Prince Harry’s ‘Idiotic’ Legal Battle

What are we talking about this week? >> We are talking about Prince Harry and. others have lost their phone hacking and. illegal in interception and of. information and bugging and things like. that case against the mail and we're. going to be talking about that, what it. means, it's kind of an end of an era for. lots of those things, but I would like. to talk about it cuz I think it's very. interesting. >> talk cuz it seems quite opaque and I've. been waiting to get your take on it. We. are also going to talk about the most. successful UK song in British chart. history. Do you know what it is? You'll. find out what it is.

I guess in the second bit of the show, but it's a shocker. But also about what. happened to you know that culture where. everyone knew every song. >> Yes. And we're going to be talking. I love this one about drinks of the. summer. What is the drink of this summer. and why do we like have the impression. that there is one? >> Yeah, and also why is there more money. in in that than any other industry we. ever talk about? >> The Rest Is Entertainment is presented. by Octopus Energy. >> Now we're going to be talking about an. expression which I hadn't heard till 7.

seconds ago, which is someone getting. their flowers. Can you tell me what that. means? >> Well it means like you've been around a. long time but people suddenly think hang. on a second, you're amazing and you. should be recognized. >> So you're finally getting your due. You're you're getting your flowers. >> and and you're being garlanded. Now I. would say someone like this is someone. like Jean Smart who plays the lead in. Hacks. She plays Deborah Vance. Okay, Jean Smart is extraordinary. She did a. huge amount of TV and stage work and. there was a sense that she was sort of. always brilliant but then this one role.

came along Deborah Vance in Hacks. They. literally just give her the Emmy every. year now. She gets she gets her flowers. every year. She gets her Emmy every. year. As we always talk about Octopus's. customer service your your accounts are. run by about 10 or 12 people. You've got. a small team. >> And they know who you are. >> Yes, and they are permitted to send. flowers every week to a customer who. might just be going through something, whatever it is. So they can recognize. it's not an apology, it's just because. someone was going through something and. they you get your flowers. >> Another example of they seem to do. business in a very interesting and. customer focused way. Imagine if June.

Smart is an Octopus customer, might get. her flowers twice. >> Yeah, every week. Let's start with Prince Harry and the. Mail. There were There were various. claimants in this case. It's Prince. Harry, Elton John, Doreen Lawrence, the. mother of the murdered black teenager. Stephen Lawrence, Sadie Frost, Liz. Hurley. And they accused Mail Newspapers. of obtaining private via unlawful. methods between the 1990s and the 2010s.

>> And it's been going on a long time, right? And Harry was looking for really. significant damages and also just for. some vindication as well, I think. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, as you know, there. have been other cases. This one alleged. phone hacking, bugging homes and cars, using private investigators, obtaining. financial and medical records illegally. And the crux of it, if I can describe a. crux that turned out to be made of. jelly, was that specific Mail stories. cited Mail stories were based on these. methods. Now, Prince Harry and others,

as you know, have had, which we'll get. to, have had other cases against. newspaper groups, which weren't based in. that in that same way on specific. articles. He He's won a phone hacking. case against Mirror Group. He got a. settlement and apology from News Group. Newspapers who published the Sun and. once published the News of the World. >> more about proving there was a culture. of it at those organizations and this is. >> This is a This is a different way of. going about it and we'll get into the. weeds of it in a second. It To suffice. to say it was a 3-month trial. The kind.

of overall costs for all parties, both. sides, is maybe 50 million. It's insane. >> How is taking anything to court so. expensive? >> It's unbelievable. It obviously involves. huge. teams of lawyers, whatever. I mean, lawyers are very, very expensive. And they lost. And the judge, who's Mr. Justice Nicklin, said that the suspicion. was suspicion was not enough. They. didn't prove their case at all and. there were unreliable witnesses, which. we'll get to. Prince Harry.

and the others came out and said. straight after that this is a complete. and obvious whitewash. Oh my god, I'm. going to come to the wisdom of that or. otherwise in a minute. >> Because you're not supposed to say that. >> Well, let's get to it. But before we go. on, I would like to say that that I have. absolutely no in fact I know that I have. absolutely no doubt that there was phone. hacking of individuals and I think on. the balance of probability these. individuals some of them have already. obtained settlements from other. newspaper groups. I'm not suggesting. which titles did it but it did occur. but not provably in these cases. Other.

cases have been proved. The fact is they. just failed to produce convincing. evidence on any of 97 counts. Now that is a genuine horror show. >> 97 sort of individual stories that they. were saying that that that they had. presumably. >> derived from. >> they could argue what had been derived. from that and they had evidence to back. that up in court. >> didn't and it they did not have a case. And the indictment. from the judge was just incredibly.

damning and. I mean I've you know I've said this so. many times on this podcast before and. say it to anywhere one, you know, never. litigate basically. It is unless there. is absolutely nothing you can do but. litigate. And in this case they the claimants seem. to have been gingered along whether by. lawyers or activists. >> No pun intended. >> Um yeah yeah. Lawyers or activists or whoever. And I do think that. if you are at any lawyer in any case, a.

decent thing to do is to make the person. you're representing aware of the risk. Others got out, you you know, someone. like Hugh Grant who is arguably. you know, I mean not even arguably it's. a lot cannier here Prince Harry got out. because people realized that if they. don't win, then they're liable for all. the costs and it can sort of bankrupt. you and it's just not worth it. >> And so you you think it was obvious it. was a leaky sieve. right from the start? >> Okay, there are certain things that. happened that I would say, what on earth.

happened with the preparation here? Um. there was a thing where Prince Harry was. kind of sniffing to one of the lawyers, you know, I've never been to a carnival, I don't know what you're talking about. It's like, oh, well, it's in your. autobiography. You know, this is like okay, the decent thing to do is to make people. aware of risks. David Sherborne, who was. a leading lawyer in this case and in. lots of the phone hacking stuff, not a QC, not a QC, quite interesting when someone has been. that long in the public eye is not a QC,

but I will say about phone hacking that. it was investigated incredibly poorly, most particularly by the Metropolitan. Police for reasons. upon which many of us can speculate. >> Well, that's that do we want for the. rest of history? >> Yeah. Yeah, and it is becoming very historical this. Hacked Off, who's the sort of campaign. against, you know, campaign for press. standards and they've had they've got. various sort of leading lights of it. Um. they had they got a guy called Graham. Johnson, who was a Sunday Mirror.

self-confessed phone hacker. In fact, I. think, you know, when he thought when he. saw his colleagues being arrested, he. volunteered voluntarily confessed to the. police. And he recruited a guy called. Gavin Burrows, who was some, you know, kind of sea sea beast private. investigator. >> It's a good name for a private. investigator. >> Yeah, I mean, take a look at him. It's. like it's absolute central casting this. guy. >> Gavin Burrows. >> Gavin Burrows. >> Yeah, he might as well be called Steve. Delves. >> Yeah. Gavin Burrows was a private investigator.

who seemed willing to confess to. carrying out all kinds of crimes on. behalf of the Mail. And I think he ended up getting paid. five K a month by um in people. investigating on behalf of the litigants. and he said he'd hacked them and bugged. them all at home in places that he'd. been in places they'd visited. He and. Graham Johnson eventually fall out and. then he switches side. Gavin Burrows. switches side, completely disavows his. state earlier statements that are you. know by this point you know part of um.

the evidence. Well presumably that. they're they're the smoking they're the. real smoking gun. Well he detonated his. credibility obviously. on purpose. Yeah. Um and now says he. never worked for them. Again, I want to come back to the victims. because all of these people I believe I. know have been victims of phone hacking. Many of them have been involved in other. settlements, whatever and I have. absolutely no doubt that they're. completely traumatized and remain. traumatized by those years and in the. way where lots of us have had bad things.

happen to us, you can carry on blaming. it for lots of other things into the. perpetuity and it obviously gave rise to. enormous paranoia amongst people who. couldn't understand and some of them. lost friends because they thought they. were leaking all those sorts of things. The judge did say that some of them were. prone to reconstruction and that it is. that sort of thing of being in the. rearview mirror and saying these things. happened and if a judge says you're. prone to reconstruction, I mean that's. that's it cuz they're they're so polite. Yeah, I mean it I thought it was the.

indictment was like nothing I had read. for a long time. It's really damning and. again I think you know they've been led. from behind by campaigners who will not. be paying for this. Right. Um so we're. going to have to go for the costs now. because as I said I think people. estimate that the overall thing is. 50 million. Now Associated which is a newspaper. group that owns the mail titles, they are from what from all the briefing. that you're reading now or you can see. now and from what I've heard they're. going to go for the removal of spending.

caps because they're just they've said. they're going to go for someone said. they're going to go for the jugular. There's a hearing in the So what does. that mean removal of spending caps? >> It means that there's certain they have. limits at the moment on how big the. payout can get. >> um for because. these cases it we've tried to try and. limit the cost of things in our legal. system and successfully sometimes and. other times not successfully. There is a. hearing in a couple of weeks where the. same judge is going to hear. representations as to what and probably. from Associated to to why we want you.

know, the claimants to be left with 50. million in bills. The litigants, those litigants did have. the claims they had a level of indemnity. insurance which you can you can take out. insurance. I think they had some sort of. Guildford based firm and they they've. got a level of insurance which will take. you up to say 14 million, say that's an. estimate. >> What I call a Guildford based firm? >> Yeah, yeah. Well, [clears throat] not. well but there's it's quite a specialist. thing to provide you know, indemnity. insurance on this stuff but it's nowhere.

near 50. Having said that. again, I mean talk about bad advice. Your conduct after the a trial matters. This is why when people come down the. steps of a courtroom and they say things. like we're incredibly disappointed in. the verdict. This is fine. These are. emotions. You can have feelings about. this or that. Instead, they attacked the. judges. They there's a statement which. attacked the judges integrity. They sort. of suggested that. he was party you know, party pre. effectively you know, crooked and that.

they hadn't been given justice. Um and who would have signed off that. statement? Is that the litigants or the or the. lawyers or a bit of. >> Well, they've all I I don't think. actually that the litigants I think that. that has come from some of the claimants. on behalf of all of them. We I certainly. it would have come from Prince Harry. >> Right. >> But I think that there are many in that. legal team who understand that it was a. stupid thing to do. It is so incredibly. dumb and self-destructive to attack the. judge afterwards when you when you could.

be on the hook for these enormous costs. I It could And And also, what the. insurers may say, "Well, I'm so sorry, you've voided your insurance because. what you did was so incendiary and so, you know, whatever, that you've effectively. pushed them into removing the spending. caps because. And in terms of who will pay, >> Yeah. >> you know, >> And how much? >> And how much, it will be Elton John and. Prince Harry because they've got the. money. >> Well, Elton does. >> Yeah. I mean, I don't know about Prince. Harry's finances. We know so little, but.

he's I mean, I don't think he's ever. struggled, but the way he likes to tell. it, he's a church mouse. >> Either way, if you're paying 25 million, that's uh that's going to make a. that's going to make a dent, isn't it? >> Um. So, anyway, in terms of what I what the. take out for us I should be, I think for. sure, phone hacking was massive and. widespread and never properly punished. in terms of the people who did it. other than financially. Now, it has cost these titles so many.

countless hundreds of millions to. defend. They have been absolutely hit. where it hurts financially. Good, they. deserved it. News UK alone, I they think have taken. more than a 1.2 billion in losses. Hundreds of millions have been paid to. victims. We don't know how much cuz many. of them settled privately and whatever. I mean, an unbelievable amount to. lawyers, as always, as you said. But for. me, you know, that period is over, okay? Life is not perfect. As I say, it.

Lots of individuals melted back into the. what into journalism, into executive. positions, into very senior executive. positions who knew about this stuff and. allowed it to happen. But it is what it is now, and the thing. that gets me now most particularly is. that. journalism is really under threat. Look at Nigel Farage's address last week. when he's going after specific. journalists, specific titles. We know. Trump has done every single thing in his. power to attack press freedom. Nigel.

Farage last week was saying, you know, look at what Sky News have done. And if. you actually look at the footage, Sky. News have come to a property which. I wonder, we don't know, maybe it's in. his name, and they've just knocked on. the door. That is legitimate. Okay, that. is a legitimate inquiry within our. politics. I care far more about press freedom in. the here and now than I do about I'm. sorry to say about phone hacking which, as I say, the titles been hit where it hurts. The balance is now tipped. We have. weirder money than ever in our society.

and our politics, and we need the press. to investigate. This would have been a. real I I think this would have been very. very difficult for press freedom. And, you know, who investigated Farage? Not. certainly not not certainly not hacked. off or. >> No. >> Prince Harry, right? Journalists did it. In fact, phone hacking was originally. investigated by a journalist, by Nick. Davies at The Guardian. And you've now had I mean, just going. back to Farage, you had two stories in. the last very in very short order. One.

from The Guardian which which found the. matter of the 5 million donation from. this Thai-based uh crypto billionaire. Um. >> And if you can't trust a Thai-based. crypto billionaire, who can. >> Then what the hell? >> Yeah. >> Then you've got The Sunday Times and The. Times doing various things. Now, the. donations that Farage has taken from. this convicted fraudster and his mother. of indeterminate funding sources. You might think that's pretty quick for. two stories to come up. Maybe there's. more to come, but the people who will. investigate I have to say will be.

journalists. >> Yeah. >> And you don't see that I mean, people. who cover showbiz stories now, they just. sit on people's Instagram accounts. And. it's not it's not done in the same way. it was at all. But I do think these are. really dangerous times in terms of. freedom of speech, um press freedom, and. massive amounts of unexplained money in. our politics. And now more than ever, I. I think this is should be the line. underneath it and we people should get. behind anything that throws daylight on.

anything. And I'm sorry for all. litigants in these cases, many of them. have received payouts. I think people. know it happened but I but it is over. and I think that it's becoming quite. difficult to support, you know, a prince. versus. a business which is trying to expose. things that are wrong in amongst our. This was an institutional failure. Let's. Let's be really honest. This was a. massive institutional failure phone. hacking. But but I think it has been put.

right as much as in an imperfect world. >> Yeah. I mean it's cuz listen, I I. absolutely agree with the thrust of what. you say but in terms of the 19th century. novel of this whole thing is Harry will. never get the closure that he wants. He. He wants someone to stand up there and. said we we wronged you. We did it. deliberately. This is what we did. And. you can see you you know why you know. you know where where he's come from. I that will never go away for him but. he's I don't think he's ever going to. get that. >> No. No, he's never going to get that.

closure and it's. you know, it's it's a it was too crass. to do the sort of pop psychology but. yeah, you've it's not it's never going. to bring her back, you know. It's really. it's really awful. and I feel very and without any question. these people were victims of it but I. think the sort of leading from behind. needs to stop because the times have. moved on now and we have to move on and. amazing journalism is being done about. some of the most vital issues in our. society and I think that I'm I'm pleased. that.

we haven't ended up with tighter. controls on press freedom as a result. >> And so do you think there's ever going. to be this Leveson two inquiry, the. follow-up to the first one? >> Do you remember that Kevin Costner movie. Horizon and he said there were going to. be four parts of it and the first one. fell off the screen and the second one. he pushed out. Okay, Horizon 4, you are more likely to see. Horizon 4 than Leverson 2. >> Can I just say all the way through that. cuz that was that was fascinating. So, thank you for that. But, all the way. through I was thinking that I said the. phrase a leaky sieve. And I was really.

angry with myself cuz I I mean, of. course a sieve is leaky. I mean, it's. >> [laughter]. >> But, I mean, if you had a non-leaky. sieve, you'd take it back. >> Yeah, I mean, hopefully someone will. take us to court just for you doing. that. >> But, really the case was a sieve. >> Yeah. >> Or. a leaky bucket. >> Yeah. Yes. >> But, not a leaky sieve, which would be a. great case to take. >> Yeah. I mean, otherwise Big Sieve will. come after you, and you don't want that. >> [laughter]. >> Big Sieve is a great name for a. character. >> A private investigator. >> Big Sieve borrows. Big [laughter] Sift.

Uh shall we go to some adverts? >> Let's do that. >> This episode is brought to you by the. Lloyds 5K house deposit. >> Lloyds are offering a 5K house deposit, which was last seen in 1996. What are your entertainment memories of. the 1990s? >> I feel guilty talking about the 1990s. because you look back and it was it was. such a golden era. >> We'd never had it so good, and we didn't. even realize cuz we were young, and we. just thought we were entitled to it all. >> We absolutely took it for granted. Yeah,

Britpop was absolutely in its pomp. Oasis playing to a quarter of a million. people. You had Blur and Suede and Pulp. >> I'm so sorry. >> Spice Girls, amazing movies at the. cinema, Trainspotting. I mean, it it. felt a time of absolute optimism, but at. the time you just assumed that was the. way that the the. >> very British type of optimism. >> Yeah. But, and part of the optimism, of. course, is that mortgages were more. affordable, and that is what Lloyds is. is dealing with right now. >> Yeah. Last seen in 1996, Lloyds are now. offering 5K deposit mortgages to.

first-time buyers. Search 5K first-time. buyer. >> 1996 average first-time buyer deposits. based on ONS data. Subject to status, your home may be repossessed if you. don't keep up repayments. Conditions. apply. >> [music]. >> Welcome back everyone. Now we're in a 16. weeks at number one for Remian by Sam. Fender and Olivia Dean. I would say. absolutely. it's a great great song. but fascinating that it beats Love Is.

All Around and yet it's not a song that. I would say is absolutely the heart. >> like one of Yeah. It's not like one of. these sort of songs that like I don't. know, things like Wonderwall or like New. Rules or Adele things that just suddenly. just seem for like they've taken over. the world. It is It doesn't have that. feeling and I know you're going to tell. us why. >> Well, yeah. Well, we will get on to. Wonderwall later actually, but yeah, what I really wanted to think about cuz. of course when we're we're we're we're. we're number one and when Bryan Adams. was number one with Everything I Do, I. Do It for You, which Remian has just.

tied with, but of course Bryan Adams is. not from the UK, but. Sam Fender and Olivia Dean might break. his record next week as well if they. stay at number one. for another week. Now wait wait wait. when Bryan Adams sold physical singles, you had to go into a shop, you had to. physically actively buy one, whereas Sam. Fender and Olivia Dean, we now live in. the age where streaming is a huge part. of how a song gets into the charts and. how it stays in the charts and why songs. stay around for quite so long. The. actual story of Remian is fascinating. It tells you everything you need to know.

about streaming. So it was Sam Fender's. third album. It was like track eight on. his third album. It was the sixth single. released from that album. And by the. way, Sam Fender sells a lot of physical. copies of his albums. People buy. physical versions of. Sam Fender's stuff and he's also. brilliant. If people don't know him, genuinely he's fantastic. But that song, as I say, sixth single from the album. went into the charts at number 86 in its. first week. Olivia Dean was on tour with him. We. talked about her this a little before.

Came and sang it with him and then she. and one of her songwriters wrote a. verse. They released that. >> It's about the breakup. We should say. it's about the breakup of a relationship. from the kind of guy's point of view, but she added a kind of rejoinder, and. that is what has. >> from the female point of view, which. really, really, really works. And they. clearly have enormous respect for for. each other. And Olivia Dean is now so, you know, she was supporting him, and. she's now so über enormous that it's. it's it's a real juggernaut. And it's a. really. lovely song as well. But it took 36 weeks to get to number.

one. That song took 36 weeks to get to. number one. It's now been number one for. 16 weeks as well. It's been in the. charts for over a year. And these are. things that didn't used to happen. Like. when we had physical singles, you you. know, you first sort of four or five. weeks, you know, you'd get the odd song, like "Wait, wait, wait" or Brian Adams, that would stick around for 3 months, but nothing else. Whereas you look at. the charts now, you know, "As It Was" by. Harry Styles is still in the top 75. I. mean, these things. >> Number one songs stay something like. three times longer than they were in the. '60s. What's interesting, but what I.

will probably get to this in a minute, but there's much more churn down the. bottom. That has never been more. churn-filled, that section of the. charts, but the top is. >> It's It's I mean, it's why. >> sticky hits, right, streaming? It just. >> And it's why we don't have Top of the. Pops anymore, because it would it would. literally be the same songs. Every I. think that highest new entry in the. chart this week is like number 38 or. something. I mean, it is, you know, it's. it's just the charts are not what they. used to be. I think it's interesting, so. it made me really think about streaming, cuz, you know, streaming came in 2014,

start started counting in the charts. So, I wanted to look back, and I try and. pinpoint the exact date at which. streaming killed physical music. >> I love you for doing this. >> And I have an exact date written down. I. did a couple of things. So, firstly, I. looked at the the top 50 best-selling. singles of all time. So, those are the. ones that that physically sold. copies, right? Which is not something we. really look at now. And of those 50, there's one was from the 1950s, that's. Bill Haley and the Comets, "Rock Around. the Clock". There's only four from the.

'60s, but three of those are the. Beatles, one of them's Ken Dodd. In the 70s, we have eight of them. You. got things like Bohemian Rhapsody, Mull. of Kintyre, You're the One That I Want, We Are the Babylon, that kind of, you. know, era where when the songs again. sort of hung around for a whole summer. In the 80s, we had 11. You got things. like Band Aid, Relax, Last Christmas. 90s, we had 15. It starts really, you know, ramping up. You would think that that's the point. So, we were really still buying a huge. amount of music, physical music, vinyl.

music, uh CD music in the 90s. Uh that you got Barbie Girl, you got. Bryan Adams and Wet Wet Wet, and you got. Britney Spears, things like that. >> [snorts]. >> In the 2000s, there's only three. Black Eyed Peas is. one, Will Young is one. Uh. then, 2004, they start including digital. downloads in the charts. So, digital. downloads still counts as a physical. copy of a song, cuz you are paying for. it. And once you pay for it, you own it. Okay, so you got people going into. Woolworths and buying.

vinyl 7-inch single, but you've also got. people literally physically buying music. >> Yeah. >> from 2004. >> it is, yeah. >> Yeah, exactly. And that brings a huge glut of million. sellers in the first part of those from. some like 2011 to 2014. How about this. for a run of songs? You have got Adele, Someone Like You, 2011. 2011, Moves Like. Jagger, Maroon 5. 2012, Somebody That I. Used to Know, Gotye. Uh 2013, Happy by. Pharrell, one of the top 10 selling.

singles of all time. Blurred Lines by. Robin Thicke, Get Lucky by Daft Punk, Wake Me Up by Avicii, and then 2014, Uptown Funk by Mark Ronson and Bruno. Mars. I mean, that is a absolute sort of. what, a golden era. They were all. selling over a million there because. that was the prime time of digital. downloads. So, not only were you There's. still some physical music being bought. in shops, there's also these digital. downloads. But when did we stop buying music. at all? And that era of 2011 to 2014 is. the absolute key. Okay, this is the.

complete key. In 2011, when Adele was at. number one with Someone Like You, when. she sold over a million, Spotify had fewer than 1 million users. Okay, fewer than 1 million in 2011. In. 2014, when Uptown Funk is this this period of. three or four years with this huge. sellers and people paying for music, literally paying quite a lot of money. >> Giving money instead of. buying something. >> in exchange for something. When Uptown. Funk was number one end of 2014, 75.

million users. So, in just those three. years it's gone from under 1 million to. 75 million. And what happened in the middle of that. is in 2014, the charts started letting. streaming in. So, from 2014, so Uptown. Funk in 2014, after that, after Uptown. Funk, so we've had, you know, eight. songs in those three years which are. amongst the 50 best-selling singles of. all time. How many do you think since. 2014 have been in the the top 50. best-selling songs of all time? Zero. >> [gasps]. >> Not a single one. Uptown Funk was the.

last ever. The last ever one after this. incredible run. And literally just six. months after streaming was allowed into. the UK charts as well. >> Also, I love the fact that your notes, which I can see they're not read, literally look like you've killed them. well again. >> Yes. >> [laughter]. >> You've really got into this. >> not Charlie Day in It's Always Sunny in. Philadelphia. No, I really I really. really did get into it. Uh and more to. the point with Uptown Funk, not only was. it the last ever song to be in that top. 50, it also was the first song ever to. have 2 million plus streams in a week.

The first song in UK chart history. So, it was the last song ever. that people actually bought, and it was. the first song ever that people really. started streaming. So, the day that got. knocked off number one, I'm going to say is the day the final. day. when streaming finally beat. >> The selling of music died. Not died. music died, but the day the selling. died. The day the selling and music. died, and that was the 8th of February. 2015. So, 8th of 20 We have We have not had a. single song that has been in the the top.

50. If you look at the streaming charts, it's fascinating and almost every song. is after that era. Almost every song. To. the extent that. So, you got the 50 best-selling songs of. all time in the UK. You got the 50 most streamed songs. of all time in the UK. You would think there'd be a fair bit of. crossover there. Some of the biggest. songs You would think there's a fair bit. of crossover. There are only two songs. on both those lists. >> Wow. >> One of which won't be there for long cuz. it's Avicii Wake Me Up, which is number. 50. Even let's assume that was this month's.

figures, but next month that probably. won't be on there. So, there was only. one song in the history of UK chart. music. that will be very soon that is in the 50. best-selling singles of all time and the. 50 most streamed singles of all time. Do. you know what that is? >> What is it? >> It's the song that eats everything. before it. It's Bohemian Rhapsody. by Queen. >> Gosh. >> Yeah? >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> That's Okay. >> That's pretty impressive, isn't it? >> It is. >> Um so, what happens this week? So, Rami. A might beat Bryan Adams this week. Is.

that important? Music is different to. how it used to be, for sure. We don't. have the monoculture we used to have, that's for sure. But, this is how we. measure the charts and this incredible. song by these two incredible artists has. >> Yeah. >> And it's By the way, and we've spoken a. bit before about how the charts are. done. It's very, very hard to keep at. the top of the charts these days because. >> and they try and handicap you, basically. So, that you don't. So, there is some movement. >> Yeah. So, you know, it's it's an. incredible achievement. If So, if it can. beat Bryan Adams this week, it'll be 17. weeks at number one.

I think possibly. it might not. I think it might be knocked off the. number one this week and it all depends. on what happens in Atlanta. on Wednesday evening. The unofficial. anthem of the England World Cup team. >> Well, that was and is a cultural. phenomenon. >> Yeah. >> Never got to number one when it came. out. Now, that to me is a something that you. just heard across the country and it. just felt like it was everyone was in. its grip. >> Incredibly catchy, sort of a cross.

between a ballad and a rocker. >> Yeah. >> It's become this. anthem that they sing at the end of. every England game. If we go out, then. it will fall off a cliff just like. Christmas songs do on the 26th of. December. But, if we go through, I say. we, England, go through, then that might. scupper Sam Fender and Olivia Dean. They'd probably be happy about that. anyway. Be quite a nice thing to lose. to. And that is funnily enough on the. the list of the 50 biggest selling. singles of all time. And you never know, could just get onto that list of of top.

streamers as well. Got to get to like 3. and 1/2 billion. >> Although it doesn't feel like the sort. of achievement that it was when. Wet Wet Wet did it and Bryan Adams did. it. I just think it's a different type. of achievement in a different. generation. And I think it's a great. song. And I think if. >> you worry about modern music, you look. at the entire recorded works of Sam. Fender, you look at the entire recorded. works of Olivia Dean, and we're in pretty good shape. But, I've really really enjoyed looking back. through the thing. But, yeah. >> That's amazing. >> 8th of 8th of February, 2015, is the day.

that people stopped paying musicians. >> It's also fascinating how many like how. how movies just sold songs like. both of those other two songs were sold. off the back of Four Weddings and a. Funeral, which obviously became a. phenomenon, and Robin Hood: Prince of. Thieves. >> Yeah, exactly. >> And you know, how Christian Slater in. the video, so I think that's probably. what sold the song for me. >> But, even happier than that. What. happened to Christian Slater? >> Oh my god, he had an incredible run for. like the late '80s and early '90s. And I. loved him so much. I could do a whole.

bonus series on the guys who were on my. wall. I mean, big time. But, and. Christian Slater, I would like to give some proper. attention to. I loved him so much. >> So, you would like to give some proper. attention to. >> Yeah. I would. Yeah, I mean, that was. that was the point. You know, that's why. they're on your wall. Sorry, it's reality. >> God, I knew this chat chat would end. with Christian Slater. >> Sorry, I just couldn't keep a lid on it. >> Yeah. >> You know, he's in the video. He's in the. I can't believe actually Kevin Costner. or or his agent allowed him to be in the. film with Kevin Costner with that. dreadful hair. But I think Kevin Costner. at the time thought he was in his. imperial phase and nothing could disrupt.

him. >> Yeah, I'm pretty sure everyone's looking. forward to Horizon 4. Plus Christian. Slater's in that. >> [laughter]. >> Where are you, Christian Slater? I love. you. >> But anyway, congratulations to Sam. Fender, Olivia Dean, and people look out. if they break Brian Adams' record next. week. But I have a sneaking thought that. Wonderwall. might do it. I think if we win against Argentina, it. will do it. >> Oh, we all want Wonderwall to do it. because it will imply something else, but. >> Yes, that's true. Apart from Sam Fender, well, maybe Sam Fender would as well. >> I think I probably everyone's on board. with this. >> Nice to play some music on the podcast. as well.

>> Yes. >> We should do more of that. >> Yeah, much more music. >> Yeah. >> And you know, maybe even the videos. >> Yeah, and talking about interactivity, we don't have any interactivity in this. next section, which is about the drinks. of the summer. I press we should have. done It's a bit early. >> It is a bit early. Okay. The drink of. the summer, as I say, what is it and why. do we have a notion that we have one? There are obviously always fashions in. cocktails. I find cocktail wars the only. acceptable form of identity politics. And winter had a sort of drink this year. was the dirty martini and like lots of.

people sort of talk about it, mention. it, they're um. >> I can't do a dirty martini. >> Oh, I love them. >> like olives in my non-alcoholic meals. I. don't like them in my alcoholic meals, which is what I call them. >> [laughter]. >> alcoholic meals. I love them in my alcoholic meals. >> Okay. >> So some of the drinks of the summer and. so on are about marketing. In fact, marketing is a huge part of all of these. things. Aperol spritz, let's just let's. just get it out there because this is. the case in point. Aperol spritz used to be like a cheap. sort of kind of rocks based. bar drink, backstreet thing came came.

from Venice originally. And it became. this sort of cocktail they changed. everything, they changed they buy the. umbrellas, they change the glasses to. this big balloon thing. Campari and acquired I think in 2023 but. by then it had already become huge. >> It's like it's it's the pulled pork of. alcohol. >> Yeah, yeah it's it's. it's what's amazing about Aperol is that. it is low alcohol compared to lots of. other similar things even Campari. So. you need this is so great you'd love. this. This is the license to print money.

because you need a comparatively high. volume of it in the drink. So you might. put 25 mils of something else in the. drink but an Aperol spritz has got 45. mils of this thing. So it's just oh it's. an absolute banker okay. And but it did. slightly change people's taste because. it's a slightly bitter taste. So this. summer okay what are we talking about? Hugo spritz is big that Saint Germain. liqueur. Now people from the brand is. you see so Sophie Turner is the face of. that. Market research has forced me out. to be going. out like twice a night for about the. last 50 nights and you see masses and.

masses of Hugo spritz. Hugo is big. >> They're everywhere. >> And that was quite an obscure liqueur. >> Oh yeah. They've been building that for a long. time the cardio quiet. Yeah. They've. been building it. Remember the visuals. of drinks are very very important. The. platforms have completely changed our. material world. What people loved about. Aperol was that it was orange it looked. great photographs really it's got to. photograph well. Hugo spritz also look. good but remember and also it's part of. sort of trend culture because people buy.

and post drink pictures themselves with. drinks because they're able to post it. It becomes a kind of in-group signifier. Um it's an identity signaling. It's not. about necessarily fancy cocktails but. it's about showing who you are and sort. of it's it's a form of fashion. >> Yeah. Aperol spritz is almost perfect. because it it's not fancy. It feels. artisanal. and it feels kind of cuz it it does come. from Venice and it you know it's a sort. of real drink yeah as you say it's in. that beautiful schooner so it. photographs well and it's it's sort of.

tastes okay. Um but the taste is very. much the last. >> Yes. >> part of that. But it's bigger than. Campari spritz cuz Campari spritz is a. bit too red. >> It and it's peo- people find Campari. quite bitter. It's quite medicinal. But. I think the actual drink of the summer, first of all, I'm got I'm going to do. alcoholic and non-alcoholic. Alcoholic, the vodka cran. The vodka cranberry. This was invented by Ocean Spray. Lots. of you know, Ocean Spray. Of course. >> Really? >> It was invented by Ocean Spray. >> that? >> No, well, you've got.

>> It's just putting some juice in some. vodka. >> Yeah. You're a juice company. You need. to put yourself into a cocktail. You. need to become a mixer. Um and they invented it in the 1940s. They called it the Red Devil. A little. bit of an unfortunate name at that time. cuz of all the red scare and things like. that. But these Hugo spritzes, yes, you're seeing them everywhere. But vodka. cran, first of all, people think it's. Taylor Swift's favorite. >> Okay. >> Olivia Rodrigo's new album, there's a. track on it called "Expectations" which. contains the lyric "Rocking a mini dress. with an. >> Okay. >> Okay. Conan Gray did a whole song called.

"Vodka Cranberry" which she did at the. VMAs. Uh again, it is a visual drink, but it's also in a time where like. actually people are starting to ask, you. know, when you just get a stuck behind. My one most unexceptable thing is when. people off- order coffee in a pub. It's. like, "I'm sorry, this is going to take. so long." Yeah. There are other places. for this. But. >> Yes, I know. You get stuck behind. >> in the queue by someone who wants one of. these complicated drinks. This is a. basic like serve it to me. >> By the time they've, you know, made your. friend's. >> drink, you've going to have another one. >> Pre-can it. >> Yeah. They Yeah. >> That's an easy one.

>> What cans is beyond? Cans is like this. completely explosive market. >> Cans of wine, huge now. >> Cans Yeah. Um and it's got Y2K vibes as well, the. vodka cran. >> It's got what vibes? >> Y2- Yeah, 2K. You know, a Y2K. Y2K. >> It's got Why is vodka cran got Y2K. vibes? >> It has because it's it's a sort of thing. that people. Before, you know, people went mainstream. with cocktails and things like. complicated cocktails. >> that cocktails, did we? >> It No, but that's It's a drink in a. mixer. It's very simple. It's simple. But for Gen A. >> I've never seen you so energized on an.

item. >> Yeah, don't worry. I'm going back to. something. I know. What nourishes me. also destroys me. >> Yeah, it's so interesting to see. >> Yeah. >> [laughter]. >> I mean, just a peek behind the mask. >> I. >> [sighs and gasps]. >> I've got to run it and I'm too old. Okay, >> Let me get Let me. Let me get down to their generation's. drink. The Gen A, the mega mega drink is. from Starbucks. It's the strawberry acai. lemonade refresher, okay? >> Okay. >> This thing is beyond the status drink. It was started first by teens. They. customize it a lot. It's very.

interesting. You'll You'll be interested. in this. Okay, it's part of like little. treat culture. It's like kind of, you. know, it can be expensive, but it. started by sort of cool teens. And then. like the booboos or Stanley cups, it. becomes what they were imagined to be. basic. So it lowers down the age range, but Starbucks used to not appeal to. teens at all. But they only started in. 2012. They So started doing color. drinks, but crucially they did cold. drinks. And then 37% of the drinks they. used to sell were cold. In less than a. decade it was 75%, okay? It is massive.

This drink. >> Seven- Are you saying 75% of drinks that. Starbucks sells. >> are cold. >> And this strawberry acai lemonade. refresher is absolutely huge amongst You. can't move for it on, you know, people. posting pictures of it. >> I call it a self. >> Okay. Yes. Yes, it's a Yeah, it's a self. Yeah, yeah. No, seller. >> Oh, yeah, that's bad. >> yeah. >> Seller. I call it a moe. >> A moe, yeah. It's a moe. >> Uh it had Again, has to have. photographed well, but these teens and. tweens are all on drink talk. They. customize it in millions of drink talk. They customize it in millions of ways.

They let They think it's ASMR, the noise. of the ice. They. They have their first sips. And. Starbucks have really lent into it. >> bet they have. >> Yeah. >> I would advise against. >> of being a place to hang out because. they don't have places to hang out. You. know, the other thing is something like. matcha, which is now an entire. aesthetic. That kind of green ombre. Yeah. >> of get with it. Especially every single. matcha shop has the matcha of the day. written like like it's not okay. >> it's worse than hairdressers now, but. I've I've never hated the hairdresser. puns, but there's something about the. match ones that's really irksome. There's something that's come off Secret. Lives of Mormon Wives, which is beyond.

It's called a dirty soda. Okay, and it's. a fizzy drink with cream and syrup. There's like 90 g of sugar in one. >> Wow. >> Yeah. It That is a big thing, okay? It's. This is a. So, dirty soda. >> Yeah. That would be my private investigator. name. >> [laughter]. >> But, okay, so that is. So, I think it's the vodka crown. [laughter] because actually that's the. sort of advanced one, but the sort of. lower-level the things that people are. discarding because they think they've. become basic are things like Hugo Spritz.

or whatever. And the strawberry acai. lemonade refresher will be going down. from the cool teens to the. tweens now. Like Like Like the the. booboos did. >> But, there's so much money in it. >> It's It's unbelievable. And it's. >> the biggest companies in the world are. drinks companies in their various. iterations. I mean, it it So, it's it's. one of those things where for every sort. of fun little photo of, you know, the. sunlight through an Aperol Spritz, there's a like a multi-multi-multi-multi. billion industry just. >> These people are paying to be your We.

all pay to be their influencers. >> It's clever. >> It's It's unbelievable. And the same. with the tweens and the same with their. drink talk and then shaking the eyes. they're doing Everyone works for free. for these these companies if they get it. right. >> down to see Olly Smith this week, the. BBC wine expert who I love, down in Sussex, which now is like the. like wine country like champagne was it. 30 years ago. I said, "We've got to. invent next year's summer drink, Olly.". He said, "All right.". >> god, I really want you to. >> Yeah, with a bit of Sussex sparkling. wine. Well, are you going to something. like British, right? Because we've. amazing, you know, the sparkling Yeah,

it's got to have that in Sussex. And. then like we'll maybe find like some. sort of neglected English liqueur from. somewhere. Yeah. Yeah, but it's. I imagine it's harder than it sounds. >> longer than it sounds. >> Given that all the people who currently. have the drinks of the summer are all. multi-billion dollar corpo-. corporations, and it's just me and. Ollie. >> [laughter]. >> Sitting there with a drink. I'll tell. you what we should do. >> If anyone can game the system and work. out and drive himself mad, it's the. person who made those notes about about. the number ones. >> About the number ones, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> That guy can do it. I believe in him.

>> Any recommendations this week apart from. alcohol based ones? >> Apart from continuing to burn the candle. at both ends. Yes, somebody has now had. number one albums in five decades and. it's Madonna. I really like. Confessions too. I think it's great. It's a great pop up. It's really good. Okay, and we talked a bit about how the. film is probably never going to happen, but in a way this album is sort of. better than that. It's a It's a way of. It's looking back on her career in lots. of ways. There's lots of call backs to.

stuff. It's really good, but she does. just have this. cast iron belief in her own. exceptionalism and strength and worth. the line. I think I I really like it. Really good. >> I'm going to recommend on Apple Widows. Bay, the Matthew [laughter] Rhys show, which. is sort of like a comedy horror, but. it's really good. And anyone who's ever. wanted to write or anything, watch the. first 10 minutes of that and see the. world setting and see the character. setting. It's so beautifully done. Matthew Rhys is amazing. Funnily enough, we've got a question in the Q&A about. why there are so many British actors in.

Hollywood and I had a really, really, really interesting chat with the casting. director about it. So we'll we'll deal. with that on the Q&A, but Matthew Rhys. is amazing in it. It's really, really. smart. It's written by Katie Dippold who. wrote Parks and Rec and all sorts of. things. So I really, really love that. and it's also just. from nowhere just got a whole load of. Emmy nominations as well. I can. absolutely see why. So Widows Bay on. Apple is really, really It's kind of. funny, quirky, it's a bit scary, bits of it, but it's it's, you know, the. humor kind of overrides everything.

>> Now, can you please tell me what your. world cup of is this week? >> Yes, it is and I've been looking forward. to this one very much. The world cup of. UK quizzes. >> Oh my god. I thought I felt a. disturbance in the force. >> got the chase, we got pointless, we got. who wants we got who wants to be a. millionaire, we've got the lot. Mastermind, Uni Challenge. I'm talking. to John Robins and Daisy Adam about it. It's I really really really. >> Oh my god, I just. >> So, that's available to members from. tomorrow. If you want to be a member, go.

to the restiscentertainment.com. We'd. love to have you, but equally we we love. everyone who isn't a member as well. We. love you all equally. >> And we will be answering your questions. in the Q&A on Thursday, so. >> See you then. Bye. >> [music]. [music]. >> Hello and welcome to Doing It Anyway, a. brand new series from Goalhanger. I'm.

Katty Kay. I've spent years studying the. science and art [music] of confidence, writing books about how we can close the. confidence gap between men and women, and talking to experts [music] and. younger women about how to pass it on. Confidence means taking risks, acknowledging your fears, and well, doing it anyway. In this series, I'll be. talking to psychologists, entrepreneurs, and business leaders to unpack how you. can rethink challenges and grow your own. confidence. We'll talk about how to spot.

the difference between confidence and. competence, how to deal with office. politics [music]. and stolen credit, and yes, handling. rejection, and ultimately how you can. become a better leader, teammate, and. yes, a better person. Doing It Anyway. with Katty [music] Kay, every Friday, wherever you get your podcasts.