Jon Stewart & Maria Ressa On the US’s Authoritarian Slide | The Weekly Show

a basic tenant of tech is. personalization right that you can have. your own everybody can design their own. experience yeah except in reality if you. have 20 people with different realities. that's called an insane. [Music]. asylum hey everybody Welcome once again. to the weekly Show podcast my name is. John Stewart I will be your host we are. coming to. you uh I think well we're recording ing.

this what day is today Wednesday morning. no yeah Wednesday morning it's going to. come out tomorrow I think the president. Trump is still speaking he's just. wrapping up now he's just now he's. giving out some cars and I was last. night I he's so much better at this than. all the democ oh the sweet sweet. Democrats with their uh protest hatched. in some High School Theater Workshop or.

wherever it is that they got hey man. I've got some magic markers in my locker. I'm just why don't we just write phrases. on postcards and while the president is. honoring people who've lost their. children and gold star families and. giving people uh you know West Point. commendations I'm just going to hold up. a a handwritten sign that. says I'm sad.

this isn't. right oh. [ __ ] it is it is and that's why here's. here's why I'm very excited about. today's show uh the guest that we have. today is someone who I think whose. spirit is indomitable and I you throw it. around like somebody who is uh vital and. working hard to create uh the the type. of world that they think is uh fairer. and more just and all those things and.

our guest today is doing just that and I. think is absolutely outlining a. coherent uh and very cleare eyed view of. what is happening and strategies to uh. get back to that a more constitutional. and and free and. fair world and I think boy she is the. antithesis of writing dumb [ __ ] on.

placards and holding them up during. during a h uh so I'm just going to get. to her because I I just love her and I. just wanna I want to hear her thoughts. on on all that is happening within this. uh volatile time so let's just let's. just. go ladies and gentlemen we're just going. to get to the guest because there is. really there are very few people that I. want to talk to right now to be. perfectly Frank but there is no one I'd.

rather talk to than our guest Maria. ressa whose resilience whose Spirit uh I. just I so appreciate and love Nobel. Peace Prize winner rappler CEO Columbia. University Professor Maria Russa is. joining us how are you I'm good hi John. it is always good to talk to you it is. it is a delight as always uh Maria uh. your experience uh throughout you being. in the Philippines and and going through.

uh the trials and tribulations that they. put you through for the. crime of saying things you think you. know a terrible Maria I don't know if. you know that terrible terrible crime to. commit by saying things you think uh as. you're watching things unfold in the. United States right now what is how how. are you processing all. this I mean this is the second time I've. gone through it in my two countries. right and it's very familiar I mean we.

saw this first in the elections even in. the way the speed of the elections but. then this Death By A Thousand Cuts and I. think what's worse is it's accelerated. um so you know in the Philippines in. 2016 under President Rodrigo duterte he. Consolidated power we the Philippines. has a constitution just like the United. States three branches of government a. Bill of Rights freedom of the press. enshrined in that freedom of expression. and what he did after he took office. very similar to this within a month or.

so he went to Beijing and then he. pivoted he just announced without. telling our our department of Foreign. Affairs he pivoted from the United. States to China and Russia shocked the. entire country and then after that what. happened is within six months the checks. and balances of the three branches of. government collapsed and Rodrigo duera. became the most powerful leader the. Philippines has ever had and he probably. would have stayed in power if the.

military had gone with him so to see. this happening again and the Philippines. you know in a weird way you know Maria. can I I was really I thought this was. going to be a slightly more optimistic. view I I I didn't I didn't know you were. gonna break it down that quickly I. that's that's first of all it's so. interesting because Maga I think you. know Trump was very clearly on the side. of duterte and I did not realized that.

he had pivoted so quickly to Russia and. China in the same way that in some. respects we've pivoted to Russia is that. a it was duterte a sort of political. alignment a front runner of this I hate. to call it a new world order but that. idea of these illiberal democracies with. constitutions being run by unitary. Executives is that how the world is. carved up in this new order.

it has been happening if we are we were. paying attention it's been happening I. mean you know really uh as of last year. 71% of the world is now under. authoritarian rule that's from VM in. Sweden 71% and that was before the more. than 70 elections that happened last. year that brought Donald Trump 2.0 into. into office right and then what we're. seeing and again you'll see this this is.

what we live through in the Philippines. once an autocrat to be is democratically. elected so we are electing illiberal. leaders democratically once they're. elected they crush the institutions in. their own country but they don't stay in. their own country right they Ally with. different and what we saw in the. Philippines was China and Russia and. then beyond that I think the next step. and you're seeing this in in the United. States it's fast-tracked um we started.

calling it The broligarchymall. creates a new oligarchy using state. laress right this is feudalism but more.

than feudalism To the victor goes the. spoils to a certain extent right it. begins the kleptocracy right so I think. what's even more alarming in the United. States is that it brings together what. the match that set the world on fire. which is technology and John you know. we've been raising the alarm on this. since. 2016 um and that has led to where we are. today so meline Albright called it. slicing the salami in in my country what.

slicing the salami because you know you. slice bit of it and then democracy's. gone right right right right no I yeah I. see what you're saying we're we're in. this geopolitical real politic you're. talking about how the erosion of. democracy and then to throw in a deli. reference I think just threw me off for. a second but it's oh my God I made you. laugh see there you go that's that's all. you need it's so you know the. Philippines is such an interesting.

uh example in my mind because you're. right there there was a volatility. always for the Philippines between sort. of when it became a constitutional. democracy but also you you lived under. martial law under under Marcos for so. long yeah which you know again it's that. idea of like right now I mean Trump is. not. a super popular president this is not. Reagan but he has Democratic he was.

elected uh democratically and right now. he has a reasonable approval rating that. uh you would not think oh the American. people have. rejected this pivot in in large measure. I I don't think they have and so I. wonder when you watch that happen what. is the. response. from the opposition how do you I mean I.

don't know if you saw last night the. opposition appeared to be like they held. up paddles with words on them and you. know or had a crayon and wrote like this. isn't normal and you're just thinking. well this just looks like an ad. hoc High School theater group that has I. mean I I you know they're going to show. the principle of the school that they. want their you know their chocolate milk. at lunch back like it it seems utterly.

in. disarray I think this is the danger of. the moment the world is upside down and. let me put it in in my context first. right like uh the three things that I. think Americans need to think about. right now is that um you're looking for. the Democratic party to to do it it it's. not them it's actually if at the front. lines right now is the Republican party. but I would say what the the two two. main things you have to keep in mind is.

that the only way you fight back is with. facts and law facts and law and and you. know when we watched for example the. zalinski uh at the White House um when. you begin to untangle the facts the the. the main one which turned the United. States into actually which which was the. vote the Monday before at the United. Nations where the United States voted. against a basic tenant of the United.

Nations that the United States helped. create right the Philippines was was one. of the original signatories of the. universal Declaration of Human Rights of. the United Nations you're talking about. the there was a resolution at the United. Nations that suggested you know it's the. three-year anniversary of the War uh in. in Ukraine and it suggested perhaps. countries shouldn't invade other. countries that are sovereign and uh it's. as you said kind of rule one it was.

commandment number one at the United. Nations why it was formed and just to. give the context of what Maria is. talking about it was a uh the most basic. of resolutions and the United Nations. they're not necessarily they're. certainly not binding they don't really. have any power but there's a symbolic uh. nature to suggesting that territory is. sacran and you shouldn't do it for for. no apparent reason and then go go ahead. Maria you can talk about like. H how that vote went down well the.

United States voted against it voted. away voted with if you think about it. for Americans now right think about the. shift in the way you should be looking. at yourself it voted with some countries. that it once called the axis of Evil. right voted with Russia with with. countries that invaded and then tried to. change the world by saying Ukraine is. the aggressor which which which is what. walked into the Oval Office uh on that. Friday so on a Monday the United States.

turned it upside down I don't think we. paid enough attention to that um but. that is that's like saying well of. course this is the impunity now right. that's that's saying so if the United. States was fighting Russia before now. it's they're on the same side which uh. yeah we flipped teams it was it was. Maria I man I couldn't agree with you. more that I actually thought and it it. did not get the kind of shock uh through.

the world that that I thought it would. the United States voted with I think the. other countries were North Korea belus. obviously Russia Russia uh I don't know. if China voted or China abstained yeah. they abstained even China andan. abstained yeah even China and Iran were. not willing to go like oh yeah no you. can invade people that's cool uh Israel. voted I mean is that does that give you. a. hint of what this new illiberal.

lineup looks like are we trying to. figure out now who are the Allied powers. and who are the aess powers I I. obviously don't think it's as simple as. that I don't think the United States is. suddenly now uh in that and and we'll. talk a little bit later about you know. right now it's it's getting a little. dark but we'll talk about some of the. institutional structural uh. geographical uh things that are positive. and. optimistic uh for the United States. moving forward and there are some you.

know I I don't want to make it seem as. though this is inexorable and we're just. uh sliding towards that but the. Philippines is such an interesting. because you guys were kind of a free. agent yeah you you know you were with. the United States then flipped over to. Russia China and you are strategically. so important look I guess what I'm. saying is and what I hope and this isn't. Bleak or not right it is what should. American citizens be doing right now. which is that if you don't stand up for.

your rights right now you will only get. weaker over time this is the lesson we. learned in the Philippines because all. of these moves that are happening now. are changing our world it's not just. America it's the entire world so the. rest of the world when this happened I. think we saw it and we clocked it and. you can see the almost the immediate. reaction over the weekend after the. white house uh Europe kicked in there's.

there's always a grain of Truth in what. president Trump says and I you know the. office deserves the respect that that. you get away with things that I could. not get but right but but so the office. deserves the respect like I've always. referred to president duterte president. Trump so um there's a grain of Truth he. takes and then flips uses it to flip the. world so I guess coming out of that and. this is where it isn't Bleak I think you. have to embrace it and understand this.

moment um how to stand up to a dictator. the book that I wrote was originally. written for Philippino citizens but it. was literally I a warning call for. everyone because it because this was. triggered by the public information. ecosystem that we live in which rewards. corruption it corrupts us right it. rewards the worst of us if lies spread. faster if fear anger and hate spread. that's the way you are what kind of.

world do you create well this is the. kind of world we create so the last part. I would just say is you have to look. exactly at who is America today when. you're taxing your closest allies when. your representatives are allying with a. man who was sanctioned for invading. right um these are documented these are. facts when the the facts are being.

shifted in front of you what do you do. as a citizen and I think for. institutions that are quickly because. not acting silence today means consent. and the US will take the world in a. whole different place sorry it's not. Bleak it's just man wake up wake up you. can never be Bleak Maria you are you are. the the have the sunniest disposition of. of anybody I've seen especially given uh. all the things you went through and for. those who you know are maybe being.

introduced to Maria at this time you. know Maria did walks the walk stood up. when duterte uh was in power as a. journalist and was really uh was. arrested and went through uh you know. had her rights removed from her and it. was I'm sure it was a really frightening. time for you in that moment what made. you what gave you the the courage but. also the.

fortitude to to see what you were seeing. and decide I'm going to speak. out no matter what what the cost is is. that a conscious decision that you make. I yeah because I am both a Filipino and. an American and uh there were moments. when um in in about a year or so I had. 10 criminal charges that my government. filed against me right uh and and when. that that happened people said you.

should leave and I couldn't leave the. Philippines cuz one I've run a a company. called rappler uh about 100 120 people. and I felt like when the moment comes. you are that's that's the moment that. tests who you are and I guess that's why. I keep going back and I felt like if I. had run it um that then my life was is a. lie standards and ethics which is. journalism is about right standards and.

ethics it's easy to have it when it's. easy but it's really when it's difficult. that you have to stand up there's this. great saying in Japan and Indonesia the. nail that stands up gets the hammer um. and wow you know when it was during that. time in it was around 2018 and this was. very easy and this goes hand in hand. right the methodology first social media. attacks you say a lie a million times it. becomes a fact and for me the attack was.

uh journalist equals criminal # arrest. Maria aressa was trended on social media. the Philippines for six years in a row. spent Filipinos spent the most Time. online and on social media globally uh. for six years and it that ended in 2021. so what they trended was hash arrest. Maria aressa in 2017 that was was the. impetus for that Maria this is like. fertilizer for government action and. it's work so much faster in the United.

States so # arrest Maria aressa was. trended by the pro duter networks their. networks on Facebook and they were. accusing you of what they just were. making the connection of journalist. equals criminal and oh wow it I mean. it's the same narrative that President. Trump in his first presidency you know. if you if you're not with him you're. against him and you're against national. interests you're an enemy of the people. that came out of dues my president's. mouth as well but then what happened it.

trended it's like fertilizer because I. was arrested 2 years later but when I. was arrested it set the ground so it was. acceptable right you normalize this you. normalize impunity that's the role. social media played so the lie comes up. bubbles on social media and then law. fair comes down top down a year later. that's what happened to us so 2016 the. online attacks I was getting an average.

of 990 hate messages per hour and then. 2017 2018. investigations um the first attempt to. try to shut Raper down was in 2018. within four months we dropped 49% of our. advertising Revenue in 2019 and I will. always remember Valentine's Day because. that's when I was able to post bail I. was arrested and then I just kept. getting arrested I mean get I kept. getting arrest warrants and the charges. are you were being charged with with.

what with you know reporting with with. facts like how did they turn your what. you're reporting your journalism into. the crime how what is the way that they. criminalize information in in that. regard I really really hope America. doesn't go down this route but I worry. when Doge gets sensitive information. five criminal charges were tax evasion.

I've won all of those wow right you were. like Al Capone that they wanted to shut. you down because they didn't like the. fact that you were. exposing layers of corruption and rather. than say oh it's criminal to expose our. corruption they tried to find some other. dumb [ __ ] and grab you in that regard. when rule of law breaks it's so easy to.

weaponize the law and you know that was. so my 10 I mean I still have two left. it's been almost a decade what and out. of the 10 criminal charges I have two. left one already at the Supreme Court. which could send me to jail for seven. years for up to seven years I have to. ask the Philippine Supreme Court for. permission to travel and this particular. case I can't discuss it in any way. because those are some of my conditions. but you know if you go back and look at. it uh I I could go to jail for a story.

that was published before the law was we. supposedly violated what written they. wrote a law in response to a story and. then tried to arrest you because of the. story so they retroactively arrested you. so I can't argue this publicly but I. would say you know the goal here is to. one to make people obey before because. all they need is an example and you're. seeing this. um Tim Snider will say don't obey in.

advance I say hold the line and I we. actually took that away from the. rightest because the line is the line of. your rights under the Constitution do. not voluntarily give it up because when. you do you're not going to get back. right so again I go back and look at. everything happening in America today. will those USA ID workers get their jobs. back you know um Elon Musk went on and. said oh yeah we make mistakes and you. know like the Ebola prevention it.

doesn't go back right well that's cuz. everybody I mean I think they view. everybody else in the world as NPCs. they're sort of non-playable characters. and so you know when your ethos is all. all these these are just pieces that. we're moving around on a board Maria I. want to ask you you know you said. something really interesting about just. obeying in advance and those kinds of. things what do you think of I've been a. little bit shocked at Zuckerberg Bezos.

you know he goes into the Washington. Post and he says he from now on our. opinion page is not opinion I have two. pillars that I'm completely pretending I. abide by which is free markets and. personal Liberty or something you know. basically a more libertarian Viewpoint. and just said our opinion pag is now. those two things that's it and I'm sure. what he's suggesting is and they have to. be promoting those two things or.

whatever my vision is and it's so. antithetical to what is actually. happening this idea. that uh a more uh top down Society will. increase personal Liberty for people or. or create free markets is it's a joke. yeah we're losing our rights each time. so the behavior we'll call them the. Broly archs because they are Tech Bros. so that's where it comes from like the. tech Bros this is power and money and.

just straight out power and money. building what I hope doesn't happen. which is a kleptocracy and apple bomb. calls it an an an autocracy but this is. power and money and I think what you're. seeing is the obeying in advance uh I. think it started with Elon Musk was way. up front and then Mark Zuckerberg. followed by taking away factchecking at. the start of the year right and they're. not obeying by the way I think they. agree you know I don't even think I.

think they're they like it this way I. think they like a unitary executive that. agrees with them that there's only a. certain class of people that should. control all aspects of society I I would. say this this theory of strongman is. something that they're very positive. about I don't even see it as obeying I. think they've gotten permission to be. who they are that they no longer have. the responsibility to.

pretend that they respect or think about. or care about the population RIT large. in general I don't I I I don't think. they're doing it. reluctantly so you know I I went to. school with Jeff Bezos we graduated in. in the same class yeah so I actually. think I think these values that they've. that they had I think they tried but. business money was more important and.

what you're seeing is what we saw in the. Philippines it is currying favor from as. he calls himself the king because when. you do that look this is the creation of. a kleptocracy when you do that when. you're only cutting a business deal when. it is only a quidd proquo a corrupt. government is actually easier to deal. with right it's transactional yeah. transactional which is actually and the. United States for a long time was not. like that or or seemingly had these.

things in place right was not explicitly. that we should be clear this isn't a. black and white there's always an. undercurrent of. kleptocracy that's there is actually a. stream of that that is how the world. works and you know we should recognize. that this is making it explicit yeah and. and saying hey man this whole ethics. thing that's a real pain in the ass so. let's just go straight yeah and that. again was something that President Trump. cause the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.

and I know this because I ran a CNN. Bureau that blew my mind too man right. like you cannot if you're an American. company bribe someone you can't uh. that's against the law but that was. paused so what are we saying now America. are you saying yeah it's okay go bribe. and I the way it was presented is this. gets in the way of our in of our. competition but corruption is not. competition right so I guess so to go.

back to what what you're saying I feel. like uh again America's values have. shifted and the the question Americans. have to ask is this this the world you. want is this is this the world you want. your kids to grow up in but you know. John we have to go back one of the. things and it bothers me because we. don't talk enough about this how did we. get to this state and what role did the. tech we talked about these CEOs I do do. think for a while they tried I I think.

they never wanted to be Gatekeepers and. that's that's that's where we're going. to start which is in 2014 news. organizations were both creating. journalism and distributing journalism. and our distribution did not corrupt you. but in 2014 The Gatekeepers Chang it. right it wasn't algorithmic it wasn't. your distribution was your distribution. uh you wrote things people were drawn to. them you know but it it it didn't there. was no thumb on the scale there was none. of those kinds of things we all had the.

same reality right you could say they. they're different opinions but the facts. remained by 2014 and this is not a. coincidence that that was the same time. that the meta Narrative of uh that's. used to Annex Crimea by Russia and then. eight years later Putin used to invade. Ukraine itself uh that meta narrative. was seeded in in 2014 was that After the. maidon revolution is that where it it. became it led yeah yeah and I think.

Putin learned from that so so there two. ways information operations work you see. the meta narrative and then you the. virality is hitting it opportunistically. every time which makes it spread further. right so and we have all the data behind. this so we watched history change in the. Philippines and 2014 was the year right. when maros the dictator became the. greatest leader we've ever known and set. the stage for the election of his only.

son and namesake in 2022 so so think. about that 2014 The Gatekeepers changed. yeah we can talk about that a little bit. but let me get make sure you know this. chronology yeah please pleas 2018 which. is when technology they were making. money right it was all about profit by. 2018 an MIT study said that lies on. social media spread six times faster. this is 2018 before Elon Musk bought. Twitter it's significantly worse six.

times faster so that's the incentive. structure lies spread six times faster. and then our data in the Philippines. showed that if you use fear anger and. hate it spreads virally so look at the. incentive structure right and so what. did it do our technology artificial. intelligence has been around for 70. years or so it isn't new but it was how. it was used by tech companies big Tech. they essentially hacked our biology went. to the thinking fast part of the way we.

operate they by changing the way we feel. they changed how we see the world and. the way we act right when you change the. way you act that goes right to how we. vote so I can also share with you like. some of the the studies that we've done. that show this that has led to the 71%. of the world under authoritarian Rule. and then the big year of elections in. 2024 and 202 25 is really when those. people take office and the kind of world.

we're creating and we're seeing this. already I would say the last part is. that the impact of this technology and. for the first time the S the Surgeon. General of the United States the. outgoing the last one Vivic Murthy. actually released a report on the impact. on teenagers um and talked about the. epidemic of loneliness all of this. making us far more um. malleable the in to the Insidious.

manipulation of our public information. ecosystem so the question really is when. you vote do you have free will we've. passed through that and so that goes. back to the tech Bros you're saying. there is a a a manipulation that is. strategic and purposeful boy Maria. what's so interesting about this is it. reminds me as you were talking. of advertising in the way that you know. you think about the old cigarette. companies and they used to create almost.

cartoon mascots you know Joe Camel and. and those kinds of things because they. were trying. to entice and addict young people yeah. and so they designed and I'm sure it was. purposeful and I'm sure it was based in. science they designed these incredibly. welcoming you know uh Susan like. characters that would you know like. children's characters that'd be like hey. you know what you could use right now. Timmy h couple of smokes come on you. know and then it would get addicted but.

that same principle you said it earlier. that I thought was really. interesting they studied what did you. say fear anger and hate were the three. tent post that drove the most engagement. and that incentivized it and that those. three. things drum up for a populace a real I. would think populist opportunity to.

harness that then fear anger and. hate and and use it to consolidate power. it's it it's an. incredibly uh difficult machine to break. because to a certain extent you're. saying they've rewired the. brains for these dopamine hits of fear. anger and hate and use that to to to to. seed purposefully a vulnerability is.

that am am I am I summing it up. similarly to how you're you're seeing it. I can give you the data for that and. you've just said it a different way but. here's the part right we did a study in. the United States As Americans were. getting ready to vote last year and we. took a look at you know on on. traditional media what were the stories. across the Spectrum left right and. Center we Ed media bias Factor check to. to look at this the top stories that.

news organizations were doing that so. this would be the highest traffic we. took all those topics and then we looked. at how What were what was happening on. social media three major topics that we. that we narrow down it was um abortion. immigration and Gaza so what happens now. is the Insidious manipulation and I will. call them information operations cuz. that's what you have been living under. these things make more money for the.

platforms yes it's what you're talking. about but let's go back to your to your. tobacco advertising was illegal you. couldn't advertise if you were tobacco. that's that was my point is that once. they discovered what was going on the. government came in and said you can't do. that to kids and that was since 2016. John I have been asking for safety. regulations and we've you know I was. hoping it would come from the United. States that section 230 of the 1996. Communications decency act gave impunity.

to Big Tech to manipulate us which they. would by the way frame as oh no that's. just free speech Free Speech this is not. a free speech which is a very cynical. interpretation when you're doing it on. behalf of President Trump who threatens. to throw people in jail if they're you. know if they say something he doesn't. care for so Le let's let's put a pin in. their uh uh you know their principled. free speech defenses and go back back to. what happened after Mark Zuckerberg took.

away those safeguards for greater profit. and to Curry favor with the incoming. Administration right understand. sometimes it's not that they're cynical. it's that they see an opportunity for. money it's a great deal and they also. need to protect themselves this is I saw. this again in the Philippines right and. there was a period of time where I was. like I know the CEO I know he's. principled but if you're living in this. environment of corruption how do you. survive this right self-preservation.

right but but here I think there's they. see a great opportunity to make money. because the US government pushing back. against EU. regulations um will mean that the entire. world will be far more. vulnerable oh God did you so the whole. boy if if this gets us into something. I'm gonna ask this and I'm sorry to be. bouncing around but Maria you're. bringing up so many interesting uh and. and valuable and essential points but it.

just popped into my head you mentioned. the EU you know when you realign with. Russia and the liberal uh democracies. and you weaken the EU is the purpose. here the EU is a far more stringent. regulatory regime they sue tech. companies uh they have certain. restrictions on these algorithms they. have certain things is this all a play. to just remove any guard rails on AI and.

incentivizing tech and and all those. different things is it not really about. uh you know democracy versus I don't. know autocracy is it really about like I. don't like that you don't let me do. whatever I want to do with my. company the death of democracy is a. byproduct of letting Tech remain the. most unregulated industry globally wow.

right this is move fast break things. under Mark Zuckerberg um was their. Mantra and he did break democracy that I. lived through this I showed the data in. the Philippines and Facebook Twitter. though you saw the effect and the. Philippines is probably a great uh petri. dish for that because it's smaller you. know it's it's like when they do studies. on fruit flies it's something they can. study more easily because it's a clearer. picture and that was exactly what the.

Cambridge analytica whistleblower called. the Philippines he said it was the petri. dish remember Cambridge altica in 2018. right when Chris Wy um when I spoke to. him he said that uh the Philippines was. the testing ground if these tactics of. manipulation worked on us then they. ported them over to you right the real. Target was the United States but we were. the petri dish you were Test Kitchen. they were like oh let's let's see how. the MC Rib Works in the Philippines and. then we'll see if we can throw it out.

there in Limo Ohio so you have to. understand why we were the testing. ground because we were so our history. 300 years in a Convent 50 years in. Hollywood we were. colonized it's not so it is funny that. way but um look we were colonized by. Spain for 300 years and by the United. States for 50 years and so almost every. digital product even with Yahoo They. tested in our country we speak English. and then again to hear the Cambridge.

analytical whistleblower say this and. look at this the facts the most number. of compromised accounts for Cambridge. analytica was were Americans the country. with the second most number of. compromised accounts was the Philippines. and by the way Cambridge analytica for. those who don't know it was an absolute. right-wing ideological sigh up right and. and by the way bannon's been very clear. about that he might be the only guy in. all of this that I sort of respect. because he just he just says this is. this is actually what we're trying to do. and and they go about and do it there.

there is no pretense to any of it for. him yeah and of course he's now speaking. up against Elon Musk but weit so I want. to tell you just one thing because there. was a period of time when we thought. there was uh there was something that we. could do right Dimitri moratv and who. also won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2021. with me in 2022 we came up with a. 10-point action plan and this was. largely directed to the EU because they. were putting together the Digital. Services act the digital markets act. America was really kind of lost the the.

American exceptionalism gets in the way. right you don't realize that you're the. Target and and now oh my God anyway let. me so let me talk about let me summarize. the 10-point action plan into three. buckets I feel like I'm watching a. beautiful mind I'm just watching mariaa. draw the connections and do all that and. bring up the board and John I want you. to take these facts and make them funny. because no's listening to them I'm doing. my damn best friend I really am it's.

just. hard the three buckets that we and we we. sent this out in 300 Nobel orad Civil. Society groups this was signed right. number one how do you fight back against. the manipulation online right because. there were no laws at that point the. first is stop surveillance for profit. surveillance capitalism wasn't that's. the business phrase the business name. for what the tech companies were doing.

information Mining and and all those. things right and then manipulation of us. right so stop surveillance for profit. the second one is stop coded bias. because you colonialism didn't die it. only moved online and and so if you are. marginalized in any way in the real. world if you are a woman lgbtq plus if. you're an ethnic minority you're further. marginalized by the code right so that's. too stop coded bias and it was largely.

Silicon Valley then we had Tik Tock come. in actually it grew during that time. period we were I I was in a lot in the. EU the third is journalism as an. antidote to tyranny boom you don't trust. journalists today because we have been. under attack since 2014 pretty much. repeatedly and then what happens is the. incentive structure for the distribution. system of the. journalism handcuffs. so you do the crappy stuff to get.

distribution to get the clicks man yeah. it commodifies journalism and it isn't. the best crappy journalism spreads the. fastest sorry anyway please think about. those things right and then in the. middle of all of that is you your child. this is a safety issue for a company to. this is what tech companies do the. social media platform this is even. before generative AI which I was going. to say it's it's about to get. turbocharged the inchid ification of the.

internet is happening right now right. that's a Corey doctoral that's got to be. bumper sticker somewhere but that's inid. ification Excuse me while I uh scroll. through my inchid ification feed it just. means that we cannot tell fact from. fiction and when you have no facts the. only government that can survive is a. dictators oh Lord you know Maria I'm. wondering and by the way you've laid. this out I think beautifully and and I.

think in some ways you you've given us a. a a little bit of a way to see The. Matrix if that makes sense you're sort. of now you know you're you're showing us. the code and how it's used by uh. political actors to try and consolidate. and gain power and continue to. consolidate you know New Media uh. structures have always created. volatility whether it's the printing. press or radio or TV or those kinds of. things is is there a chance you know two. two things these are two questions one.

will the human. brain adapt in some respects to this. inhi ification so that it won't have the. same powerful manipulative effect not to. say that they won't always try and get. ahead of it and number two can the inhi. ification be turned into in nification. in can it be reverse engineered yeah for. a better outcome two quick answers I.

think the first one is that this system. that uses our Thinking Fast um that. manipulates us uh what it has done is. broken down trust you know the. polarization is an algorithm it's a. friends of friends algorithm that that. created more profits for the company. they AB tested this so when you don't. have trust it's you cannot you don't. know again no you can't tell fact from. fiction then you don't trust anyone.

which means Civic engagement dies right. so so and the friends network is what. you trust if it's sent to you from. someone in your network whether on. Facebook or Twitter or whatever it is. they've got trust but the institution. that would generally have some editorial. Authority does not have trust and your. friends and family actually uh are far. more easier manipulated than the. institutions which did have St standards. and ethics at some point right like. gatekeeping institutions who are legally.

liable I think that's what we're missing. but let me just the the friends of. friends algorithm this is what happened. in the Philippines in 2016 after Rodrigo. duterte was elected we didn't debate the. facts we had a shared reality But after. when the friends of friends algorithm. grew the social media platforms they. realized that if they recommend friends. of your friends you're more likely to. click to join to grow your own network. so in. 2016 if you were Pro duttera you moved.

further right and if you're anti-. duttera you moved further left this is. where the politics and culture group. right came together and over time this. Chasm group so people tend to think. about it as political parties I tend to. think about it as facts we have to go. back to a factbase shared reality you. know these three sentences I've said. over and over if you don't have facts. you can't have truth without truth you. can't have trust without these three you.

don't have a shared reality you can't. have journalism you can't have democracy. you can't solve any problems which is. what the world I feel like Cassandra and. sisifus combined John I mean it's. like boy you could not Pi a child of. Cassandra and and Copus that is going to. be a very stressed out household but I I. I see where you're where you're coming. from there and I also so you know it's. very interesting to watch because this.

fact-based universe that you're talking. about is not as profitable given the. incentive structure that you're saying. there yeah and so you find the. institutional places where you would go. to trust these news organizations are. are losing that battle a bit you know we. always talk about I view it through a. legal kind of framework if it was they. say what should the Press be doing and I. always say well rather than chasing.

those other incentives people say like. oh we're living in two different. realities I think you put it best. there's reality and we all live in it. yeah so in my mind journalism is simply. this now they are the people's lawyer to. litigate the boundaries of our shared. reality and that is simply it that is. all you exist to do is litigate that. reality because as you said a legal. structure has evidentiary standards Y. and if you can't meet the evidentiary.

standards because. journalism is trying to keep up with the. the Circadian rhythm of social media it. doesn't give them time to prepare their. litigation and arguments but I I would. say and this would be advice for. American journalists that from from. folks whove lived through it you know. you go back to facts by the way I'm. hearing a siren in the background Maria. if that's coming for I am very worried. about you all the time and now I hear a.

siren and I'm like what is she saying. that is causing are they coming now oh. my god well again I hope America um. doesn't go here but so facts are. critically important because when you're. anchored in facts we're in our shared. reality the second one is rule of law. we've been fighting for this globally. now right impunity cannot be normalized. because when you normal impunity then. that's how that's the slicing the salami.

that's the death by a Thousand Cuts but. let me answer your second question you. asked so what do we do tech-wise right. now okay three years ago and you used. Matrix three years ago I realized that. begging the tech companies to do the. right thing was getting nowhere that's. after like after having gone after being. faced with legal suits that was about to. send me to prison for a 100 years 103. years exactly right and I actually went. to them and as people they were like. well I'm sorry Maria you're a public.

figure it's against the law some of the. things that are there this is a safety. issue anyway so what we did three years. ago is we began to build a public Tech. stack democratic governments also. abdicated responsibility for the virtual. world because the real laws in the. physical world should have just been. mirrored in the virtual world because. only one person lives in both worlds. right oh that's interesting so we went. to something called The Matrix.

protocol literally it's called The. Matrix protocol but if you wow if you're. interested in this right um it's. governments and militaries use the. Matrix protocol because it is. desegregated it is safe it has data. privacy and so little rappler in the. Philippines began to build a matrix. protocol chat app and where we can take. our community and and communicate with. each other safely what are the tenants. of of the Matrix protocol what are what. would you have to abide by to exist in.

the Matrix protocol it's kind of like. blue sky right people are gravitating to. Blue Sky Blue Sky uses something called. the at protocol but instead of like. individual realities which a basic. tenant of tech is. personalization right that you can have. your own everybody can design their own. experience yeah except in reality if you. have 20 people with different realities. that's called an insane asylum. true that cannot be in the real world so.

the Matrix protocol allows us to. actually have a shared reality and we've. rolled it out uh at December 2023 we're. getting ready our community is now on. this chat app and what we're looking at. is a global Federation of news. organizations I think this is the only. way we'll survive you know having said. that again I call on democratic nations. where is your public text stack you. build libraries but you don't protect us.

it's like putting lead in the paint. again it's a safety issue and then sorry. the the last one you asked so so what do. we do building now is painful because. events are moving so quickly are we. going to fall off the cliff right will. what is happening to America it's. transforming the entire world already. and Americans have to really decide and. this is where it goes to what can you do. right when the tech has allowed. geopolitical power to manipulate at the.

cellular level of a democracy meaning. you listening you John Stewart are now. can be specifically targeted right I I. believe I believe I've seen that I I I. think I know what you're talking about. well thank you you keep going but the. point here is that now you also have the. opportunity to stand up and fight for. the world you want because and I don't.

think it's going to be in the corrupted. environment you know the mayor of Paris. at the 75th anniversary of the universal. Declaration of Human Rights this was a. year ago or two she said you know she. got out of Twitter then X because she. called it a sewer so you so so now we. have to you have to figure out what. Civic engagement the kind of person you. want to be right uh and the question in. how does stand up to a dictator is to. every person it is what are you willing.

to sacrifice for the truth for the truth. this is it and for Americans in. particular if you become an ostrich and. do and avoid the news you will lose the. rights of the next for your next for. your kids um this is it and that's. probably part of the strategy I would. think Maria is to exhaust you to the. point where you just feel like I'm going. to disengage I mean to to be frank the. whole strategy here and I think boy have.

you nailed it in terms of its. purposefulness is to disconnect the. people from Power yes and to have power. be unencumbered I think that's generally. what what they would like is to not have. us meaning the Govern have to give. consent to give it sort of tacit consent. and you do whatever you want because. because your Geniuses and the Geniuses. should be able to run unfettered through.

the Wilds of of whatever power is and. maybe that's the shift it really is how. they they they try and do that I think. the part that is dispiriting for people. is once again it's up to individuals. sort of in the same way that they do. with global warming like well if you. just conserve you'll do better I think. we need to battle on the same playing. field I think we need. powerful top down and that's why I think.

news organizations have infrastructures. yeah and they are well. positioned to be real tent posts in this. battle for our shared reality and that's. why I think I I get so. frustrated watching them fall prey to. these other in. incentives I think it it's it start. there I mean right now the Democratic. party is in utter disarray they don't.

even have a Playbook it doesn't appear. to be to me so I Look to these other. places with infrastructure and. communication abilities yeah and and. that's but there are a couple of other. structural things in the United States I. want to talk about real quick beyond. that which is you know we are a much. harder the Philippines is a smaller it's. sort of like when in America a liberal. might say if you look at finland's. Healthcare system we could just apply. that you know smaller more homogeneous.

areas harder to do we are a vast country. with a ton of people however badly they. think multiculturalism is for the fabric. it's here to stay yeah we are not easily. categorized within there is that in any. way Maria a Bull workk against the kind. of capture that you're talking about or. does this cut Beyond those structural. advantages that America might have oh my. gosh it's such a complex question how do.

you answer in a few the quick answer. here is um learned helplessness is a a. you know this this move fast that's what. what's happened right and the longer we. normalize these things the harder it. will be to come back so um I mean I'm. going to jump to you know my friends and. I talk about this a lot if if America. work to turn fascist what does that look. like it's actually white. supremacy right so speaking so sort of.

so it's a throwback it's retro it's back. in fashion so this country has had those. roots right and actually that's you know. it's ironic that make America great. again is the slogan because in the 70s. Ferdinand Marcos our first dictator his. slogan was make the Philippines great. again V Victor Orban in Hungary in 2010. when he took office his slogan is make. Hungary great again right like this is.

not new they want a global uh string of. nation states that pretend to be. singular but are actually working. together to this one more illiberal goal. right so so your to to your question our. institutions get weaker every day if. they do not exercise their power and the. on the three branches of government. right we're now leaning on the Justice. part but that moves that is the smooth.

the the thinking slow part of the checks. and balances so the question to to you. American politicians American. legislators the people we elected really. is they're determining the world that we. live in and I guess so you're saying it. goes right back to the. people yes it does but part of it is. because we have been sleeping through. the last I say 20 years we assumed. democracy would last forever boy did I.

get a waking up a wake up call in the. Philippines right um there's one more. thing and we talked about this really. briefly up top but in the Philippines my. president Rodrigo detera could have. stayed in power would have stayed in. power longer if the. military backed him right he literally. increased the pension of retired. military generals three three times are. are are and I'm see and again you're. seeing movements decapitating heads of.

agencies that should be independent. right so the question here is the longer. these institutions do not act and you. have a compliant head that is selected. based on loyalty and I'll talk about the. Philippines so I don't get myself in. trouble in the United States you know. ignorance and arrogance plus loyalty um. this is how it collapses and America is. bigger and.

Americans believed you know you were. exceptional you're American so kick in I. guess is what I'm saying kick in or or. atrophy I mean the things that are. exceptional atrophy us and I think the. the greatest trick that is played upon. us is uh this is all being sold to us as. American exceptionalism yes it's the. opposite of what actually made us uh. exceptional in any way which was those. constitutional principles and and uh you.

know human rights that underpinned all. of the documents that that created it. that that sort of Enlightenment era yeah. the Melting Pot my family fled I mean I. be I moved to America in 73 after the. martial martial law was declared in the. Philippines maros was in power for more. than 21 years this was I I don't know. I'm sure you've seen the statue of. Liberty Packing her case right all of. the memes sure anyway oh my God please.

Maria I got to tell you though I just so. love you I love talking to you uh you're. so smart you see so many different. things but you maintain just this. incredible uh spirit and energy that I. can't help but uh be inspired by and. feed off of and uh and I do you know. it's funny even when you lay things out. that I think oh God that's purposeful. and dark I still you give me great. strength and hope you really do and I so.

appreciate it and appreciate you coming. on and talking to us uh early in the. morning and uh no thank you for all you. do John please make it funny no my my. pleasure make the facts funny so people. listen I'm trying Maria uh Maria res a. Nobel Peace Prize win a rappler CEO. Columbia University uh professor and. just all around Shining Light uh thank. you so much for joining us Maria I hope. to talk to you again.

soon. wow I'm telling you man she is that is. just I want to say Sunny D just a glass. like I I talk to Maria and I just feel. like yes yes she's like a the best. pelaton instructor for uh. reinvigorating the idea. of Shar reality and that being the. secret to reconstituting an effective.

groundup. infrastructure for fighting this IL. liberalizing of our world and the inhi. ification that that we find ourselves uh. that we find ourselves in uh Maria ressa. uh man uh fan Fantastic uh we we that is. our show will not be there next week we. will be the week after uh but so.

appreciate all those who continue to. listen to the to the podcast and and. watch it and and those other things I. hope if you get a chance uh please check. out uh Maria's books She lays out. beautifully that this is all a. strategy that it is purposeful that it. is designed and and the outcome that we. are experiencing is the outcome uh that. has been ordained by that design and if.

it's been designed then it can be. fought uh and so I'm just very grateful. uh to her for coming on today and really. appreciate as always lead producer. Lauren Walker producer Britney mic video. editor and engineer Rob Vito audio. editor and engineer Nicole Boyce. researcher and Associate producer. Jillian Spear and as always our. executive producers Chris McShan and. Katie R thanks so much for for listening. and we'll see you guys next time.

bye-bye the weekly show with John. Stewart is a Comedy Central Podcast it's. produced by Paramount audio and bus Boy. Productions. [Music].