What Strictly Needs to Fix

It's a BBC special release. We're going. to talk about strictly what happens when. you launch a big show with new hosts. Um, and essentially what will the. producers be doing on the Monday morning. after a launch [clears throat] show? >> We are going to talk about celebrity. traders later today. I mean, it's like. we need this show. It's really. interesting. People are you feel. something in the energy. It's really. interesting. So, we're definitely going. to be talking about that. >> We are. Yeah. Cuz that launches this. week. So, we'll be giving you our. preview. We're going to be predicting. who's going to win. And I'm going to be. um well, you can do it as well, but I.

want to say who I would choose as. traitors if I was the producer. >> And we're also going to talk about. incidents of cuts or censorship or um. remmonstration after the complaints unit. came down on a joke that Katherine Ryan. made last year um about Victoria Beckham. um on Have I Got News for You? And some. Mitchell and Web sketches have been. taken off i Player because they no. longer fit with our times or or do they? Anyway, we we will discuss this.

>> The rest is entertainment is presented. by Octopus Energy. Now, entertainment. loves keeping business in the family. >> Yeah, it's no secret that that's. traditionally been a an easier route. perhaps into show business. This not. necessarily the only way to get into the. business. However, there are lots and. lots of examples where it really has. worked for people. >> The copplers stretch out beyond film. into music. Nicholas Cage though changed. his surname from Coppa. He's Francis. Phil Coppler's nephew and he changed his.

surname just so that he could, you know, just be Nicholas Cage. >> But one assumes that in LA they did know. that he was a Coppa. >> He stands alone for me. I also think. Stennis Glasgard is an interesting one. because lots of his children became very. very famous and he always calls himself. a nepo dad because as his children got. more and more famous people started. coming to him more for for roles. That's. that's a nice way around. >> So entertainment has some remarkable. family machinery but however useful the. surname isn't always the only way in. >> No, Octopus Energy, for example, didn't. inherit its place in the energy.

industry. It's proudly independent. And. one way it does things differently is. having each customer's account looked. after by the same small team of around. 10 energy specialists. They know exactly. who you are. >> Should we start with Strictly? >> Yeah, let's start with Strictly. So, it. uh we've had the launcher already, but. this was the first show where people. were actually dancing. The first show. where you really see um Emma Willis, Josh Whitikam, and uh Johannes Rabby. being the new hosts. Um, spoiler alert.

to people, don't like it when you have. new hosts or or if you've changed. anything at all about your show. >> It's it's it's interesting looking at. the rating. I thought, okay, let's just. see what we do know. We know about the. ratings. Last week, the the sort of. launch show um which began with that. incredible one shot was was ridiculous. Um, that got 5.8. This week got much. less, but it's you're up against the. England, right? >> Up against the football. Yeah. >> You're up against England versus not a. rubbish international opponent. And. you're also in that 2 and 1 half hour.

period of the show that it has is. extremely long. And. >> in a way, if I was the producer, I'd be. delighted I was up against the England. game cuz because you know the ratings. will go up next week. >> Yeah. You. >> because you you won't be up against. something that gets 4 million, four and. a half million on the other side next. week. >> Um so the changes are there. I mean I. find it quite difficult to understand. the degree to which there is some form. of backlash or not and we can get into. that. The changes are things like the. way the dances were revealed. They did a. video showing them all signing up. Um,

and you can you can see why they've done. that because it gives you clips for. socials and this is what they're trying. to do. Um, obviously people want. familiarity and if you don't think there. was a massive backlash when Bruce. Forsight left, there was one. I know. And then it settles into this thing. where this is the only version of the. show that can possibly be tolerated. Yeah. So the pres the way the presenting. duties divide it was interesting because. at the start everyone said when they. were when we the new hosts were. unveiled. Oh I see Emma will be like.

Tess down in the ballroom. Josh will be. in the claw auditorium doing the you. know funny interviews afterwards and. Johannes will be a Raven reporter. Now. when you did your interview with them. [clears throat] they corrected that. And. what they did actually say was oh we're. going to be quite fluid actually. >> Yeah. Josh described as total football, everyone doing everything. >> Yeah. Well, I think there might might be. tweaks to it because at the moment what. happens, if you haven't seen the show, but you kind of maybe know the format, um down in the ballroom is Josh and.

Emma. Yeah. And Johannes. Yeah. >> And Johannes is up in the uh doing the. interviews once they run up the stairs. and kind of have the diffusing moment. I. have to say I think that I would not. have added another person. It's so we've. talked before about the unbelievable. technical challenge of that little bit. where people think it's so easy which is. so much harder than hosting general. election coverage as I've mentioned. before the bit that Emma has to do when. you got two exhausted people come off.

and doing their dance. They they have to. sort of get their breath back. You have. to have a bit of chitchat with the. judges then the judges have to do their. judging. I felt adding adding Josh in to. to do some jokes as well. It's quite. complicated down there. I think that and. they've gone with three people and I. absolutely see why they've gone with. three people. It makes a lot of sense to. to to do that. The one thing I know for. a fact is that's the first time the. producers will really understand what it. is that they. >> have to do. So whatever Twitter and all.

this stuff say and by the way they I. think even even it's funny even by the. end of the show they're going oh no. actually it's okay. You know after the. first 20 minutes where they go oh this I. never watch this again. in the end. they're going, "Oh, no. Sort of. I get I. guess it's okay." Um, as I say, when. you're a producer and you just launched. that show and it's a huge deal to have. new hosts on a big show like that and. there's a huge show is so enormous. They. started again with that sort of it felt. a bit like a one but it wasn't. But. backstage is very cool.

>> Unbelievable. And you realize just the. scale of the production going all the. way through all the backstage corridors. and everything. I mean, it is an. unbelievable technical masterpiece every. week. But I can't stress too much that. however many pilots you've done and. launch shows and runs and stuff. >> that the the producers are watching that. more carefully than viewers are watching. it. The producers know and and by the. way the hosts are watching it more. carefully than viewers are watching it. because you know you don't get it. completely right the first time and they. know they've got three very different um. bits of talent there. All of whom can do.

slightly different things. All of whom. will want to do slightly different. things as well. Uh and you watch the. first one you go okay I see what works, what doesn't work. Yeah, I think I think. that uh the Johannes thing is. interesting because he at the moment. he's doing exactly what Claudia did, which is you throw to Johannes, the. producers have given him two talking. points like, "Oh, here was the thing. from the VT. Um here's the thing that. the judges just said, just raise those. two things with the uh celebrity and.

their dancer.". >> But the manner is very different. Well, that's the thing cuz the reason that it. became that is that's the thing that. Claudia is incredibly good at which is. honestly give me a couple of bits of. vanilla content and it God bless you. vanilla content saying oh and I hear you. call your arm something when you're you. know in it's always been that right it's. always nothing and Claudia is very very. good at turning that into something. that's what Claudia could do now that's. not what Janice can do that's not it's. not his it's not who he is he's a. trained dancer he brings something else.

so you have to work out what it is that. Johannes does instead at the moment. they're doing you do exactly what. Claudia did. We'll feed you these two. bits of vanilla information. You talk to. the dancer and the celebrity uh and then. we'll you throw it back to Emma and. Josh. Uh but Janice can't do anything. with that. There's no he hasn't got. anything. So you go, "Oh, this is just. two bits of vanilla information.". >> Yeah. And it's very it feels very re. reverential and very it doesn't diffuse. the tension in the way that Claude. having a laugh with Claudia to get rid.

of the you know sting of the judges or. whatever it is. >> and it doesn't become more than the sum. of its parts. No, which is what you. want. So they'll know that no one. watching that will have thought anything. other than that. No producers watching. that thinking I think we've absolutely. nailed it there. Okay. They'll work out. and also then you sit down with Johannes. and go what is it that you are? I mean, you're technically you're you're an. incredible dancer. You've been there. before, so you have that kind of ex. player vibe as well. So, there's. different stuff that you can do. >> The two-hander between Josh and Emma,

uh, again, it's tricky because. there is a history on that show of that. being written for. >> Yeah. >> And writing for two people, one of whom. is a comic and one who is not a comic, is sort of impossible. You know, that is. sort of impossible. Now, when you're a. producer, when you're making that show, you got a billion different things to. think about. So, the first thing you do. is, okay, we'll put Jojo up there. We'll. do what we used to do with Claudia. We'll put Josh and Emma down there. We'll do what we used to do with Tess.

Right. I think probably that's not going. to work going forward, but they. >> because it was completely assumed that. Josh would be up there. >> Yeah. >> By everybody. >> Yeah. Exactly. And it sort of makes. sense, but it's. >> Did they try and do something really. counterintuitive? >> Yeah. You you try and do something. counterintuitive as well. Uh, and also. you think, well, Jojo could go backstage. because actually we don't have a lot of. that candid. >> stuff and it would also make great extra. content and may maybe those BTS could be. 30 seconds shorter. I don't know. That's. uh but I've always thought that. >> Yeah. >> Um, so it's absolutely one of those. things of uh the one thing I'll tell you.

for a fact that no one's paying any. attention to is Twitter. That's a really. interesting thing. So I went on Twitter. just almost as a nostalgia kind of thing. to see what they were saying about it. And you could I mean you you can just. work out exactly what they're saying. which is I mean everyone's saying well. I'm never going to watch again. >> That's it for me and strictly I'm afraid. I'm never going to watch again. I miss. Claudia. Anything. >> there's very small self- selecting group. of people on that platform. [clears throat] who are sort of. effectively live tweeting it.

>> Yes. >> Some of them are saying that. >> Yes. And then the son and the male are. sort of saying. >> well that's viewers turn against. strictly anything. Uh, so the thing I. wanted to talk about is what it actually. is to be like the the producer on Monday. morning. And the one thing I will say to. you is no one is paying any attention to. that because they know exactly what they. have and they'll just find the way of. >> just tweaking it slightly to show that. on screen that no one is going to be. looking at any social media and going, "Oh my god, what are we going to do? This is a crisis." Because it it.

definitively is not. >> It is done purely to drive headline. engagement. And I really find, you know, if you look at the outlets, all the. reach titles, I don't know, Express. Mail, I I find, to be honest, I find. these kind of genuinely pathetic. stories, and by the way, the people have. to write them privately will tell you. that they hate doing this thing because. it is a form of journalism where you. take one or two or three social media. comments and you spin them into a.

>> here's what people are saying story. I I. find it like it's really difficult to. understand the sort of death spiral of. quite significant parts of journalism. and decide you know and sort of chicken. and eggit. I don't know whether people. being made to do this has compounded the. kind of fullscale failure of. entertainment journalism in lots of ways. or whether just deciding to do this has. I it's very difficult to understand what. came first. But whatever it is I it's.

just it's the most kind of plastic food. It's so unnutritious. It's just it's a. nothing. And there are about 10 of these. things on even on something like mail. online which is not so kind of we've. talked before about people like the. express or or or the mirror and being. stuck and having to do millions of. different types of stories about Martin. Lewis or whoever it is because it. because it you know you can kind of. repackage them all slightly differently. But actually even on Mail Online there.

are huge numbers of stories about this. I I'm not at all sure how significant. the public kind of outrage it reflects. is. I don't think it is. And it's just a. sort of nothing. You can just find. anyone to say anything. And it it's. >> that kind of journalism has bled right. out of entertainment and gone all sorts. of other places. But I do find it just. very very poor. And the other thing I. would say is it fundamentally. misunderstands what the show is. This is. a show about dancing journeys,

endurance, and sort of self-discovery. and also discovery of who the hell these. people are. It doesn't m you know please. let everyone tell me that they knew. every single part of Karen Carney's. personality at the start of last because. I don't want to hear it. Okay. But by. the end you're like I'm in love with. this person and you'll look at someone. like Lacy Turner who I think is just so. completely charming and you can feel. that there's something about her that. like like lacks. >> masses of types of confidence even. though she's very very charming and. incredibly sort of winning but she and. you feel like oh you could definitely go.

on a journey and you're trying to pick. the horses that can go on the journey as. it were in these shows. That is what the. show is ultimately about. It really. isn't about and I I I should think that. you know Claudia and Tess would be the. first person people to say it. They. understand that this is what the magic. of that format is. Always has been. always nothing will change about that. because it how can it be anything else. Yeah. >> Um, so I find the kind of the. predictability of it all difficult and.

and really depressing and actually it's. a really pathetic form of journalism. And when I sometimes see people sort of. winging about cuts in journalism and. things like that, I think Yeah. Well, partly you're doing it to yourself. >> Yeah. I I think when when when you look. at the strictly in crisis headlines, you. think, well, something's in crisis and. it's not strictly. Yeah. >> You know, but something really is in. crisis. I mean, because again, it was. nostalgia to go on Twitter. It really. felt like nostalgia to go on Twitter. because it used to be such a big deal. when you had something like um uh.

Strictly. It used to really add to it. And now it it just doesn't. It feel it. feels like a a thousand years ago. >> But is it cuz there's no one This is a. there's no one sort of good and funny. doing it. Is it just like a series of. bitter comments rather than people. making funny jokes? And I mean, >> is there any of that left? No, you you. still hear there are voices in the. wilderness and there's still lots of. nice comments and you know, but you you. have to wade through a lot to get there. now. You do have to wade through the 50. most obvious opinions a human being.

could have. >> So, has that type of second screening. already sort of gone away. >> Well, no, because here's the interesting. thing and there's there's a point on and. this is why the journalism side of it. and the Twitter side of it is so deeply. irrelevant. We know what they're doing. on Street this year, which is they're. doing they're trying to do to it what. they've done to Dancing with the Stars. in the States, which has been a huge. success story. They've really really. turned it around for for a show on a. network. It's been a huge success story, and they've done it by talking to the.

the Tik Tok generation, the Instagram. generation, and that's what this show is. absolutely squarely aimed at. There's. there's there's a point at which Anton. sometimes Anton will say the the quiet. bit out loud. Uh and I I love Anton, by. the way. Anton is the absolute these. days the beating heart of that show in. my opinion. Everything flows through. him. You could see Josh and Emma. Anytime there was an issue, >> we go to Anton. Anytime we need to get. ourselves out of a corner, we go to. Anton. And Anton always delivers. And.

listen, people could watch it and. disagree with that. But no, we were. saying it while we were watching it. >> Yeah. But like, you know, when a manager. says, "Oh my god, so and so midfielder. was the best player on the pitch." You. go, "Huh?" Cuz the manager sees. So, as. a producer, you're going. >> Anton is helping us out. But when Cash. Mercer from Love Island did his [snorts]. dance, he does he does like a a street. dance version of a ballroom dance and so. it gets marked down because of it. But. but Anton says he says uh he said, "Well, you're a man for the Tik Tok era. This will be all over Tik Tok." And you.

go, "But that's but thank you, Anton, because you're you're exactly right. >> Just say the word name of the platform. >> Say the name of the platform and then. there nowhere to second screen it." But, you know, I think there was there was a. particular worry that um you know, uh. the male celebrities weren't quite as. strong. But then you watch it and this. is why the casting directors are. brilliant. You look at John Nellis and. you look at Graeme Hall, you look at. Shawn Mike Phillips and everyone's going. to fall in love with them. The women are. absolutely taken care of. You got Danny. Dy, you got Jamie Winston, you got Dame. Sarah Story, Delta Good. I mean, that's. great. But the the men who people think,

oh, I don't know who they are. >> Those are the journeys that we're going. to watch. I mean, John Nettles could win. the. >> Yeah. >> whole thing and everyone in the world is. going to know who John Nellis is. Um, listen, I mean, spoiler alert, a huge. amount of the world already knew who he. was. It's just they consume different. media to the media that uh are consumed. by another generation. Okay? So, but you. know, John Nellis is now going to, you. know, he's going to become the. singularity that uh that unites us all. >> The Nellis singularity. >> The Nellis singularity, as I call it, but it's it's aimed it's aimed at a.

different place now. It's aimed at a. different audience. uh and it's aimed at. being sort of visible across the week in. different ways and in different forms. and spreading the idea that there is. this program on Saturday night to a. generation of people who would not. ordinarily be watching it and yeah just. looking at that reaction last night and. I was looking in the places I used to. look h and you do just think oh okay. this sometimes you go I see I see that. this is completely. >> changed now the old days versus the new.

days but um it's weird Isn't it? It just. feels like It feels like we're in the. olden days when you look at those. >> Yeah. >> reports. >> Just don't cover it like that. >> Yeah. >> It really is. You could simply not cover. it like that. It's just old-fashioned. And for people who are constantly saying. the BBC need to innovate and be. commercial and go where the audiences. are. Why do you write like this then? >> Yeah. Exactly. Why do you say I haven't. heard of these people when there's. someone with 10 million followers who. who it's your job to know who they are. You know, it's okay if the public don't. know they are, but literally you should.

know exactly who they are, and you. should know that it's a big deal to get. some of those people. You can't just. write he's somebody's hairdresser. How. is that a celebrity when he's, you know, the Kardashian hair. >> for 20 years? >> But um I really enjoyed it. Uh I love. Strictly and um you know, it's it's and. there were people there I hadn't heard. of for sure. >> But so what? That's not the show. >> I I watch it with my um oh with my House. of Games head on. It's my last ever week. on House of Games this week. >> Oh, good. Is it? >> Uh, yeah. So, Michael Stein takes over.

next week, but I'm always like, who here. who has not been on House of Games would. I love to have on House of Games? And. there's, you know, you go, I'll have. John Nellis immediately. I'll have Lacy. immediately. I'll have Graeme Hall. immediately. I mean, there's loads and. loads of names. And I als think that's a. good um. >> Yes, >> that's a good sign. >> I think Josh will want, you're saying. they're all happy. I think Josh will. want a new formation. >> I think the one thing, but they know. this already. They don't need advice. Johannes needs a slightly different role. in the clitorium. He needs not just to. be fed what Claudia used to be fed. because Claudia would turn that into. something. Uh, and Johannes needs.

something something a bit more. It takes. two where you go into maybe some of the. technical details or something a bit. more. I'm not sure he can do the. emotional journey in the same way that. Claudia can or the comic stuff in the. same of the tension. >> or the diffusing of the tension. But, you know, he he can do other things, but. if I was a producer, I'd be excited. >> And as they said, they've said it's. going to be fluid, so now they can do. what they like. >> Now it will be fluid. >> Yeah. >> The one bit of feedback I give to the. producers, they don't need feedback. They don't want feedback. But I have one. bit, and I'll only say this because I've. said it a million times on shows that.

I've done is um please, please, please, can we never have another celebrity. introducing themselves by saying um. you'll probably know me for or I'm best. known as. It is so embarrassing for. every single person who is it's. embarrassing for the show. It's. embarrassing for the celebrity. It's. embarrassing for the viewer. You can. just say, "Look, I train dogs on Channel. 5, right? you. It's almost certain you. don't know me, but here's a clip of what. I do. I I promise you I promise you'll.

like me. You don't have to say you may. know me from I just come on. >> Fortunately, we've got through that. show, but just as a memo for autumn. 2027, let's never see it again. >> That is the only criticism I think that. is acceptable of uh the firstly show. >> Now, we're going to talk about the other. um BBC 1 juggernaut after the ads, which. is Celebrity Traers. a few predictions. uh and also um uh should we be censoring. comedy as well. So we'll uh we'll see. you after these.

>> This episode is brought to you by. Lloyds. Now show business loves a club. >> I love all these sort of unofficial. groupings of people. There's two brat. packs that I'm a big fan of. >> There are two brat packs. >> Yeah, there's two brat packs because. there's the movie brat pack. all of the. Jud Nelson and you know Rob Low and. Charlie Sheen and all those guys. >> everyone in the Breakfast Club. >> Yeah. And then there's also the brat. pack of those kind of turn of the '9s. novelists Brettie Senellis, Jay. Mcernney, Donna Tart.

>> And that's the thing, creatively it's. actually very very useful to hang out. with other people who are incredibly. talented because you drive each other on. to do things cuz a lot of the British. novelists in the 80s, Martin Amos, Julian Barnes, Ian Mchuan, they all used. to sort of go and have lunch and go and. have dinner and you could just tell, you. know, they would talk about stuff and. they would make each other's work much. better and that's the benefit of being. in a group being in a club. becomes more. than the sum of its parts. >> Clubs really do have benefits like Club. Lloyds, an elevated everyday bank. account with exclusive benefits, plus a. lifestyle perk like cinema tickets,

>> and you get no fees on debit card. spending and withdrawals abroad, an. exclusive mortgage rate discount, interest on your balance. >> To join a club worth being in, search. Club Lloyds. You must be a UK resident. age 18 or over to apply. This account. has a £5 monthly fee refunded each month. you pay in £2,000 or more. >> [music]. >> traitors we're about to talk about, but. let's start now with BBC censorship and. sort of getting rid of jokes and. >> offensive material.

>> Offensive material. There we go. >> Um, you might have seen a Katherine Ryan. joke that she made on her I Got News. when she was hosting a bit less than a. year ago has been censored and she's. been admonished for it by the BBC. executive complaints unit. >> Complaints have been upheld. >> Yeah. The AC12 of of of BBC complaints. unit. So, we'll we'll go we'll get to. that. And also, um some Mitchell and Web. as part of the sort of 20th anniversary. of that Mitchell and Web look, they've. put the show back on Player and they've. taken out some sketches because they say.

they no longer sort of fit with our. times. We'll get to those later. Let's. talk first about the Katherine Ryan. thing. Um the joke was, it's really. weird. It's one of those jokes that sort. of when you're hearing, every time I. read it, I keep thinking at the time. this must have made lots of sense. I. yield to absolutely no one in my. admiration for her. I love her. She. they'd quoted David Beckham's email when. he was raging about not being given a. nighthood when he called the honors. committee I think he called them a bunch. of cwords. >> See you next Tuesdays. >> Yeah, it's a bunch of see you next. Tuesdays. And then later in the show she.

says I don't know that we're allowed to. broadcast the cword, but you did. reference Victoria Beckham earlier and. we'll allow that. >> It's quite a sort of convoluted anyway. And then there's a sort of a little bit. of a reaction in the room and she says, "Oh, I didn't expect that. I like her. really. I didn't expect that reaction. And two viewers said it was gratuitously. offensive. Now anyway, they've had a. long investigation into this and they've. said they've upheld this complaint. Jimmy Marvel, who runs Hatrick, who may. have I good news for you, has issued a. big statement.

>> And by the way, Jimmy Marvel never met a. row he didn't like. >> Yeah. Now, Katherine also, she fronts up. to everything. Her explanation, she says. she'd had a baby 10 days before. I mean, she is amazing. She's like such an. unbelievable workhorse. got three really. young children and an older uh daughter. She said, "I was suffering from a. condition called matressence. It's going. to be a tough one for the feminist. because I was a woman going to work, but. I did call another woman a cword.". Sometimes I forget celebrities aren't my. friends. If I'd called Jimmy Carr a.

Cawword, he wouldn't have minded. Joan. McN, she wouldn't have minded. But this. was described by the BBC as a slur, as. though C-words are part of a pro. protected group. I mean, I have enjoyed. all the statements about this. And she. says, "If you watched it on the day, it. was clearly a joke. The whole audience. went gasp and then I said, "Whoa, I love. her." I don't know about this one. I. don't love what they've done here. I I. first of all, I think the joke is a. >> what the BBC have done here. >> Yeah. No, I don't. I think the joke is. so oblique. Yeah. >> And okay, two people found it. gratuitously offensive. You can find Two.

people can find anything. I actually. think they should have sort of left it. Jimmy Marvel has gone in really hard. against it. I mean I mean Katherine's. sort of tried to Yeah. I don't know. People complain that it's not near the. near the knuckle enough. Have I got news. for you? And then when they do something. like this happens, she said, you know, she wrote to Victoria Beckham and said, "I'm really sorry. I just, you know, I. don't think it's that big of a deal.". And. >> yeah, I think I think it's a tricky one. I I think that the issue is if you. complain to the BBC, they have to. investigate. I mean, that's that's. that's part of the charter is. And even.

if two people do, they have to. investigate. And I guess if you. investigate that joke and you see it in. black and white and you see it sort of. you take it slightly out of context, I. guess it's hard to say anything other. than yeah, I suppose I suppose it is. sort of offensive. >> It's so hard to understand a joke when. you read about it. And that tells you. everything about what we're probably. going to end up talking about for the. rest of this particular which is. context. >> But you know, Katherine herself, you. know, by by the fact that she's sort of, you know, she god, her apology is just. brilliant. That's how to own something.

She's so smart. >> She responds to everything. I really. like her. >> Yeah, I think she's even saying, "Yeah, you know what? I sort of Yes, I sort of. get it. Yes, I sort of inferred the C. word against someone who another woman. who I don't particularly know slightly. slightly out of nowhere uh without a. huge amount of justification, but I. >> I did it because it was sort of funny in. the context of. >> Yeah. >> what I was doing. So, >> funny or shocking in the room.". >> Yeah. Exactly. So it's not no one has. apart from two viewers no one has. actually taken offense but if you have.

to it's like V when you say look. someone's fingertip means that someone. else that a goal is offside or onside. you you at some point you have to go by. the absolute letter of the law we have. to disallow that goal. >> comedy VR wow. >> but it is comedy V and so you. >> a more deadening. >> but if you're mantto I can hardly. imagine. >> if you are going to force me to give a. judgment on this one way or the other. and you are forcing me to do it because. of the way the BB BBC charter is on then. I guess I sort of have to go well I. suppose it's a bit offensive I mean even.

the BBC are not kind of going we will. make sure this is never ever repeated. Katherine will not be working with us. again we will not be working with the. producers this year. >> one of those BBC. >> no one actually cares. >> no no one cares. >> yeah but it is exactly V and have I got. news for you because it's edited. overnight and it's been going forever. you're going to have that stuff every. now and again I mean that's the that's. the point of it so I I do think it's. it's. >> in a way you should be glad you have it. because it shows that you still got. you're still yeah times, you know, you. go beyond the line or whatever because.

otherwise people always will always tell. you you're too cozy. >> But uh does Victoria Beckham care? No, I'm certain she she doesn't. Does. Katherine Ryan come out well out of it? Yes, she does. Is Jimmy Molville happy. because he gets to slag off the BBC? Yes. Uh so it's it's sort of everyone's. happy. I I do think the Mitchell Web. thing is more interesting. Let's get. into that. More intriguing because. there's there's there's more sides to to. that. to go over it. The BBC's removed 11 That. Mitchell and Web look sketches from Eye. Player. They This show ran between 2006. and 2010 and so it's kind of like a 20.

year anniversary. That's why they're. putting it back on. The sketches were. and again it's even hard to explain. I'm. short of seeing the whole sketch which. we're not going to be able to do. But. >> and again again this is literally comedy. VR. We're having to watch everything in. slow motion from a shed in in. >> Oly war reenactors in blackface, an. indigenous tribe living in a garden. center, a joke about Jimmy Savile, David. Mitchell in a burka. There are various. things and the statement from the BBC is.

which I will read in full because it's. fair to give them their justification. that Mitchell and Web look has been made. available on BBC eye player. This is a. 20-year-old sketch show in consultation. with the program makers. We have. included the ones that still work today. and not the ones that don't. >> So a lot of those sketches and it's. interesting they have not said anything. about it. Mitchell where they probably. think it will go away quicker if they. don't. Yeah. They were sketches that. mocked racism and I' I've I mean I this. is I've done this when complaining to my.

desk at the Guardian sort of saying. something this is offensive and it's. really annoying and I apologize this. because it's such a sort of pretentious. thing to say but they have confused the. subject of the joke with the object of. the joke and these were sketches that. quite clearly were making were mocking. racism. I think it's very difficult when. you're dealing with stuff like this. We. and it's completely a sort of function. of the era in which we live, which is. that in the old days things were much.

more eancent and programs happened and. then they weren't available forever as. these kind of permanent artifacts. And. it's sort of the way with newspaper. things as well in that, you know, once. it was just chip paper and you never saw. it again. And now you've kind of created. this permanent online artifact. Um, and. but you've stripped it of its temporal. context always. And that's what's. happened here. >> Stop stripping things of their temporal. context for goodness sake. >> But they want them to live forever on. streaming because then they make more. money.

>> And after George Floyd in the death of. George Floyd in 2020, lots of US shows. removed kind of blackface scenes or. sketches. 30 Rock was a particular one. Tina Fay came out and said, "Take it.". And I'm going to come back to that. specific episode in a minute. Mad Men. kept an episode where Roger Sterling. performed in blackface and they added a. card sort of contextualizing saying, you. know, this was the 60s or whatever. >> It when this happens, you've kind of got. a few options. You can either cut the. whole episode and say we're not going to.

show that any longer. You can remove the. scene. None of these are kind of great. You can have a sort of title card. warning saying this is going to happen. You can have a title card. contextualization saying like the madmen. thing this is how you or you can just. leave it completely but it's very. difficult to provide the context at the. time and I mean I find it quite. difficult there I've I've read a lot of. interesting stuff I I remember reading a. lot of interesting stuff around the time. of this that moment in the wake of um.

George Floyd's death and black lives. matter and people saying the same. picture of blackface could be obviously. route one just a racist caricature. Yeah. It can also be that the character. wearing it is being lampuned as a kind. of grotesque idiot who has done this. thing or it's a sort of wider satire. designed to expose either the history of. blackface or the absurdity of it or the. awfulness of it and it could be the same. image doesn't anything other than number.

one don't immediately make it harmless. but it's clearly a different context and. I I think it's difficult just taking. this stuff out. >> Yeah. I mean that they say look it we we. we've done this in consultation with the. program makers and I'm absolutely. certain they have and if I was Mitchell. and web or Mitchell or web then I would. ask them to take it out and I' the. reason I would do that is because in. 2006 you could probably just about have. predicted where we are today but it. would be hard to predict the culture in. which we live in which nuance has been.

stripped out of public discourse. >> Yeah, that's what it is. It's not that. the the sketches have sort of become. >> embarrassing kind of artifacts. I'm. sorry. I mean, you know, possibly some. of the Little Britain ones for sure. Those are just like what what was. actually happening here, but that isn't. the case with these Mitchell and Web. sketches. >> But if you are Mitchell and Web, you. just think, well, look, they can put. these things out. There'll be 11. sketches missing, which you know, they. still exist somewhere, but they won't be. there. And it means I don't then have to. be at the center of a storm because a.

group of people online have chosen to. take. >> every single week for the next however. long people watch them. >> So why on earth would you put that out? And it's not because you don't think. people can take them. You know, you see. a lot of commentators saying, "I think. you can let the public decide for. themselves." You go, I mean, yes, the. public. Yes. And all but not the online. public because the online public will. they they they will pile on to you. >> But we're losing something culturally. because of the online public. And we. know this. Yeah. >> You know, that 30 Rock episode is. actually a good example even though Tina.

Fay for obvious reasons just like take. it out. Yeah. >> It's from 2008. It's called Believe in. the Stars. And Jenna and Tracy, who are. the two sort of stars of their SNL. analog, um they conduct this really. stupid experiment to see if white women. or black men exper experience more. discrimination. Um Jenner ends up being. in blackface. Tracy is in drag and Alec. Baldw Jack tells them to stop. Um other. characters explain to Jenna how. offensive blackface is. She is clearly. the object of the joke.

>> and you know the character matters. Look. at the things that Carmen has said and. still says every week in South Park. Yeah. >> I mean, every single week. And those the. thing about those two creators, the. thing about Trey Parker and Matt Stone. is that they are very very kind of. mentally strong and they do not care and. they've always been sort of equal. opportunities offensive and they're now. sort of leading the vanguard about like. the only people who seem to be really. really going for the Trump. administration or whatever. But they.

don't care about things like that and I. think they would go to the wall over. like you don't get to take this out. Yeah. But most most people aren't like. them. >> Yeah. So I think it is again if you're. the BBC you know there things like. taking one of the episodes of uh Faulty. Towers off because of a racial slur. >> and you kind of think what do you want. them to do genuinely what what do you. want them to do? You understand the. culture we live in, right? And a lot of. the commentators you are part of the. culture that we live in. You understand. that you're using it as a stick to beat. them with, >> you know, and you know that it will be.

used as a stick to beat them with if. they kept it in as well. So, what do you. want them to do? I mean, literally, what. is it that you would like them to do. other than why don't we all just stand. back and say, "No, let's have the. culture. Let's look at these things as. artifacts." But we that's not where we. live because the discourse is is so. dominated by people who want to either. take online bad actors. >> who either want to take offense online. bad actors or take offense at people. taking offense. You know that's that's. where we are and if it was something. unbelievably important and I would argue.

actually that an episode of 40 Towers. probably is an unbelievably important. cultural artifact. I would definitely. say that. But for 11 sketches in. Mitchell Web, which honestly they would. ask you to take out as well, and there. is absolutely no doubt the spirit in. which those sketches were written, which. is about racism and incredibly. anti-racist, but I mean, who would take. the risk in the culture that we. currently live in? I mean, no one would. take that risk, right? So, you know, just just take it out. The the.

interesting thing you're talking about. Little Britain and I remember because I. I I you know those are my contemporaries. really those those comics who who came. up in in the '9s. >> and just for anyone who is under 30 when. when you talk about context uh and. throughout the 80s and early 90s there. was. >> a very very very big movement of what we. would now call woke. We used to call it. PC. >> Yeah. >> In those days and so comedy became very. very very PC in a in a good way. By the. way, there was there was a real kind of. course correction about who we joked.

about, what we joked about, how we joked. about it. You get to the end of the '9s. and in the in the same way in politics. that everyone thought, "Oh, we've we've. solved all the problems. Li liberal. democracy is going to be here forever. Uh that's uh. >> gosh, it's great news that we got rid of. fascism ended. >> History has ended." We had the same in. comedy, which is, oh, I think we've sort. sorted all those issues out. I think we. sorted out a lot of the race stuff and a. lot of the gender stuff. And of course. you look back and it was white men had. worked all those things out and sorted.

those things out. But there was this. kind of thing of oh we can now be. anti-PC and it's a. >> because we're fundamentally good people. and we we won't we you know if we do it. it must axiomatically be funny and. allowed. >> Yes. In in in our hands we are dealing. with this safely and we're doing jokes. about the world of political correctness. and about the world of racism and about. the world of misogyny. was definitely. that thought process in lots and lots of. performers and lots of the stuff you see. now where you're going oh my god how on. earth did they think that that was okay. and it was be they weren't thinking in.

the way of oh I'm going to do something. offensive they were doing I'm doing. jokes about the prevailing culture the. prevailing culture being there are. sacred cows uh and a generation of. people thinking I think we're I think. we're probably beyond that and I'm so. clever I think I can probably handle. this material and do it in such a way. that kind of adding to the conversation. we're with we're sort There was an idea. that we were sort of post isms at that. point and we were reader we were very. much pre-ISMS still. >> and no one understood what streaming.

would become and that these things would. sit there forever and ever or and but I. do think ultimately it is a sort of. commercially dri not necessarily with. the BBC but in a lot of these other. things it's dri it's commercially driven. and it is a form of erasia because it. denies how mainstream culture oper. operated in those periods purely in. order to make things more palatable and. therefore more resellable as kind of. permanent, you know, as as permanent. kind of library content. >> But if if you take there's 11 sketches. that two things can happen to them. One,

you can put them on the content mountain. and have to put up with the discourse. around it. Or you can just say do you. know what leave it for now and in 30. years time an academic will go oh. actually have to do the 11 most. interesting sketches from that era are. these ones that were banned and I can. write about this now and I can. understand that era through these 11. sketches and what was behind them and. why they decided not to put them out. That's interesting culturally putting 11. of them out now when you know Mitchell. and Web would get grief and the.

producers would get grief and the. writers would get grief. Uh I get it. I. if I was them I'd say cut them out. Let. let history decide. Yeah, it's not worth. it. >> We'll finish on that. It's a very good. point. >> So, shall we finish with celebrity. traders? It starts this week. It starts. this week. The transmission is they're. even more confident because last year it. transmitted on Wednesdays and Thursdays. This year, they reckon they can take. Friday night. They can compete with you. going out. >> Maybe this plucky little underdog. >> So, it's going to be on Thursdays and. Fridays. Um. >> starting this Thursday.

>> I know. Um we're going to be doing extra. episodes um reaction episodes to it. >> Again, we've said this before, but it is. worth saying it's really fascinating. This is a particularly lots of shows. have celebrity formats that are in some. ways quite close to the civilian. formats. This particular show because of. the very nature of what it is is. different, very different. It will play. out in very different ways. It was such. a prestigious thing last year. You know, we didn't you didn't know that it was. going to be like the by far the biggest.

show of the year and that everyone was. going to go insane over it. >> It's like listen to your brilliant Big. Brother episode. The people going to. that first Big Brother didn't know they. were in Big Brother. Yeah. >> Right. The people going to the second. Big Brother knew they were in Big. Brother and that's that I think is. what's happened on I think Celebrity. Traders. >> We're not going to do any spoilers, but. I think we can give you I mean we can. give you some sort of background vibes. Can I can I say cuz normally if we're. doing any show like this our entire week. beforehand will be asking every single. person from every single angle just off. the record what's happening. What's. this? This is the one thing where we are. not doing that. So we can't give you. spoilers cuz we don't have spoilers cuz.

we are saying to everybody please don't. tell us. >> We can give you a couple of vibes but. that's it. Because Richard and I have. spent our entire summer saying to people. don't tell me anything. Do not tell me. We would go we would be so mad if we. couldn't enjoy it in that way. We have. heard some vibe stuff which I quite like. some you know many emotional men. I like. to know that this this occurred but I do. I have heard that a version of the thing. about all these celebrities is a lot of. them basically executive produce their.

own shows or have certainly executive. producer credit and there is a real. tendency to want to executive produce. your arc on this show. Um 20 people are. trying to say yeah and you can't who you. are in the outside world is a big part. of this show which isn't in civilian. version and which is why people who are. kind of younger and like someone like. Sebastian Croft or whatever you're at a. sort of disadvantage because the ones. who everybody knows. >> have a kind of advantage and they do.

slightly pick off the kind of younger. and less well-known members of the herd. >> also think that that the way that they. play is so different because they are. somehow they think they're more aware of. the stakes even though there's no. particular reason they should be. It's. just that they think they're. professionals and no one's a. professional once you get into that. institutionalized setting and someone. like Joe Mara last year would have been. fated in the civilian version of the. game first of all because he's good at. sport. It's so weird that they don't. they don't respect sport the celebrities.

in the same way there aren't any sports. people this time. No, >> which is really which you know anyway, but he would have been fated as a. traitor hunter. I hope they play much. more like the civilians and say things. like, "If I'm wrong, vote me out. tomorrow." I hope they do things like. that because they can learn a lot of off. the civilians, I must say. >> Yeah. I think my um sense of it is is. that this series starts at the same. intensity that the last series ended. >> That's what I heard. >> Yeah. uh and because you kind of you.

know the last news ends on such an. incredible emotional high and and and. ratings and just being part of the. public conversation and as 21. celebrities come into the the new one. it's impossible to come into that. environment not thinking about the last. thing we just saw which was Alan and. Nick and you know. all of that stuff. So I I think it's. quite heightened. Listen, it it it will. absolutely settle and like all series of. traitors, it it will become a series of. the traitors. But yeah, I I I I think it. was it was it was a uniquely interesting.

experience. Everything I hear, by the. way, is it's brilliant. >> Me, too. Absolutely. It will be, by the. way, it is I hear from everyone, it is. totally compelling. But I think the. thing that we, you and I said when we. first found out they were doing a. celebrity version of it and we talked. about it before it had even filmed. I. think we said it can this format can be. exposing and you know you think it isn't. because you've got you don't have to. talk about your personal life. They. don't have to see you brushing your. teeth like they do on some other shows.

And I think everyone on that will have. been lulled by last year into thinking. >> just an immediate minting of national. treasures. >> Yes. And I think as you say, I think. that this time it will be a very. different game, which is what's so. amazing about the format is that each. time it's played out, it's iterated and. what happened last time is fed into it. And I think that's what's so completely. fascinating. >> But you can also tell with every. celebrity who's been in it or certainly. the ones you talk to. And again, we know. nothing. Genuinely, you know, absolutely. nothing. Is they're all still in the. position now where they haven't seen a.

cut. And they, by the way, they never do. a show where they haven't. [clears throat] seen a cut of it. beforehand. >> Well, they've asked for them. if they if. they want they're not given them. >> Of course, of course they're not given. them. And so everyone is nervous because. they, you know, because they are. professionals and they do understand, oh, what if they just keep in that one. thing that I did and they don't keep in. that thing. So everyone will worry. I I. think cuz the way Studio Lambert make. television and the way that the BBC will. edit it, everyone's going to be okay. But people are naturally paranoid. beforehand because of course you go to. sleep and you wake up thinking, "Oh my. god, but what if I'm edited in this way.

and this is such a huge deal and it's. such a huge program and what if this is. not understood?" So, I absolutely get. it. I I I don't think it will be an. issue. I think people will just fall in. love with the show again. But yeah, it. starts on uh Thursday, which is very. very exciting. I just wanted to get your. take and then I'll give you my take and. people at home will have their own. >> If you were the producers, I know they. always say Claudia chooses the traitors. I mean, I mean, okay. >> Uh she probably tells the producers. Um. if you were the producers, who would.

your three traitors be? I've got mine. Who would you choose for for for. television and for and for kind of uh. longevity? >> It's tricky, isn't it? >> Okay, >> this, by the way, okay, would would be. the best is one of the single best. things about being a TV producer is this. was actually somebody's job. There was a. group of people sitting around the table. saying, "Who are our three original. traitors going to be?" What a nice gig. that is. I think I'd choose Julie Hezman. because I think there's something very.

good about those incredibly nice kind of. motherly figures being absolute. homicidal maniacs and I enjoy that a. lot. >> Um, >> does that tell us anything about your. upbringing? >> Yeah. [laughter]. >> Um, I gosh um I'd be tempted by either. Bella Ramsey or My Hara. >> Yeah, >> for sure. Um, [sighs and gasps] and then. I mean we have this we have this thing. and I think they will disrupt it now. that you know there's got to be they. can't choose three men or they can't.

choose three women or they can't choose. not a person of color. I hope they've. forgotten all of that because I think. that's become something that even the. people at home can spot. >> So I don't know who maybe maybe I maybe. I do those three. >> So you got Julie. >> Mahala. >> Mahala and Bella. >> and Bella. >> Okay maybe. See, and this is why with. all due respect, I'm the TV producer. [laughter]. >> Okay, go on then. >> Yeah, I just just imagine the first. meeting, haven't you? >> No, I haven't chosen Ross Kemp.

Actually, I haven't chosen Ross Kemp. because when you choose traitors, you. also have to choose faithfuls. And in. the same way that Joe Mara is an. unbelievably great faithful, Ross Kemp. is an unbelievably great faithful. You. want someone whose just desire for. justice. >> Yeah. Well, it just will just not be. able to be contained. And with Ross. Kemp, it would be that just the idea. that people are lying to him, you know, means he he would be an absolute. >> Do you want the traitor? You want the. traitor group to stay strong for quite a.

bit because it's if you get like someone. in who can't do it and messes it up, then you've already it's already a leaky. and it's dangerous. >> Yeah. You can you can have you can have. a wild card in there who you know you've. seen a number of series of traitors. where there's a sacrificial lamb who who. [laughter] put in the turret immediately. and listen maybe I've got one here here. would be my. >> traitors for TV and for longevity am. >> I was thinking of him. >> oh my god how funny would it be if Aml. is a. >> I feel like this he could be a.

sacrificial lamb let me tell you. >> because ammo would love to be a traitor. hunter there's nothing more than Aml. would want going to that place than than. be the man who seeks out truth and. justice and if on day one you say to him. okay you're a traitor I just think he'd. be a funny trader. >> I think he'd know the thing that the. traitors can control the game and. consequently would think I would like to. control the game so I disagree on but. anyway carry on next. >> uh Maya Jammer. >> she'd be very good. >> incredibly high status almost. untouchable in a way.

>> of all the people here not Richard Grant. not Jerry Hall I think she's the big dog. >> oh for. You know what I mean? There's something. about her that sort of feels like it. would it would take a very very brave. faithful to start going, "What about. Maya? I think about Maya. It might be. her." I never go, "It's not Maya. Come. on." And then I've got those two then I. go for a wild card just to get amongst. them because you know I'm admire who's. actually doing who's throwing the. grenades there. Um James Acastaster. So.

those are my three traitors. Rajan, Jammer, Acastaster. I just think imagine. >> he's going to go to pieces. >> Imagine them in the turret rather than. what you've come up with. >> All right. Well, I think mine will be. good. >> Oh, you listen, the great thing about. traitors is all combinations of three. people. They they ask the public who. they think who they'd like to see as a. traitor. Uh do you want to know the top. three? >> Who? >> So 20% of people there's joint third. Miranda Hart and Hannah Fry. >> I sort of see both of those. I mean.

Hannah Fry I think people will assume is. going to be a traitor because she's got. that kind of she's the kind of clever. one in there. I think it would be hard. for her to be a traitor. >> They I hope they don't do it which is. why I mean also Romesh because people. he's too strong. >> Yeah, exactly. 26% Michael Sheen. >> Yeah, >> which again I sort of go I mean Michael. will be a big character in there for. sure. I think I mean think too big to be. a traitor. I think again he will have. that Ross Kemp thing which is Michael. will take it very very personally that.

he's not finding traitors and that's. what you really you want to see that. passion and that emotion. I think. >> we'll see some of that this year. >> Yeah. And 27% the person that most. people would like to be a traitor who. who's actually not a bad call is James. Blunt. >> Yeah. >> I mean he would that's I'd be very. tempted to put him in my three. I've. gone with Aml Meer and James, but but uh. funnily enough, Julie Hesman Halj and uh. James Blunt were just bubbling under for. me. >> And in terms of winners, >> yeah, >> I'll tell you who I want it to be. I.

think she's very I absolutely love Joan. McN. I She, by the way, listen to this. podcast subscriber bonus members. Yeah. Yeah. I met her at Would I Lie to You. I. think she's so terrific. >> She's very strong. Yeah, >> she's got that thing where people don't. know her like, you know, she's not sort. of raomesh, >> but I think she's very strong. I think. she'll be strategic. I think she can. also completely underplay herself in. that way that Alan Carr was brilliant. at. >> I I really want it to be her because I I.

think she's absolutely terrific. She's a. real swashbuckler and very cool. >> Yeah. And she's she completely. authentic, which is incredibly helpful, which is what Joe Mara had last year, which is what you see is what you get. and and for a comedian to go in there. and and and to be her own true self, she. was going to be who I was going to. choose. So So given that you've chosen. that whether when you get down to the. last three, >> she gets sidebodied by. >> By the way, the last three anyone could. get in their own head. Any It's a. crapshoot. I totally agree. It's very.

difficult to say, but I would hope she'd. get really deep into the show because I. think she's terrific. What about Okay, you're going to have to say a second. choice maybe. >> Yes. Uh okay. If it's if not McN Kemp if. he if he doesn't blow himself out. >> if he doesn't if he doesn't Yeah. If he. doesn't blow himself out, I absolutely. see. >> So do I. I think he can. I can see him, if he's not a traitor, proving himself. to be a faithful in such a way that it's. I don't. >> Yeah, I I just think this there's. something about him. But it's, you know, it's often the people that stay under. the radar, but you know, I if it is a.

Castaster uh Amarajin and my jammer as. tracers, by the way, there's no kind of. uh oh, I know who it is and I'm going to. make myself sound great. I have. literally no idea. But uh. >> that's why I just said who I want to win. because I want her to win. >> But Maya Jammer as faithful or traitor. feels like a a last three player as. well. >> Yeah. >> Jammer Kemp McN watch the hell out of. this final. We'll be watching it. whatever. >> Yeah, we will indeed. So it starts on. Thursday on BBC 1. We're incredibly.

excited as say we'll be doing reaction. episodes. >> I'm doing a reaction episode on Friday. >> I know which I'm I sadly I can't do. >> Yeah, you can't do because of. pre-existing broadcast commitment. I. will be doing it with Charlotte B who. pretended to be Welsh in the Civilian. Traders and she is very very clever and. brilliant. So I'm really looking forward. to doing that. Um. >> so that's directly after the episode on. Friday. Right. Yeah. >> I'll be listening. I'm really sorry I. can't do that. I I will do it. >> It's all right. It's just this one week. then. >> Yeah. >> All right. Any recommendations?

>> Uh recommendations. Yes. Can I recommend. I was in America all last week and um. feeling slightly homesick watched the. incredible Paul Heaton live at Braml. Lane on I player and you know doing. house Martin songs and beautiful South. songs and he's just he's one of my. absolute heroes Paul Heaton and it made. me feel like it made me feel incredibly. proud of him, incredibly proud of uh. Britain as well. If you if it made me. think of anyone kind of under 25. watching this whole and it was a certain. demographic in the audience my age.

singing along to every single word and. one of those things if you're under 25. going I had no idea who this man is. How. is there a literally a stadium. completely full of people singing along. every single word to this guy who just. looks like you would pass him in the. street. I think he's one of our great uh. songwriters, Paul Heaton. So that I. would recommend that. How about you? I. really like the Madonna Charlie XCX um. Danceia after hours single the. collaboration. I I told you I really.

loved Confessions too her album and. there's a song called Dancer on that but. they kind of mix their backstories and I. just there's something about the pair of. them together. I I really enjoyed it and. I've listened to it many many many many. times because there's so much about you. know how they got into it, their kind of. club club starts. Anyway, it's really. cool. I like it a lot. Yeah. >> And two very different musical styles. there from uh from the two of us. So. yeah, a busy week up ahead. John Gisham. Q&A um on Thursday. The big brother um.

thing continues for members. As the bond. thing will continue later and Friday. night live traitors reaction with Marina. and Charlotte. I'm so excited about um. traitors. Oh yeah, I'm I'm. >> Everybody is. >> Yeah, everybody is. >> We need it. >> Yeah. Um thanks everybody. Thanks. Marina. Thank you. See you on Thursday. >> See you on [music] Thursday. >> [music].