Google DeepMind’s boss on AI, power, God and what’s next | The Economist

If you do achieve everything you wanted. to do, boss notwithstanding, you personally. would have the power of a leader of a. small country. Whether or not we should. be worried about AI, should we be. worried about you? Well, I mean people I think have to make. their own decisions about the lab. leaders, right? There's a lot of. information out there now about each of. the leaders. I think it's quite clear. the different approaches. I think you. need to, you know, also think about. people's motivations. What and why have. they got into AI? Why are they trying to. build this technology? For me, you know, it's it's from the very beginning why I.

spent my whole career, my whole life. really working on AGI, towards AGI last. 16 years at DeepMind, but even before. that, is. uh to use it as the ultimate tool for. science. You know, I just want to. understand what's going on here in in in. the universe and the big questions that. um you know, I was fascinated by as a. kid when studying physics. Um and I. think AI is my expression of like, okay, that's the way I think humanity can um. advance our understanding of the world. and and then apply it to really. important areas like medicine, uh and.

energy, and the environment. I was. reading a new biography of you, which I. should disclose was written by Sebastian. Mallaby, the husband of our. editor-in-chief. Um. in that I was struck by your spiritual, almost religious description of your. motivations here. You told him that. building AI will help you understand the. universe and your place in it. You were. raised a Baptist. How has that How has. religion played into your view of AI? Well, actually, I mean, in my home I was. My mom is is is religious, so she's the. Baptist, and my dad is an is an atheist.

So, I had both uh interesting inputs. when I was young, so I think that's. probably helped me to be quite. open-minded about things. I mean, first. and foremost, I think of myself as a. scientist, even before an entrepreneur. or, you know, a technologist. And um. that's the heart of what I'm trying to. do this for, and what what drives me. really is understanding the nature of. reality, ultimately. Um I just think. it's this incredible puzzle that's sort. of staring us in the face all the time. And um I think when you start thinking. about the world like that, uh many.

scientists like Einstein and others have. said before me, you know, then science. and philosophy and even religion, um. they're all about an art. They're all. about finding out, you know, what is our. place here in the universe? And uh what. is you know, what are we supposed to be. doing? And how is it that all of this. works around us? Uh and I think that's. the most uh fascinating question really. and something I'm still obsessed with. today. And I just think AI is the best. tool to help us um explore that. So, your peers, they joke or threat about.

building God. How does that sort of. language sit with you? No, I didn't like. it that that kind of language. I think. of this as a tool. That's how we're. trying to build it. Like a scientific. tool, like a telescope or a microscope. We build I mean, I think that's what. defines us as humans is we're. tool-making animals. And um I'm. incredible. Like look at what we built. modern civilization with our general. minds. Um and I think the other defining. feature of us is our insatiable. curiosity and our thirst for knowledge. And um and I think I'm just following in. that tradition really of of building.

ever more capable tools uh that allow us. to interrogate um. the fabric of reality. And they are also. ever more capable tools that pose ever. more serious threats. I mean, this is. the point where I have to ask you, are. you still worried about destroying. everything? Uh well, I there's definitely um you. know, I would the way I call it is. there's a non-zero chance that things. could go quite badly wrong if then if we. if the technology's not built in the. right way. I'm very optimistic given.

enough time and enough care and focus. Um I'm a big believer in human. ingenuity. If the best minds work on. this, obviously not just us, but our. colleagues from from the other. companies, um we will build this in the right way. and in a safe way. I think that's very. possible to do. Uh and then we'll get. all the benefits, you know, curing. diseases, helping with energy, all the. other big challenges that face um. society today. And so I think AI can be. one of those. technologies that helps us, kind of meta.

technology that helps us with all of the. solve all the other challenges that we. have. So I think the the potential is. enormous, but there but the risks are there too, right? We don't They're kind of unknown, I would say. And in that sort of. situation, I think cautious optimism is. the right way to approach it. So I'm. optimistic that these things can be. solved and they will be, but um but. we've got to be cautious and use the. sort of precautionary principle here as. we approach this AGI moment, which will. be, you know, one of the most. transformative moments in history. How.

do you act in a cautious way when you're. also locked in a, you know, competitive. pressure with other companies, with. other polities? You know, are you really just asking. everyone to to come together and stop. the competition? Well, I think it's hard. today. I mean, it's not what I. envisioned 20 years ago when I started. this out. I would have preferred there. to have been something more cooperative, maybe in the spirit of an international. CERN or something like that, where all. the best researchers sort of carefully. check each other's work and and as we.

approach this. event horizon. But. you know, the world isn't like that. today. There's multiple race conditions. going on, obviously between the. companies, but also between nations. So. it's it's and and and of course the. geopolitics of the world is more. fragmented than ever. So it seems hard. to see how you're going to get that. international cooperation, but I think. we should still try. And what I'm. hopeful of is that as we get closer to. AGI, maybe it's only, you know, 5 years. away or something, it'll become more. obvious to people, just as it has in the. last couple of years, how momentous AI.

is going to be, something I've known for. 20 years, but I think it's becoming more. obvious to everyone, also what the. attendant risks could be. And then I. think at least, I hope, there'll be some. sort of minimum standards or something. like that you could think of which can. be agreed on by at least the leading. labs. And that will be something to. build off on top of. You told one of my. colleagues last year just after winning. a Nobel Prize that you wrote a plan as a. teenager and winning a Nobel Prize was. on it. >> Yeah. Have we hit the end of your plan. yet? Do you Have you finally run out of. that that teenage goal or are you still.

just following it? >> it was it was an ambitious piece of. paper, but I I know, I think that the. most important work I've got to do is. still ahead, which is which is really. the my my life's mission, which is to, you know, get AGI safely over the line. for humanity, help that get safely over. the line for humanity uh to benefit. everyone in the world.