Have Gucci Made The World’s Worst Film?

[Music]. Hello and welcome to this episode of The. Rest is Entertainment with me, Marina. Hyde, >> and me, Richard Osman. Hello, Marina. >> Hello, Richard. How are you? >> I'm I'm very well. So, it's Listen, I'm. just pulling the curtain back briefly. It's sort of 9:00 on a Monday morning, and I don't wish to reopen the Spotify. snack drawer annals, but uh what have. you just eaten before before we went on. air? I've had my breakfast, but I've. also had a packet of pork scratchings.

>> Yeah. Some sort of off brandand pork. scratchings as well. >> Yeah. Like four grams. The fat on the. front that you know they contains no. carbohydrate. It's like Yes, but it is a. pork. I mean, ultimately it's a pork. scratching that I'm eating at 8:55. >> Yeah. It's the sort of pork scratching. you'd see on Dragon's Den. >> Yeah. >> What are we talking about this week? >> We're in the middle of fashion weeks, uh, Richard, and we're talking about. there wasn't a Gucci fashion show this. time. Uh they have a new designer at the. helm who is beyond Zoolander and they. had a 30 minute film which we're going. to talk about. >> I have to say I had not heard of this.

gentleman. I'd obviously not heard of. this film. I have now heard of him. I. have watched this film. I am very very. very much looking forward to talking. about it. It's quite something. >> There's quite a lot there. >> We're also going to talk about Chicken. Shop Dates. >> Oh, >> why it's been a huge hit, what it means. for talent, all that kind of stuff. And. we're also going to talk about Critters, a new animation that's being made that's. got something very significant about it. that might just blow everything apart. Anyway, we'll get to that bit in the. second half. >> That's really good. You're really. learning that sort of um not not giving.

so much, >> you know, just saying wait. Oh my. goodness. And you will not believe. number seven on this list. >> One of the things you said to me while I. was eating the scratchings was that I. was unproducible. And. >> look what you made me do. >> And now look at you. >> Now look at me. >> That was really impressive. >> Well, with my producers hat on, I think. we ought to start the podcast now. Let. me talk to you about Gucci and Gemini. Right, we're in the middle of all the. fashion weeks. And um Gucci.

traditionally shows in Italy at Milan. Fashion Week, but this time it didn't. have a fashion show. It had a 30 minute. movie fictional with a whole story you. know directed by Spike Jones and Helina. Rain. It stars Deme Moore, Edward. Norton, Ed Harris, Kiki Palmer, Elliot. Page, Alia Shawcat, >> Kendall Jenner. >> Kendall Jenner. Yeah. And so instead of. a fashion show, they had this premiere. and all the stars sort of turned up and. then they went in and they watched this. movie. Gucci has a new designer at the.

helm, a guy called Demnner and um he. launched his own label originally and. then he went to Balenciaga. Gucci is. owned by Curring which is a luxury brand. sort of umbrella and they're the biggest. brand under that thing and they get. mentioned on the earnings call and their. sales have been doing really really. badly. Okay, so they need to have a. strong message with this guy out of the. gate. There's a hilarious New York Times. pre profile of Demar which I strongly. recommend reading. He's with Nicole. Kidman. They each have their they've.

only just met each other. They each have. their hands on the other person's heart. and they stay like that silent staring. at each other for 2 minutes. It is her. preferred way of connecting with. someone. Apparently. >> when you say connecting with somebody. that she'll do that in the street if you. go up to her and say I'm a big fan. >> I think her bodyguard will take you will. cut you down like a sythe. I think. >> I bet that's her actual. >> I think. I think you're okay. He has compared his. job on previous occasions to dem Christ. carrying the cross. That one of the. fashion shows I thought these models had. to sort of wade through I mean what.

looked like slurry. It was absolutely. mad looking absolutely horrendous and. ill and there were horrible things like. big piles of mud Kanye West. Um this is. before the descent into performative. Nazism but he they had to sort of. encounter him along the c. >> he is very very avong guard. Well, that. but he's he is a genius at marketing. Yeah. And when he joined Balenciaga, revenue was $350 million and when he. left it was two billion. Okay. So, let's. talk about the film because that's why. we're talking about this.

>> It's called The Tiger. >> It's called The Tiger. It appears to be. based on some central question like if. you're in a room with a tiger, would you. try and sort of fight it or let it. devour you? I have to say the stabs at. Profoundity are desperate. >> Yes. It's set in a a slightly kind of a. near future, an imagined future where. Deme Moore is a Gucci. >> She's a barber Gucci. Yeah. >> She's and she runs Gucci, but she she. was also chief executive of California. Gucci had bought California at this. point.

>> Her children, >> her children, Elliot Page, who's her. sort of chief exec, Edward Norton, who. is her stepson by a previous marriage. who believes in the rapture and we're. all about to get um picked up by aliens. Ed Harris turns up as a Vanity Fair. journalist. >> Yeah, Vanity Fair still matters in this. >> Yes, it's funny, isn't it? I mean I mean. AI AI has taken over in the entire. world, but still a Vanity Fair. journalist is is on enormous. >> It still matters. I mean, it matters. again cuz let's face it, it doesn't mean. Vanity Fair isn't what it was.

>> I wonder if you're the only person in. Britain who has said Vanity Fair is not. what it used to be within minutes of. eating a bag of pork scratches. >> Yeah. >> So, she's in the beautiful house. The. family all come for a meal. Everyone. takes some sort of mild hallucinogenic. >> They have good and bad trips. There's. like conversations about money, uh, style, taste, >> life, >> meaning, >> what is fashion, what are clothes, >> what would you do in a room with a. tiger? >> All of what they were wearing is were.

the clothes in your collection. That's. that's the that's the point, isn't it? So, instead of a catwalk, >> all of the family are wearing the fake. family are wearing the clothes. and he. showed it at Milan Fashion Week and they. all turned up again in the clothes and. they had um and Gwyneth Poutro other. people. I mean I have to say more people. turned up to that than you would get to. a premium. This is the thing that most. people have tal this is the bro breakout. of all the fashion weeks. What's. fascinating about it is that we've. talked about this how many times before. when you can get people to do your. publicity for free. They used to spend.

they've obviously spent a lot of money. on this because they've got big stars. and they've got big direct very big. directors because in the end ads whilst. beautiful some people flick past them. In fact, a lot of people flick past. them. By the way, the clothes in this. there's not really a coherent theme to. any of it at all. This is sort of. memeable. If it's not memeable, what's. does it even work? And as I say, lots of. these brands are in trouble and they've. got to find a way pseudo organic moments. where everyone feels like, "Oh, hang on. It would be really fun if I tagged. myself and said I was last snob or.

whoever it is. Like by the way, everyone's doing that. They already know. that you're going to do that. >> You could interview Deme about this. You. could interview Ed Harris. You could I. don't know. You could interview the. directors. >> I've got a couple of questions for them. for sure. >> Yeah. >> Why did you do this? I'm assuming a they. got paid and b like Gucci give them. clothes, right? And that's probably. nice. This some actors love getting. clothes, right? That's that's by some. actors. You think I think the your. favorite thing about acting is that you. get given clothes afterwards. >> Well, as we discussed when we went out. on Friday night, which a lot of rich.

people just cannot stand to pay for. things. You could use your salary to buy. the stuff. >> But now people are saying, "Oh, lots of. um actors on the awards ceremony circuit. are wearing stuff that you haven't yet. seen on the catwalks." And that's. because why wouldn't you put it on an. actor who someone's going to talk about. and you know and you see oh my goodness. you've got a real amazing look at the. can film festival and then we're going. to later see that was it was totally. sacrosanked the debut of the fashion. collection it of the fashion show it's.

not anymore because you need those. cultural moments like all of these. things you might have felt different. about that kind of selling out in the. '9s people now don't feel the same about. so-called selling out that you've got. generations who've grown up being. advertised to all the time around the. things they're watching or in the middle. of them just like with a a kind of rude. stop. You've got to watch an advent. carry on. The idea of product placement. is such an antiquated term to that. generation. >> I'm still from the TV generation where. you'd have to put a letter P in the. corner of the screen if you you know if. there was product placement in.

something. And now this whole, as you. say, there's really really a talent. behind the camera and in front of the. camera. There's no one's dressing up the. fact that it's anything other than a. Gucci advert. Right at the beginning, we. see that the people are called Gucci. everyone is dressed in Gucci and that. that seems to be absolutely fine. No one. seems to mind about that. It gives me. some hope for our belleaguered content. industry. So the phenomena here is adult. which is these days brands have to. create product. They have to create.

their own content that people will. willingly watch and willingly share. >> They have to create the vibes. It almost. doesn't quite matter what the thing is. But if you ask what is fashion, it's. some what what is it? It's something. that's in the air. It's wanting to be. part of something. It's a sort of. compulsion. >> You you will rarely go a day on. television without there being a. documentary which is behind the scenes. at M&S or Asda at Christmas or you know. all of the supermarkets have branded. content on channels which they are part.

funding as well. This is this is the. world that all of these brands have to. get into. And at one end of it, you have. the tiger with Dememore Moore and Ed. Norton and this absurdness and on the. other hand you have Poundshot Wars. But. it's the same thing. It's about brands. and it's about brands understanding that. you cannot put just a stationary advert. in a newspaper or even online these. days. No one's click you know people are. clicking off clicking off after 5. seconds. It is about creating something.

that people are watching through choice. sharing through choice. And this world. now where you will not find a brand who. does which does not have a content. division. Now you will not find a brand. who isn't employing agencies to make. them content which are designed not to. go out as bumper adverts or not to go. out as print adverts but to go out as. pieces of content which can be shared by. other human beings. That's that. industry. Now the one good thing about. it is I think is someone's got to make. all of that stuff. and coming from an.

industry where people are losing their. jobs, those are the people who are very. very very good at making it. >> and it's so shallow because like all of. these things I actually read a really. interesting article the um the other. week which I'll try and find and put in. the show notes. I can't about how. everything all interior design trends. now have just had to become a sort of. two-word tag and they're not re you know. because people want to just tag and make. every single aesthetic simply. communicable in two words which is an. antithesis of depth and it's not about.

sort of deeply understanding people. It's just like a sort of it's like these. little glib postmodern jokes you're like. oh I get it I get it I get it. It's all. it's scroll culture and there's no depth. to it at all. And. >> but that's what advertising has always. had to be necessarily. You've got 30. seconds to get, you know, you're making. a a vacuum cleaner in the same way that. five other companies are and you've got. to get across a vibe, a two-word vibe as. to why this would be the one you buy. tomorrow. And but now that's writ large. across these sort of the big works of.

art. >> But if you're saying that it could get. then then then it will demean it because. the depth of that. Yes, it will. >> because the generation growing up now. have grown up with that and they'll have. fun with it and they'll play with that. They they they understand that perfectly. well and they will make things that play. on that and they will bend the culture. to what they would like it to be which. has always been the way. you know, we. absolutely um we we're a a product of. the sort of television and the sort of. advertising that that that happened in. the ' 50s and ' 60s and '7s and you.

know, we were absolutely informed by. that and we made our programs in. reference to that and you know the. pendulum swings you know one way or. another and this generation will make. extraordinary things I suspect with the. client's own money but that speak to the. climate in which they grew up. I don't. think that will be possible. And I think. that I'm actually going to recommend. something when we get to the. recommendation section. >> Is it pork scratchings? >> Because by the way, we've been paid a. lot and I don't think anyone would. notice that we've been paid quite a lot.

of money by the sport scratchings people. this morning. >> I can't even remember their name. It's. like a fake company. It's not a real. company. None of the people in the snap. basket. You've never heard their name. before. They all feel like somebody just. left Eaton and their dad knew a venture. capitalist and they their dad. >> dad is a venture capitalist. >> Yes. And he said you can you can run. your pork scratching company for 2 years. and then you have to get a job. >> and then you have to come and work at my. venture capital firm. I think it's. interesting. I think the proof will be. in whether Dem is able to revive the.

fortunes of Gucci and make people and I. think to some extent I mean it's quite a. good start in that just by doing this. one thing. It's my by far the most. talked about thing and because lots of. people thought is he actually any good? I don't know if he's actually he's very. very good at marketing. Oh my god, he's. ridiculous. He's ridiculous at marketing. at verality at understanding that kind. of essential. >> He's a very interesting guy. The more I. read about him, the more I sort of liked. him. He's he's he's.

a particular worldview and and he gets. he gets results and I you have to admire. that. the um can I um the two directors. who made the film there just a great. quote I'm not saying they took it. seriously but um I think this is in. Vanity Fair actually it might might have. been in the New New Yorker but the. interviewer said what was it like having. two people direct a film um Spike Jones. first we did a kind of mind meld a kind. of six week meditation like 8 hours a. day to foster non-verbal communication I. recommend it for any kind of.

collaboration. >> maybe they had their heart hand on the. heart for 8 hours a day instead of 2. minutes. >> but we What a lightweight Nicole Kidman. is. >> We live in an absolutely absurd world. It is mental. The the tiger it is. called. You can you can find it on. YouTube. The tiger. >> Find it everywhere. >> Do let us know how quite how far you. make it through. And it's. >> join us in the completists club. >> Exactly. We will be sending out badges. to anyone who can get all the way. through. >> Shall we go to a break?

>> Um yes we shall. >> What are we going to be talking about. afterwards? chicken shop date, which is. uh I'd say an entirely different. proposition to the Gucci Tiger film. It. might be the exact inverse of it. >> Quite right. Okay, see you after the. break. [Music]. >> This episode is brought to you by Sky, where you can watch unmissable shows, including the final farewell of the. award-winning Sky original comedy, Brassic. >> Seven series later, the gang from Holly. are bowing out, still chasing schemes.

with full conviction. Brassic charges. through its biggest challenge yet. Like. a group that never learned the meaning. of Last Orders. >> It's chaos with a curtain call. Joe. Gilgan, Michelle Keegan, Dominic West, big names you might expect on three. entirely different billboards. Yet all. improbably colliding in a northern town. with more calamities than bus routes. >> This time it's old enemies resurfacing, long-lost family reappearing, and. trouble following them at every turn. But rather than an ending, it feels like. a sendoff true to form. Messy, riotous, and impossible mistake by anyone else.

They're leaving the stage the way icons. should with a proper bang, a finale. stitched together with mischief, misfits, and just enough mayhem to feel. like Holly to the end. Watch the final. farewell of Brassic now on Sky with new. episodes weekly. Requires relevant Sky. TV subscription. >> Welcome back everybody. Now we're going. to talk about 10 years of chicken shop. dates. >> Yes, 10 years old chicken shop dates. It's when you looked at what the future.

content was going to be, I didn't think. it was going to be quite so poultry. based. But with this and hot ones, the. two of the big formatted bits of YouTube. content, so people who don't know. chicken shop date, this media demold. who's a actor, comic, writer, and she. takes interviewees on a date in various. London chicken shops, very very garishly. lit, and interviews them over chicken. nuggets. the the light conceit is she's. looking for love and she's taking people.

for a date and this is a funny place to. take uh people for a date but she has. now been going 10 years it's huge she's. got three and a half million subscribers. she did one recently with Andrew. Garfield which went wildly viral that. got kind of 10 million views and firstly. absolute fair play to Amelia. Demoldenberg for putting this together. and running this for 10 years and being. quite so successful but I'm interested. in it in terms of what it means for cuz. she started it when she was 21 on.

YouTube. Started it as a. >> student. She it grew out of a um a youth. club magazine. >> Yeah. >> column she'd you know that she'd had um. the idea of sort of being a a character. I suppose looking for love and going on. dates with with people. >> and chicken shots being a very very bad. place to have a date instinctively. understood that was funny and and you. know you start interviewing people in in. in that context and it it builds from. there. now in every other generation. So. when she's 21, she decides to do this as. a YouTube thing. So she's filming it as.

well. Very first one with was with with. a a British rapper called Gets, who she. recently did a revisit with, which is. which is really really worth watching. >> Uh and if you've not seen it, it is I. think she records for 45 minutes or so, but the the actual episodes are about 8. minutes, 10 minutes, occasionally a. little bit longer. heavily edited, her. interviewing somebody, a little bit of. flirting, uh lovely kind of background. stuff of people frying chips and things. It's got it's got very. >> interstitial stuff is like fries going.

down and stuff which I love. >> It's got a very strong visual identity. And off the back of this is so huge. She. is now hugely in demand with brands. She. does lots of um you know, red carpet. >> She loves doing she really likes doing. red carpet which she's sort of made for. >> Yeah, she's amazing. She's amazing at. it. He was the sort of official Oscars. social media person, but she made them. put and red carpet interviewer on her. job title and she's done lots and lots. of those. The Andrew Garfield story is. is sort of amazing. You know, they met a.

couple of times on red carpets and it I. mean there is you know I always you want. to believe that she'll find love with. him. >> Yes. >> Um and. >> there is there is a palpable chemistry. >> Oh my god, it's amazing. It's like and. someone people were saying, "Oh my god, this is literally the best romcom of the. year and it's a 12minute film or. something in a chicken shop." But she's. that's quite a recognizable sort of. heroine, isn't it? There's something. very much about that episodic. >> that reminded me when I was sort of. thinking about it a bit about something. like, you know, the original Bridget. Jones column or something like, you. know, she's someone who's looking for. love.

>> Um, it's a persona that what she is on. camera. >> Well, that's the thing about a couple of. things about it because it it does make. you question. So, she A media demolds. very funny. So, she she's a a comic. talent. She is a comic talent and she is. not working on television. She's not. working on legacy television. That's not. a thing that she went into and it's not. a thing she's particularly interested in. pivoting to. And a couple of ways of. looking at it which are well then it. means that legacy media is, you know, is.

crazy. They've lost their minds if they. don't have a place for this. But Chicken. Shop date, she does one a month and. they're 8 minutes long. So if you're on. Legacy Television, you you can't do. anything with that. You can't do. anything with something that's eight. minutes long that's on once a month. So. it's not like oh my god you missed that. or you missed chicken shop date. You. think what what we missed this eight. minutes once a month. Of course we. didn't miss it. We can't we we don't. have a place for that. But if you are a. creative and I've always said the. fascinating thing with any creative.

especially at the start of their career. they they think what's the possible. shortest journey between me having an. idea and people seeing that idea. And if. you wanted to do Chicken Shop date as a. television program, I would say probably. 2 years between having the idea and it. being on and the 50 people have given. you their opinion on what it should be, another 50 people have told you who your. first guest should be. Another 50 people. are in the edit. But if you're a media. demoldenberg or anyone from her. generation or this next generation, you. can go, "Oh, no, listen. I did it as a. column. There's cheap ways to do it. It.

costs about six grand an episode. I can. fund it. I can make it. and the thing. that I have in my brain can go straight. to viewers. And that's exactly what. she's done. She's created the thing that. she wants. So, it has that authenticity, which is the reason it's been such a big. hit. One of the key points about this. lovely route to market now and the lack. of gatekeeping and this sort of. community is good stuff has time to rise. to the top. If you get it right, you're. rewarded. And I think Amelia. Demoldenberg more than sort of anybody.

only because she's British and she's. from a particular generation shows what. has changed for young creatives and. certainly if I was a young creative now. the avenue that I would be going down. which is doing your own stuff finding a. way to monetize it. >> I totally agree and I think it's very. interesting how how it's changed those. traditional forms of interviewing. I was. trying to think when I knew were going. to talk about this. So, I was thinking, when was the last time I saw like a. really epic moment on a.

>> legacy interview show? I mean, like that. Andrea Garfield thing is so epic. Um, and Sher and things like that she's. done, but she's also done lots of things. and you think, gosh, something really. amazing comes through in this. But when. was the last time you kind of maybe I'm. just not watching enough of them, but I. don't really remember those things. And. I think it's really interesting that um. sorry to talk about the US, but I think. it's, you know, they're so market. driven, those network late night shows, they've all incorporated essentially. stuff from this type of YouTube. sensibility, okay? Things that are meant. to go viral and that are short. So.

you've got Seth Meers does um day. drinking with Seth Meyers, which is so. he'll, you know, he'll go out with the. guests and he'll get drunk with him and. and it it's not happening on the set, you know, it's a sort of designed to go. like that. Obviously, there was carpool. karaoke. Um Jimmy Fallon's got that. thing the is it the like the wheel of. musical impressions or whatever. They're. all trying to do these little things. that are left field um and that are. designed to disrupt really the the the. traditional interview process that they. are kind of the masters of because they.

run those shows and they sit behind a. desk and that's what those shows have. always done. So they're trying to. disrupt themselves now within their own. thing in order to go viral so that. they're like these people who I mean. we're a billion years off having a late. night show. >> But if you're Seth Meers or if you're. Jimmy Fallon or any of these people, you. are feeding a machine that eats money. Yeah. you know, if you have to have. these viral things because someone is. paying you an absolute fortune to make. these shows and someone is, you know, and the cost of making them is huge and.

you're working for a corporation that. needs to return value to its. shareholders. If you are just a regular. 21-year-old creative, you can do these. things and you're doing it for 5,000,000. episodes and playing by entirely. different you get the questions in. advance. the publicist. You know, the. reason someone goes on a chat show, an. actor often to who is maybe not, you. know, who often says other people's. words and then they come out with these. perfect anecdotes is because they know. what they're going to get asked and.

everyone sort of knows that and it's. phony and the whole point of Amelia de. Moldenberg's thing is that I mean some. of the questions and she deliberately. edits it to make it look even more. awkward and even more you know she'll. let them talk but then that anecdote. will just she'll she'll happily kill her. darlings and unless it's funny it. doesn't get in and you can edit in a. different way than you can if you're. sitting down with someone opposite the. desk on a late night show and doing the. normal interview or even on the sofa. All of those things she deliberately has.

disrupted. They don't know what's coming. next. She she you know when you hear her. say it you almost think she doesn't know. what's coming next and sometimes it's. improvised. She's incredibly well. prepared actually. >> That's the key which is which is the. same with Sean Evans on Hot Ones, you. know. >> Oh my god. I mean his research is. ridiculous. The key is look ramshackle. but do the work and that's that's always. been the key on any of those great. things like Graeme Norton. The reason. Graeme Norton is a brilliant chat show. is he has done all of the work but then. he sort of throws it away and pretends. he has and that that's the absolute key.

The TV producer and me looks at her. doing 10 years which is very very. impressive and you can see her thinking. and you hear her talking about it bit. sometimes about what's next which is. interesting. She's 10 years into this. what is quite a new profession. and the. idea of being a YouTuber and being. someone who essentially is is their own. brand and and their own creator and her. things you say they're 8 minutes long. and they're once a month and you know is. it's harder for her to do like a. halfhour chat show because she is. slightly still playing a character cuz.

the very very beginning of this the. genesis of this when she's 17 is oh I'm. slightly going to take one step aside. from who I am and slightly pretend I'm. doing a date I am doing a date but I'm. also pretending I'm doing a date and so. she's never quite been able to exactly. herself. The bits where you see her. being herself, which is you see more and. more often these days in the in the. interviews, she's unbelievably good at. And at some point, she will work out, oh, do you know what? I can actually. just be me. >> Well, I heard she's writing a romcom. And I wonder if that's true. And she. said it's in the chicken shop date.

space. And that made me think, I mean, sorry, this is a real sidebar and we'll. have to talk about this on a completely. separate item another time, but are. YouTube going to do like YouTube Premium. where you're starting to have because if. she does do a romantic comedy, I mean, maybe YouTube would release it in. theaters for one week for reasons as. previously discussed, but or or does it. just does she do something on YouTube? Are they actually going to event because. all of these people you can see like Mr. beast saying, "Oh, I want to go to. Amazon cuz I want I want to do this game. show and I want to do things that they.

still slightly believe legacy media or. films or whatever it is." They they. still all have that hankering for. something a bit like that to some. extent. Are they just going to bring it. all under the YouTube umbrella and. they're going to have something like. YouTube? I've say YouTube Premium. I. know you can have YouTube Premium, but. what I mean is, is there going to be in. some of that as well? Because you know. we already said that they won the. streaming awards Netflix but now their. ma obviously we know their ma major. competitor is YouTube and as I said Ted. Sarendas got really prickly when asked. about it cuz that's the one time I've.

ever seen him lose his call because he. knows it's coming and I wonder whether. they will move into something like that. >> Yeah. Well, I think that's production. costs. I think it'll sort of happen the. other way around, which is production. costs are going to absolut are going to. come down so much with new technologies. and and AI and things like that that. it's going to make things look premium. at a at a much cheaper price point. But. if I'm immediate demold, the one thing I. feel when I see her is is it it makes me. feel quite tired because I think my god, she's had to graft. Uh and it's all on.

her and it's her company and I know. she's got a a very small team, >> but it's she has been selling herself. every month. It's this new thing. How do. we promote this? How do we promote that? And the one thing you have in legacy. media is somebody else is looking after. a lot of that stuff for you. And. somebody is paying you and you know what. you're getting paid and it doesn't. matter if you get past half the ratings. this week that you did last week. the. money is still coming in. So, she's had. 10 years now of having to do that. Not. only doing the creative stuff, but doing. the business stuff and and recognizing. that all of her money depends on who she.

is, which is quite a scary. >> Yeah. >> place to be, I would say. And also that. they say I think this is changing. They. say that the median age at which people. sort of slightly change from, you know, watching their screens to watching the. big TV is kind of 27, late 20s or. something like that. and she's got a an. audience who's grown up with her who are. sort of in that demographic. So, it's do. they follow her? My view would be they. absolutely will follow her that that. median age will go up and up and up and. up and maybe they're watching things on.

the big screen, but they're watching. YouTube on the big screen. But I think. she's like a perfect example of doing. something very very smart at the age of. 21 10 years ago that other people were. not doing and now everybody is doing. but she's got a 10 year head start and I. think honestly absolute hats off to her. for making. >> so completely charming and wonderful and. a real British success story. exactly. that. Making great content, doing it on. our own terms and uh I yeah it's um. here's to another 10 years of it.

>> and you know maybe romance with Andrew. Garfield. I just. >> That would be nice. >> That would be nice. >> The dream. >> Now talking of um of AI and lower. production costs. We want to talk about. a a little animated film called. Critters. >> Critters. Now Open AI is making a movie. It had to happen. Um Critters was a. little movie. It was it was a short. written and directed by a guy called. Chad Nelson who's a sort of creative at. OpenAI which I think is uh interesting. and but also somehow you know.

potentially very sinister department. Anyhow, and the premise of this little. short was that a David Atenburgh type. voiceover comes to a jungle or a forest. of little woodland creatures which who. are you know they're not they're not. recognizable. They're not squirrels or. anything. They're kind of kind of like. pixar creatures. >> I'm going to call them critters. >> Critters. They're critters. >> with a z. By the way, if in case it's. not obvious, it is Critters with a Zed. We listen, we were all assuming that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I you could hear the zed. It was a hard. Z. Um so they combined the visuals from.

Dah E with. >> which is which is open AI. >> with their old one. Yeah. Um with human. voice actors and they showed it at lots. of festivals and then he later. remastered it with Sora which is um kind. of the next generation version of it. And they are now going to use this as. the basis for or jumping off point for a. feature film. Um, which uses AI. throughout pre-production, production, and post. It will have human voice.

actors. Um, and it they're doing it with. Vertigo Films who are based in London. And two of the people who wrote. Paddington in Peru are going to write. it. And what's interesting about it, well, lots of things are interesting. about it, but they're sort of saying, "Oh, in the way that Toy Story. revolutionized animation, this is like. the next level of that.". >> And and also they're saying, "Oh, don't. forget when Toy Story came out, everyone's going, "Oh my god, CGI, you. know, we want traditional animation.". And again, it's it's exactly the same as. that. It's just it's just a new. technology. >> They're this is what they're saying. But.

what it means obviously is that. animation as we know is incredibly. expensive and it takes a very very long. time to do even with computers even when. they're not drawing the cells pain by. hand as they used to in the heyday of. Walt Disney. Um so it's going to affect. timing and labor. Now what's fascinating. about it is they say we're going to make. it in 9 months which for an animated. film is I mean you know like I think. something like Coco for Pixar took which. I love by the way took seven years.

Elio, which um for Pixar, it took five. years. They kind of knew they had a. turkey, which was I had to move the. release date so it didn't interfere with. an earnings call and it involved. thousands of people and um it it was. their lowest opening ever. It probably. cost them $200 million without marketing. and it was their lowest opening ever for. Pixel. Nobody saw it. It was like. Pixar's worst ever. >> So this is 9 months. >> They want to $30 million. >> $30 million. Okay. That sounds like a. lot. >> Yeah. Well, they're going to they're.

going to take it um they want to take it. to can, so we'll see if French cineasts. have something to say about that. >> I think they'll be fine about it. >> They're also relaxed. >> Um and um maybe they'll find a. distributor there. Maybe they'll already. have one. Um well, the family genre, as. we know, is doing brilliantly at the box. office. Kids sort of keep the lights on. in cinemas to some extent, but. animation, original animation is not. It's it original animation is all of. this stuff that's doing really well is.

known IP or it's based on video games or. um it's sequels or whatever like Inside. Out 2, but actually animation original. animation is in trouble. Um and films. are they take so long to do. Anyone who. wants to just do a simple animation. story, it's almost an to them because. they're spending so much money on them. they take so long that the idea and. actually you know lots of people who. I've talked to people who have written. quite deep into these and then just come.

off them and said I can't do it anymore. because everything has to be so detailed. like they don't leave anything to chance. because it's so expensive they've become. these things that by virtue of how. expensive and how long they take. >> every sort of. >> and again that that idea that if you're. a creative what you want is the shortest. possible route between your joke and and. an audience and something animation. It's the exact opposite of that. >> How can you make a zeitgeisty film? How. can you do something exuberant, something that just. >> unless you're South Unless you're South. Park and you you're deliberately low.

>> and that's different. And that's TV and. you know h how can you have lowbudget. indie hits in animation? You can't and. they they don't exist. >> Um. >> they're about to. >> they're about to Well, yeah, cuz this is. going to cost $30 million. Another. interesting thing actually in Scott. Galloway's uh news um ProfG G newsletter. recently he compared the the cast and. crew of of Fantastic 4 with um the staff. of a number of public companies. There. are 3,271.

strong crew of Does it and I appreciate. they're going to hopefully go on to. other work but like Coinbase the crypto. exchange has only slightly more than. that. Like they have so many more. employees than Lyft, than Trip Advisor, than Reddit, >> than like asset management companies. You know, Mr. Beast employs employs 50. people. >> Yeah. >> So, you're thinking this is such a mad. industry where there are that many. people on this. And also, you're. thinking, hang on a second, a lot of. those people on Fantastic 4 are in.

effect and they're do in post-prouction. So, people think computers are making. films already. They're very, very used. to superhero things. um and animation. films that they believe are essentially. made by computers. Vertigo films, they. say it's humanled, but it's AI assisted. And they are, as I say, they're casting. it as a sort of experiment to say, who. knows, does this $30 million work? Can. we do it quickly? Can we get it done in. that time? Um and I think they're also. saying that um all the artists involved.

will have something in the back end, which is we haven't heard that since the. Clinton administration. vision. >> I think that AI is going to take over. animation. It just is. And lots of the. big studios are not able to make a fully. AI animated film at the moment for lots. of you know for political reasons. >> and guild related reasons. >> and guild related reasons. So you need a. smaller player to break the seal which. is what's happening here. So Vertigo. could. >> you talk about the little old under dog.

open AI the little studio that could. >> the little studio that could but you. know that's why you know oh no Vertigo. making open AI aren't making it think. okay um because somebody has to do that. as soon as someone's done it and then. you you know rest assured there will be. so critters is the first one we'll talk. about there will be hundreds of these. things and there's already hundreds of. animated shorts I mean you know you. can't move for them but these feature. films you it will look very peculiar in. five years time and people look back and. Sorry, why are you why were you talking. about AI making a animated feature film?

I mean, that's they make they make all. of them now, but this is sort of the. first cab cab off the rank. So, the. second that this is acceptable, the. legacy studios will have no other choice. but to say, look, we can't we have to to. compete on price now, we also have to. use this technology, we have to use AI%. >> Um, and so that's all they're waiting. for really. They're waiting for this to. become industry standard from some of. the smaller players before they can jump. in. There is also an endless supply of. money. The one thing we know now is I. think it's an absurd amount of venture.

capital money is going to AI at the. moment. I mean trillions and trillions. and trillions there. There is a huge. amount of money here to make content to. proof of concept all of those types of. things. So AI is going to take over. large bits of the entertainment. business. Certainly um this this would. be the first one. So it is a question of. how do you then protect the human um. element of it? And funny enough, Chad. Nelson, the guy you were talking about. who made the very first Critters inside, >> he's consulting, I mean, he's heavily.

involved in the in the feature version. >> And so, he, as you say, is a creative. inside a big AI company. I I was. watching an interview with him that I. think had 43 viewers views, but it was. >> one of them was me, I bet I found it. very interesting. Uh, he was he it was. like poster festival. He was talking to. someone. uh and he was saying look I my. job is he said when you work this. closely with AI you realize quite how. similar everything it produces is he. said I look at all this stuff I feel.

like I'm drowning in a he describes it. as a sea of sameness and that's what AI. gives you and he said my job is always. to sit in rooms with people whose job is. to code and to create these things my. job is to essentially make this good and. my job is essentially to make this. humor. My my job is to make this funny. My job is to take this in in in in in a. human direction. And that would be the. optimistic view of where this goes. And. Critters, as you say, has got um two two. of the guys who wrote on um Paddington.

in Peru is there's going to be lots of. writers for hire who are doing these. things in the in the near future. And. you know my view has always been in. editing in writing all these AI things. there is an intangible thing that is not. something you can simply copy from what. has gone before it's it's a you just a. human brain in the room thinking how how. is an audience feeling so it's I think. it's inevitable and we have to try and. protect as much humanity within it as as. possible but the real thing is that.

there is a still a massive unanswered. copyright. theft thing going on here. I mean, >> all the time, all of this has been is. based on stolen work. >> All of it is stolen. So, forget for a. minute everything else than what's going. to happen and we'll work out how that. happens. It is stolen. So, it's. >> I agree. But don't you think I mean, do. you sense any appetite with any of the. governments to do anything about this? They don't care. I get I get I get. approached almost every day by lawyers.

saying we we're going to launch a suit. against you know these um big um AI. companies and quite rightly by the way. people. people have so you're just trying to. work out which is the the right one. lawyer to go with. >> well no just the right way to do it. what's the right approach you know who. are the right companies to sue cuz they. they are going to have to pay because. they did steal it I mean it is. absolutely believe there are laws in. every country. >> going to get any help off the. governments. So it has to be legal. >> Exactly that the government's quite you.

know and if I was a government would I. really want to I mean that's the problem. these days these companies are so. captured. >> and yeah they they've got enough uh. problems but so yeah I it it is stolen. theft has occurred and creatives who've. you know it's all very saying AI is. making this. No AI is looking over every. bit of animation ever made and copying. it. But if you look at something if okay. let's look at as an example which you. haven't probably talked about but the. Ellison's who bought Paramount and now.

want to buy Warner Brothers Discovery. and and I think it's a strong likelihood. that they will acquire it. >> Yeah. >> You've got Larry Ellison who I I think a. couple of weeks ago became the richest. man in the world. They're always Josie. was always up and down in those top. four, aren't they? Anyway, do you think. he is buying it for his Nepo son who. because they want to be to run a legacy. media studio or do you think they're. trying to do something much bigger? I. think they're trying to do something. much bigger. >> Well, the well well the reason he became. the richest man in the world however. briefly was the huge punts he had taken.

on AI. >> Yeah. And Oracle is I mean so I think. they want to join things up in a much. more significant way. Um and what they. like about Warner obviously is it has a. huge number of franchises. What what. what was as just as a sort of. speculative idea about this in saying. what are they going to do with the fact. they've stolen everything. >> they say say they have Warers and. Paramount together and they start making. the because you're going to be saying. okay well try and make me a demon slayer. here's 30 million by the way I'm the. richest man in the world what's the. difference. >> oh I don't really like it didn't really. work do another one but this is what.

people have been saying all along which. once the thing the films had become too. big to fail really that and yet they did. fail but hugely expensive animations or. hugely expensive kind of studio temple. movies or superhero franchise whatever. it is that doesn't doesn't work out is a. is a very significant problem if you. have a few of them on the books so if. you can try seeding 10 of them and. saying well I don't like this one I. don't like that one or this one you know. go back and do it again you can. constantly adjust these there's nothing.

finished ever about these because you. can just give it another prompt and it. can change it slightly yeah the same. afternoon you got the notes what happens. within Paramount where they say, "Well, what we're just we've only used. Paramount and Warner stuff. Um, why. shouldn't we be able to um train it on. this?" And then we're going to I think. that's what will happen. And the. employees also feel like, well, where. else am I going to go if I don't work. for these companies? There's smaller and. smaller number of studios that still. exist. They're all going to fold because. it's Hollywood and they just care about.

the money. It's up to the artists to to. to push back and that's probably the. last frontier because it's not going to. be the executives. The hope is that um. we have a sea change and people do do. want human connection and human art and. there will always be brilliant. creatives. There there's never a. generation that has fewer brilliant. creatives than another generation ever. There's no oh well this generation are. not creative. There's always brilliant. creatives and they will always be. looking for something to do and they. will always be looking to find their own. niche and as production costs.

plummet they will be able to make great. art as well. As you say, if you're Larry. Edison and David Edison, it's it's it's. a essentially a it's going to be a. license to print money. But if you are a. true great artist, hopefully there will. be options open to you. Either way, you. know, we're talking about this. >> equally, you might be able to make a fun. animation that's zeitgeisty and that. doesn't cost. >> $200 million without marketing. >> Yeah. I mean, but we're talking about. >> seven years. We're talking about. critters here and people will look back.

on this like the people who sat in the. French cinema and thought the train was. going to come out of the screen. >> at them because we are at the very very. beginning of something that is about to. become absolutely humongously huge and. the money is already baked into it. Everyone's already positioned. themselves. That's what every single. move in Hollywood is about at the moment. is how am I going to take advantage of. the huge cost savings and the huge. marketing savings and the huge research. savings that AI is going to bring me. because it is is going to be an absolute.

boom town. But I hope that the immediia. demolds of this next generation and the. writers and the creators and the artists. also know that there will be enough. people out there who will willingly pay. them to make a different sort of art. And you can see the beginnings of that. industry starting now where people will. fandoms will fund things and that feels. like a there will be a shadow industry. which hopefully will produce some. extraordinary stuff as well. Any.

recommendations this week? I've got two. recommendations. One I meant to make. last week, but I had co and this is for. um an essay, a treatise um um written by. James Marriott on his sub um cultural. capital substack. Lots of people have. talked about this. It it's called the. dawn of the postitate society. It's so. interesting. If you haven't read it, it's a treatise as I say about how sort. of culture is becoming post- literate. We're losing the ability to read, to. understand, and it's all we've all it's.

all been killed and it's traceable to. the smartphone. Um, and you know, it's. making people stupid. This is what I was. thinking about a bit further up the. show, which was I we can see that IQ is. declining. We can see that literacy. >> I can feel it. I can feel mine go. >> And. >> that that substack, by the way, James. Marriott Substack, is one of the few. things that makes me feel like my IQ. might go up a tiny bit. It's so. brilliant. Well, it's full of great. ideas and it's written in a way you. think, oh yeah, I get that. It's so I. that. >> I strongly recommend everybody reads.

this. It's absolutely it's fantastic and. lots of people have talked about it. anyway. It's called the dawn of the post. literate society. My other. recommendation is I we don't talk enough. about like I mean maybe about Nathan. Fielder in this country, but I just. watching the rehearsal which you can. watch on Sky and now it is so amazing. I. mean he's I mean it's obviously a genre. of one. it. I mean, talk about things. that you might not pay people to do in. the future, but it is the most. extraordinary thing. He helps people. deal. Have you seen it? >> Yes, I have seen it. It's very difficult.

to describe what it is. >> He helps people prepare in the most sort. of anal way for um difficult life. moments or conversations. And the level. of pre-planning to like close off all. the different curve balls life might. throw at you for the in a 10-minute. conversation is is beyond. If you. haven't seen it, watch it because I just. think he's so amazing. And if you. haven't seen Nathan for you, which is. his earlier um series, I mean, absolutely brilliant. >> He's sort of in a category of one as. well. >> I mean,

>> so if you if you if you like the first. 20 minutes that you see of him, you've. got an awful lot to enjoy. >> Stay with it. I mean, there's nothing. else like it on telly. Let's put it that. way. >> And I'm heading to I player for their. new series of Freddy Flinttos Field of. Dreams, which is where he takes um young. kids who don't play cricket. This makes. it sound so boring and makes them play. cricket, but it it's Yeah, it's it's. it's about kids and it's about. teenagehood and it's about awkwardness. and it's about love and respect and hope. about him. >> and these days as well. The first series.

wasn't and now it is and you see what. what he's been through. He's he's an. extraordinary presence at at the heart. of this and you see. >> you could see in the first series what. he gave to these kids which was. beautiful. You now also see what they. give to him which is also beautiful. It's a really it's a really wonderful. watch. >> Right, that about wraps us up. We will. be back as always for questions and. answers on Thursday. >> Uh and on Friday for our members, we are. looking into the history of the Muppets. We're literally looking into the history. of everything that happened before they.

got successful, which is which and which. took a really, really, really long time. >> The Muppet origin story. Imagine how. much I like those. >> And there's all sorts of twists and. turns in that as well. If you want to. become a member, add free listening and. so on. um the rest is entertainment.com. You can sign up there. But for everyone. else, we'll see you on Thursday. >> See you on Thursday.

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