Wireless Festival's £30million Mistake

Hi, Marina. >> Hello, Richard. How are you? I'm really, really well and we've got a lovely um is. it a broad sweep Yeah. of questions. here. We've gone behind the scenes with. people who've given us answers about. shows that we love, but we're going to. start with. a topical one. Let's get the pain out of. the way early. >> uh and something that I want to know the. answer to and I know I know you have um. some thoughts on it. It is about Kanye. West. Uh and the question is from Cat and the. Cat asks, "I was reading this week that. Pepsi and Diageo have dropped their. sponsorship of Wireless Festival after.

they announced Kanye as the headline. act. How does this work? What clauses. would be included in contracts that. allow sponsors to drop out and how would. this affect the funding of the festival? Do you think Wireless might have. consulted with their sponsors before. signing a headline act to avoid such. mess? Or maybe this is the publicity. they wanted." Yeah, I mean, you'd think, wouldn't you, Cat? When you wrote your. question, that was you were correct, but. we now know that the Wireless Festival. is no longer happening Was that the. publicity they wanted? >> Was that the So, I think we can answer. that bit fairly I think they didn't want. to sort of self-immolate, but they have.

But yes, if your lawyer has done their. job, then the contract should have. something called a morals clause or a. reputational brand safety clause, which. allows you as a sponsor to withdraw. funding or to take your branding off it. and distance yourself publicly. >> just makes absolute sense, isn't it? Cuz. you have there has to be a synergy. between the brand and what's happening. and you have to have some control over. that suddenly if the event does. something crazy that you can just go. >> quite clear, you're giving them money. There is some suggestion that lots of. this deal was done over a text message.

I I don't even know. As I say, the festival is no longer. happening. So, well done, guys. But if. they bring you into disrepute by. association or they cause public scandal. or outrage or they conflict with your. brand values in a sort of meaningful. way, then you can there's an off-ramp. for you to exit without penalty. >> one of the headline acts has released a. song called "Heil Hitler". Yeah, I mean. >> For example, I'm just saying yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah, or sold tickets with swastikas on.

and done like one stupid apology in a. trade mag or whatever it was. I mean, no. And sometimes actually festivals and. big live events will have effectively. content approval will happen via the. sponsors. And that's just I'm afraid the. way of doing business. >> By the way, almost always it's sort of. meaningless. If you're going to have a. festival, it's just people playing. music. There's going to be very, very. little that's going to upset the Pepsi. Cola's of this world in, you know, Coldplay. >> But if you book, you know, anti-semitism's leading problem rocker,

I don't know. Then they but they should. have realized because it happened at. Coachella in 2022 and I think they I. think Coachella pivoted quickly enough. and said, "Oh, okay. We won't have anything to do with this. any we'll get rid of him.". The Rest Is Entertainment is presented. by Octopus Energy. Now, they've looked. at admin and decided it should behave. much more like a game show. >> When you provide your meter readings, they will give you a spin of a wheel. which allows you to win prizes, allows.

you to win Octo points which you can. spend in the Shop to bus. Yeah, it's the. gamifying of the boring bits of your. admin. Now, listen, you know how much I. love Octopus Energy. The prizes I'm. going to say are not quite up to the. standard of the Wheel of Fortune. The. biggest ever prize on the Wheel of. Fortune is over 1 million dollars. What's feels more similar is some of the. the random prizes they'll get on the. Wheel of Fortune. They had ceramic. Dalmatians. I saw one where you could. win a Gucci calculator. You think, "Okay, that's two of my favorite.

things." There was an onyx bin. Yeah, I'm not Again, I'm not dissing the. prizes, but I would have probably gone. for the Dalmatian. None of these things. you have to worry about with Octopus. Energy. It is simply Octo points to. spend in the Shop to bus. Well, you have. to submit your meter reading to earn. your spin. And then you get prizes you. don't actually have to persuade yourself. you want like money off your next bill. You can get a thousand pound off your. bill. If you get the top prize, which is. 800,000 octa points, thousand pound off. your bill just on the spin of a wheel. Adidas obviously ended the Yeezy deal.

and they had I mean. I think millions of unsold sneakers. Gap. and Balenciaga cut ties. People have. been doing this with him for a long. time. It seems that the absurd misstep. from Wireless to think that, you know, even if this man has been going through. an episode and he was deeply ashamed and. he understood what he did, this is you. don't come back yet. Yeah, sorry. You. you really have to do an awful lot more. work Yeah. than that in in in order to. be, you know,

headlining a massive festival. >> days. >> of London. He was the headliner every. single night. >> Yeah. But as I say, yeah, if your lawyer has. done the job, you should be able to walk. away and not be in breach of the. contract. The contract should contain. effectively an escape hatch. And most. modern contracts, because I was speaking. to a contract lawyer about this, but. actually because of the nature of like. viral scandal and things can just blow. up out of nowhere, which they just. didn't in the old days, they just. didn't. And because of how social media.

has turbocharged everything, modern. contract law basically anticipates kind. of known unknown, you know, a. controversy that could happen and. they're much more flexible than they. ever were in the past. There's something. called a material material adverse. change clause. So, if it becomes less. commercially viable the event, you just. get out of it. But the one thing that. that I this person said to me is that it. very rarely goes to court cuz once this. has happened, you don't want to make it. even worse by So, they tend to settle. quietly cuz the reputational harm is. even bigger. This is why going for.

sponsors is a really is a big tactic. these days and it is effective. >> By which you mean activists. >> Yeah, people who want people who are. angry about it. Instead of complaining. to Wireless, you you complain to Pepsi. and Diageo. And if you don't think they. their phone was ringing off the hook and. people were saying why would you want to. be associated. That is always roots up now and people. do it all the time. So that has become a. very very big part of sort of activism. really and and getting things stopped is. by targeting the companies that sponsor. So if your lawyer.

>> seen it before with book festivals and. things like that where people have you. know big companies pulled out of book. festivals cuz of you know. being targeted by activists. This feels. to me like a situation where it's I mean. of course this was the right thing to. do. It's the Of course this was going to. happen. So I can't understand how they. couldn't possibly have foreseen this. But if I was someone who was working at. the Wireless Festival if I'm a rigger or. if I do you know I've got a concession. stand or something like that I'd be I'd. be suing the Wireless people or.

something because this is this is so. It's such a dumb decision to book him. that you've put everyone out of work. that they were expecting that might be a. big part of their income stream. And. it's again another we've talked a couple. of times recently about imagine imagine. a meeting and you know there's a there's. there's a Wireless meeting at some point. where a group of people all sat around. and say what do we think? Has he served. his time? He does seem contrite and I. don't think he was well and it is Kanye. and that nobody at that meeting just. said oh oh oh oh oh. let's do you know what? Let's for a. couple of years just book somebody else.

He deserves not to be having a festival. but I'm sorry for all the people who. work there Yeah exactly. >> derived income from it because. whoever made that decision is an idiot. >> I mean it seems absolutely insane. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Now Richard we had a question last. week from Susie about. on the Scott Mills story about depping. about replacing presenters at the last. minute and I believe you want to do a. follow-up on that. I did because I'd. been thinking about it Susie cuz we we. talked about that that you everyone is. replaceable was essentially what we were. saying and I I was trying to think was.

that the case and I was thinking about. Graham Norton but even I think of Graham. Norton Mr. Claudia came in and funny. enough Graham started his whole career. by replacing Jack Docherty on the his. Channel 5 show again with Jonathan Ross. I was what I was trying to think of is. those shows which are weekly and as live. and are built entirely around the. personality. of the presenter and I couldn't think of. one and then I did think of one. which is the Martin Lewis money show. which is one of the shows which has very.

very quietly become an enormous hit. It's live. It's Martin Lewis, you know, he's so well respected by everybody. So. I thought, well, I wonder. how would they deal with Martin Lewis. not being well. I wondered if he was the. exception to prove the rule. So I asked. Martin Lewis. Martin Lewis said, "Do you know what?" He said, "I was. listening to the podcast and I thought. exactly the same thing. I thought. >> I am indispensable. >> He didn't say that to be fair. He but he. said, "I want I wonder if if they do. have a plan." So he very very kindly. asked his producer. He said, "I've never.

thought about this, but what happens if. I'm ill?" And so can I this is Susie. You've gone two for one here. >> You should have your own health show. You should have your own health show. >> of Pointless in 2,000 episodes. I mean, a lot of times you don't miss episodes. >> you're a professional and cuz of doctor. theater. Cuz of doctor theater. Do you. mean cocaine? Cuz I always call it doctor showbiz and. then I always think that I always think. that sounds like a code word, but it's. not. >> No, it's not cocaine. It's the thing. that the adrenaline the whatever that. just seems to carry people through. including if they have a sort of.

norovirus during the live theater. performance. They're somehow able to get. through. We talked about it before in. previous episodes. So uh. you know, Martin Lewis said, "Just I. wondered if my show was an exception. We've we've long discussed what would. happen if I suddenly wasn't well enough. and we never really found a solution. Let me check with my exec.". Which he did and. he says, "This is this is it's almost like, you. know, when the Queen Mother died. There. is a detailed business continuity plan. for the Martin Lewis Money Show live. One, if Martin had an accident, we would.

go to a contingency show. Network has a. contingency program at all times ready. to go. For a long time it was Dinner. Dates. Two. If it were a case of transport, broken. leg, or quarantine and Martin's not up. for doing it, as he almost certainly. would be, he's worked through illness a. number of times, we would do it from. wherever he is, e.g., hospital bed with. Jeanette running the studio, much like. we did it with him from home during the. pandemic. Three. If Martin were ill and we had a. day or so notice, I'd look at an episode. that was still editorially valid, could. be rerun, i.e., council tax. cost-cutting, and strap it that it was a.

repeat and edit accordingly now to a new. time slot. So, there you go. Even Martin. Lewis. is not irreplaceable, although he may. have to be replaced by dinner dates. >> But yeah, there's not a sort of, you. know, deputy Martin Lewis anywhere out. there. >> Couldn't be, right? Apart from Jeanette, of course. And Claire ends that message. with hope that's useful. Claire, it. certainly is useful. It is more than. useful. And I like knowing, just like I. did with the plan for the death of the. Queen, I like knowing what would happen.

should he be unable to go on in any. format, including hospital bed. Nothing stops Lewis. Marina, question. for you from Sarah. We've really slipped. into the swing of not having surnames. again. It's I It's lax. Okay. You're. allowed this one or. >> of I guess so. Um but it's Come on. >> Cuz I thought about this one and this is. one I might genuinely cry in, so I I'm. holding it together. Yeah, it's really. Ask the question because I know what it. is. Sarah, your question is which pop.

culture moment broke your heart the. most? I still have memories of that. fateful day when Geri left the Spice. Girls. >> Well, I I thought about this in advance, and some of these I could really. actually cry in, but the cancellation of. Twin Peaks in 1991 was a heartbreaker. for me. That's a sort of like I because. I've talked about it on the show before, just how it completely opened my mind to. a different sort of world and it felt. like something so strange and wonderful. on television, and I absolutely loved. it. I thought a lot of about When I was. thinking about this, I thought a lot.

about death, and I'm definitely not. ranking any of these things because I. don't not exactly going to rank people's. deaths, but the death of River Phoenix, >> Mhm. the death of Kurt Cobain, the death. of Amy Winehouse, Yeah. and the death of. George Michael. Those really I found. those I mean, there were so many that. kind of get you, but obviously all of. those were untimely, and I just felt. those those really kind of grab me. But. in fictional things, I thought almost. felt I found more affecting in some ways. all just have stayed with me. And it's often the endings of things,

and I'm not going to do any spoilers, so. I'm just I think I can do it without. spoilers. >> The end of Blackadder Goes Forth, >> That's it. That I think that that will. be the vote of a lot of people at home. >> Yeah. The end of The Sopranos. Funnily. enough, there's a lot from Doctor Who. that I in I cried whilst watching. The. end of maybe David Tennant and Matt. Smith as Doctors I found really. emotional, but there's an episode where. Catherine Tate it's sort of the end of. her particular arc, and she says, "Don't. make me go back." And there's sometimes.

where. there's a line Yeah. where that distills. a whole show, and you had that in. something like Succession with "I love. you, but you're not serious people.". That's the whole show in in one line. And "Don't make me go back" for me is on. on Doctor Who the sort of wonder and. companionship, but also the tragedy and. loneliness that are involved in that. show. So it's just, you know, it's five. words, and it's sort of the whole show. >> And funnily enough, again, no spoilers, but Jon Pointing in Big Boys as well. There's a There's There's a line in that. which which has a similar effect. The.

death thing, I think yeah, I I I felt. only only I think cuz of my particular. upbringing and the things I grew up. loving, I I felt, you know, when Terry. Wogan passed away, that was a big one. for me. It's fascinating, isn't it? The. thing is it's always And I This is This. This will sound even more ridiculous, but when Jon Virgo died recently, I. know. >> I took it like a big thing. >> news alert, and I I knew you I knew you. Yeah, we we we exchanged on that because. I knew But that's, you know, that that's. the. joy of entertainment. That's the joy of. film and television and the things that.

we grow up with is you know, people you. know, we talk about the ridiculousness. of parasocial relationships, but those. are also important. You know Can I say. my actually the one that I think gets me. the most every time and it's a it's not. a forgotten television series at all, but lots of our much younger audience. will not know about it. There was a TV. series called Our Friends in the North, which was written by Peter Flannery. It. is an absolute masterpiece an absolute. masterpiece. I think it's nine one. hours. The end of that I even talking. about this I could actually cry in this.

It's over the final credits don't look. back in anger plays and it's a. contemporary song and it. has taken us from the 60s the show. The. time that it aired was when I was like. the age of the characters in the very. first episode and by the time in three. decades on. and I just remember thinking it's all. about loss and like. Oh my God, you sort of reckoning with. youthful idealism and that song and I. was like, "Oh my God, is this how it's. all going to end?" Because I was like. the the age of the characters when I.

watched that show in the first episode. The end of that show just is an absolute. gut punch and and and that just the that. music over the credits. They had a. different song over the credits as I. remember this each one, but suddenly. that that song has never made more. perfect sense than played over the. end credits of Our Friends in the North. >> people haven't watched Our Friends in. the North, really firstly you really. really recommend it, but we we spoke on. our Tuesday episode about Euphoria and. about Skins, which are shows where the. made people much more famous than they. were and that show you had a future.

James Bond, Daniel Craig, you had a. future Doctor Who, Christopher. Eccleston, you had incredible Gina. McKee, you had Mark Strong who people. didn't know particularly that he's in. everything and that that was just like a. That's the story that's the that's the. quarter that we follow through those. decades. >> Yeah. Yeah. What a gut punch. Anyway. What a. lovely question and Sarah mentions Jerry. with the Spice Girls, which is what. we're doing our bonus episodes on at the. moment, and then we got a new one coming. out this week. >> is, I believe, pending. It is pending.

So, Sarah, listen, that's a trigger. warning for you. Shall we go to some adverts? Let's. This episode is brought to you by. Bumble. Now, there's a modern phenomenon. when someone says they're on the apps, but what they actually mean is they. downloaded them, opened them once, and. then immediately felt tired. >> So, technically on the apps, but nowhere. near them. Making and updating a dating. profile can be weirdly exhausting. Too. many decisions, too much pressure to. come across as the best version of.

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feel like they're going somewhere. So, download Bumble today, show more of the. real you, and see why it tends to be the. app people hear about from friends. I. like the idea of someone missing a train. cuz they were petting a dog. >> Well, it's involving, isn't it? I mean, gross. Welcome back, everybody. Now, Richard, after your very moving hymn to sort your. life out last week, >> Mhm. we have a sort your life out. related question from Denise Tomlinson. >> Surname, thank you. >> Thank you for the surname, as well, Denise. She says, "How many people work. on Sort Your Life Out behind the scenes? I simply don't believe all of that can.

be achieved in a single week. Is it by. an army of runners?" Thank you, Denise. And so, if if if people don't know that. show, and I really, really do recommend. it, there is a a house which is. overcrowded, cluttered, what have you. Everything in the house is moved out. in boxes, everything. Every single item, every single item in that house is then. put in a warehouse. All the CDs are in. one pile, all the books are in one pile, all the clothes are in one pile. Like, everything is sort of laid out in an. enormous warehouse. Um there's then a few days where the the.

householders go through everything and. work out what they need to keep. Uh in. the meantime, work is being done on the. house and then the stuff gets moved back. in. That's the the basic format. So, there was a lot. going on in that and I think Neese is. quite right. It doesn't feel like that. the the four people on screen would be. able to do all of it. So, um I spoke to. Charlotte Brooks, who's the exact. producer of um Sort Your Life Out. I'm. going to have to read some of this off. the paper because she's given a very, very good detailed reply. And if you. like Sort Your Life Out, you will love. this. Charlotte says,

"So, this show is over 7 days. essentially. They've got a week to do. this whole thing. The 7-day turnaround. is genuine. Before the process begins, the team conducts interviews and films. the before shots, but the house is left. exactly as it is. Families are. explicitly told not to tidy up." That's. always the question you have. They go, "Has this been made worse? Has this been. made better?" Charlotte says, "It's not. been made worse. It It's not been made. better. It definitely hasn't been made. worse either. They don't go and. deliberately mess things up as well. So, the packing is done by the family. alongside the on-screen talent. That's. Dilly, Rob, Ewan, and Stacey with a with.

{comma}. with around 15 runners and a. and a removals company handling the. heavy lifting." Because I think it's. fair to say they have a lot of stuff. >> Oh, there is a lot of stuff. >> It's kind of And the point of the show. And these four are also making a TV show. as well and having to do pieces to. camera. So, it's it's Yeah. You need a. lot of If anyone has moved house, um you. need a lot of people, right? Unlike a. normal house move, everything is packed. by item type rather than by room. So, all the books together, all the chargers. together, all the toothbrushes together.

This makes the warehouse layout. possible. That's good. Imagine if you. had to move house by item rather than by. room. That would be insane. >> put all of our cables in one I want to. say box, but of course it was like about. five boxes and I said to Kieran. I want you to sit down with me because. this is so abnormal and he was like, "But I need all these cables." I was. like, "You just don't need nine SCART. leads. What even is one anymore?" You. don't need any of these that it was so I. tried to do just on cables a sort your. life out and you know what, we.

rationalized it down to. about 100 cables. I would say one of. which we'll ever touch again, but at. least we got rid of some of the. emotional baggage hanging him down. maybe. And by the way, if you haven't. seen Sort Your Life Out, that is a. precis of it in about 10 seconds. It's. It's exactly that. Why do we keep what. we keep? What does it mean? Sort Your. Life Out says, "Unpacking and laying out. the warehouse takes a team of roughly 20. people. It's five or six producers plus. the runners about a day and a half." So, there's an amazing shot Oh, one of the.

really great shots in in Sort Your Life. Out is when you see everything in their. house just laid out. Takes a day and a. half to do that. >> about four hours on the cables, trust. me. So, But you should have. >> the feeling. Cables are the worst thing. you can put together because they just. they tie they like even like one cable. ties itself up. That's a crazy thing to. do. >> for for a nice present to try and make. it go better, I bought some nice cable. ties that we could wrap the ones that we. kept with. I think though if you grew up without. technology and now there is a lot, the. temptation is never to throw a cable. away because it's you never really know.

which is which. So, I'm with Kieran on. this one. >> Yeah, I will say that you're saving this. for a presidential archive. >> As on so much else. Yes, Kieran's library. The current. record on Sort Your Life Out is 400. boxes of clutter across seven lorries. Wow. Uh the production tries to find a. warehouse within 15 minutes of the. family's home. The the furthest they've. managed is about 90 minutes away. That's. a So, you got to get like an empty. warehouse. Yeah. That's a good call to. get if you're a warehouse owner that. suddenly Sort Your Life Out are coming. in for a week. Producers aren't just.

unpacking, they're identifying. meaningful story items and logging where. they sit in the warehouse. So, the team. that talks to the family ostensibly. beforehand about specific objects, a. teddy bear, say, uh they can then be. tracked from the initial snoop initial. the initial snoop uh through the. warehouse to the final renovation. This. can't be right, but Charlotte says it's. right and everything else he says is. right. With up to around 400,000 items. in an average home, without that work it. would seem completely random to the. viewer. There can't be 400,000 items in. a home. God, I mean, presumably there. can be. They would know. I It seems.

>> 40,000? I. Listen, I'm going to go back to this. >> Just refer to these people. The show. Listen, it's amazing. Families are asked. to remove anything super valuable before. the process starts. Anything private or. confidential found during packing, including adult accessories, which they. find a lot of, are placed discreetly in. a sealed box and returned off camera. That's the other question people always. ask. So, do they ever find? And the. answer is yes, they do. They should have. an after hours version. They should do. After filming, discarded. items are stored for about 6 days as a.

grace period. That's interesting. So, when they've agreed to get rid of stuff, they get stored for 6 days. Families. often need a week to adjust to the. reorganized home, and the producers give. them a tour and they remain available by. phone to help them find anything. Firstly, anything that they kept that. they've lost, but also anything they. just agreed to throw away, they can. bring back within that 6-day grace. period. Setting everything as the. family's responsibility, the show may. help set up, say, a Vinted account or. suggest a car boot sale, but it's not. their job to to shift the stuff. We also. asked Charlotte about Stacey. Just she's.

such a brilliant presenter on that show. And she says her Stacey's DNA is all. over the show. Her total empathy, zero. judgment, and genuine obsession with. crafting and organization. Her. tapped-to-tidy Instagram videos made her. a natural fit. Her life experience as a. mother of five in a blended family means. she walks into every home believing it. could be hers. You can't produce that. Thank you, Charlotte. And I mean, listen, as a testament to the producers'. craft, you can see how much is produced. on that show and the incredible work. that goes into it to give us those. wonderful moments. But, uh, the best.

producers in the world also will always. end with, "And you can't produce that.". Because there is There's also the magic. You have to leave room for the magic, as. well. I love that. What a masterclass. I. have a question for you now from Alex. McDonald. Surname. Thank you, Alex. Alex says, "You recently discussed MacGuffins and. Chekhov's gun. I wonder if you can. discuss red shirt characters in films. What are the origins of the term, and. what are some of your favorite red shirt. characters?" We're really going through. all the MacGuffins, Chekhov's gun, and.

shirts. Red shirts comes from the. original Star Trek series, and they What. it means is expendable characters who. end up dying to sort of show you how. dangerous the situation is. And the red. shirt came from whenever they would they. would beam down to another planet, there. always there'd be Kirk, there'd be. Spock, but there'd also always just be. some. junior kind of crew member in a red. shirt. >> Red shirts, security personnel rank wore. red shirts. And within Starfleet, and so. those people would often die. Actually,

yeah. Someone did an audit, I think, and. actually found there's more There's. fewer red shirts than died than you. think. Gold shirts, that's command line. They A lot quite a few of them died. And. blue, which was famously science and. medical, racked up quite a lot of. casualties, as well. As I said, what. they're doing is they're showing The. purpose of them in a narrative is to. show you how dangerous the situation. could be. The What are the big bads that. you're facing? What's their method of. dispatch? And so you're supposed to. think, "Oh my god, that But that could. happen to our leading characters, too.".

>> Exactly. But without it having to have. to have to have to your leading. character. >> And then it might happen to bank. security guards, or it might happen to. whatever. I Sorry, I keep mentioning. Kieran in this, but Kieran who grew up. with his father watching films, and who. would always say, "Oh my god, end of. that one" at a certain moment. So he had. that sort of structural sense of it. He Kieran always does this when watching. TV or watching a movie. He'll be like, "Oh my god, it's tickets for him." If. someone comes in and is like really. sweet, and has got a kid brother that. you just want to get back home to, but. is not one of the main characters. Yeah. Within two seconds Kieran will have said. to our children, "It's tickets for him.".

It's That's the I think it's quite an. Australian expression. It's follow the. Australia you know, punching your. ticket, getting whatever. Meaning you. know, this person's going to die in a. minute. And you say, "Thank you, we. know." Anyway, I think slightly the ones. I'm going to I I it's sort of if they. just do just get shot the minute they. get off the landing craft, then they're. such a sort of low-level henchmen that. we can't even remember them. So for me. when you slightly care you care about. them. >> a redshirt character. Someone just in. the background getting shot. It is it. >> sometimes were in the Star Trek thing.

just to show you. But. >> not it's usually someone who's had a. couple of lines or or all the beginnings. of a character. Something that's going. to hint sort of a character arc. You. think, "Oh, maybe this person's going to. stick around." I'll do three. I'm glad. you haven't asked me the minute order. all. I think I I do have a favorite. But. I I actually do. >> you do your favorite last? Yes, I will. do my favorite last. >> Were you going to? Yes, I was actually. on this occasion. I'm I'm learning real. fast here. >> Yeah. I mean I wouldn't say real fast, but. I'll agree with the learning. Okay. I just find it funny when the Steve.

Coogan character in Tropic Thunder steps. on one of his own landmines. Mostly. because Steve Coogan is actually famous. So doing making him a bit of a redshirt. is funny. And it's really unexpected. And he's not necessarily you wouldn't. necessarily say, "It's tickets for you, mate." Yeah. That's a real subset by the. way is famous people who become redshirt. characters because the one thing you. know when a famous person's in it is. they're sticking around throughout the. whole thing. >> Or I'll say the murder or yeah. Yes. Yeah. Exactly. But occasionally you know. that someone has gone into a show as a. favor to a mate and they've just done a. day. Yeah. And they've gone, "Oh, yeah,

of course I'll do it." What the. steps on a landmine? Yeah, yeah, I'll do. that. Don't worry. So Steve Coogan is a. director in Tropic Thunder that happens. to. In a way because of the red the. nature and the origin of the redshirt. trope I slightly feel like you have to. deploy somewhere. There's kind of a. quasi military or a land or something to. it to me. And so I would sit There's a. guy called Porkins in Star Wars: A New. Hope and this entire law has built up. around this character. By the way, he's. the guy he's one of the X-Wing pilots.

He's Red Six and he's. and he they get rid of some sort of you. know deflection thing on the the Death. Star. But then he he gets kind of taken out. but he allows Luke Skywalker a shot at. the ventilation shaft. So there is a. whole sort of point to him. But this. it being Star Wars this entire and it he. was. the actor who played him actually was. American but lived in the UK but this. enormous law has built up around this. particular character. So I find that. quite interesting. And then my favorite.

has to be because I think it just takes. every red shirt box is Bill Paxton as as. Hudson in Aliens. For me it's so crucial you know he's. about to leave the service. He wants to. set up a bar you know all of that stuff. He's really funny. He has lots of good. lines so you warm to him but then he. does have a sort of breakdown. And he. has a very he has an iconic line. game over man and then there's a moment. where he is running a single handed. resistance you know. I'll hold them off. as long as effectively doesn't say this. but I'll hold them off as long as I can.

So you know it's a form of sacrifice and. then a drone takes him but he is. posthumously decorated. So for me that's. the full red shirt arc and it's perfect. and I love Bill Paxton in that movie and. he's the sort of you can see why he. became such a fan favorite. And it's a. sort of iconic movie so I'll put I'll. put I'll say Hudson from Aliens. Yes and. that is another great trope the red. shirt. The yes I have in books all the. time when I'm thinking about characters. you know that they cuz you know as I say. you never quite know who's going to be. killed. or I don't when I start.

writing a book and you know you'll have. people and some people you love them so. much you think oh no I want to bring you. back for another book and some people go. I really love you which means I think it. would be quite moving if we kill you and. sometimes people are just awful and. shoot the puppy. and and that's my career. Do you. remember by the way and this this is. something if you if you want to like a. free shot of getting a question on this. podcast. Remember when Bill Paxton and. Bill Pullman sort of became famous at. the same time? Yeah. And became. absolutely interchangeable in my mind at.

least. Um, I'd love a question on people. who you who always get mixed up for each. other. Oh, that's a good one. >> Yeah. Yes. Cuz there were there are like. people. people with either similar names or. similar looks who get mixed up for each. other all the time. >> malfunction at one point and then from. but thereafter you always think the. other one has the other's career. Yes, exactly that. If you want to word that. in a in a neat way and by the way, if. you want to include your surname, then. that might be a good way of getting on. the podcast. The rest is entertainment. at goldhanger.com is I think all I need. to say now. Yeah, there we go. Thank you.

so much everyone. Thank you Marina. As we've said our Spice Girls special. series is is continuing tomorrow for for. our members. Do feel free to join up for that if you. wish to after listening and all of that, but. you don't have to. And if you don't, then we'll see you all. next Tuesday. >> See you next Tuesday.