Jon Stewart & Kaitlan Collins Navigate Trump’s Headline Hurricanes | The Weekly Show

KAITLAN COLLINS: You may not always. have that moment, especially in an Oval Office spray. It's very crowded. JON STEWART: Wait. They call it a spray? KAITLAN COLLINS: That's what we call it, yeah. JON STEWART: Oh, really? KAITLAN COLLINS: I know we have this terminology--. JON STEWART: (DISAPPOINTED) Oh. KAITLAN COLLINS: --that makes no sense, like the pool, the spray. Sometimes it's more of a fire hose than a spray--. JON STEWART: Fair enough. KAITLAN COLLINS: --of headlines. JON STEWART: Yeah. I don't think I want to talk about this anymore. KAITLAN COLLINS: [laughs]. [theme music]. JON STEWART: Hey, everybody. It's Jon Stewart. It's The Weekly Show podcast with Jon Stewart. Welcome to the show. I'm trying desperately not to push myself up out.

of my chair for the beginning. For some reason, that's my set. So now I'm going to--. you can't see this, but I'm slouching. It's the first show of our second season, and I'm beginning it on a slouch. to try and prevent myself from lifting off the chair. It is Wednesday. God knows what's going to be happening by Thursday. Ukraine could have destroyed the rest of Russia's. nuclear-equipped planes.

It could have not. This whole thing could be over. I just have no damned idea. But I will say the one thing that did catch my eye--. and this is--. it almost seems like a minor occurrence, but they're pulling the name the USS. Harvey Milk off of a Navy destroyer, I believe. And it just reminds me of what this administration is. and the priorities of this administration.

and the ridiculously just petty and malicious way in which. they go about--. I mean, for god's sakes, they're removing the name--. now, Harvey Milk, for those of you who don't know, was an activist for gay rights. He was assassinated in San Francisco, along with the mayor of San Francisco by, I think, a right-wing nutbag who claimed that fast food had. driven him insane. And I think the guy's already--.

he served, I don't know, four years, five. years, some shit like that. But the guy was in the military. He was like a submarine--. and he was kicked out of the military. He got a less-than-honorable discharge out. of the military because he was gay and fought for gay rights. and was an important figure, not just in that movement. but for people who wanted the military.

to represent the actual people of the country. A military, I think, is always strongest. when it is reflective of everyone that it is protecting. That's just-- it makes it a more representative and. better force. And they just removed the name. And not only did they remove the name for no fucking reason, they did it at the beginning of Pride. Month, which is just-- again, the dickishness is the point.

In what way-- why would you do that other than--. it's a move of hostility and nothing else. Oh, I'm going to break up with my significant other. Oh, now? No, no, no. I'm going to wait for their birthday. I'm going to wait until it can have the most. shitty impact on all that. And it's just one more dispiriting. note on this crew that can't be out of there fast enough.

It's just a constant stream of hostile moves. because of how persecuted they are. that one of the ships in the entire US Navy. bore the name of someone who was an activist for gay rights. That can't stand. Confederate soldiers? No, no, no, that's OK. We can have that. I mean, for god's sakes, they changed the name of Fort Bragg.

Bragg was a horrific Confederate general. Fucking, they didn't even like him. And they changed it to, I think, Fort Liberty or something along those lines. And he went and changed it back by finding another soldier. It happens to be a brave soldier from World. War II also named Bragg. This is what we're dealing with. And I don't mean to keep harping on it. It's just one of those things I saw. And I just thought, goddammit. This is what we're gonna have to deal--. it's been four months.

Jesus. But speaking of, on a different note, someone who is dealing. with it directly, who has to be in-- who faces down. the torrent of these individuals and does it, I think, better than almost anybody out there right now, and I am very pleased to have on as a guest, ladies. and gentlemen, our guest today in our first show back, Kaitlan Collins. [rim shot, music]. Ladies and gentlemen, what a day we have. It's the first show of the new season,

and we are joined by Kaitlan Collins, CNN anchor, chief White House correspondent. The show, The Source with Kaitlan Collins. It's weeknights at 9:00 PM on CNN. Kaitlan. KAITLAN COLLINS: I'm looking for a third job. if you have any producer spots. JON STEWART: Are you the only one that does that? Are you the only White House correspondent. who does a nightly show? KAITLAN COLLINS: Yeah. Well, because it's insane. JON STEWART: It is insane. KAITLAN COLLINS: Because I took a small break, hiatus, from the White House for two years. when I was in New York. But now that I'm back--.

when you leave the White House, it's this big, tall gate, and you go through security. And before, when you would leave, it's like, OK, your day is over. Yeah, you gotta stay on the phone, but your job's done. Now when I'm leaving through the gate. and saying bye to the Secret Service guards, I'm going to my second job. I'm like, OK, job one done. Now job two is about to begin. And I'm like-- it's a lot. JON STEWART: And you guys moved into a new studio. Did they make you also bring in the furniture and all that? Is this a budget situation where. they're just making Kaitlan Collins. do all the work for everybody? KAITLAN COLLINS: Yeah.

My dad called me the night after we moved to the newsroom. Our news set is in the newsroom instead. of just a typical TV studio. And he was like, where were you last night? And I thought he meant that he couldn't find the show. or he couldn't see it on TV. And I was like, what do you mean? I was at work. And he's like, no, but where were you? What was that? He didn't understand. JON STEWART: [laughs] I like that your dad is just like one. of those bloggers on X who's just like, what's. with the new studio, Kaitlan? KAITLAN COLLINS: He's like, where's the old sign?

Can I have the old sign? And I was trying to explain to my dad--. he's going to kill me if he hears this--. that it's a digital sign. It's not a physical sign that's behind me with the logo. But anyway, it was quite funny. JON STEWART: He wanted swag? He wanted swag from the old Kaitlan Collins show? KAITLAN COLLINS: Yes, which I'm going to get it for him. It's maybe a little Father's Day surprise. JON STEWART: That's kind of you. That's a very good-daughter thing to do. That's a lovely thing. Father's Day's coming up. And you're going to get him the neon sign from your old studio.

I like that. If you were--. KAITLAN COLLINS: He would like that. It sounds insane, but my dad would find that adorable. JON STEWART: No, sounds like a good dude. Where does he live? KAITLAN COLLINS: My whole family lives in Alabama, which is where I'm from--. born, raised. JON STEWART: Where in Alabama? KAITLAN COLLINS: Right outside Montgomery. It's a city called Prattville. JON STEWART: OK. Oh, how big is that? KAITLAN COLLINS: That's, like, 38,000 people or so. Everyone thinks I'm from a one-horse, one-stoplight town, but it's actually a fully functioning city. and a great place to grow up. I love it.

I was just there a few weeks ago. JON STEWART: Oh, that's nice. You know, Alabama-- people have the impression-- it's got. kind of a hot comedy scene. Birmingham, one of the great cities. to play when you're touring or doing that kind of stuff. Alabama's kind of a-- the only problem I ever had in Alabama. was there was one area--. this was back when I was working at MTV--. where it was in between Alabama and Florida, and they called. it Flora-Bama. KAITLAN COLLINS: Well, what's your-- do you have. a problem with that place? Because I have said previously that if I ever get married, I want to get married at the Flora-Bama.

because I love it so much. And for people who don't know, Flora-Bama. is a bar that is on the Florida-Alabama State line. It crosses them. And it used to be a small package store, kind of shack-type thing. And now they've built it up into this massive bar. And what I love about the Flora-Bama. is you can be there on a Saturday night, listening to some cover band. There's underwear lining the walls. and hanging from the ceilings. And then, on Sundays, they host church. JON STEWART: That is correct. Yes! KAITLAN COLLINS: They host church on Sundays. So you can go and go to the service, get a Bloody Mary while you're there.

It's great. JON STEWART: The only thing I remember about Flora-Bama was. everybody made it pretty clear that it was. basically like being in international waters, that Flora-Bama--. KAITLAN COLLINS: There's no laws. JON STEWART: --when you were in this jurisdiction of this bar, it was like being on Silk Road, that, basically, whatever happened there, lawlessness or otherwise. Your job as White House correspondent, when you used to do that job, what time do you get out? Let's just go logistics for a little bit. What time, when you are a White House press correspondent, what's your day, hours-wise?

KAITLAN COLLINS: I think it depends on what. your responsibilities are. For a TV reporter who is on cable that. is covering the White House--. previously, during Trump round one, as I call it, we were on the clock, probably, till 10:00 or 10:30. JON STEWART: At night? KAITLAN COLLINS: Yeah. Because a lot of stuff happens at night, depending on who's. in office. You can always determine any president's like--. are they early, or are they someone who trends later? JON STEWART: Trump not a morning person? KAITLAN COLLINS: Trump is kind of 24/7, though. But I was looking at--.

I check his Truth Social in the mornings. I was looking at it today. JON STEWART: Jesus. I'm so sorry. KAITLAN COLLINS: He posted three times between 2:15. and 2:45 AM last night, about China. and the Fed Chair and what's happening on Capitol Hill. JON STEWART: Are those scheduled, or do. you think he's actually up? KAITLAN COLLINS: No, I think he's up. I think he's just-- he doesn't sleep that much. He sleeps, like, three, four hours a night. JON STEWART: You know, that breaks people. I don't know if you know this, but that's how. Stalin used to break people. He would only let them sleep three. hours, four hours a night, and they would go insane.

KAITLAN COLLINS: Yeah. Well, we wrote a whole story--. I was just thinking about this during the Middle East trip--. we wrote a story during his first term. about how a lot of White House staff. didn't love flying on Air Force One with him. on the way to a Middle East, or a foreign trip, because he doesn't sleep on the plane. And so they can't sleep on the plane because he's talking. or wants to meet or have these conversations. And so they land on the ground for this six-day slog. And they haven't slept at all. And I had one source who told me that the president sent.

someone to wake them up when they. were sleeping because he wanted to talk. to them about something. And they were just describing what it's like to be. a staffer on Air Force One. JON STEWART: So this whole thing--. we could have avoided this whole presidency if we had just. gotten him a friend, if we had just gotten. him somebody to talk to? He should be the country's social director, not the president. It's just, when do you sleep? If you're doing White House press corps duty. and then you're doing your show,

and then you're going with him on a plane to the Middle East, when are you sleeping? KAITLAN COLLINS: I definitely sleep more than he does. I will say that. I don't know. I don't sleep a ton, either, as well. But I think it's just because I don't like to miss anything. And you're always kind of paying. attention to what's going on. And after the show ends at 10:00 PM Eastern, I'm kind of still buzzing from our interviews. and what's been going on and still talking. to people after the show. And then you're up early in the morning to see what's going on.

But it's good. And the schedule is crazy. And it sounds, I think, insane. But I think after covering Trump round one. and then doing the 9 o'clock for a few years. before starting this, my expectations were totally. clear about what the hours would be. and how crazy it was going to be. JON STEWART: So let's talk about the cadence. difference, then. Because you talked about covering Trump once. So then when Biden comes in, is it like, all of a sudden, you're on a resort, in Sandals Resort? Like, nobody's bothering you.

What was the difference in terms. of how the pace of the day went or the rhythm. of your entire job? How did that shift? KAITLAN COLLINS: And I covered the first two years of Biden. And Trump was all I had ever known in terms of-- he was. the first president I covered, the first White. House I covered. So I never covered Obama or Bush. JON STEWART: Oh, I'm so sorry. KAITLAN COLLINS: But so that was my expectation, that, yeah, you're at the White House, and they say, hey, there's going to be a press. conference in 30 minutes. Get ready.

Meanwhile, I think Biden's first press conference, they announced it five days in advance. We knew so far in advance that it was happening. And so simple things like that were the biggest changes, I think, in terms of that. But Biden was actually quite busy during the first year--. and two years-- in office. Because, one, COVID was still happening when he took office. That was a huge thing for him, obviously, in terms of people. actually getting vaccinated because they. were starting to roll out. And, two, then Russia invaded Ukraine.

And that happened-- it was about. 10:30 PM Eastern when Russia first. started attacking Ukraine. I was at the White House when it broke out. JON STEWART: At 10:30 at night, you. were still at the White House? KAITLAN COLLINS: Yes. Because when there are certain things going on, you know to stay. Actually, the night Trump got COVID, I had stayed at the White House late for something, working on some reporting. And then was when we started to get word. that a close aide to him had gotten COVID, which, obviously, then, this was a huge moment.

And so we actually stayed on air that morning, I think, until 5:00 AM. We never left and just kept reporting it and covering it. And then, at 5:00 AM, you get home. And you kind of--. you can't go to sleep at 5 o'clock. in the morning, when you've just been covering history. And your mind is still racing. And covering the White House is just--. there is literally no job like it. And you always have to be prepared. that anything can happen. JON STEWART: Is it a job for--. I would find, for myself, I think--.

I'm slightly neurotic. So I would imagine that those nights--. KAITLAN COLLINS: Slightly? JON STEWART: Settle down, Collins. Let's not. [music playing]. Folks, all right, so we do ads on this show. You gotta do ads on this show. Every now and again, one of them comes across, and you're like, oh, damn! Is that real? And that's what we got today. We're sponsored by Incogni. Thousands of companies-- you know this-- collecting, aggregating, trading your personal data without you. knowing anything about it.

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Because that's what I was trying to do. Go to incogni.com/stewart. Use code Stewart to get 60% off an annual plan. incogni.com/stewart. Use code Stewart-- 60% off your annual plan. to take your personal data off the market today. Ooh, where you been, Incogni? Where you been all my life? [music playing]. I would imagine that I would constantly be thinking, oh, shit, I should have said, boom, or I should have--.

are you replaying the day's events, or are you working forward? What is your process? Because one of the things that I think suits. you so well is you have a directness. There's not a lot of wasted verbiage and things. You're very clear about what you want to do. I'm down with Collins. I think you're--. I'd say to them, let Collins ask the questions. Forget about going to these other idiots. Just let Collins ask the questions. That'll be fine.

But do you find yourself replaying or more. forward contingency planning? What's your process? KAITLAN COLLINS: I would never, ever compare myself. to an athlete, as someone who appreciates. athletes and loves sports and is a die-hard Alabama fan. But I do think in terms of how it operates on a daily basis. and how quickly it has to move. You do kind of have to think of it where, like, if the play happened and you didn't catch the ball. or do your job on that, you just.

have a few seconds to think about it. and move forward and try to improve. JON STEWART: You're going with the Ted. Lasso, gotta be a goldfish. You gotta forget the play and move to the next one. KAITLAN COLLINS: I don't know if you should forget it. I think you should keep it in the--. because you have so much to remember. as a White House reporter. And I think that if something happens. or an interview doesn't go the way I want it, or a press briefing--. I didn't follow up on the question in the way. I wanted to--. yeah, I lament over it for a little bit, and then I move on because there's. another moment coming up. JON STEWART: Was there one that stuck in your craw.

in a way that surprised you? KAITLAN COLLINS: There have been some. I think there was one--. there's been some press conferences where--. one thing I learned really quickly during Trump, which I actually think it was great training as a reporter, is becoming a reporter. Because you just have to be on all the time. And there's not really a ton of room for error. And so I was in the briefing during COVID, when there weren't a ton of reporters. because we were rotating to keep the presence small.

When Trump came in-- and we were. prepared to ask about ventilators. or swabs or something. And Trump comes in with this DHS employee. And they're talking about sunlight being a potential cure. and a treatment for COVID. And what you have to do, I think, as a reporter, is just be ready-- be quick on your feet, be ready to adjust. Yeah, you could have the best question, going in there, on ventilators or swabs and really need an answer to it, but you have to move on if the news is changing. or there's something--.

you're constantly registering what's important. and what's urgent. In terms of forward thinking, though, I really try to be forward thinking. I always keep a running list--. I was just updating one yesterday for someone. I'm trying to interview-- of people. I want to interview, who I have, right now, no shot of interviewing. They have not said yes. They're not even answering my calls. But I keep a running list. JON STEWART: This is a physical list that you keep. or on your phone? KAITLAN COLLINS: It's on my Notes on my--. JON STEWART: Who's number one? Let's go. Let's get it done. KAITLAN COLLINS: Well, I don't know if--. I don't know. I don't know if I believe in manifesting.

if I say it on the podcast. JON STEWART: Collins, I'm going to doggedly pursue this. like I'm Kaitlan Collins in the White. House press room until you give me a satisfactory answer. KAITLAN COLLINS: No comment. JON STEWART: How large is the list? Let me put it that way. KAITLAN COLLINS: It's constantly evolving. Because sometimes I do succeed and can knock people off of it. But around the election, I had, like, six people that I really wanted to interview. before the election. Because I thought, there are certain voices. in certain moments. And that's the art of interviewing. and the difficulty, which you know very well, which is you. don't want to just interview anyone whenever. You want them in the right moment, when.

people want to hear from them. And that is my daily battle is booking guests, booking. the right guest, and trying to get. people to come on and talk and be willing to sit. for an interview. And I'm always in the best mood when I've. booked someone really good. Or when we got Attorney General Bill Barr for an interview--. we interviewed him twice. JON STEWART: Boy, was that a nice one. KAITLAN COLLINS: Yeah. But I had a running list of questions for him. long before he said yes because I. was just always hoping that he would say yes to me eventually.

JON STEWART: Right. I feel like interviewing Bill Barr-- it's like interviewing, I don't know, charcoal. He's just this-- like, there's no--. yeah. Well, you would say that. That is something you would say. It's so matter of fact. And you have to protect yourself, I would imagine. I sometimes get very emotional when I'm doing those. But I notice you're able to not take the bait of the moment. You stay on what you're doing. Trump can say, that's a dumb question.

Nobody watches you. But you don't seem to take the bait. Is that something you have worked on, or is that something that is part of your personality? KAITLAN COLLINS: I truly don't think there's anything. that the president could say to me that would really. surprise me because I'm so familiar with his tactics. or how he is. He did this at our town hall. This happened before when he kicked me out of an Oval event, when he wouldn't let me go to any other events at the White. House because he didn't like the questions. asked in an Oval Office event.

It's often a tactic, I think, and a deflection. tactic in terms of not wanting to answer the question. And so I also think that, as a reporter, you have to go into these moments prepared for anything. And if you really are, and you're not expecting. to be treated super nicely and for them. to call on you and everyone to wait for you to get. your question out and assume that you're operating. in good faith, if you go into it ready for that, then nothing can really throw you off. And I think truly, also, you have to remember, what are you doing there?

You're there to ask a question. I'm not there to get in a back and forth with the president. about ratings or my credibility or whether he likes me. or doesn't like me that day. The point is-- because that's a distraction from asking. about the person who the administration. admitted was wrongly deported, and. what are they doing with that? And so I think that's always just my goal is to not get. thrown off of what I'm going in there to do, which is my job. JON STEWART: And it's so interesting. Because I would say this White House--.

and you can compare it, having been. in-- you talked about tactics. It feels like they're very well practiced. in how not to actually answer what they're being asked. And it almost feels, at times, like an exercise. in artificial intelligence. Like, this press secretary feels a little bit. like a Turing test. It's just so focused on delivering. So all the questions are, what is.

the statement that I'm going to receive that's been designed? And oftentimes, those statements. are filled with falsehoods and misdirects and things. like that. How do you break through this kind of artificial. intelligence that you're--. you're sitting there, in real time, as you said. You've got all this preparation. And she's just delivering a line. Well, even the other day, when you asked her, I think, about--. I think it was what the OMB had said or what the--.

was it Office of Management and Budget? KAITLAN COLLINS: Yeah, about the CBO score--. JON STEWART: The CBO score. KAITLAN COLLINS: --and how much the bill's. going to add to the deficit. JON STEWART: That's right. And you had brought up what it had been scored at. And she went into a whole thing about, they're always wrong. And they were wrong by a half a trillion dollars. But she provided no context on the idea. that they had said we wouldn't generate $1.5 trillion, and we ended up not generating a trillion. So it was still a huge deficit problem. KAITLAN COLLINS: Right. And, also, a lot of what was said.

there wasn't true about how they-- their scores. are, actually, pretty good. But you have to choose your moments. JON STEWART: And the gold standard for what people. use for legislation. It just is what it is. KAITLAN COLLINS: And we're working on this for tonight. for the show, but there's so many moments-- and Democrats do. this, too, where they criticize and villainize the CBO when. they don't like what it's saying about what. they would like to get passed. But when it says something that they. do like or something bad about their opponents, then they are all about the CBO. And so the CBO is getting thrown around like a. football here.

And also, there's four--. I counted four independent analyses. outside of the government that also say. it will add to the deficit. So, anyway, that's what multiple experts who. don't have a dog in the fight say. about what the bill will do. But in terms of--. I think no press secretary really wants. to fully answer your question. I think that, oftentimes, they do try to take whatever you ask. and use their talking points or say what they. would like to put out there. And that is where it comes back on the reporters, I think, to ask a smarter, direct question that can't.

really be answered with talking points, or anyone listening to it would say, well, that wasn't really. an answer to that question. And also, the key is in following up. I think one thing that has happened in the press corps, and also should happen more, I think, regularly for anyone is, if a question doesn't get an answer. and then they move on, another reporter should ask. that question and should follow up and say, well, actually--. but that's the key of listening and being there in the moment. JON STEWART: So I'm going to--. I don't know if you're familiar with John Mulaney, who's a comedian-- very funny. KAITLAN COLLINS: Yeah.

JON STEWART: So he's doing a show on late night. And this is going to seem like a weave, Collins, but it's not. It's not a weave. KAITLAN COLLINS: Well, I'm familiar with the weave, so I'm good with it. JON STEWART: You're familiar with the weave? So it's going to seem like it. So on his program, he's doing a everybody's-live show. And he's set up a thing where he's going. to fight three teenagers--. John Mulaney. John Mulaney is an adult man. He's a large man. He's probably-- I'd say he's 6', 6' 1". He's not the strongest guy in the world, but he's beefy for a comic. He's going to fight three teenagers. KAITLAN COLLINS: Low bar. JON STEWART: Settle down.

There's no reason to go there. KAITLAN COLLINS: [laughs]. JON STEWART: So he's going to fight three teenage boys. Now, not one of these boys measures up. to Mulaney in terms of sinewy, old-man strength or anything. else along the terms of the leverage and the way to fight. And the fight, which happens at the end of the show, is chaos. He's running around, and there's three kids, and he grabs one, and then he grabs another. And then something happens, Kaitlan. What do you think happens? KAITLAN COLLINS: I don't know. JON STEWART: The hive learns. The three teenagers realize, oh--. KAITLAN COLLINS: Power in numbers.

JON STEWART: --if we work together, if I grab one leg, and I grab one leg, and we get him on the ground, you can choke him out. Why don't the White House press corps. learn from these teenage boys, Kaitlan? Teenage boys learned this in 30 seconds. of fighting John Mulaney. Why don't you guys, if the purpose of this. is to break through the defenses--. because that's what they are.

This is a battle between real information. and a political machine that does not want to offer it up. So there's real strategies here. Why don't they do that? KAITLAN COLLINS: One, that was a really good weave. and, I thought, an apt weave. JON STEWART: Thank you. Appreciate that. KAITLAN COLLINS: But I actually think that we do. And maybe it's not perfect, and there should be more of it. I'll take that point. But I think--. I mean, I'm thinking right now we had a lot of complaints. from White House officials when the group chat broke.

And we could see all the information in there. We could read the texts. I talked to retired four-stars who said, that's classified information. There's no doubt in my mind. This isn't a political statement. It's classified. I can read it. I know classified information. And there was a day at the White House. where they were just denying that it was classified. That was their position. And I think the question probably. got asked four different times, five different ways. inside the briefing room in terms of how they could make. that argument that it wasn't classified. and what they were basing that on.

And it was reporter after reporter asking the same thing. And there was a real frustration. on the White House's side. But it wasn't that every reporter wanted. to ask the same question. It was just that it wasn't getting a sufficient answer. And so people kept asking. And I think there is a power and a strength in that in terms. of following up on something and seeing what they say. or, because the White House has been saying, this is not going to add to the deficit, following up on that because so many different things say. that it will add to the deficit.

And so I do think there's strength in that. JON STEWART: Is there any kind of-- to go back to, maybe, the sports metaphors-- is there a pregame. meeting for the White House correspondents. where you guys can sit--. look, there's no question they have a meeting. We know enough about how the White House works that they sit. in a meeting, and they try and conjure up, these are the questions that are going to come, and this is the way that you have to answer it. Could there be an analogous meeting that takes place.

for all the White House correspondents, almost like where they're a team, as well? Team Information or Team Truth or whatever. you want to call yourselves, by the way, would make fabulous T-shirts. And I don't want to get into the merch right now, but I think there's a real merch opportunity here. KAITLAN COLLINS: For the White House. Correspondents' Association? JON STEWART: It's certainly better. than that fucking dinner, I'll tell you that much. KAITLAN COLLINS: Well, maybe if we wore T-shirts at the dinner, people would like it more. JON STEWART: All right. I think they might. But do you get my point? KAITLAN COLLINS: I get your point.

But then I think the other side of that is reporters aren't all. working for-- the administration, that's. all the comms and press staff all working. together under one boss. We all work at different organizations. We have different viewerships, different audiences. JON STEWART: But for, purportedly, the same goal, no? KAITLAN COLLINS: For the same goal but different. questions on--. the problem is-- or not problem but, I think, the challenge-- is there's also different things to ask about. There are so many topics going into a press briefing, where. I have, probably, about one a week, or going into an Oval Office meeting. with the president, where, typically, it turns in.

to press conferences that I think. different reporters have different things. that they want to ask about. And I think that's fine. We're not a monolith. And different people want to ask different things. We don't all have to ask about the same thing. I just think, oftentimes, there is one. pervasive story of the day. Or I think of when President Trump was meeting. with President Bukele in the Oval Office right. after the Supreme Court said that they needed. to facilitate the return of the guy who. was wrongly deported there. I was kind of surprised that it actually had not.

been brought up in the first several questions. until it got to me. And oftentimes, Trump does not call on. me first when we go in there. JON STEWART: But he does still call on you. I will say this. He can be very antagonistic with you, but it's also pretty clear that he likes sparring with someone. of quality and that he does--. I almost think he needs it. He needs to be challenged by someone that he thinks has. some gravitas or authority.

Otherwise, I don't think it challenges him. The game's not fun for him unless he feels like he's. going to get pushed somehow. KAITLAN COLLINS: Yeah. And I've heard from sources and White House officials. around him, and just people who are his friends. and his allies, who say he does like that. And he actually doesn't speak fondly. of people who ask him really easy. questions or silly questions. I think, oftentimes, in the moment he'll say, I love that question or that was a great question. But I think, also, he respects tough questions. and often takes them.

And he won't come to me first, typically. This has been a pattern that has developed this term. But he will eventually come to me, maybe two or three questions in, and typically wants to hear--. there was a moment where, in the Oval Office, he said, OK, everyone. Let's see what she's going to ask today. And, of course, my question was perfectly normal and on topic. JON STEWART: I remember that. And he said-- what did he say--. why do you have to ask such a nasty question or something. along those lines. KAITLAN COLLINS: Yeah. He asked why I couldn't just say thank you--. JON STEWART: Why couldn't you just say thank you.

KAITLAN COLLINS: --when we were questioning about the guy. that they said was wrongly deported to El Salvador. And so yeah. But I think the most important part is going in there. and making sure that the questions that. need to be asked get asked. And we can't always choose the answers. JON STEWART: So what's a successful interaction? In your mind, when you're in there, and you're going to-- and I think. part of it is people don't--. the speed of all this and the fact that it's a constant churn. plays to the advantage of the White House. Because I think, as you said, they're working together,

and they're facing off a bunch of independent contractors. that are somewhat scattered in terms of what they want. So what's, in your mind, a successful interaction? Is it just to get the question? Or is it, in your mind, to get something that reveals a truth? Or is it to set, like, a tent post of their response. that you can deconstruct later on-- in other words,

get them to take a position, understanding. that, in that moment, you won't be. able to litigate that position as well as you might. in the future. So that sets something up that allows you, later on, to really dissect it in a way that. gets to what the actuality is. KAITLAN COLLINS: I think all three, honestly. Because, one, you do want to get them on the record. and just what their answer is. And maybe you're not going to litigate it with, oh, well, actually, that's not what.

that says, or here's facts that don't. back up what you're saying. You may not always have that moment, especially. in an Oval Office spray. It's very crowded. JON STEWART: Wait. They call it a spray? KAITLAN COLLINS: That's what we call it. JON STEWART: (DISAPPOINTED) Oh, really? KAITLAN COLLINS: I know. We have this terminology that makes no sense, like the pool, the spray. Sometimes it's more of a fire hose than a spray. JON STEWART: Fair enough. Yeah, I don't think I want to talk about this anymore. KAITLAN COLLINS: [laughs]. JON STEWART: It's making me very uncomfortable. KAITLAN COLLINS: We go in and-- but I. do think you want to get them on the record, one.

If the Supreme Court has ruled something or a judge. has struck down something they've done. or Elon Musk has come out against his bill, you want to get them on the record on that first. JON STEWART: Like his black eye was-- you got him on the record. saying, yeah, it was my kid. My kid punched me in the face because I asked him to. KAITLAN COLLINS: And I wasn't in the room that day. But I was watching it-- we weren't in the pool that day--. I was watching it. And the reporter who did ask, I was like, thank you. Because everyone who's watching is saying, wait, does he have a black eye, what's going on, and wondering what happened. And so it was--. that reporter didn't go into the room thinking,

I'm going to ask Elon Musk about his black eye. JON STEWART: But he noticed it. KAITLAN COLLINS: Yeah. It's just being able to do that in the moment. But then I also think, one, yes, you. want to stake a goalpost down. But, two, you do want to get an answer sometimes. But sometimes it's also just important to ask the question. Because I think a non-answer can be just as revealing. as an answer from a president. And so I think that is always the goal when you're. going in there and just thinking, what do the American people want asked?

What is their question on what's happening today, whether it be Elon Musk or courts or the Supreme Court. or whatever is going on? I think that is what you are in there to do. And that's the ultimate reminder. JON STEWART: When you were in there, that press spray that you were discussing, the one with Bukele. I have to say, that was one of the White House press. get-togethers that might have been the most dispiriting one. that I've seen, even more so than yelling.

at Zelenskyy to thank them while sitting. in the Oval Office. KAITLAN COLLINS: I was there for that, too. JON STEWART: Yeah, another-- and we'll. talk about that, as well. Because you've been there for some real--. normally, these things are very pro forma. The one thing I'll say about the Trump is things happen. Shit goes down when you're in there. The Bukele one, they were being so glib and almost playful. about a gentleman who may or may.

not have been whatever-- it didn't go. through the right process--. who is in what everybody agrees with. is one of the most disturbing prisons. on the face of the Earth. And they were being so coy and glib. And I found that incredibly disturbing. And I wonder if, while you're sitting in there, you felt that. KAITLAN COLLINS: Well, what was remarkable. was, typically, the president is.

the only one who takes questions. in a moment like that. He and whoever the other world leader is. will be the ones who you direct your questions to. Every other, now and then, he'll. ask other officials to speak, but he. doesn't often turn to people and ask. them to answer the question. And I was the first person to ask about what. the Supreme Court ruling was. And the president turned to Pam Bondi. And then he had everyone go turn by turn. And just to-- you can't always tell on the camera, but it is very close quarters inside the Oval Office. So Stephen Miller is probably a foot from me.

JON STEWART: Did it just get colder in here? Did I just-- KAITLAN COLLINS: Pam Bondi--. JON STEWART: Ooh, the hair on the back of my-- what was that? Don't say that name. KAITLAN COLLINS: [laughs] I'll go back. to talking about the sprays. Pam Bondi is in front of me. And, they all took turns answering the question to me. But they all kept deferring to President Bukele. and saying, well, it's only up to him. It's only up to him. But he is sitting there saying nothing, which I'm. kind of assessing the scene. You want to hear what the president is going. to say about this because, obviously, it could.

end up in a court filing. And then, finally, I asked President Trump, can President Bukele answer that question? You all keep deferring to him. And they also were misinterpreting--. or it wasn't totally clear if they had explained. to the president about what the Supreme Court ruling was. in terms of Trump kept saying that they won and that it was. a 9-0 decision in their favor. But if you actually read it, it was much more of a gray area, more nuanced than that, in terms of the determination. JON STEWART: Do you think that-- is the idea they hadn't. explained that to him, or the strategy is, we're.

just going to say we won? His strategy is generally, when he loses, he just finds a way to say that that was the victory. KAITLAN COLLINS: Or maybe both. JON STEWART: A little bit of both. KAITLAN COLLINS: Sometimes his attorneys will go to him. and say, this is the view of this, or this is how we're going to sell it. So it wasn't totally clear to me in that moment, as that was all coming out and they. were saying that they had won. But it was a remarkable moment to be in there. and then, also, to see President Bukele's response, which was he was saying, well, I can't smuggle a terrorist.

into the United States. Obviously, that's not what I was asking, but that's how he answered it. JON STEWART: But that's why it felt like they. were putting on a play. And the self-satisfaction that they had about this little play. was what I found so dispiriting. And I don't know if that's--. when you're in that room-- so let's say it ends. Do you then have an interaction with Pam Bondi, off-camera, or Stephen Miller, off-camera, or any of them,

where they go, what are you going to do? I guess it's up to Bukele. And they all giggle because they. know we're paying the guy $6 million. or whatever it is that we're paying him. Did they acknowledge to you the play they're putting on. or their self-satisfaction? KAITLAN COLLINS: Yes and no. Because, one, you're ushered out. The meeting is continuing. You go in just for what's technically the top of it. But, obviously, you stay in there much longer, typically, with Trump because he does take so many questions.

from reporters, which I think is a good thing. But then you leave, basically. And then you go through the press offices. You're escorted out back to the press briefing area. But I heard from a lot of officials that day, some who were watching and some who were in the room, who were. commenting on, one, just how it all went down. and how they answered those questions. JON STEWART: What was their perception, generally, of what they saw? KAITLAN COLLINS: It's a PR strategy, obviously, with them. Publicly, they say this. Because they're also arguing in court filings. that they didn't have to return him,

despite what judges here were saying and wanting. to do a review process of the communications. that had happened. And so you do have some people who will acknowledge that it's. not a black and white case, that they are obviously arguing. in the courts for a reason, but then, also, that they believe that they will ultimately win this. and that they didn't have to facilitate his return, which, obviously, they still have not done. JON STEWART: Do you feel like you get better answers. from people when it's not for attribution and not. for the cameras?

That's sort of getting back to my last point--. KAITLAN COLLINS: Yes. JON STEWART: --that the play that they're putting on. is the play, and then you have to facilitate the real--. so you feel like the answers you get off camera. are better than on? KAITLAN COLLINS: I think it depends. on who you're speaking with. At the White House, White House officials, yes. This is a tale as old as time. They're more candid when they speak. anonymously about something. But when we do the show at night, we're interviewing people on camera about this. And you're operating with the information. you know in your head about what.

people are saying on background, or off the record. And you use that to your ability. to be able to ask better questions. because you know what's really going on behind the scenes. JON STEWART: Is it a breach of ethics. to be able to say afterwards, I spoke with the people. in the White House afterwards. They did not want to be--. for attribution. Does that limit your access to then say, and they said, yeah, that was all a play they were putting on. They knew it was bullshit. It's self-satisfied. Here's the thing. We're just going to play this out in the courts.

as long as we can. We are not going to be giving people back. I guess what I'm getting at is the truth, the real information. I've always felt like, in the green rooms of news. organizations, you get more truthful. information than on camera. Because, on camera, people feel the consequences of what. they say. KAITLAN COLLINS: Yeah. But I think people should say on camera. what they actually think. JON STEWART: Completely, completely. KAITLAN COLLINS: But we think about this when. we have guests on the show. Because we like the people who-- maybe our audience. disagrees with them, or maybe they. don't like what they're saying, but I.

like people who come on and will tell. you genuinely what they think. And they're not saying one thing in the commercial break. JON STEWART: But that courage is in short supply, Kaitlan. The courage of people to do that is in very short supply. KAITLAN COLLINS: But I think when you put people on the spot. in the moment in an interview, and you're like, do you really think that, or is that really, the case here, I think that moment can be, in and of itself, revealing. Because I don't think that you should report one thing. and have one thing but actually know other stuff. I think you should report what you know and say that publicly.

And that is why I try to be very direct in my questioning. or in our interviews at night. We don't have a lot of fluff because-- no one really gets. away with an easy interview. JON STEWART: But that's what I like about it. and that's what I think is what makes it successful. and gives you that credibility. You don't see it a lot. And look, there's all that controversy. on your network about original sin and Tapper's book. And they talk to people. And then there's a lot of stuff on, well, people in private. would say, yeah, Biden's not up for the job, or he's not--.

but that wasn't really getting reported at the time, all those whispers and hums. But very clearly, people were disseminating it. I guess they call it an open secret. But it felt like very much an open secret. KAITLAN COLLINS: I talked to one White House official, pretty senior, who worked for Biden about this. and how they thought everything was playing out. And this person, I thought, actually made a good point, which was that a lot of the stuff with President Biden.

happened in public and on camera. The moments that some of his staff was most concerned about. were things he said on TV or how he was walking. or shuffling, his gait. And then they felt, actually, when they met with him one. on one, they felt better about how he was doing. and whether or not he was up to the job and running. And so, actually, this person was. saying that a lot of the things that were happening. with President Biden were out in the open. and in front of people's eyes. And you could see how he was doing and what was happening.

And I thought that was illuminating in terms. of just what this looks like. JON STEWART: I wonder if that's rationalization on their part. Because all of their strategizing. was to prevent people from seeing. even those private moments. There was something-- I think we did it on the show early. on-- where Kamala Harris was giving a very impassioned. defense of Biden, which, as your vice. president and somebody--. he's the most sharp out of anybody. He runs those meetings.

He does all this. And our response was like, has anybody filmed that? Because that'd be a great thing to put out there to dispel it. Because it was the kind of thing. that transparency and sunlight would dispel. If what they're saying is, oh, no, no, no, no, no, you. have completely the wrong idea, this is a much different thing. in private, that's a much easier thing. to dispel than, no, we're lying to you about this. and covering it up. And they didn't do that.

And in the same way--. I'll say this with the Republicans and Trump--. how many times have you heard reporting, in private, they say. they're tired of his bullying. They think he lies. They think this plane thing is corrupt. But nobody will speak it. KAITLAN COLLINS: Yeah. Well, and that's always incredibly illuminating, I think, too. And the one thing I think with any president--. Republican, Democrat, whatever-- there shouldn't. be a bubble around them. I understand that political staff is designed.

to insulate them or to minimize their mistakes. or spin their agenda. But I think no president should have a bubble around them. and that they should freely have access to reporters to ask. questions and question them. JON STEWART: Do they want that? Does a president want an honest evaluation. from people such as yourself, or others, about where you think they could do better. in terms of truthfulness? Because it feels like that's not their goal in any way.

KAITLAN COLLINS: Well, I think, for any politician, that's probably not exactly their number one. But, with President Biden, I always. found that if you asked him a question, he would answer it pretty directly. I remember when he had first taken office. And it was reported that the Biden DOJ was continuing. to basically not use warrants to get. reporters' phone records. They were continuing a practice that had happened under Trump. And, obviously, we know Obama did this, as. well, in his administration. And I asked President Biden about it directly. Would he put a stop to the DOJ policy.

if they believed in press freedom and access? And he said, yes. And I remember a White House staffer-- it was on a Friday. afternoon-- called me. Biden was coming out of some fluff event in the East Room. It wasn't an Oval Office spray. But I'd caught him. And I asked him. And he answered it. And a White House official told me they were already driving. home for the evening and had to pull over. on the side of the road and field. questions from the Justice Department. because they had to change the policy. and write a new policy because of how. he answered the question.

And so, anyway, my point is I think that you should be. able to access the president. JON STEWART: [laughing] Oh. Yes, it makes sense. KAITLAN COLLINS: It didn't make me very popular. JON STEWART: What it makes you wonder, and maybe this. gets to a larger position, look, you've been down there. now-- you're still very young-- but you've been. down there for a decade, yes? KAITLAN COLLINS: Yeah. JON STEWART: You've really been covering this for a long time. KAITLAN COLLINS: I've been at CNN for eight years. JON STEWART: And what I wonder is it's very hard for me, having observed it for these many years. and knowing what little I know about it,

having interacted with people who really do work down there. and trying to do some things to get some things done down. there, is that if it were on the up and up, wouldn't it be easier to cover it. if the atmosphere down there wasn't, I'm. going to do my best to obfuscate what's really going. on, the real information. If these policies were so beneficial or clear or not. corrupt or the corruption didn't exist. in meme coins and dinners and planes.

and all the other shit that's going on right now, it wouldn't be this hard. And I'm not saying that it wasn't that way prior, but if you watch--. and I'm sure you have--. press interaction between politicians. in the '40s and '50s and '60s, it's remarkable for its. candor and its clarity. The layers of consultants and strategy and polling. and all that have created a game of Clue.

where if you felt like if what they were doing really. was on the up and up, they wouldn't. need this much obfuscation. KAITLAN COLLINS: I also think part of that is how politics. has changed from being hyperlocal to being such. a nationalized thing in terms of everything. they do is aired on television, broadcast on social media, tweeted about--. every little thing. And so I do think that, in part, changes the behavior.

And I think this is something that has happened for decades. If you've studied the presidencies. and you're a student of history, from Nixon on down, just looking in modern history at how presidents have used. the office and how important journalism has been, this bill that just passed the House that is now. in the hands of the Senate, we were covering this last night. on the show, which is several people. who voted for it are now--. Republicans-- coming out and saying, well, if I. had known this was in there-- JON STEWART: Oops, yeah. KAITLAN COLLINS: --I wouldn't have voted yes. And yes, it is a long bill. It's 1,100 pages.

But these are-- your job as a lawmaker is to read this stuff. and then to vote yes or vote no. You are weighing the pros and cons of the bill. You're not going to like it all. But when you say, well, I didn't read this, and if I had seen that was in there, I wouldn't have voted for it, that's really stunning to me. in terms of--. JON STEWART: For those of you who. are listening at home, Marjorie Taylor Greene, I believe, is--. let's use her as the avatar for this. Her constituency complained that there's. a provision in there that makes it impossible for states. to pass any legislation that regulates AI for 10 years.

And she was let known of that online and immediately went, oh, my God, if I had known that, I never would have voted for this. KAITLAN COLLINS: Yeah. And Elon Musk comes out against it. And then two other Republicans were saying, well, every time we say we're going to reduce spending and reduce. the deficit, we never do. But that person voted yes on the bill. that adds to the deficit based on these estimates. And so I think that's why people feel. so disillusioned with politics, when.

you just talk to regular people in the country. I have just a lot of conversations with people, just by the nature of my job, either at campaign events. or even just on flights and going around. And I'm from the South. And I come from a town and an area that a lot of people. did vote for Donald Trump, not once but twice. JON STEWART: Three times, probably. KAITLAN COLLINS: Yeah. But we talk to people who, say, don't understand Trump voters. or the fervent people who show up at his rallies. And those are a different--.

they want to wait in line and hours and whatnot. But there's also people who voted. for him also because they were disillusioned with the choices. They didn't like either candidate, and they didn't feel that either person was really. going to do what they wanted. And I think that is often what you hear from people who don't. like what's happening in Washington, which is why. congressional approval rating is so low, and that are just completely disillusioned with what's. happening, in part because of the things you're saying right. there in terms of the personal enrichment that we're seeing. or congressional stock trading that.

is happening on both sides of the aisle that. drives people nuts. JON STEWART: And that's the part that I think he brings. Look, any time you have a chaos agent come in and say, I'm bringing change--. but the change he's bringing has. very little bearing to the things. that they had been critical of. And I think that's where the thing that affects me is it's. become such a game and such theater and so blatantly so.

And it's not even--. it's like off-off-Broadway local, we're going to put on The Music Man. And he really is the music man. I'm going to come in here, and I'm going. to get everybody instruments. And it's The Simpsons episode of the monorail. But they seem impervious to anything. that would get in between the bond between them. And like this bill, again, they all--. I have a problem with this, I have a problem with this. They're all going to fucking vote for it. They all talk about, Donald Trump's. got a real tightrope to walk.

No, he doesn't. Rand Paul won't vote for it. Maybe they'll get one other guy. Or maybe they'll play it out like, oh, they'll look around the Senate and go, who might suffer the consequences of voting. yes on the budget bill? OK, let them vote no. And we'll organize it as a tie. And JD Vance can come in and break the tie. They did the same thing in the House. Oh, he's never going to get a pass. It just feels like the whole thing is a game. in service of an individual.

KAITLAN COLLINS: I think the Senate confirmations also. basically were--. they told you what's going to happen. I do think you make a good point there. I think that it's very hard for Republicans. to turn down the president's signature legislation. We'll see how this plays out. Maybe it gets delayed. JON STEWART: Or even when you look at Cassidy with RFK Jr. Cassidy is like, as a doctor, I cannot sign off on this. And then an hour later, he's like, well, I mean, I could sign off on it. I just meant--. KAITLAN COLLINS: Yeah.

And we talk to people-- also, with Pete. Hegseth at the Pentagon. I was there for his confirmation hearing. And this is one of those situations to what you're. pointing to, what people were saying publicly. in those hearings and what they were saying privately. and the concerns that they had. There wasn't a lot of tough questioning by the nominees, by Republicans. Democrats obviously grilled them. They knew that was coming. They wanted to make sure they could. survive that, essentially. And, obviously, I think this is something that. happens on both sides, when Republicans. grill Democratic nominees.

I think anyone who is getting elevated to a job. like that, a taxpayer-funded job where you make. huge decisions that affect people, should be grilled by both sides of the aisle. And then if they pass that and people feel good about it, then you can vote for them. But that's just not the world we live in, obviously. And I think when all of Trump's nominees. got confirmed, essentially, it was a sign that the Republicans. are going to rubber-stamp, essentially, whatever. he would like to see happen. And the tariffs have only been further proof of that. I was talking to Pat Toomey, the former senator. of Pennsylvania-- big fiscal hawk.

And I said, do you think that Congress should. be doing more on the tariffs? This is, technically, their job, as. delegated by the Constitution. JON STEWART: They've abdicated it, right. KAITLAN COLLINS: And he said, yes, that he was surprised that Congress hasn't. played more of a role in that. And so it's just you're seeing that play out. So I agree with you that I don't think that there's going. to be some-- that they're not going. to die on the hill of this signature domestic policy bill. JON STEWART: Or, really, any hill. I don't know that there's a hill that they can. Because I think they believe-- it's such an interesting thing.

because what came first? Most of these people--. JD Vance was not the JD Vance that we see now. They all were like, this guy's Hitler. And now they're like, he's the greatest. I'm going to put him--. every morning I cut out a toast in his visage, and I toast him and butter him and eat him. KAITLAN COLLINS: That was quite the picture. you just painted there. JON STEWART: Thank you so much. And I think it is what happens. But at first, they do it because it's. politically expedient.

But then I think they become it. And I wonder how hard it's going to be to unwind it when. they no longer have the power of Trump's mass and gravity. holding that together. Because I don't know that there's. a consistent principle underlying any of it. that I can point to. It seems awfully disjointed. KAITLAN COLLINS: Yeah. And it is singular to Trump.

He has a special political pull that it's. hard to see any other politician who has. been able to do what he does. And you see people in his orbit who try to emulate it, and they often do not get away with it in the way. that he does. People around him will acknowledge this and whatnot. And I think the other part of it. is intellectual consistency, like the TikTok bill. It was a bipartisan bill. All of these Republicans and Democrats passed it. And then, now that they want to continue the extension. of, basically, the grace period for it,

there's only, really, one Republican. that has been coming out on this-- it's Tom Cotton-- who. has said, this is not what we voted for. and not what we all passed as a congressional body that. was signed into law by the president. JON STEWART: And it was because one of the owners of TikTok, I guess, became a huge campaign contributor. KAITLAN COLLINS: Yeah. And is a huge--. they had one of the most successful. lobbying campaigns, which is saying a lot in Washington. And so, yeah, I think you see things like that happen. I think the question, as reporters, is, how do we make sure that that.

is something we always question people on. or that we always bring up? One thing that we try to do, if we have had someone on who was. an election denier or didn't vote to certify the results, if they're coming on the show for the first time, it doesn't matter if it's in the news cycle, we'll still bring it up and ask them about it. Because I think that you can't just. move on from things and then never, because enough time has passed, you don't ever bring. it up again or talk about it. JON STEWART: When I think you're at your best--. and I think you're at your best a lot--. it's when I see you litigating the boundaries of our shared.

reality and doing it with--. I'm not saying ideologically. I mean sort of dispassionately. But that's when I feel like, do you see your job in some regard. as that, kind of a litigator for what. the boundaries of our reality are, authentically? KAITLAN COLLINS: Yeah. I think in the moment of--. you can be on a different side politically of an issue, or have a different view than Elizabeth Warren does of--.

Markwayne Mullin, a Republican Senator. that we have on, they have two wildly different views. They're allowed to have those views. They're Democrats and Republicans. People voted for them. But I think when you start saying things that just aren't. true or don't align with what's real, that's where, instead. of just saying, well, that's their opinion, there's things that are not opinions. There are things that can be tested and disputed. and are just not true. And I think that we have to-- we always try. to bring the interviews back to that in terms of, it's not an opinion about the election being stolen.

The election wasn't stolen. And so you can keep saying that, but we're going to say, well, that's just not true. That's not a brave stance, I don't think. That's just reality. JON STEWART: But litigating that reality, when you say it. like, yes, but it's unusual. Because, unfortunately, they swim. in that tank of obfuscation that makes doing that very. difficult. And I imagine, for you, it's. just a constant challenge. And then when you combine that with--.

I mean, the Elon-Trump marriage made it infinitely more. difficult, I think, for people that are trying to do what. you're doing, which is you've got the richest. man in the world, who controls maybe the most powerful media. platform in the world, aligning himself. as a force amplifier for the most powerful man. in the world, the president. And those two things together, I think, were kind of unstoppable. I think they were wildly anti-American and.

anti-constitutional but unstoppable. And now, obviously, there's whatever. pretend fight they're having. KAITLAN COLLINS: You don't think it's real? JON STEWART: No. I think this--. KAITLAN COLLINS: This reminds me of-- there. was an electric vehicle summit when Biden was in office. that Elon Musk did not get invited to, I think because they were not unionized, if I remember correctly. JON STEWART: That's what he was pissed off. Yeah, he was pissed off about that. KAITLAN COLLINS: And you think, if he was just invited. to that, things could be so different, the political realities-- maybe not. Maybe he still would have come over. and wanted to vote for Trump and support him.

But I do think of things like that in terms. of how the power balance--. like, when you're looking at the inauguration and all. the CEOs that are there, sitting in Trump's background, is fascinating to me. The Elon Musk thing, I think, is interesting. I do agree that he's not criticizing Trump directly. Trump has not said anything, based on what I've seen lately. But someone who knows both of them. described it to me as kind of mutually assured. self-destruction with the two of them. and that that is why they'd never. truly split or have some huge falling. out that people predicted.

Because Trump is the most powerful man in the world. Elon Musk is the richest man in the world. And they both kind of need each other and do like each other, I think, from what I've heard from a lot of people. JON STEWART: And mutually benefit. It's an alliance of benefit. And you can see that. We're going to build a golden dome. And, gee, I wonder whose tech company is going to be. at the forefront of that? Do you wonder? And I'm going to have to let you, because I know you got a shit ton to do because you.

got eight jobs, and you're going to have. to do them all in a day. But it brings us to that confluence. of I've not seen these titans of industry and media. and all these other things align themselves. with such passive fealty. I'm looking at it. I work for Paramount--. CBS, Paramount, Viacom. They're going to pay Donald Trump $20 million, $25 million, $50 million for nothing, for an interview.

that they edited that Trump says he didn't like. And they'll pay him that, and they'll probably apologize. Mark Zuckerberg had to give him $25 million. Elon had to give him $10 million. Is there a worry that you have with where you are. that that's also going to be-- because nobody. wants that smoke. None of these companies. Look what he's trying to do to Harvard. He will bully and intimidate all the people. that he knows he can while showing.

his real lack of ability to manipulate Xi of China or Putin. of Russia. So he's just going to crush the people. that allow him to crush them. KAITLAN COLLINS: I think when you look at that. and the dynamic of what's playing out, the best thing. I can do every day is just report on it and, I think, be as clear as possible about what's happening. and not try to sugarcoat it or give deference to it. I think it's just, say what's happening, and observe the reality, and make.

sure that people understand what. is happening every single day. And we do try to do that every single night on the show, or every day in the press briefings, or when we have moments where we're. questioning him on that very front in terms of with Harvard. I asked a Republican, what would. you think if a Democrat was doing. this to Liberty University? I don't think it would be the same response. that we're seeing play out. JON STEWART: Of course not. KAITLAN COLLINS: And the point of that. is that everyone says it's a slippery slope, and it's this, and it's that. But I just think, in terms of calling.

it out is probably the best thing that we. can do every single day. JON STEWART: Right. And continue to do it. And you're doing it very well, with great efficiency. Has the conversation amongst reporters changed? As you guys talk amongst yourselves collegially, what are their concerns? What are the concerns that are expressed. amongst that constituency? Do they fear that loss of editorial control? The Washington Post went from "democracy dies in darkness".

to, you can't run that cartoon. Get that-- what? What are you guys doing? KAITLAN COLLINS: And I think, as reporters, it's really important when you are in those tough moments. And we're the people who are coming face to face. and dealing with the White House every single day. and covering it from the campus. To have the backing of your organization. and to have your editors and everyone back you. up in your editorial decisions as you're being smart, you're being fair to the White House, you're including their comments, you're reaching out to them and getting.

the best version of the story that you're reporting. As long as you're doing all of that and doing your job right, I think you should have the backing of your organization. And I think, for reporters to be able to operate. with confidence in going in there. and not being afraid to ask tough questions. or to report a story that is not. going to be popular inside the West Wing, you need to have that. Because that is crucial to doing. your job on a daily basis. You can't be worried that it's going to face backlash. If it's true and it's accurate and you know it's right, then you should feel free reporting it. and feel free to ask questions that are tough or uncomfortable.

or not everyone's going to like them. Because that is our job. That is what we should be doing every single day. And I think that is something that a lot of the press corps. has at the top of their mind for anyone who's president. It's not just for Trump that you should be. a good White House reporter. Anyone who is the most powerful person in the land--. JON STEWART: He tests it more because of the manner. in which he governs and the strategy of it. But it's absolutely correct. And I think the takeaway here is that the news. shouldn't just be producible.

It should be exhaustive in principle. And I'm really not sure how you do the things you do and still. end up going to Knick games. It just doesn't make sense to me. It must be that you don't sleep, or maybe that's just what young people are now. They have energy, and they do all this shit. and still get to go to games. But I very much appreciated watching you. for all these years and seeing just how good you're getting. at it and all those things. And so, well done. And I hope you'll come back and talk to us again. soon in all your free time.

KAITLAN COLLINS: Yeah, so much free time. If you need a third producer, let me know. JON STEWART: Boom. KAITLAN COLLINS: But thank you, and great to talk to you. JON STEWART: Nice talking to you. Kaitlan Collins, CNN, the Source. Watch her, for god's sakes, you people. [music playing]. Here's what I love the most about it. So she takes the time. She's talking to us. And what happens at the very end? She looks down and goes, oh, shit. Trump just got off the phone with Putin. I gotta go. It's like-- and I'm just like, so, what's it like in the room?

Are the people mean? Do they like you? And she's like, oh, real work. SPEAKER 1: I know that she's really busy, but I also know that she's a Bravo fan. And if she could just find the time, I'd love to see her host a reunion. Because somebody needs to hold these women to account. And Andy Cohen is not doing it. JON STEWART: What? SPEAKER 1: Oh, yeah. She's a big Bravo fan. And I thought during that, I was like, you. know what she'd be great at? JON STEWART: How? How does she have--.

I mean, when you have a job as a White House correspondent. and then you have your own nightly show, how many housewives can you possibly keep up with? SPEAKER 1: I want, like, a day in my life from Kaitlan. Because I'm like, we have the same amount. of hours in the day. And how are you doing it all so well? SPEAKER 2: Especially since--. we spoke yesterday, Jon. And since then, until now, I have an endless list. of news that's happened. And then she comes on. She has work, bookending this podcast, and she's cool as a cucumber.

JON STEWART: And synthesize it. But I think that's the key to how well she does is. that she really doesn't take--. they are in a crucible. And part of the Trump team's strategy is to--. it's a psyop. In a lot of ways, I think they're trying to manipulate. the emotions and the people. And by taking it, you become less capable at doing the thing. that you're down there in Washington to do. And she does not take that bait. And I think, in some respects, what matches her. to the moment is she has a relentlessness.

and a tenacity that matches what they're throwing at her. And to her credit, she stays with it without ending. up looking like me, somehow. SPEAKER 2: I love what she said about. like continuing to ask election deniers that come. on her show about if they accept the results of the. 2020 election. Because I think we often hear the criticism. lodged at the media that they'll move. on to the next shiny object.

And it's so important to keep that context. when you're talking to people. JON STEWART: And she does. I think she does litigate clearly. in a way that doesn't seem designed to self-aggrandize. And one of the difficulties of that litigation strategy. is if it's designed for aggrandizement, it becomes less effective. SPEAKER 2: Absolutely. SPEAKER 1: She's really been crafting what she does. And you can tell. And I think that her dedication to that higher purpose.

was revealed to me as a former reporter when competition. didn't even come to mind when she was. talking about why someone wouldn't follow. up for another journalist. Because that is-- they're all trying. to get eyes for themselves and for their network. JON STEWART: And it's important to highlight it. Listen, I shit on the news a lot. And I think, for the most part, for good reason. and all those organizations. And I do think it's important sometimes to go, but that thing that's there, yeah, do more of that. Let's get more of that.

Because I think that can turn the tide for--. the press has been getting their asses kicked totally. But she was fantastic. Brittany, season 2. What do we got? What do they want to know on season 2? What's our first listener query? SPEAKER 1: Can I get a drum roll, please? JON STEWART: Brrr. Oh, hold on. SPEAKER 2: We're not supposed to hit the table. JON STEWART: I'm happy to-- hold on. SPEAKER 2: I thought those were forbidden. JON STEWART: Wait. Hold on. [laughter]. [taps with drumsticks]. SPEAKER 2: Yikes. JON STEWART: What do we got?

SPEAKER 1: John, how do you stay so informed? What is your news consumption routine? Break it down for us. JON STEWART: So that's so nice of them. to say because I feel utterly adrift. almost all the time in terms of synthesizing material. Because you have the material that you need to absorb. and synthesize to do these two jobs, the one hosting The Daily Show, and then this thing. So I feel very narrowly informed for that.

But it's still sort of ephemeral because you do it, and then you have to let it go. Or you get a good author, and you read the book, and then you have to let it go. So I constantly feel under-informed, in general. But what I think they're asking is, what news sources do you--. I happen to like Bloomberg Radio. I leave it on all the time. I mix it in with a little bit of NPR. or check in on the 24 hours just to see what I don't like.

But I like a clarity of information. And they provide that in a way that. strikes me as illuminating without the toxicity. that you see. It doesn't feel designed to outrage or misdirect you. So I'd go with that. But, Jesus, I wish I had a better answer.

But I always feel woefully under-informed. SPEAKER 2: It's so crazy to hear you say that. SPEAKER 1: Yeah. The more you know, the more you know you don't know. JON STEWART: That's right. Because you want to know it all. I think I get mad at how much is out there that I don't know. It bothers me. Anyway. SPEAKER 1: Pretty impressive how much you do know. JON STEWART: What else they got? What else they got? SPEAKER 1: How is history going to look back on Elon's 100-plus. days in government? JON STEWART: Oh.

I think everybody thinks it's--. I think people are talking about it like, it's over. It's not over. That was the first-- that was an official, explicit. confluence of the richest man in the world. and the most powerful man in the world sitting next. to each other, seeing how they're. going to divvy up the spoils and how it's going to go down. But it is still unofficially, implicitly--. they are still together, collaborating. on despoiling whatever it is.

And he will still use his media might. and influence to shape things. And Trump will still shower him with the spoils. that go to those that are in favor of the king. And this story, we're not even there yet. Here's how history will look back-- oh, yeah, I remember. the beginning of the story. I don't know what this story is going to be, but this is just the beginning-- just the beginning. SPEAKER 2: It's hard to imagine him ceding the power that he's. had and just going back to being a CEO.

that tweets about video games. JON STEWART: There's no way. Now, they may make theater of it. But the idea that he's now going. to spend his life perfecting the Y model, fuck that. He's already tasted being a creator. and destroyer of worlds. Once you feel the ring, you don't give it back. Now he believes himself to be searching. for the Infinity Stones.

And that pursuit won't end for any of these fucking guys. SPEAKER 1: Yeah, I think that was my thought was, I hope we don't look back and we're like oh, quaint, because it only gets worse. JON STEWART: Right. Well, that was like--. so we had on Carol Cadwalladr, who broke the Cambridge. Analytica story in terms of how they were. using people's Facebook data to target. them for all these things. And I said to her now-- this was, I think, 2017, 2018-- and I said, now, how do you look back on that? And she's like, the good old days. She looks back on it like, oh, yeah, that was when they first.

discovered the code that they were going. to use to control the world. SPEAKER 2: When it was only mildly terrifying. SPEAKER 1: Aw. JON STEWART: There you go. All right, how do they get in touch with us, Brittany? SPEAKER 1: Twitter, we are weeklyshowpod, Instagram threads, TikTok, Bluesky. we are weeklyshowpodcast. And you can like, subscribe, and comment. on our YouTube channel, The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart. JON STEWART: Yeah man. And we are back, baby. I did it. I jumped out. I pulled my-- I did the thing. I shouldn't have done that. I've been really trying not to do that. But fantastic.

And, as always, it's so good to see you all. Fantastic job, as always. We couldn't do it without our fabulous staff and crew, lead producer Lauren Walker, producer Brittany Mehmedovic, video editor and engineer Rob Vitola, audio editor and engineer Nicole Boyce, researcher and associate producer Gillian Spear, and our executive producers Chris McShane, Caity Gray. That's it. See you next week. [music playing]. The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart. is a Comedy Central podcast that's produced by Paramount.

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