Billy Strings: ‘This Generational Trauma Has to Stop With Me’ | The Interview

I kind of got wondering about my father, my biological father. I never knew him. And I always kind of thought, man, he must have loved heroin more than. me. [music]. I'm David Marques, and today I'm talking. to musical sensation Billy Strings. At 33 years old, Strings is bringing his. blend of music influenced by bluegrass. artists like Doc Watson and Bill Monroe. [music]. and jam bands like The Grateful Dead to. sold out arenas across the country. He.

grew up in Michigan, surrounded by. poverty and heavy drug use. [music] His. new album, So Much for Goodbyes, is. inspired by his mother, who died about a. year ago of an overdose. One of my. [music] favorite tracks, Miltown Flood, is a melancholy story song which is. built on Strings's beautiful guitar. playing. [music and singing]. That guitar playing I got to witness. firsthand in our second interview, which. you'll want to stick around for.

[music]. Here's my conversation with Billy. Strings. But first, a [music] quick. message. If you're not a subscriber, we. have some news for you. You can now. explore the Times for free without payw. walls during your first month in the New. York Times app. Just download the app. and we hope you enjoy it. Okay, on to. [music] the interview. Thank you for taking the time to do. this. I appreciate it. >> Yeah, of course. >> You know, I wanted to ask so you're. you're playing all you know, all these.

soldout shows across the country this. summer and and later in the summer, you're even doing your own festival. It's pretty wild for someone who like. got their start playing bluegrass music. and still plays music that's so informed. by traditional bluegrass music to like. just have achieved what you've achieved. Was there a a moment for you that stands. out as sort of representing like when. you realize like, oh, this this has. actually gotten really big? >> Yeah. I went from playing in my bedroom.

to playing in coffee houses and pubs and. restaurants and stuff like that. And. eventually I was able to put in my two. weeks at my day job, which was working. at a hotel up in uh Traverse City. And at that point, I I thought, man, if. I never get any bigger than this, I'd be. happy. I'm making a living playing. music. Um, I remember when I I put out. my first record, Turmoil and Tinfoil. I. never thought about how the record would.

be like good for my career. I was just. trying to record these songs. Um, I. wrote down a bunch of stuff that was. personal to me and it was kind of like. writing in my diary or something. And I. I just wanted to make this art and I was. really focused on that. And then I. remember when we actually sold some. records and I was like, whoa. It was just kind of a um a big eye. opener to me. I never thought about the. record helping to further my career.

>> Can you tell me about the title of the. new album, So Much for Goodbyes? What. does that mean? Where does it come from? >> Yeah. Um my mom passed away last June, just over a year ago. I was actually on. my way to a show in Kentucky. and. I just woke up the next morning on the. bus and my wife came back and she told. me the news. And to me it was it was this kind of sad. thing, you know, this idea that I didn't.

get to say goodbye. But when I told my manager. about the title, he's kind of like, man, I like that, you know, cuz it's it's not. really goodbye. She's in everything and. and she's everywhere and I'm her one of. her greatest creations. you know, she. was so artistic and so creative that. that she made me and my brother and. sister and. um so I like the idea that it can kind.

of be taken both ways, you know, so much for goodbyes, like I. didn't get to say goodbye, but also so. much for goodbyes because it's not. really goodbye. I'm. >> I'm I'm sorry for your loss. If you. don't mind me asking, how did your mom. pass away? um. she struggled. her whole life uh with different kinds. of substance abuses and I think she had.

a lot of unresolved trauma. um that she. never really had like proper therapy for. and I think that was her way of kind of. getting through some of that uh was. medicating herself and. um So, you know, she she had an illness that. eventually she succumbed to. So, she she. died of a of an overdose.

And um it was a a shock to me because I. I had no idea that she was using again. And she seemed to be doing really well. on her addiction, you know, has. caused a lot of uh. trauma and stuff in my own life. And. it's she's kind of like a a conundrum. because she's such a beautiful amazing.

artistic and just an amazing person. There's I've never met anybody like her. You know, we always talked about having. her make the art for the next record. cover. She was an artist. She always was. making art, these little shadow boxes. and mixed media art. And she would. always be collecting kind of these. little trinkets and pieces of junk and. stuff. And she would take all this. forgotten rusty old crap and glue it. together to make something beautiful. And uh.

so even before this record was before I. had any of the songs for it, she was. going to make the next record cover. That was our our goal and our dream. And. I told her, you know, you can make the. next record cover, you know, with your. art. And we did. We got to make her. piece of art, the record cover, which I. was really, really stoked on. It was. actually the piece that she was working. on the night she died. It was the last. thing she touched. Are there songs on the album that allow.

you to feel like you're saying things to. her that you would have said that you. didn't get a chance to say? Yeah. I think the big one on this record. when it comes to that sort of thing is. uh it's called Still I Crash. And I wrote that song. not too long after she died. And. That's the one that's pretty blatantly.

kind of me talking to her, you know, just wondering where she went, asking her where where did she go and. why and um explaining the fact that I. feel like I have to learn how to walk. again. like a child. Um. and yeah, just how difficult it is to be. here without her.

>> Yeah, it's hard. You know, my um my mom. died two years ago. She had had ALS and. then she did um they call it medical aid. in dying. Like, you know, she she. decided she didn't want to be around. anymore and suffer. So, she had someone. come and help her. But I I I was able to. say what I wanted to say to her because. we knew when it was going to happen. But. then my my dad died in at the end of. April and I had it was sort of like your. mom completely unexpected. I had a hard. relationship with him. But just when you.

don't when you don't have the chance to. say things that you feel like you wanted. to say it's uh. it just there it's like an open wound. that you're not sure when it's going to. close. Whereas with my mom, I feel like. there aren't unanswered questions or. there wasn't anything left unsaid. So, the grief feels very very different. >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It's uh it's not. better or worse either way, I don't. think. And it's just one of those things.

we have to learn to. live with, you know, and try to just. remember who she was and. and and love and cherish her memory and. live up to her wildness, you know. She's. kind of she's inspired me to really let. loose and let my freak flag fly a little. bit more, you know, live more the way. she lived than trying to be so cautious. all the time. You know, I feel like I've.

always tried to. stay out of trouble and, you know, do the best I can to just not. get myself hung up. But my mom would. just live life to the fullest. constantly. And so she, you know, she. inspires me to kind of live a little bit. more on the wild side, you know. >> And how does playing music help process. the the feelings that you have, whether. it's [snorts] about your mom or anything.

else? Well, it's always been my. coping mechanism and survival strategy. and uh my medicine, you know, and um you. know, playing bluegrass music is. it's like a portal back to my childhood. um. back before I knew anything dirty about. the earth. I think it's. it's a way for me to go back to a time.

that was just beautiful and full of. light. and. it you know it can give me deja vu stuff. like that. You know growing up playing. music with my dad and then you know. songwriting and stuff like that. It's. kind of my cathartic and therapeutic way. of. dealing with things. I think sublimation. is one of my.

my main kind of charact characteristics. that I that I that I do in life. I just. try to. instead of letting this this hard stuff. drag me down, I try to just make art. from it, you know, make lemonade, if you. will, >> you know? when you were a kid, I know um you know. sort of maybe a a chaotic uh way that. you grew up in in uh in Michigan. You. know, there was you you mentioned your.

mom's substance abuse problems and I. know your you referred to your dad, but. and he is your dad, but technically. speaking, it's your stepfather, right? Because your your biological father died. when you were really young from an. overdose. It just sound it sounds hard, but how did music fit into your family. life? Like what what role did it play. for [snorts] you growing up in the. family? >> You know, my biological father died. before I ever knew him. I was 2 years.

old. And so when I say my dad, I'm. speaking of Terry Barber. And he taught. me how to tie my shoes and wipe my ass. and how to play guitar and and all that. And I think. early on it was a way for me to bond. with him. And the better I got, I kind of, you. know, would get attention from that. And. I think I I liked that. So I just. kept trying to get better and better and.

make him proud. And I still do that to this day. I mean, even back when my mom was still alive, um, anytime I would reach some sort of. milestone, you know, I remember one of the last. ones was when I played with Bob Dylan, you know, I'm calling my mom right. before walking on stage and I'm like, you're never going to believe this. I'm. getting ready to go play with Bob Dylan. But back when I was a kid, you know, before any of the fame and all this.

stuff, it was just kind of our way of. life, you know? I mean, it was like it's. just what we did. We just played music. around my house. It was if I wasn't. playing uh old bluegrass tunes with my. dad, I was listening to my mom playing. Beatles records and stuff like that. And. I remember being a little kid, you know, this is kind of a a good. portrait of how my mother w was. I was.

probably. maybe 7 years old and she was playing. the Beatles re the white album backwards. for me listening to Revolution number. nine, >> right? For secret messages or something. >> Yeah. She was backwards masking kind of. showing me all how this stuff works. And. I was just just a little kid, you know. [laughter] I was like, "What the heck?". But, uh, it music was always, yeah, it. was always a big a big deal. Did you. also, you know, what you just described. sounds, um,

like very sort of uh, buoyant and and. and positive and it felt and that was a. natural part of how you were growing up, but then there was this sort of other. darker side. Was it hard for you to make. sense of those of like the the light and. the dark in your family at the same time. or was it just that's just what you knew. and so you didn't really think about it? Well, I mean early on it wasn't so bad. You know, [clears throat].

I think by the time I was old enough to. kind of remember stuff, like four years. old or so, um. my parents, you know, were doing pretty. good. There was just some bush lights. and, you know, a few joints here and. there. It wasn't anything hard or crazy. So, my early childhood was really. beautiful and surrounded by music and. friends and we had food in the. cupboards, you know, we lived in a.

trailer, but it was a nice trailer. And. uh we got out of the trailer park and we. got this place over in Mure. uh and you know we had a swimming pool. and my mom was digging in her garden and. things were good and then. it just started to go downhill. Uh, you know, by the time I was 10, 11, 12, we moved into this other house that. was a lot more kind of run down. And.

I think my dad lost his job and we just. started struggling a lot more. financially. That was at the same time. that my parents were kind of falling. into this addiction. And then after. quite a few years of that, um, you know, I just moved out. I moved out. of my mom's house when I was 13. And um. I was trying to like guilt trip him into. seeing what they were doing, you know? I. mean, there wasn't any food. There was. my house was no longer a home.

So I I took off. My friend Brad came and. picked me up in his truck and I went and. stayed in his basement for a while. And. I was playing in a heavy metal band at. that time and I kind of was just couch. surfing. And when I realized that me. moving out wasn't going to change. anything. That's when I was like, "Oh no, I. actually. now I'm actually kind of homeless." You. know, when I moved out, I was trying to. cause a big scene to try to guilt trip.

people into realize what realizing what. was going on, but it didn't work. So. then I had to just figure it out. But. eventually, you know, I never disowned. my parents or I never like cut ties with. them. And it actually became this kind. of era of I was a young teenager and I. was starting into. trying things myself. And um.

eventually it became a really cool party. house because I could show up there. with several carloads full of miners and. a bunch of half gallons of whiskey and. stuff and like we can party at my house, my mom's, you know. And uh they couldn't. tell me no. My dad would always be like, "You're not having all these minors. drinking here?" I'm like, "Okay, well, what are you going to do? call the cops, you know. So, I eventually just started.

partying with them. And uh. you know, when you lose people to. addiction like that, especially as a. young kid, you almost wonder why or what. it is that's so powerful that basically. took them from me. I mean, I remember a. time that's actually what the song. Turmoil and Tinfoil is about. I was. staring right at my mother. She's. sitting right there. But I missed her. >> Yeah. >> She's not herself anymore. Her soul and.

her beautiful vibrancy is gone. It's. just this kind of gray shell of a person. that is really sick. So, um you know, you wonder yourself, what. is this stuff all about? So, you know, I. was 16 the first time I smoked meth. uh with my mom. And. around that time is when I, you know, I.

was probably 15 when I started doing. Coke. And by the time I was 16, I was. doing speed and. trying crack and stuff. And then a. couple years later after that, I kind of. got wondering about my father, my. biological father. I never knew him. And. I always kind of thought, man, he must have loved heroin more than. me. So I always wondered what was so. good that it was better than me. So. that's when I, you know, would try. heroin and stuff like that because I.

just had to see what it was all about. And um so I don't know, I got a lot of. that stuff out of my system early on. >> Yeah. >> And I think it was a good thing. I never. really got hooked on anything because I. was always surrounded by by tweakers and. junkies and stuff. So I I saw how bad. these people's lives were and I never. wanted to let myself get that far. So if. I if I tried anything out of curiosity, I would try it once and I would leave it. alone for a while, you know.

>> But when you when you were younger and. partying with your parents, I would I. would bet that there was some part of. you inside that was not that felt. conflicted about it or felt. uncomfortable with it. Did you and your. mom and your dad ever talk about that. period in in your life when you were. sharing that kind of stuff? No. No, it was it was just what it was. I mean, sometimes, you know, we'd get. high and I would play guitar with my dad. until the sun came up. I mean, hours.

And again, now we're bonding again. >> Yeah. >> And that felt good. And it's, you know, you had this sort of odd situation where. you were getting the you're playing. guitar with your dad and you were. getting praised for it and you were. getting attention for it even if sort of. like the circumstances in which it was. occurring [snorts] were kind of rough. circumstances. But when did you realize. that you were you were actually like. that you were good at guitar? Not just.

that you could, you know, pick a tune, but that you had a real gift for it. I. mean, that was early on. >> I I started playing when I was about. four years old. By the time I was six or. seven, I could carry a tune and and I. was my dad's rhythm player. He would. play all the lead and do all the fancy. picking and singing and I would hold. down the rhythm for him. So, by the time. I was six or seven, I knew a lot of. bluegrass songs. And one of the biggest. moments for me was I was sitting in my.

dad's bedroom with him as I would. basically every night um sitting there. playing two guitars. and he was teaching me the song Bowmont. Rag. and. we would play the tune and I would mess. up the second part every time and you. know I stopped us right in the middle of. the song. I said stop. why don't you. just play it and let me listen. and uh so that's what we did. I I just.

listened to him playing it. And instead. of trying to count, you know, 1 2 3 4 on the D chord and 1 2. 3 4 on the A chord, I listened to what. he was playing. I listened to the. melody. And um so then I was like, "All. right, let me try it again." And instead. of counting, I was just I heard the. melody. I heard what he was doing. >> Yeah. He was queuing you, right? >> Exactly. Yeah. And so that. >> Yeah. >> And then I nailed it. And he was he was.

awful proud. He called my grandma, made. her listen on the phone. And uh that was. a big moment for me because he was he. was awful proud and I was proud. And. that's when this this sort of this. listening thing started. when I was able to listen to the music. more intently and I I could tell what. chord was coming next. I used to think I. was magic or something. I mean, I had no. concept of music theory or anything, but.

my dad would play, you know, maybe a G. chord and then he would play a G7th. and my ear would just lead me to the I'd. be like, well, the next chord's probably. going to be a C and then it would be I. think bluegrass folk music and hillbilly. [clears throat] music like that, it's kind of better to learn it that way. than to try to learn it from some. academic point of view. It's better to. learn it on the back porch and to let it.

just get under your skin because then. it's not some equation. It's a feeling. It's a, you know, it comes from your. soul. Was there um a time when you. started to really think that that music. and pursuing music could be sort of a. way into a different kind of life than. the one you were living? Like did did. you think of it as as like a a way out? I never considered that. Um, growing up. in the area that I did.

and just growing up the way that I did, seeing music as a career, you know, it just kind of seemed like a. really far-fetched. idea. Although, when I was younger, you. like middle school and stuff, I mean, I. used to I used to think I was going to. be, you know, the next Jimmyi Hendris or. something. And I used to dream about. being a big rock star, but as I got a. little older, I sort of realized that. how, like I said, it's far-fetched, you.

know, but I never thought of it as a. career until I started kind of I went. out and did some open mic nights out. there in Traverse City just for fun, just cuz my friends and I would be at. home and let's go to the bar and, you. know, I could sign up and play a few. tunes. And this was before I was even. old enough to be in the bar. And uh. I'd go up there and play a few tunes, flat pick a little number, and people. would I'd get a standing ovation. And I.

started to realize, wow, this. flatpicking stuff, this bluegrass stuff. really gets people out of their seats. I. mean, it's always been to me just. something that I did around the house. with my dad or whatever. something that. I like because it brings me back to my. childhood, but people really react to. it. And uh. it's when I started to kind of realize, man, maybe I do have something here. And uh it's kind of like, wow, these. never these people never heard of Doc.

Watson before or what, you know? Well, but as as you know, someone who. who knows about the predecessors, who. knows Doc Watson, you know, who knows. Tony Rice or you know, one of my. favorite players is Clarence White. You. ever listen to him? >> Of course. Yeah. >> Yeah. Beautiful player. Um and and and. those those are some of the the greatest. musicians who have ever lived play this. incredibly beautiful music with such. skill and heart. and they never.

attracted, you know, tens of thousands. of people to arenas or uh had sort of. the the mass success that you've been. able to have. And do do you ever wonder. like why you and not them? You must. wonder about that, right? Um yeah. I mean, on one hand, I don't. know, [laughter] right? At a certain. point, I stopped, you know, like wearing.

a suit and combing my hair back with. pomade and trying to pretend like I was. born in the Appalachian Mountains and. my, you know, daddy was a coal miner and. kind of doing this whole Civil War. reenactment. Um, and I started just being myself. And I also. allowed the other influences from other. kinds of music that I enjoyed, you know, I enjoy everything from hip-hop to jazz.

and classic rock and heavy metal and, you know, death metal and hardcore and I. played in heavy metal bands and stuff. [music]. So I I feel like my whole brain is just. this kind of musical goulash that's just. all mixed together. And when I stopped. trying to just be one thing and I just. allowed myself to enjoy and.

basically accept all of those influences. in my own music. I feel like there's a very broad. spectrum of people that what I do can. attract. Um, people, everyone from metal heads to. old bluegrassers to people that are into. more improvisational music like the. Grateful Dead. I mean, I got people from. young teenagers to 70, 80 year old. people in my crowd and I play a little.

bit for for all of them. I also I've. just always paid attention to at least. when I started to. have a career in music. I I paid. attention to the marketing side of it. too. The the way that different bands. from different genres uh would promote. themselves. You know, bluegrass. is. is an old. tradition and it's.

it's stayed kind of in the past in a lot. of ways. You know, I remember when I was. coming up, a lot of the flyers for a concert or. something, it would look like look like. a elementary school newsletter, you know. Meanwhile, I see these rappers. and stuff. You when they promote a concert, they. have a video and everything. It looks. like a movie, you know. And so I. thought, man, we should do that or we. should kind of mix these different ideas.

from different uh genres and stuff and. just mix the way that different artists. promote themselves and try to bring that. over to the bluegrass scene. There is. like a community of people who are Billy. Strings fans. I know that outside some. of the shows there's like a what do they. call it like a shakedown street kind of. situation where people are selling you. know I don't know what they grilled. cheese sandwiches or whatever selling. weed and stuff like that. What do you. think that community is looking for when.

they come to a Billy Strings show? >> I think that's a big part of the. experience. It's not just the music. It's it's the camaraderie between all. the friends that show up and you know we. never play the same song you know the. same way once all these parts are not. worked out exactly. a lot of it is very improvisational. So we have the way the song goes and we. we get that but in the middle every solo.

is different every time and sometimes we. get into parts of the show where it's a. very long improvised piece and. that's where the audience and the band. kind of come together to make this one. big reciprocal thing. I've always kind. of felt like the audience is in charge. of the show. The more energy they give. us, the more we can give back and they. start. kind of being able to press on the gas. or the brakes or steer us in different. directions because we're just kind of. vibing off what they give us.

I I was reading an article about you and. it I think it talked about how before. shows you used to get real uh anxious. and have real stomach pain. Is that. still an issue for you? I definitely get. nervous before a show. Sometimes moments. before I'm walking on stage, I feel like. I might pass out or I feel really laded. and weak. and uh I just got to kind of stumble up.

on stage and get into the first song or. two and halfway through the show I'm. like I I'm the complete opposite. I have. all this energy. I feel great. I feel. super confident, almost cocky even, you. know, to the point where I just I start. having a lot of fun. And it's just the. people's smiles that I think bring it. out of me. And there is that sort of. expectation from the crowd to. to do something amazing and also that.

expectation from myself to always do. better than I did the night before. because this is. my livelihood and this is my my life and. at [snorts] a certain point deep in the. back of my mind I'm scared that this is. all going to go away at some point and. maybe I'll have to go back to the way. life was when it was really hard and.

surrounded by, you know, there's this. little devil on my shoulder that. tells me I don't deserve any of this and. uh thinks that I should be in some. little trailer somewhere addicted to. drugs or something and not a penny to my. name. So it does feel like I'm kind of. playing for my survival a lot or each. time I walk on stage I'm playing for so. that I don't have to go back there. I want to play a good show so that. people will come next time.

There's a lot writing on it, you know. >> Does having a a kid has that changed. sort of the pressure you put on yourself. as far as music? >> Yeah. I used to just put too much. pressure on myself and. to the point where I would strangle the. life out of the music. I would. it was the most important thing to me, you know, my music. It's everything from a career to.

a reason not to. to just let my life go off the rails and. listen to that little devil on my. shoulder. But when my son was born, I kind of. I had a big change in perspective. And. now I'm kind of just free to go sing and. play. If my family's okay, then I'm free to go play and sing. And. and I'm singing from a place of joy in.

my belly now. And I have this little. cosmic listener. that I can sing to and sing for no. matter what. And now I have an actual. reason. to go sing and play. When I leave my. house to go on tour, I'm on a mission to. provide for my family. I'm not just out. there to stoke my ego. >> What was your what is or was your. parents relationship with your fans and.

with the scene around your music? Um yeah, the last few years of my mom's. life, she got really involved uh with my. fans and the the that whole lot scene. I. mean, she loved it. She that's kind of. what she grew up with, going to concerts. and hanging out and stuff. So So she. she would go out there and mingle with. those folks all the time. She had many. dear friends that she met at the shows.

Um, and she would she would do things like. take videos of them. um, explaining what my music meant to them. and she would she would send them to me. and stuff. She would always tell me. like, "You have no idea how many people. you've touched and how how much your. music means to these people." And I'm. kind of like, you know, just blown away by that, you know? I. wonder if that was maybe a tough.

situation for her to be in also because. of the because of the partying. >> Yeah, I wondered about that. But at a. certain point, you know, people are. going to do what they're going to do. And that's kind of one thing I learned. from this whole thing is you can't can't. change somebody's life. you know, you. can't uh people are going to do whatever. they're going to do and you got to just. love them for who they are and um.

accept whatever happens, you know. >> Do you think that's true? People are. going to do what whatever they're going. to do. >> I do. >> You can't change. >> I mean, you can change for sure, but you. got to want to be the one to do it. I'm. just saying I can't impose my will on. somebody else to expect them to change. I don't think that's a possibility. I've. always just wanted my mom and dad to. have a good life and for my mom to have. a garden and for them, you know, they're. getting older. Uh my mom was 64.

I thought, you know, in my mind, it's. like I just want them to grow old and. and and and start being these boring old. people that, you know, go up north every. once in a while and sit at home and. watch the Andy Griffith Show or. whatever. But that's what was in my. mind, not theirs. You know, they my mom. was living her best life. You know, she. was she was out there having a good time. right up until the end, which again is.

still inspiring to me in a way, you. know, where she just. she didn't want to grow old. She'd. rather kind of run and gun right until. the end. You know, >> you mentioned a couple times, you know, this idea of not wanting to go back to. the life you had, but if if the the. music had not taken off, what would a. good life have been for you? >> Uh just,

you know, working a job that I didn't. absolutely hate. Uh, just making enough to have some food. in the cupboards and a roof over my head. and not being a drug addict, I think, would be good enough. >> But it turned out pretty well. >> Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, I got a lot of. stuff out of my system early on. And so. now I'm. I'm 10 years sober from alcohol.

And uh I'm definitely drawing a line in. the sand here. All this. generational trauma has to stop with me. and I'm going to give my son a life very. different from mine. I've even since my. son was born, I kind of stopped smoking. weed, too. So, I've been totally sober. for like almost a year now, except for. now. I like coffee. I never was a coffee.

drinker before. [laughter]. >> As far as as far as vices go, I think I. think you're allowed that one. >> Yeah. I wake up and my wife always makes. a pot of coffee and man, I'm to the. point now where I'm I go to bed excited. about that cup of coffee in the morning. It's [laughter]. >> It's good to have something to live for. >> Yeah. Yeah, it's it's good. I understand. why people are into that stuff now. >> But but Billy, I I really appreciate you.

speaking with me today and and talking. with me, you know, about the tougher. stuff. And, you know, I think we're. going to talk again maybe in a week, week and a half, something like that. But you're going to play a couple of. tunes for us. I think you'll have your. guitar with you. >> Awesome. Hey, thank you. I'll see you. soon. >> On the interview, we talked to our guest. twice. So, about a week later, I [music]. spoke to Billy Strings again and this. time he brought his guitar. [music]. >> Hi, Billy. How are you?

>> Good. How's it going? >> Um, Billy, thank you for taking the time. to speak with me again today. >> No problem. >> I thought, you know, maybe just here at. the top, you could play a a traditional. tune for us. I was thinking maybe. something like The Train That Carried My. Girl from Town. >> Uh, sure. I could give it a try. >> [music]. [music].

[music]. [music]. >> Where was you [singing] when the train. [music] left town? Standing on the.

corner with my head hanging down. Wish. to [music] the Lord that the train would. wreck. Kill the engineer and break the. fireman's [singing and music] neck. Hey, the train that carried the girl from. town. Hey, [singing and music]. where was you when the train left town? Standing on the corner with my head. hanging [music] down. If I had my gun. and let the hammer down, I'd shoot the.

rounder [singing] took my girl from. town. [music] Hey, the train that. carried my girl from town. [singing]. Hey, hey, hey. [music]. >> [music].

>> Well, it's ashes to ashes [singing] and. dust to dust. [music] Can you show me. the woman that a man can trust? There. goes [singing and music] my girl. Someone ring her back. She stuck her. hand in my money sack. Hey, the train. that carried my girlfriend. [music] Hey, [singing] hey, hey.

Well, the ration's on the table or the. coffeey's getting [music and singing]. cold. Some dirty honey took my jelly. roll. Hello, [singing] Santa. [music] Give me. 609. I want to talk to that little girl of. mine. Hey, the train that carried my.

girl from [music and singing] town. Hey, hey, hey, hey. >> [music]. >> Hey, sounds good. Thank you very much.

That was great. Yeah, I haven't had coffee yet. [laughter]. >> I couldn't tell. When you were starting. out playing, um, what were some of the. elements of bluegrass playing in. particular that you found trickiest? I. mean, because it there's there's the. speed, there's this precision, the. articulation. It's not the easiest style. of music to play well. What was the. stuff that you kind of had to really. practice at the most? Well, when I first started playing, you. know, I just played uh rhythm.

and my dad played all the lead. So, I. would play, [music]. you know, while my dad was going. [music]. stuff like that. And I was just a rhythm. player for a long time. And I think that. it sort of gave me a um. quite a bit of time to just sit and. listen while I was playing the chords. I.

could listen to what the melodies were. were doing and I could have those kind. of seeped into my brain, you know. And it wasn't until a little bit later. on that I kind of started to try to take. some breaks on some stuff and try to. learn how to play uh pick the tunes and. everything. I mean, I remember when I. was a little kid. When I first started playing, I used to. just play on two strings a lot [music].

[music]. [music]. and I would just notice these different. That's all you need right there. when I. was a I mean I must have been like I. said like five years old just learning. how to play guitar and I would just sit. there and do that. [music].

[music]. sometimes I get into a pattern. [music]. and I just man it sounded so magical to. me. It sounded huge and and. like a symphony or something, you know, in my head. and it just. it's just two strings, you know, but I.

was just hearing these different. intervals of [music]. all you do is change one note. and it gives it such a different. emotion. [music]. [music]. >> [music and singing]. >> Sounds kind of hopeful or something. Sounds kind of like I don't know. I don't know if this is going good.

now. It [music] sounds kind of like. resolved. It's like well whatever. You know, >> when we were talking last time, you. mentioned that one of the first uh. instances where you really felt proud. about your guitar playing was when you. were playing at Bowmont Rag with your. dad and he was sort of like queuing you. with the melodies. I I wondered would it. be possible to sort of demonstrate what. you were talking about there like h how. he was using the melodies to help you.

understand where to come in? >> Yeah. Um, [music]. so. Bulmont rag. when I was playing it as a kid. See, I. got this little thing here that's called. a capo. It's kind of like a cheater. >> It changes the keys without having to. change the chord shapes. Right. >> Right. Yeah. So, I didn't use uh one on this. tune. I played open like this and I. would play.

So that was my part. My dad would take. his capo and play up here out of a C. position, [music] but still in D. And so. what he would play is.

[music]. [music]. >> [music]. >> and so on. Um, so when I was first.

learning that tune, you know, I was trying to count. Okay. 1. 2 [music] 3 4 1 [singing] 2 3 4 1 2 3 4. D 2 3 4 A 2 3 4 D and then G. [music]. And I I would get messed up during that. part because I've never been good at. counting anyways or math or numbers or. anything like that. Um, so we were playing the tune and I just.

asked my dad to stop. I said, "Why don't. right in the middle of the song I just. stopped and I said,"Listen, you just. play it and and let me listen to it.". And so he played it. [music]. and I started hearing what he was doing. I wasn't counting. I was listening, you. know, d. [music]. and then he goes.

and then on the second part he would go. [music]. And then. [music]. so I know when he goes. [music]. that's my time to go to the G chord. And.

I started just hearing these little. things, you know, uh I didn't know it, but [music]. he would play that chord with with that. note in it, [music] and my ear just. would automatically lead me to. >> [music]. >> Yeah. >> So, I started using the music as as. a road map instead of trying to count. >> And I know you still practice and take. lessons occasionally. Like, what are.

things that you're trying to get to in. [music] your playing now that you're. consciously working on? [music]. >> Oh, I don't know. I'm just I feel like I. just play so many gigs and stuff. I just. hear myself play so much. I get sick of. it. You know, like, you know, bluegrass is a lot of [music]. like using this much of the fretboard.

>> Yeah. I mean, I'll occasionally [music]. [music]. I'll occasionally slide up here and get. a little stuff, but there's no money. past the fifth fifth fret. And uh. I've just kind of started to try to. learn some different styles of music. that I never really got into, you know, uh studying with my guy Rob that I've.

been kind of taking lessons with for the. last couple years. >> [music]. >> I mean, he's got me playing like. [music]. [music]. [music].

>> [music]. >> you know, >> like back and uh just trying to expand. my horizons, I guess. >> Billy, can you maybe just to close. things out, maybe you can play us out. with another traditional song? like. something like Little White Church. Uh,

I could probably try that one. [music]. [music]. There's [music and singing] a little. white church in the valley. that stands [music] in [singing] my. memories each day. And it seems I can hear the bells.

ringing. [music]. Though I am [singing] many miles away. And many times [music] on Sunday morning. the whole countryside [singing] would. gather there. [music] They would all. kneel down by [singing] the altar as. they lifted up their voice in prayer. [music]. Oh the church [singing] in the valley. Little white church is the place I love.

so well. [music] I'm sad [singing] and. lonely. Yes, I'm sad and lonely for the. little white [music] church in the dead. >> [music].

[music]. [music]. >> They would [singing] sing the old song. rock of agees. [music]. Oh Christ, let me hide myself [singing]. in thee. And I know their troubles are. flying. over [music]. dark and stormy sea. Their trles [music and singing].

have ended. Happy together we shall [singing] be. [music] They are waiting, watching up. yonder for the coming home. [music and singing] of you and me. Oh, the church in the valley that a. little white [singing] church [music] is. the place I love so well. I'm sad and lonely. Yes, I'm sad. [singing] and lonely for [music] the. little white church in the Dell.

I'm sad and lonely. Yes, [music] I'm sad. and [singing] lonely for the little. white church in the Dell. All right. Well, I really uh want to. thank you for bringing your guitar along. today and playing for us. I appreciate. it. >> Yeah, no problem. I usually don't make. any good music until after 3:00 p.m. >> Thank you again for taking all the time. >> No problem. >> And good and good [music] luck with. everything. >> Thank you. I appreciate it.

>> I'm Lulu Garcia Navaro [music]. >> and I'm David Maresy. >> and we're the hosts of the interview, an. audio and video podcast from the New. York Times. Every week we interview. fascinating and [music] influential. people from all walks of life. >> Subscribe to our YouTube channel so. you'll never miss an episode.