Trump, Vance, and The Republican Anti-Worker Playbook | The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart

fast forward after Samuel Alita was. appointed to the Supreme Court he really. had a bug up his ass to really go he's. got a few of them up there I believe. that's right he's got he's got quite a. [Music]. few hey everybody uh welcome once again. to the weekly show my name is John. Stewart uh once again joined by our. topnotch alist Elite I'm going through. the furus right now Britney mic and. Lauren Walker producer team.

extraordinaire it is a big I I can't. even remember the last time we talked I. don't know I think Eisenhower was. president at that time things are moving. quickly uh kamla Harris is now a freight. train did you see any of the footage of. the rally in Atlanta that she held. yeah [ __ ] and it's the one thing I think. that would I almost think more than any. policy or any uh discrepancy on. economics or anything else the thing.

that would bother Donald Trump the most. is a giant Arena filled with. enthusiastic. supporters having a party fun yeah right. yeah I almost think he'd be like what. popularity is my thing like I think he. doesn't even give a [ __ ] about the. election anymore he just wants to be. like my crowd was bigger comm's getting. the good music yes is come on I mean. they're pulling up people I don't even. know what they Megan these St and quo's.

coming on stage and Trump's backstage. with you know Kid Rock and half of Big. and. Rich just like w what are we what what. are we doing now but yeah it's it's it's. a totally it's a totally different thing. now how did the people feel about last. week everybody everybody's good the the. viewers the listeners one thing that did. happen this week John that we wanted to. ask you about was you were back down in. DC on Friday uh with some K2 veteran. stuff yes what's going on well it's so.

the PCT act for those who don't know. that the PCT act changed for veterans. not just of global war on terror but. Vietnam and all that it changed the. presumptions for toxic exposures for a. lot of veter and it it it does a great. job and they really are working hard to. implement it and and they've done a lot. of great work uh the Biden. Administration secretary mcdunn at the. VA they really have worked hard uh there. are loopholes within it one particular. one is this base K2 which was kind of. the tip of the Spear of the global war.

on terror uh in 2001 it was this old. Soviet base in usbekistan that had. housed uh chemical weapons uh there was. talk that it was a traffic station for. yellow cake smuggling like there's all. kinds of [ __ ] there so when the troops. first landed uh they found radiation. levels in the soil 44,000 times higher. than what it should be they found a. chemical contamination site.

uh they found you know pias and dioxin. it's all the general [ __ ] that's like. this toxic goo but K2 was a unicorn of. toxicity it was a super funds super fun. site and almost immediately I mean. people were nauseous vomiting like that. started right away and then the health. problems you know snowballed and. persisted a lot of them were helped by. pack act but there are a few with these. what are considered multi symptom weird.

neurological uh to categorize much. harder to categorize we went down to DC. because the VA secretary has the. statutory authority to with the stroke. of a pen say along with ped act which. only covers you know certain Cancers and. certain pulmonary conditions we will. presume your exposure to there's a. radiation statute within VA and there is. also because of Gulf War syndrome a.

multi- symptom uh statute that they. could also enact and it would. acknowledge that they had been exposed. to those things I think the holdup is. DoD doesn't want to acknowledge that. they were exposed to yellow cake DOD. keeps wanting to say that it's depleted. uranium or they don't want to. acknowledge multisymptom and so I think. that's where the rub is that was the. original rub too right like not wanting. to recognize by the way always the rub.

like DOD like I'm not sure DOD has. acknowledged agent orange yet like DOD. is always like what there was not it was. a soda fountain they were exposed to. vanilla extract it was nothing uh so all. that stuff is you know look those guys. are uh the the K2 group stronghold. Foundation uh you know Mark Jackson has. been on top of this uh doing that Matt. idling like these guys have been working. on it for years we've been trying to get. them in to get this resolved we thought.

we had it we went down there we called. back down to DC for a meeting with the. secretary and what he said was uh We've. looked into it I do have the. authority but I haven't decided yet. whether or not I'm going to use it I. think what the VA secretary is saying. well there may be more data that's. coming along and we're like it's 23. years like don't make this. group victims of the lack of data that. you will never have yeahh so you can.

imagine everybody walked out of the. meeting pretty crestfallen and and now. it's you know you you you can't give up. so we we keep on I I'm trying to get. that group into there is a White House. veterans task force trying to get them. in with with that group and and there's. this fella Nick Nichols who was there. and who did the testing and it was his. whistleblower testimony I think a year. and a half ago that reopened all this.

wow we've been lucky there been uh the. AP has been on it uh a reporter named. Katherine herriage uh who did like four. years of reporting at CBS and she's been. remarkable in terms of dedication to it. but also with getting the reports from. DOD I mean these foyer reports from. DOD show that Department of Defense knew. that there was enriched uranium there if. you look at the surveillance photos.

which Katherine had gotten a hold of it. says there's a giant sign that says. danger radiation and it was they had to. rope it off danger chemical weapons and. they had to rope it off the problem was. they had Earth movers that were moving. all of that soil into BMS that they were. all sleeping on so they've all been. exposed to radon coming up through uh. the ground and all kinds of other [ __ ]. and it's I mean they have the pictures. but yet more data is coming John and.

they're looking for data like a lot of. these folks unfortunately have already. died and and their families are left. without uh the DIC benefits that come. through VA so this it it it needs to get. done it it needs to get done any support. that we can give to the K2 folks uh you. know call your I don't know who to call. Congress people White House VA secretary. whatever you need to do let's let's get. it done but thank you for asking about. that because it's of course.

yeah it's uh it's it's been wild to. watch uh but we're getting there um but. meanwhile we've got two great guests. that are going to talk about this sort. of pivot to economic populism that. somehow the Republicans have taken on. even though they forgot to tell uh their. judges and their think tanks and their. legislators and everybody else uh so. let's let's get to. them and so uh we welcome our guests for. this discussion Steven Greenhouse labor. and workplace reporter at the new New. York Times for 19 years senior fellow at.

the century Foundation author of the. book beaten down worked up the past. president and future of American labor. and Heather Cox Richardson author of. democracy Awakening notes on the state. of America guys thank you first of all. so much uh for joining us there's so. much to talk about uh the Republicans. nominated as their vice president a. populist hero he has he has a. beard and a mama so clearly uh he is For.

the Working Man and he has said this is. uh I'm I'm going to read you a quick. quote we're done ladies and gentlemen. catering to Wall Street will commit to. the working man that was the Republicans. at their convention I want to ask you. first Stephen and then we'll go to. Heather uh have the Republicans told. their judges or legislator or think. tanks of this new switch to economic. populism because it doesn't doesn't seem. that the policies and Court decisions.

that have been rendered these past I'm. going to go with 50 years have gone. along with the populist route so Stephen. what's what are your thoughts first. great to be here John so Donald Trump. and JD Vance talk a good ball game they. they talk the talk but they don't walk. the walk the Republican party doesn't. walk the walk the judges they've. appointed to the Supreme Court and other. courts you know are quite anti-worker. very anti-union and there's a recent uh. uh study saying that the three Trump.

appointed to the Supreme Court are the. most Pro business uh justices over the. last century of 57 judges surveyed and. when we say Pro business we would assume. the counterfactual which is anti-labor. yes anti-labor you know there was this. crazy decision where Amazon workers have. to wait 15 20 25 minutes at the end of. their shift to have their bags checked. to see whether they've taken anything. improperly and the Supreme Court rule. that they're not to be paid for that 15.

20 25 minutes that's not part of their. work day which I think is a you know. just one of many anti-worker decisions. that comes out of supreme court so they. have at Amazon you got that half hour. cool off period where they're scanning. you like at the airport like a TSA. person but you're not paid for that you. just have to wait till they that's some. of the warehouses where the contractor. subc subcontractors play that game you. know Donald Trump you know says I'm for. the nation's forgotten men and women but. he didn't raise a finger to increase the.

minimum wage he says he's all for coal. miners but his administration actually. weakened you know standards for safety. for he you know he said I'm I'm fighting. hard for coal miners yet the number of. mining jobs dropped by 25% when he was. president he wants to kill Obamacare. which would be a major major drag you. know for many Working Families would. throw them off of health coverage it. would it would uh raise raise prices the. rhetoric is not matching the reality. Heather. what's your feeling about this.

disconnect well I would love to talk. about what populism actually means but. one of the things that I would love to. hear Stephen talk about is the links. between you know those those mom and pop. organizations in Silicon Valley and JD. Vance because that uh seems to me to be. flying largely under the radar screen in. a lot of places and it's very hard to. call yourself a populist when your major. backer is well two major backers are. both billionaires right Heather you're. very kind to ask me so uh JD Vance the.

great friend of the workers now we're on. Heather's podcast what the hell happened. here all of a sudden you know you know. honestly I gotta be honest it's so much. more interesting to hear what other. people have to say than it is to hear. what I have no Heather no go ahead. Stephen so he he wrote this supposedly. popular book populist book also popular. hillbilly elery where he really he just. say like craps on you know the working. class saying the reason you haven't gone. to y Law School like me the reason. you're not billionaires like my friend. Peter teal is that you're lazy you're.

shiftless and it's it's it's really kind. of ugly in terms of showing so little. solidarity for the people he grew up. with so as you said Heather uh van says. I'm a friend of workers yet he's backed. by billionaires Peter teal one of the. founders of PayPal now all these. cryptocurrency billionaires are backing. Vance you know Donald Trump says he's a. friend of The Working Man and yes he's. doing everything he can to kiss the. behind of Elon Musk so musk will. contribute 45 million a month supposedly.

over $100 million well he says that's. not true uh yeah yeah but I get it but. look in politics everybody's got their. billionaires it's it's not like the. Republicans are the only one that are. backed by billionaires I think I'm more. interested in this idea of well what are. the policies what are the things you. know everybody is talking about project. 2025 and what that's going to mean to. the country and what are the things that. the Republicans might Institute I want. to talk about project 1980 1980 to 1984. we had a labor.

economy Reagan came in and. deregulated uh Wall Street and many of. the other uh corporate entities and we. have since shifted to an investment. economy the labor economy is now an. investment economy and people that. invested people that are in finance. people that are in equities did really. well over these last 50 years but labor. has been left behind so I I want to ask. Heather that switch over of the. Republican Party party from sort of more.

labor with the Democrats to a more. investment economy and Trump has vowed. to continue that he wants to cut. corporate tax rates to 15% from 20% what. direction are we going in here Heather. well there's a couple of really. interesting uh different questions in. all this and one of them is of course. yes it was very deliberate under the. Reagan Administration to switch away. from the economy that had propped up the. ability of people who were starting out. or her ordinary Americans to um to you. know work hard and to prosper and have a.

decent standard of living and to switch. from that to the idea that if you put. all the money at the top of the economy. what you would get is better little. trickle down trickle down they call the. supply side economics and one of the. things that is really dramatic about. that is of course it transferred about. 50 to 53 trillion dollar from the bottom. 90% to the top about one tenth of 1% so. it was pretty clear that that was never. really intended to help individuals but. that's actually something a little. different I think. than both labor which is what Steven.

does so well and populism which is. something a little bit different in the. sense that if you have. Labor having a seat at the table what. you have is everybody having a stake in. the political economy that is going to. shape the country but what populism does. I think and and of course I'm a. specialist only in the United States but. in the United States populism seems to. me to be the moment when a number of. people recognize usually for economic. reasons that they are not being served.

in any way by the by the leading uh. political classes and when that happens. they begin to talk about what they would. like to see in American society what I. think is so interesting when you bring. up the 1980s is that if you have this. disaffected group of people how do you. know which way they're going to jump. that is in the 1890s they jumped in part. to anti-Semitism but also in part to. economic reform and I think one of the. things that's really important about the.

1980s and the period since then is the. control of the rhetoric and the language. around which. politicians uh steer that populist. disaffection and what the Republicans. have done so enormously effectively is. to say hey you might have a problem but. it's not us rich guys it's the you know. the minority taking your job. undocumented immigrants coming in here. taking your job that's really. fascinating so you're suggesting that.

the difficulty here and and Stephen will. get to you in terms of separating. populism from economic populism is that. it seems like the lever right of. populism is oftentimes nationalism this. fervor of all right we're going to draw. the wagons in America first you know you. had that in the 1920s as well where you. look for. scapegoats that allow maybe the ruling. class to avoid any kind of Suspicion. find a scapegoat at the lower end to the. table put all the problems on them and.

still get away with it so Stephen are. are we making a mistake when we talk. about populism to not focus on really. economic populism and and how do we. separate what is best for workers. because even when you think about. unionizing you also have to recognize. unions can become corrupt too and. sometimes they can be anti-work so how. how do we draw those distinctions. Stephen great question John so Heather. put very well what populism is and you. know generally what do American workers.

want what do American families want you. know they want stability in their lives. you know if they get laid off God forbid. they want a good safety net they want to. be able to afford housing they want to. be able to send their kids to college. they want work family balance so they're. not working 80 hours a week and that you. know one of the crazy things about the. United States is we are the only you. know wealthy country in the world that. doesn't have laws guaranteeing every. worker pay family and and medical leave. so if some people if they give birth you.

know they don't get 6 weeks or 10 weeks. of of paid leave so Trump says I'm a. great populist I'm a friend of the. worker I hear your grievances but he. doesn't deliver the things that will. really help workers or help American. families he says you know blame the. immigrants you know he bashes the. Chinese he bashes you know elitists like. like like uh you Heather and me and it. makes people feel good like oh I I like. that I could blame all my problems on on.

those bad guys the Chinese the. immigrants but it's really doing nothing. to help workers and and it ticks me off. that you know Trump poses as a friend of. workers I remember you know when he was. running for president in in 2016 you he. would tell order workers in in Michigan. in Ohio don't worry if I'm elected no. plants will close on my watch right. right and then you know this huge. General Motors plant closed in in lown. in 2019 when he was president on his.

watch and what does he do he doesn't. blame General Motors he blames the. United order workers union and Dave. Green the president of the local who. fought his behind off to try to save the. plant so you know part of that shows. that Trump. is is very anti-union he you know time. and again he like kicks unions in the. teeth well not just kicks unions I mean. he lowers uh the amount of money that. you need to earn to get overtime so that. workers have a tough time getting. overtime he strips the National Labor.

Relations Board I mean there's so many. different things that he's done but it's. clearly a very effective message to the. working class I think to Heather's point. where you combine this kind of. nationalist Zeal this protectionist Zeal. and and I want to ask you Heather. because when you think about so when he. goes into tariff mode and protection. mode and uh Mexico is stealing our uh. factories and China is stealing our and. all these different things but they.

never. address the idea of right to work states. so this idea that you know Mexico is to. the United States as Texas is to New. York New York has a lot more worker. Protections in line it's a lot easier to. form unions it has a lot more of those. uh safety nets in place for people why. isn't right to work seen as anti-worker. because if you look at the data I think. if you work the same job in a right to.

work state you earn three to three and a. half percent less than a worker would in. a state that's not right to work well. and the right to work states are really. took off in the 1950s and the 1960s but. that has a much longer history in the. country of the idea that by God you can. do it all on your own you know you don't. you any kind of government intervention. in the way that you interact with your. workplace is socialism that actually. comes in the United States from the. 1870s not from after the bull revolution. in 1917 really why now why why so early.

in in the 18 I would have thought that. would be a 1917 you know post Revolution. in Russia yeah everybody thinks that but. you know what it's really cool actually. what happens is that after the Civil War. when the United States under the. Republicans for the first time had. Federal taxation so taxes are very much. in the news in a way that they had not. been before you also get uh first a. government that is protecting black. rights in the American South and then. the right of black men to vote in the.

American South so this is pre-. reconstruction Jim Crow middle of. reconstruction in 1868 you get the 14th. Amendment saying you can't mess with. people based on race and in 1870 you get. the 15th Amendment saying black men can. vote and you also in 1870 get the. establishment of the Department of. Justice which goes after the KKK it goes. after people who are attacking their. black neighbors based on issues of race. so in 1871 white Southerners uh White un. unreconstructed Southerners there are a.

number of white Southerners who are like. we just want to get rid of the rich guys. this is cool with us but the. unreconstructed ones say hey we never. had a problem with race that was never. an issue oh really same people same. people by the way they say this was. never a problem what we don't want is. these poor uneducated people voting. because the poor uneducated black men. will vote for leaders and at this point. they weren't really concerned about. black people sitting in legislatures. that's going to come by the early 1870s.

they're going to use their political. power to get leaders elected who are. going to vote for things like roads and. schools and hospitals and the only way. you can pay for that oh my God is. through taxes and who has all the money. in the American South it's white guys. and you can see this thread through. American history think of the way that. the Republicans turned against Brown. versus Board of Education and Eisenhower. sending troops into Little Rock they. said they didn't say um there was plenty. of racist stuff too but there their. arguments in places like the um National.

Review were this is your tax dollars. that are that are there trying to get. these undeserving black people into. these schools so they're always tying it. into the money that you're going to pay. back into the government this is so. interesting is going to go to projects. that are going to undercut you your. hard-earned money it's the exact same. argument they're making right now your. hard-earned money is actually going to. the social safety net for undocumented. uh people and homeless and people that.

that haven't earned it Stephen does that. is is there a vulnerability there for. Democrats because what do the Democrats. say we got to tax the billionaires we. got to make people pay their fair share. but if you can't connect the tax dollars. that are being raised to value for. taxpayers right so if you do have a. bunch of workingclass people that are. paying into the tax system but they're. not realizing to your point earlier. Stephen about the things that they would. need in their lives Child Care Health.

Care Elder Care uh those types of things. if they don't see the value coming back. from their. dollars then what good is raising taxes. on corporations what good is raising. taxes on billionaires if you don't think. the return on that is going to be any. good and is that a place where the the. Democrats have to to shore up their. position John I think that you know if. you look at surveys you know majority of. Republicans want to increase taxes on.

corporations the rich and and they agree. with the Democrats on that they feel. that you know the ultra Rich the 1%. these huge corporations that pay no. income taxes are getting away with. murder and they say it's unfair and they. and you know Americans always feel. they're paying too too much in taxes so. they figured let the rich let let the. corporations pay far more and maybe I. can pay less but you know when Trump and. the and the Republicans say we want to. have tax cuts and we're going to help. you you know the the tax cuts that were.

enacted by by Trump you know they gave. the average American household less than. $500 yet the top 1% get a $660,000 tax. cut as if they needed a you know needed. all that money and exploded the deficit. at the same time and exploded the. deficit by over a trillion dollars and. the top 111th of 1% got. $175,000 and I guess those people making. 100 million a year really needed that. extra. 175,000 and and getting to write to work. for second John when Joe Biden says you. know the middle class Built America and. unions built a middle class that is. correct so the national right to work.

was an effort by right-wing ideologues. and corporations to weaken unions and. right to work means that if you are in a. unionized workplace you could opt out of. paying one penny you don't have to pay a. cent to the union that's but you still. get the benefits of whatever is. collectively bargained yeah that's. winning the raises for you and one. health coverage for you right and Donald. Trump when he was running for president. in 2016 said if Congress passes a. national right to work I will happily. sign it and you know many worker.

Advocates say it's only fair that people. who receive the benefits of unions pay. something to it he say like all for one. and one for all you shouldn't be. receiving Labor's benefits and being a. free writer and and talking about. changes right-wing changes in the. Supreme Court John back in 1977 there. was a case where some teachers in. Detroit Michigan said we don't want to. pay any dues to our Union you know. because it violates our first amendment. rights. uh and We Want to Be Free Riders we want.

to get union benefits without paying and. the Supreme Court voted unanimously with. many conservative members unanimously. against them ously saying union members. public sector union members could be. required to pay union dues fast forward. after Samuel Alita was appointed to the. Supreme Court he really had a bug up his. ass to really go he's got a few of them. up there I believe he's got he got quite. a few yeah vigorously after Union so. there was a a Supreme Court decision in. 2017. 5 to4 ruling that a a public sector work.

in California could opt out of paying. dued to his Union that created right to. work for all government employees Across. the Nation and and sometimes I think. it's crazy that you know a five4 vote. can overturn a N9 nothing vote and and. that shows you know how conservative the. Supreme Court has and since Alo has. arrived on the court has grown far more. conservative far more anti-union far. more Pro business but it kind of you. know Heather we're sort of approach in. it a different ways because it does seem.

that the parties Define economic. populism in different ways does the left. view pro-worker uh policies differently. than the right does and are they. sincerely. believing that as long as big. corporations do well that will trickle. down even though there doesn't appear to. be any conceivable evidence that that. does and the example I'll give you is. this and and then you can go in 2008 the. housing crisis we saved the economy.

through trickle down we gave billions. back to the banks to make them whole. again people got foreclosed on our. economy tanked we went into a huge. recession in the pandemic we chose. demand side stimulus we gave everybody. money we recovered better than any other. country did the economy Snapback doesn't. it show that demand side stimulus is at. the very least more efficient. well this is one of the reasons I think. that there has been such Fury uh among.

the right about President Joe Biden. because he has proved that in fact the. system that we had in place between 1933. and 1981 works I mean one of the things. that the radical W has been able to do. is rise on the idea that in fact the the. the way you stimulated the economy was. to cut taxes and that that's what they. always go back to is cutting taxes and. we know it doesn't work you know it. transfers money upward and not downward. but and people want Services people. demand oh yeah certain things people. actually like the government that that.

Biden has put in place and I think Tim. Waltz the governor of Minnesota has been. really articulate about this in the last. couple of weeks on you know his round of. the talk shows but um I think there's a. really important piece here that is. different than what you two are talking. about and which I agree with which is. the way the parties are talking about. economic populism which tends to focus. in the Democratic side on economics and. on the Republican side on culture so. there is two different things going on. there but the thing that fascinates me.

is why do people follow certain parties. when they talk about populism that is. not so much what are the the leaders. talking about but what do the followers. accept and this I think is Central to a. much larger conversation about the. United States because of course for. right to work laws although they really. take off in the 1950s they tap into the. idea that if in fact you want uh wage. protections and hour protections and all. the sorts of things that really were. being decimated in States like Arizona.

um they T they tapped into this longer. history of Americans wanting to believe. that by God they were doing it all on. their own even though they never have. everybody needs roads for God's sakes. yes and schools and hospitals right but. but one of the things that is I think so. interesting about the moment we're in is. that the three of us can sit here and. argue at Great length about different. economic programs and different. approaches of the different parties. based on either economics or in culture. but the people people who really it. seems to me hold the power when we talk.

about populism are the people who are. telling the stories about why those. people have been held back so the. Republicans have a story that says it's. the you know undocumented immigrant um. the people like me have a story that. says no no no no it's the rich guys but. if you look right now you're seeing the. rise of people like sha Fain of the UW. the president of the UAW who is talking. uh he is both incorporating the idea of. uh Christian if you will he talks about.

Christian values almost a social. Christian value and the need to protect. the ability of workers to have uh uh the. the kind of Economic Security that. Steve's talking about and also says wait. a minute we've skewed this entire system. so I think one of the things we're. seeing you asked where we were going is. we are definitely seeing the breaking. apart of the Republican project from. between 1980 until 2021 but we're also. seeing a new kind of language and it's. taken a while for people like Biden to.

get to the point where they're not just. saying hey we're going to help the. little guy but also saying and we're. going to tax those people at the very. top and you saw FDR do a similar shift. and you're seeing a lot of Americans I. think who were in the group of people. who were in trouble in the 1980s and. forward getting to find their own voices. in part thanks to the rise of the. internet and the ability to go around. The Gatekeepers that really managed to. highlight the Republic Republican story. about America for 40 years and to.

silence the populace story now you're. seeing the populace story and on the. oneand some people have become variantly. sexist and racist and that's the story. that they're clinging to and some people. are saying no we can rebuild this. country in a new exciting way now that. speaks to Stephen in terms of rebuilding. it in a new exciting way so what are the. ways that that labor can in some ways. reinvent itself not just through iions. unions being an important tent pole of.

it but in terms of getting a seat at the. table now we talked earlier about the. tech billionaires that are funding you. know a lot of this Republican Resurgence. one thing that Tech has done really well. is in general they've given their. workers shares is that a model that can. be taken on through these other. corporations yes and no John you it's. good Stephen I mean so on one hand yes. it's good when you know workers you know. get a share of corporate profits and. that you know all the profits don't go.

to to management on the other hand the. no is which not enough because you know. workers don't have a voice it's so. important over history in the United. States and elsewhere you know to assure. greater economic Justice for workers you. know not to be stepped on for workers to. have a voice at work and that's why you. know laws that you that encourage the. formation of unions that laws that uh. encourage colle bargaining have made. such a difference right and and uh you.

know Heather's the historian I'm not but. you know after World War II you know. American companies were going like Gang. Busters you know Europe was flat on its. back Japanese industry was flat on its. back and and United States seal and. General Motors and Ford C they were. doing amazingly well and workers you. know we didn't have a middle class yet. workers were really doing poorly and and. workers unionized and went on strike and. pressured the capitalists and said it. ain't fair you know you're making so. much money and we're struggling and.

we're the folks who make your profits. who make your your cars who make your. steel and they won these amazing. contracts that created the middle class. and unions now you know Sean Fain is. basically saying the same thing what. union leaders were saying in in you know. after World War II that we're not. getting a fair share companies are. making record profits the stock stock. markets at record levels productivity. has risen to record levels yet wages are. flat and and labor is really standing up. again more than it has in a long time.

and and Sean Fain you know LED this. historic Victory Strike last Fall by the. by the United order workers against GM. Ford and stantis which owns Chrysler. right and and labor saying not only do. we need a seat at the table not only do. War workers need a seat at the table. whether it's Starbucks or Amazon or. Trader Joe's or apple but this old idea. that all we deserve is a 2% a year raise. is BS you know inflation was 10% we. deserve our are fair sure and we don't. have the social safety net I mean you.

have people that you know we have a A. working class economy of people that. still have to Avail themselves of the. social safety net it's a part of the. story that is never talked about I mean. these are pendulum swings right you have. the robber barons and then you have uh. uh the New Deal that creates the safety. net and then you have this post World. War II boom and now you've got this. Reagan Era deregulation and all these. things and it sort of swings back and. forth uh in in terms of workers and and. then it more pro pro business what.

brings it back to the how does the. pendulum swing back now Heather well can. I just add to what Stephen said and that. is in the 1950s and the 1960s one of the. things that really helped workers was. the recognition that you know people in. the United States were very concerned. about the rise both of fascism and of. Communism and of the idea of countries. being taken over by religious leaders. and so one of the things that you see. with the construction of a strong middle. class in the United States and the.

support of a strong middle class in. European countries and other countries. as well is an a determination to protect. democracy that they recognize that if. they don't do that if they don't give. workers something they're going to turn. in that case they really worried about. communism but there are plenty of people. who were also concerned about fascism. people like Eisenhower for example so so. it you know once you got the fall of the. Berlin wall and you got the collapse of. the Soviet Union um there was this sense. that you know you no longer had to worry. about that that as long as you spread.

capitalism you would also be spreading. democracy and of course where that's. ended us up is a place where. authoritarians are on the rise all over. the country and all over the world yes. I'm sorry I meant that all over the. world and the right is cozing up to I. mean to think that the right would be. admiring of Putin and Orban would be. crazy utterly unrecognizable to anybody. that or on the left I mean it's just. it's it's a bizarre and it makes me. think that maybe the fight now Around. The World Isn't capitalism versus.

communism or democracy versus. authoritarianism they found it to be. woke versus unwoke they've just found a. different axis by which to cleave. everybody and and maybe capitalism. requires that entrenched poor working. class to function the way they want it. to function and maybe that's the thing. we have to address well well certainly I. think unregulated capitalism does and. capitalism itself is another discussion. you know you got to love a historian. righted I'm going to split hairs on all. these words but but here's a big piece.

yeah that I think would love to hear. what Stephen has to say about this one. of the things that you're seeing in the. United States is the first generation of. American women who have had jobs. professional jobs outside the home we've. always worked outside the home but. professional jobs outside the home they. have good educations they have skills. many of them have money they also have. for the first time in our history 20 to. 30 years after their children have left. or they've gotten as far as they want to. in their careers to get in involved in. the public sphere uh at the same time.

that they're recognizing that their. daughters and granddaughters have fewer. rights than they did and I think that. throws a monkey wrench into the both. populism and also into how we will. reconstruct a future because I don't. think at least in the United States and. I I know other country is jumping to. mind I think that changes the entire way. we're going to be looking at the issues. of the American story for example or the. issue of who should have a say or the. issue of equal rights going forward and.

I think it's one of the things driving. the extraordinary fury on the American. right right now against things like. childless cat. ladies Stephen what what do you make of. that that idea that this generation of. women is is really uh as as Heather was. saying uh they were professional and now. they're seeing those gains slip. Heather's absolutely right and it is. terrible ter you worrisome terrifying. you know I'm in my early' 70s uh you're. in your early 70s yes I've got to start. your regimen whatever you're doing I I.

got to start juicing I don't know what's. happening to me I have children I have. grandchilden and and and I speak to. friends like they're horrified that you. know things are moving backwards for. their daughters and for their. granddaughters and and I think that's. one reason why women have become so. active in politics and so active you. know in in unions and that's one of the. reason there's so much enthusiasm about. you know CA Harris she's been leading. the fight. right you know one of the things that. that really gets me is I really have to.

wreck my brains to think of what exactly. did Trump do for workers I can like. think of one and a half things yes the. North American Free Trade Agreement you. know was way too friendly to. corporations and didn't do enough to. protect workers and people blame Bill. Clinton for all this blame the Democrats. it was negotiated by a republican you. know first President Bush you know Bill. Clinton wanted to be a good bipartisan. guy and he got it passed through the. Senate overwhelmingly it was Republicans. who who voted for it in congress not.

Democrats but the Democrats get all the. blame but you know um Trump the one. thing I will most Praise Him for is that. he renegotiated NAFTA so it's you know. uh much friendlier to to to unions much. friendlier to workers and the half a. thing where I say Trump has you know. Trump did absolutely nothing to raise. the the minimum wage I think he's he's. such a chicken because he's worried well. if I call for a higher minimum wage I'm. going to piss off my business supporters.

and if I oppose a higher minimum wage. then I'm going to so like he he's been. mum the great courageous Donald Trump is. just too scared to so but he has he was. campaigning in Nevada the other day. right and he said I no no taxes on tips. yeah no taxes on tips like where did. that come from he says he got it from. speaking to a waiter no I'm sure one of. his someone in his Brain Trust said this. would be a great way to win votes of the. tens of thousands of Hotel housekeepers. and waiters in in Nevada but of you I. say it's only half. half a pro-worker thing because so many.

you know waiters and housekeepers they. don't earn enough money to even pay. income taxes right and still have to. have a social safety net behind them. yeah so if Trump really wanted to them. to earn more money he should you know. support them unionizing and he should. raise the minimum wage but he's too Pro. corporate anti-worker to do that that's. not going to happen I will give them. credit though for this and Heather I. want to ask you about this globalization. and automation decimated I think the. American middle class the factory.

workers it it it really did have a. terribly corrosive effect on people's. ability to have stable manufacturing. jobs or stable you know and all the. support uh jobs that go along with those. sorts of things so the changes in. whether it was Amazon or factories being. able to go overseas and all those other. things was devastating and I don't think. the Democrats recognized the devastation. fast enough or with enough empathy. because they would always say things.

like we'll send you back to school and. you could be a a coder we'll teach you. how to be a coder and they'd be like. well I kind of dug what I what I was. doing and I don't think I want to be a. coder and and I think that was a real we. a weakness and one that they've had a. really tough time overcoming Heather. yeah I think that's right except I would. say that one of the things that always. jumps out to me you know I am from a. rural area I am from a place where there. are an awful lot of republic voters and. a lot of trump voters and you know we.

always do this thing where we examine. rural people like their zoo animals like. you know what's wrong with the rural. Americans and I'm telling you there's. nothing wrong with the rural Americans. except you can see the line between. those people who are uh trumpers and. those who are not trumpers because one. group watches the Fox News Channel and. one does not and the fact that the. Democrats felt that they were unable to. make the sorts of protections for the. the workers but also I mean it sounds. like we're just talking about unionized. workers and of course that's not at all. what we're talking about we're talking.

about people who have been left behind. all and the gig economy the gig econ. every all these workers are unprotected. which by the way is um much more. reflective of the way American history. has always been the idea that you have a. single job and it's going to carry you. through for your entire career is very. postor War II wow the Democrats I think. wanted to protect those people but they. seem to have this idea that they had to. go along at the at the at the top level. with with the sorts of um market-based. reforms or market-based legislation that.

was blanketing our media space and there. weren't the options to talk about other. ideas because those people didn't get. returned to office and they didn't get. time on the talk shows and so on and. that locking up I think of the public. conversation looks very much like the. locking up at the public conversation in. the 1880s and the 1890s when it was just. like you know Andre carnegi is the best. thing since sliced bread anybody who. stands against him is an anarchist right. and so that this mirror is the sort of.

Robber Baron era in your life oh yeah. wow yeah yeah yeah and that's in many. interesting ways but part of what has. been a problem for the Democrats is the. fact that if you didn't go along with. the market-based economy you know the. the idea that neoliberalism was going to. be the answer to everything you simply. got purged out of the lawmaking um the. lawmakers so that you didn't get to say. hey wait a minute here and you can see. in some universities there will be hold. over from the 1960s or the 1970s in the.

economics department and you know the. guy is sort of like back behind his desk. with long hair going that's not how the. world works and and every time something. goes wrong you can watch this they pull. them out and they're like hey look we. found one from the past just going to. tell us what but so I think that that. has limited options and again the. breakdown of Fox News because of the the. lawsuit against it the fact that Rush. limbo died in 2021 and didn't give those. talking points to everybody on the right.

and the rest of the media didn't follow. suit with those talking points I think. has opened up the ability for us to have. a larger conversation and then of course. with Biden and um Secretary of State. Anthony blinkin saying very upfront that. the loss of our supply chains to other. countries is a national security issue. the loss of our manufacturing to other. countries is a national security issue. you know the the fact that we've had a. very few people a very few corporations. being able to monopolize baby formula.

for example but ever so many other. things is a national security issue. that's made them able to resore. manufacturing and to reshore supply. chains which Buddha jedge has done. really really well and also to to launch. lawsuits against people like Amazon to. say you know the idea that as long as. prices are getting lower it's good for. the American people is not the case we. got to make sure it's good for workers. and good for National Security and good. for consumers as well so it seems like. there's a lot of things breaking apart.

right now and one of the things I'm. really interested in is trying to make. sure that the conversation that we. engage going forward is much fairer and. that doesn't have this sort of cookie. cutter smashed down onto it so that for. 40 years we're locked into something. conventional wisdom that pushes things. away that's that's an an excellent. summation so I I agree with everything. Heather said so one of the crazy things. is like jobs were leaving Ohio Michigan. was and Pennsylvania and heading to. China and Taiwan and and Bangladesh you.

know for years not just under Democratic. administrations but somehow the. Republicans are great at blaming the. Democrats for everything and and you're. right John that uh the Democrats most. notably Barack Obama was saying yeah. these jobs are disappearing but go to. college everyone should go to college. and then you know you live happily ever. after right and you know there are many. you know only one 1/3 40% of Americans. go to college and and a lot of. working-class families said I can't. afford to send my kids to college you.

know Barack Obama is really a LOF and I. think that was one of Obama's biggest. mistakes you know the Democrats did try. very hard to provide much more money for. retraining much more money for. unemployment insurance for people who. lost job to foreign trade and the. Republicans kept blocking it but the. Democrats get blamed for not doing. enough now as as Heather said Joe Biden. got the message you know he right these. infrastructure acts these the chips act. all. so like for people who aren't going to. college you he's emphasized.

manufacturing uh you know the the. infrastructure Act is going to create. hundreds of thousands of great. construction jobs uh many of them for. people who don't go to college plus he. he has really tried very hard to make it. easier for people to go to college. councelling student dead he wants. Community col community colleges to be. free he borrowed Bernie Sanders idea for. a while to make the first two years of. college free I mean Biden gets that. there isn't enough Economic Opportunity. for the typical American family well.

maybe this is the inflection point maybe. and I'll give you both a chance to sum. up but we'll end it there maybe the. inflection point is the recognition that. uh the the globalization and the ill. effects that it had on so many of these. workers must be addressed with a real. urgency and there has to be a great deal. of money and intention behind it to try. and rebuild the things that were. hollowed out during that time and. obviously it gives us a portent to what.

AI may offer the country but you know. and and how devastating that might be as. well but in in your guys mind is the. pendulum swinging back and and do both. of these parties offer anything positive. to labor and the working uh people in. the country at this point Heather I. don't think that the Republicans. dominated as they currently are by the. magas offer anything to anybody who is. not extraord arily Rich except those. undereducated Evangelical Christians who.

simply want to be able to impose their. Christian nationalism on the rest of us. who want the culture it's culture that's. only that's only about 6% of Americans. who actually want Christian nationalism. the Democrats right now under Biden and. soon to be under Harris I think have uh. recognized not only what you were. talking about with the offsh Shoring of. manufacturing for example but one of the. key parts that Biden went forward with. and has not really succeeded to the. degree he would like is the Shoring up. of the service economy and the service.

economy for child care Elder Care uh and. so on really again speaks to women being. involved in the economy as they always. have been but they've always done it on. their own hook and at their own Peril so. that I think is a reshaping of the. entire issue of populism and as I say. what really matters I think to me is. watching how those conversations take. shape and who gets to drive the. conversations to to say hey wait a. minute we really need a country that's. based on the good of everybody uh.

especially those people who are. hardworking and trying just to put food. on the table and get their kids have. their kids safe and educated rather than. saying you know we can turn it all over. to the Silicon Valley billionaires and. they will treat us Little People well. right they will design it and they'll. put us in a crisper and change the. genetic but you're right the economic. system cannot uh by its definition rely. on an entrenched underclass and trench. poverty Stephen uh for you what's the. what's the one hopeful thought that you.

hold in your head moving this forward. young people are much more concerned. about you know how hard it is for them. them to you rise up you know they're. told that they're the first generation. in in American uh history that might not. do as well as their parents a lot of. young people you know uh have taken to. the streets for the B2 movement for the. black lives matter movement and and the. uh so much of the energy in the union. movement to to raise wages right is is. younger people and I agree with Heather.

that when you look at the Republican. Party they're really not doing you know. anything to help workers like if you try. to pass a paid leave Bill which so many. which American Family Support 80% to 20%. overwhelmingly you know the billionaires. the corporations will block it they'll. say it's a horrible employer mandate. it's going to get in the way of of the. free market we can't have that we can't. raise the minimum wage that will gum up. the works for corporations which are. already make you know and just the. simple Act of if if we removed Health. Care from your job if we just gave that.

to people that would free up everybody. to be able to take more chances uh in. their lives corporations would no longer. be on the hook for I mean it's there's. so many different things that that we. could do but I appreciate you both uh. coming on and having the conversation. stepen Greenhouse labor and workplace. reporter at New York Times for 19 years. senior fellow at the century Foundation. author of the book beaten down worked up. the past present and future of American. labor and Heather Cox Richardson author. of democ Awakening notes on the state of. America really interesting stuff so I.

appreciate it thanks John thank you. thanks. guys I got to tell you guys something I. think there should be a historian in. every conver I can we use historians as. like mods as moderators just in every. conversation that occurs because there's. so much history that Echoes the current. state of affairs and and it gives you so. much context and so much knowledge into. it when Heather. started bringing up well in the 1870s.

you know before these movements and it. it goes back to Jim Crow South and the. way that uh economically nobody wanted. to Grant and then black people they. didn't want them to vote like it so. brings into. Focus how we get to this current moment. and how we can get out of it no. definitely I think that historians. really add to this and it does all come. back to slavery you know that's that's. what it has to be it all it all comes. back to to to slavery you're like oh.

right there was a group of people in the. country that got labor for free and that. was the default and so anything off of. that is going to be seen as a concession. uh and it just. informs everything moving forward and I. really feel like sometimes I wish I had. like a pocket historian like that's what. they should do a pocket door Kern's. Goodwin a pocket Heather Cox Richard.

like Siri and it just and whenever. you're talking about something it can be. like you know they used to say the same. thing about Andrew Carnegie they said he. couldn't be stopped he was the B you're. like who you're like the robber barons. and then they break that like just. adding context the news. organizations should have a pocket. historian at all times so they could. just a context Siri I'd pay for it. right along with factchecking maybe well. let's let's not get crazy okay sorry.

context and factchecking but it can be. done in real the if these historians can. do it in real time it can be done anyway. very very I thought it was very very. fascinating uh conversation there and. boy do they know their [ __ ] when Stephen. starts throwing out Supreme Court cases. and quoting the thing I was just like. I'm just going to go get a drink of. water this guy's killing he's killing it. the news keeps coming Fast and Furious. so that's that uh Britney the socials. are are going do you want to hear some. of the questions we've got yeah I'll.

pull up the first one um what do you got. this question is how do you keep your. composure when debating someone with. drastically different views on politics. it's an excellent question and I think. if you've watched me do that you would. see I don't I don't I don't keep my. composure uh I often lose my [ __ ] uh. which is why I make you know people. always say like you should get into. politics and I'm like uh I really think. that would be like I'd last like 20. minutes and then all of a sudden I'd be. like you're [ __ ] up you don't know.

what you're talking about shut up uh you. know it's it's so hard contrary to what. it may look like I'm not a huge fan of. conflict uh I think you guys know me. probably in a different context so you. would be like yeah I get that yeah uh so. when you're doing those things I find it. very discomforting I I don't I don't. care for it but but I do it because. uh I think I should suffer I think I've. earned that I think we've both seen you.

do. it is it is it uncomfortable for you. guys to watch um BR you've seen it a lot. you've seen me do it a lot I've seen. like I've personally hid behind poles as. it was happening cuz I'm like I don't. want to make contact to eye contact with. anybody I'm definitely like the Grimace. Emoji during some of the moments where I. know you're like dying inside but not. really showing it here's what's so. terrible too because Britney so in order. to book guess you know you've got to.

it's there's a process that is somewhat. of a sales job you know come on the show. it'll be great you'll have a robust. discussion but always friendly always. professional always doing that like with. Larry Summers and Larry Summers you know. he did a little research on me was like. in you know in in 2011 John Stewart. called me the devil incarnate is he. going to do that on the show and Britney. asked like I don't think so no probably. not he may call you that but ingest so.

Britney had to put me on the phone with. Larry Summers yeah before he came on the. show to allay his concerns and I. generally do the castanza in those. situations which is what is the opposite. of what you're supposed to do so he said. you know are those your feelings and I. was like yeah they are but you know I. don't mind having the conversation and I. I really disagree with you on almost. everything but but I'm certainly I'd be.

I'd be open to talking about it and he. was like okay that's all I wanted to. know and and then he was like great. let's do it yeah my favorite part is. you've had to do those calls a couple of. times throughout our time working. together and the best is when John calls. after and we'll be like I don't know if. I just helped or hurt the situation I. don't think they're coming but for Larry. Summers that conversation was. unfortunately very uncomfortable but but. I thought pretty pretty great yeah. I think a lot of people did well not. Apple.

but not not the people we were working. for but the other people who are not. they they didn't think it was uh. particularly great but uh but but that's. that's fantastic uh okay next question. yes how can I start performing stand-up. comedy if I have terrible social. anxiety oh I don't know. uh so I you know I don't know enough. about social anxiety to know if standup. comedy would uh trigger that because in.

truth standup is not that social like. I'm very introverted so one of the. reasons I like doing standup was that. it's one of the reasons I like. bartending I didn't have it's like you. can be out is but you're not actually. out you have a job to do and you can. focus on that and you don't really have. to talk to anybody other than taking. orders giving orders so it's not and. standup is oddly enough very similar. like Friday and Saturday night what are. you doing you going to that party you're.

doing those things I got to go do a gig. I got to work you're social with the. other Comics but you don't really have. much to do with the audience other than. in a performative way so I actually. think for social anxiety stand up's not. a terrible business to be in even though. it may seem like a paradox if that does. that make sense no I think totally I. think there's a difference between. having a one-on-one conversation with. someone and being amongst it or putting. on a show in a way and and you know it's.

a character even if it is you and a. performance yeah yeah and you're not. like like you okay you remember how like. at the show we would have parties yes. and remember how like you guys would go. yeah and you guys would drink and have a. great time yeah and then you guys would. be like John are you coming and I'd be. like sure but then I wouldn't. yeah sure that's social.

anxiety that's me but all all done but. go what tell people to keep going with. the social what are the socials what are. the things definitely we are Twitter at. weekly show pod Instagram and threads we. are weekly Show podcast Tik Tok we are. weekly Show podcast and the weekly show. with John Stewart on YouTube come on uh. as always thank you so much this has. been the weekly show thanks to lead. producer Lauren Walker producer Britney. mic video editor and engineer Rob veto.

who by the way is just kicking crazy as. like everything is so locked in when we. jump in same with audio editor and. engineer Nicole Boyce you guys are. killing it uh research and Associate. producer Jillian spear as always uh. arming me with the best information. known Dem man and our executive. producers Chris McShan and Katie gray. couldn't do it without all you guys so. thank you again and we will see you next. [Music]. week the weekly show with John Stewart. is a Comedy Central Podcast it's. produced by Paramount audio and bus Boy.

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