Miley Cyrus on Fame, Rage and How Therapy Saved Her Life | The Interview

Ariana says that there should be, you. know, the therapy for child actors, which I totally agree. Miley to your right. Beautiful. This is. the interview. I'm Lulu Garcia Navaro. and this week I'm speaking with Miley. Cyrus. Miley Cyrus has been famous. almost her whole life. She's the. daughter of Billy Ray Cyrus of Achy. Breaky Heart fame. But she got her own start as the star of. Disney's Hannah Montana, where she. played a regular girl by day and a pop.

star by night. She then became an actual. pop star. Kind of anti- Disney pop star, though. Who can forget her 2013 performance at. the VMAs where she twerked with Robin. Thick. Now it's many albums later. She. just won her first Grammy last year and. she's out with a new album called. Something Beautiful. But I don't want to talk about it. We. sat down to talk about all of it. I. don't need anyone to commit to taking.

care of me, but don't say you will. Here's my conversation with Miley Cyrus. How was um the the Met Gala? Met Gala. Met gallas, you know, where you're kind. of I'm sitting with strangers. I sat. this year with Cardier cuz I was wearing. Alia who does not have a table. Okay. So, I was kind of the misfit which I'm. always okay with. I'm I'm used to that. It was fine. Um but it's just an. interesting situation cuz everything.

that makes you comfortable is taken from. you. You know, it's a I think they. should add you get a plus one for your. stylist cuz you're like, you know, that's why people I guess go with their. designer sometimes, right? Cuz they. totally and my designer is dead. So, who. are you sitting with then? I sat with a. bunch of people that I didn't really. know. Um, but I always make friends. there. I really like John Batist. I. thought he was like so cool. I love him. He was my most memorable like guest cuz. I just sat and talked to him forever.

He's super awesome. He like sat down. The first thing he asked me was, "What's. your favorite key to sing in?" Which no. one's ever asked me before. And he goes, "I'm guessing it's a G or a C, but I. think F would probably be your ceiling.". And said that right away. I'm like, "You're my friend. I like you." And what. what is your favorite key? He was right, GNC. He was spot on. He was amazing. All. right. Um, we're going to talk a little. bit about the past. Going to talk a. little bit about obviously your new. music. Um, so we're just going to. wander. Whatever. You want to take a. break? By all means, I appreciate it. I. feel good. I like being in this room. This room's good. Oh, we like it. Yeah.

All right. This is I've got a pretty. good compass of like where I feel at. home now. And so, just being able to sit. in a space where you feel really safe, always you get more clarity and more. honesty. And that's what I'm always. looking for, you know. Um, I've. interviewed you before. You look really. familiar to me. No, we never saw each. other cuz I was at NPR. The voice. Um, I. was a new host back then. I hadn't done. a lot of celebrity interviews and you. came on and said, "Ask me anything,

anything at all. It's, you know, no. holds barred." And I had no idea what to. do with that. I literally just froze and. thought I don't know what to what to ask. Miley Cyrus if she's saying ask me. anything. And I was wondering as I've. watched you kind of evolve if you would. say something like that now starting an. interview. It depends who I'm with. I. think I would say something like that. now but with you know maybe just a.

paying a little closer attention. But. yeah, you can ask me anything because. now I learned that I'm in control, which. is probably why I said it to you. Then. the worst that happens is I just leave. the room and say, you know, I'll be. right back and then just don't come. back. I'd love for you to explain what. that means for you now when you have. this idea of being in control and being. safe and understanding what your own. boundaries are and how you interact with. people. You know, why is that so? Yes. Because it's anim animalistic. It's. like, you know, everything will change.

the moment that anyone or any animal is. unsafe. It's like we all have our. different kind of tellers. Mine is like. all in the throat, which makes so much. sense. It's where I feel everything. I. can feel like, you know, a tightness or. a shortness of breath or I can feel kind. of like my skin change of when I feel, you know, that I'm not completely safe. And you know, I've given myself a. mantra, don't run. You know, cuz I can I. don't want to leave situations that make. me uncomfortable cuz that's what life. is. You know, we got to be comfortable.

being uncomfortable. But I also am, you. know, I'm the mother to myself. I mother me. H how does that play out? You mother I I mean, I love that. I've. never really heard that. because my mom. no longer travels with me because I'm 33. years old and it was getting ridiculous. and now she's like an adult and I'm an. adult and it was really important for me. to, you. know, I never want to say detach from my. mom cuz we're so close. I mean, I'll get. tears in my eyes even talking about her. I just love her so much. But I at one.

point we're talking about Tish. Yes. Tish my mom. She's everything. I, you. know, had to learn that, you know, there. might be and if nature plays its course. in the way that it does, I will be an. individual without my mom at some point. in my lifetime. And that used to just. completely paralyze me in fear. And so I. guess the reason I said I mother me is. because I don't have my mom with me the. way that I used to. And now I just go, what was it about her that made.

everything better? and it was safety. again cuz I knew any situation that I. was in that I didn't feel safe in, my. mom would get me out of it and or make. it better. Figure out what it is that. was making me feel that way and her. helped me adjust it. And so now I just. imagined what soothed me so much about. her and then I just do it for myself. You have been famous forever. Um it. feels like um. and these past few years have been.

absolutely huge for you. Uh last year. you won your first Grammy for your song. Flowers off your last album and you. exuded so much joy and so much. gratitude. And so I'm wondering why. winning meant so much. So, I think I. never admitted to myself how much it. hurt me to not always be recognized for. my work. And, you know, I had a lot of songs that Flowers isn't.

my only big song. I've had other big. songs, but it was the time that I got. recognized for it. And I think I've. hidden behind it didn't matter because. then every time it happens annually, it. would have hurt. And so when I finally. did get recognized again, it was just. like an extra layer of that bandage over. something that I didn't even know really. hurt me. And you know, now I have enough. understanding to say like I don't need. to win, but like anyone I want to. Why.

do you think it took so long? I think. when you do things your own way, um. you're always, you know, respectfully a. a little bit ahead cuz I like to open. the door. I, you know, it's nice when. someone opens it for you, but I kind of. like to be in front and open the door. myself. And I. think women that are loud and, you. know, like open with their sexuality, and I don't want to hide behind that,

but I do think something of my I think. there's a couple things. Let's go back. I think from starting from being on. Disney, you already have something that. you kind of have to overcome, which I've. never understand. I've never understood. needing to. overcome Disney or being Hannah Montana. because Hannah Montana was uh like a. singer and the music I was never. nominated for best new artist which was. totally cool with me but at one point I. just think I kind of was the best new.

artist and if it wasn't the best it was. the most impactful to a certain. generation that there there should be. some sort of recognition for that and. also the amount of work that I was. putting in was so heavy. So I think with. the Grammys it was like overcoming it. was overcoming Disney, overcoming the. character. Um and then when I left the. character behind. like all the way behind like it was like. okay cut. I am officially like so me. that I think I just went so many steps.

ahead really fast and I don't think that. everyone could completely you know keep. up. But then also, female rebellion has. always been something that, you know, takes a little while for critics and. for, you know, sophisticated shows to. totally take that woman seriously. There's a lot there to unpack. Um, that. was breathless, but no, there's just like there's a lot. there. I'm really interested with the. idea of having to overcome your Hannah.

Montana days in the sense of being. considered a real artist, right? Yeah, that's what I think it kind of was. Yeah. That the machinery of Disney and. how it's, you know, been the place that. a lot of people have come from. But. there were other Disney artists that got. dominated in that category, but they I. believe I don't know who else before. that, but the Jonas Brothers, but it was. boys and so they didn't have like a. character to shed. But because I wore a. wig and I was a pop star, you know, I.

remember being brokenhearted because the. Jonas Brothers, I believe, got asked to. perform with Stevie Wonder. And you. know, I never got an opportunity like. that as a young girl when you know, I my. show had been on air for years before. and I had had everyone on that show with. Dolly Parton. We've had Vicky Lawrence. who like taught me so many amazing. things, you know. So somewhere it. actually was the greatest blessing. though that those awards never happened. because I was recognized all the time by. millions of people that were.

really you know their identities were. being formed by me. There's a part of. them that's like a little part of me. It's I love that people became. my you know my my reward is that people. loved me and that felt good. But, you. know, I think of course every year, you. know, never having my name called and I. was just working so hard and I did feel. like there was, you know, um, not. necessarily saying I am owed it or I.

deserve it, but it just felt like what. am I not doing? Where's the math? Cuz I. feel like if we're doing the equation, I. feel like it equals some sort of, you. know, just validation. I want to talk. about the new album. Mhm. um something beautiful. I've always had. a bit of trouble pinning your music down. because you are always experimenting in. this way that's innovative. You go. through different genres, different. types of music. Um and so I'd love to.

know what you're trying to do with this. album. I have a hard time pinning myself. down, too. And and I wouldn't say that. all my albums are even necessarily. reflective of what I would say or who I. would say I am as an artist or musician. Sometimes my albums, you know, are. experimentation for me and they end up. being shared. And so with something. beautiful, I wanted to, you know, reclaim and reimagine the word beautiful.

and what it means to me. Some of the. most beautiful moments in my life. you. know, I am also a very emotional. I get. I cry about everything. So, I'm fine, you know, but when I think about, you. know, being born, the first person that. I saw was my grandma. And then what it. gets me emotional and um you know, my. mom was adopted and so being able to be. put into her arms and and immediately. think it just it's deep. It's like be. way before me, you know, there's so much.

there. And when I think about these. moments in my life being handed to her. when I was first born, um, and then, you. know, when she passed away, both of. those moments were so beautiful to me. And one of them is really joyous and one. of them is really painful, but they're. equally beautiful. That's why I think. I've made this album is just to reclaim. what beauty is. Cuz I think birth is. beautiful. I think death is beautiful. We've been taught too that like rage or. hatefulness, you know, there's not a.

beauty in it. But it lets you know. you're alive. You're feeling something. And I'm a big believer in rage. You have. to get it out. I had physical pain in my. body for years. And I realize it's cuz I. didn't let myself be angry. A lot of. women I think that I've known that go, "Man, I have hip pain or have joint. pain." And then I watch them in their. lives, you know, yes, please. Thank you. You know, my mom does this. She could. order a baked potato. A cake could come. and she'll say, "Thank you so much.". much. You know, she's always polite and. she had all these headaches all the.

time. And I told her, I was like, "Mom, you got to get real mad." So, I think. rage and anger is something that we. should let ourselves feel, but it's just. keep it to your keep it to yourself. You. know, you use it. That's what I want to. do with the things that make me, you. know, angry. When was the last time you. felt rage? I think you know. what again I'm I get way too emotional. but true rage is I think. uh the way. that probably to do with my mom you know.

the or my sister it's like the way. that it's not rage. um real rage You know what? I I I can. actually know when it's real rage was um. after I made an album, Plastic Hearts, and I felt myself getting caught into um.

an idea of me, like this tornado of the. idea of me, and I fell for it, and I got. inside of it. And when I actually landed. and came back down, I realized the. vortex I had been in. And when I looked. around and thought of the people that I. had placed in my life to keep me safe. and they didn't, I had rage. I have rage. for because I actually I don't need. anyone to commit to taking care of me. But don't say you will. I understand. that this is sensitive so forgive me and.

and you can just move on. But obviously. this was the period after your divorce. and so weirdly I'm not talking about. him. Yeah. Okay. That's what I'm just. because sometimes I think people talk. about things but they're not talking. about it and I'm just trying to mine is. more. just like actually in my industry you. know I have I have a full new creative. um team that changed around me who I. have in the studio who I create music. with now. And I think this is why my. last two albums are the ones where you. can hear me the cleanest and the.

clearest them and they trust me. What is. a Miley Cyrus song? If you had to say, you know, there's like two. There's two. I heard that there's only two or three. genres. There's normal people that make normal. music for like normal people. Then. there's weird people, and we all know. that kind of music that make weird music. for weird people. And then there's weird. people that have learned how to make. normal music and kind of normal people. that know how to make weird music. And. there's only normal and weird, and. that's kind of it. So I think I make.

normal music and I also make weird. music. So like flowers is kind of like. normal music meaning you you can. understand it you know you don't have to. question you know anything after you. listen to it you can just simply enjoy. it. And then I like to make weird music. which is like a song on something. beautiful like prelude or the title. track something beautiful that just. makes you question a little bit more. So. I think Miley songs are either normal. music or weird music. You know I don't. love the middle. Um, the lead single off.

of Something Beautiful is called The End. of the World. Uh, and you've talked. about how it's a song you wrote for your. mom in a hard moment. Can you tell me. about writing it? Yeah, so that was um. completely ridiculous. Like I said, me. and my mom were are very close, but it. is ridiculous at some points because she. went on a vacation to Italy without me. for one week and it felt like the end of. the world to the both of us. She called. me. That's what the song's about. That. was what it was about. Um, I had never. had my mom leave the country without me. before. And again, too old maybe to feel.

that way, but that's how I feel. And my. mom called me and she said, "I don't. know why, but I just I want to cry. today. Like forgot where they were. Somewhere gorgeous." And she's like, "I. just I'm looking out my window and. there's nothing out there for me cuz. like you're back home." And um the first. lyric is today you woke up and you told. me that you wanted to cry. That was my. mom. Hm. Um, you sang the song um at the Chateau. Marmont and you got really emotional.

during it. What was going on there? My. mom was right in the front row and you. know there's a part uh it does it to me. now. There's a lyric that says, "You've. been thinking about the future like it's. already yours." And to me, that was just. like a lyric about kind of not only. mortality, but also just Yeah. that that. that every day isn't promised to us, so. worrying about the future that may never. come is so pointless. But then me. thinking about a future without her just. breaks my heart. So that's that lyric.

gets me every time. You're also. releasing a film to go with the album. Um, and that's a first for you. Why did. you want to make a film? It's a visual. album. And the reason I chose to do it. was cuz I wanted to do one. thing extremely well. You know, my. stepdad asked me the other day, "Why are. you the only one without a makeup line?". I was like, "Cuz I don't that's not my. passion." He goes, "That's the right. answer." And it made so much sense. It's. like, "I don't have a makeup line. because I'm not a makeup artist." Some. people operate differently, you know. And um Dolly's always says, "You do you.

and I'll do me. Together we'll be us.". this woman has cupcakes, you. know, amusement parks, all the things. I've never felt like that was really for. me and I've always admired that she um. can and wants I mean it's like a deep. passion of hers. She absolutely adores. it. To me, it's me by a piano writing. songs and telling my stories and then. creating a gorgeous visual in support of. that. That's what I love to do. It brings to mind a question that I I've.

always had, which is you started your. career as an actor. um and a singer obviously, but you other. than a few brief acting gigs really kind. of left that behind. Why? Well, it's. actually really interesting because be I. got Hannah Montana because I was a. singer. So, I was singing in Nashville. There was a little place at our mall. where you could go and make demos. This. is Nashville for you. You know, Nashville is like we don't have a. Build-A-Bear. We have like build a. country music star. So, I used to go to.

the mall and make my demos and write my. songs. And they were looking for someone. that could, you know, really sing, not. just record kids music, but actually. have music being the heart of the show. So, I was chosen to be an actress. because I was a singer. So, I got known. as being an actress, but I actually. hadn't acted in anything. I had been in. a baked bean commercial with Leanne Wac. and I had two lines in a Tim Burton. movie one time. I was not an actress and. so I, you know, became an actress so I.

could bring that part to life and then. I've just never really found the role. for me because I think I am such a. character in myself that to find. something that can absorb me completely. is really challenging. And I challenge. every writer and director out there to. bring it to me because I would love to. I just need um I either want to be. myself because I'm really good at that. or I want to throw me away cuz I'm. actually pretty good at that too.

I'm not good in the middle. Yeah. I want. to take you um we've touched on this, but your sort of upbringing obviously. your dad was Billy Ray Cyrus um and is. and is he's living. He's living. Yeah. He's living. Yeah. Yeah, indeed. Um, and. I was curious um about Little Miley. When did you realize that you had this. talent that you could really sing? Not. just sing sing, but sing? Well, even.

more than that, people just used to pay. attention to me in weird ways that I. noticed that like when I would go. somewhere like not everyone was being. kind of like looked at or treated the. way that I was. I used to have this. thing when my mom my mom was like a. total shopaholic when I was a kid. So, she would take me to the mall, which is. the worst place for a kid with like a. bad attention span. And my favorite. thing to do would to be going into the. front of the stores and pretend I was a. mannequin. And I would hold it for so.

long I would not budge. And I would get. crowds of people around staring at me. because I was just like milking it so. hard. And they I think they were like, "How long is this little girl going to. like keep up the bit?" And I would just. do the bit. And so. I, you know, I definitely noticed that. like people kind of, you know, there was. something magnetic between me and other. people. And I don't say they were. magnetized to me. I was actually like. magnet. We were we were to each other. with the singing, you know, I I would. just always sing on stage and I didn't.

know if people were just cheering cuz I. was, you know, like little and it was. cute for me to come out and do like. Elvis songs or whatever. Um, but I. guess, you know, I never really thought. like, oh, I can really sing. I just know. that people were reacting and so that's. what I was going off of. I wasn't. thinking about is this good or bad. I. was just watching people light up and. going like, yeah, that's what I want. I. want you to react to. me. I heard you mention briefly in a. recent interview with David Letterman. that you were bullied in middle school.

um, before you left for Hollywood in. Hannah, Montana. And you know, I'm I'm. the mother of a of a 12-year-old girl. and ouch, I feel for her. Yeah. Middle. school is terrible. And I'm. wondering what you took away from that. period of your life where all of a. sudden you go off to have like this. amazing success, but you know, you had. this really painful time. Like why was. that happening? I don't know if there. was a reason, you know, that I was like.

specifically chosen to be bullied. I. think a lot of what did it for me in. middle school was the attention that I. had on me because of my dad. Um and just. you know people. like I guess putting on to me that I. thought that I was you know special in. this other way and it so it wasn't about. I don't think what hurt them was that I. was special but it was that it just made. them feel not special. And I also you. know as outgoing as I was middle school. was kind of a shy time for me. I kind of.

shut down at that time just because, you. know, bullying just takes so much from. you. You just don't want attention. And. so I I kind of like wanted to be under. the radar when I was in middle school. I. chilled out, you know, when I was like. in elementary school, I liked all the. attention. But then once I got to middle. school, I didn't like it so much cuz. people got too mean, too cruel, and I. didn't, you know, I didn't like have all. the boyfriends or anything like that. Like I just I just h there's like four.

guys I'm thinking of that I'm like you. like I really liked so many guys and. like they just weren't really liking me. back quite as much and there was like I. just wasn't I wasn't the most like. popular girl in school. So, you end up. going to Hollywood and you do Hannah. Montana. And it's interesting that we've. been talking a little bit about getting. over Disney because I had another former. Disney star who's now an actor, Jenna. Ortega, um, tell me that she can always. tell in a room who is the child actor,

that there's like a certain noticeable. precociousness. She said people just. treat you as if you're an adult. Um, and. that it kind of warps you. Do you think. that that resonates? I, you know, I was just literally still. thinking about middle school. I'm really. hoping in the comments of this interview. someone goes, "Miley's lying. She was. really popular in school." And I'm going. to be like, "Oh my god, I was popular.". Maybe, maybe I was. I'm like, I feel. like I like I wasn't. That's what I was. really totally spacing out when you were. saying that. I could tell that you were.

like not with me at all. I was really. hoping that someone will go like, "You. were just trying to say you weren't. popular. You totally were." I really. hope that I was, but I don't think I. was. But maybe I was. But my point about. that with the child acting, it actually. um correlates to that because I don't. know how she feels about it. I've never. actually got to speak to her. I would. totally love to. I think people that. grew up in the same position would be. really sick to do like a round table. I. think you should all be in a group chat. Totally. Ariana says that there should. be, you know, the therapy for child. actors, which I totally agree. Like. there should be a weekly, you know,

check-in. There should be like a better. system of community cuz I don't know. her. I would definitely love to. Um, I. think that I've done, you know, so this. is only me, nothing to do with what she. said. I've been, you know, doing very. consistent, uh, you know, therapy since. I was 17 or 18 years old. And so I think. I've cleared up a lot of the feelings. that I had about being, you know, like a. child star. And so now I don't notice it. so much because I don't notice it in me.

It's it's always about us. You know, I. realized that anything that you're. paying attention to, usually it's just a. reflection of something else that you. feel. So, I feel so cleaned up. Like, I. cleaned so much of any of that old stuff. that I held on to that now when I walk. into a room, I don't really notice it. I. guess the only thing that I would say is. I do notice when people are working too. hard. um to answer that question to. challenge myself on what I just said. Maybe I actually do notice because when. I just, you know, I I met Sabrina.

Carpenter a couple of times and every. time I see her, I have the urge to tell. her, you know, ask her if she's okay. Like, are you doing good? Like, are you. getting enough sleep? Cuz I'll see her, you know, she's like performing in. Ireland and then the next day she's. doing like a show in Kansas. And I'm. like, I don't know how that could be. physically okay, you know, cuz I was in. that situation. So maybe I do notice. more and I kind of have the thing of. just wanting to make sure everyone's. feeling good cuz I just, you know, I. know what it feels like to fry yourself. and I just don't want anyone to get. fried. But I like all the the new girls.

I think they're all very, you know, unique and are very found. That's what I. like to see. I like people that are that. are that have found themselves cuz I. don't know if I had myself totally. figured out yet. Speaking of, you know, um, a lot of young stars have had to. find themselves, um, in the limelight. and. yours was a similar journey. Uh, there. was a lot of scrutiny, a lot of. discussion. Um, when you look back at. that period, 2013, uh, when you were,

you know, on stage with Robin Thick and. getting a lot of criticism for twerking. at the VMAs, all you have to say is. 2013. I know where we're going. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I I guess I'm. wondering while you were shedding your. Disney persona and becoming an adult in. the public eye, when you look back at. that period, what do you see? I see. adults not acting like it. That's what I. see because I would never look at. someone that's 18, 19, 20, 21 years old.

and judge them as an adult. Um, because. they're not yet. And I'm 33. So, like, you know, there's there was definitely, you know, at one point, I think there. was even a petition. It was like. millions of moms against Miley or. something. I would never I'm laughing. But it's true. Did you sign the. petition? Is that what made you laugh? I'm just messing with you. Oh my god. You look like you're like, "That was. me." Isn't that crazy? This like. petition. I'm going, well, now it seems. very soft if you look at culture today,

you know, cuz I I. like it in 2013 maybe it felt really. shocking, but at the end of it, when you. watch it back, it really wasn't that. wild. I mean, I was dressed as a teddy. bear. And um when you look at culture. now, you know, young people, they sing. about sex all the time. So, it's like, and by the way, they sang about sex way. before I did, too. So, that's a thing. Um, but you know, for me, I think what I. see is, you know, what I see in myself. is being bold and courageous and like. having the guts and I see myself being.

authentic to me. That's what I was. doing. In the same vein, you've said. that you'll never be able to live down. the image of you swinging naked on a. wrecking ball, which I don't know why, but but um I don't need to live it down. Yeah. Yeah. Um, which you did in the. music video for the song. Shenado Connor. um wrote an open letter to you after the. Wrecking Ball video was released and I. just I responded in a way that I would. never as an as an adult. But that was. also an adult talking to a young person.

Yeah. I mean, she wrote, "The music. business doesn't give a [ __ ] about you. or any of us. They will prostitute you. for all your worth and cleverly make um. you think that it's what you wanted.". That sounds again like something that's. again, you know, the more sophisticated. you are, you can kind of start to notice. that when we say I know that I say. things and I think, you know, at the end. of it, we both let me let me retract. that. The way I would say it is that. feels like an her experience, you know, being reflected on to me, but that's not.

my experience. My experience was not. that the music industry didn't care. about me, you know. Yeah, that's what I. was wondering if like looking back those. words have a different resonance now or. you just see them differently. No, I. still don't feel that way. But I also. came from a very different upbringing. where I I've known fame since the moment. that I was born and I've never known. anything else. And so I think I was. really well prepared in a way that. someone you it's really hard to train.

yourself to uh know what to expect. everything that fame can bring. But I. already had the handbook because they. did the same thing to my dad, you know. So I and to Dolly and to everyone around. me, you know. Um Dolly is a great. example of that. And so. I I felt that, you know, you know what I. think it is? I understand the business. I'm in. I'm in the music industry. I'm. in the record business. So, when I sign.

a contract, they're buying, you know, records that they wish to sell. So, I. understand that I am setting myself up. to become merchandise. I'm committed to. them that I want to not only bring. success for myself, but to them also. So, I just understand the the music. industry, and at one point in my life, I. look forward to just being an artist, untied, untethered. At some point, I'll. get to do that. I guess I was thinking. also of Chenade because you did her song. Nothing Compares to You on. SNL50 this past February and considering.

the history, I was wondering why you. chose her song. Well, again, well, it. was actually Lauren Michael's request. Um Lauren asked me to do Nothing. Compares to You and it was originally. Mark Ronson's idea who was uh kind of. creative directing the music. And um so. that was that was. initially, you know, didn't come from. me, but I thought it was a great idea. because I think we all had again talking. about those band-aids on heartaches and.

wounds. Of course, this, you know, interaction that I had with Chenade, you. know, bums me out cuz I really respect. her as a person, as an artist. And so, it was my way of, you know, paying my. respects. I find, you know, the. relationship between female pop stars to. be really interesting and often very. fraught. Um, divas, is that what you. think is happening? I mean, I probably. on my end, I'm I I you know, I don't. mind the word diva. Maybe I'm a little.

diva. I don't mind the word either. It's. kind of cool. Diva. It's like, yeah, you. know, it's a fantasy. You can be a diva. You don't have to even be famous to be a. diva. Just be a diva. Doesn't mean. you're diva does not mean difficult for. no reason. That's what that's not a. diva. Do you think you're difficult? Not. for no reason. I'm difficult, but not. for no reason. I was just surprised that. you have said that you don't feel part. of the cohort of singers of your, you. know, sort of generation and age group. Not that I think again everyone needs to. have a group chat, but that um that.

you've sort of held yourself apart in a. certain way. And I'm I was wondering. like why you think that is. I don't. think it's so much of a conscious. choice. I think for me I'm my persona or. like my the public's idea of me, you. know, um is on in some way, but in my. own time I am very off. you know, I like. no makeup, my hair up messy, don't even. have to I don't even look in the mirror.

in my own time. Um, and it's been, you. know, I it's not that I haven't found it. cuz I haven't looked very hard. I'm sure. like, you know, girls in my community. are going like, well, that's me, too, and you haven't reached out. It's like, no, I haven't. I haven't looked very. hard. So, no, I haven't found it, but I. haven't really looked. You know, I I. kind of I like doing my my two worlds. Maybe it's something like subconsciously. from the show like from Hannah Montana. where I think like my famous person has.

one life and then like as a regular. person I have another life. I think. maybe like subconsciously it programmed. me not even joking to think that like. like you know who I am at home and like. who I am as a performer are like kind of. two separate identities and actually. they are. It's almost like the superhero. cape. It's definitely a superhero cape. but it's drag. You know that's how rude. So that's why when RuPaul like started. coming into culture, I was like, I get. this. This is what I do. Also, it's like. the minute I put on a gown, I'm somebody.

else. You know, you talked about how. close you are with your mom. Um, you. know, she obviously managed you. Your. grandmother was like the head of your. fan club. Uh, you had these really. strong female um, sort of lineage. I. don't know the story though about how. Queen Dolly became your godmother. like. why did that happen? Because of Hannah. Montana. Um because she played my aunt. on the show, but I've known her since I. was a little girl cuz my dad did music. with her when I was just a baby. And so.

then I hadn't seen her since I was, you. know, very young. And we got really. tight during the Hannah Montana time, you know. I think she like looked at a. little girl in a blonde wig and was. like, "I see you." Um and there was. something just very you know we it was. just divine and kismmet like we just. we're not blood but we're family you. know truly um she said kind of you know. when we first started getting very close. it was like you know I never felt this. kind of like a daughter you know she's.

really held me like a daughter and um so. she was the godmother you chose. Yeah. And she chose me really, right? Um, you. know, we chose each other. Like she. walked in and she just like she had on a. baby pink robe and like smelled like. baby powder, like you know, her whole. thing, her whole face, the hair, the. wig, the whole thing. And everyone was. like kind of in awe of her. And I. remember thinking that I didn't feel. that. I actually felt cuz when you see. her at first, it's just so incredible. that like you're kind of taken back by.

just how much power she holds. But I. just felt instead of seeing myself like. retract in like awe of her, I just felt. myself going forward and just feeling. really safe again. And it also felt like. I can do this for the rest of my life. and I can be happy cuz she just is so. happy and has so much joy. And you see. the um you know, you see the like. celebrities that don't have joy in their. life. And she's someone else that you. know obviously had a super private. relationship and a private life and it. was just something I always admired more. than the way that she looks or the way.

that she performs. I admired her um you. know her staying true to herself and. being at home with her husband Carl who. she just lost and having a real life and. having a lot of love in it. I I do. wonder at this point what it's like for. you to have grown up so famous and to. also be part of this famous family. Um. because in the past few years, you know, your mom remarried and that caused um. some riffs in your family. Your dad has. a new relationship with Elizabeth. Hurley. Um, and all this stuff gets. picked apart sort of endlessly in the.

media on social media and it must be. complicated to have all that stuff play. out publicly. Yeah. The thing I like. about the new uh way that the world. works is that everything is so fast it's. forgotten really quickly. Like if you. remember like in the '9s like when. something happened in a tabloid, remember how it just happened for like a. year and now it's just gone. And so. that's the one thing that I like about. it is that how fast social media moves. now. just eats everything, you know. So, um something may seem really important.

for a couple hours, but then there's a. meme that goes viral, you know, somebody. like scats at Walmart or something and. that becomes the next thing. So, um you. know, it's difficult for us because. anything that's happening in the public, you. know, it's just it can be embarrassing, you know, for the person that's. experiencing it, you know, not so much. for me. I try to just be more. compassionate to my parents. um because I hate that for them and and. I mostly hate it for my siblings that. have chosen to not be in this industry.

because they didn't choose that kind of. highlight on themselves. Um but for me, I've gotten so used to it that I'm like, if this is the, you know, the symptom of. this is that sometimes we deal with. these, you know, embarrassing or. difficult, you know, uh like public. opinions and that's something I'm. willing to take to have the life that we. have. But it doesn't make it any easier. You know, mostly uh what makes me, you. know, sad about it is for is for them,

you know, cuz like I said, I feel pretty. strong and I've taken so much on the. chin. I feel like I've I've stayed. strong without ever getting too. calloused or too, you know, I'm pretty. open for and vulnerable for how much. I've been through. Um but yeah, just, you know, no one likes to wake up to. that. So, it sucks, but it's worth it. Yeah. Um, are you still estranged from your. dad? Are you No, we've all, you know, I.

think timing is everything. You know, there's been enough bridges now of time. to get us all um reconnected. And I. think for me as I've gotten older. respecting my parents as individuals. instead of his parents um again because. you know. my you know my mom you know is honest my. mom's really loved my dad for her whole. life and I think being married to. someone in the music industry and not. being a part of it is obviously really. hard and so I think you know I took on.

some of my mom's hurt as my own um cuz. it hurt her kind of more than it hurt me. as an as an adult And so I owned a lot. of her pain as mine. But now that my mom. is like so in love with my stepdad, Dom, who I'm also just I completely adore. And now that my dad I see him finding. happiness outside of that too. I can I. can love them both as individuals. instead of as a as a kind of, you know, a parental pairing. I'm being an adult. about it. You know, at first it's hard.

because the little kid in you reacts. before the adult in you can go, "Yes, that's your dad, but that's just another. person that deserves to, you know, be in. his bliss and to be happy." So, my adult. self has caught up. My child self has. caught up. You've talked some about. therapy and it's just something I just. wanted to ask you because you've. discussed doing EMDR and I did EMDR. love it. Saved my life. And I'm just. wondering about that, what. it did for you, how it helped you, cuz.

it's a very specific type of therapy. that really, you know, is to do with. trauma. Yeah, you're going to get me. Uh, that that's sweet. The tag on my tea. said, "Take a moment just for you." So, I got to answer this question, but it's. for me. Um, the first thing that happened was I. was guided to seat myself on a train. Did you do it this way where you watch. it pass you by? And it's so weird. because it's like watching a movie in.

your mind. But it's different than. dreaming. You know, you're kind of more. in yourself, but still in another place. of consciousness that's really hard to. describe unless you've been in that. hypnotic state. And like I see myself. sit down on the train and I and he says, "Just watch your movie. like watch your. life like a movie and watch it pass you. by through the windows and I see all. these times just like you know like just. like frames of of these of these moments. like a film and I he goes what's the. feeling of anxiety that comes up for you.

when you're performing and I never even. thought about it before but in my. hypnotic place said I just want them to. love me so bad and he said when was the. first time you felt that way and then. suddenly The train stopped moving. forward and it started going backwards. And I saw myself sounds so trippy, but. this is medical. This is real. It is. real. It's real. I saw myself in the. womb of my biological grandmother. because my mom was adopted. And I heard.

my mom's biological parents talking. about putting her up for adoption. And I. felt myself being inside of her womb as. my mother hearing them speaking about. giving her away. and my mom thinking, I. just want them to want me. I want them. to love me so bad. And then when's the. next time you felt that way? Fast. forward, I see my mom being handed to my. grandmother who adopted her, who's my. everything. Loretta, that's my mammy.

That's she's my she was the one that did. the meet and greets. So, handing to her. and then I just like that I see myself. being handed to my grandmother too as a. baby. So I realized both as a my mom had. a really intense uh very dangerous. pregnancy with me. So I wasn't actually. handed to my mom. I was handed to my. grandma. So I saw myself being handed to. the same woman that my mom was handed. to. And I felt our unison right away. And he's like, "Keep going. Keep going.". And I found myself on a mountaintop in a.

place that I had experienced a lot of. like trauma um in the snow in Montana. It was just like a moment that it was. just a really intense kind of like uh I. guess just being surrounded by nature, you know, it really puts you in your. place. And I saw myself there as a. little girl in a coat that I used to. love. This like little red coat with a. red beret. And I saw all these people. that have brought me so much peace and. love all of a sudden show up. So my dog. that died a couple years ago, my.

grandma, my mom, it'll get me. my. boyfriend that I have now. And they all. grabbed me by the hands and we started. playing Ring Around the Rosie and I came. out of it and I've never had stage. fright again ever. Wow. I don't have. stage fright anymore. Now, I did more. sessions cuz there was so much more. under that. But I think the thing that I. had of I want them to love me so bad, it. wasn't mine. It was my mom's. And I. think maybe it pained me for her to. carry it. So, I've been carrying it for. her. I do that sometimes. So, that's. something I'm working on.

After the break, Miley and I speak again. about what her fame has done to her. family. I think it would be, you know, delusional for any of us to think that. that doesn't add a level of complication. to our already complicated dynamic. [Music].

Hi, it's Miley. Hi, it's Lulu. Hi, Lulu. How are you? I'm really good. How are. you? Very good. Good to talk to you. Good to talk to you, too. Are you home? Yes. I'm so happy. Um I was gone a. while, so just getting back in my bed is. just bliss. I'm so happy. Yeah. Heaven. I I feel you. Yeah. Um, it was just. Mother's Day. I I was thinking about you. and Tish. I was wondering what you all.

did. We did, you know, we're very kind. of simple. Um, so we didn't do much. We. cooked breakfast. You know, me and my. sister brought my mom flowers and just. sat in the kitchen and caught up. Somehow I got the duty of cooking. breakfast for six people. So, there was. that. Are you a good cook? I can do the. simple things. You know what? I'm. country enough that my seasoning is. appropriate. It's like, you know, enough.

salt on anything is good. You know, when you were talking about. your mom and your relationship with your. mom, you talked about holding this. emotional baggage. And I think the. phrase you used was owning her pain. Mhm. And it made me wonder about your. dad and if you ever felt the same about. your dad because you've talked before. about his rough childhood, about his own. upbringing, his own struggles. Definitely. I have a lot of grace for. him. Um my dad grew up in uh severe.

poverty. You know, not always having. indoor bathrooms and he had rarely, if. at all, gone to the dentist by the time. he actually met my mom. Um you know, no. doctor's appointments. you know, he was. raised in a super small town in. Kentucky. I spent some of my life in. Nashville, but most of it was in LA and. Tuca Lake and a safe neighborhood, you. know, and um I just can't even compare. our upbringings in any way, shape, or. form. You know, I think I might have. mentioned my granddad, maybe I didn't,

was a Democratic state legislator. And. so he in every way was a politician and. in that way was a showman too. Um, and. so my dad had, you know, some like. polarities in his life too because when. he was with his dad, he was living a. completely different life than when he. was with his mom. And, uh, his mom, you. know, they grew up, they all pretty much. shared one living space. And again, they. didn't always, you know, didn't have, you know, the clean essentials and had a.

really hard time in school. So, um, I. definitely, you know, have a really. compassionate place in my heart for my. dad's upbringing that I can't really. quite understand. And by the way, if at any point you. don't want to answer any of this, just. tell me. I appreciate that cuz I know. that this is sensitive. Um, the reason I. sort of wonder about this is, you know, you worked so much with your dad and. then you sort of surpassed him in. success and I wondered if you ever.

thought he felt competitive or eclipsed. by. that. That's I think has added a level. of complexity, you know, within my. family for sure. [Music]. Um, and you know, like you said, I think. it would be hard for anybody, you know, with a dream to see somebody else, you. know, achieving theirs in a way that you. see for yourself. But I do think, um, that kind of, you know, love conquered.

all in that sense of he can still find. the pride in me. But I think it would. be, you know, delusional for any of us. to think that that doesn't add a level. of complication to our already. complicated dynamic. Have you felt. guilty about it? I got rid of my guilt and shame in AMDR. That was a big part of that. So, at. times in my life, I think I've just. felt, you know, uh, guilt and shame was. a driver for me a lot. Like I had a hard. time accepting that I could suffer. because of how blessed I am. Um, I don't.

think it's. actually really played too much of a. part between uh me and my dad because I. have to have the faith that, you know, like any dad, he would want this for me. Something we didn't talk about last time. is sobriety. Mhm. Um, you've talked. about how you needed to get sober to. protect your vocal cords. Um, I'm a. fellow sober person. Love it. Um, yeah, it's been about 2 and a half years. I. know there was discussion in your family.

about your dad's sobriety. Did you ever. talk to him about that? About your own. journey and about if it could help him. or not? I think he. um has a bit of a you know harder time. completely. uh enjoying being sober. You know, I I. kind of enjoy it. I think my dad is. somebody that's like that would be real. nice right now. Um, my dad always calls. it, he calls it a good bad habit. Things. that make you feel good, but they're. bad. Um, so I think for him, you know, I.

grew up in a different generation where, you know, my dad grew up in, you know, between like, you know, the 60s and the. 80s, it wasn't normal for you to have. your psychiatrist on speed dial. So, I. think my dad just didn't really have the. support. And I think, you know, above. all the steps, I think support and. sobriety is got to be a top tier of. importance. So, you never talk to him. about it. We don't avoid it, but it's. just not, you know, not really something.

that's our table talk. You know, I think. me and my dad like to talk about music. and movies and, you know, it's not. something that's ever been our focus, but probably should be. We probably. should talk about that at some point. You know, we ended our last conversation. uh talking about your experience with. EMDR. and you were basically describing how. you work through intergenerational. trauma in your sessions and it did make. me wonder given all that is being a.

parent something you're interested. in? It's not something I'm focused on. I, you know, for being such an. opinionated kind of sure person, this is. a element in my life that I've always. been pretty um not super attached to. like a yes or no answer. So, I think I. was telling you uh you know, I was. talking to my stepdad and he said, "Why. are you the only celebrity without a. makeup line?" And I said, "Because I'm. not passionate about it." And he said, "That's the right answer." Um I feel.

that way about like motherhood. It's. just never been something that I've been. overly, you know, passionate about. And. it's a lot of responsibility and it's a. lot of devotion and uh energy and I. don't think you know if you're not. passionate about that I don't know how. you do sleepless nights and 18 years of. what my mom dealt with. And when I say. 18 years I mean 33 cuz I'm still a baby. So I just I've never felt the burn you. know and I think for me like the burn is.

everything. Last question. Um, as we were discussing. how meaningful your Grammy win was, it. made me wonder about your relationship. to mainstream success. I mean, how. important is that to you? Because you. had this whole discussion about weird. music and how you like weird music and. how you like popular music and sometimes. those two things are in tension. Mhm. Well, actually, I think it's winding. down my attachment to mainstream. success. I kind of feel like this album.

um it's not definitely not a last lap, you know, I'm definitely. not going 180 uh in my career. necessarily right now, but I think it's, you know, potentially the last time I'll. do it exactly this way. I'm taking a big. a big bet on this one. you know, I'm I'm. all in, but I don't think I'll put. myself in a position that I add this. much pressure to myself again. I think.

I've I've on this one um because of the. level of commitment, there's a lot of. pressure and a lot of things are going. to change about that for me towards the. end and the beginning of next year. I. mean, that's really kind of my focus of. using this year to kind of. wind that idea that I've had of myself. down. And, you know, there's a song on. the album called Reborn, and it's kind. of about this. And I feel like next year. for me is going to be kind of this like.

rebirth of how I, you know, how I do. things and how I look at my career. But. yeah, I feel like this for me is I'm. starting to wind down on the pressure. and not do it like that again. [Music].