Is Morrissey Becoming Noel Edmonds?

[Music]. Hello and welcome to this episode of the. resters entertainment with me Marina. Hive. >> and me Richard Osman. Hello everybody. Hello Marina. >> Hello Richard. How are you? >> I'm all right. I normally ask what sort. of week you've had but I'm not going to. ask you that this time. I'm going to ask. you a different question which is what. sort of week are you about to have. listeners take a take a little listen at. this. >> It's pretty low key. Pretty lowkey. Richard, I tomorrow will be boarding a. flight for the cursed city of Los.

Angeles. What could force you to go. there, Marina? >> You might say, >> I'm just going to go and talk to Glenn. Pal. >> Holy moly. I mean, friend of the podcast. doesn't do the doesn't do him justice. >> I don't think he knows he's a friend of. the podcast, and I'm not doing it. I'm. doing, by the way, I'm doing this for an. interview for the Guardian. Don't worry, when it comes out, you will have every. cough and spit. But that's what I'm. doing this week. By the way, if anyone. has any questions, we're not really. legally allowed to do it, but send them. into the wrestlers entertainment.com and. you never know. Marina might be able to.

slip one of those in. >> I might well do. Can you match it, Richard? Are you doing anything on that. scale of private task perhaps this week? >> Still waiting. I mean, it really depends. that um the the M&S in Chisik, as you. know, is being extended and they said it. was going to be reopening in September. So, is that going to happen this week? I. walked past it the other day. Doesn't. look like it is. >> Can they get it over the line? >> So, listen again. And if you've got any. questions for the the the team behind. the M&S extension in Chisik uh versus. entertainment.com. So either so it's. either Glenpal or or M&S.

>> Could you put it in the sub subject line. in case we muddle them up? >> Can I just say though and listen I I. know you'd never admit to this. The only. reason you're going is because of the. podcast and because of our love for Glen. Pow. I you got asked to interview all. sorts of people and I bet the second. this came in your inbox you thought, "Oh, okay. This I can do.". >> I have I haven't done an interview for. about 15 years. So, um, anyway, I'm very. excited to do this for the Guardian, and. we'll we'll let's just wait and see if. it lives up to every single one of my. enormous expectations. >> Well, we're doing it for the Guardian.

Sure. Sure. >> I am, Richard. That's where it's going. to appear. But, of course, we will we. will discuss it further when the time. comes. Now, what are we actually. discussing in greater detail this week? >> Morrisy has released a statement. Whenever someone releases a statement. from his once more, >> yes, he has. He goes, "There are so many. toys in this pram. anytime somebody. releases a statement on their own. website and we know that's an item for. us. He's released a statement. We'll. talk about what it is and we'll talk. about why all bands end up suing each. other. >> They're not the only ones suing each. other. >> There is there another band actually.

much bigger but much less newsworthy who. are also suing each other at the moment. which we'll get on to. We are also going. to talk about the paper, the new sitcom, which is you can see on Sky and now here. or in NBC in the estates, which is a. spin-off of The Office. And we're going. to talk about what that means. Also, I. think a little bit what things like this. get right and wrong about newspapers. >> Oh, that's fun cuz it's essentially the. biggest sitcom launch in I would say 5. years. Oh, yeah. A lot a lot hangs on. it, but yeah, I'd be interested to know. if it accurately reflects a newsroom. I. suspect it doesn't, but uh you know, I.

don't imagine that a paper office uh is. like The Office. So, uh and I enjoyed. that. We're also going to talk about Dan. Brown's new book is out this week. Um. first one in 8 years. All the big books. have started coming out now, all the. Christmas books. So, it's going to take. you through the runners and riders there. and uh talk you through uh why they're. released, when they are, and uh who who. might do the best. >> I'm dying for that. There's a lot of. muscular male fiction coming, Rich. >> Yes. in in an era where we're constantly. told that men don't write books anymore.

This list would uh would suggest. otherwise. For our many many younger. listeners or viewers, Morrisy, who was. the lead singer of the Smiths, he's from. Manchester. He sort of uh has a. reputation as a poet. He's certainly an. iconic class. He will always write about. quite dark issues, very interesting. issues. Write about things you wouldn't. necessarily normally hear in pop songs. Had a reputation for being miserable. when they came out just cuz the voice. has a certain tambber to it which um. suggests a miserableness. But uh the. Smiths and Morrisy himself had such a. hugely devoted fan base. Impossible to.

sort of overestimate quite how much. Smiths were loved by people who. >> reached into teenage bedrooms and hearts. and just spoke what was inside them. >> Yeah. And a creature that probably. couldn't exist in any other era than the. 80s. You know, Joy Division passed it on. to the Smiths. But uh the Smiths had. happened to have this genius guitarist. Johnny Mah who could write incredible. pop songs as well. So you had the the. tortured poet who with very very. interesting imagery, the incredibly. melodic guitarist and this band kind of. exploded out of nowhere. So at that. time, you know, he was a militant.

vegetarian, very happy to speak his mind. about everything, very happy to go on. the record and slag people off and just, you know, he spoke his mind long before. speaking one's mind was a red flag. >> Let's talk about bands. >> Let's talk about Morrisy, shall we? >> Morsy has put his business interests in. the Smiths up for sale. Yes, he's. actually headlined it a soul for sale. >> Yeah, >> a soul for sale. Moresy soul. >> Okay. These comprise, according to. Moresy, the name the Smiths as created. by Moresy. >> Oh, by the way, these are Moresy's. words, not yours.

>> Yes. Oh, yeah. >> And every time you say as created by. Morrisy, Morrisy himself has has written. this. >> Type that onto his website himself. >> All Smith's artwork as created by. Morrisy. >> He's every time he's doing it, you. think, is it RS? He probably finds it. easier than I do. >> Yeah, he's got a keyboard shortcut for. it now, I think. All Smith's. merchandising rights, all Smith's songs. lyrically and musically, all. synchronization rights, all Smith's. recordings, and all contractual rights. for Smith's publishing. >> The reason he's doing it, he says, "I am. burnt out by any and all connections to.

Mah Rock Joyce, his three Urso. bandmates, >> one of whom is deceased." And Rock is. deceased. >> Yeah. And interestingly, one of whom, Mike Joyce, is just about to release a. book, but entirely coincidental. Yeah. He says, "I have had enough of malicious. associations. With my entire life, I. have paid my rightful dues to these. songs and these images. I would now like. to live dissociated from those who wish. me nothing but ill will and destruction. And this is the only resolution. The. songs are me. They are no one else. It's. like this podcast, isn't it? It's all.

Marina. But they bring with them. business communications that go to. excessive length to create as much dread. and spite year after year. I must now. protect myself, especially my health. Any serious investors should make. contact. eaves7760@gmail.com. and I read out that email address. because if you send something to it, which I've done, it just bounces back. It's not uh doesn't appear to it doesn't. appear to work. >> Okay. There's a lot to unpack. Lots of. toys to unpack or pick off the. >> bag to put back into the. >> PR. The bit that seems to be really. getting to him is that they bring with.

them business communications. I mean, the admin of artistry does make me laugh. a lot. I mean, it's really interesting. actually. A lot a lot of people much. further down the tree who's never had. anything approaching the success the. Smiths have had say you know you. obviously you're in a band because you. love making music and you love. performing and you love all of those. things but just a huge amount is spent. getting from A to B you know booking. venues dealing with the admin just. dealing with the admin. >> have we paid VAT on our German royalties. >> yeah and there's a huge amount of admin.

and it reminds me of various things it. reminds me of things like we've talked. about before that even if you're a. really big- time actor a tiny amount of. your schedule of the pie chart really. could be you in front of a camera. actually all of the rest of it in case. of Mark Wber as we frequently say is. praying having a lot of showers. >> turning down selfies. >> it's a huge amount and actually the. thing that you're in it for is just a. tiny amount of the day I think even if. you're in just a small band that kind of.

has a has a few gigs people say oh it's. eight hours a week they did actually a. study of up and cominging Dutch. musicians yeah know it's. Okay. >> And that. >> he's doing he's getting paid for that. >> I don't know. But it's quite a fun thing. to do to talk to them. >> Was it was it was it. >> was it was it funded by Dutch musicians. moms? >> I I don't know. I think Dutch musicians. moms maybe at that stage are probably. helping them out with the admin driving. them. >> By the way, great name for a band. >> Dutch musicians moms. And they found. that like quite a large percentage of. the week was spent on that. And.

obviously most people as we discussed. last week have other jobs. Um, Morrisy. has one job which is being Morrisy at. all times. So. >> that's a fulltime job. >> By the way, that's more than that needs. 150% of anyone else, but the admin of it. all seems to really get to him. >> I think what you're hitting up on there. is exactly right, which is when you. start a band, I mean, I started with the. question, why do bands all end up suing. each other? And most bands form in the. sort of teens and 20s, and it's usually. quite a random collection of. individuals. There's absolutely no.

reason why it is Mah, Morrisy, Rock, and. Joyce. It could have been any number. And when you look into the history of. all of these bands, you know, there's. various people who sort of drifted in. and out. So, it's quite a random. collection of people you're with and. you're with them in the Smith case and. in the case of the Sal band we're going. to talk about 5 years tops, something. like that. And almost all your time is. spent writing songs, being fated for. those songs, touring those songs, people. going absolutely crazy about those. songs. >> Also, some arguing in the pie chart. >> Of course. Of course. And and towards. the end, more and more arguing. As you. get more and more successful and the pie. gets bigger and bigger, more arguments.

about who gets what chunk of that pie. When you split up, of course, and when. you know the phone stops ringing quite. so much, your spirit is still exactly. the same. Your love for what you do is. exactly the same. Your love for your art. is the same. The feelings that you have. and of the fandom remain the same, but. there is less and less and less to do. You know, you are not going into the. studio every day with your mates. You. know, you're doing solo albums or, you. know, solo tours that are slightly. smaller. You're doing all those things. And so suddenly that idea of your legacy.

starts to um rear its head. And if you. are the Smiths, there's lots of money. there as well and you know reunion tours. and things like that. But that's when. you get to the point of but these are. three random guys I met in my 20ies. You. know if you think back listeners to just. a random group of people that you used. to hang out with in your 20ies and. imagine now you've got a 100 million to. spread out between you and it's it all. comes down to which of you is the most. talented. You know, that's a that's a. heady brew. It's not like these are the. three musketeers and they'll they'll.

never be split. All bands by and large. are made up of incredibly desperate. individuals. And the adrenaline of being. in a gang when you're in your 20s is so. enormous and the the fan fair and all of. those things is so enormous. But when. you're in your 40s and you know you've. got a you just bought a home in LA and. you got a home in Tuscany and you've got. still got a house in Manchester and you. actually need a bit more money or maybe. you were the drummer and you're not. getting as much money as the others. that starts to focus the mind into oh. actually see it was fun and I do love. the art but there was a lot of money and.

I don't appear to have an awful lot of. it and the singer he does appear to have. an awful lot of it so Smith years ago. Mike Joyce and Andy Rock sued uh. Morrisymar for um a bigger share of. songwriting duties and and Mike Mike. Joyce got a payout. Andy Rock, who's. sadly no longer with us, took an £80,000. payoff because I I think he was. desperate for for the money at the time. Mike Joyce um held out a bit longer and. got a bit more money. >> But this happens to so many bands. As I.

say, Mike Joyce has got his book about. to come out. It's called The Drums. >> and that will be brilliant. Everyone you. talk to about Mike Joyce says he's just. the nicest man in the business. Just a. just an absolutely rock solid guy. >> Unrelated news. Unrelated news. unrelated news. is now is now is now in the headlines. Yeah. >> Is this current news also unrelated to. the fact that Morrisy suggested doing a. reunion tour. >> and Johnny Mah didn't want to do it. He. didn't feel the vibe was right which. puts it quite mildly. I think. >> Johnny Mah who again any everyone you.

talk to cuz I you sometimes think with. this thing you think oh everyone's anti. Morrisy everyone's prom so but but is is. that true? So I tried to speak to lots. of people who've been in their orbit and. Mah comes up with a pretty clean bill of. health as well. people love him and yeah. he absolutely turned down the tour which. would have been a lot of money because. he he would have felt. >> it would have been a huge amount of. money. The other thing which relates. back to something we have often said. particularly last week is that the money. now comes from touring. Yeah. >> And so you have to actually be back in. the same place together. I mean, you.

have to say that Spinal Tap, the new. Spinal Tap reunion thing is is so in the. wheelhouse of contempo culture because. they are all I mean, in the old days you. say, "What band that old would have gone. out on the road?" Of course they. wouldn't because they're like, "Oh, all. of them. They will all do this unless. they literally want to kill each other.". >> I mean, the money that Oasis are making. is, and very few bands can make that. money, by the way, and the Smiths. wouldn't make that money. Oasis have a. particular place in the heart of our. culture and even in America that they're. able to do that. But the Smiths would be. making a lot certainly more than Morrisy.

and have now. So Morrisy I think weirdly. historian reminds me of when we were. talking about null Edmonds which is. Morris is unable to let go what he was. in the 80s and how he was seen in the. 80s and he was seen as countercultural. He was seen as incredibly intelligent. He was seen as, you know, somehow. kicking, you know, swimming against the. tides and doing so in an incredibly. artistic way. That was that was that's. the that's the legend of Morrisy. And.

that is not how he's seen anymore. And. he continues to swim against the tide, but you know, he's flirted with the far. right and and and things like that. >> He might be surfing the tide now. >> He is. He's he's. >> hard to know what he's doing. >> He's certainly doing something. So he. recorded an album in in 2021. Morrisy. and it's called Bonfire of Teenagers. Yeah. >> And it's about the Manchester Arena. bombing. That's the the lead track was. about the Manchester Arena bombing and. nobody will release it. So no one will.

release this album. When when he talks. about it, you do think there's a touch. of the Edmunds about it. He was dropped. by his label um BMG because he said he. blamed that split on the label's new. plans for diversity. That's what he said. about that. Uh he said he's taken this. new album to every major label in. London. Now every major label in London. has refused this album quotes while also. admitting that it is a masterpiece. And listen, I get it. Uh he's also he's. called the record the best album of my.

life. And he says the madly insane. efforts to silence the album are somehow. indications of its power. Otherwise, who. would bother to get so overheated about. an inconspicuous recluse? So that's what. he's saying about this. >> You can't he's had it every way in that. particular in just in those three. sentences. >> He has more unbelievably on one of the. songs I am Veronica the backing vocals. were done by Miley Cyrus cuz she was a. huge Morrisy and Smith's fan. So she did. that. She then asked for her vocals to. be taken off and again you know he said.

Morrisy said retroactively make vocals. off the record. >> apparently. I think I think if you're. but for that Morrisy blamed the legacy. press. So, the Legacy Press had. something to say. But, so listen, we've. heard that playbook played many, many, many times before. But the reason he. really reminds me of Nor Edmonds is if. you listen to the songs from this album, if you listen to Bonfire of Teenagers, it's one of his best, one of the best. things he's done in his career. Genuinely, I mean, wherever it comes. from, it is a great song. And anything. that's on that album that is publicly.

available, it's absolute prime vintage. Moresy. If you don't like Prime Vintage. Morrisy, you won't like it. If you do. like Prime Vintage Morrisy, this is. music that is absolutely up there with. anything else that he's ever done. Interesting, intriguing. Agree or. disagree, musically, it's absolutely a. Morrisy album. And it is interesting. that nobody will release it. I do find. that interesting that no one will. release it. And I'm aware that he comes. across as an old man shouting at clouds. and I'm sure there is a part of that.

But also he is a guy just going to the. studio doing what he's always done and. making this stuff and suddenly he he's. in a world where nobody wants to. >> Well, do you think he might be in a. different world now? Because as we've. said there has been a sort of cultural. sea change or the sort of end of what. feels like a sort of cultural decade a. direction is Morrisy now not more likely. to get a hearing? Certainly there there. there is a fandom out there for him and. if he wanted to um it's perfectly uh.

possible to you know self-release these. things and there's there's money in that. but I think what Morrisy wants is to be. significant. I think that's what he. wants and because he was significant and. I think that there's a certain type of. personality that if they feel they're. not being as heard by as many people as. they used to, they don't go oh okay. that's the way life is. Instead they. shout louder because oh I must not be. shouting loud enough because it used to. be like everybody listened and now. almost nobody is listening to me and. this is an example of that this thing. that he released the soul for sale that. is him shouting as loudly as he possibly.

can and now he you know has got a. reaction and people are going oh yeah. Morrisy yeah I remember Morrisy he is in. a very interesting that just that null. Edmonds thing because both sort of. children of the 80s both children of a. of a monoculture you know the Smiths. >> I can't believe this is the first time. I've heard them yolked together. I. really can't. Richard. >> Edmonds and Morrisy. >> Yeah, this is my favorite take. >> But but. >> yeah, >> you know what I mean? You know what I. mean? I' I love it. >> They are beasts from a different jungle. and now they look around them and go, I.

well, I don't understand this. I kind of. get the kind of primal yell of the. thing. But as I say, everyone I speak. to, if you talk to them about Mah or. Mike Joyce or or the late Andy Rock, have nothing but good things to say. about them. And there would have been a. lot of money for a reunion tour and they. would have had their reasons for not. doing that tour which we can imagine one. way or another. Johnny Mars influencer a. million guitarists that's for sure. But. whether whether the Smiths have that. place in pop culture, I don't know. But. abandoned are much much bigger with the. police.

>> I hate the police. >> Wow. Let's let's cut that out out of. context. >> No. >> Would you. defund the police? I hate the police. >> You hate the police? >> Yeah, I do. I think they're really like. emotionally hollow and just it's very. polished and I think that you know it's. not it's not insignificant that the most. emotionally deep song really is all. about power and control every breath you. take. >> Yeah, I believe we're going to be. talking about it today. >> Well, yes, that's because that's also.

what the lawsuit is to do with. So Sting. takes a larger proportion of the. royalties for police songs, but you got. Stuart Copeland who's the drummer and. you got Andy Summers who is the. guitarist. And they are now suing Sting. >> 42 years after every move you take, they. have. >> 42 years. It seems longer. >> It see they have opened up The Wound. again. Sting sold his back catalog um. for 300 million by Sony. There's there's. a lot of money. >> Andy Summers is is is older than the. others. And Andy Summers said, "I did.

the guitar riff. That's one of the. reasons this is one of the biggest. selling songs of all time. >> I agree with him. It I agreed with him. that the guitar riff because he brought. >> because this this this I believe is is. now the court of law for such things. >> Sting wanted to do it on a sort of. hamburg or something and they were like. no we're a guitar band and without that. without the guitar I mean I think it is. quite different. He also wanted to do. the drums with a drum machine. >> Can I just say this? >> What a sting though. It came off. synchronicity this and they are really.

in the the the final you know his god. complex by this stage. >> but it's their last album. Yeah as a. band it's their last album as a band as. you say that everybody falls out in the. end or sooner rather than later. So. again, let's see how the police formed. And this is not three people he met at. school and were, you know, lifelong. friends and all this. The police form in. the '7s in London, just where sort of. Prague rock was on its way out and punk. was on its way in and Sting was in like. a jazz fusion band called Last Exit. He. saw Stuart Copeland playing drums in the.

progr band Curved Air in Newcastle and. gave him his number and they hooked up. when he went down to London. And then. they were both asked to join um a band. by an ex-member of Gong called Strontium. 90. And the guitarist in Strontium 90. was Andy Summers. So they thought, well, let's get Andy Summers in. And he, by. the way, is in his 30s. He's much older. than the others. But essentially, they're kind of three jazz fusion prog. rock musicians, all of whom are quite. interested in punk. And funny enough, when they when they turn up, >> these two of whom have a god complex,

>> and when when they turn up in the public. consciousness, it's with that bleach. blonde hair, that short bleach blonde. hair, and sort of punk look. And that is. entirely due to a Wrigley's commercial, a chewing gum commercial that Tony Scott. was directing. And they he needed. someone to play a punk band. So they cut. their hair short, dyed their hair, and. it never aired this advert, but. somewhere there's the three of them with. a six-foot pack of Wrigley chewing gum. being carried around. >> styled by Tony Scott. >> Styled by Tony Scott. So that was the. police. So they are three people from. very different places uh who got.

together and I think genuinely because. Sting is an unbelievably great. songwriter became the biggest band in. the world. By 1993 Rolling Stone is. saying this is the biggest band in the. world. So it's all well and good being. the Smiths. This is the biggest band. uh. even they they did one ill- fated. reunion tour in 2007208 and in 2009. >> they have played together on they've got. together for nights and various things. like that benefits no doubt. >> there is a bit about them that makes you. think they haven't fallen out with each.

other I think Sting slightly regretted. the reunion tour he certainly said that. he had but they were the highest earning. musicians in the world in 2008 and that. was the highest grossing tour of all. time when they reformed and and. >> yeah he'll still do your oligarch's. wedding for a million dollars stink just. in case He's he yet to answer the. question how how much money is enough? >> Well, I guess we'll find out in the high. court fairly soon. So, uh yeah, and Andy. Summers and Stu Copeland are after this. money. Now, Stuart Copeland is someone. you would not want to be sued by. I This. is why I would never say I hate the. police. You know who you know who his.

dad is? >> No. Tell me. >> You don't know who Stuart Copeland's dad. is? >> Wow. Okay, you're about to regret saying. you hate the police. His dad is Miles. Copeland, who was a very, very, very. senior member of the CIA. He was one of. America's top spies. >> I did I do remember reading his Yeah. >> anything about, you know, Philby and the. Cambridge spies and all that. Miles. Copeland is always somewhere in the. background in the Middle East in. Lebanon. But also his mom was a spy, uh, a Scottish woman. She was also a spy. So. he comes from a family of spies. Stuart.

Copeland. Uh, and is a is a is a tough. nut. That's for sure. So he's taking. Sting to call. That's why if I was. Sting, I'd just pay up immediately. He's. got his brother. >> I'm so glad you're not Sting. >> Yeah. be doing this podcast. Don't be. put it that way. >> His brother who was who is another Mars. Copeland managed the police went on to. manage Sting for many years as well. So. there is you know this is a band that. there shouldn't be all that much. acrimony. Um but they're they're. >> they found him so controlling that it. was beyond. >> well he said again he you you team up. with people in your 20ies you you're all.

musicians and you all have different. musicianships but if you're a creative. and you're in a room with three people. all of whom want to be doing their own. thing and it isn't the thing that you. want to do there comes a point where you. go I have to I just have to be me I have. to go and do what it is that I want to. do. So actually if you are controlling. then the only thing to do is become. sting you know and leave the band which. which is which which. >> he certainly has become sting hasn't he. has but yeah it's all really about every. breath you take almost all of it is. about which it's interesting that it.

almost telescopes onto one song. >> and which is one of the very few you. know we talked about touring being the. only place to make money every breath. you take is one of the few songs you can. still make money out of is one of the. sort of 10 biggest radio played songs in. the history of the world and and of. course the with the sample in um you. know the the PD song as well. >> It was in um when when Phyllis gets. married in the US office. It's played at. her wedding by Kevin's band which is. called Scrantonicity. >> Oh yeah.

>> So they're in the high court at the. moment. Oh. >> today's first mention of Dunder Mifflin. by the way. >> Stuart Copeland's uh other brother Andy. Copeland was um also worked in the music. business but I think might be the only. person in history this is a sidebar. This is the ultimate cyber. Might be the. only person in music history ever to. have dated both Marian Faithful and. Courtney Cox. >> Oh, >> that's a intergenerational. >> That's a van diagram achievement, isn't. it? Just. >> Yeah. >> Um, so Morrisy is clearly uh trying to.

divert attention from this Mike Joyce. book, which will be brilliant to the. drums. I mean, even if it doesn't settle. scores, which I don't think it will, knowing how mild mannered he is, but I. think it will be an incredibly. interesting read. I think so. Um the. police are in the high court as well. But so many bands end up in court. because when they are young they have. the energy and the adrenaline that. they're with people who you know in an. ordinary bit of life they'd move offices. and they wouldn't be friends with in 10. years time but they are they are yolked. together forever creatively and they.

have people who talk to them about the. other person forever creatively. Meanwhile, there is a huge pot of money. somewhere which could be somehow sliced. up between all of them. There will. always be someone coming along saying. you know they got a bit too much there. you know, they got a little bit too. much. And so I think that's why all. bands end up um end up suing each other. >> If you don't sue your manager, it's much. better to have it siphoned away into. suing the manager. And you know, like. the Rolling Stones have just got that. litany of managers who rip them off. about 65p. But you know, there's certain. there's certain people in bands who will.

always be more of the record peke. keeping persuasion and Jagger is. definitely like that. >> And McCartney when people say, "Oh, you. sued the Beatles and he was trying to. get rid of Alan Klein." Exactly. Who was. the manager? And that, you know, that. that all seemed to end well for. everyone. >> Journey, the don't stop believing band, they they um. >> they went to court because one of them. wouldn't let the other one use the. banned credit card. All the notes have. been in uh and there's only two of them. and they've been in uh in court cases. forever, you know, and again, because in. our popular imagination, those two are.

like best friends. And yeah, they're. just two guys who met each other and. now, you know, they got half a billion. pounds to share out between them. And. so, what else are you going to do? No. one really wants you to go back in the. studio, so you might as well go into the. courtroom. It made me think I I was. fortunate I went to go see Coldplay and. um I want to write a pamphlet called In. Defense of Coldplay, cuz I think they're. uh. >> I think your pampleteing ears are You're. just coming into them. >> Well, he even Chris Martin at the end. just said, "Well done for tolerating two.

hours of Coldplay." I think that's a. real achievement. >> And that's that's him at Wembley, you. think. But uh again, you talk to people. about Coldplay and nobody has a bad word. to say about them. They say everyone who. works for them has wor with them. forever. They pay their crew properly. There have been charities that have been. in trouble that have been bailed out by. Coldplay and told do not say a word. about this. Everyone, you know, you go. see I mean there's an awful lot of we. all love each other and all this at the. gig. My my favorite line in We Solve. Murders is actually quite negative about.

Coldplay, >> which I feel bad about, >> which made me laugh, which made me laugh. so much when I read it. >> Yeah, there's a there's there's a. gangster in St. Lucia who's wearing a a. Coldplay t-shirt and when someone's. asked about shooting him, he said that. well the Coldplay t-shirt made it. easier. Uh so Chris Martin, if you're. listening, uh that was I just it was. listen, you know, it's a useful joke and. it's all it's it's all money. Um, but. yeah, that's a band who I think have. been equidable about where the money. goes for a very long time and seem to. actually like each other and look after. each other and but it's very very very.

rare that you see that. So, watch this. space for more Moresy and the police. developments. >> Right. Well, after the break, we're. going to talk about some thrusting quite. old guys who've got some very very big. books out of Christmas and we're going. to talk about the the future of a. sitcom. [Music]. This episode is brought to you by Sky, home of Atomic, the new Sky original. series. >> Max, a free-spirited drug smuggler, is. forced into an unlikely partnership with. JJ, an enigmatic fugitive seemingly.

allergic to eye contact. >> They're involuntarily trafficking. life-threatening uranium. If it ends up. in the wrong hands, the fallout will be. nuclear. They're being tracked by covert. operatives led by Cassie, a highly. skilled scientist and undercover CIA. officer who will do everything in her. power to stop a potential Armageddon. Thanks, Cassie. Conspiracies, car. chases, and morally gray zones. Atomic. stars Alfie Allen, Shazad Latif, and. Samira Wy. >> is high stakes, offbeat, and somehow. still full of heart like Thurman Louise. if they were carrying uranium. And. everyone has sand in their eyes.

>> Watch Atomic. Brand new episodes every. Thursday on Sky requires Sky TV. subscription. >> Welcome back everybody. Marina, the. paper has just come out. It is a semi-. spin-off of The Office, which means. everyone's got incredibly excited about. it. Greg Daniels, who's the guy who. adapted The Office for American TV. I'm. not going to say very very big team of. people. He's behind this as well. There. are well certainly. >> along with Michael Coleman who's behind.

Nathan for you, one of the co the. co-creators of Nathan for you. >> It is it has one of the stars of The. Office in it. There are other slight. connections which we won't say if people. have not seen it yet, but because this. is seen as the first real spin-off from. The Office. There's been a huge bet on. this show to be the the thing that. really revitalizes sitcom in the states. >> Yeah. It's made by um NBC as as The. Office was um obviously and you can see. it here on Sky or now. Um and it's set. in a we can do the talk about the. premise of it because it's it came out.

last week. It came out on um Friday I. think in the UK. Um, and it's set in. Toledo, Ohio. And it's set in the. offices of the Toledo Truth Teller now, >> which is a newspaper. >> Which is a newspaper. >> And they do call newspapers things like. that in America. There's like the. Cleveland plane dealer and stuff like. that. >> They've got some great names. Anyway, this newspaper is owned by Innovate, a. conglomerate that previously bought. Dunder Mifflin, but they they have other. types of paper. They obviously have. that, and they also um h make uh L.

paper. That's their big that's their. much bigger seller. Um, and it's got. great, it's got a very good cast. It's. got Donald Gleason, Sabrina Pachtori, who you might remember as the. receptionist in um, Lotus or the. manager, sorry, the hotel manager in um, >> White Lotus the season 2. He's got our. own Tim Key in it. >> Scott Benola, who's brilliant in Black. Ops, so people love watching Black Ops. So, it's got there's a big British. connection to this as well, which is why. I think it's it's a it's a particularly. exciting one for us. >> It's interesting. It definitely says a. lot about newspapers. Um but it also.

says a lot about comedy. It is so hard. to get new comedies off the ground now. I mean it's that you know that in many. ways what they've tried to do as every. single person does in with film with. anything now is to do things off. existing IP to say to sort of it's in. the the office extended universe. >> It's the D Mifflin universe. >> The Yeah. Yeah. And it almost feels now. that it's so hard to get a new comedy.

off the ground. And. >> well, the biggest new sketch show in. Britain is the Mitchell and Web one on. Channel 4. And by the way, I'm delighted. they're back. But that that that's the. you know, how else are you getting. anything off the ground on terrestrial. television if people don't know it. already? >> Yes, Greg Daniels is sort of in. interested in these institutionals. stories in lots of ways. And obviously. there was had the office but parks and. recreation which was sort of about. government and big and small government. That's the other thing I noticed cuz I. was interested slightly in sort of oh I.

remember what it was like when I first. saw the office and I remember what it. was like when I first saw the US office. which by the way a lot of people were. kind of snarky about at the start and. didn't think it was good as our one. It. became it it became completely its own. thing and it's it is absolutely amazing. and it's a huge part of the fabric of. America. >> I always I always say to people if you. want to watch the US office start the. first episodes of season 2. >> Yeah. >> Same with Brooklyn 999. Funny enough. If. you start with episode one season two. you you you will never see a bad. episode. >> You will. Yes. There are a lot of laugh. lines in those first episodes of those.

shows. And I think it says something. about what has slightly happened to. comedy in that a lot of comedy now is. what I would call comedy drama. Um and. although there are obvious laugh lines. in this, it's even though and it's come. from the same team and there and they've. got some of the same things where some. of the performers are also in the writer. room in the same way in the original. office. BJ Novak, Mindy Kaling, those. sort of people were in there. I actually. think Toby Toby from HR's in the variet. room of this one. >> Oh, is he? Yeah. >> Yeah. I also it's funny when you he's. literally just a writer and whenever.

he's in the background of any scene he's. a very good actor though. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's Anyway, so I I found it sort of. interesting. >> the the prize of a big hit sitcom is so. enormous now if you look at any of the. streaming data. So the just the shows. that are making money forever you know. the offices up there parks and wrecks. Family Guy just these things that are. now going to be watched in perpetuity. forever and ever and ever. And if you. can be one of the few people who can. sneak another new one under the wire so. that in 1015 years time you are watched. forever and ever and ever. That's the.

real prize here. There's a huge prize. and. >> that's what they want cuz they green on. the day before the series dropped they. green lit it for a season two and they. obviously want to kind of prove that. that old style I suppose network. >> and I love that also that like by the. way they hadn't immediately decided to. do two series they're going do you know. what just the day before I'm not sure. I'm absolutely not sure. Do you know. what? Maybe we should do it. Well, you. know what? It's the day before. Why. don't we just wait one day and see what. people say? No. Do you know what? I'm so. confident. But oh, you could have done. that 6 months ago. You had the tapes for.

ages. No, I I've really been thinking. about it. And actually, well, I tell you. what, either just go one day. No, I'm. not going to wait one day. I'm I'm. recommissioning. So is in terms of like. how it actually reflects a newspaper. office. I would I mean there's a lot of. things set in newspaper offices and. newspaper offices used to be places of. significant numbers of staff and glamour. and you know. >> Yeah. What what was it like sort of in. in the absolute heyday if you if you. walk through the office of one of the. big tabloids? What's what's the. atmosphere like? >> Oh my god. I remember that my first day.

when I went to the the sun, but I was. like going from a temping agency to work. on the um showbiz desk and I got to the. door and I didn't realize you obviously. I didn't have like a security pass or. anything cuz I was just temp and and. they had this massive sign above it that. said walk tall you are entering sun. country. and then this guy said to me can't you. get in don't worry lucky me lucky you. you met me and I was like I wonder who. that is anyway that was the editor. Stuart Higgins. Uh anyhow,

>> Steuart Hurricane Higgins, >> Higgins, the human sponge, as Calvin. McKenzie used to call him. Anyway, um. and it was yeah, there's a sense of like. total we're the best in the business. We. do everything right. It was it was. really it was really cultish, I thought, but you know, what can you say? >> But but a machine that was making an. awful lot of money and had a lot of. eyeballs on it. >> Yes. But I think it was tipping over. then and they were worried about the. male coming up behind them at the time. and obviously they were eventually. overtaken by the male. So that was sort. of interesting. It's still the the place. to be in terms of if you want. advertising revenue. It it was still.

they were still the masters of the. universe at that point. The Yes. The the. newspapers. >> Yes, they were. And but this is a sort. of different thing this show because. it's it's set in local news and that. idea of local news which has been is so. important. It's been so completely. hollowed out. >> Um and it couldn't be like a more. important thing and we sort of know it. but we don't do anything about it. And. there are all sorts of trying. initiatives to try and do something. about it. that that that era of like. spinning newspapers in in movies where. it meant like oh this is the most. important thing. >> Yes, there is there used to be a sitcom.

trope which is a spinning newspaper. Now. there's a sitcom trope which is 14. seconds after someone says something. people come in and going oh my god. you're trending on Twitter all the god. that was quick. >> Yeah. >> I mean it's usually they update it once. an hour they usually still whoever you. know Alexander EAC but the thing you. just said is now trending. >> It's Yes. It's interesting. I do think. that this decay has been happening a lot. longer than we I remember I had a great. friend who eventually came to the. Guardian who was um older than me who. was a guy called Albert Scardino. Now he. and his wife Marie Scardino had a little. local newspaper. This is what this sort.

of slightly reminded me of. They had a. little local newspaper um in Georgia. called the Georgia Gazette and I think. it never sold more than 4,000 copies. They had a I remember him saying we we. had a story once about the mayor and we. thought oh it's a bit it's a bit on his. private life. Maybe this isn't quite. right. Don't worry if he's made this. mistake he'll make another. So they left. it and then of course anyway eventually. they win a puliter for exposing local. corruption blah blah. >> Marjorie Scardina goes on she becomes. the only woman running a footy 100. company but even that had to shut. >> that shot in like 84 because they just.

you know you can't get enough eyeballs. and it's very very difficult in this. world. I think it is a good place for a. sitcom, but I'm not sure. It's It's. funny. People don't seem to care about. journalism in that way in local. journalism, even though they know they. should. >> That journalists are not sympathetic. figures. >> Yeah, I know. I wonder how that. happened. God, >> that's so odd. >> I mean, journalists are played a lot and. there's something coming up and the hack. which is coming up, which is the same. team as Mr. Bates versus the post office. and David Tennant's going to be Nick. Davis, the Guardian journalist who.

exposed phone hacking. That's written by. Jack Thorne. I mean, that's going to be. big and splashy. >> By the way, more even more. Listen, I'm. very excited that uh David Tenant is in. it. I'm more excited that the person. playing Robert Murdoch is Steve Peton. from Inside Number Nine. >> Come on. >> And I've just seen the the pictures of. him and obviously they've aged him up. quite a lot, but he looks amazing. >> It's an interesting place to set to set. a show, but it's really interesting to. try and get a mega kind of network. comedy off the ground nowadays. And I I.

we'll have to watch to see how that. happens because they've put so much into. this. The Office is the sort of show. that people watch in their delivery. rooms and do and watch around the, you. know, >> we're re-watching the whole thing at the. moment. >> It's so good. >> Yeah. And Oscar from The Office is in. this is in this. There is one little uh. who Ingred once did an escape room with. in LA. She didn't. >> He's lovely, apparently. And good at. escape rooms. >> Oh, this is great to know. >> Yeah. Uh, but I think if you're a fan of. the American Office at all, definitely. give this a watch. And as I say, it's so. lovely to have that British connection.

in there as well. So, we we all wish it. incredibly. Listen, there's people out. there who make billions out of it. It. does well, but we'll all we'll all do. well out of it if there if there's a. great new sitcom on the block. >> Absolutely. Books, Richard. Now, we're. moving into a very busy swashbuckling. season, correct? >> Yes. More than usual, in fact. So, this. is roughly the time when the big. Christmas books come out because you get. your first Russia sales in September and. then as Christmas gets nearer, you sell. more and more. So, these the big beasts. all come out in September. And this. year, well, let's not we we we needn't.

worry about that. I'm going to talk. about everyone else. All these books are. uh are about to come out. I think it's. the most packed autumn there's been for. many many years. The key thing to do. with talked before is everyone avoids. each other. So everyone brings their. books out on different days. So last. week uh Robert Galra's book came out, the hallmarked man. That's the um JK. Rowling um pseudonym with the Corman. Strike novel. So that is out. It's. another 900page behemoth. So that'll be. number one. But this week, in fact, today, the new Dan Brown is coming out, The Secret of Secrets, the sixth book in.

the uh the Robert Langdon series. So, the you know what we know as the Da. Vinci Code series. It's been 8 years. since his last one. So, there was an. awful lot of hoopla around this book. It. will sell very very well, particularly. in the States. I I would I would love. Listen, you you must choose weapons. advisedly, but I I would love to beat. him. That would be nice, wouldn't it? But uh but he's listen he's I actually. I'm quite a big fan of Dan Brown. I. don't I I don't know why but I I enjoy. reading the books. But the secret of. secrets um is coming out. Uh this one's.

about to consciousness and the scientist. uh disappears and a manuscript is lost, but it could change the way we think. about the brain forever. >> Does it contain a hot age gap in. appropriate relationship or do you not? >> Well, I think Robert Langdon is 8 years. older than he was last time. But I. >> Great. Well, then that could be even. bigger the gap. >> Yeah. But I I think this missing. professor, who is a woman, uh I I I. suspect she hasn't been aged 8 years, but we'll find out, I guess. He says, "It's by far the most intricately. plotted and ambitious of my books yet,

and dare I say the most fun.". >> Oh, okay. >> So, that's got to come out around the. world today and particularly in the. States. That's going to be huge. But we. we've we've talked a lot. There's. something in the air about um you know, men are not allowed to write books. anymore. And you know and fiction is is. a female dominated industry much more. than any of the other arts and that. seems to infuriate people because you. know I mean let women have one of them. So you know the biggest sellers we say. Sarah J Mask, Rebecca Yaros, Khen Hoover. these these are the the big selling.

books but this uh autumn pretty much all. the big books are men. And so we got. well we had JK R we got Dan Brown. Uh. Mick Herren has his new Snow House book. out on the 11th that's called Clown Town. and is uh as good as all his others and. by which I mean I love his others as. well. Yeah he is uh he's absolutely. brilliant and I'm doing an event with. him funny enough quite soon where we're. both talking about our new books. Then. Ken Flet is back. Ken Flet is another. one of those kind of big beasts. >> He's got his Stonehenge. >> of male literature. Circle of days. >> Circle of that's about the building of.

Stonehenge, right? >> Yeah exactly. He's done a lot of. research. No, but his books are always, you know, they're the kind of things. they can they'll keep you going for. weeks and weeks and weeks. But again, around the world, Archer, he's there as. well. He's got a new one out. >> Um, so Flet, Archer, Brown, Heron, Philip Pullman. >> has uh the Rosefield, which is the the. the third book in the the Book of Dust. series. So that's out as well. So all of. these big hitters, there's a new Jack. Reacher out in November as well. All on. different weekends. there is one new.

name to join the absolute big hitters. because actually that list is sort of. can be fairly unmoving and the big name. that last couple of years has released. books and they've done all right but is. absolutely now in the top tier it's Bob. Mortimer. >> so Bob Mortimer is the long shoe and he. is for all the talk of celebrity. novelist none of them really sell. >> no. >> but Bob Mortimer is now in the absolute. A-list and he sells a lot he sells a lot. in hardback and he sells a lot in. paperback so he now becomes someone you. have to avoid as well so his book you. know he's in the first two it would be.

like oh they're avoiding everyone and. now everyone's avoiding Bob and his is. out on the 9th of October the long shoe. that one's called. So in a world where. as I say we're we're told we're asked. where have all the male novelists gone. Uh all the male novelists will be in. water stes and Smith and your local. independent in the run-up to Christmas. yet. Can I can I just say something cuz. I knew you were going to talk about this. today and I'm interested this cuz I read. this whole deep dive that the pipe for. sort of literary fiction or for people. to become maybe literary and popular.

whatever has sort of closed because this. is the thing that I read that I found. was really extraordinary. The New Yorker. has never published a piece of fiction. by a white male born after 1984. >> ever. >> No. So they've got they've published. lots of millennial, you know, many many. pieces of millennial fiction, but n but. none by a white male now because younger. white men don't write these type of. books, right? Is that correct? And yet. all of these all of these guys. >> are I mean these guys are of a certain.

age. I'm not putting you in that age. bracket, but I'm just saying that these. Yeah. Yeah. And you don't care about. things like that. I know you are. >> But but but a certain of age, right? And. it it reminds me a little bit of that. thing that we talked about before in. movies where the biggest stars are. actually the biggest stars of who they. were 20 30 years, you know, and there. hasn't been this new generation come. through. Right. That's not the case with. you because you've done something. different. And by the way, although your. books are very confident, they're. different to this type of in some ways. quite a male book. And I'm going to.

qualify that in a minute. So just hang. on to that one. But there there hasn't. been a sort of way through in that in. literary fiction, I guess male writers. sort of worrying about either um casting. themselves as some kind of victim or. just thinking people like me are the. villain and so but popular fiction has. no such qualms. >> Yeah. >> And also not such few sales. So what. does that say about the type, you know, that people really want these books? And. another thing that I think is.

interesting is. >> that books books by men skew about 50/50. in terms of on the gender readership. So. about half and half read by men and. women. Books by women skew miles more. heavily in favor of women readers. And. as you know, maybe women read more, whatever it is. So they they've been on. the up. Something that I find quite interesting. is that there's so little publicly. available data in publishing. Why is. that? Why don't I don't really know who. buys these books. >> Yeah, I think I think it's se because.

there's so few actual big publishing. companies, it's seen as commercially. sensitive, you know, because you know. there's all these different imprints, but actually all of them are owned by. the same four or five companies. So, so. long as they're sharing that information. internally, they have all the kind of. >> Do you see things like that? >> Yes. Do you like who sells and and do. you see breakdowns of. >> Absolutely. gender, age, everything. >> for you or for others? >> For me, I I guess I could ask for. others, but uh. >> Well, I just think it's always. interesting the more you know, I think. it's interesting. >> I think so, too. I mean, I think what.

the point you're making there is there. are not there's not a shortage of male. writers. There is a shortage of young. male writers. All of the young writers. >> the next gen of those people. Yeah. All. the young and I'm not saying that's, you. know, that's wonderful and it's great. and as you said, let them have Let the. chicks have something. You didn't put it. like that. I just really want to qualify. that. But it's interesting that a. generation hasn't come through in that. way. I mean, maybe arguably even to some. extent in literary fiction, but they. haven't come through in that in that.

same way, a generation of kind of. >> Yeah. And I think the the interesting. thing will be despite you the fact. you've got all of these um heavy hitters. and you know, the Dan Brown book will. have so much money put behind it and all. of that kind of stuff. And look, you. know, probably the biggest selling. fiction book leading up to Christmas. will be a paperback, which is very, very. rare cuz it's almost always hardbacks. And that's Freedom McFaten, who we've. talked about before, who in October has. a a new book called The Intruder that's. coming out. And because she appeals to. younger readers and because she appeals. very directly to female readers, which. is where the money is and where the.

where the eyeballs are, I think a lot of. these books will do very well, perhaps. not as well as some of them might have. done in their heyday. But I wonder if. Freedom McFaden might top them all. >> I saw Beckham reading that on his yacht. holiday, a Freedom McFen. >> Did you? >> Yes. He's a metrosexual. >> He he was he was reading it on the on. the deck of his his big boat. >> Okay. God, you'd be delighted. Honestly, if he tucked a Thursday Murder Club. under his arm, I wouldn't I'd be like, you know what, I'll take that. But yeah, all all of that um stuff is coming out.

this autumn. And by the way, I can't. think in that whole there'll be a bad. book. So, whatever sort of stuff you. like, there's great stuff there. Please, please, please go into bookshops and buy. these things if you can. If you can't, if you know, >> shop down, brown a bone, you know, >> but go into shop, buy whatever you want. in there, but just but do visit do visit. bookshops because this three months. leading up to Christmas is absolutely. make or break for so many wonderful. little local independent shops and. they'll do incredible deals and. incredible events. And I've said before, if they are charging you more than.

Amazon, it is not cuz they are taking a. bigger profit. They are not gouging you. at all. They have to pay all sorts of. taxes. They have to pay their rents. They have to pay staff. all of that kind. of stuff. So if you can if you can. afford the extra couple of quid, if you. can't then you absolutely just read just. read just read. If you can afford an. extra couple of quid, then those. bookshops will be still still be there. in 5 years time and 10 years time. And. that that that's what we'd all love, isn't it? >> Just read. Just read. >> Just read. >> A book I've said is it's the best. present you can buy someone because it's. it's a it's the only present you can get.

for under a tenner that's easy to wrap. and last a lifetime. >> Any recommendations this week, Marina? >> I have got a recommendation. I saw a. really fun play. It's it's called Born. with Teeth and it's a two-parter and it. stars um Shy Gatwa and um Edward Blumal. and it's basically imagining. a writer's room with Shakespeare and. Christopher Marlo and it's it's really. funny. It's really sexy. It's really.

highbrow. I like all this stuff, but. it's also really trashy. >> Those are four things I really like. And. um I thought it was I I really liked it. I think young people, younger people, I. know people are always trying to get. younger people into theaters. I think it. would be great. It it's it's it's very. spirited and great fun. I really enjoyed. it. >> So, I'm going to recommend The Dog House. on Channel 4, which is back for another. series, which is the lovely show where. it's all to do with dogs who need a home. and families who come in who are looking. for a pet and just working out which pet.

suits which people. So, you get the. stories of the people, you get the. stories of the dogs, uh, and and usually. a happy ending as well, but it's just. it's just there's there's there there's. nothing not to like in the Doghouse. I. think it's the biggest show on Channel 4. this week as well, and I'm I'm I'm not. at all surprised. >> What about Bake Off? Even bigger. >> Do you know what? I forgot Bake Off. I. forgot Bake Off, which we will talk. about at some point, I'm sure. It is the. second biggest show on Channel 4 this. week. Thank you. Well, we will be back. on Thursday for the Q&A episode and we.

also have a really fun bonus on. Waterorld, the the famous uh Kevin. Cosner uh flop. Or was it. >> or was it a flop? Often seen as one of. the biggest flops of all time. H was it. Marina? >> If you like if you like stories about. films going wrong in the filming of. them, and you know we do. >> Uh it it's a very good one. Anyway, that's you can join at the. restentertainment.com. Otherwise, we will see you on Thursday. See you on Thursday everyone. [Music].