WANTED: Democratic Leadership with DNC Chair Ken Martin | The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart

KEN MARTIN: One of the challenges. in the Democratic Party, for sure, is we're a big tent. Right? We are-- well, look--. JON STEWART: Not that big. KEN MARTIN: [LAUGHS]. JON STEWART: If you were a big tent, we wouldn't be in this position, would we now? [THEME MUSIC]. Hey, everybody. It is Wednesday, September 24. We're taping The Weekly Show podcast. My name is Jon Stewart. We're doing this in the morning. And I have to say that now because the cadence, the speed, the circadian rhythm by which news occurs, I--.

Jimmy Kimmel came back on television last night, delivered I thought just a fantastic, heartfelt but still. funny and interesting and just met the moment that he was. given in such a beautiful way. And I was so proud to be a practitioner. in that same business. And who knows? By today, he could have been taken off the air again.

That's-- we don't really know where this goes. And I think, ultimately, his point about this. isn't about the dopey shows that we do. and the things like that. It's about a principle of a government that has basically. operated like a monarchy. And Trump has said it even, explicitly, which is I don't do business with people I don't like, as though government is purely a business.

We are not his business partners. We are not his associates. We are the citizens of a sovereign nation. and a constitutional republic that. should have representation, whether he likey or no likey. So it's just been--. and I don't even feel bad about it. because, as shitty as he is to all of us, he just walks into the UN and goes,

I'm right about everything and you live in hell holes. Just-- and the favorite part is the escalator, which. has been so pivotal in the rise, the escalator is his vehicle. It is his triumphant chariot as he. comes down from what appeared to be a Barnes. & Noble down towards--. what was-- the food court, where he delivered. his first message in 2016.

But to have that chariot fail him at the UN. and to have to go back to use it. at its most primitive form, which is, of course, the stair. The stair is the way that it had to go. And to blame the UN for subterfuge, and meanwhile, they're like, actually you're--. I think you had like a camera dude who tripped up. one of the things and that it was a safety alarm. and it tripped it up. And that's why it stopped. But either way, why get in the way of a perfectly good.

conspiracy about the United Nations. wanting to force a cankled man to scale. the heights of Mount Escalator, find his way. into the General Assembly. But we're not talking about today. Today is a whole different animal. Today, we're going to be discussing. things about the Democratic Party, which you may or may not know still exists,

I believe, on paper. I don't know if it exists in the larger cultural. sense, relevance wise. But it is on paper, I believe, still there. And we are going to bring on our guest. He is the chairman of said Democratic Party, National Committee, et cetera. So let's get to our guest now, and. we'll move this thing forward. [THEME MUSIC]. All right. So we are joined right now by our guest, the head,

the chairman-- is it Chairman, Ken? Do they call it the chair? KEN MARTIN: Well, I like to call it chair, but whatever the hell you want to call me. JON STEWART: The chairman of the Democratic National. Committee, Mr. Ken Martin. Thank you for joining us. KEN MARTIN: Oh, thanks for having me, Jon. It's a crazy time. JON STEWART: It's a crazy time. The first thing I want to do, Ken, and this. may seem a bit remedial, is just to get. a sense of, what is your job? KEN MARTIN: [LAUGHS]. JON STEWART: What is under the purview.

of the chairman of the Democratic National Committee? KEN MARTIN: Well, I appreciate you. asking that because there's a lot of ideas. what my job should be. But let me tell you what it really is. JON STEWART: Yes. KEN MARTIN: At the core, the job of any political party. chair of either party at any level, whether it's. the national party, state party, local party, is to build infrastructure, to actually help us win elections. up and down the ballot. Right? And that is very encompassing, of course. What does infrastructure mean? It means that we are, of course,

making sure that we're engaging volunteers. in the work of talking to voters, to developing. our platform and our message, to make. sure that we're out there recruiting candidates. We're raising the resources to put organization in place. to actually help ID, persuade, mobilize. voters to actually show up on election day and win elections. It's as simple as that. It's much more complicated in terms. of the actual pieces of it. But at the core, I think there's.

a lot of things people think the Democratic Party is, i.e. that we control our elected officials, our candidates, that we control what happens in US Congress. or in state legislatures. No, the party's role is really simply, what are we doing to actually help us win? JON STEWART: Right. But certainly, you're not--. I mean, I wouldn't think, agnostic on policy. I think you're probably determining--. you are the architects and builders to some extent. And I would imagine, right now, maybe even.

with an elevated role because of the lack. of an apparent leader of the party. KEN MARTIN: Yeah, of course. Well, look, I mean, I would say this. Obviously, we're out of power, and we have--. JON STEWART: [LAUGHS]. That might be the nicest way I think I've ever heard that put. KEN MARTIN: Well, yeah. And the Republicans are at an apex of their political power. JON STEWART: Yes. KEN MARTIN: But I will say this, that the role right now. for me, and then frankly, you our leaders. throughout the country, and we have many different leaders,

is to make sure that we're presenting. a coherent and concise message that connects with. voters again. And we have a role to play in that, for sure. But it's not our role alone. We're not the sole deciders on what our message is, what our platform is and what we're. going to be talking about. But we do work with all of our partners in that conversation, from our governors, mayors. JON STEWART: Yeah. I was going to say, so as you're putting that together--. because one of the things I think you find right now.

is you talk about a coherent message. And that's a great phrase that I have not heard Democrats. utter in quite some time. You have this-- there's the Bernie wing that's. got a more populist drive. And that's been very active for a couple of decades. You've got this new maybe Slotkin, let's just. talk normal, let's say Michigander as much as we.

possibly can so that people go, is that really. what they call themselves? KEN MARTIN: Right. JON STEWART: You've got the competent governor archetype, where they roll up their sleeves. and they curse more and say, we're going to get shit done. KEN MARTIN: Right. JON STEWART: How does that come together logistically? And then you've also got-- maybe on the other side, you've got the Ezra Klein abundance messaging.

But if you think about it in Congress, Chuck Schumer is the leader. Hakeem Jeffries is the leader in the House. of Representatives. I don't know any role that they have in the messaging. They seem almost vestigial at this point. KEN MARTIN: Let me just say that, I think, what you point to is one of the challenges. in the Democratic Party, for sure, is we're a big tent. Right? We are-- Well, look--. JON STEWART: Not that big. KEN MARTIN: [LAUGHS]. JON STEWART: If you were a big tent,

we wouldn't be in this position, would we now? KEN MARTIN: Well, let me say this. In terms of our representation in this party, in terms of elected officials, we have conservative Democrats, we have centrist Democrats, we have progressives like me, and then we have the leftists. Right? This sort of new emerging wing of our party. And I've always believed that you. win elections through addition, not subtraction. You win by growing your coalition. and bringing new voices into the party. What that means, of course, is sometimes. that means it's messy.

There's debate. There's dissent. There's difference of opinion. That's a good thing for our party. Right? But what it also sometimes means. is you have some inconsistency in the message itself, in terms of it breaking through. And I will say, part of the challenge. for a Democratic Party chair, again, is how do we get all of the various wings of our party. and all of these various ideas into the same boat, rowing in the same direction towards the same goal? And part of that is by creating a frame, a message frame.

that whether you're a leftist Democrat. or a conservative Democrat, you can use. And so when we talk about messaging, we have to also recognize--. I'll use Minnesota as an example. JON STEWART: I'm going to stop you for a second. KEN MARTIN: Yeah, please. JON STEWART: Because you will take the role of instructor, laying out the steps by which to create a functioning party. And I, I believe, will take the role of doubting Thomas. KEN MARTIN: Please. JON STEWART: Perhaps a skeptic. KEN MARTIN: There's plenty of those out there these days, so.

JON STEWART: Understood. What you are talking about and the way that you are talking. about it strikes my ear as kind of consultant driven as opposed. to what I'm hearing from you is we have to have a big tent. and draw different ideas and create a unified--. and what it says to me is--.

I didn't hear once, like, what do you, everybody believe in? What's the principle? KEN MARTIN: Well, yeah. JON STEWART: What's the drive? KEN MARTIN: I'm happy to get into what. I think the message should be. And let me say what I think it should be. JON STEWART: Thank you. KEN MARTIN: It's very clear. JON STEWART: No more about boats, no more about rowing. KEN MARTIN: No, no, because I-- JON STEWART: No more about--. KEN MARTIN: I do think it's important to talk. about the tactical challenges for the Democratic Party, which is what you were saying. We have all of these different ideas. How do you actually come up with a message?

I think the message is very clear. Right, Jon? We got away from this. In '92, James Carville said this, that it's the economy, stupid. Right? And the reality is, if you got 100 people in the room right. now, 100 Democrats, and ask them. what the Democratic Party stood for, you'd. get 150 different answers. And so I think it's very simple. It's, no matter where you're from, no matter where you live, no matter who you love or who you are, you should have an opportunity in this country. to get ahead, not just get by.

You should have an opportunity to achieve the American dream, to climb the economic ladder and achieve. success for your family. That, at the core of it, is fairly simple. Right? JON STEWART: Yeah. KEN MARTIN: That is who the Democratic Party has. been for years, in my opinion. But we've gotten away from that. JON STEWART: Well, how have you gotten away from it? What's in your mind? KEN MARTIN: Because one of the things, Jon, I think what we do is we tend to message. to smaller and smaller parts of our coalition. Some people call it identity politics. I actually think it's broader than that. It's also geographic.

We say one thing to a rural community. We come into a suburban community. and say something different. We come into an urban core and say some--. JON STEWART: Well, the needs of a rural community. are different from an urban community, are they not? KEN MARTIN: Sure, but there should be some core thread. that connects all of them. And I'll use Minnesota as an example, Jon. JON STEWART: OK. KEN MARTIN: What connects a corn farmer, like my father-in-law, in Southern. Minnesota with an iron ranger up on the Iron Range with--. JON STEWART: Ken, I'm not going to know the answer to this. KEN MARTIN: Well, of course you are, because--.

JON STEWART: I don't know what connects. a corn farmer to an iron--. I don't even know what an iron ranger is. KEN MARTIN: Well, let me tell you what it is. It's someone who's mining up on the Iron Range of Minnesota. The largest deposit of iron ore in the country. is in Northern Minnesota. JON STEWART: Oh, dear god. KEN MARTIN: With, by the way, with a refugee, a new refugee in the Twin Cities. What is the thing that connects all of them? Well, it's pretty simple. They are very disparate groups, for sure, but what. connects them is economics. Every one of them has a job. Everyone's working their asses off.

All three of those groups are falling behind, feeling left behind, forgotten, dispossessed. And they feel like the Democratic Party. and the Republican Party could give a shit about their lives. These are folks that are hard working. Most people, by the way, when we. talk about the working class-- JON STEWART: Of course. KEN MARTIN: Yeah, but when we talk about the working. class in this country, which is about 70%. of Americans that do not have a college degree, these are Black, brown and white people who are busting. their ass, who are working harder than they ever have. before, and they feel like no one cares, that they're unseen.

and they're forgotten. So I say this because that has to be the core message, an economic message that gives them. a sense that we're fighting for them and their families. JON STEWART: But that's--. I mean, isn't that Bernie Sanders? Isn't that what he's been saying for--. since he was eight? KEN MARTIN: I think it's Bernie Sanders. I think it's a whole host of folks, from Tim Walz to Josh Shapiro to Wes Moore to Joe Biden. JON STEWART: Well, that's what I mean. When we say-- I guess my point is, when you.

say something that broadly true, it almost becomes meaningless. It becomes this idea of-- the difficulty I have connecting. to that is just the very basicness of it, which is we've got to get back to those kitchen table issues. And again, it's a way of political speak. that almost renders it devoid of any connection and meaning. because it feels so platitudinous.

KEN MARTIN: Yeah. And I don't disagree with you. And I just said this last night, Jon, which is-- to some. folks I was visiting with--. that's the frame for our message. And then underneath of that, what we have to do. is actually start presenting the specific policy agenda. And one of the things that I think about a lot, in '94, I worked on a congressional race. And as you remember, Jon, what was remarkable about '94? JON STEWART: Contract with America, Newt Gingrich. KEN MARTIN: That's right. And what was also remarkable in that year. is they flipped a 40 year House Majority.

Neither party, Republicans or Democrats, have had long term majorities since then. But the important piece is what you just reflected on. [THEME MUSIC]. JON STEWART: All right, guys, these days, every headline. feels like it's been engineered to make you either furious, terrified or both. It is-- it's honestly maddening. Like, you can't even-- you can't watch it. You can't read it. You can't deal with it. Well, Ground News is here to help you fight back.

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the unlimited access vantage subscription, brings the price. down to about $5 a month. It's groundnews.com/stewart or scan the QR code on the screen. [THEME MUSIC]. One of the reasons that people think the Democratic Party. abandoned the working class was the, I guess, what they would call-- and I. hate to use these terminologies--. but neoliberalism or the idea of globalization and NAFTA.

and sending jobs overseas and inviting China into the WTO. All these things that were part of, you would think, the Clinton era movement of neoliberal economics, a kind of buying into, maybe not explicitly, but supply side economics. Right? KEN MARTIN: Yeah, I think you're right. JON STEWART: And all that. From what I've seen, the people that are building. this new Democratic Party-- and for those of you,

this is a podcast. I'm making the air quote thing. I'm doing the "new" Democratic Party. They seem to be of a piece of that same cadre. of-- in other words, the leadership that has been tasked. with creating this new Democratic Party which. understands the pain of it's the economy, stupid, and feels your pain is made up of the same DNA.

and atomic structure. KEN MARTIN: I think that's unfair. I mean, look-- JON STEWART: Sure. That's what I'm here for. KEN MARTIN: There are some, Jon, for sure, that represent that sort of old way of thinking. I'm the first card carrying union member. to be elected DNC chair. I come out of the building trades. My mom was 15 years old when she had me. She raised four kids by herself, and I say that to tell you that I am the working class. At the end of the day, when I look at-- and I agree with. your assessment of where our party. started to go wrong in the '90s with these trade deals.

Right? As a union member, I will tell you that, at the core, we've seen union membership and union households declining. And of course, as a result, we've seen the middle class. shrinking and declining. The wealth inequality in this country. is greater than it's ever been. And so we have to get back to those roots. And by that, I do not mean through a neoliberal lens, as some in our party approach these policy conversations. But let me say this. We need a-- back to this idea of a frame.

We need a frame that's large enough. to bring in the leftist Democrats, the progressive Democrats, the centrist. and the conservative Democrats, because I. think this is important. I don't subscribe to the idea that there's. just one way to be a Democrat. It belies the point, which is, for us to win, you can't run the same type of candidate everywhere. You just can't. I'll use Minnesota as an example. The fifth congressional district, which is Minneapolis, Ilhan Omar represents that district.

She's a leftist. Right? Right next to her, literally the next district over. is the Third District, which was. represented by Dean Phillips, who's a business centrist. And then right next to him, for years, was a guy named Collin Peterson, who was a House AG. Committee Chair, a very conservative blue dog. Democrat, all three of them Democrats, all three. of them important for us for the reasons that we're. trying to get into power. You can't get shit done--. JON STEWART: [LAUGHS]. KEN MARTIN: You can't-- JON STEWART: Wait.

You're not supposed to say--. KEN MARTIN: You can't get shit done for people, Jon, if you actually are in second place. You don't get brownie points for being in the minority. JON STEWART: I understand that very, very clearly. But again, this all seems to be talking around the reality. So it's we've got to find a way to appeal to Democrats. of all different stripes, so that we can get back into power. and get shit done for people. But at the end of the day, what it feels like to me. is that the Democrats are in the position of defending.

a status quo in terms of everything. that the government does that the people have decided. is utterly broken and corrupt. KEN MARTIN: I agree with you on that. I'm not doing that. And I'll tell you what. I think, earlier this year, as an example, Jon, we took the bait on this. So DOGE comes along, and they start. making cuts in government. And their argument is very simple. Government sucks. It's not working for you. We're going to blow it up, and we're going.

to make it more efficient. There's massive fraud and abuse. And what is our response? Don't cut government. Government is good. It's working for you. Well, guess what? Most working people I know, most families like my family, they don't believe that government is working for them. Hasn't worked for them for years. So suddenly the Democratic Party becomes the defender. of the status quo. Well, guess what? The status quo is not working for working people. So I think we made-- we, the collective we, as the Democratic Party made a mistake. Yeah, we believe in government. But we got to fix it.

We got to reform it. We got to make it work for people. JON STEWART: So tell me about that. So DOGE comes out, and that's happening. You've just jumped in at DNC at that point. KEN MARTIN: Yes. JON STEWART: So what is the discussion? Is the problem here that the Democrats only have a way. to steer away from the crash, but they. don't know what they're driving towards in this moment? KEN MARTIN: Yes, I agree. JON STEWART: And I'll give you the example of-- because there. is a thirst out there in the country.

like I've never seen it. And you see the energy with a guy. like Mamdani in New York City. And you may not like everything that he's doing, but there's a guy who finally harnesses. the type of energy and drive--. KEN MARTIN: Yes. JON STEWART: --that Democrats have been talking about wanting. to harness. And the first thing that happens. is everybody runs in the other direction. KEN MARTIN: Well, that's not true, but some people did. JON STEWART: A lot of people in the Democratic Party. KEN MARTIN: I was the first person out. of the gate to endorse him. JON STEWART: Right.

KEN MARTIN: And I will tell you, Jon, that I think you're. absolutely right on Mamdani. JON STEWART: But you've got Chuck Schumer and Hakeem. Jeffries, both New York, supposedly. the head of the Senate and the head. of congressional Democrats, running in the other direction. KEN MARTIN: You know what, Jon? Every morning, I say the serenity prayer, which is important to me. And I say that-- JON STEWART: Wait. What? KEN MARTIN: Let me tell you why. Because there's things I can't control. You asked this question at the very beginning, which. I appreciated you asking. What does the Democratic Party do?

Because this is where people think. that the chair of the party has control over their elected. officials, as if somehow I could call Senator Schumer. or Leader Jeffries or any governor. and tell them what they should do. It doesn't work that way. So I want to be very clear. JON STEWART: That's-- now, that's a good point. I think that's a good point. KEN MARTIN: The point I'm making. about the serenity prayer is I can only control what I. can control, which is myself. And that, from my perspective, I've always said, and I've been very clear on this, it's up to the Democratic primary voters.

to decide who our nominee is. And once they send us a nominee, we need to fight like hell for whoever they send us. And that's important. Again, for me, I've always--. I was the first person after the 2016 election. to put forward superdelegate reform. I authored that I authored a neutrality pledge. to keep party bosses out of putting their thumb. on the scale for candidates. Because I believe, as you do, again, that there are many different voices in this party.

and we should not be pushing those voices out. We should be bringing them in. But back--. JON STEWART: Well, let's-- just to stay on that point. for a minute, it is difficult, I'm sure, to make those calls, even though I would. imagine that is kind of--. you may not have control over it, but it does seem like that would. be the place to make your case, at least, or to advocate. But the second part is, even within the areas that. are your purview, let's say the Democratic National Committee,

David Hogg is a young, vocal, may not like all he does, but he's pushed out. Randi Weingarten, the AFSCME union chiefs are pushed out. It feels like the Democrats, rather than--. the tent got big enough for Liz Cheney, but it doesn't seem big enough for more. rebellious, difficult voices. KEN MARTIN: Here's what I would say, before I get into that David and Randi stuff,

I started with Paul Wellstone in 1990. JON STEWART: Right. KEN MARTIN: I represent, as Paul used to say, the democratic wing of the Democratic Party. I am a progressive, and like David and Randi, I've been fighting in this movement for a long time. to change this party. And when I started with Paul, I was a young radical. And like many, I wanted to burn the party down. And one thing he said to me, which has stuck with me, Jon, is he said, look, no institution can. solely change on the outside. Yes, we need to build a grassroots movement.

of people who are going to push our party to be better. The only way an institution will change is from the inside. and get involved and make the party be the party. that you want it to be. I've spent 35 years trying to do that. So look, I will tell you this. Let me talk about the David piece for a second. JON STEWART: Sure. KEN MARTIN: Because I think it's. important to get into this. I really like David, and I support what he's trying to do. Primaries are really important in our party. It's important in democracy. One, it holds elected officials accountable. Two, it brings new ideas and perspectives.

into the conversation. And three, it's a pathway for new leaders. It's a pathway for young leadership. It's a pathway for people of color. that could never run for office. It's a pathway for a whole group of folks that never. would be given a shot, including. my first boss, Paul Wellstone. Right? So I say this, truly, because I support primaries. But what that beef was between us-- and this is critical. JON STEWART: Beef? You don't hear Minnesotans talk beef. KEN MARTIN: Well, sure you do. We got a lot of beef farmers in Minnesota. What are you talking about?

So but truly, Jon, listen, in 2016, as I mentioned earlier, I saw the devastating results of party leadership putting. their thumb on the scale and basically telling. all of those young supporters of Bernie Sanders to go. fuck themselves. And as a result, they left the party, and they never came back. Whether perceived or real, what ended up happening. is we pushed people out of the conversation. And I want to go back to what I said before. One of the reasons I was successful in Minnesota.

is because we built the type of coalition that brought everyone. into the conversation. And so right after that election, in '17, I was elected as a Vice Chair of the DNC. to lead all of our state parties. And I pushed the existing officers and our party to put. a neutrality pledge in place to say. that party leadership cannot get involved in primaries. They have to stay out and let the primary voters. make that decision. When I campaigned for this position,

I said I wanted to codify that into our charter. And so the difference that--. both David and I supported each other's positions. He supported neutrality. I supported primaries, but there. is no way to reconcile them. He couldn't be an officer while also then having. his organization he leads be involved in primaries, which is. why he decided to step down. No one pushed him out, just the opposite. I wanted David to stay in. He's an amazing young leader who has a lot of great ideas,

and we need his voice and energy in the party. But how do you reconcile those two? JON STEWART: So you're saying that he. had to go because, if you are on the DNC, you have to abide by a neutrality pledge. And so if he is involved in an organization. that is promoting--. KEN MARTIN: Correct. JON STEWART: --primaries for people that already. have office, that violates--. KEN MARTIN: The neutrality pledge, but--. JON STEWART: The neutrality pledge. of, whoever wins the primary, you can't get involved in that. KEN MARTIN: You can't get involved before a primary,

helping either an incumbent or a challenger. JON STEWART: You can only get involved once the primary has--. KEN MARTIN: That's correct. And that's because we want the will of the voters to prevail, not the will of a bunch of party leaders in a back room. making decisions on which candidates. they think the party should support. It shouldn't work that way. And that is, for me, a direct result. of my early days with Wellstone when the whole establishment. was against him. And to 2016, watching what happened in that election,

I think it's imperative that the party. stays out of primaries. Not that primaries shouldn't happen. Primaries should happen. We want them to happen. But people like me should not be involved. in putting our thumb on the scale. and picking winners and losers. Our job is to be the referee, to make sure there's a level. playing field, to call balls and strikes, and to not actually be a player. We can't be involved in primaries. JON STEWART: But that seems, you know--. I understand it in theory.

KEN MARTIN: Yeah. JON STEWART: But in practice, the idea that the DNC is going. to be agnostic when it comes to-- in the same way. that, if you see a candidate that you feel like. is going to have a better shot at a primary. but is a crazy person that's not going to be able to survive. in a regular election once the primary is over--. and we've seen that in the Republican Party a lot. They pick the most MAGA person to get in the primary,

and then they get in a state election or a larger election, and they fall apart. The idea that the DNC or any of those. would not take a position on that or would be agnostic. based on that pledge doesn't seem realistic. or how it operates in practice. You are also part of recruiting. KEN MARTIN: Of course. JON STEWART: You guys go out, and you recruit candidates. KEN MARTIN: Sure. JON STEWART: And this gets to a larger point. And I don't mean to bring this up just from the Democrats, but there is a trust issue that we have right now.

between the rhetoric of our politics. and the reality of our politics. KEN MARTIN: Yes. JON STEWART: And Kamala Harris's book, I think, has done a real--. I know everybody's shitting on it. KEN MARTIN: I haven't read it yet. JON STEWART: It does a real service, maybe not in the way that she had intended. or that the political parties will be happy about. But it exposes that the conversation that we all think.

is happening but we're told over and over again. is not happening, whether it be when you choose a running mate, are you looking at whether or not they're gay or Jewish. or Black to the point of, when you looked at President Biden, did you think he was strong enough. to go up against Donald Trump in the national election again? We were told over and over again.

how ridiculous those statements were, how crazy that is, that no, I pick the most competent--. I look for the best person possible. What Joe Biden behind the scenes is--. sometimes during meetings, he'll. be solving quadratic equations while we're. also doing Medicare. It was all bullshit. KEN MARTIN: Yeah. JON STEWART: And Ken, that can't hold.

And so when we talk about like, we're neutral. and we stay out and here's the rules and this is how we play, like it really strikes me as a fundamental foundational. problem of erosion of trust. KEN MARTIN: I don't disagree with you, but the way you build trust is by not. thumbing your nose at voters and telling them, guess what? We get to make these decisions, and you don't. We, as party leaders, get to decide. who the best candidate is, and your voice doesn't matter. JON STEWART: Well, you got-- but you.

guys recruit candidates. You funnel money. You have resources. KEN MARTIN: Listen, I think the D trip, the DS, other organizations within the larger ecosystem, of course, are going to support their preferred candidates. What I'm suggesting is, party leaders, our job is to build infrastructures. to win a November election, and ultimately to make sure. that we're growing our coalition, building our party, bringing voices in and making sure that we honor. the will of those voices. You can't be half pregnant. You can't say, oh, yeah, guess what?

We honor the will of the voters when. it benefits our candidates. And then, of course, when they decide. to send us Mamdani, say, well, we're not going to endorse him. It's why I endorsed him right away. You either believe in this idea that primary voters matter. and that their voices matter, that. they're the ones who select our nominee, or you don't. You can't be half pregnant. It's either you do or you don't. And I say this truly. JON STEWART: It feels like building. a house without a blueprint, if that makes sense.

KEN MARTIN: Oh, I've got a blueprint, and I understand your point you're making. JON STEWART: Yeah. You've got a logistical blueprint, but I meant a more fundamental blueprint of principle. KEN MARTIN: Well, the question here, again, is how do you grow your party? How do you bring new voices in? JON STEWART: Are you asking me. KEN MARTIN: Well, no, I'm just saying--. JON STEWART: Because I have an idea, but I--. KEN MARTIN: Well, I think it's certainly rhetorical, but it's the larger--. the larger question here, Jon, is.

that's the goal of the Democratic Party. is to continue to grow and to continue to bring voices in. JON STEWART: Let me answer your rhetorical question. KEN MARTIN: Yeah, please. JON STEWART: You grow your party by inspiring people. with a message that resonates with the reality. of their lives. And you grow your party by understanding the disconnect. from the sclerotic, dying infrastructure of the status. quo of that party and their ideas.

and how far away it is from the reality. of those that would follow it. KEN MARTIN: Yes, and I'm with you. JON STEWART: And so that's the piece that's missing. KEN MARTIN: Well, but I'm with you on that. And so imagine, by the way--. JON STEWART: Yeah. KEN MARTIN: You have a candidate who comes along who's. inspiring all those folks. Right? And the party leaders say, well, that's not our candidate. We want someone else. JON STEWART: He eats with his hands! KEN MARTIN: [LAUGHS] Right. JON STEWART: By god, sir. KEN MARTIN: But this is the point, which is primaries.

are meant to actually make sure that those candidates represent. exactly what you're talking about. So when a Mamdani comes along and then we decide, well, it's not our type of candidate, we might not agree with them on all the issues. And he's not the type of candidate we want. We're essentially saying to all those primary voters. who chose him and who are excited about him, we don't want you in the party. That's my point here. JON STEWART: But you--.

in the primary, that is exactly what happened. I mean, in the primary, for the most part, the status quo went with Cuomo. I mean, they were saying that, and then he won, and now they. have to flip it back around. So I understand. KEN MARTIN: In the primary. Yeah, that's right. JON STEWART: Right. KEN MARTIN: And people will play in primaries, and candidates and elected officials and others. are allowed to do that. JON STEWART: But you're asking me, how do you grow the party? And I'm saying is you grow the party.

by recognizing the reality of where your party is at. KEN MARTIN: Yes. JON STEWART: And even when you think. about the Republican Party did an autopsy of their loss. after Romney. KEN MARTIN: Right. JON STEWART: Right? And I still remember Sean Hannity on television going, the big problem is we've got to be nicer to Hispanics. We've got to let them know they're welcome here, and we've got to open up our country to Hispanics. KEN MARTIN: Right. JON STEWART: And nobody bought it.

because it was a calculation. It was math. It wasn't anything that resonated with the people. that vote with that party. And it left their party ripe for a hostile takeover, which. occurred through Donald Trump. KEN MARTIN: That's right. JON STEWART: The Democratic Party. finds itself in the very same place as the Republican. Party in 2015. KEN MARTIN: Yeah, I don't disagree. I don't disagree. And the question is, do you want energy in the party.

or do you want it on the outside? Do you want to grow your party ranks? Again, I go back to what I said before. Yes, it means it's messy debate and dissent. and a wide degree of opinions on any given issue. The Republican Party benefits from the fact. that they're very homogeneous as it relates to ideology. And so it's easier for them to be more disciplined and easier. for them to be more nimble.

JON STEWART: I don't know that that's. necessarily the case, but--. KEN MARTIN: I think it is. I mean, you know, but let me say this. JON STEWART: In terms of ideology, explain that. Because I'm not so sure, especially now, where Trump had inroads into the Black community. and the Hispanic community. And I would say, the Democratic Party has plenty of litmus. tests for their candidates. Does the Republican Party have some pro-choice members? It does. Does the Democratic Party have pro-life candidates? Probably not. KEN MARTIN: Yeah.

Here's what I would say. At the end of the day, Donald Trump. has essentially stifled out any dissent within his party. JON STEWART: Well, certainly now. Yeah. KEN MARTIN: If a Republican elected official dare speak out. and stand up for their position, they're drummed out of the party. JON STEWART: But it's not ideological dissent. It's basically, if you like me and you'll do what I say, you're in. Because he's not ideologically consistent. He's socialist at times. He's corporatist. KEN MARTIN: Yeah, I see that. I see that.

JON STEWART: He's all over the map. KEN MARTIN: But there's no--. I guess, the larger point I'm trying to make. is there's no dissent allowed in that party. There's no debate. There's no difference of opinion. JON STEWART: Fealty. KEN MARTIN: The reality is, is they. are a very small tent as it relates to where. they stand on these issues. And whether that's true--. because I'm sure you have conversations. with Republicans who will tell you things privately. I do all the time, and they will then publicly, essentially. kiss his ring, to your point.

Because they don't want to be drummed out of the party. I think that's what I'm suggesting right now. is we are a big tent. We do have different--. I mean, you can see it play out in front of your eyes. with the debates between the different elected. officials in our party on any given issue. But I would say that, again, some people fear that. That's not me. It's the thing that helped our Democratic party grow. Let me share this. It's a little bit of a long story, but 1948, you and I were-- JON STEWART: Whoa! KEN MARTIN: I know. JON STEWART: Wait. What? OK. KEN MARTIN: Hear me out on this, because it's.

going to take a little bit. JON STEWART: We're going Truman? KEN MARTIN: No, it's--. JON STEWART: Is that where we're going? KEN MARTIN: It's going to take a little bit. of a meandering path. JON STEWART: All right. No worries. KEN MARTIN: Hear me out on this. 1948, a young mayor from Minneapolis, he's 34 years old at the time, brings a civil rights plank. to the national party committee, to the DNC, to our platform committee. The platform committee surprisingly. votes down a civil rights plank, votes it down. JON STEWART: By the way, not surprisingly. KEN MARTIN: Right. JON STEWART: Go ahead. KEN MARTIN: Yeah. This young mayor brings his minority report to the floor,

and he starts building support for it. Eventually, it passes. He gets up and gives that famous speech where he says, "it's time for the Democratic Party to come out. of the shadows of states' rights and march. forthrightly into the bright sunshine of human rights, civil rights.". That mayor, of course, was Hubert Humphrey. But all the Dixiecrats got up from our party. JON STEWART: Walked out. KEN MARTIN: They walked out. And as a result, our party became the party that. cemented with civil rights, and that. was a game changer for sure. 1972, in Miami, the convention there,

it was women and feminists who stood up. and pushed our party on an Equal Rights. Amendment and abortion rights. 2012, I was proud, in Charlotte, to be one of the authors of the Marriage Equality Amendment. I say this truly, Jon. Nothing good in our party--. I'm not going to talk about the Republican Party. Nothing good in our party happens. without new voices pushing our party to evolve on issues. It doesn't just happen organically. through the goodness of elected officials. and party leaders coming to their senses on any issue. It takes people pushing.

So how shortsighted would it be to me, for me, as the chair of the DNC to say, you know what? I disagree with your position. So you're out. No! The only thing that helps our party grow and evolve. is to bring new voices in who will help. push our party to be better. And I truly believe that. And yes, it's caused a lot of consternation and pain. and argument and all that over the years, but we're better off for it. And back to your earlier point about having a vision,

I couldn't agree with you more. The reality is, is we got to take it. from just the platitudes and have. a specific policy prescription, to your point about '94. Right? What Newt Gingrich did--. and I didn't agree with anything. that he stood for-- is this. He gave people a value proposition. JON STEWART: Gave 'em an infrastructure. KEN MARTIN: You vote for us. Here's what we're going to deliver. Here is the value proposition. The Democrats aren't doing shit to help you. Here's what we're going to do.

So what I have said to other leaders in this party is this. We've got to move from just the frame, from just the larger vision we have to specific policy. that gives people a sense of actually what we would do. if they put us back in power. JON STEWART: Do you have a sense that you know? It's interesting. Kamala Harris book is called 107 Days. KEN MARTIN: Yep. JON STEWART: And the premise of the book. is it's just not enough time. KEN MARTIN: Yeah. JON STEWART: People didn't know what I wanted to do.

KEN MARTIN: I think that's right. JON STEWART: But let me give the caveat. In 100 days, Trump has completely. transformed the entire nature of how our government operates. Now, it's the culmination of a 50 to 60. year plan put in place by Republican operatives, whether it be through their think. tanks or the Federalist Society or any of those other places. But there's an intentionality to it that it's creating it.

Democrats have been defending a broken status quo for 50 years. 107 days might not be enough time, but that ended in November. KEN MARTIN: Yes. JON STEWART: It's almost a year now. I still don't know what that plan would be, other than maybe you get $5,000 for a new housing start. To create a document like that, to come up. with the ideas of that, the thinking to me.

feels too conventional and institutional. And that institutional thinking doesn't. give me hope that there are those changes. that are going to be coming to the Democratic Party. Because I look at everything as process equals product. If your process is flawed, your product is going to be. KEN MARTIN: Yes. JON STEWART: --is going to be flawed. And I'm a little concerned about process.

And back to our original point, which. was that's more the purview of where you guys are. KEN MARTIN: Yep. JON STEWART: How are you--. you seem to understand where you want to go. Do you understand the process by which you want to get there? KEN MARTIN: Yes, for sure. I mean, look, we have a brand problem, a message problem, a messenger problem. JON STEWART: And a policy problem. KEN MARTIN: Well, that's the message. Right? And so the message problem we have. JON STEWART: It's not the message. KEN MARTIN: Well, here--. JON STEWART: The message is how you sell the policy. But--.

KEN MARTIN: Of course. JON STEWART: Shitty policies, it doesn't. matter how you message it. KEN MARTIN: Yeah. That's right. Brand, message, messenger problem, and we also have a tactics problem. in terms of message delivery, where we're getting. our message out to, et cetera. You can have the best message with a shitty messenger, and it's not going to break through. You could have a great messenger. with the right message, but if it's not delivered. to where people are getting their information, it doesn't matter. And then the last thing is, if people are already. preconditioned to believe something.

about the Democratic Party, i.e. a brand, it's also a challenge. I mean, think about this, Jon, last spring--. and it should have been the biggest canary in the coal mine. for Democrats. And most people missed this research. There was research that showed, for the first time. in modern history, that the perceptions of the two. political parties has changed, that the majority of Americans. now believe that the Republican Party best. represents the interests of the working class and the poor. And the Democratic Party is the party. of the wealthy and the elites. That is a wholesale sea change of where.

people and what people believed the Democratic. Party was fighting for. So they already have, in their minds, many parts. of our coalition, working class people believe. that the Republican Party best represents. their economic future and their chance for success. So if you're already--. your mind is already in that space, to Kamala's point, in 107 days, it's very hard to actually change that. Look, we spent, many of us in the years leading up. to that election, spent time talking.

about Biden's excellent economic record, high GDP, low unemployment, a booming stock market, real job. growth and wage growth. For the first time in 30 years, we saw wages increasing. And at a macro level, it was great. But when I was out there trying to sell that, especially. to union members and working class people I know, they were like, what kind of plan-- what. planet do you fucking live on? Because that's not happening in my life. I can barely put groceries on the table. I can't afford my rent.

At the end of the day, I can barely afford. to take my kids on a vacation. This economy is not working for me. JON STEWART: But that's what I'm--. I think what I'm saying is, you're saying, if we get better messengers and better messages, and I'm saying, that is all wrapping. paper if you don't have policies. that resonate with them. And that's where, I think, what we're talking about--. so my concern is that Donald Trump. is a tremendous diagnostician.

He is able to look into a place and go, here's the fault line of this issue. Here's where people's complaints are. KEN MARTIN: Right. JON STEWART: To say that the Biden administration thought. their economy was great, and when we went out. to talk to people, it turned out. it sucked is malpractice for the political class. of the Democratic Party. KEN MARTIN: I don't disagree with you. JON STEWART: So I worry that, when I hear the fixes, we got to really think about messaging and messengers.

and all that without hearing a more prescribed diagnostic--. right? if you don't have the diagnosis about why that is--. KEN MARTIN: Absolutely. JON STEWART: Why is it that government. policies are not connecting? Is it because the bureaucratic landmines. make it so that we can't build Wi-Fi in rural areas? Is it because our tax dollars will reflexively.

defend foreign programs or things. that are going to be cut without realizing. people are not feeling the effects of their tax dollars. KEN MARTIN: Yeah. I mean, I think it's all of that. And the reality is, look, Jon, I fired all those consultants. I fired every single one of them. JON STEWART: So that's why unemployment is ticking up. KEN MARTIN: There you go. No. JON STEWART: Because it's a large group. KEN MARTIN: Yeah. Let me tell you, I'm not interested. I mean, let me give you an example. Last year, the campaign spent a billion dollars.

on broadcast TV. Overall, there was $10 billion--. JON STEWART: How much? KEN MARTIN: $1 billion. Just the campaign. The--. JON STEWART: In 107 days? KEN MARTIN: Well, over that time. JON STEWART: 107 days? KEN MARTIN: Right. JON STEWART: Oh, OK. KEN MARTIN: So but let me just say this. Well, Kamala's campaign and Biden's campaign. combined, a billion dollars on broadcast TV. Here's the reality on this. I'm in my mid-50s. JON STEWART: I gotta tell you, you look fantastic. KEN MARTIN: [LAUGHS]. Thank you. Here's the deal. I still read a hard copy of a newspaper.

My boys think I'm a nut because I can get it on my phone. But the one thing my wife and I don't do, Jon, is I don't watch broadcast TV anymore. In fact, I don't know many people my age that do. JON STEWART: Does that include cable, basic cable? KEN MARTIN: No, I don't watch cable anymore. I'm all on streaming. JON STEWART: Son of a bitch. KEN MARTIN: I know. I'm sorry, Jon. So but the point is this. The reality is, is our tactics is a huge problem as well. But underlying all of this is what you said. If people don't know what the hell we're fighting for. and what specifically we would do to improve their lives,

it doesn't matter. We can fix the tactics. We can find the best messengers. We could fix our brand. At the end of the day, we have to give. people something to vote for. And I will say this. What is the lesson from Mamdani? And it's not ideological. People seem to think, well, the big lesson here is. you need to run to the left. No. The lesson here, whether you're in a very. conservative district or a very left leaning district, is very simple. One, authenticity matters.

People have a bullshit meter. People can tell. My old boss, Paul Wellstone, used to say, "you should never separate the life you lead. from the words you speak.". The reality is, there's too many politicians who do that. At the end of the day, people can smell through it. When you're talking about just platitudes, to your point, people can smell through it. Don't just tell me what I want to hear. I need to see you actually show me what you're going to do. and then deliver on it. And I want to come back on the delivering piece in a moment. JON STEWART: But I would say-- can I just--. KEN MARTIN: Please. JON STEWART: Very quickly, again, authenticity.

is the new buzzword. It's the new strategy is authenticity, but it's still a strategy. What I think connected with Mamdani. is he diagnosed a frustration within the population. of New York City. He understood that the real tenuousness of New York City. is affordability, that people--. KEN MARTIN: Of course. JON STEWART: --that the city itself has become--. and it wasn't the authenticity of and I'll eat with my hands.

and I'll do--. and I'll go out to the San Gennaro. and act like a real dude. It was, how in God's name is a plate of food. from a cart $12 or $15? KEN MARTIN: That's right. JON STEWART: And he deconstructed that. He was able to identify the crux of the issue. and very simply present some ideas that. might be able to battle that.

It's simpler than authenticity and the messenger. and the metrics. KEN MARTIN: Well, I do think it's simpler than that, because. at the end of the day, you could--. we have plenty of people who are saying the exact same thing. who aren't believed by voters. At the end of the day, this is where the authenticity matters. It's not just saying something. Right? JON STEWART: Well, you have to believe it, certainly. KEN MARTIN: But that's the point. The reason we've lost trust is because people don't believe. that we actually believe the shit we're selling them,

that we're saying-- we're telling. them what they want to hear. JON STEWART: To my point in the book--. KEN MARTIN: Yes. JON STEWART: When she says, I didn't go with Pete Buttigieg. because he's gay and that'd be too far, and you're like, oh my God, it's actually reverse affirmative action. It's like, what? KEN MARTIN: Yeah, but I think the point. here is that you have to be an authentic and. credible messenger. And it's not authenticity-- yes, that's the new buzzword. But now you got people--. it's the same thing with people want to show strength.

Right? JON STEWART: Now, everybody curses now. KEN MARTIN: Well, right. JON STEWART: By the way, a trend. that I was on for many, many years. now, if I may toot my own horn. KEN MARTIN: Right, right. But everyone's cursing, and everyone's getting up, giving these fiery speeches. You've got male elected officials. growing beards because they want to show. strength and masculinity. It's bullshit. Strength, it's action. It's action, and it's authenticity. Do you really, really believe the shit you're selling? Because let me ask you a question. And this is a question I pose to Democrats all over--. JON STEWART: Is this another rhetorical one,

or can I answer it? KEN MARTIN: No, nope. It's a question for your viewers. If you're not willing to fight like hell in this moment. for the things you believe in, do you. really believe in them at all? Because the greatest divide right now in our party, Jon, is not ideological. The greatest divide in our party. is between people who are using every lever of power they have. to actually fight back in this moment. and stand up and fight for what they believe in. and those who are sitting on the sidelines. But let me get back to the two other points that I think. were important. JON STEWART: OK. I want to answer to that as well. KEN MARTIN: OK. But to Mamdani, right?

It was not just authenticity. He also campaigned for something, to the point. we were making earlier. He didn't just run against the establishment, against his opponents. He gave people a value proposition. He said, here's my plan. Here's what I would do if I was elected. And it was focused on affordability. And the last thing that I think is important. is he was ubiquitous, in the sense. that he campaigned everywhere in person throughout New York. You couldn't walk throughout New York. without running into his campaign in some way.

And that was true in terms of his online presence. To your point about being on a halal food podcast, I watched that food podcast. It had like 25 to 50 people. If he had been listening to his consultants, they would have said, oh, don't go on that podcast. There's far few people listening. The point is, is be ubiquitous. Be everywhere. Don't discriminate. Talk to every single voter and give them a sense. of what you're standing for. And do it in a way that's real. Just be yourself. Just be honest. Be transparent. Be vulnerable. Put yourself out there.

Don't try to wordsmith. Don't do one of these, a finger in the wind politician. You long before there was a Bernie Sanders, there was a Paul Wellstone who was the OG progressive voice. in the Senate. And the reason people liked Paul is not because they agreed. with him 100% of the time, but they knew that he had. a core set of convictions that he. was willing to stand up and fight. for come hell or high water. That's authenticity. That's what Mamdani had. You cannot fake authenticity. It's either real, or it's not. And people have a bullshit meter, and they can see that. JON STEWART: Right. I want to talk a little bit about--.

it's this other thing that's sort of boiling up, which is we've got to fight. We've got to stand up and fight, and people, you've got to fight like hell. And I believe this is a moment that's going. to take effort and energy. And anything that I've ever see done. in Washington that I thought was of good value. was a protracted battle. What I'm seeing a lot from the Democratic Party. is you got to stand up and fight. But I'm not seeing a lot of directional energy.

to that regard. I'm seeing some theater. I'm seeing a variety of--. I'm not seeing a coherent effort. The thing about the energy, right now, out in the country, is maybe the most vast reserve of potential energy. that I can recall seeing, maybe since-- and I was very young. And so I probably don't have a great understanding of it. But as the Vietnam War was winding down, there was a feeling in the country,

a vast potential energy of a new way to move forward. And I'm seeing a lot of that now, and I'm seeing the urgings of a party. The issue that I'm seeing is, to convert. that potential energy into kinetic energy. is going to dissipate out into the atmosphere. if it doesn't have a focus, if it doesn't have a parabolic way. of creating heat and light. Because it's not enough to say, you've got to go to these town.

halls and stand up and yell. Like, that's not where people's thirst is. KEN MARTIN: That's right. JON STEWART: They want to convert that potential energy. to kinetic energy to start-- they want to start. understanding that the politician that wants to lead. them knows what's wrong with the system. that they're seeking to fix. KEN MARTIN: Yes. JON STEWART: And I have not seen a great deal of that.

And isn't that job one that will help be the stepping stone. for all those other things that you talk. about, that are so necessary? Right? KEN MARTIN: Yes. JON STEWART: Everything you're talking about. is necessary to create a sustained movement of change. in that direction. KEN MARTIN: Yes. The short answer is yes. JON STEWART: But have we missed that? Oh, you know what we forgot to do is build the front steps?

KEN MARTIN: No, I don't think so. I mean, look, this is a rebuilding process right now. And part of the reason I ran is not just as. a result of the last election cycle, Jon. I have seen over 20 some odd years negligence on the part. of the Democratic Party. But let's just take how we campaign as an example. Put the messaging stuff aside for a second. We show up three months before an election. and have the first conversation with voters. And usually that first conversation is, hey, we need you to do something for our party. We need you to vote for us. Right?

So it's a very transactional relationship. Then, again, they don't see us for two more years. Same time we come around, we have the same conversation. Repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat. And suddenly people start saying, well, holy shit. The only time I see that Ken guy is when. he needs something for me. He doesn't really seem to be invested. in me, my community, my life. And so you start to lose trust. The second piece of this, by the way, is delivering, which is we get into power, we make these promises, hey,

vote for Democrats. We're going to actually make a difference in your community. We get into power, and then we don't. deliver on those promises in a real way. that actually moves forward. So the idea of actually presenting. a vision of going back--. again, no one believes the status quo. is working for them right now. We have to present a new vision of government that works. for working people again, a new vision of where this Democratic. Party is going. Because that old vision, people don't buy it.

Clearly, the brand is broken, but also the old sort. of platform and approach to policy is not working, which again, requires us to move from the platitudes. to the specifics, so people know, how is what you're selling me any different from what you. told me for the last 30 years and my life is. still the fucking same? JON STEWART: Who's involved in that process? Because when you talk about--. I'm going to relate this to the only thing I. know how to relate it to, which is. the New York Football Giants. They are also rebuilding. It's been about 10 years now, and. they keep talking about we just got to fix the offensive line.

But they keep going with the status quo of people. That goes back a little bit to what we talked about earlier. Is the process by which you are doing. that flexible enough, open enough, visionary enough--. KEN MARTIN: Yes. JON STEWART: --that you're not just. bringing in Neera Tanden and Jake Sullivan and going like, so have at it? Are you-- is the institutional thinking.

being challenged enough to create that step. that needs to be created? KEN MARTIN: Yeah. I mean, look, we're certainly pushing here. I mean, we started right when I came in with a whole branding. and narrative project that's outside of what. our policymakers and others are doing. up in Congress and throughout the country to really--. and this, again, is very technical, but I think it's important. JON STEWART: Technical in the sense of like, digital or--.

KEN MARTIN: No. Well, some--. JON STEWART: Computer? KEN MARTIN: No. [LAUGHS] No, no, no. Here's where it's technical, which. is I think the research that we've. used to understand public sentiment is really flawed. Quantitative and qualitative research is. only as good as the inputs in. And so--. JON STEWART: Come to the deli I go to. You will get-- the feedback is very clear. KEN MARTIN: This is the point I'm make--. JON STEWART: It's very clear. KEN MARTIN: This is the point I'm making actually, Jon. Thank you for sharing this because actually, Bill Clinton. said this in '92, which again, hasn't changed, which is we really want to know how the American people are,

go and sit in a cafe or go to a Friday night football game. and listen to parents around you. We don't do that anymore. And by the way, because we're only connecting with voters. three months before an election, we're just getting a sliver of the actual public sentiment. And this is why we have a brand problem. At the end of the day, we're not listening anymore. And so much of this is listening. So we are, from a technical standpoint, we're using AI and social listening tools. to actually get, on a daily basis, what's happening. out there on social media.

JON STEWART: But Ken, Ken, it's--. KEN MARTIN: We're also getting out to the cafes. and to the football games. We're doing ethnographic research. JON STEWART: For AI listening tools. and-- it's so fucking simple. KEN MARTIN: It is simple. JON STEWART: People have kids. KEN MARTIN: I've said this. JON STEWART: They have kids, and the kids get older, and they got to save money for college. And just in the moment where they're spending a shit ton. of money on college, their parents get older. and they got to spend money on doing their parents. And there's nothing that the government. is really providing for them or helping them out with.

And the cost of their housing and the education and the elder. care and the child care-- like, do. we really need AI tools to understand. that it's about that trap? It's the trap that people find themselves in. KEN MARTIN: You're absolutely right, Jon. And this is the issue. You don't need any of that. But the question is, without any of that, you're just sitting in a back room. with a bunch of policymakers deciding on things. that have no connection to the American people.

and their lives. JON STEWART: They're doing that anyway. Washington, DC is the most insulated, isolated--. KEN MARTIN: Agree with you. JON STEWART: --lobby surrounded--. KEN MARTIN: Agree. Agree. This is why I don't spend much time here. I've been on-- I unfortunately live in this godforsaken town. now, and my family's all back in Minnesota. But I will tell you, in the eight months--. JON STEWART: I've heard it's very safe now. KEN MARTIN: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, federal troops. But let me just say this. Eight months on the job, I've been in 32 states. Elections aren't won in DC. They're won in the states, and they're.

won by connecting to people. And they're won by connecting to exactly. what you're talking about, the struggles of everyday life. And I will tell you, as much as you talked. about having a very prescriptive policy point, I think that's right. We do have to have a policy agenda, but we also have to zoom out. And because it's very simple, it's what you said. And I'll share the story of my father-in-law for a moment. because he's a beef cattle farmer in Southern Minnesota. and 85 years old. And-- JON STEWART: Oh, wow. And he's still out there doing it? KEN MARTIN: He's still out there.

JON STEWART: Oh, that's not easy. Boy. KEN MARTIN: But I will tell you, he has this--. he's voted Democrat his whole life. And in '16, '20 and '24, he voted for Trump. And in '16, I said, Dave, why did you vote for Trump? Thinking he'd give me some sort of policy answer on egg. policy or--. what he told me, and this goes to your point, he said, look, the high school that I went to. has closed down and consolidated. with another high school. So I no longer have a Friday night football game to go to.

The grocery store on Main Street is closed. So I got to drive a lot further to just get my groceries. The clinic that was in town has closed, and now my wife, who has Parkinson's disease, I have to drive 100 miles to get her health care. Right? The farm that my family's farmed for 135 years, none of my kids, including your wife, want to come home and farm it. And so-- truly. I mean, what you're not hearing there is policy. I want you to--.

what you're hearing is, here's a guy, 85 years old. He shouldn't have a knot of anxiety. in the world about his future, because his future. is not that long. Right? In the sense that he's on the tail end of his life, he should be living carefree at this moment. But he does have a knot of anxiety in his future. because his whole identity is being taken away from him. The world around him is changing, and what he feels. is no one sees him. No one cares about what's happening in his community. So along comes the biggest con man.

and snake oil salesman in the world saying, Make America Great Again. And there's people like Dave O'Rourke saying, well, you know what? I do want things to be the way they were. I do want my community to be vibrant and robust. Now, of course, there's nothing that Donald Trump. would do or has done that would actually. improve Dave O'Rourke's life. Just the opposite. But the point is, at the end of the day, one thing you said that really resonates with me, it's really simple. What people want in life, it's very simple.

They just want to be able to get ahead. They want to be able to build a better life for their families. They want to be able to maybe, just maybe, take a vacation, to retire with dignity, to give their kids. a shot and an opportunity. It's as simple as that. Yes, there's policies underneath we. need to talk about, but when we lose. that piece and the policies are disconnected from the struggle, then what the fuck are we doing? That's what I'm talking about. JON STEWART: And I also think, in all the craziness. that goes along, I almost think that the next great successful.

politician, I think their slogan for the election. will be, it's enough already. Because that's what it feels like. And I do think, sometimes, the spiral feels inevitable, but I don't think it is. And oddly enough, I remain steadfastly optimistic--. KEN MARTIN: That's good. JON STEWART: --within that. And is that-- do you continue to feel that way as well?

KEN MARTIN: I'm very optimistic about our chances to win. And I will tell you, I'm-- JON STEWART: Oh, Ken. KEN MARTIN: No, no, let me tell you--. JON STEWART: We were this close, buddy. This close! KEN MARTIN: No, I'm going to switch to the other piece. JON STEWART: Just winning without--. KEN MARTIN: No, no, this is my point. I'm not optimistic that winning in '26 and '28 helps us win. And what do I mean by that? JON STEWART: Yeah. KEN MARTIN: If we do it the wrong way again, we're not building trust with voters. If we do it the wrong way again, without a very specific.

policy agenda, we're not building something that. transforms people's lives. If we build it in a way that actually doesn't reflect. where the American people are at, it's just not going to work. And so I am optimistic that we'll win. I'm not as optimistic, as much as I'm trying to change. the way we do this, that we can change, to your point, this whole ecosystem in this short time. Here's what I'm pessimistic about. And I want to be really clear. I think in this moment right now,

there's something bigger at stake. here that we didn't even talk about. And I don't want to focus on Trump. But when I was growing up, there. were values that united us in this country, that. were not partisan values, that united. Democrats and Republicans. And you and I could say, well, at least they agree on this. Right? Now, those values, like the idea. of due process in this country or the rule of law, separation of power, belief in a free and independent press,

the idea that we would stand with our allies. around the world and protect emerging democracies, those were things that we could always. count on Democrats and Republicans agreeing upon, by and large. JON STEWART: By and large. I would say, that's a slightly nostalgic view, but--. KEN MARTIN: Well--. JON STEWART: But--. KEN MARTIN: Listen, in this moment right now, those values, even the freedom of speech, right? I mean, shit, the--. JON STEWART: Oh, listen, I will not in any way.

argue that we are not under a pressurized crucible of unitary. executive like I haven't seen. It is the type of governance from a really. vindictive and small person creating. emergencies that don't exist. I just want to make sure that, like, there. was no past of all Americans could at least agree that there. were three separate branches of government. and they all had an equal say in-- like, that's.

never been the real case. KEN MARTIN: Sure. JON STEWART: And we've always argued. back and forth from the expansion of rights. for different groups--. KEN MARTIN: Of course. JON STEWART: --the suppression of rights for different groups. Like, we cannot say, in a country. that had Jim Crow from--. KEN MARTIN: You're absolutely right. JON STEWART: --the decades that we had it, that somehow we all agreed on certain. values because we didn't. KEN MARTIN: No, but I think, at the core, there may have been differences of opinion. about what those values are. Now you have a party who basically.

could give a shit about due process and says as much. They could give a shit about the rule of law. and separation of power. JON STEWART: Well, their principle is power. KEN MARTIN: Right. JON STEWART: Their principle is power. KEN MARTIN: So, I mean, I think that's the challenge right now. is we both have to fight for something. And at the same time, we have to acknowledge that, when. people say to me, well, I don't know. if there's going to be elections. in '26, who knows if this democracy survives that long? I think if people had said that to me four years ago,

I would have thought maybe they should be institutionalized. It's not out of the realm of possibility. And I understand people's nervousness and anxiousness. Because so many of those core values, yes, there were differences, but they seemed to be. fundamental to who we are. I mean, think about just the attack in the last week. on freedom of speech. There's a reason it's the First Amendment. Right? It's the most important right in our Constitution, in our Bill of Rights, is the ability. for people to stand up, to speak. out, to share their opinions.

And that's now under attack. So I say all of this because I think where people's angst. and anxiety comes from is not just the fact. that the Democratic Party has a piss poor message. and isn't necessarily presenting. an alternative to what the Republicans are doing. It's also what the Republicans are doing. JON STEWART: Oh-- no question. KEN MARTIN: And their anxiety that, holy shit, we may not have our democracy anymore. JON STEWART: Yeah. There is definitely a tenuousness. to a lot of the things that we thought were--.

it feels a little bit like the hot air balloon, where it's. just like there's just now the two ropes. that are holding it together. And you're like, I don't know about those two. KEN MARTIN: Yeah. JON STEWART: But we really appreciate you taking the time. I know you're busy. I know you want to get out of DC. DNC Chair Ken Martin, thanks for joining us today. Really appreciate the conversation. KEN MARTIN: Thank you, Jon. JON STEWART: Thanks, man. KEN MARTIN: Appreciate it. [THEME MUSIC]. JON STEWART: I'm going to tell you guys something. I don't know how to feel.

I felt like, every time I brought up something, he was like, yeah, that's right. He would just go back-- you know? Yeah, but you don't want to do like these consultant driven--. "I've gotten rid of all the consultants. So here's what we're doing. We're going out with the AI and we're looking into this--". and I'm like, but I think we just-- didn't we just say, no, it's about authenticity? But it's not authenticity he diagnosed a problem. He went, no, no, no, not authenticity. Well, you just said. I felt like I was talking-- it was like an improv exercise. where I would say something and he would go, yes and!

GILLIAN SPEAR: No and, and then yes and. JON STEWART: No and, and yes and. GILLIAN SPEAR: Yeah. JON STEWART: How were you experien--. I felt for a second like, am I being gas-- like, I wasn't sure. what was happening. LAUREN WALKER: No, there was a lot of contradiction. just from past statements. And by past, I mean a month ago to today. and even within this conversation. So I can totally see why there's no message. JON STEWART: Not only can I see why there's no message.

I can see why there's no method. I'm not even sure we settled on that. GILLIAN SPEAR: I mean, I've been told that the Republican. Party is this existential threat to democracy, and I happen to agree with that. But whether or not Democratic politicians act on that. seems to only come into play when. it aligns with their political ambitions. And I'm exhausted by that right now. I would love if we could come up. with something to rally around and not just wait it out.

JON STEWART: Right. LAUREN WALKER: I understand that Ken Martin can't control. the candidates, even though he's recruiting. people and putting-- whatever. JON STEWART: No, no, no. Neutrality. They have a declaration of neutrality. LAUREN WALKER: I know. But something that did stand out to me. is that we didn't discuss the fact that Mamdani partially. was so successful because the other Democrats, like Brad. Lander, rallied around and made it more about the Democrats. than about individual power. And something that stood out to me in our Pritzker conversation.

two weeks ago is that, when you specifically. asked that question, is individual ambition. getting in the way of Democrats working together? And his answer was about how people get elected. JON STEWART: That was the wildest part to me. By the way, thank you for bringing all that together. with past conversations because I don't listen to this podcast. I don't care for it. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: What? JON STEWART: But I have to say, I think that's what struck.

me is you would say, isn't there. a principled, inspiring message of change. that is step one to building the thing? Absolutely, and that's why we changed our branding. Just none of the statements felt--. it all felt discordant to me. And boy, do I have sympathy for the difficulty of what it is. and how exhausting it must be. But wow is that hard to listen to eight months into.

and the strategy still seems to be, historically, the party not in power gains seats in the mid-term. GILLIAN SPEAR: And when you look at, I mean, the 2012 autopsy, they came out of that. with the same diagnosis, I think, that Democrats are having now, which. is we have these amazing ideas and it's all really good. JON STEWART: We're kind of awesome. GILLIAN SPEAR: Except we can't communicate it to the people, and we just have to get better at that. JON STEWART: Everybody loves us.

GILLIAN SPEAR: And the Republicans. were successful in the 2014 midterms. Maybe that's just the way that it goes. But they lost their party. JON STEWART: Right. GILLIAN SPEAR: And they kind of lost the country. LAUREN WALKER: I'd say, the only thing really that's. changed in the messaging from like eight months ago to now. is just the passage of the so-called Big Beautiful Bill. They're saying, we need to highlight how it's going. wrong, what's bad with it. Like, that's really the only change I've seen. JON STEWART: But still defending. the status quo of programs that most people think are broken.

LAUREN WALKER: Yeah. JON STEWART: They somehow devalue even the struggles. of their own actual constituents. in an effort to appease people that, to his point, may be unwinnable. But maybe they're unwinnable, but boy, it would be helpful. if you had something that you thought was affirmative. and not just strategic. But fuck, man. But we are back. Anyway, Brittany, what are the questions they. want from us this week?

BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: They're writing in. First up, since Trump renamed the Department of Defense. to the Department of War, what would you rename the Department. of Justice under Trump? JON STEWART: Oh. Wow. I would say, the Law Firm of Trump, Giuliani and Associates. I would rename it as that. Yeah. No, it is-- when the Department of Justice becomes. just a department in the Trump organization, so however he would--.

I would say, he'd probably call it like the eighth floor. You know? Oh, you got to run to the eighth floor. They'll take care of that stuff for you, and you'll be able to sue whoever. it is that you need to sue. So, yeah, there is no Department of Justice. There is merely the legal wing of the Trump organization. And that's how it will remain, sadly. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Wonderful. JON STEWART: Wonderful. I wish I had a better moniker for it. Yeah? BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Next up, Jon, is it--. JON STEWART: It could be-- it could be actually--.

no, I was going to make a joke about Jewish lawyers, but I--. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Do it. LAUREN WALKER: On Rosh Hashanah? JON STEWART: On Rosh Hashanah. I forgot. I forgot. Go ahead. What's the next one? BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Jon, is it time for another Rally. to Restore Sanity and/or Fear? JON STEWART: No. The last one didn't take. And this one wouldn't take either. And I don't think I can have another day where I fuck. up without even realizing that I'm fucking--. we had this whole--. I've told you guys. We had that whole thing planned, you know, Cat Stevens, Yusuf Islam is going to come. out and sing "Peace Train.".

Stephen's going to cut him off. Ozzy Osbourne is going to jump in and sing "Crazy Train.". And then we're going to end it with. the O'Jays singing "Love Train,". and the whole thing goes off. I mean, we rehearsed it in a trailer that morning. Ozzy Osbourne, literally right before the entire performance. started, after we had done all this rehearsing in the trailer, I go up to Ozzy right before and I go, Yusuf. is going to do "Peace Train.". Just-- Stephen's going to cut off, and then you. jump in with "Crazy Train." Right. And he's like, oh, yeah. [MUMBLES].

As I'm walking away, he goes, ah! Who's Stephen? [LAUGHTER]. So that was-- and then literally like the next day, Salman Rushdie's on the phone with me going, how can a Rally to Restore Sanity. have a singer that wants me dead? Then I'm like, wait, what? What the fuck? So there was a whole hullabaloo. So yeah. Not only did we not restore sanity. anywhere, but I lost mine, for God's sakes. But it's a delight.

How can people keep these questions coming? BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Our Twitter, we are WeeklyShowPod. Instagram, Threads, TikTok, Bluesky, we are WeeklyShowPodcast, and you can like, subscribe, and comment on our YouTube channel, The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart. JON STEWART: Respect. Guys, as always, fabulous, fabulous job. Lead producer Lauren Walker, producer Brittany Mehmedovic, producer Gillian Spear, video editor and engineer Rob Vitolo, audio editor and engineer Nicole Boyce, executive producers Chris McShane, Caity Gray. Guys, fantastic job, and we will see you all next week.

Bye bye. [THEME MUSIC]. The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart. is a Comedy Central podcast. It's produced by Paramount Audio and Busboy Productions.