Mick Jagger Can’t Name One Good Thing About Getting Older | The Interview

What on earth are we going to talk about. for 40 minutes? [laughter]. >> I have no idea. Nothing. The weather. We're starved with the weather. [music]. >> I'm David Maresy and today I'm in a. hotel in Manhattan to interview Mick. Jagger. MC Jagger truly needs no introduction. He's the legendary frontman of the. Rolling Stones who are releasing a new. album called Foreign Tongues. I've been a fan of the Stones since 1994.

when I saw them on their Voodoo Lounge. tour. It was my first ever rock concert. and it left a huge impression. Since. then, I've listened to just about every. song the band has released. From. undeniable classics like My Favorite, You Can't Always Get What You Want. [music]. >> to Obscure Like Sway? [singing]. >> And I've always wondered, what's MC. Jagger really like? Here's my. conversation with Mick [music] Jagger. >> Mick. >> Hi, David.

>> Thank you for taking the time to speak. with me today. >> That's right. Fun. >> Uh, I have a bunch of questions about. the new album. Okay. >> Uh, but I'd like to start with a. question that comes from a place of pure. personal curiosity. Okay. >> So, one of my all-time favorite of your. songs is Sway. >> Okay. >> From Sticky Fingers. And I always. wondered about the first line of that. song. Okay. with the lyrics which are. did you ever wake up to find a day wake. up to find. >> a day that broke up your mind. >> broke up your mind. >> destroyed your notion of circular time.

>> I have not [laughter]. have you. >> no there's a question. >> do you remember where that line came. from. >> no I just made it up at this moment I. was we were waiting for Keith to turn up. to the session he was late. >> and then Mick Taylor and I were there. and Charlie and Bill and we I said, "Oh, let me try this." And I was just making. up as I go along. >> So that's why it's a bit random. >> Yeah. But it makes sense that waiting. for Keith Richards would destroy your.

notion [laughter] of circular time. >> I thought maybe it was a more. philosophical question. >> You could you maybe I No, maybe I went. back afterwards and spruced it up a bit. [laughter]. >> Well, thank you for solving that mystery. for me. I appreciate it. So the the new. album. >> Yeah. So it's coming just maybe two and. a half years after Hackne Diamonds. >> We recorded it last last year now and um. we we did it last this time last year. more or less. >> And but the time span between Hackne. Diamonds and the previous album of.

original material 18 years. >> Yeah. 18 years. This is quick. >> Yeah. Why why did it come together so so. quickly? Well, I think we we I think we. realized that that we could um you know, we had a different method of making. records really. I mean, we we've been. just not being very lacadasical and we. not weren't really getting down to it. And so when we got Andy Watt on board, you know, we we decided that I said I. said we there's a deadline, you know, we.

used to always have deadlines because we. had to go on tour with the record. The. tour starts in March of the record out, you know. I said the Hackne Diamonds. I. said the the deadline is Valentine's. Day. Are you all going to remember that? So, you know, there's no excuses. It was. You thought it was March. It's. Valentine's Day. And we almost made it. over four weeks. We recorded probably, I. don't know, 14 15 songs. I mean, a lot. of stuff at uh the way I do things, uh. some of the songs that I write and then. I demo a lot of them first. So, I go in.

with uh um a friend of mine plays with a. band Matt Clifford. We we demo a lot of. the songs that I write. I demo them and. I can see ah they could go here, they. could go there, they could be this. groove, they could be that groove. The. and then you I so a lot of my version of. what I think the song sounds like is. already in my head. Everything else you. layer on top of that. And you might. Yeah. You might say that bass is great. on it. I don't want to change anything. Or I just want to change just the. chorus. Or I just want to change this.

Oh, I want to keep the rhythm guitar. Oh, I don't want to keep the rhythm. guitar. I'll do it again. you know, it's it's complex. >> So, some of the songs on on the new. album are I hear them as, you know, they're they're relationship songs, songs of of regret or or insecurity. And. it's it's interesting for me to hear MC. Jagger singing those songs at your age. and think about how, you know, they they. land differently than if you were.

singing them at at 42 or 32. And and I I. want to know from your perspective like. artistically and emotionally. what are the ways that you can inhabit a. song now that are different from how you. used to inhabit? >> Yeah, it's it it I I don't well first of. all I don't really think about it very. much. So you know in. song is about imagination and imag you. know it's not all based on true. experiences.

>> but you got to play the character of the. song. >> but the characters but the character. singing the song is I it's a different. character for me so when I'm singing Mr. charm. It's obviously a joke character, you know, um, and it's supposed to be. taken with a sense of humor. And of. course, some of the incidents in the. verses did happen. And [snorts] I can. draw on my own experiences of talking to. women in relationships. But I mean, the. whole thing of it's not supposed to be. taken seriously. You don't really think.

you're Mr. Charm, you know, not really. But then you might have another song. which is more. more heartfelt, you know, with more not. so much humor and um. >> back in your life. >> Back in your life, which is a bit more. of a kind of like it's a it's a classic. theme, you know, you meet a woman and. then. she never calls you back. You know, you. have a great time and she never calls. you back. Does. >> that happen to you a lot? Of. >> It's happened to me. Of course, it's.

happened to me. So, I can draw on that. I'm not saying happened yesterday, but. you can draw on that on that on that. experience when it did happen to you. when maybe it happened to me when I was. 40, you know, but I can still write. about it now. Writing's about. imagination, you know, it's not only. about personal experience. So, it's a. mixture of personal experience and a. mixture of imagination. >> You know, I'm I'm want to maybe put the. question in slightly different terms. You know, there's a a movie performance. of yours that I love when uh A Man from.

Ellesian Fields. >> Oh, yeah. Elizian Fields is an escort. service. We tend to the wounds of lonely. women in need of emotional as well as. spiritual solace. >> You know, you play sort of like a. middle-aged uh you know, he runs an an. escort service for women. It's kind of. like a but that performance has a lot of. real feelings of regret in it. And I. assume that you wouldn't have been able. to give a performance like that earlier. in your life in the in the in the same. way that it would make no sense for you.

to sing some girls now. >> No. Exactly. >> But so are are there things that you can. do in a song or did on this album that. you think, "Oh, I I wasn't capable of. giving of inhabiting that lyric.". >> That's a good question. I mean, it it. requires a lot of thought to give a good. answer because that's okay. That's why. we're here. you know, I can't really. it's hard for me to think of I'm trying. to think of actual concrete examples of. the songs on the record, you know. Um. >> I mean you.

mean I think quite a lot of it you could. say that that I wouldn't have done I. wouldn't have written any of these songs. when I was 30 maybe. I mean, honestly, I. probably wouldn't have done. And then and then I've also got into. this habit of doing songs that that are. about personal relationships and then I. throw a verse about politics in there. >> Yeah. you know, but I think that's a. trick, you know, that I that I've.

learned from other songwriters or I've. listened to others because nobody wants. to hear a whole song about politics. >> or I call it politics, social comment, you of any kind. It came in politics. something else [snorts]. like a song like um the blues song like. rough and twisted. It's really just like. just stream of consciousness honestly. It it it's you talk about woman. everything, but it's and then you throw. in this stuff. It's obviously about. political and it's obviously, you know,

the club was called conspiracy. You. know, all they wanted was tyranny. So, you find yourself using these tricks. >> Did you ever see the John Melany special. where the comedian John Melany where he. does a bit about working with you on. Saturday Night Live? Did you ever see. that? No, I never saw that. He he has. this bit where he's [clears throat]. >> talking about working with famous people. on the show and specifically about. working with you and people would ask. him I'm I'm paraphrasing but people. would ask him like is MC Jagger nice?

>> Yeah. >> You know and he says of course MC Jagger. is not nice [laughter] or he's nice for. the version of the life that MC Jagger. has led. And he's he points out that you. play to stadiums of people screaming for. you for 50 plus years. That's got to. change you as a person. If you do that. for 50 years, you're never again going. to be like, um, does anyone have a. laptop charger I could borrow? You know, >> can you articulate how that's changed. you as a person? I think, well, obviously.

you it's not normal way to mo It's not. like most people's lives. >> No, no, it's not. >> It's not. >> But but [clears throat and snorts] yeah, it does affect you. um you can become. disassociated. um from other people. >> Other people and you and a lot of people. in show business only hang around with. people in show business. Um. >> uh because because they got something in. common, you know, they because they can. relate to each other, you know, and and.

and. that you get disassociated from what. what people might call real life. >> Do you think you have. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, >> definitely. Definitely. And then you can. uh I mean you you you can fight you do. fight against it. It's a conscious. effort. It it takes conscious effort to. be fight against um being disassociated. >> What do you do to fight against it? >> Well, it's quite easy really. I mean you. just you just you just go out and walk.

on the street on your own and go do. normal things and go and buy the New. York Times. [laughter]. you know, and but nevertheless, that. that's only temporary. So, cuz your I. think your psychologically your your. actual state of mind is is permanently. damaged by this or or affected or I. mean, [snorts] I think I think when. you're in your uh late 20s and early 30s.

is a very tough time for people in this. business because you because it's a big. ego trip basically. I mean. [clears throat] there's a huge you you. have to have a huge ego to do this. If. you don't you have you lots of people. that do this that don't have huge egos. have huge problems because they have to. manufacture a completely different. course my personality on stage is not my. I have a friend who who says you know. the standing joke is that I behave at a. dinner party like I behave on stage. So.

>> well is that friend right? the other. way. We make jokes about it, you know, because it's absurd what you do on. stage. I mean, of course, I'm not really. like my stage persona, a Jimmy Fallon, which I'm just about to go and do. He he. thinks he's doing me when he does me, but it's it's completely such a an. exaggerated version of me, but it works. for him, you know, his version of me. Hey, why don't you go out and do the. rooster not. [cheering].

>> but I mean to me the person to be like. that all the time this overbearing. shouting per ego tripping person it's. like it's of course you're not really. like that but I think when you're in. your late 20s and early 30s you you can. be like that all the time and there are. people in show businesses that never. switch off. A lot of them are comedians. and comedians sometimes they can't they. can't switch off. They can't stop making. jokes or or they get depressed.

[laughter]. But I mean it's a bit of a sweeping. statement. >> Did you have to learn to switch off? >> Yeah. I think it it comes with age. It's. like if you do a movie, you do a. character, right? So So if you're a. method actor and you do this character, you've heard all these stories about. method actors. They they take it to the. absolute extreme. So they like the. character all the time and then after. the movie is over they're still in the. character for a long time. It takes. takes a long time to laugh off the.

character. So which character do you go. back to? >> What what's the character that you're. going to retrieve? Is he is he always. going to carry some of that character in. his true character? Whatever that is. [snorts]. So this is this is I think the show. business like dichotomy and it's like a. it's something you learn to live with. and you you always hope of course it. isn't true that you always hope that. you're a normal so-called normal person.

underneath. >> Yeah. It's nice to have the perks. though. The perks. >> Yeah. But it's not about [laughter] the. perks. It's about being these several. characters. >> You know, you're the character that. plays the theater. You're the character. that does the interview. You're the. character that goes in on the stadium. You're the character in the recording. studio. You're the character writing the. song, not this character. I write now. I'll be another character. Yeah, I'll. write a song, then I'm going to be this. character and I got wounded love. Now. I'm going to be like, you. You.

know, it's. >> Do you ever let the world see the person. underneath the characters? >> I'm not sure. Probably it's all there. Songs are pretty direct in a way um as a. as a method of communication. They're. relatively direct compared to say a. movie where you need like a lot of, you. know, you've got someone writing a. script and you're changing the script. and you got to change your lines and you. got 200 people and then and then it's. all edited in chopped up in bits. >> Records are relatively simple compared.

to that. >> There there are a handful of political. lines sprinkled throughout the album. There's uh you know you saying about. scuttling billionaires scrambling to. their bolt holes in the sky about dirty. rat autocrats rubber stamping judges. Yes. >> Um and I actually find it uh heartening. to to know that Mick Jagger sees the. same problems out in the world than that. the rest of us do. So can can you just. tell me more about um sort of why you.

felt the impulse to include those kinds. of lyrics? What are you seeing when you. look around the world? Well, I mean, I've it's not the first time I've done. songs with social comment. >> I like doing it, but in small doses. Let's put it like that. I mean, who does. it in huge doses? Hardly anybody in pop. It's pop music, you know? I mean, Ringing Hollow is more or less. >> Yes. >> completely social comment, >> right? So, but but even then, so I had. to I had two songs that were on more or.

less the same subject, which is my love. of America, you know, >> and what's gone wrong as a country. It's. a lament about. >> Yeah, it's a lament, but it's a love. song, but it's it's a lament. And it's. my my it's about and all it's about my. own experiences which are long and and. varied and and encompass lots of. different places in America and not just. being in New York and being in living in. the Upper West Side. You know that you. know I've got I've spent a lot of time.

in America in places that Americans have. never ever been nor were likely to go to. you [snorts] know because they don't not. in our world living in New York. Well, we're talking at we're talking now. living in LA or Chicago, but I spend a. lot of time in these weird places and. like what you know just on tour you see. everything. You see everything you you. know how many people from New York you. know that we sit around really go to. Cleveland very often you know and then. you're there for 5 days it's not very.

long but you you can see quite a lot if. you go out every day you see different. sides of it. No, I'm not I'm not saying. I mean I enjoy it, you know, other women. go out. [snorts] Um I mean New Orleans. people I know people go to New Orleans. and is a tourist place, but I mean you. find things there and then you you you. find fantastic music scene. It's a a. unique town of in the United States. completely unique um not like any other. town. It's not it's not you know so you.

explore these places and you have a love. of the country and everything. So in. Ring Hollow so. I had another song but the other song I. thought was too down and I I rejected it. and worked on Ring Hollow instead. So so. it's really a love song to America was. you know. fell madly in love with you before we. ever met. before I ever went to America, I was in love with America like a lot of. European uh teenagers, you know, were,

you know, see the movies and all this. So, it's all about that. And then, so. then it talks about, you know, then then. it goes into the America of now and, you. know, how can we, you know, ascetain. what's going on? >> What's the last the last line line of. the song? Right. >> I can't remember. I'm going to buy a. brand new hat. >> Brand [laughter] new hat. What's that a. reference to? >> I heard something good is going to. happen. I think that's what it means. >> Yeah. Uh uh I heard that as as like a a.

passive aggressive man. >> Maybe. Yeah. >> Maybe. Well, you know who the one person. that you that is named uh by. their actual name on the album? I might. be missing one. Do you know the one? >> There's one one uh Elon Musk. >> Elon Musk. Yeah. Mad mogul. >> Mr. Musk. >> Yeah. What's your impression of him? I've never met him so I don't really. >> I mean he's obviously hugely successful. >> and you know he's someone who who the.

term rockstar gets applied to sometimes. and now it's become kind of a common. trope where these tech. >> uh entrepreneurs are called you know. rock stars and. >> what does an actual rockstar think of. the way that that term has now become. applied to anybody who has sort of the. patina of. >> this kind of because it's applied to all. kinds of people, not just tech people. It's become a phrase that's thrown. around for. >> any [snorts] any in any form of success,

you know, that or. >> it just I think it just means that. you're just out there and you know in. front of thousands of people and you're. a huge success. I mean that's what it. means. I mean to be called that. I think. it's a big compliment to be called that. It's also a compliment to rock stars to. use that actual phrase. >> I think it devalues rock star. [laughter] It devalues it, but it also. it bigs it up as well, you know. >> Yeah. >> So, yeah. >> Wait, I I want to ask something that's. uh sort of related to um kind of what.

you were talking what we were talking. about earlier, the the how people. understand like the persona of of MC. Jagger. And and my question is to do. with sort of how you understand your. relationship with your audience. This. actually maybe speaks to the politics. stuff in a in a way too because and let. me give two counter examples to sort of. triangulate the question. So so on one. poll we have somebody like Bob Dylan. where if you go see him live he's great.

It almost feels like the crowd is. incidental like he he's going to be. doing whatever he's doing whether or not. people showed up or or not. On the other. end of the spectrum, you have somebody. like a Bruce Springsteen who who clearly. sees his job as engaging in a meaningful. back and forth. Yes. >> With with his audience. It means. something different to him. >> What does your relationship to the. audience mean to you? What do they. represent. >> all those people out there?

>> Well, it Well, first of all, it depends. where you are and [clears throat] what. kind of event it is. like the the the. one the New Orleans event. That's a. festival. They didn't come to see you. necessarily. You know, they they they. bought their tickets before they knew. you were coming, >> right? If you play the New Orleans Jazz. Festival, >> you know, we we played that then we do. Summer in the Park in London. You buy. those tickets. You Glastonbury. You buy. those tickets because you like that. festival. You always think something's.

good going to happen, but you don't. know. So, they're not necessarily. coming to see they're not your biggest. fans necessarily. I'm not saying they. they hate you otherwise it probably. wouldn't be there. There's different. levels of these kind of people and you. have to treat them in a slightly. different way. I mean my the bottom line. of my thing is really is that I. my my job in in the live music world is. is. just those people that come is to h have.

the best time they possibly can. and and. for 2 hours or whatever it is to forget. all their problems and the problems of. the world and their mortgages and their. whatever and and and and if they have. bronze or just just to give them they. can have just the best time. It's it's. similar going to a sports event really. because you you you you everything else. is shout out. You're just watching that. who's going to win. You know, you're not. worrying about everything else. You.

know, you those things are out of your. mind. I know you're still on that you're. on the phone everything when you know oh. my your oh little Danny has like hurt. his tooth but you know I know you can. still have that [laughter]. but I know you can still have that but. in the old days you never had that. really so so uh so that's my job so is. to make them have the best time they. possibly haven't and some auditions want. to go completely nuts you know and and.

you so then you encourage them to go. more nuts and say you can play to some. places in the world it's different you. know you play in Finland it's not the. same as playing in Argentina you know. it's a different they don't they don't. want to go completely so nuts may well. maybe they do I'm just using as. possibles. >> but so you you don't want to be trying. to churn them up into like get. frustrated that they're not being. demonstrative or you don't think they're. having a good time because they might be. quite relatively calm they might be.

relatively. you know, they they're having a good. time, but in their I always say to. everyone else, they're having a good. time in their own way, [laughter]. but as you go to another place and. they're going completely apeshit, you. know. So, so and your job is to make. them more apeshit. That's they want to. go ape but let's go apehit, you. know. So, I want to dig a little deeper. on that question. Yeah. So you're you're. you're talking about what your job is in. those events is to make people have a. good time to make to you know they want. to leave the concert feeling like it was.

worth it and they could forget their. troubles. >> and you don't want to lecture them. >> You don't want to lecture them. Um but. my question is actually about whether. like what meaning the job has to you. Like I I have a job that has a basic. description. and it's very different. than yours, >> but my job actually, you know, it means. something to me. And and when it's. working best, it allows me to. >> uh satisfy curiosity I have about the. world, meet people I wouldn't normally. meet, ask questions of people that I. would never get a chance to ask, and and. learn things that help, you know, that.

that I find are valuable to me as a. person. Do do you like what's Mick. Jagger's version of that? Am I being. naive and uh polyianaish to think that. maybe there is one? [snorts]. >> I have thought about this. I mean. obviously thought about it at the. beginning of my career of course didn't. think about it at all. I was just. learning how to do what you know it's. totally your about you you know and the. band and are they going to you know. what's the next number and are they. going to play it right and am I going to.

remember the words you know it's like. it's just the basics you're getting the. basics down. Okay. And now after you've. got through that accomplishment, which. takes a bit of time to do, but [snorts]. then what you're saying is when I get. out there, >> what does it what does it mean? >> What does it all mean for you? For you. >> Yeah. Well, it it Well, it's a lot of. joy for me. First of all, >> first of all, it's a huge buzz, you. know, adrenaline. It it's a huge adrenaline buzz, which.

must be the same as for a sport. If you. play sport, if you play a football team, you go play 50,000 people, must be about. the same similar buzz. So, so I mean, you know, I don't have anyone coming at. me. So, it's much easier than playing. around. >> I don't have to do I don't have to do. any of that. But, but that's where the. analogy breaks down. [snorts] So, so you. get out there and you get when you get. out there first, you get this massive. adrenaline buzz and then your job really.

is really you have to control that. adrenaline buzz. you know, you've got to. look after yourself first. And while. you're doing that first five minutes, then you're evaluating the audience. So, you you evaluate them, [clears throat]. you know, in a good way. I mean, but. you're evaluating them how they Yeah. What's the temperature of the crowd? How. are they feeling? Are they is it cold? You know, is it raining? All these. things happen. >> [snorts]. >> uh uh and you know do they are they.

already enjoying themselves or they feel. a bit listless? Have they wait too long? Have they had a hard time getting you. know all these things of contributing. factors and allow so so then you you. evaluate the audience and see how they. feel. Yeah. And then a lot of them are. very long way away. which is one of the problems if you're. playing cuz mostly I play stadiums right. if you're playing a theater you don't. have these problems you know you can you. can you you if you're playing a theater.

you can very quickly become a group you. know and people when I was you know. starting out would showed me how to do. that were like little Richard I toured. with for a long time um he I had no idea. that people even could do what he did. You know, performers didn't do that. They just went out and played their. songs and kind of said hello and that. was it. I mean, [snorts] he he was. embracing them all, getting them all to, you know, go along with his version of.

the world, stand up, sit down and make. jokes and and it becomes a community, you know. So, for a small time, it. becomes this community. So, it's much. more difficult to do that in a stadium. You still have to do it. So, that's why. stages have to be big. That's why you. have to get down there. That's why you. have to pay attention to all these. people and [snorts]. that's why you have to talk to them cuz. you want that community for those couple. of hours to be a good community. Have. fun. That's your job. I mean, I'm not.

not completely answering your question, but I mean that's that's a lot of what I. do. you know, I've I've read. uh a huge amount of interviews with you. going back, you know, dec [laughter]. they're they're interesting there, but. there are some things that stand out and. and one thing that I've noticed that you. almost never do in interviews is tell. stories about being in the Rolling. Stones and and I'm not asking you to,

you know, uh be nostalgic or or share. some intimate details, but like there's. got to be some. >> like old, you know, chestnut that that. you break out at cocktail parties or. that your kids if they ask you like, "Hey, what was it? What was it like uh. being on tour with Stevie Wonder in 1972. or whatever that you that like a break. glass in case of emergency kind of story. that you can tell?" Is there is there. one just something here's a funny thing. that happened when I was in the ro? >> You mentioned Stevie Wonders. So, >> I shouldn't have. >> You mentioned Stevie Wonder. So, we were.

playing at Mass Garden with Stevie. Wonder. So we said come up and we'll. play we'll do a we'll do a mashup of. satisfaction and uptight. and uh so because they're both the same. beat. So um so so he comes on the stage. and we do this mash up time and then. someone and I can't remember whose idea. it might be mine. Um decides that we're. going to throw custard pies at the end. cuz it's the it's the last date of the.

tour and it's the last number of the. show. Why wouldn't you throw custard. pies? It's rather unfair for Stevie. So. be so it. Throw everyone's throwing. c including Stevie. He's throwing. custard pies in there. Everyone's ends. in covered in custard pies and I loved. it. >> All [laughter] right, there you go. Thank you very much for taking the time. to speak with me. I I appreciate it. >> Thanks so much for for everything. All. your questions are [music] interesting. >> On the interview, we talked to our guest. twice. A few weeks later, I spoke with.

Mick Jagger again about whether the. Rolling Stones will ever go on tour. again and what, if anything, is good. about getting older. Mick, we're officially rolling now. >> Okay. So, what are we going to speak. about today that we didn't speak about. before? >> Oh, there's so much there's so many. things, but I'd like to start in with a. question about something that just came. to me this morning. So, I was [laughter]. I was watching um just clips of you on. YouTube, and there's a great it's like a.

50-second clip of you, maybe it's. backstage. It's just you at a keyboard. trying to work through uh your the tune. Shine a Light. Um and you're trying to. remember the chords and it's it's. actually just this it's a really. beautiful short clip because you're. playing those gospel chords. There's. like to paraphrase the song, there's a. little uh gleam right in your eye. Okay. [music]. [singing]. >> And it it feels like the apparatus of.

like fame and and a crowd or any of like. that has anything like that has fallen. away. Just a musician. >> playing music and and and loving it and. it's really very pure and and sweet. And. I thought if I wondered, can you share a. moment or a memory of just when you were. playing music and kind of the the. machinery around the Rolling Stones just. fell away and and you just had that love. and freedom and lost yourself just. playing playing a tune. >> That would that's what you do when. you're writing. I mean, the occasion.

that you describe, I don't really. remember, but [snorts]. uh you said it was backstage, so that's. a different thing. you're obviously. getting ready for a show and and trying. to I don't know what I was doing. Um I. was probably going to do that song, but. maybe I wasn't. Maybe I was just. doodling with that song, you know, for. fun. And then when you while you're. waiting to go on stage, sometimes. sometimes you I always have a piano in. the room and a guitar and stuff and and. my room's always the quietest.

cuz I I don't let people in like a load. of friends and families. I know they can. come in but it's like then you have to. leave you know what I mean and so yeah. so you can like you have moments where. you just doodle around you know what. you're describing really is when you're. writing I mean you don't you're not. thinking about going on stage or. anything if you're at home or in a. studio or in a writing studio or. somewhere writing then you're just. doodling.

that's how songs get made you know. really is just where you just doodle. around and you don't you're not thinking. about anything else. So the thing about. writing songs is because popular songs. are really quite. um I mean they're obviously really short. so. which is due to the length of the 78. record [laughter] creation arbitrary. reason. Yeah the technology imposed this thing. on it. I think that's anyway it doesn't.

really matter that's what it is you know. it's 3 minutes 4 minutes maximum. something like this so so it's not going. to be that much uh and and it can be. quite complex musically but lyrically. how much lyrics are you going to really. stick in so musically it's it you know. you can just doodle your doodle your way. through this so while your mind is free. and you're having fun with it then And I.

think that's the most interesting. part of the process. And and I think I. think having having fun is not like I. don't mean you're all standing around. drinking and like shouting and jumping. up and down, but I mean your mind is not. really being serious. It's it's playful. Playful is a better word than fun. So. you can be playful and [snorts] then So. if you're playful, you can you can just. let your mind just go this way, that. way. If not, and don't be worried if not.

if nothing happens, nothing happens. Something will happen later or tomorrow. >> I um saw was watching the video for um. In the Stars recently, which is the one. where they use the Ding technology for. you guys, and I actually thought it was. sort of an um. >> like a conceptually interesting choice. for a variety of reasons. One of which. is that, you know, I I think of one of. the sort of lifeaffirming things about. the Rolling Stones is that you you've. been sort of defiant in terms of like.

what aging means. You know, you're still. out there doing it and then doing the. deaging. I was like, that's kind of an. an interesting um uh uh choice to take. But, you know, I think the an an. opposite view of of the band as being. like defiant uh defying aging and and. still being out there is that, you know, you guys all have Peter Pan complexes or. something like that. [laughter]. >> But but for but I want to know what you. find like interesting or or hard to to.

reckon with in terms of aging or like. what's what's good about getting older? What's less good? And I I don't just. mean like I don't just mean physically, but metaphysically, too. There's nothing good about it. >> Nothing. >> No. >> wisdom. No, >> nothing. You don't get wisdom. You. forget everything. [laughter] Forgot all. my wisdom. I might have had couple of pearls. dropped, but but I think I probably. forgotten what they are. No. So, no, it's not No, it's not particularly um.

>> um pleasant. And uh of course, you can't. do things as quickly as you want to and. all that sort of thing. And uh. physically physically you can't do. things that you would like to do. You. got to be you have to be more careful. I. you can still do them but you have to be. [laughter] bit more careful when you do. them. You know when if you're playing. goalie in the football team and and you. you okay you're going go put you in goal. a lot. [laughter].

>> I'm not really very good at it. >> It's a metaphor for aging being put in. goal. >> You put in goal. Yeah. [laughter]. >> Um, I have another philosophical. question. >> Yeah. >> And this one is about sex. And I'm not. going to Don't worry. >> subject. >> It's a big subject. I'm not going to ask. you for any details. So don't don't. worry. It's a it is sort of so so you're. you're. >> you know, you're you have publicly been. identified with sex for a long time, like a sex symbol. You write songs that.

are heavily sexual. You know, you're. like an an avatar of sexiness. You know, I don't think I'm I'm speaking out of. turn by saying. >> drugs and rock and roll were going, >> right? You you have a you know, a. reputation as sort of a a libertine. maybe and and but that's outside. perspective. But I wouldn't be surprised. if you know you also have had like sort. of a put sex as like central to your. identity over the years and I wonder how. has your thinking about sex changed over.

time because it changes for everyone. So, how has it changed for you, Mick. Jagger? >> Well, it's really difficult and I don't. know the answer, honestly. It's it it's. a very good question and people always. say that when they're thinking about. what the am I going to say to him. [laughter] Uh but but but but. I don't really know. I really don't know. the answer. I'd have to re you know, you. you ask me these questions that it's a. really hard question and and I don't. know the answer. I could if we sat down.

and we weren't recording this and we. weren't doing an interview, we could. talk about how that would work and you'd. have to tell me how it worked for you. because we could compare experiences. But, you know, >> could we? [laughter]. >> But yeah, probably because. [clears throat] that's how you get. insights, you know. I mean, if you're. just talking about yourself like a. public person, it's weird. Um the only. thing I will say is that that that. through your throughout your life your. attitude to sex changes and your sexual.

taste change in in one's life. Sex is. not a fixed point. So that's what I. think obviously everybody's different. but I would like care I would say and. I'm not this is not my sort of uh area. of expertise honestly. because we're into areas of of human. psychology. sexual drive uh all this stuff is all.

pop psychology people everyone's read a. bit about it but do they know about it. but my observation is that that you that. your attitudes to sex are different as. you. as in different parts of your life. >> Yeah. >> I mean your orientation your sexual. orientation may change it. It may change. completely or it may change. Oh, or or. or avenues might open up to you that you. hadn't realized or they or you or or you.

might close avenues that have opened up. because you don't like them or you tried. something that you like for a couple of. years and then you decide, oh, and and it's like other tastes. It's. like taste in art, you know, that you. when [snorts] you're very young, you. might like these kind of pictures and. then when you're a bit older, you might. change your taste in art. So, I'm not. saying sex is like art. Well, I am. What. I'm saying is your but but that's a. question of taste, but your why is your.

taste changed? You know what, right? >> There's something is it because of. knowledge or is it just because you're. bored with it, you know? Do you know or. is it a combination of all these things? You know, so your your taste in your. literally taste in food changed. So when. you're really young and you like. alcohol, you drink sweet things. normally. You know, when you you like. sweet wine, oh that's like great. And. then then someone tells you that's not. really you shouldn't be drinking that. You know, you should drink this. And you.

try that. I really don't like that. I'll. try it. You know, like when we were. really teenage, when we were teenagers, we like rock music, but we other other. more snobbish people say, "You should. listen to this j you should listen to. this jazz, you know, you listen to jazz, you know, it's more intellectual, you. know, than so, so that in Tom Stopard's play, the real. thing, he's he's an intellectual writer. is almost Tom and but he's going on this.

program called Desert Island Disc This. is a a program where you choose records. to take with you on your desert island. and that's all you that's the only music. you can have. And he he says but all I. like is like to do Ron Ron and he's he's. an intellectual. So he says they expect. me to do Shernburg and Beethovven and. [laughter]. and so so. he's an intellectual. So it's it's this. thing of being an intellectual. So you. say like but yeah pay me that jazz music. you know. Okay, Disney Gillespie. Play.

me Disney Gillespie. Okay, do I really. like that or do I like Chuck Barry? You. know what I mean? It's like, [snorts]. >> well, I I'll start to appreciate it, you. know? And we used to like play the. modern jazz quartet, you know? >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. I I used to go and see the I used. to go and see the J modern jazz quartet. in concert. I mean, it's expensive. Everyone's sitting down very seriously. listening to it. The no is like standing. up, you know. [snorts]. [laughter]. is. >> talk about a rabbit hole. I asked you. about sex. We ended up at the modern.

jazz. >> court. How do I get out of that. question? >> But I thought you gave a very, you know, I thought you gave a good answer. You. said you didn't know how to answer, then. you gave a good answer. I want to also know a little bit more. about sort of how you see your musical. evolution because I think I think it's. fair to say that you know probably in. that sort of magical period between 68. and 72 is the period when sort of what. people expect a Rolling Stones album to. sound like kind of got solidified. And.

and the new album, people say, you know, this it sounds like a Stones album, and. I think they mean it sort of has the. signifiers of the the classic Stones. album. And I know there's been lots of. experimenting with, you know, reggae, funk, disco over the years, but I I. think it's it's true that there is a. Rolling Stones. >> sound. And as a as a sort of a creative, >> I can I can kind of argue against that. in a way if I want to. >> What What argument would you make? Well, >> I'm going to tell you that you're wrong, but [laughter].

>> No, but I can take another position, you. know. >> Okay. >> I mean, just for the sake of it, I could. music because if we're talking about. musicality, that that's what you're best. known for. You know, that what the most. people if they are not particularly. vaguely interested but not very. interested, um, then you're absolutely. right. You know, that that's what you. would say. But I could point out to lots. of other I'm not a huge student of the. Rolling Stones over you know I mean I.

can't I haven't got it all at my. fingertips and lists of it. If I did I. could point at them and say you see I. could point to like. >> miss you. >> so many Yeah. I could say well that was. >> hot stuff. >> That was that. Yeah. But then I could. point at Lady Jane, you know, >> right? Like an Elis Elizabeth. >> Yeah. And I could point to his tears go. by. I could point to Angie. >> Yeah. I could point I I mean that I. could point to Painted Black, you know, even like Under my Thumb that someone.

played to me the other day. I mean, it's. got it's vocally it's very me, but. instrumentally and the way it's played. is so light and it's so it's so sort of. like it's not heavy at all. everyone's. playing really lightly and so there's. other versions of the band and that's. what I think makes the band an. interesting band. Obviously it's not the. same people either. [snorts]. >> Um you know she smiles sweetly is. another one from. >> Yeah. very old but but you know it's. interesting that the songs that you.

noted are all songs that came be before. I guess with the exception of Angie. before that period I I suggested. >> Yes. But even after that period I can. point out other ones. >> Yeah. But it's just I don't remember. them as well, you know. But there's. there's and there's not Elizabeth and. ones, but there's there's many other. ones. And you said Angie, that's not in. that period. And there's lots and lots. of others, you know, waiting on a. friend. It's a it's a kind of rumba, you. know, ballad rumba. I mean, it's it's. it's, you know, it's like and very light.

with an alto saxophone lead. It's not. really what you would expect. But are. are there are there styles of music that. just you know you maybe wanted to do or. sort of like dream projects that you had. in the back of your mind that you. thought sort of because of maybe. audience expectations or what you. thought the band would be interested in. that you didn't pursue? >> Yeah. that well yes but you you can. pursue them but you but you don't take.

them to the kind of doing a whole album. of them you know but it you know I can. say I like sambar music so I did. sympathy for the devil have another. never done another sambar but I listen. to sambber all the time so I could say. well I mean but no one's interested in. me doing a whole sambar record I can't. imagine anyone being interested I mean. I'd like to do another sambar tune but. but you don't want to pursue your whole. interest in sambar uh down so far down. the road. I mean, I'm interested. I I. mean, I love Latin music of all kinds.

and and I that rhythmically speaking, there's so many different rhythms and. and yeah, I' I I would like to pursue. that and maybe I could have or should. have pursued that more because I I'm. really interested in those rhythms, you. know? So, so yeah. So, but if you're in. a rock band, you get to touch on them, but you don't get to fully explore them. Um, there's a beautiful version you did. of a long black veil with the Chieftains. probably 30 years ago and I thought,

"Oh, it would have been it would be. great to hear a MC Jagger album of like. traditional uh Irish, British, and. American folk tunes.". >> Yeah. I mean I've I've done that and uh. I I mean the thing is that the all the. members of the band of Keith and Brian. and. to some extent all like that music Ronny. also [snorts] I mean we it's kind of our. kind of in a way it's our home music you.

know and even though the sort of 80% of. our music is influenced by black culture. which we have a huge debt to owe to to. black music and everything. Uh. we we also acknowledge our own roots in. that in that other music you know by. playing those songs you know I mean long. back veil I long back veil was I think I. heard Johnny Cash do that first but it. sounds like an Irish or English song and.

I did it with the Chiefs which is an. Irish was an Irish band but it's it's. you know it it could be an English song. or border ballad or you that I was we. were all very interested. We're all. brought up to read border ballads which. are neither English nor Scottish nor. Irish, but it's it they're there are. amalgam of all of those things are very. very similar background. I I'd also like. to ask you about rock a little more.

[clears throat] broadly and and. generally. You know, it's this it's this. music that you've given your creative. life to. And you know, the the still in. 2026, the biggest rock concert draws are. like Gen Gen X bands and Baby Boomer. bands. And I've seen data that actually. suggest that catalog music, you know, older music has more streaming market. share than younger and contin trend that. way. And I think that even if you think. about, you know, like the buzziest.

younger rock band of today, right, which. is a band like Geese, I don't know if. you're familiar with them, but. >> there even even a band like that still. kind of feels like a, you know, culturally marginal band to a certain. extent. And and so my question to you is. >> what do you mean culturally marginal? >> You know they're not in the center of. the culture like you know it's they. don't have. >> well no but g I mean I was talked about. them in an interview someone asked me I. I. >> everyone was talking about this band and. I when I played them I thought it was.

going to be more like an indie band you. know but it it was much more. experimental than I thought which I. thought was great you know I mean I. liked it but it wasn't what I thought. when what from people describing it to. me or reading about it. So yeah, so. that's very hard for a band as e. experimental as that to be. >> to break through. >> be you know in a in a in a center of a. mainstream music I think at this any. time. I mean maybe in the 1970 it might.

have been but but now [snorts]. I wouldn't have thought so but anyway I. I mean maybe there will be maybe I'm. wrong. Do you have thoughts about the. vitality of of rock music as a whole or. its place in the culture right now given. that the most popular exponents tend to. be older artists? It's kind of. >> unusual. I think but despite the fact. that you know um. uh rock music as a as a as a genre is. not really.

the. mainstream center of music. It still has. a lot of supporters and it still has a. lot of young teenage people that want to. play it, you know, in, you know, in all. kinds of forms of it, you know, and you. hope that it evolves, you know. Rap was. kind of the center of our music like 20. years ago and now it's like rap is not. the force it once was really, but. everyone incorporates it, you know, you. incorporate it into everything.

It's it's one of the strands of popular. music like rock is like you know rap is. like straight pop is like all these. things. So we have all these strands in. popular music [snorts] um that really. I I wonder you know it's really rather. artificial. a lot of times when we describe music. I. didn't we touched on this before in our. earlier conversation. So it's it it it's. a marketable.

when you have to market things you you. want to tell people what they are you. know so that so this this is mint. flavored okay so everyone normally likes. that you know so it's mint flavored ice. cream it's mint flavored this it's mint. so you put the genre mint I'm selling. mint flavored products it's a bit like. that music so that you. >> so people know what they're getting and. you. >> they know what they're getting you So. you don't want to scare them. That's so. we've got cut up all our genres in like.

little slices. But the reality is that. most musicians appreciate all kinds of. music. So what I'm saying is is there's. a lot of music has a lot of history and. it shouldn't really be be by intelligent. people shouldn't be slicing in little. bits and say I only like this bit. You. know I like folk music. What does that. mean? Doesn't mean anything. What's folk. music? All these invented things, you. know, >> right? They're arbitrary distinctions. >> They are.

>> Yeah. Uh I saw a quote from Keith the. other day saying, you know, the band had. probably um is probably not going to be. able to do long tours anymore. That. there might be, you know, there's hopes. to do residencies and things like that. And who I don't know how you think, but. do do you you must have some doubt about. whether or not the Rolling Stones will. ever go on a. >> class. I have doubt about it when when I. hear that, you know, I I have doubt. about it. I don't mind doing at all. I.

mean, residencies. are if you can't if you could you can't. do any shows and you can't go anywhere, then you [snorts] have to do residences. Obviously, you can't go you got to go to. the you have to go to the arena. [laughter]. You got you're not going to do it from. your bedroom, but I suppose you could, but you've got to go somewhere. So I say. well you you can't just do so if Harry. Styles says he's doing residences but. he's doing London Amsterdam you know and.

so on and so is a tour you know it's not. only London do you know what I mean you. >> but do you think the Stones will do. another you know world so that's all I'm. saying I would hope so I'm I'm very. pleased to be able to I want to do it. I'm I'm I'm up for doing it I like. touring so but [snorts] the thing is the. only thing about doing residences it. makes it for the people that want to. come and see you. It makes it much more. expensive. It really does. I mean, think. about it. You have to you have to. travel. You have to get a hotel and you. have to buy a ticket, which is not going.

to be cheap, you know. So, that I mean, it'll be less. cheap. It'll be cheaper than the World. Cup. [laughter]. in the United States. It was much easier. when it was in Germany cuz Germany is a. smaller country. Do you think Do you think you'll know. when you've walked off the stage with. the Rolling Stones for the last time? >> No. >> No. >> I don't think you'll ever know. [snorts]. Maybe I have. [laughter]. >> It's true. Maybe it's happened. >> I don't know. You never know. You could.

be I get run over by a bus outside of my. house. You never really know, do you? You don't know what's going to happen to. you in life. Um, but I mean, I. personally hope to to be able to tour. again. I I love touring. I like going. places, you know. I like meeting people. I like to go into I like to go to weird. countries, you know, and do shows. I was. I was doing a promotion with Indonesia. and that I did a show in Indonesia once. on my own which was so crazy. It was so. hot. It was unbelievable. People about.

Europe's heat wave. It was so hot and I. was out there and it was daytime. Didn't. have any lights. I What am I going to. wear? And this guy reminded me of my. show in Indonesia. And I said, "Yeah, I'd do a show in Indonesia." that you. know it's I it's really I love doing. that. I love going to India and we one. we did two shows in India you know now. India is a big market. >> can I ask you a completely tangential. random question um I was looking and now.

so the fact that I couldn't find it. doesn't mean it doesn't exist but I. could not find any quote or record of. you commenting on singing backing vocals. on Carly Simons you're so vain no I. can't find it anywhere and I but. >> you say I remember doing it. >> but Did when did you realize that some. people thought the song was about you? >> Why would it be about me when I'm. singing on it? >> I know it doesn't make sense, but people. people think that's what it was. >> But that was a big thing, wasn't it? You.

know, because she would never reveal who. it was about. And then she. >> I never thought to ask. Yeah. I never. thought I was just a song. It sounds. like a good title. It was just a song. I'm just the backing vocalist cuz I knew. the producer whose name I'm now going to. forget. >> Richard Perry. Oh, there you go. Yep. >> Richard Perry and was a guy I knew, you. know, and he he was in London. He just. phoned me up and said, "Can you can do. the background?" Because I and I love. doing those sort of things, especially. with, you know, if it's a female, you're. the male person, you know what I mean?

It's slightly different doing it with. men, but I don't care. So, I just went. along and did it. I thought it was a. great song, you know, and uh it was big. hit for her. And I was never created to. be the feature. These days I it'd be the. feature, you know, be Carly Simon. featuring Mit Jang in those. >> But you never said to her, you never. said, "Who's this about?". >> I'm louder than her on some of it. >> I know. In the chorus. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [gasps]. >> Um [clears throat]. Well, thank you for clearing that up. Now, we've now added to the sum total.

>> We want to clear things up, while we're. talking about cleaning things up. So, so. I said to you at the beginning before we. record, I said, "Well, now the record's. been reviewed everywhere. A lot of. reviews for it." And I got luri lots of. nice reviews. It's It's weird how people. though in they give you really I mean we. it got it's gotten some great reviews. and I'm really appreciative of that. >> Something's nagging at you. No, no, I'm. not. It's not nagging. It's just that. people then they hear some one word and. they and but they don't really listen to.

the line. So it's like so MC Jagger has. a go at Elon Musk. Well, you're not. listening to the line. [snorts]. >> You're only listening to Musk. That's. all you hear. Musk. He must be having a. go at him. You I do call him mad. >> And he's the one person you name in on. the whole album. No other person. >> He's name checked. The only name. >> It seems like it would have some. importance. But the funny thing is when. I wrote that I was like.

it was I was thinking that he because of. him they were able to get those. astronauts back you know that was stuck. because he provided the transportation. cuz we NASA couldn't provide the the. transportation. So that line the the. line of the song is about when I was a. kid I we used to want to go to Mars and. everything and then and then I said who. would trust who would you trust to get. you into space and would you trust.

Boeing or was it NASA or was it Mad. Mogul Mr. Musk? So what I'm it's really. a sidewinding compliment because he was. the one that I remembered was able to do. that when the others couldn't. >> Yeah. Well that's what you get for using. the adjective mad. That's. >> well and mogul. >> And mogul. >> Mogul. Mogul doesn't always go down well. either. You. >> No one likes a mogul. >> No one likes a mogul. He's It's a It's a. Persian word, but you know, nobody likes. to be called it. >> You know, I had asked you about the.

lyrics to Sway when we spoke the first. time. I have another lyric question that. I want to ask you. Um, my favorite. Rolling Stone song, which I think is. also the best Rolling Stone song, is You. Can't Always Get What You Want. >> Yeah. And I think I think you know it's. a simple sentiment but I actually think. there's something profound in the chorus. right which is you can't always get what. you want but if you try sometimes you. just might find you get what you need. and and what's what's something that or. the last thing that you really tried to.

get that you wanted to get that you. couldn't find. >> and you got what you need. >> leads to leads to a personal leads to a. personal wish. [laughter]. Sure. >> No, I think I I. uh I I can't recall one that stands out. honestly. >> Well, that's a good life, my friend. >> I mean, I'm sorry. >> No, it's I mean I obviously there's all. kinds of things on daily life that you.

everyone's has frustrations. Um, I mean I was very frustrated. [snorts] uh professionally for years. that with the Rolling St. That was a huge frustration for me. >> Yeah. >> I mean and and and. I solved it, >> you know, I solved it and I mean with. everyone else's help obviously, but they. had to agree to it, you [snorts] know. It was like, huh? And I, you know, I.

mean, it's like, okay, um, that, but you. know, it's like. that was a huge frustration that I I'm I. mean, you ask me these really difficult. questions. I'm trying to come up with. something to say it, but that was a huge. frustration. And and and I if if you'd. have interviewed me. four years ago, I would have said that. >> There's another old clip I saw of you. from a press conference, probably. >> really old one. one of those because we. don't press conferences for hundreds of.

years. >> Really old. I think maybe connected to a. Madison Square Garden concert in the. late 60s, something like that. And. someone uh just asked, you know, just. asks you some vague question like how. how do you think about being in the. Rolling Stones? And you describe the. Rolling Stones as. >> financially dissatisfied, uh you know, uh sexually satisfied, philosophically. trying. Yeah, that's just a pat answer. to a news conference in New York where. you used to say people used to throw you.

just really dumb questions, but that was. quite a good one. >> Yeah, that was but so don't give me the. pat answer in 2026. Where do you stand. with those three things? >> My my interest in philosophy is. superficial. >> Um I mean merely because I find it a. really hard subject. I I I mean I really. I I really find it difficult because I I. need a teacher. I can't just do it from. reading. I I can't. And [snorts] when I. was in college, I did some some.

philosophy courses and that's hundreds. of years ago. And and I didn't really I. don't I make one reference to the to in. in the song um [snorts]. Oh, in Jealous Lover's there's a Plato. reference. >> Ah, Shadows on the Wall. >> Yes, you got it. Well done. Look at. >> that. There you got it. So, yeah, but I. But uh on my cave that's even more.

obvious. >> Um. uh. >> but I find it a really hard subject to. educate myself into and I've recently. read a couple of books. I'm really. finding it hard and so and they're. always always having so many arguments. these philosophers and and they're. always like disagreeing with their. masters what and then the master. disagrees with then the m I was reading. this book on K and he so his he has this.

people I can't forget his name who then. he writes a book they're attacking his. own master and then then Kant replies to. him you know they're quite rude to each. other and then they have to make up. later and and and I and none of it I can. understand what they're really talking. about. You know, was Kant a Christian? [snorts]. >> I think. >> was he an atheist? >> I think it's cool that you're reading. Kant. >> Well, it's sort of vaguely fashionable. >> Um wait, but but so let's say Phil is. still trying and let's just, you know,

>> I'm sticking with that one. I'm still. sticking with that 1965 quote. >> All right. Um Mick, you know what? But. this is a corny way to end, but it's. been a gas gas gas gas. >> Oh [laughter] no, that's awful. Dave, that's terrible. I wish I wore a pink. shirt. [laughter]. [gasps]. >> Thank you very much. I appreciate you so. much. Thanks. Take care. >> Bye. [music]. >> I'm Lulu Garcia Navaro. >> And I'm David Marques. >> and we're the hosts of The Interview, an.

audio and video podcast [music] from the. New York Times. Every week we interview. fascinating and influential people from. all walks of life. >> Subscribe to our YouTube channel so. you'll never miss an episode.