Graham Platner Wants a Democratic Revolution | The Interview

We destroyed Iraq and we destroyed. Afghanistan and all the suffering, all. the killing, all the dying, all the. displacement, all of it. And that I'm. ashamed of. [music]. >> In Maine, there's a candidate for Senate. who's electrifying the Democratic base. and worrying the establishment. >> I did four infantry tours in the Marine. Corps and the Army. I'm not afraid to. name an enemy. He's Graeme Platner, a. progressive [music] 41-year-old military. vet and oyster farmer. His pitch of.

starting a workingclass revolution and a. savvy social media strategy has seen him. surge in popularity, [music]. but he's been dogged by controversy in. his short time in the national. spotlight. >> Hey all, it's Graham here. As you've. probably seen, there's a story that's. broken [music] about comments I made on. Reddit in an earlier part of my life. I. am sorry, but it it does not in any way. reflect [music] who I am today or the. beliefs that I hold. >> Now that his primary opponent, Governor.

Janet Mills, is dropped out of the race, Washington Democrats are pinning their. hopes on him [music] to help win back. the Senate in November. >> Nothing brings people together like. wanting to beat Susan Collins. [music]. >> Is he ready? I sat down with him to find. out. >> Not a bad interview setup. >> Here's my conversation with Graham. Platner. [music]. Thank you so much for coming to New York. um on this great day. But um I'm really. I guess you're used to it. I mean. >> Yeah. Well, I mean a little bit. This is. nice though. >> Yeah. And at least we're inside on. >> We're inside. Exactly. We're not We're.

not out in the elements as you normally. are. >> You are now the presumptive uh. Democratic nominee for Senate in Maine. after Janet Mills dropped out. Um, your. opponent, Susan Collins, is viewed as, I. think, one of the most vulnerable GOP. senators uh, up for reelection. I'm sure you know this, a ton of cash is. about to drop. >> Oh, yeah. >> into the race on both sides. Are you. ready for prime time? >> Yeah. I mean, at the I'll be entirely. honest. Like, when we set this thing in.

motion back in August, the entire idea was we wanted to build a. different looking politics in the state. of Maine. Franklin was based around like. community organizing. I'm a firm. believer that organized people is the. only actual place of power to conflict. with organized money. >> And in our society, money is very. organized. We set out on that. You know, we were hopeful. We thought it was going. to work. It's of course worked in a. pretty spectacular fashion thus far.

We're just going to continue doing. exactly that. We're going to continue. doing the public events. We're going to. continue focusing on the field. organizing and we knew that all the. money was going to come. We knew that. like we were up against we're up against. the establishment of the American. political system. Um in many ways we. were up against the Democratic. establishment up until last week and. [gasps]. we figured at some point we were. probably going to win that and then we. were going to go up against the. Republican political establishment which.

is where we find ourselves now. You. know, obviously the test right now is is. is if you can run in a general election. And so, you know, I want to ask straight. up because there have already been quite. a few controversies and we're going to. talk about that um a little bit later, but the GOP is going to dig up. everything um and more that they can. >> Yeah. And probably lie at some point. [laughter]. >> Is there something new you want to get. ahead of? >> No. I mean, like we've I've been I've.

lived my life. Uh I like I've been there. for the whole thing and it's and because. of that like I I I mean I know what I've. what I've been through. I know what I've. I know what my behavior has been. I know. all of it. And the I mean there's a. reason that even after however many. months that was October when they. dropped the opposition research stuff on. us and the whole time there was always. this like oh there's more coming. I'm. always like I don't know like what this. more is going to be. and.

>> these are all your social media posts, etc. Which again, we'll talk about in a. minute. >> And and but there was always this like, oh no, they're they're going to dig up. everything in your life and you know, it's everything you've ever done. I'm. like, yeah, I mean, I get that, but like. I've I've been through my life and like. I'm certainly an imperfect person and I. certainly went through my struggles and. I mean, which I'm sure we'll talk about, but I also know for a fact that like. I've never been close to money. I've. never been close to power. I've never. been able I've never like, you know, uh.

I don't think anything I've ever done. has been outside of the realm of like. what people do when they struggle, when. they suffer, you know, that kind of. stuff. And I'm Yeah, [snorts]. >> you know, I I think those controversies. and the fact that you're such an unknown. is part of the reason why the Democratic. establishment was worried. Um not the. whole reason, but certainly part of it. uh Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer. um recruited obviously Janet Mills to. run against you um because she did have.

that track record of running statewide. and she was viewed as more moderate in. his view. Uh there were no skeletons in. her closet, so to speak. And so I'm. wondering if you feel a lot of pressure. right now because yours is one of the. very few races that could really help to. flip the Senate into Democratic control. As you know, uh, the Democrats are. extremely anxious about resting some.

control back, uh, in their favor. >> for good reason. >> Um, you know, I've had Democrats tell me. that the fate of the country is sort of. in the hands of you and a few other. people now. I mean, how do you feel. about that? >> Yeah, I don't engage with it emotionally. because it's way too much. Like I. this whole experience has been just a. continual. one intensely surreal thing after. another. I mean it it's like I like last. summer when this all happened. I mean my.

wife and I went from one day living a. very small simple life to I mean. literally within days having. [clears throat] this whole thing like. upend our entire existence. And so. there's a. >> because you were recruited, right? Because they saw a video of you. >> Somebody saw a video of me talking about. fighting a Norwegian salmon farm uh in. our area. And they were like, "That guy. seems well spoken. Maybe we should go. talk to him." And they came to my house. and they said that we should run for US. Senate. And my wife and I were like, "That's the most insane thing we've ever. heard. Please get out of our house." Uh.

and they came back a few days later with. more of like a fleshed out plan. And at. that point, we're like, "Oh my god." I. mean, it's still insane, [gasps]. but there's something to it. And for us, we've we've spent a long time being very. engaged politically at the local level. Uh, and I think both of us are are. deeply committed to building a. significantly better future. Um, and. this was an opportunity to do something. about it on a scale that, you know, is. just frankly hard to comprehend. Still.

hard to comprehend. >> to be entirely honest. I mean, I'm I. still live in Sullivan, Maine. I still. live in my small house and across the. street from the boat launch. So, my. business partner is still like in the. yard this week getting the boats ready. and cuz it's this time of year we're. putting boats in the water and getting. the oysters up. So, like that's all. still happening while all this other. stuff is happening too. So, it's a. strange. disconnect I guess. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and it brings me to this. like idea that you've been running as. this anti-establishment candidate, but.

we've talked a little bit about the. Republican money that's going to be. dropping on you, but there's also the. Democratic party's money and their. organizing power to win this campaign. Do you think that hurts your message of. being an outsider? >> No, I think it's very clear to everyone. uh just how not the establishment. candidate I I am or have been. Um, you. know, the there's without question the. Democratic party wants to retake the. Senate. Uh, more than anything else, and.

almost no map that has a Democratic. Senate, uh, it does not include flipping. the state of Maine. We have to flip the. state of Maine. We have to get rid of. Susan Collins for a whole myriad of. reasons, not just flipping the Senate. So, they're going to come and help us. out. The thing that's important to know. is. we welcome their support in like the for. like with the money because we're going. to be up against I mean the NRSC's. already put aside almost $50 million.

>> That's the number I heard. Yeah. >> For this race. That's insane. Also, by. the way, could you imagine investing $50. million in the state of Maine? Again, anything be a different looking state. The fact that they're just going to blow. it on like negative TV ads is just shows. how gross and. insanely uh flawed the system that we. have is around politics. But the we'll. take their help cuz we're going to need. it on that front. But what we're not. going to take is like frankly direction. or advice on what we're doing because we. just what we've built is ours and we.

have we have 15,000 active volunteers in. the state of Maine and we have more. signing up every single day. Um, and a. lot of people who were supposed to be. really really good at politics, who were. the act the the experts, they all said. that all this was entirely impossible. And we didn't just prove them wrong, but. we did so in rather spectacular fashion. And we're just going to keep doing that. I mean, >> you know, you had said that um, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer had.

not really reached out to you until um, Janet Mill sort of dropped out. and. you've had a conversation with him. recently. Did you tell him that? Did you. say, "Hey, bud, stay out of my. business.". >> No, I said, "Look, we we are happy to. work together uh to beat Susan Collins.". I mean, nothing brings people together. like wanting to beat Susan Collins. That's it's a it's a very unifying. thing. Um the conversation was short. We. did not get into details. He said, "Congratulations." I said, "Thank you. very much." He said, "The priority is to.

beat Collins." I said, "That's my. priority, too. and however we can work. together to do it effectively is what. I'm willing I mean that's what I want. >> Yeah. I mean I've I've watched you on. the campaign trail. >> and one of the main messages that you. have though is not to put too fine a. point on it but you know f the. establishment. >> Yeah. >> And and I guess do you think Schumer. should be replaced as leader then? I. mean are you. >> Yeah. I I don't I I I I my criticisms.

remain exactly the same as they were. last Wednesday. Uh I do think that the. that leadership in the Democratic party. has been has really failed the moment. I. don't think I mean for a bunch of. different reasons. I do think that. [gasps]. uh I do think that Senator Schumer has. has not really risen to the occasion and. I think we do need new leadership uh in. the party without question. La last. question on this um and it is about. Susan Collins. As you know, she has been.

there since the 90s. She has been a very. deaf um sort of fundraiser and. campaigner in the state of Maine. I. mean, what do you give your chances. really? >> Very high. Extremely high actually. I. one polling bears that out. Now, I am a. Democrat in Maine, so I'm wary of. polling. There's no question about it. But there is a consistency to it, which. is nice. um. >> because I think there was another. candidate um that was trying to run. against her. She was up in the polling. and.

>> I think a couple. >> I think a couple things have changed. One, I think polling methodology has. changed significantly since 2020. Um. there and and Maine has always been. notoriously a hard state to poll uh. because we have an aging population. There are a lot of people that still use. landlines. There are a lot of people. that still like do mail. So there are. but a lot of the a lot of the more. recent polling takes all that into into. account, which it didn't used to. But. there's a deeper change and I think it's. it's a couple things. First and. foremost, and people often forget this, 2020,

Collins had already voted for Brett. Kavanaaugh, but Row had not been. overturned. And Collins's real pitch for. a long time was like Olympia Snow. She. tried to make herself look like Olympia. Snow actually was this, by the way, but. Collins has tried to make herself look. like this moderate Republican who will. buck her party. a a woman senator from. Maine who is pro-choice, who is who who. who supports reproductive rights.

[snorts]. That fiction could still exist in 2020. cuz row was still in place. Row was no. longer in place. I mean, she said it was. settled law. She [clears throat] said it. was never going to change, which is why. she voted for Brett Kavanaaugh. Well, at. this point, it has changed because of. her vote for Brett Kavanaaugh. So either. she was lying or she completely. misunderstood what was happening. Either. way, that doesn't show like a really. solid uh I don't know political acumen. Uh and and I think in many ways that I.

mean that alone is relatively. disqualifying not just because of the. implications but because of the frankly. just incompetence of it. Then there's. the element where at this point I don't. think you could come up with a better. avatar for the longerving self-enriching. establishment politician than Susan. Collins who raises an immense amount of. money outside of the state of Maine who. takes an immense amount of money from. Apac. She takes an immense amount of. money from special interest groups and.

fossil fuel companies and she has a very. high performing stock portfolio. uh you. know I mean these I think a lot of. people in Maine look at that and are. like yeah I don't think that that is. actually the politics I want. representing me. >> I want to um take a bit of a step back. uh and talk a little bit about you um. because I think for many people across. the country you're an unknown quantity. Um you're I don't know. >> I'm a random guy. I'm a random oyster.

farmer from Sullivan Maine. So yeah. So, you're pitching yourself as a. workingclass man. You're a firearm. instructor, a gun owner. >> Yep. >> Um, in your campaign launch video, you're wearing a dirty hoodie. You're. shucking oysters. You're swinging a. kettle bell. You're chopping wood. >> What kind of masculinity are you trying. to evoke with that? >> A healthy one. uh one in which like it's. it is entirely fine to be a.

weightlifting, kettle bell swinging, gun-owning kind of like rugged guy. You. can do all of that and see see your. strengths or see your privilege as. things that are be to be used. specifically to like uplift and help. other people, not to like impose on. them. I think right now especially there. are a lot of young men in our society. who are being dragged into this kind of. like really dangerous misogynistic like. manosphere. I I just watched Louis the. Rose documentary the other night. Uh.

it's horrifying sadly for me having. spent like having spent my life as an. angsty [clears throat] young man and. then being in in the in the service in. the Marine Corps in the army in the. infantry in both very very masculine. spaces. Um, like I have seen that kind. of toxic masculinity really attract a. lot of a lot of young men and. a lot of it comes from the fact that I. think that there are a lot of men who. are deeply deeply insecure.

who whether it's because of trauma, whether it's because society has told. them they're supposed to be a certain. level of successful and they aren't. that. And so then they feel like they've. failed or that society has somehow. failed them. And then they're given this. story that the only way to make that up. is to like impose on other people. To. uplift yourself, you have to put others. down, which I think is nonsense. I think that. just results in you being alone.

>> Why have Democrats struggled so much. with with men lately? Uh, honestly, I think it's because. they've left behind working the like the. working class. And and hear me out here. There was a time where like. people who like worked for a living, use. their hands, were very very close to the. Democratic party uh through the labor. movement, through just kind of general. policies. The Democratic Party was was.

once the policy that really represented. working folks. And there is this vision. of masculinity in America which has a. lot to do with that exact thing, right? Like kind of working, building, creating. Um, there are elements of that. that I think are very positive. I do not. believe in this whole like white working. class that like to that the working. class is just a bunch of rugged dudes. and hard hats. That's not the working. Working class is significantly bigger. than that. And it's very multicultural, multi-gendered, multi-racial, the whole. 90 yards. But there is an element in our. society that we view, you know, we view.

like kind of working-class people like. that. And I think as a Democratic party. has for a while now kind of. begun to look like the party of like. liberal elites. There's just an element. >> You don't have to whisper it. [laughter]. >> Sorry, I'm in New York. Um, but it it. looks like this party and sounds like. and and in some ways kind of did become. this party of sort of like Ivy League. schools and elite that like when you. when that was left behind.

>> I mean the data shows it. Um yeah. >> Yeah. I mean the strength of the. Democratic party is in cities. It's. among the educated. Um it's among women. actually. >> Um and I think a lot of that came. because uh the Democratic Party uh. abandoned organized labor. Quite frankly, >> is that what you were tapping into when. you did your thing? >> Yeah. I mean, like, it wasn't Yes. I. mean, but but I'll be hon Not not. performatively. This is just my life. I. mean, I do swing kettle bells. I lift. weights. I work on the ocean with my. hands. I shoot guns. Like, it's by Yeah. Like, that's a it's all there's nothing.

performative about it. It's it's just. kind of my existence. So yeah, I think. there's a [snorts] I want us to be able. to reconnect with a healthier version of. masculinity. One that is rooted in hard work and. building things. >> You're not a looks maxer. >> Uh definitely not a looks maxer. I'm not. going to smack myself in the face with. hammers cuz that seems to be like. possibly the dumbest thing a human being. could ever do. But you know that's just. me. One of the things that I have heard. debated about you quite a bit is your.

working class roots because. >> you know you grew up in a small town. >> Yep. >> Didn't graduate college, became a. bartender. >> Y. >> but also your father was an attorney. Y. >> your grandfather was a Cornell educated. architect. Quite quite well known. You. went to private schools. So. >> kind of well the private school thing I. would just like to so I. okay uh so in eighth so I grew up in. Sullivan mine went to Mountain View uh.

elementary school which is very small I. think my graduating I think we had like. 12 kids or something 12 to 14 it was. tiny and my mom really really wanted my. brother and I to get like a high quality. education and this place in Connecticut. Hodgekus gave us a really good financial. aid package So my mom was like, "All. right, that's where you're going." I and. I did not want to go at all cuz I didn't. want to leave Maine. Um so I got sent. down there and there was a moment which.

I will never forget and it was the. moment I knew that I had to leave this. place. I went down to Hodkus and they. had like you know monthly or weekly uh I. think called a chapel or something like. that and people you know graduates or. you know people would always come and. give speech motivational speeches and. whatnot. The first one I went to, some. guy came, some business magnate type, uh, and was trying to kind of inculcate. in everyone like the concept of work. ethic. And at some point, he was just. like, "Who in here's had a job?" And I.

put my hand up and I was the only kid in. the room that put his hand up. And I. realized that it wasn't a real question. It was a rhetorical question because of. course none of these kids had held jobs. And I then felt really embarrassed cuz. I'm like 13. And like I realized, oh my. god, like I'm like there are a lot of. people here who are like super wealthy. and like I'm [clears throat] not and my. family's not and like it's and like we. were fine for the record. I grew up. solidly middle class without question. Um but like worked.

for I mean all the way I worked through. high school. I buy bag groceries. I did. landscaping. Worked for the Appalachian. Mountain Club on the professional trail. crew for two years before I joined the. Marine Corps. And so like there was just. this I don't know this this real sense. of. >> like I was very out of place. So I uh I. got myself kicked out by Christmas. I. lasted I was at Hodkas for like 3 months. and then I went back to Maine and I went. to John Baps which is up in Bangor which. was far more my speed. Lots of lots of. just normal Maine kids who were more of.

my kind of world. >> I mean how do you think about class? Um, is working class how you grew up or how. you live now? Like how do you because. you grew up, you're you're describing it. as solidly middle class. >> Um, >> I think the difference today. >> and you make your, you know, your pitch. is I'm of the working class now. I work. with my hands. >> Yeah. And I am I mean I work with my. hands. I don't make a lot of money. Uh, my wife and I work incredibly hard. Uh, and we probably make like $60,000 a year. combined. We don't have money left over.

We're not saving for retirement, I'll. tell you that. Um, I was lucky. I got to. buy my house in 2017 and I could not. afford my house today. My my house has. gone up almost three times in value. But. my. >> family money. >> the was that. >> do you have family money? >> My my father gave me the uh the mortgage. except of course because he's my dad and. he's an attorney. He gave me a. significantly higher interest rate than. the bank would have cuz. >> he's a lawyer. Uh but um but it was but. I als I had I could have used a VA home.

loan if I had wanted to, but at that. point it was just easier to do it that. way. Um and and I mean I like I just but. to be fair like I could never get that. today. Uh cuz I can't afford the monthly. I can't afford the mortgage if it was. three times what it is. My my income. hasn't gone up three times. [sighs and gasps]. >> And my uh so I was lucky to get it then. And so we're like we my wife and I very. much recognize the life we've been able. to to build has come from a lot of like.

luck and but on top of that is also my. VA healthcare and my VA pension which. that really is kind of like the that's. the baseline that really allows all this. to happen. Um, if it wasn't for the VA. healthcare thing, I wouldn't have had. the freedom to start a business to move. back to my hometown, figure out I mean, I was flat. I moved back to Maine in. 2016 from DC, and I had I was broke. broke. I was living at my mom's house.

Uh, cuz I had spent a number of years. very depressed, which we can get to. about after my combat service. But, um, you know, I when it comes to like middle. class, working class, I will be very. upfront. I think this to this day and. age [sighs]. you are working class if you work and. you make your money from work and wages. Uh like the the world of wealth. disparity has become so intense that. there are just so many people now who. are sitting on so much money who do not.

work. They make money off their. investments. They make money off of. their wealth. And and I know it's an. expansive definition of working class, but I think you need to have an. expansive definition of working class. when we have the most expansive margin. of wealth inequality in the history of. the country. In in the state of Maine, almost everybody's working class. Everybody works. >> Everybody works. Everybody struggles. Everybody has like if the hospital. closes and that really impacts you, you're probably a working-class person. If you're really rich, you don't. It.

doesn't matter where the hospital is. You probably can go wherever you want. for healthcare. You know, it's. interesting. I'm listening to you and. I'm and on the one hand, it makes. political sense to say the working class. is this very expansive group that anyone. who gets a W2 and has to pay taxes off a. salary. >> Uh which is different than if you're. making it off your investments is. working class, right? Um and that's it's. you get a different kind of hit as we. all know just having been in tax season. >> Um by the same token, it's it's a it's a.

strange kind of idea of what working. class is. I know people who really. consider themselves working class, who. grew up, you know, with a lot of. struggle. >> Yeah. >> And that feels probably to them like. that's too expansive um a definition. >> I I mean I I spend a lot of time around. labor unions. I spend a lot of time. around community groups that focus on I. mean I everybody seems these days. everybody seems to subscribe to the same. definition because it is so substantial.

And to me, that's it is expansive, but I. think it's also pretty I think it's the. most accurate definition of what we're. seeing right now. And and I look, I'll. be very upfront. I get a chuckle out of. the fact that like a lot of folks in. this political system who come from. incredible amounts of privilege and. wealth, they're the first ones to be. like, "Are you really working class? Are. are you are you are you really like, oh, I don't know. You're just out there not. making a lot of money and working on the. ocean." But uh your dad was a small town.

attorney. Does that mean that like you. can't actually represent working people? I honestly think it's a tool. It's a. political weapon that throughout history. has been deployed against people whose. primary political goal is to improve the. lives of working folks around them. It's. always to call into question like their. their bonafites. [clears throat]. >> Well, to be clear, I'm asking you. because I'm interested in hearing how. you describe yourself. Well, I just. Yeah. to be clear just to understand how. you. >> you know tell your own story and also.

how you view what your coalition is. Um. because obviously you're pitching. yourself to the working class and. >> yeah I mean which is also I think we're. winning by spectacular margins cuz in a. state like Maine everybody's like yeah. that makes perfect sense to me and we we. all do we all do feel very much that us. and our neighbors in our communities. we're all kind of suffering the same. way. >> So after high school. >> Yep. You joined the Marines at 19. >> Yep. >> 19. Yeah. 19. >> And I want to ask you about your tours.

in the Middle East. Um, you went to Iraq. in 2005. Is that right? Yeah. I mean, we. were there at the same time. I covered. Iraq from 2002, uh, before the invasion. to 2010. >> Why did you want to serve? Because you. were anti-war. Um, you were out. protesting the conflict. I just saw this. post about you actually in Maine kind of. protesting George W. Bush. I dragged out. of a Bush rally in I think November, December of O2. >> I want to thank the people who take time. who work hard to make sure that the.

democracy is strong. >> Yeah. So, it's a strange thing to sign. up. >> I see I everybody says that, but like it. never was for me. I mean like one I. wanted to be a soldier since I was about. two. I mean, I was singing the Marines. hymn [clears throat] as like I think I. was like four or five when I first. memorized it. Uh, and I don't know why. that is. Like I was my I don't come from. like I mean I we have a long lineage of. military service in my family, but like. my dad wasn't in the service. My parents.

were not enthused about my joining of. the of the of the Marine Corps. >> Um. I but I always had an attraction to I. think service, but I also had an. attraction to adventure. And you know in. our society. we do very much sell militarism and war. in this very romantic fashion about like. about adventure and excitement. And then. there's also and I think you can. probably understand this too. There is. this weird attraction when everyone.

tells you that everyone tells you that. the only way you could ever experience. it is to be there. M. >> that it's a thing that is so unique and. so its own thing that no one could ever. get it unless you had seen it. And I. think for me there was an element of. curiosity to that where it's like well I. mean like what am I what is it then? And. and and you know I grew up reading. military history books and I was into. Civil War reenacting and I was like very.

it's like a little military nerd. Um, and but I also in high school became. pretty critical of certain elements of I. think American foreign policy. Certainly. when the war in Iraq was kicking off, I. was like, "This seems like a deeply. stupid idea.". >> Yeah. I mean, you had an image of you in. high school holding up a sign saying. free Kosovo, Cheschna, Kashmir, Palestine, Kurdistan, and Tibet. That's. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I got I got really into Irish. politics when I was in high school. Uh, which introduced me to, I think, some. sort of uh like a Yeah. connection to.

like national liberation struggles and. seeing people is like seeing the world. through that lens. Um, at the exact same. time though, I was still like a young. man of the United States and I still. I was very patriotic. And so there was a to me the two things. never and you know I'll be I met a lot. of guys in the Marine Corps that thought. that the war was dumb and were there. >> you know but they were there cuz the. it's a like the attraction is more to.

like the camaraderie and the kind of. whole like I don't know the whole like. the infantry combat unit thing. It's. it's it's less about like why you're. doing it. Uh, in my experience, I I. don't I I I never met anybody I don't. have many friends in the Marine Corps. who when we were serving, they're like, "Yeah, I'm definitely here to like fight. for George Bush and like and do. whatever." No, no. I mean, they're there. for like cuz you joined the infantry. You're there cuz you were a young angsty. man and you like joined up and you.

wanted to go have an adventure and you. wanted to fight. I mean, that's why. that's what the infantry primarily is. Can you tell me um [snorts] with that in. mind in your head, that sort of romantic. vision of what it was, what you felt. when you first arrived in Iraq, because. you were based in what was called um. then the Sunni Triangle. >> Yeah. >> Very high conflict area. Um. >> yeah, when we first got there, it wasn't. so bad. So we January, February, March. were pretty mellow. Uh we did the. election late January first that first. Iraqi election January of05. Somebody.

shot an RPG at us, but like it didn't go. off. And then on April 2nd, 2005, there was a. large uh combined assault, multiple. suicide car bombs, an immense amount of. indirect fire, rockets, mortars, the. whole nine yards. And that was like my. first actual interaction with like. combat combat. Um the rest of that. deployment was fairly mellow. Summer. came, a lot of IEDs, we got blown up a.

bunch. um couple serious incidents with. my with my my my platoon and took some. casualties, but for the most part it. wasn't like uh it wasn't like. continuous. >> Um and yeah, and then that deployment. ended Janu or August of of '05. We came. home for like four and a half five. months. Someone went to machine gun. leadership course. and then we promptly went to Rammani for. '06 and that was like a totally. different.

>> the middle of the civil war. >> Yeah. And that was Romani in ' 06 was a. >> the worst of the worst. >> and we were at the government center. >> uh in downtown Romani and we just lived. there. Uh you know everybody else came. and rotated through and you know. journalists would come and the brass. would come and they'd all come down. because they all wanted to see the. government center cuz that's like where. all the fighting was and like we were. like we just we lived there like just. where eight months no days off. Didn't. have a single day off for eight months. It was exhausting. Uh and it was and it.

was very very violent. I mean, you know, we just like regular contact almost. every day. So, >> what do you remember about how you felt. being part of that war? Because. it's just interesting to me considering. where you came from to suddenly find. yourself as part of an occupying army in. the Middle East, no less. I'm just wondering how you sort of made. sense of the mission because you wrote. to your mom at the time the United.

States is doing an amazing thing here. It took me coming here to realize that. don't think we are somewhere we. shouldn't be. >> Yeah. I mean I remember in 05. we were actually engaging in like some. building projects. >> We were like we're helping turn the. water back on. We were like there it. felt I I actually I mean I was also 20. I was still a kid so I get and you need. to make all this stuff mean something, right? like you you want to be part of. something good. And so as I saw like. what seemed like doing good things.

>> for a little bit for a little bit in. 2005 I I did I did believe that we were. doing something good. Um towards the end. of deployment I started to kind of. return to my more cynical kind of state. on the whole thing. Mostly just cuz I. saw like all the contractors and all the. like we spending so much money like. somebody was clearly getting very rich. but it wasn't us. But then yeah, 2006. comes in Ramani and I mean at that point. I would I became very. um. well I don't even know if I was you know.

let me rephrase at the time I did I. didn't really think about it much. I. mean when you're in it and you're just. doing the work and every day is a slog. and your friends. >> you're not reflecting. >> No. No. I mean you might spend a lot of. time being bitter [laughter] because you. haven't slept in 3 days and some colonel. just came down and told you that like. your boots were dirty. Like there's a. lot of being angry at everything, but uh. but there is a but like but you're still. you're part of your unit. You're around. the guys that you you love and that you. care about and you're all kind of in it.

together. >> Uh and there is a deep sense I would say. of like camaraderie and and community. that you get [clears throat] from that. Um that I mean I certainly got from it. >> That period I imagine was really hard. Um just. >> looking back on it. >> Yeah. [gasps] and you, you know, have. been diagnosed with PTSD. You've talked. about that. When you look back now, when do you think you started to suffer. from that? Because I was also diagnosed.

from PTS uh with PTSD. And for me, you. know, I can remember exactly what. happened and. that caused the sort of cascade. What was it for you? [snorts]. It was It was 2006 and it wasn't a. specific moment. I'll just be I I I I. think. [sighs]. that's not actually true. [gasps].

Oh, man. >> I'm sorry. >> No, it's okay. Um, in 2005, my vehicle got hit by an IED. outside of place called Karma, north uh. north of Fallujah. And uh. we uh it was myself and my best friend. was in the back of the truck. Uh. [clears throat] another Marine, another. Marine was driving and yeah, we drove.

over an IED, blew the truck up. I got. knocked unconscious. Um, I come to whole front of the truck. is ripped off. Um, I like I thought we. had engine trouble. I was all like. discombobulated. [snorts]. I ran around to the back of the truck. and there's my friend. Uh, you know, um, he's alive, but a piece of shrapnel has. like come up under his helmet and ripped. a lot of his uh his head off. [gasps]. And uh, you know, I'm 20 and this guy's.

my best friend. We went to infantry. school together. We came to the fleet. together. We were like, we were thick as. thieves, real close. And I I just. remember and I was Yeah, I was a combat. lifesaver. So, like I got this training. on like how to But they never told me. what to do when you're like looking at. brains. >> And I remember standing there being like. I don't know what the to do. Uh. like and this is my best friend. And I'm. like and I I'm supposed to save him, but. I like I don't I have no idea how to. even do that. Um and then luckily this. guy uh Doc Huey um spectacular.

spectacular Navy corman comes running up. and starts immediately going to work and. and saves saves his life. Um and he. survives uh but but has some pretty. significant it was a significant head. wound [gasps]. and you know it like. it happened. I was of course distraught. because he was my best friend and I'm a. kid and you know like you're and. >> it's scary. >> It's very scary. And then we also like. came under fire. So like all this is. happening and we're there's also a.

gunfight going on. So then I got to go. like get in the gunfight for a while and. we we get the vehicle back. We drop him. off at the medical station and and and. then like I'm in the back of the truck. just like cleaning the blood out uh and. like mopping it up and I just remember. there was a moment and they were like, "Well, we got to go back on patrol in. like 3 hours." And you're just like, "Yep." So there was a there was like a. hardening at that point for me where I.

was like, you don't actually get to do. this. You you don't get to engage with. it because if you do, you're going to be. worthless and you can't be worthless out. here. The whole point of this is like to. be effective at your job. You're not. going to let down your fellow Marines. [gasps]. And I realize looking back on it now, like that was cuz I saw frankly worse. things after that. There was much more. horrific violence. I saw people in in. far worse physical I mean far more death. awful stuff.

But like that was that was like the. first time it happened to me. And I. think you know we got back from that. deployment and you know young Marines we. all drink a lot. We all party a lot. You. know high-risisk behavior is pretty. standard for young Marines. Um, but when. I got back from my Romani deployment in. '06, in between my second and third. deployments, that was when I know that I. was absolutely self-medicating and. drinking heavily, really not wanting to.

engage with like feelings and emotions, becoming very emotionally distant. Um, I. had like a girlfriend, relationship. totally fell apart cuz I was just a. wreck of a human being. Sadly, that kind. of remained sort of the case for a while. after that, not being a very uh. emotionally connected human being. And. uh but I think it all it all starts back. then. >> You end up serving quite a few more. tours. You go to Afghanistan and then in.

2018, you go as a military contractor. Yeah. >> To Afghanistan. >> Yeah. For 6 [laughter] months. Didn't. last very long. I mean, how had your. views at that point evolved from that. from that first letter that you wrote. home to your mom to then? >> I mean, I it it is in entirely they. invol they they had changed into. something else entirely different. When. I went back in 2018, I didn't believe in any of it. I went. back in 2018 because I was broke and. lost and I had no idea what to do with.

myself and my skills. Um because all I. all I'd ever really done was carry guns. for a living. And and my friend of mine. was just like, "Hey man, uh I'm on a. contract to Cobble. We don't do. anything. All we do is lift weights. The. ambassador doesn't really go anywhere, so we don't really have to do much. driving around." Uh he's like, "The. pay's pretty good. It's not bad." M. >> so I went over for 6 months and at that. point whatever whatever disillusionment. was became something much deeper because.

I'm in Kbble and I'm like seeing it from. the I'm like at the embassy and seeing. it from the high side and I was like oh. my god 7 years 7 years I haven't been in. this country and no new ideas. and we're out there dropping bombs on. people's houses. There are special. operations units kicking in people's. doors in the middle of the night. It's. all the violence is still happening and. nobody down here has an inkling of what. to do or what we're even attempting to. do. And so I uh quit,

moved back to Sullivan, bought a 19T. seaway skiff, started farming oysters, and decided I never wanted to look back. and I wanted to get as far away from all. of it as humanly possible. >> When you look back at that, do you feel. angry that you were part of that. violence? Do you feel do you regret that. you were part of that violence? >> I Yeah, I have a complicated. relationship with it because I I I am. still proud of being a Marine. I'm still. I and look and I am very proud of like. my service and the service of the guys.

that fought next to me. I mean, we we we. tried our best. We truly did. Uh and. but it doesn't matter if you try your. best inside of a flawed policy and a. flawed system. It's flawed from the top. down. It's bound to fail. It's bound to. bring an immense amount of violence upon. people who in no way, shape or form are. deserving it of it because I mean we. destroyed Iraq and we destroyed. Afghanistan and all the suffering, all. the killing, all the dying, all the. displacement, all of it was was we we.

brought that we the United States did. that and it is a. and that I'm ashamed of. Um, the anger that I feel is for the people. that sent me. who are frankly still the same people. who are sending people off right now to. go but be in harm's way so we can start. and have the stupid war with Iran. I.

mean, Susan Collins voted to send me to. Iraq and she's also there to help Donald. Trump continue this absolutely insane. conflict in the Straits of Hormuz. So. it's a it's the same people and I and. that is like if I have any anger, it is. reserved for like the political system. itself and and the people in it who view. war not as like a thing that has a human. toll, but they view war as like a. political game, something that they can. use.

>> Do you see yourself as anti-war now? Not. the war with Iran, but just. >> Yes, in general. Absolutely. >> In general. >> Yeah, I do. Um, I'm not a pacifist, but. I I am. but I I am essentially anti-war. And I. think the way that we, the United. States, wages war, I mean, really going. it's I I'm I'm pretty critical of most. of our military engagements. I I fail to. see [snorts] many that made lives better. here for Americans. There are a lot of. examples of it being good for. multinational business interests. There. are a lot of examples of it being good. for people in places of political power.

Um, rarely good for the people who have. to go fight and die. and. rarely good for like the American people. who have to pay for this nonsense and. deal with the repercussions of it. Meanwhile, you know, Rathon executives. got a get a yacht. People make a lot of. money off of this thing. >> You know, it's interesting um. hearing you talk like that. I mean, there are some on the right who have. very similar views. >> Yeah.

>> I mean, how do you think about that? Do. you think that there's like a natural. alliance there perhaps or is there. >> I don't know if there's an alliance. I. but I like I I think it's just a. reflection of the fact that it's hard. not to come to that conclusion these. days. I mean the the forever wars that. we have been in now really since 2001. I. mean what good has it done us? Your. politics do not have to remotely align. with mine to still like see that very. clear reality which is I think what. we're seeing. I want to come back to.

something um that we mentioned at the. top which is um something else that. happened during your time in the Middle. East and that is of course that you got. a tattoo. Um. >> well that wasn't that was in Croatia. >> That was in Croatia but it was during. this period then when you were. >> in 2007 right and it resembles Nazi. insignia. >> Yeah it's a skull and crossbones. I like. for the I just want to I got a skull and. crossbones with a bunch of other Marines. in a tattoo parlor in Croatia because. skull and crossbones are things that. Marines get. Uh and then I had it for 17.

years and I took my shirt off. I was out. in public. I took pictures with it. I. went through two security clearances. where I got screened for gang and hate. tattoos and it never once came up on a. screening. Um, yeah. So that was that's. what I I had a skull and crossbones on. my chest for 17 years until after the. campaign started and then the uh the you. know the establishment candidate got in. the race and suddenly they drop all this.

opposition research and part of it is. that Graham Platner has like this this. like tattoo with white supremacist ties. or Nazi ties and at that point I took a. look at the things I'm like well I don't. want something that has that kind of. connotation on my body and so I promptly. got They cover it up. >> Did other people get the same tattoo? >> Yeah. Yeah. Other guys in my unit. Yeah. >> You know, I I mean, you say it's. opposition research. That may well be. true, but ultimately it is hard for. voters to know what the reality of why.

you got that is. >> It doesn't seem to be the case for. people in Maine. I mean, I've I've. talked about this ad nauseium and uh. >> I mean, have you made outreach to Jewish. voters? And. >> I mean, how have they responded? >> Half of my family is Jewish. I I in. fact, the video in which the tattoo was. displayed, which was the video that was. shared around, was at my brother's. wedding to my Jewish sister-in-law with. her whole extended Jewish family where I.

was taking my shirt off and dancing. If. I thought I had something that was this. obvious like anti-semitic thing, I would. not have done that cuz that would be. utterly insane. Yeah. Yeah. No, I we do. a lot of I mean to be honest like we we. have we have I have a lot of close. supporters who are in the Jewish. community in Maine. Um primarily because. I've I've been close with people in the. Jewish community in Maine my entire. life. >> Does it make you concerned about who you. engage with? Because you know obviously. this issue is very sensitive for many.

voters as you know. I recently. interviewed Tucker Carlson. He told me. he was interested in meeting you. >> I saw that. I've been hearing about it. ever since. Um, I mean, you told. independent journalist David Sarata that. you're weighing talking to him. >> Yep. >> I mean, do you what are you weighing? Do. you think Tucker Carlson's an. anti-semite? Are you worried that by. going on to his show because this is. >> this is still part of the conversation. that this could lend itself to. >> Oh, I'm not worried about that part. I.

mean, >> you know, people tagging you with with. the way that they might. >> Look, I'm Look, I'm not an anti-semite. I never have been. I've been very. dedicated actually. >> Do you think Carlson's an anti-semite? >> Uh I do not know enough about the band. to know and I but I will say I am not a. fan of his form of like right-wing kind. of uh uh there's a lot of like I think. unhealthy nationalism and xenophobia in. there and that's I don't think a helpful. thing. What I'm weighing is the fact. that I and I often talk about on the.

campaign trail. I do think it's. necessary to have conversations with. people we disagree with, especially. these days. I think if we always just. stay in these kind of ideologically pure. spaces, we're just never going to talk. to anybody. And I firmly believe in the. need to find common ground and to and to. rebuild like communities and. relationships in which the average. person actually has like almost. everything in common when it comes to. material needs. But I at the exact same. time I say that I also don't want to.

elevate. hateful or or I mean frankly any kind of. thing that I that I personally view as. being dangerous and and that's a that is. a that's a tough needle to thread is. because in order especially with. somebody like Carlson who has such a. huge reach. I mean I'll [snorts] be very. honest a lot of the guys I served with. big Tucker Carlson fans. M. >> um and I want to be able to engage those. kind of people with my kind of politics. and and my my answer on these things.

that it isn't it isn't immigrants who. you need to be afraid of. It's [snorts]. it's and that's not why your life is. hard. >> So that's a yes, you would go. I guess. >> it's Oh, no. I I we we I I still do not. know. I'll be honest. I have not uh I. bounce back and forth on this one all. the time. I also want to bring up something else. There are controversial statements also. on social media. You posted over 1,800. comments under the username P Hustle.

from 2009 to November 2021. and some of them are objectively. concerning. Um, you said Royal Mayors. are racist and stupid. You said that. sexual assault victims should take. responsibility for themselves. >> This all came out in the national press. >> Yeah. Why didn't you disclose this stuff. first? >> I mean, we did. We We released all of. the comments. I mean, when when people. came to us, they were like, "Oh, we've. got these very we've got a couple little.

ones." Uh, and we were like, I mean, there's a lot more than a couple, so we. just put everything out there. So, >> you did delete them though before the. campaign launched. >> I deleted them a while ago. Like, I. haven't used Reddit in I think since. 2021. Um, and I don't I'll be honest. I. don't actually know when I when I did. delete everything. I uh. >> So, it wasn't because you were going to. run? >> No, no, no, no. I got like I just I I. stopped using the internet. I mean, which is I stopped using the internet. because I got happy. I mean I I I sat on.

the internet for for a number of years. getting in fights trying I mean quite. frankly uh in the parliament. [clears throat] of the times. posting um trying to trying to get a. rise out of people trying to get in. arguments because it you know brought me. some form of I don't know like serotonin. boost or something because truthfully I. was really really isolated and alone and. very angry and a lot of the worst. comments definitely come from the years. where I was in I like at my absolute.

worst, which really is between like 2012. and 2017. >> Um, 2018 is when I was actually like in. in a pretty dark place all in all. I. >> I just want to clarify something about. the Reddit comments. Can you walk me. through the timeline again? >> Yeah. >> So, you decided you were going to run. Did you worry about those old comments. immediately? I mean, when exactly did. you delete them? When did you decide to. release the others? Well, we we released. we we like just put everything out. because it was what is it the Wayback. Machine I think is what what got used um.

right after we got contacted by I think. it was CNN who was the first the first. outlet that reached out to us cuz they'd. found some and we were like there are. more um I mean because they're out I. mean it's I'm an elder millennial. I. grew up on the internet. I am well aware. that everything you post on the internet. is there forever. It's not like a. [laughter] It's not a It's not a thing. I don't know. Um, >> so you deleted them like in 2021, 2022. Is that. >> I actually I'll be honest. I don't know.

Uh I don't. >> But well before you were considering. running for office. >> Yeah. I mean I I didn't uh Yeah, I'm. trying to think of cuz [snorts] I. deleted my Reddit profile cuz I just. stopped using Reddit. So I But I I don't. know actually when I did that because it. I just I I hadn't used Reddit since I. think 21. So somewhere in those 5 years. between 21 and 2026, >> did the people who recruited you, did. you disclose it to them that this that. this was there? >> Oh, yeah. I was like, look, I mean, cuz. I mean I mean we talked about everything.

that I could have ever cuz you know this. we that's this is how politics is now. Even though I I'll be honest, I think. it's a pretty ridiculous way of. conducting politics, but this is how. politics is. So you have to go through. like everything you've ever done that. could be like portrayed as a bad thing. And uh and you know, one of the first. questions was, "Do you have social media. posts?" I'm like, "Oh, yeah, man." Like. I spent spent 18 years on or whatever 12. years on Reddit um and made a whole. bunch of comments. Uh cuz I did.

>> Can I ask you about something else? You. wrote in 2018 about armed resistance to. fascism. You said, quote, "An armed. working class is a requirement for. economic justice.". How do you think about that now? As a. student of history, uh it is difficult. for me to not see elements of that as. being like a reality, especially in. resistance to fascism. But we didn't. beat the Nazis with smiles. We we did we. did beat them with a war. Um it's I I.

don't think it's a very controversial. statement to tell you the truth. Hm. I. mean, I guess in the context of. political violence, some might see it as. um worrying. >> Well, to be fair, I was talking about it. as a private citizen with no visibility. and mostly just talking about what I. thought was a very clear historical uh. like reality. >> Um which I would, you know, I would say. it's still true. I mean again I mean. historically fascism has been beaten uh.

with with armed like resistance and. conflict. I mean World War II was mostly. us and the Russians and [laughter] using. you know. >> do you think there needs to be armed. resistance in this country? >> No. Good lord no. The way that we use. the term political violence right now in. our in our kind of current discourse. violence has absolutely no place. And I. don't think it moves us any closer to a. better or freer society. That's what I. think the organizing is for if I'm going. to be upfront. I mean, I think one of.

the reasons we actually see an explosion. of political violence today is because. we do not have more effective outlets. Like there are people who want to see. change. they want to see. And you know, for especially for folks who are kind of. um either ideologically more uh or just. mentally more uh attracted to using. violence that when there is no other. outlet, when there is no healthy place. to put that energy, I do think you see. an explosion of violence, which is kind. of what we're seeing right now. A lot of. people are angry about the system.

People are angry about the state of. things, but there isn't like a very. clear and healthy way to use it. And I. think that's one of the reasons why. building. organizing at the community level is. paramount for the future of our. political system. >> Um 2017, my mom and I went down to the. women's march in DC. So, and I remember. going there and being like, "Oh my god, look at all these people." like we're.

clearly going to we're going to resist. We're going to fight back. >> The hats. >> Nothing happened. >> because it was just mobilization. Mobilization is a tactic. Turning people. out into the streets, protests. That's. part of it. But there it needs to be. deeper. And I think one of the problems. is that we haven't had that in quite. some time outside the labor movement and. certain organizations and the civil. rights groups. I mean, they've kept the. flame alive, but [snorts] I think right. now that's the work we need to be doing. is tying into those skills and those. legacies of organizing and expanding.

them to everybody else to give a lot of. people who are feeling hopeless and. angry a place to come in and a place to. like put that frustration, that anger to. positive use, working with their. neighbors, building trust, building. relationships at the community level. I. I think that's without question that is. the only way we're going to effectively. resist the Trump administration, but. also the only way we're going to. effectively build power to I think. rebuild the American political system to. be more representative of the average.

American. >> And the way you've discussed this is. revolutionary. You you have talked about. wanting to completely break the system. as. >> now. We need a political revolution in. this country. I mean Bernie said it in. 2016. It was right then. he remains. right today. I mean, I think. structurally our political system at. this point, whether it's money, whether. it's the the way that we've the way that. our democratic systems have been kind of. subsumed by corporate power, we need to change the structures of how.

this thing works. We're going to talk. again and I'm interested in [music]. how you think about wielding power. because you've talked a lot about your. theory of power and you know what should. happen once you have it. Uh [music] but. that shall be for another time. >> Okay. >> Graham Platner, thank you very much. I. really appreciate your time today. >> Of course. Thank you. I appreciate. [music] it. It's great being here. >> On the interview, we speak to our guest. twice. So, a few days later, I [music].

spoke to Graham again about his vision. for American politics. >> Hey, >> how are you? >> Good. I went and it's Today's the first. day of early voting. >> Oh, exciting. >> So, I went and voted at the town office. So, >> what was it like to vote for yourself? >> Very weird. [laughter] Very weird. Deeply surreal. Not a not a not not a. thing that I ever Yeah. ever pictured. would happen. So, it's very strange. seeing your name on an actual ballot.

>> So, I want to talk to you about your. plans for the Senate um if you are. elected because it is, as you well know, very hard to get things done in the. Senate. Um and you've talked about. Bernie Sanders a lot and I think he's. someone who has moved the party on. ideology but not necessarily on. legislation. And you've exhorted voters in the past. to elect people who want to wield power.

And I just wondered what you think that. means. What what is the sort of. philosophy of Graham Platner? >> The philosophy is is that we don't have. things that most of the American people. want like universal health care, like a. foreign policy that isn't just based. around militarism. We don't have them. Not because we don't. know what they are or not because we. haven't been able to define them or even. write policy around them. We have them. because there hasn't been the political.

will to make it reality in the Senate. What we need is more numbers. We need. more people who are willing to vote for. things like universal healthcare. And. like there I' I've actually had a bit of. a there's always been like a frustrating. relationship with a lot of kind of the. pundit class over the course of this. campaign which is always this like well. we've never got it hasn't we haven't. been able to get say Medicare for all. and maybe that's be and so why do you.

think we can get it now? It's like well. we're definitely never going to get it. if we elect people who don't want to get. it. I mean, that's a that's kind of like. where we I I that seems fairly obvious. to me. And so, I think we need to very. much look at the United States Senate as. a place where we have to engage in a. power building process, which is going. to be electing more people who want to. advocate, vote for, but in many ways. also elevate the conversation around. these things. You know, I I kind of.

agree with you on Bernie. Bernie has. been able to change the narrative and. change ideology, but hasn't been able to. move votes. That's because he's one. vote. At this point, we need to add to that. We need more. >> I'm interested in this because I think. one of the critiques of Democrats has. always been um you know that they're. weak. Uh and that's from Democrats, right? Other Democrats are always. complaining that Democrats lose their. way, that they you know, they get power, they don't exercise it in the way that. they should, etc., etc. I I saw that you.

want to impeach members of the Supreme. Court. Is that what you mean by wielding. power, taking action that's concrete, that is aggressive? >> Yes, absolutely. I mean, that is a and. and by the way, I I didn't this is not. just like my opinion. I mean, a an accurate reading of American. history shows that this is the case. I'm. going to use the example of of FDR New. Deal programs in the Supreme Court. You. know, FDR implements a bunch of New Deal. programs. Supreme Court says a lot of.

these might be unconstitutional. We're. going to rule that they're. unconstitutional and we're going to shut. down the New Deal programs and progress. Then FDR, much to the chagrin of his own. party, I may add, threatens to pack the. court. Suddenly, overnight, no change to. the words and the policies. Everything. became constitutional. No longer came up. for a vote in front of the court. Power. is more than just the words on the page. Power is something that needs to be. wielded, used when you have it. It's.

just rooted in historical reality that. when you look at American history, when. you look at moments in which the nation. was in crisis and when large programs. were necessary, when things needed to be. protected or when new things needed to. be built, it wasn't enough to simply. stay within the norms of the of the of. of the institutions as they had been. built recently. you had to create new. forms of power. You had to use them. And.

it's amazing to me that that very clear. history has existed the whole time. But. I would say for the past well for the. recent few the recent past anyways. Um. the Democratic party has not had a. theory of power. The. >> I mean the Republicans have certainly. had a theory of power. >> Absolutely. Which is why we have lost. I. mean, [laughter] and like this is when. you when you when you run up against a. theory of power and you don't have one. of your own, you're going to lose every. single time. I think while Republicans. and I would say corporate conservatism.

has very much developed a theory of. power over the past 40 odd years, the. Democratic party developed a theory of. management and that is not sufficient. >> [snorts]. >> But isn't your theory of power simply. like the Republicans's theory of power, which is we will do the things that we. want to do um and that we need to do. regardless of whether the institutions. or the um sort of history and nicities.

allow us to do it or not. >> No, there's there there's one major. difference. Like right now, the Trump. administration breaks the law every. single day. The Trump administration. does not use funds. They've been. appropriated by Congress by law. The. Trump administration has started what I. would call an unconstitutional war uh. overseas in Iran. You know, there are. the Trump administration has been. sending ICE out to terrorize American. communities and murder American citizens.

with at this point no accountability. What I want to see is a creative use of. constitutional power. When I talk about. impeaching justices on the court, what. I'm saying is we merely need to hold the. court to the same ethics standards we. hold all other federal judges. I'm not. saying we should break the law. What I'm. actually saying is we should follow the. better law. The Senate could do this. The Senate has the power, the Congress. has the power to hold the court to.

ethics standards if it so chose to. I'm. curious as someone who wants to be part. of the Senate, how you view executive. power because one of the things that. we've seen obviously during this Trump. administration is a real coalesing. around executive power and in many ways. that has allowed uh the Trump. administration to really push the. boundaries of what it can do and. Republicans might say do exactly what. you're saying, remake the country um in.

the way that they want to see it remade. How do you see that relationship between. executive power and the power of the. Senate and Congress at large? >> I firmly believe that certainly over the. past 40 years, we have seen a. uh a. coalescing of power in the executive. branch that far outweighs what it was. supposed to be in the constitution. You. know, George I mean George W. Bush era.

unitary executive theory much of of. course which all comes out of the same. people who were in the Reagan White. House who were all actually the same. people who were in the Nixon White. House. Uh this is a pretty pretty clear. throughine through all of that. And and to be honest though, we have to. be clear that it wasn't merely. Republican presidencies. Executive power. was sometimes created among within an. executive pres or a Republican. presidency, but then it certainly wasn't. diminished or given up when a follow-on.

Democratic president was in place. >> I mean, Republicans would say President. Obama was the prime example of that. >> And I think that that's a that's an. accurate critique or it's a fair. critique. [snorts and gasps]. This nation was not set up to have a. king. That wasn't the point. This nation. was supposed to be a representative. democracy, a republic in which the House. and the Senate are supposed to be actual. actors in the governing of the nation.

We have seen that disappear for decades. now. And what I very much want to see. and one of the reasons I want to go to. the United States Senate is a Senate and. a House that reassert their power. uh. because what we have now I I mean I. don't think this is remotely in line. with how the nation was supposed to be. functioning which is one of the reasons. why it's not functioning but over time. we have just given power up to the. executive and we've given power up to. the judicial. in a completely unelected body uh which.

in many ways is not even open to any. input from the American people because. we have lifetime appointments to it and. I very much believe that structurally. these things need to. Yeah, you want term limits. >> Term limits in the Supreme Court. Absolutely. And and and and term limits. in the House and the Senate as well. But. we need to see structural shifts so we. can reassert. I mean, a big one, too, is. we need to have a new war powers act. that really pulls war powers back from. the executive um and does not allow for.

what we currently have, which is the. ability of the executive branch to begin. wars, claim that they aren't wars, and. then sometimes have them go on for years. and years without a declaration of war. By the way, I I had to suffer because of. that because I had to go fight in two of. those versions. Well, let me ask you. this because you've you brought up the. War Powers Act and and and conflict and. we obviously talked about that uh a lot. in our first uh conversation.

How should we deal with a hostile power. with nuclear ambitions? >> I think on foreign policy, we have to. redefine what it is we want. I mean, not. even just recently, but really since the. end of the Second World War, a lot of. American foreign policy has not been. around the elevation of the American. population, the average American, right? I mean, the war in Vietnam, I'm not. really sure what good that did uh for. the average person in this country. Um, many of America's interventions in Latin.

America, uh, they weren't really good. for the average American in this. country. They weren't good for workers. They weren't good for American families. They often are very good for corporate. interests, defense contractors, and. people in places of political power who. want to use war as a mechanism of. protecting their political power. >> So, let me though ask you again though, what do you do with a hostile power with. nuclear ambitions? Like, how do you. curtail an Iran? How do you curtail for. example Korea?

>> You engage in diplomacy like the JCPOA, which we had in place until the Trump. administration ripped it apart. I very. much think the Biden administration. should have brought it back. But that's. what you do. You engage in robust. diplomatic. activity. That's how you do it. You do. it as a mature nation that acts like. that acts like a country that is trying. to engage in a long-term project that is. going to to protect Americans, keep the.

world safe, and also keep us out of. military conflicts. The Trump. administration got rid of the JCPOA, which which then reset the stage. And. then now us and the Israelis seemingly. every couple years have this idea that. like we have to keep Iran from having a. nuclear weapon. So we go and bomb things. that we claimed just a year ago or less. than a year ago. We bombed to destroy. their nuclear weapons capability. You. can't just keep doing that and then.

expect to be taken seriously. Um, I I. want to pivot and um talk a little bit. about the race itself. Since we spoke, you dropped your first attack ad against. uh Susan Collins and in it you say she. is selling Maine out to the Epstein. class. I mean, it's an angry ad. >> We don't care that you are concerned. while we go broke as you sell us out to. the president and to the Epstein class. >> What are you channeling there? >> The anger of the average manor. People.

are angry. People are angry because they. are looking at a system that does not. represent their needs, their value or. their will at all. They are seeing this. country continue. I mean, the war in. Iran is a perfect example of this. We. have now spent $50 billion. $50 billion. in the war in Iran. A war that is. uniquely unpopular with the American. people. We're angry at a political.

system that doesn't reflect that in any. way, shape, or form and also seems to. have not one ounce of power to slow it. down. Look, things have gotten worse for. working people in the state of Maine in. the last 30 years. Things got harder. So, you know, one of. the things that you've said again about. being a New Deal Democrat, and the thing. that I understand about that period, it. is that it was about creating programs. and spending money. [sighs and gasps]. And I'm I'm just wondering, especially.

in the moment that we find ourselves. spending money from where? Um, >> well, where did the money for where the. where did the $50 billion these these. ide. [laughter]. are at a moment where. you know our debt is has ballooned. um.

spending is government spending is you. know many view it as out of control and. unsustainable. How are you going to find the money to. do these very ambitious things like. Medicare for all? These are all very. expensive things. >> So we just spent $50 billion in two. months in the war in Iran and I haven't. heard a single question of where it came. from. I am always amazed that this nation can. just expend billions, trillions of.

dollars on wars that enrich the. military-industrial complex, protect people in power, and we never. have to have a conversation about where. the money came from. But the moment you. say that Americans deserve to see. housing costs come down or energy costs. come down, the moment we have to talk. about health care, suddenly we have to. pull our pockets out and pretend like. we're poppers. I just take issue with. the framing. Uh primarily because we.

have taken on an immense amount of debt. specifically over the past 30 years. >> I guess I'm asking are people's taxes. going to have to go up? The answer is no. because we're going to go after the. money where it went. I mean, the reason. this nation isn't immense amount of. debt, and this is important to. understand, is because we created lots. of new public money, put it out into the. world where it went into a a speculative. financial system where it has now been. hoarded and invested in truly ridiculous. things for a long time. The debt that.

this nation holds, it holds it because. we made public funds. And we put them. out not into the real world, not into. programs that are going to uplift the. average American, not into small. businesses, not into small farms. No, we. put this money out in the form of fossil. fuel subsidies. We put it out in the. form of tax cuts for billionaires and. for corporations. We put it out into. massive amount of funding for the. American military-industrial complex. That's where the money has gone. The. reason we have such debt, but we also.

have essentially a crumbling society, is. because we have taken on that debt. merely to enrich the already wealthy. We. didn't take on that debt to create new. programs to elevate all of us as a. nation. I think this is really important. to understand. One of the reasons we're. going to we will never be able to pay. off our debt if we don't invest in. making America more productive. And the way that we make America more. productive is by uplifting everybody in.

it to give them the opportunity to. create and to produce and to consume. I. mean what's funny I people often talk. about this like it's some sort of. left-wing fantasy. What I'm talking. about is an actual functional market. What we have right now is a. non-functioning market because. essentially all the money every single. day, wealth and labor gets extracted out. of working people and hoarded more and. more and more in a part of the economy. that doesn't do anything. And we need to.

use the tax code to pull that money. back. Few a few last questions. Um, you. know, I was thinking about your. PTSD, uh, and our discussion around that. and I was thinking about your time in DC. before that and how you discussed it. being difficult and you being unhappy. [gasps] I've thought also a lot about. John Federman. When I interviewed him, he talked about his mental health. struggles that were brought on by the.

stroke. He talked about how lonely he. was in DC. And you know, you are an oyster farmer. You partly healed from your PTSD by. being out on the sea in Maine. Um, do you think this time will be. different? >> Oh, of course. Well, because I'd done no. healing back then. >> I hadn't gone through any of the. process. I mean, I came back and went. straight to college in Washington and. had done no therapy. Had I mean, really. had was was on my own in many ways and.

isolated. Hence why I was deeply unhappy. then. You know, now I'm going back down. there with not just an array of tools. because of years of therapy and years of. kind of dealing with stuff, but also a. community of people who who love me. deeply and who I love deeply. I've also. spent a lot of time recently developing. relationships with sitting senators, relationships that I hope will go far. beyond just the professional. Um because. I think it's important to go to a place.

and and to I want to be a functioning. part of it. I don't I'm not trying to go. to just be a pain in everyone's ass, which no offense to the senator from. Pennsylvania, but that does seem to be. his primary goal these days. Like I want. to go and create relationships and and. create a better future for Americans and. for the people of Maine. And yeah, I. mean, I feel just like a I'm a different. person now because of the time that I've.

spent, the work that I've done, the. tools that I have now. Um, yeah, I think. it's going to be incredibly different. >> I saw this thing in the bull work that. argued you have a chance at being the. Democratic nominee for president in. 2028. And I think it's indicative of people. looking for a savior um and radical. change. >> Yeah, I'm definitely not a savior. yourself. >> Um, I mean, who do you want to actually. lead the party?

>> To lead, >> who don't you want to lead the party? >> I mean, I'll be who I don't want are. many of the people that have been doing. it for years. I'll I'll be upfront. People close with corporate power, people who often waffle on on uh on. positions often. I I I think people are. sick and tired of that. I think people. are happy to disagree with you as long. as they know that you're. >> So, is that who is that? Governor Gavin. News. Like I I'm just trying to. understand from the people that we know. that are out there who you like and who. you don't like.

>> Uh I will be up I I am I very much like. Ro Kana. I think he's done an excellent. job and I've heard his name banning. around a bunch on on this on this topic. I think he has a much like myself a. connection to the past in understanding. that New Deal era programs are going to. be necessary to meet the challenges of. the moment and of the future. Um, and I. think that he uh he also is interested. in long-term industrial policy, which I. am as well. It's something this nation.

really needs to get back to doing. Um, and. but I also think that I wouldn't be. surprised if the person we see in 2028. we haven't even started talking about. yet. I'll be upfront. I think that that. people are looking for radical change. and I don't know where exactly that's. going to come from, but I'm relatively. convinced that we're going to be talking. about names next year and the year after. in relation to the 2028 presidential. race that right now just aren't even on. the radar. I think we're in for a a.

generational shift in American politics. [music]. Um, and it's coming quickly. >> Graham Platner, thank you so much for. your time. I've really enjoyed this. >> No, thank you, Lulu. I really appreciate. it. I'm Lulu Garcia Navaro. >> And I'm David Marquesy. >> And we're the hosts of the Interview, an. audio and video podcast from the New. York Times. >> Every week we interview fascinating and. influential people from all walks of. life. >> Subscribe to our YouTube channel so. you'll never miss an episode.