What Are The Best Movies Where The Villain Wins?

Can we begin with The Fringe, which is. currently going on in Edinburgh? A. question from Bonnie who says, "I'm an. American. Don't worry about it. And I've. noticed that quite a few American. comedians are going to be performing at. the Edinburgh Fringe Festival this year. In a past episode, you explained how The. Fringe is no longer the place where you. get discovered for a TV panel show, and. it's expensive. So, why would American. comedians be performing for a month in. Edinburgh? What's the benefit to them?". Well, funny enough, because yeah, we did. a couple of years ago, we said, you. know, now this thing of you the fringe. is very expensive and it's it's not.

getting you the the the career moves you. once got, and that was an issue, but it. wasn't an issue for long cuz cuz, you. know, as always, creativity and and art. sort of self-corrects. And so now you. get the situation in Edinburgh where you. don't have to suddenly put up 8 million. posters and spend a load of money on. marketing and publicity because you you. [snorts] were only ever doing that for. about four people anyway who were the. four exec producers of those big panel. shows. And now you don't have to. All. you really have to do is do a great. show. Edinburgh, if you go up this year, it's got far more like it used to. You.

know, there's far more people just doing. good shows. I talked to David Adah, who. sort of uh I would call him the king of. the fringe. He would he would not call. himself that, but you know, he said the. whole point of going to the fringe, he. said, is 28 days of doing the same show. >> Yeah. >> Absolutely. honing it, seeing exactly. what audiences respond to, what they. don't respond to, and you know, in a. place where, you know, there's an. audience who really, really wants to. come and see comedy. He said, "And. outside of you doing that show 28 times. and making it better, you'll see 20.

other shows that are better than yours.". H and so every day you think, "Okay, I. need to be better than this person. I. need to absolutely raise my game." And. that's what the fringe always was. And. David is saying, "Well, look, that's. what it's becoming again because these. marketing costs are coming down." And so. if you're an American comic, it's sort. of exactly the same. It doesn't really. cost you any more than a British comic. to come. All you've got is an airfare to. put on top of everything else. You know, accommodation is still expensive for. acts who are up on the fringe. But. certain venues now like the monkey.

barrel give very very good splits on the. door for for the money you're making. So. for the first time, if you talk to. comics this year, people are starting to. make a bit of money at the Fringe if. they're coming along with a really. really good show. The rest is entertainment is presented. by Octopus Energy. Now, show business is. full of people who start out as one. thing but then take on some completely. new role that completely eclipses it. >> And before we get on to how Octopus. Energy has done that. A few examples. There are people who start out, you.

know, in bands, as singers, as as. actors. A good example would be Victoria. Beckham. >> She started off in a band, Richard. She. was in a band called the Spice Girls. >> Okay. You're gonna tell me next that. David Beckham used to play football. before he became an advertising guy. >> They have earned far more from their. second careers, these businesses they've. built up than they ever did in their. first ones. >> So the idea she's a singer that gets her. through the door, gets her known, the. culture knows who she is. She then. thinks, I'm going to see if I can do. something else. And she has the audience.

who if she does it well, goes along with. her. But you know what it reminds me of. a lot. >> Tell me. >> It reminds me of Octopus Energy because. Octopus Energy has also outgrown its own. introduction. and it's the UK's largest. energy supplier, but is now also one of. the country's biggest installers of heat. pumps, solar panels, and batteries. The. list even reaches the driveway with a. major electric car leasing business as. well. If you're a first- timer, it's still. difficult. All these things are. difficult and you know, sometimes it has. to be a loss leader. But the fringe.

seems to be recapturing a lot more of. what it was and a lot more of its. spirit. And again, it's that amazing. thing and we talk about it all the time. with AI, with everything is creative, people will find a way. Uh, and if. there's something about what you've. grown, which at the end of Fringe has. has grown, you know, for years and years. and years, it will endure. And comics. want to be there. Comics want to be with. other comics. Comics want to find. somewhere where there is an audience for. what it is they do. And it is finally. becoming a lot cheaper. And it's. becoming a lot cheaper because they're. not having to worry about getting on the.

panel show circuit. because so many of. them are already making money by doing. their own videos and so many of them. making money on Instagram and Tik Tok. and things like that. There's a lot of. uh shows up there at the moment uh with. people who are very very online. So I. think it's a rare sort of thing of you. know sometimes they go oh my god there. are salmon back in the tempames you know. somehow we've cleared it up and it feels. a bit like Edinburgh this year it feels. a bit like the salmon are returning to. the temps which is great a couple of. recommendations from David in fact he.

was the thing about David O do is he. always knows who's next you know he was. the first person Sam Campbell to me. Lolly had a phobi loads of people he's. he's always on it Patty Young he said. his show is great and Patty is the guy. who is on the weekend update desk on. SNL, so people will already know him. There's a lot of SNL alumni up there. this year. Bella Hal, one of the. writers, also doing a show up there. Bollywood Spider-Man, he says it's. terrific. Uh Kate Dolan, he says it's. terrific. But again, this is why I love.

the Fringe and this is why it will never. die. He says, uh the show that everyone. is talking about, it's a guy called. Ollie Horn. And the show is simply. called The Most Toast. And the entire. show is Ollie by the end of the show. will work out which audience member has. eaten the most toast in their life. And. as so often with Edinburgh when you go. but that isn't a show and then you turn. them and go oh it show. >> yeah it's a miraculous creative journey. I love these. These are there's some. really good ones. >> This is exactly what you want. Right.

>> Consequently quite bad asking you the. next question. >> Okay. Is this. >> Natalie Craig who says what's the worst. thing you've ever seen at the Edinburgh. Fringe. >> Oh that's it. Yeah. bonus points if you. were involved in it. >> Oh, well that Well, that makes my answer. much easier cuz when I was 16, uh there. was at Lewis Technical College were. doing a play of Danton's death, which is. sort of play set in the French. Revolution. I was in it. So I went up. for 3 weeks. We we did an old Masonic. Hall and I, you know, I was up in. Edinburgh. I loved it. I went to see a. stand up. I went to see I there people. like absolutely starting out like Alan.

Davis and people like that. you could. just go and see their show and then. you're doing this awful awful we had to. stand by the door in the interval so so. people couldn't leave. Uh that was. absolutely. >> terrible person often sometimes or just. one. Well, I mean, it's certainly not. the worst show I saw, but but the show. where I was in the smallest audience was. myself and someone else who's now a very. big TV producer. We're in an audience of. two watching um a New Zealand comic who. absolutely gave it his all and you know. it was but you know you it's sort of you.

know you do have to make eye contact um. uh and that was Reese Darby who became. Murray and Fly to the Concourse. I mean. >> oh my god. >> put it that was the only year that there. was two people at his show. he's never. had that problem again. And again, that's the great thing about a friend. You turn up and there's two of you and. you're watching something, but you go, "Oh, actually, he's quite he's actually. quite good, this guy." And then the next. year, you come back and everyone's. watching the same guy. And that's the. beauty of it. And I'm so glad talking to. David and talking to a few other comics. who are up there at the moment that that. spirit seems to be coming back to the.

fringe. Uh I've said before, I I used to. go up every year with my kids as well. from the kind of age of seven or eight. onwards is amazing stuff. Probably the. best show I ever saw was The Amazing. Bubble Man where you know he put my son. inside a bubble. You think that's great? >> I've seen him. It was inc I Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I've heard only good things actually. this year from people who are there at. the moment. So I think. >> it sounds great. It it it feels like and. again I mean testament to the people who. put it together and testament to the. comics themselves and testament to that. industry which is it's it's you know it. it keeps regenerating and and and.

Edinburgh is is a great place to take. the temperature of it and at the moment. the temperature seems fine. Uh I have a. question for you from Emily Bmpton and. her son Connor. Thank you Connor. They. ask what are your top three movies where. the villain wins? loads of my most. favorite movies of all time. Um, this. happens in. And there's I've got to have. some honorable mentions that don't make. the top three. I suppose things like. Miller's Crossing or The Godfather, they're films about villains. So, some.

villains win against some other. villains. So, I think I probably can't. classifiy that as this, but I obviously. they're incredible movies. Seven. That's. a honorable mention for that. The Usual. Suspects. This is hard to leave this one. out. Yeah, usual Sussex would be my. number one. >> Yeah, because it's. >> so clever. Okay, there are some spoilers. here. I mean, I'm not going to say, but. if you've not seen these movies, then um. so I would say that at number three, >> Mhm. >> Silence of the Lambs. >> I know that a villain gets dealt with,

but the master villain lives on. >> and wins. Yeah. >> One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. >> Very good. >> Um and it's interesting both those two. are two of the only three films ever to. have won all four major Oscars. best. picture, best director, best actor, and. best actress. And the other ones, it. happened one night, which is a sort of. screw ball thing. Yeah. Yeah. With Clark. Gable. >> That's interesting. So that's that's the. way to do a clean super is have a bid. and win. >> It's interesting. And um my winner, >> which is actually one of the very very.

very few films for the title to be the. last word of the movie, is Chinatown. >> Yes, I thought Chinatown. That was in my. head. >> And I thought of these so quickly and I. realized it's funny. There's a movie I. really recommend if you haven't seen it. because it's people don't talk about it. so much anymore but I absolutely love it. is um Robert Orman the player. >> and it's a Hollywood satire and it's. it's is hugely influential and obviously. there's lots of stuff from the studio is. that we watch now is kind of derived. from it. Um, but there's a very funny. bit where Richard Egrant is pitching the.

movie that they eventually end up making. and he's like, and he's trying to. explain that at the end, like, you know, effectively the villains win because. that happens. And then in the end, >> this is not how it this is not how the. movie that they eventually make ends. because it's it has to end on an up and. have like Julia Roberts and Bruce Willis. in it. But actually, I realized how many. of my all-time favorites the villains. win in. >> Yeah. And funny at Chinatown, it's not. really a spoiler because I think you're. aware from the beginning that Jack. Nicholson's character is very put upon. and he's not going to have a hero's arc.

>> Another case crack, Mr. Gettys. >> Yes. Uh, can I add one more, by the way, cuz I I thought that's almost perfect. top three, but I'd add No Country for. Old Men. Yeah. >> As well, which is And again, sometimes. if you got like an uber villain, the. whole point is they're kind of. unstoppable and unbeatable and you want. them to come back. So, but it's. >> because that happens. >> Because that happens. Uh, a terrific. question. Thank you so much for that. [music]. >> This episode is brought to you by.

Lloyd's Rewards. Now, a big mistake that. people make is leaving the cinema as. soon as the credits roll because there. might be a bonus scene right at the end. >> Yeah, absolutely. One in the middle. Yeah, you never know. >> In Marvel's one, there be a mid-credit. scene and then there'll be an end credit. scene. >> I remember the first one I really. remember. Well, to I remember Ferris. Buer's Day Off where where he tells you. to go home at the end, but also Smoky. and the Bandit with with Bert Reynolds. where where they would do bloopers. It. just feels like a secret little glimpse. into a different world. >> Doesn't quite have to be over.

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may vary. UK residents 18 plus. [music]. Oliver Ing has a question for you. I. like Ing as a surname. There's a. wonderful writer called Will Ing. I've. always liked him. That's his it's his. real name, not even a stage name. Uh. hello Will if you're listening. Uh. Oliver Ing says, "What are your thoughts. on Rockstar Games announcing an extended. preview of their new game Grand Theft. Auto 6 on Netflix? The trailer will be. available on Netflix 6 hours before it's.

on YouTube. What is in this deal for. Netflix and is it a significant move for. the games industry?". >> Yes, this is interesting. This is. happening next week. I think it's August. the 27th. The game doesn't come out till. November the 19th. It's been more than a. decade since the last game and you know. we should say and obviously we'll be. talking about it more at the time but. this is definitely a claim to be the. biggest entertainment release of this. year definitely of on on anything. Absolutely. >> And it's definitely a marketing first. I. mean some people are really angry. because you know the gaming community is.

so relaxed. Um but some some people are. really angry because they say you know. it's a payw wall. It's like, okay, well, it's a pay wall for six hours because. they're going to have this thing. >> Yes, it's a marketing first. As I say, it it might sing a sign signal a new era. where publishers team up with the. streamers. For GTA, it's for Rockstar. and for T2 who make the game, Netflix. will have given a great deal for this. It's almost more interesting to me in. terms of why are Netflix doing this?

Because we've talked about it again, we. talk talk about all the time. What they. want is appointment to view stuff. This. is basically 6 hours of appointment to. view. They think that. >> they will get a few subscriptions. Now, we talk about churn and maybe some. people will just buy for a month so that. they can be online and be part of the. conversation online the second it's come. out. Um, and they don't want to wait six. hours till it's free on YouTube. They. want to be talking about it straight. away. So, maybe people will pay for a. month and maybe they'll say, "Wow, Netflix, this is interesting. Okay, let. me I've not heard of much about this.

thing. Let me have. >> Well, that's the thing. One one of. Netflix's growth areas or or areas where. it sees there could be some growth is. games, right? They want to get into. gaming and at least. >> and they they have they do not have they. are a real like it's like a meme, you. know, all of the stuff they people. really laugh at them for their gaming. I'm sorry to say. >> and that's something that they have to. turn around. So if they've got these. people for six hours, then perhaps. they've got something that they want to. advertise off the back of that or. something they want to drive people. towards. So, if they are spending, if. they got money coming out of their. gaming marketing budget anyway, this.

feels like maybe this is the biggest. bang for your buck that you're going to. get cuz it's such a huge deal. >> They really want event television. They. really want appointment to view. They. really want anything that might drive. new subscriptions and they do want to. establish themselves in gaming. So, it. makes massive sense for them. It'll be. interesting to see what it does when we. if we get any figures back. And for. Rockstar, they sort of can't really lose. despite, you know, there might be a. little bit of upset from people, but you. know, that's good. Keep keeps your name. out there. It's it's it's only six hours.

anyway. >> They collaborate with everybody in. different ways. I mean, this is, as I. say, this is like one part of an. absolutely massive marketing campaign. So, which we'll be talking about it when. it happens because it will be huge. >> Well, I wonder the interesting thing. about the whole Rockstar thing is, as. you say, it's been 10 years since the. last game. Uh, and I I I wonder what the. psychology is, and we will discuss it. when it comes out. They made so much. money, just money that you couldn't. spend in a million lifetimes, and what. that does to their u their throughine of.

where they want to go next and stuff. like that. I mean, I'm very, very. excited about GTA 6, but the I mean, it's like they're a Prague rock band. from the 1970s who made so much money in. 1972 with a US number one album that. they don't come up with another one till. 1981. Who knows? >> Let's see. Yeah. Let's see. >> Oh, a question for you about illegal. activities in songs. Charlotte K says, "Often songs include references to. illicit activities, most often in. revolving drugs. I was wondering whether. artists need to be careful about what. they include in their songs. Have the.

police ever investigated an artist based. on their song lyrics? Or do artists have. a form of lyrical immunity?". >> Lyrical immunity. I love slashing my. badge. >> Yes. >> Have lyrical immunity. >> Yeah. Um, it's such an interesting. question and it and it's really really. come come much more to the four in the. last kind of kind of five or six years. in the British courts because of drill. music and the lyrics to that and there's. there's there's a culture around kind of. boasting about things and so there's. been lots of cases where lyrics have. been brought into courts as evidence and.

weirdly there's been a huge increase in. the amount of appeals against. convictions that were based on those. lyrics. So it's it's a really really. really current issue in the British. courts particularly uh in the states. Yeah, it's it's it's always happened. I. think that there's the first time. someone was convicted on the basis of. lyrics was in 1991. There was a guy who. was uh you know being accused of being a. dope dealer and he said he wasn't. And. the and and the police found lyrics. including including the lines uh I am. the biggest dope dealer in town. Uh and.

the [laughter] lyrics. >> if it's a personal use I think you don't. get prosecuted. >> But if you're the biggest dope dealer in. town uh and those lyrics were ruled as. proving motive and he was charged. Harder these days to do that. I think we. understand that sometimes you might say. that you're the biggest drug dealer in. town. Uh but you might just say that. because. >> say a lot of stuff. >> It's a good lyric. Exactly. Um uh 2017. the rapper Tay K uh recorded his song. The Race while he was on on the run from. capital murder charges uh and the song. and the video uh essentially because the. lyrics described in some detail his.

flight uh and illegal activities he did. during it. So that that was counted as. admissible and that's mainly what you. >> try so hard to cover your tracks. I know. let one thing slide. You just say. everything and and as I was I was. talking to a British judge about this. this week. Uh and she was saying it. happens a lot right there are a lot of. times where lyrics now especially from. drill music are brought into court. She. said almost always now they are. inadmissible. She said, "It's very very.

easy. Any defense council, if the. prosecution brings lyrics into uh into. court, she said they will literally just. say, I just I put it to you that Bob. Marley did not actually shoot the. sheriff." He said, "And that's such an. easy way of just saying that you can say. whatever you want in a song. It doesn't. it doesn't mean that you shot the. sheriff." Uh she says, "However, if. there is evidence anyway about. particular times and places and people. and those are referenced explicitly in a. song,

>> real names." Yeah. Real names. >> Real names. Yeah. Exactly. Just so and. and and the lyrics absolutely uh mirror. the evidence that is placed in front of. the court anyway, then it becomes. admissible. It becomes extra evidence in. court and you're more likely to be. prosecuted. uh if you are referencing. something for which there is no other. evidence whatsoever then it is not. admissible in court. So it's such a. interesting world as I say there's lots. especially in drill music lots and lots. of stuff which is pure bravado but also.

there have been occasions where real. crimes have been referenced and but the. court seems to understand the difference. of those two and I think maybe five or. six years ago they didn't understand it. quite so much but these days if you. admit to it and it's something that we. have other evidence for as well then it. will be used against you if you say. something that you know there is no. physical evidence evidence for and. there's no sort of phone mask evidence. for there's no kind of you know. eyewitness evidence for then it will not. be admissible. Interesting though isn't.

it? >> Yeah really interesting. >> Yeah good question. Thank you for that. one. Uh question for you Marina from. Brenda's been on. >> I don't think it's my mom but my mom. would have a very different question. >> Yeah. >> my mom's question would be why can't I. find Morse on ITV4 anymore? That would. be my mom's question. Brenda says I have. a question about the proliferation of. BBC radio stations. As I write, there. are four versions of Radio One, two. versions of Radio 3 and four, four. versions of Radio 5, keep it simple, Brenda, and Radio 6 has just launched.

Indie Forever. At a time when the. cashstrapped BBC is ending much loved TV. programs, this does not seem to make. sense. >> Ah, right. Yes. Well, radio station. extensions have done very, very well, particularly actually for commercial. radio. People really, really like them. >> Yeah. Absolutely. '7s, 80s, 90s. >> Yeah. They're targeted versions that. feel like they're tailored for them. So. you might say, "Oh, I love the master. brand of Absolute and I just want the. 70s version." Whatever it is, it's so. it's good for audiences and it's good. for commercial radio and therefore just.

radio in general. It's and it's really. been the evol the story of the evolution. of radio in sort of recent times because. um we they've been able to do this, but. they've managed to do this by launching. on the internet which costs nothing um. because they're sort of just playlists. really um and it's it's quite cheap. It's not like the days of trying to get. FM capacity which was very hard to come. by and was expensive. There's now DAB. which has led to much more capacity um. for the commercial stations who were. they used to be really annoyed because.

the BBC had tons of FM capacity and they. didn't. >> But DAB DAB is still limited. So what. they've come up with is this thing. called DAB plus which is a way of. getting more radio stations into the. same amount of capacity. >> It sounds like my signature dance. meeting. >> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. Okay. But not. every DAB radio is a DAB plus radio. So. we don't And by the way, data in radio. is so bad. We don't even know how many. radios are DAB and DAB plus. It's quite.

oldfashioned the way we do the data. still in radio. The radar figures. That's like radio listening figures. That that is done still really by a. sample of people who fill in listening. diaries. Um so your live radio listening. for seven days and it's you know. supposed to be representative. They do. have an app that sort of slightly. passively detects radio exposure, but. it's kind of been done the same way in. quite a long time. >> It's very 1950s. It's nice to have. something that's still very 1950s in our. modern media landscape. >> Yes. And the data is sort of interesting. in the way that when they say a station.

has x amount of listeners, what they. mean is the estimated number of people. who listen for at least five consecutive. minutes to that station in a week. So if. they say, you know, you've got four. million listeners, you just know that. they've. >> four million people have listened to at. least 5 minutes. 5 minutes consecutive. minutes. >> Yes. >> So, um the BBC has embraced DAB, but. they have struggled with DAB plus and. the extensions because they remember the. BBC wants their stations to be heard by. as many people as possible. They want to. be as inclusive as possible and not say,

"Oh, because you got the old technology. or whatever." We're sort of cutting you. off. Commercial radio has always pushes. back against the BBC and says, "You. shouldn't be allowed to do these various. extensions." And the BBC's always had. mixed success. You have to go to Offcom. for permission to do these things. And. they've because commercial radio has. always objected but the fact they're. doing more now is sort of them just. catching up with what commercial radio. has been doing for a long time. It's. very popular. It's not you talk about. the cash BBC in your question. It's very. cheap. >> Yes. Presumably the is you're using the.

infrastructure from. >> using capacity they already have. So you. don't have to it's a really good use of. licensing more people. You're just. cutting the same thing. You're dicing it. in. >> in different ways. And what you're. trying to do, as always with the BBC and. with the license fee and everything in. general, is trying to make sure there's. something for everybody and the the more. targeted so targeted radio stations are. a good way to do it. And then they're. not remotely expensive. >> And also by the Yeah, that's that's the. reason they've worked so well for people. like Absolute because it's it serves a. bigger audience and it's not adding a.

huge amount to your bottom line because. because the infrastructure is pretty. much already there. >> and now you can do it digitally. it's so. much easier and you can and now they've. even found this way of fitting more into. less and so it's not expensive and it's. good for for license fee um payers. So. don't worry it's it's that's not why. other shows are being cancelled. I mean. there some of them have been I agree but. >> yeah and you could probably run one of. those stations for you know one episode. of one of the shows that has been. cancelled because you know it is it's is. it's using stuff that is already there. and already being paid for in a in a.

>> even even I mean it's really it's really. inexpensive. >> There you go Brenda. Right, that about. wraps us up. >> for our members. We have episode two of. our Bond series, the whole story of how. they came Ian Fleming came to get his. books on film. Uh that is at the. restisenter entertainment.com. Otherwise, >> we'll see you next Tuesday. >> See you next Tuesday. [music].

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