Is The Rock Cooking Up An Oscar?

[Music]. Hello and welcome to this episode of The. Rest. Actually, I can't do this. I can't. do this. >> Hi, it's Glenn Powell and you're. listening to The Rest is Entertainment. >> Are you kidding me? I thought you'd. messed up the intro. As listen, I mean, listen, I don't don't wish to peek. behind the curtain as you often do. That. Wow. >> Well, this show, as you know, is a peak. behind the curtain. And I do, yes, often. mess up the intro, Richard. But. >> so you're just back from LA yesterday.

>> I'm back from the cursed city of Los. Angeles, but there was a shining light. in that city. >> Can we hear it one more time? >> Yeah. Yes. Most Oh my god. If you don't. think you're going to be hearing this. for the next 6 months. >> Hi, it's Glenn Powell and you're. listening to the rest is entertainment. >> I love that you've kept in your tiny. little giggle at the end there. That is. >> you know how technologically proficient. I am. I'm amazed that actually recorded. I mean, let's hope the interview did as. well cuz you know I'll have to write it. up soon. I am writing up so we're not. going to talk in depth about it but when. it comes out we will. >> which is around the running man in about.

a month or so we will get right into the. weeds of it. I will simply say that. Glenn Pow is a great sport. >> Can I ask one question? >> If it had been a date would there be a. second date? >> Oh my god. In a heartbeat, please. >> Wow. Next day. >> You're literally like texting on the way. home. >> I don't know if I've ever told you this, but there was a friend a friend of mine. once interviewed David Atenburgh and it. was just a complete tack fail. the the. entire the tape was just completely. corrupted and it didn't work. Anyway, she rang him and told him and he said,

>> "Just come back again tomorrow and we'll. do it again.". >> Oh, that's a pro. That's cuz that's. happened to him before. He's had like. black bears who I said, "Look, I'm so. sorry. I know you were having sex with. your wife yesterday, but our cameraman. went to the Lou. We missed it." And the. bear go, you know what? I'll do it. again. That's fine. Absolutely. Where do. you need me? >> Above all, they are professionals and. national treasures. >> Um Oh, that's so cool. Yeah, but you're. over your jet lag. I only went for like. 72 hours, so I think I've had it in both. both cities. >> Who could I possibly get to record an.

introduction to this show that would top. Glen Powell? I don't see it. I think. you've got. >> Steven Spielberg. You could have asked. him. >> Emily is fine. He may, but he's no Glen. Powell. >> Nobody is. That's the point. >> I don't see who I could get. Sue. Pollard. Maybe. >> if you get Polard, then we'll talk. I. mean, I often think on this show of our. references, anybody under 40 is going, "Gosh, stop. talking about Sue Pollard." Anyway, what. are we talking about this week? And it. is not a Heidi High revival. Although, I. did see Jeffrey Holland in um. Sainsbury's the other day.

>> You didn't. >> Yeah. Spike from. >> Wow, you buried the lead with that one, >> didn't I? Just so it's not all Glen Pow. this week. There's also been Jeffrey. Holland. >> Did you stop and talk to him. >> again? Everyone under 40 is going What? >> Sorry. is. >> one of the great. What are we talking. about this week? >> Okay, we are talking about The Rock. Heard of him? >> Yes. >> The Rock is in a new movie that's an A24. movie and he has Oscar buzz. So, we're. going to talk about when two forces. collide. The Rock and Oscar campaign and.

that will be very amusing to me. certainly. >> Uh we're also going to talk about MI6 of. just going to Instagram. We're going to. talk about why they might have done. that. So, what is it they're trying to. do? Are they trying to make spying cool? What is the point of a security service. having an Instagram account? That's what. we're going to talk about. >> And we're also going to talk about. there's been a great streak of hits at. Warner Brothers under the eegis of two. executives. >> Like a proper a proper streak of. >> a real streak who most of the year. people have said we're going to be. fired. >> Yes. They say nobody knows anything, but.

sometimes I wonder if some people do. know something. >> Some people appear to have known some. stuff, don't they? >> And certainly if they do, Mike Duca and. Pam Abdi would be high on that list. We. will discuss that. But look, listen. I. mean, I find it very difficult not to. think about Glenn Pal, but let's take. our mind off Glen Pal with the rock. >> This is a man who stood up at the 2019. MTV Movie Awards and said, you know, for. a long time, who's a hu obviously has. been in everything hugely commercial and. said, for a long time, you know, I. worried how I was going to conform to. Hollywood, but then I realized I wasn't.

going to conform to Hollywood. Hollywood. was going to conform to me. >> Wow. What was he promoting? Hubris 3. >> Yeah. Which probably did really well. Anyway, um he's, as we know, he's been. in huge kind of franchise movies. He's. at certain points attempted to rroot. entire superhero franchise universes. through himself, which we'll come to. But he's now in an A24 movie called The. Smashing Machine, which is directed by. Benny Saf, written and directed by Benny. Safy. It's about um an amateur wrestler. and um uh an MMA fighter called Mark Kr.

and and The Rock has had to um he says. he's you know there were 13 or 14. prosthetics he had to wear to transform. into him. So that's how much acting. there is Richard. That's how much act. that's how serious this is. >> It's 13 or 14 acting. >> And as I say the movie has Oscar buzz. because it premiered at one of the big. festivals where if you're going on an. awards run that you want to be at and it. premiered at Venice. He appeared on the. red carpet much less bulked up but. crucially wearing glasses.

>> Wow. There you go, Oscar. Hello. >> After one of those, you know, meaningless 15-minute standing evations, >> uh, he cried. We're entering the era, the era of emo rock for. >> Did he have to take his glasses off to. cry? That's that's reacting when you. take them off and you wipe and then you. put them back on stoically. >> There's a review which described this, used the words laceratingly humane. So, that's now the most overroought thing. he's ever appeared in since the uh the. feud with Stone Cold Steve Austin. my. favorite type of humane as well.

Laceratingly so. >> lacerating humane. There's a such a type. of review writing and that's an. unfortunate. >> by the way for I know you're having fun. with this but I can see it. I could. listen I haven't seen the movie but uh I. could see the the Rock getting himself. an Oscar at some point. You know some. people you know look at Adam Sandler. I. could see Adam Sandler getting a uh. getting Oscar. >> I don't think he's going to get it for. this but we we'll get to that. But you. know why might you? First of all, the. academy loves a transformation, you know, and ideally you would be um a. woman putting on weight and looking ugly.

and then like you're you know the kind. of the Charlie's playbook. Then you're. definitely kind of locked on. Some of. them you can't do anymore. I don't think. you'd have an able-bodied person playing. a disabled person perhaps any longer, but that has happened and that's one way. of a transformation. weight loss, dramatic weight loss. That's another way. for men. >> But also, there's not a lot of that. about in Hollywood these days. So, it. says, >> "No, I know anyone can do it now." If. The Rock, 53, wished to lose bulk, he. could simply stop doing certain things.

But yeah, he could simply stop doing it. But anyhow, >> is he calling himself the pebble now? >> Yeah. Well, there is a bit there is a. bit of that. So, there is a bit of he. has sort of lost some maths. >> Um, but actually, I think. >> Have you Wow, I haven't seen you in a. while. He lost some mass. >> Have you he lost some mass? Well, that's. how he talks really. You see, you have. to remember that you've been in one A24. movie, mate. Sit down. But he has to. talk like he he's always talked about. mass and you know, better never stops. all the workout videos. >> You lost some mass from your hair.

>> You lost some mass. >> That looks It looks lovely. You lost. some mass from that. >> The real rock twist on the. transformation is. >> he is transforming from someone who I. used to just have blockbusters and now. I'm someone artouse. >> Yeah. Uh, and I find it he said after. Venice, after the premiere, you know, sometimes it's hard to know what you're. capable of when you've been pigeonholed. It's like, >> oh my god, he's been pigeonhold. That. >> sorry, pigeon holed. >> That'll lose weight. >> This, you know, yeah, that will that. will suddenly lose you weight. He said,

you know, you're doing what Hollywood. wants you to do. It's like, no, it's. what you, the Rock, wanted to do. I This. is the This is the big the big acting of. this entire awards season. It's The Rock. pretending that his entire mega. commercial career is just like something. he was accidentally forced into. He. didn't bear in mind he wasn't just in. these movies like based on theme park. rides or whatever they were. He produced. them as well. Remember the last one that. we talked about. I think we mentioned.

Red One, the the Christmas one. >> And there was It didn't do that well. In. fact, it didn't do well at all. theatrically, but they kept it on a. really short window and put it um. straight onto Amazon. >> And he didn't win an Oscar for He should. have won an Oscar for this tweet though, which was, "Our little Christmas movie. Red One shattered a viewing record for. Amazon Prime Video with 50 million. viewers this past weekend. Red One has a. very long shelf life with multiple. verticals. Kudos to our Amazon partners. for their strategic win that's just. getting started." Oh my god, this guy.

this guy's been pigeonhold, has he? Yeah. Please, please. Do you remember in. um in Pretty Woman where Richard Gear. says to the Jason Alexander character, I. made you a very rich man doing exactly. what you loved. And that is I'm afraid. what has happened with The Rock. He's. got the biggest animal agent in the. whole of Hollywood, Ari Emanuel, who's. put him on the board of all, you know, bought back his name, The Rock, put him. on the board of all these kind of UFC. and things like that. So, we're now. having to watch the spectacle of The. Rock. And we've got months of this, by. the way, because it's you got which, by.

the way, I'm in heaven. Um because this. is what I want for my celebrities. So he. said, you know, sometimes it takes. people who you love and respect like. Emily and Benny, that's Emily Blunt, who. he is uh who co-stars with him in this. to say that you can I know. Well, she. was last I mean I saw them in Jungle. Cruise together, a movie based I saw. that in theaters, if you can believe it. Uh movie based on a theme park ride. So. we're now going to have to watch him be, you know, the little superstar that. could. >> Yes. >> Uh and and and we have to believe that. he's been held back by self-doubt all.

these years. The Rock. How can we. believe that The Rock is this is the. real acting of awards season? I truly. believe it. And he said, "I, you know, I. looked around a few years ago and I. started to think, you know, am I living. my dream or am I living other people's. dream?". >> Clever. >> Your dream. You're living your dream. >> It was yours. Cuz listen, I've had a lot. of dreams in my time. None of them have. been I wish The Rock could get paid $25. million a movie. That was Listen, I'm. happy that he does, but it was never my. dream. No, you unless you've buried it. and you could have it kind of extracted.

from you via some sort of dream. therapist. But I don't think that any of. us. >> I hope by the way I haven't seen I hope. when we do our Q&A um episode this week. I said last week I dreamt the perfect. episode of the bill and I'd ask. someone's I'd ask people asked the. question so I hope someone has. Anyway, that's my dream. The perfect. >> said to me the other the other morning, oh my god, I dreamt I was being forced. to persuade David Hasselhoff not to wear. blackface to a party. That was the first. thing he said to me when I woke up. I. was like, "Wow, so sorry. It's very. early.". >> I mean, that's a very particular. household.

>> It's a very particular dream. And funny. after it got the day got really busy and. I've just that's just come out of a. memory hole and I've realized I've never. gone back to him. I hope it didn't slip. away in that kind of state and he can. now can't remember the full details of. the dream. >> I hope like tomorrow David Hassoff. doesn't wear blackface to a party and. Kieran forgot to tell him. >> That would be even worse. >> Well, let's keep an eye on that that. Mark that story is developing. Richard. the Rock is a guy who posts on Instagram. about candy asses on the Fast and. Furious franchise. You remember he has. it written into his contract that he.

can't lose a fight. >> Oh, that's clever. >> Yeah, Vin Diesel has that as well. >> You have that on this podcast. >> I wish I did. But okay, so I can't. explain how much I'm going to enjoy this. campaign to get him an Oscar. And it. will stay with me so much longer than. whatever the smashing machine turns out. to be like. I'm sure it's fine. >> because by the way people can turn into. unbelievably great actors. So you can. have this incredible career and yet then. you can do indie stuff. I remember Will. Smith when he was in Six Degrees of. Separation and everyone's going well. this guy can't act. You think what? He.

just hasn't done that stuff before but. of course he can act and he shows that. he can. So he definitely could do it. It's just how you go about letting the. academy know that you are doing it. >> Yeah. And I mean he's not going to do it. quietly. He's going to do everything to. get this. He. >> well because because he's been down. Toronto for a long time. Sometimes if. you've been oppressed and your voice is. finally heard, you know, you shout. >> Well, he's he's trying what what he's. trying to doing do do as well, which. actors all when they're running an Oscar. campaign often do, is try and find a way.

to link it with them personally to make. it this film is about my struggle too. So he said it's also a film about what. happens when winning becomes the enemy. And I think we can all relate to that. pressure. First of all, no. Most people. in the world do not regard winning as. the enemy. >> Yeah, I'm a Fulham fan, mate. I'll take. I'll take a last minute lead goal. I. really will. >> But most people don't have that. What. he's trying to say is, "Yeah, no, I. know. I've been really, really. successful, but sometimes that's the. worst thing that can happen to someone.".

So, he really is trying to link that in. the academyy's mind. >> You have to slightly be an underdog. So, he's he has to and it's very hard for. the Rock to be an underdog. Uh and if by. the way winning has become an issue for. him or being a perfectionist or always. being the very best of the very best. that's a that's a simple conversation. with your therapist. You do not need to. tell tell the rest of us that everyone's. going through something. The rock this. is not this is not unique to you. I'm. you know winning being a problem for you. probably is fairly unique. But we've all. got something you know where's our. Academy Award. >> Well he's thinking where's mine and he.

will as I say do anything to get it. But. what so I like thinking about what's. going to come next cuz as I say. >> we're only in September and it's quite a. long. >> Yeah. So what's the playbook? >> So the playbook now you have to do all. sorts of different things. And one of my. favorite bits of it is the trade. publications do roundts where people who. have got buzz around them that that. particular time. Um also the actors will. all sit down together. >> All the people who might be nominated. sit down. >> and they also do um the actors on.

actors. Um, and those are the pairings. which I find, you know, and they sort of. interview each other and have a. conversation together. >> That sounds unbearable. >> No. Oh, no. Okay. >> Is this filmed by the way? Like, can we. see it or they're off? Yes, they're. often or they'll do a small bit for. social media, but then someone will. transcribe the conversation and they'll. do, you know, the Hollywood Reporter. does them, Variety does them. There. various other ways to do. So, actually, The Rock and Timothy Shalomé because the. other Safy brothers doing Marty Supreme, which Timothy Shalamé might get. nominated for. Okay. >> What about The Rock and Russell Crowe? I.

mean, >> oh my goodness. Yes, please. >> I mean, Big Rusty Crow and The Rock. >> Can you imagine the Titanic struggle for. that? That Yeah, he's cuz he's in. Nuremberg. Um Rusty Craig. Uh is he. >> not literally? They've restarted it just. to deal with him. >> So, you do those sitdowns. What else can. you do? How how else are you winning. over the academy? >> You've got an unbelievably long period. of um lunches. That's the last thing he. needs with the weight he's trying to. lose.

>> I think that, you know, they probably. just serve letters cuz everyone's on a. Zenic now anyway, so it doesn't matter. So there's all sorts of events um and it. interviews and um kind of socializes. for months basically if you're going for. it. It takes a huge amount of time up if. you really are kind of. >> gunning for one of these things. And as. we've discussed before on the podcast, they put an enormous amount of money. behind these campaigns. >> I mean, it really is incredibly. inorganic. We had the Emmys at the. weekend as well and very very rare that. someone wins that you don't sort of know.

is going to win or hasn't been kind of. out in front of the race. It is. incredibly inorganic. >> and if you look at the trade. publications um which are mostly free. online and you look at them in the. months before you will see just so many. adverts you know quite sort of industry. type newsletters or substs will suddenly. become sponsored by adolescence or. whatever it is and so you're constantly. putting those names in front of people. Congratulations, by the way, to Owen. Cooper and Steven Graham and Aaron. Doerty and Philip uh Philip Barentini.

who we spoke to for all winning Emmys. >> That was terrific. That was Yeah, that. was terrific. And you know, but I've. it's very interesting how much that show. has been put in all sorts of different. industries, people's timeline as it. were, um virtual and real um over the. past few months. And that's what happens. with an Oscar campaign um is that there. are so many different things. It's. almost like especially if you're trying. to go for the Oscar, the key is to say. the thing absolutely thing about me is. I'm I'm actually not alpha. All along I. wasn't alpha and so probably you should.

give me an Academy Award. And that's a. room where two alpha males would. desperately be trying to underpha each. other. >> Yeah. >> Oh I am. >> The Rock and Leonardo DiCaprio together. >> Oh yes, please. >> These are all people who were like are. going to be in the mix for it this year. The Rock Leonardo DiCaprio for one. battle after another. The Rock and. George Clooney. My personal dream for. the actor pairings is The Rock and. Daniel D Lewis. Please, please just let. it happen. I I can't just imagine how.

sad the glasses would have to be. He'd. have to have the saddest possible. glasses. >> Honestly, I can see The Rock nodding. now. >> Oh, so can No, but I would have stentile. syndrome. You know what stentile. syndrome is? I don't. Okay. Stenal. syndrome is named after stental who went. to went to Florence and he saw like. >> Is it Is he Is he a playwright? Uh, no, he's not a playwright. He's he's a he's. a writer. Anyway, Stenal, French writer, goes to Florence and he sees the Jotto. frescos and he's overcome like he's got. like sort of palpitations. He's. basically fainting with delight at the.

beauty of it all. And I'm going to get. Stenile syndrome for definite if I can. see an actor an actors on actors pairing. involving The Rock and Daniel D Lewis. both just like, you know, not in any way. trying to win an Oscar here. >> Wow. Little little or. >> it's almost impossible to think of. anyone that you wouldn't team up with. The Rock and it would be an interesting. thing to watch. The Rock trying to be. magnanimous. The Rock and Jeffrey. Holland. >> The Rock and Jeffrey Holland. You I mean. I don't want to say he's a second tier. character in Heidi High, but this No,

he's not. Okay. >> Well, Jeff, >> we think Spike is a second tier. character in Heidi High. No, I don't. >> When was the last time you I mean. literally couldn't be more top tier. Who. Who's top tier? Spike is second tier. >> Gladis Ted. I can't believe we're doing. this. >> Spike. >> Gladice. Spike um. >> Maggie Ottoman super. >> why can't I think of Simon Cadell what's. the name of him why. >> Jeffrey Fair brother. >> let's pull out of this now but that's. all I can say to you about the rock. >> are we finished talking about the rock. >> I think we are. >> it's a watch this space. >> but just keep watching it just enjoy it.

this is the true acting of awards season. is watching the rock pretend that. everything that's happened to him every. DC universe he's tried to rroot through. his own personage every single like. gazillion dollar check he's made Ari. Emanuel get for him. Yeah. Is just like. an accident and if anything a form of. oppression and that actually what he. really is is an art house underdog who. just deserves a nod. >> Like like Alexander Eac saying I cannot. believe the conditions I'm expected to. operate under. You want me to what my.

contract honor it? How old is the rock? Just out of interest. >> 53. >> Well, there's your answer. But you I. mean you know what I mean. He's done the. same thing for a long time. He's got. enough money. He's thinking. >> you think he's going to go into an art. house era. I don't think The Rock will. remain in an art in an art house. >> I agree with that. I think though he. wants he's got something missing. >> One for them and one for me. That's what. he's going to do now. >> He wants respect. I think maybe. >> read one too. >> Maybe somewhere on his radar. >> And then remaking my dinner with Andre. I mean, come on. Do me a favor. >> Thank God for midlife crises.

>> They're a lot of fun. For example, say. that for The Smashing Machine, Hollywood, um, which I'd like to talk. about in a in a bit, the actual film. itself, cuz I'm rather looking forward. to it. But say that Hollywood recognizes. that The Rock is doing something. different. Uh, he's it's a great. performance. It's a it's a great film, but they can't nominate him this time. round. They're thinking, do you know. what? There's other people in the queue. There have been other great. performances. Also, it's it's it's too. much of a pivot. We need to see his next.

art house movie. His next art house. movie. How many art house movies does. The Rock do, do you think, before he. gives up and just says this is so I I've. been thinking about this. I agree. I I. don't think he'll get it for this for. definite. I'm pretty sure. I mean, but. you can see all sorts of funny things. happen in the races and you saw last. year what happened with things like. Amelia Perez. sudden suddenly things can. kind of. >> well Stallone was nominated for Creed. and that was nearly what 40 years after. you know his nominations for Rocky he.

you know he'd really sort of put in a. lot of work you know he done he'd done a. lot of kind of you know Copland and. movies like that before you know they. finally gave him another nomination. >> we'll see what the Rock's patience is. for doing these types of movies that. don't have great verticals if I can what. what is he talking about But if we'll. we'll see what the his propensity for. doing many candy ass movies. >> Yeah. Before he does a sequel to Red. One, which I'm assuming has to be called. Red One Too. >> Red One Too. Yeah. >> Doesn't seem right. >> No. And then I I mean, let's just see. I.

mean, he is a very determined human. breaking news. You always come for the. backstage gossip on this show. The Rock. is quite determined, I can reveal. >> But it does look like a good movie. Although the guy who directed Uncut. Gems, which some people love and some. people took against, I'm I'm I'm in the. latter camp. I'm in the letter camp. There's a doc HBO documentary called The. Smashing Machine about Mark Hut that's. really really good. >> And the 13 or 14 prosthetics. >> 13 or 14? Yeah. >> So much acting. >> Shall we go to a break? >> I think we should.

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today. Welcome back everybody. Now, MI6 has. joined Instagram. Uh MI6 famously has. this incredible sheen of cool because. it's the home of James Bond, but of. course isn't really the home of James. Bond. So, what is it they're trying to. do? Are they trying to make spying cool? What is the point of a security service. having an Instagram account? That's what.

we're going to talk about. They have. recently launched about a week ago. they've launched on Instagram MI6 uh the. secret intelligence service sis which. sounds like a furniture supertore. >> s just off the M25 pearly. >> way cudden. >> um and they've launched on Instagram and. their first post was about James Bond or. was very much related to James Bond. because obviously the most famous person. who ever worked for MI6. >> is James Bond. Um and they said lots of.

other people have told our stories now. it's time for um us to tell our own. Now. first of all why are they doing this? >> Well they are one of the most famous. organizations in the world weirdly. because of James Bond. >> Yeah. >> is the truth. But what James Bond does. bears I'm assuming almost zero relation. to what MI6 actually do. I mean, maybe. they're absailing off dams and driving. motorbikes off glacias, but it it feels. like they're probably not. It feels like. they're probably looking up online.

chatter and trying to um uh stop threats. to national security. But having had. their story told for so long by other. people and having seen the world in. which we live where transparency and. authenticity seems to be the key to. everything. I guess the most secretive. organization in the world thinks it's. time to be transparent about quite how. secretive we are. >> I think that's right. I think that the. two key reasons they do these things for. above all the most key reason is for. recruitment. Um because I think that.

you're just trying to look for different. types of people. there's such a. perception that um I I don't know the. security services for a certain type of. people and I think that the I if you're. trying to get mavericks and people from. completely different walks of life to. notice you and to think of that that. might be something that they can do um. then I think that is a very key way of. being able to reach people in a. different way. Yeah, I think I think. certainly they they don't feel there's a. shortage of white middle- class people.

um on their radar who they can recruit. And so it's a it's a very good way of. getting out there and showing people. that it's it's an actual job and it's. peopleled by real actual human beings, I. guess. >> And there there have always been these. sort of things. I mean, when Silence of. the Lambs came out, um it was because. the FBI want one of the reasons that. they helped and cooperated in various. ways is because they they wanted to. recruit more female agents. Um, >> that would do it. >> Yeah. Well, >> well, I mean, strangely, these things do. have a positive effect. Top Gun, um,

they had recruiting desks in cinema. lobbies, the um, US Navy. It was, and it. wasn't made for in order to rebrand the. US Navy, but they cooperated with it. because they realized that it would have. a sort of useful effect. >> I mean, that's like press ganging, isn't. it? That that really is, you know, when. when the Navy would get you coming out. of a pub and you were drunk and they. said, "You want to sign up?" and you. know they just march you onto a ship. like when you've just come out of Top. Gun, one of the greatest movies of all. time is absolutely pumped and someone. says would would you like to do that?

Hell hell yeah I'd like to do that. Yeah. And before you know it you're in. Fort Worth. >> Yeah. I don't think always more. transparency. They are probably the most. trusted one of the most trusted. government organizations and they have. less transparency than any of the. others. >> Well, I'd be terrified to not trust. them. >> Yeah. >> You know, absolutely. >> Like if they say, "Do you trust us? Hell. yeah, I trust you. >> Well, well, the other reason is I think. that people that they might be doing, you know, you want to continue to retain.

consent or what what you hope is consent. for various types of surveillance. programs and other things like that. Um, >> so, so if you're saying, listen, I. absolutely recognize uh what you did. there, but uh you're a lot of fun on. Instagram, so I'm going to I'm going to. let I'm going to let you get away with. it. Well, GCHQ have gone they went much. earlier onto Instagram and they did a. sort of I there was some you have to be. quite careful because. >> and they're more codereaky more sort of. listening and yeah sort of intercepting.

messages and all all that kind of stuff. >> Yes. Um and they did a post I think I. want to say it was last Halloween where. there were spooks and there there was a. sort of spooks and spook and I think. some people thought it was physicious. Um, and I know I I think in general it's. the always there's institutional. resistance to doing things like this, but the the prize of drawing completely. different sorts of people into your. recruitment process must be worth it. >> Well, talking of spooks, you know, when.

Spooks the which was based on MI5, that. was supposedly the kind of greatest ever. recruiting campaign MI5 ever had. I'm. not saying they funded it. I'm not. saying they didn't fund it. I'm just. saying that weirdly um since I was. looking at this I started watching. Spooks I never saw it the first time. around Ingred was always saying you must. watch Spooks you got to watch Spooks so. before we go to recommendations later. it's so brilliant I mean it's genuinely. I I know people over the years have said. oh you know it's actually pretty good I. mean that cast. >> the cast is ridiculous Matthew McFaden.

David a yellow o and I was watching one. the other day like a a very young. Benedict Cumberbatch turns up causing. trouble it's but it's so good it's. brilliantly directed holds up. If you. haven't watched Spooks, the whole thing. is available on iPad. I know we're. talking about MI6 on Instagram, but this. is a it's not even a sidebar. No. >> Um, but watching it and, you know, reading that this was one of the. greatest ever recruitment campaigns MI5. ever had and suddenly applications to to. to join them went up, you're thinking, I.

mean, there's a there's a lot of people. getting blown up in that show. >> Yeah. >> There's a lot of and and and a lot. there's a lot of bad things happening, but we're all still going, oh yeah, but. be cool. Yeah, absolutely. And there's a. there's a guy actually called Tom Seeker. who runs a website called Spy Culture. that tries to track the cooperation. between various government agencies and. um in the end entertainment industry. So. there are lots of shows that are. supported or at least advised by agency. um or former agency people. It's very.

interesting when you see just how much. cooperation there is and there always. has been behind the scenes. The CIA have. I mean cooperated and molded to some. extent lots of Hollywood product for a. very very long time going all the way. back to the 40s really. Um, and I think. that those ways of drawing people in I'm. quite surprised that that they don't do. more podcasts in a funny kind of a way. because I. >> Well, no. Yeah, but there Okay, there. are some. Okay, I've listened to one. I've listened to an FBI one and it was.

quite boring. Then there's a better one. There's a CIA one. I listened to like. ghosts of Langley and they were talking. about stories of ghosts and that sort of. haunt their halls and ghosts. >> Yeah. >> Um, and I. >> What are they covering up though? >> Well, I mean that's the thing. Okay, maybe they are. Maybe they aren't, but. we know that young people like lots of. short form video, but they also like. long form audio or want to watch. >> and they like the idea of spying. >> Yes. And I think it's really interesting. that and I definitely think that lots of. these people should move into because.

you you can there are ways of talking. about um secret keeping that don't. divulge any secrets. Um it just the the. idea of how secrets are kept in so many. is interesting. There's lots of. different ways that people could involve. people and not make them dry. The the. It's quite hard not to though to make. these things really really dry because. it has to always have to go through so. many layers of bureaucracy to. >> Yeah. You can't you can't really be sort. of like have like instant memes going. You can't be like the kind of Wendy's.

admin you know or the you know Fulham's. admin. Yeah. >> When we made you know you have to you do. have to sort of take it quite seriously. is quite an interesting balance to have. But anyone, you know, I I understand if. people say they shouldn't be on, you. know, social media. But if we think that. spies haven't been on social media for a. very long time, then we haven't. understood the history of the 21st. century. Our entire political culture. has been dominated by the fact that. foreign agencies, our own agencies. absolutely have infiltrated social. media. Just they haven't just said, "Where am I six? This is our Instagram.

account." But, you know, like the CIA, for example, they put out um these. incredible recruitment videos. They're. all in Mandarin. They posted on YouTube. They posted on X. They explicitly target. Chinese government officials, you know, talking about, you know, corruption, you. know, highlighting disillusionment, trying literally trying to recruit them. So that's a very overt way of doing it. As you say, MI6 being on Instagram is a. very over way of of recruiting people as. well. But yeah, the the whole history of. our politics comes from troll farms and.

it comes from, you know, the Russians. and the Iranians and I'm sure the Brits. as well, by the way, just leaking. disinformation into foreign countries. and foreign territories. They've they've. absolutely used Instagram and X and. YouTube and the darker recesses of uh. the internet for years and years and. years and years now. the world of. security services on social media. This. is the cuddly end of it. Yeah. But it's. um I mean that's that's been the big. battleground in the in in the last 25. years or so.

>> as a front of house thing. It is so hard. to do well and to think and to to get. what you want out of it. And they will. grow as a sort of posting force because. they'll realize where the lines are and. h how best to appeal. But I I definitely. don't think it's a stupid idea to do it. simply because of recruitment. >> Yeah. And that's all it's for, by the. way. It's not, oh god, are they trying. to be trendy? Are they trying to be. woke? Are they trying to They're. literally thinking, no, we we need. really really good interesting people. and from places where we're not finding.

them. I wonder if uh I wonder if this is. a good place to get them. I was looking. at who um MI6 follow the first follow. This is so cute. Their first follow is. MI5. >> A. >> isn't that lovely? Yeah. >> But that's like really nice. But also if. you're MI5 and you know their first cuz. they I think their second follow is CIA. >> and but you someone somewhere has had to. go. >> okay we're going to do our follows. >> they would have had a big meeting about. who they follow right and they say well. and we got to do like five because they. follow us and it'd be awkward CIA and. someone go please do them in that order.

please don't get these out of order they. follow the. >> oh my god GCHQ are going to lose their. mind if they're not third on the list. >> Yeah exactly. Um but they they only. follow I think um 10 people at the. moment. They should add a they should. add I would add a couple of randoms. Just a terrible. >> That's like me. I follow I have I have. um a private Instagram account in which. I follow 26 British interior designers. and Glenn Pal. >> No, >> no plans to widen the catchment. That's. it. >> Really? >> Oh, that's very cool. You're like um.

you're like MI6. >> Yeah, I am like MI6. But in some ways, you know, should be very much kept away. from any form of recruitment process. Perhaps they follow thousands of people. We just don't know about it because they. just they're very. >> They've got a burner. I mean, I'm pretty. sure they got a burner, Richard. I don't. I don't know much about the security. services, but I've got get the vibe. they've got a burner. >> Yeah. I wonder if they got an account. like yours where they where they're. following interior designers. Someone. must have done the interior design for. MI6, right? >> Someone must have. >> That's a hell of a gig. >> Yeah, >> I'm guessing it's pastels. >> Yeah, just something really plain and.

simple. Yeah. >> What do you think? >> Well, no. You just think it's a lot of. chints. >> Yeah. >> Lot of pastel chints. >> Yeah, pastel chins. Well, you got to. hide bugs. I Yeah, you're right. >> Yeah. So, to answer our initial. question, are they trying to make spying. cool? Well, firstly, I think they Yes, I. think they're trying to recruit people. >> Of course, spying is cool. Let's face. it, and anyone who I mean, yeah. Yeah. There have been a few negative stories. about it, >> but I think the bedrock is that we all. think at some level spying is cool and. we're sort of drawn to it.

>> Yeah. But then you watch Keys on Spooks. and she can't remember who she is. sometimes. You know, there's like days. where she's three different people and. you can see it's getting to her. >> Yeah. >> Or then though then but then she married. Matthew Mafajin. >> So that's nice as well because they. weren't they weren't married when it. started. That's lovely to see as well. >> Okay. Now we want to talk about Michael. Duca and Pam Abdi. They are the. co-chairs of Warner Brothers film. division. At the beginning of 2025, the. trade press was full of stories that. they were being fired. David Zazlaf, who's the sort of Uber boss of the whole.

place, was interviewing everybody in the. business. There had been a couple of big. failures. >> They only took over in 2022, I should. say, and they come as a pair. Um, and. this year was their first full slate, by. the way. It wasn't just at the beginning. of the year. It went all the way through. to late April, whatever. And it's really. this so this year was really their first. full slate as in if you take over a. studio then obviously there's things in. the pipeline that are going to come out. >> So people are being interviewed to.

replace them because there's a series of. flops but the thing is they were not. their flops. Would I be right in saying. that? >> You yes you would be right in saying. that. And also there really weren't that. many of them. What was particularly. interesting uh so by April this year. people it was almost like a sort of fair. comply it was going to happen. But what. to me was most interesting was people. were saying on all these bets they've. placed that are just too risky. But the. films hadn't come out yet. >> Listener, it turns out they weren't.

fired and they went on to have the. greatest streak of hit movies almost in. Hollywood history. How on earth were. they almost fired? >> Well, what I find really weird about. this story is that there was a sort of. overwhelming chatter that they were. going to be fired, that they should be. fired. It was a sort of a freeding. frenzy. A large amount of it was done on. anonymous quotes. Um Mike Duca actually. ended up calling it the snark industrial. complex. Um because it was just a sort. of overdrive of people saying but what.

to me what's really interesting this is. a business in some form of emotional. crisis if the movies haven't come out. yet and you're saying they should be. fired for these movies that are. obviously going to be flops. Okay. You. should always. >> So So there are a couple of movies that. had flop that weren't theirs, right? So, um Mickey. >> Mickey 17 the um Bong Junho one um with. Robert Patterson in um Mad Max Furiosa. but um Joker Fier we talked a lot about. how on earth did that happen um but the.

thing I would say is that Todd Phillips. is has made some great movies. um he's. really believed in himself on difficult. things before and they've come off. >> Great directors sometimes make flops. That is just the reality and that you. can't think of a single director and. that's everyone from Spielberg, Scorsesei, Damat who hasn't made a big. flop and it does happen and I think for. people to just sort of that's so much.

part of the culture nowadays in the old. days people were this was allowed to. happen and you understood that you were. playing on a law of averages and that. over the long game you it's much better. to be in business with I don't know Todd. Phillips or whoever it is but everybody. does this sometimes and it's it's part. of Yeah. And the playbook of these two. um Mike Duca and Pam Abby had always. been to find great filmmakers and give. them some money and give them a bit of. freedom. So Mike Duca had done what I. was a new line in his 20s. >> He's he's the executive on Dr. Maro.

>> So he's he he did uh The Mask Seven, Austin Powers, Boogie Night. So these. are all films that could have failed and. didn't. He also, as you say, did The. Island of Dr. in a row, which which is. you can tell a film's bad when we've. done an entire bonus episode about it, but exactly the same thing. A series, I. think, >> a series a series of films made by great. filmmakers that did more money than you. would think they were going to do and. then the odd flop. So, that's what they. had. So, they were going to be replaced, >> then seven movies in a row over $40.

million. Should we should we name them. just so people. >> Well, it begins with Minecraft. Uh, >> which was a lot over $40 million. >> Oh my gosh. I mean, you know, as you. know, I hated it. >> Yeah. But but no one thought that would. be a that came sort of No one thought. that would be a huge. >> people thought I might make something. but it's not going to be the biggest. movie of the year. It's not. >> come on. They've got Minecraft. It's not. going to be like Super Mario Brothers. Oh, it is. >> Yeah. >> Uh then they've had Sinners. Now Sinners. is they were totally taken to task for. Sinners because they gave Ryan Cougler a. special deal where he's eventually going.

to own the IP for Sinners. Sinners is. extraordinary. It's got completely. different audiences into cinemas. It's. done so unbelievably well. It's original. IP. >> It's an original. So yeah, we'll get on. to that. Weapons, which is same thing. >> Yeah, again an original. Conjuring last. rights, >> which again is like about a ninetime. sequel, Final Destination sequel as. well. They just again the people like. Ryan Cougler, making weapons and. sinners, which are original IP, then. understanding which franchises there is. a latent audience for, like Conjuring,

like Final Destination. They made bets. on all of those things. F1 the movie. Superman things like that which are. slightly more traditional fair but they. have not. >> they released F1 that Apple made it but. they they released it but it's it's been. I find this really annoying because as I. say take saying that people be sack for. things that haven't yet happened. I I'm. not I can't get behind that. And also. people are so wet they say that they. want originals and they want commercial. originals. dream of commercial originals.

and they say they want big swings and. yet they want filmmaker friendly. executives. They want all of those. things and these Mike um Mike Duke and. Pam Mabi did all of those things and the. entire like overwhelming chatter was. that they should be sacked. Now certain. executives when you get to a stage and. this is not you know people will. recognize this in their own businesses. nothing to do with entertainment. you. get to a stage and you'll get this. executive position and all that can now. really happen is that can be taken away.

from you. So you become incredibly risk. averse. Um and actually when I was. thinking about this before I came along. I was thinking of something that I think. about all the time which is um Diego. Torres the Spanish football writer when. he did a biography of Jose Mourinho he. kind of codified what Heathther said was. Mourinho's playing philosophy. And I. absolutely love this. I'm going to read. it out. The game is won by the team that. commits fewer errors. Football favors. whoever provokes more errors in the. opposition away from home instead of. trying to be superior to the opposition.

is better to encourage their mistakes. Whoever has the ball is more likely to. make a mistake. Whoever renounces. possession reduces the possibility. therefore of making mistake. Whoever has. the ball has fear. Whoever does not have. it is thereby stronger. I think about. that so much that that particular form. of like actually it's just best if I. don't really do anything and I allow and. it's a form of kind of really kind of. necrotic agency in itself and I think. about it a lot in politics and.

definitely in terms of executives who. have the power to greenlight things. They did everything that Hollywood says. it wants and they were like completely. hung out to dry before the results were. even known. >> Because if you're a very senior person, Sophie, say you're David Zazaf at Warers. and. >> who no one's, you know, who tanks the. share price all the time and gets paid a. bazillion pounds and we start to talk. about how much money Ryan Cougler is. being paid for sinners. Well, so what? >> And also, by the way, probably not. someone who can wake up in the morning. with a blank piece of paper and write. down an idea and make a load of money, but that's that's not what he does. He's.

a he's a business guy and as you say. he's reached a stage in an organization. where you think well I sort of in charge. of everything now where else do I go and. I saw it when TV reconsolidated 1015. years ago suddenly people being bought. in who didn't understand what creativity. was but needed it needed you constantly. to come up with IP needed you constantly. to feed the furnace and and make money. but didn't know how that was done and. yet somehow were senior endm when I. worked for years had long time when it.

was run by creatives and that actually. was the the kind of most uh you know. profitable part of it time and then it. it it turned into something else. So. David Zazlaf does not know how he is. going to have a hit. Doesn't know how to. do it. He's not capable of doing it. himself. And by the way, even if you are. capable of doing it yourself, you still. don't really. >> Oh, he's not because we actually have an. example of a movie David Dadlav. effectively personally green lit this. year called Alto Nights, which is Nick. Pledgy, who's the screenwriter of Good. Fellas among other things. He I think.

they they have some like Hampton's house. next door to each other and he green lit. this film effectively himself and it has. Robert Dairo in it did so badly and it. was really expensive. So he does not. know how to do this. >> and by the way was one of the reasons. behind him thinking I need to sack Mike. and Pam. So he's got two jobs really. one to sit around and keep his fingers. crossed there are going to be hits and. the second there are hits to be able to. take credit for them and say there we go. that's on my watch and you know the.

second you have a hit the amount of. people who claim credit for it you think. >> wow cuz just I just remember you going. this better not fail. >> that's all I remember you saying about. that show and yet now you're kind of. going well this is it you know we give. freedom to people and uh and uh it's. just the way I run the business. >> he either does that but also So being. aware that sometimes you're going to. have two flops or three flops in a row. or something like that. You have to find. your scapegoats. So you have to kind of. go every time there's a hit you go, I. know how to run this business. I know.

how to run Warner Brothers. And when. there are flops, you go, listen, we took. a swing with Mike and Pound. We took a. swing and I I don't regret it. You know, you have to take swings in this. business. It's a creative industry, but. uh they just they threw the wrong amount. of money at the wrong people and we we. we absolutely need a different course. while your personal salary is something. like $230 million a year. >> Yeah. Cuz you're not going to get fired. because you're because who's going to. fire you? You. That's a you're the only. person who can fire yourself. >> So, absolutely, your job is to you just. got to wait around cuz you're going to. have some hits cuz a stop clock tells.

the right time twice a day, >> but you have to then just feather your. nest so that when you have the flops, it. is somebody else's fault and you you. don't lose. >> They have a strategy which is to be in. business with the. >> my companion. >> Yeah. they to be in business with the. best filmmakers and they obviously. Warner Brothers had a big issue which is. that they lost probably the most. reliable maker of commercial originals. In fact, definitely they lost. Christopher Nolan and they lost him in.

the pandemic because in 2021 when things. were coming back they said oh we're. going to release all our stuff on day. and date we're going to have it's going. to go onto a streaming service HBO Max. in this case and he was incredibly angry. and he's gone to Universal. I surely. believe that maybe they want one day him. to come back. But there are so few think. who are the who are the directors. working nowadays who make big commercial. originals which is what we always say we. want and actually I'm trying to think. who they okay Christopher Nolan.

obviously. >> Ryan Cougler although he's you know done. a lot of existing IP Greta Gwig although. you know Greta Gerwig Barbie is a movie. in the service of a toy company but it. was so original I suppose in lots of. ways it's people's template for like if. you are doing it then you're going to do. it that way she's doing Nania So. whatever um maybe Paul Thomas Anderson, but I'm not, you know, a bit iffy about. how well one battle after another will. do, which is the Leonardo data. So. that's that's the next one in Mike Duca. and Pam Abd's conveyor belt. And.

>> it doesn't matter as I said, you know, if it doesn't do as well, and it it's. possible it's not tracking brilliantly. and if it doesn't do as well as, you. know, when they took the big swing, are. you really not going to greenlight. movies with Leonardo DiCaprio and Paul. Thomas Anderson? All directors will make. a flop from now. And I'm not saying. that's going to be a flop. It may just. not do as well as you know they dreamt. it would. But I'm sure it'll be do okay. Um and you know who I'm trying to think. who else makes maybe Emerald for now, maybe Jordan Peele, but there are very.

few people working who make original. films and they're trying to be and. Warers are trying to be in business with. all of them apart from the unfortunate. business of Nolan who's gone elsewhere. >> Gone elsewhere. Yeah. cuz and we we we. spoke at the very beginning this idea of. nobody knows anything which which I. think William Goldman the great. screenwriter um he said and it's this. idea that you know hits come from. somewhere and flops come from somewhere. and no one knows he's not actually. saying nobody knows anything and that's. the point it has it has sort of come to. infect an industry in a way that say oh.

I mean the thing is I mean no one really. knows anything the truth is some people. do know some stuff and Mike Duca and Pam. Abdi do know some stuff and they. understand how to work with. screenwriters They understand how to. work with directors. They understand how. to give people creative freedom. And. they understand what to back and what. not to back. As you say, sometimes it. goes wrong, but they understand it. enough that they will have more hits. than flops, which is all you can ever. ask for because in this industry, there. are some people who really, really do. know what they're doing. Look at studio. Lambert in television and the string of. hits. They've had the traitors race. across the world. I mean, just some. people just.

>> do know what they're doing. And it's. it's not foolproof, which is where the. old failure along the way. Nobody knows. anything comes from but it can be done. and there is a there is a class of. people sitting at the top of some media. companies who take advantage of this. nobody knows anything to go yeah what. can you do this business I mean it's. it's a tricky one we tried our best with. these people no you employ good people. anytime we employed someone who wasn't. any good everyone they employed wasn't. any good either I agree with that but. also the state of the business that they.

that the level of anonymous briefing. presumably by rivals really at this. stage in Hollywood's decline and crisis. and whatever, everybody should be. wanting everybody's movies to succeed. Yeah. And the idea that you're going to. preemptively brief against someone for. movies that haven't yet come out, there's a huge amount of anonymous. briefing, but particularly connected. with this story. And of course, it's a. really [ __ ] place and people want to, but actually at this stage in the. decline, I would be really wary of just.

constantly slagging people off and. saying, "Oh, they're going to go. They're going to go." when the movies. haven't even come out yet, everyone. should be rooting for all the movies. >> Yeah. And this constant thing of how do. we save the movie industry? Great. movies. That's how you said it. How do. we have great movies? Trust great. people. Who are those great people? If. you don't know the answer to that, you. shouldn't be in charge of it. >> And stop saying we want to take risks. We want originals. We dream of all this. commercial stuff. And then when someone. does it saying, "Oh, well, they'll be. out by, you know, they'll be out by. summer.". >> So, they've had this incredible streak. So, I just wanted to we'll end with I've.

looked through what I think are the. greatest streaks in entertainment. history. like people who have just been. on such an absolute flyer for like years. at a time, not making a single mistake. And it's incredibly rare. You know, you. look at even like Madonna, people like. this where they have these string of. singles. This there's there's a duffer. somewhere in the middle. It's very very. rare to have something like this uh this. this run that Warner at the moment where. everything hits at the same time. Um Tom. Hanks 92 to 95. This is a hell of a run. League of Their Own, Sleepless This in.

Seattle, Philadelphia Oscar, Forest Gump. Oscar, Apollo 13, Toy Story. I mean, that's a guy who's choosing well. Again, some people some people do know what. they're doing. And again, sometimes he. chooses badly, but he chooses well more. often than he chooses badly. And that's. the thing you got to look for. >> Rob Reiner directing, Spinal Tap, Sure. Thing, Stand by Me, Princess Bride, When. Harry Met Sally, Misery, A Few Good Men, all in a row. And this is very very Bill.

Biddy Wilder did something similar. Biddy Wilder did uh Sunset Boulevard, Stag 17, Sabrina, The Seven-Year Itch, Some Like It Hot, The Apartment. Um. Katherine Hburn did bring up Baby Stage. Door, Philadelphia Story Woman of the. Year in a row. That's pretty good going. I mean, you got the Beatles and Stevie. Wonder who just never released anything. bad in their whole career. But I think. the greatest ever streak in. entertainment history. I've gone to. music and I've gone from 1977 to 1979. and I've gone with the BeeGees. The.

BeeGees 1977 to 1979 11 number one. singles. Uh they wrote for other artists. as well. They theme tune to Greece. That. was a number one in America. 11 number. on's in 1978. from March to July. There were five. number one singles in a row that were. all BG related. They replaced themselves. four times. And by the way, after this, all they did was uh chain reaction for. Diana Ross, Heartbreak of Adon Warick,

and Islands in the Stream for Dolly. Parton, Kenny Rogers. That's got to be. the greatest streak in the history of. entertainment. If listeners never had a. better one. >> Yeah. >> Well, I think I have to say that I think. Marvel 2008 to 2019, there's never been. there's nothing like it. Pixar. Pixar. the first all the way up to Toy Story 3. >> but but it's not as long and it's not as. many films and it's I think. >> but the basic principle is in this. industry and lots of people uh will will. recognize it. Some people do actually.

know what they're doing. They actually. do and they often have bosses who don't. know what they're doing. And if you're. the boss of that boss then maybe have a. little think occasionally if everything. is being filtered through that boss. Have an actual think about what's going. on and have an actual think about who. can come at your office with a blank. piece of paper and make you some money. And don't fire Mike Duca and Pam Abdi. because you don't know what you're doing. because they do. >> I very much enjoyed that. Any. recommendations, Richard?

>> Uh, yes. We talked last week about there. being um the the pority of younger male. writers. I thought, "Oh, great." Cuz I'd. read this great book. Then I looked him. up and he's 44, which but it's 10 years. younger than me, so he counts as a. younger male writer. Benjamin Wood, who. wrote a brilliant book um that I loved a. couple of years ago called A Station on. the Path to Somewhere Better, but his. new book Sea Scraper, which is nominated. for the Booker Prize, is terrific. I. absolutely loved it. And uh it's really. short. It's like 160 pages. And I I I I. think the era of the of the short book.

is upon us. But it's it's really it's. it's sort of in the 50s and it's a a guy. whose job is to go out with his horse. and cart and just get shrimp in from. this huge kind of mile long beach when. the sea is out and then a a Hollywood. mogul comes up looking for a location. for a movie and it's just it's very. unusual. I'm going to love it. Yes. Unusual things happen in but he's such a. brilliant writer. Benjamin Wood Sea. Scraper it's called but get it today. I. recommend um The Station on the Path to. Somewhere Better, but Sea Scraper is.

shorter if that's important to you. Uh. how about you? Do you see anything in. LA? >> I really want to see Demon Slayer, but I. haven't seen it yet. I'm going to see. it. Maybe I'll see it tonight. Um which. was what we talked about. Um which has. had an unbelievable opening. We talked. about anime quite recently and on this. podcast and said, "Oh, everyone's going. to have to get into it." Well, that has. been an unbelievably massive. >> And by the way, it is not K-pop Demon. Hunters. It is Demon Slayer. It is. different. It's a different thing. >> Yeah. and de and K-pop demon hunters is. in her anime, but yes, Demon Slayer, it. looks absolutely amazing. Um, actually,

one of my children saw it yesterday, so. it's terrific. And um, anyway, so that's. what I'm going to see later today. And. so we'll see how that goes. Anyway, we. will see you on Thursday as always for. our questions and answers episode. >> Shall we leave the last word to the. greatest actor of his generation? >> Oh, we're going to be finishing with. this so many weeks, let me tell you. Hi, it's Glenn Powell and you're. listening to the rest is entertainment. >> Thanks Glenn. Thanks Marina. >> Thank you Glenn.

[Applause].