How Trump is Cashing In on the Presidency | The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart

JON STEWART: Let that be a lesson, by the way, to the kids. out there. Never take an emolument. If any of your classmates, if anybody. offers you an emolument, tell them constitutionally. [MUSIC PLAYING]. Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Weekly Show Podcast. My name is Jon Stewart. It is Wednesday. It's May 14. The President is in the middle of his Tour of Kings--. his King of Kings tour, Kings of Comedy tour,

Kings of Corruption tour. He is on his way. I have to say, I don't know that I've. ever seen the president so happy and comfortable. I think this is his--. this is his happy place--. being with kings, having just a lot of camels. I would not be surprised if when. the President comes back from the Middle East, he ditches pantaloons. I believe he may think, you know what? These guys have it-- the free flowing robe.

Let the boys breathe. Let me have it. Because I think the accouterments of monarchy. truly suits him. He seems happier. Maybe when he's done being president--. if, I should qualify--. if he's done being president, that is where he will end up--. in the way that the Shah of Iran ends up sort of in exile.

somewhere else, he may end up there, because I think. that's how he views the world. Who's in charge here? That dude, the dude with the robe who's got the giant sword? He's in charge? Let's make a deal with him. It's why he fucking hates Canada and the EU now. It's like, what do we have to do? Well, we have a congress. We have to check with them. And then the parliament's going to vote on it. He's like, ah. Just give me the plane, and I will give you these weapons.

And that's how shit's going to go down. I'll be honest with you--. I expect big things to come out of these meetings, because this is the type of deal-making that he prefers. He doesn't want to talk about--. you saw today. He was sitting with Mohammed bin Salman. He's like, you should really take. all the everything away from Syria, the sanctions and everything. He's like, you make a very convincing case. I'll just go do it.

He could come back-- you don't even know. what he's going to come back. He could come back and just be like, Palestine's a state, actually. Israel, you're out. And now he's got the South African refugees are allowed. in, because that's a genocide. Look, there's children in Gaza, apparently, that should get visas right away if that's. going to be the rule. I mean, you don't know what's going to happen because there. is no larger governing principle other.

than, I like these guys. I dig these guys. They treat me well. I'll treat them well. Handshake. You scratch my back--. it's pure transactional wildness. And I think he prefers it. And it's the level of the corruption--. because this is how those countries. operate to begin with. They have sovereign funds. Hey, you know what we should do? Buy some golfers.

How much do you think it would cost for a Mickelson? $200 million. Trump is Shopify for nations. All this stuff's coming up on my feed. I guess they really know what I like. Let me just press this button. Hey, look at that. I just bought a golf course in Doha. Boy. I swear to God, he is a Greek mythological figure, and not in the good way--. in the Icarus way, in the King Midas.

Oh, my god, everything I want to touch turns to gold. Oh no. My balls. So we're going to talk a little bit about these systems now. and how we are operating as a country. with two experts on the topic. And we'll get to them right now. [MUSIC PLAYING]. So corruption, conflict of interest--.

this is all the name of the game that we are talking. And we're delighted to have our guest today, Susan Glasser, staff writer at The New Yorker, co-author of The Divider--. Trump in the White House 2017-2021. I'm assuming there will be a sequel, because, I don't know if you guys have heard, he's back. And Eric Lipton, who is an investigative reporter. in the Washington bureau of the New York Times and has. wrote about these issues--. Susan and Eric, thank you so much for taking the time. Eric, I'm going to start with you, because you're.

in mid-kerfuffle right now. You are kerfuffling as we speak. You've been writing about these conflicts. of interest and corruption. Can you explain to us very briefly. what happened to Ignite Blue Sky, which turned into Red Sky. when they got hold of this? Eric, what happened? ERIC LIPTON: I've been writing about the Trump family. for a decade now. And I've been watching the conflicts of interest that. emerge from the mixing of their personal businesses.

with the governance of the United States. And at The Times, we're quite careful about the terms. that we use. And what I'm seeing in this administration, without question, is conflicts of interest. These are not apparent conflicts. These are real conflicts. I'm seeing ethics violations. I'm seeing unprecedented breaking of norms in terms. of these financial conflicts. But when you use the word "corruption," to me, you really need a quid pro quo, which is you need to take.

a gift, and then the action that comes. as a result of that gift needs to be in response. to that specific gift. And I think that there is the appearance of corruption. and the governance is being corrupted. But whether or not President Trump. is acting in a corrupt way--. JON STEWART: People were upset that you were not. being definitive enough about calling it corruption, because you were using the more legal. definition, which has been watered down, I guess,

by the Supreme Court. Is that sort of where all this is coming from? ERIC LIPTON: I mean, I relate more to the terminology, like, around a bribe. A bribe is something-- when you take. money and you respond to that bribe offer with a direct--. with that cash. JON STEWART: You got to go full Menendez. You got to go full, I have gold bars sewn into my jacket, and I am going to be now giving Egypt. a better deal because of that. ERIC LIPTON: I think the governance has been corrupted. through this process.

As to whether or not President Trump is acting corruptly is--. I'm observing and waiting for additional evidence. JON STEWART: Agnostic. ERIC LIPTON: I'm interested, Susan, in what you think. Maybe you disagree. JON STEWART: Susan, talk to me. Talk to me, Susan. This word "corruption.". SUSAN GLASSER: Look, let's stipulate on the front end. here that corruption knows no party and no bounds. We are here in Washington, both Eric and I, and we've been around long enough to see. Democrats and Republicans-- of course, Menendez not the only gold bar. I remember there was a Congressman, Bill.

Jefferson, years ago, they found piles of cash. in his freezer. JON STEWART: In his freezer. SUSAN GLASSER: In his freezer. Right. So I want to say that on the front end. However, I also want to say that even for we journalists. who are generally allergic and should use this word. "unprecedented" very, very sparingly, that this is a fair word, in my view, to use right. now for what's happening. And the reason that I think Eric is being cautious about. the word "corruption"-- it's good to be cautious, but what I would say is that that's what we used to have.

a Justice Department for. And the thing that, I think, is the particular tragedy. of the moment is not only that Donald Trump and his family. members are literally adding zeros. to the amounts involved in any previous known examples--. JON STEWART: They're doing quite well. SUSAN GLASSER: They're adding a lot of zeros. JON STEWART: There's no freezer big enough to put what. they're getting into there. SUSAN GLASSER: Can you put Air Force One in a freezer? No. JON STEWART: Yes. SUSAN GLASSER: It's not only the scale and scope. of the corruption that take it into a different realm, but the fact that they've systematically.

gone after weakening the rule of law that would go along. with constraining our leaders from accepting. this kind of money. It used to be a big to do something. that had the appearance of potential impropriety. or the appearance of confruction--. JON STEWART: The whiff. The whiff. SUSAN GLASSER: I mean, this is what a lot of Washington, quote unquote, "accountability" reporting was like. when I got here as a kid right out of college in the. 1990s, OK? There was a whole Bill Clinton fundraising scandal, no.

controlling legal authority. Yeah. Forget about that, right? OK. Now, we've just exploded the campaign finance laws. We have, and I'm sure we'll talk about it, crypto. coin for the Trump family that's. literally going into the pocket of the President of the United. States. JON STEWART: Right. The meme coin. SUSAN GLASSER: For me, this issue of--. I'm glad we started with this question of when. is it corruption or not. Because if we stick to that legal definition, Eric, unfortunately, in a world where Donald Trump has appointed.

his former personal lawyer to be the Attorney. General of the United States, who literally was. a registered foreign lobbyist for the government of Qatar, and has, according to you and your colleagues at the New York. Times, personally signed off on a legal guidance. allowing Donald Trump to accept a $400 million. Boeing jet to be the new Air Force One from Qatar--. JON STEWART: Yes. In his defense, it is a very nice plane, apparently. It is two bedrooms, nine bathrooms.

If this were being rented on the Upper West Side, I think people would throw down quite a bit for it. But let's talk about-- so this is what brings up. I find this to be a fascinating discussion, because in the United States, there's this idea, this fiction, I think--. and the same with separation of church and state. There is this wall, the separation. of governance and business. But that separation with Trump does not exist.

But let's roll back further than Pam Bondi. and whatever the DOJ might be saying about this jet, and let's talk about what has set the ground for this, which, I think, is Citizens United, A, right, all those campaign financing--. B, which was when the Supreme Court. said it has to be an explicit, right, quid pro quo. Is that case, for the former governor of Virginia? ERIC LIPTON: Right. And was ultimately acquitted.

JON STEWART: And then the third leg of this chair. is the decision that the president is immune. from any of these kinds of corruption investigations. as long as he is acting within the bounds. of his presidential duties. Given those three tentpoles, is there. a world where even explicit quid pro quo.

can be investigated when it comes to the activities. of the president? Haven't we disarmed our entire ethics infrastructure. through the Supreme Court? I'm not even talking about he's doing unprecedented things. Eric, I'll start with you. ERIC LIPTON: Yeah. It is a really important question. I mean, first of all, the president is exempt under law. from the criminal conflict of interest law. It's a crime, and you could go to jail as a federal employee. for taking an action--.

a particular action that impacts. your family, or yourself, and your financial interests. And you could be charged by the Justice Department. if the Justice Department were investigating that. The president and the vice president are exempt from that. And this President has cited that frequently--. I have no conflicts of interest. Legally--. JON STEWART: I can't. ERIC LIPTON: Right. But what the Supreme Court did last year, it opens a question as to whether or not. the Justice Department could even charge the president. with accepting a bribe. Because if it's an official act,

there is an open question-- there's a footnote in that. decision, which leaves slightly ambiguous. as to whether or not--. actually in what the Supreme Court majority wrote, there's a footnote that leaves a bit unclear whether or not. there's enough room still to charge. a president with bribery. JON STEWART: And how would you gather evidence if you're. not allowed to get his--. everything's under executive privilege. ERIC LIPTON: The Constitution does make clear, though--. the language in the Constitution does--. impeachment, that one of the crimes and misdemeanors that.

could justify impeachment, the word specifically, "bribery,". is there in the Constitution as grounds. for an impeachment proceeding. JON STEWART: Well, isn't it even the emoluments clause--. isn't that--. doesn't that, in and of itself, justify not being. able to take a giant plane--. ERIC LIPTON: The emoluments clause. could result in a civil suit against the president that. would require the president to give back. the emolument that he or she received.

from the foreign government. And it could also be the basis of, potentially, an impeachment proceeding. But it wouldn't be a criminal matter. JON STEWART: Let that be a lesson, by the way, to kids. out there. Never take an emolument. If any of your classmates, if anybody. offers you an emolument, tell them, constitutionally. ERIC LIPTON: Right. JON STEWART: All right, quick break, and then we shall be right back. [MUSIC PLAYING]. Guys, I don't know if you guys are aware of this, but getting through the news is--.

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ERIC LIPTON: The bottom line question. that you ask is that, over a series of things that have. happened over the last decade, it has made. these questions much harder. And it's also part of the reason that--. what's happening is a conflict of interest. It is unethical. It is unprecedented. It is corrupting the government. I agree with all those things. JON STEWART: Right. ERIC LIPTON: But whether or not it is legally, he is acting corruptly, I think that has become. a harder question to answer. JON STEWART: Right. ERIC LIPTON: But it almost doesn't matter.

I think it's the-- these terms are important. And we have to be careful with the words we use. But it doesn't matter because what's happening. is unethical, and wrong, and it's. just damaging to American history and to democracy. And we are committed, and Susan is as well--. we're documenting this. The thing that I think really matters as a reporter. is that let's get the primary details, the primary documents, the proof. And let's bring that to the public. And that's what we've been doing. JON STEWART: Transparency. It's the only thing you can do. ERIC LIPTON: Right. We are the only thing left of accountability.

The Justice Department-- the IGs have been fired. JON STEWART: Oh, my god. ERIC LIPTON: The Office of Government Ethics, the head. has been fired. JON STEWART: The Speaker of the House today--. this was a great one today. The Speaker of the House, I don't know if you. saw this, Mike Johnson--. so they asked him about these gifts. that are coming, to your point, Eric, of the unprecedented nature. And he said, this is nothing like what. the Biden crime family did. Trump is transparent. And the reporter said, we don't know who. these meme coin people are. We don't have any information on that. They're just putting money directly in.

And he goes, I don't know anything about that. And the reporter goes, isn't Congress the oversight body? And he just goes, ah, we're good. ERIC LIPTON: Right. JON STEWART: Susan, talk about how that's changed. You were talking about, since you've been there, you've seen the erosion of these barriers. How are you seeing that play out? Because it's definitely not just this administration. SUSAN GLASSER: Oh, no. I mean, this is the final death rattle of the post-Nixon era, post-Watergate reforms that were designed to protect.

the country, in many ways, and protect. our political system from the kind of abuses. that Richard Nixon envisioned. Because it wasn't just, by the way, his specific cover up of Watergate. There were a whole host of abuses of power. JON STEWART: That's why Agnew went down, right? Didn't Spiro Agnew--. SUSAN GLASSER: Well, that's right. The vice president. That was actually for corruption of a very old. fashioned Menendez-like crime. He was literally getting bags of cash. predating his time in the federal government.

as vice president--. JON STEWART: I believe Bebe Rebozo had a slush fund, and they were all--. SUSAN GLASSER: That's right. Richard Nixon was seeking to weaponize. the IRS against his political opponents. I mean, there was a whole array of abuses of power. that will be very familiar to anybody who's. spent any time reading Eric's terrific coverage in the New. York Times about the Trump family. and its, essentially, use of the inner--. basically, the unclear barriers between their personal. financial interests, their personal political interests,

and use of official government agencies and actions. to benefit themselves in a whole host of ways, both personally, financially, and politically. That's what Donald Trump's 2019 impeachment was over, was, essentially, seeking to take hundreds of millions. of dollars in military and security assistance. that the United States Congress had authorized for Ukraine--. JON STEWART: Quid pro quo. SUSAN GLASSER: And to say, I'm not. going to give that to you unless you undertake. this personal political errand for me of investigating.

my political opponents. So this is Donald Trump's playbook, his MO. And the scale and scope of it is, frankly, Richard Nixon's fever dream. [JON LAUGHING]. I mean, the level of-- not only the dollar. signs, but across such a wide array of fronts. And the fact that Trump sort of does it almost in front of us, flaunting us, has served, in a bizarre way, to insulate him. But you're right, Jon, I think, to underscore that Trump is.

the beneficiary of this erosion over time of these laws. and institutions. And, by the way, one of the most important. of the post-Watergate reforms was a level of campaign. finance limits, disclosure. There was even a system of public financing. that had previously collapsed for our presidential. general election nominees. And the Supreme Court, essentially, dealt the final blow to those post-Watergate campaign finance. rules in its Citizens United thing. And, actually, last year, when I went back and did a big piece.

for The New Yorker on the kind of Republican. fundraising in this post-Citizens United era, and looking at, basically, the final co-opting. of the Republican establishment on behalf of Donald. Trump in the 2024 campaign, the amount of money that. was flowing into Donald Trump's coffers in that campaign, that should have been this incredible warning. sign for democracy. And, of course, we all know now that Elon Musk managed.

to spend, at a minimum, around $300 million, essentially, to promote Trump and other Republican candidates. and causes last year. It's just an extraordinary amount. And I think it's the classic thing-- the red lines were. crossed before people even understood. that they were red lines. And now, we're living in a world. where what really frightens me is, as Eric said, that most of the watchdogs are gone.

Most of the accountability that had been built in our system. is gone. And even when journalists like Eric at The Times. started doing this great reporting, the public is, even those people. who don't like Trump, I fear, is supined is overwhelmed--. JON STEWART: No question. SUSAN GLASSER: Is unable to meaningfully. process how serious a blow this is to our democracy. And, actually, what I'm worried about--. I don't know if both of you think this. as well-- what I'm worried about right now is that we're. actually seeing corruption being institutionalized.

into our executive branch and Congress refusing to operate. as any kind of a check and balance in ways that will. actually have long term ramifications. even beyond the personal enrichment of Trump. and his family. JON STEWART: I agree wholeheartedly. And, Eric, I'll get to you on this, because to that point, Susan, what I would say is right. now, the only check on any sort of corruption is partisanship--. is ideological opposition.

The Republicans were very clear about going after the Joe. Biden crime family. They wanted to impeach on that. But even impeachment, I think, has. shown itself to be a feckless check on whatever corruption--. the situation in Ukraine, in terms of weapons. shipments for investigations into a political opponent. is as clear cut as you can possibly be, let alone the January 6 insurrection as clear cut. an impeachment as it can be.

And it failed, basically, because, at its heart, it's a political process. And the political process is broken. But I'll go further than that. Eric, I once asked Nancy Pelosi, she was on the show, and she was talking about we got. to get money out of politics. It corrupts people. And I said, well, you raised $32 million for your PAC. And she said, that's different. And I said, well, why is that different? And she said, because it doesn't corrupt us.

I said, well, you just said money corrupts. Yes, them. But what about you? No. And even when Ed Martin, when he took over for the DNC--. what did he say? We need these billionaires out. Their billionaires, not our billionaires. Our billionaires are good. Their billionaires are bad. So the system, I fear, has surrendered. We've already surrendered. Now, it's just a question of, how bad is this going to. get, Eric? ERIC LIPTON: Yeah.

I mean, I think, unfortunately, campaign finance at this point, given the Supreme Court actions, is sort of a lost cause. And I don't really see, unless you kind of completely. remake the Supreme Court, how we're ever going back. And what we're seeing is the personal enrichment of--. with Trump, he is both, effectively, the chief regulator of securities and exchange. by appointing the head of the SEC. And his family now runs one of the world's. largest cryptocurrency stablecoin issuers.

that is regulated. So he is both the regulator and the regulated. That's the threshold that we have crossed. that really has no precedent. And the campaign finance and the corruption of government. through influence and access that comes with campaign. donations has been something we have. written about for many years and tried to document. But we just have never seen something where the elected. official is personally benefiting to the extent. that Trump is through his family. So, like, the whole campaign finance debate is important,

but it's, like, tangential to what's. going on here, which is direct personal enrichment in a way--. the fact is that, like, President. Trump will benefit from--. there's this legislation pending in Congress called. the Genius Act that would, for the first time, recognize the issuance of stablecoins, which are. a form of cryptocurrency, as legally. part of the financial system in the United States. JON STEWART: As a security or just--. ERIC LIPTON: As a form of currency, basically-- as an alternative form of currency, that.

you have a form of crypto that's worth $1 consistently, and it's backed up with treasuries, and it's constantly worth $1. JON STEWART: FDIC insured? ERIC LIPTON: It's not insured. JON STEWART: OK. ERIC LIPTON: But it would be-- it would be recognized. by the government, and it would be regulated by the government. But once that happens, whether it does create. a regulatory structure-- and to some extent, you'd think the industry doesn't. want that-- but what the industry recognizes. is as soon as that exists, then banks. and other financial institutions. will begin to embrace stablecoins. And they will really become almost. a competitor of credit cards and financial-- cash and--.

JON STEWART: Oh, my god. ERIC LIPTON: So the Trump family, they. are the seventh largest stablecoin. issuer in the United States. JON STEWART: Wait, you issue stablecoins? It doesn't have to be created through mining or anything? You just issue it? ERIC LIPTON: You issue it. And the Trumps got $2 billion worth of stablecoin deposits. from the government of UAE a few weeks ago just. before Trump flew over there. And now, overnight, they became one of the world's largest.

issuers of stablecoins. And Trump is urging Congress to act on this legislation, and he's going to sign it. But his family is already profiting, and he is profiting enormously, off of the same industry. that he is giving birth to as the top regulator. We've never seen anything like that. That is such a blatant conflict of interest. JON STEWART: But isn't he just exploiting--. don't we owe him, to some extent, a debt of gratitude? Is he not making explicit what is the operating system--.

oftentimes, we like to pretend it's not--. of the world, which is a pay to play system. where the rich and the powerful have. an unusual backscratching relationship. and access to each other--. I'll give you an example. So here's the small bore example of that. Susan, you can talk to this. Congressional members serve on committees. that regulate pharmaceuticals, other types of things. They can also trade stocks.

And there are numerous examples of congressional leaders being. in meetings where they learn information about what is going. to happen to a certain product that is going to have. profound impact on stocks, and then making trades that. play upon that information. And nothing ever happens to them. And how is that different other than the scale? Isn't he just super sizing the corruption. that we have allowed?

SUSAN GLASSER: I mean, I take the point. But I think that we're capable of holding. multiple different levels of thoughts in our head. And the difference between the petty crook. who keeps cash stashed in his freezer and the most powerful. man in the world accepting billions of dollars. in personal enrichment, while at the same time. negotiating major international arrangements, is so fundamentally different in scale, scope, and character that it is,

of course, a much greater thing. JON STEWART: I say scale and scope--. SUSAN GLASSER: There are sins, and there are sins. JON STEWART: Is insider trading amongst congressional people. really different in character? SUSAN GLASSER: Yes, it is. By the way, it's interesting--. I think insider trading among members of Congress. is a good example of something that they. may finally be doing something about right. now, which is something. But it's like handing out traffic tickets when, you know, the head of the city is a murderer.

I mean, the scale of the actions that you're talking. about are so vastly different. And I think Eric is making a point here that imagine, essentially, if Andrew Carnegie or John D. Rockefeller was the President of the United States setting. the rules by which he could have that railroad monopoly. in the end of the 19th century, and disabling his competitors, and rigging the system in every possible way, and performing.

both functions all at once. JON STEWART: All right. We're going to take a quick break, and then right back. [MUSIC PLAYING]. Hey, everyone, Jon Stewart here. Do you guys get hungry? I know I do. And when I get hungry, I love to have a sandwich. Sandwiches, it's a fantastic--. I don't know if you've had them. I've talked to people, and they're. like, macaroni and cheese. Yes, fine. You can eat that, too, in a bowl. But a bowl is not how, certainly, lunch should occur.

So for me, the sandwich is the perfect choice. You can take a variety of different breads. and a variety of different ingredients and combine them. I'm telling you, the options are limitless. So the next time you find yourselves hungry, try a sandwich. They're delicious. SUSAN GLASSER: On the crypto thing--. by the way, it's not just Donald Trump and his sons who.

are now in this business that the government is, essentially, going to determine the future of at the same time. they're earning money from it. Their partners in this business are. the sons of Steve Witkoff, Donald Trump's. everything envoy, who is--. [JON LAUGHING]. No, that's literally true. And who is traveling the world, going from Gaza and Hamas, to meeting with Putin all by himself without a translator, to Iran.

Witkoff and his two sons are the business partners of Donald. Trump and his two sons. Howard Lutnick is a huge proponent and investor. in the crypto industry. Last summer, I think one of the signal moments--. very overlooked, although covered. in The Times, and The Journal, and elsewhere--. was when Donald Trump took time out of the campaign trail. in 2024 and went to Nashville, Tennessee, for the annual National Crypto Conference. He was cheered like a hero by the crypto industry.

And he made promises that he is now fulfilling. to this industry, to, essentially, help treat it. like a currency and to give it the status that. will enable them to become even more wealthy. And he followed that up in September, again, in the middle of this campaign, by taking time out. to announce that they were going to get into the crypto. business with the Witkoffs and his sons. and create this company called World Liberty Financial.

There's a classic quote from Donald Trump, because he used to call crypto a, quote, "scam.". JON STEWART: Yes. Yes. SUSAN GLASSER: And then when he made this announcement. in September of 2024, he said, well, I don't really know what. it is, but everybody's got--. JON STEWART: Everybody's in on it. Everybody says it's great. So I'm going to do it. SUSAN GLASSER: Yeah. JON STEWART: Yeah. No, you're dead on right. You brought up a really interesting point, Susan, which is you kind of reflected it back. to imagine if Andrew Carnegie or any of these guys. was also president. There is a really unique situation here--. to Mike Johnson's point, which is,

well, the Biden crime family, they're not business people. Trump is a business person. So why shouldn't he--. rather than corruption, isn't he just monetizing his brand. Isn't that how he would view it? How is that different from the Biden family, which is, what, consultants and lawyers? I don't know. ERIC LIPTON: I think you can answer that question by looking. at the differences between the first term and the second term. And in the first term, the president and his family. agreed to not do what they called new international deals.

JON STEWART: To avoid the conflict. ERIC LIPTON: Right. So they continued to run their real estate business. And, now, we did all right about the Trump International. Hotel in DC and how it became a den of lobbyists. and foreign diplomats that were buying. $50 martinis or $100 Trump seafood. towers at the Benjamin bar. [JON LAUGHING]. JON STEWART: By the way, the crab was fantastic. ERIC LIPTON: Yeah. Mar-a-Lago also became a magnet. And he tried to bring, like, the G-7 to Trump Doral.

And those-- but they were not, in fact, doing deals overseas. JON STEWART: Still small ball. ERIC LIPTON: But now, not only are they doing. new international deals, but they're actually. doing new international deals with foreign. government entities. So UAE is putting $2 billion into the World Liberty. Financial in stablecoins. Qatar, just a couple of weeks ago, signed a deal to do a $5 billion. real estate project that's going to have a Trump Hotel.

Oman has a project--. it's leasing the land for another project that's going. to have a Trump golf course. JON STEWART: The Saudis gave $2 billion to Jared Kushner. to invest, didn't they? ERIC LIPTON: Right. And Serbia, at the site that NATO bombed during the Clinton. administration to stop the Balkans War, is now turning that same site over to Jared Kushner, where there's going to be a Trump Hotel. And Donald Trump, Jr. was in Serbia having dinner. with the president of Serbia. And the president of Serbia posted on Facebook.

how I'm roasting a pig tonight to have dinner. with the son of the President of the United States, as he's trying to keep his job as president, because there's. huge protest in Serbia. JON STEWART: Oh, dear lord. ERIC LIPTON: And he's giving land. to the family of the president to build. the Trump International Hotel. So having that kind of interactions. with foreign governments at the same time. that you are directing foreign policy. and making decisions, for example, should Saudi Arabia be able to get F-35s? Should the United States authorize.

the sale of advanced I chips to Saudi Arabia or to UAE? Qatar, and what role is it--. the military presence in Qatar. And Serbia-- should Serbia-- should. the United States help Serbia's effort to get into the EU? I mean, these are all huge. And how are those choices influenced by the fact. that money is flowing from those governments. personally to the pockets of the President. of the United States? JON STEWART: That's right. ERIC LIPTON: That creates an appearance of corruption that, really, undermines the legitimacy. of government in a way that, for any person,

would be disturbing. And it's happening again, and again, and again in front of us at a scale that's totally--. it's much worse than the first term. JON STEWART: But what you just said there, I thought, was really the crucial point, which. is undermining the stability. For those of us-- and this part, I think it's important to get into. Because all these ideas of, well, they're. going to benefit from this, and they're. going to benefit from that. It's all sort of amorphous, right? So let's get into what can be the real ramifications of this.

Those systems that don't have the institutional checks. undergirding their financial situation. or any of those other things are less stable. They are more-- the governments that function in this way, much. more autocratically, much more the kleptocracies, all those other things, hollow out the civil institutions. that hold countries together in difficult times.

It's why you see those countries and systems. collapse violently. When we talk about the ramifications of this, and we really want to get into, what. are we risking, is that something that comes to mind? SUSAN GLASSER: Jon, right now, the United States of America. is the single largest source of global instability. JON STEWART: That's bold.

SUSAN GLASSER: Yeah. I mean, there's no question about that. When a superpower goes rogue--. [JON LAUGHING]. You have an enormous crisis for the world. And the one element that we should add to Eric's already. very daunting and distressing list of ways in which. the co-mingling of Trump's personal business. and America's foreign policy interests create a crisis is, of course, Donald Trump's single-handed upending. of the world economy by imposing, quote unquote,

"reciprocal" tariffs that aren't reciprocal. on, essentially, all of the world's major economies, and, in particular, targeting America's allies, as much, if not more so, than most of her adversaries. And the reason this matters is because this. is the ultimate vehicle for conflicts of interest, for ways in which the President of the United States. personally is the decider on what happens to the fate. of countries and companies. And that opens up corruption.

Every lobbyist in the world is busy investing and getting. other companies to invest in lobbyists who. have direct connections to the Trump family. here in Washington right now. The reason for that is that Donald Trump has fundamentally. shifted the balance of power in our society to, essentially, instead of a rule of law society, to, essentially, a personalist regime. JON STEWART: Transactional. SUSAN GLASSER: He's become the kind of instability. that you're talking about. That was America's theory of the case in what we saw.

in the 1990s as kind of the democratizing world--. as, like, democracies don't go to war against each other. This notion, call it the quaint Washington consensus. of the late Clinton era, which was the notion that integrating. countries who had previously been outcasts into the world. economic and political order, drawing China and Russia. into the rule of law, to the web of institutions. would lead to democratization, to further stability, and to further peace in the world.

It didn't work out that way. And so now, we have a situation where, a quarter century later, it's the United States that has gone rogue. on the very institutions in the world that. have actually secured and maintained our power. So, for example, Donald Trump is. going after-- he doesn't like the idea that the US. dollar is so strong. He wants to weaken the US dollar. JON STEWART: Right. SUSAN GLASSER: He's risking undermining. the US dollar as the global reserve currency. And why does that matter? Because that's one of the main reasons that we're all so rich.

and we enjoy this incredible lifestyle here in the world. When countries are making, now, a determination that Donald. Trump is not just some crazy four-year aberration. in the world, but he might actually be a long term. new direction for the United States. and, therefore, the world, they're. making decisions in a way that I think they were avoiding. making in Trump's first term that really. have the kind of consequences. But, yeah, I don't think it's overstating it.

Maybe you guys do. But, in my view, we're the instability. JON STEWART: No, I think changing it. into a transaction-- and I'll go further. Eric, maybe one of the reasons why Trump has a bigger problem. now with Canada and with the EU is that they still. operate through this system of democratic checks and balances. It's a bit more bureaucratic. It is not one man, one man sitting. in a room shaking a hand, going, I'll give you a jet, and you'll give me this.

It's not as transactional because it. goes through the processes that are created. by constitutional stability. But if you remove that, you really are knocking away--. you're hollowing something out that has worked. for us for a very long time. Yes? ERIC LIPTON: Yeah. No, it's really interesting just because this nation, for decades now, has been the promoter. of what is called the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. I mean, we were, effectively, punishing companies,

and governments, and nations around the world--. if there ever was any type of a government. contract that involved a payment to an executive--. a bribe, basically. And the United States was trying to enforce its value. system across the world for decades. now in Africa and Europe. And Trump has basically announced that FCPA, which. is the lingo in DC, that they're not really. going to do Foreign Corrupt Practices. Act enforcement anymore.

JON STEWART: No. He said, basically, if you can't bribe foreign leaders, you are going to put American businesses at a disadvantage. So we have to be able to bribe. I guess the question is, is he just saying, well, I'm going to operate in the world. as it is, not in the world as we would like it to be? ERIC LIPTON: I mean, I think the United States. was successful, in a way. I mean, there's still parts of-- particularly, like, Democratic Republic of Congo, which I've spent. some time writing about--.

it's still overt. And the American companies left DRC, mining companies, because they were. so concerned about the corruption. and being accused of it. But the United States, to some extent, has succeeded in really discouraging. that kind of corruption. And so when you say Europe, and Canada, and other nations are like--. they're reacting, like, how is this possible--. because the United States has successfully created a norm. that, now, Trump is exploding. And so, I mean, to some extent, he's benefiting--.

JON STEWART: And not just exploding, suggesting that creating that norm made us suckers. And that we are the big losers of the international order. that we created. SUSAN GLASSER: That is such an important point. Donald Trump sketches this American hellscape vision, which is fascinating for the guy--. JON STEWART: Shining city on fire on a hill. SUSAN GLASSER: Yeah, exactly. The dumpster fire vision of America. is what he's been selling to his base.

for, essentially, this whole almost decade. that he's been in politics. And it's completely at odds with the notion--. if America was getting ripped off and was at a disadvantage, because we wouldn't pay bribes and everybody else would, then how come we were the world's largest, most successful economy? How come everybody from around the world wanted to come here? How come our regulatory norms used to be the leading norms. for people around the world? Obviously, since the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act was. passed, I believe in the late-'70s or early-'80s, as.

kind of one of the last gasps of that post-Watergate bout. of reforms, the United States economy. has only grown and grown and become. more dominant and successful. And so it's really about making war on the idea of America. as being a kind of a value-based global superpower. And in the past, right, you look at other superpowers, other empires, they were ethnic-based. or they were nationalist at core.

And the United States was always. about the notion of an idea. Now, we didn't always live up to it. JON STEWART: And even the spreading of. it caused instability. I mean, you mentioned the past 20 years of war. to spread this stable system that completely. destabilized entire regions. SUSAN GLASSER: Yeah. And, by the way, that continues to fuel a lot of Donald. Trump, right? You can definitely continue to see him. as a reaction against the excesses. of his predecessors' foreign policy. and activism in the world.

In fact, just in his Mideast tour. this week, you hear him complaining about neocons. and military adventurers. And I'm not going to lecture you. And he's responding as much to George W. Bush's. Republican-led invasion of Iraq as he is to any acts. by Democratic predecessors. So it's a reaction. It's a reactionary movement that Trump. has led of a minority of Americans, by the way. He won the popular vote. He came just short of a majority in the 2024 election.

But, really, the core of MAGA is a minority of Americans. that have passionately subscribed. to Donald Trump's, essentially, rejectionist view. Somebody said to me, Donald Trump wants. to repeal the 20th century. Well, a lot of it came with all these rules, and norms, and laws that--. JON STEWART: Right. I mean, I think he goes by the great man theory--. like you say, the Vanderbilts, the Carnegies, the great men that created something that wasn't. stable, though. And it collapsed in the Great Depression.

And we rebuilt something that had more stability. And I think we're undervaluing all. those different institutions and checks and balances, as flawed as they may be, for holding. the world somewhat together-- financially, at least--. over this time. Would that be fair? ERIC LIPTON: Yeah. I mean, I think that if the United States is saying that it. is OK to be completely transactional. and to be accepting multibillion dollar.

payments from foreign governments. as you're making critical foreign policy decisions, it just opens up the world to a kind of a family. oligarchical global governance that isn't transparent, that doesn't have any accountability, that is. profiting a very, very thin--. it's like Turkey's government where. you're both the financial leaders. and the government leaders. And the United States worked so hard.

for so many decades to create a world. order where that was not--. we were trying to move beyond that. The consequences of this could last a really long time. if the one nation that just imposed. this new value system globally says, OK, we're done with that. We don't really agree. And we're going to start taking payments and making decisions. So, yeah, it's potentially enormously. consequential to the whole world order, honestly,

unfortunately. JON STEWART: And I talked to--. his comfort in this trip to Saudi Arabia, Qatar, you know, UAE is obvious. His comfort in a system of royalty--. he looks so much happier there than he ever does here. The only moment that I saw that felt like the Donald Trump. that we see in the United States was, I think,

somebody from ABC News asked him about the plane. And he went, that's an embarrassing question. But mostly, man, he's in his happy place. Monarchy, I think, is his happy place. I think, in some respects, is America, this constitutional republic that has survived 250 years. and built itself up over myriad difficulties. and all these-- the tumult of world. wars and everything else--. are we now just a subsidiary of the Trump organization?

SUSAN GLASSER: Certainly, in the Middle East, he is in his preferred aesthetic. There is enough gold everywhere to satisfy him. But I think you're right. He, essentially, does not subscribe. to the basic principles in our Constitution. And, in fact, he was directly asked. about this in a television interview a couple of. weeks ago--. Meet the Press, Kristen Welker. And she said, aren't you supposed.

to uphold the Constitution? He paused, and he literally said, I don't know. JON STEWART: Right. He said, I'm not a lawyer. I mean, they were talking specifically, I think, about due process for these immigration cases. And he said, I'm not a lawyer. I think what-- he's shrewder than that. I think what he is doing is doctor shopping lawyers. If a lawyer says, well, this is the Constitution, he goes, get rid of that lawyer. And get me a lawyer who'll come in here and tell me, you don't have to do due process.

SUSAN GLASSER: I think you're right that, again, this. was a key shift from Trump's first term to Trump's. second term is understanding, especially in the key positions. like attorney general, like White House counsel, you want to have lawyers who are going. to give you what you want. And so he's taken the extraordinary step. of appointing multiple of his personal lawyers, by the way. So it's not just Pam Bondi. Todd Blanche, who's the deputy attorney general, now also. acting librarian of Congress, because they fired.

the librarian of Congress--. JON STEWART: She was making inappropriate books. available to children. And you're like, you can't just--. that's not what's happening at the Library of Congress. SUSAN GLASSER: No, that is not what's happening--. JON STEWART: What are you talking about? SUSAN GLASSER: It's the personalization of power which. is so fundamentally at odds with. and incompatible with a system of constitutional checks. and balances. That's what Trump doesn't subscribe to. This goes all the way back to his first term, by the way. He said I have the power to do anything I want.

I'm the only one that matters in our system. JON STEWART: I alone can fix it. Yeah. SUSAN GLASSER: Exactly. He's long betrayed sort of a complete, not just ignorance for the Constitution, but a sort of rejection of its basic principles. So he goes to the Middle East, he's. surrounded by emirs and Kings. He's greeted with monarchical reverence. This is what he wants to be. This is who he is. It's not an accident that, since he stepped on the world. stage, it's our allies, our democratic allies he's.

consistently attacked, and it's our adversaries. that he's praised. And just a point--. it's not about lecturing, by the way. Human rights is not some abstract construct, OK? Saudi Arabia-- it's not just that they. took a bone saw to a critic of theirs, Jamal Khashoggi, who was a columnist. for The Washington Post. This is one of the most unfree societies on the planet, OK? This is a place where women don't. have basic rights granted to others.

in the West centuries ago. China-- it's not just that Donald Trump wants to treat. as an equal with Xi Jinping. It's that he's been perfectly fine-- at times, in his first term, he seemed to even waive away. or to justify China's human rights. crackdown on the Uyghurs, putting. a million people in camps. Not a big deal to Donald Trump. JON STEWART: Well, he says, always, what, are we so good? Are we so nice? And, in some respects, look, we have, oftentimes, as you said,

failed to live up to those higher ideals. But I think this goes beyond the types of higher. ideals of personal freedoms and treating. with equality and respect--. this is a whole other thing that you can back. off of personal criticism. We do business with terrible regimes all the time. And they do business with us.

But this is very different in that we're. throwing away the system for the writ of one man. That's the part that-- and, Eric, I'll ask you--. once you throw that away, do you know of a situation. where people have been able to get it back? Once you go to a transactional strongman theory of he. makes the decisions, I don't know how you claw that back. ERIC LIPTON: Unless he gets called on it. and challenged, particularly by his own party.

I was up on Capitol Hill last week--. JON STEWART: Yeah, good luck with that. ERIC LIPTON: I was on the Senate side, and I spent my entire day--. I spent, like, 10 hours right at where the senators. walked out of the chambers. I was focused almost entirely on Republicans. And I ended up speaking to over 25 US Senators. in the course of a day. I just spent the whole day there. as soon as they were walking out-- and pestering them. I was asking each one of them about the Trump meme coin, and that he's selling access to a dinner for 220.

buyers of his meme coin. Whoever spends the most money on his meme coin, they can have dinner with him. And 25 of them can have a VIP reception. And 25 of them will get a White House tour. And so, is that acceptable to you? I was asking the US Senators this. And there was only two of them that. were willing to give any-- most of them gave the answer, I don't know enough about it. The Republican-- or I don't do walk and talks. That was--. [JON LAUGHING].

JON STEWART: I don't do walk and talks. But I will never sit down with you. ERIC LIPTON: Right. Yeah. And, yeah, so I think that-- what's the lasting implication. of this? I mean, I think it really is going. to depend upon a kind of a rejection of this approach. And if that doesn't happen, then maybe it is normalized. But so far, I mean, the Qatar 747, you're hearing resistance from Republicans in the Senate, in particular. And if it really does start to go forward, there could be a significant backlash there.

Each step that seems more outrageous--. there's a certain hint of maybe he's gone too far. And so, to answer your question, how normalized this becomes, it really. depends upon if it becomes normal, and if, as an American public, we begin to accept it. And, as Susan says, one of the challenges that we face. as reporters is that even when we write these stories, we try to make sure that they're understandable, plain language, and that they're distinct, I don't sense that they're resonating as much.

I mean, the American public is sort of like, well, there's. nothing we can do about it. This is-- and it just--. I don't feel like the public is as. engaged or as outraged by some of the things. that are happening. JON STEWART: Right. ERIC LIPTON: And that's also part of the normalization. So if both the Republicans in Congress. and the American public is just going. to let this become normal, then it does become normal. JON STEWART: Well, some of that, I think, is because the competing vision that they're up against-- first. of all, it's amazing how crazy shit has. to get for even a couple of Republicans to go,

yeah, I might have to look into that. Like, it's bananas to me how far it goes. And it just shows how fearful they. are for their own political lives over that. And you've seen people excommunicated just. for speaking out against that. But the other side of it is the corruption of it. just gets embedded into it. And with no powerful alternative--. I mean, for God's sakes, on the Democratic side,

you've got Chuck Schumer going, I'm. going to send a strongly worded letter with eight. pretty hard questions. And you'll see. Now, maybe it's because we're in an unusual situation of they. control the Senate. They control the House. They control the executive. They mostly control the Supreme Court. Maybe if that shifts, some of this. begins to get adjudicated in a different way, do you think, Susan? SUSAN GLASSER: Yeah. I mean, the fear is that an election is a long time away,

first of all. Second of all, Democrats have a much. harder road ahead to actually win back control of the Senate. So that seems more unlikely. The House is much more in reach in the midterm elections. But it's not just about the partisan advantage, right? The system is being changed right now. in ways, some of which will be quite hard to undo. So that's first of all. Second of all, I do think that the drama of Republicans. was the story of the first term.

And Trump won that battle. That was a hostile takeover, as he. and his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, put it in the first term. And they succeeded in that hostile takeover. And now, you've, essentially, got Lisa Murkowski and a fully. Trumpified GOP Senate. So I'm not wasting a lot of energy or breath. thinking that Republicans are going. to do anything other than the most. mealy mouthed of statements. In fact, Mike Johnson, you referenced. him earlier, he also, I think, came out.

and said, oh, the plane--. never mind. Even though that emoluments clause in the Constitution. specifically says it would require congressional approval. for some kind of massive gift from a foreign government. JON STEWART: But don't you think. they would regain their oversight immediately. if a Democratic president was there? In other words, will this just be-- it's sort of in the way. they look at the debt ceiling. Like, if it's a Republican, oh, yeah, no, we're going to lift the debt ceiling, and everybody's going to do it. And then a Democrat comes into office, and say, aren't we going to be responsible here?

Let's do that. Is there a chance that we, once again, become a rules-based, responsible country as long as a Democrat's in charge of it--. that this is a Trump phenomenon, not a permanent change in autocratic rule? SUSAN GLASSER: Democrats and Republican presidents. have participated in the creeping imperial presidency. Right now, Republicans definitely. subscribe to much broader, more sweeping vision.

of executive authority. But most presidents want to have more authority not less. And the institutional shifts, like, not just in foreign policy, but broadly speaking, toward the presidency, are a long term. trend that have happened under Democrats and. Republicans alike. So I think you would see some reorientation were Democrats. to regain control of one or all of the branches of government. But I think that it's really hard to see a meaningful way.

where this is just going to be wiped away, given that one. of our two major political parties. has become completely all right with a series of things. that just don't check the box for basic democracy anymore. And that's the part that is a long term trend, especially. because we're in so much more of a politically. polarized system. It is basically a fully partisan system now. The idea of a non-partisan civil service, Trump. is blowing up.

The idea that there's institutional imperatives. for Congress rather than just partisan imperatives--. you know, that's all, I think, disappearing very quickly. JON STEWART: Do you see that, Eric, in any way. being a corrective once the cult of Trump is gone? ERIC LIPTON: No. I think that the partisanship has really undermined. accountability on both--. it makes it hard to have accountability when. all of these investigations, whether led by Democrats. or Republicans, that the other side is. immediately dismissing them as witch.

hunts that are politically driven. And Congress used to be made up of Democrats and Republicans, more so, at least. I mean, like, a Frank Wolf was a Republican. that I can remember or Tom Davis as a Republican--. I mean, these were the conservatives--. JON STEWART: Partisans, but not ideologues. ERIC LIPTON: They were value-based Republicans. Even Orrin Hatch was a value-based Republican. And Chuck Grassley is a value-based Republican, to some extent. And, you know, now it's just all investigations are.

so partisan, and even the way that the public reacts. to them is so dismissive, depending on which side you're. on, that it empowers the executive, the president, to just ignore them and to say, oh, this. is just political nonsense. And I think that that feeds into this pursuit. of greater executive power and ignorance of red lines. And I think it's unfortunate. And I think social media is also a factor in this, where.

the tribes are feeding each other through tunnels. of information that just backs up their favored politician. So I think all of this is becoming more normalized. in a way that is unfortunate and, potentially, long lasting. But we'll see how it plays out. And, first of all, we've got to get through the Trump years. And we're just going to continue--. JON STEWART: Which, by the way, may continue until--. we don't even know when it's going to end.

ERIC LIPTON: Right. JON STEWART: And, by the way, the more power that the family. amasses, the more-- look, dynastic families. in American politics are not abnormal. And the more power and influence that they amass, the more likely a dynastic influence. emerges through there. I don't think that's any question. I think this is going to be with us, depending,

for a very, very long time. And I will end with this--. the fear, for me, is always the stability. of these societies demands the consent of the governed. And if you don't have it, things like martial law. get declared, or they pull all kinds of emergency powers. and crack down on certain things, and it creates the volatile political cycles. that you see in countries that don't. have the fealty not to a man, but to a Constitution.

And that's my fear for the cycle that we're heading into. I'm looking 70 years down the line, not just five. Would you guys comment on that? ERIC LIPTON: I mean, rule of law, it's just-- the Republicans and the Democrats. love to use that term. But the rule of law is becoming less real and less. apparent in society today. And that's-- I mean, our country. has really been held up by that norm for centuries now.

And it's becoming less and less apparent. And that's really problematic. But, Susan, what are your thoughts? JON STEWART: Last word, Susan. You got this. Sum it up. Bring us home, Susan. SUSAN GLASSER: Rule of law-- you'll miss it when it's gone. [JON LAUGHING]. JON STEWART: That's the bumper sticker. you never see at the rest area on the Jersey Turnpike. Thank you both very much, man. Very enlightening conversation. Very much appreciated. Susan Glasser, staff writer at The New Yorker. and co-author of The Divider--. Trump in the White House 2017-2021.

And Eric Lipton, who is an investigative reporter. in the Washington bureau of the New York Times. Thank you both so much for enlightening us. during this time. ERIC LIPTON: Thank you. SUSAN GLASSER: Thank you. Great to be with you. [MUSIC PLAYING]. JON STEWART: Well, I didn't want it to end so dark. I didn't want it to--. WOMAN 1: Too bad. JON STEWART: To end with, we are entering an 80-year era. of darkness and despair, by which the rule.

of law shall be punished. WOMAN 2: You thought a conversation. about Trump's corruption would end on a glass half. full moment? JON STEWART: I don't know. I thought maybe they had some key to this. I kept trying to throw in there, like, what about when the Congress changes it-- hey, didn't we-- what about insider trading? They're like, you don't understand, motherfucker. WOMAN 2: How deep this goes. JON STEWART: You don't get that--. is that what you guys were thinking? WOMAN 2: I mean, I was kind of focusing on, you said it a few times, I think,

about how crazy it is that Trump is just, like, so. comfortable on this trip. And, of course, he is because he's making lots of money. But I just cannot imagine being in the same. room as MBS and doing what he did, which was fall asleep. JON STEWART: Hey, listen, man--. WOMAN 1: Nap time. Gotta keep one eye open. JON STEWART: Yeah, they're not-- listen, that's not where they're taking the chainsaw. That's for sure. And, listen, you guys know, when you fly east, much harder on the jet lag. You guys are--. WOMAN 1: Absolutely. JON STEWART: You guys have done it before.

So that can be very difficult. But they--. and, listen, I loved Susan's--. the scope of her knowledge, I thought, was really interesting. WOMAN 1: Absolutely. And I also-- I mean, I found the conversation just around. the use of the word "corruption". that you guys started with very interesting, because, yes, the Supreme Court changed what's considered to be bribery. and corruption in government. But the Supreme Court is corrupt.

Like, they accept millions of dollars in gifts. and have made it easy for themselves to do that. JON STEWART: That's a great point. That's a great point. WOMAN 1: So at what point do we stop using their definitions. and start using the definition that you're. just using your eyes and ears to accurately. describe a situation? JON STEWART: That's a fabulous point. And I also think anytime you get in on the idea. that corruption is purely defined in the legal arena, you'll lose sight of what real corruption is. It's just-- corruption, to me, is.

the erosion of those things that hold. something up with integrity. And the minute you erode that, whether it's. the legal definition of it or not, it is certainly corrupting of the tent post. that we kind of relied on. WOMAN 1: If you want a quo at this point, like, you're going to have to pay up. JON STEWART: Oh, we're getting the quids. But I don't know about--. WOMAN 1: $1 million to the inaugural fund. does not get you a quo. JON STEWART: Yeah. And also the idea-- like, so, Qatar, they're going to give him a $400 million jet just because.

Just because. WOMAN 2: They're just cool like that. Yeah. JON STEWART: Yeah. They're cool like that. WOMAN 1: How about Susan dropping bars on rule of law? I was like--. JON STEWART: Bars? WOMAN 1: Hey, Susan. JON STEWART: Yeah. And, by the way, gifts are corrupt. Like, why do you think grandparents. lavish grandkids-- like, that's not like, oh, I gave you a toy plane, because I am buying your love. WOMAN 1: I give my dog so many treats. JON STEWART: Right. All of this. WOMAN 1: This is how I became the favorite. WOMAN 2: Also the proving. I mean, I can't imagine trying to parse.

through all of the companies and all of the shady movements. to prove--. JON STEWART: You're not allowed access to the. communications now. The Supreme Court has made it so you don't have it. You can't have access to the communications. You can't prove anything. WOMAN 1: Yeah. JON STEWART: If the president is involved. WOMAN 1: And do you think, like, if he was just doing one. of these things, it would be easier to indict him on, like, both literally and in the court of public opinion? Because isn't that what, like, the Biden crime family was, was it was just one thing that everybody could focus on?

JON STEWART: Look at how long they had to--. like, how long it takes to investigate, like, even just Hunter Biden. The dude had, like, a laptop with images of him, like, naked holding a gun, and, like, that was. a three-year investigation. Like, imagine if you can't get access to anything, you just--. WOMAN 2: And it's crazy-- like, you just. had an hour long conversation. You didn't touch on the media. What about all of the money he's making there? Like, it really is endless. JON STEWART: Oh, yeah. Truth Social. No.

WOMAN 1: $40 million for a documentary. JON STEWART: Get them back on the line. I want to ask some more. Now I feel terrible. I've missed all these things. WOMAN 2: No, there's not enough time, I think. JON STEWART: Son of a bitch. WOMAN 1: A whole other episode. JON STEWART: What about the listeners? What do they want to know this week? WOMAN 1: All right, we got a couple for you this week. JON STEWART: What do we got? WOMAN 1: Nowadays, what's the point of playing by the rules? JON STEWART: I don't know anymore. Because the system requires--. [LAUGHTER]. Yeah. I don't fucking know.

It's a great-- like, I remember in the old days, like, if the president can get a blowjob. from an intern, what's keeping the Earth on its axis? Like, we're so far beyond--. I think that's really where you get down to, is he exploiting. the system that we've all been operating in. but with rose-colored glasses on. and didn't recognize, like, yeah, money talks,

bullshit walks. And that's kind of how it is. And this dude's just ripped the Band-Aid off. and said, look at yourselves. Like, he's forcing us to view how. this whole thing really works. Rules are for suckers, that's what I'm saying, kid. And what's the other one? WOMAN 1: If you could only choose one, would you advance or destroy AI? JON STEWART: Wait, I can only choose one? WOMAN 1: That's correct.

JON STEWART: No, but that's--. no. WOMAN 1: Keep in mind, the AI's listening. JON STEWART: Oh, these hypotheses. question-- it's like if ifs and buts are candy and nuts, every day would be Christmas. Like, no, it doesn't work that way. I refuse to answer your hypothetical on there. It's like saying, like, if we'd never. advanced physics, well, then, there wouldn't. have been an atomic bomb. Like, you just can't work that way. What I would choose to advance is. humanity's understanding of not having to do.

everything that they can do--. that you don't always have to be in the meeting and go, hey, should we reanimate the virus from 1919 that. wiped out all those people? And, like, somebody in the office should be like, I don't know about rean--. is there something else. Is there some way we could learn about it. without unleashing it again? Is that something we could do. No. Everything requires-- progress requires.

providence and caution. And so you have to advance it, because it's going to anyway. There's an inevitability to it. But you also have to advance our ability to understand. how to mitigate--. it's like we've all talked about global warming like this. all the time. I'm like, look, I don't care how. many COP conferences they do. I don't care how many times you tell people, what if you just got a smaller car? Like, that's not-- somehow, we're. going to have to figure out a way to mitigate carp. Like, somebody's going to have to clean this shit up.

if they're relying on humans to stop being humans. And I feel the same way about AI and everything else. This is the darkest episode we've done. WOMAN 2: And on that note--. [LAUGHTER]. JON STEWART: But it's like saying, like the wheel, would you go forward with it? And you're like, yes, but that means. that there will be trucks that have. missiles on the back of them. Like, yeah, it's yin and yang, baby.

Light and dark. We got to manage it. Got to manage the shadows. WOMAN 1: Speaking of bars. WOMAN 2: Hell yeah. WOMAN 1: All right. JON STEWART: How are the ways that they get a hold of us? WOMAN 1: Twitter, we are WeeklyShowPod. Instagram threads, TikTok, Blue Sky, we are WeeklyShowPodcast. And you can like, subscribe and comment on our YouTube channel, The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart. JON STEWART: Thank you, once again, guys. Fabulous. And thank you for the conversation after that. I thought that was very thoughtful of you guys. Lead producer Lauren Walker, producer Brittany Mehmedovic,

video editor and engineer Robert Tolo, audio editor. and engineer Nicole Boyce, researcher and associate. producer Gillian Speer, and our executive producers. Chris McShane, Caity Gray. Come on, people. Stand in the light. Oh, fuck. All right, we'll see you guys next time. Bye Bye. [MUSIC PLAYING]. The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart. is a Comedy Central podcast. It's produced by Paramount Audio and Busboy Productions.