but it's like-- it's. either something that you say in public to not piss everyone. off, or it's something you tell yourself to make yourself feel. better, and like, you sort of get to the point. where you're like, yeah, I could. get on board with this one. I could maybe get on board. This could work. JON STEWART: So when Democrats say, I'm so impressed by our deep bench, they're completely lying? JON FAVREAU: I think-- either to themselves. or to other people. I-- you know, I will say I am not.

impressed with the deep bench. TIM MILLER: Some people are definitely lying to themselves. I guess-- like, I had a Democratic-- a very prominent. Democratic strategist--. I don't want to embarrass him-- but like, he gave me the deep bench thing, just like a month ago. And I was like, what are you talking about? Are you serious? I was like, is this a bit? And he's like, no. So some of them have convinced themselves. And by the way, Trump could fuck everything up. so bad that it doesn't matter. JON FAVREAU: It's a big bench. There's a lot of people on it. JON STEWART: Do you have a sense of of--. with the Republicans, like when Marjorie Taylor Greene comes.

out now, nobody tells the truth until they. decide not to run anymore. And even then, people are a little bit reticent. So when they talk about that, you know, we can all relate it to kind of the Emperor's New Clothes. Like, is anyone ever going to say it. when it still means something, that the emperor has. no clothes? Or are we-- are we really sentenced. to this sort of backroom conversation. that is the real conversation? Like, I would love to know--. And I know Tim, you recently had a spat with Scott.

Jennings-- but like, I would love to know, in his quiet moments, when the demogorgons visit at night, like, what he really thinks about all this shit 'cause. certainly-- like Dan Bongino, recently now, as the FBI deputy. director, said, oh, all that conspiracy. shit, well, I was being paid. JON FAVREAU: Yeah. JON STEWART: I was being paid to lie to you. and stir up discontent and trouble and-- and all kinds.

of other incredibly negative emotions. to undercut the authority of the United States government. But now that I'm in it, I just want to let you. know, like, we're all good. TIM MILLER: Yeah, I guess--. I'll just-- look, these guys don't talk to me. as much as they did the first term, you'll be surprised to know. So I have like, a somewhat-limited vantage point. Our boy Scott Jennings, I think he's--. I think he's Vonnegutted it himself. I think he's become the person he pretended to be. So I don't know that he has quiet moments, to be honest. Maybe he does, but I don't know. I think that what you're seeing, though,

like, where you can kind of get a little peek into what's. happening, is in the frustration from the House. of Representatives members. It wasn't just MTG. Nancy Mace has spoken out about this recently. Elise Stefanik's running away, running for governor. A bunch of people are retiring. There's just another one from Texas today. And they all say the same-- like, they're. all saying the same things. Like, we're not doing anything, like, I don't feel like we're. accomplishing anything. And, you know, they can't blame the person. whose responsibility it is.

JON STEWART: But what is it that Nancy. Mace and Elise Stefanik thought they were going to accomplish? Like, they seem like just bomb throwers. I mean, at least Stefanik is a pretend-- like, I think underneath all that is probably. someone much more sober. But like, what exactly is Nancy Mace frustrated. about not accomplishing? TIM MILLER: Yeah, it's a great question. Look, I think part of it was, when things were going well, I think that they were happy to do what you just said, right? It's like, oh, hey, look, you know, we only drink liberal tears and go on Air Force One.

and go to the, you know, parties at the White House, and we're winners, so it doesn't matter. But Trump's-- but I think what's revealing about it is. that Trump's poor political standing. means it's not as fun anymore. And so they do want to be able to say, oh, hey, you know, whatever it is--. like, the Epstein thing was a real break for them, you know. On a variety of other issues, they. want to be able to go home and say to people, we're doing--. I am like, trying to deliver something. for you, economically. And instead, they're not doing anything. JON STEWART: Jon, do you find Democrats-- like, during the Biden cycle, did you find a very similar thing,

where all of a sudden, some Democrats. were like, you don't understand? Because I didn't see much of that. You know, none of them were-- very few people were coming out. and going like, yeah, I'm not sure this guy's up. for a reelection campaign. JON FAVREAU: Yeah, look, there was-- anyone. who was close to the White House was even privately. spinning the same shit that you would. hear in public with, like, maybe. taking it down a few notches. But like, he's-- he's tired. He has his days, but he's good. You know, I was in a meeting with the other day.

He was so smart. He-- and it was--. Yeah, it's-- it's very like, you know, participation-trophy. kind of thing. It's like--. JON STEWART: It sounds like a parent-teacher conference. You can't-- let me show you a picture. He drew this. JON FAVREAU: Remember Jill Biden, after that debate, when. she came out on stage and was like, Joe, you answered all the questions! And like everyone-- it was--. TIM MILLER: Why are we doing this? You're traumatizing me. JON FAVREAU: I know. I can't-- It's-- it's the year end--. JON STEWART: All right, all right. Sorry, sorry. Sorry, sorry. Sorry, sorry. JON FAVREAU: But anyway, yeah, no, so you didn't. But-- but people who weren't close to the White House--.

TIM MILLER: Yeah, that was the same thing. JON FAVREAU: Look, this happened-- but this. goes back to like, 2016. If people weren't close to the Clinton campaign. were like, ooh, Hillary, not a great candidate. But like, you know what? Donald Trump is so bad that she obviously has to win. And we just gotta-- we just gotta get her there. And I just-- I cannot go into another presidential cycle. where it's like, you know, the person isn't the best, but like, they've got to be better than JD Vance, and I think we can just get him there. I think we-- it's just, compare him to JD Vance. and we'll get him there. JON STEWART: Right.

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JON STEWART: Speaking of JD Vance, let's-- let's pivot for a second cause Donald Trump, well, he's 79 years old. As much as he threatens the, you know, we're gonna change the Constitution. or there's a lot of things we're looking at, that talk has quieted somewhat based on-- on popularity. And certainly, JD Vance would be seen as, as most vice presidents are, the person. that's going to inherit this. But I think most people look at JD Vance. and go, doesn't have the magic. Like, Donald Trump gets away with-- there's. a certain antibiotic resistant kind.

of being to-- to Donald Trump. Shit doesn't stick to him. He's able to get away with saying the most horrible shit, and it doesn't seem to affect-- that dude doesn't have it. And Rubio doesn't have it. So they're gonna be back to, OK, now we're. stuck with Pat Buchanan's platform, but without Trump's ability to somehow put gold leaf on it. and make people not see it.

TIM MILLER: I'm with you on that. I hope you have-- look, I don't--. maybe we can compete on this and have. some sort of competition. I don't know that there's anybody that has more. disdain for JD Vance than me. Like, I find him utterly contemptible. JON FAVREAU: I'm up there. TIM MILLER: I don't know if you asked me to like, name--. JON STEWART: You guys really do agree on everything! TIM MILLER: --name somebody in public life, your entire life, that you like less than JD Vance, and it's literally, like, mass murder-- you know what I. mean, Epstein. You know what I mean? Like, it's hard to find. JON FAVREAU: I think Stephen Miller's up there for me. TIM MILLER: Stephen Miller?

OK, so I hate Vance more. So anyway, with that big wind up, he's a learner. He's a learner. Like, you know, I think it would be-- it's a little bit. of hopium to just be like--. JON STEWART: Shape shifter. TIM MILLER: Yeah, he's a shape shifter, and he's good at it. Like, I think about him on Theo Von's. podcast, the manosphere guy from here in Louisiana. And he did fine, actually. I mean, like, it wasn't my cup of tea, but like, they did some cocaine jokes. Like, he seemed kind of-- he didn't seem scary. And I could see how he could, you know,

kind of learn how to adapt an appeal in a way. that's better than he is now. JON STEWART: But he would have to soften the-- you know, Stephen Miller is only able to be there because Donald. Trump dilutes the poison. TIM MILLER: Sure. JON FAVREAU: Yes. JON STEWART: They may not-- there may. be no difference or distance between what. they actually believe. But you can't feed that shit. I truly believe this. I'm not one of those people who believes. that America at its heart--.

I think this nativist era we're living through. is antithetical to our actual country's. spirit and-- and being. Like, I really do. I don't think people dig this. And Miller's poison has to be filtered. And Trump is the perfect vessel to be able to do that. You take that away, and when people get a real taste. of this shit, I don't know. Maybe I'm being naive.

JON FAVREAU: No, I think there's some truth to that, but I don't think--. I will agree with Tim again. I don't know that Van--. I think Vance is--. he's-- he's definitely not as good. as a vessel as Donald Trump for Stephen Miller's bullshit. But he is-- he can code switch in a different way. than-- than Donald Trump, which is, he has been part. of the elite circles in media and the never Trumper worlds. that we all have been swimming in for the last decade. And so he knows--. Like, think about him with-- against Tim.

Walz in that debate. TIM MILLER: He won. JON FAVREAU: Like, that was a nicer, more respectful. JD Vance. And the way he makes the argument for nativism is not. as, let's say, exciting as Donald Trump, but it is more cohesive and intellectualized in a way that. is targeted to people who-- like when-- you know, when he talks about--. there was this quote he was trying to explain himself. the other day, where he's like, you know, should you really--. what's wrong with not wanting your neighbors to speak English.

so if you go over for a cup of sugar, you know, you can ask them in English? And when they don't speak English, like, that's OK that they don't speak English. But really, do you want a whole town like that, of people. who don't speak your language? Right? You know? And it's like-- he's-- like, I don't--. I think it's bullshit. I laugh at it. But like, I think he is more adept at speaking. to sort of the nativist strains in Americans. than we might think. And I worry about that because that--. that coalition after Trump is going to be more ideological--.

JON STEWART: That's what I mean. JON FAVREAU: --cause Trump-- this. is more personalistic right now because it's all about Trump. This-- the post-Trump coalition will. be more ideological, more dangerous, I think, in many ways--. JON STEWART: Right. JON FAVREAU: --but maybe more-- maybe politically weaker. JON STEWART: Tucker would embody that much more cleanly--. JON FAVREAU: Yes, you're right. I agree with that. JON STEWART: --than JD Vance. He would be much more likely. JON FAVREAU: And he's more entertaining. He's like, more-- he's more genuinely--. I can't believe I'm saying this, but funnier than JD Vance. Like, JD Vance does have a stiffness to him that--.

that yeah, I don't think Tucker has. TIM MILLER: Tucker might be believing. his own bullshit now, though. I was a little more scared of Tucker a year or two ago, but I think Tucker might have seriously. had a psychotic break. And at some level, Donald Trump knows it's an act, right? Like, remember he made fun of of--. of Mike Pence for being too religious. And like, he makes fun of Stephen Miller, being like, I don't know if we'd want with this guy. We all want to know what's in his head. JON STEWART: He knows this, that it's a lot. TIM MILLER: And Tucker, might, I think, have had an actual psychotic break. JON STEWART: He may now be alone. I tell you, the moment for me--. And you know I've been a fan of his for many years.

JON FAVREAU: A long time, yeah. TIM MILLER: Oh, yeah. JON STEWART: --for a long time. For me, you know, my-- my break, obviously, with subscribing to carlson.com or whatever it is that they do. there was when he said he was attacked. by a demon and scratched. And I was like, that's weird. And then he told the story. He's like, so I'm asleep with my four hunting dogs. And I wake up with four scratches, you know, because I was fighting a demon. And I'm like, look, I'm not--. obviously, I don't want to be like Occam's razor here.

But, you know, there is a possibility--. I have dogs. I sleep with them. And I do wake up, occasionally with markings. My first thought isn't demon. It's Toby. Toby, what did you do? Toby, why would you scratch me? TIM MILLER: Maybe-- maybe that shows you're out of touch. Maybe the dem-- maybe you should. be thinking of demon, Jon. JON STEWART: No, I think the problem that he'll have is, again, there's a shape-- there's too much. of a shape-shifter element.

The whole thing about Trump was authenticity. If your career was, I'm the bow tie wearing Buckley, and now you're, I'm the Marlboro man who fights off. demons, like, that's a hard pill for Americans, I think, to swallow. JON FAVREAU: Yeah, but we don't have long memories--. [LAUGHS] is what--. JON STEWART: I'm gonna throw one out there for you. There's only one person within that coalition who. has that sort of magic that Trump has, and the kind of, like, I don't give a fuck devotion.

And that's RFK. He's the only one that possesses that, and I would think can do the most pull ups out. of any of those motherfuckers. JON FAVREAU: Too weird. TIM MILLER: The voice. JON STEWART: Voice, I'll give you. I think that might--. I don't think too weird. I think that's part of the mythology that gives him his--. it's like saying, like, Donald Trump never would have been. I mean, look at his house. He shits in a gold toilet. Nobody's gonna buy that.

JON FAVREAU: But the problem with Trump that we missed. is-- it was like, oh, he's too offensive. He's too offensive. No one is gonna do that. RFK's problem is not that he's too offensive. It's like, the whale carcass and the--. JON STEWART: Nah, I think you're falling. for sort of-- and you're falling. for monology rather than--. like, that's become the butt of a joke, like, oh, he's got a worm in his brain and a bear carcass. And I don't think that is in any way--. TIM MILLER: He's gonna to be 75.

Like, are we ever going to have a candidate again that's. not a thousand years old? JON FAVREAU: He can't be--. he can't be outsider, shaking up the system anymore. And like, if you're a weirdo but like, eh, you're gonna go in there and you're gonna--. you're gonna shake some things up, like, he's gonna. have run HHS for four years. And he'll have a-- he'll have a record. JON STEWART: But his people don't view him as weirdo. What I'm trying to say is, his people view him. as a-- like, heroic Hercules, standing.

against the tides of institutions that are. designed to kill Americans. Like, there's a mythology around that guy. that none of the other ones have. JON FAVREAU: Yeah, but like-- but he'll have to answer for, did you-- did you do anything to those institutions. over the last four years? Did you save us? JON STEWART: Will he? Does anyone have to answer for anything anymore? Isn't that the lesson of the Trump administration? JON FAVREAU: No, no, the lesson is that once you're-- when. you're out of power, it's easy to just throw. rocks at the institutions. But once you're in power, then people get pissed at you. And then they throw you out and they put someone else in.

TIM MILLER: I'm intrigued. JON FAVREAU: That's the only thing I would say. JON STEWART: No, no, no. Under his breath, I heard something. I heard something under his breath. Let me hear. Let me hear. TIM MILLER: I'm intrigued. I think Bobby versus Stuart. JON FAVREAU: Bobby versus Stuart. TIM MILLER: He just wants to do it, obviously, I think if you'd read the Olivia Nuzzi book. Like, she-- I mean, she's very honest about that. He's--. JON FAVREAU: --guys see yesterday? Cheryl says no. Cheryl says he's not running in 2028, no matter what. JON STEWART: Oh, and she's been very predictive, hasn't she, over these last--. TIM MILLER: She doesn't seem to be running the show. JON STEWART: She-- he's never gonna--. I mean, endorsing Trump, that's a bridge too far.

TIM MILLER: And then--. JON FAVREAU: He'd never stray from our marriage. TIM MILLER: Well, that's-- the voice, though, is really, I think, the saving grace. JON STEWART: That may be a political reality. for Americans that make it-- that make it harder. In your-- let's sort of try and wrap up. Is the way to change the results. we're getting from our government, do we have to change the incentive. structure around what wins?

Because the thing I noticed in Washington is, it runs on a different currency than what it's. purported kind of ideal is. It's sort of like The Washington Post. Remember The Washington Post put. up on their masthead, "democracy dies in darkness,". you know? But meanwhile, in The Washington Post boardroom, they had a list of articles and how many clicks it got, you know. And they were running on a different currency. It feels like the political system and the media,

which I sort of liken to America's immune system, if those two things are corrupted--. and I think they are--. we don't get the results that build a healthier environment. Do we need to change the incentive. structures on media, on social media, on governance? They're not rewarded down there in the same way. that you think they are. Does that sound fair to you guys?

JON FAVREAU: I think that yes, I. think you do need to change the incentive structures, for sure. But then the question is, how do you change. the incentive structures? And I think the way to change, or the best chance of changing. the incentive structures is to have someone who wins, who doesn't follow those incentive structures, and proves to everyone else that you can. run a different way and win. This is the-- you're going back to. Obama wins, Donald Trump wins. And they won based on campaigns that people would.

have guessed, before they ran, would not have been successful. And so I do think it still comes back to, in my opinion, you need a person willing to--. like, a leader willing to go outside the box and sort. of swim against those tides and show people, see, all this stuff that you think you need to win. is actually bullshit, and you can win by doing, you know, something different. TIM MILLER: Yeah. Look, Trump has revealed that like,

this structural architecture, you know, architecture of our government and society. is a lot weaker than we thought it was. And so I'm totally with you that--. JON STEWART: I am pointing and thumbs upping Tim right now. TIM MILLER: And so-- and I think that, like, a successful candidate, potentially in the future, would run on like, you know, just--. a just total reform of how to do things, right? Like-- and-- and really, like, not-- not just. kind of a marginal change, like really-- and in ways that would.

make people uncomfortable in ways that probably. make me uncomfortable. I think that's probably right. The thing that I struggle with on this, though, Jon, is like, I go a little bit back and forth. Like, I think that's obviously true if you look at Trump. The other thing, though, I think that's obviously true, that's in conflict with that, is that like, our society has went through so many worse times than the 2016. to 2024, just like putting Trump aside, like economic--. like-- like people's lived-- people's experience, living.

through-- like, you know--. JON STEWART: Except for the pandemic, I think that's probably true. The pandemic had-- had historical echoes to it. TIM MILLER: It did, for sure. But you know, I mean, look, we went through-- like, look at how Black folks were treated. throughout the entire history of the country up. through the Civil Rights Act. They didn't like, turn to, you know, their stupidest, you. know, like a stupid authoritarian, like, Black nationalist to try to overthrow the government. I just, like--. JON STEWART: Two weeks of wearing. a mask in Massachusetts and guys.

stormed it with assault rifles. TIM MILLER: Exactly. JON STEWART: I'm sure Black people were like, oh. TIM MILLER: And so to me, you think about that, and it's like, something else is happening, too, right? It's like, yeah, people are struggling. I don't want to--. I'm not trying to minimize anyone's struggles. I'm just being like, looking at a historical lens, like, what we're going through now. does not seem to match, like, the level of rage. and the political reaction to what people are going through. And why is that? And like, the phone is really the answer to that, I think. And so then like, how do you deal with that? Is that fixable?

Is that not fixable? Is that a generational thing, where. it's, our kids will be able to manage that better than we are? I don't know the answer to that. But like, that, to me, is the other element of this. JON STEWART: No, I've said that, I think, for a while, which is, the catastrophizing that occurs. when you live online, because that-- the incentive. structure of social media and all those things. is to, you know, weaponization. Like, again, I hate to go back to the Bongino thing, but like, he basically said it, like, my job.

was to make you feel like shit is completely falling apart. and we are in an existential crisis. Now my job is to try and hold things together. so I can tell you what's actually going on, and it's actually not that bad. And you almost-- you know, it's-- it's that part of it. Right. It's like, so oopsie. Oopise poopsie. But AI is gonna make that worse. And what have we done to that, rather than, again, show the government as maybe. the only powerful enough check against that power?

We've invited them into the henhouse. JON FAVREAU: Yeah. And I don't think anyone is speaking thoughtfully about AI. and how we're gonna handle it on the Democratic side at all. Like the-- even the social media stuff, to some extent, we're now fighting the last war on. that because people are moving, you know, even. off social media, towards their chat bots who. they're gonna be friends with. But like, the way we--. I mean, we talk about this, like, is it really the phones? But it's the way humans interact with one.

another, right? And if the way that we interact with each other, get information from each other, debate with each other, has fundamentally shifted, then of course, our politics. is going to change dramatically. And I think that if AI continues to push us further, you know, it could divide us further. It could make us lonelier. It could make us--. You know, have these chat bots that are obsequious, and they're gonna just flatter us the whole time. and tell us everything we want to hear--. JON STEWART: Or drive vulnerable kids to suicide.

I mean, literally drive them to suicide. JON FAVREAU: Yep. And-- and what are we gonna do? We're just gonna-- we're charging ahead so that like, the 10 people that run these companies can become, like, trillionaires and not just billionaires? TIM MILLER: --you'll have a benevolent AI president. That's what Sam Altman said. The AI is gonna poll everyone, see what everybody wants, and then do what everybody wants. Problem solved. What the hell are we needed for? JON STEWART: And none of that will ever get weaponized. by the Mercers to try and figure out exactly--. see, that's the problem. All these technologies are being weaponized.

I think it used to be--. I used to think like, oh, it's gonna be--. it used to be like, communism versus capitalism or democracy. or, you know, those various things. Then I thought it was woke versus unwoke. That was gonna be the new schism. I actually think Trump's onto something different, which. is the sort of stable world order that we had, that was based on kind of shared liberal or democratic. values, he does not in any way value. He thinks that's for pussies. His mindset seems to be, the five families.

Russia is the Gambinos. We got China over there is, you know, whoever that family is. And you know, and we're gonna divide up turf. TIM MILLER: Yeah. It's very-- it's very great powers. JON FAVREAU: Yeah, or North Jersey. JON STEWART: You know what it is? It's-- you know, if you ever watched Thomas. Shelby and you know, do you remember that show, Peaky Blinders? He had a theory of power called big fucks small.

And-- and that's what strikes me as-- so I think. this next election, what we're really gonna to be fighting. over is, is the world order gonna be the five families. dividing up the spoils? Or are we gonna try and go back to a more. stable, liberal thing? But I don't think that can be the explicit battle. TIM MILLER: Right. JON STEWART: The Democrats can't make this about, we don't wanna go to a spoil system, we wanna go back-- they've got to address.

real people's concerns. Does that sound fair to you guys again? JON FAVREAU: Yeah, I mean, what they. are selling, what's behind that sort of five. families style of-- of leadership. is, it's zero-sum politics, right? It's-- and it's domestic as well. This is Trump's view, which is, I-- if-- if you win, someone else loses. And so it's might makes right. And it's survival of the fittest. And that's why I like the people with power.

and I like the people with wealth. And everyone else is a sucker. And so--. JON STEWART: We're not losers. We're the hottest country in the world. JON FAVREAU: We're not losers. If you're the right person and you have enough strength. and you have enough power, then you can get whatever you want. and take whatever you want, and everyone else, fend for themselves, and that's why I respect Putin, that's. why I respect Xi, and I respect all these people. who-- you know, who are tough. JON STEWART: He only respects people that don't have to face. elections, or real elections.

JON FAVREAU: And I think that the argument we have to make. is that this is not-- like, politics isn't zero sum, that there is-- that there can be winners and winners, and that like, we can grow the economy in a way. that benefits everyone. We can have a government that benefits everyone. JON STEWART: But that can't be the argument. The argument has to be explicitly like, childcare doesn't work, health care doesn't work, education doesn't work, and here are the ways. that we have to do it. TIM MILLER: And we have to actually deliver it. JON FAVREAU: Well, yeah. And I would just say, look, like, the spoils system, my argument to them-- against it--. is more-- is less that he pitched you. that the spoils was gonna come to you.

That was the point of the spoils system, and like, that these liberal, Democratic pussies, as Jon put. it, cared more about what was happening in the Netherlands. and, you know, and Rwanda. And I don't. I want the spoils system to help you. But we saw what happens to the spoils system, actually. The spoils system helped Trump. The spoils were for Trump and his family. and their crypto money. And we need an alternative vision to that. Like, what is the counter vision to that, that is not. like, the League of Nations? You know what I mean? Like, people don't care about that stuff. I do.

TIM MILLER: Which is why the corruption message comes in, in addition to what you're saying, Jon, which is like, yes, child care, health care, all. the things people want, but you have. to talk to people about why they're not getting it. and haven't been getting it. And Trump is giving a perfect example of that right now. JON STEWART: The difficulty with the corruption message. is in the nuance of it. TIM MILLER: Yes. JON STEWART: Because I think Tim said it earlier, which I thought was a really great point, which is, Trump has found the ways to do this. He's made the corruption that we all suspected. were in our society explicit. But it's a hard argument to make.

You know, you look at 1789 Capital. or you look at Jared Kushner is now. gonna finance the buying of CNN, and hand it to the president so that he can. kill it in front of us, or--. TIM MILLER: Or hand it to the Qataris and the Saudis. JON STEWART: Or give it to the Saudis. You know, Donald Trump, Jr. is suddenly now. the head of a drone company, or on the board that has like, a half a billion dollar contract. The problem is, Hunter Biden was on the board of Burisma. And you may say, oh, but that-- the order of magnitude.

is different. And you're right. But it speaks to the same thing, that proximity to privilege is what matters. It's how kleptocracies and those things work. And so I think if the Democrats try and make it again, a moral corruption argument, there's. enough whiffs and notes and heady hints of Teapot Dome. and Tammany Hall in their backgrounds.

that it's a hard argument to make. JON FAVREAU: But that's-- but that's why you. don't-- the message can't be, they're corrupt and we're not, so elect us because we're better. And trust us--. JON STEWART: --that is always what they do. They run on this weird, moral black and white. JON FAVREAU: I know. I know. But back to what we were saying earlier, that's why you need. an actual reform agenda, like, I. am willing to change the institutions. I'm willing to change the incentive structure. I'm willing to get money out of politics. JON STEWART: A New Deal for--.

against corruption, a New Deal to tap into, inequality occurs because we value capital and not labor. There's got to be a way to tap--. Tim is-- Tim is a socialist now. I see it on his face. He is so excited about this new plan. TIM MILLER: Yeah, you can definitely. sell me on just painful levels of taxation. for the-- for the AI CEOs. You know, like, you could get-- like, I will flank Elizabeth. Warren on the left on--. JON STEWART: But you can't-- here's when.

you can't sell taxation, Tim. You can't-- because the Democrats. haven't proven that people will get value for that extra money. The message of, we need to get rid of the filibuster. or we need to tax billionaires, means nothing if nobody. ties it to fair value. They have to be more remedial than that. They have to step back forward. Now, you can frame it two different ways. You know, the first thing is, the first commercial Democrats. should run is, Trump said he was for you.

He said, Democrats are for they/them and he's for you. And that works if you're Ghislaine Maxwell, if you're the Qataris. Like, that should be every ad, is showing who "you" is. JON FAVREAU: Yep. JON STEWART: But on the Democratic side, if they can't prove that taxpayers get value. for their dollar, they are fucked. no matter what they think of. JON FAVREAU: See, this is where we're. becoming more centrist, Jon. Like, we're moving towards Tim. Tim--. TIM MILLER: Yeah. JON STEWART: Wait. What? TIM MILLER: Exactly. JON STEWART: What just happened? TIM MILLER: Yeah, no more welfare. Like, welfare reform, OK.

We're gonna have-- we're gonna have high taxation, socialism, and welfare reform, and cutting red tape so we. can build things for once. This is our abundance agenda. We're gonna get rid of the regulations. Yeah. JON STEWART: We can do that. But value doesn't mean not-- because first of all, it's not welfare. It's not an entitlement. It's an investment. If we invest in oil companies to go drilling somewhere, how the fuck can you not invest in human beings. getting enough food and getting enough shelter. to be their best selves?

These are investments. That's value. JON FAVREAU: Yeah. JON STEWART: All right, I think we're done here. [LAUGHTER]. Gentlemen--. TIM MILLER: I need to see the white paper still. [LAUGHS]. JON STEWART: You're probably right. Any moment from this year that you would like. to highlight on your way out, to go to your respective. media empires? Anything that strikes you as--. TIM MILLER: The one that for me, that was both-- because I. think it represents the year, which is simultaneously--. it's like the dark comedy. Like, it's really like, heartbreakingly horrible, but also just clownish, was when.

Terry Moran was interviewing Trump in the Oval Office. And there-- I was asking about Kilmar Abrego Garcia. And Trump's team, to prove that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was MS-13, had done like the MS paint, like the font. It was like Arial 12 font that they put on top of his hands. And it said MS-13. JON STEWART: Yes. TIM MILLER: And Trump says to Terry Moran, he's like, what? You're crazy. Like, obviously he's MS-13. It said it on his fingers.

And Terry was like, that was Photoshopped. And he's like, no, it wasn't. And then Terry's like, I guess we're gonna. have to agree to disagree. And Trump won't let it go. Like, Terry's trying to let him off the hook. And Trump's like, give me the picture. [LAUGHTER]. That was it for me. JON STEWART: That's-- that's a beautiful one. Jon? JON FAVREAU: It's funny. I was gonna do--. I was gonna do--. Well, Kilmar Abrego Garcia-- this is a little darker, but I mean, the fact that-- when I knew that, like, this. was much darker than even I had expected,

the fact that the United States government, in court, admitted. that they mistakenly sent someone to a torture chamber, and then their response to that was not, bring him back, it wasn't even, OK, well, get him out of there. and send him somewhere else, it's, we're. now gonna ruin this guy's life and make this a-- a big cause. on our side, that we are going to punish this guy no matter. what just because-- and that is how. they dealt with the whole deportation regime since then.

And it is a-- they are delighting in violence, and wanting us to know that they delight. in the violence and the abuse. And I think it's that-- that sadism. TIM MILLER: The memes, the memes. JON FAVREAU: Yeah, the memes, and how they try to make. it like, a joke but funny. Like, the desensitizing people to violence and abuse and sort. of dehumanizing people is, I think, the-- sort of underlying-- like, the real poison of the last year, and something that's gonna take a lot. more to get out of the system than just a few.

better policies. JON STEWART: That's so interesting. And it is. It's the dehumanization as a virtue--. JON FAVREAU: Yes. JON STEWART: --the idea that that is the virtuous way. And it really is. It's, they make a virtue of the ignorance of a lack. of discernment, that--. and the thing that I think always comes to you is, we're not actually safer when our government can't tell. the difference between MS-13 and an 18-year-old. valedictorian who's lived here, from Honduras,

since she was seven, but got the same treatment, and sent. to some facility in Louisiana. That's the thing that I think, maybe also has to be brought. to bear to the American people is, our ignorance doesn't make us safer. It doesn't make us America first. That discernment is the first quality. you need in building a better state of understanding. individuals and not groups. Gentlemen, I so appreciate you taking the time. I know you guys are awful busy, Tim Miller from Bulwark.

and Jon Favreau from Pod Save America. And obviously, you will be consolidated. when the Ellisons buy you. And I think that's-- by the way, I think it's a great. move on their part. TIM MILLER: We're not selling. JON STEWART: That was--. the moment for me-- and this is probably. selfish-- is when Donald Trump is like, I'll choose. who gets Warner Brothers. And you're like, is that where we are? Like, literally, the President of the United States--. TIM MILLER: Now make me another Rush Hour. I want Rush Hour 4, 5, and 6. JON STEWART: I want Rush Hours, and you can have it.

Guys, thank you so much. Have a wonderful Christmas, holiday, Hanukkah, New Years. And I look forward to seeing all the good stuff. you do in the next year. TIM MILLER: You, too, Jon. Thank you. JON FAVREAU: Thanks, man. [THEME MUSIC]. JON STEWART: I'll be honest with you. They seemed like, worn down--. GILLIAN SPEAR: Yeah. JON STEWART: --at first. I think they started to gather that-- that vigor. again, to go back into battle. But they definitely-- I had a feeling of like,

it's fucking December. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Yes. JON STEWART: And I want to buy presents. for my family and my friends. But like, this is an incessant grinding. GILLIAN SPEAR: Yeah, this year has felt a million years. long, as you said at the top. But you also weren't introducing. such fun ideas, like RFK is going to inherit the Earth, you know? JON STEWART: You're saying that that actually, I was not in any way bringing optimism and-- and--. GILLIAN SPEAR: I mean, maybe you tried, but I don't think--.

BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: You are the problem. I definitely didn't leave the conversation feeling. optimistic, but I wouldn't expect that for a conversation. recapping 2025. GILLIAN SPEAR: Yeah. Look at our outfits. We all spontaneously wore black. JON STEWART: Oh, God, I didn't even--. I didn't recognize that. Can I say-- maybe I'm insane. But I remain optimistic. I honestly think the despicable nature of this administration. is, the effect that it's having on those two, that-- that is not the effect that it. has on political operatives.

That is the effect that it has on human beings that don't want. to live in this acid base-- this is. not, like, it's a-- it's Mars. We don't want to have to wear spacesuits to breathe. freely amongst our people. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Yeah, people are sick of the shit, I think. JON STEWART: Sick of this shit. And they're starting to realize, he's the band leader. Trump is the bandleader.

Optimism. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: There you go. We did it. JON STEWART: Gillian's so not buying this, by the way. GILLIAN SPEAR: No, I think that you're right. And I want it to be true, as much as I think it's true. JON STEWART: All right. GILLIAN SPEAR: Well, for real optimism, we'll have a new mayor. JON STEWART: And listen, man, which. presents opportunity like we haven't. had in a very long time. And each one of these moments presents opportunity. to get some fresh water into this brackish cesspool. that we've been swimming in.

And we'll get out of it. And it's the end of the year. Obviously, we want to give our listeners a chance to pop. in a couple of questions here. Brittany, what have we got from--. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: All right, they are versatile. JON STEWART: --these kids. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: So here we go. JON STEWART: They are versatile. This is our last podcast of the year, by the way. That's why I'm talking like that. All right. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Jon, in your opinion, what is the best and worst thing that Trump did this year? JON STEWART: Oh God, best and worst? BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Yes, sir. JON STEWART: I mean, the--. [SIGHS] holy shit.

Really? I mean, obviously, like, for me, the worst thing. is, it's creating clouds of humanity. that are not individuals. They're just a patina, generally shaded, that he. feels are inferior to--. to his-- you know, I think he truly believes in those kind. of hierarchies, and-- and he believes.

that his people are at the top of the hierarchy, and, you know, take this for however you think it, but that the lower castes are disposable. They're not individuals. They're not particularly on the same level of humanity. that he is on. There is no individuality. A Somali doctor has nothing against. a Swedish petty larcenist. Like, a Somali doctor is worse 'cause he's in that cloud,

and therefore can be treated in the manner. that his administration is-- is treating him. And that's, by far, I think, the worst thing. It's not an individual thing that he's doing. The best thing he did was accept a trophy from the World. Cup that literally looks like zombies. reaching out of the grave to tickle. the underside of his balls. It's just-- it's fucking crazy.

But all right, what's next? Hopefully, this one will perk us up a little bit. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: I doubt it. JON STEWART: Oh, boy. End of year. People are hurting, man. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: We'll get there. Jon, Trump has stated that he believes it's seditious, perhaps even treasonous, for the press. to report on his health. Care to comment on his health? JON STEWART: First of all, I think. he's doing great, health wise. I think he-- he looks great. I have found-- and again, I'm obviously not like, an orthopedist, but I found that the thicker the ankle, the better the balance.

GILLIAN SPEAR: That is that famous saying. JON STEWART: For old people, falling is really--. but if you get those-- if your ankles are tree trunks, you can't get knocked over, you can't break the hip. And that's generally the beginning. of the downward slide. So I would suggest that that, in and of itself, would give you confidence that this may. be the healthiest, most robust president. that we've ever had in the history of the United. States of America. GILLIAN SPEAR: Ankle circumference alone, yeah. JON STEWART: But-- but it once again gets to the point of, for Donald Trump, the level of fealty.

can never rise to a level that is satisfactory. There is no level of ass kissing that you can do. I mean, when you watch his-- you know, everything is. seditious that falls beneath the level of my God, sir, thank you for not allowing too many hurricanes to hit. the United States, as Kristi Noem did in that stupid cabinet. meeting that they had. He-- he is angry at Fox News, which is literally,

like, a 24 hour a day ball-washing machine for Trump, and is designed specifically to keep him in power. So for him to say something is seditious and treasonous. means nothing because the bar of entry to Donald Trump. is purely about how deeply you are proving your undying. loyalty to the king. Anything below that, obviously is-- is seditious.

And none of us measure up, unfortunately. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Sad. JON STEWART: It is sad. And I hate it because you know, it's so hard. to be a billionaire president. GILLIAN SPEAR: I know. I mean, I don't know, but sure. JON STEWART: But you can imagine, money. corrupts and power corrupts. And to have all the money and all the power, it's-- it's like if Lord of the Rings ended where, you know,

they're gonna drop the ring into the fire, and then instead of hitting the fire, he catches it. GILLIAN SPEAR: Oh. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Spoiler. JON STEWART: Think-- think of how hard that is on someone. We don't feel bad enough. GILLIAN SPEAR: That's why he's so sleepy. JON STEWART: That's right. That's right. All right, what's next? BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: All right, next, do you think it's possible for Trump and Jimmy Kimmel. to end their feud? Or is it too far gone at this point? JON STEWART: First of all, Jimmy Kimmel. might be the most generous, kindhearted individual that I. have met in my entire life.

He is someone-- he doesn't even sleep. Like, in the middle of the night, he will just sit and Google, like, ideas for what the best thoughtful gift might be. for you, that he could send to you in a moment. when you're feeling low. Like, that dude is all heart, like, all of it. Like, he is always-- he is a naturally. generous, gregarious, warm individual.

that people are drawn to. And he is drawn to people. He is-- I wish I could be more like him. I am a kind of introvert, loner-type personality. that like, I love people--. over there. He brings them in, into an embrace in a manner. So if anybody could do it, it would be him.

He is the antithesis of everything. that that guy stands for. And he has been, and his family has. been put through the wringer for no apparent reason. Donald Trump could say nobody-- you know, everybody's mean to me. And you're like, 'cause you're the fucking president. And you have an Army--. and nuclear weapons. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Yeah, it's kind part of the job. GILLIAN SPEAR: And he's also mean, so--. JON STEWART: Yeah, but you've-- you've drawn fire on him.

and his family 'cause he said shit about you, you didn't like. Tough shit. GILLIAN SPEAR: Learn to take a fucking joke. JON STEWART: Boom. GILLIAN SPEAR: I'd love a president that. could take a joke and stay awake. through a meeting, two things. Like, I don't ask for a lot. JON STEWART: When-- when was the last time. this country had that? I think it might have been Eisenhower. [LAUGHTER]. No, I just-- I just hate that. He's honestly, like, one of the best human individuals.

underneath the scenes, behind the scenes, whatever, that you will ever see in your entire fucking life. Colbert, too, by the way. I'm very fortunate that those people in my life, who. understand my eccentricity, but also warmly. embrace me at the same time, I'm. very lucky to have folks like that in my life, absolutely. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Something to be. grateful for in the holiday season. JON STEWART: Brittany--. GILLIAN SPEAR: Yeah, this is a good optimistic note. JON STEWART: Brittany, you just put a bow on that.

Well done. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Thank you so much. JON STEWART: Yeah. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Last but not least, Jon, do you think Christmas should be more about Santa. Claus or the baby Jesus? JON STEWART: Oh, God, this is not in my jurisdiction. I don't-- I don't know. Well, I've got some explaining to do to the people at home. I don't know if you can tell by, let's say, my face, but I would be more comfortable answering any question. about Fiddler on the Roof.

[LAUGHTER]. I can give you the ins and outs of the show Yentl, but as far as this--. I'm assuming that Christmas has--. I mean, other than the birth of Jesus being the tent. post, the--. the rest of it doesn't appear to be about that. in any way, shape, or form. Am I-- you guys might know better than me, but--. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: It's giving presents. GILLIAN SPEAR: Yeah, it should more about Santa. Why not? JON STEWART: Yeah, like, I don't ever. go, like, on November 19, oh, my God,

the Jesus commercials are starting so early this year. Like, it doesn't seem to have a whole lot to do with that. But I will tell you this, as someone who never experienced. it when I was younger, when my kids were younger, and they still believed in all that, it. was the most fun holiday I have ever experienced. When they still believed in magic--. Brittany, do you-- can-- do you recall when you believed?

Like, did your family--. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Oh, very much so. JON STEWART: It's kind of magical. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Yes, my mom actually--. one of my favorite memories is my--. I was 11 years old. And my mom sat me down, and she goes, you know Santa? And I said, yeah. She goes, well, it's me. [LAUGHTER]. GILLIAN SPEAR: She wanted the credit. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: I was like--. JON STEWART: That's awesome. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: --devastated. GILLIAN SPEAR: I love that. JON STEWART: Yeah, we did-- it, like-- it. was one of those things that, like, we were always talking.

about, like, when are they gonna figure this out? 'Cause we knew it wasn't gonna come from us. It-- they would be like, so Katie told me. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Yes. JON STEWART: And it is your entree into the world of lies. Like, it is your--. and then your entire worldview is like, wait a minute, there's no Santa. And I think the president might be corrupt. Like, you-- the-- the jump from there. And the way that you parent your kids up to that point, and then after that point, it's like, before that,

it's all a certain, like, magical morality tale. You know, it's nice to be important, but it's important to be nice, sharing is caring. Like, it's all that. And like, as soon as that other thing hits, it's a lot of like, there's fentanyl in cocaine. Remember that. Like--. [LAUGHTER]. --it-- everything fucking changes very quickly. All right, well, this is our last podcast of the year.

As we said, we're back January 14. So it's a nice, long, beautiful-- and you guys have--. have earned it. In the new year, obviously we're. publishing podcasts on Wednesday instead of Thursday. That's just something that you can lie down there. And this end of the year is a nice time to remind everybody. that all the work that is done on this podcast, that-- that hopefully, you find yourself enjoying, is done by the people that I'm talking to now. or that you are not seeing. But they are behind the scenes. And they put in the diligent work that.

allows me to feel prepared and ready to talk to anybody, and I mean anybody. They're throwing me the creators of AI. and political pundits and all these other things. And I just-- I love it. I love being able to just talk to people that I find. interesting and fascinating, and pick their brains, and learn. There is nothing better in this entire fucking world. than learning something you didn't know yesterday. And it's just something I really appreciate.

And I really appreciate you guys for obviously. doing the hard work that allows me to do those sorts of things. Oh, Brittany, how do they get a hold of us? BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: At Twitter, we are weeklyshowpod. Instagram threads, TikTok, Bluesky, we. are weeklyshowpodcast. And you can like, subscribe, and comment. on our YouTube channel, The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart. JON STEWART: Our lead producer is Lauren Walker, producer. Brittany Mehmedovic, producer Gillian Spear, video editor. and engineer Rob Vitolo, who has to sit back there. when I see a bee, and go, oh, that's gonna to suck to edit,

audio editor and engineer Nicole Boyce, who. also has to deal with that. Rob, actually, more has to deal with just how. much of the Knicks picture I'm gonna show. and how pale I'm gonna look. Nicole is the one, actually, who has to turn down--. I guess it's the gain. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Very good, Jon. JON STEWART: I don't really know what it is when. I shriek like a scared girl. And our executive producer is Chris. McShane and Caity Gray, who keep the whole ship running. Thank you guys so much for all of it.

And thank you guys for, in any way, listening or watching this. We really do appreciate your support. And we will see you guys next year. Bye bye. [THEME MUSIC]. The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart. is a Comedy Central podcast, is produced by Paramount. Audio and Busboy productions.