How The Odyssey Won The Culture War

We got a few big stories this week. >> We are obviously going to talk about The. Odyssey, which has had a massive. opening, and we can talk about. everything around that. >> We're also going to talk about Netflix, and Netflix's earnings came out. We're. going to uh explain why a company can. grow its subscriber numbers, grow its. revenue, and lose 10% of its share price. >> on Friday alone. And we're also going to. talk about a much beloved piece of IP, the Mickey Mouse Club, which is being. rebooted again. And there's a a pilot is.

going to be made rebooting the Mickey. Mouse Club. We're going to talk a bit. about the Mickey Mouse Club, >> but also about all the um careers that. it launched and how occasionally you get. a show where everyone involved becomes. incredibly famous. I have another good. example of it. >> Oh, very good. Okay. >> The rest is entertainment is presented. by Octopus Energy. >> Now, we're going to be talking about an. expression which I hadn't heard till 7. seconds ago, which is someone getting. their flowers. Can you tell me what that. means? Well, it means like you've been. around a long time, but people suddenly. think, "Hang on a second. You're amazing.

and you should be recognized.". >> So, you're finally getting your due. and you're being garlanded. Now, I would. say someone like this is someone like. Jean Smart, who plays the lead in Hacks. She plays Deborah Vance. Okay, Jean. Smart is extraordinary. She did a huge. amount of TV and stage work and there. was a sense that she was sort of always. brilliant. But then this one role came. along, Deborah Vance Hacks. They. literally just give her the Emmy every. year now. She gets she gets her flowers. every year. She gets her Emmy every.

year. As we always talk about Octopus'. customer service, your your accounts run. by about 10 or 12 people. You've got a. small team. >> They know who you are. >> Yes. And they are permitted to send. flowers every week to a customer who. might just be going through something, whatever it is. So they can recognize. it's not an apology. It's just because. someone was going through something and. they you get your flowers. >> Another example of they seem to do. business in a very interesting and. customer focused way. Imagine if Jean. Smart is an octopus customer. Might get. her flowers twice. >> Yeah. Every week.

>> Should we start with the Odyssey? >> Let's start with the Odyssey, >> which you have seen. I absolute full. disclosure, I have not seen it. I could. not get an IMAX ticket for Love Not. Money, which tells its own story. >> It does. It's I saw it. I absolutely and. completely loved it. I told you I felt. massively emotional throughout it. It's. an absolute masterpiece of storytelling. Just beyond. I mean, I feel very sorry. for anyone who's in the direct best. director category, but you know, don't. bother getting a special suit for Oscars.

night. It's absolutely Christopher Nolan. makes films that no one else would make. No one else could or would make it. I. mean, no one else could or would get. this cast. And the numbers are. extraordinary. Remember, we weren't, you. know, people weren't sure. They were. like, will anyone really want to go and. see a sort of swords and sandals thing? 124 million box office North America. 264 million globally. 51 million of that. globally came from IMAX alone, which is. sort of amazing. So about 20% of both. those numbers comes from IMAX.

>> So absolutely destroyed Oenheimer's. opening and Oppenheimer's opening was. huge. It is by a lot of metrics the. biggest opening of his career. Although. you could argue that the two Batman. movies opened slightly, adjusting for. inflation, but it was absolutely. massive. fourth highest grossing R-rated. movie of all time behind Deadpool, Deadpool 2 and Deadpool Wolverine. So. like enormous and as you say for a 2. hours 53 minutes retelling of a Greek. myth when you live in extraordinary. times and when there's an extraordinary.

artist around sometimes you sort of. don't realize it but what he is doing to. cinema and what he's done to cinema it's. it's sort of unparallel. It's completely. extraordinary. And funny enough, they. have such good audience data in America. that we just don't have the same. But. 51% of people said they went for the. director, which is incredible. That. really is amazing. I I I you know, still. you have certain people like Steven. Spielberg that people will say, "Oh, I'm. going for the director." But this. grossed more than Disclosure Day's. entire run on its opening weekend. It's.

really interesting talking about what. came in advance of this one because you. would think that going back to do the. Odyssey to do a classic home story just. wouldn't be particularly controversial. but because everything is controversial. it became very controversial. It's. amazing to think of just how many. controversies there were in the run-up. to this. People wet their pants about. everything like oh my god it's being. formatted for IMAX. Therefore, you know, if you don't see it in IMAC, don't worry. about it. No one cared. There are no. Greek actors in it. Don't worry. No.

one's going to care. All of this stuff. actually just ends up as serving as kind. of helpful that I do think is. interesting. But it did stay in the. headlines for all sorts of reasons and. we'll get to one of the biggest reasons. in a minute because that certainly. didn't have the effect it would have. liked. And it just sort of I think in. the end it just serves as helpful. noise in advance of sales. It's like. SEO. It's always there in the SEO but. people want to see this film. There's. all sorts of reasons why people might. not have turned out but they turned out. in unbelievable numbers. you couldn't.

get tickets and that's you never see you. can't get tickets for IMAX, >> you know, it's like 8:00 a.m. and you. couldn't get tickets 2:00 a.m. you. couldn't get. >> I saw it at 9:30 on a Sunday morning. with not in an IM in a very very big. screen and there were probably 150. people in there at 9:30 on a Sunday. morning. You know, the next showing was. like 9:45. >> It's unbelievable. But I think one of. the things that's interesting is this. the culture war stuff that preceded it. which was enormous. >> because as you say so this is you know. one of the oldest stories we have in our.

world culture. >> It's nearly 3,000 years old. >> Yeah. It's it's it's the bedrock of so. many other stories. It's just you know. it's in some regards certainly in in our. culture the first story. So as you say. going back to it like the Chinese they. often make movies about very very very. ancient Chinese culture because that's. where they are comfortable. That's where. there is no politics. That's where there. is no trouble. And the Odyssey should be. that. >> But it should be that. Or at least if. you just hear that that's what's being. done, that should be enough. But all the. culture wars confected rubbish could not.

ding it. Like what do you think? Like. maybe it took a few£10,000 off the box. office. I mean, it certainly tried. All. this like go woke, go broke. It's just. like Barbie. Okay. Don't worry. It's. going to be a massive film and. everyone's going to go and see it. >> Yeah. And it's made by an incredibly. intelligent man who is going to make. stuff that endures for many, many, many. generations to come. And you take him on. if you want, but you're not going to. beat him because it turns out there are. people who are as good as you are at. what you do uh at what they do.

>> Well, that's the thing. >> I'm talking about Elon Musk. >> We're talking about Elon Musk, but. there's a whole army of sort of. professional right-wing culture warriors. who piled in on this beforehand. So. boring. >> But also, you're such a hostage to. fortune. You're going to you're probably. going to look stupid. You bet against. Christopher Nolan. personally wouldn't, but it does remind you that things that. happen on social media are just not real. life. Correct. And it seemed if you were. to look at X or to look at lots of. different things that there was a real. backlash against this film, but it was a. little bit like there was people used to. say, oh, you know, everyone hates Anne.

Hathaway. And at the time when everyone. hated Anne Hatheraway, there was a sort. of viral thing about her on the internet. that people did seem to hate her. During. that time, she made Interstellar, lay. miserab, ocean, and the intern. It's. like, don't worry. I mean like she's. fine. People turn out to see her. >> You must be I often think about the the. people, you know, people got their. clicks before this movie came out. So. job done, tick, you know, very well. done. And that, you know, they can go, oh, actually really drove engagement for. me. And I, you know, I really had a go. at Odyssey. And actually, my numbers. that week were up 17%. And you think.

there's going to come a time when you. are in your 70s when you look at what. you did in this life and you compare. that to what Christopher Nolan did in. this life and you will weep yourself to. sleep every night. What you're doing is. giving nothing. It is adding nothing. And there are people in this world who. are giving something and adding. something and making the world a better. place. And if you got 17% up on your. clicks the previous week, congratulations. But honestly, you're. not going to have a fun old age.

>> I could I could I could not agree more. I It's so It's It's so pathetic. I feel. so embarrassed for them. It's. embarrassing. >> The madness of this and this era has. totally gone to that. >> Have opinions. Have opinions by all. means, but but come on. >> But but but you know, if you have ones. this wrong, just be prepared to have. your ass handed to you on Monday morning. box office. And also be happy being a. tech genius, be happy being the richest. man in the world, or be happy with all. these things. that you you cannot buy or. have it all. They these are people who.

tell people to stay in their lane more. than anything. If anyone in sport speaks. out about politics, if anyone anyone. says anything, they they get told by. these people to stay in their lane. Well, what are you doing out of your. lane? Like, you don't know anything. Like Christopher Nolan doesn't sit there. pontificating all day and saying the. momentum's totally gone out of the. SpaceX launch and you know the IPO tra. traders are already betting against it. I don't rocket. >> even though it's true. >> Um he knows what he doesn't know and. just I think it's so extraordinary that.

people feel everyone can be a critic. I. get that. But there is a point with like. the right where just okay make some of. your own movies that are good. Okay, not. like something about Hunter Biden. starring Lawrence Fox. Okay, which I. haven't seen but would actually like to. watch. Yes, >> I'm sure it's available on YouTube very. but I just make something decent or just. sit down. Also, yeah, I mean that's the. thing is, you know, because of, you. know, context collapse around the whole. world is is we get to see everyone all. the time. We get to hear everyone's.

opinions all of the time. And for most. of us, that's dealable with because we. understand everyone's different to us. There are a group of people who have to. try. They want the world to bend to. their will because they can put a rocket. in space or whatever it is. And there. lots of different examples of these. people. Yeah. Exactly. But they want the. whole world to look like them. That's. what because they cannot handle the fact. that almost everyone disagrees with. almost everyone else. They can't handle. it. It's too difficult for them. They.

want everyone to love them. They want to. be the king of the world. They want. everyone to go, "Oh, do you know what? Actually, he's right. Actually, that's. what we'll do." Every time there's. something even vaguely successful or. popular that they don't understand and. which they could not make in a million. years, they have to try and bring it. down. You think? Just genuinely stay in. your lane. do the thing that you're good. at and let us enjoy Christopher Nolan. >> Okay. To return to the film, let's. return to the film because even though. it like all of these things, it seems. once it's happened to be this nailed on.

amazing success and it is this huge pop. cultural event. So, I think it has. various things that you need for it to. become this kind of breakout thing that. everyone's aware of. >> It has an incredible cast that appeals. to very I think this is crucial to all. kinds of demographics. Some of them are. overlapping but lots of and it's. interesting lots of these are actually. stars of franchises even. >> so we got Matt Damon we got an Haway we. got Tom Holland. >> well Tom think of the franchise stars. you've got Tom Holland Zena Charize.

Leita Nyongo Robert Patterson all of. those bring actually different franchise. they do lots of other things as well. some of them overlap but you you want to. get a whole sort of age range into this. thing you've got a beyond A-list. director as we say who like everyone. will work for and that people go to his. movies. It does once again remind me of. just the disaster of Warner Brothers. losing him during the pandemic over. theatrical release. I mean, that was one. of the great great mess ups of recent. Hollywood history. You've got a very.

simple to explain story. You don't have. to sort of say, "Oh, it's sort of about. this. It's the Odyssey." As I said at. the start of this year when I was. predicting films, I said, "This this is. still on the I think it's the middle. school curriculum.". >> Um, and it's but that it it sort of. helps, you know, people sort of know. what it is. He should do an Inspector. Calls next. >> Yeah, [laughter]. that that is Yeah. And that. >> I would watch that. I would watch that. >> I would watch it. >> It's obviously got great reviews. But. one crucial thing it has is the sense. that you must see it in cinemas. And.

that is incredibly helpful that you're. not thinking, "Oh, wait. It's a kind of. like a small thing. I'll see it on the. streaming or I'll whatever it is or I'll. even see it in the pay window." You you. must see it in theaters. you want to see. it with other people. >> and the bigger theater the better. >> and the bigger the bigger the one the. better the other thing I would say is. that this year is turning out to be. amazing for originals which for me makes. me very happy the it's going to deliver. something like 36% of the glo global box. office this year that went down to about.

20% in 2019 where we were just like. mired in endless franchise stuff it's. interesting the films that have got. enormous you know Michael you know my. thoughts yeah. >> has crossed a billion now obsession. [snorts] is now on about $430 million. I. mean, it's ridiculous. This cost. >> $750,000. >> And also and and the films that haven't. done big, you know, uh the new Minions. movie didn't do great. The Moana live. action didn't do great. You know, all. these things done really badly. >> Yeah. Uh so, yeah, it's it's it's very. interesting that we got bigger original.

movies. Last year, I went to see The. Invite. Right. So, we talk about these. huge kind of box office villas and uh. The Odyssey and it's great to get people. back in the cinema, but where are the. smaller films? Well, those are out as. well. The Invite is absolutely great. It's so funny. It's Olivia Wild in it. and directed it as well. Seth Rogan, Penelopey Cruz, and a brilliant Ed. Norton who knew he could do comedy. And. it's just it's sort of like a one set. movie, but it's just you think, "Oh, that's I mean, what a fun thing to go at. the see at the cinema." So, you got. Odyssey, which cost, you know, 250. million and is extraordinary and looks.

amazing. And then. >> they're marketing beyond for this. It's. going to take a long time to we'll get. it all back. this beautifully written. funny film which is in cinemas as well. and you can get tickets for and you. don't need to see an IMAX. >> equally I would say and also the Odyssey. this is going to have really long legs. and people will see it people probably. see it multiple times and people will. see it across the summer and it there's. nothing in in the way next weekend at. all again. >> yeah they've got no releasing nothing. Spider-Man the week after Spider-Man.

brand new day which I think is going to. be massive but they've got nothing next. week so it's got a really clear run. again that's slightly interesting to me. that in the summer that you don't have. another thing. >> I mean, I would have thought to be. honest, it's because they knew Odyssey. was going to be huge and it's 3 hours. long and that takes up a lot of screens. and a lot of multiplexes, so quite hard. to launch something. I think they. thought that's going to dominate two. weeks. Normally, you think the film's. going to dominate a week. I think that. Odyssey will dominate two weeks for. sure. >> I agree. But I I think you could have. had something that's very female. skewering. You could have had something. sort of different, but they don't really. have those movies. So, it's kind of like.

they have these giant originals whilst. they have the small things. And there. isn't something that can't rush out. There isn't a Barbie as it were. I know. that was a sort of unique cultural. moment, but it would be good if there. was something like that as well that you. think, oh, well, everybody's going to. benefit from this. Um, but again, it is. brilliant for originals. It's it's not. nailed on at all this stuff. Everyone. thinks he can just do any. I mean, as I. say, it is just a complete masterpiece. in my opinion. Just complete. extraordinary. Someone at the peak of. their powers. But it's it's really not. nailed on that people would go and see a.

film about someone coming back from a. war that's based on a very old story. And to have delivered that is just a. complete triumph for Universal for. Syncopy for with their production. company um Christopher Nolans and his. wives. And I I think it is it's sort of. brilliant cultural moment. But you can. bet against Christopher Nolan. You can. bet against anybody, but all of these. culture warriors just at least wait to. see it before you do it. It it's such a. complete nonsense not waiting to see it. before you.

>> But also, you know, when you do. something extraordinary, you do you like. it. You enjoy it when people bow down to. you and give you your dues. Just do that. for other people. Show that respect to. other people who are at the top of their. game and you can do something that you. definitely can't do. Just, you know, have some class. >> Bankroll movies this good that reflect. exactly your own worldview. And see if. that many people want to come out and. see them on a summer weekend cuz I can. cuz I can tell you right now, they won't. want to. They won't. That's true. And. it's interesting when you say that it's. not baked in that people would go and.

see this. I always think this with. someone like Christopher Nolan who who's. been so extraordinarily brilliant for. such a long time. It is not baked in. that he makes a good movie. It is not. baked in that he has the that he has the. energy that his brain sort of fires in. the right way at the right time. The. amount of choices you have to get right. year after year after year after year to. have the sort of career he has is. absolutely extraordinary. It it I find I. find myself tired even thinking about. it, thinking about the attention to. detail that he's had. >> When you're directing a movie this big, there are 500 big choices every day of.

production. >> and he gets so many of them right all. the time and and listen, we are we are. very very lucky to have him. >> Absolutely. >> Shall we go for a break and then uh talk. a little bit about Netflix? >> Let's do that. [music]. This episode is brought to you by the. Lloyd's 5K House Deposit. >> Lloyds are offering a 5K house deposit. which was last seen in 1996. What are. your entertainment memories of the. 1990s?

>> I feel guilty talking about the 1990s. because you look back and it was it was. such a golden era. >> We'd never had it so good and we didn't. even realize cuz we were young and we. just thought we were entitled to it all. >> We absolutely took it for granted. Yeah. Brit pop was absolutely in its pomp. Oasis playing to a quarter of a million. people. You had Blur. I'm so sorry. >> Spice Girls, amazing movies at the. cinema, Train Spotting. I mean, it it. felt a time of absolute optimism. But at. the time, you just assumed that was the. way that the. >> a very British type of optimism. >> Yeah. But and part of the optimism, of.

course, is that mortgages were more. affordable. And that is what Lloyds is. uh is dealing with right now. >> Yeah. Last seen in 1996, Lloyds are now. offering 5K deposit mortgages to. firsttime buyers. Search 5K firsttime. buyer. 1996 average first-time buy. deposits based on ONS data. Subject to. status, your home may be repossessed if. you don't keep up repayments. Conditions. apply. [music]. >> Welcome back everybody. Now, is Netflix.

in trouble? Last week they had an. earnings call and their engagement. reports. Um, >> they do those four times a year. So, it's it's a quarterly report. essentially. the the enga yeah the. engagement is a bit different and we'll. get to how that's even that is changing. their revenue gains they had 12.6. billion in revenue 97 billion hours. viewed that's 2% growth they had a 3.4 4. billion net profit in the last quarter. They got their debt down. But that call.

resulted in another dip in the stock. price. Netflix is currently half the. value it was in October when they went. in for Warers. As you know, they lost. currently to uh Paramount Sky Dance. >> And this is despite the fact that. subscriber growth is growing, revenue is. growing, all of these things are. growing. And so I I thought it's an. interesting story to talk about about. why that is. Why does Wall Street hat. them, Richard? >> Why does Wall Street? Well, because is. so they grow. So here's here's how. ridiculous the world of money is. Okay,

now their revenue in the last quarter. 12.56. billion. Okay, $12.56 billion. That's a. lot of money. Yeah, right. That is a lot. of money. Like if if if that was in a. suitcase. Yeah. Right. We need someone. to help us with it. Right. 12.56. billion. >> The prediction for what they were going. to make was 12.58 billion. So they got. 12.56 billion, but Wall Street had said, "I reckon they're going to make 12.58. billion." And so this was seen as a. disaster in some way. And the reason.

this is, so Netflix is huge. It. continues to be huge. It continues to. grow. We'll talk about, you know, there. are, you know, issues about how they. continue to grow. But Wall Street needs. you to grow exponentially all of the. time. That's what it needs you to do. You can't just be profitable and keep. adding, you know, numbers and, you know, make 12 billion. It has to be. No, but. how how are you going to get this to 13. billion? How are you going to get it to. 14 billion? You become the most. successful company in the world. And by. any metric, what Netflix has done in the. world of streaming is extraordinary, almost unparalleled in the entertainment.

world. They it's it's the business they. built is insane. >> Yeah. >> But then you get to the stage and we had. this when I was at Endermol. We we built. this company from really really tiny to. like massive. And so like 10 years. later, you you're like, "Wow, we I mean. this is amazing what we did. We had this. company. knew it was making, you know, a. few programs and now it makes all these. programs. You have to go into a meeting. where they say, "Okay, we need 15%. growth next year." And you're like, "Have we not done that already? Can we. not just sit back and go, let's keep. doing that?" That's what's happened with.

Netflix. They are so successful, but. Wall Street needs them to grow and grow. and grow. And we will talk about a. number of reasons why that gets harder. and harder. But. >> yeah, because I saw a lot of people. saying effectively, "Oh, look, you're a. media company now. Before you're like a. tech company, and everyone's like, oh, they're so special. They have this. magical growth and it's like they've. exhausted their kind of fumes and. honeymoon period and the idea that. there's something different. They're. somehow part of Silicon Valley rather. than the television landscape or you. know to to use the oldfashioned term of.

it. And now it's like all right you're a. media company. You're subject to the. same ups and downs and headwinds and. you're not growing enough and we're. going to do the same thing to you that. we always did to media companies. >> Yeah, it's nar, you know, it's it's. narrative in that world. I mean I I. think it's probably quite useful for for. them to have this narrative now when. they've got plenty of cash flow and they. are still doing well because you you. will come back from this. You will swing. back from it. So why is it difficult for. Netflix to grow? >> A couple of reasons. The main. >> first of all they they they are growing. They are growing. It's amazing. The last. past two years they've grown between 14.

and 18% every quarter. Okay. Now in Q2. they grew 13.2%. Okay. Disappointing. Disappointing. >> Disappointing. Um, so yeah, they need to. keep growing. >> Yeah. And it's hard in in America for. example, the again this is Wall Street. thinking it wouldn't necessarily be I. mean they're sort of right. They have. almost saturated that market in America. And America they make a lot of money. Each customer in America is worth a lot. of money to them. A lot of people are on.

that premium tier rather than the ad. tier. >> 65% of new subscribers though are on the. ad tier. And that is one way they can. grow by growing that tier. Well, thereby, and I don't want to get. complicated about this, but the premium. tier is huge money for Netflix. Why? It's got all this money and can spend. all of this money. >> to grow. They have to offer this ad. tier. They have to offer a cheaper way. in because all of the people who want to. and can afford $22 a month are pretty. much already doing it. There's you can't. ek out anything else. So, you think,

okay, how do we then bite into this. other 40% of the market that is not with. us? Well, the first way you do that is. by offering the same same thing but. cheaper. And the way. >> that's how they did it after they had. another dip in 2022. Remember they went. absolutely gang busters during the. pandemic and there was a point where. they were valued at um more than Exon. Mobile. And if you I looked yesterday. and they're now about half of what Exon. Mobile is less than half. >> Good for Exon Mobile. >> Good for Exon. Well done. >> But if you do that, >> but they turned a lot of it around with.

that ad tier. >> Yeah. Yeah. But if you have that ad. tier, there's two things that happen. First, you can call a number of those. people back. you know, you can offer. this at $7 instead of $22. And people. go, "Oh, I actually will try Netflix and. I'll put up with the adverts." But you. also have a large number of the people. paying $22 who go, "Actually, I don't. mind a few adverts if I'm saving $14 a. month." So, actually, you lose the. revenue at that top end as well for. every single person you add. So, actually, you have to add an awful lot. of people for your certainly for your. profit margins to go up. So, that's a.

difficulty they've got. And also in. other territories that aren't America, uh there is much less appetite for the. premium service and much more appetite. for adfunded service. So they are making. less money per per person they put on. So in really simple terms, there are. fewer people out there who they can sign. up to their service and those people. will be bringing them less money. Now. that's just that's a problem of a big. mature massive company who's been. incredibly successful. But if you're. Wall Street, that's a huge problem. because Wall Street just needs growth.

That's all it needs because Wall Street. is is about having a return on your. investment and so you have to have a lot. of upside and at the moment they they. don't see that in Netflix and the other. issue they have Netflix is they're. they're really big competitors and I. mean they have blown all the streamers. out of the water. Apples, the Disneys, I. mean, you know, they are absolutely the. daddy of this whole sector. But what. they haven't blown out of the water is. YouTube, is Roku, Tuby, all of these.

free services. And we know now that so. many people watch YouTube on their TV. So, it's a it's a proper competitor to. Netflix. It's free. If you don't want to. subscribe to certain channels, and. that's where the huge competition, if. you're Wall Street, that's where the. huge competition is coming from. Wall. Street are not thinking, "Wow, you won. the streaming wars. you're this big. beast and you're making all these. incredible TV programs and people want. to work with you. They're thinking what. are you going to do about YouTube? What. are you going to do about CB? >> It's interesting because I do think that. the engagement issue is big and that is. also big with investors. They have got.

this issue with engagement of we've got. like the second season of lots of shows. maybe underperformed like um man on the. inside night manager beef even the four. seasons. What they've said as well, which I think is a little bit that this. is also not played particularly well, they've said we're no no longer going to. tell you every six months what people. are watching. We're now just going to do. it once a year. Now, what does that tell. you? That the numbers don't look great. and they need to show them to us in a. slightly different way. And they already.

no longer release subscriber data. Remember, they've stopped doing that. Yeah. >> Um then they're and they're saying, "Judge us on our financials, our. revenue, and our operating profit." and. they say that engagement is healthy, but. clearly they are obscuring more of it. and investors have not loved that. >> Well, they've been more transparent than. the other streamers. >> Sorry, big caveat. We know absolutely. nothing about Apple and we don't know a. whole lot about Prime. But remember, those are not primarily content.

businesses. They are other businesses. that have content arm. And in the case. of something like Apple or Amazon, it. really is a tiny percentage of what they. do. But if you're if you're a big media. company, you do you have to try and. control that narrative. If what you're. trying to do is keep your share price. high, which is one of the things that. they have to do, you have to control the. narrative. It is in a room full of Wall. Street people, you can control the. narrative by talking about the numbers. The second you are showing uh how many. people are watching Stranger Things or. Bridgetton, that becomes a conversation,

a completely different conversation with. a completely different group of people, it gets out of their control. So, if you. say, well, look, Stranger Things and. Bridgetton are ending, which they both. are, and these are two of the biggest. franchises they've ever had, then there. is a very, very simple story, which is, oh my god, there's no way they're going. to be able to replace those two things. This is an absolute disaster. Whereas, that's not really shown in the figures. is the truth. But that's the. conversation, and Wall Street listens to. that conversation. Now, Netflix are so. massive because they've consistently. produced hits and they've had hits that.

have ended, and they've replaced those. hits. But you can't prove that. You. can't say to Wall Street, "Oh, don't. don't worry. We will have another huge. show coming up." But we when we talked. about Channel 4 as well, we say it is a. hits business. All Netflix needs is two. or three big hits in the next couple of. years, like big returning shows. >> Premium hits though. These are premium. hits. And it's difficult because their. messaging is a bit odd. Ted Sarand said. last year, the co of Netflix said, "Oh, we you know, we're not competing with. YouTube. YouTube's a place where you.

waste time. you know a Netflix place. where you spend time but. >> he's changed his tune since then hasn't. he. >> but you are more and more you what have. they done they are competing with. YouTube okay first of all they literally. are bringing creators across sometimes. on non-exclusive deal deals so some of. the biggest people like you know we. talked about them before Miss Rachel or. whoever. >> and her numbers by the way are. absolutely off the charts for something. that that had already been made and and. is available on YouTube on YouTube it. it's absolutely huge the engagement.

>> but you can see what else they're. They're bringing lifestyle content. They're bring getting all these sort of. food influencers. They're getting lots. of stuff that is and we know that. they're getting podcast stuff um over. lots and lots of podcast things. And the. part of the reason of that is that. people think they they've realized that. people see Netflix as an evening thing. >> You're not going to put it on in a day. You come home and then you watch. Netflix. You don't have that. They need. in order for you to spend longer with. the platform, which is the primary goal. of all these people, they need stuff. that you might might put on in the day,

you know, maybe it's a for it's a form. of visual radio or what, sorry to use. these kind of old words and try and show. people. It's kind of a background thing. They need people to have that stuff. >> And it's interesting. The podcast stuff. was interesting because they've. obviously spent a lot of money on. podcasts, but they lumped them all in. together and didn't allow you to see how. how well or how not very well at all. >> It was very Yeah. clear that they they. they were not showing you those numbers. >> One thing they are pointing to is. sports. Anything sports that they do, remember they they famously for a very.

long time said they don't didn't do. sports and then it was sports adjacent. and it's now it's just like okay we do. sports. They got the women's world cup. next year that will be interesting. >> Um but also they pointed to the fact. that live events. >> as we in the old style in the old style. drive the bigger signup days. So if. you've got something then those are the. days when you people think I've got to. have it now before. >> well that's the fascinating thing. So. they they spend sorry for the numbers. they spend 5% of their content spend on. these live events which is a lot when.

you spend a lot on content whereas it. only drives 1% of viewing. So it looks. like they're overspending by five times. there. But as you see I think six of the. biggest sign updates in the history of. Netflix have all come off the back of. these live events. So they're an. incredible driver. >> to new subscribers. It just it just. absolutely. >> a live event appointment to view all. these oldfashioned things that people. feel they have to have it. >> Yeah. And by the way, it it's only 1% of. viewing because it's one and done. You. know, you watch live event and then it's.

done. So it's it's it's never going to. get more than that. But it's they're. absolutely worth their weight and gold. And though, you know, rights to things. and big events are are absolutely going. to be worth their weight and gold. >> But more and more they want to make. their landing page. You can see lots of. it all despite having sort of gone. against YouTube. They're trying to make. it more and more like YouTube. I. personally don't think they should. I. think that they should exist as. something that is more premium, more. curated. You know, it's what they do. best because you cannot compete with. YouTube. >> But the trouble, but this is where Wall.

Street Well, Wall Street doesn't Wall. Street doesn't shoot itself in the foot. cuz like Wall Street cares, but Wall. Street is forcing them to do something. which is not right for the business. is. forcing them to to to leave premium. behind and do this thing and try and. chase the eyeballs of YouTube, try and. chase the eyeballs of Tuby. And as you. say, it works against the premium nature. of Netflix's business. But they can't. keep growing 15% a year just doing that. premium thing. What they can do is have. an incredibly successful and hugely. financed and massive revenue business, but that's not how the money markets.

work. So the. >> What about M&A? We talked about when. they didn't get Warers, we said, well, this is actually at the time it seemed. like a win for them because they managed. to look through the books of a legacy. media company. It was be it had become. very overpriced by the end. The Edison. obviously just wanted it so much, >> but everyone sort of had the view at the. time that it was interesting that they'd. gone in for it because they hadn't. expected it. They were sort of going in, people thought it was they were going in. for it in a sort of it's a nice to have. thing kind of way. Now, is there a sense.

that they actually needed to buy. something? They Fox bought Roku, which I. thought they could have bought. >> Um, >> and so, so Roku, by the way, it's sort. of like is sort of like Chubby. It's. it's it's free to air, you know, advertiser funded, but crucially, and. you've talked about this before, it. exists on the homepage of an awful lot. of connected televisions. So, Fox and. TubeB are now the first thing you see on. a huge amount of connected television. So that's a that's a a powerful empire. they are building there and and. absolutely sort of parking their their.

tanks on YouTube's lawn and taking a lot. of the kind of uh the the cheaper. Netflix customers away. So that's that I. think that I felt that was a. sensationally clever thing to buy. Yes. In in terms of M&A so mergers and. acquisitions in terms of so talking of. endol again you get to the point they're. going okay you got to keep growing 15%. 15%. and think well we've got big. brother we got deal no deal we're making. all this money out this stuff but it's a. you know there comes a point where that. dips uh and so the thing that you always. do and genuinely I always find it to be.

cheating. >> is you buy another company because the. money you spend on it you spend 200. million and that seems to be forgotten. by everyone it's the revenue it brings. in it's the cash flow it brings in and. they're like oh no it's amazing cuz. you're you know absolutely growing your. earnings by you know 17% cuz you yeah we. just paid 150 million pound for. something. I mean, that doesn't feel I. mean, that feels cheating to me. Um, and. you're not following the DNA of your. company, the DNA of Ender, people. sitting around a table inventing. television shows and selling them. You. are now just kind of going, "Oh, let's.

just get some suits into, you know, work. out who we can buy, who sort of, you. know, who kind of fits what we do and, you know, we we don't have a company. that does music videos, so let's buy a. music video company." Uh and so you grow. and then you know the the analysts are. happy. You know the the hedge funds who. own 17% of you are happy because they. can see growth but it's cheating. It's. not real growth. You know you can buy. whoever you want. It's not it's someone. else's growth. You just bought it. Uh. and so you know I admire the fact that. Netflix are not just going out and.

buying growth. They're not just going. out and buying other companies. You know. they seem to be very strategic about. what they want to do. It's not to say. they won't because I'm sure they will at. some point. There will be someone who. fits them perfectly. But the fact. they're not just going, "Oh, this is an. easy way to grow 17%. We just buy a. company that already makes, you know, $4. billion." Uh, and yeah, I always hated. it so much. It genuinely it felt like. cheating. And also, it makes the company. too big. It makes the company too hard. to manage and it cuts the sort of the. culture from the heart of a company. >> He says they're very careful investors. around us. So, we'll see. But it's.

interesting. I definitely think there is. something to what people have been. saying which is that that tech sorcery. sheen has has come off Netflix and. people now think you're a media company. now. >> Yeah, they are. And but you know I hope. that there's a different narrative which. can now kind of take that place which is. you're a media company and oh my god. what an incredible media company you are. and you've been and you know I've worked. with Netflix a fair bit. I'm working. with them at the moment and it's as a. creator it's just a it's a still a.

really amazing place to work and that's. the thing that will drive them. That's. but that's what you want from a from a. media company just go let's keep doing. the thing we do well and keep providing. people with entertainment uh and keep. making great things with great people. >> We could talk about bricks and mortar. We could say they don't have a park. >> um and many of the other kind of legacy. companies have park. I don't I. personally don't think they have. something that their USP is that they. are sort of the world's television. channel and that I don't think they.

actually. >> I'm not quite sure what can't quite. imagine what the park would look like. >> but maybe I I imagine we'd have said. that if if Disney had said oh you know. that you know you really like Snow White. and Fantasia I am going to build roller. coasters you're like ah well I don't. that doesn't sound like that's a very. good idea I'm going to have an enormous. castle there's going to be. >> I can't wait for baby reindeer world but. well But [laughter]. >> that's actually a really really good. idea. Oh my god. >> So much fun. >> Uh but yeah, listen, it it it's um it's.

so hard because YouTube don't YouTube. don't don't have to make anything. No, they don't have to do anything at all. I. mean, listen, they you know, they're. going to show the Oscars and things like. that. And you know, they have they have. great relationships with their creators, but you know, >> but they actually they they have. declining relationships with lots of. their creators actually, but it doesn't. matter. It doesn't seem to matter. because those creators are using YouTube. to because where are we going instead? >> Well, the creators make their money off, you know, uh selling things. But, you. know, YouTube is an incredible uh shop. window. YouTube is like the the the the.

greatest business plan that ever. created. They don't really do anything. They got they've got enough money to do. literally anything they want, buy. anything they want. People are making. their content for them day in day out. They literally, it's like when MTV. started, when when when we did our um. our our special bonus episodes about MTV. that someone else is providing you with. all the programming and yet you get to. keep most of the advertising. I mean, it's it's absolutely insane. But YouTube. made $60 billion last year. I mean, it's. it's I mean, that's a hell of a. business, isn't it? >> It's it's a very successful business.

And I I just think if you know if. Netflix can keep making premium really. smart television in a world where there. is that company as well, then we should. probably try and support them as much as. we possibly can. It also makes you. think, my god, the BBC does a good job. >> Yeah. >> Talking of Disney, the Mickey Mouse Club. is coming back. I wanted to talk about. it because of that incredible uh reboot. they did, the the people who came out of. the uh ' 80s '90s reboot. But uh but. fill us in on the background a bit. Fullwell, who make lots of really.

interesting things, are going to reboot. the Mickey Mouse Club. >> and that's Ben Winston and James Cordon. and a a big British success story. >> It certainly is. And it's quite. interesting the history of the Mickey. Mouse Club because it's a sort of old. thing. Walt Disney himself started it. and it was a daily hour-long variety. show. This is in 1955 starring children. which was basically unprecedented. Yeah. And it grew up out of sort of real clubs. where people joined and they hung out. and they watched cartoons, but it was. obviously a brilliant marketing plot. Uh.

they did sort of skits and musical. numbers and they had guests and they. pushed the cartoons and they had themed. days and actually the money from that. that original contract was with ABC and. the money that he got from that Walt. Disney enabled him to complete Anaheim. to complete Disneyland the first park. >> There you go. Which I just think is a. terrible idea. I can't see what a Disney. theme park would look like. >> Yeah. Okay. It then goes away, this. show, until the 70s, the late '7s, and. then it goes away again until the late.

80s when the all new Mickey Mouse Club. comes out. This is where I get. interested. >> This is where it's much more. contemporary that one. It's skewed a bit. older. Um, they had some sort of cals. within it and it's got a live studio. audience. So, please talk to me about. the talent roster of the all new Mickey. Mouse Club. >> Yeah, I was looking through all of I was. looking through the various iterations. just cuz you know I I I know that this. version the uh the 80s 90s one was huge. So I was thinking I wonder if the. previous generations were huge and and. they were not. It's like and so and so. went on to be like the neighbor in this.

sitcom in the 1960s. You go okay that's. interesting. So I thought that maybe it. had a history of really really launching. careers. Um so in the late 80s early 90s. huge amounts of uh of of auditions. Virtually everyone, I mean, there's lots. of people here who you'd heard of, but. an awful lot of very famous people. didn't get into the Mickey Mouse Club. >> But the Mickey Mouse Club in that era, you have you have to say if you've heard. of these people or not. >> Britney Spears. >> Yeah. >> You don't make me No, I won't. I promise.

I won't. Um, but play along at home if. you want to. So, Britney Spears goes on. to be one of one of the biggest selling. pop artists in history. Christina. Aguilera was one of the uh the Mickey. Mouse Club. Justin Timberlake. I mean, already that's pretty good. >> Kerry Russell. >> Yeah, I know. That's mad, isn't it? >> From the Americans and the Diplomat. One. of just one of the greatest actors in. the world. She started out on the uh. Mickey Mouse Club. And uh just a young. gentleman called Ryan Gosling. >> I mean, there weren't many people in the. Mickey Mouse Club. No.

>> Right. This this is not like there were. 500 and we cherrypicked them. There. there were there were not many people. and all of these people went through. those doors at the same time and all of. them went on to have these absolutely. extraordinary careers in. >> the only thing that had to happen was. for their childhood to be erased. >> It's all you ever need. >> Yeah. So well so many people failed. their audition. Don't forget like some. Matt Damon would have been a different. odyssey [laughter] failed his audition. Um Jessica Simpson there's a lot of. people who say oh I failed my audition.

to the Mickey Mouse Club. Courtney Love. claims she'd read a Sylvia Platau. >> I Yes. >> Um, but Fullwell are going to do, I. think, something different in that. they're not going to do a daily show. By. the way, that is in terms of like. pastoral care and nightmare doing a. daily show involving kids. Um, I can see. why they're drawn to this because. there's a lot of people who are making. TV who feel something we just talked. about that their their children are. watching this stuff on young children.

are watching YouTube. They're not. watching anything that you would. consider long form at all. >> And they're trying to think like, >> can we again I think they've done. something quite similar to that. >> peak era Mickey Mouse all new Mickey. Mouse Club. They've got 11 kids. They're. 13 to 15 and I think there's one 16y old. and so they're getting older. It it's. not going to be that saccharine because. yeah, nothing can be. >> authentic these days if it's that. saccharine. remember you're competing.

with sort of YouTube families and people. sort of that's the kind of long- form. content that young children will watch. is that they'll watch like YouTube. families and we know I mean that is a. that is a pastoral nightmare as well as. we know from the various exposees but. you you want it so they want it to still. be a variety show but with story lines. Yeah. Um so maybe they're putting on a. weekly show and so it's part reality. show. For me, what's interesting about. this is there were all sorts of these. things and we talk about this all the. time that it's these are old ideas.

Yeah. >> And they can be remade very successfully. and I hope you know I I wish them all. the luck with this one. Fullwell did. another thing that I thought was very. interesting. When Wicked for Good came. out, they made a Wicked TV special. Now. TV specials are just like such an. old-fashioned idea. >> Yeah. The Friends Reunion was one of. those. >> They did the Friends Reunion as well. And so instead of thinking oh like okay. it's a reunion these things have sort of. existed and hung around and they're. actually just like really old-fashioned. pieces of content TV specials about a.

movie that's going to be not on TV are. particularly one of these but that. wicked TV special did unbelievable. numbers and they worked out how to make. you know the stars the sort of center of. it and to bring people on and have. guests and do all of it and it felt new. and it felt like like a lot of things. like oh this is really good it's like. yeah we we've actually been making this. sort of stuff the last time you might. have seen One of these is in the 80s, but it's they really work. >> Well, it's like the return of the roasts. to Netflix, you think. I mean, it's it's. the oldest idea in the world, but it's. it does huge numbers for them if you do.

them right. >> Yes, absolutely. So, these kind of. oldfashioned ideas and thinking what's. going to keep people what's going to. keep them watching? Obviously, they're. incredibly clippable, which is helpful, but what what's going to keep people. watching? What's going to build what. isn't going to be YouTube, but is going. to build talent and stars? And I I think. they're all going to be very very very. talented these um kids. And what can you. keep people coming back? >> They should have a couple of untalented. ones just for just for comparison. >> Yes. >> Don't you think? Just go. It honestly it.

shows you how amazing Jerry is when you. look at John. >> Well, you look at all this stuff. I mean. those the eras when people did this. I. mean look at something like S Club 7. They're doing a big documentary about. that which I think will be amazing. because that's a sort of again that's. the sort of thing where that it's sort. of real but it's sort of not and they. sort of live together and they sort of. don't and they're sort of doing a show. and they're also. >> sort sort of not but it is compelling. and there are ways where it can be. authentic enough I think for young. audiences. >> and if you're full well here's you know.

there's all sorts of so this is a brand. we've heard of right if they just say. that oh we're launching a new talent. thing we wouldn't be talking about it. we're talking about it because it's. interesting because it's a Mickey Mouse. club and we know what happened to the. Mickey Mouse Club in the 80s and '90s. So, we know it was absolutely enormous. So, it's a bit of IP that will get you. through the door. It will get you kind. of, you know, eyeballs for the first few. days. Uh, you then just have to rely on. making something brilliant. And if you. make something brilliant, people will. watch it. Whereas without the title of. the Mickey Mouse Club, you can make. something brilliant and no one would. ever see it. And what that, you know, the world now is a world of so, you.

know, full will be paid to make it and. that's all fine, but that's not really. the business. the business is do we have. a relationship with people who are. suddenly going to have 200 million. Instagram followers and we can we can. make the next thing for them and this. for them they got 11 shots at building a. massive start five of them will fall out. with the production company because. because you know of egos you know three. of them won't do anything but there. might be two you go okay these two we. got for the next five years and you know. we can make a huge amount of money out.

of them and that's that's what you have. to do as a photographer. >> it's like what you you've been saying a. lot about Dancing with the Stars or um. Strictly. This is that for kids. >> Yeah, >> this is the equivalent of doing Dance. with the Stars, but for kids. There's a. thing they'll have lots of, you know, secondary content, lots of other things, but you will be able to tune in once a. week and see it all and think, "Oh, I. see." You know, >> and parents will be comfortable with you. if you're 9 years old turning that on. It might even put you in the direction. of it. So, you could be, you know, that's they put their ante into the.

table. So, you're you're at the table, that's for sure. And now you just got to. hope you get good cards. But, you know, that's the thing. You do you do need the. buy in and the Mickey Mouse Club is a. buyin and the fact they're a great. production company means perhaps they'll. make it brilliantly well, but you know, they definitely have a chance. I was. thinking about shows that um, you know, launch uh launch a huge amount of stars. I was trying to think if there's a. British equivalent of the Mickey Mouse. Club and I thought, well, our friends in. the north. >> Yeah. >> Because you got Gina McKe and you got. Christopher Eckleston and you got Mark. Strong and you got Daniel Craig. Yeah.

You know, you've literally got four of. the biggest actors in the world. You got. a Doctor Who and you've got a James Bond. there. But I think T4, I think you look. back to T4. T4 was was like a weekend. morning show, you know, it's just where. you would link in between things. Bands. would come on, there'd be VTs and things. like that. But, you know, it had just. had these young quite hip. >> presenters. But from the T4, you've got. Vernon K, Rick Edwards, Dermat Liry, Simon Amtol, Alexa Chung, Ben Shepard,

Steve Jones, Jamila J, Makita Oliver. I. mean, that's a that is a hit rate, isn't. it? I mean, and June Sarpong, who is now. I messaged Rick Edwards the other day. and said I lost my uh sweep stake on. which T4 presenter would become the. first to enter the House of Lords. because she's she's about to be enable. because she she's done amazing work for. years behind the scenes. Uh June Saong, but it's I mean that's incredible to do. a show and the freedom they had on that. show as well to show who they were and. and what it is they could do that.

launches everybody. >> Well, that was quite anarchic in it. which I think is probably better. the. Mickey Mouse Club of of that era was I. think relatively difficult and you just. were forged in its fires or consumed by. them. >> For sure. I mean, yeah, Fwell I think. either we have a hit here or we've got a. documentary in 20 years time and. >> well, it's very very different doing one. show a week to to five shows a week. >> But maybe Fwell might like to look at. rebooting T4. >> Yes. >> And finding uh finding the next. generation of uh of TV presenters. But.

it's uh listen, we we again it's a. British successful story, isn't it? I. like it when British production. companies go and uh make a bit of money. in America. >> because Americans make enough money out. of us. Yeah. >> Don't they? And you know, >> fair play to them. >> I'm not complaining. Our recommendations. this week, I think we've already done. You're going to recommend the. >> Odyssey. Obviously, I literally I'm. going to say it again. >> Uh and I will recommend the invite. It's. it's just very funny. I I would say. this. Don't go with your partner if your. marriage is in trouble. That would be my.

only note. But if you're if you are if. you are very very happy in your life, you will you will laugh your head off. It's really really good. It's really. good. >> Right, we will be back on Thursday with. a Q&A and our bonus episode this week. Richard, special series. >> It is another World Cup office, World. Cup of TV theme tunes. Uh I'm joined by. um the brilliant Bella Hull, who I first. worked with on Have I Got News for you. And I immediately just thought, "Oh, you're going to be a huge star. She's. great on this." and Ivo Graham who I. love and Ivo is has a very similar brain.

to me in terms of he if you want to put. eight things up against each other Ivo. is very much. >> he will fight to the death. >> Yeah. So we did a few together and and. and TV themes is the first. Thanks. everyone for for your feedback on on. those shows. They were a lot of fun. Well because it's I I know it's sort of. a World Cup but you just get to talk. about all it's just a it's just a. vehicle for talking about interesting. things and interesting people. So, I. hope you enjoy that. Members, if you are. not a member, uh you can join at uh the. restenter entertainment.com. Uh we'd love to have you, but you don't. have to. You absolutely don't have to.

But otherwise, >> see you on Thursday. >> See you on Thursday. [music]. >> [music].