Christine Lagarde: “Europe-bashing is vastly excessive” | The Economist

I think that your bashing is vastly. excessive. And I think it's only as excessive as. the expectations about Europe. Europe was a dream. Europe was a promise. And the the key. original project of Europe back in those. days, 1957, was we've been at war with each other. We have killed thousands, if not. millions, of people on our land. Let's. make sure that this does not happen, and. we build peace amongst ourselves. And.

that project has been a a. a brutal success, if you look at it. >> Europe is now significantly behind the. United States. Whatever, you know, not. that long ago the GDPs were the same. size, now it's huge. We have been left. behind by the AI revolution. We have. unsustainable welfare states. And we. don't actually have very happy citizens. for all of this, because we have huge. populist populist nationalist backlashes. in many of our countries. >> of that in the US. There's a lot of that. in the US, but.

I would submit that what what we have in. Europe is neither sustainable nor. particularly vibrant. And and the and. I'm sure I've you've got you get this. too. I often get from people outside. Europe, it's great place to visit on. holiday, great place to have, you know, go to a museum, but it's not going to. make the future. Great place to um. receive health care. That's another one. Great place to age because the longevity. is much, much longer in Europe than it. is in many other advanced economies. Uh. great place to raise kids where there's.

not too much. um you know, killing at the uh. at at at the school um. entrance. It. I totally agree with you that by GDP. measurements, Europe is now lagging. behind. And if you look at, you know, GDP per capita, which I don't think is. actually the you know, the most. perfect way to measure a society, we. are, you know, sort of 40% behind the. US. If you look at the distribution of.

value, distribution of wealth. in, say, the United States versus. Europe, because this is the comparison. that you wanted to to apply. It's very different. But is it. better or worse in one place or the. other? It's for society and and people in. society to decide. It's operating under. a different model. And you you are. you're very clear about your preference. for Europe's choices over those of the. United States. And you now are somewhat.

infamously. walked out of a dinner in Davos, um it. was reported at that. where the US Secretary of Commerce. Howard Lutnick was particularly. aggressive in putting down Europe. Uh do. you. do you bridle at that? Or do you see it as a kind of. much-needed kick up the butt? I think we've been receiving a few kicks. in the butt, and I hope that this is. enough to get us to move. I think the. first kick in the butt was the Draghi. report. You know, 2 years ago,

uh Mario came out with this uh 450. pages, but with a list of so many. reforms that we had to undertake quickly. in order to restore our competitiveness. I think on that front there is progress, but as you said, it's not like this sort. of massive train that has just left the. station. It's more like trick omnibus, uh where we go from one omnibus to. another omnibus. But hopefully, there. will be some smart marketing experts who. say, "Okay, you know what? If you bring. all these omnibuses together, it's a.

massive train that has left the station, and which is transforming Europe." I. hope I can see that. The second kick in. the butt we received it from Donald. Trump. So, the first one was Draghi, the second. one was Trump. And I guess the third one. might have been Mark Carney. The. contempt with which. some members, many members of the Trump. administration regard Europe. is so striking to me that I I wonder. whether it is motivated not by a desire. for Europe to succeed, but just by a. sort of. general disdain for Europe.

I think US authorities, not necessarily. just the current ones, but US. authorities do not really understand. Europe. And it's a bit of a. it's a. it's a contradiction in terms because. the US authorities at the time were very. keen that Europeans be together, get. together, and form this this incredible. animal that Europe was. They pushed in.

that direction, contrary to what has. been said more recently. But I think the the the animal that has. been developed based on democratic. principles, based on the respect of the. member states sovereignty and autonomy. while being together as as a in a way I. mean we can debate ad nauseam, but as a. federation of of states. This is very. hard to understand. And this is not something that is new. because I remember vividly. US president presidents actually.

saying oh. the Europeans. And looking at it as a complication. Because member states are much easier to. understand. Added to which there's. always been a little bit of contempt. towards some European leaders. I. remember one European leader being. called the pompous ass by one US. president and I won't say who it was. >> there's probably worse, but I it. reminded me as you were saying that. Wasn't it Henry Kissinger who used to. say there's no one I can call in Europe? And I think there is a So So it's.

interesting cuz you you put then some of. this down to. just simply a lack of understanding of. Europe. An [snorts] an alternative or perhaps. additional explanation which is the the. reason the support in some quarters in. the United States, particularly in the. MAGA movement for the populist. nationalist right in Europe is clearly. designed to undermine Europe or it's. based on extreme ignorance, but I assume. it's designed to undermine Europe. So, there is a. That's where That's what I'm getting at. when I think I think some of this is not.

just we don't get it. It's actually we. don't want Europe to succeed. That can very well be the case as well, but if that is the case, it shows that. Europe is strong or Europe has the. potential to be very strong, which is. not something that others might like, especially if they compete with us.