Eurovision, Strictly Come Dancing & Quicksand with Richard Osman & Marina Hyde

I think this whole episode last week, I. I said as a joke, let's call it "Marina. is wrong about the best Bond theme.". >> But I was. >> And. and we we we've had an awful lot of. people. >> I know, right? Richard, they're right. >> Oh, really? You've got a mea culpa. Should I tell you someone who wrote in. and listen, lots of people wrote in and. we really appreciate it, but you'll. understand why I'm going to go to this. gentleman first. David Arnold wrote in. >> I'm so sorry, David. >> David Arnold has composed five Bond. themes. He composed the Lana Del Rey. track we talked about last week. David's. answer is this. He said, "My favorite.

Bond song isn't what I think is the. best." He starts with that. He said, "My. favorite, as it was the first Bond I saw. in the cinema, it's always the way, is. You Only Live Twice, written by John. Barry, sung by the one and only Nancy. Sinatra. The best Bond theme, though, according to David." Now, this is. controversial as well, but I cannot mock. him in the same way I mocked you. >> No, you can't. >> because he he's the great genius. >> Uh the best Bond theme is On Her. Majesty's Secret Service, which is an. instrumental. >> Mhm. >> And that's David Arnold saying that. You.

look like you want to argue, but you. can't. >> don't. I'm ashamed of what my. performance last week when I literally. had a mind blank as to. a lot of Bond themes. >> Okay, we will get to yours as well. Another thing that David says that I. think is interesting is that the White. Stripes song Seven Nation Army was Jack. Black's attempt at writing a Bond theme. based on On Her Majesty's Secret. Service. >> I did not know that. Did you know that? >> We have to listen to both of those. No, I didn't know that. So, thank you, David. That's that's amazing. And of. course, um Jack Black eventually did. write a Bond theme for Quantum of of. Solace. Which I would say not as catchy.

as Seven Nation Army, but uh. >> It's only not a catchy movie. >> So, what's your what's your mea culpa? >> Okay, I. I had a sort of mind blank, forgive me. I. I do the one I agree, by the way, that. You Only Live Twice is up there in the. mix. I just think there's something. about I do love all the I mean, maybe. people don't like it so much anymore, but I love all the silhouettes of the. women and the and there's something. about that that vocal which particularly. lends itself to the sort of silhouettes. and the you know sort of.

>> Sure. Now now David Arnold said it, yeah. >> No. I. >> Cuz you were we it started because you. were dissing Live and Let Die. That's. where we started this. >> is a brilliant song, but as I say, I. just don't love it as a I don't I don't. love it cuz I love the song. I think. it's great. But it's not to me a sort of. quintessential Bond theme because I I. prefer the female vocal on a Bond theme. >> We cannot call two episodes in a row. where you're wrong about the best Bond. theme. >> Okay, right. >> So what so what is it that that you did. think you got wrong? >> The Rest Is Entertainment is presented.

by Octopus Energy. Now, celebrity. culture has a way of taking very small. preferences and promoting them until. they require a lot of paperwork. >> Yeah, it's like the first time you ever. go on a show and you say, "Oh, could I. have some sparkling water?" And then. like forever say, "Oh, he has to have. sparkling water. He must have sparkling. water. It's very very important." And. that's what we call the rider. >> The rider. Right. In some cases, the. rider didn't stay sort of practical for. long, you know. It started as a wish. list and then it sort of strayed into a. kind of a hostage note from the ego. There was a point in J. Lo's ego where. she was having like, you know, you know, the white drapes, the white candles, the.

white absolute everything white flowers, white, you know, sofas, everything. Most. people don't actually need a rider in. this life of ours, however, but there is. something reassuring about not having to. specify everything twice or more. >> of my absolute favorite things about. Octopus Energy. If you ring them about. anything, your number is recognized and. you'll go through to a team who deals. with you and have dealt with you before. So yeah, you have a a team. They. recognize your number and you go. [clears throat] through to people who. you don't have to explain the same thing. to 15 times.

>> I think Adele should be at number three. >> Okay. >> Skyfall, which I absolutely love. I love. what Sam Mendes did that with that film. I absolutely love it all and I think it. was a kind of modern and a bit of the. same sort of thing and the huge amazing. singer managing to do something with. something that you know, we feel like we. already know the conventions of. I might. put You Only Live Twice as number one. then. Okay, so number two is Goldfinger. >> So did you did you do number one before. you did number. >> you already knew I was going to maybe. say it. It doesn't matter. >> I didn't know what you were honestly. >> we've established I'm wrong about all of. these things, but Goldfinger, Shirley.

Bassey, there's something about that. Goldfinger that I just think is. maybe that is and it's almost it's such. the sort of quintessential Bond theme in. some ways. >> Okay. And then and then suddenly just. seconds after David Arnold says how much. he loves You Only Live Twice. By the. way, he says it's not the Bond that is. not the best. >> he says that. I mean but you're saying. it is. going to say he's incorrect. I've lost the chance to say anything. about anything about these things, but. yeah, those would be my I don't know. I. didn't want to play favorites with any. of those three to be perfectly honest,

but those are the the three my three my. three favorites. What about you? >> I don't say this often, but you are. absolutely all over the place. >> [laughter]. >> Sorry about that. >> I mean that is quite something. Well, listen, it doesn't matter what I think. because our listeners have been giving. their opinion. We've been asking them to. vote on the best ever Bond theme. So. shall we do that? We'll start with. I'll do the whole top 10. We've got tied. for ninth, No Time to Die, Billie. Eilish, which you said last week was one. of your favorites, and A View to a Kill, Duran Duran. They're both tied ninth.

Eighth, we have All the Time in the. World, Louis Armstrong, not an official. >> No. >> Bond theme, but was at the end of On Her. Majesty's Secret Service, which David. Arnold's opinion is the very very best. Seventh, You Know My Name, Chris. Cornell, from Casino Royale. >> No. >> Okay. Um. sixth, this is even more controversial, I would say, uh GoldenEye, Tina Turner. >> Again? >> No. Fifth, Diamonds Are Forever, Shirley. Bassey. >> Fair enough. Bassey is going to have. that there. >> Fourth, Goldfinger, Shirley Bassey. And.

by the way, these top four get a lot. more votes than than anyone else. Top. three, number three, Live and Let Die, Wings. >> Okay. >> Just. listeners, just so you know, the scorn. that I'm seeing from the. >> the song. I just don't think it's a It's. like a classic Bond theme. >> Okay. Number two, Nobody Does It Better, Carly Simon. >> Mhm. >> But that's I love that song, but that's. not a classic Bond theme. >> No. Hasn't even got it in the title. >> okay. It hasn't got the word in the.

title. >> words in it. Spy Who Loved Me is in the. is in the lyrics, but it's not. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Number one with a I would say far above. number two, Skyfall, Adele. How about. that? So, listen, at least we are. brought together a little bit towards. the end of this absolute mess. Do you want to know what the worst Bond. theme is? Number 25 out of 25? >> What? >> Moonraker, Shirley Bassey. So, there you. go. Moonraker is the is bottom. The Man. with the Golden Gun, Thunderball, Die. Another Day, and Another Way to Die are. at the bottom there.

>> Die Another Day is dreadful. >> Now, funnily enough, we didn't actually. poll on On Her Majesty's Secret Service. cuz I think we polled We Have All the. Time in the World for that. So, David. Arnold sits outside the list, but um so, the best Bond theme is either Skyfall or. On Her Majesty's Secret Service. And now. we all have to listen to it and see if. that's where Seven Nation Army came. from. Listeners, thank you so much for. that. There was There was a lot of. chatter. about that, so we had to do that poll, but it's it feels like everyone's agreed. about Skyfall, and I'm happy cuz Live. and Let Die and Nobody Does It Better. are my favorite two, and they're number.

two and number three. That sort of was a. question, wasn't it? Uh because you. you very much posed a question, which is. >> How wrong can I be? >> [laughter]. >> How wrong can I be? >> How wrong can I actually be? [clears throat]. >> And it turns out very, very wrong. indeed. I was reading all that off the. laptop, which I'm going to give to uh. producer Joey. >> Very good. >> Oh, you almost appeared on camera there, Joey. People wouldn't believe He's like 7 ft. 6. >> He He dwarfs you, absolutely. >> He played the mountain on um on Game of. Thrones, Joey. Um I have a question for.

you, Marina. Oh, this is a fun one. Uh. Alex Howarth. says, "Is there a name for a the. phenomenon where something is much more. common on TV and film than in real life, so people begin to believe that to be. true? And if so, what are your favorite. examples? Food poisoning, for example, my girlfriend is convinced happens to. her weekly despite my protest that it's. really not that common in real life. >> Gosh. >> That's some psychodrama there. >> Yeah, there is some uh I don't think. there is a name for it. Although I. actually started thinking about this. before I came here today and I realized. that I would really quickly get to 100.

examples of this, so I just sort of. stopped. But you will all have your own. ones of these, okay? So, in no. particular order, mistaken identity. Okay, this but this is still something. cuz it is I suppose goes back to I don't. know, Greek drama, but yeah, people tend. not to make mistake people for other. people. People sort of putting the phone. down and then a misun- a. misunderstanding lingering. And you just. feel like, "No, just call them back." Or. just start back again. If they didn't. pick up the phone, just call back again. Something like that. Witnessing a murder. by chance.

Generally, people don't witness murders. and so, you know, at in general, >> [sighs and gasps]. >> all forms of. >> That's like saying going to the moon, though. >> Yeah. >> they they make films about murder. >> They do. Yes, they do. But criminal. masterminds with elaborate schemes, really, really elaborate schemes. Because obviously, in real life, crime. is very sloppy and it's not really, you. know, it's often financially motivated. and, you know, impulsive. >> Amnesia for me is a big one. >> Okay. >> that doesn't happen nearly as much as it. does in fiction. There's a lot of.

medical ones. Being unconscious for a. really long time and then waking up and. just sort of being fine like, "Oh, hi, you know, I'm I'm back in the room. after." You would have a massive brain. injury at that point. And it's just. like, it doesn't work like that. Enemies. to lovers. >> Yeah. >> I don't think A lot of these things are. just done to make stories work and it's. really interesting. It doesn't mean that. people don't want to see those things. because there's something very. satisfying about enemies to lovers and. we love the kind of sparring and then. when it, you know, when when they get.

together. We really like it, but I just. don't think it happens that much in real. life, I have to say. But I don't. But people really it's very very. fictionally satisfying. So you can see. also conflict makes stories work and. maybe that's the satisfaction of it all, but surprise evidence. happening happening in court. Like hang. on just a minute. Yeah, yeah. Any kind. of gotcha evidence that happens in. court. I mean actually people crying and. breaking down and completely. contradicting their witness statement.

because of that also once you're there. you tend to just in my experience and. I've you know covered various court. cases, people don't tend to. kind of get broken down and. fall to pieces and then just sort of. confess to everything. They kind of. stick with what they went with in their. witness statement. We all know the cost. of characters flats and houses and all. of those someone on that brink. People. being able to afford things out of their. income bracket is like beyond. Yeah. Oh. my god, the Thursday Murder Club.

I remember thinking Yeah. I said to you. you when you sent me the first picture. of himself I was like and that's. Cooper's Chase is it then? Wow, [laughter] okay. Remind me to retire. that. Remind me to retire to that Cooper's. Chase. Quicksand. You don't is the number one one being. kids. Yeah. We used to think about. quicksand. When I was a child I was. and when I was and certainly when I was. a teenager the things you know I was.

scared of quicksand, ghost and getting. toxic shock syndrome. >> I'm still nervous about quicksand now if. I'm on a on unfamiliar beach or just in. boggy land. Cuz you do sort of think oh I mean that. could that could be it. I've seen it so. many times. You've got to be so careful. But I think that's very close to what. Alex is saying which is things that. genuinely affect your life in some way. which are purely because you've seen. them on.

>> close to what Alex is saying, which is. things that genuinely affect your life. in some way, which are purely because. you've seen them on. >> Yeah. >> TV. By the way, I don't think food po- I. think perhaps Alex, perhaps your partner. does get food poisoning. I think I think. it's hard to have something. >> I'm not a doctor and I don't even play. one on TV. I don't wish to get into. that. But yes, I think it's There's. There are so many of these. You'll all. be writing in the ones that you see. >> I've I've got a couple. >> Yeah. >> Finding a parking space. Like right in front of somewhere. >> Yes. >> I mean, that's like I mean, it literally. never happens. You never see somebody.

going to a multi-story car park and like. going, "Okay, there's Okay, there's. nothing on the. ground floor. Okay, let's go to the. third no, there's nothing on the It's. just just go all the way up to the. roof.". >> Yeah. >> Because there's every single floor will. be full apart from the roof and there'll. be loads of spaces there. But no, they. literally just park in front of wherever. they're going and turning on the TV just. at the time that the the thing that the. film is about is being talked about on. the news. >> Yes. >> Like you don't have to sit through like. sort of, you know, 3 minutes on the war in Ukraine before.

you get, "And in other news, a local. businessman was murdered today." It. always You switch on and it and it. always. >> It's right there. >> is immediately. >> on demand. >> the first thing that's talked about on. >> On narrative demand. >> Yes. And written in such a way that. would never be on the news. >> Yes. >> But I think I mean, it's very, very hard. to look past quicksand. >> Yes. >> Perhaps younger. listeners. >> It's completely fallen out of favor, as. I say. But there are many of those. things. And if I honestly, I just. stopped off for a little bit of time. because there are so many. But you'll.

all have your own ones and I'm looking. forward to hearing yours. >> People who have um who who have the. volume up on their phone. People who. have alerts on their phone. >> Yeah. >> Just just so you know that a a text has. come through. I think, "Who's got them. Who's got them alerts on?". >> has, but they don't really. >> Oh, all right. Okay, yeah, that makes. sense. >> But definite. >> Yeah. Anyway, this. Do write in and we'll we'll we Alex, we. we will we'll do some more of those um. next week as well, I think. Shall we go. for a break? And after the break, I. think we uh we have questions on. Strictly and Eurovision. >> Oh, yes. Okay, very good. Let's go.

>> Okay. >> [laughter]. >> Wow. You really mean it. Oh my god, you love adverts. >> Yeah, I do. I love them. >> [music]. >> This episode is brought to you by. Lloyds. Now, I love it when characters. are part of a club. You wouldn't know. anything about that, would you, Richard? >> The Thursday Murder Club in some ways. reminds me of the A-Team. >> I would now like to map each of those. characters onto the A-Team and feel I. probably could. I mean, Elizabeth is. Hannibal and it's not even close. >> [laughter]. >> That's exa- that's exactly right. And.

Ron is howling mad Murdock. >> Well, there are definite perks to being. in a club. Just ask the members of Club. Lloyds. Because with Club Lloyds, you. can bank on Lloyds to give you more. wherever you are. >> If you join Club Lloyds, there's all. sorts of benefits you can choose. between. There's, for example, six free. cinema tickets. >> They've got an annual coffee club and. gourmet society membership, which would. be mine. >> And also something that the Thursday. Murder Club would enjoy very, very much. indeed. To top it all off there, you. have fee-free spending abroad, which. means wherever you are, you won't be. charged by Lloyds to use your debit card.

when you're traveling. Now, joining this. club costs £5 per month, but that is. refunded in any month that you pay. £2,000 into your account. >> Now, that is a club that's worth being. part of. Check out Club Lloyds today. You'll need to be a UK resident and aged. 18 or over to apply. >> This segment is brought to you by. Lloyds, the home of Club Lloyds. >> Now, the film industry has always had. its private rooms, the sort of deals, dinners, juries, where the buyers and. critics who decide what gets noticed. meet and they also decide what gets.

financed and what gets talked about. >> And one of the best examples of that. would be Cannes, the Cannes Film. Festival, which is a club that once. you're in, it can be very, very. lucrative. >> So, what does it mean to enter one of. cinema's most prestigious clubs? And. what actually changes once Cannes lets. you in? >> You've been to Cannes a number of times, haven't. >> It feels like the the whole town becomes. this very, very prestigious club. It's. interesting because the thing about the. Cannes Fest- Festival is that they. everyone there is 100% convinced that. they matter and it all matters almost.

more than anything. It's like a real. piece of unapologetic sort of star. power, star culture, glamour and it's. quite easy to sort of walk around and. think, would I be admitted to this club? Well, a lot of the parties happen on. boats. Some people Yeah, some people say have. rules I will never go to a party on a. boat. I don't like a party on a boat. because you can't leave. >> Yeah. >> But nonetheless, lots of the big and. prestigious parties do happen on a boat. So, there is that that sense that if. you're not part of it, you're on the. shoreline kind of not pressing your nose. quite up against the window, but that's. where you. >> they call it a porthole.

>> Yeah, porthole. If you're If you're at the porthole, you're too close. >> But it definitively is. Cannes. If you're accepted at Cannes, then suddenly you are in the Hollywood. club. I think that's for sure, isn't it? Something like Pulp Fiction which won. Cannes many many years ago and went on. to win Oscars. Parasite would be another. good example of a film that was massive. at Cannes. >> Steven Soderbergh Slaves and Videotape. He was 26. If they agree that they will. allow your film to be shown in. competition and they have to some extent. admitted you into the club, then it.

becomes enormous. And you can arrive as. a nobody like Steven Soderbergh did. really and then you leave as a Oh my. gosh, you're now going to be in all the. awards conversation back in the US. It. can become a big thing if you win the. Palm d'Or. >> Like Anora would be another example of. that. >> would be a huge thing and Sean Baker. said I don't I'm the director, you know, I'm not sure we were a big film at all. before that and then suddenly it. dominates all the awards conversation. So, there is a sense that once you've. been swept up into the Cannes club that. you great things are going to happen for. you. >> Talking of clubs, we got Listen, this is.

a more everyday version of a club, but. one that's easier to join. I would say. that rather than having to make a movie, you can. Club Lloyds. >> Here's the segue is rather easier to. join than the the Cannes club. You do. not have to make an Oscar winning film. to get in, but there are still many, many rewards. >> There are. You can choose one lifestyle. benefit each year with a choice of 12. months of Disney Plus, six cinema. tickets, an annual digital coffee club, and Gourmet Society membership, or an.

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Welcome back everybody. Now, there is a. very good question which can lead us. into various bits about Strictly because. there's obviously news. Janet Koldste. asks, "Given the announcement that. Johannes Radebe is going to be some sort. of roving reporter on this year's. Strictly, I've started wondering whether. the show is quietly changing its format. and whether a change like this is. influenced by audience data. Do. streaming platforms know exactly which. scenes people skip, rewatch, or abandon? If so, are producers starting to shape. programs around that data?".

>> There's two questions there. I'll take. the second bit first, which is do. broadcasters have that information? Yes, they do. They they absolutely have sort. of minute by minute information about. when people switch off, when they don't. switch off, and certainly the. the streamers. I mean, that's. it's absolutely grist to their mill. That's absolutely part of their business. plan. It's you know, it's like. >> And including for shows like ours, you. you know everything, how long they stay, whether yeah. >> You know, we can we can access that. data. So, it's you know, for example, if. Marina is wrong about bonds on the. everyone switches off cuz they just like.

they're just fuming. >> People come to listen at that point cuz. they love to hear it. >> Yeah, definitely, you know, if you've. got a. formatted show, um. you can find out very, very quickly if. there's a point at which people go, "No, this is not for me." Or, you know, like. the music act on. you know, on an entertainment show, that's when people switch off. And so, always has been, always will be. Doesn't. mean you shouldn't have them, but you. know, that's definitely when when people. switch off. And dramas as well, they. absolutely know at what point they. abandoned it or. film, they'll know what time they they.

abandoned it. And you know, they'll but. they'll do all that in testing as well, you know, they'll sit with the test. audience with you know, little dials, when they're happy, when they're not. happy. And so, forever and ever TV has. been um to inform has been very good at. that. In terms of Strictly, I don't. think that is the case because it's not. doesn't really have a format as such. If. you think about what Strictly is, we. introduce the judges, we'll we'll do a. dance, uh we'll go to Tess, Tess will introduce. the couple. That'll finish and so, Tess. will ask for opinions, you'll go.

upstairs and Claudia will be talking to. the couple. We then get the votes, rinse. and repeat with VTs in between. So, that's always been the format of that. and there's so there there sort of isn't. a point at which. if there's a bit of that that you would. turn off at, then it's happening 10. times in an episode. So, you know, it's. sort of meaningless. I would say that. >> 7 million people or something watch it. live. >> Yes. >> So, that's hard to tell what people are. doing in that. >> Yes, it's yeah, it it sort of is, but. enough people are watching it on catch. up that. that you can. So, yes, they're going to.

have three hosts now and I think that is. not or people don't like this or. something, but you cut your cloth. according to your presenters. You have. the opportunity now to ring the changes. a little bit cuz I show is on train. tracks and we've talked before about the. fact that it needs to be on train tracks. because it's a. big live show and you've got a lot to. get in and you know, anytime you run. over by 5 seconds on a even a single. element of it, then. >> You're eating into someone else's time. >> You're eating into someone else's time. cuz you have to come off air at the. right time. So, now that you know, they've got cuz Josh and Emma Willis.

hosting which by the way, I think it's. going to be a great combination and. Johannes backstage. They are obviously. building new things into the format. Now, what they can't cut down on is I. don't think they will cut down on number. of contestants. They are not going to cut down on the. length of dances. >> No. >> They're definitely still going to have. some VT stuff cuz you need that. But my. guess would be and you can't really cut. down on what Tess did because it was it. was very that was always very very.

tight. You're probably not going to cut. down on what Claudia did cuz that's not. that's that's just going to go for it. So, there's not a lot of fat to cut. I. think the VTs is the place that you can. do it. I think that you know, if those. VTs are. 120 seconds, there's nothing to say they. shouldn't be 75 seconds. and give yourself 4 minutes, 5 minutes. really for Johannes to do three hits. backstage. >> Yeah. >> Something, you know, maybe of 90 seconds. each, something like that. And so, >> Is that what he's going to do? Is it. going to be backstage or will he go out.

to the VT. places? >> It's a very good question. I imagine. they'll use him for lots. >> Yeah. >> different things. And I imagine he'll. come out at I imagine the three of them. will be out there out front at the. beginning. Of course, he's going to do. lots of dancing within that and we'll. see him in group dances and all of that. stuff. So, I think that yeah, they will. just fight cuz there is not a lot of fat. on that show. I know it feels like there. might be, but I don't think there is. >> isn't. >> I don't think that I don't think the. judges will agree to having 30 seconds. less.

on each thing because why would you cuz. they have to do their job seriously and. they take it seriously. So, I would. think maybe you cut down a little bit on. VTs. Maybe they'll add 5 minutes, 10. minutes to the to the to the duration. which which is absolutely they can do. that. That wouldn't be an issue at all. But I think that it's just adding an. extra element which is to see behind the. scenes which people like anyway. >> Yeah. >> And you get a lot of it on It Takes Two. You know, >> Yes. >> It's a shame not to see that on Strictly. because it's part of the glamour of the.

thing and and Johannes is is a perfect. person to do that. So, yeah, I think. it's probably it's not they're. responding to what viewers have switched. off. I think they are thinking we love. the show. What is it that viewers love? What are the most popular bits on It. Takes Two? What are the bits that people. always really really respond to? Uh and we get Johannes to do that. >> Part quality some of those. I agree. Although in general, absolutely, Janet, all shows are looking at that data all. the time and completely modifying, you.

know, and Strictly's slightly different. for the reasons you said, but lot. are always looking at things like that. and it's what's created huge amounts of. the dynamics in things like Netflix. shows where they say something enormous. has to happen at the end of episode four. of a draw, you know, there's quite a. there's a sort of template now for lots. of this stuff and it's because they know. they have so much data on audience. behavior. >> What I'm fascinated in is if if they do. all come out at the beginning, which. they will, is that idea of having to. write a three-hander, which is quite. hard. Writing a Rob Colley has written.

on that show for years and years and. years. By the way, I'm reliably informed. that there's a brilliant joke on Have I. Got News for You this week about a. muntjac that was found on the escalator. in M&S. Uh and that the joke was it's not the. first person to first time someone's. been in uh M&S and said, "Oh, that's a. little deer.". Uh and I'm reliably informed that Rob. Colley Rob Colley wrote that joke. But. to do a three-hander at the top, that's. very hard. If you would If you watch. Homes Under the Hammer now, >> Yeah. >> you know, that's uh that's a that's. that's a tough intro. But it's going to. be a really fun refresh. And it's.

different, you know, can't be the same. because then you're going to be directly. compared to Tess and Claudia and that's. not fair on anyone. So, yeah, it it. feels to me you've got three like great. presences there. >> Yeah. >> Marina, question for you. Jason Cash, that's a good name. >> Very good name. >> That's a really good name. Jason, if I. could use that at some point. >> about to say yeah. >> Yeah. That's amazing. Jason Cash. Anyway, Jason he does have a question. He says, "Who makes the call when a. newspaper changes its political. allegiances? Would it be the editor.

or the owner?". >> It's a good question cuz I think we're. going to start seeing more of it. It. does really depend and it's different. from paper to paper and proprietor to. proprietor. But in general, newspapers. most newspapers have been quite small C. conservative in that they it doesn't. happen very often. You kind of know. broadly, but we had a two-party system. >> A change a change in allegiance that. happens. >> Yeah, yeah, political yeah. So, it. hasn't happened, but it's definitely one. to watch now because we used to have a. two-party system. The Times actually has. changed a lot. I don't know, you know,

lots of people changed who would never. have said vote Labour suggested voting. for Tony Blair. I also, by the way, find. the whole business of. There's I suppose we're talking about. one thing, generally like which party. does this paper kind of covertly. support. >> Yeah. >> Um which when it comes to a general. election did they in that ridiculous. fashion tell their readers to vote for. The Times has varied quite a lot um over. history. The Sun The Sun were left-wing. back in the start, but then became.

um under Murdoch, you know, huge sort of. Thatcherites. They said vote Blair, but. um and they backed Labour in 2024, but. you know what? They want to reflect. their readers when they can feel the. vibe or the writing is on the wall. >> Um. >> The writing's on the wall, by the way, is number 11 in the best Bond themes, the Sam Smith one. >> A lot of that has come from Murdoch, the. proprietor, but also people within those. organizations. pointlessly, but also successfully, second-guess Murdoch all the time and.

think, "What would my boss like?" all. the time, and it's always happened. You know, are they going to go Reform in. 2020 29 or whenever the election happens. to be? I would have thought that's. possibly quite likely, but I don't you. know don't think The Times will, for. instance. So, there has There is that. sort of disparity. The Mail, are they. going to go Reform? The Telegraph? I. Lots of things are going to change now. because you've got lots of different. >> you're a political leader, you know, we. we've seen historically Blair going out. to Australia and meeting Murdoch and. stuff like that. If you're Farage, who.

do you target? The owners or the editors. or both? >> Do you just think that none of this. matters anymore? And. or matters so much less than it ever. did. It would be it's a nice to have, isn't it? I don't think he particularly. cares. The FT of. you know, endorsed the Lib Dems, Tories, whatever. I remember the and in terms of. how it's done, by the way, lots of these. people just don't want to be left. behind. They don't want to if they think. that the pack has moved or the herd has. moved or whatever it is and that that's. the what you know, like you you knew. that.

new Labour were going to win in 1997. Do. you want to be the person saying, "Oh, vote for the tired old Tories." They. there's always a thing where they. actually slightly want to reflect what's. happened rather than they lead everyone. by the nose. Forget thinking they lead. anyone by the nose anymore. It's just. that is dead. The Guardian is different. They have an editorial conference to. decide who is best. >> Oh my god, that must be one of the worst. mornings in the year. >> [laughter]. >> I don't know about that. I haven't. attended it for a while, but they they.

have a long discussion about it. I mean, I think, you know, this time lots of. people will want Green to be endorsed. And there are different ways of everyone. doing this. Either it it's so obvious it. comes from the proprietor or there's a. sort of tacit agreement anyway that. you'll get that some of those papers as. I say will back reform because they. think that's where their readership's. going. And they don't want to look off. the pace, basically. And they are off. the pace as we already know that the. media organizations have changed so. much. So, I do think I mean, I it was. when Jeff Bezos set up well, why do we.

even have to have a leader saying who we. support in this election? Even though I. don't sympathize with them on almost. anything, I sort of agree with the. Washington Post. I mean, it's nobody. wants that sort of nonsense partisan. instruction. They can kind of work out. which way you're. which side you're on anyway. And for me, it's always embarrassing. Always always. embarrassing. It tends to be a top-down. thing and occasionally someone like and. occasionally the Guardian will let. everybody decide. >> But certainly if an editor and an owner. were to disagree, then the owner would. win that argument. >> in our country, yes.

>> Yeah. And in America? >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Well, perhaps not Yeah, I know, I don't. know. In the old way In the old ways, no, not always in America. >> Okay. >> Because I think it might be, you know, they Remember they are on such an ego. trip about their journalism and how. sacred it is, even though it's been so often shown not. to be. But um so there is a sort of. self-regard there that thinks it's. absolutely sacrosanct that the editor. must decide, but yeah, what actually. happens in the back room is not so. clear-cut. >> Yeah, Jeff Bezos would uh.

>> Bezos will do what he likes, of course, as they now know. Okay, Richard, Callum. McKeown would like to say, "If Coldplay. entered the Eurovision Song Contest, would they win it? Or is the UK cursed? What is the butcher's bill for the BBC? And is there any public service value?". >> Huh. Uh there's a lot there. And the the bill. somewhere around 1.3, 1.5 million. They. pay half a million for the sort of the. rights to screen it. And also, by the. way, the rights to go straight through. to the final cuz we're one of the. largest um.

contributors. And when you add in, you. know, the BBC's production bits of it. and all the programming around it, it's. probably around 1.3, 1.5, which is which. is. >> ratings. >> Yes, less than it used to. I think it. was about 5 1/2 this year, which is. which is which is still far away bigger. than any other Really, really, really. big, but you know, it's it's certainly. the the lowest it's been, but you know, it takes up an entire Saturday night. I. was thinking it starts quite late. >> Yeah. >> Eurovision. I mean, if there's any way, you know, if the BBC were let straight.

into the final, surely we'd have to. start it an hour earlier. I'm absolutely. certain that discussion's been had. Um. so it is, you know, for what it. delivers, it's not insanely expensive. Is there any public service remit for. it? Huh, I mean in a way given the sort of. programming that BBC does around it and. you know, talk about music bringing. people together and things like that. I. guess there is an argument for it. Plus. I I've always been of the view that you. know, big entertainment that brings. families together is one of the jobs of. the BBC and and definitively that's what.

Eurovision does. >> Richard, and incontinence. >> I mean like it brings I mean more. incontinence, you know what I mean? >> Yeah. >> So yeah, I I I think it's one of those. things that the BBC does very well and. it's part of the you know, it's it's. like sport. It's like the FA Cup final, Eurovision. I mean that's exactly what. it is and no one's obsessing about the. ratings for the FA Cup final. Um. exciting though it was. >> no programming about it in the. in the old days. The front page of BBC. Sport website on the morning of the FA. Cup final, you had to scroll so far down.

to find and. >> What if Chelsea Man City? I mean. >> to find Yes, but nonetheless, okay. >> Fun for Chelsea fans, fun for Man City. fans. >> get up in the morning and you could. start watching things. And now it's like. yeah, yeah, same. >> Yeah, nothing. >> was nothing for so late till so late. until right down the bottom of the. website. >> But so yeah, I think that you know, it's. it's almost got like protected status in. that way. I mean yeah, we listen, we've come last. six times this century, plum last six. times this century. Um number of reasons.

for it of course, you know, we we we. have taken it less seriously. The fact. that we get straight through to the. final means that we're not terrified. about being knocked out in the. semi-finals. I think we try and win it. That's for sure. So would Coldplay win? Now, no. >> No. >> Unless the song is great, which if it's. Coldplay probably would be. Um you know, there's there's lots of. people with big big big social media. presences. in Eurovision this year who did nothing. The the German song for example. So I.

think. >> in the Eurovision style as well. There's. something quite. >> But in specific about it. >> There is. >> quite specific about it and you can get. very technical about it and the. brilliant Chris Lockery often produces. these incredible statistical filled. things of of how to write a Eurovision. hit, when the key change should happen, you know, what language should it be in, um all of that stuff, what what time it. should be in. I think that. there's no real reason for it. No one. wants to vote for Britain particularly,

but you know, other than the Ukrainian. entry winning, we would have won it a. couple of years ago with Sam Ryder. >> Yeah. >> So it's we we have to get rid of any. idea that people hate us or that we. can't win cuz we definitively. can win. >> but yeah, was it was perfect. >> Yeah, there was something great about. it. And by the way, I couldn't tell you. why because if if you if you ask me to. pick a Eurovision song, we would almost. certainly come last. And the guy who. look on No Computers clearly a a very. very very smart guy and very. entertaining guy, does incredible. things. And you know, I I did feel for.

him. You could see him thinking, "Oh, this really felt like a good idea." And. I just. >> Mhm. >> I'm not absolutely sure that that it. was. But you know, this idea again, "Oh, we're always stupid you know, we don't. know how to do it." I mean I mean. >> That's not true. >> Almost every country always loses. You. know, there's very few very few. countries. You know, if the Bulgarian. song had been our song, would we have. won? You have to say probably yes because we. have the example of Sam Ryder which. tells you which tells you we're. absolutely capable of winning the. Eurovision Song Contest. If Coldplay.

entered, would they win? I think the. question is. would a band that is massive. automatically get enough votes that they. would win? I There seems to be zero. correlation. I mean, we've put in all. sorts of bands over the years, haven't. we? Blue probably being the the biggest. and who did perfectly well. I think they. were top 10. But it it's. I think there's zero correlation. It's. it's quite a meritocratic thing, the. Eurovision Song Contest. And those. juries and the and the and the and the. and the public decide. I mean, were I. Coldplay, would I want to do it?

Actually, Coldplay really really. wouldn't need to do it. But you know, there's there's it's I'd love to see. someone like Self Esteem do a Eurovision. song. You know, cuz someone who. absolutely gets why people listen to. music and gets how music connects to. people and it isn't there cuz it's a. novelty but wants to just write a. big old hit that brings people together. But it's I would hate to be in charge of. who the British entry is because. >> You can't get You can't I mean it's a it. is it is still a lottery. >> It is there's a lot of it there's a.

lottery and it's still one of my. favorite to do. I I've said many times. before the single best thing I ever did. in my career was giving out the votes at. Eurovision. Of anything I've ever done. in in my entire career across all the. different media, that was still my. favorite saying "Hello, London calling. Here are the votes from the UK jury.". Just to remind you, we will be talking. to Steven Spielberg very soon for one of. these Q&A things. But as always, we want. your questions. That's much the most fun. way of doing it. So it's the rest is. entertainment at golhanger.com if you've.

got a question for Steven Spielberg. For. our members, Marina, your. series of bonus episodes talking to. James Canagaso. the one on Timothy Chalamet is out this. week and opera and ballet, was he right. about that? And I know lots of people, cuz the first one was free, listened to. and loved the first one on tradwives. If. you haven't heard it, listen to that. And if you do want to join and become a. member, it is the rest is. entertainment.com. at free listening, all that kind of. stuff. >> Otherwise, we'll see you next Tuesday. >> See you next Tuesday.

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