The Return of Meghan Markle

Last week it was announced that having. made their home amongst the lotus eaters. of Monteito, Harry and Megan would in. fact be returning to our toxic shores. They haven't loved it here previously, but they are going to be coming back. Their children are already in enrolled. in school for September. Uh and they're. going to make their life here for a bit. period unspecified. So first of all, let's talk about what they left behind. in a way because I think that's quite. interesting. The rest is entertainment is presented. by Octopus Energy. Now, one talent can.

make a career. Three usually gets you an. official title. >> Yep. And that official title is a triple. threat. You call triple threat anyone. who can act, sing, and dance. >> Now, these days, three can seem almost. modest. The same person might write, direct, produce, and have another career. on the side. >> JLo would be a triple threat. Huge music. career. Started as a dancer, huge acting. career as well. It's an amazing talent. to be able to have. >> and now uh drinks mogul as well.

>> Is she? >> You have you have to be the mogul now. I. think the mogul is always the third. thing. Now this. >> So she's a quadruple threat. >> Yeah. I I sing, I act, and I have a. lifestyle portal. >> But uh that phrase all singing all. dances. It escaped entertainment and now. it's used for anyone and anything that. does several jobs very well all at once, >> which is a pretty fair description of. octopus. It's the UK's largest energy. supplier, one of the country's biggest. installers of heat pumps, solar panels, and batteries. And it runs a major. electric car leasing business for good. measure. >> I mean, that's a quadruple threat, isn't.

it? >> That's a quadruple threat. >> Just a quick rundown, the state of the. deals they left. They remember they had. a Spotify deal which sort of flamed out. after $20 million and one podcast. Uh. Netflix paid up to 100 million. didn't. actually pay the full 100 million. because they didn't deliver on so much. content because people did not want to. watch the global activism and polo. documentaries, but they loved the one. about Megan and Harry and their story, which I'm sure we'll be coming back to. later. As ever, her company is a little.

bit of a black box. We don't know really. know how well it's doing. Uh we know. that Netflix has pulled out of it. They. were selling it in some of their bricks. and mortar stores. as ever her lifestyle. company. >> with the jam and the candles and the. rosé and that jazz and but as I said. before Netflix still have a first look. deal with them and they will keep in. with them. I I feel absolutely sure. because when their lives blow up again I. was going to say when if their lives. blow up again they will they have a. proven compelling story which can be. retold if it gets another chapter in one. way or another.

>> They're big they're big stars. They're. big names. >> Yeah. But why? Okay. So why the return? There was obviously masses of. speculation. Um but then the first story. on Friday came um that she was in. advanced talks for an acting role. That. was in an Australian publication. And. the second story came via deadline, the. Hollywood bible and variety saying that. she was in talks to appear in the. gentleman's putitive season 3. >> which we've spoken about many times. before the guy Richie series based on.

his own movie. Now, if you're asking me. what I like about the story, Richard, is. it? I would have to say have to say it's. absolutely everything. I said to my. friend George, on Saturday, if she ends. up in that guy Richie I will. literally get Standal Syndrome. You. know, Standal Syndrome. This is named. after the French writer who went to. Florence in the sort of 19th century and. he looked at the Gotto Frescos and you. get sort of perpetrator when you're in. the presence of great art. Too. beautiful. >> It's too beautiful. You you're fainting. with joy at the beauty of it. as a.

story, it would be it would be. overwhelming for you. >> and potentially as a as a piece of art. As you know, I yield to no one in my. admiration for the gentleman. >> Yes. Um it's can I I'll just throw in my. um uh to Penith, which is God, I think. it's a really good move. She's she's an. actor. Do your acting. I I really I. really think if you are something, just. do that. Do the thing that you are good. at. It's very, you know, the the whole. world of when you do something that that. you don't do. when you're when you're. like a square peg trying to fit in a. round hole, people will always be.

cynical of that and it's quite hard. You. can't ever quite be yourself. If you do. the thing you train to do and that you. are good at, you can just be yourself. and people will judge you in that way. So I to me joining the gentleman uh. would be perfect for her. It would be I. think it would be amazing for the. gentleman. Now it's come out that the. gentleman have said, "Oh no, this was. just a chat between Guy Richie and. Megan. This is not official. Netflix. know nothing about it." Uh, I want to. get into the weeds of that in a minute, by the way. >> I do too. Uh, but I think it would be. perfect for the gentle gentle.

>> You literally call her, she's a. character. You wouldn't call her the. duchess cuz that that's too old for her. You call her the princess or princess. She's the daughter of a murdered Vegas. mob boss who's come over to England for. revenge and to and to find some money. that someone's taken off her. I mean, it's great for her cuz she does the. thing. >> Don't you lampshade it. Don't you make. her shade it. Yeah. Like you like invert. invert the trope. So she's the actual. princess and she's got this feckless. useless husband and that's that that's. her role. She's a princess of somewhere. and maybe well we'll get into.

>> I think that's I think even for Guy. Richie that's too on the nose but I. definitely think you would call her. >> I don't I don't rec there is no way no. there's no way someone a cocknney. character in that show is not at some. point calling her princess. It is nailed. on. It's nailed on. But remember, okay, first of all, season two of The. Gentleman uh airs on the 3rd of. September. So, this is incredible. publicity, but not that it needs it. I. think the last one when it came out was. it was like the fourth biggest series.

worldwide in in the first half of 2024. He's obviously open to people who have. alternative profiles. Maya Jamas in the. new season. >> I mean, Vinnie Jones right from the very. beginning, you know, Guy Richie's. career. He's, you know, he's he's good. at putting people on screen who you. wouldn't necessarily think of as being. on screen. And she, and by the way, you. do think of her as being on screen. because she's an actor. >> Okay. Yeah. The the show though itself, it's about an aristocrat, if you haven't. seen, it's about an aristocrat who. inherits his stately home um and. discovers that his late father has been.

allowing it to be used as a drug farm. I. have to say, we can talk about the type. of roles in a minute, but. >> it is difficult. It is different. Okay. I know it's just acting, but you cannot. have her kissing Theo James in this. No. way. I mean, >> you don't think it. >> literally to everyone it would be like. Prince Harry is getting cucked on. streaming right now. Okay, I'm sorry. I. appreciate that it's just acting. >> Yes, >> but this is what happened with Grace. Kelly. You see, she couldn't be kissing. Carrie Grant anymore. when Grace Kelly.

>> got married to um Prince Albert in. Monaco, she had to give it all up. because you couldn't then be seeing like. you know a minor European royal kissing. Carrie Grant. And I have to say that. some things change but others don't. I. think it would be very very problemat. there would maybe there could be tension. maybe there be whatever but I don't. think. >> yes I think you're right. I think there. would be a no kiss clause in this. contract. I think there would be a plot. line where someone does try to kiss her. and she pushes him away and says, "I'm. married and you don't want to meet my.

husband." There'll be like some kind of. thing. >> incredibly on the nose. Yeah. Yeah. >> I agree. >> I think it works for everyone this. >> Yeah, >> I really do. I think it's like. It works for Guy Richie. It works for. Megan. It works for people who love the. gentleman and people who don't love the. gentleman. It doesn't matter. >> Oh, yeah. Everybody's watching this. >> Yeah. Everyone's happy. >> Okay. So, but let So, let's get into the. weeds a little bit more. Tina Brown um. then wrote a comment saying, >> "Who is it?" She's the former editor of. >> She's former editor of Vanity Fair and. The New Yorker. And she's.

>> super super well connected. >> Super well connected. She's got a great. substack. Um it's called Fresh Out. She's very very good. Having said that, she said, "I believe that the role she. said the role has been withdrawn due to. pressure and backlash." Okay. >> Much as I love her, I don't do not buy. that at all. That is not how TV works. There's no backlash. This is great. backlash. >> Yeah. Um, don't want the views. Yes. Okay. Guy. Richie somehow cares about backlash. Okay. Don't worry about it. >> Yeah. Literally, if by backlash you mean.

the usual suspects on social media have. their exactly normal opinions about. everything, then I mean that's that's. I'm afraid the rest of history, you're. going to have backlash for everything. But actually, in terms of actual human. beings, people are like, "Huh, oh, that's interesting. >> I'll watch. I'll bite." Okay. So then. today, I noticed we're recording this on. Monday morning. Now there have been lots. of experts have now come out and said oh. I think it was leaked to make her seem. in demand which is okay maybe because. that is actually quite a clever thing to.

do because what you're saying by that is. oh she's available it's like when in in. Harry Met Sally when um um Carrie Fish. has got all the rolodex of available men. and one of them gets engaged and she. just turns the corner over because she. might at some point be turning it back. What we're saying here is she is she is. on the market again. If you would like. to offer a role in anything from East. Enders to The Gentleman, then you know, yes, she is taking calls. >> and as you say, uh, season two of The. Gentleman is about to start on Netflix.

It kind of works perfectly for. everybody. >> I don't Yeah, I don't anyone's saying, "Oh, she's overstepped the mark here and. leaked it." Not at all. It just says I'm. available and all sorts of other things. will now come in. I have to say I do. think that there is a career angle in. this move for her because I cannot see a. world in which I mean I know there's. been all kinds of speculation like oh. the king is very ill and that's why. they've come or whatever the reason is. but I think that there has to be a.

career angle for her to consider it. because it's obviously you know not her. most favored millia. >> well yeah. >> according to her own testimony. >> yes but it feels like if you're in. American actor actually being in the UK. is not a bad place to be cuz we know how. much stuff is getting made over here now. because of various reasons the tax. breaks these huge studios that that. being built. Uh and you know the trouble. with being American in America is so is. everyone else. >> Uh whereas in the UK there's there's. fewer Americans. So you know it does.

feel. >> there's only one. >> there's only one Duchess. But she I mean. I could think immediately I mean it. pretty much anything that's struggling. to get financed at the moment or it's. just trying to find that final five 10%. of finance which is often the hardest. thing with a with a new show I mean. stick Megan in it you will get that. final five or 10%. I mean it's it's it's. abs she'll have a choice of things to be. in. My view is stick with the gentleman. I think I would love to see that. If. you're not going to be in rivals being. the gentleman. >> I I don't think she's right for rivals.

but she could potentially she could be. Yes. The gentleman is perfect. I It's. weird because I always felt and I think. I've said it on this podcast before, but. I always felt that if this timeline had. played out differently, what she could. have done is marry him, get the two. children, maybe the marriage doesn't. work out, and you go back to Hollywood. to be Julia Roberts for your 40s, >> which I which I always thought was a. possibility, but in fact, what they did. is they made their freedom flight rather. earlier and they did it together. So now.

it's interesting so many people are. saying why have there been so many. stories about them? Why has there been. all this stuff? And it's like the fact. is people are everyone says they're not. interested in them. They are. They does. more traffic than you can possibly. imagine. There's a reason that it's at. the top of everyone's newspapers. >> It's like saying why do people keep. writing about um Manchester City and. Liverpool. Yeah. Because most people. don't care. Oh, definitely most people. don't care, but the people who do care. really, really, really, really care.

>> I agree. I do believe that their most. compelling story remains their real life. one. >> Um, and it's I was thinking about this. I ended up writing about this on um on. Friday in my Guardian column and I was. thinking about, you know, there is. something it's very difficult. They told. that story so exhaustively because they. did the book and the documentary and. they did sit down interviews with. various people and so there was nothing. left to squeeze out of that story. But.

it slightly reminds me to return to a. place that they say is completely toxic. and the toxic family and all of those. things. It does remind me a little bit. of those very high concept sequels where. you're like okay I understand speed one. the bus can't slow down. >> Okay, you've somehow got to contrive to. get Sandra Bulock on something else that. can't slow down. in case of speed to a. runaway cruise cruise ship so that you. can go back to the same money well and. you can and there's lots of sequels that. are really high concept where you're. like. >> the only way this can work is if we.

somehow get the characters I mean Die. Hard's like this die hard like this. >> so there's a team of writers going it's. going to be brilliant if we get Megan. and Harry back to the UK it feels an. impossibility. >> let's work out a way that that can. happen. >> and it's happened it's it's somehow. happened so they that will create a. whole load more friction and more things. that I'm not saying this is their plan, but it could become once again you could. have new stories to tell in in the. documentary format. >> If I were them and I'm not, um, if I was.

Megan, I'd be acting because it's it it. pre it it was there before her royal. fame. Okay? So, it's the thing that she. does that that's her trade. >> And by the way, everyone's rediscovered. everyone's discovered suits like every. single person every like ja people have. watched the whole of suit. And then the. question is what does Harry do? Right? And again it's hard because when you. have that profile and that status that. that has been conferred upon him and. that you know he wants and doesn't want. and all those things that I think a. normal human being would struggle with.

in in that situation. But I think if he. comes over here I I I saw him on the uh. on that the uh Joe Mara podcast and he's. very good. He's very good on things like. that. And I think, you know, you could. build a fairly nice media career for. Harry where he just appears on. television every now and again and is. very happy doing that. If I was his. adviser, and I can exclusively reveal. that I'm not, but if I was his adviser, I'd have I'd have a I'd have him meeting. people. There's a bunch of things that. he could do on I'd put him on the wheel.

tomorrow with Michael McIntyre. But he'd. be great on the wheel. Michael would. look after him. Yeah. It's not too high. pressure. He'd look good if he got. something right. He'd look. self-depreciating if he got something. wrong. I wouldn't put him on the. traitors or I'm a Celebrity or anything. like that. I've got a show for him. >> Have you? >> You interested? Well, because I think. one thing that really works for him is. the whole the Invictus Games and and his. work with with Veterans. I've got a show. called Harry Special Forces. It's like. DIY SOS meets uh Challenge Anakah. Uh. and it is exactly that thing of.

something needs rebuilding, a house. needs rebuilding, a community center. needs rebuilding, but he does it with a. bunch of army veterans, people who've. been uh you know, injured in in in the. line of conflict uh and they build. something and put something together. Uh. at the same time, he's showing these uh. guys from the army, these veterans, and. they're putting their skills out there. for employers as well. It kind of it's. lovely. It's feel good. He's given it's. good. Harry Special Forces is a good. name for it as well, don't you think? >> Oh, I know you've got the whole concept. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean that feels so. Harry if you are listening uh I think he. listens. Oh no I've been told he.

doesn't. Uh but perhaps Megan will. listen and and and come back to him. But. Harry's special forces that uh. >> I love Harry Special Forces. What what. else could she be in? >> Well, I mean kind of any I mean she's an. actor. You you sort of be in whatever. someone writes next, right? I mean. because she just. >> does what she does. >> Holland Cobin. Come on. A drama. The. January drama, please. She'd be great in. that. You know what? And knowing Harlon. as I do, he would be so bang up for. that. >> Everyone would be, by the way.

>> Yeah. He did a book last year with Reese. Witherspoon, who who, as you know, has. got the biggest book club in America. And her press release said um said, "Oh, I couldn't believe it when he agreed to. do it." And I messaged Holland and I go, "Yeah, I'm shocked. I'm shocked you agreed to do it. It's a. good book. It's a good book.". >> The one show I think I that Harry. definitely couldn't do that would be. funny would be Who Do You Think You Are? because it' be like now we have gone. back four generations. We found. something quite surprising. Your great. great greatgrandfather. Any guesses? I don't know. Was he a.

king? Yes, he was a king. Yes. And three. generations before. Uh what do you think. your great great great great great. great-grandfather. was? Was he a European king? Yes, that. is who he was. That's like kind of the. best and the worst episode of Who Do You. Think You Are, right? But I would I. would I I think Stick him on Would I Lie. to You? I think, you know, just just. make lie to you. No, because the his. stories that you would you would believe. anything. >> This is the point. Everyone's saying. they're just getting over their skis and.

their whatever. No, people will want to. watch it. >> And 8% of people have a definite opinion. on Harry and Megan already, right? I. would say in the country, I don't think. it is have a very very very strong. opinion one way or the other. 4% one. way, 4% the other way. You've still got. 92% of people who are like, "Oh, yeah. Well, if he's doing something. interesting, I'll watch it if he's in. something." Do you think? >> Yeah. >> I tell you what is interesting is that. what happened in America is they went. off them. Um, and there is a perception.

that they took a lot of money and didn't. deliver. I mean, that they did go out to. deal in the most brutal entertainment. market in the world. And if you fail. there, >> everyone fails. >> Yeah. Every Yeah. But they failed quite. significantly. And then people said. things out loud about how badly they. failed. And I think there's a sort of. sense that they they didn't have some. kind of huge I saw people saying, "Oh, well, I mean, they, you know, they were. never even at the Met Gala and like, oh. my god, I don't even know if they wanted. to go." But the the things that. Americans regard as, you know, the.

impremature of having made it. They. didn't do some of those things. >> and maybe they didn't do them because. they can't in their position or they. didn't decided against it or thought it. was controversial, whatever it is. But. there is a perception in America that. they have failed at that sort of highest. entertainment level. >> Yeah. And on and once you have that. reputation, you do you do have to go. back and regroup. But honestly, I just I. just think one appearance on the. Taskmaster Christmas special and all is. forgiven. >> Bake off. >> I don't know about Bake Off. I don't. know about Bake Off.

>> No, the Celeb Bake Off. >> Oh, I know you're talking about Bake. Off. It'd be really weird if it turn on. the regular bake off. >> He could do it. He could do it. He can. do it. >> Yeah. I think honestly the wheel would I. lie to you? Taskmaster Christmas. special. That's what I'd have him on. And Harry will go and pitch Harry's. special forces. Be absolutely huge. Everyone wins on Harry's special forces. >> Harry Special Forces is a fantastic. show. I I would definitely watch that. >> Megan on the gentleman. Harry on Harry's. special forces.

Before you know it, the entire narrative. is rewritten. Like I'd give a toss about anyone's. narrative. You know what I That's the. whole It's absurd that people have to. live in public, isn't it? It's so crazy. that to have an opinion on people. It's. mental, but none of us can help it. >> Shall we go for a break, Richard? >> Yes. And after that, I'll be talking. about one of the most peculiar chart. stories in uh in in British chart. history. I'm talking about Mr. Bright. Side. I I said that already. It's not a. spoiler. >> This episode is brought to you by.

Lloyd's Rewards. Now, a big mistake that. people make is leaving the cinema as. soon as the credits roll because there. might be a bonus scene right at the end. >> Absolutely. There might be one in the. middle. >> Yeah. You never know. >> In Marvel's one to be a mid-credit scene. and then there'll be an end credit. scene. >> I remember the first one I really. remember. Well, two I remember Ferris. Buer's Day Off where where he tells you. to go home at the end, but also Smokeoky. and the Bandit with with Bert Reynolds. where where they would do bloopers. It. just feels like a secret little glimpse. >> into a different quite have to be over.

>> Yeah. Exactly. And it's just a lovely. little added bonus. You've done. everything. You've made your show, right? You've given everyone everything. It's just a lovely little extra, >> which is also the idea behind Lloyd's. rewards. Extra value appearing inside. something you were already doing anyway, your daily banking. From shopping to. streaming, you can bank on Lloyds to. help your money go further. >> It's rewards like this that make 14. million people bank on Lloyds. Search. Lloyd's rewards in your app. Eligibility. criteria, terms and conditions apply.

Retailer offers and cashback amounts may. vary. UK residents 18 plus. Welcome back everybody. Uh now before we. get on to Mr. Bright Side, our bonus. episode this week is uh the continuation. of our the history of James Bond series. which I'm loving. Uh, and this one is is. all about finding Shan Connory, which is. quite a tale, I would say that. I mean, we're finding another Bond at the. moment, but finding the first Bond uh. has its own wrinkles. Uh, if you want to.

become a member of wrestlers. entertainment.com, you can sign up. there. Adfree listening. All of that, but Mr. Bright Side, I'm going to take. you back to the very early 2000s. We're. in Las Vegas. It's a young bellhop at. the Gold Coast Casino called Brandon. Flowers and he is in a synth pop band. called Blush Response. Okay. Now, Blush. Response think I think we've got what it. takes to make it. They make two. decisions. Firstly, they're all going to. move to LA. Secondly, they're going to. dump Brandon Flowers, which has got to.

go down as probably one of the worst. decisions in music history. So, Brandon. Flowers, he's 20 years old. Um, he's in. walking home from work. Someone walks. out of an Oasis gig, gives him a ticket, he goes in to see the encore, which is. don't look back in anger. And he's an. Angler file anyway, Brandon Flowers. But. he comes out of that gate, what I need. is a guitarist. That's what I need. Finds an advert for a guitarist called. Dave Cooning. Uh, and the two of them. meet up. They get on very, very well. Start writing songs. They go, you know. what? We're going to lay one of these.

songs down. And that is uh that's. Brandon, Dave, and a drum machine. The. very first time they ever did. It's. instantly recognizable. The lyrics have. not changed a jot. Now, 1st of April. 2021, uh, Mr. Bright Side makes chart. history. It becomes the first song in. British history to have been in the UK. charts for five years. 260 weeks it. done. Even now, no one has matched that. There's not a single song that has. matched that. This week, it's about to. have its 520th week in the top 100,

meaning 10 years in the charts. There's. still not another song that's done five. years, and Mr. right side has had 10. years in the UK chart. It's just become. this behemoth. Like even Brandon Flower. says it feels like it's not part of me. anymore. It belongs to other people. I. say it's the very very very first thing. they wrote. Dave uh Kerning had already. written the riff. Brandon Flowers had. he'd woken up one night with like a. worried about something and he went down.

to a British pub in Las Vegas called the. Crown and Anchor and it's still there. uh if you want to go there. It it is. opposite of a crawfish restaurant and a. 24-hour massage parlor. Uh and a foot. spar as well is it. He goes down there, sees his then girlfriend kissing another. man, goes home, writes the lyrics to Mr. Bright Side, which as I say have not. changed a jot from that moment to this. Uh you will notice as well, by the way, he only it only has one verse. >> I was about to say they don't even. change between the first and second. verse. >> Yeah, he does the verse, then he does.

the chorus, then he go I should probably. do another verse. I'll just do I'll just. do it exactly the same ex exactly the. same thing. Uh and laid it down. I say. that's that's the first ever demo. And. at first sort of no one really liked it. Had a very slow start, Mr. Bright Side. Um Brandon Flowers did an amazing tracks. of my Years with Burning K on Radio Tube. this week to support his new album, which I'll also talk about later cuz. it's brilliant. So they lay down that uh. song, no one's interested. um they go to.

a studio uh they go to another studio. outside Vegas. They sort of do various. versions of it. By the way, the the song. you hear now is the very very first. version that they did in the studio. Everyone after that tried to re-record. it and re-record it and make it. different. They stuck with that first. one. America was not interested at all. No one wanted to buy it. Uh and then in. the UK, a tiny independent label called. Lizard King. >> Yeah. >> Heard it, liked it, and pressed 500. copies of it. 500 7 in of that song. Uh.

which if you have one by the way are. worth an awful lot of money now. Again, no one was all that interested. Then. Zane Low started playing it uh on radio. one takes us back Zane Lo, isn't it? Uh. you know the era you're in when uh. you're talking about Zayno. So Zayn low. starts playing it. Steve Lac starts. playing it and the UK start falling in. love with Mr. Bright Side. They sign to. Ireland. They put the record out again. It does nothing again. Uh they then have. a hit with Somebody Told Me. They then. re-release Mr. Bright Side, which is a. few years old now. Again, the very first.

thing they wrote, the very first thing. they ever recorded. Goes to number 10 in. its first week. It has never been in the. top 10 since. It's been in the charts. for 10 years. It has never actually been. in the top 20 again. It had one week at. number 10. Same in America, number 10. Never gone um higher up than that. Uh, but in the meantime, it's set so many. extraordinary records, some of which. I'll go on to, but it's people love it. or hate it, right? Where where do you. stand on Mr. Bright Side?

>> There's so much about it that's really. interesting that it's a song sort of. about being in your own head and yet it. seems almost engineered to be sung with. absy massive people when you're wasted. at like 2 in the morning. Um, I there's. something that it sort of defines that. millennial anxiety in a way and. spiraling. There's something I don't. know. We don't have a sort of written. constitution in our country, but if we. did, I think that Mr. Bright Side would. actually be in it. >> I think it would have to be. >> It would have to be because it's become. this thing despite the fact that.

they've, as you say, from. >> Yeah. Fabulous Las Vegas. >> Um, it has the highest cultural status. without any question. And they're the. first to admit it in the UK. They've had. eight number one. They've obviously done. very well in the UK. They had like eight. number one albums or whatever it is. >> I think some people think they're just. Mr. Bright Side. I I would go on record. as saying I think they might it's them. or Bell and Sebastian are my absolute. favorite band. They album after album. like this this guy can write a pop song. >> Oh yeah, completely. But. >> what I'm interested in is why we adopted. it far more intensely than the. Americans. And it's sort of like it did.

arrive in the middle of that big indie. rock scene. So you have I don't know. fans Ferdinand and Block Party and you. know Arctic Monkeys and Ra all those. people. >> They sounded quite British. There's. something about it that it just it. sounds quite he is an Anglopile as you. say. >> Yeah. He grew up on the cure and the. Smiths and bands like that. It's funny. enough, but huge fan of all of that. stuff. He he talks on that Vernon K. thing, which is really worth catching. cuz his song choices are interesting and. he's interesting. >> But he says, and I this is such an. interesting uh lesson for anyone in any.

creative endeavor, in any creative. field. He said, you know, him and um the. gang, him and Dave first, and then um. the other two, Ronnie Bonichi and Matt. Sturmer joined the band. He said they. were sort of writing songs and they. really liked what they were and they, you know, talking through what to do. He. said, "And then the Strokes released. Uh, is this it?" Right. Uh, and he. listened to it and he went, "Oh my god, of course, of course that's what a band. should be. Of course that's the energy a.

band should have." He said they got rid. of every single song that they wrote. apart from one uh and just went back to. the drawing board and started again. because he'd seen somebody else do it. and he was like, "Oh, that is better. than what I'm doing." Which is such a. great response to when you hear. something extraordinary. So. >> there's something about the anthemic. kind of quality of it. A lot of our big. singalong songs in I was thinking about. this are actually about because it is. about something really it's about. something really dark. Yeah. and sad and.

like anxious and yet they make it seem. sort of euphoric at the same time. A lot. of our songs have that dark and. complicated quality to it. Things like. Wonder Wall and don't look back in anger. and even common people or even angels. I. mean, you know, things that people. really belt out are not these kind of, you know, completely sort of euphoric. things whatsoever. It's there was a. really in Euro 2024 they were playing at. the O2 and. >> Killers. Yeah, the killers. And they. stopped. >> to allow the crowd to watch England.

beating the Netherlands. And as soon as. they won, it was like 90 91st minute or. something. England scored. Then there. was all this red and white confetti came. down and they went straight into Mr. Bright Side. Okay. It's an alternative. national anthem. >> We get it, guys. You're from Vegas. >> But it's also interesting because of. what streaming and things like that have. done to it. It's a it's kind of a song. that's at all rights of passage now. So. someone who's was 18 when it came out is. now 40. So you know obviously they've.

sung at it all their their university. nights but now it's at like at weddings. and so it's the song that's always. >> we had it at our wedding. So that you. know we talking about what songs to have. and then we say I don't know about Mr. Bright Side. I said I promise you later. on in the evening we had this it was it. was a December wedding. We went um freed. from desire. >> Mr. Bright Side. All I want for. Christmas is you. And I mean the the the. roof came off the place. We had we had. to pay for repairs. But you know there. is there's something about it. And again.

I as you say the there's a darkness in. lots of these anthems. But it's called. Mr. Bright Side and Wonder Wonder Wall. is called Wonder Wall. You can you can. imbue it with some possibility. >> You can hear it on your own at like when. you've broken up with somebody and it's. like this is my devastation at large. Or. you can hear it with like all your. friends at half past 1 in the morning. and be like amazing. It's it's in. >> But also it's about we've talked so much. about those songs that kind of hit just. before streaming becomes totally. ubiquitous and then they get adopted.

into every playlist and they take on a. life of their own and it's so benefited. from that and it's just now comes around. in everything and it's been it's part of. people's rights of passage. >> Yeah. It's the third biggest UK single. of all time by combined units which is. sales and and streaming behind Do They. Know It's Christmas and and Elton John's. Candle in the Wind. It's the biggest UK. single by Mar that's never reached. number one. Funny enough, it took that. over from Wonder Wall. But looking. through the charts this week, there are. a lot of songs that we've talked about. the morabundity of the charts and how.

things hang around and be paused to. reflect that Ray Meen, which we talked. about six weeks ago, is still number. one. 22 weeks Ray Mian has now had I. think next week. >> it's going to be knocked off I think by. Huawel the uh the um French rapper I I. think it is but I could be wrong but 22. weeks but there's 25 odd songs that have. been there for over a year but I'm just. going to go through there's the the five. songs on the chart at the moment that. have been there for over three years. that have been on the charts for three.

years. Don't forget we know what number. one is already. That's the killers. So, I have special dispensation to reveal. number one first because otherwise the. item wouldn't have made sense. >> I'd never shame you. >> Number five, Everywhere by Fleetwood. Mac. Number four, Dreams by Fleetwood. Mac. Three years and three and a half. years on the charts. None of these top. three have been number one, but these. are the songs that have hung around. forever and ever and ever and ever. Number three, three and a half years, just four weeks more than the Fleetwood. Met Dreams is this Vance Joy and.

Riptide. I get I mean you recognize it, right? It's got that kind of folky. thing, a little bit of a rocky thing, but yeah, it's been on the charts for. over three and a half years because. we're in a situation now where you know. radio is still playing ABBA and Queen. When we like a song, we like a song. And. in the world of streaming, you can hang. around the charts forever and ever and. ever because the charts are no longer. decided by, you know, teenagers who. like, you know, the new pop music. It's. decided by what we all listen to all the. time. So that's number three. Number. two, 4 and a half years in the charts.

Iris by the Goooo Dolls, which again we. all recognize. It's one of those songs. that just that hangs around forever and. ever. Is that sort of plainer ballady. type song that they're always covering. on XFactor and every time you hear it, you go, "Hold on, what's that song?". Because they don't they don't really. mention the the title in the chorus. So. everyone, it's almost like everyone's. hearing that for the first time. Every. time they hear it, everyone's reminded. of that song. Every time they hear it. for the first time on TikTok. >> Yeah. Insanely huge. And then Mr. Bright. Side at number one there. But it's um as. I say, 10 years in the charts this week,

which is incredible. No other song's. ever reached five years. There is one. song, it's not currently in the top 100, which is two weeks away from 5 years, and that's Louis Kapow's um Somebody You. Loved. So, it'd be lovely if that got. the the five years as well. But I I I I. just think I mean, I love. >> The Killers. I think they're. extraordinary band. Brandon Flowers, a. new album. It's called Thrasher. Uh and. he's made like he's made a country. album. Yeah. I think Yes, please. And. it's it's it's really really really. good. Um so if you only know Killers.

from Mr. Bright Side, you've got a the. whole world of brilliant songs to listen. to. And if you love a bit of country, then Brandon Flowers has got a country. album out this week. But I just I wanted. to celebrate this incredibly unlikely. song becoming the biggest anthem in an. entirely different country of the. century. Now, this is a big story. I. think this next one, BBC versus YouTube. Yeah, >> I've got a lot of views on why it. shouldn't be, but. >> Oh my god, I love it when you've got a. lot of views. >> Can I give the background to this first? As part of the government green paper,

which is about the future of media in. this country, there's all sorts of. things that the government is looking. at. Um the main ones are news and how. it's regulated, the future of. distribution, the switchovers like. turning off broadcast and the future of. regulation and also the future of public. service broadcasters. Um which as we. know are the main what we would call the. terrestrial channels. Uh and the PSBs. have what we call a compact the PSB. compact which means that they have lots. of obligations of things they have to do.

and they get stuff in exchange certain. privileges and what's being talked about. and I And by the way, when you say lots. of things, there has to be a certain. amount of religious programming, there. has to be a certain amount of children's. programming, news has to have it and. impartiality, all all of that stuff. >> But the issue is that all the privileges. you get are based on the old broadcast. tech. So you might get like spectrum or. prominence within the linear TV guide, EPG. So what they're trying to do is. kind of help the P the PSBs for the.

future because how do you make sure they. continue to thrive because they are a. good thing for society and for the UK. creative economy. They are the reason we. have the great this this unbelievable. creative economy and it is the PSBs who. spend and keep the industry alive no. matter what Netflix tells you because. their profits go back to the US or. whatever. >> and as you say in in ordinary you turn. on your TV and the first five channels. are the PSB broadcasters. So that's. easy. You have that prominence. Uh but. now most people are not switching on the. TV in that way.

>> No. >> How does one help the the public service. broadcasters in that uh situation? >> Well, the what we're going to talk about. today and I really wish we didn't have. to because it's become this big. sidetrack issue and it's not the main. thing. Lots of the other stuff I just. said is the main thing, which is that. the government is talking about trying. to give them prominence on YouTube. >> Trying to give the the PSBs prominence. >> Trying to give the PSBs prominence. And. as a result, lots of YouTubers are angry. because they're saying, "Oh, well, why. should they be given advantage?" And um.

this is, by the way, I think a real. sidetrack thing. And it's not just. YouTube, it's Tik Tok and things like. that as well. Um but this bit of the. debate is coming to really dominate. Um. >> so, so the idea would be the government. passed legislation. I think they want to. do it voluntarily with these platforms. but otherwise they pass legislation. which says you are given in the. algorithm you are boosted uh okay. further than you should be is is what. what is being discussed. >> if that's what how the government really. think that YouTube is going to work then.

I get I am very worried about that okay. >> what would prominence on YouTube mean. what the UK government decide how the. algorithm works okay good luck with that. I you are push what you'd be doing is. pushing content that people don't want. into their streams. >> That is a really bad consumer experience. and just I mean just say the government. managed to get some value. >> out of YouTube in this one battle. Okay, >> they will find a way to take it back. Just ask Mr. Beast. Okay, Mr. Beast has.

got done over, if you will, by the. algorithms switching to push smaller. creators. Okay, it this all reminds me a. lot of a there's a there's a Friends. episode where Chander wants to give some. money to Joey, but Jerry's proud. So, he. has to invent this game that he can lose. money to Joey in. And anyway, so he does. that and it works. It's called Cups or. something. And then Joey plays it with. Ross and loses it all to Ross. And Ross. thinks, "Wow, I'm amazing at this game.

I'm going to play Chandler." And it's. like, dude, it's it's a fake game. And. so Chandler just changes the rules and. wins all the money. YouTube is like. cups, okay? It's their platform. >> Yeah. >> They will take the value out of the. platform, not you. And if the government. This So, this is a stupid debate and. it's taking up too much time. I have. sympathy with some of these YouTubers. >> Yes. >> But don't worry about it. Can I just say. there is no way the PSBs can be big on. YouTube. There's just no way. And no one. is big on YouTube. The biggest 10. players on YouTube in total have like.

this tiny singledigit percentage share. on YouTube. And if you look at what the. PBS have done on YouTube last year, I. think Channel 4 and ITV sort of threw. the kitchen sink at it and they put so. much of their content on it. Do you know. how much money they made is estimated. between five and 7 million pounds off. that? Sorry, who's who's that going to. save? Okay, even if they give prominence. and you double that or you triple that, >> I don't need to tell you that 20 million.

is not going to save the public service. broadcasters. Okay. >> I mean, even if it's £20 million, they. have to save half a billion over the. next few years. So, it's Listen, it's. but that's it's money down the back of. the sofa in terms of Yeah. >> what lies ahead for them. >> Switch over isn't. >> can in basic terms explain what you mean. by switch over because I know it's a. it's a huge deal. >> Yeah. turning terrestrial TV off to. release which will which is incredibly. expensive and you end up paying hundreds. of millions of a year to companies like. Arava and you don't have to do that.

anymore and you can spend that much. money on the UK creators. and things like that the the stuff that. growing up we where TV came from. >> yes and everybody to to be digital but. not not but people not to be left behind. because it's a very important social. good and they understand that but this. this is the important parts. One of the. really important. >> So we're paying that huge kind of. carriage cost to to big companies with. big infrastructure in order just to beam. that terrestrial signal to to smaller.

and smaller amount of people. >> smaller numbers of people. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Also content made on other platform. taking content that's made for other. platforms and dumping it on YouTube. doesn't really work. native creators are. what work and by the way I think the. PSBs and they are doing this they should. make much more for these platforms or or. that's designed to be watched like this. but I mean even Matt Britain the. director general of the BBC said that. this isn't a good idea at the select. committee trying to sort of fool YouTube. or to kind of get one over it it's just.

a stupid idea to try and give get the. PSB to give prominence. >> what can the government do that isn't. this. >> Oh my god I'm so excited that you can. ask me again so I can say we need a. button on the remote. There needs to be. a button on your remote. They can. legislate for that. You need a dashboard. button for radio in the in cars. They. could force the platforms to provide. more data on who is watching. They can. give various kind of promotional. inventory to push stuff through. But. this is the stuff that is m will make a.

difference. The other stuff though in. that green paper is far more important. The future of news, >> remote buttons, dashboards, all things. like that. digital switchover. Digital. switchover is so much more important. than this. Okay, if we turn terrestrial. TV off, they it will release billions to. be spent on the UK creative economy. Forget little arguments about five and. seven million pounds that you might get. from YouTube. You need a swift. >> and the argument about switching it over. is there's still a lot of people in an. older generation who who would then lose.

their their services, >> which we don't want to happen. We want. every. so much money that can be spent in the. creative economy. So there will need to. be better privileges for PSBs. But there. are things like the button on the remote. maybe every you know more support from. the government and you know a charter. settlement that sustains the BBC not. just into the 2030s but beyond. It is so. much more important than arguing with. YouTube about how you can get in the way. of their algorithm.

>> Where do you think this has come from. then from the government? Do you think. this is something that is is it. something that's just been floated by. the government or is it something that. they genuinely. >> Well, I just, you know, I think that. they think that they you can you can't. win again. These are the face eaters. You know, you can't win again. Big tech. is not going to save anybody. It's like. Ross thinking he's good at cups. They. might win one they might win one battle, >> but they'll find but you YouTube will. just find a way to get that value. And. also for anyone who's under 35 it is. impo I mean. >> I could make an argument uh for you know.

a government intervening in capitalism. you know do the BBC itself. >> is that it's sort of saying yeah listen. we live in a capitalist system but there. there are ways and means that you know. we can nationalize industries and things. like that. >> it is very very very hard to make that. argument to anyone under 35 who watches. most of what they watch on YouTube and. who have favorite creators already and. are very aware that most of YouTube is. not slop but is you interesting stuff. made by really good creators. Very very. very hard to make the political argument.

that that's something that. >> should happen. And in fact, it makes you. look a lot worse. >> Yes. And it's just pointless trying to. go up against them on it because they. will find a way to win against you. Just. ask Mr. Beast, the most successful. creator on their platform. We have the. best creative economy in the world. because we don't compete for funding and. we compete for talent and all these. other things, but the PSBs are in no way. going to be saved by YouTube. Um, it's. too small. It's the wrong thing. and it. gets in the way of stuff that matters. that the other stuff is much more. important. And it I do worry if they.

think that having some pointless kind of. battle with YouTube over this is going. to do anything. I can understand why the. creators and there have been quite a lot. of creators who've gone on the record. saying, "Oh, this is awful. You know, they're going to push that, you know, Dragon's Den and it's going to beat my. content." It won't, by the way. It just. won't. If people who watch Dragons Den. on YouTube know where to find it. It's. on the BBC. Don't worry about it. your. thing because it's made for the platform. and it's native will still continue to. do better. And there just isn't any. evidence on what we've seen that.

>> they could legislate in any possible. meaningful way that would lastingly push. the PSBs that YouTube will not save the. PSBs. >> This idea of having a button on the. remote control which you've talked about. for and I and I love but. >> and in car dashboards for radio. >> Yes. And in car dashboards for radio. Okay. Uh, but would that would that. require all the PSBs to join up? Because. if I was ITV or Channel 4 and they put a. BBC button on my remote control, I'd be. like, I mean, this is crazy. Whereas if, as we banged on about before, uh, not. that we bang on, uh, that if they all.

joined together and had an eye player. that had all the public, you would you. would have a button that literally took. you to that. >> I agree. And it has to be I player. because I player is there's no point. trying to like everyone's just got to. get over themselves. And that includes. the BBC, by the way. and how much. prominence will be given to um the other. the other broadcasters on i Player. But. I my opinion is that yes and that we'll. move in that direction because then you. have a a massive destination of scale. You need to be a big destination of. scale to compete with what's coming and.

yes they should absolutely have a button. on the remote. >> Yeah. But if you did listen and and we. let's fast forward three years into the. future. you got that button and you you. turn on something that's got all the BBC. content, all the ITV content, all the. dramas, all the game shows, all the um. Channel 4 content. I mean, there's a lot. there. That's a destination. That really. is a destination. >> It's a destination of scale, which is. what is going to be needed to survive. because they're going to be three or you. know, some people could say there could. be four, but you don't one's obviously. going to be Netflix. You need to be. given that prominence. Having some. argument about the YouTube al algorithm,

they will simply change it. >> So, ignore this debate. ignore this debate, but don't ignore the. rest of it because it's very important. >> Yes. >> Any recommendations? >> Yes. Uh if you're listening to this on a. Tuesday, then tomorrow the brand new. season of Bookish begins. The first. season was one of my favorite things on. TV last year. I was lucky enough to to. see the first episode of this the other. day at an event. It's brilliant. It's so. brilliant. Uh I literally just I was. like I immediately want to watch the. second episode and I can from uh from.

Wednesday. All of the new series is out. on Wednesday and it's Mark Gates and. he's playing a a sort of u is he a spy, is he a detective, he runs a bookshop, there are murders, Elliot Levy. It's. really great. Loads of great um guest. stars and just brilliant. murder mystery but with real depth and. real emotionality and you know it's it's. really really really good. It's on you. and ali. >> He's such a treasure. I think he's. amazing. >> How about you? I would like to recommend.

a film that I've been waiting to. recommend because I saw it a screening. much earlier this year. Teenage Sex and. Death at Camp Myasma. >> Yes, I remember you mentioning Okay. It's horror, but please leave your genre. expectations at the door. I mean, it's. really about female sexual satisfaction. >> Oh god, it's such a lot. It's very funny. and it's it's stars Jillian Anderson, I. mean, in a hysterical performance. Hannah Bender from Hacks.

>> Oh, Hacks. Yeah, >> the two central performances are. absolutely incredible. It was written, directed by Jane Sherbrun. >> Ladies, you need to see this film, >> but men, you should see it, too, as. well. I absolutely loved it. I'm going. to see it again. I'm I'm going to see it. again. >> Good recommendations this week. Um, that. was lots of fun. So, uh, we'll see. everyone for a Q&A on Thursday. >> See you on Thursday.