Jon Stewart, Jon Favreau & Jon Lovett on Political Bubbles & Taking on Trump | The Weekly Show

JON LOVETT: Trump is like the clown from It. He's like Pennywise. [laughter]. And he's in the sewer. And all these Republicans, all these Republicans. are, like, crawled down next to the sewer. And they're, like, I don't want to go down there. I don't want to go down there. And he's, like, come, we all float down here. [music playing]. JON STEWART: Hey, everybody. Welcome to The Weekly Show Podcast. I always do this. Whenever I say welcome to The Weekly Show Podcast, for some reason, I do a dip. I lift myself out of the chair. It has become a very strange tic.

And now that I have said it out loud and made all of you. aware of it, I'm going to be even more self-conscious. But I'm going to try not to. I mean, it is a podcast, so you actually don't even. know that I was levitating unless you're. watching it on YouTube. This is what happens when you are a neurotic individual, and you want to start your podcast. with a bold and exciting statement of what's going on. in the world, and you end up doing two minutes. on a physical tic that you have no idea.

where it is emanating from. So I apologize most sincerely. We're taping this on Wednesday. It's probably going to air on Thursday. I don't know about you, but this is the first podcast. taping that we've done under the protection. of our glorious golden dome, the new golden dome, the space. laser, missile fighting Death Star. And it's only going to take $125 billion, which I'm just going to go out on a limb.

here and say is somewhat low. My guess is if you want to build a domed. missile defense system, satellite-driven, I'm sure Starlink-driven--. gotta throw money to your boys--. my guess is we're talking a trillion-plus. over a long period of time. But, hey, what's money as long as poor people. aren't allowed to have soda?

Anyway. By the way, this is the end of our first season. I know it sounds strange because it's May, and I guess we typed it to the school year. But this is the end of our first season, and obviously, we'll take a week off, and then, I guess, start the second season, for God's sakes. But we are excited today to talk about the state. of politics with some individuals. who the basis of their brand is that in its entirety. So let's get to our guests for today. [music playing].

Today we are absolutely delighted to be joined. by Jon Favreau and Jon Lovett, founders, Crooked. Media, hosts of Pod Save America, Love it or Leave It, and Offline. Three people talking today, not an H in any of their names. JON FAVREAU: Thank God. JON STEWART: It's a J-O-N fest. JON LOVETT: Yeah, I don't know. We're Jewish. That's our excuse. What happened to you?

JON FAVREAU: My dad had a Jewish roommate. And he loved the name Jonathan, because that. was the name of his roommate. That's how I got it. JON STEWART: Your father named you after his roommate? [laughter]. JON FAVREAU: Not after him, but he liked the name from that. He liked the Jonathan. So that's how I became Jonathan. JON STEWART: It's a very interesting, yet somewhat suspicious. JON FAVREAU: I am Catholic, though. JON STEWART: All right. Is that an unusual for Catholics? Is the H generally a part of it? Is it a sacrament? JON FAVREAU: Usually, yeah.

I mean, John was a big deal, you know? JON STEWART: Really? JON FAVREAU: He was, yeah, a big disciple. JON STEWART: Right. What would he think of Pope Leo? JON FAVREAU: That's a good question. I'm a Pope Leo fan. JON STEWART: I'm a fan of any pope that is a baseball fan. I like the idea that the Holy See, after doing all the homilies and spreading the incense. and all that, he just turns around and goes, can you fucking believe what Judge did? Can you? This guy is like Babe Ruth.

JON FAVREAU: It's great. It's great. JON STEWART: Gentlemen, I want to talk. to you today about some things that are going on. The first thing is you two are, if I may, and I don't mean this to be disrespectful, you are Democratic insiders. And I want to know why you withheld information. on Joe Biden's mental condition and how. you left this country in the state that you left it in. Jon, you can go first. Catholic Jon and then Jewish Jon. JON FAVREAU: OK. JON STEWART: Is that really how I'm going to have to delineate? JON FAVREAU: That's a good idea, yeah. JON STEWART: Catholic Jon and Jewish Jon.

[laughter] JON FAVREAU: Yeah. JON STEWART: And then also Jewish. Jon. JON FAVREAU: Beginning of a joke? I don't know what you're talking about. I think Joe Biden has never been sharper, never been better. JON STEWART: You are famously on record. as saying you cannot believe that the Democrats. ditched Joe Biden. [laughs]. JON FAVREAU: I actually can't believe it, because for a while there, we didn't think. he was going to step down. But he did. Yeah, no, look. I think obviously, I know you were saying this on your Monday.

show, but everyone has to start with we're all feeling very. sorry for Joe Biden's diagnosis and the fact. that his family has to deal with that. So we all, of course, wish him a speedy recovery. JON STEWART: Let's dig in. JON FAVREAU: And there's the but. And there's the but. JON STEWART: Yeah. I've been watching this now for three days. And listen, I'm in the club, too, ripping the shit out of this. We make up these two dimensional caricatures. of politicians and all those sorts of things.

And then this happens. And watching everybody have to do almost like a disclaimer, or like something you see at the end of an alcohol. commercial, which is like Budweiser urges. you to drink responsibly. And you're, like, Budweiser doesn't give a shit. JON LOVETT: Yeah, it's the Gambling. Anonymous sign inside the bathroom at The Wynn. [laughter]. But the thing is, it feels strange to do. But I also think maybe it's good that we do it. It's like a little homily to remind us. all that we're human beings.

And even though these are political figures, we're not doing it for Joe Biden. We're not saying it because we think. Jill might hear this podcast. It's a little bit of a performance of sympathy, because we should feel that empathy and that concern. Even though, in reality, because of what the stakes were. in 2024, the truth is the actual experience of Joe Biden. and his family for the country is not that important. What mattered is what happened to the country. and the decisions that were made.

And I do think there are a lot of reasons people were not. honest about what they were seeing, some of which. are, I think, around mercenary personal reasons. Some of them because they didn't. want to lose their access or feel as though they. were going against the grain. JON STEWART: Name names, Lovett! I see you dancing around. Name names! JON LOVETT: I'm not. Name names. [laughs]. Everybody, everybody.

But one part of this that I do think has not been--. and I think I've been reflecting on this, too. Because we went to the White House. and saw Joe Biden, who had just come back from a trip. And I don't think-- it wasn't as, I think, egregious as what you hear in the audio. around the Hur report. JON FAVREAU: This was April of 2020. JON LOVETT: And he was rambling. And he was hard to follow. And he repeated a story. But then we were assured by people around him. that he was just exhausted. And then we were at the fundraiser, obviously, the famous Clooney fundraiser.

And I think people inside maybe weren't. being honest with themselves about what they were seeing. But I know from my own point of view, part of what. was a challenge was because Joe Biden seemed. so hellbent on staying in. Right? I never wanted to be dishonest about what. I felt we were seeing. And by the way, we were getting shit about talking about Joe. Biden not doing enough to overcome. the questions around his age long before he dropped out. We were talking about it.

We were trying to be honest about it. JON STEWART: Yeah, everybody talks about that this. all began after the debate. But I think, very clearly, polls were showing a year. before that people felt that he was not in a position. to run for reelection. People were talking about it before then. The debate was kind of the we're all worried. about a hurricane event. And then the hurricane hit. But people were talking about it. JON LOVETT: But I think the point. I was going to make about just my own perspective on it. was I remember feeling I want to talk about this.

as a huge liability. I want to talk about this as something. Joe Biden can overcome. But I'm not going to go so far as to say I. think Joe Biden must drop out. He is too old to be president. A, because I didn't know exactly what was. going on behind the scenes. But B, if Joe Biden is the candidate, I want him to fucking win because I. care about the country. And I don't want to be somebody suddenly having the words we're. saying taken out of context and, all of a sudden, part of the case against Joe Biden. from the right that would use any person.

criticizing Joe Biden from the left as a weapon against him. So it was about being honest about Joe Biden's age. as a liability, while knowing that if he is the nominee, I want to be clear that I thought it was. important to make sure we did everything. we could to reelect him. JON STEWART: So let's talk about that. Because this is what I think is the crux of this, and it's something I've been trying to wrap my head around, is that everyone talks about the cover up.

without talking about the system that is. designed now around politics. And it's always been this way to some extent. I don't think the cloaking mechanism. that they've-- now it's that coat from Harry Potter. But politics and media, in its symbiotic relationship, it all seems like cover up now. Watergate, the big thing was it's not the crime, it's the cover up. First of all, it's the fucking crime.

But second of all, I think now the lesson that came out. of Watergate is we really then just have to be. better with the cover up. And in some extent, and you guys. know enough about the inside part of this. to maybe help me out, but even what you're just talking about, Jon, is I want to be careful about the truth that I see. and speak because I know the machinery so well, that they.

will weaponize my insight. JON FAVREAU: Yeah. So I think that a big problem with the Democratic Party. over the last several years, decade maybe, maybe even back. to the Iraq War, we have a hard time hearing hard truths. and admitting hard truths to ourselves, and then we have a hard time telling. hard truths to the voters. JON STEWART: By the way, it's not like the Republicans are, like, we're an open book. We're very reflective. JON FAVREAU: Yeah.

JON STEWART: Well, that's what I'm saying. Politics is all that now. JON FAVREAU: Yes. And I think throughout Biden's term, you had it with the age issue. You also had it with inflation. In the Biden administration, a lot of elected Democrats. were like, oh, look at all the statistics and the numbers. And then poll after poll and focus group and focus group, people would be, like, no, actually, prices are high. And that's really bothering me. And we'd just be, like, oh, that's just the media, or that's just Republicans. And the same thing happened around Joe Biden's age. I think the closer you got to Joe.

Biden, the closer the advisor or the family member, the more. I think they were not just lying to the American people, but lying to themselves about Joe Biden. And I think it was a little bit like--. for some people in the White House, I know, it was like a boiling frog kind of thing. And so they would be close to Joe Biden. They'd see something that was a little weird, but then he'd have some good days. And then people who left the White House. and then would come back, like, six months later, a year later,

and see Joe Biden would be, like, oh, my God. It's gotten so much worse. And that's not to excuse it at all. JON STEWART: No. I want to talk about what are these mechanisms now? How much of it is the way that the political machine. is so designed to protect the power. that it no longer functions. It really functions as a reality distortion field. as opposed to, like--.

and we're using Biden as an example, and we'll move beyond that to get to a broader case, I think. But going back to the Biden case, it's a pretty simple kind of debugging, which is--. so everybody goes on television and goes you don't understand. I sit with this guy. He's the smartest one in the room. I can't keep up with him. I'm exhausted. I went to a meeting with him and he was using words. I didn't even know were words. They were fantastic. I had to look them up. He's the smartest man in the world.

Kamala Harris comes out and says I sit this man. You don't understand. You don't see it. And I'm, like, oh, has anyone filmed that? Because you should show that. Because it was a very simple case to puncture. People are saying I'm a little concerned about his stamina. and cognitive ability. Here's how we can dispel that. Just put him out there and let him show. us how fucking smart and--. and they wouldn't do it because they knew they couldn't.

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That's-- [stammers]. Should I add that up? It's an additional 50%. When you head to smalls.com, use promo code TWS, promo code TWS for an additional. 50% off your first order, plus free shipping at Smalls--. you can't afford not to do it. [music playing]. JON FAVREAU: Look, this is where. you talk about the machine. I think this is much more human. I think the sad and maybe frightening. part about all of it is that it wasn't really designed.

It was just a bunch of people making decisions day-to-day. JON STEWART: Jon, you don't think that the PR people. and the press people and Donilon. and all his advisors sat and designed. a strategy to make sure that the president. was not put in harm's way? They didn't design teleprompters and keep. him out of press briefings? JON LOVETT: Oh, I think they're slowly managing. Look, there's no day you are competent. and up to the job of President and then a day.

where you're suddenly not. It's a slow degradation. We know that, yes, I think there's. there was some effort to delude the public, but also people deluding themselves. We know that because they put him out there for that debate. The debate was supposed to be the moment he proved. all of his critics wrong. Now there were a lot of signs that they did not trust Joe. Biden in interview settings. He was doing fewer and fewer interviews. His schedule was being contained.

But they put him out there for that debate. JON STEWART: They said he was using teleprompters. in small gatherings. JON FAVREAU: I think what they say to people, and what they said to people even then, was if there was. an acknowledgment that he had slowed down, they would say, you know what? From the performance angle, like his ability. to communicate, yeah, he's maybe slowed down. He shuffles a little more, all that kind of stuff. But in terms of decision making as president, he's never been sharper. And of course, that's something that's. difficult for people outside the inner circle to judge.

Because all of us can see that performance-wise, he's not so great. But we can't really be second guessing. the decisions he makes. Or we can, if we disagree with the decisions. But there was nothing obvious there. And so no, to your point, yes, they. were trying to hide him from the public as much as possible. during the campaign, the prompters, the schedule, the making sure he doesn't do too many events, making sure his speeches were short. Because they knew he wasn't a good performer.

and couldn't do that part of the job. But they just kept telling people. he could do the other part of the job, you know? JON STEWART: Right. But those things, for the presidency, are not performances. They're a crucial aspect. JON FAVREAU: Yeah. JON LOVETT: It was a huge fucking disaster. [laughs]. JON STEWART: Uh oh, I just woke Lovett up. Here we go. JON FAVREAU: Earlier than he's usually up. JON LOVETT: Jeez. It's early for me. But this is where it's sort of, like, all of this.

was playing out in public. It is a little bit like what if, in Iran-Contra, Reagan. had exchanged the guns for cash and brought. some Sandinistas out on stage at his debate, at the presidential debate? A lot of the cover up is of what we all were seeing. The American people had decided Joe Biden was too old. And to me, I think back on 2024. And it starts with Joe Biden actually performing adequately.

at a State of the Union. And I found that reassuring. And looking back on it, I think you know what? That was fine. But I realize now that my own baseline had moved. And what I had come to be hoping. for from Joe Biden in a public setting was fighting to a draw. And looking back now, I think I underestimated just how. much of a price we were paying for having a bully. pulpit occupied by someone who at their best did OK.

and at their worst, raised even more questions about. whether or not they were up to the job, or even if the questions that came out of a Joe Biden. appearance weren't around age, they were about gaffes, saying the wrong thing, not delivering. a message effectively. That, also, I think, came to a head, in part because I remember when Dean Phillips was running, one of the challenges he had--. JON STEWART: Don't just invent names, Jon. JON LOVETT: Yeah. [laughter]. JON STEWART: Don't just make up fictional characters. JON FAVREAU: Steve? His name is Steve? JON STEWART: Steve.

JON LOVETT: I think it was a candidate or a--. JON STEWART: I remember when generic white man. selling gardening equipment-- JON LOVETT: Right. I was going to say I think it was a budget suit company. I can't really remember. [laughter]. But anyway, there was a man named Dean Phillips. And one of the challenges he had, which any candidate would have, is. that before I think some of the blowback against Joe Biden's. politics and policies in Israel and Gaza, it was a fair argument that he had. played his hand as president as well as any person could.

That's how I felt, certainly in the first two years. He did an extraordinary job. And I think right now we're not talking about that. He had the slimmest of majorities. He got bills through that people. said he couldn't get through. He had a really strong record. It was hard to imagine anybody doing better than how. Joe Biden did on, certainly on domestic policy. with his achievements. JON STEWART: Even though ultimately. a lot of those achievements turned out, like broadband, a lot of the stuff turned out to not-- like, I'd say CHIPS Act, absolutely, some. of the infrastructure stuff, but a lot of it.

wasn't resonating. And people were not feeling, even the successes. JON LOVETT: Which is why you needed. a president who could communicate. to the American people. JON STEWART: But even in the idea--. it felt like the last gasp of the status quo Democratic Party. who would come out and go we just. got the opportunity to negotiate. 10 drugs with the pharmaceutical companies. This is a major victory. I think this is the last gasp of that incrementalist.

kind of--. I think there's going to be a rethinking about the possible. JON FAVREAU: Well, to your point about the larger system. surrounding this, that makes it possible, I think more than anything it is a lot of these politicians. are driven by fear and by caution. And Donald Trump has only added to that. because he represents an existential threat. to everyone, right? And so the way this all went down. is Joe Biden wasn't our first choice in 2020.

And then he wins the primary. And we're, like, OK, we're getting behind Joe Biden. We got to beat Donald Trump. And then he does it. And then he has a good first year. And then I sort of expected that he. would step aside after one term and let other people run. And then when he wasn't, when it didn't seem like he was. going to, the conversation started, like, why isn't he stepping aside? What are we going to do? Why doesn't someone challenge him? And then everyone would say, OK, well, even though most. voters think he's too old to run again, his approval rating among Democratic voters. is quite high.

And they weren't getting that both things could be true. Voters could be, like, yes, I support him, and I like the job he's done as president. But also, I don't think he should run again. And so then it becomes, OK, who's going to challenge him? Who's going to challenge an incumbent president who. has an 80% approval rating among Democrats? And then everyone would say, oh, this is, like, with Carter and Kennedy. JON STEWART: Yeah. JON LOVETT: And it will wound him. It'll wound him. JON STEWART: He would have to have organized and accepted. it and helped it and cultivated it as opposed.

to resisted it, which is what he did. JON FAVREAU: And that speaks to it's also. the fault of the other potential Democratic contenders. who chose not to run against him in a primary. or to say something. Not because they wanted to do a cover up, but because they were too afraid that if they challenged. him, they would lose, and it would hurt. their careers down the road. So I do hold a lot of the potential 2028ers right now who. might want to run for president accountable for some. of this because no one had the courage,

except for Dean Phillips. JON LOVETT: Dean Phillips. JON FAVREAU: Late, very late, to stand up and say, like, no, you know what? I think he's been a good president, too. But he's too old. And we just need a new generation. And I don't have a lot of other problems with Joe Biden, but that's a big enough one that I'm running. And if you want to vote for me, great. And if you don't, that's fine. JON STEWART: So this reminds me to flip it, because we've talked a lot about the Democrats and Biden. The Iraq war, for the Republicans, turned out to be, in some respects, an extinction event.

If you remember correctly, they were all behind it. A lot of Democrats voted for it, too. But that whole global war on terror, and the way that it was begun, and the weapons. of mass destruction, and all those things, without them realizing it, I think, was the last gasp of that status. quo Republicanism and really set the stage for Donald Trump. And I think this event for Democrats. will have a similar effect in that it has sown the seeds--.

and it's an opportunity--. for an interesting reinvention of what. this Democratic Party can be. I actually think there should be excitement, not trepidation, around what this is. But it's going to come from someone outside of it. I think anybody that has any of that stink on them.

is not going to be particularly successful. JON LOVETT: It's interesting. Donald Trump, when he started being. critical of George W. Bush, I think. it represented two things. I think, one, it represented what you're talking about, which is this sort of consensus was very bad for Republicans, it was stupid, and I don't agree with it. But it also was him saying I'm going. to say things that other people are afraid to say. I'm going to be somebody--. there's all these consensus people.

It's all these institutional people. I'm an anti-institutionalist, and I say the unsayable. And I think on the Democratic side, we got a lot of front of the classroom, raise their hand, please the teacher types. We got a lot of-- we do. [laughter]. JON STEWART: Teachers' pets? The Democratic Party is teachers' pets? JON LOVETT: A lot of front of the classroom kids. JON FAVREAU: A lot of hall monitors, too. JON LOVETT: Yeah. And the front of the classroom kids, they are the people. you want running the student council.

You do. JON STEWART: Are they though? JON LOVETT: They take it--. they can be frustrating. They can be annoying. But they show up. They do the work. JON STEWART: They generally do what the teachers want, not what the students want. JON FAVREAU: But, like, Donald Trump, Republicans have kind of captured this sort of back. of the classroom energy. And I think what Jon's talking about, that none of these Democrats were willing to step forward. and run, I think about Barack Obama deciding to challenge. Hillary Clinton, even though she had been racking up.

endorsements, even though she was sort of marching. towards the nomination. And the Iraq war was part of it as well, which I think is interesting. But part of it was he's saying, you know what? I'm looking at the world, and I think there's space. Not only do I think I have an argument to make, I think this argument is going to resonate with people. And even though there are people telling me it's stupid, even though it's a long shot, there's. something inside of me that's telling me this is my time. And the fact that there was no Democrat willing to do.

that other than Dean Phillips, who did it late, in part. because none of the more kind of larger figures. were willing to do it, the fact that none of them. had that thing, that fire that said I can be president, and I can do it right now, is an indictment. And it points to a kind of lack of assuredness. in their own worldview. It points to this kind of, I don't know, consensus establishment mentality. And I don't know that none of them. can be the person to defy that. But it speaks to the fact that so far,

they haven't been able to. Because it's not just that we need to overcome, I think, the stink. [laughter]. JON STEWART: By the way, if that is not. a Democrat's slogan in 2028, something. has gone terribly wrong. Overcome the stink. If I don't have that on a bumper sticker--. JON LOVETT: Compelling. JON STEWART: It's compelling. JON LOVETT: It's that the right person is the kind of person. to say, you know what? We got a bunch of shit wrong. JON STEWART: But see, again, that's pro forma performance.

I think what you're saying is exactly right. But it's the previous thing you said about Obama. He had an argument to make that resonated. Everybody is so concerned about what is the strategy through? How do I do the thing we did at the top, which was, first. of all, I just want to send my hopes. and prayers out to the family. It's that part that is what's throwing. this whole fucking game off. It's the pro forma.

These are the steps you have to take to gain the trust. of people for an argument. I think it's going to come from-- and you're right, it could very much come from somebody in that group. But it's somebody who just has a case to prosecute. It's a litigation that hopefully. can resonate with people. And by the way, I think the opportunity. is going to be great, because the Republicans. right now, boy, if you think the Democrats circled. the wagons to create a reality distortion.

field, what's happening now is we live in fucking Oz. What the Republicans are doing, I mean, for God sakes, how many. times have we heard them go, Donald Trump, the reason. why he can accept trillions of dollars. is because he can't be bought. And you're, like, no, I think you just named--. I think that's the price. JON FAVREAU: Yeah They have transitioned. from like trying to tell lies that maybe people believe.

to now sort of just basking in how bullshit their lies are. They're not even trying anymore. JON STEWART: Well, I remember the early days were this. Look, I don't necessarily like the way he tweets. And I'm not necessarily co-signing on some. of his personal failings. But I do believe in some of his policies. And now they're just, like, nope. He's the most ethical person that I've ever worked with. And you're, like, all right. JON FAVREAU: Well, and now they're doing it themselves. I mean, Marco Rubio was in a hearing this week.

And Senator Van Hollen from Maryland. was grilling him on deportations. and disappearances. And he's, like, well, these students. come, and they're burning down buildings, and they're causing--. And Van Hollen's, like, OK, but what about the one who just--. she just wrote an op ed, and then she was. thrown in jail for a month. And he just went right past it, didn't even attempt. to answer the question. JON STEWART: It's even worse. He'll say things, so I guess you want rapists.

and murderers in the country? And you're, like, wait, what? JON FAVREAU: And you're, like, no, no. I'm asking about the woman who wrote the op ed. And they're, like, and then he just. pretends you didn't say that. And they all do that now. JON LOVETT: It's a little bit, like, Trump. is like the clown from It. He's like Pennywise. [laughter] And he's in the sewer. And all these Republicans, all these Republicans. are, like, crawled down next to the sewer. And they're, like, I don't want to go down there. I don't to go down there. And he's, like, come. We all float down here. [music playing]. JON STEWART: Hey, you like trees, right?

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Listeners to this show get 15% off their first purchase. when using promo code WEEKLY at checkout. Visit fastgrowingtrees.com/weekly. That's fastgrowingtrees.com/weekly. And obviously, the offer is valid for a limited time, and terms and conditions may apply. [music playing]. JON LOVETT: I do think there's a liberation. There's a liberation that they feel. once they let go of that tether to their former selves.

You look at Marco Rubio. And hating Donald Trump, we can do that all day. Going along with Donald Trump is a hell of a lot. easier than the balancing act a lot of these people tried. to strike for a long time. Now, they were trying to strike that because there was. some core of some lingering fucking Jiminy. Cricket kind of trying to tell them to do the right thing. But once you let go of that, oh, wow, what a high. it must be. What a high. Instead of dealing with the nuances of reality,

telling Van Hollen that he's supporting. gangbangers and criminals. JON FAVREAU: Drinking margaritas with them. JON LOVETT: --in CECOT. JON STEWART: You had a margarita, knowing that that's. not what was happening. JON LOVETT: Of course, he knows. He knows. I mean, Jacky Rosen had this moment where she was, like, I want to be a Jewish mother. I'm not mad. I'm disappointed. I know you know better. I know you know better. Now, I don't--. JON STEWART: I know everybody liked that moment. But to me, I was just, like, come on, dude. JON LOVETT: Well, I know. But I don't know if it's valuable. And I think that, like, there's a certain point at which we.

have to accept that, hey, the real person isn't. the conflicted soul behind the scenes. The real person is the person sitting. there making the decisions. But I appreciated that that is what she genuinely feels. because she knew him before. And she knew what he was like as a senator. and knows he doesn't believe these things. And maybe there's not political value to saying those things, but every once in a while, let's. take a moment to acknowledge that these people, a lot. of them, are willfully, knowingly. lying to the American people. You have Dan Bongino and Kash Patel, the head and deputy head of the FB--fucking-I going out crazy.

JON STEWART: Hell of an interview! [laughter]. JON LOVETT: Going out on television. and being, like, actually, (MUMBLING). Epstein did kill himself. And you think, well, it seems like these people. do know what the truth is. They can find it. They can dig around and they can actually. come forward and say, actually, this conspiracy theory. isn't correct. So they have the muscle. JON STEWART: Yeah, it really exposes. And that to me is-- and kind of getting back. to what we're talking about, which. has the game gotten so out of hand that we.

can't gain control of it. I've always-- and I'll refer this to the news networks, the 24-hour news networks. I've always said the most truth you will hear on CNN and MSNBC. and Fox is in the green room. The green room is where the truth is. The green room is where political leaders. and anchors say the real shit. What are you doing? I got to fucking--. I got to go up there and sort of carry it. for Trump because he's done this crazy thing.

with this fucking plane. And then they go on and go, there is no corruption here. This is an unimpeachable--. JON LOVETT: Should we have turned down. the Statue of Liberty, Jon? JON STEWART: Right! Right! And they know it's nonsense. And in the green room, they're saying, how the fuck am I supposed to make the Statue. of Liberty thing work? There's no way. That's where they tell the truth. JON FAVREAU: It's the green room? There's one other moment that they tell the truth. that is instructive, I think. And this happens a lot on Fox.

Say there's some scandal involving a Republican. or Trump, or he goes over the line, he does something really, really bad. In those first couple minutes when they have not had time. to talk to each other or figure out what the talking. points are, that's when you get a criticism. of Donald Trump or the party, like a stray criticism on Fox. JON STEWART: Yeah. JON FAVREAU: And look, and it happens among Democrats, too, with Biden. That happened after the debate. You had some people who were critical, some people immediately did, oh, he's amazing. That was fine. But I do think for Democratic politicians who want to win,

who want to be successful in the future, what I've been. urging them to do, in the Trump era, especially now, especially as things have gotten so. unbelievably bad, when something happens, when Trump sends someone to Libya or Sudan. or CECOT in El Salvador, or defies a court order, like, don't look at the news, don't talk to your advisors, don't look at a poll. Just talk about, for five minutes,

how that makes you feel. Just do-- just go with that. JON STEWART: That's interesting. JON FAVREAU: And then see how that feels. And then go say that publicly. And you know what? Maybe you're going to be off. Maybe other people aren't going to agree with you. Maybe you go too far. Maybe you don't go far enough. But the value will be it's what you truly believe. And I do think that because of the information environment. we're in, and we're getting everyone's takes every five. seconds, everyone's takes become sort of shaped. by everyone else's online and everyone else's in the party,

and it's a real groupthink issue. And I think if you want to be successful, and you want to really-- you just have. to go with what you believe. And that the best way to do that is to just say what's. on your mind as opposed to, like, talking. to everyone around you. JON STEWART: That's such an interesting point to me. And it really resonates. Because when I was hosting the show before the night before, the one day a week old man schedule that I've been handed, which is lovely, we used to do a thing. every year where we would invite--.

it was hard to get political people. on the show at that time. You'd get some, written a book. But mostly it was difficult. They were nervous about it. So we would invite all the press people. from senators' offices and congressional people's offices. to come to the show in the afternoon. And we would do, like, a panel with them. I would talk to them, and they would ask questions. So it was all whoever the press person was. for this senator and the press person for this representative.

And inevitably-- so my boss, I'd. love to have him have a successful appearance. on The Daily Show. I think that would be really helpful for my boss. What's your advice on what would. make a successful appearance? And I'd go oh, well, your boss could come on the show. and tell me what they think. And then what I'll do is, like, I'll. say what I think about what they said, and then we'll talk about that.

And they'd be, like, so the strategy is authenticity. JON FAVREAU: Yeah. JON STEWART: And I'm, like, no, I'm not telling you a strategy. I'm saying just fucking talk like a person. That's it. But it was as though--. it reminded me of, like, when Magic. Johnson first had a talk show. He didn't know the mechanics. So you could watch, in real time, Arsenio's advice to him, like, be enthusiastic about Cher. Oh, Cher! Do you get my point? JON FAVREAU: Yeah. No.

JON LOVETT: Yeah. JON FAVREAU: It comes from a place of, OK, in this environment, if my boss says something, even if they say what they believe, but they're taken out of context. and there's a clip that doesn't-- they. can get in trouble. And they are right, of course, that you could. say what you believe, and it could be unpopular. because people don't like it, or because someone takes it out. of context, or because, you know, there's extenuating. circumstances of why you're not supposed to reveal. negotiation, whatever. There's all kinds of reasons.

But I think you have to trust that the shit you get. from saying what you believe, even if people don't agree. with it, is not as bad as the credibility. you lose by sounding like a bullshit artist all the time. JON LOVETT: I think what ties all this together. is why do the Republicans now feel so comfortable going. out there and brazenly lying? They're counting on the fact that the people that. won this election for them are not. the people that are paying attention. to the news day-to-day.

There are polls out just this week that showed that if you. know some of the details about what's happened with Mahmoud. Khalil or some of these deportations to El Salvador, you don't support the policy. But if you haven't heard about Donald--. haven't heard the specifics, you still support. Donald Trump on immigration. That we see over and over again. And so we have this huge problem, which. is Democrats have lost credibility. with a ton of people we need. The people we need to win back are now voting Republican. And they're really hard for Democrats. to get through the traditional channels. that they've trained themselves on.

And so all these Democrats that have now kind of, over many years, stopped asking themselves what do I think. and instead said what am I supposed to say right. now to get through this five minute interview, are kind of unprepared and no longer comfortable. in a setting where they're going to talk to somebody. for 30 minutes, 40 minutes, an hour, where they have the next sentence, right? They don't even feel comfortable enough. with their own kind of worldview, deeper kind. of ideological motivations to just. shoot the shit about politics.

There are a few people who can, right, like, Bernie Sanders can do it. I think AOC can do it. I think Chris Murphy can. There's a lot of Democrats who can do it. But there are more and more Democrats who can do it. JON STEWART: Generally, they're the ones, though, that believe in shit. JON LOVETT: Yes. So what happens is instead of saying I'm going to go. out and just say what I think. And if I'm the right person for this moment, that's how we'll find out. They think I must be the right person for this moment. What must I say to be the right person for this moment? JON STEWART: Oh, that's so smart.

JON LOVETT: And that works. JON STEWART: Yes, yes. JON LOVETT: That works for a PressIT. That works for a post. That works for a short interview on CNN. That works on the floor. That works when you're in control. But it doesn't work when you need. the next paragraph, when you need to start. tying things together. JON STEWART: And you can smell it. I mean, you can always smell it. JON LOVETT: Yes. And so the kind of people we need. are the kind of people that can kind of just. sort of wax for a long time on what they. actually think and care about. And by the way, that can meander from topics.

they're more comfortable with, like on the economy or health. care, over to more difficult issues. where trans issues, immigration, wherever. JON STEWART: I believe the phrase is weave. I believe the official phrase is the weave. JON FAVREAU: It is the weave. JON STEWART: But that's where he's successful. I think you're right. Trump can talk for eight hours about shit because--. love it or hate it--. I think a lot of times politicians, they think I'm going to go through a process. where I sand down the rough edges. And what they end up with is a cup of sawdust.

Because ultimately, they erode anything about themselves. that would have been compelling or would have made, as you said, about Obama, the case. for why this is his moment. JON FAVREAU: I also think that in the Trump era, Democrats have stopped trusting their instinct on what is right. and what's going to work, because Donald Trump keeps. winning and people still can't believe. that we're 10 years into this and he's president again.

And so they're looking even more. to polls, what works, what media strategies works, where is our Joe Rogan? JON STEWART: That was one of the craziest. JON FAVREAU: Craziest. JON STEWART: Rogan fucking supported Bernie Sanders. They're, like, where's the left's Joe Rogan? And you're, like, he was a Sanders guy. What are you talking about? JON FAVREAU: It's wild. Or they're sending people to El Salvador. to lock him away forever, and they're not.

even having a court hearing, and they're. violating the court order. And it's, like, well, how can we use this. to talk about Medicaid cuts? Because Medicaid cuts are the most unpopular thing, and we know that. And it's, like, yeah, they are. JON STEWART: Oh, wow. Do they really do that? Like, they'll try, and they'll look at polling. about what people respond to? JON FAVREAU: Yep. JON STEWART: That's so interesting. Let me ask you, what do you think about the moralizing? I've always felt like one of the biggest mistakes that. the Democrats made is they so focused on the moral case. against Trump that they forgot the incompetence.

case against Trump, that they forgot the "this doesn't. work" case. And even now, I think the Republicans. are very comfortable having the Democrats fly down. to El Salvador to talk to a guy that. may or may not be an MS-13. But it still comes off as that same, like, this is not who we are. And every time I hear that, I go, what do you mean?

We had slaves. What? Not who we are? JON LOVETT: Yeah. So on the, like, the Democrats willing to go--. I think you're right, that Republicans, they want the debate about immigration. They want that fight. They think that saying that Van Hollen. had margaritas in El Salvador is good politics for them. And maybe on some level, especially as we get closer. to the midterms, if we're talking about immigration. instead of Medicaid, maybe there. is an argument to be made that that's.

not what the politics dictate. So we actually need to really focus on these issues. to get this set of voters. Fine. I think sometimes what we miss is look. at Donald Trump's ability. He can put Kennedy at HHS, right? He can do all of these things that violate orthodoxy. Why? Because he's built a reservoir of trust with his base. He has space to operate because he has such--. JON STEWART: Or whatever he thinks becomes orthodoxy. It becomes orthodoxy. Whatever he says is now the orthodoxy. JON FAVREAU: Totally.

But what gave this fucking doofus--. I mean, like, God damn it. Like, what gave it-- like, we got beaten by the dumbest. motherfuckers on Earth. Like, what gave this sort of, like, kind of gut instinct. operator this support? JON STEWART: Because we viewed them as the dumbest. motherfuckers on Earth. That was the mistake. JON LOVETT: But my point is only that he built credibility. on issues in ways that people would have said was unpopular. The way he talked about immigration. was broadly unpopular and is, right?

Remains, right? But it sent a message to the people he felt needed. to be his loyal defenders and base, that he was. on their side, come what may. To the point where he can put a pro-choice Kennedy. at the Department of Health and Human Services. Imagine Mike Pence as Kamala Harris's Secretary. of Health and Human Services. Inconceivable, right? And so you look at some of these issues, and it's, like, is this the issue that is going to drive. voters in the midterms? No. But if you go to El Salvador, you demonstrate. you care about something.

You demonstrate you're passionate about something. You've built credibility with a subset of your base, so they'll have your back in the big fights to come. So I think that's a big part of why it's important. JON STEWART: But I don't think that's true. And I also don't think-- and, again, that's a strategy. That's not what you think. JON LOVETT: I'm describing what happens. when you are passionate on behalf of this cause. No, I understand. I'm not saying and therefore, this must be the strategy. I'm just talking about what happens. when you demonstrate real and sincere conviction and passion.

You show to people who you are. That gives you trust to maybe defy orthodoxy here. Push further here. Try for something there. JON FAVREAU: I don't even think it's. a question of are we making a moral case. versus an incompetence case. I think that the case that you need to make to Americans who. care first and foremost about their own lives. and their own families, JON STEWART: As anybody does. JON FAVREAU: As anybody does. JON STEWART: Any country. JON FAVREAU: Any country. Like, how does this affect you, how. is what Donald Trump's doing affect you.

and how what Democrats would do affects you. So the case for going to El Salvador. is not, like, this poor guy, we're. going to stand up for him. The case is if he can do that to this guy, he can do this to anyone, whether they're. a citizen or a non-citizen. JON STEWART: But even that feels distant. Even that feels distant. When Donald Trump, in the beginning of it, at Madison Square Garden, says, I'm. going to invoke the Alien Enemies Act, everybody's just, like, I don't even fucking know. Like, who told that guy? Who told him about that? Nobody even knew.

But you had Hispanic communities. voting for him, going, like, yeah, get those people out of here. Even though everybody thinks, it's not going to be us. But here's the argument I've not. heard much of what immigration does for us economically. If we have a large undocumented community, what does it do? Is it a drain on our resources? Do they all go to the emergency room and Medicaid is depleted?

Is it a net loss? Is it a net gain? If you have a case to prosecute that this is an important part, how much does America need in terms of that? The Democrats don't ever make that case. They react to the outrage and moment of the day. JON LOVETT: Yeah. JON FAVREAU: No, I--. JON STEWART: They've got Abrego, and I've got to show that, like-- and now. I'm going to invoke the Holocaust homily. And then there was no MS-13 people left to speak for me.

But nobody makes the fucking case of why our policies are. the way they are, and then they get caught when it turns. out that they are ridiculous. JON LOVETT: Yeah, well, because I think you're right. For so long, because we didn't think immigration was our issue. and it was a good issue for Donald Trump--. JON STEWART: But even that--. JON LOVETT: No But the response was, oh, well, then we're just not going to talk about it. Or we're going to say yeah, we'll. do a very tough border bill, too, instead of laying out our own vision. [laughter].

And if you start with what the truth is, right, which is. there's an influx of migrants and asylum seekers. during the Biden administration, partly because of COVID, partly because there's just. mass migration from the Global South, North, war, conflict, famine, climate change. It's going to be an issue that we're. dealing with for a long time. JON STEWART: And partly because he just didn't do the thing. that, if they wanted to shut it down, could have shut it down. And it's proven by the executive order. where they shut it down. JON FAVREAU: And so what happened. there is really did have in a lot of cities, migrants who had just arrived.

And it was a strain on public resources for local cities, for states, ultimately the federal government as well. And if you're living there, even if you're welcoming. to immigrants, if you walk down the street. and there's a bunch of people who have arrived who don't have. places to live, who aren't working, of course. that's going to cause problems. And to not recognize that that's going to cause problems. is the first problem for the Democrats. But then, you can be able to say that that is an issue, and we need to have some limits on asylum seekers and some--.

oh, just dropped my coffee. JON STEWART: To those of you listening. at home who don't have the video here, Jon Lovett's just took his coffee. and hurled it across the room. JON FAVREAU: Yeah, he was so mad about my point. he threw it at me. JON STEWART: So mad. [laughter]. JON LOVETT: I'm so mad. I was so angry. JON STEWART: Jon Favreau just threw it across the room. at Jon Lovett. JON FAVREAU: Yeah, so you can--. that's, like, the first problem. And then people can believe that we should have some kind. of limits on immigration in this country, that we should have an immigration system that works,

we should have people who follow the laws, that people. who've done everything right to become immigrants, to become citizens in this country, that they should be ahead of people who just came. over the border illegally. You can believe all that and still believe. that you shouldn't throw people in jail. in a foreign country for the rest of their lives. JON STEWART: But if you don't make that first case, it's very difficult. If all you're doing-- the most. brilliant move the Republicans ever did. was send two busloads into New York City. New York City, where this is who we are. We are a sanctuary.

Ellis Island, we are a city of immigrants. Two buses of Venezuelans, and they're, like, ah! JON LOVETT: Well, you know what's interesting about that, by the way? That was totally-- to me, it was. sort of misread at the time. Because what people took that to be was a stunt for. press, right? They took that to be a press stunt. It wasn't. It was a genuine, long term plan to make this a problem. in a bunch of cities. And it was actually an effective thing. It wasn't just one bus. It was bus after bus of people. And people decried it as being wrong.

It's human trafficking. There were all these things. And then the press moved on. And the news moved on. But those buses kept coming. And it became a huge liability in those cities. So it wasn't a PR strategy. It was a genuine policy that had a real impact. on these different cities and really kind of changed some. of the dynamics on the issue. JON STEWART: And by the way, brilliant in the sense. of saying, like, this is what we're dealing with every day. in much smaller places. [music playing].

JON STEWART: Hey, everyone, summer is. here, right around the corner. And you know what that means. It's going to start to get super hot out. And when it's super hot, there is nothing that is. more refreshing than Clouds. Clouds. Clouds are precipitation-filled gas. bubbles that look like cotton or sometimes grayish cotton.

Or sometimes they look like shapes, especially if you're high. But they cover the sky and protect. humans from the dangerous heat and rays of the sun. Clouds, your choice for hot summer days. [music playing]. JON LOVETT: But this goes back to the kind of credibility part. of this, right, because Democrats. saw it as an unwinnable issue, by the way. In 2020, a bunch of Democrats became convinced, based on some very specious evidence, that the way you.

appeal to Hispanics is by having extremely liberal. policies on border security and immigration, which was, I think, kind of vaguely bigoted. and also didn't reflect the reality of the situation. And so in actual, kind of, data, when you look at what people feel, people think there should be--. even today, people believe there should. be a secure border, that if you don't. have control of your borders, that's really dangerous.

JON STEWART: But did we really need data for that? JON LOVETT: No. Well, no. But I'm just saying this is just-- it's common sense. But it's also backed by what we understand. about people, that people want a really secure border. They think if you don't have a secure border, that's really dangerous and unsafe and chaotic. But at the same time, amazingly, even as Democrats ceded a lot of ground, even as Democrats refused to talk about this issue, even as Donald Trump was demagoguing this issue, I think it's a point of hope that if you look at what people. say when they're asked about it, they still want a generous immigration policy. They want a secure border, and they want. a generous immigration policy. But if Democrats were unable for a long time,

for their own internal politics, to be honest about the need for border security, it made them afraid, and it made them lose credibility. on the issue more broadly. Which means that when a Democrat now espouses what. is ultimately a popular position. amongst the American people, they still trust Donald. Trump more on immigration. Which tells you something about the failure of Democrats. to, over time, earn trust with people by being. honest about the actual things they're. seeing with their own eyes. JON STEWART: But even that idea of a generous immigration.

policy, unless you make a case of why that's beneficial, I don't necessarily agree. It's like anything else. Public opinion polls, I think, for that to be driving, it's like when you think of economic data, soft data and hard data. People think that a recession is coming. And the hard data says, well, there's still 150,000. jobs coming every month. We lose ourselves in soft data, I think, too often. Because we are in a social media environment,

the distance between how you feel emotionally and reality. is much larger than I think it's been, maybe, in the history of the country. Because we are inundated with an algorithmic machine. that is intended to drive up the outrage, and it can only be matched by a relentless prosecution. of reality, of what those real benefits are. I'm still shocked that there is not the case being made. for a law and order progressivism in the sense.

of saying the people in fucking Compton have a right. to live the same safe, happy lives as the people in. Beverly Hills. And how that's not at the center. of every Democratic policy is beyond me. Like, what are we doing? JON FAVREAU: It's, again, an example of people being. unwilling to hold and communicate. slightly complicated positions or nuanced positions. JON STEWART: Is that nuance? JON FAVREAU: Well, ever since George Floyd in 2020--.

and there was a whole conversation, I mean, it started in Ferguson, obviously In 2014, but there's a whole conversation about police. brutality and police violence. It is possible that you can be against police brutality. and police violence and still believe. that police are very much necessary to protect. the communities. JON STEWART: Yes. And people who live in those communities, by the way, are very, like, oftentimes like, hey, where are the police. JON FAVREAU: Yes. JON STEWART: They would like the police to be there. JON FAVREAU: Yeah. And the fact that we assumed, or a lot of activists assumed.

in the party, that it was all racial, that it was all, like, obviously the police are bad, all of them are bad, and we should have less police, and that's the whole thing. Instead of being, like, OK, well, we've. got to figure out reforms to get rid of the really bad cops, to protect people, to make sure that cops aren't. discriminating against people, that they're. not committing violence. But also, we want to make sure that cops are around to protect. these communities, especially the communities. that need protecting the most. JON STEWART: Do you remember?

One of my favorite parts of--. I can't remember if it was the--. I think it might have been the last election cycle. But a lot of the commercials were, like, protect. abortion and blah blah. But there was a great, like, very small vein of commercials. that was people going when I said get rid of the police, it was in a moment of--. I was, like, it was like a Democratic Congress. And now they're in a general election, and they're, like, when I said, burn down the police.

department, what I meant by burn. was a metaphorical-- you know. It was just--. JON FAVREAU: Yeah, yeah. JON STEWART: --a great walk back. Do you guys see in your--. you saw a little bit behind the curtain. And so I imagine the conversations. behind the curtain. How confident are you that this paradigm that we've been living. in, this consultant, polling, media, politician,

industrial complex is that someone can. come through and pierce that? JON LOVETT: Here's what I see happening right now, which. is I think I see a lot of politicians experimenting. in different ways, or sort of modeling what they. think they should be doing. And for some of them, it's working really well. And some of them are out there all the time, just trying to give voice to how. they're feeling in this moment, what they think is happening. There are others that I think are playing. a more traditional game. They're hanging back. They're working on their books. They're gaming it out. And to me, when I see Trump, we talk.

about how he's threatening free press, and he's against dissent. He's done more press in the first 150 days. than Joe Biden did in four years, right? He's out there every day, relentless. And what I see is you cannot disappear from. public view and create a plan for how. to fight back against this. You build it in the air. You have to be out there every day.

trying things, figuring things out. JON STEWART: And there's a relentlessness to it. JON LOVETT: Because the right people. to respond to Donald Trump-- this was, by the way, true. If you talk to people about what Donald Trump was like. in real estate, long before he was in politics, he was relentless. And if you were exhaustible, if you weren't relentless, he would win. JON STEWART: And by the way, relentless at the edge. of ethical acceptability. Like, when your lawyer is Roy Cohn, you don't hire that dude because you're, like, I just. want it to be buttoned up. Hey, Roy, I just want to make sure that everything.

that we file is on time. And that's not why you go with that dude. JON LOVETT: And so to me, it's, like, I. am excited by the people that are out there trying things. Because I think the way you fight back against Trump. is proving that you can be out there every day. fighting back against Trump. I am worried about the people that have pulled back. and pop up every once in a long while to deliver a speech. or express a message. The careful ones, the polished ones, the measured ones, where are they? They're nowhere. I see people out every day, I think, OK. These are the people that are fighting. I want to know what--. JON STEWART: That's interesting. JON LOVETT: For me, if someone's.

going to pop up in a year from now. to tell me that they're the warrior to take on the MAGA. Republican Party, I'll have a lot of questions about where. they were this year. I want to see people out there every single day. JON STEWART: I really hope that we are still a year. from now, not in warrior mode. Because I can't watch any more commercials of Josh Gottheimer. with fake boxing gloves on punching Donald Trump in an. AI ring. JON LOVETT: The most deeply embarrassing ad. I have seen in a while. JON FAVREAU: I liked it. JON STEWART: Dude. Every single ad on the Democrats.

is, like, I'm the fighter. I'm the one who'll get in the ring. I've got a knife. I will hit him in the face with a ball peen hammer. It's all the same. JON LOVETT: It's tautological, too. It's, like, I'm a fighter because I fight. And I fight the things because I am a fighter. JON STEWART: Because I fight. It's so fucking ridiculous. JON FAVREAU: To your question, I. am confident that there is a--. as you are-- a huge opportunity for someone. to break out of this. I can hear it in my mind. I can see it, right? I don't see it in any of the people.

that are out there right now. JON STEWART: Do you think the infrastructure will be? Because right now we're talking about individuals. Do you think that the Democratic Party. infrastructure, which the Republicans, I mean, they've got their billionaires that. understand how to go in and give a million. to voters on this shit. They've got their media lined up in lockstep. They've got their social media lined up. Do you think the Democratic infrastructure will be up. to the task and smart enough to be put. in the employ of a real message, not some, like,

fakakta strategy. JON FAVREAU: No. But I think that's actually the opportunity for this--. I think that's the opportunity for this candidate, for these kind of candidates. Because I think the Democratic party infrastructure is so. weak, as the Republican Party infrastructure was when Donald. Trump came along, that if someone comes. along and captures the imagination of not just. Democrats, but, like, the broader electorate, the Democratic infrastructure, it will change, or the person who does this will build a new one. And so I actually think that the fact.

that the infrastructure is so weak and inequipped. is even more of an opportunity for someone. to come along and shake things up. JON STEWART: No. I think that's absolutely right. Lovett, you agreeing with this? JON LOVETT: Yeah. Look, no infrastructure in the world. can make up for a lack of a story that. makes sense to millions of people. and a story that can play anywhere. I remember a friend of mine was doing consulting for a zoo, and the zoo had a-- JON STEWART: For a zoo? JON LOVETT: For a zoo, and the zoo had a terrible image. [laughter]. It had a terrible image.

And they got all these consultants together, paid a lot of money to figure out. a brand strategy for the zoo. And they're all going around the table. You got to do interviews, you got to do this, you got to do this. You got to figure out a new slogan. You got to change the name of the zoo. And it gets to my friend. And my friend is, like, hey, you got. to stop killing the animals. [laughter]. JON STEWART: It's like a scene out of Mad Men. JON LOVETT: Yeah. You got to stop killing the animals. So I think, like, infrastructure, all of this, we're trying to solve a lot of problems. where we feel like we have agency.

Fundamentally, Democrats, they need a message, and they a messenger that resonates. with the country that builds back from the hole. that we're in. All of the other parts of it can follow. But without that, there's no amount. of ad money in the world. There's no billionaire in the world can solve for the fact. that we got an empty chair. JON STEWART: Yeah, that to me, that's it. You just dropped down the knowledge. And I think that's exactly right. And let's hope that that's the way to go. What do you foresee now for the next--. now the Biden conversation will fade,

and we'll be right back into the budget thing. That should pass through, I would imagine, because all the news media ever says. is it's going to be so difficult, you know, the hard liners on the Republican side. And yet, they get through whatever. they want to get through. And Democrats will continue to die at an alarming. rate in the Congress. So it's now, I think, the House, they were, like, it's got a thin margin. And now they're, like, wait. JON LOVETT: We got to find the serial killer taking. out all these Democrats. JON STEWART: Well, I think we know. And his name-- his name is Father Time.

JON FAVREAU: I was going to say, for some reason they're only targeting the 80-plus. JON LOVETT: Yeah, I know. It's sinister. JON STEWART: Sinister. JON FAVREAU: Yeah. No, I think as we get closer to the midterms, I'm hoping that we have a crop of candidates in the midterms. who are younger, different, look as we have--. JON STEWART: I've seen some really. interesting ones, actually, online that have popped up. JON FAVREAU: And I do think, like, we've been. doing this for a while now. But the class of '18, the class of '20, the class of '28, there's a lot of younger members that are out there.

And I hope that continues in 2026, just because the party. needs a new conversation, and we need some new voices. in the party, too. So that's what I'm hoping for as we head to '26. JON STEWART: Jon? JON LOVETT: Yeah. Look, just to go back to where you started, I think this fear is that Donald Trump was. a door that locked behind us. And that we can't communicate, that the truth no longer. matters, that they're going to undermine election security,

that, like, they have all the levers. of power, including the media. And I just don't believe it. Maybe. But I just don't believe we know. And I don't believe it's true yet. And I think now we have to start figuring out. Let's fight as if we can win. JON STEWART: And understand what. an opportunity is before us. JON LOVETT: Yeah. JON STEWART: I mean, that to me is the thing. I'm most optimistic about. Which is, boy, this really looks. like a moment for something wonderful to begin to happen.

JON LOVETT: And if we can take one thing from Donald. Trump is--. JON STEWART: Who's tapping over there? Somebody's tapping. Sorry. We have--. BOTH: Window washers. JON FAVREAU: We got window washers. JON STEWART: Oh, is that true? JON LOVETT: Yeah. JON STEWART: Are you in a skyscraper? JON LOVETT: It's a 5--. for LA. It's five stories. JON FAVREAU: Yeah, we're in the top floor. JON LOVETT: Yeah. JON STEWART: Can I ask a question? Why would the window washer, if I may, and again, I'm not. necessarily versed in the beauty of window washing, but very rarely is it done like this. JON FAVREAU: That's a good question. JON STEWART: It's more of a--. JON LOVETT: That's a really great question.

JON STEWART: --shoop, shoop. JON LOVETT: It should be more of a shoop. It should be more of a--. JON STEWART: I thought I'd hear more of a shooop. JON LOVETT: I can make the point quick. Which is, I think if we can take one thing from Donald. Trump it's look at how much more. was possible than Republicans believed, than Democrats believed. We can imagine-- politics can--. I think sometimes Democrats were a little bit. too afraid of power and a little bit afraid of how. much could change. And I think we should be less afraid of that. And we should look at what Donald Trump was. able to do and say, wow, look at. how much more was possible in politics than they believed.

JON FAVREAU: Yeah. JON STEWART: You just brought-- to me, what. a wonderful place to stop. Because I think you're exactly right. The Democrats were afraid of power, yet, as we saw with Biden, would. do everything to protect it. And if you're going to go that far out of your fucking way. to protect power, you better have used. it to do something positive. They took all the parts of power that are corrupt and held.

on to that, but didn't use the parts of it. and the levers of it that they could to be. more forward and effective. So I think that's a great lesson to come out of there. Gentlemen, The Jons, without H's, Catholic, Jewish. alike, have provided us today with a great deal. to think about. Jon Favreau, Jon Lovett, Crooked Media. They are the host of Pod Save America.

And of course, Jon Favreau has Offline and Jon Lovett. has Love It or Leave It. Clever. Very excited, nicely done, thank you so much, fellas. See you guys next time. JON FAVREAU: Thanks for having us. JON LOVETT: Thanks for having us. [music playing]. JON STEWART: Look at those guys, getting up early. and having the largest coffee you could possibly have. LAUREN WALKER: Jon, Jon, and Jon. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Yeah. JON STEWART: Jon. Jon and Jon. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: I don't think I could drink. a cold brew during a podcast. That's a little intense.

JON STEWART: They were throwing down. Favreau got so excited, he almost. threw his across the room. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Yeah, I noticed his Dunkin'. LAUREN WALKER: Yeah, one was a Dunkin' and one. was a Starbucks boy. JON STEWART: Oh, you guys were looking at brands? BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Yeah. JON STEWART: Here's what I'm hoping isn't happening there. I'm hoping that on their way to work, they're stopping at Dunkin', they're stopping, and they don't come in. And the intern's, like, does anybody want coffee? And they're, like, I'll take Dunkin'. I'll take Starbucks. [laughter]. And then they're, like, it's Los Angeles. Each one of those places is going. to take me 20 fucking minutes. LAUREN WALKER: Weirdly, that ended on a really hopeful.

note, though. JON STEWART: Yeah. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: It felt that way. LAUREN WALKER: In this economy that counts. as-- that counts as hopeful. JON STEWART: I thought it was so interesting. Because they kept going, like, here's. what the Democrat and they still talk. like political strategists. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: I mean, once a strategist, you know? That's where your brain's at. JON STEWART: Yeah, yeah, yeah. LAUREN WALKER: I really liked what Lovett said about the back. of the class kids. We've been talking about how politics has. been organized as of recent. And we're no longer at left, right. You talked about woke, unwoke.

But the front of the class kids and the back of the class kids. is, like, a pretty good. And also, with that realignment, I had doors in my head of, like, nothing's predetermined, and, you know, there is opportunity in these shifts. JON STEWART: I liked, though, when he said, like, we want the front of the class kids. And I'm, like, do we? Is that what we want? LAUREN WALKER: Said by a back of the class kid. JON STEWART: Yeah. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: They're famously annoying, speaking from experience. JON STEWART: Yeah. I don't know if those guys had the best ideas.

They just wanted to have the best resume. But I do think you're right. I think there was some hopefulness on there. And then there were a couple of moments, like, they'd say something I'd go, is it, though. And they'd be, like, yeah, I guess you're right. It's not. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Coffee hadn't hit yet. JON STEWART: Right. The coffee hadn't hit. What have we got from listeners there, anything? BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Yeah. JON STEWART: What are we doing? What are we doing? BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: We got two this week. JON STEWART: All right. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: I've been striking out. What's your best first date idea? JON STEWART: They're asking me? BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Yeah. Not me, I'm not good at dating.

JON STEWART: My best first date, like, I've. been married now for 25 years. Been with my wife for 30 years. So, like, my first dates would be, like, go to an arcade. I don't even know what people do now. Like, I don't know. Do people go to, like, the matrix center, where. they put rave music directly into the back of your head, and you just hover and move around each other? Striking out? Can people strike out in the dating app world?

Doesn't that just mean you just fucking swipe? LAUREN WALKER: Oh, Jon, come on. JON STEWART: No? BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Oh, how sweet. LAUREN WALKER: Yes. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Yeah. JON STEWART: Really? You guys answer that. Because I'm out of the game. I'm the wrong person to talk to. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: I mean, I guess I'm the single one. on this podcast. But, like, yeah, there's definitely. possibility of striking out. I once went on a date where a guy our first date, he took me to a bowling alley, but all of his friends. were there. And I was, like, so what's going on here?

LAUREN WALKER: He took you to his bowling league? JON STEWART: Can I ask a question? BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: And you thought. your experience was old, Jon? JON STEWART: So when you went to the bowling alley. with his friends, like, were you there to, like, be the official scorer at the table? Like, it was basically a bowling night. for him and his boys, and they're, like, I. don't want to keep score. And he's, like, let me get this girl. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: We need a neutral party. Yeah. JON STEWART: What if, and this is just a thing, but, like, if a person said that to you, like, hey, man, here's what I'd like to do. Let's go out. And I'll set an alarm for a half hour. And at the end of the half hour, we'll vote.

LAUREN WALKER: Oh. I like that, terms, agreed upon terms. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: I think that's great. JON STEWART: I like the idea of that, like, setting upon. agreed upon terms of engagement. But the terms of engagement are you have an absolute out. And you're a free agent again. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Nothing says romance like terms, yeah. LAUREN WALKER: Yeah. We assess 25 minutes in if we're both wanting to stay. JON STEWART: That's right. And there's a five minute period where you.

can make your argumentation. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Right. Yeah. JON STEWART: And then you vote on it. LAUREN WALKER: Yeah, your five minutes starts now. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Closing, your closing arguments. JON STEWART: Can I tell you something? I don't know why we're not doing a dating podcast. because I'm fucking on fire. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Season two, baby. JON STEWART: All right. LAUREN WALKER: Democracy! Who needs it? JON STEWART: Yeah. Do it on the dating. What else we got? BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Elon Musk has. said he's going to do a lot less political spending. in the future. Do you believe him?

JON STEWART: No. I do not believe him. I do not in any way believe him. Anybody who understands the value that he--. now, will he do it publicly? That I don't think will be. But it's very easy to--. nobody who has gained that kind of influence and power. through money that is meaningless to them, just. willingly cedes it because it's a bit of a PR. problem for their car company.

Like, he'll find a way because that's--. look, you saw it in there. Republicans were pressuring all of Africa. to make Starlink contracts. The Department of Defense is going to buy, maybe, for the missile defense stuff. Like, nobody's giving that up. So will he give it up to the point. where we all know about it? Perhaps. But come on. Fucking A. LAUREN WALKER: Yeah, he always tells the truth. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Yeah.

I was going to say, I don't know how much his word. means to me at this point. JON STEWART: My favorite thing, though, is how upset he gets. Like, how dare you ask a question? How dare you ask me a question about whether or not. DOGE has saved $2 trillion. You don't know what you're talking about. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: That's a good impression. LAUREN WALKER: Yeah, not bad JON STEWART: Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. Brittany, how are people going to get a hold of us? BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Twitter, we. are Weekly Show pod, Instagra, Threads, TikTok, BlueSky. We are Weekly Show Podcast. And you can like, subscribe, and comment. on our YouTube channel, The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart.

JON STEWART: Boom. And thank you all, everybody, for a fine and dandy Season 1. It has been most enjoyable. But most importantly, thanks to the staff and crew. You guys, from jump, by the way-- like, normally, you start. one of these things and your staff, they take a little while to, like, get up to speed, or to become practiced in it. You guys have been crushing it Day 1, Hour 1, and continue to just keep this thing.

firing on every cylinder. So thank you guys very much. Lead producer, Lauren Walker. Producer, Brittany Mehmedovic. Video editor and engineer Rob Vitola. Audio editor and engineer, Nicole Boyce. Researcher and associate producer, Jillian Speer. And our executive producers, Chris McShane and Katie Gray. Kicking ass, taking names, bringing it back. for Season 1, folks. Thank you guys so much for being a part of it. And we shall talk to you. Not next week, but the week after. Bye bye. [music playing].

The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart. is a Comedy Central podcast that's produced by Paramount. Audio and Busboy Productions. [music continues].