Is Iran's regime moving away from theocracy?

On the streets it's really hard to see. signs of. theocracy. You see them in the. billboards, but I think in the whole. time we were there we may have seen but. one cleric walking on the street. One cleric. You don't see the presence. of religion in society. People we met. described Iran as the most secular. society in the Middle East, some said in. the world. What? People you met. described Iran as the most secular. society in the world? I mean I certainly. heard that when we were chatting to. people. There's there's an idea from the. outside, I certainly had it, that Iran. now is a place of mad mullahs and. nuclear bombs and that's it. And you get.

there and ordinary people are living. pretty ordinary lives. They're riding on. a metro, they're sitting in cafes, they're very nice coffee shops, you. know, these people are not all going to. pray three times a day. They're living a. pretty ordinary life. >> It's a country that wants to be. connected to the rest of the world. It. feels itself wants to have its natural. place in the international order and the. ideology of the of of the regime of the. revolution doesn't fit that. And so the. revolution if it's going to Sorry, the. leadership if it's going to survive is. going to have to adjust to its own.

population. And in many ways already has. taken major strides towards that. I. think that's potentially an enormous. source of tension because the IRGC, the. the guards, which are heavily involved in the. economy, make enormous amounts of money. out of sanctions. That's what allows. them to control the economy. An open. economy is is a big threat to them. So. you have, you know, a move to. nationalism which gives power to the. guards, but the guards want distance. between Iran and the rest of the world. That's the source of revenue. So you. think that because of the the benefits.

that the guards get from the existing. regime they will be resistant to any. kind of reform that leads to an open. >> And integration, yeah. And the last. point I'd make is don't forget that the. Iranian nuclear program began under the. Shah. This is This is in spite of what. Benjamin Netanyahu says, this is not an. Islamic bomb. It's an Iranian bomb. It's. a national bomb. And therefore I think a. movement away from a theocracy, if if. that's what happens, doesn't mean that. the nuclear program goes away. That's. not its inspiration. Do you agree with. Aneek? I very much agree with Aneek's.

point about this tension between does. Iran live in splendid isolation? You. know, you're talking about an economy. which is 90. country which is 90 million strong, which has a strong internal economy, which in itself can, you know, has oil, has fuel, has many ways of sustaining. itself, can continue to get by. Do the Do the guards Do the people at. the at the helm continue to monopolize. that? In which case sanctions is serving them. We met one industrialist who insisted. that productivity was increasing cuz. others weren't coming in. And indeed in.

places where there might be competition. like China, Iran is putting in sanctions. of its own if you like, protection, to. stop to stop that competition. There is. there is this huge tension between does. Iran remain this closed society in the. grip of the guards or does it do what. its people want to do and reach out to. the rest of the world?