Boris Johnson’s Laughing All The Way To The Bank

[Music]. Hello and welcome to this episode of the. rest is entertainment questions and. answers edition. I'm Marina Hyde. >> and I am Richard Osman. We're still. apart from each other. >> I cannot infect you. >> Your co has not has not passed. It has. not cleared. >> It hasn't cleared. I must keep you safe. at all costs. But by the way, we've got. such someone wrote in something so nice. Um would you remember we talking about. AI commentary um on local sports? You. mentioned that. Oh yes. I was saying.

that the thing I would like if AI can do. anything, I would like it whenever. you're walking through like a local park. and there's a cricket match going on or. a football match going on, I'd love it. if somehow AI could commentate on it for. me. I would sit I would sit and watch. the whole game. That that was my that. was my AI dream. >> Well, this is like hearing that flying. cars are reality because listen to this. Chris Wright has written in and he says, um, I thought your listeners might like. to hear this story. I'm an expat in. Singapore and my 10-year-old son plays. cricket in a local competition here. The. competition is dominated by Indian kids.

and the games are live streamed on. YouTube which is great as it allows my. family to tune in live from Australia. when he's batting and bowling. Uh, a few. weeks ago I got a message from my. brother asking who is providing the. colorful commentary for the game and I. had to wander around the field looking. for the commentator who I couldn't find. After making inquiries, it turns out. that $50 of the match fee goes to a guy. living in the middle of nowhere in India. who commentates on four hours worth of. local 10-year-olds playing cricket based. on the live stream, a team sheet, and.

presumably some messages from the. scorers. It is a great service and well. worth the money. That's so cool. >> That's so cute, isn't it? Can you. imagine that? if you were a kid and you. had all of that. >> I've watched an unbelievable amount of. um small boys cricket games. Um and. actually Kieran used to do the scoring. on a sort of WhatsApp for all the. different parents. So like sometimes. they can't you know if people are. working and couldn't make it there then. there would be like this sort of group. and he would do some sort of commentary. on that. Um but this is of a different.

level and I'm absolutely gripped by it. I now want to watch this specific um. version of it. So, Chris, please get in. touch and like give me a link to the. link to that feed and I will watch it. But I absolutely love the idea of this. It It's literally, Richard, it's nearly. flying cars. Your dream is nearly a. reality. >> It's nearly a reality. I have I have a. tiny bit of any other business. A friend. of mine uh was listening when you were. talking about showing The Shining to. your 9-year-old child. And lots of. people have. >> told us about the inappropriate things. they've watched with their children. And.

a friend of mine, I used to remain. nameless. He said when our youngest. child was five, uh, he and his wife. often watched Grey's Anatomy. Yeah. He. said his wife watched it more than me, but that Grey's Anatomy is one of those. things we were watching. And sometimes. if I was out, she would watch an episode. without me. And I I was fine with that. He says, "So, I come back in one day, and his wife is sitting on the sofa with. the 5-year-old, and you're watching this. thing, and my friend looks at these two.

characters on screen and says, "I God, I. thought those two had split up." And his. wife said, "Well, it seems not." And. then his 5-year-old daughter said, "Hm, they're not really back together, Daddy. It's just breakup sex.". And and at that point, the 5-year-old. was no longer allowed to watch Grey's. Anatomy. that well how precocious in the. most charming way. >> In the most charming way. I have a. question for you Marina from Thomasson. who uh has a question about Zack Snder. the let's say controversialist director.

of things like Man of Steel, Justice. League, lot of the DC movies. Anyway, Thomas's question is this. Do you think. Zack Snder is aware his fans are as. toxic as they are and purposefully. doesn't care? Also, what effect will the. success of James Gun Superman have, if. any, on them? I ask because I find it. ludicrous that no matter what happens, they've decided on their version of. reality that continues to change as. facts change. >> Yeah. I mean, this is the sort of. emblematic. Well, it's not Well, I mean, there's so many toxic fandoms, but the. Zack Snder, who's a big DC director, when he made Justice League um for DC um.

for four years there was a fan campaign, released the Snyder cut. Um I mean, Zack. Snider is a part a particular sort of. guy. And by the way, um, during the. making of that film, something awful. happened and his daughter took it her. own life and it was a sort of and he. does credit the fan movement with sort. of bringing him back to film making. So, it's a more nuance story than it could. be, but um, I think in general, yes, I. think he's he's definitely aware of how.

toxic it became. Um, and I think he. probably got a lot of toxic stuff as. well. Um, but he's a particular type of. person. He's he has an unproduced. screenplay for The Fountain Head, which. I always feel is a character note in a. director. >> The Iron Rand book, Belove Beloved of uh. of Tech Bros Everywhere. >> Yeah. Beloved of Tech Bros Everywhere. and Terrible People. Um he's personally. he's very very obsessed with director's. cuts. He always does one. Sometimes he. does two director's cuts.

you're like. >> um so um you know the critics of whoever. ever any studio ever are always just. like well the director's cut is better. you know I would personally much rather. sit through nine and a half hours of. heaven's gate or whatever it is um Zack. Snder does actually claim I think never. to have seen the Warner Brothers. theatrical release cut of Justice League. >> same. >> like did it no I have actually seen it. but um I didn't see it in theaters um. but I.

It's really interesting as always with. these things. If they're not doing it to. you, then there is a sort of secret. delight that they're kind of doing it in. your service. >> And will you will you explain who the. fans are and the words they use? >> They're a very toxic online um group of. people who would just say, you know, I. want release his cut release and were. kind of obsessed with it. And like all. of these things that I think they're. sort of mirrored in those Star Wars. fandoms who who kind of went absolutely.

nuts about The Last Jedi and said um. yeah, I don't know that the character of. Rey was a sort of terrible perfect. little feminist that and they. completelyed Kelly Marie Tran off social. media completely. Um and it she was. subject to sort of terrible racist and. um kind of sexist bullying. I don't. know. I a lot of critics nowadays feel. that they're under constant siege from. fandoms and that.

that fandoms take critical reviews as. kind of personal attacks on them. And. what I think all of this shows is it's. become so interesting, you know, fandom. has become such an identity. fandom has. become and and to some extent, you know, and those old, you know, I have friends. who before way before it was cool, who. would say to me, this is literally the. most uncool thing you could do would go. to things like Star Trek conventions, would go to, you know, that was all unc. And then suddenly it's like, oh no,

Comic-Con's very cool. All of these. things have become cool and they've. become much more mainstream to some. extent. But rather than being for kind. of shy, nerdy, outsidery kids who were. quite nice, they have become places of. huge aggression. And that's one of the. big stories of um in fandom of the past. decade or two is the idea of fandom as a. kind of identity. It's part of identity. politics and like all the rest of. identity politics become very vicious. >> Well, it's like a football team. It's. like it's like having a it's like having.

a team. Suddenly um Star Trek fans can. be Milwall fans. >> I totally agree with you but I was. thinking about this just when you were. saying that I was thinking but it's sort. of like factions within the fans of one. football team and you can say okay yes. there are the people who think of. themselves as the kind of OG fans and. then there are the prawn sandwich. brigade and they you know there's some. kind of friction between them but it's. not really like this kind of inter. warfare which is really odd because it's. like you're. This is these are battles between people.

who essentially supposedly love the same. fiction. You know, they love Star Wars. or they love whatever. And it becomes. this real sort of it's and it's. definitely a story that is something of. the last decade or two. Um not even to. um you know who loves who whose voice. matters most, >> who's purest, >> who's purest. Um who's liked it longest, who who's liked it in the right way. um. rather than feeling like it's a lovely. kind of camaraderie, a brotherhood and a. sisterhood that you all get swept up in.

because you basically like the same. characters, it's become like everything. a battleground. And I would say that the. Snyder fandom was a particular example. of that and a kind of like and to anyone. else like any of these other Purity. Spirals or anything like that within. about a month or two of it running to. anyone else on the outside it looks just. completely deranged. that people have. gone this nuts about like a director's. cut of a movie and yet and it's become.

bigger and bigger and as you always say. those voices are just the loudest. Most. people who like Star Wars are not like. this and most people who like DC are not. like this but it just those the loudest. voices really have taken over and it has. become fandom in so many ways and in so. many different strains of fandom have. bizarrely become a form of identity. politics. Well, you have to be. obsessional. You have to want There are. certain types of people who will spend. eight hours a day on bulletin boards and.

almost everyone in the world will not do. that. Uh, and there is something about. your personality that if you are able to. spend eight hours a day on a bulletin. board, it it it says something about. you. I loved this expression, a purity. spiral. >> Yeah. Oh, there's some So, there's. there's some really interesting things. about how purity spirals form. And. there's actually an incredible sort of. deep dive article about one in a in a. which I'll try and put into the show. notes about a knitting circle and how no. I mean it's it's quite extraordinary but.

it's it becomes so completely awful and. it becomes caught up with all different. types of identity politics and it's. honestly just some people who got. together and formed an online community. because they like knitting and it. becomes beyond toxic. It's really such. an interesting long deep dive article. I. thoroughly recommend and I'll put that. in the show notes. Um, do you have any. have you ever been aware of like a like. some like a sort of provisional wing of. extremist Thursday Murder Club fans? >> Not especially. It was interesting with. the film that there were certain things. that changed from the book that that.

people got very exercised about. But as. as far as I can see in in quite a fun. way that it it seems to have been, oh, we we'd have loved this. We we'd have. loved that. I hope in the next movie. they do this, they do that. And so, yeah, that that feels like quite a a. healthy, enjoyable version of this. But. to but to speak to the actual question. to Thomasson's question, do you think. Zack Snder is comfortable with that? Do. you think actually it sort of it it. feeds in to uh his brand and to and to.

the movies that he makes? >> Well, as I said, it's always nice when. they're not doing it to you. Yeah. >> And I've never seen him come out and. say, "This is absolutely disgusting. Don't do this in my name." But as I also. said, if something so awful happened to. him in his personal life, it's probably. not the number one priority is dealing. with this particular aspect of something. that he to some mostly can't control. Um, but I think, you know, I think it's. very difficult for people. You just. anything you say to some extent just.

makes these things worse. But as always. when something quite fortunate is. happening in your favor you have to. really set step back and think yeah but. what's the right thing to do here. because otherwise as I say it can be. just you know oh well I I won't get in. the way of this thing that is singing my. praises to high heaven. I've got a. question for you Richard about bake off. outfits from Sarah OD day. I hope I've. said your surname right Sarah. She's. watching the new series of Bakeoff and. once again find myself screaming at the.

television. Why are the contestants. always made to wear the same outfit two. days in a row? We, the audience, know. it's filmed over the two days so they. could have two outfits. Aren't they. sweaty and covered in flour from the. first day? >> Thank you, Sarah, for that question. This this is I I could probably answer. this myself, but uh the lovely wardrobe. mistress on House of Games and lots of. other shows I do and works with lots of. uh on lots of big entertainment shows, Sharon Smith works on Bake Off and she. does all the costumes and wardrobe. mainly for the talent. So be and she is.

I love Sharon to bits but she she loves. having her voice out there. She does it. every time we used to do like on. pointless if ever we did like an East. Enders special we would we would do like. a little pre-titles tease on the square. and it would always be Sharon walking. out of a house going I'm having your. baby. Uh so I knew that Sharon would be. delighted to turn us a voice note and. tell us the exact answer to Sarah's. question. I will say this, I think in. the history of this podcast, every.

single time someone has given us a voice. notes or or or filmed something for us, they always start by saying, "Hello, Marina and Richard." I'll say this, you. can tell the sort of relationship we. have that that is not how Sharon starts. this. But she does have an answer to. your question, Sarah. >> Hello, Marina. In answer to the question. regarding bakers wearing the same outfit. for two days, no, we don't try and. pretend that it's all filmed over one. day. There's clear parts where we sort. of say, "Well done, bakers. Get some. rest tonight and we'll see you in the. morning." But they're kept in the same.

outfits pretty much because there's lots. of interviews that are filmed across the. two-day period. And those interviews. might be social media or they might be. interviews that go into the show. So, it. looks far smoother to have a 1-hour show. where everybody's in the same outfit. rather than jumping in and out of. different tops and distracting the. viewer. It's easy to keep them all in. the same thing. And they also do get. messy for continuity. If they make a. mess on one day, that mess is still. there the next day on their tops unless. it's something really drastic. Like our. wardrobe department pretty much look. after the judges and the presenters, they don't really get too involved in.

the bakers unless something drastic. happens. Like say for example, a mixer. exploded and they got completely covered. in cake mix. Then we would obviously go. into the rescue or their button broke. fell off or their zip broke or something. like that. But other than that, they're. just kind of left to it. They're just. asked to bring nice bright colors to. wear underneath their aprons and off. they go. I hope that helps. >> That does help. Thank you so much. Sharon. She'll be so happy to have her. uh her voice on the podcast. But it is. that thing Sarah you don't please don't. scream at the TV. But if you are making. a show like that that you are you are. making so many other things these days.

You're not just filming those two days. You are filming so many clips, social. media clips, all sorts of things. Also, there might be something if you know if. you do a an interview with someone on. the first day and they say something. which actually would work perfectly on. the second day and suddenly you can't. use it cuz they're wearing something. different. So, as a producer, it doesn't. make any difference to anyone that. people are wearing different clothes. But as a producer, it just makes your. life so much easier in an edit. It also. has that thing of especially early on in.

a series if you are getting to know a. whole series of different people and. you're not quite sure who's who, if they. are wearing something distinctive, you notice them and remember them more. easily. Whereas if they're suddenly. wearing something else the next day, there's a bit of our brain in the very. early parts when we're not sure who. people are where we get confused between. people as well. So it just makes. everybody's life so much easier. So if. you're watching it, again, this is. always the question. If it is something. that makes you scream at the television,

and it doesn't make any sense, there. will always be a reason. There'll be a. production reason why it's easier. Uh. and by all means, by the way, if any. anything else like that crops up, do ask. us. And uh we'll always be able to ask. somebody if if not always Sharon. >> But I love that. >> I have a question here from Mark and. James Oren and about the Traitors. Ireland. And they said, "My son and I. are loving the first series of the Irish. version of the Traitors. It's really. good. If you haven't seen it, we've. noticed that the round table looks the. same as the one used in the UK version. of the show. Is it the same table? If.

so, how is it transported? It is not the. same table. There we go. That was a nice. easy one. They made their own absolute. copy because again on a on a TV crew, you are surrounded by these brilliant. people who can make anything. And it's. absolutely cheaper to get one of those. brilliant people to make an exact copy. of something than to dismantle it in the. castle up in Scotland, send it over to. Ireland, dismantle it, and send it back. So yeah, it is not the same table, but. it's a a uh a testament to the art of. set designers that it looks exactly the.

same. That's a nice easy one. Right, everybody, shall we now proceed to a. break? This episode is brought to you by. Sky, where you can watch unmissable. shows, including the final farewell of. the award-winning Sky original comedy, Brassic. >> Seven series later, the gang from Hol. are bowing out, still chasing schemes. with full conviction. Brassic charges. through its biggest challenge yet. Like. a group that never learned the meaning. of Last Orders, >> it's chaos with a curtain call. Joe. Gilan, Michelle Keegan, Dominic West, big names you might expect, on three.

entirely different billboards, yet all. improbably colliding in a northern town. with more calamities than bus routes. >> This time, it's old enemies resurfacing, long-lost family reappearing, and. trouble following them at every turn. But rather than an ending, it feels like. a sendoff true to for messy riotus and. impossible mistake by anyone else. They're leaving the stage the way icons. should with a proper bang, a finale. stitched together with mischief, misfits, and just enough mayhem to feel. like Holly to the end. >> Watch the final farewell of Brassic now. on Sky with new episodes weekly requires.

relevant Sky TV subscription. Welcome. back everybody. Marina, a question for. you from Darren York. He asks, "Are. films able to achieve box office success. through a rage baiting so bad is good. campaign?" Is that is that is that. commercially viable? >> Oh, good question, Darren. In our. imagination, we think that this has. happened quite a lot. But actually, normally that happens. um after release. Things become cult. classics and so on and the audience.

finds them and embraces them and they. become um something that people kind of. go back to and they, you know, they. become sort of, as I say, cult classics. Funny enough, if you listen to our bonus. episode on Rocky Horror, which um isn't. bad, um the Rocky Horror Picture Show, but there was a significant flaw in it. if you've listened to that episode, which lent itself to audience. participation, which meant that it bec. became that sort of a cult classic. So, every now and then you get some that are.

absolutely deliberate um and that they. lean into it. Um fewer than you'd think. Lots of old bee movies um became, you. know, like sort of killer clowns from. outer space, Attack of the Killer. Tomatoes, but Shark NATO, which was made. by Sci-Fi. um that was marketed as in even though. that was, you know, relatively recent, it was marketed in the way of those old. bee movies and the tagline for that was. enough said. So that is an that I would.

say is an instance where they definitely. lent into doing it. Um, now one of the. really interesting ones that people. think was marketed as so bad. It was. like was Snakes on a Plane. When that. came out, that was New Line Cinema and. when that when when it was announced and. people were like, "Sorry, Samuel L. Jackson, Al Jackson's going to be in a. movie called Snakes on a Plane." You. might remember it like it sort of blew. up and it became a sort of, you know, a. meme and everything beforehand and fans. were suggesting scenes and dialogue. The.

whole title was obviously very me. memeable. Um, now so New Line took the. view that they were going to lean into. that whole thing and they did include. some of those suggested fan scenes and. they did include you know and yet it. lost money. So that thing that you said. at the end of the question which where. you're saying is it commercially do you. ever really want to say that something's. so bad? You can code the language and. kind of euphemize it. You might want to. say don't miss the madness or see it. while you still can. And there are films. that sort of do that or.

>> everybody's talking about it. >> Yeah. Everybody's talking about it. Exactly. But you're not honestly saying. that this thing isn't very good is just. like never do that. It's really bad. vibes. Um so you might call it the. ultimate midnight screening movie or you. you might do anything you can to get. audience participation. A lot of them. start out like I certain ones like I. mean Cocaine Bear that was you know. everyone thought you can't make a movie. called I mean Kerry Russell did that but. you can't make a movie called Cocaine.

Bear without everyone thinking this is. obviously supposed to be bad and I'm not. you know zombie strippers I'm supposed. to go I need to go and see this because. they're just making a joke about it. Um. yeah there were there was a movie that. actually did surprisingly well um like a. little tiny movie. It did surprisingly. well for a horror comedy. There was. something called the Velocipaster. which I love. Um and it's actually just. a funny what I quite like about it is. this guy this guy called Brendan Steer. directed when he was at film school. He. was like either NYU or the t you know he.

was at one of those New York film. schools and his phone. autocorrected Velociraptor to Veloca and. he was like well I mean. >> what's that film? What would that film? >> Sorry. Okay fine I'll make that. Um, you. know, a priest travels to China. He gets. bitten by a radioactive artifact. I've. seen bits of this, but I haven't seen. the whole thing. >> Oh, pasta. Like pasta like a. >> Yeah, like like a like a priest like. carbs. >> And he Yeah. No, not like not No, not. that one. Harder to ponify anyway. And he turns.

into a dinosaur when he gets angry. Um, so certain things like that, but I mean. that's a tiny little sort of, you know, independent sort of student thing. really. Um, most of them start out. serious. Even these things that are like. unbelievably bad like Tommy Wiso's The. Room that starts out serious um they. become more popular because they become. part of memes. I personally don't think. as I said shark nato is the really the. only one I can think of them saying you. know enough said but even that isn't.

saying what you're kind of saying is. like there's a tornado of sharks right. come on why would you not want to see. this? So you can code it, but you cannot. say I don't I don't think it's just what. you are nonetheless getting people to. leave the house and pay money to see. something. >> You're either deliberately setting out. at the beginning to do something that. catches a a a sort of kit aesthetic. But. once if you're doing something that. isn't trying to do that, it's very hard. to turn that into money. It's difficult. to turn ironic watching into money.

>> I couldn't agree more. Try and make me a. cult classic. someone tell you say go on. go come up with a cult classic and you. can have all the ingredients it's like. someone saying to you oh my god I've. read loads of self-help books I could do. one of them you couldn't okay because. your heart's not in it and you think oh. I could do something so cynical it's. really it's very very difficult in any. kind of artistic project at all or even. a literary project or even a self-help. book to think I'm that cynical I can see. all the elements of how they do this and.

I can produce something like that. something gets in the way And you won't. make something brilliant by accident. But you also won't make a cult classic. You'll just make you nothing will it. Your heart sort of has to be in it. Which is why the things that do become. cult classics, they were really. definitely trying very hard. >> And there's also that thing of you say, "Oh, but me and all of my friends, we. watch it. We we just watch it and laugh. at it and and but so everyone I know, so. this must be making money." That.

mainstream culture does not do that. There is a part of our culture and we're. absolutely part of it that will do that. and will enjoy that. But in terms of. actually making big box office, you have. to find the heart of culture. And the. heart of culture does not ironically. watch things. >> No, you can't. You have to mean it. I. mean, obviously within something that. within a fiction, you have to mean it. >> Yeah. >> Oh god. Talking of cynicism, I'm so. devastated to have to ask this question, Richard. But I've got to ask you a.

question because Simon's written in to. say, "With the first anniversary of the. release of Unleashed by Boris Johnson. approaching, could you guys give us an. update of how sales have gone and how. that works commercially?". >> Yes, I will. So, yeah, we we talked we. worked out that his advance had been 2. million pound. So, he was given 2. million pounds to write this book. So, and we gave a few updates on how it was. selling, but we now now it has settled. So we know exactly what it's, you know, it's not still selling. So I've looked.

into all the numbers this week and. spoken to various people at various. publishers about exactly what we think. about who's made what's money. >> I wish you hadn't had to do this, but. carry on. >> Well, it's not all good news. It didn't. do terribly. Did not do certainly most. political memoirs absolutely disappear. and it hasn't done that. But it's a. question of whether they paid Boris. Johnson too much. You'll be shocked to. learn that they did. So Boris Johnson, we know how much he's made, which is 2. million pounds. That's his advance. And.

then it's a question of on top of that, you hope to make royalties. So I can. tell you now for a fact, he has not made. royalties. So he he has not earned out. that 2 million pound advance. So since. it came out, it sold in hardback 150,000. copies, which is not terrible. It's not. great. >> You saw that in a week. Sorry. >> Yeah. It's not amazing and it's. certainly not 2 million pound advance. level. I mean, it's not even close to. that. It's it's absurdly far away from. a2 million pound advance level. So, he.

sold 150,000 copies. Now, one of the key. things in this world is is your average. sale price. So, when you look at the. Neielson ratings, they'll show you how. many you sold, plus they will show you. your average sale price. Almost all. books are discounted. Amazon will. discount them quite heavily. So, you'll. see the average sale price. Now, the. average sale price for Boris's book, I. think the recommended retail price is. 30. The average sale price is 17. And. sometimes, again, if you see that. written about in the press, they go, "Oh, it's half price." And it's not.

It's put at £30 so that you know, you. can discount it and still be making. money. And £17 is actually a pretty good. per unit sale price. You look at some of. the Freedom of Fathom books that are. huge at the moment, it'll have an. average sale price of £430 or or. something like that. But for even for a. hardback 17 is is not bad. So you. multiply 17 by 150 you get somewhere. around 2.5 million. So the book in total. has grossed 2.5 million in hardback. You.

want to add in your audio and things. like that as well. Let's say 3.5 million. it's made. The publisher who in this case is Harper. Collins. If a book makes 3.5 million, the rough. rule of thumb is once you've taken out. retailers and what have you, the. publisher will see back about half of. that. So, they'll see back about 1.75. million. Now, you got to take all your.

costs out of that as well. It's not like. a movie, but there are substantial. costs. So, maybe that takes them down to. 1.3, 1.4 million, something like that. So, they have paid Boris Johnson 2. million. I'm gonna say, and this is. again not just my numbers, but various. people I talked to, maybe they've made. back 1.3 1.4 million. So they're losing. 600,000. They still have the paperback to come. They have overseas sales. Neither of those are going to be.

enormous. >> Is he big in Japan. >> for this, but not so much. Not so much. He's he's not like the Barasa. He's not. like the Veloca pastor. uh haron say. they've made money on this but I've. speaking to every single person I can. from every single side of the business. no one could work out how they have made. money as we talked they weren't. serialization rights cuz Boris Johnson's. got a you know his column with with the. Daily Mail so over the over the you know. the lifetime of this book it may well be.

that Harper Collins will be able to say. we will probably. >> we'll probably clear that to 2 million. but this this is not a book that was. kind of they were hoping to sell half a. million for example. >> You well you say it's not like a million. but it did have a it he did do a. Christmas advertising campaign for this. book which I I only remember because he. was writing his naughty list in this. advert and on one of the pages right at. the top he wrote Richard Osman.

without any question purely because of. this. He always does that. He lets you. know that he's like why are you showing. weakness Johnson? He should have just. pretended he'd never heard us talking. about you. But regrettably, he must have. heard you analyzing his book sales and. and and he allowed it himself to reveal. himself as being very upset by it. Um. >> Oh, listen. He's I mean, he was right. As I say, he's made he's made that 2. million, which he doesn't have to pay. back doesn't have to pay back a penny of. that, but certainly if he'd sold half a. million, he would have made another what.

would he have made on top of that? he would have made at least another. million and a half plus every single. sale of every single paperback for the. rest of history he'd been making money. on. At the moment, anytime anyone buys. his book, he is not making any more. money. So, he's made a lot already, but. he is not making another penny. Harper. Collins say they've made money. I don't. possibly see where they are. I heard I I. I've I've I've heard this theory a. number of times, but I cannot back it. up, but I say it anyway cuz I've heard. it from a lot of people, which is.

political memoirs tend to get massively. overpaid for. Uh and I've always. slightly wondered why because you think, oh, at the end of, you know, when. someone's memoir is out, they they can. no longer sort of do you any favors. And. Harper Collins almost always do the big. political memoirs certainly for people. from the right. And the thing I've heard. a number of times now is that a. publishing company might make a deal. with a sitting politician while they're. still in power for their memoirs after.

they're out of power. And a politician. knows that of the things they can cash. in on when they leave power. One of the. big ones is a memoir. That's that's one. of the big sort of chunks of change that. you can get. You know, Boris knows. there's two million. And if you are. pre-aggreeing a deal with somebody while. they're still in power, then actually. there is some sort of payback for you, you know, you do you do actually get. advantage of that person owing you a. favor cuz they're still in power. I'm. not saying that's what happened here, by. the way. I'm not saying that Harvard.

Connors has ever done it. I'm not giving. any specifics, but certainly if you were. to say, "Oh, by the way, at the point. where you do leave power, shall we. pre-agree that you'll get a million. pounds for your memoirs or whatever it. is?" And that sort of makes some sense. cuz then you don't really have to make. money out of it cuz you you you've. already got your money's worth in a. different way. But this book has not. sold terribly. £150,000 would be. £150,000 harbacks is a good sale if you. had a half million pound advance, you.

know, then everyone's laughing. Boris. Johnson's making um royalties, Harper. Collins are making money, but if you pay. somebody £2 million and you sell. £150,000 hardbacks, then everybody is. losing out apart from the person who was. given 2 million pound in the first. place. >> I think that about wraps us up for. today. >> Yeah. Isn't it? Just pleasure as always. a great pleasure. We will return. tomorrow with a really interesting bonus. episode, I think, because it's about. script doctoring, which is a sort of.

deliberately unsung part of the movie. business, but there's lots of. interesting stuff about that. >> People who are sort of flown in for a. week just to punch things up and get. paid huge amount of money for a very. small amount of time and and usually. have their names uh kept off the final. uh script as well. >> Yeah, it's fascinating and it always has. been for like how many decades of of. Hollywood history. So um that's for our. members. If you want to join and have. adree listening and so on, it's the rest. is entertainment.com. Otherwise, we will see you next Tuesday. >> See you next Tuesday.

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