CELEBRITY TRAITORS FINAL: LIVE REACTION

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Hello and welcome to this live stream. traitor reaction episode of the rest is. entertainment. I'm Marina Hyde and I'm. here with Tim HS who's made more reality. TV than you can imagine and who always. gives me a masterclass in it. Tim, a. faithful win. >> Extraordinary. And may I just say I'm. delighted to be here. Thank you. I feel. a little bit for your audience like it's. turning up at the theater saying the. part of Richard Osman is played by Tim.

Hinks and they're thinking, [laughter]. "Oh god, that's not what I paid my money. for." But I'll do my best. But what a. wonder. Yeah. faithful win and I think. as we were saying just before we went on. air we should really just devote this. whole podcast to James Blunt. >> Yeah. I mean it's okay. First of all we. must say you know Bash who became the. player that all right from the start we. sort of felt he could be because he was. so sort of smart and circumspect. Romesh. who we felt the path to victory could. only run through if they were to ever. have a victory. >> But yeah a word for our third uh fallen.

James Blunt who just found one more way. to be wrong. The best tradition of. reality shows, you know, it's not like. with One Direction so on, it's not the. winners, right? It's the people who came. closer. And I I was thinking so many. things about James. One is that at the. towards the end there, he said, "I loved. trying to work it out." I thought that's. surely on his gravestone, isn't it? Cuz. he loved the trying of it. And I I mean, just to be confessional for a minute, I. a few years ago, Marina, I'm going to. share this with you. I had a little dog. who we had to put down. And on the day. he was due to be put down, the Amazon. delivery driver came and and little Ace.

ran up and started jumping up and. thought, "Not today. Not today." I feel. like with James, it was never the right. day for him to go, but we knew that day. would come, right? The little puppy. >> It It really And you He was like a. puppy. It was what we we'll get to the. end game, but it was extraordinary going. through that many banishments [gasps]. >> and Kenny is gone. >> No. And of course Kenny who at certain. point um sort of threequarters of the. way through I turned to one of your. producers said I think this is going the. way that we all think it's going which.

is Kenny's going to make it to the to. the final and and you know to the last. three or whatever and of course there. was a wonderful twist and the thing. about this whole as you and Richard have. talked about throughout this. The thing. here is that none of it's about gameplay. or technical knowledge or brilliant. strategy. It's about the chaos of this. particular series and they sort of won. the faithfuls as they'd played all the. way through which is in utter chaos. blindly sort of feriting around looking. for clues and they guess what sometimes. you can be right even though you're very. wrong. >> It I feel like we have to we know the.

destination but we better go back and. see how on earth they got there. It's. [clears throat] not entirely clear how. they got there. Uh we began you did they. began with a sort of montage and you. were like oh my god remember my hara. that seems for them it's 10 days but it. must have felt like about 3 months ago. >> I think that's one of the amazing things. about the way time works it seems to. with these sorts of shows is that and. the task that you come to later where. they had to work out who went out first. and all the rest of it did feel like. another series. That's amazing. And I. think you you just end up falling in.

love with the people who are right in. front of you. And so, you know, I let's. go back to the beginning as you say, but. I feel now slightly bereff because I. know that tomorrow night I'm not. spending time with these people. And I. really miss that. They've been they've. been incredible. But yeah, >> people have people have made all sorts. of fusses about this show and all sorts. and other people have said, "No, no, that's how the game plays out. It plays. out differently every time. The format. is kind of flawed and croaky, but we. love it.". >> Um, I did. Yeah, it was. We should begin. actually right in the turret when um. right after James A. Kuster's bombshell.

>> and uh Kenny says that was absolute. chaos. He was so good at one point. [laughter]. >> It's the way he. >> some of the lines in this. >> Yeah, I think he said we were so good at. one point, didn't he? And then he talked. about the the the chaos that they're all. in. And of course, it's such a because. this has been such a particularly. strange series, I think, because you've. never known where the center of gravity. is. And again it's worth saying as we. celebrate the final of this you know the. Richie Grant earlier you know at the. very beginning it was the sort of. butterfly that flapped its wings right. and it carried on giving that um a and I.

feel that so there there are the. traitors who've you know to some extent. finally got their act together they. don't have James anymore who we love him. right but he wasn't the best traitor as. he as that's the whole point of James. and it just goes away from them and they. can feel it and I felt particularly in. this episode I saw Maya for the first. time looking a bit lost Not just because. she later on gets some heat, but just. she seemed a bit less in control of of. of the narrative and what was happening. >> Yes, it was that they were running out. of choices that were were any good. She.

had to they had to get rid of Michael, which is what they did. >> Uh but you could feel her all the way. feeling it was slipping away and that. she couldn't really see a pathway for. herself anymore. She'd had I think she'd. had so much heat and she was so tied to. him in a way. And because he'd said, "I. didn't spray the perfume.". >> Yes. >> He he let he fingered two of them. It. had to be one of And there's something. about Kenny that they could they. couldn't until right at the end suspect.

>> I think there's a there's a theme often. I watch this and think about if they. were sort of representing you in court, you know, and so as you say, James. Acaster for all the chaos and the fact. he didn't want said something very. legalistic, which is, you know, and and. I think he said in another episode, I. will never tell a lie. So, so it was. absolutely true that he didn't spray the. perfume and you're right that left a. sort of big question mark and I think. you see that a few times in this I mean. I would say you know later on I'm we. were obsessed with James let's not jump. here but James at a certain point says. well I think that and he says but of.

course I'm never actually right and you. think imagine that was your barristister. and that was the sort of note they were. giving you. Yeah. Yeah. I'm on your side. but I mean I have no idea if if I can. help you win but I I think yeah you. could feel the traitors that the earth. was shifting a bit in that in that. opening turret couldn't you? >> Yes. And there were certain and then. outside of it there were things like. quite a lot of Leanne not understanding. why she was here anymore and I'm afraid. that she is an absolutely classic. example of if you're asking why you're. still there at the end of the traitors. it's because you're not any threat to. anybody if I can put it euphemistically.

and she is not she was not a threat. >> to anybody but it you I mean as you you. said to me just before we uh came on to. this finals are really hard. You've made. lots of these. You've got you've. basically got an hour and 20 minutes of. television there and then. >> Yeah. >> And you've really got that amazing bit. around the the fire pit. >> Yeah. You you've got a strange I think. um uh issue which is you're extending. it. It was an hour and 20 I think. tonight, wasn't it? So you normally. extend the final and that's really.

because the final is so important and. because that's what we've been waiting. for. But it's sort of the one you least. want to extend because actually you just. want to know how does it, you know, who's won. And of course, brilliantly. tonight, you had a really wonderful. staggered sort of staggering towards the. finish line. It worked really, really. well. But finals are hard and I think it. was about 58 minutes or so that we got. our round table. You know, it took a. long time to get there and there's lots. of stuff going on. Um, so yeah, they're. hard to get right, but I thought they. did I mean I should say like throughout. this whole series they they've all done. brilliantly. you know the teams behind.

this made it made it look very very uh. premium and you know the task which I. know we'll come. >> the mandatory helicopter you have to. have a helicopter in it if you don't. there that's BBC helicopters can only. like follow a chancellor to like. precisely one compass point from number. 11 to the to the budget. >> or they can have my jama hanging out the. side of them. >> which they certainly did I think we saw. in a Bond film if she doesn't get a Bond. audition after Yes. Yeah. I mean, I.

think there's close competition with. James for the role of Blonde of Bond, I. would say. But uh and even Rom, but. we'll come to all that. Um but no, the. the the the task itself, which we got to. am I jumping ahead, but the task, you. know, was just a bit of fun and games. and really uh didn't get take us. anywhere, right, other than it was. celebration. >> Yeah. It allowed us to see James Blunt. saying things like, "Roger that moving. out." I I thought the most touching. moment was when Bash sort of jumped out. the helicopter into the freezing water. and James said really plaintively, "He's. such an action man." And I thought he.

really wanted to do that, didn't he, James? That's his moment, right? Like he. can do that stuff. >> Yeah. He did a bit of hurt locker stuff. with some of the explosions and what. have you. >> Yeah, it's true. Um, but I and then but. you but you could tell that Maya by this. stage was despite all her heroics in. that and all her like just give her a. bonart already. She she was she's so. good in her master interviews. She's got. more screen time than almost anyone. because what she understands. instinctively the rhythms of this kind. of television. So she knows what to say.

in all and I know they're very they ask. you leading questions so you say the. right things that help them with the. stories. But she is on screen so often. because she's just instinctively. brilliant at those. >> Yeah. And I think, you know, I would say. looking back, I would take traitors are. gonna trade. Traitor is going to trade, right? One of the great and she's just, as you say, has has a has a way of. putting. But I think there's no. question, you know, we talked um earlier. about how, you know, these are big. famous people, big celebrities doing a. reality show, which very hard to book. people like this. And one of the reasons. traitors is is such an attractive or has.

been such an attractive um pool for them. is that it's a fun game and everyone. loves to play, but it's actually really. intense in there. And I think tonight in. the final you could see whether it was. James getting a bit snarky with Rom in. the vote later when he sort of. >> No, but it was more it was. extraordinary. It was so extreme. And. actually he would have convinced by that. reaction alone he convinced Ramish that. there was nothing to worry about with. him. But then he couldn't help getting. in his own way for one last time. >> I mean, we should come to that because. we'll come to we'll come to Yeah, we'll.

do that. Yeah, we'll do that afterwards. But yes, so once there then they've got. a bit of time where they can sort of say. each other and who's who's who's who it. might be. >> Maya saying to Kenny, I know you weren't. fighting for me in there. >> Incredible. >> It was all foreshadowed, but you knew it. was going to happen. And that's what's. so brilliant about things like this is. that they do say it and it's real and. it's in the moment. >> but there's people are becoming so sort. of literate with the edits now that when.

you see that you're like oh wow he's. going to vote for her. >> Yeah. No totally. And I think you know. we were worried yesterday that there was. just such an easy route through for for. Kenny and the question was would he the. way through was to was to jettison right. and and of course as you say they they. tease that brilliantly. Again, when. you're making a show like this, and. they've done this brilliantly and. consistently all the way through, you. obviously retrofit it and what are the. big stories and I think they gave James. Blunt, as we said, a brilliant ride. tonight. It was just a wonderful thing. to watch his his story. And I think the.

mer of it was brilliantly done as well. because you could gradually see the. cracks start to appear. And when she's. under the kosher bit at the round table, actually she does a thing that she. hadn't done before and and you should. never do, which is just look a bit upset. and hurt that they're suggesting that. you might be rather than come up with. the evidence. You know, >> she I wrote in here, she talked too. much. It reminded me of when I was sort. of younger and you're trying to convince. someone that you're not drunk, so you. just keep trying to talk in a really. normal voice and actually shut up.

>> She Yeah, it was really It was I found. that hard to watch. She she just. explained too much. >> She said too much. And I think you had. Ro in various. You had Rom who was an. amazing inquisitor and really calm and. you didn't want to disappoint him and I. felt he was a bit disappointed, you. know, and so he was brilliant at sort of. drawing it out. You had um you know. James who was a sort of made Columbo. look sort of like super super efficient. and and on it. He he. >> there was a point where he said by the. way I don't know the answers. Yeah. No, I know. And then another So I've been. trying to think what's going on as you.

said. >> Yeah. No, he he he's he so so so you. felt Maya was it was gradually slipping. away and as you say one of the joys of. this show is you can see yourself I mean. they're just constantly getting into. trouble with people and and that feeling. I felt really bad for her. I mean, not. quite as bad as as um Sharon the other. night, you know, but it felt like, oh. god, I'm really losing this. And. actually, when someone she said at one. point that I've been I've had brothers, you know, so I know how to defend. myself. And you're thinking, got it. But. the thing is, you are tra you have done. wrong. Like there is no way through.

this. You are absolutely a traitor. And. once they can smell it, there was a. little bit of the return of the herd, wasn't there, in. >> there? Yeah. I mean, the herd they've. they found it hard to shake off the. herd. But there was that amazing shot of. Kenny and it's really amazing. We talk. about it as though you're watching. something that someone has built up so. beautifully over sort of, you know, six. seasons of Breaking Bad, but it's. actually the shot of Kenny just hesitant. and you know he's writing down Maya was. so good. >> No. No. And it was almost like that was. reminiscent of what it's like when the.

traitors go to the turret, right? You. don't know who they're writing. Suddenly. out of nowhere, exactly as you say, you. have this moment where you're thinking. this is going to decide or not decide. It seemed like again we don't know what. really happened. You know, this is what. the edit meant that he hadn't said very. much. So it's quite surprising people. didn't sort of say you know I was saying. he's the glider right we my I mean he. glides like you know you know and I and. I think that he he his that moment was a. really key moment again I'm thinking. that because a final is really hard to. deliver it's hard to keep the tension. going it's is that that was a really.

helpful moment for the producers because. you thought oh my god the vote's gone so. that can you know and of course they. came to him last and that was a really. important moment to help you really. think there's some jeopardy here and he. did what we thought would do which is. yeah. >> it was she it was an amazing exit. She. looked at him absolutely daggers. I. again you don't know what makes the edit. where the other people thought oh okay. >> right right. >> that maybe that helps the next time you. have to vote for Kenny. >> I mean Kenny's interesting because he. does a couple of things. He later on in. the show he does the let's let's stop. the let's stop the endg game. You know a.

bit [clears throat] like with the double. dagger switch. He's done a couple of. things where we think oh Kenny but he is. so I mean I know you did a big shout out. for Rom yesterday and declared you know. Absolutely. got him and I I think I'm. not going to say Kenny like I just I. want to be him right if I could. He is. he's so charming. He's got such a. brilliant look. He looks absolutely like. in butterwood and and they c they caught. him in the in in one of the cars didn't. they were coming back from the chat when. I can't remember who they were talking. about him saying if you're a trader. you've played a great game and he did a.

smile that was so charming. >> His smile was so cool. become like, "Hi, you've just we're aware that he's a big. star on YouTube, but he's just rocketed. up every category of mainstream. stardom.". >> Totally. Totally. >> It's it's extraordinary. Um, well, we. are going to we're going to have to get. to the end game after. >> after uh our advert break. >> already. We're at a break. >> We're close to an advert break, but we. will we will we'll we should take a look.

at Maya leaving and saying, "Good luck. you're going to need it. What do you. think? Do you think that was Do you. think that was the daggers look she gave. and saying good luck, you're going to. need it. That was read as a bombshell by. them all. >> I think it's really interesting. Right. So, one of the things you would think. about when you're making the show is. what if someone says something outrage. like James did, right? Which is, oh, by. the way, okay, fine. I'm a traitor. And. one of the things you think particularly. when it's very intense is what if they. just say, do you know what? he's a, you.

know, and she didn't say that, but she I. mean, I thought she was on the journey. to that, right? She looked really angry. She looked really pissed off. She looked. like she'd been betrayed, which she had. been. And it felt very much like she was. getting close to saying, "Okay, here's. my little parting gift.". >> It was a parting gift. We will return to. the endame after the break. >> [music]. >> This episode is brought to you by our. friends at Lloyds.

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Welcome back everybody. Now we return to. the higher stakes of the end game. So. after after they after Mia had left, they had a another banishment. Um Leanne. voted for Romesh, but everybody else. returned to the herd and voted for. Leanne. Um and she was gone. >> At which point,

banish again. They they'd had the chance. to banish again and they throwing their. pouches in and Romesh says, "I think. it's you, James.". >> Yeah. And he is really cross. James. Blunt is devastated. He he is genuinely. he can't actually believe it. >> No, >> he is like a million memes. >> But I think that he's definitely like a. million memes. I think what's brilliant. about James is is is that part of him is. you feel he's very easy to work out. He's this sort of posh guy who sort of.

is is is sort of a really good decent. sort. And but there's so much more to. him. And I think you saw a flash of. anger and whatever that was when he said. I've done it like a true faithful or you. know when he did the Yeah. And he he. clearly looked. >> that would be a faithful act. >> There you go. That would be a faithful. act. So he felt but at the same time. he's willing to say as he has as. throughout um I'm absolutely hopeless at. this but I'm having a jolly good go. And. it is um I think you said yesterday on. the there's a sort of class thing going. on. Absolutely. There always is in the. best British reality shows and most of.

us might go like well I'm a bit rubbish. at this so I'll shut up. He's like no on. we go. And and I but but I think there's. a there's you know there there he he he. was a bit angry at that point and I I. think that was one of the interesting. things about the whole final. People. were um there was anger there. Rom. showed some flashes of it. Maya. certainly as we've said James you know. they were all it was very very intense. and and of course James as we know um. like lost in the way that he played all. the way through in a he wronged himself. to death. >> Yeah. >> Auto wronging. Do you think Kenny by.

voting in that thing to end the game, do. you think that's almost a tell that it's. like, "Oh, I'm so close. I'm so close. I. I can't.". >> Do Do you think he swed a seed? >> Yeah. I I I think that this is perhaps a. bit like the double dagger change. Um. Kenny occasionally does something where. where you sort of think, okay, there. there he's human. And I suspect what he. was thinking was like, "This is tense. This is difficult. I'm carrying this on. my own. I've already murdered my best. friend." and I think I'm home. And I.

think it's a bit like when you do the. marathon or something that those last. few yards you can go to pieces, right? We see people collapse. And I think he. slightly collapsed as he could see the. finish line and it Yeah, that was that. was a that was a mistake. >> So they then there's another banishment. vote. >> and it split between um James Blunt and. Kenny. >> Um and finally they Bash has stopped. hering. I thought, "Oh my gosh, he's. going to hurt now as well." But he. didn't.

>> And James' reaction was so extreme that. I think I think it would it was enough. to sway Romesh. Like it was he couldn't. >> Yeah. >> I don't think he's a good enough actor. to have created that. >> Um. >> and so then the the vote for Kenny. >> Yeah. I mean I think I think the Kenny. twist let's is was wonderful because. again you felt that you knew which way. it was going to go and then you got this. wonderful turnaround with with you know.

in a way see this is why I think I mean. like lots of these the traitors which. has been so wonderful what we know is if. I can take you back to Julie all those. years ago she was on traitors unccloaked. and said what do you think and what do. you think about your experience and she. said you know what you know nothing in. this life that was what she said and I. thought That is the thing traitors if. traitors tells us about life which of. course all the best reality shows do. right and it's like how should you live. you know should you be quiet and go. quite should you make your point and. risk being you know as we know being.

voted out as it were and then you the. other thing you take from it is. everybody's a hero sometimes this is. what I think everybody has their moments. and Bash had his moment right I mean. >> but right from the start we've always. thought it's very it's miles more hard. for the younger players for people who. come from shows that might have been. popular with a much younger demographic. but are not like oh I'm an established. big star that everybody knows. >> and they have to and Kenny had a little. line about it um earlier in this episode. where he said I've been trying to build.

confidence but build trust and build. alliances because he knew yes. >> does we've seen that you know the. YouTubers going last time Niko got. picked off really early because it's. like who is this guy I don't really know. who he is it doesn't matter he feels. expendable and you know if you're a. young person from a kind of world that. isn't their type fame that that can. happen to you. >> So, those two both had to work really. hard to just kind of be there on their. own terms and they aced it. >> Um, but it was it was interesting. watching Bash finally sort of like. become who you could tell right from the.

start that he was clever and really. switched on and [clears throat] he. managed to become that in the final. episode. >> And I think you're so right. I think. that if I can take you back, as I knew. you'd want to, to Fame Academy, Celebrity Fame Academy, I knew you want. me to do and when we're getting the what. was called the student vote, which is. celebrities had to look each other in. the eye and say, "I'm voting you out. because this they all there was a there. was a revolution at the beginning." They. didn't want to do that, you know, and in. the end we made, you know, they agreed. that it was helpful to the format, but. that was back then celebrities telling. each other, "I'm not It's still kind of. the case that, you know, saying to.

Romesh, who's a huge star, if you're. bash, that I think you might be a. traitor." This is this is what James was. so brilliant at. He was so brilliant at. sort of I think you're a traitor and. some go someone sort of basically saying. do you he said no no no no I I'm. probably wrong you know and even he. found it sort of somewhat you know. intimidating so it's really hard to take. those big dogs out as you've said many. many times but Bash had his moment for. sure and and I think that as we say that. that that whole endgame complicated. though it is on one level as these. things always are when you explain it it. worked like a dream actually because it.

allowed this shifting landscape didn't. it. >> it was so good this time and you've seen. other times where can end up being I. don't want to say a damp squib when. there's a fire pit there, but you know. what I mean. But uh but this time and. you knew it was going to happen that. Bash would vote to end the game, Robert. would vote to end the game and then oh. my gosh, he would have to vote to. continue and say I'm so sorry we did it. He looks variously like a sort of Tory. MP who's sort of saying like I really. didn't do it and make you know you sort. of think well maybe you didn't do it and.

and and he he's sort of he's incredibly. puppyish and it could only be you know. if anyone was going to basically be at. the finish line and said just before I. get to the finish line I'm just going to. shoot myself on the head. Is that okay? You think oh god that sounds like that. sounds like James for sure. >> Oh my god. And Claudia said, "You have. been," she told everyone else they were. brilliant. And this is not, she's not. throwing shade, but she said, "You've. been the most extraordinary player.". Like, incredibly, we could not use a. word that could imply any form of skill. >> He said, "I love the moments where I got.

something right.". >> Well, I'd like to see a super cut of. them. >> It's it's so rare that you could think, well, he of course he did occasionally a. light on right on, you know, as we know, you know, he's sort of on on people, but. he never quite The trouble with James or. in this game is he didn't believe. himself. So that's the slight he you. know he couldn't convince himself that. he was right but it was a absolutely. perfect way to end. And as I said to you. before this is not really relevant to to. the story or anything but I am obsessed. that James part of his attraction to me. is that he sounds like a podcast that.

sometimes speeds up. He has a way of. speaking that he's usually on one times. and then occasionally he's on 1.8 and. he'll just suddenly talk like this and. just talk quickly and you're not aware. why or how. I think it's when he's a bit. under pressure maybe he does that but. he's the most lovable. I mean I don't. know him so I don't but on this show the. most lovable and and the most memorable. character in a way of of of of the show. of the end anyway of. >> but he left it all out there on the. floor and actually I thought it was. quite interesting that um. that Maya said I'm you know I'm proud. I've been composed throughout which I.

thought was given how much. [clears throat] the noise around this. series has been that there has been. >> and I think I do think we should. actually talk about this a bit because. it it is such a and I think there'll be. more stories coming out in the um papers. at the weekend about you know how much. sort of drama that we didn't see there. was it's difficult for a show like by. the way this is rated beyond anything. completely and it's done and people. saying oh they've ruined it it's like. yeah you'll all be back in January and. so will I and you'll be back for this.

celebrity version next October but. there's a thing with any format is you. know you you'll tell me even you'll know. even better than me but when the. audience starts becoming literate and. they start realizing Hang on a second. That was a weird edit or I didn't see. something there. And I think in this. series, people have just felt like there. have been lacunai. There have been. missing p did I miss a page? Did I miss. a meeting? What happened here? [clears throat]. >> Yes. >> Um and I think that that's it is tricky. if people think that they because it.

doesn't, as you say, it doesn't it. doesn't try to be big brother. You know, you're not trying to get a sort of. 24-hour or I'm a celebrity where you're. sort of supposed to be able to get the. true rhythm of the day. you they do. leave stuff out, but I do think that. some people feel like, well, I've been, you know, hoodwinkedked here and I'd. like to, you know, and they've taken. stuff out. >> Yeah, I I I think that's right. I think. that, as you say, you know, and and I. know you've mentioned many people in. this this this podcast in relation to. this. There's Mike Cotton and Sarah Fay. who are the two execs on this.

>> Yeah. >> show and I think honestly they've done. an amazing job. And so I think as we're. about clearly I'm about to say something. that sort of raises a couple of. questions that's why I'm giving them. lots of praise, but they deserve it. It's been fantastic. Huge hit and I. think it'll get bigger in January. You. know, it'll keep growing. >> What what's interesting to me is that. you can always see one day in a in a. galaxy far far away this show will not. be working suddenly, right? So, it. happens to all shows and I'm talking. about years ahead, right? And and you'll. still be doing your podcast the richer, but other than that, the world will be a. very very different place.

>> And you can see some of the seeds of it. now. And that's what those producers. will be thinking about how to make sure. it lasts for long. And so there are. certain things about it that that. whether it's Richard Egot and whether. it's a traitor who says I'm a traitor, we're in love with the show at the. moment. We're all we're in love and. we're having a great time in the show. So we're forgiving it everything. And so. it allows for huge amounts of. entertainment partly because we want it. to be. One day there'll be a Richard E. Grant moment in years to come and you'll. go like it just doesn't this show's a. bit weird because he's just said he's a. traitor. That's not right. You know, but. at the moment it's all working. You're.

right that one of the things about this. it's not even live. You know, I was. thinking that if the if you retrofit, if. the BBC said now, if Kate Phillips and. the team there said, "Right, this is. what we want. We want a reality show. that can be a celebrity as well as a. civilian version. We want it to go out. at 8:00. Um, we want it to go on for. sort of three or four weeks. And by the. way, we're talking about breakout. We're. not interested in drag race. We're. talking about like 10 million people.". You'd be thinking, "Come on." Like, seriously, there's so many things that. are wrong with that. BBC doing reality. is really hard, you know, because it.

reality is generally dating, sexual, you. know, intercourse. Did I just say that. on the podcast? I just said it, Marina. I just said it. And and so you're. thinking, okay, BBC, what's it about. buying a house? What could it be at. 8:00? You know, and yet it turns out, oh. my god, they've absolutely struck gold. This works perfectly. And you're right, there are so many imperfections in it. I. know you and Richard have talked, I. mean, you you you've talked about the. sort of what's the point of voting out. traders, which of course true. And of. course the flaw really is that it needs. to go on for eight nine episodes cuz if. you just waited till it finished it.

would you know but but but it's got to. fit a TV schedule rest of it. >> So so there's all sorts of issues and. one of them you're right is that every. now and again you think sorry is that. the rule? Um you know even in the end. game there is it could Rom and Bash. could they have separately voted and. then just got rid of the other two and. left those two? You know I don't know. the answers. We live in a conspiracist. era and people are more suspicious of. the hidden hand of everything. And I. definitely think that because people. know that there were sort of off camera.

meltdowns on the show that they have. asked like you know what else happened. and what I I think it was such a I I it. seems strange to say it was a very. peculiar series of the show because. they're all peculiar and that is the. nature of the format. It plays out in a. different way every time. >> but it had a real mood. >> Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Well, I I think. it had I think exactly and I think you. know as you say there's lots of talk of. who melted down all the rest of it. I. think we know you know and I think there. was a really intense uh shoot this one. and you know as you say every series. needs to be different. You need the one.

that nearly fell off air. You need the. one that was perfect, you know. So, so, so I think that's all part of the course. and the format is so good. It can it can. withstand it. But I think what happened. as you've discussed on the on this. podcast, what happened is the Richardy. Grant was the moment that that the. butterfly that flapped its wings. It. just basically never I'm going to say. never recovered. I mean, it got big. better and better, but it never quite. was able to to find its feet. It was. sort of Bambi on ice. I I I do believe I. know everyone knows about the Rich Die. Grant moment. I know we all know it and. we talk about it, but I sort of feel I.

mean I don't know if I'm this is this. could work. Marina, you know lots of. people in high places. I sort of believe. Andy Bernham might go for this which is. I think every hour on the hour we should. show to the British public like one of. those emergency things on your phone. just the clip of Richard Grant because. it makes me so happy when I watch it. It. it's so brilliant. He does a double. because he because um uh because he's. asked you know first of all are you a. you know what are you Joe what are you a. traitor and then he's there's a moment. says say that again and he says yeah. trade and you look at it's like looking. at the Mona Lisa you can't quite tell.

what is Richard thinking he's it's like. are you doing this deliberately are you. out of control he takes a drink when. he's doing it you know so I I think we. should honestly to your viewers and. listen and and view just keep watching. that because it gets better the more you. watch it I think it's a bit like I'm. going off peace de Marina but it's a bit. like we should also show the moment the. two the other best thing that's ever. happened is K star saying sausage. release the sausages not the hostages. again we all know that but you just need. to watch these things again and again to. really understand how good they are and. the Richard Grant is is astonishing but.

the show never quite found its feet. after that it became totally irrational. quick rundown before we we have to go. >> would the breakout stars of this series. and some of them are super obvious I. mean. >> Kenny I would love to see the offers his. agent is currently feeling. >> Yeah. I mean, I think that you can see. already the press are all saying, "So, you know, Maya's going to get a million. may get a million pounds off of the Y. She may, may not, may get more than. that, you know, whatever." So, so it's. everyone's favorite sport, but you're.

right. There means some proper winners. Maya has been a been a um a winner. Kenny for sure. Particularly, it's a bit. like sort of um trending, you know, on. social media, like if you start from a. relatively low base, as in Kenny's big. on YouTube, but to most BBC viewers, they don't know. So he's suddenly like, "Oh my god, this guy is amazing." So. he's been very James. I mean, who knows. where that's going to go. James will. probably be offered. >> I get the feeling he doesn't need to. work. Well, I think. >> so. I quite you know, he's he's you. know, he's a gentleman amateur. >> Yeah. I think also if he's if he is.

offered a Hollywood movie, he'll sort of. say it doesn't feel right and turn it. down in a very James Blunt way and get. it completely wrong. But but yeah, I I. mean I think by the way, one of the. lovely stories which I know you've is. Miranda, you know, although it seems. like years ago, you know, it was lovely. to see Miranda. Yeah, exactly. It's. Miranda being playful and reminding us, you know, of all of the wonderful person. that she is. So, I think that's what I I. personally I mean, I know Michael. Sheen's a controversial character, but. one of my favorite episodes was the it. was last night. God, it really was last.

night when for the first time ever. really in a show like this. He said, "This is what I'm going to do this. episode." And he did it the whole way. through. >> He said, "I'm going to cause hell. I'm. going to make sure." Because we were. laughing watching it. >> He called it Michael Sheen's House of. Pain. It was absolutely amazing. he. delivered and then and and then you and. normally as we saw today, you see people. saying, "Well, I'm really going to get. it right now. I'm really going." You. think, "I don't know what you're talking. about." And also, you're not. Um, but. >> hardly any of them ever got it right. But they were incredibly watchable. >> So wonderful.

>> Thank you so much for joining me. It was. so fun. What a series. Faithful win. Well done to them. >> Amazing. >> See you next Tuesday.