Elon Musk vs Christopher Nolan

Big week for show business this week. Rivals, back again. We're going to find. out the Strictly hosts today. We're not. allowed to announce it because it's a. We're going to go out in the morning. Today being Tuesday, yeah. But, um we're. very happy with them. >> Yeah. I think it's good. >> Yeah. I think it's good. By the time. this goes out, you'll know who they are. So, this is Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why do. people announce things on Tuesdays? >> Yeah. It's really annoying. Try and, you. know, try and make the effort and do it. the weekend. >> But, that's That's like Have I Got News. for You? They always record on. Thursdays, and that's always when. elections are. Uh and they're always. sort of recording it and they're like,

"Well, I mean, we've absolutely no. idea.". >> I wrote quite a few columns like that. last week. >> But, anyway, that's that. >> Please don't let this be overtaken by. 2:00 p.m. I I'm accepting it's going to. be overtaken by 6:00 p.m. >> But, that's like us for Strictly. >> Yes. >> That's what I'm saying. Yes, what are we. talking about? >> We are talking about phenotypes in. nearly 3,000-year-old works of. literature. >> What is a phenotype, just out of. interest? >> It is the observable physical. characteristics of an organism. >> Got you. Absolutely none the wiser. >> We are talking about Elon Musk getting. very angry with Christopher Nolan for.

casting a black woman as Helen of Troy. >> We'll talk about that. We are talking. about You might be shocked to learn that. I'll be taking the lead on this next. one, the return of Big Break. Big Break. is coming back. I'll talk about the. original. I'll talk about. >> It's a snooker show. >> I love the fact that. >> Sorry. I'm so sorry. Yeah, yeah. If. There are some people who are in our. audience who will not be aware of Big. Break. I'm so sorry. There are. >> There really are not. Please. There is. >> Oh, we've got I'd love to poll this. Yeah, I'd love to poll this. I'd love to.

poll this. >> Let's poll. >> Okay. I know about phenotype. I know. what you're going to say. >> Do you know what a phenotype is? Have. you heard of Big Break? >> Okay, but I I think you'd also be quite. disappointed by the answers. >> I'm going to You know what? I'm going to. talk to our lovely friends at More in. Common. I mean, they've got better. things to be doing at the moment, but. I'm going to ask them how many people. know what a phenotype is. >> Come off the by-election and come and. tell me how many people in the rest of. the entertainment audience have heard of. Big Break. I'm not saying nobody has. I'm saying it's more niche than you. think it is. So, anyway. What are we talking about? We're talking. about but it won't be soon, would it?

Because it's it's returning. And we'll. be talking about that. >> to I might not be able to get past that. I might until I might have to get the. polling done live. >> Okay. >> We're talking about that. >> We're also talking about the Cannes Film. Festival which is running over this part. of last week and to the end of this week. where there are no studio films, no big. US studio films um and we're going to. talk about why cuz it's interesting. It's a bit it's sort of a departure. >> The Rest Is Entertainment is presented.

by Octopus Energy. Now, the moment. someone becomes properly famous, they. stop traveling as a person and they. start traveling as a situation. And yes, I am talking about the world of. entourages. >> It's amazing anytime you do a TV show. when someone properly famous comes on, it's all you you can just have a. spreadsheet as to how many people. they're going to bring with them. >> Most people don't actually need a. bodyguard and a fixer and a straw lady, but not having to start from scratch. every single time you get in contact. with someone is actually undeniably. appealing. >> So, Octopus Energy, you know anytime you.

ever ring any company, you start from. scratch right from the beginning again. With Octopus Energy, they recognize your. number and that goes through to a very. very small team of around 10 people who. are there to deal with you. So, you'll. almost certainly be dealing with someone. who you've dealt with before. That's the. Octopus Energy entourage that they've. built around you. >> A great satisfaction not having to tell. your story for new every single time. which I think most major celebrities. also feel.

>> Shall we start with Musk versus. Christopher Nolan? >> Yes, somehow Elon versus Nolan just. feels like it's the one to go with, but. yes, so the Odyssey comes out on July. the 17th. Obviously, it has all been. shot, but there are certain little bits. of minor characters by the way because. Helen of Troy is a minor character in. the Odyssey. Figure in the Iliad. >> It's one of the famous ones, yeah. She's. a famous one, isn't she? Yeah. >> Uh but yeah, you know, so yeah, you're coming back, but you're. not a series regular.

>> Yeah. >> So anyway, and he's revealed that um all. they've done is a a publicity shot, so. we now know that Lupita Nyong'o is Helen. of Troy. Elon Musk uh has lost his mind. >> Speaking of it, you know what? The. second I see any casting, I always. think, I wonder what Elon Musk thinks. That's the opinion I want to hear. >> I I couldn't agree more. So it's great. that he's immediately come out and you. know, as is his customary style, posted. just the 950 times or something about. it. He says it's not realistic that. Christopher Nolan is doing it for the.

Oscars. He's got some sort of quota. system. He thinks that if you have a. certain amount of diversity, then you've. done it to meet the Academy's diversity. quotas, and therefore you are eligible. He makes great films about men and the. woman who love them. And. I'm kidding. Come on. >> got Marina Hyde versus Christopher. Nolan. >> No, we haven't. Elon Musk loves Troy. The you know, there was a Brad Pitt one. but that's the I know, that's the Iliad. And Brad Pitt's Achilles, and I don't. remember who was Helen. Diane Kruger. maybe? It's a long time ago since I've.

seen it once. Even though that movie, by. the way, plays incredibly fast and loose. with the Iliad, with potential massive. knock-ons in the Homeric extended. universe. >> I remember being at that that cinema. just saying, this is playing fast and. loose with the Iliad, isn't it? >> This like, well, in which case how can. Agamemnon do this later on? If you yeah. >> Yeah. >> Stuff like that. >> Exactly. Yeah, I thought Paul Shane as. Agamemnon, I thought no. >> But but yes, well, we're going back to. Bronze Age Greece, of course. So we have. to say,

is any of this that realistic? I don't. think they would they would have looked. like Matt Damon and Tom Holland. I've. seen the trailer. There's one big sort. of trailer out. And they I don't think. they would have looked like Matt Damon. or Tom Holland. Uh you know, when Tom. Holland says, you know, my dad's coming. home or something like that. Again, I'm told they would have said it. in Greek. I don't Again, I'm not the. expert, but I'm told they would have. said it in Greek. >> Tom Holland's dad is the stand-up. Dominic Holland. >> Yeah. >> So, that's unrealistic. >> Yeah. >> Because we know that Dominic Holland was. not. >> why Michael Owen the footballer cannot. go to movies because everybody's.

pretending to do things. >> He's right. >> This is right. Yeah, and I'm actually he. could go and perhaps talk Elon Musk down. off his latest ledge about this. Mel. Gibson, I guess would have done it in. the original Greek. We need to check in. with that resurrection of Christ. actually, that's just reminded me, but. I'll let me go and make some calls on. that cuz I want to see how that's going. The next thing that he's going to get. very upset about is that. Travis Scott has been cast as a sort of. bard because. >> Yes, the rapper Travis Scott. >> because it's poetry's like rap and it's. all something like that. But we have we. haven't, you know, something.

>> Yeah. >> We haven't seen. anything more than It's a film. And it's. coming out with it. Uh we haven't seen anything more than. the trailer. But Musk has really gone off the deep. end about this and of course all his. sort of. baby bros are posting about it. I see, you know, that Kevin Sorbo who was um. in Hercules, you know, completely. accurate classical completely accurate. classical piece. He said, "You could. have paid me to tank this movie and I. wouldn't have thought of this." There. are always new ways to be found to teach. Kevin Sorbo to tank movies.

>> There's a guy Matt Matt Walsh who's a. commentator. >> Yeah. >> Uh and he's talking about it and he Do. you want to know how he describes. Christopher Nolan? The. nerve of these men. Genuinely. Who By all means doesn't stick to what. you do, whatever it is. Elon Musk, genuinely, I know you started with a lot. of money, but you're the richest guy in. the world. Not without talent. This is not your. industry. Okay, it is not your industry. Some people are going to be better than. you at other things. This is definitely.

one of them. I know from childhood you. desperately wanted to be people like. Christopher Nolan and you're not and I. know it burns you up and now you're. finally going, "Oh my god, we can now. stop. We've got some power over these. people." but just let somebody else. talented get on with things. He says. about Christopher Nolan. Yeah, he's almost he's almost admitting. to it here. He describes Christopher Nolan as. technically talented but a coward. Isn't that amazing? I listen, Taylor he.

knows where to point the camera. I'll. give him that. All right, but a coward. >> Unbelievable. >> Do you know what, Matt Walsh? When. people are filling the multiplexes to. see your movies, we want to listen to. your opinions about Christopher Nolan, okay? But he's earned his place where he. is. Why why do you think it is they feel. they have to comment? Is it just the. grift? Is it just that they it plays. well to their base? >> I think someone like I it's different. with Musk. I don't know, he's like a. poster who had to buy the company. so that he could be the preeminent.

poster. And so all his posts are sort of. pushed right up the algorithm and. everyone agrees with him. Yeah, I I. mean, I do think it's quite sort of sad. >> Yeah. >> Um. It is quite odd because they are the. people who do spend their entire time. saying celebrities should not be talking. about anything other than you know, should stay in their lane, effectively. And there are times when I see. celebrities say, "Huh, you know, I see. another of Elon Musk's. rockets has burst on launch or whatever. it is. It's like, "Oh, I'm so sorry.

That celebrity should shut up, okay? Sorry, love. It's rocket science.". >> your rockets would blow up on launch. >> and he's amazing at this thing. That his. that company is amazing. The things. they've done is they they caught a. rocket with some tweezers, okay? And I. get that sometimes they don't that they. don't catch it and sometimes it blows up. on the launchpad. But in general, they. are amazing. >> scientists involved as well. But. Christopher Nolan, there's lots of. people on that set as well. >> Technically brilliant scientist but. coward. >> Yes. Some of these guys Do you know what? Why.

are they catching the rocket? That to me. is cowardly. Let it crash to earth. Let it crash to earth. But. he's built this company. He's clearly. better than everyone who tries to do. what he does at what he does. Okay, that's great. >> Yeah. >> But there must be something enchanted. that means he constantly wants to be. funny, he constantly thinks if I made. the Odyssey, I'd make it properly. >> of the father. >> Oh, yeah, I mean it's always. Do you think so? I think of a TV as you. know, that when Sopranos came out and.

everyone thought it was funny the idea. of a mobster having a therapist. >> Yeah. >> Do you think that many of these I was. Woody thinking this the other day. Do. you think that many of these tech. billionaires have therapists? >> No, but don't you remember that the. stupidest idea that's ever been had for. a podcast and that means something as. you know. >> Oh, yeah. >> Was Meghan and Harry's idea of like. talking to world people like Putin and. saying thing you know, effectively sort. of asking about their childhood. >> Right. >> Talking and therapizing them.

>> Okay. >> Which I mean, I'd watch it if they told. you just to do it. If you were telling. me that Vladimir Putin's going to sit. down with Megan and Harry and they're. going to talk about their childhoods. If. you don't think I'm keeping it locked on. that, of course. >> But you can see, you can absolutely I. mean they they they say the quiet bit. out loud all the time, these tech. titans, this envy they have for a. certain sector of society, this desire. to be funny, this desire to be liked in. a creative way, this desire to take what. it is they've been able to do in. business and sort of come across as a.

personality who is likable and has some. creative talent. But. someone must be talking to them about. this. Someone must be going, you know. it's okay. Look at what you've created, look at what you've achieved. You're the. richest man. in the world. >> And you're excellent at the space thing. Yeah, maybe you're wrong about the. chances. You're you literally are a. cultural ambassador. I'm so sorry. Your. favorite books are Lord of the Rings, you know, The Fountainhead, Ayn Rand. I. was like, you're so basic, I can't even. tell you. And that's fine because you're.

amazing at the space thing and that's. actually fine. >> can't be non-basic at You've got to most. parts of your life you have to be basic. in in order to have the bandwidth to be. good at the thing that you're good at. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> And you're And also you also have no. idea of how anything I mean, I can't. even believe I'm having slightly talk. about this, but the way that works of. art, this is 2,700 2,800 years old, how. they are reinterpreted over time, and it. really doesn't matter if someone said. someone could say it's got golden hair. You might have seen all different types.

of Shakespeare performed, all different. interpretations. It's kind of what keeps. them alive. >> Exactly that. >> And you're certainly not the first one. to have a non-white um Helen of Troy. Orson Welles um cast Eartha Kitt as. Helen of Troy. >> Woke woke. >> Yeah. Woke Yeah, was Orson Welles woke? You must do you think? Do you know who. he is? Um He found Orson Welles found. her in a Eartha Kitt who went on to have. This is really right at the start of her. acting career. He found her in a lesbian.

drag bar in Paris. Um again, how woke, but I think it was run by one of one of. Marlene Dietrich's um. exes. >> Wow. >> And she was playing a man Eartha Kitt. was playing a man called Fred every. night. She was an underground sensation. in the world of um you know, sort of. after-hours lesbian Paris. And Orson. Welles said she was the most exciting. woman on Earth. The most exciting woman. on Earth was his quote. And therefore, when he um did a stage thing, he got her. to be Helen of Troy. >> That's amazing.

>> Yes, but was he woke? I don't think so. This is a nonsense. >> He's an artist. Artists. want to do interesting like the. Christopher Nolan when he decides to do. the Odyssey, he's not thinking I'm going. to do this exactly like the book. Right? And for for lots of reasons. One, the. book already exists. Two, the story's. been told retold a million times. So, he. only goes anywhere near it if he can do. something that tells us that story, but. also tells us about the times we live. in. That's the thing that interests him, to make an incredible spectacle, to make. a piece of art, and to do something that.

is going to entertain audiences. Now, your starting point for that is not, let's start on word one of the Odyssey. and end on the final word and make sure. everyone looks exactly like they're. described. It's just not It's. There's not a single artist in the. history of. >> It's got a cyclops in it. I mean. It's ridic- This is like when people go. have an absolute meltdown about what can. happen to Doctor Who, and you're like, I. don't know, he's got two hearts, he's an. alien. I mean, presumably quite a lot of. things can happen. But, thinking of his. cultural life, as I've said, he we know he likes Atlas. Shrugged, we know he likes Lord of the. Rings. I mean, we could have got like a.

really bad version of his AI to tell us. this. We know he was playing that game Elden. Ring, um, which he was playing obsessively when he. bought Twitter. Now, that is now being. made. by Alex Garland. They're filming it. here. They're probably going to Yeah, go. ahead. Will it be satisfying to him? I. do actually I think I've said this. take on this podcast before, but I've. got a theory about why guys like Elon. Musk really, really like those. historical things and those kind of. weird fantasy worlds that are.

effectively just kind of just off. versions of history. >> Yeah. >> It's because women always get treated. like complete in them. Always. But, it's fine cuz it's that's how it was. >> Yeah, you can't do anything about it. >> Yeah, it's a product of its times, even. if that time is a fantasy time. So, there were points with Game of Thrones. where when it deviated from the book and. they were literally adding in rapes, I. was thinking, I don't know, why do. people like this so much? I love I love. Game of Thrones. But, I think you have. to be clear-eyed about what's happening. There's a particular form of like, I'm.

really into this type of historical this. historical fantasy world and this is a. fantasy. I mean, it as I say, it's got. cyclops in it, it's got all sorts of. monsters in it. It's It's fantasy. So, to really mind about the skin color is. sort of extraordinary. >> They also say she's supposed to be the. most beautiful woman in the world, and. you cannot tell me that Lupita Nyong'o. is the most beautiful woman in the. world. And. Whoopi Goldberg said, "Mate, have you. looked in a mirror? You got you you. shouldn't be talking about looks.". >> Oh, she Oh, she's wonderful. And she's. she's also going to just say such a.

small part in this, but anyhow. >> Yes, I know. That's the thing. >> But, it has nonetheless caught fire. because of course he owns the town. square, and he puts himself right in the. middle of the town square. >> Yeah. >> And. >> Not my town. >> you do have to No, not you. You do have. to keep things secret to some degree. And it's not even equivalent, but they. really did it so successfully with. Barbie, which is Nobody knew what it. was. The pictures that had come off set. were when. when they were shooting on location, when they kind of appear in those kind. of crazy bright clothes, Ryan Gosling. and Margot Robbie in Venice Beach, and.

it's in kind of in the real world, cuz. otherwise, for obvious reasons, it was. all filmed in kind of controlled studio. environments. Nobody knew about it. They. kept the plot and that tone, which was. so unbelievably distinctive and amazing, secret. Um and the stuff you'd seen was kind of. pink and goofy. So, no one really knew. what it was going to be. And when it. came out, and it was like, "Oh my god, has someone like done a feminist. Barbie?" What? Yes. Then all the pundits attacked it, and but by then it was a juggernaut. Um.

and also it was really good, um which. let's hope is the case with I'm sure Why. wouldn't it be the case with The. Odyssey? Um and even Fox News, who. created massive Everyone Yeah, all the. online right, as usual, created massive. hit pieces against it, but it couldn't. stop it, and even Fox had to agree that. it was really big in the red states, and. people were turning out for this film. So, that's an interesting one. But, they. kept everything so completely secret. Um. and in that case it was about the tone. Um. but, it can have an effect on the bottom.

line. And I was talking to one person, a. producer, and said, "Can any of this. stuff?" And they said, "It's Christopher. Nolan, so he's an entity unto himself. He brings people into the cinemas in in. a way that stars used to in old days, and he's bigger than a star. He is. That's He will bring people out to see. his films and that is terrific. So. again, we're slightly talking about a. unicorn, but when they do have these pre. backlashes as it were against a film. that has yet to come out, casual Yeah, a front lash.

It can It can depress turnout amongst. casual audiences. They think there's a. sort of culture war fatigue thing where. people just think, "Oh god, I haven't. got the energy for it." Even though. don't worry, it's not a culture war. It's It's not even the Trojan War. It's. Don't worry. It's Really, it's a journey. home. And there are times when it can really. dominate the narrative. And if you look. at what happened with Ghostbusters or. with Little Mermaid, it just sort of. took over. And all female Ghostbusters. got such a pasting. That's I think that. was completely unfair.

The The Little Mermaid, I don't know. It's just a live-action version of it, but they had such a backlash. I mean, that should just be a gimme and it's. just fine and you go to the cinema and. watch The Little Mermaid. It You know, she's a mermaid. Again, please try and. suspend your disbelief that she's could. possibly be non-white. It really doesn't. matter. So both those things were. definitely affected by front lash. So it. is very hard to kill a great. It's very hard to kill a great. If it's. If it And I think that people will just. turn out for this. >> Also, it's just you know, the whole the. whole thing reminds me of how much.

easier the world is for people who are. not conflict averse. As someone who's deeply conflict averse, you know, it's that's hard to monetize. If you If you do not mind being in an. argument the whole time, my god, there. are pots of money you can pick up in. this world. >> insane, but again, that's. >> It's almost like his full-time job is. arguing and then he's just got this. bizarre side hustle as an unbelievably. leading kind of space aeronautics guy. >> But so we I mean, even you know, this. week, you know, again, he's having a go. at Christopher Nolan and now he's having. a go at Anthropic a couple of months ago. and now he's.

back in business with them cuz Grok. doesn't seem to be working. So you know, he's he's now sort of teaming up with. with Anthropic. It's like It's almost. like. he doesn't mean almost everything he. says. Yeah. And you just think, "Well, they just don't then just don't say it. Just do the good things that you're. doing.". >> think he means the race stuff. I think. he has certainly made many comments that. would appear to be racist, but he wrote. something recently on his platform which. he even he deleted. >> Wow. >> Which I find I know. >> Wow. >> It was like in the middle of the night. I don't even know if he keeps normal.

hours. I assume he doesn't in the. compound with all the baby mothers. And he wrote, "Bitches, money, no taxes, party.". And that party was really so unclear. So, is is this like a social gathering, in which case I'll live with it, or is. this a political party that optimizes. for the other three line items? >> Yes. What were they again? money, no taxes, >> Yeah. >> party. >> Money and no taxes are sort of the same. thing, really, aren't they? >> Yeah, I mean, you you couldn't argue with it cuz he. taken it down by the cuz he taken it. down by the morning.

>> And it's certainly a think piece. >> Yeah. Yeah, I think that was it. >> I mean, whether anyone's making a film. of that in 300 years time, I don't know. >> 2,000, 2,000. It's between 2,700, 2,800. It's oh. >> Whether someone's making a film of that. in 2,800 years time, I don't know, but. it's uh it's a thing, isn't it? >> actually quite a lot of films with that. plot line. >> Yeah. >> So, it's it's possible there will be. stories written, but maybe um yeah, but. he deleted it, so I guess he didn't have. the copy. >> So, what do we conclude? We conclude. it's just it's just weird. It's just.

weird that they have to have an opinion. on all of this. >> You're You don't have If you're going to. make everyone else stay out of their. things, which by the way, I don't mind. people talking about whatever they like, but do be aware that your opinions are. >> Not particularly interesting. >> are. They're very They're boring and they're. stupid. >> But also, they can't have therapists. There's no way. There's no way that. Zuckerberg and Musk sit down once a. fortnight with. >> No. >> someone wise to talk to them about their. childhood. and talk to them about why why they are. how they are.

>> Yeah, I mean I mean, I'm quite a good. big believer in pushing it all down, you. know, so. >> Yes, I'm I'm certain of that. But do do. you know that comes across? >> Yeah. >> So, maybe, you know, they're in the the. old pushing it down. I mean, I don't. know where you'd start with that father. with him. I mean, god. >> write I would write a show that about a. billionaire's therapist. That's got because they have someone for. everything. Like they have like full-time staff for, you know, physical staff, you know, they. have chefs, they have everything. You. would think maybe that they would have. an like like an on-staff therapist. But,

then maybe you get institutionalized and. you get Stockholm Syndrome and then the. therapist just turns into AI and tells. them what they want to say. >> has power in of a type. >> Yeah, and they don't want anyone else to. have power, right? >> No. >> Yeah. >> No. I I mean, they have to be the top of. the the old org chart. >> Yes. Maybe they do have a therapist. >> Maybe. >> Maybe they do. If they do, by the way, that's a really bad therapist. >> Also has terrible opinions. >> I mean, really, what what are you doing? That's a that's that's a therapist who's. not a fan of Christopher Nolan.

>> Shall we take a break? After which we. will be talking about snooker. >> So, this big break show you were talking. about? I've not heard of it. >> I think you'd like it. >> Okay. >> This episode is brought to you by. Lloyds. Now, I love it when characters. are part of a club. You wouldn't know. anything about that, would you, Richard? >> The Thursday Murder Club in some ways. reminds me of the A-Team. >> I would now like to map each of those. characters onto the A-Team and feel I. probably could. I mean, Elizabeth is. Hannibal and it's not even close. >> That's that's exactly right, and Ron is. Howling Mad Murdock.

>> Well, there are definite perks to being. in a club. Just ask the members of Club. Lloyds. Because with Club Lloyds, you. can bank on Lloyds to give you more. wherever you are. >> If you join Club Lloyds, there's all. sorts of benefits you can choose. between. There's, for example, six free. cinema tickets. >> They've got an annual coffee club and. gourmet society membership, which would. be mine. >> And also something that the Thursday. Murder Club would enjoy very, very much. indeed. To top it all off, you have. fee-free spending abroad, which means. wherever you are, you won't be charged. by Lloyds to use your debit card when. you're traveling. Now, joining this club.

costs £5 per month, but that is refunded. in any month that you pay £2,000 into. your account. >> Now, that is a club that's worth being. part of. Check out Club Lloyds today. You'll need to be a UK resident and aged. 18 or over to apply. Welcome back, everybody. >> With breaking news, our lovely producer, Joey, we were just looking into whether. Elon Musk has ever had therapy. He said. this in 2024, just in case we're in. doubt. He said, "Put never went to therapy on. my gravestone.". I mean, okay. Okay, he then By the way,

he goes on to say, and this I don't know. if the two are connected, "It feels like. there's just a rage of horses in my mind. constantly.". >> Put a rage of horses on his gravestone. >> is good, Elon. That's a good bit of. writing. >> It's It's That is a great collective. noun. >> To be fair. >> Yeah, to be fair. You didn't know you. were doing it, but. >> But, um I would say. >> any times, eventually you're going to. write one good tweet. >> Yeah, that's true. But, yeah, I'd like. to explore his relationship with. weakness. >> Yeah.

>> I think that would be an interesting. thing to talk to him about. >> and Harry podcast series never happened. I would have very, very much enjoyed it. >> I would have loved that. Now, >> Now. >> talking of royalty, >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um. there are often reboots on television, and there's a particular show which. people have said for years and years and. years, "When are they going to reboot. this?" has just been rebooted. Big Break. is back. So, Big Break, which was a huge. show from um. 1991 through to 2002. I would have sworn. it started in.

>> Spending it now, are you? That's good. >> Wow. Okay, I'm not going to spend any. more of it. >> Yes, you are. >> That's a short item. >> I'm having a drink, so you're going to. have to. >> That's good. Uh 200-odd episodes uh presented by Jim. Davidson and the wonderful late John. Virgo. >> Who was Who was the royalty in the. reference rather than Jim Davidson? >> Uh yes, I think the format was the. royalty. >> Yeah. >> Really? >> But, Virgo was so amazing. >> And by the way, I will be talking about. royalties and formats in the context of. this as well. >> Ooh. So, it's all coming together. But. yes, John Virgo was was royalty in this.

context. So, yeah, Big Break is coming. back and there was a lot of hoopla about. it. Used to be Jim Davidson and John. Virgo. It's now Paddy McGuinness. >> Yeah. >> Who never saw a reboot he didn't like. And Stephen Hendry. >> The coolest man in the world. >> In my opinion. Certainly one of them. And the announcement has been well. received, I think, because people love. Paddy and Stephen Hendry is very, very. good as well. So, I think I I think it. will be. good. I just wanted to go through a. little bit about what a weird show Big.

Break is. >> Yeah. >> Where it came from, why it came about, when it came about, why it is coming. back, and the job that it is going to do. for the BBC cuz it's not the job that. people have been writing about that it's. going to do, that's for sure. So, Big. Break comes about, invented sort of in. the late '80s cuz Bullseye had been such. a big hit. And Bullseye is a simple. thing, you've got a darts player and. you've got a quizzer, and something that. the quiz does sort of affects what the. darts player does, and something that. the darts player does sort of affects. what the quizzer does. And there's. prizes. And you know, snooker was. absolutely enormous, you know, that that.

mid-'80s onwards era was so huge. At. some point somebody was going to do. Bullseye for snooker. Now, for years and years and years, the. it was credited to Terry Mardell and. Mike Kemp. But they then were sued by a. cabbie called Roger Metcalfe from. Birmingham, and had to pay him 100 grand and give. him a third of the format as well. >> Really? >> Yeah. I know, normally that's not the. case, right? Cuz what had happened was. Roger Metcalfe and Mike Kemp, who were.

friends, had said, "Oh, we should do a. Bullseye but for snooker." And so, they. had this idea. Mike Kemp knew Terry. Mardell. Now, Terry Mardell. had just had a big hit with Bob's Full. House, which is essentially bingo but as a quiz. show. And so, Mike Kemp goes, "I've got. a friend who knows how to format a TV. show.". Terry Mardell takes this in, looks at. it, even says that it was an absolute. mess, but we turned it into something. and the BBC loved it and bought it and. so it became a TV show. And it was.

credited to Terry Mardell and Mike Kemp. and Mick McManus years later said, "But. I did come up with that with Mike and we. took it to Terry." And so. he's got the money, it's good. It sounds. like no one was really trying to con. anyone, it was just one of those. >> I see. When you said a cab driver, I. thought that he he had said it to them. >> Oh, in a in a cab. No, I don't think so. Oh, can I do a sidebar? >> Yeah. >> On always. Bullseye had been a hit. >> Yeah. >> Big Break is a huge hit. So they decide, okay, well, let's do this again. We're. going to do this for golf. Uh and they. did one series. I remember seeing it at.

the time and thinking this is really. unacceptably awful. They did a show called Full Swing. with Jim Tancock. >> Oh. >> Uh where it was. >> that. >> Do you? >> Yeah. >> Oh, they did one series. >> it's the the old pro I mean, they're all. pro-am shows basically, you know. And. you know, a golf obviously you would. think would be or could in the right. hands be made for TV. >> Oh, they had that sort of, you know, that very early computer screen thing. where you hit the ball at just back. before that technology really worked.

>> This is really coming out of the memory. hole. >> A weird putting green. Their version of. the trick shot was a a sort of big. contraption. >> putting green, right? >> Yes, an in-studio putting green. They. had this big contraption where you just. tap the ball into it and it went around. lots of things and then went in the. hole. So there was no never any. jeopardy. Uh that lasted for one series. Anyway, that's just that's how TV works. Bullseye begets Big Break and that. begets Full Swing and then you never. have to do any of those ever again. So. BBC bring it back and people have been. trying to pitch this for a few years.

I've been pitched it before uh because, you know, cuz I love snooker and people. know that and I I when I was it was. mentioned to me, I was like, "It is I. love snooker. This is not the show. I. would not do this show very well. It's. not something that I would be. particularly good at." And that was I. think for five cuz five have now got. lots of the snooker. Um but the BBC have. bought it back, but they bought it back. in a very interesting way. It is for. BBC Two daytime. >> Yeah. >> Nothing is for BBC Two daytime anymore. It's 6:00 you get some. House of Games or stuff like that, but.

there is nothing now in that kind of. 2:00 p.m. till 6:00 p.m. So So it's for. BBC Two is for daytime. And what it is, and it's an object lesson in everything. has to do a number of different jobs now. if you want it to be commissioned. What they are doing, they're doing. 20 episodes of it, and it will do a. number of things for them. Firstly, it. will be a program that they can just put. out. See how it does. Just like in the old. days where you'd commission a program. and I wonder if people will watch it, and if they do, you put it out again. So they will do that, and if people love.

it, they can do a primetime version of. it. But what they're also doing is doing. it so every time. the snooker is on, and the BBC have just. signed a deal to 2032 for the World. Championships, the Masters, and the UK. Open, which are the Triple Crown events, they have this stuff absolutely ready to. go. They'll have these 20 episodes. They'll probably do another 20. They'll. probably do another 20. And it just. means when this the snooker comes on, which is a really good business for BBC. Two, they have this thing that they can. play throughout breaks in the in the. frames, which is a big deal for them.

And then can sit on iPlayer forever. And. every time the snooker is on, and people. are interested in snooker like people. get interested in tennis every time. Wimbledon's on, they have this thing on. the iPlayer. So it's one of those ones. it's not going to be expensive. Uh they certainly They used to film four. a day. They probably They probably would. again, but it will be. an accompaniment to their snooker. programming, which is nice for them. It'll be a lovely thing that sits on. iPlayer. And if people like it, suddenly. they will have a hit on their hands, and. they can put it on Saturday night. But. it's it's I I find it such a fascinating.

commission because it's not like any. other As I say, no one's commissioned. anything for BBC daytime for about for. BBC Two daytime for about eight years. And they just haven't. And now suddenly. we've got one of the biggest brands in. British TV sitting there with big big. big name hosts. And um. >> I'd like to see that chemistry. >> I think Stephen Hendry is really funny. >> Yeah. >> He really is. And Paddy is great with. people. >> I I I would really like to see him. >> Yeah. So Terry Mardell is very. interesting. He came up with this There.

are other names, but Terry was a. stand-up comic and. back in those eras in the world of light. entertainment, there were lots of. stand-up comics who sort of was started. writing gags for hosts, did warm-up. Terry Mardell did warm-up. His brother. Willie Mardell did warm-up as well. So Terry Mardell not only came up with. Bob's Full House, but he was also the. warm-up for for Bob's Full House as. well. Had a big hit show in America called. Sweethearts, which was a which was a a. sort of dating show. But the show he did. immediately after Big Break had.

interesting lineage to it. So he had. this hit with Big Break and suddenly. America gets interested in Bob's Full. House. So Terry Mardell goes out to. Hollywood, signs up with William Morris, the biggest agency. He first person he. meets is a junior guy called Mark. Aitken, who did not stay junior for. long. Is fated out in Hollywood. America decides to do their version of. Bob's Full House. So he goes from Big. Break. with Jim Davidson and John Virgo.

to the American version of Bob's Full. House. And there's a clue in the name here, which is called Trump Card. And it is filmed at. Trump Castle Casino in Las Vegas. And. the first episode, absolutely front and. center in it, is Donald Trump. But yeah, so Terry Mardell went straight from Pots. of Money Balls as you can to the future. president of the United States. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> Oh, I really need to see an episode of. Trump Card. >> Trump Card. Yeah. >> That's not one of the casinos he somehow. can drive to bankrupt.

>> Yes. >> Oh, it is one of them. >> Absolutely was. Yeah, it's now the I. think it's the Golden Nugget now. Yeah. So yeah, Big Break is back. It's I've read a couple of things. saying, "Oh, it's just going to be trick. shots." Which is not. It's going to be. exactly pretty much exactly the same as. the previous one. Quizzes and and and. potting will be a bit different. And genuinely, I think, how lovely. You. know, I'm looking forward to seeing it. already. And it But the reason they're. commissioning is because it gives it's. it's a really great thing to go with. their commitment to. snooker. And so, they might as well have. a have a punt at it. And if I was Paddy,

I think Paddy's the perfect person for. it. I would not But But he definitely. is. And Hendry will be great, too. Even. though he's on the first ever ever ever. episode of Big Break, Stephen Hendry. Yeah, doing very badly, as well. I'm. sure he'll be the first to admit it. Yeah. >> Okay. That's really fun. Okay, well, I'm. looking forward to that. I'll see how. that works. >> We're now going to talk about the Cannes. Film Festival, which is happening now. You'll have a film festival, in the case. of Cannes, all films from all the way. around the world are submitted. The.

festival programmers pick a small. number, some of which are shown in. competition, some out of competition. And those are And the ones in. competition are judged. And at the same. time, there are lots of other screenings. of things, not all finished, some. partially finished, independent stuff. that needs more funding or. needs distribution or whatever. Um so, it's sort of an art festival and sort of. a kind of meat market for films. Um and. in Cannes, they have a festival director. who's been there 25 years. He's called.

Thierry Frémaux. They Because it's. France, they call him the general. delegate. >> Plus city. >> You know, and he's got lots of views. about things. Like, he won't show. Netflix films if they because of the. theatrical window. This is the business. of Yeah, well, the French are so. committed to Well, if you go you know, if you walk past a cinema in Paris, they. have so many you know, they've got a. real commitment to showing French films. And they have obviously a very long. theatrical window. And they're very. committed to kind of keeping their art. kind of non-globalized to some degree. That percentage of it.

>> They love French films in France. Over. there, they call them films, right? >> Yeah. I mean, it's mad. They don't even. know what they've got. >> Like I even like French food in France, they call it. >> They call it food. >> food. >> It's so odd. It's one of the things I. couldn't get my head around while I was. there. The thing about the Cannes Film. Festival is that it sort of signified, and I know you're thinking were the. Oscars not 15 minutes ago, and in a way. they were because they were in March, but it sort of in this period in May. signified the start of the awards. campaign and the sort of prestige. economy. >> And.

>> also, you would have maybe a big splashy. premiere of a Hollywood film that's not. in competition, but it's kind of like, "Oh, here we are. We're going to show. a Star Wars film or a something else.". And you might And you might also have. people such as Quentin Tarantino showing. a big film, and then it will win one of. their big prizes, and you can sort of. feel like over here the juggernaut. begins. Um but this year is notable for. something quite shocking. There are no. US studio films, and even people like. Focus Features, A24 are not taking any. films. >> They should call it the Film. Festival.

>> Yeah, it's different in French, though. >> Oh, yeah. >> Um and another thing I couldn't get my. head around. So, it's They haven't even got a sort of. splashy premiere tied to release. I. mean, they've definitely not got The. Odyssey, which we know that's coming. out. They haven't got the Spielberg. film. There's all these people have big. ties to Cannes. They haven't got. the Alejandro Iñárritu film with Tom. Cruise Todd Digger that's coming out. later in the year. They haven't got any. of these things. So, why is the. question? >> Why? >> Um and the answer really is because of. risk. Um it's May. The studios are now.

so in a kind of completely connected. online world. It is so different. I. mean, I've talked to people who take. things to Cannes and just said, "It is. so stressful. You know immediately. whether your thing that you've lavished. all your love and attention whatever and. money crucially, which we'll get to, has. worked." You can just feel it. It's in. the air. It's in the response. People are saying, "No, that's not going. to run." And it's, you know, it's May, and you somehow got to get your stars. out there. >> Yeah. >> if they're on an awards campaign all the. way till next March.

>> So it's a tough school. >> So yeah, studios mostly want to keep. their awards movies to the final third. of the year. So that you might the the. Venice Film Festival is in September. So. that's better. But if you look at last year, you know, there was real potential for damage. films that people at Cannes films that. people thought were going to be big like. Die My Love or Eddington, they sort of. something went wrong and and people. thought, oh these aren't going to work. And there's something about the critics. the French critics particularly, but.

also lots of the by the way everything. gets a sort of as you know and a. ridiculously long standing ovation, which is completely completely. meaningless. The critics however are. meaningful and they can be quite harsh. it and it's a really uncontrollable. environment. >> So so it used to be that the absolute. key thing in all these industries is. buzz and this was the absolute place to. get early buzz, but now. >> It's gorgeous, isn't it? You've got the. cause that you've got the thing. It's. it's Cannes. It costs a million to take a film.

to to Cannes. So. >> that's just the popcorn. >> Yeah, you've got to stage the premiere. You've got to take the stars and all the. people around them. You've got to have. all their travel accommodation. You've. got to have the marketing around it. because it can't just sort of happen. There have to be other stuff happening. >> Jetski trips. >> Yeah, yeah, the various things. Yeah, get me off this yacht helicopters. >> Yes. >> That sort of thing. But there's so much. now that can go wrong. If you look at. the Berlin Festival earlier this year. where lots of journalists were asking. stars to to reveal their positions on.

Israel and Gaza. You know, why would you. not retreat, which is what they're all. doing now into an arena where it is far. more that's far more protective of your. talent and you're a much more able to. control it and your overall investment. in a film which is quite an expensive. activity is protected. So it's all about. control. You know, and to some extent. you'll say, oh well, maybe then these. festivals can become what they were, which is that a mass what people have. you know, cuz they have to find a. positive. Do they become things that surface great. international films and celebrate.

European and international films, but. actually they do need the studios, but. they're going to have to find a way of. dealing with something that you can't. something can't derail it. The one thing. that's in their favor is that stars have. to be beyond persuaded that they don't. want this. To say. >> Cuz they like to go to Cannes and. Venice. >> But the star wants their movie to start. in either Cannes or Venice and they sort. of prefer Cannes because it's just it's. just the sort of in their head the primo.

brand. There's no particular reason for. that. >> But like but legacy. >> Yeah, legacy. >> They grew up watching people at the. Cannes Film Festival. >> and then you have to try and dissuade. them of the fact that they really really. want to be put in an uncontrolled. environment where their film could be it. might not be. since the film won't be probably coming. out till October that you don't want to. be put in that environment where you. could say the wrong thing or you could. just not say anything and your silence. would be violence or whatever it is. >> usually pretty easy to persuade actors. to do something they don't want to do. >> Yeah.

Yes, but I think the fact that everybody. has managed to do it this time around, you know, and what they do do when they. when they bring them out in a different. way and they don't go via these big. festivals is that they bring them out. and they have you know, there's a. controlled access and I think there's a. fundamental difference between allowing. critics to see the film and just say. what they think about them. And people. honestly expecting people to have a view. on every little piece of or big piece of. global politics or everything that's. going on in a country at the time or. everything to have making everyone have.

a view of this in a press conference in. your film about whatever it is. >> Then you got to hear what Elon Musk's. got to say about it. >> Yeah. Just ask him about rockets. >> Yeah, but the basic yeah, the base the. basic principle is if you really care. about something you spend a long time on. on it and you're worried about whether. it's good or not, do not choose the first group of people. you show it to to be French. Because they will not be polite if they. don't like it. >> Well, no, I mean that it's the only. international critics kind of there's a. sort of pride in lots of that. Um but.

it's just a long haul. The award season. now is so those campaigns go on for 9. months and if you start now they're sort. of going on for. a. 10 months. >> Yeah. But it But yeah, so they're trying. to control for while, you know, the film. is in your screening rooms and your edit. and with your PR, you can control, control, control, control. The second it. is out in the world, whatever you planned, whatever momentum. you planned, that can be.

derailed. And so try and derail it as. late as possible in the process. >> Yes, or or it's less likely to be. derailed. They're quite sort of down and. dirty the festivals in some way. And. you've got lots and lots of rooms and. people are sitting on a stage and people. could ask them anything, but I I just. think it's become a matter of risk. It's. It's so expensive to do all these. things. Never mind the cost of taking it. there. The film itself is so expensive. and it's whether you just want to expose. it to being torn down. in many cases.

8 months before release, never mind. before the award ceremony or whatever it. is you think you're going for. Leave. that to one side. It's the idea that you. just can't you you just can't sustain it. after that and it sort of falls off the. screen. >> I'd rather launch in Venice. >> I I for people I know who go to Venice. they say it's it's so much that Cannes. is awful and it's so much better. Um and it's a it's a much more lovely. affair, yeah. >> Um we've covered a lot of ground this. week, haven't we? Can we both I think. we're both going to give the same. recommendation this week, which we. should did last week with Legends, which.

by the way have now finished and is even. better than I said it was last week. But. this week Rivals is back. We can't. recommend anything else other than that. >> Actually, no, I can't. I Okay, first of all, yes, we recommend. rivals. I will recommend. the new video for the new Harry Styles. single dance no more. There's a lot of. dancing in it. >> What happens in it? >> A lot of dancing. >> Okay, but you like it? >> it. >> Okay, I'm going to be doing that as soon. as we finish. Not dancing, watching. Harry Styles dance. >> Yeah, you can't compete. >> I don't dance after I'm no Dominic.

Sandbrook but I don't but I don't dance. immediately after a podcast. >> Right, we will be back on Thursday with. a Q&A. Then tomorrow the first in a special. bonus series. >> I'm very excited about this. >> It's so cool. Okay, I am talking to. James Canagasabey who is a brilliant. pollster. Brilliant at politics but also because. he's plugged into all the currents and. opinions and things that shape our. culture. We're going to be talking I'm. doing a series with him talking to him. about six absolutely fascinating topics.

and the one that's coming out tomorrow. and everyone can listen to this this. first one is about tradwives and. tradwife content. >> Amazing. >> It's really interesting. There's so much. stuff in there that you will like. anyway, Richard. >> Yeah, so that's going to be for the. members but the first one just to cuz. it's absolutely for everybody. So if you. can like it and I have yet to hear it. but I've heard you talk about it and I'm. very very excited to hear it as well. >> It's really cool. Okay, so if you want to join it's the rest of. his entertainment.com. Everyone can. listen to that tomorrow. Otherwise, see.

you on Thursday. >> See you on Thursday.