Jon Stewart Dives into MAGA's Contradictory Politics with Zachary Carter & Oren Cass

let's say Trump were to win and come. into office this year oh did you guys. feel that I just got like a real did you. feel that the hair come up did anybody. feel that was that. [Music]. me hey everybody uh welcome once again. to the weekly Show podcast my name is. John Stewart and we have uh today's show. is another followup of our continuing. series uh entitled John Stewart doesn't. know what the [ __ ] he's talking about.

when it comes to economics we we've got. a fabulous panel today uh that is going. to to delve into sort of this idea of. the rights new populism and and how. they're doing that but as we know we're. only I think now we're we're down to. hours to the election I think I saw. somewhere it's 400 and some hours which. uh you know obviously if my uh. calculations are correct are I think. that's three days it's got to be more. than that it's it's I don't the math. thing is obviously a little bit of a.

problem for me but uh the election is. coming up uh people are wildly stressed. out uh there is an awful lot that's. going on I thought of for the podcast. today we could have this discussion. about economics which I always find. fascinating or or and this is for. something at home and you can send in. your comments we'll talk about that at. the end of the show when we're back with. our uh incredible producers Brittany. Lauren and we'll be introducing our. associate producer Jillian uh or for the. next 40 to to 50 minutes I will play a.

Maria and just sway slowly I will just. now it's a podcast obviously you're. probably just listening to this you. won't be able to see me but occasionally. I will just mention and the hands are. moving right and the hands are moving. left is anybody. fainting and we're doing it and it's the. YMCA and it's back to a. Maria what a [ __ ] felini film this.

guy's campaign has turned into and the. idea that this is in any way close is. the most. baffling uh you know there were Howard. Dean was not allowed to run for. president anymore because he screamed a. little bit too loud. once and this guy is raising money with. like a dance. marathon in front of a bunch of people. in 95 degree weather who are having like.

diabetic coma issues and passing out and. then having to get taken out by EMTs. while Christy gnomes stands there. scanning the crowd for a dog to shoot. like this whole thing is falling apart. and becoming. maniacal and then you go online and. they're like Trump had he killed that. rally that was. awesome he stood up the whole time it. didn't fall once like this is Bonkers.

so we are going to reenter this utterly. surreal Avant guard performance art of a. [ __ ] election that we're having on. that one side and and recenter it with. some lovely people we're going to talk. about economics and are very very smart. in doing so so let let me let me get to. them first but before. [Music]. I no let's just get to it let's get to. it.

okay ladies and gentlemen uh the main. event is here we are so excited today. we've got Orin Cass Chief Economist for. uh American Compass uh a think tank on. economic policy and those things and. Zachary Carter author of the price of. Peace money democracy and the life of. John Maynard KES oh KES ladies and. gentlemen this is the economic Throwdown. we've all been waiting for three men. enter and also will leave listen let's.

be fair the really the stakes of this. are quite low uh but we will actually. not even leave really we'll just log out. but uh the point is uh gentlemen it I'm. delighted to to see you guys today thank. you so much for for joining us for we do. it uh what we want to talk about is. there has been a to my mind uh an. incredible shift in the Republican Party. rhetoric about the economy there's sort.

of this idea of the mantle of populism. that is being grasped by not not the. entirety of the Republican party but. certainly uh Orin I think uh your. organization is kind of helping to lead. this charge of a more. populist worker-friendly. Republican party so I guess my question. to you would be H how did this come. about. how receptive have they been on.

it well I think the Republican Party. sort of had to undergo a change I mean. we've been doing the the 1980 Ronald. Reagan playbook for for 40 plus years. now and I I think there were a lot of. good things in the Ronald Reagan. Playbook that were good in 1980 uh you. know Reagan I think did a great job. winning the Cold War but that was more. than 30 years ago and I think what we've. seen in the 40 baby 40 40 well there you. go it.

Reagan was what was he 80 198 was 80. yeah so you know cold war ends 89 91. depending on how you want to look at it. right and then the Republican party just. sort of keeps doing the same thing. anyway and we kind of go find other Wars. to start even if there are no Communists. to fight and we we we find more taxes to. cut even though we maybe don't need. lower tax rates and and we go and do. free trade with China because we've. already done free trade with everybody. else and you know all of those things.

having a strong foreign policy cutting. taxes expanding free trade there are. times when those are great policies but. they got just kind of locked in as this. Orthodoxy that you always do no matter. what and that passed its expiration date. and I think if you look at the problems. in the country over the last 10 20. years that that set of policies just. isn't responsive you don't fix the. deindustrialization of this country with. yet more free trade with China you don't. fix the kind of following out of the.

middle class and stagnating wages with. yet more tax cuts and so I think you. know there are still people in the. Republican Party who are committed to. that Playbook and are are going to go go. down with that ship but particularly. younger conservatives older. conservatives who really you know want. to address today's problems and frankly. be successful politically are going back. and doing the same thing Reagan did. they're saying how do we apply our. principles to the actual problems of. today and that requires different.

thinking and and a different agenda and. so I think that's that's what's. happening yeah no it's it's interesting. and Zach I'm going to ask you because to. my mind I think what Orin is saying a. lot of it anyway aligns with what people. on the left might think is is better the. the only way I would question it maybe. you can answer to this is you know when. we talk about the tax cutting policy or. the free trade policy the only one that. seems to have taken root to a large. extent is that idea of global free trade.

not being you know there's the new. tariff plans and all that but the tax. cutting I mean the last Republican. president I His Name Escapes me I'll. it'll it'll come uh but his policy was. I'm going to do a giant tax cut I'm. gonna cut corporate tax rates I'm. goingon to do all that the only thing. different is was the tariffs to to some. extent with global free trade what's how. do you feel about that well to give. Donald Trump uh his due he also. deregulated large Banks so there was.

there was a bank deregulation piece as. well um but broadly uh you're right John. I mean I have uh both a great deal of. respect for Orin personally and a lot of. admiration for the project he is uh. trying to pull off I think it would be. really good for the Democratic party in. particular uh and the country as a whole. if we had two political parties that. were genuinely competing for the. economic interests of uh of working. people I think you know in general. competition in that way is an e EIC good.

but I also think for whatever reason the. psychology of uh Democratic Party. leaders they kind of don't give. themselves permission to do things until. Republicans say it's okay uh they copy. the Republican party all the time yes. and so I think you know trade is a. really great example you've had labor. unions saying things that Orin says. about trade for a long time um and I I. think the way Orin talks about trade is. basically right um I I'm sure there are. some policy specifics will differ on at.

some point maybe we'll get to that in. this conversation um but you know. tariffs have their time in place um and. I think the tariffs that Donald Trump. put in place in 2018 and 2019 are. largely successful project I think. that's why Joe Biden continued them and. I think that's why Joe Biden uh also. expanded the program in certain respects. by applying tariffs on electric vehicles. and uh clean technology emerging clean. technology which I think is a good a. good policy I don't think tariffs alone. can can constitute a pro-worker policy I.

think uh you have to combine them with a. a much broader agenda but I think for. the most part that's that's genuinely. indicative of progress where I differ. with Orin I think is in how successful. the broader project has been to date I. mean I think the elite Wing successful. in in the way of getting the Republican. party to shift more towards uh a. pro-worker yeah yeah I I think you still. have the elite wing of the party that. cares about tax cuts and nothing else um. I think shareholders and nothing else.

and if you look at most other think. tanks they disagree with Donald Trump on. his trade agenda and they disagree with. Orin um you know the tax Foundation all. of these conservative think tanks that. I've disagreed with for years they're. still saying the same things they were. always saying and I think you know one. of the particular troubles for me from. my political perspective is um looking. at the Senators who agree with Orin on a. lot of these issues um they don't that. would be Holly Vance uh Rubio that kind. of thing charlatans I mean Holly is a.

what hey what. what Holly's a fist pumping. insurrectionist I mean he just is he has. a great he has a great Bill about ending. child labor uh in uh in in in the. products that we uh we buy in the United. States uh but that bill has not gotten. any serious movement and and he you know. he's January 6 guy um you see the. rhetoric from jary 6 guy does have a. tendency to undercut a lot of the policy. initiatives that they might that they.

might throw in there but you're talking. about so here's what's so let's start. with that specifics you said I believe. uh uh the word tariffs which from what I. understand is the most beautiful word in. the English language which uh I did not. realize that's kind of a New Concept but. apparently tariff so let's talk about uh. tariffs uh Biden kept some of the. tariffs that are on there uh Orin the. the plan right now in the Republican. party is to Levy uh those tariffs on on. almost all of our products would that be. correct are that are coming in as as.

Imports to 10% to 20% is is that what's. being proposed yeah that's right I think. the tariffs that we saw last time around. were almost entirely focused on China. and there's kind of a specific problem. with dependence on China as an. adversary um but that's different from. the broader problem of just our trade. deficit our. de-industrialization not making things. in America because you can make them. cheaper in whether it's China or Vietnam. and what is what is the trade deficit.

currently it's about a trillion dollars. a year okay um and so you know look one. funny thing about economists is many of. them look at that and say that's fine if. anything a trade deficit is good it. means other countries are doing work to. make stuff for us and we don't even have. to do any work to make anything for them. right um you know Jason Ferman who's one. of of Obama's chief economic advisers. recently gave a speech it's important to. say this is what across the political. Spectrum economy have been selling for a.

long time the idea is that Imports are. the good thing and exports are just the. unfortunate work you have to do to get. all the great Imports and look I I like. stuff too I'm not saying we should go. you know live in log cabins in the woods. or whatever else sure but we have to. recognize that a healthy economy. flourishing individuals and families a. strong Nation it's not just about. consuming cheap stuff you also need to. have good jobs you need to be able to. make stuff for the rest of the world and.

we' have abandoned that and we still. when you don't make that stuff it's not. like the rest of the world sends you. stuff for free what you send back. instead is assets we send back ownership. of our companies we send back IUS. treasury bonds saying we will pay you. some we will pay you some other day. we're basically just running up the. national credit card to get all this. cheap stuff and so the the idea behind. broader tariffs is to say look it. actually matters whether things get made. here or not and our economy has to.

basically put a finger on the scale to. say all things equal we would rather. have stuff made here which I I I think. is exactly I think the the question is. going to be what's the best way to get. to making stuff here because I think. you're right making stuff here means. that we have jobs and there's a. relevance to what we do and that we're. getting wages the question that I would. have and Zach uh maybe you can help. answer this is when I look at tariffs uh. rather than the United States maybe. government running up the credit card. it's basically a tax on working people.

that you know if let's say you a tariff. is increases you know ,000 Dollar on. whatever product it is you know and. that's money is going to go to the. United States Treasury and it's going to. help us pay down the the deficit and all. that but that money is actually going to. be a tax on the goods for the consumer. is it not so isn't it you know we talk. about redistribution of wealth all the. time isn't a tariff just another sort of. regressive tax on working people who are.

going to be paying that extra money for. that product directly into the treasury. of the United States so isn't that just. isn't that just a tax the answer is sort. of uh ter oh all right well that tariffs. do have costs they do have costs and. you're right they they are a tax um they. are paid by uh at least in the short. term um consumers um how much of the. taxes paid by consumers depends I mean I.

think you often hear people discuss. tariffs as if you have a 10% tariff that. automatically raises prices by 10%. that's just not true it depends on the. industry it depends on all sorts of. other variables that are involved right. as we saw with the 2018 and 2019 uh. Trump tariffs there there were costs to. those but if you looked at the economic. discourse when Trump was calling for. them there was all of this apocalyptic. rhetoric about how we were going to have. a recession and inflation was going to. sore and it it just didn't um you know. there were the prices of some Goods did.

he did though he had to subsidize our. Farm Workers with billions of dollars. like it's not it's not as though there. aren't other factors that go into the. tariffs that the government ends up. paying out I would say it also doesn't. directly just go into our coffers and. help bring down our our deficit that's. exactly right it there there are costs. but they are not necessarily determin of. costs or insurmountable costs and the. question is whether the costs are worth. it as they are for any other tax or any. other policy I mean we don't at least on. the Progressive side of of of the.

economic spectrum we don't say that an. income tax is illegitimate because it's. a tax on labor right uh we say that. there are things that uh are are are. valuable that can come from an income. tax that we want uh the public to. provide so it it really depends on the. the industry the sector um where within. the supply chain that the Tariff is. being applied right um and then what. what you're trying to get out of it I. think in particular tariffs on steel and.

aluminum make a lot of sense because you. do need some basic industrial Parts uh. in order to to make other other things. and so access that be a national. security issue yeah I mean that that's. that's true I mean I think I think some. of the the rhetoric around this with. China specifically is too hawkish and. sounds too aggressive I don't think. there's any reason why the United States. for instance has to be the only player. in a lot of these these industrial. sectors but I think it would be healthy. for the world economy for the United. States and China to both have industrial. sectors and we got to get into war with.

somebody I mean if we're we're going to. run out of people to get in war with so. we might as well we might as well start. moving there I guess my question would. be you also have problems if you if you. tax intermediate Goods I mean you can. make it harder to and more expensive to. produce things in the United States so. it depends on how the the tariffs are. applied but but we're talking about. trying to reinvigorate the manufacturing. base and to create a a broader more. resilient supply chain as we saw in the. pandemic you know all those things so my. question would be why tariffs why not.

either subsidies or investment like. tariffs aren't the only way and rather. than set off some sort of uh global. trade war that might even put uh the use. of the dollar as the world's standard. currency at risk aren't there ways to do. this like we did with uh chips and other. things isn't there a way to do this. that's sort of less. confrontational provocative and still. provides the benefits. Orin well I guess come on Orin just.

admit it well let me say three things. about it one just to go back to the the. point about kind of is this regressive. to you know who pays the tax I think. it's actually it's a great point and a. very fair concern I do think it raises a. a broader issue though which is that the. model we've been pursuing economically. in this country is basically let's have. an economy that generates ever worse and. less equal outcomes and then let's make. up for that with an Ever more. Progressive tax base and ever more sort.

of transfers to quote compensate the. losers that's oh man are you speaking my. I can't even believe this but boy are. you speaking my language if if you. wanted to reverse the idea of supply. side economics and take out corporate. subsidies which are somehow uh the. American way and yet any money that goes. to workers and get Workers you know look. we've become an investment economy since. supply side rather than a labor economy. if you want to change that I'm so with.

you I think that' be and I do want to. change that for for a purpose of the. Tariff discussion my point is just. rather than evaluate the tax code and. say wait a minute how we need this to be. more Progressive the thing about a. tariff is and and refocusing on the. manufacturing economy is what if we. actually had an economy that generated. better. outcomes that that if it happens to be. that a tariff isn't the most progressive. tax but the result of it is actually.

better jobs and higher wages and more. productivity growth for your typical. household that's the goal and and so I. think yeah I think we have to to focus. on it in those terms um the other thing. I just wanted to to throw out there. quickly you know the the dollar as a. reserved currency I think is is actually. you know you're sounding a little bit. like Larry Summers there with your whoa. how dare you sir at long last have you. no decency I would ask you why why why. do you want the dollar to be the reserve. currency the dollar of the reserve. currency is great for Wall Street and.

terrible for typical workers in the. manufacturing sector I meant that more. as a tool for the United States as far. as you know the rules-based order you. know it's it's it's a different. conversation really the the one I want. to have though is you know we talk about. those uh uh externalities about why. shouldn't we just have a better. manufacturing base in America well the. problem with that is capital travels and. labor doesn't you know most of the rules.

that we've put in place Empower. corporations to find the lowest. Watermark as far as labor and goods. right and so to suggest that well if we. just make that a little bit more painful. for them they'll come back but it. doesn't change the the general rules. that capital is able to travel and so. it's always going to try and find that. and by the way even within the United. States we may be upset with Vietnam and. India and Mexico for undercutting.

American workers but South Carolina does. the same thing you know what I mean like. if you're a right to work state you're. undercutting states that have Union so. Zach can you can you speak to that a. little bit about you know isn't this. still not addressing the core issue I. think you have the point about Capital. flight there I think you need both. carrots and sticks part of the problem. is that the rules are just not very good. I mean one way to keep capital from. leaving is to ban capital from leaving I. mean you you can have. laws and regulations that keep.

investment in in the country another way. is to make it more worthwhile for. Capital to stay in the country and that. is to a very great extent what Joe. Biden's economic uh program has been. about I mean the inflation reduction act. um is a bit mistitled because it's it's. basically a domestic industry bill right. um infrastructure the basic idea is that. we're spending a lot of money on green. infrastructure and essentially paying uh. Industries to start factories here and. also protecting them through tariffs.

from from foreign competition to some. extent so there's I mean I think the the. the bill changes but it looks like. there's going to be about $2 trillion. dollar in domestic Green Tech investment. under the inflation reduction act that. it will eventually support about four. million jobs and the jobs so far look. like they're pretty good jobs I mean um. they're high-end manufacturing jobs are. called high-end manufacturing jobs. because they pay better um but also. we're seeing a unionization rates going. up um more workers have organized in the.

last couple years than they have in. decades in comparable numbers but still. quite low compared historically well but. well the overall uh unionization rate is. is low historically but but for the. first time in a long time those numbers. are turning around and turning around. significantly part of that's having a. National Labor Relations Board that. actually does its job I mean under. Democrats and Republicans for decades. they just haven't um Biden's got a very. good nlrb um part of that is also. because when when you um when you make. things in the in in the United States.

there are KnockOn effects with regard to. to development and Innovation um that. economists generally don't like to talk. about for whatever reason um when we. talk about innovation in the United. States it's sort of like that can only. happen with more education that if the. only way to get better ideas and and to. create new things is to have more people. going to school I'm in favor of having. more people going going to school I. think school I think a college degree. should be free for everybody who wants. one. um but a lot of innovation comes from.

just making stuff and learning how to. make stuff and having corporate leaders. and engineers and people like that get. ideas because they see something being. made and then and secondary and and. tertiary products that become useful and. become useful to make here because other. things are being made in the same area. um so I think and that is that is. something that corporations do because. it is profitable once you have the. manufacturing center established uh so I. think one way to keep capital in the. United States is in fact to expand.

manufacturing I don't see how you do. that without some form of trade. protection um but I you know I don't. necessarily think a universal 10% across. the board tariff is is the right tool it. might be a little too blunt I think you. have to look sector by sector industry. by industry um to to look at how you do. that but the way that we're working with. Green Tech and green energy where we. know that's the next that's the next big. thing I think in the United States we. tend to because we're so stuck in the. 90s we tend to think that like computers. and the internet is the technological. Frontier that's the technological.

Frontier from 2000 the tech. technological Frontier is right now. catching rockets that are falling from. space with little pincers that seems to. be we're all going to go uh to Mars but. we're still talking you know one of the. things war and Zach that we're we're. still putting Band-Aids on you know well. maybe 10% tariffs will help get a. manufacturing base and and help the. workers or maybe an infrastructure. program will help uh get the workers but. these are still knocking around I think. what is the core issue which is we don't.

have a labor valued economy we have a. capital valued economy and we can make. those little pinches here and. there but it has to work in concert with. how do we get Workers to have more. agency within this because it's still at. the stick and carrot level as though we. are at the mercy of the type of economy.

that we want to have and so how do we. Empower a more labor uh. friendly one. Oren I think you've sort of put your. finger on the the issue very well and. it's the way that that we think about at. American Compass we describe what we're. trying to do as as rebuilding American. capitalism because the the initial. question is like do you like capitalism. or not right you could say screw. capitalism I've got some better idea or.

frankly I'd be a little skeptical but. what we've lost even capitalism is is a. little too broad because we tend to. think oh free market capitalism but we. haven't had that in this country ever. well and that's the government picks. winners and losers all the time that's. the point I was going to make is that. capitalism if you you know you go all. the way back to Adam Smith for instance. people think the Invisible Hand is like. this magical Force he was describing. that just people pursue profit and. everything works out and and that's. never been the case and that's not what.

people like Adam Smith thought what what. Adam Smith said was actually literally. in the paragraph where where he. describes the Invisible Hand he says. first of all you have to assume that. people are going to prefer investing. domestically to investing in foreign. countries then you have to assume that. the things they're going to do are going. to be the things that employ the most. people and produce the most output and. and if that's the case right if you have. that alignment then their pursuit of. profit will will also Advance the public.

good and and so that's sort of. capitalism working if you have an. alignment where the things that earn the. most money for for businesses are also. things that work out well for workers. and for the country but wouldn't you say. I mean as far as conservative economic. thought is wouldn't you say Milton. fredman is the one who kind of took that. invisible hand and then perverted it to. this idea that because you you said. something very interesting there which. was the public good. we have entirely lost that as part of.

our uh empowering of. corporatism and so how do we pull that. back into if the party that you're. trying to convince is the one that. really their their economic King fredman. is the one who kind of perverted that. into saying corporations really don't. have public good has nothing to do with. it right no I that's exactly the right. question the fascinating thing about. people like fredman and you know fried. is the other great example right is they.

were not conservatives fredman would. have told you he's a liberal Hayek in. fact has a a very famous essay called. why I am not a. conservative oh which that one I haven't. seen yeah that one has doesn't get as. much play it's it's a wonderful essay um. but this is the point is that the the. Reagan Coalition took these guys who you. know today we would call Libertarians. and and took that free market ideology. in the context of fighting the Cold War. and said this is to be what conservative. economics stands for but it's not.

actually very conservative in all sorts. of ways and so the the fight that's. going on within the right right now and. and where I'm quite optimistic is. actually wait a minute let's go relearn. what it would mean to have conservative. economics and so that's where someone. like you know Marco Rubio gave a a. wonderful speech on common good. capitalism the the question of how do. you reorient capitalism toward the. common good it's it's obviously saying. that Sen Advance has talked about a lot.

see this blows my mind because if you. were to look at and again it's sort of. this idea that have the conservatives in. any way talk to their judges or talk to. the the people that excoriate capitalism. for public good because that would be. those what are they ESG funds the the. the things that uh people invest in that. might create public goods so Zach when. you hear the rhetoric of using. capitalism as not just necessarily a. tool for public good but including. public good as part of the Mandate of.

capitalism boy if you bring that up in a. debate most people on the right would. accuse you of. socialism I I love the rhetoric and the. narrative that um that that Orin has I. think successfully injected into this. sector of the Republican party I think. it's a really difficult thing to have. achieved and I think it's really quite. impressive um. you can tell points Cass so I well and.

and I mean the way Orin conceives of the. economy is very similar I think at this. level to the way that I conceive of the. economy you know Adam Smith um you know. he was very explicit saying the economy. has to work for the largest class he's a. class-based thinker of of people in. society and that class is the working. class um that's not the way that Milton. Friedman and fried H conceived of of. free markets operating I mean they. Jennifer Burns just did a very fawning.

uh biography of Milton Friedman where. she called him a conservative the whole. premise of the book is that he's a. conservative and the idea is because. free markets can be used to create. essentially inequality and an elite. dominated economy um fredman is a. conservative and Jennifer Burns likes. that so she says that's good um so I I. think this uh even at the intellectual. level among conservatives this idea is. still being disputed and it's it's very. hard to to to move that that ship around. but this is theory in practice Zach in. practice if you look at the majority of.

the Court decisions that have come down. from the judges that have been appointed. by Trump and and other conservatives it. makes it harder to form unions it makes. it harder to form class action lawsuits. it makes it harder to get industrial. protections for workers at almost every. turn the theory of capitalism working. for workers and the practice of what we. are instituting are utterly at odds and. even among the the the people you know.

the practitioners in the Senate who use. this rhetoric they are often at war with. themselves and the rhetoric is linked up. to. um I I think just frankly racist. demagogy I think if you look at at JD. Vance's performance in the debate um a. couple of weeks ago um you know he tried. to pin the the 50% or so rise in housing. prices uh since the pandemic on. immigration uh economists can disagree. about the economics of of immigration I.

think to some extent the studies there. are are are pretty inconclusive um but. there's been an increase in the total US. population since the pandemic of less. than 1% the idea that that uh that. immigrants are somehow responsible for a. 50% rise in home prices over that period. is just transparently ridiculous um and. and I think it's obviously ridiculous to. to um to people who aren't already. predisposed to to having a great deal of. vital towards uh towards towards.

immigrants and so I I worry um that when. push comes to shove with some of these. characters uh that the thing that. matters for them is not going to. actually be the interests of working. people economically um but an attempt to. pin uh problems on immigrants in the. service of elite interests Elite. economic interests it brings up an. interesting point you know when we talk. about immigration so what you're talking. about is kind of this larger project. it's you're looking at a larger time.

Horizon uh these tariffs can help to. reenter an American manufacturing base. which can reinvigorate uh kind of the. American workingclass base it can raise. wages as we go along we will uh shrink. that trade deficit and all those things. it's it's kind of looking at it on a. Time Horizon there may be some. short-term pain on tariffs right which. may bring costs up or may be a little.

bit of a regressive. tax and then when we talk about. immigration though we don't have that. time Horizon and I think most people. that think about immigration is maybe. there's going to be a little short-term. pain we get a rush of people and we're. not quite sure resources and allocations. and all those things but ultimately it. will be a net positive because not only. are they workers but they're also. consumers they're also going to be Crea. new businesses uh as they get settled I.

think it's it's shown that the second. generation of immigration is a very much. a net positive for the American economy. so why don't we view. immigration with that same time Horizon. why so much vitriol on that side. especially from the right when you're. trying to also show that reinvigorating. our workingclass labor base is a Time. Horizon Project. it's an interesting question I guess. that it seems to me to get the issue a.

little bit backward probably I do that a. lot well let me tell you what I think. about it is that I think if you were to. look at at the immigration issue as a a. static moment in time and say okay. somebody enters the country today and. and here are these follow-on effects. down the road like you said I think. there are a lot of positive things you. can say about it the problem as an. ongoing policy is that what we've been. doing in this country for 40 or 50 years. now is essentially cow Towing to a.

corporate Lobby that every time the. labor market gets tight screams oh we. need more immigrants I mean my favorite. moment from the vice presidential debate. was when when Tim Waltz tried to site. what the US Chamber of Commerce had. written in the Wall Street Journal as as. support for his stance on immigration. and so what what frustrates me is that. all of this rhetoric about focusing on. the interests of workers what. corporations want um goes out the window.

as soon as we actually focus on the. reality of what it takes for a tight. labor market and my favorite example of. this is is the Rosevelt Institute a. progressive Think Tank put out a very. interesting paper on what they called. the quote Whole of government approach. to worker power and it didn't mention. immigration it had one footnote saying. oh immigration is really complicated you. know we're not going to get to that here. we don't want to get into that yeah so I. like Fair Point you know there's only so. much room in the PDF you wouldn't you. wouldn't want to go on too long there. sure um and and so immigration is.

obviously a very complicated issue but. from a from the perspective that we're. talking about it here what it means for. capitalism to work well what it means to. have a a economy focused on serving. workers well telling corporations sorry. no there is no kind of Cavalry of. incoming cheap labor to meet your needs. you actually have to make things work. with the people here I I think has to be. part of that picture and it it endlessly.

perplexes me I mean in political terms I. understand it but as a conceptual matter. I think it's very hard to defend this. idea that uh well we we're just going to. forget everything we care about about. how we think the economy Works what. would be good for workers because heaven. forbid we enforce our immigration laws. but is that because you think it it. depresses the wages of of uh of workers. to have. the immigrant because I think that's the. thing Zach was saying and Zach correct.

me if I'm wrong you were saying that. it's a little muddled as to whether that. happens yes it's it's well it's unclear. this is a 19th century idea it goes back. to particularly John Stewart Mill um and. like a lot of that God you added Mill. there yeah right uh and and like a lot. of 19th century ideas I mean I think a. lot of the intuitions persist and the. evidence is really not not terribly. clear I I mean particularly even Orin. orin's talking about something that's a. little bit more complex about where that. that immigration is a give to Corporate.

America in the same way that cutting. corporate taxes might be you know goes. along with the same plan that we're. capitulating to that I'm not sure where. Trump's deportation plan fits into that. I I want to agree and disagree with Orin. on this one I think it's it is it is a. complex issue um I I don't think it's. impossible that that immigration could. be a uh you know put downward pressure. on on wages for for various reasons. there isn't a whole lot of empirical. evidence to back that up I don't think.

it's totally ridiculous though but I. will say if you look at the last couple. of years for instance we did not see. wages plummet for American workers and. we did not see wages plummet for. American workers at the bottom of the. income ladder since the pandemic real. wages are up that's even accounting for. inflation even accounting for the cost. of living people are taking home more. than they were before the pandemic and. in particular the biggest gains have. been made at the bottom of the income. distribution so it may be the case that.

immigration does put downward pressure. on wages but whatever it is it's I just. don't think it's so much that it can't. be overcome with other policies and if. there are benefits from immigration that. we see for our society like I mean I. would I would give the example of New. York City being the greatest cultural. center of the world has ever known um I. think largely because it is a home to so. many people from so so many parts of the. world um then there there isn't an. obvious reason to me um why why. immigration should be the first thing. you turn to when you're trying to.

improve the livelihoods of of workers um. even in an era of high immigration as. we've seen in the last few years we have. seen workers benefit respectfully when I. when I hear Zach say that all I can. think of is the folks I hear saying well. gosh in the year after Donald Trump's. tax cut you know median household. incomes Rose especially sharply and that. proves how good tax cuts are right I. mean you can do this sort of quite. arbitrary cherry-picked argument as much. as you want on on each side and there's. no share of partisans who do one of the.

things I think is so great about this. conversation we're having at least until. you get to the immigration question. right is we're actually stepping back. and thinking structurally about how does. capitalism work what does it take to. make it work and the reality is that. people's wages will go up under one and. only one condition and that's if. employers have to offer a higher wage to. get the workers that they want right. that is the only that is how raises. happen and and so let's talk about that. because I think that's a great point.

when we talk about the structural thing. so and and immigration and all those. things do play into it and it's a very. complex thing there's no question in my. mind though that the field is tilted to. corporate profit we talk about well the. only way that we can help American. workers is if we get their wages up but. maybe that's not the only way because. when you look at how to Corp how does a. shareholder economy protect money for. management well it is Wages but it's.

also bonuses it's also stock BuyBacks. it's a seat at the table it's making. those people the shareholders so in a. capital uh based economy where clearly. if you look at Wall Street and the stock. market capital is uh uh through the roof. and and has tremendous gains and labor. has not had any of those kinds of gains. so maybe aren't we looking at how to.

Rumer labor in a really narrow way which. is you've got to find a way to unionize. to become your own. lobbyists and force companies to give. you a better hourly or yearly wage when. what we should be looking at are ways to. elevate labor to the table so that they. can partake in not just the labor. economy but the investment econ economy. wouldn't that be another. way to change the the dynamic of our.

capitalist. system Elizabeth Warren has talked about. this uh I think uh quite eloquently um. the idea that you want to have some sort. of participation for labor at the. corporate oversight level um so having. giving labor a seat at the table in in. in on corporate boards also having. corporate boards do something I mean. corporate boards. what right I mean St BuyBacks that's.

something well that's that's basically. what they do theyan I mean good. Management in the United States the. culture of management is basically find. ways to fire people find ways to cut. costs and uh leave Innovation to. somebody else someone else will figure. that out uh and so in corporate boards. just rubber stamp CEO paychecks and. stock buyb cash outs to to shareholders. essentially um so I I think uh having a. serious set having a serious Securities. and Exchange Commission that cares about. corporate oversight um and have and.

having uh some some labor representation. on corporate boards is a good idea um. not just as observers that's what's been. offered right you can sit there just. don't say anything right but I you know. I also think uh part of the problem I I. don't think antitrust can explain all of. the world's problems but um I do think. the problem of bigness has become and. and of concentration has become a pretty. serious problem in in particularly in in. sort of cutting edge sectors of the. economy like the tech sector uh and I.

think when these companies are insulated. from uh from competitive pressures as. you know Google Apple Etc are Amazon uh. Microsoft um it creates an environment. where it's you know it's quite easy to. stop worrying about making new things. and coming up with new and better ideas. I mean if you look at what Google has. been doing with AI for instance the. quality of Google search engine has. declined significantly over the past. here with these nonsense AI responses um.

the type of innovation they're coming up. with just isn't very valuable I mean. Facebook is trying to come up with new. ideas to put computer screens on your. face I mean these are just not great. ideas um that's not the only thing so I. I think you do need some competitive. pressure at at at uh particularly in. Cutting Edge sectors of the economy well. disruption is clearly harder and harder. the larger companies get I mean but that. gets away a little bit or and I want to. get back to that that larger idea of how. do you think about an economy that is.

incentivized to allow workers to benefit. at the same. rate as capital because when you think. about it so many decisions have been. made in America over the last 40 years. as you say that reduces the power of. workers basically the government saying. I wish you guys had better lobbyists. because corporations are killing it we. got citizens united. money is speech we they can throw all.

the money they want into all these. different things they can control. Congress is too dysfunctional in inept. to in any way counter corporate. power workers though hey man you just. got to get better unions oh and by the. way we're going to make that a lot. harder for you and even within the. United States there's going to be right. to work states and you can't do it. so how do you as someone who is. influential with the right. get them to consider those Dynamics tell.

their judges tell their legislators and. and and reconfigure this in a more labor. positive. manner well I think it's happening and. and that's something I'm I wanted to. come back to because it's it's come up a. few times in discussion you know how. much change is really going on on the. right look at the judges look at Donald. Trump Etc I think it's really important. to say that these things happen slowly. that the institutional change that we're. talking about especially in a political.

system isn't like oh hey we like that. idea now we're all going to do that um. you know whether it's if you think about. the Reagan Revolution it started with. Barry Goldwater in 1964 it took 16 years. if if you think about the new Democrats. Democratic Leadership Council you know. Bill Clinton's project started in the. early 80s they takes about a decade to. get to Clinton Gore in. '92 and so I think what you're seeing. now is this shift on the right of Center. that started in the middle of the last.

decade you know sorry judges have. lifetime appointments so there are going. to be an awful lot of Judges that were. appointed but they were a lot of them. were appointed by Trump to be fair I. mean it wasn't that long ago but Trump. himself is a great illustration of this. Trump is not a new right figure Trump is. a sort of fascinating transitional. figure or. disruptor fascinating is probably. fascinating as as a neutral term I don't. think there's any question that Trump is. a fascinating political figure and he.

obviously created a lot of space for a. lot of people to think differently about. things but Trump is you know to your. point he what did what did Trump do he. tried to repeal Obamacare and he did a. big tax cut I think he did some very. good things on trade that we've. discussed but one interesting difference. is when Trump came into office in. 2016 he looks down Pennsylvania Avenue. Capitol Hill who's there it's speaker. Paul Ryan with a big corporate tax cut. and a Obamacare repeal a trump let's say.

Trump were to win and come into office. this year oh did you guys feel that I. just got like a real did you feel that. the hair come up did anybody feel that I. I think it's worth thinking about. John that's all I've been thinking about. Orin if if you look down okay what what. are the where is the energy what are the. ideas on Capitol Hill today it is very. different it is you know obviously I. mean look at the distance from Mike. Pence to J Vance you you can like or. dise to to to to the point that it's.

different I. mean Trump was on Elon musk's podcast or. wherever they were and the first thing. they did was laugh about how musk cut. thousands of workers and what a great. thing that he did and ha haa you. couldn't you know Tesla's the only. company that doesn't out Union ha haa. and and then he talks about how he hates. payt over time like I I don't know where. this shift is Trump is by far the you.

know absolutely but you just did you. just did the same thing again which is. go back to well what does Donald Trump. think and and Donald what he thinks is. the most he is the black hole of the. conservative or republican movement. right now what he thinks is what they. think for God's sake. soaren the Republican party was the most. anti-communist Putin is the enemy and. Trump is the guy who came in there and. were like actually Ukraine's the problem. and Russia's the good guy like he is I.

mean I'm pretty sure's not communist so. that's a little bit definitely not. communist but he's certainly not a. friend to the United States there's a. war between Orin and the Silicon Valley. billionaires there just is within the. party and I want or I want Orin to win. that War I think that would be good for. America if Orin won but it is really not. obvious to me that he's going to win but. let me let me say one more thing about. it I agree is very possible that that. the work we're doing is not ultimately. going to Prevail right but I think the. question is what should it be evaluated. against and when you look out and you. say well Donald Trump in 2024 isn't some.

Pro worker uh but he's taken on that. mantle or I think I'm I'm talking about. the difference between the rhetoric of. I'm a friend of The Working Man and a. guy who the next week goes on a podcast. and talks about how great it was that. they all lost their jobs like to. me that's just cognitive dissonance I. don't know how you square that Circle. and and so other than tariffs what of.

this new pro-worker policy seems Not. Dead on Arrival for these. guys but again you're you're still going. back over and over again I agree that. Donald Trump is the head of the party. today I think the question is what is. post Trump conservatism going to look. like if you look Beyond Donald Trump and. you ask okay who is the generation of. leaders who's going to come after him. one interesting thing about it is it's. not a bunch of mini trumps I mean there. are many trumps out there but they. haven't been especially successful I.

mean I if I look at Congress today. there's not one person in there on the. Republican side that I can see that has. a viable path to in any way criticizing. Donald Trump or coming out in in a. variety course which which goes exactly. for the number of people who were. willing to say how Joe Biden looked. until he actually announced he was. dropping out that's a good point no one. in either party no one in either party. is going to question the leader of their. party that's how Party politics works. and and we we can call it out or ignore.

it as much as we see fit it doesn't tell. you anything about what people are. actually doing and working on in what. direction things are going it just pains. me to keep having to disagree with you. on this because as I've said I want you. to win um but you know young Republicans. there are young Republicans who are. decent people who agree with Orin cast. um there there are there are they ex yes. I true but there are also young. Republicans I mean look what happened to. the Ronda santis campaign I mean he had. to keep firing staffers because they.

were saying Nazi stuff I mean they were. putting fat and these were young. staffers who were putting Nazi imagery. in videos published to the internet I. mean there is intellectual energy for. orin's pro project that's real and it's. true and I think it's a it's a totally. silly mistake to ignore it there's also. a lot of pseudo I I hate to call it. intellectual energy but there is a lot. of energy for this outright racism and. sort of uh. romanticization of 19th century 19th.

century authoritarianism and 20th. Century fascism uh it's just there the. online right is uh is a really ugly. place and it's not clear to me that that. isn't that that isn't the stronger sort. of rising tide or or current within um. the next generation of Republican. politics yeah I mean I think look. obviously I I have my own biases here. but for me when I when I listening to. these conversations I'm always struck by. the sort of strange way and this's.

obviously a problem on both sides it's. very easy to focus on and and Elevate. the kind of Fringe figures I mean I. could go on a long rant about the online. left and how they've conducted. themselves Visa anti-Semitism over the. last year but I don't think any of us. frankly up to an including certain. members of Congress but I don't think. either of us any of us would actually. think in good faith that's a way of. understanding the likely direction of. the democratic party and so to Zach's. point I I think you're absolutely right.

there are huge challenges within the. right of Center on these issues and. something we work at American Compass. very actively on is how do you craft a a. responsible and and ultimately inclusive. conservatism because you're going to. need it if you're going to build a. durable governing majority right and I. think it also listen to be fair I think. uh the fascist right or the racist right. or the you know the anti-semitic left or. the anti-semitic right or the you know. both parties unfortunately share that.

you know as as well confuses the issue I. think of of what we're really discussing. today which is you know Donald Trump. once said I'm the only thing standing uh. you know in between us becoming a. socialist country right and I think the. only thing standing in between us. becoming a socialist country is. Meaningful reform to capitalism because. if capitalism continues along the way of. wealth inequality and an economy that.

doesn't work for working people then. it's upside down and that's a recipe for. disruption I would say the reason we. didn't fall prey to socialism and. communism in the 20s and 30s is because. of the new deal and I believe in the. government's ability to temper some of. those inequalities with positive. programs and I think we still see some. of those programs today so ultimately. that's what it comes down to in my mind.

and so I would just say as a as a final. question and I've so appreciated the. conversation and boy having uh Zach and. Orin you two guys so smart but also so. uh thoughtful in respectful of each. other's positions has been amazing um. what I would say is what is that. meaningful reform to a capitalist system. that's further and further away from. that stability that we talk about and. How likely do you think it is and I'll.

start with Zach and then Orin you can. finish what's the one trick to save. capitalism um the one trick to save us. all H in the 1930s uh 1920s and 1930s. um the economics profession kept. insisting on balanced budgets and free. trade to solve problems that I think. were largely created in retrospect by. balanced budgets and free. trade and uh it took a it took a new a.

new thinker it took uh John manard KES. uh coming along and giving kind of. intellectual permission right to to to. the Roosevelt administration first and. then later to uh the British you know. the British welfare state um to change. the way that governments interacted with. their economies um I think we have to. have a lot of State Le invest m in order. to have the economic growth and.

Innovation that enables the pie to grow. the way that um everybody who loves. capitalism says that capitalism uh Works. um so I think in the short term we have. to keep spending trillions of dollars on. domestic investment um and I think you. have to do that with a very strong. National Labor Relations Board and I. think the results of that will be quite. robust I I think you're already seeing. it under the Biden Administration you.

know people still say they hate the. economy I think that's largely due to. housing prices but we've seen record. growth over the last few years we've. seen Rising wages even accounting for. inflation and we haven't had a labor. market this good in 50 years I mean the. unemployment rate has been at or or. below was at or below 4% for like 15. straight months it's now just slightly. over 4% that's largely because the labor. force keeps expanding I mean this this. this basically Works uh and if we keep.

doing it I think we'll have better. results. waren love that answer from Zach and. because I think it highlights where we. agree and and disagree in a lot of ways. and just to say if you're interested in. the 20s and 30s Zach Zach's biography of. kanes is is amazing do do go waitting. for the movie do go pick it up listeners. I uh but look I I think we agree. obviously a lot on the diagnosis we. agree a lot on these kind of this. structural way of thinking where I think. you'll see conservatives and.

progressives who both really care about. this stuff you know still disagree is. like when Zach says trillions of dollars. in in public investment are going to get. it done I I sort of have a whole list of. reasons that that makes me nervous and. and I'm skeptical we can do it that way. and I think where you see conservatives. starting to think about things like the. global tariff right which as Zach said. like look that's blunt maybe it's too. blunt that's what I like most about it. because. I right like it's a you know funny way I.

would the trade equivalent of raising. interest rates it's it's well look it's. the thing that I could see Congress. actually doing and not completely. screwing up and if you did that you know. when we think about restricting. immigration is there some set of much. more tailored policies that. hypothetically would be better maybe but. I don't think we're likely to get that. right either and so I think the way a. lot of conservatives are thinking about. it is to say look what is the Fairly set. of blunt rules and constraints that we.

need that are going to bring that. pursuit of profit back into alignment. with the common good because ultimately. you know speaking for myself I might not. sound like it sometimes I I love free. markets I would much rather have a Freer. Market in the US even if that means. insulating it at some ways from the rest. of the world and then figure out what. are the things you know the point. earlier that was bringing up about uh. competition in the tech space is another. great example we've said the the way to.

make the most money in this country is. to go monopolize some some tech industry. and that's all venture capitalists want. to go spend on and so you have to have a. rule that says actually know if you try. to do that we're just going to break it. up right and so I think we'll have. different solutions on on this stuff but. thinking in these terms and and for me. the punchline at the end of the day is. productivity um because I I think you a. good question can we have workers own. more you know Capital participate as.

owners there are some some ways to do. some of that something that always runs. into is at the end of the day the. economic reality for your typical. working family is the question of okay. what am I earning in my paycheck and if. we want if we want paychecks to go up. the the way in the long run they go up. is when people become more productive. and one thing capitalism actually does. do pretty well is when people do become. more productive they actually temp. typically do get to benefit from a lot. of the gain of that what's happened in. recent let let me ask you a question.

because that that you know are we've. become far more productive over the last. 50 years I mean productivity is up. incredibly but wages have not increased. no so this is the interesting point per. capita it has gone up a lot but when we. look at what's the only other way to. look at it because per capita is just. the average it's like how me and Bill. you know me and Bill Gates per capita. have $50 billion oh and so what we have. is an economy you know GDP per capita.

has gone up exactly as fast as those. productivity gains right but what's. happened you know construction is a. fascinating example and we don't have to. go back to the immigration debate but. it's related I think right productivity. has been falling in the construction. sector for 50 years productivity has. been falling in manufacturing for the. last decade you're saying it's a mislead. to talk about productivity is misleading. in that. regard yeah just to talk about economy. why this is exactly the point what are. we doing to ensure that the way to. generate profit is by increasing the.

productivity and creating better job. opportunities for your typical American. worker right well if I can sum up. because I know you guys got to go and. all that uh what it seems to me is uh we. all agree that uh we have to figure out. a way to get our invisible hands to. intervene in the economy so that we can. create a free. market through different intervention. think I know we have to go but I would. like to not associate myself with that. summary of the.

conversation yeah I uh agree I'll pass. yeah uh uh thank you guys both so much. uh it's been and I know uh uh it's I've. I've loved it you guys are fantastic or. cast Chief Economist American Compass uh. Zack Carter author of the price of Peace. money democracy and the life of John. mayard KES thank you guys both for being. here. [Music]. man okay all right I know you if you're.

listening at home I know you're fired up. because that was I don't know what 50. minutes of just [ __ ] economic opiate. just injected right into the vein that. just nothing but uh not opiate that's. probably the wrong word to use just. nutrition that's what I uh we're joined. by uh our great produc Britney mic. Lauren Walker and. introducing the young associate producer. and researcher Jillian Spirit Jillian uh. the reason let me let me I'm going to. start with you Jillian the reason I I.

wanted you to be on with this one for. those of you who don't know at home I. don't know anything about any of this. stuff Jillian on the other hand knows. everything about all this stuff and then. researches it and sends me documents. spelled out phonetically that I am able. to not necessarily understand but at. least pronounce uh. Jillian you were the driving force. behind the the foundations of uh. understanding this conversation between.

Zach and. Orin did it in any way clarify things. for you did it meet any expectations did. you want to strangle me at any point. during the conversation say that's. that's not right stop no I thought it. was great I mean I think what's so. striking is the areas in which they. agree and disagree but I think Zach he. sort of repeatedly kept saying that he. wants Orin to win this like battle. within the conservative party and I. think that's because he thinks that Orin.

winning will mean that this will be the. starting point for compromise with the. left and I just don't think that that's. the case when you think see that like. these Republican Senators that are most. in line with orin's ideology are the. same Senators that are so fundamentally. obsessed with you know uh owning the. libs for lack of a better word Gen 6. immigration yeah it's he's got a Cadre. of very Hardline guys that are. supposedly uh the the populist movement.

I'll tell the one thing though that I. thought derailed us a little bit from. the left was the talk about racism and. immigration and those. because while it is obviously a strain. that is infecting a lot of these. different things I do think it it's it's. a bit of a conversation stopper well I. think it's like one thing that always. kind of sticks out to me is that with. especially around the conversation with. immigration it's like purely by. coincidence our Economic Policy aligns.

with the idea that we want to deport 11. million immigrants and that's just. because that's the way the math works. out and we're tired of giving into. corporations i' never heard it framed. that way before like we've got to deport. 11 million eil or Exxon wins like it's. that that was the one where I was like. we can't just raise the minimum. wage uh but that that's that's a great. Point Juliet and I also thought it was. interesting that you know when he talks. about all those things of realigning. this capitalistic economy the only one.

that seems to be under consideration are. tariffs yeah and that to me is just it's. just one thing out you can pick that or. invest in infrastructure in the United. States no that would be too hard right. like it that that's the thing that did. that something that stood out to me was. at the end where he said that pay would. go up once we all started being more. productive I can't that that I got to. say like and I understand the per capita.

thing but the idea that like we're just. not productive enough and that's why and. by the way when AI comes in that's the. whole point I don't know if you you know. there was a quote we ran it on the show. you know ai's this idea that oh it's. going to take over and we'll have time. to paint uh and that's what they're. saying to us but what they're saying to. corporate leaders is AI will give you. the opportunity to increase productivity. without the tax of.

Labor which is mindblowing that's. basically like saying like your workers. are dragging you. down and of course W GDP has gone up and. wages have gone up but wages as a. percentage of GDP has fallen right and. hasn't gone up nearly as much as. investment capital and all that so. that's that's the whole point of it. productivity has been uncoupled from. wages for decades for 50 years years. chill chill in why didn't you jump in. What do we got anything else going on.

there yeah we have some listener. questions for two listener questions I. will start with the first yeah yeah this. person says I live in Virginia not far. from the College of William and Mary. John what was your favorite memory. attending there also that's a great it's. a great question also is college really. as necessary to make it to the middle. class in America as the cost of tuition. would make it seem oh wow that's okay. that doubles let me start with the first. one my favorite memory of William Mario. is there was this day where I drove.

away and as far as uh education being. necessary for a middle class life I. don't I don't think that's true at all. and now as education like the buy into. to the American dream is now like. $125,000 or $150,000 to get yourself a. degree it's so out of whack yeah and. they force kids into this idea it's got. we we have to find a way to again it's. it's all part of what we're talking.

about on there of the society is. completely upside down right now and we. have to find a way to empower. people to get themselves to a. sustainable life without this idea that. the buying is going to put them in debt. for 20 years I mean the whole thing is. [ __ ] crazy can I just say I didn't. graduate college like I I went but then. didn't graduate a spoiler and I seem to. think I'm doing just fine you're you're. doing great but you're also like if I.

may and I'm not I don't say this to. embarrass you but like no you're. exceptionally talented like that you. shouldn't have to be in the same way. that like you shouldn't have to be. LeBron James to get out of Ohio I think. what happens is people are. blamed for not achieving that middle. class. dream as like a function of their own. laziness or their own Vice and I just. think I just think it's systemically we. are in real trouble and the hurdles and. obstacles for people I hear so many.

people you know when they talk about. these economy episodes like so here's. the thing like I have two. jobs and I I don't think I'll be able to. send my kid to school and if I do then. I'll have to pay off his thing and when. I by the time I do that my parents are. going to need money because they're. going to be in a nursing home like. there's that squeeze let me ask you a. question Britney do you feel like not. having a college degree either set you. back back professionally or emotionally. as you were competing in all this.

because obviously left to your letting. your work speak for. itself. like. Crush thank you that's very sweet um. there were moments I think it was like. Society pressure of like even now. admitting that I didn't graduate college. you know being like Oh gosh does that. make me less than but um I think As I. Grew further and further just because. you don't have a college degree doesn't. mean that you're less than anybody else. in this room uh what what uh what else.

do we have another I partially brought. Jillian here because I think we can all. contribute to a pressure campaign to get. her on Jeopardy so Jillian is like. brilliant and you you took what did you. do you took the Jeopardy online test I. did and then I had an audition wait with. with with buzzers like like no so that's. the next round I hate to threaten a. venerable syndicated t. institution you are making a terrible.

mistake by not having Jillian spear be. on your program to light that [ __ ] up. she will she will light that [ __ ] up I'm. going to say this the answer is a show. that is a venerable institution that. challenges uh the mind and the state of. knowledge uh that people have but is. somehow missing out on having Jillian. spear on it for no apparent. reason what is a chicken [ __ ] television.

program you you should cards come at me. come at me jeopardy there you go you got. Jeopardy you want a piece at at. me is that a is that a thing to say gosh. I hope this works hit me up on. uh all our socials oh great egg way we. are weekly show pod on Twitter Instagram. threads and Tik Tok we are weekly Show.

podcast and please like And subscribe. our YouTube channel the weekly show with. John Stewart uh thanks very much as. always uh uh come back and join us again. uh next week we'll have another program. for you lead producer Lauren Walker. producer Britney mic video editor uh and. engineer Sam Reed now for those of you. regular listeners you know that Rob. vollo is our normal engineer but he just. had a baby. baby congratulations to Rob and his. family audio editor and engineer Nicole.

Boyce researcher and sty producer. Jillian Spear and our executive. producers Chris MC Shane and Katie gray. uh thanks again and we'll see you all. next week. [Music]. bye the weekly show with John Stewart is. a Comedy Central Podcast it's produced. by Paramount audio and bus Boy. Productions. [Music].