Mayor Zohran Mamdani on Socialism, Politics & NYC | The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart

JON STEWART: It sounds like what you're doing differently. is you're being competent or ruthlessly pursuing those goals. and chipping away at them. So why take that on? ZOHRAN MAMDANI: You know, I want to be honest with people. about what it is that I actually believe in, and I also think what we've seen over many decades. is a fear mongering in our politics, where anything that we disagree with. or anything that portends significant change. is described as if it is socialist, you know, at times as if it is Communist.

And the intent of that is to end the conversation there. and then, and it especially happens when you're talking. about something that would disproportionately. benefit working people. If we truly want to reckon with one in four New Yorkers being. in poverty, we have to also ask ourselves about. if it's important to change the framework with which. what we determine success to be. And also, being a Muslim Democratic socialist, I thought it would be pretty straightforward. [LAUGHING]. JON STEWART: You're just like, what.

if I label myself something that scares people the most? I'm a Muslim, Democratic socialist. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: If you scare you them, you scare them twice. JON STEWART: And I'd like to run your public. transportation system. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: Yeah. [LAUGHING]. [MUSIC PLAYING]. JON STEWART: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome, once again, to The Weekly Show podcast. My name is Jon Stewart. Today is Tuesday, July 21. We are coming off of the beautiful World. Cup that was held in Canada, Mexico, and the United States.

And what a treat that was, and it's over now, and I do. hope that the enthusiasm and the love that Americans showed. for the game of football and for the countries that were. playing, I hope this isn't, like, we had a foreign exchange student. come live with us for six weeks and, like, got along great. But now that they're gone, and every now and again, we'll check back in by text. No, I hope that it's a lasting relationship.

and one that we value. But, you know, in these times, the moments post-World Cup, there's a period of reflection, and we're. going to do that on today's podcast, not reflecting on the world, but reflecting on one. of the cities that was central to the World Cup experience, which was New York City. And who better to check in with New York City. and with how things are going, at that time, than his honor,

for God's sakes, the mayor of New York City? Let's talk to the mayor. Why not? Why not us? Let's talk to the mayor of New York City. [MUSIC PLAYING]. So, ladies and gentlemen, we have the distinct honor. and pleasure today to be welcoming. the mayor of the great, great city, that. is the one that never sleeps, the biggest apple of them. all, New York City. Mayor Zohran Mamdani is joining us. Mayor, Mr. Mayor, your honor, his honor, your honor,

how are you? ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I'm doing well, man. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be back. JON STEWART: Are you still feeling the afterglow, the joy. of the halo effect, of the New York. Knickerbockers' incredible run to the championship this year? Do you still feel it? ZOHRAN MAMDANI: 100%. Knicks in 5 has become a greeting in New York City. JON STEWART: It's the most beautiful-- one question, sir,

at City Hall, at the end of the Canyon. of Heroes, in the parade, there was a great deal of Knicks. memorabilia that was hung up around. in decorative fashion, giant Knicks caricatures, Knicks jerseys. I guess, my question to you is, may I have those? [LAUGHING]. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: You know what? I'll ask the team where they are. JON STEWART: I don't know if there's a--. I don't know if there's a shed behind City.

Hall, where they keep them. But if they're still there--. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I will get back to you, brother. JON STEWART: I appreciate it. How are you feeling now? So you have been the mayor for--. you started January 1. It is now July, seven months. What's the reality of being the mayor? What is the difference between the rhetoric. of running for mayor and the reality of governing as mayor? ZOHRAN MAMDANI: There's often a lot made of a campaign,

as if it is easier and a governing as. if it is a harder experience. JON STEWART: Yes. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I think both are challenging. I think what is lost, though, is. that governing comes with the opportunity to deliver. When you're campaigning, you're asking people to believe. You're asking them to put their trust into a politics that's. often disappointed them. And when you're governing, you can earn their trust. by what you deliver. And so, it is much easier to have a conversation about this. vision today, when we've been able to pave 175,000 potholes,

put the city on a path to universal child care, win more than $60 million for tenants. whose landlords made negligence into a business model. When we have that conversation now, you can point to what these last six. months have looked like under Democratic. socialist principles. When you have it during the campaign--. JON STEWART: Sir, we're being recorded right now. What are you doing? ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I apologize. JON STEWART: You're throwing in the S word? ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I didn't mean to use a slur. JON STEWART: Don't throw in the S word. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I didn't mean to use. a slur live on this podcast. JON STEWART: Son of a--. what?

ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I just wanted to make sure. that we're going to be together in the cell. when we're all rounded up. JON STEWART: All right, fair enough. So that's the interesting thing, there's a caricature of Democratic socialism, and there's a reality of Democratic socialism, and then there is just governing. that has very little to do with Democratic socialism. So can we tease those apart a little bit? In your mind, what is governing by the principles. of Democratic socialism? What does that entail? ZOHRAN MAMDANI: It means making the choice every day.

to fight for working people. It means that you believe that everyone in your city. deserves to live a dignified life, no matter how. much money is in their pocket. And what we've found is that this city. is many things all at once. It's both the wealthiest city and the wealthiest country. in the history of the world, and it's. also a city where one in four people are living in poverty. And so, you'll often hear the phrase, don't sweat the small stuff. To me, being a Democratic socialist. is also sweating the small stuff, because for a lot of New Yorkers, it's those things that are the measure of how.

difficult or easy their life is, whether they're able not. only to pay for their rent or their childcare, but whether they're able to also rely on city government. to get around their city, to breathe in their city, to experience life in their city. And I think that we've forgotten. that, at the heart of what we want to deliver, is not just the existence of a public sector, it's also the excellence and efficiency of a public sector. I want New Yorkers to be choosing this city government.

every single day, as opposed to feeling. as if they're subjected to it. JON STEWART: To me, though, that statement, if a Democrat was running, or even a Republican, to some extent, that feels like something that everybody. would say, we want everybody be able to thrive in this city. Is there something about Democratic socialism. as a theory that brings those to bear? In other words, is it about the safety net? Is it about-- you know, the caricature.

is, you're a Communist who's going. to nationalize the industries. You're going to take over Goldman Sachs. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I'm actually coming on this podcast. to let you know that it's now my podcast. JON STEWART: Wait, what? [LAUGHING]. Here's the thing. Here's what I love about that, you walk the walk. That's the important thing. Somebody had to seize the means of this production. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: And it was this specific production. that I was talking about. JON STEWART: Wait, I'm doing this in Jersey. I'm out of your jurisdiction, man. I'm not even around there. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: You were doing this in Jersey.

JON STEWART: Wait, you're moving me? ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I'm moving you. [LAUGHING]. JON STEWART: Damn you, Stalin. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I think that to your point, there are a lot of politicians of a variety of ideologies who. will speak about housing is a human, for example, or health is a human right, or they'll talk about dignity. I think that where the rubber meets the road is, are you actually willing to ensure that that which. no one should be priced out of, no one. is, in fact, priced out of it?

So I'll give you an example. JON STEWART: OK. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: Childcare. It's hard to find a politician who'll say childcare. should be more expensive. [LAUGHING]. They'll generally say-- they'll generally say, it should be more affordable, right? JON STEWART: Right, right. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: But are you willing. to take the step to provide childcare as something that. is guaranteed to New Yorkers, regardless of how much money. they have in their pocket? So one of our focuses has been universal childcare, right? Take the successes of free childcare. for three-year-olds, of pre-K, and extend it to two-year-olds.

Now, it's not just as simple as saying, oh, yes, I want to do that. You have to also be willing to fight for the revenue. you need to do that. And so, day eight of our administration, we. secure an agreement with the governor for $1.2 billion. that unlocks free childcare for two-year-olds. for the first time in New York City. And our dream is that this will extend not only to the 2,000. two-year-olds this year or the 12,000 next year, but every single two-year-old by the end of four years. And it's not just a dream, it's a promise,

and it's a commitment. JON STEWART: So in some respects, is it about the priorities that you. have are about quality of life for those, even if they don't make? Because universal pre-K or universal child care or those. kinds of things, you know, de Blasio. might have brought that up, or it's not something that--. I think that the caricature of Democratic socialism. is that you're a different-- it's.

a completely different ideology than those that we have seen. Or is it, perhaps, just a different. nomenclature than we've seen? ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I think part of it. is that words have lost their meaning over time. JON STEWART: There we go. This is where I'm getting to is, is it really. about the labels, is my point. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I think if you go back. to some of the Democrats that we most admire, FDR, LaGuardia, you will see a lot. of Democratic socialist principles and their vision.

And if you think about a lot of what we've come to accept. as just the facts of life across our country, a lot of it. is also still driven by Democratic. socialist principles. Now, if today, you and I were to introduce. the idea of a building that lends out books for free, we would be slandered in the same way. that so many new ideas are slandered today. And yet, that's the library, and the same thing. with the fire department, and the same thing. with public schools. And it's to say that a lot of politics. has been a debate about who deserves what.

And I would prefer a politics that debates how we can deliver. that to everyone and to deliver it at a standard that. is so good, that no matter how much money in your pocket, you opt for that. And I think at its best, the New York City subway. is an illustration, where no matter how much money you have. in your pocket, you understand that if you want. to get from point A to point B, best. way is to get on that train. JON STEWART: That's for sure.

So to that end, was there ever a consideration. for you because of the priorities that you have? Why take on the label of Democratic socialist, knowing that it comes with a lot of other baggage that may. not be helpful to you in your pursuit of what are--. what was it about what they were saying that drew you, as opposed to running as-- the things that. you're suggesting to me, if you ran on these as a Democrat,

it's not--. I wouldn't say, like, what? What the heck? [LAUGHING]. You know, it sounds very much in line with that. It sounds like what you're doing differently. is you're being competent or ruthlessly pursuing those goals. and chipping away at them. So why take that on? ZOHRAN MAMDANI: You know, I want to be honest with people. about what it is that I actually believe in, and I also think what we've seen over many decades.

is a fear mongering in our politics, where anything that we disagree with. or anything that portends significant change. is described as if it is socialist, you know, at times as if it is Communist. And the intent of that is to end the conversation there. and then, and it especially happens when you're talking. about something that would disproportionately. benefit working people. And I think it's important, because we keep speaking. about some of the inequities and inequalities. that we see in our city, as if they are bugs in a system,

as opposed to features in them. And if we truly want to reckon with one in four New Yorkers. being in poverty, we have to also ask ourselves about. if it's important to change the framework with which. what we determine success to be. And also, being a Muslim Democratic socialist, I thought it would be pretty straightforward. [LAUGHING]. JON STEWART: You just thought, like, well, what if I label myself something. that scares people the most? I'm a Muslim Democratic socialist.

ZOHRAN MAMDANI: If you scare them, you scare them twice. JON STEWART: And I'd like to run your public transportation. system. [LAUGHING]. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: Yeah. JON STEWART: So in some regard, is the idea being, if I can show myself to be a competent steward. of the day-to-day functioning of certainly one of the most. complex city systems in the world, I can demystify,

I can take these labels that are so loaded with fear, and I can maybe take a little bit of that. caricature out of them? ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I mean, my true goal is to deliver. for the people of the city. And if in the process of doing so, we can demystify so much of the fear that has become the norm. in our politics, I welcome it. And I also think that for a long time,

we've discussed Democratic socialism. as an intellectual debate. We haven't been able to point to what. examples look like of it delivering for people. JON STEWART: Right. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: And now, we have that just over six months. And I think that it's an incredibly exciting. opportunity, because there's a reason so many New Yorkers lost. faith in city government and the political impulse. of lecturing someone as to why they should believe. and why they should vote, as opposed. to asking yourself, why is it that they lost that faith?

When you're governing, you have the opportunity. to not just listen, but also then respond. in action, not in words. And I think that what's been so exciting. is to see that New Yorkers understand. that some things will take time and some things. that can be done immediately. And if you're able to show that you're doing both, then it is exactly the kind of extension of an arm to say, would you like to join this movement? And I've just heard from so many that they would. [MUSIC PLAYING].

JON STEWART: Ground News is what it's about. You know what? I used to sometimes think that you guys are my best friend, but I think Ground News might be my best friend. I think I want to get a rental at the Jersey Shore. with Ground News, have, like, a barbecue. Ground News is a website and an app, because this. is America in the 2020s. You got to have an app, and it helps you better understand. the news you consume. With Ground News, you can see who owns every news outlet,

and you compare how these different outlets frame. their stories, compare news coverage of a story, see how the same events painted across different news outlets, and why the headlines differ. You got to understand who owns it to understand. the editorial priorities. They got a blind spot feed. It helps you find stories that aren't. being covered by your side. The Nobel Peace Center called it. an excellent way to stay informed. and expand your worldview. And the FIFA Peace Center, well, they didn't weigh in yet, but they will. That's also a very big peace center.

To get the same unlimited access to the Vantage. subscription, go to groundnews.com/stewart, and subscribe to get 40% off. I've partnered with Ground News to get. you the discount that is available only. for a limited time. That's groundnews.com/stewart, or scan the QR code on screen. Thank you to Ground News for sponsoring this episode. [MUSIC PLAYING]. It's such an interesting thing, because when you talk. about the demonization, you know, I always think people always say, oh, that's anti-capitalist.

And in some respects, I think it's the opposite. You know, capitalism, I think, would have faced a much stiffer. opposition from communism and socialism in the 1930s, if the New Deal hadn't been instituted. If we hadn't had created a more robust social safety net, revolution would have been much more on the table. without Social Security, without better. housing for people.

And I wonder if that's similar today, that in some respects, what you're doing. is actually a reform movement for capitalism to some extent. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I mean, some of the things that you've said, Social Security, if you go back and see how that was treated. when it was first introduced, it. was described as the sovietization of America. JON STEWART: Medicare. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: And now, it is thought of as one. of the most American things that we. could ever be talking about. JON STEWART: That's right. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: And I think about, you know, when you go around New York City,

and you see these monuments to FDR, to the New Deal, you know, you go to Four Freedoms Park on Roosevelt. Island, it is a sad reflection of the state. of the Democratic Party, that a lot of what. is said in those programs and those visions today. would sound as if it is a bridge too. ambitious for the party that we belong to. And I think that's part of my hope. as a Democrat is, how do we ensure that New Yorkers.

and Americans don't have to look to the history books. to be able to find a party platform. that speaks about a freedom from want. and a freedom from fear? JON STEWART: I think it's a question of also. how you're going to get there. Because I think, if I may, and you tell me if you think this. is wrong, as I watch you pursuing your agenda, it doesn't seem radical. It seems workmanlike.

You know, when you talked about the universal child care, you didn't seize the means of childcare. and create a Soviet style system, where they all. get the same little uniform, and they all. come in at four-years-old, and they. pray to the gods of socialism. You didn't even really raise taxes. You went to the governor, and she. was able to help fill in a little bit. of the financial gap.

You created a Pied a Terre tax for second homes of the over $5. million in value. Is that correct? Like, these are not particularly. radical reinventions. It feels like smart prioritizing, if I may. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: Well, I think that a lot of it. comes back to, how do you judge the success of your work? And I think you have to judge it by what you deliver. And one of the cornerstones of our campaign.

was universal child care, given the fact. that in a cost of living crisis, child care is the second highest expense. for families in New York City. We're talking about $20,000 a year for a single child, and in this city, you have to make. $334,000 to be able to afford that kind of expense. And to me, it is, how do we move as quickly as possible? JON STEWART: Is that all over this city,

or does that vary in Boroughs, or that's the average. for all five boroughs? ZOHRAN MAMDANI: That's the measure. across the five Boroughs. That's how much your family would. have to earn to be able to absorb that kind of a hit. And people earn less than that, and they find ways. to make it work, but not without it. being to the detriment of themselves. and their financial situation. JON STEWART: Right. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: And I think that-- you know, I never. thought that I'd be the guy making it. easier for aunties at the family function. to pressure you into having a kid. But here we are. [LAUGHING].

JON STEWART: So in some respects, Zohran Mamdani's mayoralty has been an aphrodisiac. for New Yorkers to begin to repopulate. this grand experiment. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I can see the attack ads now. JON STEWART: Exactly. Zohran Mamdani, the aphrodisiac. So what about what you're trying. to deliver has been slightly more complicated than what. you thought it would be? You know, we can walk through it. Housing, so you were able to get through a rent freeze,

a two-year rent freeze, yes? ZOHRAN MAMDANI: Yeah, the Independent Rent Guidelines. Board established a two-year rent freeze. for over two million New Yorkers. who live in rent stabilized housing. JON STEWART: Right. And again, when people immediately cried communism, it's not unprecedented. The two years is unprecedented, but this has been done. for one year by other mayors. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: Yeah, they have done it in the past, yeah. JON STEWART: What about in terms of housing? What have you been able to deliver? What's frustrated you?

What's the next step? ZOHRAN MAMDANI: Well, I think I'll just take a step back. to tell you, Jon, that the most challenging thing overall. was when I came into this position, I expected that it would be difficult in terms. of the finances of the city, especially. given my predecessor's approach to those finances. What I did not expect was $12 billion worth of difficulty. JON STEWART: Right, but you're the fiscal conservative. Like, even with the city council,

you've got, what is her name, Menin? ZOHRAN MAMDANI: Julie Menin, Speaker Julie Menin. JON STEWART: Julie Menin, Upper East Side, wealthy Upper East Side lady. We all know the caricature. You know, they don't pick up after their dogs. You know what I'm talking about. You're the fiscal conservative in that relationship. Did that surprise you? ZOHRAN MAMDANI: You know, it is-- when I've talked. about wanting city government to be remade. in the image of a struggling New Yorker, one aspect of it.

is that we be as careful with our money as working. New Yorkers are with theirs. And one of the many reasons for that. is that this is their money, and when we're looking. at-- when we looked at that fiscal deficit, what was hard--. one of the many things that was challenging about it. is that you couldn't blame it on an external reality. You couldn't say, oh, it's the fiscal crisis of 2008, everyone can see what's going on across the country. and the world. This was, in many ways, purely of City Hall's doing.

It was mismanagement and under-budgeting, and it had been building for years. And I think that one of my goals. is, how do we right the ship, not just. in a 12 month interval, but frankly, on a medium and a long-term? Because if you're just trying to survive on a calendar year. basis, you're, in many ways, going. to have to rob Peter to pay Paul, and eventually, that bill's going to come due. And the thing that I'm looking forward to next year. is that we're not going to have to inherit a $12 billion.

fiscal deficit, no matter how tough it is. JON STEWART: Right, right, although that's-- what do you. do with-- you know, there are certain things that-- you know, they sort of call them gimmicks, as you. start to balance the budget. And a lot of the mayors have done that. They're sort of these things that they pass along to other. I think Bloomberg was one of the ones who did it. How does straightening out that without pulling. from different pension funds that are going to mature. in 2032, how do you begin to straighten those finances out.

without having to use kinds of-- you know, in some ways, it's like you're the GM of a football team. that's got a salary cap. You don't want to go into that second apron. for New York City, man. And so, how do you begin to do that. in a manner that is more objectively grounded and not. really budgetary magic?

ZOHRAN MAMDANI: Well, first, you brought it up. So I just got to say, I'm already missing Mitch. JON STEWART: That's very hurtful. That's very hurtful. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: We'll continue on. Did you see his comment on the Boston Celtics Instagram page? JON STEWART: Well, no. Oh, when he went after the Celtics fans, when he said, I own you? [LAUGHING]. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: Yeah, it's like, God bless. JON STEWART: Can I tell you something? There is a monster truck-sized hole in my heart.

[LAUGHING]. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: Yes, it's one of the best TikTok pages. to go to. JON STEWART: He's the best. So, so funny. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I never appreciated those cars, until I saw those videos. JON STEWART: I know, seeing him stand by. I think that was his truck in the parade, by the way. I don't even think that was--. I think that was, actually, he just drove. He drove there that day and just got in the back of it. I think that's how it worked. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: God bless. JON STEWART: Yeah. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: But to your actual question, I think one of the key things is you have to ask yourself, is this arbitrary, or does this have a rationale?

JON STEWART: OK. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: And what I mean by that is, for example, with the pension system, we had a deferred payment. that was spread out over about 22 years or so. And every year, the cost to the city was increasing, and then it was going to just fall off a cliff. In terms of the city, it was going. to go up about maybe $6 billion a year, and then the next year, it was going to be $0. And some of the challenges that we're facing. are challenges of this moment, specifically because of just.

how much under-budgeting there was, how much money the city. was spending, but not showing on its books. for a lot of its different social programs and services. And so, when we looked at that, we. said, if you just spread what had already been 22 years, if you just extend it by a few years, you would then be able to take savings that you will. get the year after as you're scheduled to, but instead spread them over. Then you can actually make sure that you're. able to steward this in a way that's more healthy in a medium. term level. Now, I know that there are others who have seen.

municipalities move around their pension obligations, and there's a worry of what does this mean for-- you know, are you going to honor that, this, that, and the other? The thing that's different in New York City. is that we are not only funding our pension systems at a much. higher level than many of the other municipalities that are. being cited, but also that it's not a question of if we're. going to get to 100% funded. It's just a question of when, in the 2030s, we would do so. JON STEWART: And then, did you have to look at it? Because, I guess, there's sort of different areas, like we'll spend less here, but we need.

to raise more revenue here. Is there a kind of interplay between the kinds of taxes? Because Albany, I imagine, is not. going to go along with, really, raising taxes in the same way. that you might want to. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I think what you'll find actually, is there. are a lot of people in Albany who. do agree with the vision of raising taxes a little bit more. on the wealthiest, so that everyone can. afford life in New York City. But what it is, as you said, is it can't just be one thing. It has to both be a conversation about revenue.

and a conversation about savings. So we actually created something called Chief Savings. Officers for the first time, where. we had an every single agency and department. JON STEWART: Oh, sure, CSOs. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: CSOs. JON STEWART: Come on. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: CSOs. JON STEWART: Sitting right there. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: You're at the cooler. You know, you're talking to your friend. You're like, hey, have you heard about the CSOs? What do you think about CSOs? JON STEWART: Hey, do you know the CSOs coming in here? You got, like, five CSOs over here. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: Me and my CSOs were hanging out, catching up. JON STEWART: Beautiful, beautiful. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: You know? And the CSOs, they found about $1.7 billion.

in savings across city government. JON STEWART: Nice. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: And they're actually. going to continue that work. JON STEWART: Right. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: Because when you look. at the size of our budget, and you also. look at what the approach has been. to the finances of our city, we know that there. are more savings to be had. And sometimes, these are the efficiencies. that come from when you're actually pressure testing. how we've been doing things. There are savings to be had, when you actually say that, could that contract that you're giving to a consultant actually.

be done in-house? JON STEWART: Right. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: And it can be a lot of times. JON STEWART: Were there stuff in the budget, as you went through, that you're like, $100 million. on mittens? What is this like? [LAUGHING]. Like, did you find things that you couldn't believe? You were just like, where's these love seats? What's going on? ZOHRAN MAMDANI: Yes. [LAUGHING]. I haven't seen that specific example. JON STEWART: You don't comb it through like that? It's not--. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: We do comb through, and there were a number of things, where you can't provide. a justification for it.

And if you can't provide one, then why should the city. be spending that money? A lot of times, it comes from a vision of government, where you want to hollow out its capacity--. JON STEWART: Right. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: --and privatize as much of its responsibility. And oftentimes, it's done in the name of fiscal prudence. And yet, what you find is you end up. overpaying for that extra capacity. than what it would look like if you invested internally. I mean, we've talked about, in the past, the previous administration had an AI chatbot that. cost hundreds of thousands of dollars,

that was not even usable. JON STEWART: Was this like the Microsoft. paperclip that just pops up? What can I do for you today? ZOHRAN MAMDANI: It's like, I thought you lost your job. It's just ask Jeeves. He's just back. JON STEWART: Right. That's all they do is they just run it through that. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: And you look at that, and it's not just the amount of money, it's also the number of vendors that we went. through to get to that point. It just speaks to an approach to contracting that does not. actually save you money, and it doesn't build.

any kind of long-term fluency. What it does is just lock you into commitments that. will cost you money and oftentimes won't. even perform those services. [MUSIC PLAYING]. JON STEWART: I don't know if you know this about me, but my summer wardrobe is-- and I've taken. to this for many years now, I wear. only 19th century swimwear. That is, I wear woolen one piece unitard bathing suits,

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Go to quince.com/gws for free shipping on your order. and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com/tws for free shipping and 365. day returns, quince.com/tws. [MUSIC PLAYING]. The contrast between the caricature of you, if you spend any time speaking to you,

there's a grounded seriousness and reality to the way. that you're approaching these problems. Look, there's going to be mistakes. There's going to be-- the first snowstorm is not going. to be the same as the second snowstorm, as Fat Joe has in his song. Today's snowstorm is not tomorrow, but--. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: That was the first draft of that. JON STEWART: That was the first draft of that song, but the caricature-- so Trump will tweet out, "Communist lunatic.". And are there criticisms that bother you?

Are the ones you laughed off? You know, the city tweeted out during the heat wave, "Put your thermostats to 78.". And immediately, Ted Cruz from Texas is like, "Soc, the warmth of collectivism.". Meanwhile, Texas tweets out the same thing, and so does the Energy Department of the United States. of America, which they pull off of their website out of fear. that, now, they will be associated with this. Do any of those criticisms permeate? Do any of them land?

Have you heard any of the criticisms, where you thought. to yourself, actually, that's constructive, and I will think about how to make adjustments. to that, any of that? ZOHRAN MAMDANI: Look, I took offense. when they came for socialist icon. Rudy Giuliani's energy policy. [LAUGHING]. I said, say what you want about me, but--. JON STEWART: Yeah, no, you know what? Nobody puts Rudy in a corner. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: Let's not go there. JON STEWART: Let's not. Let's not.

ZOHRAN MAMDANI: But I think it is easy. when there is this much noise to tell yourself that all of it. is exactly that. Tune it all out, but that's also what--. it will leave you in an echo chamber. You cannot have it, that you are only surrounded. by people who agree with you. You might as well just stay home at that point. And I think that the job that I have, that my team has, that our administration has, is how do you listen to all of it, and then separate out what is actually worth engaging with.

and what is just driven by the algorithm. and written in response to what the algorithm. responds to and rewards. And I think that the other part of this. is no matter how good we may feel about whatever achievement. we have or how this six months has gone, you always have. to push yourself, because every day is an opportunity. to do better for New Yorkers. And I think that's something that I love about this city, is you especially see it in kind of sports culture.

But I would say, even in the cultural aspect of the city, there is this sense of having to be the best, of driving yourself-- JON STEWART: Sure. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: --each and every day. And yet, in our politics, that often feels as if it's missing. Somehow in a city that is the best in the world at so many. things, mediocrity has come to be accepted as the standard. in our politics. And I think that it's something that we. shouldn't accept any longer. JON STEWART: And it was one of the things that, I think,

drew people to you, if I may. It didn't just feel like platitudes. There was a specificity to the affordability argument. You know, I see a lot of politicians, that they perform the rhetoric of that argument. We need to get back to kitchen table issues and all that, rather than going out to a halal food truck. and go, why is this $14? There's, like, three pieces of chicken in here. It's like, why does that cost that way? You know, is affordability the toughest challenge.

that you think you'll face? ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I think so. JON STEWART: And could this still be a middle class city? ZOHRAN MAMDANI: That is what it has to be. And I think if we allow it to continue on the path it's been. for many years, it will become a museum of where working. class people once lived. And we don't want this to be something. that people can visit to pay tribute to what it once was. We want it to be a living, breathing.

testament to that energy. And I think what is one of the most concerning things that I. hear is when I turn to someone who is working as hard as they. can for this city, and I ask them how long their commute. home is, and they tell me, it's hours, because they're going to another state or another city. That's a reflection of a failure. to ensure that those who build the city can live in the city. And the reason, I think, that affordability will. be our greatest challenge, and also our greatest opportunity,

is this is what is pushing people out of this city. You cannot disentangle the cost of housing, of childcare, of groceries from the exodus of working class. people from out of this city. Some of these things are New York City specific. Some of them are true across the entire country, and we have to finally change direction, so that people can actually afford to live here. JON STEWART: See, that, I think, is--. [COUGHING]. It brings up such an interesting point. Don't get sick. I don't know what they're doing.

Get this man some Purell, and you do not get sick, brother. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: No, I'm on that Emergen-C every day. I take that. I take that vitamin C. JON STEWART: You're shaking too many hands. I see it every day. But, you know, the big talking point is, my God, this Communist lunatic is going to drive out our billionaires, as though that is the reason that people are drawn to New. York, that tourists come here and go, let's.

go down to little billionaire. It's the area of New York, where the billionaires live, and we can enjoy a small slice of how they live. But the real danger to New York is not. the couple of billionaires who feel as though taxing. their second home is too burdensome for that, but the exodus of essential workers. who can no longer afford to be anywhere near this area. Wouldn't that be much more devastating? ZOHRAN MAMDANI: What you're saying speaks to the fact.

that for all of the conversation. about an imagined capital flight, there already is a flight. It's just of working class people, and we know that the racial dynamics of this. are also immense. We've seen, over the past few decades, our city has lost. 200,000 Black New Yorkers. From 2010 to 2019, the population of Black children. and teenagers declined by 19%, and you. can feel that in this city, in neighborhoods that are shells.

of what they once were and small businesses that don't. have those same customers coming through that. came in for years, and classrooms. that are a little less full. If we want to be honest about what it's going to take, it's not just going to be one day to the next. It's also going to have to be a complete shift. I mean, I'll give you an example of this. When we talk about housing, since the early 1960s, New York City started to make decisions that would render it. unable to build the level of housing it needed. to, to keep up with demand. JON STEWART: What were those?

Are those zoning decisions? ZOHRAN MAMDANI: A lot of those are zoning decisions. JON STEWART: I see. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: They're decisions. around capacity and also around size of buildings, scale of building. And you'll walk around the city, you'll see buildings that are incredible, that we. associate with our city. Yet, you could not build them today, because they were built prior to those zoning changes. having happened. JON STEWART: Right. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: And one of the critical things. here is we have to treat the cost. of living crisis as both a short-term crisis. and a long-term crisis. We have to take immediate action,

and then we have to do the long-term work. of being able to build 200,000 new affordable. homes over 10 years. Because if you do not have a city that is growing, a city that is building, then what you have. is a city that is dying. JON STEWART: And it's difficult, because here's-- now, here's your dilemma. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: Hit me. JON STEWART: You make this place too nice, then rents are really going to-- then the whole--. because you are, you're in a vicious cycle. In some respect, look, we joke about it, but there are a lot of people in Brooklyn that are resentful. As Brooklyn started to change and develop,

it gentrified, and suddenly, the people. that lived in Brooklyn, as my family did when they came here, couldn't afford to live there anymore. It's as though, when they, finally, came in and made. the neighborhoods more livable, that drove out the people. that had been living there. And I imagine that's a difficult problem. to solve as well. It's this strange trap. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: And I think anyone growing up in this city. has gone through the experience of looking at a construction. site in their neighborhood and asking themselves,

is this for me, or is this going to push me out? And one of the key things here is. that we have to both build more housing than we've ever seen. in our city in a long time, and do it while strengthening. the tenant protections that we have in this city, so that we're not forced to choose. between the tenants of today and the tenants of tomorrow. And I think to what you said, there are a lot of New Yorkers. who rightfully associate even just investments. in their own neighborhood, as if it is. the appetizer to displacement.

JON STEWART: Right. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: And we have to show that these things are not, in fact, tied together, that you do not need new residents. to invest in that old park. You can do that. And I think when we go back to this conversation. around the fiscal deficit of the $12 billion, there is-- in that moment, it is all too easy to say, my only focus right now is to get out of this fiscal crisis, and then everything else, we'll figure it out next year. We wanted to also use it as an opportunity to show that we. mean what we say, that you do want to still fund your parks,

your libraries, your cultural institutions, and do. it in a way that annualizes that funding, as opposed. to making it subject to every single year's budget. dance with the city council. And that's also, to me, what is a critical part of earning. those New Yorkers trust back, is. that they see those investments in their neighborhood, and they see it before anyone's ever going to talk to them, that you may have to leave. We want them to stay. JON STEWART: And sometimes, it's the small--.

I tell you, this seems like a ridiculous thing. One of the most important things you did. was getting people to take some of that scaffolding down. Like, it's things that you do. Like, the scaffolding is so a part of the landscape, that I almost thought of it as like, oh, that's how buildings are--. like, they're built, and people just hang. scaffolding like Christmas lights, and just never take them down. Like, that's just a crazy, weird thing. And when you start taking them down, you're like, oh, wow. New York's beautiful. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: Yeah, we treated.

it as if it was part of the physical landscape of the city. JON STEWART: Right. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: So much of what the approach has been. it is what it is, this is how it's always been, and that's just not acceptable. And I think to your point, when you. are able to change these kinds of ways. that New Yorkers measure their quality of life, it gives them--. it's an invitation to them to hope and believe. But if you don't change those things, then why should.

they take that step? JON STEWART: And so, getting back to the original, that idea. of redefining what Democratic socialism can do for a city. this complex and this size and the realism that has to go. along with it and the budgetary, you know, restrictions and things that you have to get there, do you, in any way, have that conversation with--. so now, Democratic socialism is considered the hottest. trend in the Democratic Party.

And there's energy, grassroots energy and all, and these Democratic socialist candidates are popping up, and you're having to answer for every one. of their policy positions. And there are some-- look, maybe. I'm an old man or a shitlib or whatever they want to call. me, but--. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: Who's calling you this? JON STEWART: If someone says, we're going to abolish. all prisons and borders, like I do go, I don't think that's a good idea. Like, it feels like order and security. is also a progressive value. Why shouldn't people in neighborhoods with less.

resources have the same safety and security that neighborhoods. with lots of resources? And so, are there tenets of those. that are kind of following in the wake of Zohran Mamdani's. success, that you're not comfortable with. or that give you pause? ZOHRAN MAMDANI: If you have more than one socialist. in a room, and there isn't disagreement, then you don't have more than one socialist in a room. [LAUGHING] And, and--. JON STEWART: Are you allowed to have more than one. socialist in the room?

ZOHRAN MAMDANI: We're actually just trying to change that law. We were trying to get it to 2. JON STEWART: It's sort of like how soccer used to be. in the NASL, in the '80s. There had to be two Americans on every team. So there's got to be-- there's got to be. two socialists in every room. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: Well, look, man, now we have quarters, and I didn't think that day was going. to come with the World Cup. JON STEWART: That's what I'm talking about, but you're comfortable with those kinds of discussions? ZOHRAN MAMDANI: Well, I'm comfortable with disagreement, and I'm comfortable with disagreement that doesn't. end the conversation entirely. Because I think what motivates a lot of people is,

how do you deliver public safety? And the thing that I've said, time and again, is we cannot have New Yorkers choose. between safety and Justice. And yes, I am doing the work with our police department, and we have been able to deliver. the lowest number of murders and shootings. in recorded history. And at the same time, I'm doing the work. to close down Rikers Island and ensure that we are actually. building the four smaller borough-based jails, that. brings an end to a horrible chapter.

in New York City history. And I think, to your point, you know, when we're thinking about safety, there cannot be a hierarchy of safety, where you experience it more or less, depending on where you live in our city or how. much money is in your pocket. And there also can't be a definition of safety. that is purely after the fact, meaning that how. you respond to violence. We also have to do the work of investing, so that we prevent violence. JON STEWART: To that point, the Department of Community Safety, which is one of those things that you had ran on,

which I think was sort of reprioritizing some. of those assets, so that not necessarily. it was always police were the first responders to everything. There was also a social. How has that come? I know the money for it didn't exist. You had to do an executive order, I believe. What's the status of that? How has that grown? ZOHRAN MAMDANI: So we've created that Office. of Community Safety. We have, for the first time in New York City, now a Deputy Mayor for Community Safety, Rita. Francois, who's doing great work in putting together what.

is right now a quarter of a billion dollar budget. in a lot of the very kinds of things. that you're talking about. And I think one of the clearest examples, to me, is we have asked police officers to do almost. everything we can think of when it comes to dealing. with the failures of not just the social safety net, but also violent crime and also and also and also. across the five Boroughs. And what we found, time and again, is that these same officers who signed up. to join the Department, to respond to violent crime,

to prevent violent crime, are also. being tasked with responding to a mental health call. And this is the kind of work that undermines both. our ability to deliver on public safety as a whole, and it shows that we need to develop a new model here. And so, one of the focuses coming out. of the Office of Community Safety. is, how do we provide the investment and the support, so that when a New Yorker calls for help with a mental health. crisis, that they can also receive.

that help from mental health professionals as well? And that's something that continues. alongside the incredible work that the office is doing. with gun violence prevention, which is work that we always. need to do more and more of, because we. know it's an epidemic in this city and across this country. And a lot of that prevention work. also comes with investing in gun violence interrupters, in the crisis management system. And I've had the privilege of meeting. a number of young people who themselves have been victims.

of gun violence, and they've told me how organizations, like the ones that New York City invests in, are the ones that will respond to them in the moment. and make sure that retaliation isn't something they're. thinking about, but rather recuperation. is what they're focused on. JON STEWART: Right. So there's a wide variety of interdictions. that you can do in those various situations, not just after the fact, make those arrests. So there's a whole cadre of groups that, look, they stood in opposition to you. There was a great amount of fear,

and we can run through them from the police department. I think there was a lot of fear there. And I know, listen, the cops in this city, they do incredible, incredible work, and they don't necessarily get the recognition and the care. I think there was a lot of hostility. to them for a lot of years, and I think that's unfortunate. I think, like you say, that's something. that you have to battle with. There's Trump supporters. You know, New York City has everything.

ZOHRAN MAMDANI: We got it all. JON STEWART: There's the billionaire class. We got it all. What's your outreach like to those communities? What have you learned from those communities? What have you learned from those people? How do you interact with them, and how. do you take in their criticisms of you or their fears? ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I think the first thing you have to do. is walk into those conversations without having. already made a judgment. And when you walk into it with an open mind, then it means that you can actually have a conversation.

and make a decision as to how you feel after you. have that conversation. And I think in a lot of our politics, we label people and then disregard them entirely. We treat them as if they're not even. people worth engaging with. And look, I'll have conversations. with more billionaires that oppose my fiscal policies. than those that don't, but there's. still more things to actually be discussed about with them. And similarly, what I've also found. is to our benefit, the caricature of me.

and what our administration would mean was so immense. When I walk into a room, and I don't immediately. strangle three people that are in front of me, people are taken aback that it might not actually be as bad. JON STEWART: Slightly low bar for a conversation. Now, what about-- did you have caricatures of them? Look, I saw when you tried to go to Staten Island. That was a rough ride, but are there caricatures that you've. had of those folks, that have been shattered when.

you've spent time with them? ZOHRAN MAMDANI: When we talk about Staten Island, you know, what comes to mind for me is when I went there, I was being protested outside by a number of Staten Islanders. who were very supportive of the president, deeply opposed. to me. And then when I went inside the restaurant, there were other Staten Islanders who were very. excited about me coming there. And to me, it also shows me that you. can just paint a broad brush and say, you know what? I'm not going. It's actually funny that you mentioned. it, because right after this, I'm going to Staten Island.

I didn't plan that. JON STEWART: Have a caprese salad for me, my friend. [LAUGHING]. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I got you, brother. JON STEWART: It's a beautiful thing. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: But yes, you grow up in the city, you have caricatures of so many people. JON STEWART: That's right. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: And you have to leave those at the door, and you also have to be willing to move beyond them. And for some of those conversations. to be actually good faith ones, to offer people the ability. to critique, to you, and I think sometimes, when you're. the mayor or you're in a position of power,

you want people to just tell you, oh, you're incredible. Here's what I love most about your agenda. It's like, you're not actually going. to get anything done if that's how you want to be treated. JON STEWART: We do have some leaders in this country who. appreciate that work, and I'm cognizant of your time, and I really appreciate you spending here. So the final question, which I have to ask you, because it's dominating the news today, and the question to you is, the Netanyahu thing. and arresting Netanyahu, understanding where. you're coming from there. Is there a sense you have that maybe--.

is that a distraction from all these other things. that you want to do? Is that taking a little bit more of the media space. than you realized? ZOHRAN MAMDANI: Well, I think I have a responsibility. to be honest with New Yorkers, and when I'm asked a question, to answer it honestly. JON STEWART: So that was brought up to you. That was brought up to you. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: Yes, yes. And yet, I know for many New Yorkers, when they see a clip, it doesn't begin with the question, it begins with the answer. JON STEWART: Right. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: And I think the focus always. has to be on the work that you're doing. and how you find a balance between not giving kind.

of a classic, a political deflection, where you don't want to answer any of those questions. and focusing on the work and still finding that together. JON STEWART: And are there any other leaders that you. would also like to arrest? Because I have a list. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: Anybody who the ICC has called for, I think, we should be honoring. JON STEWART: All right, seven or eight. All right, very, very good. Mr. Mayor, thanks so much for joining us, and keep going, and we'll check back in every six to seven--.

every Knicks championship, you'll come on this show. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: See you next year. [LAUGHING]. JON STEWART: Fantastic. Enjoy Staten Island. Have a great day. ZOHRAN MAMDANI: Thank you, my friend. Thank you, guys. [MUSIC PLAYING]. JON STEWART: Oh, folks, it's back. It's Bombas. You know I love the Bombas. Because let me tell you something about my feet, I'm a delicate flower when it comes to my feet. My feet have to be ensconced in luscious fabrics.

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BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: He said he's on minoxidil. GILLIAN SPEAR: He did? JON STEWART: Is that really true? BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: He did. GILLIAN SPEAR: Wow, OK. That's some radical transparency. JON STEWART: What? Is that something that--. what? Would that work? Should-- Jesus, is that what can--. wait, what have I been doing wrong? BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Youth, baby. Youth. JON STEWART: I've been on smoke and carousing. This is--. GILLIAN SPEAR: Crazy that that doesn't work. Somebody should-- yeah, somebody's. got to publicize that. JON STEWART: It's so interesting to me.

And I would imagine he, somewhat like Obama was, that is very effective in diffusing the caricature. Because when you do talk to him, it's very clear. his focus is very grounded in the brass tacks. of the logistics of how he's going to do this shit, and not necessarily the broad strokes of we. must take over, first, the means of production. Like, he's literally like, there's this fund.

And so, what we do is we defer the annum of the fund to 35, and then we can fund the--. like, it's very serious. GILLIAN SPEAR: I mean, weirdly, the AC thing, for as stupid. as it was, is just a great example of that, where. he's like, set your ACs to 78. And then they have a full blown panic. Call it socialism, call it communism, and he's like, set your ACs to 78. [LAUGHING]. Just do it. I don't know what to tell you.

JON STEWART: Well, the funny thing was, it wasn't even him. Like, it was, like, an auto text. that goes out during heat waves, that had been. going out for, like, a decade. GILLIAN SPEAR: Exactly, yeah. Like, you just end up looking foolish. Like, he's just running the city. JON STEWART: Right. But they make it seem as though he literally was sitting back. there and goes, we must feel this oppressive heat, because the billionaires must understand that the people,

the fever of the-- yeah. GILLIAN SPEAR: It is a huge threat to them. It's like, any thought about collectivism. is a threat to their way of life, you know? They're, like, radical individualists. They think about only themselves, these politicians. And the idea that you might have to suffer a little bit. of warmth, so that everybody else can feel a little cooler, is a threat. JON STEWART: What I don't understand. about it is it's already the dynamic. we have in this country. Now, in the last 50 years, obviously, capital. has been overvalued, and labor has been undervalued,

and that's kind of through policy. That's how this inequality, I think, has been allowed to grow. You don't tax capital the same way you tax labor. You know, salaries are for suckers, as they say. GILLIAN SPEAR: Yeah. JON STEWART: But, you know, it's not as though collectivism. is unheard of. They make it sound like we've all. been living the fountainhead. Like-- GILLIAN SPEAR: Oh, yeah. JON STEWART: It's so fucking weird to me.

And Republicans, "Social Security is sacrosanct, Medicare is sacrosanct.". Well, what do you think those are? That's setting our thermostats to 78 in a heat wave. It's the same fucking thing. GILLIAN SPEAR: And, guess what? People really like them. They're very popular. JON STEWART: Right. GILLIAN SPEAR: People love 78. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Who? GILLIAN SPEAR: 78 is a great temperature. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Who loves 78, Gillian. JON STEWART: 75. if I may say, it's a range. 75 is. GILLIAN SPEAR: 75 is a little more reasonable. Some of us, you know, we might have been futzing.

with the dial a bit, yeah. JON STEWART: Right. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Guys, I'm currently set to 62. [LAUGHING]. JON STEWART: That is not true. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Yeah. JON STEWART: Get out of that house right now! GILLIAN SPEAR: We're going to get the Office of Community. Safety on you, Brittany. JON STEWART: What's about-- listen, I know, like, when you guys are out in the city, do you feel any difference in the management of it right now? Do you feel any-- like, there have been times that I've been. in the city, and I have felt--. like, when I first moved there in '86, '87 and all that,

like it did not feel like a safe place. It did not, and there was a-- in that burst of when they. started busing in a lot of immigrants, that the city was not able to absorb at first, you felt the difference there. How are you guys feeling? GILLIAN SPEAR: Yeah, I mean, I feel very safe. I've felt safe. I've lived in the city for 12 years. You know, I've certainly felt safe, you know, for the majority of that time. JON STEWART: But realistic, everybody.

who lives in New York City feels safe, but have to be realistic. GILLIAN SPEAR: Yeah, like take your headphones out at night, you know, like if you're walking around. We all make those choices. But I think what the mayor's office. is doing so well is, like, communicating. what they're doing. I don't know how much I would be aware of that has changed. in the past six months, if it wasn't. for such an effective media strategy, which is a huge part. of governing effectively. It's like, do your job, do it well, and let people know that you are doing your job well. JON STEWART: Right.

BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: I think he's undeniably. changed the mood slash attitude, like, towards politics overall, which I think. is such a huge win, and like, also just really showing people. that, like, politics doesn't have to be just. business as usual anymore. And it's OK not-- like, he's just--. like, we've talked about this, but the good. vibes he's put back into this city, like the happiness, the joy, it's like--. JON STEWART: It's not meaningless, yeah. It's not meaningless. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: It makes you. excited to be part of a community and be out there.

and celebrate wins and do fun stuff together. So it's--. JON STEWART: He's also-- let's, let's--. I mean, to come in on a Knicks championship. and a World Cup, that is--. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: I know. [LAUGHING]. JON STEWART: That's also timing. There's a certain amount of timing. Like, he could have come in on the 18th Mets collapse. GILLIAN SPEAR: Which he is, like, simultaneously. JON STEWART: Yeah, nobody gives a shit anymore. I don't even-- I watch the Mets now. I'm like, 8-3, it's fine. It doesn't matter. GILLIAN SPEAR: Knicks won.

Yeah, Knick in five, Knicks in five. JON STEWART: Knicks in five. It's fine. Brittany, what do the people want? BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Jon, yes or no, did Joe Biden win the 2020 election? JON STEWART: Uhh, at this time, I'm. not going to be drawn into this kind of conversation, and I defer to my previous statements on the matter. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: It's simple, Jon, yes or no? JON STEWART: Joe Biden was certified--. GILLIAN SPEAR: Yes.

[LAUGHING]. JON STEWART: --in the 2020 election. Joe Biden slept in the house that is traditionally reserved. for the President of the United States, when Joe Biden would, at 3:00 in the morning, ask the chefs who are. on call at that same house to make. him a grilled cheese sandwich. They would do it, thus, reflecting. his certified position at--.

BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: It's so fucking bonkers. JON STEWART: I would like to change my answer. [LAUGHING]. GILLIAN SPEAR: If you woke up from a coma in 2022 and said, Biden is the president, you would be right? JON STEWART: Yes. If someone were to ask the question on Jeopardy, during the years of 2021 to 2024, the president currently certified of the United.

States of America, recognized internationally, the answer would be, who is Joe Robinette Biden. And that is all. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Your time is up. That's it. JON STEWART: Thank you so much. Next question. I yield. I yield my time. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: What the fuck are we doing? Like, it's insane. JON STEWART: And it's all done to just flatter. You know, I don't doubt now that with the ideological heart. hiring there, he does have some true believers who are--.

I mean, there was a guy in Homeland Security who was like, you know, sometimes, I transport. myself into Chick-fil-A's. Like, I'm sure there's, like, lunatics out there. But overwhelmingly, it is a-- you know, there's a thing in football, like sometimes you. see it, if you're watching the film, like, Derrick Henry will be charging down the field with the ball, and he's a giant running back and, like, very difficult to tackle. And you'll see a cornerback kind of come up and, like, do.

a little bit of a shimmy and not really make direct contact, and they always just call it as a cornerback. made a business decision. That was a business decision that was made. These people in these hearings are making business decisions. Their fealty to Trump oftentimes is a business. decision, or it's a building block in their larger project. of reclaiming this country for the heritage Americans. who they think built it.

And that's all it is, and they know it's nonsense. And the way you they know it's nonsense is. all the years they've had to prove it, and they have never once. They can fucking do every-- they. can do any late night presidential address. that they want. But there are places where you can adjudicate, where you can bring your evidence to a place that has. evidentiary standards, and you are allowed to do that,

and they don't. GILLIAN SPEAR: They can't. JON STEWART: They cherry pick, you know, intelligence reports, until they can find the thing, not realizing that the rest of the page debunks it completely. They have no ability. They shoot their own arguments in the dick time after time. after time. But if they really believed it, and if it was really true, we'd know it, because they would have taken it, and they would have given it credence. and credibility by applying actual evidentiary.

standard to it. And they don't. Fuck 'em. GILLIAN SPEAR: Fuck 'em. JON STEWART: Fuck 'em, all right? And I was going to say, feed 'em beans, but no, no beans for them. [LAUGHING]. They don't deserve beans. GILLIAN SPEAR: Yeah, they don't get 'em. JON STEWART: I don't know why I got mad at that. That was, like, a weird--. GILLIAN SPEAR: We should honestly. be pretty mad about that. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: We're all mad. Like, it's pretty fucked up. JON STEWART: I had, like, a weird-- yeah, watching that theater, it's such a weird performance to do.

GILLIAN SPEAR: Like, especially--. I mean, I don't know. Not to get, like, too-- but like, people that are supposed to then take on a position that's. independent of the president, like you think of Kevin. Warsh, the new Fed Chairman, like. you're supposed to not care what. the president thinks, and you care so much about what. the president thinks. You're going against every sense, every bit of common sense in your head to not be able to say. that he fucking lost in 2020, and then we're supposed. to have any faith in this.

It's like that, no, no, no, no, no, he's actually independent. How? JON STEWART: But it is-- you know, in a lot of ways, it's like, in the middle of a job interview, where. national security depends on your competence, where the rule of law depends on your ability to understand. it and execute it. And in the middle of it, they go, and one final question, are Keebler elves real? [LAUGHING]. And you have to go, "Sir, uhh I've seen no evidence.

that they are real or unreal. I do know that cookies are delicious.". [LAUGHING]. Whether or not they are made in trees is not my purview, and I would like--. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: It's so stupid. JON STEWART: That's how ridiculous it all is. GILLIAN SPEAR: These are unserious people. JON STEWART: It dumb. GILLIAN SPEAR: Yes. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: OK. JON STEWART: What else, Brittany? BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Jon, do you think Donald Trump will. write a presidential memoir? JON STEWART: No. [LAUGHING].

I think someone will write a presidential memoir, and it will say, written by Donald Trump. But it will not be written by Donald Trump. GILLIAN SPEAR: Yeah. Do you think Donald Trump will write his name. legibly on a piece of paper? JON STEWART: Yeah, no, I think Donald. Trump will film a presidential movie about his--. I think Donald Trump will do a radio serial on. I think there will be a podcast. There will be a building somewhere in Florida, that will. look like the Legion of Doom. And, you know what?

If I'm Donald Trump, the truth is, if you're Donald Trump, you're hard pressed not to think you are that special boy. GILLIAN SPEAR: Oh, my god. JON STEWART: Because he really has lived this weird life. that lacks accountability, where the rest of us. really are NPCs. They stormed the Capitol. They beat the shit out of police officers. They sprayed them. They hit them with flagpoles, with the Confederate flag. flying off them. And in the next election, he won anyway. He had sex with a porn actress after the birth of his son,

and his wife was like, meh. Like, how could you not live that life? And paid the actor $130,000, and his. lawyer went to jail for it. He was fined. It is, like, at a certain point, it's that M Night Shyamalan movie with Bruce Willis, like invincible, like it's a train wreck. Hey, but my clothes aren't even ripped. Like--. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Yeah. JON STEWART: How do you not come away from that, thinking,

I guess, I am a God. GILLIAN SPEAR: And walks between raindrops. Like, it's-- I don't know. If I was him, I'd think pretty highly of myself as well. JON STEWART: Yeah, maybe not. Not that highly. GILLIAN SPEAR: I'd be hard to think that highly, but--. JON STEWART: Well, no, he's still like--. I think he looks--. I think when he was on stage with those Spanish football. players who had just won the World Cup, and he was standing there, you know, in his looking like a weird door to another dimension,

like he just--. I bet he sat there like, I wonder. if they can tell us apart. GILLIAN SPEAR: We're all fit athletes. JON STEWART: Look at us over here, just 21, 22 super hot guys in the sun, celebrating a big victory, eh? Cha, cha, cha, cha. GILLIAN SPEAR: Doesn't this physical say. he's, like, 210 or something? It's crazy. JON STEWART: Yeah, they showed it once. If you took his stats, like 6'3", 225,

and then they showed, like, I don't know, DK Metcalf, who's, like, known as a complete physical. anomaly of a specimen. And like, that dude's 6'3", 225, and Trump's just, like, with his head slowly sinking into his. shoulders and his front butt slowly consuming his back butt. And you're just like, what? What kind of fairy tale are we fucking living in here? GILLIAN SPEAR: Yeah. JON STEWART: Why? GILLIAN SPEAR: That's the next thing.

that they should ask in the Senate. when they come for their confirmation. hearings, what do you think the president weighs? JON STEWART: That would be hilarious. Well, there's, obviously, muscle and visceral fat. And then, of course, there's bone and hair. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: And the brain, so big. JON STEWART: The weight is most likely. the brain that has taken over. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: OK, last one. JON STEWART: All right. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Crunchy or smooth? JON STEWART: Oh, I mean, I can't even.

imagine that this question made it past our star screeners, that made it past the thing. The idea that you would settle for only one sensation when it. comes to a snack, when you can have two sensations. and the same flavor, I mean, that's-- honestly, why. would you opt for less fun? Like, that, oh, do you want ice cream with whipped cream, uhh, yeah, isn't that more? That's better. Like, crunchy is just better.

Smooth, I don't even understand what the purpose of it. is except for, like, caulking. Like, crunchy, if you're going to have peanut butter, and there's an ability to add a crunch to it--. GILLIAN SPEAR: OK. JON STEWART: And by the way, layer, I'm not done, honey, a banana. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Oh. JON STEWART: Some jam. Like, throw a fucking party. If you're going to have it, have it. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Do it. JON STEWART: And by the way, I apologize if either one of you.

is smooth, and I know I've actually pinned you now down. to a very untenable position. [LAUGHING]. GILLIAN SPEAR: I just thought you--. I thought where you were going with that is to say, like, why limit yourself? Like, you can have either one. But I see what you were saying now, is you can just have one, and it's crunchy. JON STEWART: No, this isn't a question of choice. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Yeah, I don't know how to admit this, but I'm a smooth girl.

JON STEWART: Brittany, how long have we known each other? BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Should I leave? JON STEWART: Many years, and you. know how highly I think of you and how much. I value the work that you do. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Oh, no. JON STEWART: And that's why this is-- it's so hard for me. to have to say. Brittany, I had no idea. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: I know. GILLIAN SPEAR: This whole time, Brittany? This whole time? JON STEWART: Very interesting, though, Brittany. This is an insight, an insight. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: The more you know. [LAUGHING].

JON STEWART: Is it strange that I have, I guess, more emotion in that than when I'm talking. about the Strait of Hormuz? Is that weird? Very nice. Well, how do they keep in touch with us, for God's sakes, for more of these scintillating takes that I have on food? BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Umm, Twitter, we are WeeklyShowPod. Instagram threads, TikTok, Blue Sky, we are WeeklyShowPodcast podcast, and you can like, subscribe, and comment. on our YouTube channel, The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart. JON STEWART: Very nice. Producer Brittany Mehmedovic, Producer Gillian Spear, Video.

Editor and Engineer Rob Vitolo, Audio Editor and Engineer. Nicole Boyce, and our Executive Producer's. Chris McShane and Katie Gray. Couldn't do it without you guys, and thank you very much, and we'll see everybody next week. [MUSIC PLAYING]. The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart. is a Comedy Central podcast that's produced by Paramount. Audio and Busboy Productions.