How Charlize Theron Overcame Her Dark Family Past | The Interview

He shot through the steel doors to get. into the house. Um, making it very clear. that he was going to kill us. I'm Lulu Garcia Navaro and today I'm in. LA to speak with Charlie's Theren. Theren's new film, Apex, is about a rock. climber who is also able to kick some. serious butt. >> Let's [music] do it. So, I wanted to talk to her about what. motivates her to make action movies like. that.

>> We can't fight like men, >> but that doesn't mean we can't fight. >> And if overcoming her traumatic past has. anything to do with it, >> I wasn't going to let anything [music]. take away from my life. Some of it maybe. has to do with the fact that [music] I. experienced so much death early on. Here's my conversation with Charlies. Theren. [music].

>> Can we tell the folks outside to. >> Oh, of course. It's my team. >> You're being way too nice. Shut up. [laughter]. >> See, that works. They're too chatty. We're all just a bunch of chatties. I. love it. So, we're meeting uh the day after the. Oscars and uh I was watching um your. acceptance speech when you won your. Oscar for Monster in 2004. And you know, you're standing on stage, you're tearing.

up. Um it's clearly just this very. important moment, which of course it is. for any actor. Your mom is sitting in. the audience and you thank her for all. her sacrifices. You have sacrificed so. much for me to be able to live here and. make my dreams come true. And there are. no words to describe how much I love. you. When. >> you when you look back now, what what do. you think about that that young woman. and what was happening at that moment? >> The first the first thing that came to.

mind was just this is something that. this doesn't happen to girls in South. Africa. Like you know, it's like I. remember looking at a map and I was. like, "God, we're all the way down here. God, what's going on up there? I. remember like feeling very lucky that I. made it out here and like my greatest. dream, like my like lottery win would. have been to be able to support myself. as an actor and not have a second job.

>> Like that was literally what I was like. aiming for. like not just aiming for it. like that would have been I just wanted. to like be able to support myself, not. depend on my mom or a guy, feel secure. and get to do the thing that I. absolutely love. But the thing with my. mom is very I'm going to try and talk. about it very professionally because I. will tear up. She did sacrifice a lot. >> Yeah. And we're going to talk about. that. And you can tell just in that. moment, you know, the connection, the. just looking at each other.

>> Well, I couldn't look at her. I was. like, "I'm not going to look at you.". Like the first part of the speech, I I. handled it like I was like like just. really excited and shocked and I was. like, "Do not look at her. Do not look. at her." Cuz I knew that as soon as I. looked at her, I was going to feel I. just knew that cuz it's it was somewhat. of a shared experience. >> Yeah. I can see you getting emotional. now. >> No, I'm not. I don't know what you're. talking about. [laughter]. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's hard not to because. it's so real. you know, I'm a mom now.

and I don't have to sacrifice the things. like she did. So, I know what she did. and and I'm very grateful. Yeah. I guess. since we started here, um. we'll we'll talk about the movie, but. since we're already talking about your. family and and you know, where where you. came from, um. you grew up in South Africa on a small. farm. >> Yeah. Tell me about what you remember.

about growing up there and what your. life was like. >> I remember very vividly moving to that. farm. I I was 4 years old. Um. but I remember seeing it. I remember it. being feeling when I was that age like. so vast. It really was. And it was like. 16 acres, but it just felt like this. like vast cuz it had it had I think they. were growing um alalfa on it and one.

side they were growing corn on it. So, it just had this kind of error of and. they had these two big reservoirs on it. and there was this big big tree and I. don't know what tree it was, but it was. kind of like it greeted you as you were. driving in and I have very very vivid. memories of this tree and climbing it. and climbing it recklessly barefoot um. and just feeling. it was like a sense of freedom for sure. I. >> Were you like a tomboy? Were you an.

athletic child? Yeah. No, I definitely. like liked adventure and I liked when I. think back now, my every day was filled. with kind of imagination. Like, you. know, I would go out and go to the. garden. I would imagine I was a chef and. I was going to it was always there was. always a story attached. You know, if. the dogs came with me, I was like. Sheena, Queen of the Jungle. When I. started watching movies, I really kind. of like started interpret interpreting. my movies into my everyday life. So.

yeah, I loved adventure. I liked getting. into trouble, too. You know, I like to. do things that I knew I wasn't allowed. to do, but I was allowed to do so much. Like, you know, >> you like to kind of run wild. >> Yes. Yeah. It was that that I I mean, I. could take my BMX out and go into like. the closest little town to go rent. movies. I mean, I would tell my mom, >> right, >> but she wasn't But I could do pretty. much anything that I wanted to do. H. [snorts]. >> Did that make you sort of independent? >> Yeah.

>> Growing up, you just felt like you had. the run of the world. >> Yeah, I was super independent. I feel. like that's not unusual, though. I felt. like my friends kind of grew up that. way, too. I felt like my independence. also had to just come from like an. emotional place. You know, my house. wasn't always stable. And so I was I. felt very responsible to like make sure. that like I was taken care of like there. was this kind of thing that by the time. I moved out of the house I knew how to.

take care of myself on many levels. Before we get to what was going on. inside the house outside the house was. also a lot of instability. I mean, I was. looking at your town and, you know, the. mid1 1980s in particular were sort of a. time of violent uprisings against. apartheid. Um, that led to a state of. emergency in your hometown, Benoni. They. there was a lot of state repression, resistance. >> I mean, you were a very young kid, but. do you remember any of that? Did that. sort of play into how you saw? >> Yeah, I think of that as kind of like.

the next wave of my memories. Um because. it was you just you you couldn't avoid. it. Like violence and and turmoil was. something that was like everyday life in. South Africa. If you got in the car, if. I went to the bank with my mom, that was. something that you just saw on the side. of the roads. And for sure I I saw. things that I shouldn't have seen at at. a very young age when it concerning. violence because that was just the. circumstances. So there was a lot of.

talk constantly about apartheite. It was. a hot topic. Like you'd go to a. barbecue, that's what everybody was. talking about. They weren't really. hiding it from the kids. >> When you say you saw violence, what do. you remember anything in particular? >> Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Like vividly. That's like tough stuff to talk about. I. was like very young. I saw I saw a man. burn inside a car on the side of the. road.

Um, God and and a lot of people pulling. over and trying to help and not being. able to help. Um, I also then later, you know, I saw. what HIV and AIDS was doing. Like. >> I remember people being wheelbarrowed. into our house because they knew my mom. would take them to a clinic. H. you know. you have spoken a lot about um.

the turbulence outside but also as you. mentioned inside your family and. your father was an alcoholic. Um as. someone myself who's you know dealt with. alcohol abuse in in our family it is an. incredibly difficult thing especially. for a child to deal with. When did you realize that your own home. life was maybe different than other. friends of yours? >> That's a good question.

>> Um, pretty young, I would say. Really. young. I have very like memories from when I. was really young seeing and it scared me. seeing drunk people, but like really. drunk people like people crawling on the. floor kind of drunk, you know. Um, yeah. And it was scary in the beginning, you know, like I remember vividly like. seeing my uncle like really drunk and I. was it was frightening. It was really. frightening. But that became so.

consistent that that was every Friday, Saturday, maybe even every Wednesday. Like my dad had built this really big. bar inside the house. And. again, not very unusual. Like a lot of. South Africans have a like they love to. kind of create a space in their house. where they can drink. >> and barbecue and. >> Exactly. Exactly. But it became kind of. the live where he lived. It was where. you you never saw him anywhere else in. the house. You always saw him there in. the house.

>> Um and he was very he was a full-blown. functioning drunk. It was, you know, but he had moments in his life where he. would kind of like like go missing. Like. we just wouldn't know where he was and. he would usually kind of return in a. state that was pretty severe. And that's, you know, it would get messy. and loud. And. um my mom's not a wallflower either, so. she wasn't just like sitting and taking. it, you know, she was definitely.

Yeah. I mean, she made it known that she. wasn't happy about his lifestyle. >> So, it caused because of both of them. It really caused a lot of like verbal. abuse. And they also just the I honestly. personally for me, the worst thing was. they would ice each other. They wouldn't. talk to each other for like there was. like a big fight and then they wouldn't. talk to each other for like 3 weeks. >> And I didn't have siblings and my house. just went silent.

>> It just went totally silent. like no one. would even say good morning to each. other and like I would be so scared to. say something. >> So they would like for 3 weeks no one. would talk inside the house. >> Did you feel like you had to mediate. that or you just wanted to not be. included in that? >> Yeah. I wouldn't because it's South. Africa at that time when I was raised it. was like children should be seen and not. heard. You never said anything ever. Ever. I remember one time saying. something to my dad and it was like I. was made very aware like you just don't.

do that. It's got it's none of your. business. >> Was he violent towards you? >> I I mean violent he was scary in a sense. that wasn't like he didn't hit me. He he. didn't throw me against a wall, but he. would do things like he would drive. drunk and he would drive scary and they. would get into a fight and he would. like, you know, um you know, it was a. lot of kind of verbal abuse. He was. taking vi he would become violent on.

things, you know. Um, but he. that was also just a lot of threatening. language, you know, >> that just became normal. It really. became normal. And so I never I never. when I was younger stepped in um when I. was around 12, I think I remember my mom. or no, maybe even 13. And I remember my. mom using the divorce word for the first. time. >> And divorce is just then was not I I.

didn't we didn't know people who were. divorced. And my parents weren't. religious, but it was just culturally. one of those things like you just didn't. do that. Like so that was never kind of. even discussed. They had been married. for 25 years. And so when she said like I think I. think the best thing for us is for me to. separate from him and. it doesn't make any sense. But it was so. scary because I didn't know what that. would look like. And so in a weird way I. was almost talking her back into like.

staying. >> Mhm. >> Because the alternative felt so foreign. to me. But I think she knew and she was trying. to figure out ways to I mean she sent me. to a boarding school specifically. because she she wanted me to get out of. the house. She knew that she had to get. me out of the house. I mean it was. getting to that point where she was very. aware what it was doing to me. M. >> so it was a combination of all of those. things just.

it's like so strange to you know all cuz. all the memories are there. >> and it's not that I don't try and think. about it but it's just weird you're kind. of like going in such a linear manner. that it becomes almost more clear when. you talk about it that way cuz people. tend to just isolate it and talk want to. talk about one thing but it helps to. kind of explain. that these things build and they build. and it takes years sometimes.

for things to go as wrong as it did in. my house. >> The reason I actually wanted to go. linear is because you you have mentioned. in other interviews how everyone focuses. on what we're about to talk about, but. that. >> everything that came before was actually. where the real trauma lays. >> Yeah. I mean there was definitely. >> made me curious. >> Yeah, they were shocked because it's you. know a tremendous thing to happen in.

anyone's life. Um I'll just tell the part that um we. better talk about some fun things after. this. >> We are going to talk about some fun. things. >> That's all I have to say. Like. >> I didn't mean to start here. >> No, not at all. Not at all. Um I was 15. years old. and my mom and I my mom would do this. thing too like she would she would take. me to the movies. Um and when my when I. was younger it was the drive in theater.

and again like when I was older I. realized she was trying to get me out of. the house out of the house. But we had. gone to see a movie and. um my dad had taken the key to the. front. Sad. Not even the front door. The. front steel door. Every every room in. our house had a steel door. So if you. got into the front door, the kitchen had. a steel door that you had to unlock cuz. that's the kind of violence that we were.

living in. Nonsensical violence. like. violence that you couldn't. reason with. It just. I mean our country was on the brink of. civil war. It was like it was. frightening. So she couldn't get into the first lock. and we always knew where he was. His. brother lived a couple of streets away. and if he wasn't home, he was always. there drinking and nothing out of the.

the usual. I mean, we went over and they. were pretty loaded and I had to pee. really badly. So, I ran into the house. to get to the toilet and he took that as. me being really rude because I didn't. stop and say hello to everybody. Big thing in South Africa, like the kind. of respect that you have to have for. elders. and he was in a state where he. just kind of like spiraled like why. didn't you stop like like who do you.

think you are and this kind of thing. started and but anyway um. [clears throat] my mom had had a pretty. bad couple of weeks with him. and I think he felt like I was kind of. going through a stage of not you know I. wasn't just going to my room anymore I. was maybe getting involved or I would. protect protect her in the sense that I. would stand up for her and I don't I. think it it had built and that's why he. was spending so much time with his.

family and um we left. but you could just tell you I I just. knew that that was kind of the straw. that broke the camel's back for him. >> I felt it. I felt like something was. different. And when we got home, I sat. down with my mom and I said, "I think. you're right. I think you should. separate from him. I had I had never. imagined that those words would come out. of my mouth. >> But leaving that house, I knew something.

was just different. She knew it, too. I knew he was mad at me. So eventually. when he decided to come home, I said to. her, "Please tell him I'm asleep." And. so I went into my room. I turned my. lights off. And because I just didn't I. was I was scared. And I could always tell like my window. faced the drive. I could always tell by. the way he drove in. like the level of anger, frustration or.

unhappiness. and the then the way he drove into that. property that night. I don't I can't explain it to you. I. just knew something bad was going to. happen. >> She knew it, too. to get to the point. He finally broke. into the house. He shot his he shot. through the steel doors to get into the. house. Um, making it very clear that he. was going to kill us. His brother was.

with him as well. And yeah, we knew it was serious. And so. by the time he broke into the first. gate, my mom ran to the safe to get her. gun. She came into my bedroom. And this is again one of those crazy. things. The two of us were holding the. door with our bodies cuz they weren't. there wasn't a lock on it and he just. stepped back and started shooting. through the door and not one bullet hit. us. It's insane when you think about it.

that way. But the verbal I mean the. messaging was very clear. I'm going to. kill you tonight. Tonight it was. verbally very very clear. You think I. can't come into the store? Watch me and. I'm going to go to the safe. I'm going. to get the shotgun. Let me show you how. I can get through the store. that kind. of stuff. >> Encouragement from the brother. Um, and my mom, he had walked to the. safe and my mom pulled the door open. while the brother was still standing. there and the brother ran down the.

hallway and she shot one bullet down the. hallway that ricocheted seven times and. shot him in the hand. It's stuff you can't explain. >> No. um and then followed my father who was. by then opening the safe to get more. weapons out and she shot him. Unfortunately, not an isolated story. You know, these things are prevalent in.

a lot of famil family's homes and I feel. like women really get a very very unfair. shake even in I feel like in this. country. >> um women who nobody takes it seriously. the situation that they're in and I. don't think anybody took my mom. seriously. [snorts]. >> in advance to this. You mean that. >> to how bad it was? >> Right. You know, when you're dealing. with a charming drunk, like who could be. very charming and was always looking for.

buddies to kind of like come join the. party, >> there was a lot of and also. [clears throat] a culture that just. accepted it. Like it was a culture that. that was part of being South African. like men drink. And I remember my little tiny nephew. saying like when people are like, "What. are you going to do when you grow up?". I'm gonna drink. I like that was part of the culture. That's when you become a man. >> That doesn't help either.

>> I I just want to say um I I wasn't going. to start here um but because I asked you. um before the interview if it was okay. to talk about it. I guess that's where. that's why we've ended up um. >> ended up here. >> Yeah. To be clear, I I think these. things should be talked about, you know, um because it it makes other people not. feel alone, you know, and I feel like I. never knew about a story like that, you. know, when this happened to us. I. thought we were the only people, my mom. and I, that this was going on with.

>> And now the two of us look at it. I've. had therapy around this. She's had she's. also just she's a tough broad. So part. of her is just like it's part of my. life. It's not who I am. >> I'm way more interesting than this. And. oh, is she more interesting than that. So I know she won't mind this. >> So yeah, it's a good way to, I think, make people not feel alone. And you. know, I'm I'm not haunted by any of this. stuff anymore.

>> And in fact, you've become a campaigner. to prevent genderbased violence. You've. made its. very clear that trauma does not define. you. >> It does mention bind you and your mother. though and and your story. How would you. say it changed your relationship to her. that moment? >> It's a very good question because it. did. It really did change our. relationship. We were always very close. We felt like a team.

Um, but that night changed it because in. retrospect, like once I got out of the. shock of it, I realized that she saved. my life, which is a big thing, you know. >> Oh my goodness. It's the ultimate. sacrifice a mother can give. >> Yeah. And then also the aftermath of. like she picked right up like she. this is I think such a testament to her. strength because the next morning she.

sent me to school. She was just like you're going to move. on. Not necessarily the healthiest thing. but it worked for us. She wanted me to. forget about it. She didn't want me to. like sit in it. We didn't have. therapists around. It wasn't like she. was going to say like go see a. therapist. we just didn't have access to. those things. So in her head, the best. therapy was. we have to move on. We can't like. sit in this.

>> And did you I mean in the sense that did. you like lock it away? >> I did. Yeah. Because there was a lot of. shame kind of surrounding it as well. because I felt like everybody knew. they knew. how bad it was. Nobody stepped in to. help, but everybody knew. And then there. was like and like I feel like. kids had this kind of attitude towards. me. Like even though their parents were. in the same boat there I knew so many of.

them and their parents to be alcoholics. there was this kind of energy that was. like. well yours is like really bad like that. that happened you know. >> not being aware that they were moments. away from having the same experience. >> Do you think it branded like you felt. like they judged you and it kind of. separated you from them? >> Yes. And I actually there was only one. time I became violent and it was um a a. girl had kind of like taunted me with it. and she was kind of walking around.

telling everybody how she had seen my. dad drunk and you know this was. something that was super sensitive to me. cuz he would show up at school events. really drunk and it was really. embarrassing and not that a child I mean. I know this now but not that a child. should ever take that on. that's that. has nothing to do with you. But but when. you don't know that, you you make it. very personal. I always felt like I had to make excuses. for him. I always had to like tell some. story to soften the edges a little bit.

>> And I think I did try to sweep it under. the rug because I also I hated people. feeling sorry for me. I hated it. I I. almost feel like that was the worst. thing was like that now for the rest of. my life people are going to feel sorry. for me. So for the first couple of. years, for as long as I could, I would. have told the story that he died in a. car accident and that it happened then. three years earlier. I couldn't tell it. to my school friends. But by the time I.

left South Africa, that's the story I. told cuz I just I didn't want to like. have people show p I didn't I didn't. want pity. Made me so uncomfortable. So. you end up leaving South Africa. >> Yeah. And. you're young. Um, >> yeah, I had just turned 16, >> which is amazing. And you go to model. initially in Italy. I just wonder what. it was like to be. that person at 16.

with everything that had happened. >> It was amazing. >> Really? >> It was amazing cuz it was expecting that. >> escapism. Oh, okay. >> I could escape. The only thing that was. really really hard for me was knowing. that I was leaving my mom behind. >> But she was the one that said, "You have. to go." Like, "You have to go. You got. go get out of here. Go and make a life. for yourself. There's nothing for you here right now.".

>> What was it like um once you got that. opportunity and you were out in the. world sort of living at at 16? >> Yeah. Did you feel equipped? Yeah, I was. so equipped. I mean, I knew how to take. care of myself. That's just something my. mom instilled in me, my lifestyle. instilled in me, my country did. >> Like, you just you know how to take care. of yourself. You know how to cook and. even in our school, they teach you how. to sew. I mean, I know more than my kids. will ever know as adults, you know, about taking care of myself. And I also.

had this real drive that I wanted to do. it on my own terms. Like, I didn't want. to go out there. She had given me a. credit card, but I would I was so. determined to do this on my own and to. not fail cuz I didn't want to go back. I. didn't want to go back. >> So, I was running from a lot of stuff. >> and I was happy to escape it. and you come to America and you you're a. dancer and you're studying at the. Joffrey Ballet. >> and you have a pretty serious um injury.

or. >> it was a builtup. >> a builtup thing that you just sort of. ended [clears throat] up not being able. to dance anymore. >> Yeah. Yeah. It was like a consistent. injury that showed up my knees. I was. too tall to be a dancer. >> And by the time I got to Jeffrey. Joffrey, I was mainly taking class. M. >> um I think I was in full denial cuz I. didn't have another plan. I really. didn't have a plan for anything after. that.

>> And so was it must have been scary. >> That was when it got scary. Yeah. I went. into like my first depression. >> H. >> um. yeah, I lived in somebody's basement. I. was renting a room in this basement. It. didn't have any windows. And I just remember it was like. really cold winter and I was living in. darkness, like complete darkness. And my. mom came over. She was really worried. about me.

And. I'll never forget it. We sat on like. this crappy couch that was covered with. a blanket cuz it was so disgusting. And. we both had a pint of ice cream and we. were just eating ice cream. And she just. said she she just said like, "You love. movies. You were always watching movies. Always. That's all you did as a kid. You. watched movies. And then when you. started dancing, she's like, "News. flash. You were not a great dancer, but. you were the best actor. Like, you would. go on stage and you could tell the.

story." She's like, "You know how to do. that.". >> And you had not thought about that. >> No. No. I didn't even know how you went. about it. I had no idea how you went. about it. And neither did she. I mean, it was like, >> I'll buy the ticket, you'll go to. Hollywood. And. >> we got the ticket and I was like, h, it. doesn't say Hollywood. It says Los. Angeles. I mean, that is how naive we. were. >> I was thinking a lot about how much. you'd experience from 15 to 18, which is. this period in which this all happens.

You leave, you have this traumatic. event, you go to Italy, then you go to. New York, you don't know what you're. going to do. Then you come to LA, you. get discovered. and. you'd lost a career, you'd found a. career maybe. I mean, this is most. people experience that in one lifetime. I mean, did did you did you feel that. that already at by the age of 18, you'd. sort of gone through this enormous. change? I just remember excitement. I.

really like once I got like out of my. dark hole, there's something about your naive that. makes you not think about the. alternative in my Well, for me anyway, I. should speak for myself, but. >> I think that's true of young people. generally. >> You just think like anything's possible. >> Yeah. >> And nothing bad's going to happen. [clears throat] And not to you, you. know, you just you think you're. invincible. And I had big dreams and I.

had this kind of clock ticking cuz I. didn't want to go back. So I was. constantly kind of like like a hustler, but I felt very I I just remember those. years very fondly. I was excited. I had. found this like really great group of. friends and I was going out and dance. These were all things that I didn't grow. up with. You know in South Africa you. don't go to a club like you don't go. like during sec I mean we had I don't. think I I don't want to like some South.

African going to be like that's not true. but my experience was that there wasn't. like concerts. >> I didn't go to concerts and I think even. >> boycots right so. >> yes exactly sanctions kind of like. stopped that but even prior to the. sanctions and I think even if there were. my mom would never let me go because. >> you'd hear of like crowd bombing and. things like that. >> So, this was the first time you were. able to really be young. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. >> So, in fact, the opposite of what I. thought. >> No, I was like dancing until the sun.

came up and then I would go to auditions. and be great. Like, I was like I had no. sleep. I functioned on no sleep. I ate. terribly cuz that's what I could afford. But I was so happy. I was so happy. So, this brings me actually to your new. movie. Um, because you've been doing a. lot of tough roles lately and you are. what I consider to be um our modern-day.

action hero. >> Oh, >> do you consider yourself to be an action. hero? >> I don't know about the hero part. [laughter]. >> I'm making a kind of obvious assumption. um considering where we've started, but. I've heard you just say words like. independent, um self-sufficient, you know, wanting to do things your own. way, and it to me there's just like a. very clear throughine to this version of. your career. >> Yeah. >> Why was that something that you were.

attracted to? So, I had had little. moments in movies where I had to do like. an action scene, you know, it was like. stunt people would come in and it would. be like, "Oh, we're going to like th. There was like a big fight scene that I. had in Two Days in the Valley, my first. movie that I ever did. I made the connection pretty quickly to. my dance career.". And the thing that my mom said was in.

that moment became very clear to me. The. fact that I am I'm a natural storyteller. and if I have to do it through my body, I'll do it through my body. If I can do. it through my mouth, I'll do it through. my mouth. And I had missed telling story. through my body. >> You know, you said in a recent interview, I have surgery after every movie. [laughter] You said you wanted to get to. the fun stuff. And so I just have to.

bring this up before we talk a little. bit more about this because [gasps]. >> I actually looked into it. >> Oh boy. >> Our whole team did. And um and we were. just we went down a rabbit hole. >> Uh after this new movie Apex, you got. elbow surgery. >> Two elbow a revision. Yeah. One and a. revision surgery. Yeah. >> You also fractured a toe. Yeah. Please. fill me in on the stuff that we've. missed. [laughter]. While making the Old Guard, you filmed. through injuries and got three surgeries. on your left arm afterwards. Yeah. Is.

that right? Okay. Making Atomic Blonde, you cracked two teeth and got root. canals. >> Yeah. My teeth were replaced fully. Yeah. >> Fully. >> Not my whole I have all my own teeth. even though some people don't believe. that. I took care of my teeth. Um two in. the back. Um they had to just they had. to remove them. They were so crushed. I'll also say that one of the ones that. I left off is that you spent 5 days in. the hospital after laughing too hard. watching Borat. [laughter].

I didn't quite understand. Was that like. a hernia that you got? Like. >> So I had herniated a disc in my neck. making a movie. I landed on my neck and. it was a really severe injury. >> Oh my gosh. >> I was moments away from being paralyzed. It was actually that bad. I landed on a. concrete floor on my neck. >> What movie was this? >> On Ian Flux. Oh god. >> And they had to shut the movie down. And. um I had an injury that everybody was. hoping my body could heal after I mean. they I was on bed rest and doing PT and.

um but they were hoping that the disc I. was young enough. >> and the disc is really soft up there. that my body would absorb it and so they. didn't want to just do surgery straight. away. >> And I think it was a big mistake because. I suffered for eight years and had. chronic pain. chronic pain and my neck. was that disc sat so close to all of my. nerves. that if I did anything wrong with it, anything I didn't like, it would just. sit on nerves and I would just be locked.

locked for weeks. And I lived my life. like that for eight years. And so the. Borat thing is funny because I laughed. so hard that I locked it. I locked that. disc into the nerves and it was actually. really bad. I had to like. >> Yeah, I was about to say it's not a. funny story. That's a horrible story. It's a funny story now. I mean, we still. laugh about it, >> but um I had to like get flown like on a. private plane that night and came back. to LA and and when I had my first baby, I just said to the doctor, I want to.

have the surgery because I I just don't. want to live in this place where I have. a child and I can't pick her up because. my neck is out. And so I I kind of like. >> it was the best thing I ever did. I know. a lot of people who've lived with. chronic pain and it's really. debilitating and really hard um to think. about anything else. What was it like. for you? >> It was horrible. It's horrible cuz it's. constant fear of like I don't know if I. should do that and I'm like in the prime.

of my life. >> Um and then then it became so acute like. I would just get out of the shower and. reach for a towel and it would lock and. I would be in bed for 5 days not being. able to move. I think I was so worn down. by the end of the eight years that if. they weren't going to do it, I was gonna. like go to a country and [laughter] get. it done where they would allow it to. happen. I was that desperate. >> I was also, you know, I I shared with my. doctor. >> cuz I was on a lot of o opioids and. things like that. >> About to ask.

>> and if I if I you would think with my. dad as well like the worry of addiction. Thank God I I I don't have an issue with. addiction and that I didn't become. addicted to them. But I think back now. and I just go like that was just. so irresponsible in a weird way with. myself. The fact that I was just. thinking I can kind of I I would be able. to control this somehow. >> You know, if that were my reality, I.

would then probably not want to throw. myself and become an action star. I. would want to protect myself from from. injury and those kinds of issues. Why do. you think you went in the opposite. direction? >> I think I wasn't going to let anything. take away from my life. >> I have there is a spirit about me that. and I think some of it maybe has to do. with the fact that I experienced so much. death early on. >> I'm very aware that time runs out really.

quickly and that time can run out as. soon as I walk out of this building. I. can cross the street and it's done. I'm. so hyper aware of that. I live my life. every single day like that. If I lay in. bed one day, I'm like I I am missing a. day in my life. But I was never going to. be I didn't want to live like a safe. life because of that. I mean, I do. [snorts] live a very safe life. I'm not. a reckless person. I think people think. I am, but I'm not a reckless I I get. scared. I'm not reckless, but I don't. wanna I wanna if I get to be on my.

deathbed one day, I want to say I did. everything that I really wanted to do. >> Um, let's talk about Apex. >> Yeah, I can see you getting tearing. >> No, I'm not. I don't know what you're. talking about. Let's talk about Apex. >> Tell me, but actually before I um move. on, what made you emotional? >> Cuz life is so valuable. I I think like. life is so beautiful. Stop it. No, this is not in the. interview. You are not putting this in. the interview. It's so sappy and stupid.

>> It's not. >> It's so stupid. It's really stupid. >> But h but this is But I feel like I'm. getting I'm getting the real you, which. is a person who still doesn't want to. like be in touch with their emotions. [laughter]. >> It's so funny cuz people are always like. they think I'm a tough you know? Like I think a lot of people think I'm. like very cold because I come across as. like self like I I can take care of. myself. like I don't need like and I'm. also I'm sometimes a little brash and I. think people take that as she's so tough.

like she's so cold and it's the complete. opposite. My my kids are so embarrassed. by me cuz I will cry at the drop of a. hat. My kids are always like stop. crying. So I have access and I think. it's not to be like but I think it's why. I'm okay at acting. I I can go I can go. to those places very easily as as you. can tell [laughter]. I get I have like an ability to really.

feel deeply sometimes like you know it's. not nice but it works for my job and it. and it works in my life like. >> I really I appreciate I do appreciate. things and I'm not perfect at that every. day but I aim for that definitely. >> Okay. Um because we keep on losing going. in a different direction which I have. enjoyed. But I want to talk about the. movie. In this new movie, you play a. mountain climber who ends up being. chased through the Australian jungle. >> Rock climber. >> Rock climber.

>> Do your research. >> Thank you. >> Seriously. >> Oh my god. [laughter]. But I'm wondering about the mental. challenges of doing movies like that. I. mean, what what are they for you? Because it's not just a physical game. It's a mental game. >> Dance. Dance is probably one of the. hardest things I ever did. Dancers are. superheroes. >> What dancers put their bodies through in. complete silence. Um, >> sorry, Timothy Shalom. >> Oh boy, I hope I run into him one day.

Yeah, I feel like that was a very. reckless comment on an art form, two art. forms that we need to lift up constantly. because yes, they do have a hard time. Um, but in about 10 years, I think AI is. going to be able to do Timothy's job, but it will not be able to replace a. person on a stage dancing live. And we. shouldn't on other art forms. How. about we start with that? Um, I think. that it's one of the most disciplined.

things that I've ever done. It taught me. discipline. It taught me structure. It. taught me hard work. It taught me to be. tough. Um, it's borderline abusive, [laughter]. [gasps] you know. I mean, I remember. having to dance with I had so there were. several times that I had blood. infections from blisters that just never. healed. And you don't get a day off. I. mean, I'm literally talking about. bleeding through your shoes. And that's. something that you have to like practice.

every single day. You practice it every. single day if you're a dancer at that. level. >> You mean you practice the mindset? mindset of just. >> and there's no other option like you're. going. >> you're going to keep going. I was just. wondering what you think about being a. woman in an action role because in this. particular film the tension doesn't only. come from the thrills and I don't want. to give too much away and you know you. and sort of physical extremes it also. comes through you as a woman feeling.

threatened as many women feel threatened. by. the circumstances around you whether. there are men who are actually wishing. you ill or is a wild animal going to. come and overpower you. >> Do you think female action heroes get. dramatic tension or need to get dramatic. tension from other sources than men? >> For sure. Yeah. I. I I I think it's hard for some men to. understand that when we go down into a. parking garage, it's one of the most.

fright. I mean, for me it is like. especially at night like um I get the I. get like a horrible feeling in a and. like one of those like deep parking. garages and underground parking lots. I. mean, I'm constantly looking over my. shoulder and then I'm trying to get into. my car as quick as possible. >> I don't know how many men think about. that. We just have a different mindset. for sure. I think we have to. >> and that's what makes us interesting and. that's what makes us I think interesting. action stars or action uh subjects you.

know I think we attack action. differently you know we can't fight like. men so but that doesn't mean we can't. fight so our tagline on Atomic Blonde. was always fight like a girl. >> because that's good that's good fight. like a girl it's different um I don't I. don't ever aspire to go into these. movies trying to like outdo. you know the male counterpart like I was. sitting opposite Taran and I was like he.

was working out so I was like there's no. way you would totally overpower me like. if co-star. >> exactly Taran Edertton. >> I was like you would totally overpower. me so we have to like figure out other. things like maybe under certain. circumstances by element of surprise I. could do it but I've I I'm a bit of a. a stigler for reality. Like when I make. movies, like I want to know that you can. really do something. Like I'm always. kind of like on everybody's back like. can that happen? But what would happen?

Um I want to see that happen cuz I don't. believe that. Um because I love movies. because I believe it. Like I want to go. in there and believe it. So I like kind. of attacking action movies in that sense. that I want to make something that feels. very realistic. I'm not playing. superheroes. In 2017, I interviewed um David Leech, who directed You An Atomic Blonde, and. something he said to me was that indeed. it's different to fight as a woman. And.

he is obviously someone whose background. is in being a stunt man. >> Yeah. >> And he said it's not about punching with. brute force, but it's about using. leverage. It's just a different way to. >> engage in physical conflict. >> Can you fight in real life? Are you. someone who now feels like you could. take someone down? >> I mean, how many times do we think about. that, Lulu? Like I like I don't think. about can I take people down, but I. always think. >> I do if I'm in a dark parking lot.

>> So, there's that part of my brain that. it's about defending yourself. >> Yes. And I also think just given my. history, I'm hyper aware like of those. things. Um little things like fight with. your elbows. Your el Oh, weirdly. You. see, that's maybe why my elbows are so. busted. We're getting to some stuff. here. [laughter] But in general, we have. [clears throat] a lot of force in our. elbows. And we can swing really hard. from our elbows, not so much from our. wrists. So, you know, coming forward.

with your finger. Yeah. But your el this. is a full force arm move. And. >> it can take somebody down if you hit it. in the right way. >> I feel like I'm a scrappy. I'm scrappy. >> I'm scrappy. And I'm a survivor. And I. feel like sometimes that's the thing. that sets you apart from actual skill. You know, I think there are people that. would probably take somebody down way. better than I can, but if my life. depended on it, I'm going to bet on me. All right. Thank. you for your honesty and also for.

engaging with me. I really appreciate. it. Really? >> Oh my gosh. You're so welcome and talk. to you soon. [music]. >> On the interview, we talked to our guest. twice. So, a few days later, we spoke. again. >> [music]. >> Everyone good? Thumbs up. Thumbs up. Okay. Hi. [laughter]. >> Hi. I was thinking. about everything that we've talked about. in our first conversation and you know. about the independence that you found at.

an early age and then the tough. characters you've played and the. physical challenges that you've taken on. to play them. And I know from other interviews that. you've given that you've really not. wanted your story to ever be distilled. to its most simplistic version. And I. really don't want to do that here. So. I'm wondering. when you think about your career, what. connections have you made between your. life and the choices that you've made. and your career at large?

>> First of all, thank you for saying that. But I think it's like I do worry. sometimes that I I love having. conversation and and then you know I go. home and I'm like, "Oh, I share too. much. I didn't have to go into that. detail. Why did I say that?" Um. >> the stakes are really high for for. someone like you. I get it. >> I appreciate you saying that. I feel. like. when we were talking, I was thinking. about this yesterday. when we were. talking it and by the way your.

conversation is so natural so I want to. thank you for that too and it made me. think about things that I haven't. thought about in a while but I had a. thought that I don't feel like we talked. about and that is that you know the. opposite is so true of my life and of. South Africa the country that I grew up. in. and I think we covered the hardship but. there is a a gratefulness and a I really.

truly feel blessed that I came from. there, that I was born there, that I. have that soil and my bones. I I feel. like I'm from there. I feel like I share. something with the people of South. Africa. And. the reason I do is because they're the. most resilient, beautiful people that. you will ever meet. And they've been. through all this hardship, but they have. literally come out on the other side. with hope. And it's when I go there, that's the most incredible thing to see. Yes, there are a lot of things that need. to get fixed, but the heart of that.

country is so unbelievably beautiful on. every level. It's truly the most. beautiful country that I've ever been to. and I've been lucky enough to travel a. lot and it's a place filled with joy. And so I just wanted to kind of, you. know, talk a little bit about that. because that is such an important part. of the one side that we covered. yesterday. It's not all it's not all. doom and gloom, you know, [gasps]. >> and uh. >> we got into a place sometimes that's the.

way it goes, >> but that's why this is good because you. kind of get to reflect, right? And that. that doesn't happen usually in. interviews. So, I'm grateful for that. >> So, I know in our first interview we. talked a lot about your personal life. I. I want to talk about some of your work. [gasps] You founded a production company. in 2003 and that was long before female. actors at least were sort of doing that. were taking that kind of ownership. Why. did you think it was important to have.

that kind of power behind the scenes. too? >> You know, I've reflected on this a lot. I think. I've always kind of jumped to a simple. answer which was I wanted to produce. um felt like I was interested in movie. making like the whole thing the whole. part of it the development part of it uh. and that is true but you know if I had. to be really honest I feel like there. was a constant fear that I didn't have.

control over my own work and especially. when you're young I I was. it happened when I made Monster I. remember the people who financed just. thinking we were making such a different. movie and they were really upset with us. with me and Patty Jenkins. And I think that if we didn't have any. kind of producing power over that movie, it would have been a completely. different movie. It it would not have. been the movie that Monster is today.

And it made me realize that it is good. to sometimes have a little bit of that. control where you can say, "Listen, we. were what we start this road together. and we're going to finish this road. together, but we told you what road. we're going on when we started, you. know, and standing up for that and being. able to protect that." [snorts] I you. know it's funny because when you made. Monster you and Patty Jenkins and you. know you become it's obviously a very. pivotal part of your own story of how.

you had this vision and really kind of. created it but there is something about. it was you and another woman who did. that. So when I'm hearing you say like. it wouldn't have been made in the same. way. What do you mean exactly? >> I think uh I'm assuming here obvious. obviously um a lot of these people are. not around anymore and can't speak for. themselves. The the feeling that I got. and Patty and I discussed was that I. think they thought that they were going. to get some kind of a. more of a sexy version.

uh with me and Christina Richi. I think. they were really leaning on kind of that. relationship part and I think they were. not expecting and I I honestly don't. think they had done a lot of research on. Eileen. I think they read the script, I. was attached and they just kind of said. yes to financing it. But if you really. do your research, it's pretty I mean. it's you don't have to explain it. You. know, you can look at all the. documentaries out there on her and. >> why why would you not try and kind of go.

for the truth? I I don't know if they. thought that I would just kind of be me. Maybe because I'd never done anything. like that. So I think that was maybe. another part too. They didn't think I. was going to do the full transformation. I remember when I started getting. gaining weight and we went to one of the. producers threw a party for us and we. went to his house and I very kind of. like just jokingly I was like, "Oh my. god, I have a donut." And I was like. squishing my stomach and showing this. lady in front of me and it turned out it. was his wife and I just remember her.

face and she was like I'm not going to. say the guy's name but she was like, "John, like you should come see this.". [laughter and clears throat] like this. kind of concern just came over her and I. think that was maybe the first sign. But. [laughter] when they started seeing the. first dailies, I remember they were just. like, "You you don't look that great. You're not smiling. You're not. friendly." It was I mean, it was evident. that they they really were not very. happy with the movie that we were. making. >> I mean, some of your most well-known.

roles are about transforming, right, into real people. Monster, it run you an. Oscar. And then you also played Megan. Kelly in the movie Bombshell and you. were nominated for that role too. What. is the difference between creating a. character versus playing someone who. already exists in the world? That's such. a good question because I don't know if. I have the answer yet. I feel. I don't know how to play Eileene.

without looking like Eileen. Like I. don't I don't think I'm the actor that. you should hire for that. I also don't. think I'm the actor you should put in. the in Bombshell to play Megan Kelly. because if I looked like this like me. and maybe attempted like her cadence, I. just I don't know what that is. Like I I. would look at the monitor and just kind. of feel like it's missing. Like. something's wrong, right? I don't know how to do it. So I think.

it's kind of like a necessity for me. Now when I play non, you know, fictional. characters, I don't have to kind of obey. by that, right? But there are moments. where you read something and you kind of. feel like there's a physicality that you. think is maybe necessary. You talk to. your director, you start thinking about. things that can help you not be you, right? I I I'm always trying to just not. look like I'm crossing a street like me. when I'm making a movie. I'm always. like, am I opening this door and is it. like Charlie is showing up? It's hard.

You know, I've made many movies. People. know who I am. And you don't want to. start overusing it in a way where it. feels like. you're just becoming caricatures, you. know? So, it it it takes a lot of. thought and a lot of collaboration to. kind of figure out what that is, what. the balance is. And [sighs]. I I that's why I started. I don't really. truly know the answer yet. [laughter]. You know, I've I've talked to actors and.

they sometimes say that there's like a. little key that unlocks something for. them, you know, whether it's putting on. a wig or figuring out the way they walk. or um just something that opens up a. character. Do you have something like. that for you? >> For me, I wish I could re-shoot the first three. weeks of every movie I make. [laughter]. >> Is that true? >> I Yes. I feel like the first 3 weeks I. am not I am I'm scared. I'm still.

thinking. I'm overthinking. I'm I'm. doing it and it passes but I am not in. that flow that you hear actors talk. about or athletes that that moment where. you're not thinking about anything. You. you're just in it. >> Yeah. Three weeks that's usually. So, I. tried to shoot stupid things for like as. long as I can and then you just have to. put your big girl panties on and do it. like Yeah. Speaking of big girl panties, um, MadMax Fury Road is of course one of.

your most well-known roles and it was. famously grueling to film. My colleague. Kyle Buchanan wrote an oral history of. the movie that brought to light, you. know, how tough the set was, the filming. conditions, the the dynamics with your. co-star uh, Tom Hardy, the director. George Miller. But one of the things. that I found most interesting was how. you described your relationship with the. female actors on the set, including. Riley Kio and Zoe Kravitz. Um, you said in that interview that they.

turned to you as someone who could. problem solve for them, and I'm. wondering what that kind of looked like. It was tough. You know, [snorts] it it's. an environment that's really hard. It. was we were in a desert for six months. and. um I think mentally it really challenged. all of us. It really did. And these poor. girls were in they were wearing bandages. and it was so cold. And I remember Abby. Lee one day just turning blue and I just. I was with the rig was just driving and.

I was like like stop like everybody stop. and like trying to take like some of my. I think I tried to take my pants off or. something to like put pants on her at. least. Um like things like that that I. think was just kind of you know I had. just become a mom. Um, my first kid was. like, I think 2 months old. And I think. I was just in like hyper mom state, too. You know, I loved all of those girls and. I felt like I felt like I I was somewhat.

responsible for them because I was of. another generation and like I knew what. it was like to sometimes not feel like. you had a voice. I also want to add they. were all bad Like honestly, they were really strong, capable curls. like they were not wall flowers. So, I. just want to say that as well. They. didn't need saving. >> All right. Um, last few questions. Looking ahead, you're going to be in the. next Christopher Nolan film, The. Odyssey.

>> Um, I was literally on that movie for. like four breaths. It was so quick. Um, but they were amazing breaths. uh. to have you know Chris Nolan say I would. like to meet you for my next movie is. like do we even need to meet cuz I'm in. like whatever it is I'll do it and uh. yeah I just spent like the last five. days with him and it was tremendous. really really tremendous to just kind of. see a director of that caliber work and. also to see my friend Matt Damon like.

have this part it's like the part of a. lifetime and what he put himself through. and how hard he worked. So, it was a. lovely 5 days. >> Um, you're going to be playing the witch. Cersei. I mean, what can we expect? >> I I don't play her. >> You don't? What do you play? >> I just gave you some insight. I'm not. going to tell you, but I There you have. insight now. You know that it's not her. Everybody thinks it's her, but it's. >> Everyone thinks it's her. Oh my. goodness. Okay. Um, any injuries though.

on the set? No. >> No. No injuries. No. I came out alive. [laughter] and well. Yes. >> All right, Chariss Theren, thank you so. much. This has been um it's been. wonderful. >> The same here. It's definitely been. wonderful. It's very rare to have. conversations [music] like this. So, thank you. [music]. >> I'm Lulu Garcia Navaro. >> And I'm David Marches. and we're the. hosts of the interview, an audio and.

[music] video podcast from the New York. Times. >> Every week we interview fascinating and. influential people from all walks of. life. >> Subscribe to our YouTube channel [music]. so you'll never miss an episode.