When Hollywood Gets The Name Wrong

For once we're not talking to Steven. Spielberg or Tom Hanks. We're actually. >> celebrity. We are We are talking to each. other. >> Just little old us. >> Oh, yeah. Well, missed it. >> I've missed it as well. It's quite nice. to be back, isn't it? >> Yes, it is very nice to be back. You. going to hit me with a question? >> Yeah, I certainly am. And it is from. Jane Burrows. Thank you, Jane. She says, "I've seen a few social media videos in. recent past showing table reads from. Shrinking to Game of Thrones. Can you. tell me what's their purpose? Who are. they for? When do they happen in the timeline of a. production? And would actors deliver. their lines in character?" Jane's.

question goes on for some. while longer. There's lots of smaller. questions inside it, but what I think we. can we can talk about the world of of. table reads. >> She ends saying that it looks They do. look super awkward. Well, they look. awkward because obviously that is not. the finished product. And in many cases. that's the first I'll get onto this the. first time those actors are seeing the. scripts. I think with particularly with. stuff like Game of Thrones, I know which. one you're talking about. You're talking. about like the final episodes where they. just got where the actors are. discovering effectively in real time. what happens to their characters and who.

who wins the Game of Thrones. The Rest. Is Entertainment is presented by Octopus. Energy. Now, one of the stranger signs. of status in show business is being very. very hard to reach. >> Exactly. You get to a certain level in. the business where you don't want anyone. to talk to you at all. There are some. people who are notoriously difficult to. get hold of. Like Christopher Nolan, for. example, is famously almost completely. It doesn't even have a mobile phone. I. mean, you literally cannot get hold of. Christopher Nolan. He said of course he. does. He's got a sneaky little mobile, hasn't he? >> Yeah. >> He's on WhatsApp groups, but he he.

doesn't want you to know that. >> Should I tell you who's easy to get hold. of? >> Who? >> Octopus Energy. >> Yes. >> So, Octopus Energy, if. you know the score when one of your. service providers writes to you, you've. got a question for them or you're. disputing something, you reply and it. immediately says, "You cannot reply to. this email." With Octopus Energy, any. email they send you, you can reply to. and it will go to your dedicated team. Which to me feels like one of the. greatest advancements I've heard of the. last 30 or 40 years. You can actually.

reply to people. >> it be possible to contact the people I'm. paying my money to? Well, with Octopus. Energy you can reply directly to your. own dedicated small team. >> I mean, that's amazing, right? >> And it can be very emotional. You can. see people suddenly thinking, "Oh my. gosh, hang on. I'm dead. >> [laughter]. >> Okay." It's been a decade of their life. or something. Um but they are they are. such a key part of the process. They do. happen at different times, by the way. So, it's not all the same. Normally, they would happen at. the sort of very end of pre-production. of something.

So, it and it isn't ever the final. script. That's part of the point of the. table read. But, if you're doing a. series, um it will be the end of. pre-production of that episode, but. you're probably filming one of the. others. Although, funny enough, last week, I've got a thing in. development, and oh my god, that. I went to a meeting, and they told me. that they were going to do it um. something internally. And then they. said, "Oh, well, actually, it was really. interesting when we with the script the. last draft that I gave them." And then. they said, "Yeah, it was interesting. what. what people like that in the sort of. when we did the sort of table reading.".

And I was thinking, "Oh my god, I'm so. glad I didn't know that this was going. to be read out anyway." But, almost. people who. >> They've done a table read already? >> Yeah, not not with actors. Not with. actors, but amongst And I thought I I. don't even want to ask about this. because I just that feels excruciating. to me at the moment, so I don't want to. think about it. >> had it in the office, and done a table. read just amongst themselves. Oh my god. >> Uh anyway. Anyway, but that's not. In general, what you're doing. >> Without you there. >> But, I knew that they were going to be. doing that because they were going to. they were going to feed other people who. are not like the directors and actors.

involved in this were going to sort of. they did ask the general group, and it's. and it's very very helpful because. people who've never seen haven't had. eyes on it at all, cuz it you do get in. the weeds quite quickly if you're even. if you're the executive, I suppose, in. charge of things. It was really. interesting, but I did think, "I'm so. glad I didn't know that was happening. till. >> Can we explain what a table read is to. people? >> Yes. Table read is you get the the. script of an episode or I suppose of a. film. Everyone is sitting down. It's. It's a conference table or you know. an oblong of tables. You've got all the. actors there. You've got all the heads.

of departments. >> And by heads of departments that means. the you know the head of the sets, the. head of makeup, the head of costume, just. >> lighting, anyone who's going to have to. do SFX, anyone who's going to have to do. anything for this. You've got the. writer. In the my experience of doing. it, you've got like the showrunner. sitting there and if it's your episode, you're sitting next to them at the head. of the table. It's a big thing with. American money that's being filmed over. here then the very big executives from. America will fly over and be sitting in. the room as well on chairs behind the. big table. So everyone it's a big and.

important thing. Somebody reads the. state actors all do their own roles. In. the answer to your question, do they do. it in character? I would say they do it. it's it's varying. They do it in I would. say 50%. They put 50%. They're seeing it. often they're seeing it for the first. time or they've had chats with the. director or chats with the. showrunner about where they're going, you know, but they haven't actually seen. the thing that's not the shooting script. because you'll make a lot of adaptations. from how the table read goes. I've done them always for comedy so that.

can be you know something that you. thought was your great joke doesn't get. a line in the laugh in the room and. something you didn't realize was a joke. gets a really big laugh and you're like. oh okay. that's interesting. I I saw someone from. Friends a few I can't remember when I. wrote this someone who worked on Friends. saying. by the end of that if the actors didn't. like your joke they would just. absolutely ruin it by mis delivering it. in the in the table read so that it. would then get killed. Some actors just. literally just read the lines up in an. almost in a monotone and they don't put.

everything into it. Others go quite big. but no one goes as big as you'd possibly. go on set. It's much it's not like that. at all. >> You want to hold something back. >> Someone reads the stage directions. There's a person at the table read whose. job is just to read every stage. direction. But. for me it's really tempting to kind of. you want to mark up your script if. you're the writer. like this you know 36 that one got a big. laugh that one didn't but it's actually. much better if you can not you can avoid. looking down the whole time and sort of. essentially like what reading the. subtitles cuz you want to hear it you.

want to hear the rhythms what works and. then you'll suddenly think hang on we. really lost them I don't we don't see. that character for quite a bit in the. middle and you can see by their face. that they have also noticed that they. didn't appear. for quite a few pages in the middle. But. a lot can change after the table read. If it's bad you can have to go quite. significantly back to the drawing board. under a quite a lot of time pressure. >> Yes the main thing about table read. really I mean from our perspective we. would say this is for a writer so the. writer gets to hear the pace of the.

thing and the speed of the thing and as. you say the feel of the thing and the. job is then to go okay now we're going. to go and make that better. As you say. there are there's also better. departments sitting around and sometimes. you're thinking why is no one laughing. and you think well cuz the person from. wardrobe literally all they're doing is. trying to hear every time in the stage. directions they say he is now wearing a. fez and they are literally just writing. down fez. Or so-and-so you know walks. out of a the swimming pool and they're. like oh okay waterproof okay trust so.

they everyone's just doing their job and. the lighting director is literally just. going. okay so that's outdoor but then we. transition to indoor okay and that's. that's all they're doing so everyone is. doing their job for for a writer it's. the most important thing. We just did a. a table read for the Thursday Murder. Club play. and that was again. but that that wasn't a full production. table read that was literally Tom Basden. and and I had a had a draft that we were. we sort of. we had a finished draft that we knew was. not going to be the final thing and we. have a lot of friends who are comedy.

actors so they. just sat around in the West End in a. really nice rehearsal room and just read. the whole script out with very very very. funny people. >> so helpful. I I've done that at an. earlier stage of things before and it's. really. immensely helpful. >> And in that situation the actors get. paid to do it. If if actors are free and. they know it's going to be a fun room. for the people they'll always come and. do it cuz and it was it was such a. laugh. >> You had a great day. >> We had a really great crew of people. doing it, really really funny people.

And you know yeah, you work out what's. funny but you also work out oh there's. too much of that, there's not enough of. that. And and so we maybe did that six. weeks ago and I've literally only just. finished the next draft. >> that was in response to that, yeah. >> That's in response to it because you. finally go okay, I hear exactly what's. going on here. I know how to fix that, I. know how to fix that. And just stuff. that got huge laughs in the room you. think well that's great but it has to go. because it's not. doesn't fit in you know. By the end of. it I was thinking yeah, come on I need. let's speed this up, let's speed this. up. So you know, table reads are.

incredibly useful in that regard at the. very early stage of the production but. >> It's never going to be the night before. >> Yes. >> Um. >> But the but but the Game of Thrones. tight tight ones that that. [clears throat] that is far more that's. a got everyone just sitting down taking. care of business as quickly as they. >> And then by that stage there was so much. secrecy around that show and and because. it had gone ahead of the books so no one. really knew who would win the Game of. Thrones and so you wanted people you. wanted to have those reaction shots of. people finding out what happened to. their characters and it can be I but I.

do agree that it is exposing for actors. to have those sort of things filmed. because as I said they're not giving. 100% on purpose. >> Yes. >> And it you know, you're sitting in a. sort of tracksuit around a table and. it's not the same as being like in. Westeros. So I feel sorry for them that. they've got to you know, and it's quite hard to explain that to. someone who's just coming to the whole. thing. That's maybe why they look. awkward. >> Yeah. Often it's the first time you meet. your fellow cast members and stuff like. that as well which is interesting and. you know you're you're usually sat next. to the person you're doing most of your.

scenes with. But I remember when we. talked to Ben Elton he was talking about. what nightmare the Blackadder table. reads were and because there was there. were a lot of very strong voices. >> Yeah. in there all of whom had an. opinion on what they were reading and. you're like, "Oh, that's not what a. table read is for." You could see Ben. Elton just want to go, "Oh, shut up.". You know, honestly, just do it and then. let me and I'll fix it afterwards. >> [laughter]. >> You know? >> The next question is almost thematically. related to that cuz I think it's. interesting and it's about Traitors in. in the West End and from Araminta.

Araminta says it's recently been. announced that the Traitors will now be. a stage in the West End next year, 2027. How does a production company go about. making a popular TV show show into a. stage production? >> Yeah, it's I mean. there's I mean there's so many different. answers to that. question. First, you have to want to do. it. >> Yeah. >> Uh and you know, the one that you can't. accuse Studio Lambert of not trying to. maximize income from everything they've. got. Now, if you've got a show that's as. huge as The Traitors and they do a live.

Traitors experience. >> Which everyone says is brilliant and I. still haven't done. I'm ashamed of. myself. I'm going to go. >> So, I imagine they started exploring the. idea of doing it on stage. How would. that work? Now, we all would know the. simple way that it would work would be. you do a cheap cash-in version of it. which they don't seem to have done. Uh. Studio Lambert tend to do everything. right. So, the you have to. get a script, you have to get a. producer, and you have to get a. director, and you have to get a theater. Those are the four main things you need. to do. So, it needs to be written,

someone needs to direct it, someone. needs to put the money behind it, and a. theater has to agree to do it. >> And a concept because you you're just. not doing. >> Well, they hopefully you leave that with. the writer really. >> But you're not but you're not it should. be clear that you're not sort of just. resurrecting this as some kind of. >> not it's not going to be Claudia just. sort of wandering around the stage. If. you have a franchise as big as Traitors, then obviously a lot of people want it. to work and a lot of people will take a. meeting with you. In this instance, this play is got I. think it's called Traitors Act of.

Betrayal. The writer they've got is John. Finnemore and John Finnemore I think is. a genius. It's I mean, weirdly still. best known for doing Cabin Pressure on. Radio 4, but you know, did his own. sketch show on Channel 4, and he's a. great, great, great writer, John. So, they immediately, rather than go for. someone sort of. big and mainstream, they go for someone. who is very, very smart, loves puzzles, and loves his. >> to say, he's he's. >> Uh and. >> puzzle genius, genuinely. >> Whoever came up with this concept, I. don't know, but the idea of it is that.

play always starts the same, but there. are five different endings. [clears throat] I think someone was. saying, "Oh, we said it's it's the you. know, you'll never see the same show. twice." And I think somebody else. pointed out, "Well, you will, cuz there's only five. different shows." But anyway, it's the. idea is you know, you could go more than. once, and you you could possibly see a. different ending. So, John Finnemore. is writing it. I know someone, funnily. enough, he did a table read for this, and said it's terrific. So, which it. would be if it's John. Robert Hasty is directing it, and again, did standing at Sky's Edge. He's just. like a proper theater director. And.

theater directing is a is is a. I've discovered from the from the this. Thursday Murder Club process, there's. only about eight people who can do it. It's a but it's like immensely. complicated and difficult, and it's it's. sort of very, very different to being a. movie director in some ways. There's. there's something much more up close and. personal about it. So, they they've. they've got a great. director. And Studio Lambert I see are. producing I saw I. it said that they're producing it. themselves, and I thought, "Huh." I. mean, that's very brave, cuz again,

producing a theater show is very, very. different to producing everything else. But then I saw that Neal Street are. producing it with them, and Neal Street. have done lots of theater. That's Sam. Mendes and Pippa Harris's company. And then, of course, they have a theater, because. John Finnemore is writing it, and Robert. Hasty is directing it, and Neal Street. and Studio Lambert are producing it. So, it's it's it's. >> And the West End is in incredible. health. We have to keep saying this. You. know, that this is why so many things. are It's extraordinary, you know, I've I've said it before, but that sort.

of thing that you used to do if you. wrote anything in the contract, like, what if it becomes a musical? It always. used to just be a joke with writers. I'm. pretty sure that originally when Irvine. Welsh wrote Trainspotting, he didn't as. And someone said to him, "What if it. becomes a musical?" He went, "A musical. of this? Okay. You know, what if it does? We'll come to. that." But but it is a musical. >> The offers we got to turn Thursday. medical up into a musical. I mean, like, a lot. I mean, the we you know, we're. doing it as a we are doing it as a play, but so this is going to be at the. Gillian Lynne Theatre. It's called. Traitors Act of Betrayal. I think I think it opens in 2027. But.

you to to answer the question, you have. I mean, a number of things. If you had a. smaller piece of IP and you you develop. an amazing script, then. maybe a director and maybe a theater. would be interested. With this, I think. even if they'd done a substandard. script, they would have found a director. and they would have found a theater. because you know that lots of people are. going to come and see this. It'll be you. know, an an event play. But it seems. like and it sounds like they've done the. opposite and they've actually done. something great with it as well. So,

you know, I. >> I'm dying for it. >> I think they they have high hopes. I. imagine it'll be very good. I hear it's. very good. And yeah, it'll be in the West End in. 2027. But yeah, you you have to want to. do it, then you have to do it really. really well, and then someone has to. give you several million pounds. >> But look at the amazing things that have. have come you know, if you look at. something like My Neighbor Totoro, which. was extraordinary, to have come from I. mean, I've it was absolutely brilliant. Stranger Things, The First Shadow, all.

of these things. And they all start they. all start [laughter] here because it's. too expensive on Broadway. And lots of. them then go all the way around the. world, but it's really interesting to. see how it it's a part of our creative. industries that is in mega health. >> And the reason they do it and Studio. Lambert is a good example here. The. reason you do it is almost all plays. lose money, but if you make money, you. really really really mint money forever. and ever and ever. I mean, you, you. know, there's there's there's a reason. Andrew Lloyd Webber's got such a nice. house, you know? It's you you you can. print money forever and ever. Um the.

reason you wouldn't do it is cuz it. costs you a lot of money to put it on, but if you're Studio Lambert and you've. got a piece of IP that is so powerful. and so successful in this country, you. know that other people are going to. finance this thing for you and you're. still going to get a very good deal. I imagine they've invested their own. money in it as well because, you know, they would believe in it. But it's it's. a low-risk way to sort of be involved on. a on a poker table where the where the. winnings could be absolutely enormous. >> Let's go to a break now, after which I'm. going to be considering some truly.

terrible film titles. >> [music]. >> This episode is brought to you by the. Lloyds 5K house deposit. >> Lloyds are offering a 5K house deposit. which was last seen in 1996. What are your entertainment memories of. the 1990s? >> I feel guilty talking about the 1990s. because you look back and it it was such. a golden era. >> We'd never had it so good and we didn't. even realize cuz we were young and we. just thought we were entitled to it all. >> We absolutely took it for granted. Yeah, Britpop was absolutely in its pomp.

Oasis playing to quarter of a million. people. You had Blur and Suede. >> Power. I'm so sorry. >> Spice Girls, amazing movies at the. cinema, Trainspotting. I mean, it felt a. time of absolute optimism, but at the. time you just assume that was the way. that the the world was going. >> of optimism. >> Yeah, but and part of the optimism, of. course, is that mortgages were more. affordable and that's what what Lloyds. is is dealing with right now. >> Yeah, last seen in 1996, Lloyds are now. offering 5K deposit mortgages to. first-time buyers. Search 5K first-time. buyer.

>> 1996 average first-time buyer deposits. based on ONS data. Subject to status, your home may be repossessed if you. don't keep up repayments. Conditions. apply. >> [music]. >> Welcome back, everybody. Chris Rand. asks, "I'm interested in how film titles. are determined. Two decent films this. year, I Love Boosters and Crime 101, have had poor box office numbers, and. I'm convinced it's because of their. terrible titles. Could you explain how. films with significant branding. investment can end up with titles that.

fail to resonate with audiences?". >> Chris, I so agree with you on bad. titles. It is extraordinary sometimes. I. I have to say I haven't seen either of. those. I know what they're about. >> And that's why you haven't seen them. >> Yeah. Maybe. I also thought the trailer. for Crime 101 looked like gibberish, so. I didn't feel need to. >> Gibberish is a good name for a movie. >> Yes. I mean, it could apply to many, but. I totally agree with you. The There's. some sort of sense that the title. doesn't matter. The title really matters. for anything, for any any single thing. It's such a crucial element. It's the.

first kind of thing that a potential. audience will have will effectively hear. about a film or anything or any creative. property. It It needs to have a certain. stickiness because there's a lot out. there. >> Well, any creative project, you're. constantly trying to nudge your audience. in one direction or another. And the And. the title is is where you start nudging. them from. >> Yeah, I I and you're so right. How on. earth can it happen because we are. talking films that cost tens of millions. and sometimes even sort of hundreds of. of millions. I sometimes think that.

I don't want to be too unfair here. because I do think there's a sort of. confirmation bias. And when films flop, then sometimes you can say, "Oh, well, you know, you can retrofit the idea that. the title was terrible." But there were. certain things that people thought would. be a flop. I mean, I know that Tim. Robbins was like, "The Shawkshank. Redemption, it's like a tongue twister. You can't even say it.". >> is a bad title. >> Yeah, and yet it doesn't matter because. something, you know, and now everyone. can say [clears throat] it very easily. and name it as their favorite film, etc.

Um he thought it was just like almost. like a tongue twister. There were others. that you just think, "I can't." There. was Do you remember that um There was. that amazing Gabourey Sidibe who made. her debut in that film and she was. brilliant in it. And it was called. Precious colon based on the novel Push. by Sapphire. Because there'd been some other film. that nobody cared about or something. called Precious. I I mean, you've got to. explain to me how you've This is. ridiculous, okay? I thought like Joker folly at her if I. hadn't already thought that Sorry,

you're turning Joker into a You're. taking turning Incel film into a. musical. If I hadn't already thought. that was in a bit of problems, I would. have definitely thought it once I saw. that title. I actually I mentioned this. on Tuesday's episode. I don't think Nope. is a good title. That film is really, really good, and it's like what Sorry, what am I watching here? So, I've tried. to break down what the. the different types of bad title. >> Oh, great. >> I would I would say when it's sort of. genericism to a ludicrous degree. So, that film John Carter. Sorry, tell me I. It's just a name. Tell me what it's.

about. I've no idea that this is some. kind of. >> Sorry, that's that's a friend of my dad. >> Yeah, [laughter]. exactly. I mean, it's just ridiculous. I. do not know what this film is. There's a a couple of those Planet of. the Apes ones that annoy me just because. it's like Rise of the Planet of the. Apes, Dawn of the Planet Apes. It's like. what order does this come in, and aren't. they the same thing? >> have two authors as well in the same. title. >> no. Ludicrous grandeur, I cannot bear. So, if I didn't already know that. Quantum of Solace Well, if I hadn't. watched it, I it was not going to be my. favorite Bond movie. This is the one.

where he's in so much grief, that Daniel. Craig over Vesper's death, that he. doesn't even have sex with the Bond. girl. Okay. No wonder Sam Mendes came back with a. one-word cracking title Skyfall. I'm not. sure what it is, but it sounds very. Bondy. I'm in I'm interested, and it's. >> I'm assuming Bond is going to have sex. with somebody. >> [laughter]. >> in a film called Skyfall. >> Yeah. Could Yeah, I mean, it's not that. hard in life, is it? You go around. seven-star hotels and have sex with. beautiful women, but anyhow. I don't. like I've I've talked about. under-explanation, where we it's like. this is so generic, I don't even know. what it's about. >> Franchise over-explanation, Doctor.

Strange in the Multiverse of Madness. That if you didn't know that Marvel was. really going off the rails by that. point. Um also. Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania. No. Those ones where where where you. just think, "Okay." Or or like something. a Star Wars story. Like, "Oh, I don't. know. Is it canon? Is it off-world? Is. it this or that?" No, thank you. I don't. need any of that. And I think the most I. think the one I think is the most. egregious are the it are titles that. suggest the wrong genre. So, Greenland.

And I'm like, "What's this?" It's like. Look, let's be honest. It's a Gerard. Butler disaster movie. Let's just Let's. just call it what it is. Then I would. have liked. Call it Extinction Event or something. >> heard of it. So, Greenland. >> It should be called Extinction Event or. something like that. >> Has Fallen. >> Yeah. Or Or Greenland. >> Yeah. >> Or Gerard Butler Does Greenland. It's. fine. You know what you're getting. I. want to know what I'm getting. Maybe the. absolute classic of this for me is The. Constant Gardener. Like, "Sorry, is this a spy movie?" I.

mean, I I understand if you love Le. Carré or whatever. I get it. But, you. know, you're trying to get everyone in. here. >> Yeah. >> Don't This is a spy movie. It literally. sounds like it's a Jane Campion movie. about prisoner of war or something. >> With that one though, I mean, if we're. going to talk about why films end up. with bad titles, Le Carré is not going to let you make. that movie and change the title. And. it's a great title for the book cuz in. the book you can't play against the. title. Yeah. >> Yes, because you've got John Le Carré on. the cover. You haven't got that on the. cinema marquee. >> just redefines. doing something about gardening. >> Yeah. Or or like maybe he's a prisoner. Maybe he's in Alcatraz. I don't know.

what's happening. He's got a tiny garden. on the window I don't know what's. happening. >> Alan Titchmarsh the movie? >> In terms of the next part of the. question, which is how how does it. happen? Honestly, the people with the. power agree. And sometimes that might be. the writer, as you say. Sometimes it. might be the author who's allowed you to. adapt his brilliant spy novel. And. committee-ism, in my experience and many. of people's experience, can lead to. madness. I actually think you should. just know what you're getting. Movies that I mentioned in the Tuesday. episode, Barbie. Oh, I think I don't.

what's happening here. Oppenheimer. I. know what's happening. I'm Minecraft. >> Dude, where's my car? >> I mean, people that one was so bad it. was good. There is a There is a genre of. so bad it's good. >> Dude, where's my car? And you know the. follow up to Dude, Where's My Car? Yeah, Seriously, Dude, Where's My Car? [laughter]. >> Yeah. >> And did that brilliant You know what I. told you I was looking forward to a. horror um that's coming in August. By. the way, I have now seen it and it's. absolutely brilliant. I'm desperate for. you all to see it. It's uh it's so good. It's quite genre bending, but it's also. very, very much an homage to the genre. and very funny. That's called Teenage.

Sex and Death at Camp Myasma. Okay, I. guess call it what you like, but okay. So, I think you can sort of get away. with those sort of titles in maybe I'll. just everyone just call it Teenage Sex. and Death, but that's just brilliant. That's um written and directed by Jane. Schoenbrun and it comes out in August. But again, it will will see. It is a. bri- it is a brilliant film. I. absolutely loved it. I'm still thinking. about it. >> Oh, that's cool. >> It's a lot. >> Uh we have Yeah, we spend a lot of time. on on the titles. I mean, for my books. and and everyone's books and sometimes. books will come out with titles where.

you're like, and that's I mean, how are. you supposed to know what that is? But. yeah, we we've always spent a. a long time on titles. And it and it's. you know, I'm very, very happy to. involve as many people as possible in. that. It's funny cuz sometimes they. >> [laughter]. >> we have to come up with the titles. before I finish them sometimes just. because you know, the process of covers. and things like that. And I will never. let my publishers read anything beyond. the first 20,000 words because they're. sort of whodunit-y type books. So, I. want them to read it all in one. And so.

I they'll come up with titles and they. go, "Yeah, that's I mean, that's going. to give away the killer just so you you. know." Or "Yeah, that has literally. nothing to do with what's about to. happen." And I mean, God bless my. publisher. They they they do keep at it. And they go, "Can you give us any. hints?" I go, "Yeah, maybe something. around this sort of area." But it it it. always we you have to have a title that. at least. you know, The Bullet That Missed, The. Man Who Died Twice, even The Thirsty. Murder Club at the first point. Just. just things where you go, "Oh, okay,

there's a little something to get your. >> But I can understand it from the title. It's I Sorry, I mean, these things do. seem basic, but with some of these film. titles, I agree. I You know, I love. boosters is a terrible title, and I. think it was quite funny and good. >> Edington is a film I've read so much. about, I have no idea what it is because. I just think I'm not It's just It's. called Edington. >> I agree with you. You're not giving me. anything, and unfortunately, in a very. crowded market place, you have to. So, I. agree with you, and thank you for. raising that, Chris Rowland.

>> [music]. >> This segment is brought to you by Lloyds. Marina. >> Lloyds are offering a 5K house deposit, which was last seen in 1996. What made 1996 such a huge year for. British pop culture? And it was massive. >> Yeah, it was massive. I mean, by the. way, that's an amazing idea. Cuz what. you know, I just remember like when we. were in our 20s, >> Yeah. >> you didn't have to put down a huge. amount of money for a house, which was. handy if you didn't have any money, which I definitely didn't. So, yeah,

1996, it feels like the year that. everyone harks back to. When we kind of. again, it was just before Blair got in, but it's a you know, >> So, there was a sea change in the air. >> Yeah, and it was you know, and we felt. this optimism would last forever. So, thank thank you to Lloyds for bringing. some of it back. >> There was a thing that people always. used to say about the '60s, which was. that the swinging '60s was actually 17. people in London and Mick Jagger. But it. didn't feel like that in the '90s and in. 1996, it was very The whole Brit pop, all of these things were a much more. democratized movement, and they all. joined up. The football, obviously, was.

the Euros. I might be able to talk. I'm still quite. upset about it. >> Yeah, cuz so Brit pop started sort of. early '90s, and it it was it was sort of. very cool, and it was it was very kind. of left field, and it was Suede and Blur. and Pulp. But then Oasis or when you get. to '96, Oasis suddenly are playing to a. quarter of a million people. at Knebworth. So, this thing that was. very, very British, very, very cool, very, very optimistic, that crossed. different classes, suddenly became.

absolutely the heart of mainstream. culture, and difficult to think of of an. example of that happening in the years. since. >> I know, and it was internationalized in. American magazines. You know, there's a. famous Vanity Fair cover of like Patsy. Kensit and Liam Gallagher lying on the. front of it under some sort of Union. Jack sheet. And things like the movies. were. Trainspotting came out, and the. soundtrack for that was amazing. Obviously, Underworld, but there was. Pulp, Blur, Elastica, they were all on. it. That became the sort of second. highest-grossing British film of all. time. It is hard to explain to people.

how that was a sort of cultural and. incredibly cool idea, but Danny Boyle. sort of exploded into everything with. that. >> Yeah. >> And it felt much more a time of. possibility. >> It really did. I wish I'd known at the. time that I was living in a golden age. >> Yeah, because it just seemed like what. you've got. It. seemed like what you've got. Though, actually, I mean, you know, my one of my. favorite TV programs of all time came. out in 1996, Our Friends in the North, which was very reflective and looking. back, really. It was kind of 1964 or 5. to 1995, and it had Don't Look Back in Anger.

playing over the final credits of the. final episode. But, it that was looking. back over, you know, the previous decade. So, you didn't. necessarily, you know, there was there. were it was a time of reflection, but it. was a forward-looking time, for. definite. >> And to give the people who were Oasis. then now hope, it's cyclical, cuz the. '70s were pretty awful. I mean, I loved. them cuz I was a child. But, you know, it. it wasn't a hopeful and optimistic. decade. And then, you know, 15 years. later, suddenly, you've got this. incredible rush. I mean, one of the. great decades. It all comes around.

again. It does all come around again. And you have to thank Lloyds for. perhaps kick-starting this with their 5K. house deposit. >> Yes, Lloyds are offering 5K deposit. mortgages to first-time buyers. >> To find out more, search 5K first-time. buyer. >> 1996 average first-time buyer deposits. based on ONS data, subject to status. Your home may be repossessed if you. don't keep up repayments. Conditions. apply. >> [music]. >> Question from Danny Marchant, who says,

"In films with enormous VFX monsters, how do they film the actors interacting. with things that don't exist in the real. world?". >> Thank you, Danny. Well, I think that a. very, very good example of this is is is. interacting with the dragons on House of. the Dragon. So, we put your question to. the VFX supervisor on House of the. Dragon, uh Davi Ornason, and here's your. answer. >> So, the design of the dragons really. begins from the script, which is. ultimately derived from the book. So, there will be a description of the. dragons, and it's not just the visual. description, it's also like the.

character. Uh we then work very closely with Ryan. Condal, who's our uh showrunner. He will. kind of talk us through what kind of. characteristics add or subtract. something from the from the traditional. kind of description of it. And then that. becomes a 3D model, it becomes textured. You put a skeleton in it and add. musculature, and then the movement is a. big part of it as well. So, it's a very. multi-layered uh multi-step process. You. know, we'll have. on set, we'll have dragon performers.

So, they're I mean, they're fantastic, you know, they are really kind of behind. the scenes and never end up on screen, but they are people with some kind of a. performance or acting background. And uh. you know, we we basically show them the. previous, we talk about the character of. the dragon, and then they'll get in a. blue suit, and they'll hold a hold a. pole with a a fiberglass dragon blue. dragon head on it, uh light enough for. them to be able to kind of move around. and manipulate. They basically perform. the the dragon movements, and you know, it sometimes it's for an eyeline for the.

actor, sometimes the actor would go and. kind of put their hand on the dragon. head, or um kind of run up and interact. with them. Uh we try not to subject them to. to making the noises. You know, sometimes we'll have the. director on a on a mic. We call it the. god mic. So, it's like when you're. looking through the monitors, you can. kind of have a microphone on speakers. that that people on set can hear. The. director might shout or I might shout, you know, some kind of version of the. dragon sounds or or kind of cue the. performance beats. It's It's hard enough.

to keep everyone focused on someone in a. blue leotard, let alone if they're kind. of making dragon noises. It's a big. exercise in suspension of disbelief. You. know, any any small thing any anything. that bumps can just kind of trigger you. to kind of step out from that and then. you kind of dismiss the scene. You know, in a lot of these scenes are. you'll you'll have like. one of our key casts interacting with. the dragon. And it it might have to be a very. emotional scene, you know, and you're. kind of creating a dragon that has. character and you have to have kind of.

blow some life into them, not just how. realistically rendered they are and how. realistically they are, but also like. the the mannerisms and characteristics. And you know, it needs to feel like a I. mean, I often talk about giving the. dragon a brain when we're kind of. reviewing things, you know, like you. need to make it make people believe that. there's a thought process. going inside there. >> Thank you so much, Darby. That was. fascinating. >> It is fascinating. It's really weird. when you see it. It is undeniably quite. comic that there are people in these. green or blue suits. They sometimes just.

have to have a head on a pole really. high up because obviously the dragons. are enormous and you can't look in the. right place, but it does look kind of. absurd. And. it was the same for like Thanos in the. Marvel movies where you actually see. Josh Brolin and then this kind of huge. thing going for much further up. It is. kind of a weird thing to have to do. I'm. and some some actors absolutely hate it. and they're just like, I'm not moving. into this kind of CGI world where almost. nothing is real. Um and very little not.

the whole frame is effectively not. practical. Sometimes people will try and. insist on doing much more sort of. practical stuff. They I know they've. done building incredible practical sets. Um for Elden Ring that Alex Garland is. directing that's out of Austria, I think. and it's it's extraordinary. Often it. can all be completely green and then. you've got someone in a green catsuit or. blue catsuit and. and not particularly advanced head on. the top that the actor is having to. interact with. >> I love hearing from people like Darby. there cuz it it just and then you'll be.

talking about it a lot but you realize. that. you know, the public facing people on. movies are you know, the directors and. the actors and stuff but behind the. scenes the extraordinary talent of. people and what they do and how much. they care about and how much thought. they've had to put into things and how. if they do their job brilliantly it. makes the film better. So I. absolutely love when people like Darby. tell us what it is that they do cuz you. just go. it's everybody has to be rowing in the. same direction to to make a brilliant TV. program or make a brilliant movie.

>> That about wraps us up for today. If you. haven't listened to it yet, the final. episode of the Vibe Shift my series with. James Cunliffe Gregory. came out yesterday and it's about the. sort of end of Pete Woke and where the. zeitgeist is going now. Other than that, we will see you next. Tuesday. >> next Tuesday. >> [music]. [music].