Has the world reached “peak Trump”?

One of the things that comes up quite. often when governments are telling me. how anxious they are about how the. second term is so radical and everything. seems so kind of chaotic is they go, "But the midterms, if only the midterm. elections go badly enough for the. Republican party, then Donald Trump will. be a kind of chasened, weakened figure. and maybe things will feel more normal.". Are you convinced by that analysis from. foreign governments? >> Trump is never going to be normal. uh he. is an aberration and and thank God for.

that. Uh but I think the dimmonition of. Trump's power, the loss of uh his. ability to intimidate Republicans has. already begun with the results of the. 2025 election. I think Republicans were. shocked. It's uh it's true they're not. uh they're not full elections like we. will have in 2026. You have to be. somewhat careful in drawing your. conclusions. But other things that are. happening in addition to the elections. earlier this month, the rejection by.

Republican senators of Trump's call to. end the filibuster, the opposition to. the midcycle redistricting effort that a. number of Republican parties in uh in. the states have undertaken uh and then. the incredible revolt by the MAGA base. itself on the Jeffrey Epstein scandal. I. think I think we're at the point where. Trump is now on the downhill slope. That. doesn't guarantee the rate of disscent. uh or or how far it goes, but it's it's. a little bit like the Wizard of Oz. You.

pull the curtain back and suddenly. everybody's operating in a different. world. I think that's happening. I hope. I'm not uh uh too optimistic, but I I do. have a sense that that's beginning. So, what that will do to Republican House. and Senate members is cause them to. wonder how safe they are in their own. districts. They've been worried about a. Trump opponent in the primary. Now, a. good number of them are going to start. worrying, maybe I should worry about the. Democratic opponent in November. And. that will accelerate uh I hope the.

propensity to stand up and and say. what's good for the member to help them. get reelected. That will not be. necessarily what Trump wants. So for. sure and you know Washington you know. you've been here a long time so you know. that a lame duck president is always. less able to intimidate his own party. But we've also seen many times that when. a lame duck president loses control of. some aspects of domestic policy. The one. area where they can still feel like a.

president is they get on Air Force One, they fly to some foreign country and. everyone is sucking up to them because. America's power is so absolutely. extraordinary. And so actually you can. get some quite dramatic foreign policies. and some very big foreign policy. ambitions out of lame dark presidents. >> Well, I don't think that was ever going. to happen. I mean Trump Trump is not a. normal president, not not a normal. person. He is an aberration and so he. would have been uh out out of the mold. right through to the end. The the real. issue is whether uh in that circumstance.

he doesn't spend more time on domestic. policy or more time on building his. ballroom. the drapes and carpets at the. Kennedy Center, putting more gold. filigree up in the White House. All of. those things are possible, but Trump's. erratic behavior in international. affairs has been demonstrated for 5. years. It won't change in the last three. years, no matter what. That's a danger. That's not something anybody should take. comfort in. It's something to worry. about until he leaves the office.

>> I guess if you're a pessimist, one of. the things that could outlive President. Trump is the damage to institutions. And. I think the damage to kind of the the. the politicization of the justice. system, the the the placing of people. who appear to be partisans in some very. powerful positions in say the legal. apparatus. You know, I don't think it's. an exaggeration to worry about kind of. creeping authoritarianism. Now, I know. you you can't talk about your case, but. you've been indicted on charges, the. alleged mishandling of classified. information. you pleaded not guilty, but.

other Trump critics have also found. themselves indicted, facing criminal. charges. There's fear in this town, Washington DC, right? People are people. who served in previous administrations. are frightened. Does this uh how far. does this go? How bad is this? >> I I think Trump is clearly breaking. norms right and left. He simply doesn't. acknowledge them. Uh and I think the. idea of a retribution presidency is is. quite accurate. I and others wrote about. it uh before he was elected to the.

second term and I think you see it being. carried out now. But I think ultimately. the constitution is strong. The. institutions are strong. Uh and Donald. Trump doesn't have the mental. wherewithal to be an authoritarian. This. is about what Donald Trump wants to do. uh and uh in the second term having. surrounded himself with people who are. quite content to salute uh rather than. point out potential difficulties he's. able to achieve a lot of things that are. very destructive there will be damage.

done there's no doubt about it but uh he. he's not Cataline he's not Cella he's. not Pompy at the end of the Roman. Republic and he's sure as hell not. Julius Caesar. >> but is it fair to say that people are. scared in this town. >> I think a lot of people are scared and I. think a lot of people are intimidated in. The answer to the bullying that Trump. engages in is to stand up to it. >> I think it's hard to disagree with you. that Donald Trump is breaking a lot. right now. That even the short-term. winds are building up long-term. distrust. Is it fixable? I mean, help.

our viewers understand what this looks. like in 10, 20 years time. >> Well, I think it's fixable, but it's. going to take time. the the the damage. that he has done by talking about. withdrawing American power and by acting. in ways that I think are contrary to our. best interest by by uh by intimidating. and uh uh and causing our allies to back. away from us in the hope that the. authoritarian states will make deals. that they'll adhere to is about as naive. a foreign policy approach as I can.

imagine. So I don't underestimate the. difficulty of the task but I think that. uh that the reaction in the United. States will be such that a lot of work. will be undertaken fairly quickly and. the the worst thing that uh our foreign. friends could do is assume that the c. that the US will behave like Trump. forever. If that were the case then I. would expect a certain kind of behavior. I don't expect that's going to be the. case and I think they need to think. about that. So when you have foreign. leaders like Chancellor Merittz of.

Germany uh at near the beginning of the. Trump term said we need independence. from the United States. I I'd be careful. about things like that because Trump in. the three years he had left could say. well fine if the Europeans want to be. independent we'll withdraw with NATO. We. don't want to impose ourselves on. anyone. Think about what comes after. Trump and calibrate the policies that. way. >> So your your final message is don't give. up on America. Keep the faith. >> Yeah. I I would never bet against. America. I mean, we we have made our.

mistakes. There's no doubt about it. But. we have come back again and again. And. uh until I see another alternative that. people in free societies should find. acceptable, I'd still bet on America.