The Problem With Playing The Traitors Like Maths

Hello everyone. Just like us, you've. just finished watching the latest. Celebrity Traders. If you haven't uh. just finished watching this, please. switch off now. We're going to talk. about everything we just saw, our. opinions, our predictions, our thoughts. about various of the players, various of. their tactics, and what might happen. next. >> The Rest is Entertainment is presented. by Octopus Energy, whose generation. business backs, builds, and manages. renewable energy projects. On screen. though, the practicalities of sourcing.

power are slightly more negotiable. >> Certainly in script, I mean, my favorite. energy source story, Back to the Future, of course, they're supposed to have. plutonium. They don't have plutonium. So, they rely. >> back in when they go back when they go. back. So, they need to get 1.21 gaw. >> which they get from the lightning. strike, which they know is going to. happen at 1004. Very, very clever. Monsters Inc. Now, you know where the. power source is. Monsters Inc. Everything in Monstropolis is powered by. children's screams, which is why they. need to sort of harvest them.

>> Yeah, may not work in real life. >> On screen, keeping the lights on does. seem to require an unnecessary amount of. drama. >> Now, Octopus Energy Generation has. rather less need for a screenwriter. It. backs, builds, and manages renewable. energy projects with 5.7 gawatt of. capacity across its portfolio. Enough to. power all the homes and businesses of. Birmingham, Leadeds, and Manchester. combined. a slightly more conventional. approach to generating power. >> I think we do have to begin at the. beginning, don't we, though? >> With Richard, >> I don't think we'll see that particular. game plan again [laughter] in the future.

of this format. Richard, what do you. think? My Richard, what do you think? >> I think I think it's slightly unsettled. the whole show up to now. I sort of feel. like the show hasn't really started yet. cuz what we've had is like a miniseries, which is somebody does the most mental. thing you could ever possibly do in. Celebrity Traitors. >> You're right. It does have a miniseries. feel to it. Yeah, it's Yeah, it's almost. like a cold open. >> to a Bond movie which is Richard Eye. Grant has come because the second he. does it, you think, "Oh, this is. brilliant. Oh, this is brilliant. I'm a. traitor." And now he get he gets to just.

be the agent of chaos and go, "Of. course, I'm not a traitor." But I'm sort. of going to act like I am. I, you know, I wanted to be one, so I am going to. cause trouble. Easy. You're out of the. woods completely. But he didn't. He was. sort of, "Oh, no. Sorry. I thought. everyone was I thought if I said it, someone else might say they were a. traitor and we'd catch one." So yeah, I. think that the whole thing is slightly. off balance at the moment. I think from. tomorrow's episode, which we're also. doing a reaction um video afterwards, I. think maybe things might settle, but.

they haven't yet. Do you know what I. mean? >> Yeah, they haven't. It's the first time. in either the US or the UK version of. this show of any type that they've got a. se they've got a traitor at the first. round table. >> Yeah, it was probably the first time the. traitor said, "I'm a traitor." and then. and then and then not gone back. >> I think we know that. But actually I was. looking and I was thinking it must have. happened somewhere and it has happened a. few times in Europe. There was one in. Poland where the guy was so thoroughly. sort of debunked at the round table that. he also voted for himself.

>> Did he? Yeah. >> Yeah. So that's it. But other other than. that I think that's quite a Richard move. actually. I'm surprised he didn't vote. for himself. >> Yeah. I'm surprised he didn't. So. Richard 16 votes he got he didn't vote. for himself of course. Worth looking at. the people who didn't vote for him. Look, I think if someone says, "I am a. traitor," and then doesn't do anything. to really disavow themselves of that, it's it sort of feels like you should. probably vote for them. Uh the ones the. ones who didn't, my two absolute. favorites, Jerry and Joanne, both. [snorts] of whom voted for Leanne. I. think Joanne said, "It's the only.

tangible bit of information I have to go. on, the fact that Leanne touched up her. lip gloss." And you think other than the. fact that Richard E. Grant said, "I am a. traitor." And ever since has had not. really denied it. That feels slightly. more tangible. Uh, but God bless them. both for doing that. >> I know what she means. I think Joanna is. just so sort of she's so hardcore and. straightforward, but there is an. element. I love her. As you know, I want. her to win, but there is a there's an. element of her that just thinks nobody. could be that stupid to do what Richard.

had done. Like, she couldn't actually. believe that anyone would be that. stupid. So, she had to think that that. it had to be something else. She's got. real sacrifice in the final three energy. about her. >> Don't you think? >> Sadly. >> I mean, 100%. >> It's such a crapshoot as we say. So, >> but I sort of I hope so as well because. I want her to stay in. >> for as long as possible. Jerry as well. Jerry is essentially I love that at some. point later in the episode there was. this suggestion that Jerry was a traitor. as well. You think? Yeah. Cuz the. producers would have gone I tell you who. we'll put in the turret. Richard Grant. and Jerry Hall.

>> That goes. >> because at the start of a series that's. really really really what we want. I I. will say this and it's got this format. is so fascinating and if you're. producing this format, if you're sitting. in the gallery and you're thinking, okay, I wonder what's going to happen. We've got a few fun things in play here. Maya is good. Richard I think is going. to be a wild card. That's fun. Don't. forget we got the coffin thing. So, you. know, we've got another traitor. That'll. be really interesting. No one there is. thinking, oh, Richard is going to walk. into a room, say, I am a traitor, and. then not walk it back. And that's the.

story for the first three episodes. They. didn't know that was going to happen, you know. So suddenly every single. traitors is different because something. absolutely weird happens and the. producers are having to think on their. feet from from there on in. So that is. Richard. I will say this that if you. want to go into celebrity traitors, if. you want to get paid your full fee, if. you want to do the minimum amount of. work and you still want to be remembered. as one of the most iconic traitors uh. contestants of all time, tick tick tick. [laughter] He's done it. He's done the. full journey in the minimum time.

possible. We shall miss him greatly. >> Right. the turret. So, we hadn't seen. them together before. They decided to. recruit Bella, Hannah, or Miranda. >> Yes. >> What would you have done? >> None of those. >> Okay. >> I think I think I wouldn't have gone for. Bella because thus far it feels to me. like Maya is the only person here who's. going to be a decent traitor. I think. we'll talk later on about who, you know, who who becomes a traitor. And by the. way, she's not that great cuz it's very.

difficult to do it all on your own at. any stage of the game. >> Yeah. I mean, it's it's she's like. hering cat. So James, who I think is. he's so bright. >> and I think I sometimes think I've seen. a lot of standup. I think he's the. single greatest standup of his. generation. I think he's brilliant, but. he's brilliant for a particular reason, which is he's he's sort of a super. empath. >> Yeah. >> And I think this is going to be. impossible for him is what I think. But. then I thought that about Allan and I. was completely wrong about that. But he. later on in the episode starts doing a.

couple of things you think yes this is. exactly what to do. Starts playing it. very very well. So if he had the sort of. personality that that could keep itself. together in the turret I think we'd be. fine. It feels to me like it might be a. bit too much to bear for him eventually. Then I'm thinking that the person they. eventually do recruit. But listen, we'll. talk about that in a moment. But yeah, definitely would not have gone for any. of those three. Bella's going to get. themselves kicked out at any point. Same. with Hannah. Easy to get rid of either. of those. You have to pick somebody. You. have to pick a Sebastian or a Michael.

>> Why don't you pick Miranda? I have to. say contrary to our. >> beliefs at the start, >> I think we're falling over ourselves cuz. she has been absolutely brilliant. Absolutely. We'll ask her in a minute. Can I. >> Solid as a rock? >> I have a procedural question for you, which is. >> could they have murdered Hannah, >> i.e. chosen not to recruit and then. being given the chance to recruit the. next night since they are still one. down. Is that what would happen? There's. a lot of smoke and mirrors over the. rules. >> A lot of smoke and mirrors.

>> You know, if she'd refused. >> Yeah. >> presumably you don't get to make a. second gambit if the first one's failed. >> Yes. Exactly. >> So, or do you to make the remaining. number of episodes work with what I mean. there was a lot of smoke and mirrors. from the producers there. >> So, if you're if you're the producers in. that situation, so you're down to two. traitors immediately. You can't really. be down to two traitors because what if. you're suddenly down to one traitor and. you know that's qu you have to protect. a a sort of a rump of traitors at all.

costs. Okay, there has to be traitors in. the game in order to deliver this show. to the BBC. And it's the thing we said a. million times before. I mean does it I. mean don't get rid of people early. It. doesn't matter. It's fun to watch. It's. fun to watch. So I think we all buy into. it and just go no this good. I'm pleased. with them that they managed to uh find. the person who' absolutely told them. 100% he was a traitor. But. >> yeah, >> they did it anyway. Um so yeah, what. Hannah could have done should have done. if I was Hannah is refused them. >> Yes. >> Uh and said, "Oh, and then got into. breakfast the next day, said they tried.

to recruit me.". >> That's what I thought she should. >> I said I said no. What would happen if. in that instance is the producers would. be very aware probably the next turret. that they can't tell them to recruit. again because it's it's too on the nose. So they would have to trust that they. were kept in and at the next available. opportunity either tell them they could. recruit or come up with a format point. whereby somebody is forced into the. turret. Just something a special shield.

in one of the games where you are forced. into the turret. >> and you win. You've won. What you've. actually won is a poison palace. >> to become a traitor. Exactly. You just. you have to do something to keep to to. keep bolstering those numbers. But yeah, Hannah should absolutely have said this. is this is not for me. >> If you've seen her YouTube, it's. hilarious. She's got this incredible. system, this mathematical thing, she was. talking about universes and groupings. and whatever. And she was able to sort. of rule people out as she thought or. that way. And yet when she was given the. binary choice, >> Yeah. >> in my view, she chose the wrong one.

>> Yes. because maths is all well and good. and it's incredibly useful if you are a. faithful cuz there are you know there. are groupings there are certain ways to. rule people out or rule rule people in. >> um but all the maths in the world don't. really help you when you're in that. chaos I think it's like playing chess. against a chimp it's like it's you might. know all the openings in the world it. doesn't if if they can just toss the. board up in the air it absolutely. doesn't matter if you are trying to put. the hold of traders in a spreadsheet and.

Jerry Hall is there. It's it's a. variable that she has absolutely no way. of including and and so I think that's. hard. I think it's also easier as a. faithful to have a spreadsheet and work. out the groupings. I think as a traitor. all of that goes out the window. The big. things in any sort of uh strategy are. >> uh quantitative and qualitative, right? Quantitative, what are the numbers? Qualitative, how do I feel? How are. people behaving? She's got all the. quantitative stuff absolutely wrapped. up. She seemed in that moment uh and by.

the way we would all collapse in that. moment to to not have a hold on the. qualitative side. >> I agree. Having said that, once she had. said yes, it was interesting. She was. talking about her strategy and she said, "I think I'm just going to tell lies as. close to the truth as possible.". >> Now, I would have simply said, "They. tried to recruit me, but I said no.". >> Yeah. >> She didn't say that either. Yeah. Yeah. >> As her as her as her game plan out in. the castle the next day. I would have.

just said they tried to recruit me. I. said no. You can see no one's been. murdered. You can see. >> I think you might have got away with. that. She told Joe about the existence. of her spreadsheet which was quite. helpful. >> You wouldn't be bothering doing that if. you were a treasure. I don't think. >> but again you people must have watched. the show. So you go back into breakfast. and everyone is still there. Okay. So we. know one thing which is there's been a. recruitment but that didn't seem to be. the mood of the room when she walked in. The mood of the room is what's happened? How are you two back here? this is. suspicious you to her back. You just go, "Well, no, they've they've recruited.". And suddenly you have 20 suspect or 19.

suspects rather than two suspects. And. she didn't seem to do that. She didn't. seem to kind of offset that. And she. looked incredibly nervous, which I have. to say is absolutely to her credit. Yeah. >> Because, you know, she she she seemed to. be wearing her new status, >> not particularly lightly. >> Miranda's clocked it, >> you know. I mean, Miranda seems to. pretty much everything. >> An absolute fiend right now. >> Yeah, she's her Miss Marple energy. >> Yeah. >> Um,

>> well, she I mean, she will want I very. much hope some form of comedy female. detective series after this. >> Oh, yeah. I can imagine. Yeah. Yeah. That's a If she stays in long enough. >> Yeah. If she stays in long enough, this. is the sort of booking we're looking at. >> Yeah. Cuz the other thing is she doesn't. seem to have shown to the others that. she is able to she talks to the diary. room or whatever we want to call that. about what she thinks but actually. around the castle she can still be her. sort of oh no it's just yeah oh yeah of. course she hasn't worked this out. whereas there are four or five people.

there really working as detectives all. the time and you think oh it's not going. to work for you. >> well never this is the thing it Julie. adopting the psychotic traitor hunter. personality this early in the game. It's. like it's episode three. Yeah. >> It's really weird. You at this stage of. the game, you have people who foolishly. decide that it's this is the time to go. as a traitor hunter. Yeah. And then you. have slipstream people. Yes. And the. massive massive strategic advantage is. to be a slipstream people and just come. in behind and say, you know, because.

this this beautiful game that we all. love is very flawed. And one of the. things that I I know that the producers. will dis discourage these conversations. and will say this is unhelpful. We know. they've been edited out in the past. >> The the production stuff saying the. producers would not do this. >> Nobody says at the round table. Yeah. Nobody says round table. >> It makes sense for us not to get one. now, right guys? Because it spoils the. game for us to see them sing. But. therefore, they will have to come up. with bad reasons why they're literally. just joining the herd.

>> Yeah. >> Um and um they herded massively in I. mean it's Richard I think would just. have to keep as you say the miniseries. Okay. So how could you not? >> Yeah. But how could you not heard it? >> But as as as time went on in this. episode, we'll get to it, but they heard. it all over again. >> Yes. >> And had to come up with reasons why they. why they weren't hurting that it was all. just, you know, acting on hunches and. instinct. >> Yeah. Worth saying, by the way, when. we're talking about Richard, the most. obvious traitor in history, Ross Camp.

did not let us down with his reaction. He gave us a proper like get in there, like a real kind of Yeah. Instagram when. England score a goal reaction to that. He is non-stop. a great booking. >> Yeah. >> I mean just a great booking. >> He is the I wonder. Yeah. It'll be. interesting because there's always the. um when they become more paranoid, i.e. probably the next episode cuz they're. really ratching up so high now. Um they. will find his absolute 110% commitment.

to the tasks to be to be suspicious. >> because maybe only because they're going. mad. >> Yes, of course. They're going mad and. they need absolutely anything at all. >> They'll find that to be suspicious. >> Let's go to a break. Then we'll talk. about uh who got chucked off and why. And then we're going to talk about the. choice that the traitors have to make. and whether we think they made the right. selection of choices. And of those. people, who would be the right person to. go or who' be the right person to go and. who will actually go, which often two. different things.

>> [music]. >> This episode is brought to you by our. friends at Lloyds. >> Now, let's talk about movie con artists. Who are your absolute favorites? >> Movies, TV, and book, my answer is the. same, and it's Tom Ripley. >> I was going to say him. It's one of the. greatest characters of all time. >> So, from the Talented Mr. Ripley books. by Patricia Highmith, there's five of. them. So, if you like talented Mr. Ripley, you are in luck. He is like one. of the worst men in the world, but you. absolutely you root for him at all.

times. >> Now, of course, deception makes for. excellent entertainment on screen. In. real life, when it's your bank account. being targeted, the charm somewhat. disappears. >> Yep. Lloyds have invested 100 million. pounds in Darkhorse anti-fraud. technology, which combines intelligent. monitoring and real-time alerts to keep. you safe from fraud. Click on their app. or visit lloydsbank.com to find out more. about how Lloyds protects you from. fraud. AI powered scam checks, voice.

biometrics, and real-time alerts are. just some of the ways Lloyds are. protecting you based on Lloyd's Banking. Group data 2023 to 2025. [music]. Welcome back everybody. Now, let's get. straight into the mission. Yes. Um, can. we do the preamble bit of the mission. first? Of. >> course. >> Because James Blunt, >> oh my god, he's brilliant. >> Okay, sorry. Quick briefing and then I'm. going to like designate roles.

>> He is such a cavalry officer. >> He's great. >> He's It's a very particular thing. If. anyone from who's familiar with the army. is listening to this, he is such a. cavalry officer. And Ross Kemp is so. from a tank regiment. And that right. there is the entism in the British Army. And it's always been like that. And. there's a lot of banter between the two. groups, but they it's right there for. you to see. >> God, that's interesting. What is the. different the cavalry officers? >> The cavalry officers are all like. Roberts and they're all like and yeah, there's always, you know, they're. messing about with their spurs and you.

know in the old days. >> and then you know just someone who's. just going to literally just don't. worry, I don't need a battle ring ram. I'll just use my head. That's which was. didn't say but could. >> might as well have done. Uh but I love. the fact that everyone's very very. comfortable with James doing that. >> Yeah. It's not like, "Oh god, who's this. guy who's now sort of telling us how to. do the task?" He literally says stuff. They all go, "Uhhuh." Yeah. So, oh go. there. Yes, sir. >> A hypnotist. >> Yeah. It's amazing. But he's right as. well. It's like every task starts. quickly because he's worked out exactly. how to do it. And then you see as it.

goes on and on and on. Yeah. He's he's. he's sort of he's kind of back in Paris. with a cigar in his mouth while Kemp is. absolutely just sort of down in the. fist. Absolutely just getting it all. done. Uh it's a it's kind of a perfect. combination the two of. >> James Blunt is drinking Clara in the. shadow and [snorts]. scam is dying in the mud. >> Yeah. But Blunt's done his work. >> That's right. >> You know, >> it is what it is. >> Yeah, it really is what it is. Uh and. the task I mean, you know, very very. rarely do the task matter as we know.

But actually, I think James and Ross. being good at the task is quite useful. for them. You know, they sometimes go, "Oh, perhaps I'm being kept in because. I'm good at tasks." And by the way, that's never happened. But it sort of. feels you might keep the two of them in. because they are quite good at those. tasks like Joe in a funny kind of way. You think well he always absolutely puts. his uh and so for Blunty and for uh. Kempy I think it sort of might. see. >> but they may go so as I said earlier. they may go so paranoid. I thought that.

this mission was actually relevant. because the behavior was so nervy and. awful with these the business of the. shields. >> Hannah and Mahara, I was almost behind. my hands. It was quite there was a lot. of hesitancy there. >> I sort of felt if that was in a. Hollywood script, I would send it back. and go, you you haven't quite nailed. what's happening here. It was never. neither of them ever quite got to the. heart of what it was they were accusing. the other of. >> No. and the clarity and and the clarity.

of saying well hang on let's use it to. protect both of us they no one had that. line. >> and Hannah when it was said to her was. like okay okay they were not together in. the moment at all what that did mean was. that Maya got away with hers because she. was very reticent in her behavior when. asked to give up the shield you know. they had to both give the answer is they. had to both give up these shields to. make this. >> you know something work and there were. three shields. >> some yeah um and she sort of got away. with it Um because otherwise her. behavior was also kind of suspicious and.

kind of somewhat underhand in a way that. would just make people think, "Oh, I. think you behaved in a sneaky way." And. we know in this game that if they see. anything that appears to be sneaky, they. just assume it's traitor behavior where. most likely and actually nine times out. of 10 it isn't. >> Yeah. Traitor behavior is not doing. anything. >> Yeah. So I guess we have to get onto the. round table and. >> Julie saw that wink again. My whole I. don't know. Yeah. cuz she was she had. the potential to be a good player but. she went.

>> she became very emotional at the round. table that again nervy and tearful no. traitor losing your call matters I think. the fact that she was nervous you know. this is why they were saying oh I don't. like this Miranda was saying I don't. really like having to vote for this but. they regard nervy and tearful behavior. as suspicious even though every single. time you've ever watched the UK format. of this game civilian and celebrity. traitors don't go to pieces in that. moment they're really ultra rational. they argue their way and if they get. found they get found out. >> unless they're under immense. >> You've never seen anybody cry who is a.

traitor. >> Yeah. It's it's you are crying at the. injustice of the fact you're about to be. voted out and a traitor is. >> what you always said the bit you. couldn't stand is that if you were wrong. >> if I was a faithful oh my god it's like. if people were turning on me and saying. that because I'd winked at Richard E. Grant I was like I was trying to be nice. and I couldn't get it back because the. suddenly as you say the the herd of. people was coming towards me I would. lose my mind. [laughter]. I really would. I know you would. I I.

would stand there and just go, "This is. absolutely unacceptable what's happening. here. We need to rewind now for half an. hour. We need to go through logically. step by step." And that there'll be at. least seven people going, "No, but I I. do not wish to do this.". >> I'm sorry, Richard. I've heard enough. >> Yes. [laughter]. >> Whatever you say, it's like, and. actually honestly, it's do the opposite. at this stage. >> I think one of the few people really to. come out with credit from the round. table was James Acaster. Yeah. >> Right. if he had a different personality. type, I think it'd be one of the. greatest tracers of all time. It says,

"Earlier in the day, I was going to. plant something about Michael." And he. planted something very gentle. He just. said, "I was just thinking that if. Richard wanted to recruit that he'd like. to hang out with. >> Michael Sheen." And then when you go. around, he just goes, "I'm going for. Michael. >> as I said." And he thinks it's just. sorry, just let me leave this glove. there and we'll see if anyone picks that. up in act two. You know, it's a really. lovely little gentle way of playing the. game which might bear fruit uh in the. next couple of episodes because people. go, "Oh yeah, who was it?" Yeah, James. Akas has said Michael, didn't he? That's.

an interesting theory. You know, when. you run out of other theories um I've. got some absolutely crazy ones. So, yeah, >> I do think having said that Julie's kind. of gung-ho traitor hunter persona, which. is now already got her into trouble. because she was so sure about Mahara. Yeah, >> I think Kenny is one to watch. He's. almost playing in the way that I thought. Julie would play when I saw that she. was, you know, on the billing and I. thought that I thought there was a sort. of gentle doggedness to her. >> which she's gone full attack dog. Um, he.

is one to watch, I think, because he. voted for Jerry. >> Yeah. >> And my voted for Jerry, but there's a. sort of Jerry Leanne and Jerry there. I. >> think Sure. Okay. Maybe. >> Yeah. Okay. I do think Kenny is one to. watch. He could I think he could go. quite far. >> Yeah. And by the way, I think Judy. really pulled it back later in the. episode cuz she absolutely said, "Oh, cuz I think they you get drunk on power. when you get rid of a traitor, even if. it's the most obvious getting rid of a. traitor in history." And at the end.

where she sort of goes, "Oh, okay. I. see. I don't know anything." Okay, you. know what? I get it. >> She pulled it back with us, but I don't. know if she pulled it back with the. group. >> Yes. Oh, I know what you mean. Well, she's still got that initial suspicion. on her of her and Joe, which again, that's when you've got very little to go. on, that might be an easy thing to go on. cuz that would be a producers trick to. say one of those two. >> I feel that we're going to see her name. come up a lot more over the next couple. of episodes. >> Yeah. But I I I did it. >> It could all go wrong for her quite. quickly. >> Yes. She would be if if I were a. traitor, she would be someone I would.

try and start start going, let's you. know, because as a traitor, you got two. things to do. One is to just anytime. there's suspicion on anyone, you start to stoke it. You start to. agree with it. See if you can get a bit. of momentum. And then anyone you can't. do that with, you murder. >> You know, those those are the two things. to do. And anyone who gives you that. ammunition to get themselves voted out, >> you do not need to murder. You never. need to murder them. You just need to. keep stoking the fires just going, >> "No, Julie, no." Because of the.

beginning. No, I suppose so. And she was. Yeah, cuz who she voted for? You just. you just need to do that, you know, and. just kind of bring people in. Just go. No, because Rob's just saying, Rob, what. who were you saying? Julie, Rob says, which I which I haven't thought of. Oh, James. >> James Bond's big theory. She's in his. big theory. It's Julie, Bella, and Ross. Okay. [laughter]. >> So, >> that's zero from zero. >> I'm looking forward to to him going for. that one. But Miranda, as you say, in. the the equivalent of the diary room, whatever they call it, the sort of. throne room. Yeah. Uh is she says that.

Hannah didn't say what Mahala said in. the in the crypt, she's really got a lot. of things down. >> Yeah. I think you can really tell the. people who watch this show and that that. falls into two camps, which is the. people who watch this show say keep. quiet like Miranda and the people. [clears throat] who watch this show and. absolutely just play it to the fullest. degree like Bella. Yeah. >> Where you just actually is probably not. the right thing to do. But if you're in. there, you know, if you're given that. opportunity and there some, you know, better knows they're not going to sort. of get to the end because there's 21 of. them and it's quite hard to do. So if. you go in there, why not just absolutely.

go for it and and enjoy it as much as. you can. But the Miranda game, the way. to get through the Buster is like. Miranda, be smart, but don't tell anyone. you're smart or Joanne and absolutely. again be an agent of chaos and be kept. in for as long as possible. And also you. you want to keep her in cuz you think, well, this castle's more fun. You don't. think she's a threat? But I think she is. a threat. Threat's threat to get she's. No, they don't think she's a threat. She's a Yeah, exactly. There's one. something I wanted to mention. By the.

way, I. >> there will be people saying, "Oh, people. of color go early in this game and. things like that." I I by the way, I do. want to remind people in the last. Celebrity Tracers final of five people, it was David Ologa, Nick Muhammad, Cat. Burns, and Joe Mara and Alan Carr. I. don't believe people do have this theory. about the. >> traitors. >> I do wonder lots of reality shows. I. mean I mean the statistics back it up. but but traitors is is probably not the. worst offender. >> I do wonder if they pick off people.

subconsciously that they don't know. >> Yeah. >> And I think that you just she was a sort. of unknown quantity to them. My. >> got no previous friends in there. >> Yeah. >> And um you know even Sebastian has got. Sebastian's got Bella. There are sort of. alliances of various types. Yeah, Richard. They had to. They had to get. rid of Richard. They had to. So, despite. his status, despite the fact that lots. of them knew him, there's no way past. it. And then, yeah, suddenly they go. for, "Oh, who's Oh, she's great. We. don't know her.".

>> I think subconsciously they just. >> we've never been on eight out of 10 cats. with her. >> like a real like a real herd would be. >> Yeah. Just going, "Yeah, who's this? >> I don't know what this is, but this is. an interoper maybe.". >> And she didn't do herself a huge amount. of favors. There's there's ways and. means sometimes the best thing like when. you're a company and someone complains. sometimes it can be the best thing that. happens because the way you deal with. that actually cements them as a customer. for the rest of your life. If you are. accused of being a traitor and you deal. with it in a good way in a convincing. way you buy yourself like three or four.

or five round tables cuz everyone just. goes oh no do you remember when we were. accusing her earlier and absolutely she. came up with that reason so you know we. now think she's a faithful. If you can. be accused and absolutely come out. fighting, it can can be one of the best. things that happens to. >> I agree. Cuz you walk through the fire. and then you're but she wasn't. >> A lot easier said than done, especially. for her when she's in a a castle full of. people she doesn't particularly know. That's a tough place to be. >> I agree. It's very hard to form. alliances with people completely from. >> Yeah. And and hard to have the.

confidence to to defend yourself in a. smart way. Yeah. You know, is it very. very easy to crumble. >> and actually logically crumbling should. be to your assistance, but it never is. in this. It. >> never is. Yes. Exactly. >> I have to say something and I really. want your opinion on this. I find the. the traitors as we've got them now, the. three we've got now, it's quite a. rickety ship. I'm not like I'm not. feeling very confident at all at this. stage in the game. Normally, they're. doing exactly what they want. >> Um and they three episodes and they've. done exactly what they want. Any set a.

set set of three traders. this we've had people in out. >> Yeah, >> it it's there's no sense of cohesion or. or a unified strategy. We might get into. it now. >> Well, it was because of the cold open. for sure. Uh the Richard Grant stuff and. now it's look where is the center of. power in the traitors. You got Maya who. I think absolutely would be a very good. center of power but suddenly there's. Richard who's had to deal with that. That's firefighting. Then James has come.

in and James has got a very different. energy to her and could could be great. but she can probably sense that he's. uncomfortable and then Hannah comes in. You think well this is great because. we're going to have absolute kind of. clinical decision making and she's going. to be cleareyed and actually I think as. a traitor she is not as useful as she. was. >> as a three strong personalities pulling. in all different directions really. >> It's like the golden generation of. English football. How do you play. Lampard and Gerard together? that you're. so right. >> You know, they're all great, but they're.

all they they all sort of they don't. >> You're so right. >> That's exactly what this is. >> Yeah, that's exactly what this is. >> I mean, I think it's quite likely that. we lose another one pretty soon. It. feels to me. >> it they they can't be long for this. world. No, surely. I mean, surely it's. it does it just doesn't feel strong. enough. I think that So, let's talk. about the next um. >> murder. Uh, the names they've come up. with are James Blunt, Bella, and. Sebastian. By the way, I love that Bella.

and Sebastian are best friends. It's. like if there was someone they called. the Pacemakers and they were best. friends with Jerry. [laughter]. >> Uh, so those are the three choices. And. again, I just the only one I I agree. with is James Blunt. >> Yeah. >> Cuz again, that was James and he says, "Look, it it would just be chaotic." And. that's all they need to be at the moment. is just put it all back on the traitors. just give them a million different. questions cuz the more questions there. are, the easier it is for traitors to. sort of form a trend. You know, if there. are no questions, then the traitors.

can't do very much. >> And to scatter the opinions of of the of. the herd. >> Who on earth would kill James Blunt is a. very good question. >> You know, the Germans in World War II. >> Yes, [laughter] exactly. They would. never have been able to. No, >> they would never have been able to. because he was at a desk in Whiteall. [laughter]. >> Good luck. Uh, so that's the play. But. Bella and Sebastian, I think I think is. sort of nuts. Bella is going to get. voted out. Yeah, for sure. Better is. too, you know, visible and, you know,

has too many opinions and is clearly. enjoying the process too much to not be. a threat. >> Yeah. >> At some point, >> I mean, Sebastian, I guess, but it just Yeah. Take out a Blunty or a Kemp. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Or a sheen. You know what? Just. absolutely go in and knock out one of. the big struts. >> It's I Yeah, I feel they should be. getting rid of Miranda, but they don't I. think they don't know that. >> They don't. Yeah. No, she's been very. careful. >> Yeah.

>> So, yeah. I I getting rid of Sebastian. is totally pointless. I That's the most. pointless thing they could do. >> Given the three they've chosen, it has. to be James Blunt, as you say. >> I bet it won't be. >> So do I. Yeah, cuz and I have a theory. as well that if they get rid of Bella, then it will be proved that Sebastian is. a faithful. There's no way that. Sebastian would get rid of Bella. However, if they get rid of Sebastian, I. don't think it will help Bella because I. think they will all believe that uh that.

Bella's such a game player that that's. something that would, you know, work. is. I I just I I think that it's going to be. impossible for Bella to win this game. because she's too smart for it. But I. think yeah, if you get rid of So I mean, you know, I love Sebastian. Again, he's. one of those people I didn't. particularly know, but you know, and I. love the relationship that Sebastian and. Bella have. I think it's so wholesome. and charming and. >> people like him. People You can see that. people in there also didn't know him,

but now like him. Yeah, exactly. >> And just find him charming. >> Yeah. But yeah, Blunty would be the. play. Yeah, >> for sure. I mean, for TV, I don't I. would not want him to go. >> cuz I find him compelling to watch and I. I find him a very likable. >> personality, but if I was a traitor, I. could run him. But I don't think they. will. I I I think. >> I don't think they will either. >> Yeah. Who do you think they'll go for? >> Do they just think Bella's too. dangerous? >> I think they might go Bella. >> I think they might. >> You know, >> they don't have the confidence to think. >> this will be dealt with by the process.

>> Yeah. because they have had I mean it's. been such a fiasco so far. Yeah. So I'm. afraid they might have to just but that. is that that was the criticism that. Hannah made of the traitors which is. they're doing things that are obvious. They're doing things that are not. strategic. They're not you know she was. completely right. It was the best read. of what had happened. >> Now she might do exactly the same thing. >> Yeah. I agree. >> Yeah. Because Yeah. I I think yeah, Bella is the obvious thing to do and as.

a traitor, you should never ever ever do. the obvious thing. Also worth noting. that Bella has no correct suspicions. thus far. >> Yeah. >> You know, and and and so what's the. point? Whereas. >> the system would take care of Bella. >> Yeah. The system will take care of. Bella. The round table. >> I believe that they will try and take. care of Bella. >> Yeah, I think so, too. Yeah. I get rid. of Blunty. I don't want them to, but. that's what I would do. We need a good. couple of episodes for the traitors. because at the moment they are not a. team. They are absolutely they are three. individuals all of whom have very very.

uh useful skills but they they're just. not complimenting each other. >> at all. >> Unless they get to kahir we're going to. keep losing people off the traitors and. having to sort of. >> triggers broom it way. >> And just as James Aassa said it's like. the sugar babes. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. and and it will be. and again the producers don't massively. want that because it does slightly show. up the floor in the format which is. there's no point of getting rid of. people. So we'll be back here tomorrow. where we will find out who has been. kicked off. >> Uh we will find out I assume another.

round table uh who goes there and I. assume we'll find another we'll have. another little short list as well. So, the thing I love about this format so. much, I think it delivers so much more. than almost any of these shows because. there are like three big moments pretty. much in every single episode. Like three. big moments of Jeopardy. It's like. watching the World Darts. It's like it's. like Jeopardy, Jeopardy, Jeopardy. There's so little filler. >> Uh, >> it's the perfect reality scoring system. for you, isn't it? Oh my god. Yes. Delivers all the way through. >> Yeah. But I'm looking for genuinely a.

solid performance from the Traitors. tomorrow. That's what I want. I want. them to I want them to pull themselves. together. >> Yeah, >> that's what I would like. Whether they. do, I don't know. But listen, we'll we. will see you again tomorrow to talk. about who has gone off. If it is Blunty. or if it is Bella, uh they they'll. probably vote for Sebastian now. We've. said that. >> Yeah, it's not going to be Blunty. I. don't think. >> you don't think. No. >> Yeah, maybe. Uh but it's exciting either. way. But yeah, it hasn't I like it. hasn't found it hasn't just sort of.

settled. It still hasn't quite settled. But it's partly because of their weird. energy. We anyway, we'll get back to. this tomorrow, but their energy from the. beginning has been. >> hyper and paranoid. And it's. >> it is like we said funny before the. whole show started. It's almost like. they started with the same energy that. the last one ended with. >> and you can't you've got to go into it. gently. >> Yeah. >> You have to there's there's no point. playing this hard from from the start. because it's there's absolutely you gain. nothing by by going in all guns blazing. Well, they have and therefore we're.

going to see how this plays out because. the only way is to to more paranoia. really. >> Yeah, exactly. >> They can't calm down now. The more. institutionalized you get, the worse. it's going to be. So, we'll see. different things happening that we've. than we've seen before. >> Yeah, it's going to be great. Teddy, yeah, say that. Uh, brilliant. See you. tomorrow. >> See you tomorrow. >> See you tomorrow.