A Bulwark Against Trump with Sarah Longwell | The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the. Weekly Show podcast. My name is John. Stewart. On this Wednesday morning, November 4th, you may hear in my voice a. slight rasp, a slight horseness, but. also an inflection of uh some would call. it enthusiasm, uh excitement. Uh I don't. know if uh you've been paying attention. There was an election uh last night, the. midterm elections, and I'm left with a.

feeling uh as I watch the results up. until I want to say 3:00 in the morning, something along those lines. Uh but it. fills me with it's a hard to describe. feeling one that it is a little bit. alien to me within these times. I. believe it's referred to as hope or that. might be its its ancient name. You know, the Egyptians referred to it as hope. Uh. what an exciting feeling of opportunity.

What an exciting uh repudiation of. cruelty and shittiness in our politics. The Democrats ran actual good candidates. who seem uh in it for virtuous and. non-political salesman reasons. Uh it. was it was an incredible night. It was I. was watching it the the I can only liken. it, you know, you're seeing they haven't.

had a Democratic senator in a hundred. years. This was like the Knicks. championship. This was Knicks in five. This was watching result after result. Each result was like OG Aninoi just. tipping in another one just up there. hanging in the air with old Wemby. representing the Republican Congress. Sorry to do that to you, WBY. OG's just tipping in South Carolina. BOOM. NO WAY. THERE'S NO WAY people. Every five minutes was another explosion.

of I can't believe they came back like. this. Uh, it's an incredible night. And now. all they have to do is govern. Govern sainely. Govern competently. This this victory means nothing if. squandered. But oh, the beauty of hope. and opportunity. raising its delicious head. Uh and and.

uh boy have I been waiting for a night. like this for a very long time. And I. hope you have as well. And I hope you're. feeling that same feeling of it's not it. it it it's an exhalation that creates. the space. for progress and I just am so excited. for it. Uh and and to that end, we got a. great guest to discuss all that. happened. So let's just get right to it.

Ladies and gentlemen, delighted. delighted to welcome today Sarah. Longwell, New York Times bestselling. author of How to Eat an Elephant: One. Voter at a Time, publisher of The Boore. and host of the Focus Group podcast. And. I'm going to let the people in on. something. This is uh backstage. knowledge. I hope I'm not in any way uh, you know, betraying any confidences. Sarah Longwell has not slept. How could I sleep? How could I sleep? We. just had the greatest night in America. in 10 years. And I wanted to be awake.

for all of it. I wanted to be on. Twitter. Uh I was filled with. adrenaline. Um I wanted to revel in the. some of the shodd and freud the the the. greatness of democracy. I am just uh and. I'm still running on it right now. >> Sarah, you just said a sentence that. I've not heard in in maybe ever in my. life, which is I wanted to be on. Twitter. >> Yeah. >> You you said out loud to me, I I wanted. to say I was feeling joyful. >> Yeah. So, I wanted to be on on Twitter. What was it like being on Twitter? Were.

you Conan the Barbarian? Were you Were. your enemies lamenting before you? What. What was the situation there? >> Yeah, I would say I'm like at a high. level of insufferability on Twitter. right now. Um, in large part because. listen, I I have been waiting for 10. years for a thorough repudiation of. Trump and his political project. and we. got it last night and I didn't want to. miss a second of it and so uh some of it. was to be to be fair was watching some.

of the people who had been saying that. the polling was wrong and Trump would. persevere once again. It was um it was. reveling in their tears just a bit, but. mostly mostly it was election nerd. Twitter watching the margins. Um because. that's the really satisfying part when. you see places like South Carolina and. Texas and Kansas. >> They the Democrats didn't win in those. places on a knife's edge. It wasn't a. whisper. It wasn't a a hair.

>> It was six points, seven points. It was. awesome. And um and and that's just. that's what I've been waiting for from. the American people. And it is. frustrating that it took this long. I. wish that it had happened sooner. I wish. that it happened because Donald Trump. tried to overturn an election, lied. about the election, all of his manifest. uh sort of venality. But what it ended. up being was that the American people. were hurting uh over the economy, over. the war, over Trump's uh lying, not.

caring about them. and they sent a. message and it was just it was something. I wanted to revel in. >> and as re and revel you should. You've. earned it. It it reminds me, you know, it I I feel like the the Democrats. should all be faded in the canyon of. heroes. Not the Democrats, but the. voters. The American voting public. should get a ticker tape parade today. for being really the one remaining. institution in this country that had the.

courage to repudiate the uh reality. distortion machine that has been the. Donald Trump project. The universities. fell before his feet. Law law firms fell. before his feet. And the American people. say, "Oh, let let me let me just give. you a quick little reality check here. This isn't the greatest economy in the. history of our country.". >> Yeah. Look, I know uh the way so many of. my colleagues feel. I've certainly felt. this. We like I said, we wish that this. had come sooner. We wish it came for.

other reasons, but this I I can't. overstate. Uh and I like to be careful. about overstating, but I can't. >> OVER THIS IS NOT THE DAY for that, Sarah. Longwell. This is the day to overstate. Put yourself out on a limb. >> Listen, we have made deep structural. change right now. Just think about the. Supreme Court. If the Democrats now have. a Federman proof majority in the Senate, >> Wow. >> Uh we are looking at somewhere. >> Yeah. We are going to be over 250 seats.

in the House, which is a governing. majority. We haven't seen. it's an earthquake in Texas. They didn't. just get the Senate seats. They got the. governor's races uh in so many of these. places. And do you know what that means? It means all of the things that we have. sat around being so scared of that. Donald Trump could just stay in office, that he could unleash ICE uh on the. streets, that um that we couldn't get. our democracy back. No, what we are. watching right now is our ability to. bring it back. One of the things that's.

crazy about last night is how many new. voters there were in the system in. Texas. the number of people who showed. up who were firsttime voters. Uh the. number of Gen Z uh and and and and young. millennials who showed up. Uh this this. is about building the future and the the. range of Democrats who won like the. ideological breadth of them, the deep. red places they run ran in, the trifecta. in Wisconsin, the way we're going to be. able to beat back um so many of the the.

the the gerrymandering And you know. what? They tried to gerrymander us out. of that majority and they didn't get. anything in Texas. They did a midcycle. redistricting and Texas voters send them. packing. They didn't pick up anything. from that. The people who've been helped. Donald Trump try to overturn the. election like Scott Perry in my home. district in central Pennsylvania. He got. beat. He got crushed by Janelle Stson. last night. Uh it's just I mean in in in. if you have hopes of us off in 2028, if.

you've been watching him thinking, my. god, what is this what is this man? And. you were like, "Oh my gosh, but he can't. run for president because he's in. Georgia and they can't give up that. Senate seat." Well, Kesha Lance Bottoms. is the first black woman to be governor. of Georgia. And if if he wants to run. now, she can appoint another Democrat to. that seat. I mean, it's just it's just. glorious. John, you can stop me. >> Sarah Sarah Longwell, I want to know. what your Starbucks order is. I want to. know. >> Sorry. >> I want to know what's keeping you on. this. >> I'll calm down. >> This Jeremiah, don't calm down at all. I.

am I am enjoying this. This is uh uh you. are reflecting the emotional sentiment. in if I were a younger man, I would have. the same pace and rhythm uh that you are. speaking in right now. Uh but I am. enjoying spectating on your joy and your. excitement. Uh and and it is grounded. and it is founded. Uh Sarah, these past. 10 years, I I always view Trump as like. a black hat hacker, and he was able to.

find the holes and vulnerabilities in a. constitutional system that we thought. was so brilliantly and meticulously. designed that nothing. And and it turned. out it was all built on a kind of uh. handshake agreement that we would all. kind of abide by uh the constitutional. uh precepts. and and and it was proven. to be false. But the one area that redeemed it all. was the the little the little part of it.

called the consent of the governed. That. was the thing last night that turned the. tide on all of the rejections of the. constitutional checks and balances that. have been built in this system that. Donald Trump had obliterated over these. years to turn this country into, and I. don't know how you feel about this, but. he he he attempted to make us a an. adjunct of the Trump Organization, just.

a group that was ruled by the whims of. someone who doesn't even have, you know, a shareholders board, doesn't have. anything controlling him, the Congress. And what a repudiation. of a liy livered Congress this was. And. I did say liy livered just to give you. the chance to understand that I'm in my. 60s. I was going to say I was going to. say petty fog, but I I pulled back at. the I I it was right at the tip of my. brain and I pulled it back at the last.

moment. But but speak about that because. you you know your life's work is out. there talking to. voters and this idea of we had forgotten. Washington exists in such a bubble that. sometimes we forget that in a. representative constitutional democracy. the consent of the governed is still. that most powerful final backs stop. You. know, when Trump won in 2016, I was so. shocked. I couldn't imagine a country.

that would put elevate Donald Trump to. the presidency. And I I had this idea. I. was like, well, we've got to primary. him. You know, and I I was a I was a. Republican kind of a normy centrist. Republican. I was like, we've got to we. got to go get our normie centrist. Republicans to primary him. And I was. talking to Adam Kinzinger and I was. talking to Larry Hogan and in Maryland. and I was saying, come on guys, one of. you have to run. and they were like, "Well, go figure out if that's even. possible." And so I went and did a bunch. of polling at focus groups. And as I was. sitting in the focus groups, it was like.

a revelation in a bad way because what. what I heard from voters was how much. they were fine with Trump. Like all the. reasons that they wanted him, all the. reasons they were against the. establishment, all the reasons they. wanted something new, that they saw him. as transcending politics. And it struck. me how disconnected I was sitting in. Washington DC doing think tank panels on. education reform and the national debt. and that policy that norm you know nor. centrists love to talk about and I was.

like man this is not how voters are. thinking about things at all and you. know Abraham Lincoln said and I open. with this quote public sentiment is. everything in a democracy that's just. what it is the voters and so like their. cheat code for politics and it was. amazing to me after I started just. listening and listening to more and more. voters. I mean, I got addicted. I was. like, I need more voters right now to. tell me what's going on. It became the. only way for me to understand politics. because too many pundits try to. understand it through their own. experience. But, of course, the pundits.

who are talking about politics right. now, they're not they're not unable to. buy beef at the grocery store. They're. they're not looking at the gas uh going. to the gas station being like, "Well, this is too expensive to fill up my nice. car.". >> But the average American is, and they. talk about it all the time. And so when. I talk to voters, I just feel like I get. a true picture of what is happening in. the country and what is a priority for. them. And it is often not so connected. to what we're talking about in. Washington DC. And so um I was just like. chasing the dragon from 2016 on. Um I've.

done nothing but listen to voters. I've. already done a focus group today. I've. done two today. In fact, >> wait. Sarah Longwell, you've buried the lead. >> You buried the lead of this entire, you. know, here we are talking about we're in. a celebratory mode. We're talking about. the game last night. We're going over. tape. We're going over the things. You're already studying. You're already. going for no the Super Bowl. That was. last night. I'm working on what's our. next game. What's next season? Uh. because this was more than, you know, I.

think maybe 2016 was that way as well. This was a visceral election. People. were feeling something deep in their. souls that did not sit with them. Right. And I think you're so right to say it's. not necessarily about parsing uh. educational policy or uh you know the. federalist system that people were. feeling a sense of unease. I think they. felt and and we'll talk about this maybe. right now when you go over your focus.

groups and I don't know if you discussed. this but I felt that the kind of. right-wing experiment spearheaded by. kind of Bannon using Eastern Europe as. our test kitchen where they would say. like what about Hungary I kind of like. their soft illiberal uh uh kind of. illiberal democracy soft authoritarian. that's a wonderful project that we can. graft onto America. That's something we. should be pursuing. And they pursued it. relentlessly and they've had a lot of.

success with it. But I think last night. America rejected the organ. They that. they viewed it as a foreign experiment. and the tea cells and whatever our. immune system has still left rejected. that graft. >> I think that's exactly right. But here's. it's not that it was a um what did you. I'm not sure what what kind of but it. was a failed. >> experiment. By the way, Sarah, I'm. talking a lot of So you're going. to say what did you just say and I'm.

going to go I don't remember. I'm. talking I'm talking a lot of right. now. >> I'm just going to use a slightly. different word which is the American. people know a failed experiment when. they see one. There was a lot of people. who gave Trump a chance who gave this. Republican they gave them a chance to do. what? Okay, let's make America great. again. Okay, what does America first. look like? Okay, if your economy is. good, I'll ignore some of the, you know, worst impulses of it. And then they. watched and they got the results. And. some, for some Americans, it was a stove.

touching exercise, right? They they had. to get burned. They had to feel the pain. before they understood why this was a. failure. And so that's what you are. seeing right now is this rejection, this. backlash. And this is what's Look, man, I I gotta tell you, this is why I wrote. the book. This is why I think we have a. generational opportunity. Yes. Yes. burn. maggot to the ground and salt the earth. with with its ashes and it starts with. this 2026 election which was always. necessary but not sufficient but has. moved us forward even further than I. thought it might by just the sheer scale. of it all because the the rejection of.

MAGA going forward the way that we don't. fall to that of liberalism the way that. we don't become hungry is with this. thorough repudiation and yes it's. probably again because of a lot of these. economic issues but when I was doing the. focus group this morning it was also. just a lot of people saying cuz I I did. a group with Republicans who voted for. Democrats in these swing states. >> Who is showing up to that? Who who like. the morning after an election? >> We pay $200 to uh. >> you're throwing down too large to go.

really couple of honeys. Okay, >> we'll go high. We'll go high for a. morning focus group in the in the. aftermath of an election. We we screened. them. We screened them um earlier. We. knew we knew what who who they were. going to vote for and um and we just got. them on to talk about why. It was, it's. funny, they're not going through what. I'm going through right now or what. you're going through. They're not. sitting around doing victory laps. They're just there being like, "Yeah, everything was really bad. They've. screwed it up. Trump made these choices. about the war. He made the choices about. tariffs, and I wanted to send a message.

that what they're doing sucks." I mean, several people described it as a. show. And and so you know and then also. on top of it one of the things that was. heartening to me is how much. >> a lot of times you get sort of lesser of. two evils framing right where they're. like gh I didn't want to vote for. either. Everyone was bad. This was a. little bit more like I thought James. Tarico ran a really nice campaign. Uh. you know I thought he was doing. something different. I liked the pitch. where they said they were going to try. to work with everybody where they were.

not going to be cruel and mean. like. they liked the tone of what Democrats. were saying uh in these places and that. gives me hope for the future that. Democrats can build on this by taking. some of the lessons that can be drawn. from this moment. >> I hate the news. I I hate what it's. doing to me emotionally. I I hate that. you don't really know where the. information is coming from. Sometimes. you don't know how it's being. manipulated and it it adds to the.

creeping fog of sadness that grows. But. I have to keep up. I have to understand. what's going on in the world. And that's. why ground news. I it's they've got a. website. It's an app. It it lets you. compare news coverage across the board. to understand how you're being zoomed. Do you know what I'm saying? You can see. how different news outlets will frame. the same story. They've got a blind spot. feed so you can challenge yourself about. your news consumption. You'll see who.

owns what news outlet to understand why. they're framing the stories the way they. are. This is the one you should uh get a. hold of. Enlighten yourself, please. To. get the same unlimited access to the. Vantage subscription, go to. groundnews.com/stewart. and subscribe to get 40% off. Discount. only available for a limited time. It's. groundnews.com/stewart. or scan the QR code on screen. By the way, to to your point, Sarah, this is and I reflect everything back to.

sports unfortunately, but you know, every now and again a draft class shows. up where it's just like these. quarterbacks that you can't believe like. what how did we get five Hall of Famers. in one class? I thought more than in any. year that I can recall, Democrats ran. generationally. competent, interesting candidates on a spectrum of. kind of uh political ideologies. some. feeling a little bit more on a.

progressive tip, a more socialist tip. And then, you know, the guys in Iowa. that are, you know, Turk and uh uh their. governor, >> Rob Sand, >> Rob Sand, uh who I thought was really. impressive. >> They ran uh a much more committed and. competent group of individual. You know, I've always said Donald Trump is going. to make America great again, just not in. the manner in which he thought. Because. I think the the immune system reaction.

to him will create, not to go Kennedy on. this but the torch being passed to. a new generation of leadership that is. showing itself. And I want to go back to. something that you said. You said, you. know, we've got to repudiate. MAGA. But I want to ask you if you think. it's it's broader than that because I. think MAGA was also a repudiation of. a feckless democratic leadership and a.

government that wasn't responding, you. know, to the needs of the populace in a. way that was agile enough. And we can't. go back to that. the the repudiation of. MAGA last night cannot be seen outside. the context of the repudiation of. whatever that and I'll frame it as the. neoliberal status quo democratic. governance of the past. It's It's why.

seeing Chuck Schumer out there last. night give his acceptance speech, I. don't know if you saw Sam Cedar, if you. know Sam Cedar on uh uh but he was. hilarious watching Chuck Schumer and. losing his mind as Chuck Schumer. went right into like what an amazing. night to we took a red brick wall and we. took the bricks and each brick we but. different bricks and you were just like,

I think that might be the wrong tempo. You know, not my tempo, Chuck. Let's go. But but what do you say to that? That. it's not just about the recklessness and. the fecklessness and the uh uh cruelty. of of MAGA. The Democrats have to. rebuild something new. >> Uh 100%. But I got to tell you right now. that argument seems to people are. fighting along these factional lines of. like should the Democratic party be more.

centrist? Should the Democratic party be. more progressive? >> I don't I don't mean it in that way. I. don't mean. >> No, I know. I I know. But this is sort. of like this this was in the system. It. was the big fight sort of going into. this. It was a fight about, you know, the Haley Stevens versus Abdul Alied. Like this this played out in a lot of. different races. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm not I'm not talking. about that. I'm not talking about. >> But I'm going to use it to to to I think. express your point. Yeah. which is to. say what voters were looking for in each. of these cases. And when I talk about a. broad ideological range, what I mean is. Adam Hamilton in Kansas ran neither a.

centrist nor a progressive campaign. Either way, he ran something he ran a. tremendously human campaign. Something. that transcends politics overall, right? >> Human. >> Yeah, it's above it. And and Terico did. too. I mean, I think, you know, Republicans were mocking Taler Rico's. faith, but Terrio ran a faith human. campaign. One where he said, "I see you. I know you're hurting. I'll be kind to. you. I'm going to love my neighbor.". Both of them ran these like love thy.

neighbor campaigns that aren't aren't. and when so when you say something new, some of it is just like getting rid of. our old paradigms where we feel like. locked into it's all the like pro-life. and pro-choice of it. I'll tell you. something about listening to voters that. you come to understand pretty quickly is. like voters aren't linear thinkers and. they're not segmenting people into these. things like it's a big stew of stuff. It's a we people are a weird salad. I. got I had one more voter be like. >> if that's not the name of your neck book. Sarah people are a weird salad. Come on.

>> That's got to be that's got to be the. follow-up book. >> It's like do you put croutons in it? Yeah, but I also put carrots in it but I. also put I don't know a meatball in it. Like this is how this is how voters are. Yes. And they'll say, you know, in one. breath, they'll be like, I I uh I'm I'm. pro-life, but I believe in a woman's. right to choose. Okay. Well, what does. that even mean? I'll tell you what it. means. It's somebody who says, well, I. have these personal values uh where I. wouldn't have an abortion, but I don't. want the law repealed, and that's too. extreme for me. It might be like, I want. a closed border, but I don't want them.

to drag off the Abua down the street or. the guy who's been living and working. here for 20 years. Like, it's not so. linear the way politics is. >> People contain multitudes. And so if. politicians could run as humans and talk. to people like humans, which is a lot of. what just happened, they could break out. of some of this internet squabble and be. like, we're going to be super focused. on. And this is why it is a fight for. the soul. When you the Trump sort of. dark night of the soul stuff, the. American carnage, Trump wanted us to. hate each other. He wanted to divide us.

He used fear and anger all day long to. pull us apart. And this can be us coming. back together not just to build. political coalitions but to rebuild. America in the spirit with which it was. originally intended which is a. pluralistic society in which we all get. a say and like we learn to live together. and all our differences. >> Sarah that but that's no fa plea because. you know one of the kind of seinal. arguments that's being made on the right. right now is that we are not that you.

know when you have JD Vance. >> well they're wrong Sorry, >> I I agree. I've I've read the thing a. couple of times, the Constitution, it's. it seems to. >> great stuff. >> be somewhat creedle. Uh but but when you. have someone out there who is who is. saying as part of his platform, there. are heritage Americans who this country. belongs more to uh than others and it is. not based on how they view the. constitution. It is not based to their. feelalty to uh a rule of law or to uh.

whatever you know documents that we had. that were part of our founding. It is. literally based on how long have you. been here and did you come from a. generally white Christian European. country. That's this that's his kind of. pitch, >> right? And it's also a fundamental. misunderstanding of who we are as a. country. In fact, it's not it's just. like completely wrong. But it was the it. was the seed of look, Donald Trump, for.

whatever we think about his policies, one of his one of the the nuclear power. packs in his rise was nivism. Most. certainly. >> 100%. Uh here's the thing. If if you. think about American voters though on a. spectrum, there are the people who. responded to the nivism and then there's. the people who responded to I think we. should have a border that's closed so we. know who's in the country. Uh and like. then everything in between on that.

spectrum. Like the nivism and the racism. is real, but also a big chunk of those. voters are people who were like when he. said he was going to build a wall, what. they what they heard was just somebody. who's going to take immigration. seriously and a bunch of politicians who. haven't been. Right. This is sort of. Manny in New York where people heard him. talk about his explicit policies of free. buses, whatever, and they're kind of. like, I don't really care about the. explicit policy. I just know this guy is. laser focused on affordability and so. like I'm going there. And so I think. that is um what I try to do what part of.

listening to voters is that I see the. worst stuff. And then I also see the. opportunity for persuasion for people. who are not being awful but have. reasonable views on things like. fairness. They'll talk about like well I. know people who came here you know and. they were waiting in line for this. length of time and these other people. just came over the border and like. that's not somebody being crazy. And so. to me, I always I always feel like you. can build the biggest, broadest. coalition by taking some of those.

rational people who are voting for a bad. thing for not irrational, horrible. reasons and like try to get them into. your coalition. How do you do. persuasion? >> Will people share with you the worst. stuff? Will when you're in a focus. group, have people become uh immune to. masking that? Like will they share it? is Trump's coalition. Now, have all. those people you're talking about, are. they the ones that dissipated? And the. core of it really is that nivist.

kind of more cruel that share with you. the worst stuff. >> Yeah. I mean, so one of the things we do. in focus groups as a I'll call it a. method methodology of qualitative is to. make sure that the groups are actually. homogeneous. So, we don't have a group. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. So, at the beginning of every. group, we'll say, uh, this is a. like-minded group. You all voted for. Donald Trump in 2024, and you know, you. think he's doing a bad job now. Because.

the number one way to get people to tell. you the truth is for them to not feel. like the people around them are going to. judge or fight them. And so the way that. you and and people do things. differently, different qualitative. people, but my experience has shown me. that the way to get the truth out of. people is to put them with people that. they know agree with them. >> to feel safe. >> Yeah. To feel safe and just tell the. truth to each other and for the. moderator to always be on their side so. that they feel comfortable saying. things. Now look, in a group of. strangers, do people always, you know,

say the most racist thing that they. think or the most sexist thing that they. think? No. But I've heard plenty of it. >> Wait, so the moderator what does the. moderator have to be in there being. like, "Yeah, Mexicans." I mean, come on. Those are like Do they How do they How. do they do that? >> Uh, Masley, so I I've moderated a bunch. of these. And I don't know if you can. tell from my hand movements, but I'm a. lesbian. And um and so, you know, you'll. be you'll be uh you'll be in a group and. you'll just listen to some old guy like, and there's all these gays, you know,

and like the gay basketball players, you. know, whatever. and they just want to. trans everybody and groom everybody and. you just sit there being like, "Uh-huh. Okay." Um, you know, it's not that you. say, "I agree with you. We should nuke. the NWNBA and all the lesbians there.". It's just that, you know, you you say, "Ah, yes, that's a you just treat it. like it's all a valid perspective.". >> For those of you who are watching at. home, I I want to reiterate or not. watching at home, but listening. Uh, there her hand movements do not give. away any kind of lesbianism. I just want.

to make that very clear. >> Wrists. It seemed it seemed vaguely. ethnic to me. There was a little bit of. movement but nothing in the uh it it's. and. >> that part of it understanding that what. you're saying I think resonates but I. think you're a very good person to do. that and I want you to talk a little bit. about your story and I want to bring it. back to earlier on you were saying we we. finally did it. We turned this over. For.

those who don't know Sarah Longwell's. story, you know, you started out as a. relatively conservative Republican, I guess, closeted at some level with the. the people working for, you know, real. culture warriors and what does it feel. like for you, your journey through that to be I mean, you're a fullon like I'm like watching. somebody in a Knicks jersey sitting next. to Spike Lee like high-fiving like I've.

always been a Knicks fan. Like what. where's your head at? How does that feel. for you? >> Okay, I'm very excited for this part of. the show cuz I'm going to live out a. dream of mine in the next couple of. minutes. So, everybody buckle up. Everybody just hold on. You especially, Mr. Stewart. >> What are the hand movements? What hand. movements are we about to see? >> I got I'm gripping the mic hard because. I I needed to stabilize myself cuz I'm. about to have a dream moment. All right, here we go. >> So, I did I grew up in a very small town. in central Pennsylvania. uh very. culturally conservative, all white. Um.

and uh I didn't come out until I was, you know, in my in my 20s. I was kind of. I became a John McCain fan in college. Uh but my uh specific journey I I. wouldn't I wouldn't consider myself. super conservative. I just I I was. thinking of myself as kind of a a normie. Republican squish. But. >> but it was in reaction to, you know, the. way you describe it that Bill Clinton's. kind of moral turbitude is is what drove. you. You felt he was not a.

>> Oh, yeah. You want to go that deep on my. past? Yeah. I That's okay. >> No, that's fine. That's totally fine. Um. because I write about all this in the. book. >> It was a reaction to something that you. saw as corrupt. >> Yeah. So I, you know, sometimes. politics, it hits you when on at at. different ages, right? And so I'm 18. when Bill Clinton is impeached for. sleeping with Monica Lewinsky, uh, who. is not much older than I am at the time. And so that impeachment was really. formative for me. And the discourse. around it was really formative. So. watching feminists and sort of Democrats.

rally behind him after he had lied to. the American people when he said, "I did. not have sexual relations with that. woman." You know, I'm young and. idealistic and I think, well, that's. really gross. And the I like that's a. gross thing to do. It's a bad thing to. do. And so the people who defended him. were sort of discredited to me at that. early age, right? I saw that. But the. this on the on the inverse though, and. this was a little bit of a problem, is. that I ultimately gave too much credit. to his critics, right? Because my first.

exposure to them was on something I. thought they were right about. Uh but. you know, uh I I but I was too young and. the internet wasn't uh quite a thing. yet. >> You didn't know you didn't know. Gingrich's backstory. >> I didn't know Gingrich's backtory. I. didn't know Rush Limba's back. I didn't. know they were all married a thousand. times. Uh, and I also didn't know I was. gay. Um, and so I went to work uh after. college at a very conservative think. tank. Also, again, by accident, and this. is a true story, I got stoned uh because.

there there was this like place that. that funded student newspapers. And I. didn't do anything really political in. college. I played sports. I played. softball and field hockey. Again, lesbian. Um, but I but I I did it. I. wrote like a couple of things for the. conservative magazine at the time. So. they invited me to this dinner at the. fanciest restaurant on campus. And so I. got high and went and was like, I'm. gonna eat a great dinner. Uh free dinner. for me. And then uh the guy who was. taking us out was like I started telling. him about my thesis or something. He was. like, okay, you should come work at this.

place. I just said yes. I didn't have a. job. I didn't know what I was going to. do. I ended up at a pretty conservative. think tank and I ended up working for. Christine O'Donnell. >> Do you remember that name? Christine. O'Donnell. Yes, you do. because she was. not a witch. >> REMEMBER HER? >> OH YES. >> YEAH. >> She ran Where was that? Delaware. >> In Delaware. I That's where I was. I. moved to Delaware. >> That's where it was. Christina O'Donnell. ran in Delaware and it was she had the. commercial I am not a witch. >> That was her closing argument. Yes.

>> Oh, son of a gun. >> And she was the she was so so this was. before all of that happened. But I I. ended up at this pretty conservative. think tank that that funded it had like. this separate thing that funded. conservative campus and libertarian. newspapers. And so um but she ran the. communications for the whole thing. >> And this was in the on the the kind of. the Sarah Palin wave where they were. looking for uh those like tough women. that had that conservative I I remember. >> it was the Tea Party wave. It was the. Tea Party wave. That's what it was. That's right. That's right. So, so.

before she was the Christina O'Donnell. who lost to Senator Chris Coons, still. Senator Chris, >> uh, she was she worked at the same place. that I did and when she left, I got her. job and I was quite young. I was about. 25 and the it had a publishing imprint. So, it published uh mostly published. like the Constitution and Aristotle, whatever. >> Was it Regent or Regency? One of those. you know those. >> Yeah, it's like something like Regry. Regary. That's what it was. Um and so. but but it was well ISI books but regary.

it's like a similar thing. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So they were publishing Rick Santorum's. book and so as a 25-year-old who was. just starting to come out. I end up on. Rick Santorum's book tour. Okay. And I. have to run sort of the the part uh for. the publishing company. Now I was the. lowest person on the totem pole. I was. the youngest person there. I was not. important. But it was a terrifying uh. stretch for me. And I just want to read. you if you'll indulge me. >> I remember that book. >> One part of my book. I So it takes a.

family. Well, right. Cuz he came on your. show. >> Uh and I was with him. You don't. remember me, but you and I have met. before because we met in the green room. of your show when you were interviewing. Rick Santorum. And if you don't mind, I. just like to read you this part of the. book. >> Yes. >> During the book tour, I traveled with. him several times. Him being Santorum. He had a lot of kids and sometimes the. older ones would join him on the road. I. remember taking the train with him and. his two oldest kids to New York at one. point to do the Daily Show with John. Stewart. Santorm was a devoted dad and.

an easy hang cuz he was. I got to meet. John Stewart in the green room and it. was like a dream. I remember that when. he walked in and saw me and Santorm's. kids, he said to the senator, "Wow, you. have a bigger entourage than Snoop. Dogg." But the trip. >> I I still use that joke, by the way, every now and uh but that trip was also. when things began to shift. As nice as. Santorm was to me, I found myself. internally cheering against him as I. stood off stage while Steuart took his. anti-gay marriage argument apart brick. by brick. Other interviewers hadn't.

managed that kind of devastating push. back and watching it happen live jolted. something in me. I'd been surrounded by. people who agreed with Santorm for the. last few years and Santorm himself was. deeply competent at defending his. worldview. Gay marriage was far from. becoming a reality. I still wasn't out. to my parents and it just hadn't. occurred to me yet how to advocate for. such a thing. But standing in the wings. of the studio watching John Stewart. forcefully and nimly argue in favor of. gay marriage, I realized I could do that. too. So this is the moment when I get to.

tell you. >> that you changed the trajectory of my. life with that interview with Santorum. And after that I went and I became I. joined Young Conservatives for the. Freedom to Marry Logan Republicans. Anything I could do to repeal don't ask. don't tell, fight for gay marriage. uh. as a Republican and then so when you ask. me what does it feel like now that was. that's the question where you started. this it feels like being an American. because I don't have to play politics. like a team sport between Democrats and. Republicans I can still play it as. somebody who loves the country who feels.

like it's a gave her an enormous gift um. and who wants to see it thrive and. succeed and that means a thorough. repudiation to Trump that's what I got. but I have always wanted to thank you. >> for giving me that uh moment Uh, you. don't have to thank me because I. remember that interviewing that. interview being so pleasurable to be. able to do that to Rick Santorum in. front of him. >> That pleasure is how I feel today. So. that's how it feels. That's how the. journey feels.

>> So how you doing? Let me let me ask you. a question. I know you've been listening. to the podcast and know hopefully you're. engaged. Hopefully it's something. interesting. But let me ask you a. question. I didn't want to bring this up. and I certainly don't want to pry uh but. uh how's how's your power bank? How you. doing with your chargers? What do you. got going? What do you got? Got them in. a drawer somewhere down the basement. You're always looking around for one. Well, that's why I'm excited to to tell. you people. Uh, if you're looking for a. power bank, Ridge Power Bank, that's. where it's at. And with the holidays. coming and you're always thinking to. yourself, what should I get people? You. know what's the greatest thing you can.

get people? Power bank. Power bank's got. MagSafe wireless charging, Apple Watch. charger, lightning, USBC. Any way that. you want to charge, it's got it. For a. limited time, Ridge is having their. biggest sale of the year. Head to. ridge.com/tws. to get up to 49% off. That's. ridge.comtws for up to 49% off. Plus, qualifying orders can score holiday. extras like gift bags and classic cuff. beanies while supplies last. After you. purchase, they will ask you where you. heard about them. Support our show and. tell them our show sent you.

It's what makes you, I think, such an. interesting kind of Rosetta Stone to. this because your journey reflects the. complexity of what we're all feeling. because what social media, what what the. general uh tenor of our media, what it's. funneling us all into is purity camps. >> Yes. I mean, I don't know if you're. watching the MAGA kind of media.

infrastructure machine that's been. holding up that reality distortion. field. I don't know if you're watching. them today just utterly dissolve like. they have no idea what to do. with themselves. >> I mean, watching Laura Loomer say like, "There is no God. You're in a dark night. of the soul and we're all about to speak. Arabic." I'm like, >> "Yeah, this sounds right. You guys are. you guys are s having a real normal one. here, >> right?" And they're not. Let's even go. beyond the Laura Loomers. Let's talk. about Brett Bear on television on Fox.

News in the middle of this is their gold. standard. We hired a kron kite so that. you can be sure that we are not a in any. way the political propaganda. organization that Roger Als designed us. to be in the middle of it going okay. So. how do we spin this? asking it to the. ether, the Fox News complex, the brain. Can Can anyone just in my ear real quick. give me something that spins this.

thing? Oh, I'm sorry. We're on. the air. >> Yeah, >> that's how deep this is. It is. architecture. They have designed the. blueprints of a reality distortion. machine. and this burst that. >> it did. And this is this is why you. needed this repudiation is because the. the MAGA media infotainment ecosystem is. part of something I call the Republican. triangle of doom, which is the toxic and. symbiotic relationship between the. right-wing infotainment media, the.

Republican elected officials and the. Republican voters where they like. mutually reinforce each other with their. nonsense, right? And so a lot of people. last night are genuinely people if you. watch Fox News and Benny Johnson and. Tucker whatever you are shocked by what. happened because all of the people from. that ecosystem they're not there to tell. you the truth right like you live in a. world where you're like wait a minute. how did this just happen? Did they steal. it? Wait, it's so big and even Donald. Trump's not saying it was stolen cuz. it's just too big and massive. Like it.

punctures their reality. They they have. they have constructed a reality that now. >> when it breaks down Yeah. they don't. know what to do. Like you're watching. Brett Bear short circuit cuz they're. like we've built this distortion field. for people to live in. >> and now they can't live there anymore. >> And also there's an economic incentive. in a lot of that grifting mechanism is. you know these are folks that have just. been elevated to really great wealth by. participating in what is ironically a. kind of a welfare system where they're.

paid by right-wing bill. you know, they. are basically just on the dole to push. this nonsense out to people. >> Yeah. There's been a a real uh Trump. economy, and it's not the one you and I. and all the rural voters and all the. people live in. The Trump economy is uh. the people who sell MAGA lies to voters, right? Um and it's a it's a whole host. of podcasters. It's your Megan Kelly's. uh and your Yeah. Benny Johnson's and. all of these sick folks and and I I do.

think they're sick. They they are cruel. They have reveled in the cruelty. They. have pumped up the cruelty. That's the. thing that's so insane is the when I w. look. full disclosure. Never been a huge fan. of Megan Kelly. Not going to. But when. she was on Fox, there was that patina of. like it's like in the old wrestling. thing like she was the face. The network. was a heel, but she was a face. She was. the good guy. Then she tried to live out. in the normie world and like they they.

were all just like me I don't think you. know outside of that fox ecosystem not. that interesting not that special. >> They were like wait why can't Santa be. black ever couldn't Santa may maybe he. could be. >> right and didn't really care and so she. she kind of falls apart there but that. humiliation drives her to and I don't. know if it's a reinvention or just. getting in touch with like maybe she is. now she's living her truth right now but. it's such a cruel truth. I don't know if. you saw the she said something about the. poor woman from Cornell.

>> her body. She body shamed her. She was. like, "Oh, she wanted that attention cuz. she's not she had fat arms or. something.". >> Thick arms, right? You're like, >> "No, it was so disgusting. >> What kind of like what kind of. human are you?" Like what what. are we doing here? >> This this and when people talk about. like, well, what is Trumpism? cuz. sometimes I use the phrase Trumpism and. to me it is like. >> the way that people's souls have been. corroded by this moment where they've. sort of lo because vice signaling is a.

is a mode of communication now in. right-wing circles like when you hear. one of these news stories comes out. right where there's a bunch of young. Republicans and by young I mean like in. their 30s and early 40s on some chat and. they're all just making jokes about uh. you know using the n-word or talking. about putting in people in oven. >> fresh off their Nazi curious years. >> That's right. That's right. And that's. and so they vice signal like the way. that they accuse libs of of of virtue. signaling. They they vice uh signal and. and that over time, right, there's like.

you do it for a while with an ironic. distance. Like, oh, this is just. commentary on woke libs, but over time. that ironic distance shrinks and before. you know it, you wake up and you're a. terrible person. And that is what has. happened because you've defended too. many indefensible things and it's who. you are. >> Now it's your soul. But it's so. interesting. Did you see when so you're. in these focus groups and these are just. regular people? Do you feel the. downstream effects of that economy. in those moments when you're sitting in.

that group? Could you just as well be. sitting in uh with the Twitter feed from. a Benny Johnson? Like are they have they. bought the product? Is it Scientology? Are they regurgitating or are they. processing it through their own. experiences and everything else? >> Yeah, it's mostly the latter. It's. mostly through their own experiences. with with it with a bit of like a um a. covering of the vibes of like they all.

swim in kind of a MAGA soup like the the. Trump voters, right? A lot of it is we. are geographically sorted in many ways, right? And so uh and and and polariz and. so people who who live in these really. red areas, right, it they find it. mutually reinforcing with each other. Um. but mostly when I listen to voters, we. were joking about Twitter earlier. One. of the reasons that I can kind of like. throw down on Twitter uh and fight with. people from the far left and people from. the MAGA right and whatever is that I I.

know it's not real life because. listening to voters. >> voters. everybody is at their worst on places. like Twitter. they are anonymized the. the it is flattened like are you talking. to somebody from Nairobi are you talking. to an 18year-old from you know you don't. know and. >> and the algorithm incentivizes that that. conflict and that hatred. >> and they and they silo us and they are. meant it is meant to it is a they put an. algorithmic uh like gasoline on fear and.

anger right they take our fear and anger. and they say that's why we're going to. keep them on this platform but out in. the world they might swim in this soup. or whatever, but like they don't walk. around their neighborhood, you know, screaming slurs at people and. >> they can take the cape off. They can put. it on and take it off. Although there's. always two houses in the neighborhood. that do like there's a house in my. neighborhood that's got like Joe. Biden still up on like a gi like you.

know how when you go by a high school. and they have the giant sign that's lit. up that's like welcome back students. He's got one of those handmade on his. lawn that just says like, you know, let's go Brandon still like Trump was. like there's always. >> so many friends. >> But that's what I'm saying. There's. always a couple of houses where you go, oh, he doesn't he's now lost to that. dimension. He's not living in the world. >> But that's because for those people, it. has become their personality to be that. person, right? Like they've taken it on.

>> Do you see them in groups? Are they. there? I guess this is what I mean about. the groups is like you see the people. that you're like I see you. You're. Twitter pilled. Like you're a Twitter. person and you can recognize it, >> but it's not most of the people. Most of. the people are like, well, I had to drop. my kids off and here's how I'm thinking. about their local school and like I walk. into the grocery store and this is what. everything cost and like this is the. trade-off I had to make between driving. to this place or being able to do this. other thing because gas prices are so. expensive. Like that's how most people.

talk. And most people talk about what. they do for their families. They they. still volunteer. This is the thing. I. get actually filled up more by the. groups. People are often say to me like, "How can you listen to all these dumb. voters or whatever?" And I'm like, "No, Twitter is where all the terrible people. are in the groups." Mostly people are. pretty normal. And you hear people say. terrible things sometimes, but mostly. you don't. Mostly what I hear is people. struggling to be decent and live decent.

lives. Um, and I just I won't lose faith. in Americans. Um, because, you know, after we've exhausted all the wrong. choices, we'll do the right thing. And. that's what happened last night. We. exhausted all the bad things and here we. are. >> And that's why the feeling of last night. was so emotional for me because it was a. feeling of. hope and opportunity in a new path. It. wasn't I didn't at any moment feel like.

we did it. It's over. What I felt like. was oh, we got a chance. >> We just got ourselves a chance to do. that. Sarah, when you're in with those. groups, is there. >> is there a moment where you feel you. break through that patina, that Twitter. patina? Is it do you have to design it. to kind of get past the superficial. like everybody's got their shoulders up.

and they're kind of thing and what can. you feel a room relax and start to. reveal their true selves? >> Yeah. So, there's always a couple. moments. The first the first thing that. happens is when you tell them it's a. like-minded group, you do feel everyone. relax there. They Okay. So, they. understand they're going to talk about. politics, but they understand that. everybody that they're not going to be. in a a bar fight for it. Okay. So that's. the first time they're relaxed. And then. as they settle into the conversation, the opening question that we ask every. single time is how do you think things. are going in the country? And it's the.

most revealing question of the entire. two hours because what people bring up. organically. is the things that are top of mind that. are vexing them. And they form. connections through those conversations. you watch them connect with each other. because they are all saying, so let's. say we'll do a group of Trump voters who. now think he's doing a very bad job. So. they're all kind of feeding off of each. other's like, is it the war? Is it gas. prices? Is it grocery prices? They're. telling stories to each other. And so.

watching them connect with each other's. stories is honestly the way you get the. best read. And then the other thing, one. reason I like qualitative, so you we all. sit through polls. We all have PTSD from. the polls. We look at the polls. They. drive a lot of the political. conversation. >> What's interesting that'll tell you the. what. >> and I'm interested in the why. And the. stories that they tell each other are. the why. And the connections that they. make in the group kind of mimic real. world connections, right? You see them. through what they're saying to each.

other. You figure like that's kind of. what they're talking to their friends. about. They tell you stories about you. know um when the the vivic ramwami ad. against the actton dropped we. immediately convened a group of Ohio. voters um who were uh Trump voters but. were disaffected Trump voters and there. was a guy who was like my brother who. doesn't even follow politics and I don't. really call he called me and said have. you heard about the ad and to me I was. like that when you have people picking. up the phone to call their family. members because they're so disgusted.

about something it reveals something. that that's moving people. It's broken. through with people. And so, you know, for me, like democracy is the practice. of collective action in the country. Like our voting like democracy is just a. bunch of people in this country getting. together and saying a thing, >> making their wishes known. >> Yeah. But and and also sort of being in. community with each other, right? They're influenced by the people that. they're around. And so I feel like what. I really get out of the groups is.

watching. people interacting with each other and. telling their stories. Um, and that that. feels authentic. And then the other. thing is sort of the energy. So one of. the things I was saying going into this. election and I was like there's an. enormous enthusiasm gap. You sit in. Republican groups right now and they are. depressed and they don't like their. candidates and they think Trump's doing. a bad job. You get in Democratic groups. and they're like somebody let me vote. Somebody let me out of here. I'm going. to go I'm going to go vote so hard. Can. I do it now? >> Yeah. Uh and I was like, okay, well, that says a lot to me and you can feel.

it in the body language. And so it's a. lot of that watching that, >> you know, uh if there's one thing that. hearkens. the beginning of the Christmas season, it's the commercials that they begin to. run really, I think, right after uh. Halloween. And the one commercial you. might not see is the one commercial that. you're really going to need this holiday. season. And that's for Quint. Was that a. tortured segue? Man, this place, if.

you're looking for gifts, it's Quint, baby. Be generous. Stop thinking of. yourself for once. That's right. You. heard me. Buy some gifts for other. people. Quinc is this company. They. focus on high quality staples for. wardrobe. It's a wardrobe thing. You get. clothes and things like that. Get. premium materials, 100% Mongolian. cashmere. Come on, man. Think about. other people. Quint has everything you. can need for uh the upcoming season. Jewelry, leather bags, hotel quality. bedding, chef grade cookware. Give the.

gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quint app for app exclusive. offers. Or go to quint.com. Get free. shipping on your order and 365day. returns. Now available in Canada and the. UK, too. And when Quint asks where you. heard about them, let them know it was. the weekly show. Best way to support the. show. Do you see your journey reflected in the. the the voting groups that you're. talking to and is that a way that you.

can relate to them? And then the second. part of that and I guess we'll get into. this is like so where does this journey. then go for you? >> Oh, okay. That's a deep question. >> Yeah. Well, because it's such an. interesting transformation. You know, we're all aware of like never Trumper. and the never Trumpers and we're all. going to be never Trumpers. But then you. think to yourself like, well, is this a. diaspora? Is it a Republicans of your. because it doesn't feel that way. It. feels like something new. What you're.

advocating for doesn't feel like a. return to what we imagine is the. Republican. You know, there's a. nostalgia for the Republican of old, but. that doesn't sound like what you're. talking about. >> No, actually, I'm really glad you asked. this because I do think this isn't just. about me. This is I do think that there. have been a lot of Republicans who have. thought that Trump is the aberration and. that there's a going back. I even think. Democrats think this sometimes, like,

oh, well, the Republican party could get. back to a a Mitt Romney, John McCain. Republican party. It is never going. back. And I know this not for myself, and this is where I see myself. The. voters. know it's not going back. They don't. want it to go back. And this is where I. really divert from them, is when I. listen to Republican voters, I don't see. myself in them at all. Um, not that I. think all of them are bad people, but. the political project that they are. interested in, the candidates that they. are interested in, like the people who.

who really wanted Trump, they want. something that the their values are just. different than mine. And so I don't look. at the Republican party right now. There's nothing in it that connects for. me. Like it when and you say like, oh, there's been this big evolution. I know that this sometimes is hard for. Democrats, but I I I'll just tell you. from my own perspective. Somebody like. John McCain who was like in a camp and. wouldn't leave without his guys and like. was a war hero and talked all the time.

about what a great country America was, like I'm invested in that. I'm invested. in America being a great country and. like I could I could connect to that. There's nothing in this cruel, performative, um, anti-pluralistic, anti-ruule of law, entirely corrupt, like nothing about. that reflects my values or what I. thought the Republican party and and so. the Republican party could get less sick. than it is now. But its trajectory, even. with this thorough repudiation, it's. going to take a long time for it to find.

its new level. But that level is not the. Mitt Romney, John McCain, because. there's Republican party because that's. not what Republican base voters want. They want something that is they're. going to be in a real America first has. never been tried uh moment for a while. And again, that's not me. And so I think. about everything now from again going up. here instead of the partisan back and. forth is to think what is the best thing. for America. And I knew that the best. thing for America was going to be and.

this is once I started trying to fight. Trump, it became clear to me pretty. quickly that there's two political. parties. People can wish that there were. more, but there's two. >> And that's how the government functions. >> That's right. One of them was going to. be the home base for the pro-democracy. movement. And even if a lot of Democrats. so sometimes I do get in fights with. people on the the far far left and part. of that is that our political projects. sometimes are are a little different. like theirs is one of um. I don't know they have a lot of like. progressive policy things they want or. whatever and that's fine.

>> It's very factionalized anyway. It's. it's and you'll always and and again. we're incentivized for uh that type of. fighting. It's all villagers and. pitchforks and torches wandering the. countryside. >> Right. And that's why to me the. candidates that are so exciting are the. ones that transcended it because I think. people are looking for somebody to. transcend the partisan divide. And I. think that I see myself in a lot of. swing voters where I'll say, you know, I am pro-choice, but also.

don't think that, you know, I think uh, you know, we don't want it to be all the. time everywhere. You know, I'm like, it. makes me it makes me, you know, or I. think that we should use American uh. military power incredibly. uh judiciously. Um I am somebody who is. always quite um pro-Israel who in this. moment thinks that America at least. needs to re-evaluate our relationship. with Israel. The American people want. that. >> You don't like to deal in absolutes. You. like to.

>> I don't and neither do American people, right? >> Well, that's what you're learning, I. think, from from seeing them. Sarah, what what to to this new project, right? To this opportunity that we that we find. ourselves in and it is an opportunity. It how would you like your work to be. utilized to that new project and and. what are the aspects of it that you. think are are useful to be utilized in. that project? What for you? What is the.

purpose now? Where do you want that understanding? Because so much of of your project is. understanding the mindset of people that. may think a little like you, not like. you at all. How are these people. operating? So much of that work is. commoditized for the boilerplate of the. consultant, the political media. consultant machine. >> Yeah. >> But it doesn't sound like you're. invested in that project of it. So what.

and and can you speak to that project of. it or what you would like this to be? I. know that's a lot, but. >> No, no, no. But but the reason I wrote. the book is that I what I want is for. people to listen to Americans. I want. them to understand what Americans are. asking for. And then okay, so there's. there's two ways to think about the a. politician's relationship with voters. They can either be led or they can lead. And to me, there is a kind of alchemy. where it is not one or the other. where. it is you listen to voters but you also.

demonstrate leadership right so one of. the things I talk about in the book. there's this old parable it's like a. Native American parable grandfather. talking to a grandson saying grandson. inside each of us there are two wolves. uh one representing greed and avarice. and falsehoods and all the bad things. and one representing truth and light and. decency and compassion and they are. constantly at war with each other and. the grandson says grandpa which one wins. and he says the one that you feed And I. want to feed.

>> what is good in us. Americans have light. and dark in inside of us. We are not all. good or bad. America itself is not all. good or bad, right? It is complicated. But leadership, what I wanted is for. people to take this book. I want John. Oaf to read it. I gave it I handed it to. Pete Buddha Judge and he Pete Buddha. Judge is like it's on my nightstand. I'm. reading it and I'm just like I want. Democrats to read and I want to be like. listen to these voters. Stop demanding. stop like and pundits too. Everybody's. like, "Well, here's my personal opinion. about how I think the the country should. go." And I'm like, "Okay, but also let's.

listen to what these voters want because. they want to be safe and they want their. material well-being to be considered and. for people to think about humans and and. and leadership in a way that's like, I. want to bring out the best in people. I. want to bring out the best in the. country. I want to take what our country. was built on and draw out its best. aspects. I want to leave with that. want. to rediscover what's great about America. because this was the Bill Clinton line. for funny for Bill Clinton kind of. turning me into a Republican in the. first place. He's got the best line in. politics for me, which is there is. nothing that is wrong with America that.

cannot be solved with what is right with. America. That's right. And and that's. what I want for this moment. That's my. political project is how do we get back. to a place where America is on its front. foot? I mean, we've got a we've got so. much work to do now. Trump's destroyed. so much. So, the question is if Trump's. going to burn it all down, what are we. going to build? Not what are we going to. go back? What are we going to. reestablish? What are we going to build. new? Because we have we have a. renaissance moment and I want to be part. of that. >> What does this opportunity represent? That and that is such a crucial point is.

that this cannot just be another turn of. the wheel in the cycle that we have been. on. This is a moment uh of that needs. real consideration. and and that's I think where these. things and it's kind of nice to see you. know we're all building out our our. ecosystems of communication and and we. all exist in an economic uh thing but. there's good faith and there's bad faith. and there's people that utilize those.

mechanisms cynically and there are. people that you that are doing it for. the very reason that you're talking. about which is I'm just trying to figure. out how to exert some kind of. gravitational force in this battle of. what I perceive as good versus evil that. pushes it to the good however. incrementally we can do that. >> my man that's right. >> and is the idea of that I is it for you. to identify those leaders that you think.

are going to have. sway. and try and get them to understand. the parameters of that conversation with. American voters that you've been having. >> Do you know what it is actually? Um, it's that I do think that politicians, pundits, like whatever elites, I just. think they start to forget about regular. people. I think regular people become an. abstraction like these like dots on. Steve Cornaki's big boards, like places. you go to mine votes.

>> And I just I want politicians to act. more like human beings. And I want them. and in doing so I would like them to. remember that like the stakes for human. beings are real. Like the reason I. rejected Trump in the beginning wasn't. because uh he was just a different kind. of Republican or he was kind of icky on. this. It was because he did not care. about people at all. He did not care. about America at all. >> You could feel that. You could you could. feel it. >> You know it. And so what do I want? I.

want to feel from a politician. And. voters want to feel from a politician. When we use authenticity as a buzz word, what they mean is like, man, show me you. like care and think about me, that you. care about this country, >> not as a strategy, but as as a being, >> as a human, like as a human level in. your that you're doing this job, that. you came to this work because you wanted. to make people's lives better. That we. can argue about what our specific. policies are to do that, but like. believe that people want to make. people's lives better. >> Chicken in the egg. Do you think that.

our system of politics for all its. shenanigans and fundraising and. corruption enabled mostly by a Supreme. Court that's decided money is speech and. corporations are people and corruption. doesn't exist and uh partisan. gerrymandering is fine uh but. remediation is not. Um, do you believe. that that system. creates that in politicians or that a. certain kind of more craven individual.

looks for the ring and wants to get that. power or is it a combin? What has been. your experience in seeing like does the. system. create that in people or are the people. going into that clearly corrupt system. that way? >> Man, that's a good question. And I I. don't. >> That's WHAT WE'RE END SARAH. THAT'S WHAT. WE'RE ENDING ON TODAY. That's what we're. ending on. >> Okay. >> Come on. Give me some hand gestures. while you're at it. >> I'm going to tell you this is why last.

night this is why last night mattered so. much because I think there are. vicissitudes in politics, right? There. are there are eras and I think we are. coming out of an era where a lot of. people were in politics for the wrong. reasons. And the people who won last. night, you know what they are? They're. young. They're like 39, 40 years old, 45. years old. Right? These are people for. Donald Trump has defined the last decade. of their politics and they were forged. at a time they were called to service to.

oppose that. Right? And so these I. believe we now have a generation of. people like uh uh Hamilton, the guy who. just won in Kansas, like these were. people who were called to service. John. Oaf, he's a guy who I feel like it's not. just that it it that that he wants the. moment. The moment's choosing him. Pete. Buddha Judge just went and spent months. on the road going to every red place. talking to every person who voted. Republican believing that they can still. be reached. And that energy, that new. energy, these new this this this this. new um talent, >> this new era.

>> uh group of people that got pulled in. because they were a reaction to Trump, I. think they could be in it for the right. reasons. Now, will the cease system. corrupt them? Maybe. Or maybe they'll. change the system. It's possible to. still hope. >> Bless up. Bless up. >> Bless up. You just exp- you explained. the entire uh uh socopolitical media. complex through Taylor Swift's era. albums, >> which is exactly what I was trying to. do. >> And let me tell you something, to be. able to pull that off.

>> on No Sleep. God, God bless her. I don't. know what you're like when you're. getting enough rest, but you're. crushing it today. >> Thank you, John Stewart, >> for sure. uh really appreciate you, man, and and. really appreciate you taking the time to. come on the show and uh especially in. this moment where I know you're you're. fired up and doing all this work and all. that. So, uh thank you for being here. and uh really look forward to to seeing. you again. Sarah Longwell, New York. Times bestselling author of How to Eat. an Elephant: One Voter at a Time,

publisher of The Bull Work, host of the. Focus Group podcast, and my guest is on. her way to two or three other focus. groups even right now because never. stops. >> Never stops. Hey, you changed my life, man. Thanks for having me on. >> Oh, man. Thank you so much. >> What? >> She is functioning on a level of of. expertise and execution on no sleep. >> The vibes are just that good.

>> She's got she's got the pit vibes. Yeah, >> she's got there's been an accident at. the plant and we've got we've been here. all night and now there's 37 more. people that are coming in. It's. >> the day shift, baby. >> On a there was a a gas explosion. at the corner of Perante in Maine. Uh, flying high. I I I I'm telling you. though, I hate consultants and focus.

group people because it always feels. cynical and it always feels like they're. just trying to figure out a way to hack. into your brain so that they can. manipulate it. She does not strike me in. that way. And I don't think I'm being. naive. >> I think she is idealistic. I think she. is trying to actually. oh my god find out what people. really think and work towards the good.

>> Yeah. And it really comes across in the. podcast like I feel like you know you. always like understand that people are. complicated and like how like at the end. of an election you're like how did it. shake out this way? You're looking at. like which groups went where and it but. people are very nuanced and that is. something like really comes across in. her podcast. I it was very enlightening. in the weeks leading up to the election. to hear what people were actually saying. in these states. >> Therapeutic honestly. Yeah. And it's. also, you know, often times and I and I.

apolog I am working off of the most. cynical interpretation of focus grouping. and because that's been my experience. with the people and the people that I. know like it's all it's like Frank L. >> where they're like I found a word that. if you use this word you can trick them. into not understanding what the. Affordable Care Act is. >> Well, you're also trying to hear what. you want to hear. You know, it's like. Yeah. But you're you're what you're. doing is you're you're poking their. brains to find ways around what they.

really think. >> You're trying to hack it, >> right? And you view the people that. you're talking to as a commodity, a a. means to the end of what you want. I get. the sense she really. is a humanist. like she really has an. affection for people. You might not you. don't have to agree with her on all her. political people, whatever it is that. you want to do, but.

>> there's no question in my mind that she. is approaching this from the perspective. of like people want to be good. >> Yes, 100%. And she writes about people. so affectionately in her book, which is. after listening to the people on her. focus group podcasts. I'm like, if you. can have affection for all of these. people, you're a good person because I'm. ripping my hair out. >> She's respectful and how she does it as. well, which I appreciate. Like, she's. not talking down to people. She's not. talking down about people. It's human.

politics, which is great. >> And I've always known that about her. I. mean, I remember that from when I met. her in the green room. >> You mentioned that. Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. No, I I remember that uh the. whole I do actually remember though. Santorm and his kids like cuz I I. remembered that so clearly cuz it was. that was on Santorum's we used to get a. lot of conservatives that would come on. and be like I'm the relatable like they. would write a book you know the title of. it would be like liberals skull. nuns and then like they'd come on they.

and I' I'd ask him like liberals skull. nuns and is that do you believe. that and they're like look I don't think. we're that far apart. art. I think, you. know, I'm looking to build a bridge, you. know, and that was Santorm was on one of. those like bridge building like, hey, I'm just a normal, you know, >> reach across the aisle, >> not this person with these aborant. views. >> It's wild. What do What do the people do. we even want to hear for what do the. people want to know today? Other than. >> Oh, we want to hear from them. >> How are we going to celebrate?

>> Yeah. >> How are you celebrating? And I and I. mean this this opportunity this means. nothing. >> other than what an opportunity to. rebuild the better infrastructure and. system of of this. What a chance that is. now in front of everybody. But it is no. fate of complete that that chance will. be uh realized and taken. >> Let's do this. >> Let's go. >> All right. We're four this week. So.

first John. Yeah. >> For all that is good and righteous. >> Yes. >> Could you please ask George Clooney to. write an op-ed calling on Chuck Schumer. to step down as majority leader? >> Oh my god, that's hilarious. I thought. they were going to say, can you ask. George Clooney to write an op-ed to get. Biden to run again? He just write an op-ed that is a total. apologia and just say, "Hey, man. I. don't know what I was thinking. Uh, now. is your time. the the torch has been.

passed to the old generation. Let's do. that again. >> Yeah, let's run it back. >> Boy, if they don't take and and by the. way, that's job one of this opportunity. Job one of this opportunity is to tear. down the the obstacles and old way of. thinking that got us into this mess. Someone has to meet this moment. and they have got to show and and this. moment is not oh we get to impeach.

everybody like that. Like you have. an opportunity to actually govern. Do. it. Take it. And one of the first things. you need to do. >> is remove that system of seniority from. democratic politics. It is a. system and it needs to go. >> Yeah. And they're, by the way, they're. already like, Chuck Schumer deserves a. lot of credit for putting together this. Chuck Schumer deserves. Chuck Schumer. fought tooth and nail against half of.

these people. And even if he. didn't, he does not understand the. urgency of the moment and what the. future demands. I truly believe that. >> Yeah. From the genius that. brought you Haley Stevens, like, let's. let's move on. >> Yeah. Yeah. You never see that on the. movie poster, do you? >> Yeah. >> From the director of Haley Stevens. >> What else they got? >> All right, John. So, we're definitely. not getting the five grand now, right?

Uh. >> Oh, no. I He He was always going to give. us the five grand. >> It was one of those things like, "Hey, if you uh if you eat all your. vegetables, I'll take you to go see a movie. Saturday." And you never eat your. vegetables, but you know what you always. end up doing? Going to the movies. So, I'm sure he'll deliver. >> He's the type of man, and I think I'. we've all known this in New York. that always means what he says, always delivers on on the promise of of.

tomorrow. He is a promise made is a. promise. You know, he is the type of. leader and he he said this himself uh. while he was standing by the reflecting. pool uh that he has actually delivered. on more of his promises than he made. Yes. >> He's pulled off really a mathematical. miracle that we have not seen from a. politician. >> or anyone. >> or any human. >> Yeah. New maths. >> He has elevated. You know, they always. talk about how the the elevations that.

you take in certain religions to get. towards Nirvana. Uh he has gone beyond. that to the land where you can deliver. on more promises. I have answered more questions than have. been asked. Drug prices are down 400%. >> More than that. >> Riddle me this. >> It's the best economy in the history of. the world. He didn't promise that. >> No, >> but he delivered. >> But he delivered. >> God bless. >> Okay, next. >> What do we got? What do we got,

>> John? >> Yeah. >> Do you think Elon is kicking himself for. not having spent just a little more. money? >> That would have done it. >> Can I tell you? He's now playing the. whole like hi. You He's like joking now. like, "Oh, I guess my space lasers. didn't work." Like, it was no. joke. >> Yeah. >> It was the richest man in the world who. controls a social media platform that he. tilted in the direction of his politics, his ethnational, whatever the he is. now, and and tried desperately to exert.

gravitational force uh outside and. exceeding of what any citizen has any. right to be uh exerting on our political. process. And now he's gonna play it off. like ah it was just a little lark I was. on. that. Like that more than. anything uh demonstrated a poison in the. political system that needs to be. excised. Nobody should have no unelected.

individual should have that kind of. power over uh our system at all. Never. Never. Never. And I don't mean that like, oh, it's. criminal. Like, I'm not talking about. like that has to be right. It's just if. that is the way the system is designed, then the design of the system is. incorrect and he can play it off. Here's. the thing about Elon Musk. He got. cyber trucked. He He got hit by. a refrigerator on wheels, which is what.

his car is. >> It exploded. >> It exploded in his face. Bestlaid plans. And he was cocky and arrogant about I. have thrown my lot. His whole like. if if the Dems win this, we no. longer have a democracy. No. If we allow. one man who through the process of his. own riches is allowed to exert his will. over the will of our voters.

That's the threat. >> Yeah. >> Done. men. Texas can't be bought. >> Well, probably. All right. >> Okay, last one. >> John, >> long time listener here. >> Uhuh. >> Just curious. >> Wait, how long did you have been. listening? We've only been doing this. All right. >> Just curious if you're ever going to get. around to hang those photos on the. floor. >> Where would I put I don't know where I. would put them. I do. Do Do you have a.

place? Like I'm looking at the symmetry. in the room. First of all, what am I. doing in this room? >> Like it really like what kind of weird. Doctor Who side office am I even. existing in? I I don't It's like it. doesn't exist in dimensional time or. space. I'm I'm in, you know, uh William. Defo's lighthouse. I don't even know. what I'm doing here with the long beard. >> But uh. they're right. Look, I have I I don't.

even I can show you. See that cardboard. box there? >> Yes. >> That's been there for five years. I I'm. not even sure what's in it. >> What's in it? >> I don't know. >> Find out. >> There's something today. >> Oh my god. >> If you're listening on the audio, John. just walked away. >> Oh. >> Oh, it's an ore. >> That's That's unexpected. >> This is You know what this is from? This is from uh I I hosted I think it's.

memorabilia from hosting. Do you know. the Warrior Games? You know those it's. like Invictus but for So I host those a. bunch of years and they always give me. like super cool but I don't know. what to do with it. So I think that's. just a box filled with super cool. warrior game. >> You'll have to hang that on the wall as. well. >> That's the ore you can use to paddle. away from your lighthouse. It's been. there the whole time. >> That's hilarious. You know, should I put. the pictures up or let's ask the the. viewers at home, put the pictures up or. maybe just feston my office with gold.

cherubs. >> Oh, very in right now. >> in the style of despotic uh uh leaders. >> You know, I think between this and the. election, what we've learned is that. people really want home renovations. >> They really want home renovations. They. want them desperately. Uh Britney, how. how are they going to continue to stay. in touch with us? >> Twitter, we are weekly show pod, Instagram threads, Tik Tok, blue sky. Okay, we are a weekly show podcast and. you can like, subscribe and comment on. our YouTube channel, The Weekly Show. with John Stewart. >> Fantastic. guys. Uh, thank you so much. Fabulous.

episode as always. Uh, and uh, I want to. thank producer Britney MVC, producer. Jillian Spear, video editor and engineer. Rob Vatollah. Is Rob even still here. today or did he did he have the. >> last day? >> Last one. >> Robatola is leaving us for a couple of. weeks. >> He's having a baby. >> He's having a baby. >> Rob's having a baby. He's having another. baby. He's just he's building a team of. video editor and engineers. in his He's going to need the. soundproofing that many of us have as he.

fills his house with going. So, congratulations so much to Rob and uh. and his beautiful family. Uh our audio. editor and engineer Nicole Boyce, our. associate producer, Rebecca Rodenberg, executive producers, Chris McShane and. Katie Gray. Uh we will see you guys. Are. we seeing everybody next week? >> We sure are. >> Yeah. Doesn't it feel weird like after. an election like this? >> Take take the week off. >> Vacation, baby. >> Uh, excellent, excellent, excellent. We'll see you guys next week.

>> The Weekly Show with John Stewart is a. Comedy Central podcast. It's produced by. Paramount Audio and Bus Boy Productions.