Why China wants Taiwan

Does China think that Trump is an. opportunity not just in this trade war. but also for Taiwan because I guess if. you're talking about a big beautiful. deal the big fear of some people. certainly in Taiwan but some China hawks. in Washington is that the biggest deal. of all would be for China to expect. Donald Trump to trade something on. Taiwan you know to sell Taiwan for. soybeans is the kind of the the. caricature does China have that at the. back of its mind. >> at least I don't think so and I don't. think a lot of my colleagues in Beijing.

view this in that regard. To be honest, Taiwan is not a is not a a mug on the. table. You cannot sell it. You cannot. buy it. If we can buy it, we we we. bought it already. You cannot buy. Taiwan. There are 23 million people. living on the island. And uh look at. Hong Kong. We uni we we we reunified. with Hong Kong for 28 years already. Well, you already had sovereignty over I. mean Hong Kong was, you know, on a. lease, right? Taiwan is Taiwan is does.

not has never belonged to the People's. Republic of China. So, you'd have to. take it. >> No, no, our position Taiwan is part of. China. Uh, it's part of the part of. China. You can say PRC or China, but. it's part of China. So, for us, it's the. same thing. What I want to say is uh the. the experience in Hong Kong tells us. that the the the reunification of the. you know at the at a superficial level. it's it's it's not enough you know. reunification need a unification of.

society of the uh identity you know. until majority people believe they are. Chinese you won't say I unify the. country completely so uh we cannot buy. And uh. >> so what does that mean? So we had a uh. we had a a Chinese ambassador recently. in France who when he was talking about. this need to reunify the the souls and. the minds the hearts and minds of the. Taiwanese said of course we will need a. massive re-education campaign. You have.

scholars who I've interviewed in Beijing. who write about the lessons of Hong Kong. like Tien Failong uh the legal scholar. you know he will say what we need to do. is learn the lesson that a country a. territory like Hong Kong that was too. westernized and too infected by liberal. western ideas needs a massive campaign. of patriotic re-education and that was. exactly what we will need to do in. Taiwan. In Hong Kong, we've seen sham. elections with candidates vetted by the.

Communist Party who had to swear a. loyalty oath to the Communist Party. Uh. we've seen the crushing of the free. press. Uh the the sentencing of Jimmy. Lee, the the media boss. If that is a. model that China is learning from, what's the message to people on Taiwan. who might be watching this? What is what. is coming for them? I I definitely agree. that we need to win the hearts and minds. of people in no matter in Hong Kong or. in in Taiwan. But I think the approach. could be very different. the you know.

these two cases though we believe the. both cases are you know both uh place. are belong to China but uh as you said. you know the process is different in in. in uh in Hong Kong case we you know. signed a treaty with with the US joint. with the UK then we take it back but uh. so we you reunified in the form first. and then you you face the you know task. how to win the hearts and minds so we. gradually.

uh realize that this this is very. difficult actually. Uh. >> but do we need to would you need to have. patriots governing Taiwan? That's the. phrase we hear in Hong Kong. We know. what that is code for. Patriots. governing Hong Kong means if you want to. hold any public office at all, you have. to swear a formal legal oath of total. loyalty to the government of Hong Kong. and to the Communist Party leadership in. Beijing. There are millions of Taiwanese. who right now do not want to swear an an. oath of loyalty to the Communist Party. in Beijing. They vote for parties in.

free democratic elections that are. absolutely opposed to rule from Beijing. So what happens to them under mainland. Chinese rule? >> Uh we are in China we are study many. people are study the uh the the Taiwan. version of the one country two systems. So that means Taiwan has their own. version of one country two systems. It's. different. It will be different from. Hong Kong's but I don't think we already. have one you know official version of. the Taiwan version of Tai uh you know. one China two system version for for.

Taiwan. We don't have that. So I think I. hope that in the future we can discuss. with people in Taiwan about how to. achieve that goal. So I don't think we. should literally just copy what we are. doing in Hong Kong to to to Taiwan. because Taiwan is still not reunified. But it's a it's a place, you know, I've. covered elections in Taiwan. It's a real. democracy. It's a noisy, rockous. democracy, but it's a real democracy. You have parties that violently. disagree. You can choose which one you. go. Power changes from one party to.

another. >> It's very hard to imagine how China. could ever let that happen again if it. took over. >> You know, 30 years ago, 40 years ago, no. one I think majority people will say, you know, even in Taiwan, I think. majority people believe that the two. sides were reunified. I mean 40 years. ago, >> but you have to put democracy that cork. is back in the bottle. That's not. something. >> I'm not saying I'm not saying this is in. incompatible with democracy or with. election. What I want to say is now from. current perspective you you be you may.

believe that it's quite impossible. But. who knows what will happen after 40. years. We don't know. I mean the the. call here is do you believe do you agree. you are Chinese uh you are Chinese. citizen and uh I don't know the form of. reification with Taiwan in the future. but if it's a unified country you need. to be loyal to the to the government to. the system right and and if that's a 30. 40year project potentially that you know.

China is patient wants to wait will. there be some voices who as Donald Trump. finishes this presidential term will. some in Beijing say well That was a. wasted opportunity. We had an American. president who does not seem to care much. about allies, who tells us he doesn't. care about other countries being. democratic. And so all of the usual. problems we have that America cares. about Taiwan as a democratic ally under. Trump, they're not really a serious. consideration. So leaving aside the 30. 40 year patience will there be some.

people in Beijing going Trump is a. window of opportunity and if he leaves. office and we have not achieved some. sort of closer strangle hold on Taiwan. with Donald Trump in the White House we. will feel we have completely wasted an. opportunity. I think there will always. be be different views in Beijing in. China about this you know how do you. view this opport window of opportunity. how do you view the you know the Taiwan. issue but I don't see I don't I haven't. seen any you know mainstream view uh you. know in in China in Beijing say ah this.

is a window opportunity we must take it. we must take some military actions we. use it to reunify the the two sides I I. don't think that's a mainstream view uh. using military means is will never be a. will will always be a very difficult. choice for anyone. So uh I I haven't. seen it but I I do think there is an. opportunity for China and the US to to. work on Taiwan issue to I don't know. what can we do specifically but I I.

don't think that's a deal that the US. gave Taiwan to China or vice versa. I I. think we might like uh you know try to. for instance uh one of possibility for. me is can the US clarif clarify their. one China policy further uh can we can. we and US position is quite ambiguous on. that. >> and and you hear this that maybe you. know so maybe it's not the moment to. have a full-on war you China would. clearly like to avoid a war for Taiwan.

but if you can get Donald Trump to say. some sort of change of language that. basically induces kind of gloom and. despair and and and a lack of confidence. among kind of Taiwanese democrats who. don't want to be ruled by China. That. that would be a win. >> I think. Yeah, definitely. If so, that's. in China's interest. We we encourage the. US to clarify their position and we. think the US role on Taiwan issue has. not been very constructively uh in past. four decades. So, we hope they can. clarify.