Jon Stewart & AOC Take On Trump’s Comeback and Rebuilding the Democratic Party | The Weekly Show

ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: It is like--. JON STEWART: That's so crazy! ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: It's so--. JON STEWART: It's-- BOTH: Crazy. [THEME MUSIC]. JON STEWART: Hey, everybody. Welcome! I came out of my seat on that one. I got-- I was so excited to be speaking with you. Welcome to The Weekly Show pod. We are recording this on the Tuesday following. the inauguration of the 47th president of the United States,

also the 45th president of the United States, Mr. Donald Trump. Our guest today will be Congresswoman. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. I'm excited to talk to her because this is-- shit is. changing by the millisecond. Things are-- executive orders are flying. Oligarchs are tweeting. This is-- it's all happening. We've-- everything that was done. in this previous administration has been repealed.

The Gulf of Mexico is now the Gulf of America. Canada is now officially classified as our hat. I don't know what's changing. Everything-- we're not in the Climate Accord. We don't-- America has announced itself. as "we don't give a fuck.". The mountains have different names. I don't even know what I'm looking at on a map. I feel like it's one of those--. when you get one of those maps from, like, the 19--. when England would just go in and just redraw like,

OK, that country doesn't exist anymore. I'm just going to call that, I don't know, Lebanon. Why don't we do that? Here's Syria. And draw a little line. And I don't know--. it's going to take weeks to just parse just. what the rules are and any--. any more about-- gravity is still in effect, I believe. Or did he-- did he executive order that as well? I don't-- I don't quite know. You're apparently now allowed to shit in the water.

Like, I don't know! It's all-- it's all a blur. Everything that we thought we knew about the infrastructure. and what to call--. America is back, baby. We're back. Not just as a country and a family. of nations, but as the nation. We win, you lose, beyotch! Is that-- I don't know if that's-- whatever that. translates to in Latin, that is the new motto of the United.

States of America. And I am--. I'm excited to talk to a person today. that I think provides a modicum of hope, a level of fight. and of ideology that I think, boy, needs to be injected into this moribund party more than ever. So I am just going to jump on in and introduce. our guest for today's podcast.

[MUSIC PLAYING]. All right, so we are going to get to our guest. We're very excited. Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, welcome. You are the congresswoman for New York's 14th District, the Fightin' 14th. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: That's right. Thanks for having me. JON STEWART: 700,000 strong, the Bronx and Queens. And I thank you so much for taking the time. How was your day yesterday?

What-- what did you do? ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: I kept my ass at home, yeah. JON STEWART: Inside. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Inside. JON STEWART: Did you watch the proceedings? Or did you try and avoid everything? ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: I watched--. I watched his speech. And I watched them not be able to turn on the music. for Carrie Underwood. JON STEWART: I felt so bad for her. She's just standing there. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah. JON STEWART: And they're like, we're. going to be the administration of competence. We're going to be-- we're going to make everything.

work again, except the PA. That--. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah, I was like, we are off to a great start here. But, you know, I watched his remarks and leading up to it, and then I was-- and then I was out. I was like, all right, I've seen enough. JON STEWART: And nothing surprising. Was it strange to you-- you know, one thing. that struck me was, sort of, this sense. that the Bidens or the Democrats. wanted to preserve this decorum. You know, it was such a--.

I have to say, it was such a surreal scene. to see someone who had attempted what he had attempted. at the Capitol be handed the reins of power, not just in a peaceful transfer, but one. that seemed to want to honor the tea ceremony. And is there a middle ground between storming. the Capitol and, would you like oolong or throat coat? Like, what-- what are we doing?

ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: I totally agree with it. I-- you know, it-- but this is, like, a thing. in the Democratic Party. This is a thing particularly with. the Democratic establishment. It is this-- like, I actually think it speaks a lot to some. of the class differences and the class. striation in the Democratic Party because, you know, yesterday was also MLK Day. JON STEWART: Boy, did that get lost. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah. Yes, it did. And one of the things that MLK would talk about, he would talk about, you know, this tension.

between people who value order over valuing justice. And-- and I think there is this really. strong attachment to order and business as usual. And I think also, a lot of Democrats. see that as a contrast. Like, they're like, see, we don't--. we're not them.

So we are going to ask you what, you know, kind of tea you. want, as opposed to calling it like it. is, which I think sometimes is seen as a little more gauche. JON STEWART: And that is, in many ways, kind of, how you made your bones. And I think you're right. Like, even when you think about--. and not to get in the weeds, but, you know, so you were on the Oversight Committee, and I thought did really great work there. I mean, you know, good questioning, the kind. of questioning that I think would. get to the gist of an issue or would break it down in terms.

of what the dynamics were. And when you wanted to be the ranking member of the Oversight. Committee, the Democrats decided. to hand it to-- and nothing against Representative. Connolly, but he's 74 years old. And it's almost as if they were saying, Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez is really great at this, but he's 74. So there's nothing we can do. He's a 74-year-old man. He's first in line. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: I mean, there are--. like, there are rules and structures and orders.

in the Democratic Party. JON STEWART: Yeah. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: One that we know very well. is seniority. And they-- you know, it's-- like, it's a seniority. rule type of system. And it is true my run, it was a challenging. of an entire system. It wasn't just about me or about, like, any-- again, I think--. I think Gerry's great. But it wasn't just about two individuals.

JON STEWART: And by the way, that was his campaign slogan. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: [LAUGHS]. JON STEWART: I think Gerry's great. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah. You know, but-- but it was about challenging. a system and a system of-- and a way of making. decisions in the party. And the problem with that is that when you ask Democrats. sometimes to challenge the way that they've been. operating for decades, they--. I mean, it's existential in some ways.

Like, if we don't make decisions like this, how can--. what could we possibly do? What would-- what would result? JON STEWART: That-- that's amazing. And doesn't Trump's rise and the way that he's. operating make farce of that? ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah. JON STEWART: I mean, in some ways, he clowns them, that it doesn't look like a holding to protocol. It looks like submission. It doesn't, in any way, appear to be--. they're maintaining the thing about the party.

that is ineffectual, that doesn't do anything. Yet, that's the thing they seem to cling to the most. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah. And not only that, but the other thing. that makes it dangerous is that it makes. us remarkably predictable. It makes the Democratic Party highly. predictable in the decisions it's. going to make, in the people that we're going to select, in the type of people we advance. and the way that we make decisions. And when we are highly predictable to the opposition,

they will be one, two, four steps ahead. They know what Democrats are going to do. JON STEWART: You're talking on a-- more on a procedural level. Or do you mean also a kind of ideological level? ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: I think both. I think they know what we're going to do politically. They know, you know, how we position ourselves, even within internal squabbles, you know, when there's a progressive or whatever. you may want to say about it. They, kind of, can map us out. And-- and because of that, they're.

able to operate around that. They'll say, oh, yeah, they're going to do that, or they're not going to do that. No-- there was never any question about who or who. wouldn't show up to the inauguration, for example, or how they would be received, I think. JON STEWART: Right. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: And they know that. And so they're able to--. you know, to your point, Trump is. able to run roughshod through these things. because he has a lot of the party's number in terms of how. they're going to operate. And I think that sometimes, making.

certain calculated but unpredictable choices. is a way that we can put ourselves--. give ourselves the upper hand. JON STEWART: And it also, I think, in some ways--. in some ways, it reveals some of the Democrats' posturing. as performative. You know, when you're creating apocalyptic messaging. about a fascist--. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Literally. JON STEWART: --literally, coming over and doing.

these things, and then when he wins, sitting down with watercress sandwiches and cream cheese. and doing the whole nine yards, it makes you wonder, well, did you believe any of the shit you were saying before? ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Exactly. JON STEWART: Or was that something, again, that was. just a part of your messaging? ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah, no, it's really true. And I think something that--. what makes this go-around with Trump so much more dangerous.

than the first time around is exactly what you're saying. It's that he is much more normalized this time around. than he was the first time. The first time, people were really on edge. They were on guard. They were very vigilant about any break. that he would have with these norms. This time, the norms are becoming him. Like, the norms are embracing him. Even these, like, little things that people may not-- like,

everyday working people may not care about, but they are strong cultural signals, Oscar De La Renta, like, dressing all of the women. Like, there's all these cultural symbols, right? JON STEWART: I see. Participating now in this when they wouldn't. have participated in the past. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Exactly, exactly. So, like, all of these people that. were scared before about, like, being associated with. him, from--. from the most common basic level to the most elite level,

they're all--. like, they're all all-in now because this is now. a billionaire feeding frenzy. It is a kiss ass race. JON STEWART: Man. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: It is, how can I. show how much fealty I have to Donald Trump in order. to get my digs? And I think the--. what's really important for people to understand and, like, now and every day of this administration.

is that you're being ripped off. You're being ripped off, dude. Like, everyone is being ripped off. And he goes up there, and he says what he wants to say. But he's-- like, he's just the quintessential. New York con man. JON STEWART: I mean, for God's sakes, they launched meme coins the day-- like, I can remember. in the first administration, you know, somebody would. innovate something, and the Democrats would scream, he violated the Hatch Act! And, like, everybody would go crazy.

And then everybody would have to look up the Hatch Act. And now these guys are literally just. launching meme coins before the inauguration. and piling up billions of dollars in wealth. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yes. JON STEWART: It's kind of a incredible transformation. But again, it feels like--. let me ask you this, because maybe this is a different way. of looking at it. Because in some ways, it reveals, maybe. to the cynical mind, the way that you believe. this shit always has worked in the past,

that the idea of-- and I'll give you an example. The gentleman, Martin, who is running for Democratic National. Committee Chair, right? So he says-- he comes out, and he says, hey, man, we're not going to-- you know, our-- we're going. to take money from the good billionaires, not. the bad billionaires. And if money corrupts-- and this happened in a conversation. I had with Congresswoman Pelosi as well. She said, money corrupts the process. I said, well, you raised $35 million. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, that's different.

We can't disarm. And I said, well, how does money corrupt the Democrats? And she said, well, it doesn't. It corrupts them. Money's bad for them. But for us, it's--. it's good money. And isn't it almost better for us to now have. this arrangement be explicit--. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah. JON STEWART: --and be out in the open. so that we understand this is how the world fucking works, this is how it goes round? ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah. I mean, even-- but the thing is, like, it will still.

be hidden, even if you make it explicit, A. Like these meme coins, people do not really understand, nor should they, frankly, in a lot of ways, crypto. [LAUGHTER]. But if, God forbid, your job requires. you to understand this, one of the things about crypto--. I mean, at the end of the day, a lot of crypto. is just scamming poor people and money. laundering for wealthy people.

JON STEWART: But doesn't that, in some ways, reflect the reality of our system in the first place? It's just a more grotesque, hyperbolic version of a system. that's not working. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: I think, actually, like, when you look at how, for example, Putin has operated in Russia and the way they've been able. to, kind of, take things over in these oligarchies, these autocracies, they--.

they prey on that exact--. on that exact logic, on that exact predicate, which is that everyone is corrupt and it's all corrupt. And so who gives a fuck? Sorry. Who-- JON STEWART: Yes. How dare you! At long last, have you no decency? ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: And you. might as well just get yours. And the problem with that is that we just entirely. give up on a better world. Like, that is the--.

that's the crux of it. It's to get good people to just give up and say, this is just how the world works now, and I might as well just throw up my hands. And the fact of the matter is, like, I know this is hard. Maybe this is something, like, I would say or whatever. But, like, I think it actually is important to understand. that there are good people. And there-- like, and we should be doing good things. And when we decide to make that the norm,

and when we decide to uphold it and value it, and even. regardless of party, yeah, like, don't vote for the people who are doing bad things, whether they're a Democrat or a Republican. When we decide to hold people to a higher standard, then things actually do get better. JON STEWART: But don't you have to know what you're-- what. you're up against? Don't you-- you know, how do you fight an enemy that you. haven't defined explicitly? And I'll give you even an example in a small thing.

because I think this speaks to a larger, deeper issue. that I think I want to get into with you, which. is, you know, we all look at, oh, why did the Democrats fall flat? Why was it? Oh, Joe Biden got out too late, or Kamala Harris. didn't have the time, or she--. you know, whatever that was? But I think at its base level, it was a feeling. that government is not being responsive to the discomfort. of its people, right, which breeds a certain feeling.

that there's this disconnect. And so we have to be able to define why. And I would put this into a unifying theme of governance, which is, for the Democrats, oftentimes they're so analog. They're so tied to Robert's Rules of Order. And they haven't realized like, oh, it's. fucking UFC out there now. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yep. JON STEWART: And we have to switch the way. But then you also have to define. what that's going to mean for how you govern. and what you're going to do.

ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah. JON STEWART: Would that make sense? ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: I mean, I think so. I'm-- well, you're kind of preaching. to the choir here because--. JON STEWART: That's why I had you on. [LAUGHS]. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: --I believe. that we need to be a party of brawlers for the working class. JON STEWART: There you go. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: And we have turned. into a party that caters--. and this is reflected in the electoral results--. we have become a party of people.

who cater to, like, this--. like, almost people who call themselves upper middle class, but they're actually, like, kind of wealthy. JON STEWART: You're talking about me now, aren't you? ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: No, no, you're. not middle class at all. JON STEWART: No, I meant wealthy. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: [LAUGHS]. JON STEWART: That's what I meant. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: But it's. like-- it's like this suburban, like, kind of thing. And we've been chasing this affluent group. and making all of these little concessions.

and hoping that working people don't notice. JON STEWART: How does that manifest? If you could, give us an example. of what those concessions might look like. So how, in a practical way, when you're. chasing a different group. Because in my mind, look, one of the biggest issues. in my mind is, over the last 40 or 50 years, labor has been devalued and capital has been elevated. So investment and finance is king, and labor is, in many ways, devalued.

So in what way have you seen those kinds of, you know, moves made? ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah, I mean, I think the most, kind of, one that comes to mind. is Kyrsten Sinema doing her little curtsy when she voted. down the $15 minimum wage. But it wasn't just her. Like, that was the most public expression of it. But there were a bunch of Democrats. in the Senate behind her that also voted it down. And, I mean, people are struggling so much right now.

$15 an hour is nothing. This was the demand 10 years ago. To be honest, when you index it, it should be higher now. And it is nothing. And what people hear when--. when there's all of these senators. voting against it, it--. with all of these excuses of like, oh, well, How is it going to impact business? first of all, these laws are very thoroughly--.

there's already dozens of compromises. before you even get to the floor. It's not like it turns on the next day. Like, there's phase-in periods, all this stuff. JON STEWART: And how do those compromises occur? Are those placed in because of who. has the ear of the congressional people, the Senate and the House? This is the effect of big money and lobbying, yes? ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Absolutely, absolutely. You know, it's really interesting. So you kind of mentioned this Oversight race. So I didn't-- so I didn't win the race.

And-- but one thing that did happen is that I've moved--. I've been assigned to a very powerful committee, the Energy. and Commerce Committee. JON STEWART: Right. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: And they're. kind of known as one of four money committees in Congress. JON STEWART: They can do the appropriating? Or they're just as a part of it? Because it's not the Appropriations, but it's--. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah. So the four committees are Financial Services. That, kind of, governs Wall Street. We've got Ways and Means, which is taxes. You have Appropriations, which is, like, government. financing all these programs.

And then you have Energy and Commerce. So basically, all of the regulation of energy, of health care, of tech, of all of it, goes through this committee. And I've served in several other committees before. The day that the news came out that I got assigned to Energy. and Commerce, my staff's email boxes. blew up with lobbyists, just tons of lobbyists.

just flooding our emails. JON STEWART: Wow. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: And it. is literally because of this assignment that I got. And--. JON STEWART: Like, hey, man, what's up? Like, what kind of-- was it like, hey, what's. up, Congresswoman? Just checking in. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: It's very like, "hello, fellow kids.". Like, oh, I was at--. I was at the Bernie rally, like, back in the day. Like, I'd love to chat. And the thing is, like, I am afforded-- because I am.

supported by everyday people--. like, the average donation to my campaign. is, like, $17 or something like that--. I don't take a dime of lobbyist money. Because I am afforded that independence, because everyday people support me, I don't have to--. I'm under no pressure or obligation. to take a single one of these meetings, not one. And I don't meet with lobbyists. It's just not really something that I do. And, you know, if my constituents or if.

everyday people are organizing and coming to my door, I'll open it. If I have policy--. you know, like, I will go and find the answers that I. need for certain things. But I don't make these kinds of decisions. But these compromises that you mentioned, how they happen. along the way, it is important for people. to understand how Congress is structured. Like, every bill that gets proposed. gets assigned to a committee. That committee has a chair. That chair is the head honcho. JON STEWART: And especially in the House, it's all or nothing.

I mean, like, when-- even if you have a one-seat majority, you control all the business that. goes through that committee. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: That's right. And people don't really, like, know that. But if you have, you know, two-- like, for example, this majority right now, especially because Trump is. appointing some people, there's only two more Republicans. or so right now in the House than there are Democrats. But if you just have one more or two more, you gain control of all the House committees.

You decide what legislation gets voted on. You-- you do all of it. JON STEWART: Who gets investigated, who's allowed to call witnesses, what those witnesses are. I mean, you control the entire operation. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah. And, like, the minority party just has to basically. sit there for two years. And maybe you can rename a post office, if a Republican. is going to throw you a bone. But, like--. JON STEWART: All right. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: --you know--. JON STEWART: Tasty. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: --it's pretty limited. That's how those compromises happen because you. need to win that vote.

Like, I think about back when Biden was trying to Build Back. Better, and we had these-- like, we. had this massive prescription drug pricing provision in there. that was going to make so many prescriptions more affordable. for people. And there was, like, one Democrat-- and that bill. went through Energy and Commerce. There was, like, one Democrat, maybe two, very beholden to industry. It lost by one vote-- or it lost by one or two votes. in that committee. And so that's how, like, all of these things.

get slowly chipped away because of that process. And that's why one of the things that we say is like, yes, voting for Democratic majorities is important, but it's really about the kind of Democrat. that you're sending. And one of the things I've learned a lot in the House. is, like, you know, there's so many. frustrations, understandably. But also, you know, the popularity of Congress. is super low.

But a lot of people actually like their individual member. of Congress. And that's part of the story that we. have here, too, because a lot of people are just very--. you know, where they're very beholden to a set. of incentives that are not always just. the people who voted for them. JON STEWART: Right. And the people who voted for them rarely get the access. You know, I thought it was a stark moment. at the inauguration yesterday, Amy Klobuchar was up. And, you know, she gave that-- that first speech.

And it began with this, sort of, ode to the working man. Oh, the working man, the construction workers who. built this city, the railroad engineers who-- you know, and it was this large ode to the working man. Not one of them in the room. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Literally. JON STEWART: Not even allowed in. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: And you've. got, like, Mark Zuckerberg and Jeff Bezos. and TikTok's CEO right behind. Yeah, no, it's like, what are we-- what are we doing here?

What are we doing here? JON STEWART: But it makes it seem like a performance. This is why I think people lose that faith. And I think that ultimately, this idea. that, well, you know, people just. need to have better unions, and they--. like, why is it incumbent upon working people? You know, maybe this is a shift, and maybe this is an interesting way to, kind of, talk about, where do the Democrats. go ideologically, right? Because this fire hose of oligarchs.

isn't going to be ending. And it seems like unionization, while a really powerful tool, is a slow-moving one, and certainly. one that's been eroded. Is maybe the new economic theory a way. to tap into that fire hose? That money is built by labor, but labor does not participate. like a shareholder. Is there a way, and this is obviously beyond my pay grade,

but to start shifting the conversation beyond like, hey, man, just give us a minimum wage raise, and start--. think about the ways that--. that these CEOs and these oligarchs. are remunerated, right? It's bonuses. It's stock buybacks. It's-- so how do we get labor to not just live on the crumbs. that they are afforded, but to participate in that fire hose,

that $50 trillion dollar growth in wealth. over these last four years? ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: I mean, there are tons of structural things that we can do. And there are lots and lots of ways. to get a bite at that apple. I think, kind of, the knot that we. have to untie is, how do we build the power to actually. implement those things? Like, when it comes to labor getting that share,

that's not a hard problem to solve. There are everything from Elizabeth Warren and a lot. of other folks saying labor should have board seats. in corporations to even more--. like, more lefty--. I mean, it's all lefty, but even, like, other things--. JON STEWART: But why is it-- like, even when it's called "lefty," like, in the rest of the world, it's, like, center right. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: It's normal. JON STEWART: Like, it's normal. It's the-- you know, when we talk about, oh, well, how about everybody, like, can go to a doctor?

And you're like, what are you, a communist? And you're like, they fucking-- that's the-- the whole world. does that. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Well, that's--. JON STEWART: Except us. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: --our country. is remarkably propagandized. Like, we are remarkably propagandized. And that's what I'm talking about. A lot of working class people voted for Donald Trump. JON STEWART: Sure. I mean, he gained a tremendous amount in that area. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: He gained a tremendous amount. in that area. They voted for him, despite the fact that he has a Supreme.

Court that guts labor rights, that they are. overwhelmingly opposed to raising a minimum wage, that they are really--. you know, that they are gutting the--. the civil rights around working people and organizing, let alone women and voting rights. and for Black folks and immigrants. Like, put all of that aside. Just on a working class level, we. have elected the foxes for the henhouse-- to run the henhouse. And so that is, like, a--.

something that we're going to have to confront. Because what Zuckerberg and Bezos and all these people. sitting behind them, they don't just represent billionaires. They represent all of the communication platforms. that people use in the United States. So the TikTok CEO is saying, we work for Trump. Meta, Instagram, and Facebook CEO is saying, we work for Trump. Of course, you've got Elon with his fucking, like, jumping around on a stage.

All of them are saying--. JON STEWART: He just gave away a million dollars. to individuals in Pennsylvania just--. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah, which is, like, not legal. But--. JON STEWART: Right. But isn't that the point, though? They would rather ask for forgiveness than permission. And isn't a lot of this based on--. you know, when we say it's the foxes. now guarding the henhouse. But isn't it the people in the henhouse. going, where are my eggs? ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah. JON STEWART: You promised me eggs, and you--. you guys haven't delivered.

Now, you did something really interesting, I thought, after the election. And this is, I think, why I think the right gives you. respect, and also, I think, is a little trepidatious. about you in that you kind of understand. these new media platforms. And you went on one of them-- and it was either TikTok. or Instagram or one-- after the election. because you outperformed the Democrats in your district. And there were people that voted for you. and voted for Trump, and you wanted to know why.

And in doing that, you know, what came back to you? Was it anything revelatory or illuminating about the process. by which their frustration with people that are speaking. the language of their struggle, but not delivering. on their struggle, led them to, well, you know what, fuck it, let's just cut through all the red tape. and go with a more executive version of all of this? ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah, I mean, I think. there's a couple of things.

One is that, especially for people who voted for Trump. and voted for me, they see two people that are fundamentally. anti-establishment, two people that do not respect a rule. if the rule does not lead to an outcome, like a positive outcome. And one of the things that I really, kind of, sit with. is the level to which--.

also, people believe in a--. I think a shift that we've seen is. that people want to hear directly from their--. from a politician. And importantly-- and this is also, you know, dicey territory, I think--. they will believe what the politician. says from themselves, right? JON STEWART: If they hear it from you. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: If they hear it. from me, and the same thing, like, if they hear it from Trump. Like, Trump went around--. I don't think people understandably-- like, if you don't like Trump, you probably didn't listen.

to him on the campaign trail. But this was a very different Trump that. was on the campaign trail. And even if you roll back his election night speech. and his victory speech, when he talks. about immigration, for example, my district is, like, 60% immigrant families. And so when you hear him, he was very clear on the campaign. trail saying, we're only going to go after the criminals,

and we're not going to go after people. who came here the right way. And he is lying through his teeth. But that is what he is saying. And so people believe it. It's the same thing with the Project 2025 stuff, when. he was like, that's not me. JON STEWART: Right. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: We're not going to do that. People will say, he said it's not him. He said he's only going to go after the, quote unquote, "criminals," which, like, they believe. everyone who came here who is undocumented is a criminal.

Like, and not only that, but on paper, they say they want to deport 20 million people. There's only 14 million undocumented people. in the United States. So they're going to have to proactively strip status from 6. million people who are here legally, in a legal fashion, in order to meet that number. And so, like, this is actually where I think the collapse. of journalism, which, again, Bezos runs The Post, you've got--.

you've got-- they have the newspapers, too. JON STEWART: The guy from the LA Times. was like, hey, man, what do you guys-- what do you guys. want us to put in the paper? ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah. LA Times is a billionaire publication. Washington Post is a billionaire publication. New York Times is, like, taking L's left and right. Like, you have Elon doing a Nazi salute yesterday, and they're like, hmm, he--. he did this curious--. that was, you know, controversial, you. know, flagellation. Like, what are you people doing? What utility do you have right now?

And, you know, it's all of this stuff that. is-- that is meshing together. And so-- but the point is, like, this. is not all doom and gloom. I think that it highlights ways that we can fight back. And one of the things that we need to do. is to talk to people directly. Also, guess what? There need to be Democrats who walk the walk. and talk the talk. There is an insane amount of hypocrisy. And the hypocrisy is what gets exploited to use the cynicism.

And wherever there's a hypocritical window--. for example, I think one of the most--. biggest examples of this is insider trading in Congress. Like-- JON STEWART: Dude! I don't know-- like, I don't know if I-- like, do I give snaps? Do I-- I don't know what the kids do anymore. But, like, dude, yes! ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: It is like--. JON STEWART: That's so crazy. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: It's so--. JON STEWART: It's--. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: --crazy. JON STEWART: --crazy.

ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yep, crazy. I mean, like, that's-- and this is the thing. It's like, people think that everyday people are stupid. I'm like, do-- do you all really think that people. don't see this shit? Like--. JON STEWART: They sit on a committee. They get information about a drug or a contract or a thing. They immediately make a call. The stockbroker changes things, and their portfolio swells. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Explodes. It explodes. JON STEWART: What are we doing? ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: And you're doing. this on public trust--.

JON STEWART: Right. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: --on, like, taxpayer-financed public, you know, facilities. Like, of course--. JON STEWART: You're regulating the market. that you're trading on. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Exactly. And--. JON STEWART: You run the casino. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: And then we're supposed. to act like money doesn't--. only corrupts Republicans? Give me a fucking break. JON STEWART: We're lucky we're not in the same room. because I think we might have high-fived. I really-- I really think we may have disturbingly. high-fived in that moment.

ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: And I think sometimes what. my colleagues and, like, you know, other people in the party. don't understand is that the insider trading that. happens in Congress, it explodes the cynicism. that fuels the right. It doesn't benefit us. It benefits Republicans because they make no bones. about the fact that they are here-- about what. class they are here to serve. In fact, Republicans are far more honest in this respect.

sometimes, which is that they're here to serve. the billionaire class. And they make decisions very publicly to serve. that billionaire class. JON STEWART: Oh, but they're performing a populist dance. in a lot of ways. But doesn't it, though-- you know, and this is the thing. where it kind of gets tricky because what. the right's diagnosis is, is, in many ways, correct. What Trump is saying is, the system is rigged. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Mm-hm. JON STEWART: Well, I think that's what--.

what we're saying, which is, yeah, it's rigged. Now, I don't believe his remedy is correct. I don't believe he's honest about where he's un-rigging it. I think he's not draining the swamp. He's co-opting it. He wants the deed to the swamp so that he. can continue to funnel. I mean, that, you know, meme coin being just. the tip of the iceberg there. But isn't that what is driving them is that sense that--. and they are, I think, not wrong--. the system is rigged? ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Mm-hm.

Oh, yeah, I mean, it's completely rigged. And the frustrations at that are why working people want. to elect people who seek to not, you know, go along to get along. JON STEWART: But the question is, they're viewing it like, oh, it's the undocumented migrants that are rigging. the system and not the six billionaire. oligarchs that are sitting in the front row. at the inauguration. To me, that's the disconnect. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: That's exactly right. And, like, the thing is that when we talk about solidarity,

the reason why solidarity is, when we build that, is such an antidote to kleptocracy and corruption, I think something that's really important for people. to understand and something that I also think the left can. do a better job at is also explaining why this solidarity. is important, not just on moral grounds, but this is our strategy for defeating. the billionaire class. Because they are going to say, your wages are.

low because of an immigrant. And by the way, oh, you're going to drive down--. wait until there's no immigrants to do your roofing, to do agricultural work in the United States, and you're going to have some, like, I don't even know, some UCLA alum that's doing--. that's, like, doing your vegetables. JON STEWART: Well, there are people here in this country who. will do work for money that Americans won't do work for, who are exploited by, you know, the system.

ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: They are exploited. They are absolutely exploited. But the thing is that when we allow ourselves to constantly. be distracted by these culture wars around trans people, around-- like, it's a new thing every day. But I think the answer doesn't--. isn't that we just let those people be attacked. It's that we say, what are you doing, man?

Like, I think we need to make standing up for these folks. just, like, such an afterthought. that it's not even a debate. Like, we need to understand and see the bait for what it is, but we don't take the bait by letting those rights just. erode and go by the wayside. JON STEWART: But how do you battle certain-- like, the common sense thing? I'll give you an example. Like, when they say, oh, there's. an undocumented immigrant who has committed a crime. And common sense would tell you, yeah, that person has lost their ability to be here.

and should be sent back. And yet, you would find there are some Democrats. who would disagree with that. Or-- you know, isn't there another form of progressivism. that is more muscular, that has a certain amount. of common sense law and order aspect to it. that can be fashioned as a way forward, that doesn't get saddled with some of these seemingly. nonsensical positions? ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah. Well, let's take-- let's take the Laken Riley Act, for example, which just passed in the Senate,

which is that it--. this kind of encapsulates a lot of what you just said. Laken Riley, on its face, Republicans brought this, and they say, well, you know, if you are-- by the way, Laken Riley is a victim of a horrific crime. JON STEWART: Horrible. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Horrible murder by some--. by, I believe, an asylum seeker or an undocumented person. JON STEWART: Right, but apparently. who had, like, a criminal record, who had committed crimes. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Now, first and foremost, her family.

explicitly asked that her name not be politicized. or used or wielded in this way. And every time I see this, like, it's just--. it's just so disgusting to me that they. just trampled on this family's wishes and decided to do this. But anyways, so you have this act that's brought forth. And Republicans say, OK, well, you know, this person, if you have a criminal record, if you've, you know, sexually assaulted somebody,

you know, you should be deported. And so that's the guise of this bill, right? And they said, so that should be the law. Except that's not what's in this law because, A, that is existing US law. It is existing US law. JON STEWART: Why isn't it done then? ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: And-- well, I mean, I think there. are individual cases where--. I'm not sure. But this is what the right does. They exploit these, like, very narrow individual cases. But the existing law in the United States. is that if you are undocumented and you commit a crime,

you are put on priority number one for deportation. That is standing US law. JON STEWART: And it's not like we. don't deport a lot of people. Even in Democratic administrations, we deport a ton. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Now, here's. what Laken Riley does, actually, is that they use that guise to then dramatically erode. constitutional rights in the United. States tucked into that bill. JON STEWART: No due process, then, for someone who is--. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: That's right. So now, in this bill, all you need to do.

is be accused of a crime. And you don't have to be fully undocumented. It works against Dreamers, too. So you could be here. You could have lawful, you know--. JON STEWART: So they take a narrow common sense issue, and then what they do is they expand the margins out on it. to things that would not be common sense. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: This is Patriot Act all over again. This is using this guise of national security to arose--.

to erode not just the civil rights of this population, but your civil rights, too. And, like, it makes us all--. it's kind of like when they did these 100-mile. border security zones. They're doing surveillance on everybody, on the vast majority of the United States, because most people, believe it or not, live within 100 miles of some kind of border, the southern border, the northern border, or both, either coast. JON STEWART: Oh, I got Delaware breathing. down my neck over here. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah. JON STEWART: I don't know--.

I don't know what they're sending up my way. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: And so, like, this is the thing. that we need to be aware of. But it's also something that-- you haven't heard. this because Democrats are very scared. on these kinds of issues. Democrats are vulnerable on issues of immigration. And so the response, instead of being more full-throated. and telling people how they're being conned, is to just, like, be quiet about it and to go along with it. JON STEWART: So let's take your energy. Let's take the passion that you have for these issues, and let's think about-- because right now, the Democrats are.

almost fully defined by their positions on Trump, as opposed to, you know, people are thirsty for a leadership. And the Democrats, I think, have. had a really difficult time responding to that thirst, responding to that action. So what is the process, then, of redefining. what this party is, what it represents moving forward? And are there leaders there?

It is sclerotic. I mean, it is a party in real confusion. And I don't know--. I can't put my finger on-- it reminds. me of the Republicans in 2012, where. there was just-- when Trump came. into that first 2016 primary. I mean, he just--. like, just flicking his finger. Not Jeb Bush? Yeah, nice. Boom, done. Like, and I think the Democrats are vulnerable to that.

So how-- what is the process of redefining and recapturing. what this party is? ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Well, I think we need a real agenda. If you've noticed, the Democratic Party. has not really had a platform with any sort of new--. JON STEWART: I have-- I have noticed. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah. There's no-- there's no platform. I mean, there's technically a platform that gets voted on. I-- this is the crux of it. If you ask a working class American or just.

any normal American, What is a Democrat? What do they stand for? they will not really be able to give you a clear answer. And so our party needs a clear and strong agenda. I think one of the problems is that the internal incentives. within the Democratic Party are quite contrary to. a clear, full-throated agenda. And that's why I think you notice, like, Biden, on his way. out, it was only on his way out that he.

was like, this country is controlled by oligarchs, bye! Like, we could have used that energy a couple years ago. And--. JON STEWART: I mean, what he did on the way out, I really thought it was incredibly disappointing. On the way out, he's like, we're controlled by oligarchs, women are people, and I'm going to make sure that my family has. a life raft. And I just thought, boy, what a--. and I have fondness for him. And he was certainly incredibly important to a bill that was.

very important to me that--. that went through. But I just thought, again, you just made this whole thing look. like a show, like a performance, and that you've been not clear with us over four years. And on your way out, you're just. going to tell the truth, which is, our legal system doesn't. serve anybody, and I'm just going to make. sure my family is protected. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah. And I think it's one of these things where people--. I do think that people want rule-breakers in this moment. JON STEWART: Purposeful rule-- I think--.

ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Purposeful rule--. JON STEWART: I don't think we're looking for nihilists. I think we're looking for a purposeful recapturing. of the thrust. Does it start, Congresswoman, with what you did, which. is kind of a customer service? I think what the Democrats have lost is. the reality of people's lives. When you think about that cradle-to-grave journey. and where the bottleneck pressures are, that weird working class, middle class squeeze of, I've worked really hard, I've saved some money,

but now I've got to blow most of it on my kids' college. while my parents need health care and other things, and those costs are soaring, and that's. going to put me under by the time I get up to that age, when. I'm 60 years old, isn't that journey. the absolute priority of any government. that's going to listen to the discomfort. of the way its people live? ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Of course, of course. This is where, I think, when you talk about responsiveness,

it's that a lot of people propose these things that, kind of, nibble around the edges, but don't actually structurally address the problem. And so they'll say, OK, we're going to do a little bit. of Medicare reform here. That doesn't fix the problem. That doesn't fix the fact that you aren't paid a living wage. from the jump, from the time you're 15 years old, getting. your first job at McDonald's or Baskin-Robbins. or wherever it is. Like, you're-- we don't have money.

We need money. And so that doesn't solve that problem. It doesn't solve the fact that the price of college. is just skyrocketing year over year. And it's increasingly becoming something that's. only accessible for more and more elite people. as time goes on. It doesn't fix the fact that then in order to--. that degree, yes, it still does give you a ticket. to a more privileged class.

I know there's a lot of discussion about, is college worth-- and also the trades, too. The trades are incredibly important as well. But, like, it's-- these are still, like, kind of tickets to a more-- so people are getting left behind. at every single stage of life. And what the Democratic response has been is like, oh, let's expand Pell grants a little bit or--. and, no, we need tuition--. JON STEWART: Or even, you know, the Obamacare, which is, in many ways, just a giant benefit to insurance.

companies, which the government is just saying, we'll give you a little bit of access to this shitty system. that you haven't been satisfied with, and we'll just make sure that, to get an insurance company. to take you on if you're considered a poor risk, we'll just pay them--. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: At the end of the day, like--. and the stuff that's crazy to me, it's like, the answers are stuff--. like, we're just asking for things that our parents. and our grandparents had. Like, tuition-free public colleges and. universities, not--. not new.

JON STEWART: That's why my parents went to City College. in New York. It was free. You know, this was the 1940s. You know, it's free. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: That's right. We should be lowering the age of Medicare. I want the age of Medicare to be lowered to zero. But even you bring it to 50, and you. will be able to make tons and tons of people far more secure. in their lives, which, by the way, helps their kids because you're working your ass off. to get your parents' health care. because they're not 65 yet. JON STEWART: Now, to make that argument, is Democrat-- is job one, then, to be.

honest about the deliverables that a government can offer. or about how we need almost, you know, when they talk about moonshots, we. need a bureaucratic moonshot? Because, in truth, the way that the government operates right. now is counterintuitive and counterfactual. to all best practices. And there is such opportunity here, Congresswoman. I feel it in your voice. I feel the frustration that you feel being down there. I've experienced it myself.

I have to tell you, like, when we were down there trying. to do legislation, I was, at times, just stunned at the--. what you had talked about earlier, which is that we have. to go through regular order. And it was interesting to me what I discovered, to some respect, is, and this is. a terrible thing to probably say, but Congress can be bullied--. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah, no, we can. JON STEWART: --by righteousness and by doing the right thing. Like, as long as they feel like you're not going to go away.

and you're going to keep that light on them, Mitch McConnell can be--. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: It's true. JON STEWART: Yeah. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: It's true. JON STEWART: It's a very strange feeling to have that. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: And also, people are. very responsive to incentives. I think sometimes people are, rightfully, sometimes. frustrated at, like, some of the creep towards pro, you know, business and capital and this turn away from labor. JON STEWART: And does this system.

require an entrenched underclass to work properly? The way I've always looked at it is, you know, government can be an effective check. Capitalism is the system we've chosen. And it certainly is a wealth generation system. But it also has collateral damage along the way. It has destructive things that are built into its function. And maybe government's there not. necessarily to change that system of wealth generation, but to ameliorate the collateral damage.

and allow more people into that fire hose of wealth generation. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Mm-hm. Yeah, I think that's a very valid question. I think, depending on your view of the world, it is-- government either exists. to enforce that system or--. and then try to, kind of, soften the consequences of it. And that is defined by the people. that we send to represent us, that outcome. But I do think that people respond.

and elected officials respond to those incentives. As you mentioned, not only are they, you know, responsive to sunlight, you know, money isn't the only rule here. At the end of the day, people who are in Congress. want to return to Congress. And-- JON STEWART: [LAUGHS]. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: It's true. And the reason--. JON STEWART: Yeah. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: And the reason that the Republicans. have so much enforcement is because they're more scared. of a primary than they are of a general election, for multiple reasons. One, their base is highly mobilized.

Their base is highly engaged. And so if you can survive a primary, their theory of change. is that you will be able, for the most part, be able to survive a general election, which. is, I would say, true for maybe 90% to 95% of all. seats in Congress. There are very, very few swing seats left in America. Republicans-- and, you know, this whole system. has been gerrymandered that the number of swing seats. is so low.

So for everybody else, your only election--. your only election is a primary election. You know, billionaires fuel and they fund primary challenges--. Trump openly talks about that--. to keep everyone in line. But we all do have a choice. And the more choices we have and that. are more representative of the changes we want to see, the better off we all are. And we're going to lose a bunch. But we're also going to win a bunch, too. And I will always, always, always believe that it.

was always worth trying. And, in fact, it's so important that we don't. give up because people do--. JON STEWART: We can't. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: No, no, even. if you don't see a way because ways emerge. Moments emerge. I was not supposed to get elected. to Congress by any stretch of the imagination. I was insane. JON STEWART: [LAUGHS]. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Like--.

JON STEWART: You rarely hear that. from a congressional leader. "I was insane.". ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: [LAUGHS] No, I mean, like, it's not just a cute story. I was wiping down a bar and asking people to vote for me. I wasn't just, like-- it wasn't, like, a summer job I had once. I was not supposed to win. The guy I was running against spent $3 million against me. I was getting, like, $2 in my paycheck once. a week because I was working off tips. and they take it all out. You know, like, but things happen in America. JON STEWART: Right. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: This is still a place of--.

JON STEWART: But, see, you know, the promise of the possible. And that's what gives you that--. that feeling that the fight can pay off. But I think for the most part, that fight. is, you have no other option. You know, we always talk about that idea, you know, the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice. But what they don't tell you is it. doesn't bend by natural forces. Gravity is not what bends that. And there are people who are bending that fucker back. the other way. And it is-- it is effort.

It is work. And I guess-- and I thank you so much for spending. the time with us today. And it's really been a wonderfully invigorating. conversation for me to hear your passion. and to hear the fight that you have and the direction you're--. you're going in. I guess the final question is, how do you. feel about the confidence that the Democrats are being, A, honest with themselves about where they actually are, and B,

have the vision and wherewithal to begin that process. that you're talking about, about redefining it. in a way that's more responsive to the people. they purport to represent? ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah. I mean, I have a weird relationship. with the Democratic Party--. [LAUGHTER]. JON STEWART: Friends with benefits. Yeah, I get it, I get it. It's fine. Yeah. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: It's kind of like a-- like one foot. in, one foot out, right? And I think the foot out that I have is the foot that. is very attuned to people.

And the foot in that I have is, you know, this is-- it's. still the coalition that helps people, in my view. And-- and it's a coalition that we all have to be part of. And so, to me, I do think there's--. as you mentioned, I do think that there. is a little bit of this lost at sea moment happening. But as you said, there--. I see that not as a reason for despair.

I see it as a tremendous opportunity. And I've been a wrecking ball in the past. And I-- I am also--. I think that's one of the tool--. so I believe in the toolbox, right? And sometimes you need a wrecking ball. Sometimes you need a hammer. Sometimes you need a wrench. And I think in this moment, it's a tremendous window. of opportunity for efficacy. JON STEWART: Yes!

ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Whoever is most effective. is where the momentum is going to go. And so I'm-- for me, I'm just trying shit out. Like, I'm just trying shit out. And I'm just in the batting cage, and I'm just waiting for a dinger. And then--. JON STEWART: I gotta tell you, there are so many metaphors, I don't even know what to do anymore. I've got-- I've got a toolkit and a batting cage. And I don't know what the hell is happening. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: That's what it's going to take, just throwing everything at it. JON STEWART: All those-- all those different things.

Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, New York's 14th District. Thank you so much for spending the time with us today. I really appreciate it. Hope to see you again soon. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Totally. Thank you, Jon. Appreciate it. JON STEWART: All right, bye-bye. [MUSIC PLAYING]. Fantastic. We are back. We're joined by Lauren Walker, Gillian. Spear, Brittany Mehmedovic. Fantastic, I say! WOMAN 1: Good. WOMAN 2: She's so good. JON STEWART: I exclaim. [LAUGHTER]. I love her attitude at the end. It's like, get caught stealing.

You know, get caught trying, Democrats, please. JON STEWART: I really think this time--. this time in Congress, she is going to get in a fistfight. And not with a Republican, with another--. I think she's going to deck Steny Hoyer. I think he is going down. She's throwing a roundhouse, and it is over. I love the no wallowing. There was no despair. There was no sense all is lost. There was no sense that it's Sisyphus.

at the bottom of a mountain. She was all like, let's roll up the sleeves and get in there. and make this shit right. And I think that is exactly the attitude. that is missing and necessary. WOMAN 1: Yes. WOMAN 2: I loved it. WOMAN 3: Agreed. WOMAN 2: She was like, you never know when opportunities. will present themselves. And she's an example of that. JON STEWART: Right. WOMAN 1: Exactly right. WOMAN 3: If you're tuning in for liberal tears, you know, find another podcast. JON STEWART: What? No liberal tears here, for God's sakes. WOMAN 2: We got a listener question.

JON STEWART: Yeah. WOMAN 2: "Jon, how do you think the media should effectively. cover Trump this time? JON STEWART: First of all, I don't think. Trump is a different creature. Like, this idea somehow that the media must adopt, oh, it's. Trump, and that's different. Like, the media should have a prescribed methodology. that can be applied to all who come there. And what-- what that should be is to litigate the boundaries. of our shared reality, to stop pretending. we live in separate universes. No, we don't. We live in the universe.

We live in the world. There is reality. The media's job is to litigate that--. the boundaries of that shared reality. through a process of standards of evidentiary truth. That's fucking it. And no more like, is that racist? Will you promise to honor the 2020-- the 2020 result? Like, litigate the why. Litigate the boundaries of our shared reality. And that is how you should cover everything. WOMAN 2: Preach.

WOMAN 1: Mic drop. JON STEWART: D'oh! D'oh! And I-- and I end with this--. d'oh! [LAUGHTER]. But you guys are doing good. I'm excited that we're back, and we're--. we're fucked. WOMAN 3: We're good? Is that what you just asked? I think-- I think the Nazi salutes maybe made me wake up. on the wrong side of the bed. But--. JON STEWART: That was bananas. And it's-- what I love about it is like, there they go. again, overreacting. And you're like, you have to admit, like, even if it's.

the awkwardness of, you know, and neurodivergence or a thing. that always occurs, like, you have to admit it. is worthy of people going like, what the fuck was that? WOMAN 2: Yeah. JON STEWART: Especially coupled with ideological turns. that you've very clearly taken on your platform. Like, this all does fit together. It's not like it comes out of nowhere. You know, you did, like, do this. Like, [INAUDIBLE]. And everybody's like, wow, that looked like he was doing,

like, his own air trombone. Like, it was what it was. And I think it's very reasonable for any observer. to be like, huh, that was fucking weird. WOMAN 2: But even-- even the ADL was like, uh, he's a little different. And, like, what? JON STEWART: Yeah. Fuck those guys anyway. Like, they're-- they're the worst. And all these guys have--. I mean, the best one to me is Zuckerberg. You know, for Zuckerberg to show up there. And, you know, then he goes on Rogan, and he's like,

the Biden administration yelled at me and tried to censor me. Like, Trump threatened to put you in jail. He threatened to put you in jail. for doing much less than what Elon did to get Trump elected. You know, he had his Democracy Project, and it turned out more of the money. went to Democratic states. And so he was enemy number one. He became, you know, Soros Junior at that point. Elon just basically gave--. gave a million dollars to anybody. walking by in Pennsylvania. Everybody's like, oh, yeah, no, that's cool. That's-- that's all fine.

And Zuckerberg is pretending that he had a revelation. I had a revelation that the Biden administration. wanted to censor. No, you were threatened with jail. And they even asked Trump, why do you think Zuckerberg, you know, came to you hat in hand? And Trump was like, well, I threatened to put him in jail. WOMAN 2: Yeah. JON STEWART: Like--. WOMAN 1: Just calling balls and strikes. JON STEWART: Fuck it all. That's all I'm saying. But I was very happy to talk to the congresswoman.

I'm always very happy to talk to you guys. Where-- how else can the people talk to us, Brittany? BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Twitter, we are @WeeklyShowPod. Instagram, Threads, TikTok, and Blue Sky, we are #WeeklyShowPodcast. And you can like and subscribe our YouTube channel, The Weekly. Show with Jon Stewart. JON STEWART: Yeah, do that. By the way, last week's episode with Jon Meacham, now my mom. thinks I'm smart. WOMAN 3: Oh. It's all been worth it then. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: You got there. JON STEWART: She doesn't-- she loves. Jon Meacham and doesn't particularly. care for what I have to say. But the fact that he was on there.

and didn't call me a dumbass, I have now been elevated. So--. BRITTANY MEHMEDOVIC: Oh, congrats. JON STEWART: Oh, thank you so much. Very, very appreciated. Lead producer, Lauren Walker. Producer, Brittany Mehmedovic. Video Editor and Engineer, Rob Vitolo. Audio editor and engineer, Nicole Boyce. Researcher and associate producer, Gillian Spear. And of course, our executive producers, Chris McShane, Caity Gray. Thank you all so much. And we will see you next week and continue this conversation. about America.

All right, talk to you then. Bye, guys. The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart. is a Comedy Central podcast that's produced by Paramount. Audio and Busboy Productions. [THEME MUSIC].