VP Kamala Harris on Defeat, Democrats & the Fight Ahead | The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart

KAMALA HARRIS: Listen, relationships are complicated. [LAUGHS]. JON STEWART: That's why I don't have them. KAMALA HARRIS: Well-- JON STEWART: That's why--. KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah, well, so let. me explain something to you, Jon, about relationships. [LAUGHS]. JON STEWART: My advice is this, lone wolf, baby. It's lone wolf. It's introversion. And you keep to yourself. [THEME MUSIC]. JON STEWART: Hello, everybody. My name's Jon Stewart. I host The Weekly Show Podcast with Jon Stewart. How convenient. It is Wednesday, October 29.

Tomorrow is Thursday, October 30. That's probably where you're gonna be hearing this stuff. We got a nice guest for you today. She ran for president just recently. Yeah, that's right. Vice President Kamala Harris is gonna be joining us later. And we'll be talking about all kinds of different things. And I'm assuming we can only conduct. the conversation because the--. the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump. is overseas, where he really seems to enjoy it much more. than being here.

I really think the problem that he has with America is, we don't throw him enough parades with cultural music. I think if we just, no matter where he goes, have a red carpet at the ready, and people playing the music. of countries he's never actually been to, dressed. in cultural garb, and then we just give him gifts, I think this is the way we can get through these next. three years.

Every day is Christmas in Malaysia. That's what we have to make America. The shit that they are giving him, I don't know who is running through the gift list there, but when-- when the new Japanese prime minister. gave him a gold golf ball, I was. like, that's just-- nailed it. That was-- when they came up with that idea, they were tossing things around. What should we give him? How about a new cryptocurrency? No, he's already in the billions in the--. Well, put his name on something here. No.

Gold golf ball, to combine--. it's the Reese's peanut butter cup of gifts you. could give to Donald Trump. It's a golf ball walking by--. a gold-- I don't know what. Something gold. I probably should have had that more at the ready. Yeah, that was a good one. But beyond that, let's get to our golden golf. ball for our audience. This is the segue of the century, for God's sakes.

Let's just get to it. [THEME MUSIC]. Folks, we're delighted. Today we are joined by the former Vice President. of these United States of America, who has just written a book, called 107 Days, about the campaign for president in 2024 Please. welcome Vice President Kamala Harris. Madam Vice President--. KAMALA HARRIS: Hi, Jon. JON STEWART: Hello. KAMALA HARRIS: How are you? JON STEWART: How-- how am I? How are you. KAMALA HARRIS: I'm good, you know, all things considered.

And there is a lot to consider. JON STEWART: Yes. How is the tour? You conceived of the book. Was this sort of a way for you to memorialize the run? Did you view it as a postmortem? What was-- what was kinda the impetus behind, you know, recording this and putting it down? KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah. Well, there were a number of reasons. One-- listen, it's part of America's history. And it's gonna be written about. And it was important to me to make sure.

that my voice is present in the way those hundred. and seven days are-- are talked about and-- and written about. And--. But, I mean, there are other reasons. It was-- it was an election that. is unprecedented in American history, in recent American history. But you had-- we had a-- a sitting president who was. running for reelection, and 3 and 1/2. months out from the election, decides not to run. The sitting vice president takes up the mantle. against a former president who had.

been running for 10 years, with a hundred and seven days to go. JON STEWART: You sound like you're pitching. this to NBC Universal as a--. imagine this, Jessica Chastain is the vice president. KAMALA HARRIS: But I mean--. but think about it. JON STEWART: Yeah, it's crazy. KAMALA HARRIS: But it is. It is. And I wrote the book like a journal. It's like a journal, so specific days. and what it was like. And I think more than anything, the-- the utility of the book, I hope, is to really lift up the hood on how this all works.

I think that there's so much about, obviously, who becomes president of the United States. that impacts all of us and people around the globe. But the process by which it occurs is really quite opaque. And I think this is part of what is a problem, this--. in this moment, which is, there's just. a lack of transparency around how. these systems work, how government works, how politics works. And-- and so I do believe that there.

is part of that aspect of the book, that is meaningful. JON STEWART: And what-- because that, to me, is fascinating. because I think it's also--. I agree with you/ Learning about that process, for me in the book, was wild. What parts of that process do you. think Americans most either misunderstand or should. understand, you know, that helps people understand better. how candidates are chosen, how candidates are managed,

how candidates become elected? KAMALA HARRIS: I think part of it. is that there are a lot of variables that. go into the whole process that are not. obvious to the American people, whether it is. about a consideration of a candidate's strength. or viability based on their ability to fund raise, who is gonna support them? Where is that support gonna come from? I think there is a huge aspect of the modern campaign, that.

is about profound and vast amounts of mis. and disinformation, and how does a campaign. actually address that? Especially if the process by doing it is at this point. arcane, which is that we have not updated the process to be. in the 21st century, and understand how social media. and technology can influence the mis. and disinformation that has a huge. impact on where voters start. And then you wanna go through a process of talking to voters.

I mean, Jon, part of the--. I think what's wrong is this assumption. and the language that talks about. low-information voters, that--. voters aren't low information. They are filled with information. JON STEWART: Too much information voters? KAMALA HARRIS: Well, not too much information. But don't start with the assumption. that you're working with a blank slate, right? People have information. And to the extent that they have been targeted with. or are receiving mis and disinformation, the-- the challenge is not just so-called educating the voter,

but actually, first, being aware of whatever it is. that they've been hearing, and then figuring out. how you are going to have that conversation. to challenge the assumptions that people are coming with. And-- and I say that to everybody. I-- I was-- been talking recently, during the book tour, about, you know, the assumptions. that we are making about the people. who voted differently than us. And we-- we should challenge some of those assumptions,

meaning that we have-- we have assumed that someone who votes. differently than us may have a different. set of morals or values or--. or principles that are important to them. But let's first step back and ask the question, are we working with the same information? Right? And I purposely say "information". cause fact is fact. 2 plus 2 is 4. But are we working with the same information? Because I think we are finding this environment.

that we aren't always working with the same information. And so the conclusion that we draw. is not based on the same set of facts. And that's part of what is the challenge of this environment. JON STEWART: Does that then relate a campaign to sort. of a process of education? KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah, but first being educated about--. JON STEWART: Educated yourself? KAMALA HARRIS: Yes, about what we think people are working. with in terms of information. For example, here's part of why I say that I think it's arcane. So I have knocked on a lot of doors.

in campaigning for myself and other people. And in a nutshell--. I'll oversimplify it, but in a nutshell, here's what we do. We send-- we call them canvassers, door knockers. We send them out with a clipboard and a piece of paper. And it says, OK, on a scale of 1 to 5, find out how Mrs. Smith feels about candidate Jon Stewart. And then you record, OK, really hot on Jon Stewart, don't like him at all, ambivalent.

And so you take that information back. to headquarters. And then two weeks before the election, if they were anywhere. from open to the idea of Jon Stewart. to love Jon Stewart, right--. [LAUGHTER]. --you say, hey, Mrs. Smith, election is next Tuesday. And this is your polling place, instead of sending them out. to knock on Mrs. Smith's door, and when she starts talking. about, you know, I heard this thing. about Jon Stewart on my Facebook group on,

you know, fly fishing or my knitting group, and I heard this thing about it, and asking, what exactly-- what's the name of the group? What exactly did you hear? [LAUGHTER]. And listening, listening to that voter, that person--. JON STEWART: Oh, no. KAMALA HARRIS: They heard all kinds of things, you know? I mean, the fly fishing community, they're kind of--. JON STEWART: I know. They're-- they're very against me right now. KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah, they're not sure about you. Right? JON STEWART: Yeah. A river does not run through it when it comes to Jon. Stewart, that's for sure. KAMALA HARRIS: But taking that information back--.

JON STEWART: Right. KAMALA HARRIS: --and listen--. and seriously listening to accumulate the information. and data about where people are because if we are assuming. that we know everything they know based on the fact that we. only watch CNN and MSNBC--. JON STEWART: Right. KAMALA HARRIS: --we're screwed. JON STEWART: So here's where I would imagine, cause what's. interesting to me is, you're sort of saying. that the processes by which we elect a candidate.

are now outdated. And so if the processes by which--. KAMALA HARRIS: A lot of them are. JON STEWART: Right, so that we won't know. Yet, you know, when I think back to Cambridge Analytica. scandals or the way that data is used, I'm assuming that campaigns know more about the voters. that they're targeting, that--. that the idea that canvassing would be the manner by which. campaigns would learn about voters. seems quaint to me cause I assume,

like it is in-- in television, we know more about the consumer. or the viewer or the voter than we've ever known in the history. of knowing things, and that canvassing. is always gonna be kind of a blunt instrument, I would think. KAMALA HARRIS: Right, and one would argue outdated, to be frank, with people having, you know, their Nest and their-- all the cameras, if they see somebody. coming with a clipboard, they're probably. not even answering the door. So to your point, I agree with you.

But-- but fundamentally, yes, it is knowable, to your. point, right? And in particular in the private sector. and certainly, corporations, have. huge and complex systems to understand. where, to your point, the consumer is. What are their likes, dislikes? Right? What language works for them? JON STEWART: And the government probably has the most of that, doesn't it? KAMALA HARRIS: Well, but again, we're talking about campaigns. We're not talking about the government. We're not talking about corporations. And part of what we need to do--. and I'll speak for the Democratic Party on be--.

that in my experience as the Democratic nominee, part. of what we've gotta do is upgrade. our systems of knowing where the voter and where people are. And that is about having mechanisms that. allow us to yes, collect and analyze data correctly, but also to challenge ourselves. Are we listening to everyone? For example, in my book tour, the-- the assumption. was, I'm gonna go to New York, LA, DC, and Chicago.

JON STEWART: Right. KAMALA HARRIS: I said very clearly--. and so we have done this--. I'm going down South in addition to those places. So I have-- I said, I wanna go to Durham, which is where we went. I wanna go to Birmingham. Jon, do you know in the first 24 hours of announcing the book. tour, Birmingham sold out in the first 24 hours. so that we had two shows in Birmingham? JON STEWART: Great. KAMALA HARRIS: I'm going to Nashville, of course, Atlanta. Right? And so part of it is--. JON STEWART: You sound like a comic now, you know?

This schedule sounds like my schedule. KAMALA HARRIS: Well, but let's go where the people are. Right? And again, I think underlying a lot of my concern. is, is let's challenge our assumptions. about where people are, what they're thinking, what they know. JON STEWART: Are the people that are gonna come to see you, in Birmingham or Durham or LA or New York--. I mean, I understand the regional differences and things. along that matter, but in the same way of canvassing, are you really learning about them in a real way,

embedding yourself? Or is it kind of a prescribed experience. that each experience is the same? Knowing what it's like to travel--. and I can't imagine what it's like for you, but you are, I would assume, insulated from the reality of those. experiences unless you go out of your way. to design something--. KAMALA HARRIS: Right. JON STEWART: --but outside of the people. that would come to see you?

KAMALA HARRIS: So I have been doing that. JON STEWART: Right. KAMALA HARRIS: I've not been doing it with the press, but when I've been visiting these various cities--. and I've not been--. I have not made it--. I guess this is the first time I'm actually. talking about it publicly. JON STEWART: What the hell? Are we breaking? What? Hey! Hold on! Extry, extry. KAMALA HARRIS: But I have been. I have been. And so bringing people together, in particular people. under 40, under the age of 40, bringing people together, a cross-section of people, a cross-section of race.

and obviously, geographic location, background, educational level, and literally listening to them--. like, I ask one question, how you doing? And then the rest of that time, one to two hours at least, is listening. And it's-- you know, for me, I'll speak for myself, I need to--. I want to do that more because people have a lot to say. And when you give them a safe place to do it, where it is OK to disagree, where. it is OK to talk about your fears and your hopes.

without judgment, people have a lot to say. [BASS MUSIC]. JON STEWART: I need you to listen to this. Yeah, put your-- are you listening? Are you in your car? Pull over. Free breakfast for a year. It's a lot of breakfast. And normally, I'd save a surprise. like that for the end of the ad, because that's kind of, you know, I guess what they call--. I don't have time for the build up because again, I am lazy, which is why I love Factor, because they just bring.

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and qualifying auto-renewing subscription purchase. [THEME MUSIC]. JON STEWART: Have you been surprised. by-- by what they're saying? Has it been revelatory to you? KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah, some of it has. I mean, first of all, number-one issue for everybody. is the cost of living, number-one issue. I actually believe that when we think about the election. in '24, we should understand that there are, I think, a significant number of people who. voted for the guy who is in the White.

House based on one belief. JON STEWART: I haven't finished the book. Don't tell me who wins. I don't wanna know the ending. [LAUGHTER]. KAMALA HARRIS: It's a thriller. It's a political thriller. JON STEWART: All right. KAMALA HARRIS: But based-- they believed. him when he said he was gonna bring down prices on day one. And of course, he lied. You know, inflation is up. Unemployment is up. The cost of food is up. But one of the things that I'm hearing. is that number-one concern, especially for people.

under the age of 40, is the cost of not only groceries, but housing, a real concern about the future of work. in terms of technology. And-- and another thing I'm hearing, in particular. from parents of younger children. and high-school age children is the impact. of social media on their kids and their mental health. And then for every parent or anyone who's parenting a child,

affordable child care is a huge, huge issue. I mean that-- I campaigned on that issue. I believe probably that and then what I intended to do, which is have Medicare cover home health care for people, especially in the sandwich generation, who. are raising young children and taking care of their parents, it's a huge issue. JON STEWART: Is any of that, like--. is any of that markedly different from what. you would imagine? I mean, I would imagine what you're laying out, in some respects, is what you would. have been laying out in 2020 when. you guys were running and--.

and kind of as you went along in terms of-- of governing is--. it doesn't sound like any of those things. are markedly different from what. you would have been hearing from people for-- for a while. KAMALA HARRIS: Here's what I would. have done differently in terms of our administration on this. JON STEWART: Mm-hmm. KAMALA HARRIS: I think we--. so what we did on infrastructure, what we did. with the CHIPS Act, incredibly important in terms of job. creation, in terms of making the United States.

the-- the manufacturer for the world. on this important commodity, chips. But I would have sequenced our priorities differently. I think we should have started with the care economy. I think we should have started with our agenda. around affordable child care, which would have been. at 7% of someone's income, extension of the child tax. credit, which reduced child poverty by half in America, paid leave--. JON STEWART: During the pandemic, you were talking about? KAMALA HARRIS: We talked about during the pandemic, but it-- we-- but the-- the--.

the effect of it as a priority would. have been, if we had sequenced it differently, that it would. have been beyond the pandemic. It would have been permanent. And I think we should have done that first. I think we have to address the needs, the current needs, the existential--. JON STEWART: Right. KAMALA HARRIS: --threats to--. to people getting through the week, much less the month. JON STEWART: All right, here we go. So now-- now we're getting into the meat. Here we go. Folks, Get out your-- your knife and fork. KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah, but I wanna do that.

But here's the other thing I wanna do cause it's connected. I-- just one other thing in terms of what I'm hearing--. JON STEWART: Please. KAMALA HARRIS: --and the subtext. to a lot of what I'm hearing, we have. a huge trust issue in America. It is what has existed, including highlighted during. the pandemic, which is the trust or distrust or mistrust. that the people have in their government and in its systems, many of which failed the people during the pandemic, but also-- and we're not talking enough about this--.

the distrust that exists between the American people, of each other. And I'm not talking about just, you know, can I leave my door unlocked at night? I'm talking about a--. can I trust that you are not a threat to my very existence? And I think this is a very real issue in our country right now. And we have to deal with it. We have to deal with it. And it cuts a lot of ways, you know?

JON STEWART: Well, I think a lot of that is probably related. to-- you know, if you look at social media. and the incentive structure of it, it's designed for hostility and anger. And if that's the main driving force of communication between. people, you know, I think it's probably pretty clear that it. catastrophizes, generally, so that everybody finds. themselves in a constant state of lather. because that's how it's--. the algorithm is designed to do that to you.

KAMALA HARRIS: And it's designed--. it's-- you know, we talked about it in-- you know, I'm gonna like--. Psychology 101 in college. But--. JON STEWART: Bring it. KAMALA HARRIS: --the id, the id, right? It is--. JON STEWART: Our deepest desires, animal, primitive. KAMALA HARRIS: And what is most primitive, that is--. part of-- the reason for the-- this--. you know, the life of the species, human species, is to instill fear, which then creates fight or flight. Right? And what can create fear more than,

you believe you are being attacked? You believe that your very existence is. the subject of another's ire. And this is-- this is happen--. And so your-- your point, I agree, was the-- the algorithms around social media are--. are designed to-- to make--. JON STEWART: It fosters. KAMALA HARRIS: --feel something. But it's designed to make people feel something--. JON STEWART: Right, right. KAMALA HARRIS: --not just think, but feel something. And one of the most primitive, to your point,

feelings that we have, that cause-- that translates. into action, right? Because that is the-- that is the point. That is the point. What-- what feeling translates into action? JON STEWART: And by the way, in-- in political terms, both sides are quite adept at weaponizing. those feelings and creating you know, he is a--. Trump is an existential threat to this, Kamala is an existential threat to this. And it does create that. I don't know that politics has never not done that.

I think generally, that's the idea, to portray your opponent. But social media certainly amplifies it to an extent. that most people's brains have not yet. figured out a way to filter. Would that be fair? KAMALA HARRIS: That is part of what, you know, as we say, is the-- that allows for the clicks, right? There's this whole, what do they call it? The attention capital, right? And-- and so if you wanna market your product, if you want people to stay on your site, whether you are an influencer or a corporation,

you want people to keep--. to feel something continuously. And-- and again, that's about tapping into people's-- you. know, their--. their deepest feelings. They call it the attention economy. Right? JON STEWART: And it weaponizes and incentivize it. So-- but I want to get back to-- because I. think what you said about trust, for me, is the crux of this issue. So much of what the postmortem for this election.

was, and I think in the book as well, A, time, you know, you expressing a desire for more time, and other things. that had to do with the lying that Trump did, the unorthodox methods of campaigning that he did. The elephant in the room was the record of the Democrats. Democrats, I don't know, have reconciled. with what may be the primary factor, at least in my mind,

which is a dissatisfaction amongst the people. that government was being responsive to the needs. of the people that it purports to represent. It was a-- a level of dissatisfaction. with that, that-- and you got to it a little bit. with-- you know, I maybe would have. reversed a couple of things. But I wonder, is-- is competence. the antidote to fascism?

KAMALA HARRIS: That's interesting. JON STEWART: You know, are the Democrats. reconciling with the dissatisfaction. that people perceive with government's performance rating. as it relates to their lives? KAMALA HARRIS: So I agree with you. that one of the biggest problems that we have right. now, and to your point, gets back to the trust issue, is, do the people believe that government is. actually meeting their needs?

Do the people believe that government is even. responsive to their fears and their dreams, even if it falls--. even if it falls short, right? JON STEWART: And the Democrats are the party that believe. And so they have a special responsibility here. They're the party that believes government. has a role to play in improving the conditions of their lives. The Republicans are selling a product they don't believe in. KAMALA HARRIS: Right. JON STEWART: But Democrats aren't.

So how does that square? KAMALA HARRIS: We need to do better. I mean, this is-- [LAUGHTER]. JON STEWART: I guess-- KAMALA HARRIS: But we do. Well, we do. I mean, we need to--. And it gets back to, again, you know, we--. dealing with the highest-priority issues. and addressing them. Now, Democrats do address this. And we can-- we can only get so far without the support. of-- of the willing and reasonable on the other side, right, to get some of these things passed.

But you look at, for example, the battle. that's happening right now in terms of the shutdown. Democrats are standing firm. And I applaud the Democrats in DC for standing firm on saying, we're not gonna compromise on the access. to affordable health care for the American people. So it is about standing firm on our values and principles. And then to your point, we gotta execute on it. and actually deliver. And-- and we're gonna have to do a better job because we are.

dealing with a reality which is that, look, in '24, one. third of the voters voted for him, one third voted for us, and one third didn't vote. And I think a big part of our focus. needs to be on that one third that didn't vote. And why didn't they vote? That's part of why I'm going around. and actually just sitting down and-- and letting people talk. Why didn't they vote? And I think a--. a undercurrent there is because I. don't believe that when I participate,

I get anything out of it. JON STEWART: And is that-- you know, let's-- you. brought up the shutdown. I think that's a great example. So Democrats are in a position now where. they are shutting things down so that subsidies for the ACA. can be extended because insurance premiums are--. are driving it. KAMALA HARRIS: And will skyrocket. JON STEWART: Will skyrocket. KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah. JON STEWART: But to the point of the Democrats approach, I guess what I'm driving at is, are the reforms that Democrats.

are talking about not enough to-- are they basically. tinkering at the edges of a system that is inherently. corrupt and not delivering, as opposed. to rethinking that system so that it delivers more directly? So let's talk about the ACA. KAMALA HARRIS: Mm-hmm. JON STEWART: Basically, it's a conservative fix to a health.

care system that is an outlier in the civilized--. in the civilized world. KAMALA HARRIS: Right. Right. JON STEWART: It gives people a coupon that allows them, maybe, entrance into this circus that is our--. our health system. So now Democrats are fighting to keep. the cost of that coupon--. KAMALA HARRIS: Right. JON STEWART: --slightly less. KAMALA HARRIS: Mm-hmm. JON STEWART: So are you now trapped. in a program that ultimately wasn't the fix that we wanted.

it to be, to a system that inherently won't function well. because of externalities in a straight, capitalist, supply-and-demand way? Does that make sense? KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah, I think so. [LAUGHTER]. JON STEWART: As I was talking, I was like, does it make sense? I'm not sure. I just made sense. KAMALA HARRIS: Well, what makes sense is that we still have. work to do to make America's health system deliver for all.

the people, and not be a function of how much money you. have in your back pocket. Right? And Democrats do come from that place, of believing that health. care should be a right, and not just a privilege of those. who can afford it. So how do you get there? Well, part of how you get there immediately on this issue. of where we are with the shutdown. is to hold firm, as they are doing. Part of it has to be to continue to reform the system. The Affordable Care Act was a--. a significant reform for its time.

But there is more work to be done, which includes, for example, the affordability of prescription medication. We pushed for a $35 cap on insulin, which had a huge impact on so many people. We wanted to do it, not-- we did it for seniors. We wanted to do it for everyone. We couldn't get the support of Republicans in Congress. Right? JON STEWART: But again, so it speaks to incremental change. I guess my point is--. KAMALA HARRIS: Which is never satisfying. JON STEWART: That's right. KAMALA HARRIS: It's never satisfying to say, we've got to be incremental.

And-- and I'm not advocating incrementalism, but until we win back majorities. in the Senate and the House and the White--. take the White House, that may just be where we are. And it's not where we should be. And it should not satisfy us, that we. have-- we have accomplished incremental change. We should be completely pissed off about that. [THEME MUSIC]. JON STEWART: Every day, the loudest, the most inflammatory.

takes dominate our attention. And-- and the bigger picture gets lost. It's all just noise and no light. Ground News puts all sides of the story in one place. so you can see the context. They provide the light. It starts conversations beyond the noise. They aggregate and organize information just. to help readers make their own decisions. You can see how many news outlets have reported. on this story, whether it's under reported, over reported,

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[THEME MUSIC]. JON STEWART: Do you think that the Democratic establishment. would agree with that? KAMALA HARRIS: I don't know who the establishment. is at this point. JON STEWART: Right. Oh, God. That's a whole different problem, isn't it? KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah, isn't it? JON STEWART: Wouldn't you be considered. as the flag bearer for the Democratic run for presidency? I would assume that you're at least in that--. in the conversation as the establishment leader.

of-- of the Democratic Party. I would say you're probably the most well known. And, you know, probably Bernie is. the establishment leader of kind of the progressive wing. of that Party. But, you know, I would imagine that your leadership. in that area would be significant. KAMALA HARRIS: Yes, I agree. And part of the work that we have. to do for the Democratic Party, going forward, is really come to terms with, what are we fighting for? And not just what we're fighting against.

I think part of the problem with where we are now--. call it establishment or something else, whatever. label we want to put on it--. is-- my fear is that we cannot be a party that is so--. So almost myopically focused on the guy that's currently. in the White House that we are not paying attention to one, how we got here, which is that this is about a pattern that. was decades in the making, but two, understanding that where.

we are right now, there is a whole apparatus around support. for this guy and what he's doing. And it is part of an agenda that--. I mean, they-- they published it in-- with Project 2025. JON STEWART: Right. KAMALA HARRIS: That thing didn't come out of thin air. It's a product of a lot of folks, including Heritage Foundation and-- and the. Federalist Society. And so part of how Democrats should be thinking. about leadership and getting through this moment.

is, yes, fighting what's wrong, doing. like what we're doing to fight against redistricting. But also, we've gotta understand that we cannot just. be focused on Donald Trump. We need to not only be against something, but also, we need to be understanding of how we got. here, and that it's a bigger apparatus, and not just the one guy. But the second point that is equally important, which we're not emphasizing, is what we stand for. Right? And so not just fighting-- it's about anti-Trump, anti-Trump,

but it is about health care. It is about affordable housing. It is about what we need to do around child care. because, you know, people gotta know. what you stand for so that they're clear about what. they're fighting for. JON STEWART: And that's-- you know, the issue, sometimes that I have with the Democratic Party is, there's certainly a high-minded kind of rhetoric around what. they stand for because I've heard that, you know, health is a right. KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah. JON STEWART: And everyone deserves a chance.

And it's-- it's generally framed as a moral argument. And so the rhetoric is somewhat audacious, you know, locked into that-- that sense of purpose and being. and what we should be. But the governance is generally, as we. talked about, more timid. It's the audacity of hope and the timidity. of what the Republicans will allow us to do. And I think what's frustrating for--. and I can only speak for myself on this--.

is the dance that we end up doing. KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah. JON STEWART: Cause I look at health as, is it a right? I don't know. But it's certainly a commodity. And it's one that the market has failed on. And if government isn't, at its purpose, there to help with outcomes that the market fails on--. KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah, absolutely right. I agree with you. I totally agree with you. I totally agree with you on that, which is, we are--. we are so mired in process, especially people who have been.

in the system for a while, that we are--. we are almost blind or we place a secondary importance. on the progress piece--. JON STEWART: Right. KAMALA HARRIS: --because we get mired in the process piece. Look, here's part of how I think about this moment. Things may get worse before they. get better, under this guy. OK? And we, at the end of this, are gonna be looking. at a whole lot of debris. And they are-- they are breaking things.

And there is a moment, then of how we should be thinking. about this, a moment for which we. should be also thinking about where the opportunity will be. And part of the opportunity, I believe, will be in transforming some of these systems that were broken. before, that were failing us before, and not--. and that we cannot afford to be nostalgic about. trying to recreate something that.

actually wasn't even working-- JON STEWART: Right. KAMALA HARRIS: --before this guy got there. And that's where there's gonna have. to be a moment of clarity around honest conversations. about the failures of the system, with an acknowledgment, also of the importance and the strength of those systems, like a-- that the fact that government should maintain. its principal responsibilities around public health, public. education, and public safety. But on all three counts, one could argue, yeah,

kinda good job, but kinda not. JON STEWART: Mm-hmm. KAMALA HARRIS: So let's also--. and this is how-- part of how I've been thinking. is that we've gotta also have as part of our capacity. to leapfrog beyond this moment and think about when we get. back some leverage around the House, the Senate and the White. House, how are we going to transform systems. to make them better, with an acknowledgment of what.

wasn't working? JON STEWART: So in the reflection of that, you. know, having--. having been a part of the system, not so much as a prosecutor and a district. attorney and attorney general, but as a senator--. KAMALA HARRIS: Yep. JON STEWART: --as a vice president--. KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah. JON STEWART: --as a candidate for president--. KAMALA HARRIS: Mm-hmm. JON STEWART: --in all those different roles-- so you--. you were in those roles for, I think a good decade, I would say, probably more, right? KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah, sure, about a decade. Yeah. JON STEWART: The hundred and seven days.

wasn't maybe enough time for you to consider. that being in that crucible. But certainly, your experience in that past decade. and in the year since the election, with a little bit more time to reflect, what is it, fundamentally, about the system. that you think we've gotten wrong? KAMALA HARRIS: I think what we've--. fundamentally, what we've gotten wrong. is we have mired progress in processes that. are outdated and are not--.

JON STEWART: A bureaucratic system? KAMALA HARRIS: But a-- yes. And so, yes, and we can label it the bureaucracy. But more specifically, we have not. grounded our measure of effectiveness based on metrics. We don't-- we don't do-- we-- we think if we're just working. hard and we're moving and that wheel is moving, then all is good instead of, you know, frankly, adopting an approach more aligned with, I think, what--. the private sector, how, you know, it thinks in terms of asking, ROI, what is.

the return on the investment? JON STEWART: Right. KAMALA HARRIS: What are the metrics? Giving ourselves timelines and--. and deadlines to actually implement. a good plan but also--. and this may sound contradictory--. giving ourselves enough room to actually come up. with a good idea that can work, so not. rewarding a bunch of grand gestures. that actually are meaningless in terms of the ability. for implementation. JON STEWART: Right. KAMALA HARRIS: You understand my point, right?

JON STEWART: Yeah. KAMALA HARRIS: Like, not--. I don't think any good public policy ends. with an exclamation point. It just-- I--. JON STEWART: Jeb! [LAUGHTER]. KAMALA HARRIS: --but also then, putting-- giving ourselves. and holding ourselves accountable for speed. around implementation. JON STEWART: So talk me through rural broadband. Rural broadband, we had a ton of money that was earmarked. for it through the government. It's certainly a very worthwhile project.

It's bringing areas that don't have accessibility. to the information systems that they will. need to progress economically, and all those different things. The government comes up with, during Biden. administration, a rural broadband investment plan. Billions of dollars are spent. No rural broadband is delivered. How do you change that program? Because I think the fundamental thing I'm getting at here is, taxpayers don't feel like they get any value--.

KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah. JON STEWART: --that government has divorced money from value. And that problem, fundamentally has to be fixed. KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah. JON STEWART: So rural broadband being the specific example--. KAMALA HARRIS: I think it's a a great example. JON STEWART: --how do you redo that? KAMALA HARRIS: Well, part of it is, one, a critical examina--. part of it is this. JON STEWART: Mm-hmm. KAMALA HARRIS: When you're coming up with the good idea, at the very same time that you're thinking. about the good idea, there should be an equal amount.

of attention being given to, how's the thing gonna. be implemented? Instead of everyone sitting around clinking their glasses, oh, success, success because we got the thing passed, right? In terms of whether it's a bill or whatever it is, that executive order, whatever it that. is necessary to actually proclaim the idea. JON STEWART: But is it in the desi-- so you got an idea. We need to get rural broadband out. to areas that don't have it. So is it the committees that design the bill?

Is it the lobbyists that influence the bill? KAMALA HARRIS: I think it's-- it's everyone. JON STEWART: It's the whole system is not working directly? KAMALA HARRIS: Well, it's not as focused on implementation. Right? So if-- if you're focused on it--. this is where we're gonna get very micro, but I'm good with--. JON STEWART: Get it, baby. Yeah! KAMALA HARRIS: So let's think about, OK, so we have. a plan for rural broadband. But it's gonna have to go through all. these administrative processes once the plan has. been agreed on.

It's-- this is the-- this is part of the challenge, frankly, of a democracy. But we need to do better. We need more efficiency in our democracy. because here's how democracy works. You come up with the idea and the plan, and then everyone says, OK, plan has been made. Now let's debate the plan. [LAUGHS]. Right? And so what ends up happening is, we start then challenging. the implementation of the plan around the bureaucracy, around agencies, and how long it takes.

for them to do their review--. JON STEWART: And there are 90-day periods and 120-day. periods and on and on. KAMALA HARRIS: And it needs to be shortened. And it can be shortened. And here's the other piece of this that I think is gonna be, maybe controversial, but here you go. AI can help us with a lot of that. For example, reviewing-- reviewing permits, there's-- it literally is about looking at numbers and figuring.

out, what are the patterns to figure out, is this thing possible? So there is a piece of this that is about government. adopting technology, not around making policy decisions, but certainly about assisting us with this kind of the--. the part of the process that's about just. checking the numbers, checking the patterns. So there is that piece of it. JON STEWART: In terms of where the need is? Or what-- what patterns of--. KAMALA HARRIS: In terms of the patterns. that exist around, if you input this many dollars.

and we expect this output, is it--. does that math actually work? It's about math. It's not about policy. It's literally about math. Permitting, ask anybody who's trying to get a permit. It's about math. The rules are already set around, this is the number of things you can have. This is the size. This is the width, all of these things. But permitting to build new housing takes forever--. JON STEWART: Right. KAMALA HARRIS: --because a bunch of people.

have to OK all these forms. JON STEWART: Isn't it in some ways, though, that the Democrats are certainly. more enamored of, you know, if you're gonna fix one. problem that--. that fix also has to address every other problem. In other words, if you're gonna put in rural broadband. or you're gonna put in housing, it also has to fix climate, it also has to fix environment. It also has to fix fair employment, you know, all of those things together. You know, there are lobbyists on the business side.

that insert things into laws that advantage them. KAMALA HARRIS: Well, that is true. That is absolutely true. JON STEWART: But there are certainly. things on the Democratic side that are inserted. that disadvantage efficiency. KAMALA HARRIS: I don't--. here's what I would say about this. We cannot ever overlook impact, OK. And that's part of what-- what would be the impact. on a rural community?

What would be the impact on children? What would be the impact on the environment? We should always ask those questions. Those are smart questions to ask. But we do need to also just address efficiency. OK, I'll give you an example of something, when I was vice president, I was focused on, the issue. of maternal mortality. And when I started looking at the details of it, I realized that states had the ability to expand Medicaid. coverage for postpartum care, and that all.

of the states except three had not expanded it from 2 months. to 12 months. And I then, basically sha--. issued a-- a challenge and, you know, was kind of, you know, shaming people, like, hey, why aren't you doing it? By the time I left as vice president, 47 states had done it. And it was just a matter of just, like, hey, you can do this thing.

Why haven't you done it? It will-- it will improve the quality of life and. life itself. These kinds of things are also part of how I think of--. how leaders have to think about increasing efficiencies. in the system, which is about creative thought. as opposed to well, it's never been done before. Not many people are doing it. There must be a reason they're not doing it. Let's just let it be. JON STEWART: Right. KAMALA HARRIS: We have to challenge the system. So that is about an ethos.

JON STEWART: How much of a tear down is this process? You know, now, to bring it to the East Wing, how much of a-- of a demo--. KAMALA HARRIS: Huh. JON STEWART: --in your mind, needs to be done? After experiencing the frustrations of-- of some. of this, in terms of wanting to get things done, how much of a demo project would you take to that process? Do you watch how Trump--. forget about what he's doing, the way he's doing it. Is there a part of you that thinks there are lessons. to be learned from that?

KAMALA HARRIS: I believe it's important we not conflate. disruption with destruction. JON STEWART: Mm-hmm. KAMALA HARRIS: And I--. I agree that disruption has a very important role to play, which is basically, as far as I define it, it's as much as anything about challenging the assumptions, challenging the status quo, all right? I can tell you from my lived experience as a public servant, challenging the status quo is brutal. You know, there is an assumption. that status quo is static, that it is just-- it is there.

Let me tell you something. You start challenging status quo, you will find it is quite dynamic. And it will fight against change every step of the way. I know because I have tried and I have--. I've had successes, but I also have the bruises to show it. And so listen, disruption is important, but destruction for the sake of some grand gesture, look what I can do quickly, overnight, and just get rid of a thing without any plan for actually,

what's it gonna--. why? And what is it gonna actually do to improve people's lives? And not to mention, I mean, are you fucking kidding me? This guy wants to create a ballroom for his rich friends. while completely turning a blind eye to the fact. that-- that babies are gonna starve when the SNAP benefits. end in just hours from now? Come on. So what-- I'm not gonna be distracted by, oh, does the guy have a big fucking hammer?

What about those babies? JON STEWART: Right. And I guess the point is, if--. if you're-- and I feel your-- obviously, your anger on it. How do we convince the Democrats that the system needs. to be disrupted enough so that a person that's. gonna build a ballroom to the disadvantage of people. on SNAP--. and we're conflating. It's obviously not the same money, but you're looking at, you know, obviously the--.

the vision of it. KAMALA HARRIS: But Jon, let's talk about $20 billion. going to Argentina. JON STEWART: To Argentina, right. KAMALA HARRIS: And it costs $8 billion. to keep SNAP going for poor children. JON STEWART: Right. KAMALA HARRIS: Come on. And taxpayer dollars, by the way. JON STEWART: Right. When I think about, like, your campaign, right, have-- have we lost sight. that the old rules don't apply? You've got a great thing in there I think David Plouffe. said to you at some point. He said, you gotta nail four things. You gotta nail the rollout. You gotta nail your debate.

You gotta nail your convention speech. And you gotta nail--. I think there was one other thing, might have been your VP or-- KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah. JON STEWART: So-- but by all measures, you nailed every one of those. You just did. That convention speech, the debate, the rollout, the enthusiasm, you. literally changed the dynamic in people's minds. so that they--. felt that surge of possibility and excitement and joy. You nailed all of those status-quo conventional--.

KAMALA HARRIS: Mm-hmm. JON STEWART: --mileposts that they. would put out for a candidate to be successful. And it wasn't. And does-- is that consultant, status quo, establishment complex also part of-- when you talk about. the status quo fighting back--. KAMALA HARRIS: Mm-hmm. JON STEWART: --it's not just coming from outside the house. It's coming from inside the house. And-- and aren't we ready for the kind of disruption that.

re-imagines this so that we don't find ourselves. in this situation again? Because it's so hard to get any sense of people taking. responsibility for that. KAMALA HARRIS: There are real shortcomings and flaws. in how we're doing politics right now. and how we're running campaigns. I give you that. I-- when we look at 2024, at least when.

we look at those hundred and seven days, I think we have to distinguish that. between what was leading up to those hundred and seven days. Right? I do believe one of the biggest factors that was at play. in the hundred and seven days, we. just didn't have enough time. We didn't have enough time. JON STEWART: Or was it too much time? I mean, if you had done the election after 60 days, I think you win, honestly. There was a-- there seemed like a stagnation point.

And then if you look at the lines, it doesn't look like--. what would have changed? KAMALA HARRIS: Well--. JON STEWART: Yeah. KAMALA HARRIS: But there's so many variables that. went into the outcome of that race. because you can also look at where you started. to see an infusion of resources going. into mis and disinformation. I talk about, for example, the Elon Musk factor in the book. You can look at that there were certain inflection points that. had an impact on the race. And to your point, it was, as David Plouffe said,

it was those-- those traditional inflection points, and there were others. So I don't want to reduce what we need to do, going forward, to any one factor around what we could have done better, what. I could have done better in those hundred and seven days, what was happening before. I think there are a multitude of factors that all need to be. addressed, including, again, in particular, the prevalence of mis and disinformation. and our need to do better around data. collection and analysis.

JON STEWART: How do you feel about--. so if I-- and boy, this is gonna be a really broad sort. of sentiment-- but, you know, when you took over. and the way that the crowds were responding, and that sense of possibility and that. hope, and there was this real feeling of hey, man, the momentum has shifted, we're in this game again, and all that. But as the campaign moved on, misinformation, disinformation and all those things which existed--.

KAMALA HARRIS: Mm-hmm. JON STEWART: --did it mean that you were then--. that the shift went from the emotion of the change. to once again, the defending of the status quo, that the real kind of foundational problem. is, once it moved into you having to defend. this kind of status quo that people were dissatisfied with, would more time have changed that if that's. the fundamentals?

KAMALA HARRIS: So I don't want to relitigate the campaign--. JON STEWART: Sure. KAMALA HARRIS: --per se, but I will. say that part of what our challenge was, was we needed. to-- you know, like, people in marketing. will say that people need to hear things. about three times before they've. actually-- it-- it settles in. JON STEWART: Mm-hmm. KAMALA HARRIS: And for example, our policy around Medicare. covering home health care, we know, and the data has shown.

us, it was incredibly popular with a lot. of people, regardless of how they've registered to vote. But we needed more time for more people to hear it. We needed more time for people to hear the point. that I was making about price gouging, and that we were gonna go after, for example, price gouging. We were gonna go after corporate landlords who. have been buying large amounts of property.

and jacking up rents. And it just required more time. But again, there were a multitude. of factors that contributed to the outcome. of the-- of the election. And I think all of them have to be taken into account. JON STEWART: And the difficulty of that with-- when. you talked about earlier--. the trust factor feels eroded between people. and their government. So even when you present certain things, if the trust isn't there, that's probably a more.

difficult sell at that point. KAMALA HARRIS: Well, right because for example, on that, you can have someone who says, Kamala, I agree with you, and I love that plan, and I believe that you--. you understand it. I mean, I-- look, my Medicare covering home health care. was born out of my personal experience, taking care of my mother when she was dying of cancer. But there is that, and then to your point on the trust. of government and systems, that person saying, so I.

believe this is all genuine. I know it is, but can it be implemented? Right? Can it actually happen? When will it happen in a way that impacts me? And that gets back, again, to this issue that we. have to address, and it is--. it's gonna take some real deep work-- which is around. restoring trust in these systems and in government. to actually do what we say it can do and will do. And that's work. JON STEWART: Did your feelings of affection and loyalty.

to the president affect your ability. to make that case as maybe-- you know, as robustly as--. as you wanted to make it for fear. that it-- it would be seen as upsetting. to him or any of those? Or did that not factor in? KAMALA HARRIS: No, I mean, you know, I actually write about it extensively. in the book about my feelings for the president.

I-- I care about him deeply. And I did not want to pile on with all the criticism. that he was facing. I didn't think it was necessary, I--. for me to-- to weigh on already what was so much. And I-- and I do realize, also in reflection, that I--. I did not fully understand how big of an issue.

it was for some people, for me to distinguish myself from him. I felt that the distinction between he and I. was pretty clear. And-- and that was--. I think that was something that was a real issue. And-- But, you know, I--. knowing what I-- I knew now, I would have, you know, probably approached it a bit differently. JON STEWART: And I don't mean that in the personal sense of--. KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah. JON STEWART: --not ready.

I meant it more in the sense of the policies that he wanted. to implement or the way that they were implemented. or the governance obstacles more than the. competence conversation. KAMALA HARRIS: Oh, I'm not talking about competence. Yeah, no, I'm not talking about competence at all. No, I believe he was fully competent to serve. JON STEWART: Do you really? KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah, I do. JON STEWART: That surprises me, actually. KAMALA HARRIS: No, I-- I do. But there's a distinction to be made. between running for president and being president.

JON STEWART: What's the distinction? KAMALA HARRIS: Well, being a candidate for President. of the United States is about being in a marathon. at a sprinter's pace, having tomatoes thrown. at you every step you take. JON STEWART: That sounds lovely. KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah, it's--. it's more than a notion. JON STEWART: Get involved in public service, ladies and gentlemen. KAMALA HARRIS: And to be the seated president, the sitting president, while doing that, it's a lot. It's a lot. JON STEWART: Yeah, it's--. I think it's a hard case to make for people that he didn't.

have the stamina to run, but he had the stamina. to govern cause I think most people view the presidency. as a marathon runner to sprint with tomatoes. being thrown at you in terms of-- of governance. So I think that-- drawing that distinction. And again, I recognize the incredibly difficult place. you are in with that, with personal relationships. and-- you know, I've been surprised at how much. people talk about loyalty. And it's funny.

In the book, you know, it creeps in every now and again. cause it'll be like, I love Joe, I'm loyal to Joe, he's the best. But you know, he gave that 11-minute speech. And it wasn't until 10 minutes in that. he said anything about me. Like, it's hard, I guess. You're still people. It's hard to get the personal feelings of rejection or upset. or loyalty out of this. KAMALA HARRIS: Well, that's why I. put it in the book, 'cause I--. as people have commented, I am very candid in the book.

And it was a complicated relationship. And yeah, he did, he disappointed me. Yes, he disappointed me. JON STEWART: And it was clear, I think they felt like you. had disappointed them. Like, that-- that was so wild about it. KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah. JON STEWART: It's tough. But do you-- do you have that relationship still? KAMALA HARRIS: Yes, we do. In fact, it was my birthday last week. And he called for my birthday. We had a really great conversation. And we plan on seeing each other.

I mean, like I said, it's complicated. I-- I care a great deal about Joe Biden. And I know he cares about me. And that's not gonna change. JON STEWART: Right. And maybe some distance helps kind. of be reparative in that way? KAMALA HARRIS: Listen, relationships are complicated. [LAUGHTER]. JON STEWART: That's why I don't have them. KAMALA HARRIS: Well-- JON STEWART: That's why--. KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah, well, so let. me explain something to you, Jon, about relationships. [LAUGHS]. JON STEWART: My advice is this, lone wolf, baby. It's lone wolf.

It's introversion. And you keep to yourself. These people are-- what about with Pete Buttigieg? You know, I imagine he had some feelings about, you know, the vice presidential selection. KAMALA HARRIS: I have nothing but praise for Pete. JON STEWART: Yeah. Has-- have you guys talked about that part of it? KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah, I called him. And listen, I-- just listen. I put out facts in the book and with, as much as anything,

an intention to create a permission. structure for these difficult conversations. to happen among all of us. And I do believe that the conversations have been. happening, probably in some small way, because I put it in the book. JON STEWART: No, no, no, I understand. Do you think-- because it's the kind of candor. that I appreciate, very much so. KAMALA HARRIS: Mm-hmm, Mm-hmm. JON STEWART: And I think it's the kind of candor. that, if conducted more publicly, could help improve the trust that people have,

cause I think it's things that people feel like, that. must be going on, that must be the conversation. behind the scenes. KAMALA HARRIS: Right. JON STEWART: And if they were to see that more publicly, maybe they would feel like, oh, all right, this person--. this-- this feels more real to me. KAMALA HARRIS: And-- and hopefully, then asking of ourselves and as a voter, would it have mattered to me?

Would it have made a difference? Cause that's part of what I--. I hope to invite, which is a level of introspection. on behalf of all of us. Right? I mean, Jon, for example, for example--. JON STEWART: Yeah, yeah. KAMALA HARRIS: --if I had made different choices. and the outcome were still the same. and I were doing this interview, would you have said, why did you do that? JON STEWART: No, it's a good question. I don't know. Why did you do that in terms of being more--. so candid, I guess.

KAMALA HARRIS: Making-- or making certain decisions. in the campaign, where there was, perhaps a risk. factor associated with it. JON STEWART: You know what? That's probably my prejudice, too, is then, I filter the things that I look at, that I would-- you know, I liken it to being a sports fan, you know, being the-- the armchair quarterback, like, what are you doing, calling a run? KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah. JON STEWART: I think I probably filter those decisions. through the prejudices I have about what's. wrong with the system.

And so I use that as evidence, you know, that I'm right, that here's why the system doesn't work. And-- and it's like, I guess you. can build your case from all kinds of different directions. KAMALA HARRIS: You know, one of the things that you're raising. that I think is very present, distrust. can quickly lead to cynicism. JON STEWART: Right.

KAMALA HARRIS: And that's part of what. we need to deal with, right? I mean, including, like, even some people--. not recently cause No Kings Day this last week. was such a success. But people have asked me, why do you think more people. aren't taking to the streets? People have asked me, you know, these kinds of questions. And part of the response has been that there are. a fair number of people that are like,

this system is just broken. It's never gonna work. It doesn't work. And why should I participate or have any expectation. of it being different? And, you know, a lot of people don't. want to have that awful experience. of being disappointed. And one way to avoid disappointment. is to not have an expectation of something that fails you, and therefore disappoints you. JON STEWART: That's-- that's interesting. KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah, the cynicism piece is something.

that I think is acquired from a learned experience. of-- of learning that something was not worthy of their trust. JON STEWART: Right. I think that's-- that's correct. I will say-- and boy, is this a narrow focus group--. my experience right now is, the level of thirst that people. have for an alternative for leadership.

is as high as I think I've ever experienced it. And-- and while cynicism is certainly, you know--. KAMALA HARRIS: Present. JON STEWART: --the exhaust-- the exhaust that. can come out of the manifest--. KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah. JON STEWART: --I also think the potential. for idealism and for change and for excitement--. and I would say--. when people say, why aren't more people in the street,

I would say cause they're not sure why they're there yet. Right now they're just there as sort of an amorphous, listen, we're a constitutional republic, you know, and a democracy, and-- and this feels like an alien skin graft. to our culture. KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah. JON STEWART: But I do think, as you move more. towards a national midterms or things like that, or if the opportunity being for a leader--. KAMALA HARRIS: Mm-hmm. JON STEWART: Hello, Madam Vice President--.

to-- to address with specificity that new way, forcefully, it's there. It's there to be taken, I guess is-- is my--. you spoke of it earlier. What an unbelievable opportunity. And if we really do want to be a big tent, you've gotta show, if Liz Cheney can be in the party, Mamdani can be in the party, too. KAMALA HARRIS: Oh, for sure. JON STEWART: And there's gotta be--. KAMALA HARRIS: Sure, of course. JON STEWART: --that-- that drive. KAMALA HARRIS: Of course. Of course.

JON STEWART: Is that the plan now for you, is-- like, cause right now they wanna know who the leader is. They wanna know what to follow. They wanna know what this all means. And I don't think they're getting it. KAMALA HARRIS: I think-- you know, I've--. I've started calling it our savior complex. And I think we shouldn't--. [LAUGHTER]. JON STEWART: Man, guilty as charged. KAMALA HARRIS: I know. Don't do it. JON STEWART: You are-- KAMALA HARRIS: Don't do it. JON STEWART: --dead right. KAMALA HARRIS: Don't do it. JON STEWART: It's hard, man. KAMALA HARRIS: Waiting for the Messiah. Don't do it.

We have so many stars in our Party. There are so many stars. And-- and let's not be afraid of them. You know, you talk about Mamdani. I mean, he's exciting, this group. of people who otherwise don't think. of themselves as being aligned or part. or even seen by the system. You just look at the range of what-- we have so many--. Jasmine Crockett, who I just talked to recently--. I mean, we have so many stars.

And-- and if we're gonna spend full time. in these circular conversations about, you know, who is the one? And we're overlooking, I mean, people like Greg Kassar. I don't know if you're following him. I mean, there are so many interesting people. And I think it's--. it's a time to understand everyone has a role to play. Everyone has a role to play. And there are a lot of good players, a lot of strong players on the field,

like back to your sports analogy. JON STEWART: A role to play. But what's-- what's the larger--. is it-- are--. right now, is the Democratic Party a party of influencers? Or is it a national movement toward something coherent? KAMALA HARRIS: It needs to be both. It needs to be both. JON STEWART: Which-- which would. you place her in the-- in the Kamala. Harris hierarchy of needs? KAMALA HARRIS: Well, one works with the other, right?

Because having a sense of direction and vision. and then having the influencers who, with their capacity. to-- you know, to hold a mic in a way that people listen, is gonna be very important. JON STEWART: Mm-hmm. KAMALA HARRIS: It's gonna be very important. And it is very important. JON STEWART: Do you feel like you've re-energized from this? Do you feel this past year has been--. what's been the importance of this past year for you? KAMALA HARRIS: You know, it was rough at the beginning.

When we went back home after the inauguration, you know, the election happened, and January 6, and I'd fulfilled my constitutional responsibility. and duty--. JON STEWART: Mm-hmm. KAMALA HARRIS: Then we had--. JON STEWART: You're talking about the January--. not the January 6--. the January 6 where you did it-- without the fighting, the other Jan--. KAMALA HARRIS: Not the January 6 when I was sitting. in the DNC, when there was a live bomb outside of it, and I was vice president-elect, not that January--.

JON STEWART: You're talking about the other January 6. KAMALA HARRIS: I'm talking about the other January 6. JON STEWART: Somehow went off fine. That all went fine. KAMALA HARRIS: When I, as vice president of the United States, performed my constitutional duties--. JON STEWART: Yes, that's right. KAMALA HARRIS: --to certify--. JON STEWART: How was--. KAMALA HARRIS: --free and fair election--. JON STEWART: That's right. KAMALA HARRIS: Exactly, right, which, for some reason, was. big news because we didn't--. JON STEWART: We peacefully transferred. power again We're back, baby! KAMALA HARRIS: Look at us, right? Look at what we've done. JON STEWART: Yeah, yeah. KAMALA HARRIS: But I just--. I think that we--.

we've been through a lot. You know, for me, for my husband, Doug, our family, you know, we had-- we had a period of--. of transitioning and-- and not just transitioning. It was so much more than that-- of really. just starting to reflect. I mean, that's part of why I wrote the book, just--. I did not allow myself any reflection for those hundred. and seven days. It was about I need to get it done, I need to get it done. Every day, I-- can I do more? Can I do more?

And then after that, after the inauguration, going back home. was about literally and figuratively unpacking. I mean, literal boxes and just unpacking it all. and reflecting and processing. JON STEWART: And even the scene of, you. know, as you were doing that, the fires. and, like, you didn't even know if you were--. what you were coming home to. KAMALA HARRIS: We were evacuated from our house. until January 19, the day before the inauguration,

when we had to leave. JON STEWART: Right. KAMALA HARRIS: So anyway, look, a lot of people. have been through a lot. And-- and for us, it-- there was a period of just kind. of trying to find the normal. And-- and then I started writing this book. And now I'm on this tour, and I just--. I love traveling our country and-- and just, you. know, creating a space, hopefully. for people to come together and feel a sense of community.

You know, some people have been telling me. that the book actually kind of gave them some closure. around that whole period. JON STEWART: Right. KAMALA HARRIS: And so let's kind of get beyond it. and get back out there, and not a time to be passive. or put the covers over your head, saying, you know, wake me up when it's over, there's no time. You know? There's no time for that. JON STEWART: It's gonna be over, I think. KAMALA HARRIS: Well, like I said, I think it may get worse before it gets better, to be candid. But we have to be active.

JON STEWART: I really appreciate you taking the time. You know, reading the book and seeing sort of--. I mean it. Really, I hope people understand. the dichotomy of that moment, when you found out, I'm--. I'm doing this, the explosion of enthusiasm, of walking into rooms now of 20,000, 30,000. people and they're chanting--. KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah. JON STEWART: --and to go, in a third of a year, from that to it's over, go back, I think--. I hope people can appreciate the emotional whiplash.

that I'm sure must have been, you know, a large part of that journey. KAMALA HARRIS: Yeah. You are a sensitive guy, Jon Stewart. JON STEWART: What? No! KAMALA HARRIS: You are-- [LAUGHS]. JON STEWART: Not at all! KAMALA HARRIS: You understand feelings! JON STEWART: Can I tell you something, though? And this is gonna sound awful. There's a couple times in the book where you're like, and I told myself, I'm not gonna cry. And I'm like, there's no way that I could have done that.

Like, I remember, I went on the show after my dog died, and tens seconds into it, I was like, you don't understand! It was Dipper! He's the best! And so the idea that you could like, have the emotional fortitude to just be like, I'm not crying, like, kudos. KAMALA HARRIS: Thank you. JON STEWART: Cause I--. I couldn't pull that off. Madam Vice President, thank you for spending some time with us. KAMALA HARRIS: It's good to be with you. Thank you for your voice, too, Jon.

Thank you. JON STEWART: Really appreciate it. Take care. KAMALA HARRIS: Take care. Bye. [THEME MUSIC]. JON STEWART: Interesting. [LAUGHTER]. WOMAN: Yes. BRITTANY: That's it. JON STEWART: Sometimes frustrating. WOMAN: Uh-huh. I know I could not get on board with the catharsis of the book. She said someone found it cathartic to read. I felt like it was a countdown to, like, the end times. It's just like, oh--. BRITTANY: It's DEFCON 5 to DEFCON 1.

You knew the ending. JON STEWART: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's hard for me. I always get the sense, when I'm talking to these folks, that they know more and feel more. about what's right than what they are able to let on. And the minute you get them beyond the confines of where. they think they might make a misstep, things are communicated much more clearly. And I wish that that was the starting point.

Does that resonate with you guys in any way? BRITTANY: I think for politicians, saying nothing is better than saying something wrong. And that isn't to say that she said nothing, but it's just a very, very cautious approach. But there were, like, some moments I don't quite. understand, like the thing you brought up, Jon, about the difference between campaigning and governing, and at least since, what? 2008? It's been the same, the constant--. JON STEWART: It's a constant--. WOMAN: --campaign for everyone. JON STEWART: I should have mentioned that, you know,

cause it was-- you know, she talked about Biden. could have governed but not campaigned. And I was like--. WOMAN: It's the same, though. JON STEWART: And part of the problem with that is, part of being president is being energetic enough. to relentlessly fight back against the narratives. that come out against whatever policies you want to do, to be--. unfortunately, you've gotta be the person. that is designing, implementing, and also selling. And I just don't think it's possible.

WOMAN: Yeah, when she said that, I--. actually, this is something that I feel. like Brittany can relate to. I was like, it's like the difference between running. and being the president is like, Taylor Swift preparing. for the Eras Tour versus Taylor Swift being on the Eras Tour. And honestly, both sound exhausting. So-- both are key to being Taylor Swift. JON STEWART: Brittany, do you wanna--. do you wanna answer to that? WOMAN: Imagine attending four times, guys. JON STEWART: Right. That's exhausting in and of itself. No. What were you gonna say, Brittany? BRITTANY: I just thought the emotion, when you guys were. talking about Biden, the emotion. that you could feel in her tone change was so.

authentic and real, and that--. just hearing her talk about it, like, you can tell that's a heavy for her. JON STEWART: Oh, there's moments. in the book where I'm like, she want-- she wants to be like, this motherfucker. Like, there was real anger there, and there's real hurt. But there's also-- she talks about. they spent 3 and 1/2 years throwing her under the bus--. BRITTANY: Yeah. JON STEWART: --and not supporting her. So I can imagine real grievance. BRITTANY: And you can feel-- like, I think. she's being honest about that, especially.

in this conversation, which was-- really stood out to me. JON STEWART: Yeah. Brittany, what do we got for this week? WOMAN: Alrighty, Jon. BRITTANY: First up, do you think. they are trying to make CBS News a more respectable. version of Fox News? JON STEWART: I don't know that you can make something more. respectable than Fox News when you're. talking about the flagship station for American news. They report. We're the ones who decide. And I think we've decided that it's--.

no idea. Like, that-- I can truly plead-- like, every indicator--. every indication is they are using. some sort of magnetic field to pull it. more clearly to the right because I guess their diagnosis. is, it's too far to the left. I would not suggest that the problem with CBS News is that. it's so left wing, to be quite--. to be quite honest with you, and certainly not the problem. with the 6:30 broadcast, which is--.

you know, I think they should start with the graphics first. [LAUGHTER]. But-- or they should just go the David Muir route, which is, tonight, breaking news, America on fire. We have the video--. on fire, underwater, in attack. It's like a constant--. ABC News is like, whatever-- whatever the fuck they got. on video that day, that's exploded, that is what's going to be on there. Like, CBS, especially with Dickerson.

and-- and Maurice DuBois, is more like, how was your day, John? It was good. There were some things that happened. I wanted to talk to you. It's mostly about education. We're gonna go out to that now, but I'm not sure. Where in the studio is that? Oh, why is that screen there? OK. And then you just flip over to ABC, and he's just like, hunger! Fire! Kill them! WOMAN: I used to write those, Jon. JON STEWART: Oh, really? WOMAN: Yeah. JON STEWART: No way! WOMAN: Watching you perform them, though, is really warming my heart.

JON STEWART: Oh, thank you so much. Is that a directive? Is that something that is explicit? WOMAN: You wanna catch people's attention away. from their making dinner and such. JON STEWART: Well, it works. WOMAN: Yeah, you were watching. [LAUGHTER]. JON STEWART: I'm fucking up my dinner left and right! All right, what else we got? BRITTANY: Jon, when President Trump's term ends--. JON STEWART: What? Wait, are we breaking news? It's going to end? BRITTANY: (SINGING) Dun, dun, dun. JON STEWART: All right.

BRITTANY: How much of the White House. do you think he will take back to Mar-a-Lago as souvenirs? JON STEWART: So here's what I think ultimately will happen. When his term is done, he will just end up still living there. And more than likely, the Trump organization. will rent out Mar-a-Lago for whatever the new president is. And they'll have to stay down there. because nobody puts in a 90,000 square foot. ballroom for the next guy. Nobody-- nobody takes the time to do-- nobody--.

unless you're flipping houses, unless he's Ellen and Portia, and just flipping houses and--. whoever the next person is. But I can't imagine, you know, the-- the idea that. they're gonna build a 90,000 square foot ballroom for two. state dinners, and then he's gonna be like, all right, see ya. WOMAN: I'm also a renter, and I'm not allowed. to drill holes into the wall. So it feels like--. [LAUGHTER]. --feels like building a ballroom, that's out of the question. BRITTANY: I didn't listen.

I drilled the holes, just to be clear. JON STEWART: What? How dare you. WOMAN: Don't look too closely behind me. JON STEWART: I wonder what this will. do, though, to his security deposit and if--. when they come in and go, like, what's this, right here? And you're like, that was the East Wing. Oh, yeah. No, that's not-- we--. I told you about that. It's another thing. The one thing he hasn't done though, is tried to sneak pets. in. That's the other-- you know. WOMAN: Yeah. JON STEWART: That's where I would get in trouble. Like, you get in there, and people would be. like, why are there cows here? You'd be like, mm, I don't know.

WOMAN: I don't know anything about that. JON STEWART: I think they lived here. BRITTANY: Beats me. JON STEWART: So excellent job, as always, you kids, nicely done. We all read the book. We all talked about the book. It was like our little book club. We had a little book club. BRITTANY: Oh. WOMAN: Yeah, let's do it more. I liked it. BRITTANY: Same time next month. JON STEWART: On 107 Days. And it was doable, not like that Jill Lepore book. that nearly--. that Jill Lepore book nearly broke me. But thank you guys. Lead producer Lauren Walker, producer Brittany.

Mehmedovic, producer Gillian Spear, video editor and engineer. Rob Vitolo, Audio editor and engineer Nicole Boyce. And our executive producer is Chris McShane Caity Gray. Very well done, guys. Thanks so much. See you next time. [UPBEAT MUSIC]. JON STEWART: The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart. is a Comedy Central podcast that's produced by Paramount. Audio and Busboy productions.