Who Can Still Win The Celebrity Traitors?

Hello and welcome to this Traitors. reaction episode of The Rest Is. Entertainment. I'm Marina Hyde. >> And I'm Richard Osman and you give your. introduction with a sigh there, Marina. I think this one is going to be a form. of therapy for us all. >> I think we all have some stuff we're. going to have to get off our chests. here. >> Yeah. Yeah, listen. >> through. >> Every episode is different. Every series. is different. Uh and this one, I mean, it certainly. is. I have thoughts, I bet you do. >> Oh, I've got 15 pieces of luggage to.

unpack here. Yeah, um. Should we begin, Richard, with Kenny. changing his vote to Joan? >> We Listen, we all know where we're. heading, okay? >> we all know. Yeah, but let's let's let's. >> Let's begin at the beginning, yes. We. confidently predicted in the last one, we said what that this absolutely. nothing to be gained in Kenny changing. his vote to Joan. So, he'll he'll. definitely be voting for Sharon. First. thing he does, votes for Joan. >> And this, Richard, sets in chain. a series of events that makes things.

considerably harder. for the Traitors. >> Yeah. In a in in a world in which, by. the way, this it should have been the. easiest Traitor win in in the history of. the franchise. >> mean, we don't have to unpack this for our. brilliant listeners. However, and and. viewers, had he banished Sharon, who was. good, >> Yeah. >> they would then have been able to murder. the leading liability, Michael, >> Yeah. >> and spared themselves a big part of a.

very, very damaging next day, which I. can only call Michael Sheen's house of. pain. It was [laughter]. It's an interesting decision. Should we. go back to that decision, then? >> Michael Sheen's house of blames, I'm going to call it. >> Yeah, there was a lot of blames. >> The Rest Is Entertainment is presented. by Octopus Energy, whose generation. business backs, builds, and manages. renewable energy projects. On screen, though, the practicalities of. sourcing power are slightly more. negotiable. >> Certainly in scripts. mean, my favorite.

energy source story, Back to the Future. Of course, they're supposed to have. plutonium. They don't have plutonium. So, they were like. >> in when they go back in time. >> go back, yeah. >> So, they need to get 1.21 gigawatts. >> Which they get from the lightning. strike, which they know is going to. happen at 10:04. Very, very clever. Monsters Inc. Now, you know where the. power source is on Monsters Inc. >> Everything in Monstropolis is powered by. children's screams, which is why they. need to sort of harvest them. >> Yeah. May not work in real life. >> On screen, keeping the lights on does.

seem to require an unnecessary amount of. drama. >> Now, Octopus Energy generation has. rather less need for a screenwriter. It. backs, builds, and manages renewable. energy projects with 5.7 gigawatts of. capacity across its portfolio. Enough to. power all the homes and businesses of. Birmingham, Leeds, and Manchester. combined. A slightly more conventional. approach to generating power. Yes. Well, the interesting thing about. the decision that. Joann decision changing his mind is. nobody questioned him about it at all.

And if they did, it wasn't in the edit. >> whether part of it was she was, as we. said, incredibly good as an advocate for. herself. >> Yeah. >> And I wonder whether there was a part of. him that was just thinking, "If I don't vote for after that, it's. going to look even worse." Or something. I don't even know what he was. >> don't know. No one else changed the. vote. Oh, no, someone else changed the. vote. But, you don't change Especially. with a double dagger. I mean, sorry, but. if one thing I've learned in life with a. double dagger, you don't change your. vote. I mean, that's uh it's common. sense, isn't it? >> Yeah. >> But, he did. >> Yeah, he did. And Joann left us. I have.

to say, this was a great booking for the. show. She would have done really well. out of this. Really enjoyed the bit. where she said she was premenstrual on. the little circle. Just [laughter]. And she remains, you know, an agent of. delight. >> Yeah. She She left as she played. >> Yeah. >> Iconically. >> Poor Sharon, though. She was like, "I. feel everyone's angry with me." That was. sort of all hard to watch. >> Yeah. Uh well, let's get to. >> I've seen harder things to watch as it. as it. >> Well, as it turned out, it was pretty. much the easiest thing to watch in the. whole episode. Now, now we look back at.

it. >> Yeah. >> Um so, they go up into the turret. They. have a murder to commit. Okay? So, there's only one job there. What's the. job? >> Murder Michael Sheen. >> Just just kill Michael. >> sorry. It's not complicated. I assume. you'll be murdering Michael Sheen. >> Three words. Just kill Michael. >> But it's a sub-optimal situation because. they still have Sharon in play and they. know she's good and that she's kind of. onto it because obviously if they'd got. rid of her then this would have been the. easiest thing in the world as I've just. said, but. >> Yeah, but they didn't. >> but they didn't. Once they had failed to. get rid of Sharon that way, even so.

given a choice between her and Michael, they should have gone for Michael. because he has far more clout than her. and that's the key thing. She was never. able to form a sufficient alliances or. friendships that her good theory, she. was a good player. >> But not even good, not even. great. >> And correct. >> Yeah, but she if you don't have the. clout, you don't have anything. >> It's worth it if you're running any. organization or even a country, say, to. occasionally remember. that somebody quietly sitting at the end. of the table might have the solution for. your business and it's always worth.

keeping your ears open for that. Sharon. is the only person here to have played a. half I would say Kenny as well. Sharon. is the only faithful to have played a. decent game. Sharon worked out that. perfume bottle. She worked out exactly. what happened. She worked out the thing. that Michael and James were able to use. the next day and she was not there to. enjoy the spoils of it, but she's the. one. Nobody else worked it out. Nobody. else had that bit of information. It was. all Sharon all the time, I felt. So, they murdered her.

I felt, I could be wrong, I felt they. did it because they felt she was. uncomfortable in the game. I thought it. was a mercy murder and I I thought it I. thought it was from kindness. I think it. was not game play at all. I think they. felt I don't think she wants to be here, which rather begs the question why. didn't Kenny just not change his vote. But I think between the three of them in. the turret, I wonder if that was the. discussion that was had cuz otherwise it. doesn't make a huge amount of sense. >> Yeah, well, I mean it definitely doesn't. make a huge amount of sense. Um, a line. was uttered in that turret by James. Acaster, "Life of a traitor, it's not.

for everyone.". >> [laughter]. >> I'm going to say. >> Anyway. >> That's his next tour. >> Hang on to that one. Um so anyway, we get to breakfast. Now. >> James Blunt makes the point that, you. know, you always hope that someone will. say at this point of the game, "Let's. just banish the most innocent.". >> Yeah. Because we keep banishing the. noisiest. Yeah, do always do the. opposite. >> Now, Romesh can see this that it's good, but he's been so much more circumspect. than James Blunt throughout this game. >> Yeah. >> for various reasons.

Um. >> Also very funny. >> Yeah. Can I just say, since this is a. safe space, I've got a crush on Romesh. I've I've. just I've I've I can't fight it any. longer. It's the tone. It's the tone. I. It's just the tone. It'll pass. It'll. pass, but I It's Since this is Since. everyone can just say whatever they. like, apparently, >> Yes. >> [laughter]. >> apparently, I'm going to say that. >> We're allowed to give our inner. monologue at all times now. >> Yeah, apparently that's it, so I'm just. saying that. >> Also with Romesh, always says the. funniest thing you could say in any. given situation.

>> Just brilliant. >> Yeah. Always makes any conversation. better than it just was. Yeah. >> Um and I like him. I'm here for it. As I. >> Yeah, listen, we absolutely We. understand that you've issued a come and. get me plea to Romesh. >> I have. Um. Okay, so James Blunt again says, "Oh, Kenny's got so little heat." You know, and Kenny is sort of puts puts it back. against him. Um. James Blunt and Michael are in a sort of. similar space at this point. >> Yes. I don't know what you would call. that space. >> No.

Um No, I don't either. >> The Sharon vacuum, maybe? >> Yeah, maybe. Romesh just says, um "My problem is that. yesterday I shot for the king and I. missed.". He does rightly observe that you have to. be suspicious of Maya if you're. suspicious of James Acaster. >> As we said, >> the narrow path to victory ran through. Romesh. He has done as best as he can in. quite random circumstances during this. episode. >> But the assumption there, of course, is. that Joe Lycett was still there and they. would kill Michael.

>> We'll come to his remaining options. But then Michael obviously begins his. day of just going all in on just you. know, he says to you know, to Myra tell. me why it's not you. She didn't love it. >> No. >> She has not loved. She did not love. having any heat on her. >> Yeah. He he. >> he says you and Kenny. >> Yes. Yeah, and later on he says James, you and Kenny. Uh yeah, Michael says. he's he's he was entering his vengeful. daddy era. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It was definitely an era. There was a.

whole era in that day. >> Yeah. I would call it a. Sorry, what did Sharon say yesterday. era? Yeah, but it's uh. you know, it has echoes. But okay. We'll deal with the day. as it was. You have three traitors there. out of eight. >> Yes. >> Okay, you got three traitors out of. eight. It is very very very very easy. for the traitors to win. It is very easy. for them to get rid of Michael. People. were already talking about Michael. Romesh said, "Oh, I swung for the king. and I missed." Yeah, right.

James, Myra, and Kenny can all vote for. the same person. because they're traitors. >> And someone else will join them. >> And they're allowed to team up. They get. Romesh to join them. They just turned. the round table into that discussion and. it's very very very. easily done. For whatever reason during. the day, that didn't happen. I suspect. cuz of James. I suspect cuz at no point. have they been able to really think. tactically and work tactically and work. as a team, which has made it a different. series. That's for sure. It's made it a. sort of slightly less.

technically game playish series. >> Yeah, I don't think you could call this. a master class. >> in. >> Yeah, it's been a lot of fun to watch. >> Yeah. >> But it but in in in a different way to. uh you know, oh, I wonder what are the. kind of what are the wheels within. wheels here? What are the bluffs and. double bluffs and trouble offs? There is. there's barely been a bluff, let alone. anything else. So, they have the day. >> We have a mission. >> In any normal traitors, this is the day. where the three traitors absolutely just. put the foot to the metal, get rid of.

Michael, then they've got a murder as. well, and the game is theirs. I mean, it. it's it could not be easier to win this. show as the traitors. >> Anyway, >> Yeah. >> we have a mission, severed heads and. screams. They've got to be like they had fun, yeah. I very much enjoyed Romesh being unable. to deal with how ridiculous it was. I. enjoyed James Blunt's Scottish ammo. >> Yes, >> [laughter]. >> for no reason. >> Haven't heard that one. And him kissing Ross. So, yeah. So, that all passed off.

>> Yeah. Can I say one interesting. observation about the mission? >> Yes. >> The previous mission was for £13,000. This one was for £5,000. Now, the thing you do in game shows. always is you just you increase the. prize money, ratchet up the tension. I. think this was like a little. release of pressure for everyone from. the producers. I think one of the key. things in this series is there's lots. we're not seeing. We know from from. >> Yes. >> from what people have said after the. show that there were tensions and there. were issues and there were there were. you know, various problems with people.

>> And. >> a million percent we don't want to see. that. Of course it because it's a it's. supposed to be fun and it's celebrities. But I think it means somewhere. >> pay to watch. >> I know, but. >> But they won't be exactly. >> But you know, you want people to come. into it next year, so you can't show it. But it means we we've slightly missed. something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Um but that mission was a. really lovely let's all just shall we. all just relax and be friends with each. other. >> mean that the viewers to some degree. don't understand or feel.

that there's something that they didn't. quite get. >> Yeah. I think there's an there's an. extra thing added to that, which is. there have been no tactics as well. >> Yes. >> So, between those two things, we're. like, "Hold on, what's but what's the. story? Where's this What What towards. the end Claudia says like legally you. have to on any television show, it would. you've been on quite a journey." And the. thing is they haven't really. It hasn't. been like a big HBO drama. It's been. like a sketch show. It's been a series. of of just discrete very funny events. happening one after the other, none of.

which have bear any relation to the. previous one. >> Because it lacks a strategic narrative. spine. >> Yeah. It has It hasn't had that. narrative. >> And by the way, it doesn't need it cuz. it's traitors and that's the whole point. of traitors is it is it becomes what the. players make it. >> It plays out differently every time and. that's what's cool about it. >> But but just a couple of times in this. episode which I enjoyed very much and. I'm enjoying the series very much. I was. thinking, "Oh my god, I can't wait for. the civilian one where they where they. all actually want to win.". >> So, we go back to the castle. and then Romesh and Bash. Now, this I.

feel is his his option. >> Yeah. >> Michael's the king. Um Jester is James. Blunt and the queen is Mya who they. brilliantly describe as gliding. >> Yes, an Olympic-level glider. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And by the way, if you're traitors and. you're anywhere close to that. conversation, you think, "Well, this is. perfect. I'm. If I'm Mya, I'm very happy to be the. queen because if you're getting rid of. the king first, Michael, and then the. jester James Blunt, we we now have the. numbers to win.".

>> Yeah. >> You could know for a fact I'm a traitor. It's not It's not going to help you cuz. there's only going to be five of us left. and three of us are traitors. >> Yeah. We don't know if they're having. the the conversation because sometimes. this is too much of the workings of the. game and they might just take it out cuz. it's less satisfying to watch, but. I think that they should at least have. considered the possibility not the. possibility the probability that there. is a woman and there as there are only. two women left, it might be worth. looking at one or both of those two. >> I don't know. I would say if I was in. there with two traitors in the first. place, could the producers have made two.

men traitors? Yes, definitely Richard E. Grant plus somebody. You can do You. could do that in this day and age. Hannah then became a traitor, went away. So, everything else is not producer's. choice. Everything else is recruitment. So, I think it's. very, very easy for them not to on the. balance of probabilities, yes, there. will probably be a woman. I think. there's definitely a chance that there. wouldn't be a woman. >> There's a chance, but they have so. little else to go on that I would have. worked I would at least try and develop. that theory. >> Well, it turns out they do have a lot to. go on. It's just everything that Sharon. said.

>> Yeah. That coupled with the the whole. big dog thing, they should really have. alighted on Mya. But the axis of. suspicion continues to sort of swing. round periodically towards Michael. >> Yeah, which A it should do and B I mean. for the traitors, [clears throat] I. mean, okay. I mean, genuinely. easy, easy, easy win here. All it takes. is for people who really want to play. this game and play it playing it like. civilians. >> Yeah. >> On a day like today, Michael would have. been. banished. What? >> Yeah. >> He would have been murdered the night.

before. But if he if he hadn't been if. for whatever reason, uh because they felt that, you know, they wanted to, you know, give Sharon. her send-off, they'll they'll just, you. know, lose Sharon. If for whatever. reason, if Michael's still there, you. lose Michael. >> Michael who has spent all day. bringing up a lot of different people. >> Yeah. >> But the last thing we see before they. get to the round table, really, is. Michael saying um okay, James Acaster, Kenny, and Myatt. >> Mhm. >> Again, they should not have permitted.

this day to have occurred. They should. not have allowed this to occur. >> be there because Michael carries a lot. of weight and as soo- as sooner or. later, he is going to be right cuz. because there's so few people left. >> Yes. >> It is impossible to continue being wrong. at any length. So, at some point, smart people are. going to work out at least one of your. identities. You know, they just are Even. James Blunt was working it out. >> Oh, yeah. >> That you know, that's that's what the. numbers are telling us. So, the heat was on them. However, absolutely heat that could have and.

should have been. deflected. >> Yes. >> by traitors who are really in it to win. it. I have a theory on that later as. well. But um should we talk about it. after this break? >> We'll talk after the break. >> [music]. >> This episode is brought to you by our. friends at Lloyd's. >> Now, let's talk about movie con artists. Who are your absolute favorites?

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>> [music]. >> Welcome back, everybody. >> And welcome back, everyone. >> Right. The round table. >> go. >> Um it begins with Kenny saying, "We need. to do everybody." Um if they do do that, we don't see it. >> They very quickly forgot to do everyone. Michael Sheen, very smart move, I think, says, "Do me. first.". >> yeah. Um. >> Which, by the way, if I was somebody. else, I'd go, "No, no, no. I Let's start. with You don't tell us who who to do.

first." That was a very smart move from. Michael, because no no one went up. against him as well, but gets his bits. out of the way first, lets him hear. what the information is out there, who's. up against him, just it contextualizes. everything that he wants to do in that. round table. >> We do know that there That's so worth. reme- remembering always is that there. is a sort of competitive advantage to. not being the last one talked about. They slightly. >> The Hannah Fry. >> throughout the series, yeah. And And all. the different series, if you were the. last one that everyone suddenly became.

obsessed with, they People can become. quite, you know, persuaded by that at. the last minute. >> Yes, cuz by then they're like, "I just I. just want to get out of this room." Who. was Who did you just say that? Okay, boss. Yeah, yeah, okay. >> Um. He He did say, um "I don't know why I'm. still here." Great to see the first of. those in the wild in the series. Um and then I I really enjoyed the. the thing between Romesh and and James. Blunt where.

Romesh was saying, you know, I know. we're different people and I was. thinking, "Mhm.". Cuz you've gone for people and you've. been wrong and I've done that myself, Romesh was saying, but then you've just. like regrouped immediately. >> I think it's I think it's a class thing. >> I think it's what. >> You think? >> Yeah. I think it's what passes in James. Blunt's culture. Yeah, I think that that. is a cultural thing. >> Yes, I think it is. Yeah, of course I. was wrong, but who's to say I'll be. wrong this time? Give it another go. Yeah. >> Oh, let he does sort of comes into his. own though in fairness to James Blunt.

now. >> Um you know, maybe it's an even a. stopped clock tells the right time twice. a day thing, but he has cuz he's been. wrong so so much before, but he starts. saying, "It's James Acaster. It's Myra. The quiet traitors will win." Yeah, here's something you haven't banked on. Um. >> [laughter]. >> and then Michael gets in on Myra and. James Acaster. Myra, she lost a little of her cool with. the the way she was defensive about the. library. >> Yeah, yeah. >> It's difficult not to. Um. >> Kenny did it very well. Kenny every time.

said, "Yeah, yeah, it's me and Myra and. James. Yeah, and yeah, yeah, yeah, everyone else died, yeah, I guess apart. from us.". >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But Myra is right and it but it's. an absurdity to say it must have. happened at the end of the evening. because it could have happened on the. task. It could have happened at anywhere. across that whole day. Uh but. Sharon got it right. She was absolutely. right about what happened and that's the. theory that seemed to be co-opted by the. end of the episode, but either way, that's the theory that is being.

heavily. followed here. >> Well, sometimes if a guy says an idea, you're like, "Oh, that's a good idea.". Especially if if a woman has said it. before. >> See, I think my my. >> in a lot of meetings like that. You said. the idea and no one reacts and then it's. repeated. >> I have a theory which is sometimes if a. guy says an idea. that even if a woman has said it before, people are like, "The guy just said it." And everyone was. like, "Oh my god, that's That's how I. see it sometimes." how say, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.". Yeah. Yeah. [laughter]. But uh yes, there was a a case of that.

going on here for sure. >> happens next, Richard, cuz I I in many. ways I'm still processing it. >> Yes, what happens here is. James Acaster. throughout this whole process has been. looking for an exit door. >> Mhm. >> Okay? Just looking for an exit door. which. where he doesn't blow up the whole show. especially, where he doesn't just quit. on the whole thing, but he's been. waiting at all moments for just that You. know, like at a party where you there's. suddenly a gap between you and the door.

You think, "I could actually just go. now.". >> Mhm. >> And no one's going to see me No one's. going to see me cuz I could just leave. >> a French exit, though, I will say. >> Oh no, it's. >> I've I've seen some exits, and this is. not French. >> You cannot do a French exit on this show. because peop- people would notice. So, James suddenly sees this thing cuz by. the way, this question, it wasn't super. dogged. It was We're talking about. everyone. >> Yeah. >> Okay? We did Michael, we've done this, we're going to talk about the library. thing, uh and then whether it's Michael. or James and it just saying, "What Yeah, so who was the last out there? Who was.

Who was the last one in there?" And they. go, "Well, so I guess that So, if Ross. was in there and it was this thing, Sharon's theory, um then you were the. last person in. So, James, like it it. could have been you." Like we've had. that sort of allegation thrown around. round tables all the way through this. series Every single series there's ever. been. You always You just say, "So, perhaps it could have been you." James. absolutely goes, "Ah, I have my exit." And he just go, "I. cannot believe you worked it out." He. hasn't worked it out. He's just saying.

>> Shush. [laughter]. >> He's just saying. >> He just said, "Sounds feasible.". >> He's saying, "Theoretically, this is the. thing that might have happened." And. before we move on to bash, why don't we. just say, "So, James, you know, it it. might have been you." And so, you listen. to James go, "I get it. Yeah, absolutely. might have been me. I I I just say what. Myra says, which is it could have. happened. anywhere at any point." And by the way, Michael, today. you were really going in strong. I mean, very, very strong. Almost as if there. are three traitors left. Uh and if you.

get one more faithful out, that's it. You've won the game. It feels to me like. you're almost sprinting for the line. You are throwing this. >> Yeah. >> at everybody. And you By the way, you're. throwing it at all the most obvious. faithfuls. That's what you're doing. today. Very clever. Whether James is. doing it with you, I don't know. But. that is what you are doing. So, you say. that and you go, "Okay, we'll move on to. the next person." A little bit of shade. back on Michael, but certainly comes off. you. But But James, because he's wanted. to do this from the beginning, and.

absolutely. fair enough. You have to play the game. you want to play it. You know, you you. He just went. "Oh my god, it's like at the end of. Scooby-Doo that someone just pulled his. mask off." He could But they haven't. >> And yeah, [laughter] I I I would have. got away with it. You Yeah, you would. have got away with it. >> The pesky kids are useless. >> If it wasn't for your pesky self. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, yeah, I think he just took the. opportunity. I I think he he had found a. way to play the game as a traitor. And. and I enjoyed watching him. I think he. didn't want to go into that end game. He. didn't want to go into the bit where.

you're really going to have to look. people in the eye, face-to-face, and. just say, "Yes, it was me." And I think. he thought, "If I go here and now, >> then at least Maya and Kenny have a. chance.". >> But doing what he did, which is. doing what this is a very, very I mean, he gave away so much more than had he. been obviously just off. He or or. attempted to Yeah. He He Because when. you're just standing in that circle, you.

just get to say, "I've had a lovely. time." And then pay out it. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> is paid out quite slowly that you were a. faithful or a traitor. He described the whole inner life of it. all. He was like, "I was made a traitor. without wanting to be. I had a unique. experience on this that no one's had. before. I wanted to do it and be. logical." He If you can't do any of this. in the circle, you just got to say it. and leave. So, he bent the normal. conventions of the game very. significantly by doing this. >> here's my thought. I love James Acaster.

I've said before, I think he's the. funniest comedian of the last 30 years. I think he's brilliant, and I think he. does bend the conventions of everything. he does. Um and he did it here, and that's I get. it. I absolutely get it. But, as as. gameplay, it's I mean, it's kind of it's. a it's a it's a hand grenade, for sure, but it's not. it's not helping us through the drama of. the show. I think it's interesting as a. character study. I I would absolutely. defend his right to do it. For the show,

again, so yeah, the faithful the. faithful. they have got rid of three traitors. Two of them literally told them they. were a traitor, okay? So, really they've. got rid of one traitor, and that was. Hannah Fry. >> Yeah. >> Uh who, you know, it's it's it seemed. fairly obvious. At. the end of that round table, they're. sort of kind of going, "Well, that's. what I thought, because I knew the. theory was this." You go, "No, it was a. one theory of many." The first it was. Sharon the series. One theory of many. You didn't know for sure. We would have. moved on to other people, and James just.

said, "I'm a traitor." I mean, that's. not traitor hunting. That's just that's. that's It's. >> No. >> Every series is different, that's for. sure. Uh and the question now is, do we have an absolute barnstormer of a. final episode because of what just. happened, or do we have a slow crumble of a final. episode? I think there's an opportunity. we still have a barnstormer of a final. episode, and I'm glad that this series. is different to other series, because it. has to be. I'm going to talk a little.

just at the end about what the producers. will do for next series, just to make. sure the next one isn't exactly like. this one. >> Well, they've got a final of six, which. is interesting. >> traitors. >> Yeah. I enjoyed the little vignette at. the end with Michael and Meryl. >> A absolute cap tip to the producers. there, because they're watching all this. live, and they work out, cuz they. soon as when they they work out who goes. back home in order, and they can always. do it in whatever whatever order they. want, and they do it in the order that.

Michael and Mya are left alone at the. end probably for 15-20 minutes with. somebody just saying, "Yes, the car. Sorry, guys, the car still just It's. going to be about another 10 minutes. Sorry. Is that all Is that all right? We're still But we're still rolling.". Just to let them stew with each other. And it was um that was absolute textbook. classic Traitors. That's what That's. what's given me hope for this uh this. next episode. >> once they once James Acaster taken away, I mean, whether or not he would have. been I don't think he would have. actually been banished, by the way. Um.

>> No, I don't. >> But once he'd taken that away and just. taken them off the possibility of that. particular cliffhanger, they needed a. really good dramatic moment that wasn't. just like, "Hey, it's the final. tomorrow." You know, it's not like you need to hook people. back in for this cuz they're going to be. here. But I thought that they did it. really well, that scene with Michael and. Mya. >> And they'd worked that out on the fly as. well. You know, they absolutely knew. what the story was. They could see in. their head how that was going to edit. together, and they got, "This is going. to be a brilliant ending.". >> It was so brilliantly awkward. Uh you're.

you're just on that James thing. I know. I I. All I want to say is he has been. truthful all the way through, which is. he came on this statistically he's got. not going to be made a traitor. He's. told the producers, "I definitely, definitely don't want to be made one.". He accidentally becomes one. And I I. don't know how else you play it. If. that's what your heart is really telling. you, I don't know how else you play it. And the further and further he got, you. could tell he did not want to be in that. final episode. Like around the thing. with kind of, you know, red flames and green flames and lying to. people's faces. He just did not want to.

do it. I get it. He could probably sense. that he probably wasn't going to be. voted out unless, you know, unless unless you'd done terribly. Yeah. >> as an in an ode to another traitor's uh. best work. He's He'd come on the show by. mis- called Traitors by mistake. >> Yes. >> Hadn't he? >> [laughter]. >> Yes, yeah. But uh no, but you know, you. >> I get it. You can't You don't know how. it will affect you and whatever, and I. understand that. >> But in terms of the audience experience. >> As producers, you're thinking.

>> of the audience. >> As producers, you're thinking, "Ah, that's annoying. That's not what That's. not how we would have chosen. this to go." But again, like Traitors so. often is is a incredible kind of insight. into. character. >> Yeah. >> You know? So, we have a final episode. We leave at. the end of that episode, Michael and. Meryl both put in cars, Michael driven. back to the hotel, Meryl driven round in. a circle, and then back to the turret. And I would say this, Meryl and Kenny, they're up in the turret. There are five.

There's two of them. There's five. faithfuls Bash, Leanne, Romesh, James B, and Michael. They. don't have James with them anymore, so. they can finally traitor. I think. they're going to have to turret like. they've never turreted before, right? But what What's the only thing that they. can do? >> Kill Michael. >> I think they have to Whether they they. have to kill Michael. It's not a point. where you go, "Oh, but is it too. obvious?" No, it's a revenge killing. >> Yeah. >> Michael Michael the hero found our guy. >> Yeah. >> Uh brackets James told them. >> Yeah.

>> Uh. and so we're going to kill him as. revenge. And then you go in tomorrow. >> And he he mentioned everyone that died. on that day. >> He really did. And by the way, they. they've just got a traitor as well, so. it's it's like Michael did his job, he. got the traitor. The other traitors are. are like, "If you send one of us to the. to the hospital, we send one of yours to. the morgue.". And that's And that's what they did. >> Michael, I don't know what to say. >> Yeah, because. >> other than they have faltered massively. in the final stages of the game, having. actually given it was a as we always. said, like an a difficult a ship that.

pulled in different directions or. whatever the metaphor would be. Nonetheless, >> Yeah, ship that pulled in different. directions. >> of those ones. Um but it. to to change the vote and then to not. murder Michael before These are. >> Yeah. >> the business end of the game, making. those decisions has not been great. So, if they don't murder him this time, I. don't know what to say. >> Yeah. I think Michael would Michael. would be furious if he doesn't get. murdered. He'd be like, "What?". >> Only Michael believes it now. Michael. believes he can win now. >> No, he definitely does. And my favorite.

moment of Michael on this was when that. someone called him the father of the. table. >> Yeah. >> And you could see him going, "I I. suppose Am I the father of the table? Like. >> to me. >> Like I guess like Nye Bevan was the. father of the NHS, I guess. >> It it does Yeah. >> Maybe. I saw someone on House of Games. when I was up we were doing our handover. thing and somebody just had a a baby. called Nye and they they asked Michael. to do. as Nye Bevan a thing to them say. congratulations. It was so brilliant. It. was so brilliant. But I the being the. father of the table, that's. I think would be Michael's dream. You.

have to get rid of him. If you don't If. you do get rid of him, then you've got. Maya and Kenny versus Bash and Romesh. and James B. Maya. still in trouble a little bit. >> Yeah. >> There's ways and means that her and. Kenny. >> I think she's in quite a bit. >> There is If you were Kenny, >> Mhm. >> you can win this game in a heartbeat. now. Whether he chooses to, I don't know. I. don't think he will. I think that he. will choose to try and protect Maya. That's my sense. If he didn't want to do. that, then he has. a very very simple route through. We all.

get rid of Maya. Everyone's happy. No. one knows if you know, at that point. who's a traitor, who's not. >> Because just to be clear, they no longer. say when they depart. >> Probably get rid of James B or maybe. Leanne. And then the three remainders, you know, say him, Bash and Romesh, they. just go I think I think we're all. faithful. Aren't we Are we happy Are we. happy with that? I think we've got rid. of We've got rid of a lot of traitors. A. lot of people told us they were traitors. and we we agreed. Uh So Kenny has a very. simple route through. With Maya, it's.

slightly harder because if James and. Bash are going to go for Maya, Kenny and Maya of course will have to go. for one person. I would say choose. Leanne possibly or choose James Blunt. Choose Choose one of those two. Don't. choose Romesh or Bash, I don't think. Uh. they then have to persuade Romesh or. Bash. to join with them, which might be. difficult, I think. But Kenny, if he wants to win, just. absolutely joins the Maya bandwagon, joins with that, and then you pick off.

Leanne or James. >> Well, tell us about your theory about the next. series then and the producers. >> Uh I I. that. with the two series I mean this is so. successful this series. It's been crazy. The numbers are still huge. People are. absolutely loving it. We're talking. We're talking pure gameplay. You. understand that there's like bits where. as as students of the game there's. sometimes you're like oh I can't we. can't quite get this is not quite. getting that kind of traction that you. want it to get in gameplay terms. It's. certainly getting in entertainment. terms. So I think the next series they.

will look for game players. And they'll. really look for game players. I sport Yeah, I I know they. >> It's my dream that Christian Horner. should go on this show and I'm just. going to keep saying it cuz I want it to. happen. >> It's quite hard to get people from sport. sometimes to go on things cuz if if it's. not the natural world also some of them. are actually working. >> You and I had a very lengthy exchange. about which tennis stars we thought. should. >> Yes, I would love I would love McEnroe. >> On WhatsApp. Yeah, I mean there's a lot. of. >> And and you said you prefer Henman. >> Henman would be good.

>> He would be good actually. >> Murray would be amazing. I so want that. >> Either Murray. >> What about Navratilova? I mean there's. lots of different people. >> Yeah, that's quite Yeah, this Yeah, you. need. >> from sport. >> Yeah, people from sport or with with. with that sort of back up but you need. you want that. You two or just only two. or three. That's all you need just a. couple of game players to be in there. Bella was the big game player on this. one and was banished very very early. Uh. so it's. you can never do the perfect casting. because people will be kicked out but I.

that is the thing they will be looking. for is people who want to absolutely. explore the full limits of what it is to. play that game. And you you're always as. a as a producer like a tennis ball being. knocked back in the direction you were. last hit. Always. You're always reacting. to the last thing that happened. Um and. uh. I think that's the direction that um. that they were going. But so tomorrow. doing a live stream where it's I am not. here because I'm up in Manchester with.

the Luke Littler show but you're joined. by friend of the podcast Tim Henks who. has produced more reality shows than. pretty much anyone else in the world so. I can't wait to hear his view. >> It would be really fun. Yeah. >> But I just. >> immediately afterwards live. >> Prediction, I think. if Kenny. >> Kenny could do it, I think. But. >> but I think he will try and support. Maya, and I think that will be difficult. >> Yeah. >> for him. But it's I think it's hard for. them to catch Kenny. >> It is hard for them to catch Kenny. I. think he is he's the despite mistakes.

now, because he he hasn't been flawless, but he could still do it. >> I could absolutely see a final three of. Romesh. >> Yeah. >> Kenny plus A N Other all just shaking. hands and saying, "I think we've got it. here." Even though they'll remember the. Alan Carr thing, which might that might. just nudge them into doing one extra. um banishment, but uh. yeah, God, if I was if I was Kenny's. been brilliant. >> Yes, he has. He has he. 100% has just been sort of minted as a.

kind of mainstream star now. >> Yeah. Uh Maya, I feel sorry for because. again this thing of. this whole thing was knocked off the. rails very early on by two very, very. easy evictions. >> Yeah. >> Uh and it just meant that the faithful. have have not ever quite played the game. properly and so have not accused Maya. earlier on. If she'd been accused. earlier on a couple of times, she would. now be plain sailing. >> I agree. >> It's the fact that at no point has. anyone mentioned her name, and that in. itself has become the suspicion against. her, and that's the thing that that that.

might doom her. I'm excited to see it. though. >> I'm so excited to see it. All right. >> And I can't wait to hear your reaction. as well. >> I can't I I just can't wait. All right, everybody. Thank you so much. See you. tomorrow. >> I'll see you tomorrow.