Reacting To The Celebrity Traitors Lineup

Hello and welcome to this episode of The. Traitors Entertainment with me Marina. Hyde. >> And me Richard Osman. Hello everyone. Hi. Marina. Hello Richard. How are you? >> Very well. So nice to see you. >> It is very nice to see you and I'm very. pleased with the timing of our show this. week because there was a huge. announcement over the weekend. Was there. not? Um yes. Yeah. Celebrity Traitors. that lineup. I was trying to I was going. to do a joke but come on. Um yeah, so we're going to talk our way. through that celebrity Traitors lineup. and tell you who is going to win.

>> Oh my goodness. Okay, you can tell me. that. Um and we're also going to talk. about Linger, um a 33-year-old song by. The Cranberries which is sort of. everywhere at the moment. We're going to. talk about when a song blows up like. that in that way, sort of how and why it. happens. >> Yeah. And also we are going to get. Marina's tip on who's going to be the. new Bond. [laughter]. Yeah, just sell shares in whoever I say. but I have got a tip. >> There have been developments. The Rest Is Entertainment is presented. by Octopus Energy. Admins tend to.

require a little bit of encouragement. So submitting your meter reading now. earns you a spin and the prospect of. being quietly rewarded for it. Yeah, you. can you spin you can win Octo points. which you can spend in the Shop to pus. The Shop to pus. I'm fair play. >> Well, whoever refuses a wheel and the. opportunity to get something for. nothing. >> actually one of the mainstays of game. shows, wheels, because it has a. randomness to it and I've spent like. weeks and weeks sitting just working out. the wheel just going okay, that's an. extra thousand that'll be two thousand. then you work out how many bad squares.

there are. By the way, there's no bad. squares on the Octopus one. But it's a. mesmerizing thing, isn't it? The thing. is. You want. >> watching it. They. slow They slow it down slightly. And. then you watch the contestant like. leaning in like it's going to make a. difference. >> So like lots of things with Octopus. Energy, they're very good at gamifying. lots of the sort of just normal stuff. that you have to do with your energy. provider and getting a free spin and. winning Octo points is a very good. example of that. With Octopus you submit. your meter reading, you get a spin and a. chance at Octo points for money off your. bill or to spend in the most aptly named.

Shop to pus. Okay, we better get on to Celebrity. Traitors. Yeah. Chop me a thesaurus cuz. I'm going to need new words of saying. incredible booking. Um I have to say. shout out to the people as always who. when this list came out said. there aren't any celebrities on it. [laughter] I know. I'm so sorry that you. don't participate in like contemporary. entertainment culture. but you don't need to advertise it. Can. you feel free for us not to hear from. you about this? There are celebrities on.

this list. >> out shout shout out to the whole crew. Oh my god, I can't stand it. Okay, I'm. There are celebrities on this list and. there are some absolutely bangers in. here. It's interesting with with 21. people you start looking through it and. you go okay, that's good and then you. look through it again and you think oh, I've missed them. Oh, I've missed them. >> Yeah, yeah. And you think of all the. potential alliances and potential buddy. movies. Um how should we do it? Should. we just sort of go through them cuz some. people might not know the whole list but. certainly if you do know it you'll want. to know who's going to win. There's a.

lot of comedians. Yes, too many I think. It's interesting that. they've put both Rob Beckett and Romesh. Ranganathan in who obviously do very. many things together. But I sort of feel. now light entertainment, it's like. Romesh is now it's almost like he's one. of the building blocks of life itself. You know, we're not on a planet. They. say well, there is water so life can be. supported. [clears throat] In light. entertainment now it's like is Romesh on. there? Okay, life can be supported. >> problem with Romesh is he's brilliant. Yeah. >> And he's brilliant at everything he does. and he's a really really nice guy.

But yes, it it it's it's one of those. things that it has a ubiquity to it. I. think the interesting thing with Rob and. Romesh is they I think well, put them in. it's it's always fun to put a. partnership. in like like like like a double act or. or or a husband and wife. I don't think enough people know they're. a partnership. I don't think enough. people have seen Rob versus Romesh and. those things so I I think it's just two. more. comics to go with. Joe Lycett and. James Acaster. All very different. comics. But I don't Yeah, they can't do. that thing where they make.

[clears throat] one of them a traitor. and one I think it would I actually. think that's too obvious. Yeah, I can't. think I don't think they can do that. thing where they make one the traitor. and one. >> But the problem is because you've got. nothing to hold on to in those early. weeks people would assume they've done. that anyway so it's certainly a hiding. to nothing. I mean Romesh would be. delighted to be voted out after a day. He's got he's so busy. Um but that is the thing with Romesh. He. does he does do everything but he does. everything well. >> Yeah. You know, it it it's. what are you going to do? Um Acaster. will be fascinating. Anyone who has a. public image which feels slightly.

heightened version of themselves. >> Yeah. James slightly does. >> Yes. Uh although it's not particularly. heightened version of of of himself. I. think it's fascinating to see them after. a couple of days in that house. I think. in the same way that. we we we have a Joe Wilkinson. But yeah, I think having four male comics there um. I think is I understand why you're not. going to say no to James. You're not. going to say no to Joe and then the Rob. Romesh thing as a partnership. But I. think actually I think actually Joe and. McNally. might be the most successful of those. comics. >> Yes.

Fewer people know her. I mean lots of. people do know her. She's got a lot of. profile in the last couple of years but. I think I think people will. really fall in love with her and I think. she won't take any nonsense from. >> be a bit of a dark horse I think. A bit. like actually Sharon Rooney. I think she. could be a bit of a dark horse. >> Yes, everyone who meets Sharon Rooney. falls in love with her. Yeah, and I I. think she could be very very good. Ingrid when the list came out just went. I cannot believe. they've got Sharon Rooney. I was like yeah, no I think it's I think. it's good booking. She goes but why. would she do it? She says really really. interesting that she would do that. You.

know, to write literary novels and then. I said I think I I think that is Sally. Rooney. Oh my god. >> yeah. That would have been the most. hilarious booking of all time. I Yeah, I. know it's when I saw King Kenny I was. like oh my god, they've not got. Dalglish. >> Yeah. If I would have I would be unable. to speak still now if Kenny Dalglish was. going on it. >> So King Kenny is an influencer and it it. tells you about the march of time that. it's acceptable to call yourself King. Kenny. Yeah. >> [laughter]. >> There's a new There's a new King Kenny. in town.

>> Is that okay Is that okay now? Well, I. am shocked but apparently it's okay. Yeah. >> I've only just got over there being a. new Kylie. Now we've got a new King. Kenny as well. Yeah, I know that all. still feels sacrilegious to me Kylie. Um. so King Kenny a little bit in the Nico. Mirallegro they even do stuff together, don't they? They're some sort of various. YouTube collaborations. And the one one. of those guys going to have to survive. the first few days if he wants to go all. the way. Because as we always say this. is very very different to the civilian. version because they they know who each.

other is and if they don't actually know. who you are then they might not. necessarily think then there is less. natural deference to you than there. would be. in the civilian version where no one. knows who anybody is. Again, it's interesting having in the. civilian versions where you can't to. even have had one line on Casualty. people think you're the master of. deviousness. You have to completely hide. that you ever once played an extra in. something in case people are like. >> [gasps]. >> they're an actor. Well, obviously here. we have many actors. And we really do.

have many actors. We have. the CD Emery of the of the piece is. Richard E. Grant. Yes, I saw his. daughter said um my daughter says I'm. incapable of hiding anything I feel. about anybody which is certainly true in. my experience. But that's what you want there, don't. you? Given some of the people he's in. there with. You want to hear you want to. hear his opinion on them. Well, I wonder whether you will I think. there's a touch of the Stephen Fry to to. that booking, I must say. And and to and. to have the performance will play out. Okay, that's interesting.

>> Uh I think there is a there's a central. quintet who I feel the house is going to. revolve around. and that is. Sheen. Sheen, obviously. >> From Michael Sheen's House of Games. >> Yeah. By the way, when we did our. Q&A episode the other day and we're. doing people who always get called the. wrong names and Gabby Logan and Gabby. Logan and so on. I forgot of course that. Michael Sheen and Martin Sheen is the. absolute exemplar of that. It's in a. Times headline maybe this morning. I. read it I read a Times article about.

this cast list this morning. We're. recording on Monday morning and it says. Martin Sheen in the headline which again. I'm not disappointed it's Michael Sheen. at all but Martin Sheen would have been. Can you can you imagine? So I think. there's five people in the middle of. this who who are the sort of. the sort of middle-aged bedrock Okay. >> of this thing around which the ships. will sail. Michael Sheen. Amol Rajan and by the way, all big. personalities in different ways. >> on it. God knows he can't keep a secret. Miranda Hart who we'll get on to. Julie.

Hesmondhalgh. Yeah. And. >> Ross Kemp. Now that's. >> that is a booking. >> That is a really really good booking. And that's got everything because you've. got fame. you have got a personality type that. that doesn't necessarily conform to the. norms and you've got someone who will. take the Traitors very very very. personally in a Joe Marler type way. which is exactly what you want. And also. the most recent documentary that he did. which was sort of about incels and.

things like that. It's really. interesting. One of the most interesting. things I've seen on a documentary. because kind of when these documentaries. happen they've pursued a certain line. and you know what you're doing and you. know what you're making really before. you turn up. In the moment someone tells. him some statistics about incels which. effectively completely pull the rug. under from the document the documentary. that he thinks he's making and he. actually rather than say well, we won't. use that because unfortunately we've. gone quite a long way here. He. completely sort of unpicks the whole. thing in the moment and says.

okay, well, that I'm just changing my. preconceptions completely. And actually. to do that live in the interview and it. you know, it's obviously not been. broadcast live but the moment he found. it out, that is someone who actually. might play the game well because the. whole problem with this game is that you. get you do go mad in the castle. You get. this kind of idée [clears throat] fixe. and you think it's this person it's this. person it's this person and you can't. get off it or you don't look at the. right people. To see him do that in the. moment which is very unusual for a. documentary maker these days in the type. of documentaries you watch. I think that.

shows he's quite a sort of independent. thinker. But also, who who who is the. alpha of the house? I do think the alpha. of the house is either Ross or Julie. Hesmondhalgh because she again is one of. those people. Everyone knows who she is, of course, and she's known best as an. actor, but I think people have seen her. enough as herself to know what sort of. human being she is. But I think she is. somebody who everyone is going to. gravitate towards and everyone is going. to orbit around. I think that Kemp and. Hesmondhalgh, if either of those are a traitor, I.

think it's Imagine if they make Ross. Kemp a traitor. I want him to be a traitor hunter. personally, I have to say. >> Yes, yeah, agree with that. >> Can I just say Jerry Hall Interesting, yeah. >> this chapter for her. She's been. released from that marriage to, you. know, media's messy [ __ ] Rupert. Murdoch. Remember that fantastic first. story all of which is about two or three. years ago all about the Murdoch. succession drama, and there was so many. amazing details in it, one of which was. that after he. got rid of her by email. many months later that she discovered.

that the security cameras in her house. were still beaming back the footage. to Fox News headquarters and Mick. Jagger's security guys have to come in. and take it all out of her. Can I just. say. I love this chapter for her. One wild my. Texan queen, you deserve this. She feels. like someone though who if it's not fun. after 24 hours will just go I'm actually. going to shoot off. Really? I think she. feels like a trooper who can see some. really bad situations through. Oh yeah, maybe. Listen, yeah, listen, I guess I. guess if you can stay married to Rupert.

Murdoch that long you can stick a hand. in a cast for six days. Um they're going in today by the way. They're supposed to be going in as as as. we're speaking. They're they're filming. it this week. >> Bella Ramsey. Yeah. >> that is huge. Last of Us is basically. almost the biggest show, you know, it's. one of HBO's biggest shows that's ever. ever ever been. >> Well, yeah, there'll be some names on. this list that perhaps some people don't. know who are actually sort of among the. biggest names. Mahala. Um Mahala as. well. >> on a yacht slay. From uh. Cannot wait. What? Like sorry, just some.

of the listeners need to be right. She. is an absolute queen. I mean I want her. to be a traitor. Yeah. >> Is it just cuz I've from industry you. want her to be a traitor? >> Yes. Um I don't think you can bring in. an American and make them a traitor. Why. can't you? >> know. I just think I I I think it feels. off. Does it? >> Yeah, I think so. I. I think it's sort of unacceptable. I. think they want someone like that. >> to be unexpected because people have or. you know, people have got. >> that would be expected. I think they go. oh course they're going to make you a. traitor because of cuz of the role that.

she plays. Bella Ramsey is very very. interesting, neurodivergent. Last year, do you remember Kat Burns? It's also sort of neurodivergent and she. said it helped her to be very sort of. cool and calm and much more detached. Um. Bella Ramsey has said. um heightened sensitivity to social cues. and microexpressions, insane levels of. visual perception. Amazing. >> Is the way that their particular brand. of neurodivergence has been. self-described by the way. So. could be an excellent player. And I.

think will be. We've got Jerry Hall can. take under her wing Leanne Pinnock and. Maya Jama. That's that's going to be a. group of people who will who will enjoy. each other's company surely. There's so. many people in this show. Every time you. look down the list I'm I'm still missing. a couple of my favorites who I'm who I'm. going to get to who I'm going to get to. at the end. >> there's one massive favorite of mine. Oh. really? Listen, should we do that? Who's. >> [clears throat]. >> Who's your favorite? >> two massive favorites. First of all our. stablemate, Hannah Fry. >> Correct. >> this is absolutely great for her. I. think she's about to blow up even more.

>> Amazing. She is very much the Nick. Mohammed Yeah. >> of the piece. And and also, you know, sort of in a similar role to Nick. Mohammed as well. But less likely to. actually maybe get in her head in the. last I don't know. Anyone can, [laughter] anyone can. That's the beauty. That's the beauty of the traitors. Funnily enough. the cleverer you are. the harder you fall. Oh, for definite, for definite. And the more you're. perceived as a sort of automatic. authority figure it can be. >> But you know, if if for example there's. a head, you know. Professor Hannah Fry and Ross Kemp are.

going you know, knocking chunks out of each other across. the across the eviction table, that I. would like to watch. >> don't know how I'd call it on four. there. I mean but. >> But I can tell you that Mr. James Blunt. >> Yes. Correct. Those are the two I was naming. >> I love him. I almost want to group him. in with the comedians. Perhaps we should. have. >> Yes. I like I I was going to group him. in with the Rajan Kemp heart axis, but I. think actually they he he is he he sits. somewhere outside of that. Yeah, he is. um he will not get inside his own head.

particularly, I don't think. No, but he. will he will I think charm people who as. you say he has the capacity to be funny, but he also has the capacity to say. well, the thing is about me is I'm just. a simple musician, I'm not a comedian, I'm not an actor. I'm just a guy in a. castle and this is how I see it, which. is a a useful way to play it. Yeah, he's. been in the army, can deal with, you. know, the sort of terrible light. entertainment privations of this show. >> Yes, Ross Kemp can talk to him about. being in the army. That'll be Ross Kemp can talk to all of. these people about something. About yes, absolutely. One of the people here I I.

wasn't aware of, I am now cuz I've. looked at his work, is Sebastian Croft, who will bring a constituency to it. Yeah, because big in his demographic, you know, actor musician. >> [gasps]. >> But as I say as we said just before, it's it's difficult when you're one of. the younger people. There is a sort of. natural age difference in the show or at. least certainly was last time. Um to kind of hang on through those. first few days cuz if they don't know. who you are they're rather more. comfortable with dispatching you. But then, you know, lots of people who. didn't know who Kat Burns was. Yeah, of.

course. And it depends what role they. have in the game. Yeah. I mean that is a big miss for me, I have. to say about this booking list. There. you know, now I know it's not Kenny. Dalglish, there's no one from sport. Yeah, yeah. >> that I think that's I it's a shame they. didn't have someone from sport. I might. have lost a comedian and had someone. from sport to be perfectly honest. Yes, I know exactly what I mean. And by the. way, >> [clears throat]. >> cuz of the way these things work, they. probably had one three days beforehand. then Yeah. >> I've I've heard the names of a couple of. people who pulled out who would have. been a lot of fun I think, but it's.

I think they've landed upon a very. interesting group and there's enough. people in there, the James Blunts of. this world, the Hannah Frys of this. world, who you know are just going to be. great characters in there and going to. bring an incredible presence to it. Maybe they've got a sport back up. because there's a definitely one in. there that I think could go to pieces. and not stay the distance. So there's. there's you know, they maybe they've got. someone that they're going to bring in. just in case. >> That's interesting. Uh Do you want to be quoted on it who.

you think that is? No. Okay. Okay, I got. you. So I'm thinking I'm. the producer of. Celebrity Traitors. I'm not, I'm this is. a thought experiment. Um I wouldn't. honestly, I wouldn't be here. if I was the producer of it. Above all. you are professional. I'd be up at the. castle in Scotland. But if I was. choosing the traitors. who would I go for here? I'd definitely. go for. Sheen. Yeah. >> Martin Sheen I would have. Maybe even Michael.

I would go for Sheen, I'd go for a. youngster and I'd go for Jerry Hall. So. maybe I'd have Michael Sheen, Maya Jama, Jerry Hall. as my traitors something like that just. to start with. Just unbelievable trio. I. cannot believe they've not worked. together before. Yeah, as I say I. I don't think they'll split up Rob and. Romesh. I think. >> I. hope they don't cuz it's too I think. that is too Well, cuz it's much funnier. >> Yeah, but I really want the two of them. to, you know, suspect each other but both be innocent.

That's the funniest story line there. >> agreed. >> [clears throat]. >> If they're both assuming that one of. them is a traitor. And you know, they I. imagine that some of the buttons they. will push, some of the little tasks that. people have to do, I imagine they will. try and to turn. Romesh and Rob's suspicions on each. other. But is that who I would go for? I. would definitely go for Sheen. Yeah. Although he'd be funnier as a You have. to think who's funnier as a faithful. And Sheen would be a funny faithful. because he gets very very very. passionate. Yeah. And you know, he's.

they we've seen his rousing speeches. before. Oh yeah, I mean I want to see. him lead a faithful's revolt. But as a. Even better doing it as a traitor. >> traitor. [laughter]. I think that's great, isn't it? And also. he would he would sort of relish it. Is the truth. It's interesting what they do. I mean. and. we already know that the contestants. last time were turned onto the idea that. oh hang on, they're not going to make. all the traitors like all white or or. men or they're just not going to do. that. It's interesting whether they I.

think. they might be able to just change things. and flip things a bit because anything. when it's become just too expected. >> Yeah. But they could definitely do three. women. Yes, for sure. Yes. >> If you had Julie Hesmondhalgh, Joe. McNally and Jerry Hall. as your traitors I mean right from the. beginning. I mean you know, it's. that feels potent. They could do that. I. think. being funny we know as another sort of. just to go off on another tangent. Being. funny we know is. very helpful.

because it's a great deflection tool. But it's a kind of misrepresentation of. what Alan Carr did in winning that show. to think that's all he did cuz he was an. unbelievable reader of each situation. and he just made it look easy, but he. was a deadly reader of situations. Um and so you have to actually also be. that as well as just. >> Yeah. I think I think if they're going. to have a comic as a traitor, I don't. think they can have Romesh because they. would be aware of that ubiquity thing. And if suddenly he's right in the heart. of your thing, that's an impossibility.

I don't think they can have Rob because. of what we're talking about that it's. funnier if neither of them are there. Joe McNally I think they definitely. could. A caster would be much funnier. uh trying to find a traitor Agreed. >> than being a traitor. So Joe McNally or. Joe Lycett would be the two comics you. think you think might be might be. traitors. It's what a great thing to be. This is as close as television ever gets. to like the World Cup or something. >> I do think the other thing one other. thing I wanted to say which is that um. just trying to remember about what it. was like watching it last time.

I did There was sort of deference to. Stephen Fry because he's Stephen Fry and. he's like a particular stripe of. national treasure. There was deference. to Jonathan Ross because they felt he. was a complete sort of master of. understanding the game. He'd watch every. single thing that you know, that he. fully understood the game. But in other. ways it it's interesting cuz I think. they slightly struggle people who are. famous with fating kind of one over. anyone else. So whereas Joe Lycett would. have been celebrated as a traitor hunter.

in the. civilian version of the game and would. have been the hero of the bar afterwards. etc. They're not brilliant at sort of. going all behind one person. [laughter]. Yes, because yeah, I but I love the body. movies of it. I just keep thinking like, oh my god, imagine if you know, like. Jerry Hall and James Acaster become. developers or you know, obviously Joe. Lycett and Ross Kemp just develop a. bromance. Please, if they develop a. blunt and Kemp if they develop a sort of. Mahler. Muhammad style bromance, I will be 100%.

here for it. Or Mahler and like Judy Hasmon Halsh. something like that. There's something. yeah. It could [clears throat] be you. want to see those alliances that you. have not seen before. I feel like the. female side of this cast list. has an awful lot more surprises and an. awful lot more potential. I think the male side is very funny. and there are some great big characters. there but I think in the female side of. this there are some very very. interesting personality types that I did. It's Listen, it's going to be.

magnificent. Of course it is. And the lovely thing is. we've got like five more years of this. at least. Surely. Let's just not mess it up. Definitely. Let's not mess miss it up. for us all. It's amazing how good they are at. keeping it secret now. When you would. see how big it is and that you know, they're at the airport getting every. photo of them coming off the planes. It's Well, that's why they've that's why. they've released it this year. Because. yeah, cuz otherwise all you got to do is. camp up at Inverness Airport and you.

know every single person who's on it. because no celebrity is being driven to. Inverness unless they live in Fort. William. Which I just don't think Jerry does. >> [laughter]. >> I don't think she does. I think I. believe she lives in a fort. I do not believe she lives in Fort. William. Richard, I couldn't pick it but who do. you think could win this? Sort of depends who the traitors are but. let's let's assume there's a a 50/50. chance a traitor wins or a faithful wins. anyway, which the statistics are not.

crazily different from. I would say. can I pick three people? Yeah. James Blunt. I was going to say yeah. Jo. Brand Manley. Yeah. Judy Hasmonhalgh. Those are my three. I'm I'm not saying anyone outside that. Professor Hannah Fry. will be great but I think I I think. again she'll be she will be too. for people. If anyone as we know who is. recruited late to become a traitor, if. it's any of those would be the strongest. position and any of those could take it.

then particularly if someone I think. like someone like Judy Hasmonhalgh. especially if she's functioned as some. kind of slightly mother-like figure. within the. kind of reality TV family. And you know, it's Listen, we must never bet and I. said just a reminder that you know, we. predicted who was going to win the last. one and we we did not predict Alan Carr. but I don't suppose anybody in Britain. predicted Alan Carr. Certainly after the. first episode. >> [laughter]. >> And that's and that's the joy of the. format. Well, I must say we will be talking. about it non-stop when it's happening. It will probably be in October I should.

think. After the break, James Bond and the Cranberries. united at last. >> [music]. >> This episode is brought to you by Lloyds. who you can rely on to keep life running. smoothly. Now, you know what isn't. celebrated enough is the behind the. scenes work that makes successful. entertainment seem so smooth. You know, you go on to any sort of set and there's. the talent and everyone's you know, having to run around after them but the. people having to run around after them.

are the runners and there is not a. single successful television show that. isn't powered by brilliant runners. Whenever you hear a director or actor. say, you know, we're all just one big. happy family. I always think, yeah, and. you're the children and the people who. are like running around are actually. always the youngest people on set cuz. runners are always really young. It's. their absolute first job in the. business. And the other key thing is if. the runners are good, you don't notice. them cuz nothing goes wrong and is very. similar to your bank. You just need them. to be there when you need them. Well,

like with the Lloyds app you can check. lots of handy things, little details, what payments you have coming up, what. subscriptions you're paying for. It is. this kind of helpful smart stuff that. makes 14 million people bank on Lloyds. And that's based on Lloyds internal. customer data from March 2026 but we. just want to say thank you to all the. runners and thank you to Lloyds. >> [music]. >> Welcome back everybody. Now, as promised. we're going to be talking about Linger, a song you might have heard it all over. the place recently. It's 33 years old.

It's a Cranberries song. And I think the back story of the song. was that um it was one of the very first. ones if not the first song they sort of. wrote and yes, I think Dolores O'Riordan. wrote it when she was 17. Yeah, I think. she'd been like dumped at a disco or. something or yeah, anyway. >> [laughter]. >> It's now getting millions of streams a. day and. sort of one I think it's so interesting. I want to talk about what happens, how. do songs suddenly seem like they're. everywhere in the air and have that big.

cultural moment. Given how many big. songs there were in the 90s, how comes. just a couple of them really really rise. to the top and become normo hits? Yeah, a big part of it normally is sync which. is you know, the the the soundtracking. of things that you might be watching or. what have you. So. Linger was in because it we should say. there were bigger Cranberries hits which. were also did have done very well out of. sync which is something like Dreams used. to be the bigger one.

And Zombie yeah. And and and those still by the way have. a life. I mean, I saw something in the. cinema the other day and saw all right, Dreams is back on the the trailer thing. but. Linger was in Samurai Town Pretty which. became a sort of huge hit and also and. this is the big one of the big drivers. is it was in Love Story. The right. Murphy thing about. Carolyn Bessette and John F. Kennedy Jr. So if you look the Billboard have got a. thing called the top TV songs and you. can see yeah, it's really quite hard to.

find on their sort of. website but and Apple actually do these. things charts of what are the big things. and Love Story totally dominated that. chart and they had. >> [clears throat]. >> I think. Linger was only the only thing bigger. than it was Fade Into You, Mazzy Star. from Love Story as well. I know. Yeah, I know. It does take you really. takes you back. But actually in the case. of Linger a big part of speaking to. people sort.

in the case of Linger. There's something like Stranger Things. where you know, it's to do with sync and. it's. Kate Bush. that's I think We're Alone Now, all of. those things. So part of the reason it. explodes is that for obvious reasons we. all know, there is so much content, there's more than there's ever been and. people are soundtracking their own lives. with this stuff. and posting them. and when. these things. get put into playlists and people you. know, your Spotify algorithm notices. never getting skipped, then they push it.

even further. Netflix shows help because they have the. most eyeballs probably but if you look. at something that happened like I don't. know, Heated Rivalry that which was on. this that Canadian streamer Crave but it. went to HBO. The thing what happened to. Tattoo then where they had Tattoo in a. sort of club scene it became absolutely. huge. So talking to people who are sort. of involved in this, it's really. interesting. I find the moment in the. drama that it's played makes a massive. difference to how big the song gets. So.

that's the absolute yeah, that's an. absolute gold standard of this. Samurai Town Pretty, it was really in a. scene I don't know if you've seen the. show. If you haven't seen the show, it. doesn't matter but it was in a scene. sort of break up type of yearning. That. word we're going to come back to. yearning. It feels like we've been. talking about yearning for two years but. it's just a kind of big zeitgeist word. of the time. In Love Story, it was the morning after. Carolyn Bessette and John F. Kennedy Jr.

first woke up after having slept. together. So it was the next day. Tear. jerkers really help. If you can get your artist's song on a. two-minute emotional scene. This is why. the kind of big big sync moments used to. be things like the John Lewis ad. or the X Factor finale or something like. the Big Brother finale used to be this. kind of So you might have a band like I. don't know, like Elbow or something who. might be sort of naturally indisposed. shall we say to having their music on. Big Brother or whatever but it's like,

sorry, you're getting a two-minute. montage of all the best things in the. you know, in the highs and the lows. You it can move it to number one the. next day. And I was thinking about this and. thinking, oh my god, what There's. certain songs I can't hear without being. completely taken back to the moment to. the sync moment. And actually for. football fans of a certain age, you want. to listen to Cast Walk Away. Okay. We're so old. Okay, fine. So they played. that when when when England got knocked.

out of the BBC did a montage at the end. of England's run in Euro 96 when they go. out in the semis. and I am still completely back there. when I hear that song. And actually. I literally this morning on the tube on. the way here watched it. You can see it. on YouTube. I'll put it in the show. notes. And if you saw me shed a genuinely shed. a tear because it's so evocative. And. actually what I'd forgotten is that Des. Lynam says, "You better remember where. you were where you were watching this.

tonight because in 30 years time someone. will probably ask you it's 30 years to. the day now." That sync moment of Cast. No Away is I cannot hear that song. without just feeling you know Terry. Venables put his head in his hands. It's. it's so evocative. So That's good cuz I. thought well I didn't know what you were. going to say but then I'm going to I'm. going [laughter] to follow up by by. talking about Walk Away by Cast. >> Also we have so many montages now and. ever since everything's gone digital. it's incredibly I don't want to say it's. incredibly easy to make a good one cuz. it's always hard to make something great. but it was so skilled to make those.

montages particularly at the end of. tournaments or in the case of this at. the end of. you know the national side winning a. tournament and to make them and to make. them effecting is a huge skill and. people really look for I mean not to. that one but in general you looked. forward to them because they were you. know yeah let's talk about one we can. all enjoy. The one at the end of. Wimbledon. But also anyone listening to. this who's not from England would laugh. their heads off at that by the way. So. for any anyone from England you can. watch that and. you'll be crying. Anyone else have a.

have a little look at that. Oh my god. you will you will. love it. Anyway but what's happened is. that because the whole business of. soundtracks in general has completely. changed. In the old days soundtracks. would sell millions of copies you got a. great soundtrack people would go and buy. all this. Now you see the film or watch. the episode and you're like oh my god I. and you can stream it on your way out of. the cinema or the second the credits. roll. So it's difficult for record. labels who are thinking how in this era. where there's more content than than. anything and these songs can blow up.

from whatever. Well like like Saturday. Night Fever the soundtrack is one of the. biggest selling vinyl albums in history. So if you're that record company and the. you know Bee Gees and you've got all. them and all sorts of people on that. That's there's hundreds of millions of. pounds to be made. from that soundtrack of that movie. And. that industry as you say has disappeared. and needs to be replaced with something. And you've got to be I mean in the new. Devil Wears Prada that it's when it. becomes a sort of plot point it's. amazing. There's a. Lady Gaga and Doja.

sort of collaboration but it's part of. the story in a well not sort of Doja Cat. collaboration but the Gaga bit is. actually she's in it. Um but it's really. interesting so the record labels are. trying to be sort of more creative and. they're sort of creating soundtracks and. music concepts themselves and then using. that as a trigger or a centerpiece. around which to develop a script. So. it's kind of totally flipped because. you might as well use the money to kind. of develop things that way. Going back to Linger I think that.

nonetheless there has to be something. about the song itself that speaks to the. new times. And there is something very dreamy and. wistful about the song and. it's emotionally raw and it's. complicated. And again those words longing yearning. that we keep I mean they are they have. been the words of the last two years. But there is and I think we have talked. a little bit about this before that. there is you know Gen Z and Gen A sync. there's an innocence to the 90s and. whether or not you felt that when you. were living through it they feel there.

is an innocence to it. There wasn't when. we got knocked out of the Euros. Tell. you that. It was a loss of all it was. the end of everything. It was the moment. of fall. Anyhow. it's interesting breakup songs and. what's happened to breakup songs to some. degree. Breakup songs these days. we know that we're now living in an era. of very very much dominated by female. artists. They're they're quite angry. breakup songs nowadays. They often. involve another famous person or a. person who the audience is able to sort.

of parse the lines and think it's about. They're very there's something very. different. >> Yeah. And there is an innocence that. they feel that that speaks to people in. something like Linger and these songs. where people go back to them and that's. why they're kind of. it's another reason why people think. that there's something pure about a time. that we don't live in now. Yes I think. there's also an ambiguity to the lyrics. If you literally just cherry pick the. very small amount of that chorus it it. doesn't have to be a breakup song it can. be a love song. And if you've got a song.

that could be a breakup song and a love. song then everyone can use it in any. situation people do. There is something. which. is never spoken about when we talk about. why does something go viral or why is. something so massive. You know why does a book suddenly take. off? Why does a film suddenly take off? Sometimes things are just better than. other things. But we never talk about that. We never. talk about the fact that Linger I. remember first coming out Linger and. just right off the blocks it was it was. an enormous hit everywhere in the world. My brother's band Suede were.

>> [laughter]. >> doing a a US tour. They tried to crack. America a few times like a lot of the. Britpop bands and none of them managed. it. But Suede went over and were doing this. massive tour and they took The. Cranberries as support. And halfway through the tour. Linger went enorma massive and they had. they had to swap round who was it yeah. yeah yeah. yeah I mean can you imagine? But. the song hit immediately. As I say. Dolores O'Riordan who's who's no longer. with us of course wrote it when she was. 17.

That band you know there's a reason why. they've got three songs that have got. over a billion streams on Spotify. Right. they write unbelievably brilliant songs. that have no barriers to you enjoying. them. You know and so Sometimes people. people. you know we're talking to. Paul McCartney this week for our Q&A. thing with and by the way thank you to. everyone for their amazing questions for. that. But again that there's a reason. the Beatles got big. They just wrote. better songs than other people. I mean. it's it's But something that is.

interesting when you talk to people. about this is that they say who were. very heavily involved in this is that. this all of this stuff this this kind of. exhuming and revival and kind of making. very current again a song that's over 30. years old it's all song led Yeah. and. not artist led. So actually they like. the song they're not particularly. interested in who the artist was which. to me is sad because I mean and Dolores. O'Riordan was an amazing person and it's. very sad it was a terribly sad ending.

and she died at 46 not that long ago a. few year you know probably seven or. eight years ago. and again even with. something like Stranger Things they. didn't suddenly become completely. fascinated by Kate Bush which by the way. I mean of all the people to be. fascinated by she's a very fascinating. person she probably loved it that they. didn't. >> [laughter]. >> She's quite happy to just you know. to not have everybody kind of up in her. business but sometimes you seize it and. as you say you know like Sophie. Ellis-Bextor's Murder on the Dance Floor.

which again that is a sync moment of. extraordinary like it's all a pump but. look what happened it was enormous in. Salt Burn. And off the back of that she. is touring the US for the first time. everything can sort of. change from these moments. It's. extraordinary that you can just it can. bubble back up again. But again they. tell you you know you look at the song I. always think the most fascinating song. of all well a sort of fascinating song. is Mr. Brightside cuz it's been in the. UK top 100 for over five years now. Um. but Iris by Goo Goo Dolls I think is. even more fascinating.

Which is I mean that's you know been in. the apart from Christmas is that's been. in the UK charts for the last 80 weeks. in a row. You would recognize it if you. hear it it doesn't have the word the. name Iris in it at any point and so it's. it's almost impossible to sort of recall. it in your head what it is but it's one. of those ones that was a staple of X. Factor and you know. Pop Idol and all the American shows as. well and yeah just one of those songs. that is now going to be around forever. and that's the thing I think we we've. spoken very briefly before about.

the canon of classical music and how. that sort is slightly set in stone. I. know I know things things change but you. know your Beethovens your Brahms all all. of that lot. And that's what is going to happen to. popular music and now as these songs are. sort of jockeying for position and it's. not going to be albums are not going to. be the canon it's going to be. >> [clears throat]. >> songs will be the canon three minute. songs will be the canon and. Running Up That Hill will now forever be. in that canon cuz it's poked its. nose above so will Murder on the Dance.

Floor so will Linger now I think so will. Iris by Goo Goo Dolls. Those songs will be around for. 100 years you know 200 years in the same. way that Mozart is and I'm not. conflating the musicianship or anything. like that I'm just talking about. you know the art form that we have had. we now have enough of it we can just. fold back and fold back and absolutely. just choose whichever our favorite bits. are and because so much music production. now kind of does hark back to previous. eras you know that that idea that a song. ages Take On Me by a-ha Yeah. which.

sounds you know you could absolutely. release tomorrow. That's going to be. around for 100 years. Mr. Blue Sky is. going to be you know Bohemian Rhapsody. is going to be. There's just these songs. are now absolutely taking their place. It's hard for newer music to break. through of course. But I I I think. that's where we are. Yeah. But people. it's really weird that whether or not. they remember or they have some weird. subconscious inherited memory of the. video which to us was iconic but which. much younger people have obviously. probably never seen it. But all like so.

many walking videos on TikTok are to. Bittersweet Symphony which in itself is. using. Mick Jagger and um Keith Richards sort. of. composition but all of them that yeah. there's something about like walking. that people think or put that. this this goes with this. Yeah it's. exactly right and it's it'd be. interesting to see if in that canon cuz. you know us growing up the 50s and 60s. and lots of the Motown stuff and early. rock and roll felt like part of the. canon and it's interesting to see. actually if they end up being part of.

the. whether that begins somewhere around. the late 60s or something. We'll see we. we shall see but. I by and large I think this new. generation are choosing the right songs. Oh, yeah. I mean, these are all very. terrific. >> Should we talk a little bit about the. new Bond, which actually seems like cogs. are starting to wear and things are. starting to happen? We get asked about. this all the time. And because it is. obviously like the rolling entertainment. story, despite it's it's it can be an.

incredibly low-information story. Always. at any point in British cultural life. Um. been a year since um Amazon acquired the. full rights to Bond for sort of a. billion. They'd already bought um. MGM studios, but Corinne Valenti, who. runs film at Amazon, at CinemaCon, when. they talked to the exhibitors about all. the big things that are coming up, she. did talk about some of the big things. that are coming up, but she said, you. know, she knows everyone's waiting to. announce. who that who's going to play Bond, but. they are taking time to do it properly. So, Good idea. >> I will say they are doing it properly.

because it's going to be produced by. David Heyman and Amy Pascal, who are. he's David Heyman's Bridge did all the. Harry Potter. Amy Pascal's sort of. legendary US producer. We know it's. going to be directed by Denis. Villeneuve. So, That's cool. Yes, that's. good. It's going to be written by Steven. Knight. >> that's really cool, right? He's who was. Peaky Blinders and. >> Blinders. You always do get help to. varying degrees when you're doing a Bond. film from the writers Neal Purvis and. Robert Wade, who who are exhaustive. franchise experts. I think they've. co-written the last seven. Again, they.

always do a bit of that, you know, like. Phoebe Waller-Bridge is writing the new. Bond, you think? No, yeah. She like there might someone. might do script touches or whatever. So, they are, in my view, making all the. right moves, but they do not have a lead. actor yet. And they obviously need a. long-term casting choice because one. thing we do know is that people still. seem shocked now when you say, "Well, there won't be a film till 2028." Cuz. you're like, "Well, how [clears throat]. come how come there won't be?" I mean, I. suppose they could get it out for what? Christmas No, they can't get it out for. Christmas next year. I mean, I don't.

think they could. Maybe they could. >> talking to someone um my god, this is a. sidebar, but a film I'm I'd say even. more excited about than the Ghosts. movie, which which is which is going to. be out which is that is not taking. forever. That's going to be out, [clears throat] I think, in in time for. Halloween. Oh, well, that's cool. How. exciting is that? That's that's. incredibly exciting. This is a slightly. different kettle of fish. Yeah. In. general. I get you. Um but and we've it. feels like we've been having this. conversation for years. Um there are many people it's definitely. been all the way back to Idris Elba.

I've Tom Hiddleston it was definitely. him for a bit. Um Harris Dickinson, Aaron Taylor-Johnson, Henry Golding. Yeah. Yes, my goodness. Yeah. Regé-Jean Page for a bit after. Bridgerton, for definite. He'd still be. great, by the way. I personally think he. has great sense of humor for it and. would be whatever. Um Callum Turner is. um there's a lot of people who feel like. >> Callum Turner is the bookies' favorite, right? >> Callum Turner is currently the bookies'. favorite. It feel a lot of people feel. like they're running sort of covert. campaigns like Taron Egerton, who um.

very much like when you're running for. Labour leader, you just say that oh, the. literally the last thing I want to do is. run for Labour leader. As so he said. many times, you know, he wouldn't want. to do it. >> Egerton is like Wes Streeting. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. He could play Wes. Streeting. >> Really any of them. If so, you look at. things like there's all different ways. you can bet on this. Um. no Bond chosen is higher than it's ever. been. It's on about I mean, when I last. checked. >> Like no Bond ever. No, no, they haven't. chosen it yet, which is true, by the. way. I definitely don't think that they. have made the final decision, but I'll. come to who I think they're closing in. It's on 79% with this morning when I was.

coming in on Polymarket. >> So, you. how can you bet on no Bond? >> I then I think that the market just. there's so they timed the markets and. then they say, "Oh, we just closed it at. 79%. >> in the next 4 months they haven't chosen. a Bond. Yeah. Um So, Callum Turner was on. 10%. James Norton was on three. Jacob. Elordi was on three. Aaron. Taylor-Johnson on two. And Cal she's got. it all differently. It's got Callum. Turner on 60%. Um Jacob Elordi 18%. Josh.

O'Connor 8%. If you're betting on Josh. O'Connor to be the next James Bond, have. a word with yourself. I love him. I love. him, but it's not going to be I. absolutely love him, but it's not going. to be Josh O'Connor. And people who've. names have come in, Henry Ashton, you. know this guy he's in My Lady Jane, Good. Girls Guide to Murder, things like that. Um he had sort of sudden rush of my And. there is actual real money but if you. look at how much has been placed on. these markets because in the old days we. used to think, "Oh, yeah, these are. novelty bets. No one actually walks in. or goes online and bets on the next. James Bond." I have to say, so I mean,

you can just just the mere fact of me. saying this means it won't happen, but I. have heard from a number of people now. that they're sort of. you know, Jacob Elordi has kind of moved. into pole position. I don't think And no. one's signed anything yet. Um which is. interesting um because Callum Turner is. way out ahead. Um but I've heard this, but as I say, just the mere fact of me saying it was. it's But anyway, here we go. Let's at. least treat it let's dignify it. Yeah. Too tall for Bond.

Well, that's interesting cuz I remember. you you were. you were. approached at a certain point by the. security services and I remember you. thinking a 6'7" spy was maybe not the. greatest disguise. >> impossible to be He's a 6'5" spy. So, what what would that be? I mean, Yeah, so I don't know. I look like Jacob. Elordi. I mean, Yes. Again, >> I mean, the only way I could be a spy if. they needed somebody to infiltrate the. European Basketball Association. >> get something off a really high shelf. I. mean, listen, Steven Knight, you know, your move. Yeah. Just a a movie about someone [laughter]. reaching something from a high shelf. Um.

so, it's interesting. First of all, there's lots of things that are. interesting about Jacob Elordi where. he's First of all, you know, it's. important women already want to sleep. with him. Now, Daniel Craig was some of. the best casting of all time. That was a. Barbara Broccoli pick and it was a real. That was a real move because a lot of. people were like, "Sorry, who?" And. yeah, no, I don't say that the second. they saw the film, like, "No, yeah, you're right. I do want to sleep with. him." So, that Okay, people already want to sleep. with um Jacob Elordi. He is Gen Z. A-list. He's one of a few people you.

would say is definitely an A-list. It's. interesting that they will have If they. did do that, they've totally skipped. millennials. There'll never have been a. millennial Bond. Well, it's been a long. time to I mean, they've yeah, it's been. a long time. >> It has, but it's interesting that you. know, when they don't get. Yeah, there. >> there was never a millennial Bond. >> But that again, there's a franchise for. you. If you're Amazon and you're trying. to get as much, you know, out of Bond as. you can, then let's do millennial Bond. in a few years. >> And they will, by the way, be doing all. of this as we all know there's going to. be so many other things. I do think they. have to have this decision in place.

before we start seeing the royal They. don't have to wait for the film to come. out to have other things necessarily. >> 28, Jacob Elordi, so you he could easily. do a good 10 years, which is that's what. they really want, right? They want. somebody's going to own this for for a. generation. He is not British. No. But I think you. can get away with it being Australian. I. don't think you can have an American. one, no matter how great the accent. Even when you get like someone like. Gwyneth Paltrow, her English accent is. completely flaw- flawless. You couldn't. have You can't have the male equivalent. of that. We've seen him in Saltburn.

He's his English accent is flawless. It's fine. Yeah, there was a point. where, you know, all sorts of mad names. have been put out there at certain. times. Chris Hemsworth was pushed again, Australian Bond. We've had an Australian. Bond before, though. Yes, we have. >> Lazenby and we've we've had we've had. two non-British Bonds, Lazenby and. Brosnan. I I I think it yeah, it's no. >> don't think you can have an American. >> Oh, no, but Australians are essentially. British. If you know what I mean. [laughter]. They're not Australians, we know that, but you know you know what we mean by. that. We are we have we have a. commonality. But someone like Chris.

Hemsworth who would have been totally. wrong for it, but he's also so. completely associated with another mega. franchise. Jacob Elordi is a bit of a clean skin I. mean, on all of that stuff. Yeah. Um so, huge with the younger audience. That is what I've heard. I'm sure it. won't, you know, it definitely hasn't. been a done deal yet. But I think that. perhaps that would be their that might. be their number one choice. But again, this is this is merely the opinion of. people not a million miles from but.

Please don't take gambling advice from. this program. >> no, definitely don't cuz it could very. well be Callum Turner and I think he's. fantastic. I love him, so So, I think. there's another name. in the frame. And I so I think they are going to wait. till November. I think they're going to see how Celeb. Traitors plays out. And then I think it's Ross Kemp. What. can't he do? As Bond. Well, it's one of. the very few professions he hasn't. effectively already nailed. >> I would watch Kemp as Bond. Yeah. Well, maybe in one of the spin-offs.

He's not a millennial. Anyway, so we'll. see where that goes. And it could very. well be Callum Turner, which would also. be brilliant. I And then it Equally, it. may be one of these other ones because. at the last minute something somebody. comes through. Yeah. Um but I do think. that they're getting quite close to that. decision now. Yeah, it's exciting. Yeah, it is. It's fun. >> Um any recommendations this week? Yes, I. do, actually. I really enjoyed Jack. Lowden in a short film, which is about. 15 minutes, um called Vote Gavin Lyle.

And it's um you can see it on YouTube. It's um directed by Aneil Karia. And he. plays a politician. as a satire. He plays a politician. standing for effectively reform. Um and. I just feel like he Jack Lowden. really having spent quite a lot of time. around lots of those type of candidates, I think he just somehow captures the. the brittleness and the fake. self-deprecation and the sort of. slightly disappointed venom of those.

particular characters. It's the most. true to life that I've seen. And we're. going to see lots more people standing. for Parliament um. that are not necessarily in the. traditional mold of the the. politics Now, we live in a five-party. system. So, I anyway, I I it's the most. successful distillation of that. particular vibe I've seen so far. He's. very, very good in it. >> Remind me the name again. >> It's called Vote Gavin Lyle. You can. watch it on YouTube. It's like 15. minutes. >> I would love Jack Lowden as Bond, by the. way. >> know. I think he's a magnificent.

actor. >> Um I got I'm going to well, two. recommendations really that that that. have a connection. And The Other Bennet. Sister on the BBC, which is fantastic. My my. >> drama. Yeah, half-hour drama. My mom is. a enormous fan of that and she said, "You know what? I loved it." So, I. thought, "Oh, great." It's written by. Janice Hadlow, who weirdly used to be. used to run BBC 2. Never commissioned. anything from me, but she's done a She's. done a great job here, to be fair to. her. So, she came good in the end. It's. really, really great, right? >> It's really good. Yeah, I remember. talking It's Bad Wolf, right? I remember.

talking to them when they were You know, they were saying, "Oh, we're going to do. something a bit different. It's going to. be like a half-hour drama." And I. remember thinking, "Huh, I'd like to I. mean, it's funny as well." Yes, it's. really funny. It's got It's incredibly. affecting. It's got an amazing central. performance from Ella Purnell from Call. the Midwife. I mean, a really amazing. performance. >> I'm absolutely loving it. I see myself. in her. And you've got Richard E. Grant. is in it. Ruth Jones is in it. It's a. You know, it's got the. the cast you would want as well. So, really, really enjoying that, but I'm. also watching uh from the the start of.

the century, The Way We Live Now, which. is the adaptation of the Trollope novel, which I just finished reading and that's. how I was I was saving it. Uh and it's fantastic. David Suchet is. in it. Matthew Macfadyen is in it. But, it also has the first ever television. appearance of. Cillian Murphy. Uh he was He looks so young. Doing an. English accent brilliantly. And you you. take one look at the guy and think. every casting director in the world must. have gone, "Okay." Oh, he's mesmerizing. The eyes. I remember it so well. Absolutely amazing. Written by Andrew.

Davies. Really, really good. And then I. noticed that both of them are exec. produced by Jane Tranter. 25 years apart. So, that's that's. Loved both of them. So, The Other Bennet sister and The Way We. Live Now. The Way We Live Now is on. Amazon. The Other Bennet sister is on. iPlayer. [clears throat] Right. We will. be back on Thursday with a Q&A. And for. our members, for a bonus episode, we. will be talking about. the Michael Jackson Pepsi advert. incident. This is when his hair caught.

fire. And we'll be discussing it as a. cultural moment. Anyway, um if you want. to join for ad-free listening, it's. therestisentertainment.com. Otherwise, we'll see you on Thursday. >> on Thursday. >> [music]. [music].