What Is YouTube Doing to Us? We Asked Its CEO. | The Interview

I was looking at all these guides that. there are to sort of get your things to. do well on YouTube. Like, what are the. hooks? How are you can get the algorithm. to like you and amplify you? >> Are you adopting any of them? >> Uh, not yet. I'm Lulu Garcia-Navarro and today I'm in. Silicon Valley to speak with YouTube CEO. Neal Mohan. YouTube is a juggernaut. >> So, a couple weeks ago, I clicked on.

this video. >> This is a bird feeder. >> The platform is winning the streaming. war with Netflix. It's made creators. like Mr. Beast and Ms. Rachel into huge. stars and it's owning the video podcast. space. >> Hey there, welcome to Conan O'Brien. Needs a Friend. >> Add to that it's growing distribution. business with YouTube TV and the deals. with both the NFL and the Oscars. And. it's clear YouTube, which is owned by. parent company Google, has few, if any, peers. Which is why I wanted to sit down.

with Neal Mohan. Mohan has been in charge of YouTube. since 2023. and has overseen its rapid growth, but. that hasn't come without controversy. Just this week, a jury in California. found the company negligent, alongside. Meta, for harming a teenager's mental. health through their addictive features. >> And the jury said that YouTube, Google, failed to operate YouTube in a. reasonable fashion. >> That verdict, which YouTube told us they. plan to appeal, came down after Mohan.

and I talked, but we still had a lengthy. discussion about YouTube's impact on. children and us all. Here's my. conversation with YouTube CEO Neal. Mohan. I am very excited to be here today at. YouTube. I wanted to start with a. statistic. Um, Mr. Beast, of course, the. biggest content creator on YouTube, said. that. humanity now spends 2% of its waking. hours on YouTube. I mean, is the goal to make it 3%?

>> So, I know I know Jimmy very well. We have. He and I have not done that math. together, so I don't think I can. validate his math or not. I think our. goal, I mean, look, we're we measure. ourselves by this concept of whether. viewers, all of us, the 2 billion people. that come to YouTube every single day, are satisfied by their experience on. YouTube. And so, that is how we orient. decisions around the product or the. business. And.

we have grown, you know, we're the, you. know, the number one. streamer, I think, for 3 years running. now in the US on television screens. You. know, we're. an incredibly large podcast platform. You know, this conversation. I will watch on YouTube. And so, so. yeah, that has been that's definitely. been part of the journey. I'm incredibly. proud of it in terms of making some. long-term bets that have really paid off. for YouTube, but also for our viewers. and our creators. >> I mean, not to be too meta about this,

but in fact, um, obviously, this is going to go on. YouTube. We've got cameras and lights. here. And what used to be an audio podcast is. now a video podcast. And part of that. reason. is because this is the way to gain new. audiences, to reach people. because everyone seems to be on the. platform now. And. what is it that you think. makes shows grow. and gains an audience? I mean, how do I.

make this a hit? >> Mhm. >> Other than like maybe taking a chair and. bashing you over the head. We might get there in a in a, you know, in a in a bit. >> Um, when I get asked this question, I I. think it's, in my view, very, very. simple. And it has to do. really with how YouTube works, which is. the people that are on the other side of. the camera, other side of the screen. rather, that are that are watching you. on a television screen or or or on their.

mobile phones when they're um watching. this conversation or even on their. desktops or what have you. The one thing they can suss out really, really quickly is if it's like truly. authentic. And I really do think that if. you go and actually spend a minute. thinking about. any creator's channel, that is really. what comes uh through for the really. successful creators. >> I want to talk about your competition. because you mentioned podcasts. You. recently though have had several major.

podcasters leave YouTube for Netflix. Um. shows like The Breakfast The Breakfast. Club, My Favorite Murderer. Are you. worried that your biggest stars are are. going to be signed away to places like. Netflix? And we're also, by the way, of. course, seeing Meta just announced this. week that they were interested in luring. some of your creators away. Um Apple is. now talking about, obviously, getting. into the video podcast business more. aggressively. I mean, they're taking, you know, they're taking the things that.

you built and they're saying, "Come over. here. The water's warm.". >> Yeah. Um you know what I I'd I'd say a. couple things about that. So, first, um. it is. flattering that they see us as sort of. the center of culture, especially in. terms of what these amazing creators. have been able to do on YouTube. But the real sort of conversation, when. I speak to our creators and I speak to. our creators several times a week, of. all sizes, really, up-and-coming. creators, some of the very large ones. that you've mentioned, what they always. tell me is that no matter what they look.

to do, they understand that YouTube is their. home. There would be no Beast Games if. there wasn't Mr. Beast on YouTube. And. Jimmy knows that and he talks about that. and that is um that's the way that I. think about it. They tell me over and. over that their most authentic real. audience is on YouTube. They know that. is the font of a lot of their success. off of YouTube, but if as a result of. their success on YouTube, they are also. experiencing success in other places, whether it's working with a studio on a.

project or whether it's writing a book. or coming up in the case of Mr. Beast. with his chocolate bar or what have you, then I think that's awesome. Um I have. not come across YouTubers that have. completely yanked their content off. YouTube. I I can't imagine why they. would why they would do that. And. frankly, they're in a position where. they can say no to that, right? They. don't have to because. the nice thing about what they've built. on YouTube is that there's other places. that are so desperate to actually work.

with them that they'll acquiesce to what. our YouTubers are ultimately know is the. right decision for them in the long. term, which is to never leave their. home. >> Yeah, I mean, it just seems like it's an. interesting consequence of the YouTube. model because in many ways you're an. incubator. You know, you take like you. said anyone. who's got a camera and a dream and they. have a shot at. getting an audience and. connecting with them. But once they get. to a certain level of success, it seems like all these other groups are. sort of circling to to take them away.

>> And they never leave because they know. that their home is on YouTube. >> I want to move to another part of your. business that um you are also really. dominating. YouTube TV. is now bigger than many of the cable. operators. And since 2025, the main way that. YouTube is now uh consumed in the US is. on connected television. At the beginning of 2026, you wrote, "YouTube is the new TV because creators.

are the new primetime." I think one of. the things that has Hollywood nervous is. that it's a question of quality, too. You know, prestige TV, something that's. hard and costly to make. YouTube is mostly not that. I was looking at all these guides. that there are to sort of get your. things to do well on YouTube. Like, what. are the what are the hooks? How are you. can get the algorithm to like you and.

amplify you? >> Are you adopting any of them? >> Uh. not yet. Um. but you know, it's all about. tapping into a lizard brain and not. about maybe elevating things that have a. narrative arc, that have character. development, that have complex moral. decision-making. And I'm just wondering, are we losing. something. with the dominance of. the kind of creator economy that YouTube.

specializes in? >> Mhm. You know, I think um. this is a conversation that. I do think the industry likes to have, um and it's often times the industry. just sort of talking to itself, to be. honest. And. I think it's presumptuous for. us to. judge or tell people what is high. quality or low quality or prestige or. not. Um. at the end of the day, 2 billion people.

come to YouTube. Um. families, parents, um young people, college kids, older adults. Uh and they find what they love. And um. there's every type of creator and every. type of genre because it is a reflection. of humanity. We have um incredible. creators that are producing amazing. scripted content in Hollywood, like Alan. Chicken Chow or Kanika Dewan, who have. built sound stages to produce content.

that engages people in incredibly I. would put that up against any sort of. quote-unquote sort of prestige content. out there. I would put Miss Rachel or. Mark Rober or Cleo Abram against any. sort of quote-unquote traditional sort. of produced content. And the great thing. about it is that when the next Miss. Rachel or the next next Mark Rober comes. along who's even more is creative in a. different way, they get a shot at it as. well. As opposed to someone in sort of. traditional sort of media saying, "Actually no, I don't think your idea is.

a good one or it's low quality, quote-unquote." Um who are we to say. that? >> So content creators are king, but. you are moving into um the traditional. purview of the networks. Uh you secure. exclusive broadcasting rights for events. like the Oscars starting in 2029 and. currently some NFL games. I've seen of. course predictions that this is going to. be the death knell for cable and. broadcast television. because these are such big tentpole. events. I mean what is the strategy here? Is it.

to sort of pick out out the biggest. events from traditional broadcast. television? I mean, is the Super Bowl. next and bring it to YouTube? >> Well, I mean, I guess the first thing. that I would say is um if you think. about it from a consumer standpoint, a. viewer standpoint, especially a younger. viewer, um their expectation is that when they. turn on the TV. that all of what they want to watch and. engage with is in the same experience. And so, that is everything from a.

15-second short. By the way, shorts are, you know, lots of people watch them on. televisions. to a 15-minute sort of classic YouTube. sort of VOD or long-form video. to, you know, 3-hour podcast, 1-hour. podcast through a 3-hour NFL game, or a. 15-hour live stream cuz we have, you. know, lots of streamers on our platform. And the expectation is that all of that. is a seamless experience that they can. get through their recommendations on. YouTube. And so, that's the consumer. lens through which we have looked at it.

And we made that bet for for three three. reasons. One is could we expand. the market by making it easy for fans to. actually find football games, whether it. was a live game, but our our biggest. relationship is actually Sunday Ticket, which is a subscription service. And the. second was like could we bring. technological innovation to it. So, you. know, multiview, like being able to. watch which people take for granted now. was one of like the core innovations we. brought to the NFL experience. Creator. integrations, right? Like we did this uh. new concept that was um we call it.

creator watch withs, which is basically. the live stream, I mean the the live. game, like our Brazil game, which was. the um one of the season openers last. year, but watch alongside your favorite. creator. And so those are the types of. things that we talk about with the NFL. So, when when the commissioner and I. have a meeting with our teams, that's. that's really what our focus is. I have. an 18-year-old son, he's a sports nut. Uh he watches lots of live sports, but. his sports highlights are his YouTube. feed. And the NFL understood that, and.

so that led to the partnership that we. have. And so that's how And the Oscars. actually was a similar type of. conversation with the Academy. >> Since you mentioned the Oscars, did you. see Conan O'Brien's skit this year um. where he sort of poked fun at YouTube? >> I did, yeah. Yeah. And two two YouTube. jokes, actually. >> What you think? >> I think Conan is very funny. And he's. actually a YouTuber. He's been on. YouTube for a very long time. His Team. Coco channel is does really well on. YouTube. >> Mhm. Do you think the broadcast networks.

that have been traditionally been the. home of of these franchises become like. the dodo? Because I mean they're the. those are the biggest drivers also for. them. And you taking that away, I mean, kind of like what's left? >> Well, you know, what's interesting about. tho- those partners is they're. obviously, as I said, some of our. largest, most strategic partners because. of YouTube TV, but they are also large. partners in the classic sense of being. creators on YouTube, whether they are.

news some of the, you know, largest. news partners on YouTube are. are like Fox News, right? They're very. large on our platform. Just like The New York Times has a very. large presence on on YouTube and the. Wall Street Journal or. a lot of the entertainment networks. Disney is one of our, you know, strategic partners. They have a big. investment and presence on YouTube. And. so. we work closely with them every single. day. They understand sort of what's.

happening in the the ecosystem and I. think. they also understand that like a lot of. the fandom around their IP, their. franchises, the the the amount of. creativity that comes out of their. studios is happening on YouTube. So they. really tap into that and they invest in. it. >> So we've been talking obviously about. the power of video today and I want to. get your thoughts on on this because. I understand that you are a big reader. And one of the other big concerns that I. hear about this world that we're.

entering and living in now and sort of. embarking on with with AI is that you. know, there are studies showing that all. our video consumption has ushered in. this age of post-literacy. Um that Gen Z now overwhelmingly prefers. to consume visual content on YouTube um. as opposed to traditional media. And that has tracked with a sort of more. pronounced drop in reading levels, attention spans. What do you think about.

YouTube's role in changing the way that. we. think and our brains? >> Yeah, I mean, I can answer that and. you're. presumably I you're talking about young. people and. people you know. >> My brain too though, but yeah. >> But you know, what certainly where the. responsibility bar for all of us is is. very high, which is which is young. people and and children. You know, I have three kids of my own, so as a parent, as a dad, I think about.

their development and, you know, both. challenges and opportunities every. single day. Like, I can say. unequivocally, you know, I encourage my kids to go run. around and touch grass and, you know, for our youngest, be on the swing set or. play basketball with my son and all of. those types of things. Um I. encourage that. I encourage them to read. as much as they possibly can. You know, I love to read, but um. I encourage our we my wife and I. encourage our kids to do that as well.

And. um I on YouTube, what I find is there's. um. content as we've described that young. people find entertaining and they learn. new things on a regular basis. Um I. um. >> do you think it matters that they're. learning things I I I this isn't a. gotcha. This is actually I'm just. genuinely curious. Do you think it matters that they're. learning things through video and and. that that is just sort of changing the. way that they absorb information or.

doesn't? >> I think that um video, just like. reading, is an important way for people. to learn. When you And when you say the. term video, it's like learning visually. Um and I see that, you know, just like. back in the day, we learned in the class. classroom visually from our teachers, I. do see a lot of that learning happening. on YouTube. And actually, teachers tell. me that all the time, too. Like, it's. >> And I want to say my daughter's dyslexic. and YouTube is a huge part of her life. She learns visually and it's been a. godsend for her for all sorts of.

different reasons. So, um this isn't to. say that this is necessarily a bad. thing, but it is a thing. >> Yeah. I think that it is a. it is I think about it more in the in. the analogy of like a library. And it's. a visual library, but it's a library. that has lots and lots and lots of books. in it. And um the way that information. or knowledge is communicated or new ways. of thinking is communicated is visual, audio visual, and I do think that is an. effective way for people to learn. Do I.

think it's the only way? Of course not. >> I want to ask you about uh. a lawsuit that's happening um where. you're currently, along with Meta, being. sued by a young woman who says YouTube. um is addictive and harmful. um when she was a minor. And uh this is. considered a landmark case here in. California. Do you feel responsibility to remedy the. harm for that if your site is addictive. to people? >> Um and I you know, I shouldn't comment. on that specific trial, of course, um as.

you can as you can understand. What I. will say about again, and I think we I. was alluding to some of these things in. in my earlier answers, the way I think about it is as you point. out, as we were just talking about, you. know, YouTube is this platform where. people go for many different reasons to, you know, blow off steam, listen to. their favorite artists, you know, whatever, Billie Eilish or Taylor Swift. or what have you, to connect with. community. That's a lot of what happens.

on YouTube. Uh and then learn learn. things. And so I think the the mental. model for me is we should be thinking. about. protecting young people in the digital. world as opposed to protecting them from. the digital world. And like the best. analogy I can think about there is, you. know, teaching my daughter to ride a bike. Like it starts with training wheels and. you take off the training wheels and. then eventually like she can kind of go. and ride her bike and sort of be. >> got kids. You know that it's impossible.

It's impossible to put guardrails um on. on. kids with devices. It's so hard. >> Yeah, and that's so that's what I was. trying trying to say which is. I feel like because of that sort of. principle of making sure that we're. protecting young people in the digital. world as opposed to shutting them off. from it because I also think it's wrong, frankly, to eliminate that knowledge, that that library of content because.

there isn't there's amazing um wonderful. content that parents tell me about every. single day. Just like the experience. that you just shared about your. daughter. I have that certainly in my. household. So, well then how do you. approach it? Well, the way I think you. approach it is to make it so that um. what you can do around parental controls. as you described um or other types of. things are actually truly practical and. easy to use. and that can actually be enforceable. And that's what we can do and that's.

what my wife and I try to do in our. household. Like you said, we're not. perfect by any stretch. Um but if there. are things that we can do at YouTube to. make that job easier for parents, um. I think that is. that's the right approach. >> You know, as a parent, which again, I. know you are, it can often. times feel like you're fighting against. Silicon Valley. Like the entire. it's you.

trying to put some guardrails and some. order in the household and you are. fighting against, you know, these giant. corporations. of which you are one. um and it feels impossible. It feels for. many parents like they just lose the. battle. >> Yeah, I mean look, I'm as parent of. three myself, uh. I. um. think about this. uh. how young people are growing up today. I. think that there are amazing things that.

happened that access to information, to. knowledge that happened because of. platforms like YouTube. I also. understand the challenges that you're. describing. And so, it's not to. trivialize them in any sense because I. experience them, and it is. um something that I personally care. deeply about. It's personal to me. Our approach to it is how can we bring. all of that sort of those awesome. experiences that you just described in. the context of your daughter that I. experienced with my own kids, but do it.

in a way where parents are in control. That's what we work towards. And so, you. know, we are a platform where we will. um build things like timers in the app. We announced actually a couple months. ago now um the ability for parents to. actually have um a timer on short-form. video feeds, right? Um. to set it to zero. That's industry-leading. That has not.

been uh done before, but that's the way. that we make decisions here in terms of. putting that responsibility first and. foremost and kind of then letting the. chips fall where they may. >> I I do want to talk about content. moderation because as YouTube has become. bigger and bigger and takes up more of. the culture and of people's engagement. and the way they get information, the. responsibility becomes, I think, greater. Do you feel that responsibility. in terms of how things have have shifted.

um for YouTube and just having a lot. more time spent on the on the site? >> Every single day. It is um. my top priority in many ways, and um. I off- I often say that, you know, YouTube is a reflection of what's. happening in the world, but what happens. on YouTube also impacts the world. And. that. from my standpoint is the motivation. behind the responsibility. There's 2. billion people that come to YouTube.

every single day. We do have a. responsibility. We are a platform that. prides itself on being an open platform. without a gatekeeper. We stand for. freedom of speech, freedom of. expression. Um but we've had community. guidelines on our platform since the day. YouTube started. And living up to that. responsibility is. um a big part of what happens around. here literally every single day. >> Yeah, I mean starting in 2020, you. deplatformed. um a number of YouTube accounts for. spreading lies.

You've re-platformed many of them, uh. most notably Donald Trump. Um after. January 6th, 2021, you had suspended. Donald Trump's account, uh and we should. note that YouTube wasn't alone in that. Many other platforms did the same. Trump. then sued accusing you of censorship, um. and you reinstated his account in 2023. And then Google, your parent company, agreed to pay nearly $25 million to. settle the case last year. uh without admitting liability. Were you.

wrong to ban him in the first place? >> Um I think um I'm trying to think back. to the the policies that were I think in. place back then. Those many of those I. think are not in place today. You know, we have because of a lot of. what we talked about here and the scale. of YouTube and what it represents in. culture and and society, we have a long. track record of working with. administrations really on both sides of. the aisle, and we make our decisions.

based on what we believe at the moment. to be right for the creator ecosystem. that we spent the bulk of the time. talking about here. And we strive to. write our community guidelines in a way. uh the best as we possibly can. We. strive to be truly as much of an open. platform as we can. >> the wrong decision, do you think, at the. time to ban. >> Um. >> you know, a former president? >> I think that, you know, it's hard to. uh look at all of these decisions out of.

context. You know, you think about You. know, you said um even back to 2020, some of the examples that you were. describing there. We were. embarking on this pandemic that was. going to shut down the world. Like, science was being created every single. day. Did we reverse those policies? Yeah, we. changed a lot of those policies because. I think that while the principles of, you know, freedom of expression, free. speech. um remain sort of North Star, a kind of. immovable principles at least at.

YouTube, we also want to be flexible in. terms of the context around policies. And what we You know, back to your. question around. uh the president's channel and what. around January 6th, that was. I can't remember the very specific. policy that was in place then, but that. was. that was during that particular time. period. Fast forward, a lot of those policies, even before. independent of, you know, the lawsuit or. what have you, were deprecated policies.

And so So, that's how we try to be. flexible about the policies, but also be. true to our principles about being an. open open platform. And so, when I was. took over as CEO, one of the first. decisions was to. to bring that channel back. >> That was your decision. >> Um that was ultimately my decision, yes. >> Uh the money, we should say, is being. used to remodel the White House and pay. for Trump's ballroom. Do you worry about the optics of that? >> You know, again, I like I was saying, we.

we we are we're very focused on our. creators. Like, what is the best for the. ecosystem? We do work with all. administrations. I think that what I. would say is um. we we. >> There's a lot of discussion, as you. know, um about how. powerful entities in corporate America. are dealing with this administration now. and there will be questions when there. are others. and that relationship. and I think it's a fair question.

I don't you know I think I'm sure that. you're more focused on your creators but. this is I think it's a fair question. >> Question being. how do we. >> How do you think about the optics of of. the money that you ended up paying to. Donald Trump to settle the case being. used on. you know his new ballroom? >> I don't I don't know the specifics of of. of the ballroom or or how it's being. built. It is going towards a.

preservation trust so I do think it's. something that is going to be for the. country but I think the way honestly I. think about it is sort of the way you. framed it in the question which is. I think it's a way for us to. settle on old policies. Most of them are. actually not even in place today and. focus on the future of our creators and. the ecosystem. We make those policy. decisions. independent of administrations based on. what we think is best for YouTube and.

that is so hopefully something that we. will continue to do. >> Something I'm you know I'm hearing from. you and I and I think it's very true is. that the culture has changed so much in. terms of what is deemed misinformation. not deemed misinformation and and you. have changed your policies along with. that and there's. you know. a lot of reporting around. what those changes are at YouTube and. I'm just sort of wondering how now. something gets taken down what exactly. are the community guidelines that get.

breached is it. the. sort of amount of time someone's saying. something or the impact of what they're. saying? >> You know the real the way I think that. it really breaks down into uh, a few. things that allows us to do what we do. And the first is, as I said, you. clarity around the principles. And the. core principle here for, um, which is. again goes back to the very early days. of YouTube and has been consistent, which is we are an open platform and we.

stand for free speech. And that is a. stance that we've taken and we have. gotten criticized on both sides of the. aisle constantly. And I think that that. is, and I say this to my teams here, uh, that's. that is a result of the privileged. position we're in. We are relevant to. people's lives and and there's. >> a difference between unfettered free. speech. We've we've seen free speech up. to absolutists like Elon Musk and what X. has become and that's a version of free.

speech. Um, so I'm trying to understand. what your definition is. >> I guess what I'm saying is our. principles. uh, uh, the way to answer your original question. is it starts with the principles. We try. to hold true to this tenant of free. speech. That is core to how we do it. And so then the question is, well, how. do you then write a set of community. guidelines that reflect it to the best. of our ability? And I always say that. that's that's the hard work, that's the. job, and the best we can do there is to.

write them and to be transparent about. them. And then the third part of it is. to do our best to live up to what we. actually published. And then. and then we are going to get criticized. on either sides of it because people are. not going to be not everyone is going to. be happy about where that line is drawn. And. >> But I guess I'm trying to understand. where the line is drawn. Because I mean, let's take. you know, an a couple of examples. If. you think about Candace Owens, she has 5.

million followers on your platform and. growing. Um, and right now she has a multi-part. series on conspiracy theories around. Erica Kirk, the widow of Charlie Kirk. She's also talked frequently about. Brigitte Macron, the first lady of. France, being a man. There has been. anti-Semitic content in the past. So, explain to me how she's not violating. YouTube's community guidelines. >> Um we I again, I'd have to look at a. very specific video there. So, it's hard. to answer that question in sort of a. generalized sense. Uh and the decisions we make are video.

by video, and we're able to do that at. scale because of our investment in our. systems and the people that we have. And. so, I don't think I can answer that. question um in a in a general sense. What I will say is that we do have. guidelines around hate speech or. harassment. We have child We have. guidelines around making sure that kids. are protected on the platform, around. consumer fraud and those types of. things. And each one of those. guidelines, we try our best to actually. publish them.

uh on our website. So, I couldn't get. into the details of every single one of. those. uh verticals and how it applies to an. individual video. But, I can speak in. terms of the broad principles that on in. general, we try to allow for as uh the. broadest spectrum of speech as possible. Sometimes, it might be speech that. people disagree with. Um you know, you're describing one. example. There's probably millions and. millions of videos on YouTube that I. disagree with, that you might disagree.

with, but don't have. uh grounds for us to take down on the. platform. >> know if it's disagreement. It's it's. it's just a question of. the fundamental questions, right? Or. what are facts? What are What is truth? Um what is fair? Uh and. and what is the responsibility of a. platform like YouTube. uh to elevate those things uh and not. things that are unfair, untrue, and.

possibly damaging. >> Yeah. You know, we are we are an open. platform, Lulu. Each one of the channels. on our platform, the New York Times. channel, the interview channel, you have. the editorial standards that you live by. on those channels, and they are. certainly different across the various. not just genres, but channels within. genres. And our job is to have a set of. rules and guidelines. Those are our. community guidelines. Every channel will.

draw a different line in terms of what. they think is appropriate. >> And And the reason I'm focusing on this. and and and forgive me, I I just it's. because I. >> these are important questions. >> They are. Thank you. And and and also. it's just I think they're important for. you know, our understanding of the. world. I just saw one of your news. creators, Tara Palmieri, who I know a. little bit, who. has now become a sort of independent. creator on YouTube. And I saw, you know, you have cited her as, you know, someone.

trying to respond, you know, promote. responsible journalism on the platform. And she just had a post on YouTube sort. of lamenting the fact that she feels. like she's. fighting against an algorithm that. deprioritizes. that kind of reporting. That she's. being, you know, she is having to fight. for the attention in in a world where. there's all sorts of other people. pushing things that might be more jazzy,

more interesting, but not true. And I. guess. how do you. promote responsible informa-. information? >> I think the best. way for YouTube to approach it, which is. how do you wrestle with this concept of. an open platform, but also having some. rules for the road in terms of how. things operate on YouTube. For example, you know, we never allowed adult content. on on YouTube, right? Like how did do.

make that decision? What was important. behind it, etc. And again, our approach there is to be. very clear about what um sort of those. baseline rules are. There are, as you. know, pages and pages of them. And we. really work hard to try to enforce them, and our enforcement is not always. perfect. One of the verticals that we. have on YouTube is news. We have lots. and lots of successful news creators. Not every creator. um is serving the same audience or.

looking to do the same thing. So, there's lots of people who are. approaching it in different ways, and I. think, honestly, that that's also a. really entrepreneurial ecosystem with. lots of new news creators that, you. know, other folks might have different. opinions on. It's not, I think, we are. not qualified to have a point of view on. this particular creator XYZ is better. than this particular creator. Um the. audience makes that judgment. I always. say that, you know, the best way to.

think about the YouTube algorithm is to. replace the word algorithm with. audience. And that is because it is a. reflection of the audience. That's the. reason why creators. who are successful on our platform have. that notion of authenticity because. what the out quote-unquote algorithm is. doing is adjusting to your behavior on. YouTube. >> I want to thank you so much for your. time today. I really appreciated it. We'll talk again. >> Yeah, thank you.

>> On the interview, we speak to our guest. twice. So, the next day I called Neal. back, and we spoke about AI. Thank you so much for sitting down with. me yesterday. >> Of course. >> And I was wondering if there was. anything that you were thinking about. after our last conversation before I ask. you some other questions about your own. sort of personal journey. >> Yeah, um you know, I I appreciated the. conversation, and I do really appreciate. how much um depth we got into.

You know, I was as I was thinking about. it on my on my way home in the evening. Um, you know, one of one of the things. that's struck me, I think, is. a lot of the examples and a lot of the. conversation was. very, uh, US focused, which makes sense. We're. based in the US here. But but one of the things that's super. interesting, at least to me, about. YouTube is that it's. truly global. You know, you could be a. fan of, you know, this particular type. of dance that might originate in,

you know, in Canada, but you might be. living in Southern India and vice versa. and those types of things and that's. that's also kind of a very interesting. phenomenon that's happened. as a result of. of YouTube. So, that was that was sort. of one thing that that had occurred to. me. >> Yeah, in fact, I want to talk a little. bit about AI in a minute and one of the. innovations that you have enabled is. using language now to be able to get. creators, who are in their native language and.

you know, you can see them in your. native language and so that of course. opens up just everyone's content much, much more widely. I was watching a, you. know, Argentinian creator. I do speak. Spanish, but it was amazing to see that. all translated in real time in English, you know, for people who might not speak. the language. So, >> Yeah, that's actually a perfect example, a kind of an of the moment example, for. sure. >> Well, I'm glad you mentioned this global. reach because I was actually thinking. about you and your journey. You know, your father moved to the US.

with $25 in his pocket, as you've said. before, from India to do his PhD in the. United States. And then you grew up in. the Midwest, which you have described as. a sort of very typical 70s and 80s. childhood, which by the way, I remember. too, you know, watching Star Wars, going. to the movie theater. And then at age. 10, your family moved back to India. I wondered what helped you get through. that shock of this one very specific. kind of experience and then finding. yourself in a completely different.

context? >> Uh so, as you said, I was, you know, grew up in in Michigan, um you know, love Star Wars and Transformers and all. of that sort of good stuff. Um. I was a big sports kid back then, too, and when I moved to India, um it was a. bit of a um. uh culture shock, even though obviously. my parents are of Indian heritage, but I. couldn't speak the language, I couldn't. read and write it, and um. you know, you fast-forward through that. experience and um I think, you know,

obviously. I appreciate that experience deeply, and. a lot of it I think, you know, you you. draw these sort of direct lines. sometimes, um. or you sort of kind of. justify in reverse, but I really do. genuinely believe there's a direct line. from that experience, um because um. I saw a lot of sort of like. commonalities between global culture, differences, and sort of that nuance,

and. I think that me becoming someone. just a fan of kind of media and. storytelling and everything from music. to sports to ultimately Bollywood and. Hollywood and and the like, I think. stemmed from the fact that that was the. way that I connected, frankly, with. different cultures and different people, and it was the way that I. moved from being like an outsider to. having friends. >> In speaking to people who do know you,

they do say that you have this very even. temper, a very even keeled. You don't. let yourself get swept up in. crises, which any CEO has to deal with. How do you. apply that in terms of something. difficult comes your way and you have to. figure out how to navigate it as a. leader. >> It's funny, my my wife jokes that I'm. even killed Neil. That's sort of what. she what she'll what she calls me. Um.

you know, I for the first thing just to. be to be very sort of candid with you, I. think. um by the time a a decision gets to me, almost by definition it's a difficult. decision because and often times it's a. trade-off between two bad choices, right? Or two very difficult choices. Otherwise, that decision would be made, you know, somewhere else in the. organization. It wouldn't really need to. come to me. And so what I try to do um. to the to the best of my ability and we. talked a lot about this yesterday, too,

is. I really do try to focus uh beforehand. on. the principles by which we will make. those decisions and I believe that. principles are particularly important in. tough decisions that involve trade-offs. In terms of. um examples, I'll I'll give you. I'll give you one that's a very YouTubey. kind of example that's sort of deep in. the in the YouTube ecosystem from a few. years ago. So um if you are watching a YouTube.

video, you'll notice below that video. there's a like and a dislike button. And. um. you can tap that obviously many many. people tap that after they're watch a. video, like, dislike, and we used to. have a count next to the those buttons, the dislike button in particular. And um a few years ago we removed it. And that sounds like a small thing, like. just a number right below the video, but. it was a really really big thing in the. YouTube ecosystem because it was part of.

the YouTube heritage, where YouTube. started from, you know, we were the you. know, the the platform that had a count. across that, so your video had to stand. up to scrutiny from this audience. And um. so lots of creators were very very. attached to it, particularly larger. creators who, you know, and and you. know, some viewers were attached to it, too, cuz it was like how to That's a. quick way to evaluate a video before you. watch it. However, a few years ago, it. was becoming clear that specially for. smaller creators or perhaps marginalized.

creators, it was becoming something that. could potentially get weaponized and. used as a means to. troll them or have a robot army sort of. kind of get at them. And so we made the. dis- difficult decision, and ultimately. I made it, to remove that count. It was positively received in many ways, but it was extremely critically received. in other ways, but I think having those. principles allowed me to ultimately make. that call that.

was a. in in the YouTube world was a very. consequential thing, even though it. seemed small. >> I want to talk about um what's here and. what's coming, and we touched on AI. already a little bit, but this is the. huge conversation that everyone's. having, and you've declared war on AI. slop, but you're also handing creators. tools to use AI, and I'm just wondering. how you distinguish between what it is a. creative AI video. that creators are using in a good way. and AI slop.

>> Yeah, you're you're you're really. getting at the the heart of the matter. So this is. uh and I would say that, just to be very. transparent, I don't think that this is. a solved question by any means, and. frankly, the rate at which AI is. impacting all of our lives, the. the ground beneath that question is. changing on a weekly basis, if not even. faster, so I just I want to be very. up-front about that. But I I have this. very firm conviction that it will never. replace.

um human creativity. Again, back to one. of the very first things we talked about. yesterday, which is that notion of. authenticity. People want to see, you know, an artist. on stage because they know something. about her life story and they have some. background in terms of why she wrote the. lyrics that way and why she's performing. it that way. We've had AI possible to the point where. computers can play chess, but for it to.

be interesting on YouTube, at least one. of the contestants has to be a human. And so, because of this notion of the. human stories on YouTube, we I. absolutely cannot have it be overrun. with AI slop. And what if AI, of course, does is just like it can be a tool to. produce amazing content or further. democratize content creation so that. another entirely new class of creators. can come on board like the first. YouTubers 20 years ago, it can also. allow for the creation of lots of. low-quality content. And so,

that's where the AI slop question comes. in and there I think there's aspects of. it that are not new. The part that's new is the scale, but. the notion of low-quality content, click-baity content, content that might be produced for. monetization. motives, but is not actually. quality to a certain level. We've we've. been able to deal with that on YouTube. And so, I think, you know, just like AI is.

powering some of that low-quality. content, it can also be used to combat. it on YouTube in terms of what we. recommend or what have you. That's so. that's that's. and then the last point that I'll make. on this. that I think is you alluded to as well. is I also think that we have to have a. bit of a delicate hand on this. And this is where this is the part. that's the unsolved part because. um. AI-created content does not mean. low-quality content. Amazing content is. produced by AI just like.

technologies from the past whether it's. Photoshop or the drum machine produced a. new form of creativity and I do think. that's what's happening in the AI world. and and so we can't have too many of. those false positives where we're sort. of killing the new form of creativity. that's driven by these tools and I would. tell you that every day we're trying to. really strike that balance. but we're very very focused on making. sure that. when you open up the YouTube app it's. it's not a feed of of AI slop.

>> Yeah, I mean. right now you have a like a small little. stamp when AI has been used on a. on on something that is posted. Is that enough? >> Yeah, I my personal view is that it is. sort of table stakes but I do think that. it's a place to start and I think the. other. really big thing that I hear from when I. speak to. creators, public figures, journalists, etc. is.

being able to manage their likeness in. this in this AI world and that is I. think something that is profoundly. important in my view and not just like. the classic sort of deep fakes and all. those types of things of course but also. impersonation for. you know. to trick a user or to steal someone's. creative idea and things like that and.

so those things I think are also. important that will not get solved with. an AI label. but also but need to have tools and so. one of the areas that we're very focused. on is this notion of. we call it likeness detection. We've had. a technology here at YouTube for a long. time called content ID was actually in. some sense one of the very early uses of. AI almost a decade ago if if not longer. and it allows rights holders, artists,

musicians, whether if you're Taylor. Swift or what have you to make a choice. when your music is used or when your a. particular, you know, movie character is. used to either take down that video or. monetize that video and it has created. the ecosystem that exists on YouTube. So. that principle of content ID, we want to. carry over to the AI world. The big. picture question around like, well, you. know, if um a video can do something. XYZ, can review a technology product and.

can create, you know, a fake reviewer to. do that or an AI generated reviewer to. do that, then who needs me? I really believe and again, I could be. naive on this is. what shines through on YouTube is that. human connection, what that person. stands for, um you know, uh just like in your case, people. understand what the interview means, they know how Lulu's going to approach. it and I just I don't think that that is. going to get swapped by, you know, AI.

generated, you know, pick take your pick, journalist, artist, musician and and. that's that I I have seen nothing. despite all the rapid progress here that. would be contrary to what I what I said. >> Can you promise me that there's not. going to be a Lulu bot doing my job in 2. years? >> I really I I don't and by the way, I I'm. also not naive to the point to say that. there isn't going to be a disruption. Like there's a whole supply chain of.

creativity and I do think the and just. like is happening in the software. industry, there is a going to be a. change in the nature of the jobs, how. those jobs are done, even who does them. So I don't want to trivialize that. disruption. Of course, that happens with. any big. technology paradigm shift and AI is not. going going different in that context. But to your core question of the. replacement of that human creativity. element in what people connect with. um on a service like YouTube, I just.

don't see. AI generation replacing um. uh the humans that produce, you know, videos on YouTube. >> All right, I'm going to come back in 2. years and and if I'm still here, you'd. be right. I'll be holding you to that. >> All right. Last question. Um. one of the things that really struck me. from everything we talked about is how. you said that YouTube is really this. reflection of humanity. And, you know, as we've mentioned, you. have billions of users, you get a lot of.

information from. all those users. And, I'm just wondering. what you've learned about humanity. leading YouTube. What surprised you? >> Oh, um. you know, I could I could reflect on. this for a long time, but I um and. hopefully you got some sense of this. I. I tend to be. um an optimist almost to the point of. being naive about these things, Lulu. And and.

what has what is a privilege for me on. YouTube is that, you know, despite the. challenges and, you know, despite the. incredibly complicated world that we. live in, what I love about what I see on. YouTube is. um. like the the common humanity aspect, which is. um I was watching, you know, YouTube on. my television set last night, and I was. watching a. a YouTuber lives in New York City, reviews restaurants. And, you know, the.

restaurant aspect of that was. interesting, but the way that he talked. about his life and how he anticipated. going to have that meal and. and his experience after that meal. Like, that's what I mean by the common. humanity, and that shines through in. YouTube. It's almost as if like if. aliens discovered Earth, you know, what. 5,000 years from now, YouTube is that. encapsulation of that. And on balance, I. think. it's awesome.

>> Thank you so much. I've really enjoyed. this conversation. >> Thank you, Lulu. Appreciate it. >> I'm Lulu Garcia-Navarro. >> And I'm David Marchese. >> And we're the hosts of The Interview, an. audio and video podcast from The New. York Times. >> Every week we interview fascinating and. influential people from all walks of. life. >> Subscribe to our YouTube channel so. you'll never miss an episode.