The First (And Perhaps Only) Harris / Trump Debate with Jon Stewart | The Weekly Show w/ Jon Stewart

JON STEWART: I actually created IVF. I will personally inseminate any woman. with sperm that wants it. That's how much I believe in IVF. [MUSIC PLAYING]. Hey, everybody. Welcome to The Weekly Show podcast with me, Jon Stewart. We are back. We are back with Brittany Mehmedovic, Lauren Walker, our erstwhile producers. We have been away for months. [LAUGHTER].

For years. When we left, I don't even know who was in the race. It was Donald Trump versus Michael Dukakis. And then things switched around. Now it's Donald Trump, Kamala Harris. We've only been gone for-- for two weeks. And now, we come back to the Earth-shaking debate, which as ABC told us, will change everything. [LAUGHS]. Nothing is the same. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: No. JON STEWART: It's raining dogs. Night is day.

Nothing is the same. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Our lives are changed forever. JON STEWART: I assume that you both watched. with-- with bated breath. I found myself really nervous, based. on just how consequential the last one was where two minutes. into it, I was like, oh. He's going to have to leave. He's-- he's not going to be able to to run for president. So I was happy to see it not necessarily be revelatory.

or answer a lot of questions, but at least bring us back to. a slightly more normal cycle. Even if that meant Donald Trump yelling. about people eating pets. LAUREN WALKER: Yeah. It's weird that that's normal. Like, that's where the bar is. JON STEWART: I think we've gotten to this point where. because there's so much coverage of everything, there is an expectation that everything is the Super Bowl. And I guess the debates are probably the closest thing. that you can have to that. But I do think it might be nice to get back to the idea.

that these political campaigns are grinding it out, convincing people that you've got policies that are going. to positively impact their lives, rather than a series of gala events. that will change everything and do that. Because I think that drama feels very manufactured. Where did you-- where did you watch the debate, Lauren? LAUREN WALKER: Oh, just my house. [LAUGHS]. JON STEWART: Watch party, or you just wanted to focus?

LAUREN WALKER: Watch party of one. JON STEWART: Nice. LAUREN WALKER: I ate a sandwich and I. kind of like, white knuckled it for two minutes. because it seemed like the energy was nervous. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: She was a little nervous. Yeah. LAUREN WALKER: The handshake thing. I was like--. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: I liked the handshake. Jon, what did you think? JON STEWART: I would have done bro hug. [LAUGHS]. I'm always-- I'm a big bro hug. Like, if I were her, I walk--. first of all, I love the way she did it. because it was very clear that she had decided on a game plan. And it sort of-- to me, it set--.

it set the tone for this idea that she had a very clear idea. of what she wanted to execute. And he really was like, what time is the debate? Like, let me show up at eight, and whatever happens, happens. So I like that it set this idea that she. was going to be intentional and purposeful throughout it. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: But then he wouldn't look. at her for the entire debate. LAUREN WALKER: It was so weird. JON STEWART: I thought that was super odd, but I can't remember. He did look at Biden a few times,

but I think that was more like, is this dude all right? I never felt like he had that relationship. with like, Hillary Clinton. So you say like, well, she's a strong, smart woman, so maybe he's intimidated by that. But with Hillary Clinton, like, he followed her. around like a looming shadow. I don't think he would have done that to Kamala Harris. I do think he's oddly not sure what to do. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: He's intimidated. LAUREN WALKER: He can't be normal.

Yeah. He doesn't know what to do. JON STEWART: Well, that--. [LAUGHS]. --that could be the title of his biography. LAUREN WALKER: I can't be normal. JON STEWART: Donald Trump. I really can't be normal. I have a very difficult time being normal. Well, we've got two reporters that are actually covering. these campaigns that are going to give the insight. because we can all talk. I talk all the shit I want. I very rarely know what's actually. going on with any of those. So our two guests today are reporters, and we're going to get their thoughts. on what the hell happened. So let me jump-- let me jump in on that,

and I'll see you guys on the other side. [DRUMS PLAYING]. All right, everybody, we are in post-debate glow, aura, enjoyment. We are going to be joined by Ashley Parker, senior national political correspondent. for The Washington Post, been covering elections, won Pulitzer prizes as a team covering elections. We've got David Graham, staff writer of The Atlantic, written about Harris and Trump, and following.

these things very closely. Guys, thank you very much for joining us, David and Ashley. DAVID GRAHAM: Of course. ASHLEY PARKER: Yeah. Thanks for having us. JON STEWART: Let's talk about the debate. And I feel sorry for the national political reporters, the people that are following around because this may be. the last event that we have. It may now be just 10 weeks of following. people around on a bus. Have you interviewed both candidates extemporaneously? Have you spent time with Trump, with Kamala Harris?

ASHLEY PARKER: I have spent a tremendous amount of time. with Donald Trump. I started--. JON STEWART: Ashley, I'm going to stop you right there. [LAUGHTER]. I hear the exhaustion and the pain in your voice. I see it in your-- your demeanor changed when I said, have you spent time? You said it in the way of someone that perhaps has been. at the DMV for 30 to 35 years, and there. was a pain in your voice. I could feel it. ASHLEY PARKER: Not going to weigh in, but--.

[LAUGHTER]. --but I will just say, I started covering--. this was when I worked for The New York Times, but I started covering Donald Trump. two days after poor, sad, curmudgeonly, but ultimately. sweet Jeb Bush dropped out. And I have basically covered him in some capacity. ever since. JON STEWART: Imagine you start your presidential campaign. with the high hopes of adding an exclamation. point to your name. That's how well you thought this-- what punctuation. should we use here?

Question mark, period-- Jeb Bush. put an exclamation point next to his name on the posters. And two days after running into Trump, he had to-- he had to leave. Why was Donald Trump so successful in steamrolling. all of the Republicans back in those days? ASHLEY PARKER: I mean, a couple of reasons. One-- and this is why he's still. fairly successful-- a certain thing is, I think shamelessness. is his superpower. And he-- covering previous candidates,

we might do-- if I covered Mitt Romney, you might do a fact check on Mitt. Romney, something he's saying. And you say, well, actually, Massachusetts wasn't always. number one in job creation. You know, that year, it was tied with Texas, or that other year, it actually came in third. And Mitt Romney would then change. what he was saying on the stump, not because he cared that The Washington Post had. given him four Pinocchios, though we. think those noses matter--. JON STEWART: Solid. Solid rating system. ASHLEY PARKER: --but because he believed he. would pay a penalty with voters for seeming dishonest.

And Trump sort of realized that there would be no penalty. That with his base and his voters, if he just repeated. something enough, and confidently enough, and forcefully enough, and shamelessly enough. that it could become a certain type of truth. JON STEWART: That--. I got to tell you, that's the confidence. David, I'll ask you--. that struck me. After the debate now, we watched it and were thoroughly. stunned by where the candidates were confident,

where they were unconfident. But what was most surprising was Donald Trump immediately. in the spin room, confidently saying, I don't think there's going to be another debate. because I won this so--. I believe the phrase was tremendously. I believe he said he won it tremendously. And it was such a knockout that he didn't think--. he said the only people that asked. for rematches are the losers. I've so clearly won it. Is that the process that he was going through,

what Ashley was saying, which is I'm shameless. I know I got my ass kicked. I'm just going to run out there and go, wow. I'm awesome. DAVID GRAHAM: I mean, it's amazing. You know, even his closest allies were saying, well, you know, he had a hard time. He was going against-- it was three on one. because the moderators. And you see Trump just being like, no, I won. I had that. I think that is very much the kind of bravado. and the willingness to say whatever. he feels like he's got to say. JON STEWART: What about the Harris campaign? What was your feeling of how their team was reacting to it?

DAVID GRAHAM: I mean, [LAUGHS] I think they. were already kind of floating. And then to receive the Taylor Swift endorsement. on top of that, I don't think their spirits could. have been a whole lot higher. JON STEWART: Is that actually [INAUDIBLE]. is the Taylor Swift endorsement act? Like, I knew it was a nice piece of pop culture. And I know that she obviously has very dedicated fans. But is there any thought that there. were Taylor Swift fans sort of in the Venn diagram. that were not? That she was going to say, you really. should look at this Kamala Harris character.

And her fans would be like, I don't know. I've been really leaning Trump on this one. Like, is that a meaningful thing? DAVID GRAHAM: I think maybe. And I think the reason is it turns people out. It's not about persuasion. It's about whether people will do it. And so she puts in a link to voting registration website. And the government said, I think they'd gotten. 300,000 or 400,000 hits on that site, just from her Instagram post. So enough of those votes in swing states. could make a difference. Not because she's going to persuade anyone, but just because maybe if they were kind of on the fence.

about whether to vote, or feeling blasé, that that'll get them fired up. JON STEWART: I was struck during the debate. by which subject areas the candidates. were most confident in. It was very clear during the abortion part of the debate. that Kamala Harris was feeling it on a visceral level, was able to deliver, I thought, maybe her best moment. Maybe that and Ukraine, where she was she was confident. She was purposeful.

She was visceral in her response. And I thought it put Trump back on his heels. I thought Trump was most confident in the warning. for people's pets. [LAUGHS]. Ashley, in your mind, what were the areas. that you thought were most confident and least confident? ASHLEY PARKER: Yeah. So I think you're absolutely right on abortion. It was interesting because the vice president, her first kind. of broad answer, you could tell her voice was like a little. shaky, a little nervous.

And then abortion came up right afterward. She 100% hit her stride. And I feel like that sort of gave her the confidence. and just the sense of grounding to proceed with that vibe. throughout the debate. I mean, the other thing where I thought she was very confident. and in talking to her team, this is something they. practiced, they rehearsed. From that opening handshake, right? Which they described as to me as a power move. There--. JON STEWART: Wait, that--. so the handshake is-- everything is choreographed. Like, that you're going to walk out there and no matter what,

you're going to him, and you're hitting him with a handshake. ASHLEY PARKER: Yes. I mean, their-- their goal was to make sure--. and this started before the debate-- their goal, and it was born out as successful, was to make sure that as they put. it, that Trump was triggered by the time he walked on stage. So that started with they released an ad featuring. former President Obama talking about crowd size. on the morning of the debate. They-- they--. [LAUGHS]. --they --with Obama, right? Doing that hand motion. They blanketed-- they blanketed Philadelphia where.

the debate was held with billboards and ads. designed to troll Trump. One had-- was a crowd size one that. featured a full Philadelphia pretzel. for Harris and then a piece--. just a mere piece of a Philadelphia. pretzel that looked like a limp pretzel for Trump. Right? JON STEWART: So the idea being as he's being driven. in a van towards the venue, he's going to look at that. and go, limp pretzel? Wait, what? No. ASHLEY PARKER: Yes. JON STEWART: I'm a full pretzel.

ASHLEY PARKER: Right. Like limp pretzel, I have to abandon all self discipline. and control when I step on that debate stage. So then-- and you could watch it from that--. again, that opening handshake, walking over, getting. in his space, introducing herself, pronouncing her name correctly. Then there was--. JON STEWART: She-- she literally was going up to him. and trolling him with the pronunciation. This is unbelievable. I have to say, coming off of the NFL's first weekend, this is sounding so much like when you listen.

to football analysts talking about schematics. and a game plan for there. I mean, it is--. we have a scripted first 15 plays. You're going to go in there. They have a weakness in the backfield. I mean, this is--. it really feels like a football game plan. ASHLEY PARKER: And they had--. I mean, I won't take you through all of them, but you could watch that debate step by step. They had these little Easter eggs, things she would say and do that they had practiced. and believed that Trump-- and they were almost always. correct-- would be unable to resist wasting.

time digressing into that. So a very subtle one that people might not have noticed. was when she used--. there's a million analyzes you can pull on. But when she wanted to rebut his economic plan, she did so by mentioning Wharton, which. is, of course, where Trump famously went, and takes a lot of pride. And you saw him. He-- he kind of rears back and says, well, I went to the Wharton School. And--. JON STEWART: That's when she said. the 19 Nobel Prize economists, including ones from Wharton.

And he couldn't help himself. ASHLEY PARKER: He couldn't help himself. That was the first one. That's very subtle. For those of us who have been covering Trump since 2015, a more obvious one was when she invited people to watch. his rallies and then-- JON STEWART: Right. ASHLEY PARKER: --right. The crowd size, says people are leaving out of boredom. That-- first he responded to that. JON STEWART: And it's the first time you. saw his-- his eyes went wide. ASHLEY PARKER: Yes. You saw the eyebrows went up. The eyes went wide. He adopted that like, 10,000 foot gaze, scowl. JON STEWART: Right. ASHLEY PARKER: And it was that thing that then led him. into the now most viral digression.

about our nation's cats and dogs. JON STEWART: Which by the way, as a pet owner, as somebody myself, I was watching with my dog. And there was a lot of--. I could see a lot of fear. That's actually been my favorite thing. If you go on like a TikTok or an Instagram, they're putting out these reels of Donald Trump saying that. And it's just reaction shots of pets who are looking. unbelievably frightened. David, you were kind of writing more. about Trump during all this. Did they have a similar Belichick-like game plan.

as they walked in down to--. I mean, everybody talks about his game planning as, you know, he's ready for anything. Did they do any of that? DAVID GRAHAM: Right. They say he's been preparing for this his whole life. And while the Harris campaign was letting it be known. that she had spent all this time, and talking about who was doing the prep, and how there was an aide dressed. up like Trump in a boxy suit, with the whole 9 yards. JON STEWART: [LAUGHS] They went method. They had to go method. DAVID GRAHAM: They totally went method.

And they wanted people to know they were going method. JON STEWART: Yeah, sure. DAVID GRAHAM: Trump is blustering. about I don't need to prep. And it was interesting to see--. could hear his allies, some of them saying, oh, he's going to be fine. And then other people a little bit nervous about that. And the moment that he started to get off track, the moment we. started hearing about the cats and dogs, then you see the recriminations. And you see people saying, is it really too. much to ask him to prepare? And what we've seen from a decade of this. is it is too much to ask him to prepare. And if Joe Biden collapses on stage, that works for him.

But if Joe Biden doesn't collapse on stage, then he tends to struggle. JON STEWART: I thought he did have a good first, I thought, two and a half to three minutes. I thought then, you know, his preparation for that early two. and a half to three minutes, I thought, worked out very nicely. But then you could see he started to get distracted, and things started to collapse and fall apart. I want to talk about the people around them and--. and how that manifests for the candidates' psyche.

And I want to start with Trump. My sense of him is, look, a monarchy makes a lot of sense. to him. He runs the Trump organization. He doesn't even run-- it's not a public company. He doesn't have a board of directors. It's Donald Trump. When he hosted The Apprentice, my favorite part. of the apprentice is after he mediated. a dispute between Meatloaf and Gary Busey, you know, and the end, and Busey had to leave. and Meatloaf was going to stay, there was always two people. next to him at the table.

There was always that last coda of the end of The Apprentice. And it was either Ivanka, or that dude George, or somebody else. And he would go, oh, that was tough. And they would go, you made the right-- you made the good. call, boss. Well done. That was-- couldn't have done anything else. Is that the vibe around him? Are there people there who tell him the truth, or is he bathed in the kind of, you are our little prince.

world that seems like has been following him his entire life? DAVID GRAHAM: Yeah, he gets a lot of that. I mean, there are people who try to tell him the truth. And what happens is they tend to fall out of favor. They don't hang around long, or as is. the case with a lot of Trump people, they sort of cycle through. So they come back again. But they don't-- they don't stay long. And I think what you're describing of his experience. with the Trump organization has been borne. out in how he runs campaigns. And it was how he was president, too. I mean, you'd see him frustrated that he couldn't.

just do things unilaterally. Like, he-- he had not watched the Schoolhouse Rock, and he couldn't believe that he couldn't just. do things with the power of the presidency. And that's just his attitude is he knows best, and he wants to do it his way. JON STEWART: Is that in some ways. comforting in that maybe his authoritarianism. isn't malevolent? It's born of spoiledness? It's-- it's born of a more adolescent view based. on being the golden child? DAVID GRAHAM: No. [LAUGHTER]. I think you're right, but I don't think it's comforting.

JON STEWART: Do you want to take some time? David, take your time with this. You don't have to answer right away. DAVID GRAHAM: I think the result is the same, unfortunately. JON STEWART: Right. It's-- so there is-- the anger is real. The malevolence is real. DAVID GRAHAM: Yeah. JON STEWART: Oh, boy. That's-- for those of you who are on the podcast, David is just nodding enthusiastically--. [LAUGHTER]. --about that. Ashley, what about the Harris campaign? Can she be told the truth? Is she surrounded-- how much of this--. I'm always struck by how insulated.

and isolated these politicians are. ASHLEY PARKER: So a couple of things. It's different from the Trump campaign, first of all, because she--. on the one hand, she's cycled and churned. through a tremendous amount of staff. going back to her days in California, to the Senate, to the campaign, to the vice presidency, which is normally an indictment of someone's management style. But all of that staff-- and this is something she has done. very deliberately-- is she is elevated. and surrounded herself by women, by people of color,

by women of color. So her staff just look like--. they look different than Trump's staff. And they bring different perspectives. and life experiences. So that's one thing. The second is recently, after she moved. to the top of the ticket, a small handful, but a significant handful of top people from Obama world. and one from Clinton world came in. So David Plouffe--. JON STEWART: Obama world and Clinton world. They sound like-- like closed down. amusement parks where they--. oh, they came in.

There was Obama world. It was open up in Nashville for a while, but then it closed down. So-- so she brings on people who have run or have. been involved in other campaigns. for-- for Democratic leaders. ASHLEY PARKER: Yeah. And not just that. I mean, the thing that's striking to me, especially. about the Obama people-- and she brought. in Jennifer Palmieri, who was key in Hillary Clinton's. unsuccessful campaign-- is these are people who have done. two things successfully that she will likely need. to do successfully to win. And it's the question of can they recreate that magic?

One is they were able to harness Obama's sort. of authentic excitement and enthusiasm into actually like, getting information from voters and mobilizing. that to the polls. That's something she'll need to do. And the other thing is Obama and Clinton. took a very different approach and got a very. different electoral outcome. But Obama sort of did not make race the center--. the historic nature of his candidacy, the centerpiece of--. JON STEWART: Let that speak for itself. ASHLEY PARKER: Yeah. His view was people would look at him. and understand he was a Black guy.

And so he didn't need to constantly talk about it. And he talked about race in a way that to many Americans. felt inclusive and inspiring. And that's also something you're. seeing Kamala Harris doing with her historic candidacy. JON STEWART: David, is it in your mind--. we talk about, boy, that was a terrible night for Trump. He's going to have to do something. Does he have to do something? In some measure, the day he came down the golden escalator. and said, I think most Mexicans are rapists, but like, sometimes they send some good people.

From that moment on, it became somewhat clear, this was an antibiotic resistant candidate. The normal things that would take out a candidate. have no idea. Oh, the Access Hollywood tape and all those different things. Well, that was 2016. He's been through more of this than anybody. It doesn't seem as though these moments. that would be disqualifying--. I mean, and honestly, in any other political campaign,

in any other environment, if you. stood on the stage, true or not, and just shouted, immigrants are eating dogs and people's pets, I mean, Howard Dean was a little loud with his scream. Michael Dukakis somewhat answered. a question intemperately. Like, they'd be done. It doesn't seem to have any impact. in any way, shape, or form on his political fortune. DAVID GRAHAM: Yeah. I mean, the amazing thing about him.

is just how consistent his support is. He's always there in the mid 40%. When he's winning, when he's losing, it just doesn't move, no matter what he does. And I don't think we've ever seen anyone. like that in American politics, who has such stable approval. He can't get above 50% and he can't fall below 40. So it doesn't matter what he does in that sense. JON STEWART: But even within that stable approval, it--. now they talk about he's picking up more support. in the Black community, or the Hispanic community, or-- but he's losing more support in women.

There are groups that move in and out, but he is consistently reckless, and it seems to matter not. DAVID GRAHAM: I think one thing we're seeing this campaign. from Democrats is a realization--. and it took a long time for them. to get to this-- that there's not going to be like, the moment or the gaffe that does in Trump. I think there was always this hope like, well, you know, he's going to do it this time. And-- and they seem to have realized that it's not a thing.

He may lose or he may win. JON STEWART: That's my favorite thing about Democrats. My favorite thing about Democrats. was that, he got indicted. Now we've got him. Right? Like, there's all these things that--. there was always that moment where. like, as soon as that Mueller report comes out, goodbye, Donald Trump. Like, at each turn, it always seems like this. is the conclusive moment. Look, he's on tape saying I want Putin. to win because I love him. And just everybody's like, oh, that'll do it.

None of it does it. DAVID GRAHAM: Right. Exactly. JON STEWART: What pressure does he feel? What does he think he has to do? DAVID GRAHAM: I think he thinks he has to turn out the base. He consistently does not do things. that would look like outreach. And people make fun of his kind of silent majority rhetoric. as being out of touch and being like, Nixonian. But that doesn't mean he doesn't believe it. For all the things he will say that he doesn't believe, I think he really thinks that if everyone votes, he'll win.

JON STEWART: Why shouldn't he believe it? He should believe it because they always. underestimate him in polls. And when the elections come out, he always has, you know, that silent base. I wouldn't call them the majority, but they're certainly-- they're certainly there. DAVID GRAHAM: I mean, I think the reason he shouldn't. believe it is in 2016, he won less of the vote. than Hillary Clinton. In 2018, when he made himself the center of the campaign, Republicans did poorly. In 2020, he lost. In 2022 when he made himself the center of the campaign.

again, Republicans did poorly. So there's evidence for it. But he still is really-- he believes it. JON STEWART: Right. ASHLEY PARKER: What's fascinating, and I never understood, in addition to the belief. that Donald Trump would win and become presidential, there was also this belief that he could win and move. to the center, which seemed a little more. legitimate because he had--. JON STEWART: Oh, dear God. How many times has Van Jones given you that dewy-eyed CNN, "I believe Donald Trump today has become the unifier.". Like, there's always that moment. where somebody is like, he's really different now.

Never. ASHLEY PARKER: But what is fascinating is that he--. his base is immovable. He is almost certainly never going to lose them. And so there is this world where he could maybe. bring them along a little bit. But since covering him, there's all these moments. So the second thing is Donald Trump, the way. to understand him, or one way is he's always. trying to win, like, the minute, the hour, the day, the person directly in front of him. This is not like four-dimensional chess. So people would never understand, well, why when he was talking to the dreamers did he say,

you guys are wonderful valedictorians. Of course you should stay in the country. And then 10 minutes later, when they brought. in a group of sheriffs, was he like, the dreamers are. just out in the outer awful. Let's round them up and send them back. Right? Like, it makes no sense. But he's always trying to win the people in front of him. But when he is faced with those two things, as we've seen on say, abortion, where. he's been all over the map, he will. always, ultimately retreat back to what. his far right base wants. He'll move to the middle. The right wing echo chamber will freak out at him,

and he will ultimately come down on their side. JON STEWART: So let's talk about that. Is that a purposeful move? Is it the idea that he so understands how loyal his base. is that he can stand up on a debate stage. and say, I actually created IVF. I will personally inseminate any woman. with sperm that wants it. That's how much I believe in IVF. I love it. Does he do that because he thinks I've.

delivered so well for my base. They'll never leave me. I can say whatever I want. ASHLEY PARKER: No, because then he freaks--. [LAUGHTER] --because--. [LAUGHTER]. JON STEWART: So this--. even that's not strategic. ASHLEY PARKER: Because then he freaks out. Like, he said something on the Florida abortion rule. He thought it should be longer than six weeks. JON STEWART: Six weeks is too short. ASHLEY PARKER: Right? Six weeks is too short. Then his base flipped out and then he came out and said, well, actually, I am going to vote. That seems very reasonable. JON STEWART: I think it's interesting that--.

look, what has been the Trump or far. right kryptonite, it would seem to me, is the court system. So anybody can say anything about anything on the radio. or on Fox News, other than the false claims about Dominion. and getting sued. But it's very clear that when they talk. about the fraudulent voting, and there were. so many illegal immigrants, and then when they go to court, they get thrown out because they have no proof. and they have-- and they get laughed out,

I do think her style as a prosecutor, Kamala Harris, in some ways embodies a little bit of that kryptonite. And I thought in the debate, she could even do more of it. in the way--. I was-- I was struck that especially when talking. about the economy-- when she talked about abortion, she took that prosecutorial style. When she talked about the economy, she didn't. Ashley, is that because they don't-- they lack. the confidence in that narrative, or they hadn't thought through that litigation yet?

ASHLEY PARKER: I mean, the economy is an incredibly tricky. issue for the Biden-Harris administration. because there's an actual--. there's a lot of economic indicators. If you're pointing to these tangible things, you can argue that the economy has. improved under their administration. versus former President Trump. But the things that people actually feel, right? Which they vote on, which is like, what are interest rates, and can you afford to buy a new house, or do your three kids still have to share a bedroom? And what is the--. I mean, this sounds cliche, but what.

is the cost of eggs and milk? And when you're driving--. I had someone in the Biden administration. to say every single gas station with the cost of gas. is a billboard that hurts us when you're driving. Those things have not changed yet because they're lagging. JON STEWART: Well, the gas certainly has. ASHLEY PARKER: The gas has. JON STEWART: The billboards for that has. ASHLEY PARKER: But-- but sort of again, like, the--. the vibes, the feel and the sense. People feel that things felt better under Trump. And so there's something incredibly insulting to voters.

who are stressed about money or stretched. to get to the end of the month to hear Harris saying. things are fantastic now. So it's hard to prosecute that case. JON STEWART: This is a great place for us. to talk about a little bit, because I think this talks. to how you just described it, Ashley, sounds. perfectly reasonable to me. And I don't understand why a candidate feels that at least. that beginning framing is something that they. are not allowed to do. You know, that they're not allowed to say, look,

the economy is incredibly complex. I think we've made some strides in the right direction. through the pandemic. Let me walk you through what some of those decisions were. I know that if you're at home and it. doesn't feel that way to you, the economy. is very personal to people. Why can't that be the discussion. instead of are you better off than you were four years ago? And the first thing is, I'm going to give everyone. $6,000 for child care. And you're like, wait, what just happened? David, why can't candidates-- and I thought this was a real.

issue during the pandemic with our health care officials--. why can't they trust us enough to talk. to us like human beings in--. in those areas where they feel like it's not. completely black and white? DAVID GRAHAM: The people who they're talking to, they think, are not the most sophisticated voters. And I think they are probably right. Like, undecided voters are not the people who. are paying close attention. They don't-- some of them may have really nuanced views,

but a lot of them don't. And so there's a certain amount of they're pandering. to the lowest common denominator, and they. feel like they can't--. they can't get nuanced. ASHLEY PARKER: It's not that they're dumb. or that the Harris campaign thinks they're dumb, but they do understand that this. is a group of voters who is not particularly. tuned into politics. They're not paying a ton of attention. They have other things on their mind, including the cost of groceries. Like, they're going to tune in at the very end. of the election. They're also-- and this is kind of fascinating-- one. of the most skeptical groups of voters.

I was talking to a Democratic strategist who said when. we do focus groups with swing voters and I say, you know, well, what if I told you that Donald Trump appointed. the three most conservative justices who. helped overturn Roe v Wade? Would that change your view of him? And the first thing out of these voters mouths. is like, well, if that's true, I'm going to have to go home. and Google it, right? So there are also--. JON STEWART: Dear God. ASHLEY PARKER: So-- so it's a group. of voters who are very distrustful. of institutions, of political parties, of the media.

So that is all part of the discussion. of how do we message to them? How do we win them over? When do we win them over? When do we hit them with this message? When do we just get them to trust. that we're-- we're someone they should consider? That's absolutely all part of the discussion. JON STEWART: See, this is the most fascinating thing. I am so struck by-- every debate and all. the things-- we all have now a boilerplate. format that we go through. There's the debate. Then we go to the pundits. And then immediately, you go to, and now, we've got our own pollster,

and he's with a group of undecided voters, and they do that. And that always struck me as one. of the most ridiculous exercises in nothingness. that I have ever seen in my life. Well, I listened to it. How many of you now are for Kamala Harris? Whatever we just watched? Sure, that's fine. Aren't we infusing that undecided group of voters. as an idea that they've been vetted for their indecision, whereas like, half the time, it's political operatives just.

standing there, or the same person on the panel. every four years? There's a certain-- when-- when you. put somebody on a news channel, there's. a sense that has been vetted. DAVID GRAHAM: Mm-hmm. JON STEWART: And when you really drill down into it, it doesn't seem that way at all. Ashley, is there any value in those. kinds of theatrical moments with the panels? ASHLEY PARKER: So I think there is tremendous value. in focus groups.

Is there value in those TV focus groups immediately after. debates with undecided voters, and also, let's just pause--. like, what does it actually mean to be undecided. in the year of our Lord 2024, when your choices, regardless of what you think, like, are so diametrically. opposite that like--. like, you're just truly-- like, it's sort of like a-- like. an existential question of like, how does this even happen? But-- but focus groups in general. are incredibly valuable and insightful. And whenever anyone lets me sit in on one, I always do so.

And like--. JON STEWART: What is the difference between one. that you've seen on TV and one that you've sat in on? ASHLEY PARKER: So often, ones-- you know, campaigns and these groups are running. them for different things. Like, they're not trying to find. out who-- after this debate, who are you going to vote for. They're trying to find out like, how do you. feel about these issues, for instance, and what-- what might be a compelling message. So one thing, I think of a Democratic strategist--. I was not in this group, but he told me--. he said they were talking to some voters.

and they said, let's say Kamala Harris comes to your town. and you get to do an activity. You get to bring her and show her something in your town. What would you show her? JON STEWART: It's like a Bachelorette hometown. ASHLEY PARKER: Yes. JON STEWART: Oh, that's lovely. So I'm going to take them to meet my family, and then we're going to go to the custard shop. ASHLEY PARKER: Right. But this voter said, I would bring her to work with me. I would bring her to my first job, and then I would bring her to my second job. We would take the three buses it takes. to get from my first job to my second job. because I want her to understand,

like, how hard I am working and how. I am still barely surviving. So-- so that is kind of relevant and useful information. of where voters are and what they need from the candidates. in their lives. JON STEWART: You know, for me, it's shocking that that's what. it would take for a candidate to understand what people's. working lives are like. The idea that would be revelatory. speaks almost more to how insulated politicians. are from the day to day lives of their constituents.

I mean, that's-- what I seem to have learned from my time. in Washington is how unbelievably eccentric. the culture of Washington is, and how easily it sets up. barriers between the people you represent and the culture. of the town that you live in. Washington runs on a completely different currency. than the rest of the world. Let me ask you both then, having experienced.

these campaigns, do you feel the disconnect. that candidates have with the constituents or in the country? And for your experiences, what has struck you as the biggest. disconnect between Washington in general and the country. at large? ASHLEY PARKER: I'll start because I. can devil advocate it. I, in-- before Trump was even like, the word on people's tongues as a politician, I did a road trip in like, 2014, driving like, the old route 60 or 66 out to Indianapolis,

is where I flew home. And it was just talking to voters. It was talking to like, hundreds. upon hundreds of voters. And the thing I picked up, because again, it's always. good to talk to voters, was this sense that like, these people, Democrats, Republicans, whoever, were furious. Like, you would go to these houses and they all had--. I was with a photographer who noticed this. Like, visually it wasn't me. They all had like, bits of Americana, like flags and things like that on houses, and a lot of houses that maybe needed like, a new coat-- were.

kind of crumbling. And what they were furious was and what they said was, look, I did everything right. Like, I got a job. I worked 9 to 5. I had a pension. I moved to this district to go to the right school. I bought a house that my bank told me I could buy, that it would be irresponsible for me not to buy. Now, look. Every single house on my block is foreclosed. And those clowns in New York and Washington who ruined. my 401K and now, I can't retire,

who did all of this, like, there's no. consequences for them. And they were furious. And they didn't have the language, but they wanted to like, burn it all down. and drain the swamp. And that was something, for instance, that this. was not a disconnect at all. Donald Trump-- and again, I don't. think it was from doing a road trip. and talking to hundreds of voters. But he viscerally, instinctually. understood that anger, understood that frustration. with the system. JON STEWART: But that's my point. How is it that--. I mean, after the 2008 financial crisis and everything.

that occurred, how is it that Washington. did not understand that? And the problem with Trump is not necessarily. what his diagnosis is. It's what his prescription is. Look, the idea that he figured out people. were disconnected and angry and-- and all those things, and they wanted to drain the swamp is one thing. But he doesn't look like someone. who wants to reform the system in a positive way. to take the corruption out. He wants the deed to the swamp signed over to him because he. wants full and total, you know, monarchical control.

over everything. So I think that's-- we're sort of talking about the same. thing, which is how the fuck does Washington and politicians. who are from these districts not understand that. in their bones and try and reform this. system that's created this anger, rather than just take it over? DAVID GRAHAM: I think one thing that struck me when I first. moved to Washington was how actually, most of the people. in politics are totally normal.

Like, when you're reading about them from afar, they seem like they're special. And then you get there, and you're like, these are just these are just ordinary jerks. Like, they're as cool or as lame as everyone else. [LAUGHTER]. And I think part of the problem is as you elevate, you do get further removed from those things. You have fewer opportunities to--. to be a normal person and to be around normal people. You're around the same people in politics. and they start to rub off on each other. And like, I don't know how you saw that. Because if you're running the government, you have to run the government. Like, I need my senators to be paying attention.

to the legislation they're dealing with. and also to like, actually be in touch with real people. I think that's a tough thing to do. And I think the structures of government push against that. And I also think like, the pandemic. was a problem for that. I think a lot of politicians just recently lost. touch because they were not--. especially Democrats, were not actually. campaigning outside of Zoom. And I think that has created a disconnect. And they're having to work hard to try to rebuild that. and to like, remember how to talk to civilians. JON STEWART: Ultimately, I think that these--.

these are great points, and getting out there. And in your minds, would more debates be more helpful, do you think, for voters? Would you like to see more? I don't know that I would want to watch another one because I. don't feel that I would learn anything. particularly astonishing. And it would be like watching in the way. that people watch sometimes motor races, which. is like, I just want to see somebody spin out and flip. over, you know, and have something. unbelievably terrifying or exciting happening.

Is there more to learn in your minds. from that we haven't seen already, or would it be an exercise in spectacle? DAVID GRAHAM: Why not both? [LAUGHS] I think they're important. JON STEWART: You can have it all. DAVID GRAHAM: Yeah, I do think they're valuable. And I think part of that is because the candidates, both. of them spend so little time in situations where they don't. get to choose the questioner. They don't get to pick a friendly person. It's not a controlled environment. And so whether they're taking questions. from David Muir and Lindsey Davis. or taking questions from the other candidate,

it forces them to do something they don't do all the time. And that provides us a better sense. of what their character is, how they think on their feet, what they actually believe. And so I think that's worthwhile. JON STEWART: Ashley, what do you think? ASHLEY PARKER: Yeah. I mean, our debates is helpful with getting more information. than if say, each candidate sat down with, like, the subject matter experts. at The Washington Post, The Atlantic, The Wall Street Journal. No, absolutely not. But are those two candidates going to do that? No, absolutely not. So to David's point, debates may. be the best of like, the not particularly great options.

JON STEWART: To focus it. Ashley, as somebody who's had the pleasure of moderating one. of those, is there a change that you. would make in the formats? I mean, I think unfortunately, moderating a debate. is like hosting the Oscars. There's really not much of an upside. and I thought they did a fine job, as-- as most of the people. that have done it have done a fine job. Is there a change that you would make in the format. that you believe would make it more informational, more.

revelatory, more insightful? ASHLEY PARKER: It's a good question. I mean, I actually thought they--. moderating a debate, it's sort of like being. a kicker in football, right? Like, you're only remembered if you go. JON STEWART: Wide right, yeah. ASHLEY PARKER: So the best thing for debate. moderators to be unmem-- you remember the debate, you remember the moments, not the moderators. I mean, I thought David Muir and Lindsey Davis. did a fantastic job, including-- it is incredibly. difficult, as someone who has interviewed him, to fact check. Donald Trump in real time.

And they-- in certain key moments, they were prepared. And David Muir especially, in some. of those moments, like with the cats and dogs, would just-- he--. [LAUGHTER]. --he, I mean, he had the information at his disposal. from a verified, reliable source. And he was so sort of calm, which is not easy to do. in those situations. JON STEWART: Very calm. Yeah, no. Absolutely. Do you think would it be possible to do. two candidates sitting in front of each other, just talking?

Is that something that we could even pull. off in a modern political era? DAVID GRAHAM: Can you imagine Donald Trump doing that? JON STEWART: Personally, I cannot imagine him doing. anything where he is not the sole arbiter of the rulebook. and the rules of engagement. I mean, it gets back to what we had said earlier. I think his entire upbringing has been as the inheritor. of the castle, and that everything that's been done.

has been to his-- look, his first mentor outside. of his father was Roy Cohn. Like, you don't do that when your methodology. is collaboration and openness. Like, you do that when you want to get away with shit as best. you can and go scorched Earth on everybody else. So I just think that's his methodology. But as a country, it seems like we might be better. served if-- if they could.

DAVID GRAHAM: I mean, I think it's tricky because the. reason that--. the reason that you see people, candidates demagoguing, and bending the truth, and doing whatever. and these things is because the cameras are rolling. And also, they're valuable because the cameras are rolling. and voters can see that. If you could somehow get them to forget what was going on, I think that would help. But it's-- in the same way that C-SPAN--. JON STEWART: Whoa. [LAUGHTER]. DAVID GRAHAM: --in the same way--. JON STEWART: You just blew my mind. Like-- so it's almost like Schrodinger's candidate. Like, if we weren't watching this and we weren't filming it.

So how much has coverage, do you. think, changed our politics? Like, we all talk about sunlight. is the best disinfectant. And transparency-- but has our transparency-- like, would these guys be much better if we weren't there? DAVID GRAHAM: I mean, I think you. can make a pretty convincing argument that C-SPAN. helped break Congress. Because suddenly, you could watch them doing it. So yeah. [LAUGHTER]. JON STEWART: Fucking C-SPAN!

I knew it. Those pricks. We've been all looking in the wrong direction. to blame somebody. It's C-SPAN's fault for putting security cameras up. DAVID GRAHAM: Yeah. Turn the camera around. [LAUGHS]. ASHLEY PARKER: That sounds like a slate pitch to me, David. [LAUGHTER]. JON STEWART: Done. C-SPAN's fault. Well, guys, I know you've. got another, what is this? 10 weeks of this? What have we got now? Somewhere around there? DAVID GRAHAM: Who even knows? ASHLEY PARKER: Something. JON STEWART: You guys aren't doing it. like you're prisoners where you're just checking. off days as you go along. You're just in it right now, and that just is what it is.

ASHLEY PARKER: Well, also, I'll just say, I think people are skeptical that it necessarily. ends on election day. JON STEWART: Right. I keep forgetting that that's-- yeah. Are you seeing the campaigns being. as aggressive with the post-election strategizing, and scheming, and game planning as they. are for the debates and such? ASHLEY PARKER: Yeah, absolutely. And again, it's not just until the electoral. It's like, well, if Donald Trump loses, will he accept the results? He's shown no indication. What will his supporters do?

Like, that's another open question. DAVID GRAHAM: Oh, yeah. I mean, you've got the legal war rooms, but you also just have this sort. of like, contingency planning. I like to take a vacation after the election. because I'm usually exhausted. And I'm just like, when is that? Is that-- ASHLEY PARKER: Yeah. JON STEWART: You can't even plan a trip! DAVID GRAHAM: December 1? Is it January 7? Is it January 21? I have no idea. ASHLEY PARKER: I know. It's like, when can I use my Marriott points? [LAUGHTER]. JON STEWART: Well, guys, my advice to you. would be only work Mondays. Because I got to tell you, it's been transformative. Thank you both very much for joining.

us and talking about that. Ashley Parker, senior national political correspondent. for The Washington Post. David Graham, staff writer at The Atlantic. Guys, thank you for giving a much clearer perspective, having been involved in all this, and really. helping us understand what's--. what's going on behind what C-SPAN is showing us. I really do appreciate it. DAVID GRAHAM: Thank you. ASHLEY PARKER: Thank you. [DRUMS PLAYING]. JON STEWART: I don't--. what they do, the day to day, I could not do that.

I would lose my shit. LAUREN WALKER: It already feels too much. JON STEWART: I lost my shit just being in the conversation. with them for an hour. It's so claustrophobic. LAUREN WALKER: Yeah. Props to them. JON STEWART: I thought it was really interesting, though. They were like, I don't know when to plan the vacation. Like, your whole life is consumed. by these endless campaigns. And they're like, yeah. We used to know, November 8, I could. get a Club Med in Turks and Caicos, and decompress for five days.

And now they're like, could be January. Might have to then jump in and cover the Civil War. Like, we don't even know what's going to happen. LAUREN WALKER: Topsy-turvey. JON STEWART: Topsy-turvy. What else we got as we roll on, now that we're back, weekly show pod, banging out the episodes every week? What else we got? LAUREN WALKER: Well, while we were gone, we put out a call for our listeners to either give us. some suggestions for what we should cover, why they might be upset with you, et cetera. So we have all that.

I'm going to start with someone had. a really interesting new idea for how. we should handle debates--. JON STEWART: [INAUDIBLE]. LAUREN WALKER: --which I think is cool. They said if anything productive is going. to get discussed, we need two desks, two pens, one prompt, five paragraphs. Dueling five paragraph essays. If we ask that of our children to graduate high school, it's fair to ask that of our elected reps. JON STEWART: Boy, what a nice idea. You give them a prompt. You give him 45 minutes. Pencils down, and then they have to read their essay.

and discuss it. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: But can you imagine Trump doing that? JON STEWART: Can you-- is there anything more exciting. than watching people write? LAUREN WALKER: Actually, this person. went on and said we should do ASMR of the pen and paper. You could cut that up on TikTok. JON STEWART: This is a person that clearly put. in a lot of thought into this and in many ways, should be called upon. Forget about the League of Women Voters, or the debate commission. I think we should put whatever it is, at banana 12, you know--.

[LAUGHS]. --he should be the-- or she should be the producer. of the next debate. That's-- that's lovely. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: OK. We have a good question. And actually, this is something that we've talked about. But this person wants to how do you talk to someone who. believes conspiracy theories? JON STEWART: Oh. I don't think you can. I think it depends on how far gone they're gone. But you know, one of the things you realize about people who. believe conspiracy theories is they're. not-- because they always say, I'm just asking questions. But when you ask questions, if you're not.

willing to hear answers, then you're clearly. not just asking questions. What you're trying to do is just sow doubt. The thing that always strikes me about conspiracy theories, because I'm generally skeptical, right? And that's always the basis of a conspiracy theory. The official story that you've been told. is not the total story, which I--. is an ethos. I believe in that. I believe that oftentimes--. generally, I don't believe it's through malevolence, although I think at times, it's through malevolence. I think it's either through incompetence. or that generally, stories are not linear.

And there are facts that are inconvenient. or don't quite fit in. But the problem I have with conspiracies. is they don't apply the same skepticism. to the counter-narrative. And it's very hard to permeate that. And it's not to suggest that people shouldn't be skeptical. or that they shouldn't challenge the official line, and they shouldn't be worried. But what they should understand is very rarely. do official lines have their shit together to the point.

that there won't be inconsistencies. But those inconsistencies are different. than a malevolent and sure-footed interpretation. that it was actually fully this other thing. That-- that's hard. LAUREN WALKER: A new trend is that the conspiracy. theory-minded people don't necessarily. have a counter narrative. They just poke holes in the narrative. and say something else is true. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Yeah. JON STEWART: Right. Right. Right. LAUREN WALKER: You don't need to have like, a full.

narrative anymore. JON STEWART: Do you have friends. that are conspiracy theorists in those areas, and what would those be? BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Yeah. I mean, that's why this question. really stood out to me was like, you know, holidays, and--. I it's people I love, people I'm very close with. And it also goes to like, coffee's. going to kill you, right? Like, the COVID vaccine is the reason that you're. getting skin cancer. Whatever. Like, all of these things are on Instagram. JON STEWART: Right. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: And I'm seeing it on the internet. I mean, we even saw in the debate, like, he was like,

I saw it on TV. So it becomes like, a real problem where you're like, I love these people, but I just can't. JON STEWART: How do we find that balance. between questioning whether or not like, a COVID vaccine can. cause bad effects--. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Yeah. JON STEWART: --and every time a football player gets. injured, it's because of that? Like, there's got to be a space for skepticism. It's such an important part of discourse. But it can't fall into that.

Maybe that's it. Maybe saying to them, I appreciate. your skepticism on that. I feel I have questions about what you're saying. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Yeah. JON STEWART: I have a certain-- maybe. that's a way to diffuse it. I have no fucking idea. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Yep. JON STEWART: That's a tough one. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: I know. Yeah let me know when you figure it out. [LAUGHTER]. JON STEWART: Thanksgiving is coming. I've got to figure it out quickly. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Yeah. JON STEWART: We've got to get this done. [LAUGHS]. LAUREN WALKER: Do you have room for one more, Jon? JON STEWART: One more. Bring it. LAUREN WALKER: All right.

JON STEWART: Bring it. LAUREN WALKER: People want to what is the toughest interview. you've ever done, and why? JON STEWART: I've got to tell you, Harry Reid was a tough one. Because Harry Reid was the Senate Majority. Leader, Senator from Nevada. Yeah, passed away. But had a really interesting life. and had written a book about it. Was raised in a literal dirt floor shack in the desert. And really, the kind of poverty that is--.

is Dust Bowl-y. And so he-- he brings on, he comes on to sit down. And I'm sitting with him, and I start to, you know, "You were raised on a dirt floor. And to come from that to go--" And he really did not. seem familiar with the story. And it wasn't a tough interview in that it was combative. It was more bewildering. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Oh, interesting. JON STEWART: I think it was about. three minutes in when I was like, have you read this book?

Because it's fascinating. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: It's fiction? JON STEWART: It's your story. You should really look at it because it's remarkable. But it was just one of those like, look, man. These guys are-- they're running around all day. They're busy. They're up on a book tour. And I think he just was in like, a brain fart era. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Hmm. JON STEWART: But for me, I had been invested. in reading the whole thing. And I'm parsing it with him. And he really was like, where was that, now? Nevada? BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: He was giving you nothing. We need to find his ghostwriter.

JON STEWART: Nothing. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Yeah. JON STEWART: But those are the tough ones. And then there's always the combative ones. The ones I hate the most are there. be people that write the books that are like, liberals skull fuck children. And then you're like, why would you say that? And you go, well, I don't think that far apart, liberals and conservatives. I think it's-- they take an incredibly. strong position for their reactionary. audience in the book. And then you bring them on and they're like, oh, people are just people. And if we all just--.

I'd like to get back to that feeling on September 12. when we were all one nation. And you're like, well, then maybe you. shouldn't write that liberals are an enemy column. within the United States that are trying. to destroy it from within. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Yeah. JON STEWART: So those are also-- those are the ones that. also can give you problems. [LAUGHS]. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Sounds fun. JON STEWART: Yeah, it's fun. But it's all good. And we've had another lovely pod. We are back now. Our break is over. As always, I want to thank lead producer Lauren Walker,

producer Brittany Mehmedovic, video editor and engineer. Rob Vitolo, who I want to tell the audience. survived an earthquake during the recording of this podcast. Rob, are you still there? Are you alive? ROB VITOLO: Hanging in there. We're hanging in there. JON STEWART: Rob, you survived a 5.1. earthquake while we were talking. and didn't lose internet. ROB VITOLO: Yeah. I don't want to give any utility too much credit there, but I do bullshit. JON STEWART: You're probably right.

But you are-- you are safe and you. continue to operate in the genius manner. that you always do. And-- and we appreciate it. ROB VITOLO: Thank you. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Rob's always killing it. ROB VITOLO: Thank you. JON STEWART: He's always killing it. Audio editor and engineer Nicole Boyce, researcher. and associate producer Jillian Speer, and as always, executive producers. Chris McShane and Katie Gray. What are the socials, Brittany? BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: We are Weekly Show Pod on Twitter, Weekly Show Podcast on Instagram threads, TikTok, and The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart on YouTube. JON STEWART: And if any of you are listening to this. or seeing this right now, that means.

that there was no follow-up giant earthquake. and that Rob was able to get this thing. together enough to send it out over the airwaves. Thank you guys very much. And we shall see you again next week. [MUSIC PLAYING]. The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart. is a Comedy Central podcast that's produced by Paramount. Audio and Busboy Productions. [MUSIC CONTINUES].