Why We Haven’t Found the New Kardashians

What are we talking about this week? >> We are talking about the sort of eternal. race to be the new Kardashians. And Alex. Earl, who we've talked about before on. this podcast, the sort of someone who. came to prominence on TikTok and is a. big influencer. She's got a big new show. in which she and her family are. attempting to do just that. And we'll. discuss TV families, how they work, >> the runners and riders. We're also going. to talk about the new Grand Tour came. out this week, which is essentially Top. Gear by any other name. Uh, and I want. to talk about how I think they nailed.

certain things and about succession, you. know, how you pick new hosts and also a. little something which we'll come into. Alex early as well about how you bring. YouTubers to uh, television. >> Yes. And we're also going to talk about. Galliano Gate, the um, John Galliano. retrospective that Anna Winter tried to. push through at the Metropolitan Museum. of Art in New York that's all tied to. the Met Gala and all that sort of thing. um has met with such a backlash that. it's been pulled and we'll be talking. about what it means for Anna Winter and.

her power and the Metgala itself. >> The rest is entertainment is presented. by Octopus Energy. Now, entertainment. loves keeping business in the family. >> Yeah, it's no secret that that's. traditionally been a an easier route. perhaps into show business. This not. necessarily the only way to get into the. business. However, there are lots and. lots of examples where it really has. worked for people. The Coppellers. stretch out beyond film into music. Nicholas Cage though changed his surname. from Coppa. He's Francis Phil Coppler's.

nephew and he changed his surname just. so that he could, you know, just be. Nicholas Cage. >> But one assumes that in LA they did know. that he was a Coppa. >> He stands alone for me. >> I also think Stennis Glasgard is an. interesting one because lots of his. children became very very famous and he. always calls himself a Nepo dad because. as his children got more and more. famous, people started coming to him. more for for roles. That's that's a nice. way around. >> So, entertainment has some remarkable. family machinery, but however useful the. surname isn't always the only way in. >> No, Octopus Energy, for example, didn't.

inherit its place in the energy. industry. It's proudly independent. And. one way it does things differently is. having each customer's account looked. after by the same small team of around. 10 energy specialists. They know exactly. who you are. >> Let's start with Alex. Um, and we'll. talk maybe we should start with the. Kardashians just to remind you of how he. kind of foremost I have not heard of. them. Yeah. >> Well, let me remind you how our sort of. foremost reality TV family became. bazillionaires. Um, Kim had a sex tape.

It was leaked. I fundamentally now. believe, having never thought this, that. they had something to do with it. Um, and they did a reality show off the back. of that that was sort of viewed Keeping. Up with the Kardashians. >> Why? So why why do you believe it now. when you didn't believe it before? >> Cuz I just didn't believe any woman. would do that to themselves. >> But now you believe that she did. >> Having read and watched so much about. it, I believe that they had some that. her and the mother had had something to. do with it. >> Mother. >> Yeah. I mean, >> wow.

>> I mean, to be fair, >> I just couldn't believe it situation. And yet, >> to be fair, I would if you told me that. that's I think I would like to watch a. reality program about those two. >> Yeah. Well, they got a lot of plot. lines, let's put it that way. And they. had a reality show that was viewed as. trash. Um, and no one had any idea that. their endless parade of sisters. beginning with a K would become this. huge, they leveraged that attention into. absolutely multi-billion dollar. businesses, personal brands, social. media distribution, obviously brand. tie-ups. It's the most extraordinary.

kind of 21st century story. >> If enough, as as we'll talk about with. with the Top Gear thing later, it is an. object lesson. It happens time and time. and time again that if you want to build. a multi-billion dollar franchise, >> you sort of do it accidentally. Very few. people have ever done it deliberately. It's often it comes completely out of. left field. Creating something that no. one else has ever created before. Finding a little niche that no one's. ever seen before. And that's the way to. do it. They proved it. Top Gear, as. we'll discuss later, proved it as well. But now people are deliberately trying.

to do it. Right. >> Yeah. I I think I would like to talk. before we move more fully on to um Alex. is a little bit about the idea of as the. family as sort of TV pay dirt. >> but also the idea of a family as a kind. of mirror to societies and a country's. kind of changing norms because they. always used to be the center of every. America's and therefore ours best love. sitcoms and so you had nuclear families. first in things like Leave it to Beaver.

and then you get to the 70s and you get. more realism and social satire. There. were the Brady Bunch. They were a. blended family which we, you know, see. in the 80sby show. >> Well, I was about to say ' 80s, it's. money. >> Um, and the Cosby's, the Huxables were. rich. Um, the '9s you get into all these. kind of workingclass struggles. So, you. got the Connors in Roseanne and then. ultimately you get to something like. Modern Family, which is huge, the. Pritchetts, and they're very modern. They're blended. They've got all sorts. of, you know, that there are gay people. in it. They've got they've adopted.

children and they've got a much younger. wife. all of those things, but and they. really mattered. They're huge. These. matter much less now in our culture, but. the family is a kind of engine and a. mirror has migrated to and this is a big. catch all to reality really. It's to. other platforms and delivery systems. So, it's these reality brands and they, you know, and it's the Kardashians, the. Beckhams, the YouTube families. And what. you do is you I suppose what you ideally. do when you're trying to make one of.

these as an engine of kind of money. Uh. you find a charismatic family, you turn. their intimacy into content and then you. turn all of that attention into wider. business opportunities and you can see. the appeal because you've got a sort of. if you've got lots of them and they're. all doing their own things and there's. friction like all families, then you've. got a sort of content dynasty and you've. got all these things. Now many have. tried and failed. Yeah. >> To do this. Most by the almost all. people try and failed. There is an. amazing subse sector of things that I.

absolutely love and they're quite hard. to find because they don't get pushed. into your algorithms. >> which is you know we know that families. are huge. We know that um uh you you. know um putting your makeup on in the. morning is huge. Finding those but that. nobody watches. >> So but you know you you know seeing. everybody is trying to do this and the. only ones we ever get pushed are the. ones that succeed. I I I find that an. incredibly interesting subgenre of. online content. >> It's actually quite a funny idea for a. sitcom, isn't it? Speak go just to go. back to it. A family who are just not.

getting any hits. They're doing all the. Yeah. They're doing all the stuff that. you're supposed to do. They're having. arguments in the kitchen. They're. putting their makeup on the morning. Everyone's doing their bits, but. nobody's watching. >> and deliberately sabotaging themselves. in really really increasing ways just. just to get the number counts up. Like. divorcing. >> Sorry, I'm just pitching this literally. as I'm thinking of it. And then they. they're getting into these Yeah. And. they're getting into these real life. situations and it's Yeah. But nobody's. watching. Yeah. And like their friends. sort of come around. So why do you why. are you getting divorced again? This.

seems Yeah. Oh, it was phenomenal. It's. cuz we had 17 views of the first time. We got 23 when I suggested it. So that's. an uptick of 47%. >> Well, okay. Exactly. Because we we'll. take this offline, but yes. Um the. people who've tried the Demios are kind. of the big um Okay. the two sisters. Dixie and Charlie. Charlie was the most. followed person on Tik Tok. >> And this is the thing that keeps. happening which is that people come on. the platforms and by that I'm talking. about not the streamers. I'm talking.

about you know Tik Tok or YouTube or. whatever. And then the streamers think. okay how can we sort of migrate this. fame? What is the fame? How can we. migrate it? How can we monetize it? And. people said oh these are like the Gen. Zed Kardashians. Um, and they got them a. show, the the Demeia, I can't even. remember what it was called, but it just. didn't really work. They they were. already really famous in a way, but they. didn't seem to know how to capitalize on. or suddenly the people who are producing. the show or to sort of magnify that.

fame. >> Again, before we go back to Alex, this. is it reminds you of a conversation I. had recently with a very very very big. TV producer out in LA who does a lot of. work with influencers now in bringing. them onto streaming and onto television. and things like that. Uh, and this idea. of the family is once you're massively. famous, where do you go next? And one of. the first things they do is, oh, my. husband's going to come in, my kids are. going to come into it. Because this. producer was talking about formats and. how if you ever pitch a format to an. influencer, it absolutely doesn't.

compute. It's not like they're anti they. don't understand it. They'll go, "Wait, so we do this and then next week we do. the same thing." And you're like, "Yeah, well, because there's a series arc and. we have to do this, that, or the other.". Uh, and this producer I was talking to, she was saying, you know, at first I was. like, but surely you've got to see this. is like an incredible way for you to, you know, build your brand and make. money. Uh, and she said like at one. point one of them said to her, you have. to understand that um, repetition kills. retention.

And she said from the moment they said. that actually every meeting I had with a. YouTuber I thought you have built a huge. business you've built this incredible. content industry your own way and so I. get it and I absolutely accept it. I. love a format because that's the. generation I'm from. But I [snorts]. understand that you see this very. differently and so they won't the. traditional thing we would do if we. built up a load of followers is you get. little formats, little offshoots uh and. you know little games stuff like that. Uh but they don't do that. So actually. they only have one way to go which is to.

expand their life a little bit because. all they're showing is exactly what. happened today and it has to be. different to what happened yesterday. So. to expand their life out into families. which is what Alex has done right. So. Alex has reached a certain level. Where. do you go from there? She's not going to. do a game show because repetition kills. retention. So actually what you do is. here's more of my I'm going to I'm going. to widen the circle of my life for you. >> Well exact that is what she's that's. what she has tried to do. It's called. Earl Meets World. It's on Netflix. Um,

it's doing quite well in the charts. It's not like it not, but that's here. So, it might be bigger in the US, but. it's sort of in the the top five. To go. back to who Alex is, she's a social. media star. She started on TikTok. She. did get ready with me videos when she. was at college. She went on Dancing with. the Stars. She cried. She had famously. an ill- fated deal with Alex Cooper's. podcast, Empire, Unwell. Alex Cooper. from Call Her Daddy. Um, and there's. been this whole kind of beef and drama,

which we've covered before on this. podcast. And there's always been this. sense that something big went down, which we'll get to on this, by the way. Something big went down and we're going. to find out about it at some point. And. it's the tea is being held back, but. it's all there and it would be kind of. hugely destabilizing to addict Cooper, whatever. She's now got her skin care um. a skincare line of course um because. that's where you make all the actual. money from is by rolling it out into an. actual product. >> That's the other thing this producer was. saying to me. They're saying that all of.

the production companies now are chasing. YouTubers and saying we've got to sign. people up. We got to do x y and zed with. them. >> Uh and uh she was saying you you cannot. make money out of these YouTubers cuz. the way they make their money is. >> they they have a sweet line or or makeup. line. They just want that. >> That's what that industry is. That. industry is not. >> possibly offer them what that will, you. know, Haley Bieber had like eight. products. >> and she sold the company for like a. billion. I mean, it's it's it's mad. You. can. >> It's not It's not an eight episode doc.

drama. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, she's got the show. She's Who are. the principles? Okay. So, there's her. obviously. There is her sister Ashton. There is her father manager, a dadger, I. suppose, if you want to adapt it from. the Chris Jenner thing. And the stepm. mother Ashley, she's got a really. interesting story because she was one of. the cool girls who the New York governor. Elliot Spitzer, she was caught up in the. whole scandal of that. >> Um, she's got her mother, Alisa. She. There are some young.

>> Sorry. Everyone in this family begins. with a. >> Yeah, I know. >> The little ones don't actually. They've. messed that up from a Kardashian point. of view. Um, there's some younger. children who seem to live with some. giant pet menagerie in in New Jersey. It's really weird watching the younger. ones. They're already I found it. incredibly bleak. They're already on. that kind of brand building path. They. already speak in that, you know, I've. spoken before about how I thought that. American children were always just. better at acting because they were sort. of naturally performative. I don't know. Something that they osmotically absorb.

via their culture that just means. they're better at performing. But I now. found the find the timing of all these. people and on almost any documentary and. talking heads and everything is so. mannered. Some people are just so. reflexively bent to the requirements of. whatever format they're on that you know. when you speak when you're a talking. head or the kind of people who do the. little inter you know the contestants on. something like Hell's Kitchen who do the. interstitial bits who go so I was saying. to Chef Ramsey it was like wow you've. really held it together for the.

producers here and I can they can stitch. it all together you know exactly what. you need to do. I'm starting to really. hate it. Like, it's starting to force me. to turn off. >> Those are called those are called MIVs, by the way, which is MIVs, which is your. master interview, which is the thing you. record after you've recorded everything. And you're absolutely right. People. absolutely have the language in the same. way that football pundits worked out a. long time ago, you know, how to speak in. in a certain way. >> And players don't say nothing after. games. >> Yeah. And people just go, you know, and. you know, I'm thinking, well, if he. votes for me, I'm out. And you think,

well, you know already. You know. already, right? >> Yeah. the sort of eternal continuous. >> Yes, the eternal continuous. >> It's so kind of but I hate it cuz it's. so glib and predictable and you're such. a good little TV soldier when you're. doing it. I just feel like you're such a. cog, aren't you? You're just. >> I love them. I love them. >> I hate them. Okay, but she says Alex in. this there's a side to the creator. economy you don't see. Now bear in mind. that like something like 57% of American. Gen Zeders want to be a super creator. like her or super influencer or however. she'd describe herself. So, they are.

trying to transplant that one type of. platform fame onto another thing, but I. didn't think it worked. >> I will I will say this to anyone. listening to this, definitely watch it. >> Oh, it's because it's sociologically. anthropologically fascinating. >> And why is it not like the Kardashians? I'll tell you why it isn't like the. Kardashians. They are very, very. quotable and memeable. The Kardashians. Yeah. I mean that you know obviously. they're like the master memes of sort of. Kim there's people that are dying and. the things that are just are sort of. iconic but they had they have very.

distinctive looks as well the. Kardashians they changed completely the. way women saw their bodies. I mean they. have completely changed what silhouettes. were acceptable. It's really they. brought curves back in a way that. couldn't you couldn't have predicted. Alex is sort of different because she's. very bland and neutral and she kind of. looks like everyone else on Instagram. Yeah. >> Who gets to push brands because they all. have sort of the same type of work done. and they also kind of look all the same. >> It's a very AI look.

>> Yeah. It's really bland. So there's not. something kind of distinctive and weird. and kind of like hot Adam's family. I. mean I think all the Adams family are. hot, but you know what I mean. There's. not something like that about them. >> Yeah. And by the way, that's what she. looks like. And so that's that's. absolutely fine. But it's but it's. interesting that that that's a look that. is now. >> but to me it's interesting. Yeah, I. agree. And but but it's incredibly. homogenized. Yeah. All the stuff that. happened on the show. I didn't care. about any of it. It's there's. interesting stuff like oh she can't be. trusted not to report conversations that.

someone says but then it's glossed over. But the mega plotline and this is what I. found so extraordinary. The thing that. we've been talking people who were. interested in this feud and whatever. have been talking about for months is. the idea that what happened with Alex. Cooper because they've really gone at it. in public saying I could say a lot of. stuff. I could say a lot. It's like okay. well you got a TV now show now so you. probably should say a lot of stuff. >> I think she teed up beforehand that. you're finally going to hear the truth. about edits in this show. >> It doesn't it doesn't happen. All of. it's dropped. There's a lot of stuff on. this TV show about how and when she's.

going to spill this tea, >> but it's endlessly edged, but never. actually concluded. >> I found myself in a position of. genuinely not caring, but equally being. annoyed that they hadn't told me. >> Yeah. Why? That's a bad combination. >> You cannot be the producer of a show and. allow that to happen. >> But you can. I mean that and that's the. new media landscape we're in there, you. know, and it is having having had. various conversations with people, the. rules have absolutely changed on what. you can put on the things that I grew up.

understanding as a producer, the arcs. that I understood, the beats that I. understood, all of those things, the. Jeopardy that I understood, the stuff. that's in the DNA of of a of a. generation, three or four generations of. television producers has all gone. You. can do what you want. There is just a. different grammar to the thing. uh and. it's not just the people making it's the. people watching it. there is a different. grammar and they watch it differently. and they're not expecting those beats in. the same way that you know movies became. very very you know we understood exactly. you know the Robert McKe story structure.

we understand where we're going at all. times well that's happened to TV and. we've we've internalized all of it and. this generation of content creators they. do it completely differently now at the. moment what that means is we get this. documentary which I thought was I I. didn't enjoy no but it's but it's not. for will enjoy it there because I. >> Yeah. But I but I think what happens. next of course is there is a generation. of content creators who are like that. but who have creatively interesting. things to do with this new freedom that.

they have and then they'll bring new. forms about. And I I find that quite. interesting but we got to have five or. six years of just oh we're just going to. watch that are we? >> I agree with you. I I definitely agree. with you that they don't have to do it. in the same way and that they don't. really understand the rhythms of these. things and those rhythms are kind of not. dead but they're just part of a sort of. legacy system. >> Having said that, >> I do think that the lesson of a lot of. social media is that you have to. outstrip your last video. You have to do. whatever. And the fact that she doesn't. deliver here is going to annoy the fan.

base because she has constantly teased. and people don't like that. They want. you to even on the platforms in in in in. on Tik Tok on YouTube or whatever if you. constantly tease something you have to. deliver it. Yeah. And the fact that she. hasn't done that I think is really. interesting and the amazing that that. that was allowed to sort of occur I in. terms of what the life is because she. says you're going to see everything and. it's like wow is this it then it's. literally her saying oh I don't know am.

I posting I can't post I don't like the. reaction I'm getting to my posting you. are a complete slave to the algorithms. it's like death of a saleswoman it's. like it's like an you know it's like. death of a salesman okay it's like a. really messed up American dream thing. where, you know, she doesn't quite know. what to do, you know, and she just she. works for the man or the who, whatever. it is. But what's interesting about it. is that all of that is outside the show. Now, when you make these videos on. YouTube or Tik Tok or whatever, what.

they're brilliant at, these creators, is. they own all the drama. And you, that's. what we've seen in lots of this stuff. you know, the posts that go most viral. are the ones where you're talking about. it, but if it's happening outside the. show, off platform somewhere, somewhere. more relevant like Tik Tok, the. conversation about it is not contained. within the medium, you don't control it. >> I mean, they're I mean, the interesting. thing with all of these people is that. literally they've controlled the frame. They've [clears throat] set up the shot. And I I mean that physically and. emotionally is everything is in their. control, which is another reason, by the. way, they don't like to do formats.

because they need to have an. indispensability. And actually, with the. format, they go, "Well, sorry, couldn't. someone else do this?" But it is. absolutely. keeping themselves in that frame and. it's harder to do. It's not impossible. to do on something like Netflix, but. harder to do. And if you do it, it's. incredibly boring. >> Yeah. But the conversation when you're. you control the frame on Tik Tok or. YouTube is happening beneath it and it's. happening and you're tagged in it and. it's all it's all organically part of. where you're distributing it. Whereas. when you see it here, it's like, >> okay, you can't build any of this into,

you know, you're not second screening. it. there's there's nothing h so it just. seems to me a fundamental sort of. mismarriage and I think it is I think it. will just disappoint people and also. people just it doesn't feel native at. all it will and I think it's interesting. so we have not found the new Kardashians. in conclusion to this. >> but I I absolutely understand why. Netflix are doing it Netflix need to. bring that generation into Netflix I. sort of understand why Alex is doing it. because she does actually she sort of. understands as well that there are huge.

swaves of America who don't know who she. is. If you say her name, she's so used. to being so world famous within a. certain group. And as you say, anytime. she sort of posts anything, she get huge. amounts of feedback. But, you know, there'll be places where she goes where. everyone goes, I no, I'm so sorry, I. don't know that name. And so, I. understand that she wants a different. type of fame. And it is going to be, as. I say, having talked to a series of. producers, just working out what that. sweet spot is, that what the Netflixes. and Amazon Primes can get from people. who come from this different culture and.

what those people can get from the. Amazon Primes and Netflixes uh of this. world. And I I I do think that we're. going to see some terrible terrible um. television uh in on that in in that sort. of vein in the next few years, but we're. also going to see some amazing stuff. I. think I do think. >> we have yet familywise we have we have. yet to find. >> so where are the where are the new. Kardashians do we think where are they. coming from. >> we someone will get it right and they. may get it they'll most likely get it. right on one of the social media. platforms rather than I think on Netflix.

but that's hard to say because as you. say you need to then distribute it to. >> you know normies. >> the Furies have had a good go at it. >> yeah they have but equally they haven't. made a dent in anything you know they. haven't become sort. Well, >> but but if they can't do it because. they've got everything you need in every. generation of that family and every. offshoot of that family, something. mental is happening. >> Yeah. >> All the time. And and also like the. royal family. >> and and it feels Yeah. It feels like it. has an authenticity as well. You think, oh, that is that mental thing is.

actually happening in your family. But. yeah, I I think again it'll it'll be. what people prize more than anything is. authenticity. And it it it will come. from somewhere in the same way that you. know, we wouldn't have predicted the. Kardashians. There'll be a family out. there. Please, no one listen to the. podcast. Uh uh or if it is someone. listening to the podcast, at least come. and do an interview um about it when you. are as big as the Kardashians. But my. view is I think it's hard when you get. your family involved in these things. And I get it. And I get it when they. say, "No, but the thing is our kids want. to do it. You know, they like doing this.

stuff." Think, well, yeah, cuz they're. 12. >> If only there was a cautionary tale or. 90 of them just out there at any one. time. But uh yeah, so yeah, this the. search continues. But it's so. interesting that the family continues to. be the kind of yeah apogee of all this. stuff. >> But I would definitely um if listen you. absolutely do not have to watch this. documentary but if you're interested in. that sort of world and what's happening. to is I thought it was interesting. So. many YouTubers I see I get because I you.

know I really really really try and work. out the appeal of everything if it's. successful. you know, if if something is. big, you go, there's a reason this is. big. Uh, and one of the few areas, there. are some YouTubers I see and I thought, I cannot find this even the edge of the. carpet to start putting it up. I can't. work out why this is. Sometimes you see. them, you go, yeah, absolutely get why. you're watching this. >> But yeah, the the Alex Earl world, you're like, I just can't quite I can't. quite get a uh get a uh a take on it.

But um yeah, do watch it, but uh equally. don't watch it. [laughter]. [gasps]. Right, we will take a break now. I think. >> we will. And then, funny enough, I'm. going to talk about a good use of um. YouTubers when we talk about the the new. Grand Tour. [music]. >> This episode is brought to you by. Lloyds. Now, show business loves a club. >> I love all these sort of unofficial. groupings of people. There's two brat. packs that I'm a big fan of. >> There are two brat packs.

>> Yeah, there's two brat packs because. there's the movie brat pack. all of the. Jud Nelson and you know Rob Low and. Charlie Sheen and all those guys. >> everyone in the Breakfast Club. >> Yeah. And then there's also the brat. pack of those kind of turn of the '9s. novelists. Brettie Senellis, Jay. Mcernney, Donna Tart. >> And that's the thing, creatively it's. actually very very useful to hang out. with other people who are incredibly. talented because you drive each other on. to do things cuz a lot of the British. novelists in the 80s, Martin Amos, Julian Barnes, Ian Mchuan, they all used. to sort of go and have lunch and go and.

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you pay in £2,000 or more. >> [music]. >> Welcome back everyone. We're about to. talk about the Grand Tour. Talking of. grand tours, I'm off on tour this week. Book tour. Ticket still available at. Birmingham Symphony Hall. That's the. only one. Be lovely to see you there. I. think you're going on tour as well for. your book of columns. >> I am going on tour later in the month. and I'm going to be in lots of different. places. I'm going London, Oxford, Bath, Birmingham, Brighton. Oh, I'm doing it. with Jesse Armstrong in Brighton. I'm. very excited. And Edinburgh with Frankie.

Bole. Manchester, Liverpool. all dates. in late September. And. >> why not Sunderland? >> Uh well, I I'm sorry. I'm not. >> Why not Newport? >> Okay. >> Oh, I see. I see you hate Tibetan. >> I. >> I'm going I'm going to talk about my new. book, What's the Time to Be Alive? We're. going to have lots of fun. You can ask. any question. I can't promise I'll. answer it, but we will have an amusing. evening and lots of great chairs and I'm. really looking forward to it. >> That'll be a lot of fun. >> It will be fun. >> Talking of tours. >> Yes. >> The Grand Tour, which is back on Amazon.

Prime this week. So the grand tour as. you know it it was what came out of. Clarkson May and Hammond leaving Top. Gear. So they left Top Gear. They then. went to Amazon and made pretty much. exactly the same show but with a budget. about 15 times the size. They have now. also left Grand Tour. And so there is. this sort of succession going on. How do. you replace. >> Clarkson May and Hammond? We all know by. the way there's a side thing where Top. Gear is coming back on the BBC as well.

And again, there's that the succession. thing here. But on Amazon, they've got. this. It's a huge brand. It's a big deal. for Amazon. It's done huge business for. them. And Clarkson's Farm, of course, does huge business for them as well. So, how do you replace the three of them? >> It was their biggest ever premiere when. it came out. I think the trouble is we. never know with Amazon because they. don't tell you the numbers, but and. obviously it's nothing compared to we'll. come on to first as top. >> I'm I'm just looking at the budget for. the first episode and this next one. I. think I think it has worked for them. >> Yes, >> they seem they seem happy to have thrown. some money at at this. So they've.

replaced the three of them. And the. simplest thing to do, the obvious thing. to do, the 10 years ago thing to do is. let's get three celebrities in. [clears throat]. >> to do this, traditional celebrities, faces that people know. >> But that world has changed. So actually. they brought in three people and people. are going, "Oh, wow. They brought in. three unknowns to do this show.". >> And of course they're not unknowns. They. brought in James Englesman and Thomas. Holland from the Throttle House YouTube. channel and they've got like 3 million. They got 3 million followers, 3 million.

subscribers. So yeah, they're not. unknown. >> People know who they are. >> Unknown to you is not unknown. >> Exactly. And they have also brought in. and this is the master stroke of the. thing. France Francis Bourgeois who. became massively famous for his. incredibly enthusiastic Tik Toks about. steam trains and other trains. He's on. it. He used to be an automotive engineer. as well. And again, he is quite f he is. famous. I saw someone describe him as. like almost enthusiastic enthusiast. >> Yeah. I always get mixed up with.

France's bull from Maiden Chelsea. So in. my head I've always been confused about. why people loved him so much and now but. now contempt worthy of. >> Yeah. So what they've done, they brought. these three in and the first episode. went out this week and I say it's a. triumph. I think it's brilliant. It's so. good. It is absolute continuation grand. tour. The three of them are great in the. same way that Cox, May, and Hammond were. great. It looks a million dollars, and.

it cost a lot more than a million. dollars, but it looks it looks. incredible. The three of them, I think, are great. Francis Bourgeois is such a. stellar star. >> And this is the point. There's all these. people on YouTube. There's all these. people that people are throwing money at. and saying, "Oh, this person's" and you. you kind of see who they are and they're. boring. This guy is amazing. He's so. great. He's very genuine. He's a great. television. As a again, as a producer, I'm like, "H, we got one.". >> Yeah,

>> we finally I absolutely get this. I. absolutely understand how he's built his. empire because everyone who sees him. loves him and they've stuck him in this. format and he can do this too. He's not. kind of going, I know this is all about. me. He's like, "Oh, I understand what. what it is you need me to do." The three. of them act complete natural. Yeah, I. really agree. So firstly, this idea that. they've replaced them with unknowns, and. it's fascinating because they are. unknown to a certain demographic, but. they're not unknown to another. demographic. Secondly, the fact that. yeah, they haven't gone for a big name.

at all. And thirdly, it's an exact. replication of what they did with Top. Gear in the first place. And I think. that's the interesting thing though. Top. Gear in the first place, all three of. them really, Clarkson, May, to a lesser. extent, Hammond, were sort of motoring. journalists. They wrote columns for. magazines. The researchers got them in. I think John Bentley who who was I think. was started as a researcher on Top Gear. and became one of the producers, you. know, had just read a couple of. Clarkson's columns and go, "Oh, this. guy's got an interesting take on. things." And Richard Hammond was a was a. like a an an afternoon local radio DJ,

but then started doing a bit of work on. Men and Motors. So, when they started on. Top Gear, they were as unfamous as these. three. In fact, they were far less. famous than these three are now. What. they were is producers had seen people. who had written about cars for a very. long time, done radio shows for a long. time, done the graph, done the work, bought them in, and they absolutely. flew. And that's the same with these. people, you know, James and uh Thomas, by the way, Thomas Holland. >> Can we just. >> We have another Tom Holland.

>> What's going on? What's going on in. public life? >> So now we got Tom Holland, Tom Holland, Thomas Holland, and Tom Hollander. >> Yeah. >> Come on, guys. guys that absolute. moratorum on anyone entering public life. until one of those just decides to leave. it and go and live live on a desert. island. >> And this is the thing, you know, this is. where YouTube is going to come into its. own is in the same way that James May. and Jeremy Clarkson had years and years. of writing about cars. These two have. had years and years of talking about. cars and producing a show. They don't. just go on and say, "Oh, this is me. I.

wonder what I'm going to do today." They. do a job of journalism. people in. television that are able to watch that. go, "Oh, you really know what you're. talking about. You're incredibly. personable. Let's get you in. Let's. screen test you." And it turns out that. they can do the job. I've seen a couple. of reviews saying it's quite stilted the. banter and stuff like that. And you go. take a look at the first series of Tokyo. if well don't take a look at the first. series cuz cuz James May was not on the. first series. He was on the second. series. There's a guy called Jason Door. was was the original third amigo on. that. One of the most mental reactions.

to all of this that I've seen and it is. really prevalent in the same way that. the one is like I've never these people. are nobodyies. I've never heard of them. is they should not replace it. You. cannot replace it. It's like okay that's. interesting. So you're saying that a. format that makes unbelievable amounts. of money and does great business. What. is wrong with people Richard? What is. wrong with people that people think you. just shouldn't even try to replace it? Even the interviews they gave, you have. to speak to that tendency. Can I just. give you some of the It's so funny some.

of the quotes from them. Bless them. because they've had to do this. Yeah. From the new host. Right. Here we go. We've all had the same reactions that. the audience has to every part of this. process. Like, who would do that? What. an idiot. That's one of them. >> We've done our absolute best and the. critics will be critics and I hope that. we'll prove them wrong. And another have. a watch and if you don't like it, you're. well within your rights. I can't force. anyone to like anything. They've all had. to do this because you have to prostrate. before the bit of the fandom that. genuinely thinks a thing I liked should. die should die with the previous host.

and it should not return. >> I actually find that just completely so. mad. There should be no car program on. Amazon because I can't have my original. car program. It's really genuinely. ridiculous. But it's a huge thing out. there that people just feel like. >> it really is and I get it. And but also. it's is we've talked before about how we. keep putting older movie stars in things. despite a younger audience telling us. that they don't know who they are. anymore and that them that to them is. not a movie star in every anytime we put. a younger movie star in that audience. goes to see them and that's not by the.

way oh my god isn't it tough it's just. that's what happens generationally we. like our own stars and you know Clarkson. May and Hammond who've given full. backing to this I mean they are I mean. Hammond is my age and he is he is very. much the youngest. of the of the three of them, they've. done this for a really really really. long time. You see with them, you know, they they all appear in various points. of this series. They absolutely get that. this has to move on. They don't want to. do it anymore. They've all got other. things on. They're all, you know,

working very hard. I think they're very. proud of all the things that they've. achieved in that and [clears throat]. they would like it. >> to continue. >> Be nice to program about cars because. people like them. >> Yeah. I'll say one thing about Clarkson. This is I mean, my god, that man's got a. business brain. So they all turn up at. some point which is really really. lovely. May turns up and chats to them. Hammond does as well. Clarkson turns up. right at the beginning. It doesn't just. turn up. Uh they've worked out this. stickick and this will be Clarkson and. Andy Wilman his producer. They worked. out this shtick that the three new hosts.

are going to visit the big tent where. the grand tour was originally set where. they had that the live stuff. >> right to to ask if they're allowed to. use the tent. Okay. Say I wonder can. because we're about to do the grand. tour. Can we use this tent? So they walk. in and of course what is the grand tent. now is the farm shop at D diddly squat. So they so so they walk in, Clarkson is. there. He does a great job on it as. well, but he says, "Well, you can't. really use it because look, I've got a. butchers. I've got there's a sitting. area where you can get a coffee. Uh. there's an off license." He's.

essentially telling you all and all his. businesses. >> Yeah. And he goes, "Also, it'd be hard. to film here because it's really busy. It's like you wouldn't so much have an. audience, would you? You'd you'd have. customers." He does it in a way that. feels completely authentic where you. don't kind of think, "Oh, come on, man.". But absolutely, >> but ironic as well. It's hilarious. Hilarious. >> It's it's really really well done. So, I. think, you know, to to the three new. host to Francis and James and Thomas, cuz I've seen some of those interviews. and and everyone's on the defensive. It's like when Claudia was doing her. chat show and she was saying, "Well, it. might not work. I mean, I just I'll give.

it a go." You you sort of have to do. that. I would say to the three of them. now, I thought you were brilliant. Yeah. I thought genuinely you were the right. people for the job. If that is your. first episode, then you're gonna be. great. >> Yeah, they had really good chemistry. >> They have really good chemistry. You can. tell that James and Tom Holland III uh. have worked together before and Francis. is is is an amazing connection into. that. Now, it looks incredible. I'll say. that it's no it's no longer made by. Clarkson and Clarkson's company. It's no. longer owned by Clarkson and Clarkson's. company. >> It's uh now made by Studio Lambert who.

make all sorts, you know, make the. traitors and things like that. uh the. the production has been it's Phil Church. with Alex Wenton near Yemo an amazing. team amazing team of camera operators. but interestingly Andy Wilman who we've. spoken about our respect for before who. who's the sort of the creative brains. with Clarkson behind that whole empire. >> consulted. >> on this series and when you talk to. anyone who's on that team they just said. he's so brilliant yeah. >> you know like without ego but he just. gets how to tell a story he gets how to.

shoot something he gets you know how how. build a segment and he gets how to um. tell stories. But I I wanted to as I as. I was sitting there watching in in this. first episode, they got three supercars. and they're doing a race against a. fighter jet in the Mojave Desert and on. this enormous budget. And it made me. think about reinvention, how you. reinvent something. And I I think. they've successfully reinvented that. And Top Gear actually is probably the. greatest example of how to reinvent. something uh in our culture. It's.

extraordinarily done. It is nearly 50. years old now. Top Gear as a brand. 1977. was the very very first one. Uh and it. was a regional BBC Midlands production. So producer called Derek Smith said, "I. wonder if we should do a monthly program. about cars and you know roadside. assistance and you know how to fix your. car and stuff like that." And I' I've. got a it's called Top Gear. And BBC. Middler said, "Yeah, okay. Let's let's. do that." And it was presented by Angela. Ripen in the first series and a guy. called Tom Coin. And so I I did uh as I.

like to a deep dive into Tom Coin. Now. people in the Midlands, older listeners. in the Midlands might know Tom Coins. He. did the regional news for um a long. time. But Tom Coin, as I say, I'm. sitting there watching fighter jets in. the Mojave Desert and these incredible. supercars. Tom Coin is the very first. host of Top Gear. He started his career. in the early 1950s with Children's Hour. on the Light program. Oh, >> okay. That's where he began. So that's. where Top Gear began with somebody who. was on the light program just after the.

war on Children's Hour. So they did. that. The National BBC said, "Oh, actually, yes, I think I think we could. use a a motoring magazine." So they. brought Top Gear into um national. television, null Edmunds took over, all. sorts of other people, people like. William Woodard. Again, they would get. journalists to do it. Went and went and. went. It did. It always did pretty good. business. They brought Clarkson in in '. 88, I think, and he was the sort of. catalyst to change it a little bit up. from just a kind of magazine into.

something where where you think, "Oh, this is interesting. It's got a an. attitude and a personality, which was. sort of ahead of its time there." Now, the key thing that happened, and this is. where when you revamp something, this is. the thing to always think about. >> The BBC at the end of the '9s just the. ratings weren't quite where they needed. to be. So the BBC say, "Okay, we're. going to rest Top Gear." Okay. Now, all. of the Top Gear team immediately took. all of their expertise, all of their. presenters and went to Channel 5 and did.

a show called Fifth Gear. So they said, "We're going to do the same show and. we're going to do it on Channel 5. Everyone did that apart from two and. those were Jeremy Clarkson and Andy. Wilman." And they had done they did a. show in the ' 90s called Jeremy. Clarkson's Motor World where he'd gone. around the world and looked at car. culture and different. And I I think. this that was the catalyst for this. They said, "Actually, we're not going to. go and do that same show. We think the. show should be completely different.". They're the ones who came up with this. template, pitched Top Gear, got it made,

and that was sort of the beginning. So, it's the same brand, but they did they. superersized it in that incredible way. and turned it into what it is today. >> And for people who don't know, it was. like officially recognized as the the. world's most watched Factual TV show. They always told you it reached 350. million. It was in 212 territories. It's. It's so much bigger than you can. possibly imagine. A lot of people just. think Yeah. because they sold it via. Worldwide and it just became this. unbelievable thing. >> Yeah. It's made so much money for the. BBC. And at first Clarkson and Andy.

Wilman had a piece of that. They then. later didn't have a piece of it, but of. course they then had a piece of Grand. Tour, which now they don't have a piece. of. They've sold that to Amazon. I did. some back of the envelope maths and I. think that Wilman and Clarkson have made. certainly north of a hundred million. pounds from this franchise. Yeah. >> From this show that really began with a. man from Children's Hour in the 1950s. >> Clarkson wrote some funny articles for a. magazine and some and John Bentley.

thought, "Oh, it'd be interesting. Maybe. I'll chat to him and bought him in." And. then his friend from school, Andy. Wilman, uh came and also did some. on-screen stuff as well. uh Andy Wilman. And when the BBC got rid of it and. everyone went, "No, you can't get rid of. it. It has to say the same. It has to be. the same people. People like this show. We're going to keep doing it." They did. exactly that on Channel 5. And that. disappeared. But two of the people in it. went, "No, we can reinvent this. We can. do something different with this." They. did it. They did it amazingly. Made a. fortune for them. It's made a fortune. for the BBC. And now we find ourselves.

with the next generation of it. And I. think they pulled off the same trick. again, which is they understand how to. do it. They understand we're going to. get new people and we're going to get. the right new people, people who know. what they're talking about, people with. a bit of personality, and then we're. just going to shoot the hell out of it. and make it look incredible and serve an. audience that knows exactly what they. want and we know what it is they want. I. I just think what objects in 50 years. and this thing is just it's completely. transformed, but it's the same thing. It's it's the triggers bree of. television. So a fair play to everybody.

behind this and also good luck to those. three hosts as well. Don't listen to the. critics. >> Right. Finally, we are going to talk. about Galliano Gate. It's Yeah, this is. a big New York story that has it's. interesting because it's taken in the. worlds of fashion and art and New York. politics and the media. John Galliano, the fashion designer, was given a huge. retrospective exhibition effectively by. Anna Winter, who kind of made him as a. designer and who now presides over the.

Met Museum of Arts Costume Institute. If. you go to it, you go around, you know, you're about to go down the stairs into. it, her name is literally hu in stone. above. Yeah. Yeah. It's the Anna Winter, you know, >> that's very, but there's been a huge. backlash and it's now not happening. So. by way of background sort of who is John. Gallaliano, he was a brilliant designer. It's unquestionably a brilliant. brilliant fashion designer. He went to. Central St. Martins. He had his own. label. Then he went to two of the. biggest houses to Givveni and to Dior.

which is the sort of you know apex of. anything. and lately he's done other. things but there was an incident in 2015. where he was recorded saying terrible. anti-semitic things and it was all on. camera and it was a complete sort of. fall from everything since then he sort. of made gradual attempts at. rehabilitation and it's interesting. fashion has now sort of basically. accepted it he went to Maison Margiela. which is a very sort of avanguard label. and coming up I think later this year he.

there's some collaboration something. with Zara. So that's. >> so so so he's working he's working. again. He's making money again and all. that stuff. So in so inside the industry. there's a very well within fashion. >> Yeah. >> But I think this is quite interesting. because fashion is not the real world. but often fashion has been much more. powerful in the past. This Met exhibit. is always tied to the Met Gala and it. was going to be called John Galliano. Horizons. It's in spring 2027. And the.

Met Gala is always in the sort of first. Monday of May or whatever it is. And it. they always have a very big exhibition. to which it's tied. And they did say, you know, we'll we'll confront his. racist, his anti-Semitic behavior. But. remember, anything at the Costume. Institute is basically and Anna Winter, the she is the legendary editor of. Vogue, you know, who Miranda Priest in. the Devil Wears Prada is based on. She. became the sort of editor-inchief. She's. remains some sort of you know presiding. role at cond Nast. >> and she's she's used by the way to when.

she says something is in or out or okay. again or not okay again she's used to. that being accepted. >> yeah beyond she makes the weather yeah. she was actually you know. >> talking to various people about it a lot. of people say I mean she's a huge. fundraiser in democratic politics but. there is a very significant sort of. Trumpian element to her which is when. she decides something is going be then. it just has to be in reality it's just. going to have to bend around it. >> As soon as you have your name carved. into stone on a building there's a.

>> well you know maybe the Met Guard has. brought in $300 million or something or. some people say $500 million to the. Costume Institute over the years but. remember it's become this huge cultural. behemoth that that it never was before. It was a sort of party for New York. society and now it's become this. unbelievable thing. I'll get to more of. that. >> It's like the Super Bowl of fashion but. >> it's beyond it's ridiculous. She's she. has backed him Galliano for decades and. she says he's a creative genius who's. shown remorse. So when there was this. backlash from lots of different Jewish.

leaders she tried to have meetings with. them but it be there's all sorts of. things the backlash has become so. intense that the plan has collapsed and. he has sort of apologized. again and withdrawn and Anna Winter has. sort of supported him in that and said. it was courageous which is so her to. sort of let him own it and be a victim. as well maybe and not take any form of. responsibility for herself, you know, she loves tennis. She's famously a mega.

tennis fan. She's even after all of. this, which is a huge kind of. humiliation in lots of ways. She's. turned up at the US Open. But all of. these. >> can we do a tiny sidebar when we're. talking about the US Open. Yeah. Which. again this we talked about it like every. like everyone wants to get influencers. everywhere and and the US Open like. invited like a hundred influences just. to try and get a different audience and. I don't think it went brilliantly and. there's one point where Sabalinka as. well said I I have to leave the court. because the smell of dope is so. overpowering. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. >> And people saying you've never actually. watched any tents before. You have to be. quiet while it's happening. They. literally had no idea how to behave. >> But anyway, >> this slightly reminds me of one of those. BBC scandals that might be about. something else, but in 3 days time. automatically becomes about the director. general. This has now really become. about Anna Winter. By the way, the Met. Gala this coming year when this. exhibition would have been tied to it, it was turned out to be on Holocaust. Remembrance Day. Okay. So this is why so. this is a you know and in a city with so.

many kind of incredible Jewish cultural. donors um and being as heavily involved. in democratic politics as she is when. the issue of sort of rising anti. anti-semitism. >> she knows how much anguish that is. causing in those circles. This is such a. huge miscalculation to have to pull this. thing. And it's interesting because, you. know, maybe people in fashion still love. him or forgive or whatever, but it what. this makes clear, and the reason why. we're talking about this, cuz I think. it's quite interesting, is what people. in fashion think matters is so much less. important than it was in previous.

decades. What Anna Winter thinks matters. or she can get away with doesn't matter. so much anymore. And it's interesting. that neither seems to have seen this. coming. It's really kind of fascinating. She, as I say, she's, you know, she's. got this kind of trumping thing where. she drives things through and she's a. bulldozer and she's always been a. bulldozer. She's a bulldozer within cond. Nast and you can see still see her power. within the empire. It's interesting. >> the Vanity Fair who's got a very good. editor at the moment, Vanity Fair, Mark.

Jiuchi, who's kind of who's doing who's. really breathing life into it. It's very. difficult to do that into magazines. these days. But that Pruce. questionnaire, you know, their famous. Pruce questionnaire. >> this month it's John Galliano. It's like. did he choose that or was this imposed. upon him? >> Okay, >> people saying this was pushed through. the donors and the trustees of the Met. It's way too sensitive. You know, fashion's in a bubble. >> And it reminds me yet again of this kind. of sense with her that it's the end of. an era. As I said to you when she. started like being involved in Lauren. Sanchez's wedding, it's like you get.

gatekeep these awful people as as she. would regard it out of fashion for. decades. And now what you you allow they. hosted the Met Gala, Lauren Sanchez and. Jeff Bezos and she chooses the dresses. for the wedding. >> Talking to people who are involved like. know about the Met Gala is absolutely. wild talking about how influential she. is. Okay, say a table costs 350 grand. Say for some reason I have 350 grand and. I take a table. >> Yeah. I can't say, "Well, I'll have. Richard and Ingred because they've got. to see it. They'll find it historic.". No, no, no, no. She decide, you pay the.

350 grand. She decides who sits on your. table and you know what clothes they. wear. Like every single tiny thing is. hers. So, you don't get to invite. anyone. You can pay the money. >> And you're saying, I see, Anna, that you. said, I'm sitting next to Tom Holland. I. just I just need a little bit of. clarification about which one. >> Um, but I and and also who he's wearing. But there was this year there were these. rumors because of this that um maybe. Chanel weren't going to take tables, maybe LVMH. So the really big names that.

you need to take tables. It does raise a. lot of money. But what's interesting. about the Met Gala is that it's start. you can people the culture and clearly. lots of the you know artistic patrons of. the Met Museum are becoming kind of. grossed out by the spectacle that it's. sort of it feels like an event that's. eating the museum you know and you as I. say you know it's really interesting. that her p she hadn't she's. miscalculated this on a grand scale in a. very very public scale and it seems to.

me something that's really really speaks. to the sort of fashions of the times the. idea that a gatekeeper can say John. Galiano is having an exhibition because. I made him and I'm going to restore him. >> That way of doing things is so. nonauthentic. The idea of controlling. every little thing is becoming. non-authentic. >> but also becoming impossible. I mean we. we spoken before about context collapse. and it's exactly that which is everyone. exists everywhere all the time now. There there was a you know a time in. which Anna Winter could run the whole of.

fashion because nobody outside the world. of fashion knew what was going on or. cared what was going on and they cared. about their things. Now every you know. your Instagram feed is showing you the. MetGala even if you're not interested in. fashion. So it becomes something that. you have an opinion on and that's. happening in every single area. There's. absolute context collapse which is the. thing that you are trying to do is now. being seen by everybody and most of them. have no idea about the small nuances. inside it. So you can't you can't keep. these these. >> and they have dramatic reactions to it. that are often blowback against an.

institution. I mean you know it's sort. of crazy that this party has become as. well known as the museum or something. But all of that thing all of those. things that she represented gatekeeping. you know which she's now tried to move. the times and bring all these kind of. influences in. that all of the. gatekeeping that she represented is sort. of dead as we all everything we talk. about in this podcast is like the. barriers to entry are totally different. now people are doing things and the old. people who said yes you can do it you. can't that just seems so kind of.

anti-delivian and old and whatever and. it's not it's not fashionable ultimately. which is so funny that we're talking. she's so out of fashion you know this is. gatekeepers are out messy authenticity. is in and you know not to be able to. smell something on the wind, which is. what fashion is all about. Just having. something in the air and knowing that. what people might want just down the. line. >> It's so interesting because she's failed. on all of those fronts here. >> And I've said before that, you know, her.

kind of revolution is over and she. effectively lost because this world was. not the world that she sought to create. And this really I think it's just so. interesting how it brings it all in. And. I I mean I don't know what they'll do. What will they do instead? Some people. lots of people are saying, "Oh, they. should cancel the MetGala next year.". It's like, wow. Okay. Well, that. >> that's not going to happen. >> It's not. But but lots of clearly lots. of people gear. >> I agree. But lots of the people at the. museum are like, you know, are there. other ways we could do this? It's very. expensive to put on. Yeah. >> So even though it brings in a lot of. money, it's very expensive to put on.

One person seems to control it. Other. people could do it. Maybe someone else. should control it for a bit. But the. idea that, you know, it's, as I say, it's this kind of monster that's almost. consuming their institution. Yeah. [snorts]. >> They don't love. >> Yeah. It's like Beckham at Manchester. United. >> There came a point where you came a. point. >> There came a point. And uh who where is. our Sir Alex Ferguson at the Met? >> Where is someone with a shoe in their. hand? >> Yeah. Any recommendations this week? >> Well, we talked before about um James.

Marriott who's he's a great writer from. the times. He's got a great substack as. well and he wrote that fantastic essay. about the sort of end of reading and the. dawn of the post literate society and. he's turned it into a kind of book. He. writes so beautifully. It's really. funny. It's funny and it's called The. New Dark Ages. So that's by James. Merritt. That's out now. I think it's so. important. It is. >> horrifying what is happening. I mean, we. are measurably becoming more stupid and. stopping reading and we don't understand. basic things that we used to anymore.

And it's I mean it is there is from the. phones and. >> he he's a great writer. I love him. because he's sort of a man out of time. and and you sense his despair, but then. he's he also has a little bit of. optimism. And as I say, he's funny. So. >> absolutely. And you know, it's a short. book. >> Amazing. >> You love it when I say that. And anyway, so I recommend that. What about you? >> I recommend a book called Black Out Loud. by Jeff Bennett, which is a history of. black comedy in the United States of. America. And it's essentially sort of a. sequential thing that takes us from kind. of the the traveling minstrel shows, all. the way up to the the early black.

comedians who broke through to white. audiences. Then takes you up to people. like Red Fox, who was in Sanford and. Sun, funny enough, one of one of the. huge US sitcoms. then up to Richard. Prior and Bill Cosby and Eddie Murphy. and then leaves us where we are now. So, it's a really really biographically. fascinating, sociologically fascinating. thing about American black comedy and I. I couldn't recommend it enough. Jeff. Bennett, it's called there's just this. Black Out Loud. >> Black Out Loud it's called. Yeah. And. that's us done. I think our Q&A this. week uh was your questions for the new.

Spritly host. So, I chatted to Johannes. and Emma and Josh and um I put all your. questions to them about the new series. of Strictly. also lots of other things. um as well. Um so I hope you enjoy that. It was really really good fun. They're. they're they're a really fun combination. as well. And our bonus episode are um. the history of James Bond continues this. week. Thank you. Thank you again. Thank. you for your incredible feedback about. that. The amount of people who come up. to me in the street saying how much. they're loving that that Bond series. Uh. so it's uh that's if you want to become. a member restentertainment.com.

Um adfree listening or all that kind of. malarkey. As always, you do not have to. become a member, but if you do, there's. all sorts of goodies there. >> Other than that, let's see you on. Thursday. >> See you on Thursday. >> [music].