World Leading Sex Therapist: How To Avoid Having Bad Sex: Kate Moyle | E73

is the question everyone wants the. answer to it. what is the single biggest killer of. relationships in the modern age. let's talk about sex today's podcast is. very very different but incredibly. incredibly important. today i'm sitting down with kate moyle. who is a sex therapist. and a relationship therapist to talk. about some of the taboos topics.

which we don't normally discuss things. like erectile dysfunction. sexual inadequacies issues we all have. in our relationships and sex lives. the single biggest killer of. relationships in 2021. sexual anxiety how to keep a sexual. relationship exciting. and everything in between i'm going to. share some very personal sexual stories. that i've never shared before some of. the things i've gone well and some of. the problems that i've had that have. caused relationships that have meant the. world to me to end this is a very. very honest open podcast today you know.

this is why this is called the diary. of a ceo and kate is the perfect person. to put them to. so i think you're going to enjoy this. conversation i certainly did. i feel very vulnerable sharing some of. these stories with you. but as i always say just keep it to. yourself so without further ado this is. the diary of a ceo. i hope nobody's listening but if you are. then please keep this to yourself.

sex i think i think it's fair to say. that. everybody has some kind of. challenge with sex at least some point. you know at least at some point within. their life. and i am no different in fact my last. relationship. which was a very i thought i i genuinely. at one point thought that was going to. be my wife. um the reason that relationship broke. down was because. of a sexual issue and a sexual issue. that showed up about seven or eight.

months into the relationship. and um long story short i know this. isn't a therapy session but it kind of. is as well. um at some point seven eight months into. our relationship she told me that she. didn't like having sex. and i didn't know what that meant and as. a guy that's never experienced that in. my life. um i read into it probably in. the wrong way but it definitely made me. insecure i was like what you don't like. having sex how's that possible. and i thought that was some kind of um.

condemnation on me i thought that was. something negative towards me or. something that i was doing wrong and i. tried. various things i tried to to be a bit. more under you know listen a little bit. more to what she wanted and how she. wanted it. and then it you know it progressively. got to a point where. i was getting in bed and i was [ __ ]. myself. because you don't want to once you get. rejected i've never been like i've never. gone to have sex with someone in my life. and been rejected in that way and so you. get in bed and you don't want to. even ask them for sex because you might.

take an l and you don't want to take. that l. and then how how the hell am i meant to. get an erection as a guy. when i'm that [ __ ] scared of. rejection. and eventually long story short we're in. um we're away one time and. the same issue happened and she we were. having sex and i clearly i was looking. at her thinking she clearly isn't. enjoying this at all. and we stopped she started crying she. said. um i've got a problem um she said like. uh you know i just don't enjoy sex i. need to like address it. i said to her you want to talk about it.

she said i'm not comfortable talking. about sex with you. even though we've been in a relationship. for a year and i left and then i broke. up with her. and i do regret breaking up with her. because. um i did so maybe too flippantly. and i didn't understand it and i didn't. think it was fixable and i didn't know. how to fix it and. yeah sorry for my brain you know my. dumping that on you but good place to. start no i think and. you know so much of what you've just. said there's so many points there that. you know i hear all the time so.

difficulties with desire. struggles with communication struggles. with knowing like where to start in. terms of talking about it. anxiety you know all of these points. which can kind of get in the bedroom. with us or be in bed with us. and we just don't know how we're. meant to address them we don't know what. we're meant to do about them. and we all feel that sense of what am i. doing wrong here or what's wrong with me. do i have a problem am i broken you know. all of these phrases and actually.

working with all of the information that. you've just given me. you know as an example we can kind of. target or work with. each of those problems in an individual. way which isn't. terrifying for people which doesn't. create more anxiety which doesn't damage. self-esteem. but we don't have those conversations in. a bigger. more normalizing way yeah and i think. one of the biggest things that i talk. about. is this idea that sex like everything. else across our lives has good days.

bad days average days variability but we. expect there to be this. constant and we expect it to be. protected from everything else that we. have going on in our lives and that just. isn't the case but and somewhat. automatically right like we kind of. expected to take care of itself. yeah and relationships as well we kind. of expect that. you know once they're good they're. always good that they. shouldn't falter that we shouldn't have. to work at them that. they shouldn't struggle and i think that. there's such.

a problem with that as a basic. foundation message around sex and. relationships. how do you refrain that then how do i. reframe my thinking in order to make. sure that. i'm i guess that is a reframing of my. thinking if i think that this thing. isn't going to take care of itself. and it needs to be worked on like. everything else in my life i guess. that's the answer to keeping it exciting. yeah i mean i think there's just a. normalizing of the fact that. our sex lives and our relationships are. in the context of us. they're not isolated they're not.

protected they don't have their own kind. of. special area where they aren't impacted. by. how we feel about ourselves stress. anxiety our health our mental health. you know physically what's going on for. us um psychologically what's going on. for us but. why don't we just give ourselves a break. and but you know what. we're not perfect or good or great at. everything else we do. all the time so why would we be here i. don't. think you know i think as professionals. we often talk about like why aren't we. applying the logic. that we apply everywhere else in our.

lives. to this this part of our lives and in. that particular case with me and my. this this particular person um she. turned to me i remember we were away one. time and she said to me. you know there's loads of people that. are like me that don't have like a high. libido or whatever. and i have just never encountered these. people in my experiences so i thought oh. that's rubbish. was she right yes yes and how right is. she. very right and you know we understand. that you know this is a huge part of the.

conversation. around sex lives at the moment and. sexual wellness at the moment is. this idea about desire desire's not a. fixed concept. that we're born with we're not kind of. given or. holding a set amount it's not like we. kind of have an amount and we like use. it up. it is context dependent it's responsive. and. we understand that it changes but. actually how we can change that within. kind of take power of our own i suppose.

or change that within the context that. we're in how we can feel. in control of that is based in. almost how we define it or how we. understand it ourselves and there's a. huge. problem we're just thinking okay well i. had it now i don't have it in the same. way anymore. so what's wrong with me or. what's broken or what changed or what's. not working here rather than. if i reframe my understanding my. thinking about this it makes a lot more. sense and it takes the pressure off and.

when the pressure's off. then i can work with this in a more. pleasure focused enjoyable way. rather than an anxiety provoking and. stressful way. what should i have done so the first. time she turns to me she says. steve i'm just not that interested. because what it was is we're in bed. and we're away on a holiday and i like. you know just i don't know what i do. whatever i do to. to let someone know that when i have sex. i don't know stroke their arm or. whatever. i did whatever i do and she was just. like. nah and what should i have done then.

because you know. i think a lot of people would take that. as a. bit of an l and i certainly did i was. like what i was and i was angry as well. not like visibly angry not like you know. hitting with a pillow or anything but i. was like i turned i remember turning. away and thinking. you know like because i'd never. experienced that before i've never. experienced that like. it is a form of rejection it's like a. form of it's a. kick in the self-esteem what should i. have done. well i think you know i can't talk to. what was going on for you two.

like kind of in in that moment then but. you know. the biggest problem that couples in. situations like that have. is assumption so as you said like this. is the kick in the teeth for me like. that hurts i feel rejected. so we internalize and actually the best. way for us to deal with something like. that. is to try and explain to try and move. away from assumption. to explanation to understanding because. actually if we can have a conversation. which. opens up and you know we you hear sex.

next relationship experts talk about. communication being. you know the kind of biggest pillar of. sexual wellness or sexual well-being and. assumption kind of and the gap between. expectations and reality. is actually the biggest place that we. have a lot of these problems and i think. that it. feels like you know that's a good. example of that happening. fast forward four months uh the same. sort of. issue happened and she turned to me and.

this is when i thought it was completely. over. is she said to me i'm not comfortable. with talking to you about sex. right and we've been together for a year. and i thought well if we can't talk. about it. and i don't really understand the issue. and you're not willing to talk about it. then we are [ __ ] and i thought and. that's when i left. i left that country um soon after and. i broke up with her maybe like i don't. know two three weeks later. because i thought if we can't talk about. it then how do we fix the situation.

but i do regret it because i think i. reflect and i think. i don't want to be the type of guy. generally that when they care about. someone will walk away from it so easily. and i think i should have made a more. active effort to try and support. as you say and understand maybe but. i would say sometimes the hardest person. to talk to about sex is the person we're. having it with. yeah because of it's so loaded. it's so like intimate it's so vulnerable. and also.

the fear of getting it wrong or making. it worse. or leading our partners on or going in. the wrong direction or. us not being able to unhear what we've. heard or unsay what we've said. so actually you know that natural human. response to. feeling anxiety around something is. avoidance you know we don't tend to. approach the sources of our anxiety. unless we're trying really hard. to hone in on it or focus on it our most. natural instinct is. i don't want to go there you know like. it's just easier to keep the status quo. even if that status quo.

isn't working and so it's. it's about thinking about how do we how. do we help people. to approach that source of anxiety or. feel empowered. to change their conversation around sex. because. it's really it's really hard it's like. talking in a language that. we've not been taught you know we're not. taught how to have these conversations. we're not taught to be comfortable about. these conversations we're not taught. that sex is normalized as a topic and. then. we're expected to all be experts and.

that our partners. are going to be experts and we're all. expecting that from each other and then. when it doesn't work. you know we have no solutions or ways of. knowing. how to deal with it now some of us. muddle through we kind of work it out. we're like okay well. let's try this or think about this or. take expert advice or listen to a. podcast or read a book or. get the information and we can kind of. work our way through it but for a lot of. us that's way too intimidating you know. sex feels. like an off the record you know off the.

table topic. how do you bring on the table how do and. i'm presuming that. couples that are successful in the. bedroom are those that. bring it on the table to some degree is. that a fair assumption or. yeah i think that's definitely a fair. assumption i think that. you know it takes the courage to do it. it takes the kind of sitting in the. uncomfortable it might be quite anxiety. breaking obviously some people kind of. seek out therapy or external advice or. someone that can help them. manage those conversations or they might. do it in their.

own way so it might be kind of reading a. book and sharing that with each other. or listening to a ted talk and then. sharing that with each other and using. that as a. springboard to have that conversation. but i would say it's. talking about it outside of the bedroom. is the biggest way to. put it on the table and is it possible. to be just like sexually incompatible. with someone yeah i think it is and the. way it's think you know impossible. possible to be incompatible with. anything else. but what we can also do is you know when.

we have different interests or different. preferences in other areas of our lives. we can work together to negotiate that. to manage that to kind of. work to each other's kind of preferences. or and kind of switch that around or. manage that. manage that kind of relational bit that. kind of bit in between. and it is possible to do that with sex. but also for some people. they might have deal breakers and they. might not be able to meet those for each. other. this is i don't know if this is too much.

information but i don't think i care. um i i remember one day as well i tried. to introduce because i typically when i. have sex i typically use. a lot of additional apparatus so i'll. use all kinds of stuff i don't care like. i'll use handcuffs and all kinds of. ropes and toys and whatever else and i. remember trying to introduce something. like that because i thought maybe it. would make it a little bit more. interesting for her. and um she was like absolutely not she. she said to me that she thought i think. it was a vibrator she.

thought a vibrator was for old people. and you know i'm already up i'm really. up against it here that's so i'm trying. to. like do something to help and when she. said that i just thought like maybe we. are just like sexually incompatible. maybe. just we just speak two different. languages here so. i don't know but you know like sometimes. one part nina. what i would say is it's actually more. common for couples to not be perfectly. sexually matched. yeah than it is for them to be like. perfectly sexually matched in every way. and for some people they are more ready.

to try something or you know. they might be the one that leads. something and then the other partner. kind of catches up or. it's really in about also kind of like. how we perceive what our partner is. suggesting. or how we what we think that means. because one of the things about. sex is we have this idea as humans about. like metacognition like we think about. our thoughts. we think about what that our thoughts. mean and. i think it's really really apparent when.

it comes to sex and relationships. because we're trying to constantly. analyze what's happening or as you said. kind of looking out for like the risk of. rejection or the fear of rejection we're. trying to understand. what that means about us or what that. means about them or what it means about. our relationship and so we're. always trying to i suppose think about. like what's going on. and the wider context or meaning of that. now when it comes to sex. we're already in a culture and a society.

where it's a bit. taboo where it's quite stigmatized where. we don't necessarily. want to kind of step outside the norms. or the expectations because what does. that mean about us. as a person i you know since that um. whole. event i you know we we spoke a little. bit after we broke up and she she told. me that was actually the first time she. told me that she had like a low libido. and i actually didn't really understand. what that meant so i googled it. but then i started talking to some. friends about it specifically some male. friends.

and i had another male friend say to me. one of my best friends said to me that. he also had the same problem where he. just lost his um. sexual desire um in you know when he got. to a certain age which i i was. shocked about because you don't people. don't have these conversations so you. don't think it happens. so when we encounter it whether it's in. the bedroom or wherever else. um yeah it really feels like a real. anomaly but. how how common is low libido and also. what are the. what are the typical causes of someone. having a low libido i think really.

common. and i think you know like so much of the. stuff we don't. have huge and huge amounts of at least. up to date like sex research so you know. it's something that people are really. trying to kind of develop in the space. but what we understand when we think. about. desire so we've got desire and we've got. arousal so arousal the body's physical. ability to kind of prepare for sex the. desire the want to be. sexual and what we understand is that. it typically changes across.

relationships. and what feels really difficult about it. is that at the start of relationships. when everything is new and exciting. we're getting to know each other we're. exploring. it feels like desire is very high we're. kind of leaning into that because it's a. way of getting to know each other a way. of connecting with that person. and it's kind of what we understand is. it's triggered i suppose. a lot because a lot of the situations we. find ourselves in. are novel are kind of tuning into also. the area of our brain that likes the new.

things that likes the excitement. and we have that sense of wanting to get. closer to that person wanting to get to. know them now. also what we see particularly this is. with a relationship focus. is there's like exchange of kind of like. novelty newness the unknown exploration. for like routine security safety getting. to know someone so we kind of see these. things. switching out almost and so. it's just actually that as we get kind. of more used to each other. there are less of those kind of.

triggering like exciting moments which. are where desire can tend to thrive and. what we need to do is. perhaps just slightly more consciously. or with a bit more of an effort. put in the time to create those spaces. now chuck in i mean you know the year. we've found. ourselves in where no one's had any kind. of personal space or independence. or ability to go away and come back. together kind of change of context but. technology the kind of well third and. fourth if there's two people in the. relationship. wheels that are constantly taking our.

attention kind of demanding us. you know distracting us so we're missing. signals from our partners we're missing. those kind of i suppose quality time. moments we're constantly notified or. we're distracted. and actually then it's harder for us. to give each other our full attention to. kind of sit down and focus on each other. to have the things that promote. connection eye contact touch we're. constantly kind of. looking around and connecting i suppose.

with everyone apart from the person. actually that we're it creates a barrier. and so how do you know you get five 10. 15 20 years into relationship. um and you've started to get you know. secure and. things are predictable how do you this. is probably the most. you know popular question i'm sure you. get which is like how do you keep it. fresh what advice would you give me to. keep my sex life with a partner i've. been with for x amount of years. still fresh exciting and uh yeah. exploratory. um yeah i think it's i mean it's the.

question everyone wants the answer. right it's it is about. a.s first thing acknowledging that it. might. be different to how it used to be so. again one of the biggest hurdles people. can get kind of tripped over on is it's. not the same. as it used to be or it changed now. why does that mean it's worse you know. actually perhaps the quality of the sex. that people might be having might be. better because. they know each other better they.

understand each other's bodies better. they feel more in tune with each other. so it's understanding that you might be. in a different phase. or stage and that's okay it doesn't have. to be. you know that famous phrase the. honeymoon period that kind of everybody. quotes or goes back to so i think that. is one thing. and i think actually kind of carving out. the time and the space and the effort. and not seeing that as a bad thing not. seeing that. as problematic that we have to be a bit.

more conscious of that part of our. relationships. is a huge huge factor because what. the kind of common narrative we see in. like society i suppose is. if i have to make an effort for this. then there must be something wrong with. that because sex. should be spontaneous should be. something that just happened. that's what it says in the movies which. is part of the problem right because. that's one of the most easily accessible. visual. versions of sex that we have we don't.

see into other people's sex lives in the. same way now what we do see. is social media or pictures of couples. or images of couples or. and we make assumptions about. them we make assumptions about they look. happy but they have great sex yeah in. porn it's just like the gardener's like. outside and then. eli comes in and the husband's away and. then like it's just. boom perfect lasts an hour everyone. looks like they're having a great time. but one of the one of the best phrases. that i heard and you know um.

is trying to learn about sex from porn. is like learning to drive from watching. the fast and the furious. and it's one of the things that i go. back to i wish i knew you said it and if. you know please. tell me so you can claim it um but. porn wasn't designed as an educational. tool. but a lot of people have used it as one. and that's again i mean like every man. ever and also women to be fair like i. think men have this bias where we think. women don't watch porn. but then you ask a woman you know and. i've asked several of my ex-girlfriends.

if they've watched porn and oh yeah. they do some of them do but i'd say and. this is a general. and i'd love you to correct me here. because i i'd love to not be i love to. be corrected on. things like this where i'm so naive i i. tend to believe that like 90. of my male friends watch porn and then i. think it's probably like 50 of my female. friends. do you know the numbers is that i don't. know the numbers but i. you know we know that women watch porn. we know that there are also a huge rise. of like female-friendly female-focused. pornography platforms kind of coming. forward and i think that.

a lot of those ideas again tie into. these old stereotypes and narratives. about like male sexuality and female. sexuality. and then you know we're trying to change. the conversation around this and i think. that it's also about. recognizing that they're not these kind. of like two like. so separate entities and actually that. we can understand. that we're all sexual creatures and we. all have our. own versions of sexuality and what that. doesn't mean is that. it has to again kind of line up with the.

narratives that have always been there. which is like men do this women do this. but are there distinctions between um. sexual appetite and the type of. representation of sex that. men and women typically want to see i. was going to ask you a question which. kind of. alludes to the same answer but it's like. if you were to create a point because. you said there's men there's now. sites emerging which are like female. friendly i'm like what's the what's the. what's the difference what what's how do. they. i suppose well you know one of the.

things that um a lot of these sites. they're creating. is a focus on kind of female pleasure. in a way which is that what we know for. example is that the majority of women. um or like the most common way of. bringing women to orgasm is through. direct literal stimulation but for. example in. not necessarily porn but in the movies. we never see that. and so then everyone is kind of. replicating what they see in the movies. and no wonder it's not quite working so. i think that there's also.

educational elements starting to kind of. come forward and a lot of that kind of. content as well. i guess that makes sense if the demand. for pornography has. been skewed male then what you're seeing. in the pornography would also be catered. to what a male. likes to believe is. you know men as you like alluded to that. men typically get their. arousal from like what do they call it. vaginal penetration. i guess that's not intercourse yeah or.

intercourse whatever but. women would typically get reach like an. orgasm via. clitoral stimulation so porn tends to. reflect the. the former um so. has has porn been a a a positive or. negative impact on. um our perceptions and images of what. our. own sexual relationship should be like. do you think oh that's. such a big question is it again it's the. one that everyone wants to know the.

answer to i think. that the problem that we've seen is when. people have used it as an educational. resource and that's not how it was. designed. um now what it has offered. is people who are exploring their. sexuality and feel that it doesn't fit. for example the. norm or expected norm you know however. you want whatever terminology you want. to use for that. it's offered those people a sense of. community. or safety in exploring or belonging or. knowing that they're not alone not.

isolated in their experience. and so there are you know like. everything in life there's going to be. huge pros and cons and like anything in. life is how people use. anything but i think for me. you know working with people with sexual. problems and relationship problems. isolation or feeling alone in your. experience. is probably the biggest side effect or. negative side effect. on mental health or on the problem. itself.

of what they're experiencing of what. they're struggling with. and so combating that which in a way is. where therapy helps you know we're kind. of. sharing that conversation we know that. shame thrives in silence we're starting. to externalize we're starting to talk. about these things. is making people feel they're not alone. is massive i am. one of the things you said i read that. you had said before. which i thought was really good advice. especially as it relates to keeping sex.

like fresh and exciting was just to. change one thing every time. um and i wanted to for you to tell me. why. you think that's important and how that. helps it goes back to some of the themes. you've talked about. but it was one of the things that i. thought. i could immediately do in my own sex. life to keep things. continually fresh yeah and what are. those small things that you're referring. to when you say. i suppose what i like about that is it's. actionable so it's this idea. that we can all be like empowered and in. control to.

do something in our sex lives and you. know like. one of the the phrases we hear kind of. all the time is that mixing it up. spicing it up and what i think people. get intimidated by. is the idea that they have to do. something massive to do that that they. have to. you know go out like buy a whole new. wardrobe. yeah exactly or try something that. they've like never done before. or you know buy 25 sex stories or. um you know try everything like and.

that in itself then becomes a barrier to. people trying it because they're like oh. god that sounds scary. expensive as well but you know like. that i it's that um god like how am i. gonna do that there's no stepping stone. to that it's a whole like bridge a whole. jump. and that puts people off so again we're. back to that avoidance thing you know. what i'll just stay in my safe zone i'll. stay in my comfort zone i'll stay where. i. am like the idea of trying that and it. not working or trying that and it. failing. feels way scarier than where we're at.

right now and so i think that idea of. like changing one thing every time. is it's also that routine doesn't. kind of help or promote or um. kind of encourage desire because we're. like oh i know what's coming. i know how this is going to go and what. we're then doing is we're more likely to. kind of let our thoughts wander or be. distracted and we see that with people. you know they're like i know it's going. to go so actually. i wasn't really noticing what was. happening in my body or that experience. i was thinking about like everything i.

need to do tomorrow. and so what it does is it works. as a way of encouraging breaking up. routine now these are small things. like having the lights on or having the. lights off starting with your clothes on. or your clothes off. keeping your underwear on or underwear. off using lube or not. you know taking intercourse off the. table for that. evening and just focusing on. non-penetrative sex trying a sex toy. or you know putting even something. simple that i talk about is. putting like your pillows on the other.

end of your bed so your room feels. different. like lighting candles changing your. smell having a shower or not you know. doing it in the street you can get. arrested for that. but um you know it's that idea of these. are all. accessible within range non-intimidating. things. that we can try to create. shifts and changes my journey with huel. has intensified. a lot over the last six to 12 months the. the untold story of a healthy diet and a.

nutritionally complete diet is how you. feel and really that's a much more. important thing because actually how you. feel. is the sort of precursor to you having. the motivation the discipline and the. state of mind. that will help you go to the gym and. follow through on your goals. and i feel amazing i don't think i've. ever felt better i've never had more. energy i've been sleeping amazingly well. my sort of mental cognition has been. sharper than it ever has before. but i just feel good right and you often. just get to see the physical effects.

that having a nutritionally complete. diet could have. but there are all of these other impacts. and other effects which are so much more. important. and as i said are the precursor to the. positive physical. um effects you see so yeah you know it's. one thing. having a podcast sponsor that pays you. money but it's another thing having a. podcast. sponsor who you genuinely believe can. help people change their lives for the. better. is it possible for some you know because. i've got this one friend and i'm sorry. for just rinse one of my friends here. i've got this one friend.

yeah this is a problem with being. friends with me you always appear in the. podcast if you've got any slight like. peculiarity about you um and like i feel. like all of my friends. have been mentioned in this podcast at. least once they just don't know where. they're being mentioned. but i've got this one friend who is a. guy. and he i've known him maybe 10 years and. i've. i don't think he's ever had sex and he's. maybe 27 28 years old whatever. and i don't believe he's ever had sex. i've never i've never seen him in a. relationship. he doesn't talk to girls at all or guys.

for that matter um and i don't it's just. so unusual because. in our in our friendship group we talk. about sex a lot so we're always talking. about you know who we're sleeping with. in various things. and we've basically just learned to just. not have the conversation with him. or when he's there you know if we're. just like joking with each other as. friends. we will never joke with him because it's. just this big question mark and none of. us know the answer. um and i think my conclusion has been. maybe he's just.

asexual if that's the thing yeah that's. the thing. and what is that thing and what and if. you i'm sure you've heard about this. before right. what is what's going on well i mean like. we we don't know what's going on for. that person but you know asexuality is. is some is an identity you know like. people who don't experience sexual. attraction. and what that also doesn't mean so we. have asexuality and aromanticism. so those are two different concepts so. what we can see is that people can have. successful relationships and be. asexual because they can have connection.

and. friendship and intimacy and we can see. that people who. um are so we can understand that. it's not a kind of like pairing. necessarily and something i also talk. about is. we can have intimacy without sex and sex. without intimacy now. what a group that i've also worked with. is lots of people who have. such bad sexual anxiety and this is in. no way me saying what's going on for. your friend but. that that limits them in sexually.

exploring. or taking their sex life to where they. want to go or dating or seeing people. because. what it can feel a bit like is if we get. on the ladder of for example. meeting someone or dating then we get. closer towards. the source of our anxiety which might be. sex and i think that. people who haven't had sexual. experiences and i suppose bear in mind. you're only. viewing this from your perspective. rather than speaking to the person. you've been speaking to um is that.

that kind of it can feel like a snowball. effect of a new. something that i talk a lot about in. therapy with people that i'm working. with this. this snowball effect of okay well the. older i get. the more i feel that this is a worry or. the more i feel other people will judge. me or the. more i feel that i won't match up to. what's expected of me. or that i will get kind of found out and. i think that. these anxieties around sex are also. because what we assume. is sexuality in people so we kind of.

assume everyone's sexually active it. goes back to that point about. feeling isolated or alone in our. experience. everybody else is doing it so what's. wrong with me. and that the problem we have when it. comes to sex. is we can't know with people until we. check it out. we can't know until we we're judging. someone's. inside world based on what we see from. the outside and actually what we know. with sex is that. they don't always match up there's no.

way of really knowing until we for. example. you know sit down with a therapist and. unpack it or sit down with a friend or a. family member or whoever that is we. share. you know a partner that conversation. with. i think there's also like i was just. thinking then about there's also this. like wider philosophical question of. like what is the purpose of sex. because if you see sex as being you know. just to ejaculate. then you know you might encounter a. bunch of issues there because. the the role that sex is playing for. your partner. might be a completely different one so i.

guess at first you have to. understand what role sex plays in. relationships uh to your partner but. also to yourself. like is that how would you define the. purpose or the role of sex what is it. why do we do it and what's it for we're. going to make a sexual therapist have. you yet. are we having my job in a minute i know. you'll see tomorrow instagram page it's. like sex with steve. it's just everything you've said um. so one of my favorite pieces of research. and anyone who's listened to my podcast.

or any of the interviews and stuff i. know is going to be so bored of hearing. me bang on about this is. a paper called why humans have sex um. and it was done in 2007. and it identified 237 reasons for why. humans. the motivations for why people have sex. and. there is such a wide breadth of those. and that might be um you know my.

favorite my favorite one from that study. is um because i was cold. because i wanted to get warm but we can. understand that you know it might be. because. i want an orgasm because my partner. looked hot because um. i wanted to feel close to them because i. wanted to show them i loved them because. because because because. so the meaning of sex goes be. so beyond the what of what we're doing. but. we are so focused on the what all the. time and then we get so tangled up. in everything that's kind of.

psychologically going on for us. and i think that you know sometimes. we're thinking about the why you know. what does it represent in our. relationship if we're in a relationship. what does it represent to us if we're. single. what does it represent to us if actually. the sexual relationship we have is. just with ourselves you know i think. that. thinking about that is such a big part. of us understanding ourselves sexually. there's definitely emotional elements. but there's also like a physical. uh prehistoric maybe evolutionary role. that sex plays right.

and has that been somewhat lost upon us. now like. because my body my body you know the. chemicals in my body will start tickling. me and telling me that i'm horny. and then you know that will drive me. into action. you know i feel like the the role the. sort of prehistoric evolutionary role of. sex has been lost upon us a little bit. especially now that you know we have all. this contraception and we can swerve. having kids so i think it's become a bit. of a sport for many people. well sex is about pleasure isn't it did.

you know you tell me. well you know i think you know well what. we see is that the majority of the. reasons that people have sex are not to. do with procreation. yeah and also the the problem is. i think something you kind of said. earlier um. was it's so gold it can be so goal. orientated. now again this is where. so many people struggle with sex because.

if sex is goal orientated and as you. said like the goal is. to orgasm or to ejaculate or to. finish then what happens if that doesn't. happen. we feel like we've failed yeah and so. what it creates then is this. goal-orientated kind of. pass or fail model for sex now the. complete irony of that is if we're. struggling. and we're focused on where we need to. get to as a goal. the act of focusing on where we need to. get to is actually the thing that is.

most. likely to not get us there because it's. preventative because. if we are in the moment enjoying what. we're doing. experiencing kind of pleasure and. sensations and. able to enjoy it then that's actually. the thing that's probably most likely to. get us there but if we're so distracted. by the negative thoughts that are going. on in our heads we're so distracted by. our concerns our worries that is going. to break down that kind of process of us.

getting there. because i know a lot of people only. every sentence i say sounds so strange. i think i know a lot of people that. struggle with orgasms but i know i've. spoken to some of my girlfriends and. i've asked i've asked them. if they've orgasmed in fact my one of my. ex-girlfriends. she said to me that she had basically. never had an orgasm in her life. um which i obviously is a guy you find. quite well. well not obviously but as a guy that has. never had that problem i found that. quite peculiar and i wondered why.

why some people can orgasm so easily and. then some people are. find it a lot more difficult um in this. particular case my suspicions were that. it was. an emotional thing in fact what you've. just described there about worry. this is one of the people that i know. that's very very tense about the topic. of sex and i just thought. you know my suspicion again super naive. was that they're not. knowing this person um they would. probably not be able to relax. in bed and then when i when they became. a sexual partner of mine.

i thought yeah they're just like not. relaxed at all but i wanted to get your. take on why some. some people find it so easy to orgasm. and then some people just can't at all. well i think it also goes back to. almost like the first time you know. early messages about this stuff as well. you know early messages about what it's. like to have these experiences what it's. like to be. sexual you know is it something that's. never been talked about is it something. that's shrouded in shame is it something. that. we um think that we shouldn't be doing.

or we think about ourselves a certain. way for doing and so. there's so many components to this as a. conversation. and you know probably um too many you. know longer than we have time for but. there's the idea of how we again think. about what we're doing. how we know and learn about our bodies. what we know and learn about our bodies. how we. discover what works for us and our. preferences so there's the physical. element you know we talk about an orgasm. as a peak pleasure experience. but also how we feel about it because if.

we're feeling. shame or embarrassment or that we. shouldn't be doing this. that is going to be something which. again gets in the way of us. being able to fully let go and enjoy. ourselves or giving ourselves. in therapy we talk a lot about this idea. of giving ourselves permission. to be sexual or to let go. or to enjoy ourselves or to experience. pleasure. again this is super naive but an orgasm. is a pretty natural thing isn't it it's. like a. natural physiological reaction to.

stimulation. so again super naive just i will just. disclaimer from here on out that. everything i say is largely naive and. i'll stop disclaimering every sentence. but. so one would assume that if you know if. we're struggling to orgasm then there's. something. maybe emotional maybe even physical. that's being going unmet. there might be something physical going. on but you know it's. there's probably like something. emotional going on but it's also about. you know have we learned. to do this like have we learned to kind. of.

experience pleasure enough to take us. there and also once we do then we're. like okay i understand. how my body works now i understand how. that feels and. i think for lots the lack of sex. education here is. a huge part of the problem you know. pleasure has historically. been left out of the conversation and. particularly female pleasure. who are your who are your clients who. who comes to you with. the sex issues and challenges the most. normal people with normal problems you.

know everyday people for. every difference um genders you know. both men and women i work with both. couples and individuals. i have a lot of younger clients so a lot. of my clients are kind of in that. sub 45 age bracket but i work with a lot. of people. in their kind of early 20s and i think. that the early 20s kind of. 30s but also there's there's. a couple of things that are going on one. is that therapy has become much. less taboo in itself and sex much less. taboo and we have this kind of.

corner of therapy which is psychosexual. therapy where. i think people recognize that it now. can be a solution or that sexual. problems aren't just. medical that actually there can be. something psychological or emotional. going on. and i think that the idea of accessing. help for this stuff now. has become much more normalized which is. brilliant i think you know and much. needed and there are some amazing. amazing. sexual experts and sexual therapists in.

this country who. you know i hope are really being and i. know have really been used by people to. help them improve this part of their. lives and i think that. again a part of it is any other aspect. of our life. we would go and see a doctor. or go and see a physio or go and see a. nutritionist or whatever it is. you know if another part of if a part of. our body wasn't working. we would access help for it without. feeling embarrassed you know if we'd. injured our knee.

we wouldn't feel embarrassed about going. to ask someone about that but why when. it comes to sex. do we feel that we shouldn't access the. help and then. the longer we're struggling with that. the more of a problem that becomes. because we don't just have the original. problem but how we think and feel about. it. but is there like is there like an age. range where. people are more likely to go into a. sexual therapist. no i don't think there is then i think.

evenly distributed from like. 20 to 80. yeah really i mean. and i think you know again it's a bit. about life stages. isn't it you know what are people. looking to explore at different stages. we see for example people might go after. a. cancer diagnosis or cancer treatment or. for example around menopause. or that there are certain health. conditions that impact sexuality or. you know common side effect of a lot of. anti-anxiety medications and. antidepressants are an impact on sex. lives.

or it might be that someone is starting. their sexual experiences or they've. had a relationship where sex has been a. problem and they don't want to carry. that. on into their next relationship i think. that it's about. understanding like what has brought that. person to therapy. at that time is a big part of. for me as a therapist anyway kind of. exploring what's going on for that. person what's the trigger. for dealing with it now polygamy. um do you have a lot of people come to. you with. in polygamous relationships so you mean.

like polyamory like multi-part. multi-part relationships and what are. the issues typically that um. you'd see with yeah polyamorous. polygamous relationships. yeah i think that it's something that. people have a lot of questions about. um it's something that you know i've. talked about on. my podcast because it's what people are. curious about. um because it's also a breaking away. from our. kind of heteronormative like. mono-normative model. of relationships and i think the big.

questions that people have. are how do we do this you know how do we. navigate this how do we manage it and. that's about working out what the rules. are for those people you know. how do they hold what are the rules for. them. that work for them how do they. understand the rules you know rules. around things like disclosure rules. around. things like how much detail do we go. into how do we manage this. but actually communication for lots of. those relationships.

is really good because they have to be. really good in order to. manage that different style of being or. you know also just the practicalities of. there being more than two partners in a. relationship. i've always wondered if it would cause a. lot more problems but i guess you've. answered it there it's about studying. selling clear rules and. having effective communication my next. my next question again which i was. really excited to ask you was like. what's the and this is a super hard. question. so just get ready yeah what are what are.

the things that. men don't and typically don't understand. about women when it comes to sex and. vice versa it's a hard question isn't it. it is a hard question i was just. thinking i was thinking because i know. men are super naive and we watch. we're exposed to a certain type of media. and content and then we like rush into. the bedroom thinking that. i don't know our partners want to be i. don't know. tied up or dominated or whatever else. and then from the other perspective. you know when you speak to a woman about. sex and what she's looking for. there's obviously she's experienced a.

certain type of media but she also is. i think typically again with being super. binary here. typically a woman is is is um. has a slightly different expectation. from the man from my experiences anyway. i think part of the problem in that is. that binary approach. is that if there's something that i. would want everyone to understand it's. that. we can be different but we are also so. similar um.

you know and like this idea about like. performance. when it comes to sex is hugely. detrimental to. everyone um and. again probably like what is one of the. biggest things i want everyone to think. about is. the assumptions you know what are the. assumptions that we're making about each. other based on. gender norms and expectations based on. historical messages. how do we break away from them and it. might be that that's a conversation. between those two people.

and that's the best way of doing it but. also there's. you know all of these kind of so many of. these ideas about sex is so steeped in. history but we've never asked them we've. never had them challenged so. an assumption being you know a really. historical message that we hear all the. time means something i hear all the time. when i'm talking to people about like. myths you know what are the sexual myths. or what are the sexual rules that you. think are kind of applicable to your sex. life. a really common one is that men initiate. sex. like men are the initiators the sex and.

women are the responders now. how does that fit people then when. they're like oh but that's not how it. works for us. or you know a for example male partner. if we're talking about hetero. heterosexual relationships. who is less confident and a female. partner who is more confident. and so actually it's the other way. around but then they're thinking okay. but this isn't. what we think everyone else is doing so. maybe there's a problem here. when there isn't because that's what's.

working. for them and you see big distinctions. between the issues that. heterosexual and and homosexual. relationships. have i think that. what same-sex relationships don't battle. with as much. is the gender assumptions the gender. narratives the gender norms. that kind of idea of like men do this. and women do this. but you know there are also kind of. every relationship.

struggles in some way with that dynamic. of we're two individuals. how do we work on our differences and. our similarities together that. interrelational part which is what. happens between us. you know how what are our triggers. what how do we kind of what makes us. both anxious or what makes us both feel. secure or what makes us both feel closer. and also navigating that you know that. that's really. the battle that all couples have again. super naive question but i'm sure it's.

one of the most popular questions you. get asked which is like. is there a healthy amount of times for a. couple to have sex. per week or whatever i used fiverr. once a month before they became a. sponsor on this podcast. and since they've become a sponsor on. this podcast and i've delved into what. the site does and how all the services. work and the. vast array of things that you can. achieve on fiverr using freelancers. around the world. i swear on this dog's life pablo my dog. here who sat on my lap if you can't see. i swear in his life that i've used.

fiverr. at least once a week for the last three. months we've built so. many websites we've designed so many. decks we've had. video clips edited we've had subtitles. produced if you haven't checked out. fiverr before. hit the link in the bio fiverr.com ceo. go to the website check it out and every. single time. i do this podcast one person who dms me. with a service from fiverr that they. need doing for their business. for their podcast for whatever project.

they're working on i will pay. for that service to be done for you so. find a service on fiverr that you you. want done. send me a message and one person every. week will have that service paid for by. me. super naive question but i'm sure it's. one of the most popular questions you. get asked which is like. is there a healthy amount of times for a. couple to have sex. per week or whatever and you know one. would assume that changes over time. right because i think i know just. judging by my relationships it starts we. start like [ __ ].

energize the bunny rabbits and then you. know life happens. but is there you know and i hate these. questions because again they're so like. unnuanced and so like narrow but is. there an average amount of times that. couples. you would you know if you had to answer. this question and not swerve it. in this for the sake of nuance what. would the answer be i would like to know. what you. think the answer is i think. again context like i'm going to go into. nuances here but context matters like if.

you live. on opposite sides of the world then. obviously there's there's barriers but. if you're living in the same house if. you're cohabiting. living in the same house i think like at. least twice a week. you know once in the weekend tuesday. but where okay so where do you think um. that idea of twice a week would comes. from just. looking at my schedule. wait a minute where can i find time. probably like once in the week and then.

on the weekends i have a bit more time. so. um yeah but i mean it obviously changes. over time i feel like i probably have. sex every night but if i you know but. just energy levels and. yeah what's the answer then so someone i. um interviewed. talked about the amount of sex we have. as a red herring. so the kind of regularity of sex doesn't. determine like the satisfaction of it or. the kind of pleasure of it or the.

enjoyment of it and i think. what it feels like we've been trying to. do. is find an objective way of measuring. sex. so it's this idea of okay well we're all. trying to find the answer. to sex like how to be good at sex like. what that looks like how to. know where we pitch ourselves against. everyone else and. regularity is one of the only kind of. objective measures we have of that. so it's the one that we kind of will. lean into or we want to know the answer. to.

whereas what i would say is i don't. think we do have an idea. of i don't know what kind of modern like. surveys. say there's a big survey that's done um. kind of every few years but i haven't. actually seen the results of that one. yet. but what about the monkeys how often are. they doing i feel like they were like. what are the orangutans doing um i. haven't got a clue. to find out maybe your next guest yeah. like a zoologist or something. um but i think that the the thing is is.

working out again and what it what we're. looking for is a measure of like how. we're doing. yeah by knowing that um answer and i. think one of the things is. for some couples it might be as you said. they might kind of work in different. countries it might be every time they. see each other they have great sex. and that's enough like that works for. them. for other couples it might be we have. sex once a month and it's really good. you know we're both enjoying ourselves. and we feel like our needs are met. great for other people it might be once.

a week you know i think it's about. determining like. what your normal is or what your what is. right for you. but again the kind of worries and. anxieties and stresses come. from a we're not having enough sex. why is that yeah you know is it because. my partner's no longer. attracted to me that tends to be the. first thing people go to and what's. going on. um is it because our relationship isn't. working is it when we don't have a. clear kind of obvious answer like we've. just had a baby for example.

um so there's the assumptions that go. with that why has sex. changed what's going on but also the. well everyone else is having sex once a. week and we're having sex once a month. so that we must have a problem there. must be something wrong with us speaking. of my ex-girlfriends i feel like i've. slightly thrown. several of them under the bus but i had. another relationship. this go this goes back a little bit. further where. i just like fell in love with this girl. in every.

other aspect non-sexual so. intellectually in every other way. and then when it came time to have sex. which is actually quite. a little bit later than it usually is in. the relationships that i have. like three or four months into knowing. this person um. there was i don't know how to say this. because it just sounds. i'll just go for it um. the. the. i tend to think especially when it comes.

to like. vaginal penetration that it's like a. hand and a glove. and the hand in the glove didn't match. and. again i genuinely thought that i could. have spent the rest of my life with this. person but i saw that as. a like insurmountable object like my. penis didn't suit her. vagina and i thought we can't change. you can't change this um.

yeah is this something that people come. to you about. often they talk about like the. practicalities the practicalities. like the hand in the glove yeah i think. it is and you know there are for example. like. conditions that mean that people. can't have sex for numerous reasons so. like sexual dysfunctions. or you know particularly for women there. is a condition called vaginismus which. is where. there's an involuntary contracting of. the pc muscles the pelvic floor muscles. where.

they're unable to have sex and that we. think affects about one in 500 women in. no way am i saying that's. necessarily what was happening here but. you know we also know that. that it's about how we. work together as couples how we work. with bodies what would make. things more helpful how we can look for. kind of practical advice. but it's about understanding like okay. how do we help ourselves here rather. than again that assumption of like. something's going wrong because it made. me believe in this like idea of like.

there's a physical compatibility to sex. as well. not just like a a desire compatibility. or like you know an experimentation. compatibility but there's like a. physical. um compatibility as well to having like. good sex. where you can just like physically not. be. compatible but i suppose it's then where. how do you. if you want to like explore working. around a roadblock. you know how do you kind of.

because that's build yourself so hard to. talk about like i could never bring my i. could talk about. the um libido issue with my partner but. i could never tell. that partner that i wasn't that i was. basically turned off by our lack of. physical. compatibility i could never mention it. so i ended up the end the relationships. i tried multiple times to like fix it in. various ways. and i just couldn't bring myself to talk. about it because i didn't want to hurt. the person.

i didn't want to say something that. might hurt them and stay with them. forever. so i ended the relationship on the. grounds of something else but that was. fundamentally the issue i've actually. had two relationships in my life but. like sexual partners in my life that. ended purely because of that but yeah. and i think it's so hard again isn't it. because we just don't know. how to tackle these as topics as you say. like. how do we manage talking about something. or exploring something that we just.

have no idea where even to start and i. don't offend the person which that must. be it must be a huge thing in the work. that you do. like not wanting to offend your partner. because as you said it's such a. sensitive topic. and i don't know how i could have. approached that situation without. offending the person. and i think that it's the fear of. judgment like the fear of offending the. fear of hurting our partners the fear of. us not being able to go back. once we kind of it feels a bit like. pandora's box for some people like this. idea of. talking about sex in a relationship you. know like if i open this up like how do.

we. close it or i think a lot of people have. the fear of. if i open this up then every time we. have sex. we're both going to be thinking about. this and we're both going to be. completely in our heads and what we know. is when we're completely in our heads. when it comes to sex we're not. experiencing what's going on in our. bodies. and that is interrupting arousal you. know the body's process. of us kind of enjoying you know our body. kind of working with us the kind of. sexual arousal process. and so you know our thoughts are as.

distracting as they're kind of being. like someone in the room. that's not the person wearing sex with. or someone actually like walking in or. kind of saying all of that stuff to us. just because our thoughts are not a. physically represented being doesn't. mean they're not as distracting as. something else. and you're completely right because from. then on i didn't say anything. but i carried on trying i thought maybe. you know one bad experience whatever. we'll try again we'll try again. and it got to the point where i was i.

was. almost avoiding sex because i knew that. it was going to be an issue. and i started to overthink and as a guy. overthinking is not what you want to be. doing when you're trying to. maintain yourself so. i am so i started having issues keeping. my erection up because. i was just i was walking in i was. getting in the bed thinking oh my. god here we [ __ ] go again and i've. got a you know like are you gonna be. able to get it up because you you really. don't enjoy this and.

and that all of that just became too. much i couldn't tell her because i. didn't want to insult her. and i was starting to have problems like. you know being aroused because. it was a big issue and you're right it's. a snowball and performance anxiety is. one of the key things that i work with. with men because. where there is not a physical kind of. indicator. or reason for why they might be. struggling for example with erections. because. getting into your head too much.

again creates a speed bump for. sexual arousal because when you're. feeling stressed or you're feeling. anxious. you're in that kind of fight flight free. state your body is preparing not for you. to. kind of lie down and have sex and be. comfortable and relaxed but it's. preparing for. that kind of threat response and that. is not compatible with being sexual in. that moment so in a way. your body's kind of working against you. and so what you have to do then. is work on this kind of like frontal bit.

of your brain you know your thoughts. like focusing on that in order to in a. way like reprogram. because sex has become not fun. exciting pleasurable connecting it's. become anxiety provoking. stressful fearful you know don't want to. be here would rather avoid. so in a way the way i describe it a lot. is the meaning of sex has changed so the. way we relate to it has changed. how does one give their partner good. positive.

constructive feedback do you know what i. mean like. because i'm sure there's i was thinking. then i'm sure there's so many people. listening to this that are in. relationships. that would like their sex to be slightly. different. and they probably in the same way that i. was anxious about approaching it with my. xxxxx girlfriend. um what is the best way to approach. these sensitive self-esteem. attached topics with your partner not. in the moment when you're having sex so.

not just kind of like. in bed like just before because also. what you don't want to do is. you know kind of create like a scent a. further sense of like stress or anxiety. like in that sexual space. so what i always talk to people about is. like leading with a positive you know. like. i really love our relationship like i'm. loving what we're doing. but maybe there's something we can work. on here or how can we do this better. or so leading with a positive you know. affirmation because if someone comes at. you. and um you know we're often really.

sensitive to criticism also in our. intimate relationships. and this isn't good enough or you're not. doing this. or our immediate response is defensive. or attacking. we're not open to hearing what they have. to say we're already like shut down. before they've even got there. so kind of approaching it without that. positive. framework or like connecting framework. or open framework and also. let's work on this together this is a. shared venture something. we want to do together some you know.

something for us to think about like. how can we go about this because. what can also happen is we isolate the. problem in one. partner yeah when there are two of us. there. i guess i guess another sort of attach. to that would be. just telling them what you you like as. opposed to what you don't like. so it's just like the same outcome but. different framing so it's like oh i like. when you blindfold me or. i don't like when you don't blind you. know what i mean and just making it i. might some of my sort of sexual partners.

that have given me positive feedback. in the past have done so by telling me. what they like more of. because then we can lean into that yeah. exactly and we all like to be. told we're doing a good job we all like. to be affirmed we all like to be. especially in sex because we don't have. a reference point. you know are we doing a good job and we. feel you know if we. think we are bad at sex. with that's really personal yeah isn't. it it's brutal you know that's really.

a difficult thing to hold on to and then. we go into our next sexual situation. thinking i'm bad at this and actually. what it's more likely to do. is make us struggle and actually when. people are relaxed and comfortable. and calm in those situations they're. able to connect with the other person. more and we're kind of able to. i suppose follow the pleasure path a bit. more or. kind of affirm each other a bit more and. understand that actually someone says. can you touch me here it's not because. you weren't doing it.

the right way it's just because that. might be their preference but we cannot. be mind readers we cannot know. what our partners like until we. communicate that with them. that's such a fascinating thing as well. that we never know if we're good at sex. we're just like kind of trusting our and. especially because you see all these. movies and. we read these magazines about people. faking orgasms as a guy i swear to god. the first couple of times someone said. that i was like good in bed or whatever. i thought you're full of [ __ ]. i thought you say this to everybody and. then like i still.

i still and i've heard that a few times. whatever but i still. don't know and that's crazy that like. with everything else you have a. fairly um accurate gauge of whether. you're good at it. but because we've never seen like pretty. much we should really. we've never like seen anyone. um doing it in real life or really got. to observe it. outside of the fakeness of porn. and you don't know how it feels for the. other person. and sometimes you don't even know if. they're faking it or if it's real.

you can't i th well for me in my mind. like kind of float through life. assuming you're doing okay until told. otherwise. but it also assumes that here we go. again. good at sex is a formula that you can. apply across the board like everybody. it's every sexual experience. is going to be different between those. partners in that time. in that moment in that context it is not. like a universally applicable true. formula. now what we can do is we can.

sorry i just passed your purpose but my. ex said i was. like what we can do is we can feel more. informed so we can make no. i consider a big part of my job to be. helping people to make. informed choices about their sexual. wellness and well-being so that might be. you know thinking about the narratives. that have shaped how they think about. sex thinking about their current. definition of sex. thinking about sex education how can.

they feel informed about things like. anatomy. things like their body their preferences. their likes and the communication bit. how do i then. communicate that with a partner and all. of that can contribute to better. sexual self-confidence and again what we. know is like sexual self-confidence is. in that person again it's reflected back. to them in situations with other people. but really it's kind of all about that. relationship with self and i know that. sounds very. therapy and something that all. therapists say but it's really true.

because. we put ourselves in those sexual. contexts in those sexual situations. for some people they might never. struggle with sex they might have kind. of. muddled through you know like trial and. error worked it out kind of. and always and be okay and they're. satisfied and that's great but for some. people they do struggle for some people. they have a period of normal sexual. functioning and then they start to. struggle. and it might be that they've never. thought about sex really before. until they feel like they have to so.

again there's no. kind of one route to all of this. and although there are themes for. example in the conversations that i have. with people. everyone has their own journey their own. story their own experiences that have. shaped that. and some of it can start in you know the. playground like playground banter about. what sex is like but at a younger age. when we're quite impressionable and that. sounds. really scary what people are talking. about we can kind of carry that. with us and then it presents further.

down the line or we might have had. a negative sexual experience early which. means that we then don't. want to try again and so we hold on to. that negative experience because we've. had no. in a way like challenging or corrective. or other more positive experiences which. can go against those ideas. we're ever evolving you know humans and. people and. we're changing in every way you know. mentally physically. i think one of the things that has.

it's going to be honest because i think. that's just the point i think i think. when i'm honest i think i resonate with. more people. one of the things i'm slightly concerned. about is that at some point in my life. i'll fall in love with somebody. and the sex will be great and everything. and then. me all them will change in that we could. change in a variety of different ways. whether it's our desire but. but more so even like i'm. we might not be attracted to each other. anymore i might. you know deteriorate in some. form and i wonder how much of an issue.

that like. two people changing and falling out of. attraction with each other. is um prevalent in the work that you do. in the pit and the people that you know. come to you for therapy and. for advice i think it is it's not. probably the most prevalent thing i deal. with but also. what you're basing that on is an. assumption that that's not something. that can be worked at. it's not something that people accept. when they are. in a relationship with each other or. that they you know i think it goes back.

to that relationships moving in stages. and phases. bit as well and i think there's. that's that fear of like things not. always staying the same whereas actually. what i would say is if we accept that. things don't always stay the same then. we. can change and work with that and accept. it. and improve it or adapt you know as. humans we're really really adaptable. but we want to feel encouraged in that. rather than. i suppose kind of put off or challenged.

by the fact that we need to. in the world we live in now there's just. this incredible like. perspective perception of choice i'd say. like more so than. my grandparents around i imagine they're. dating their sort of circle of possible. matches extended to like the size of. their like street or village. didn't have tinder yeah exactly they. didn't have tinder or instagram but. now in my relationships if it's not. going well i've got apparently. a gazillion people right here that are. perfect. they're all filtered and i think you. know.

32 000 of them just like my photo so if. i lose attraction with my partner. in the world we live in now where we've. got this huge sort of perceived amount. of choice. and accessibility just one swipe you. know it must make. holding relationships together at times. when they hit. you know rocks more difficult than ever. before no. yeah i think that there are often ideas. that like the grass is always greener. but. equally we understand that relationships. take work.

and i think you know we we've seen a. breakdown of. norms we've seen that you know divorce. rates are at an all-time high but it's. not the same stigma that it used to be. that kind of people changing their. models of relationships so changing. relationships. is not kind of such a a big thing but. also. something i think is important to say is. just because a relationship. has ended doesn't mean that in itself it. wasn't. successful and i think that's another. thing that we need to. like to reframe you know people can be.

in a relationship for 10 years. and it ends that doesn't mean that. relationship failed or was a failure. it might have been for that person at. that time. this is part of the issue in my view. with marriage. because marriage you say till death do. us part but we all know that. if there's the only constant is change. we're all going to change. so how can you honestly make a. commitment that you're going to stay. with this person. why would you want to until death. knowing that you're both going to change.

in various ways that are yet to be. seen but can't you also change together. in a positive way. you can like i think i think people are. moving. they can move if you think about it as. like two parallel lines. they can go they could be slightly. tilted one degree. to the the right which means that in 10. years time they'll be too far apart. or they could be slight one degree to. the left which means that in 10 years. time they'll be closer together. um or they could be perfectly straight. right so perfectly parallel which means.

that in 10 years time they'll be the. same. they'll resonate in the same way they'll. be as close you know whatever but you. don't know that yet so i think that. that's why i've always been slightly. let down by the concept of marriage. because i think. you know you can't predict the future so. why would you want to make something. like that. so final um and i've i've i think like. you know the men in black have you seen. men in black oh god a long time ago when. they get the pen and they they hold it. up and if they press the button on the. pen basically it raises your memory. i sometimes think i think if if we held.

that pen up to the world and erased. everybody's memory what are the things. that would come back. like science would come back religion. would never come back the same. we wouldn't it wouldn't come back the. same right science we would figure all. the same things out. same experiments marriage i'm like no. wouldn't come back the same. not in 2021 i don't think that would. come back the same um i think we'd have. a much more bespoke. open flexible form of marriage that. would involve. less of the law and would involve less. of the church.

um and i probably think would be a. little bit more effective. so i guess my question is about marriage. what do you think about marriage. are you married. you know i think that it's what what. does it offer people you know like what. are people. looking for and i think for a lot of. people it's security you know and it's. it's form of insecurity though like i. think i tend to i'm going to play. devil's advocate here yeah i do. because i think if you're looking for. security from like a legal contract i'm.

like. then that for me speaks to a little bit. of insecurity somewhere else. but i think it's also about you know i. suppose marriage has been the norm. right historically it's always been the. norm it's always been. also considered the gold standard or. like what we should kind of. aspire to be or aim for and i think that. again you know that that impact of. history like us doing the things that. we've always done. but it's an institution and a lot of. people subscribe to that now. what we see now is that people can be.

married. multiple times and be happy in every. relationship or it be perfect for that. stage or for them or for that. relationship that people don't need to. get married that people can. parent and become parents without being. married that. it's i suppose the biggest. um representation of commitment that. historically we've always had and people. now. can find other ways to commit to each. other you know buying property together. that doesn't require it so i suppose.

children it's probably the biggest. commitment but it's also about. what those people are looking for. i think i think that's you know people. think i'm really against marriage it's. actually not the truth and. my friends say to me are steve's against. marriage i've listened to his podcast. i'm like no you didn't listen. what i'm against what i'm for is a more. bespoke. um tailored approach to how two people. come together i actually had a friend of. mine. say to me this week that he and he will. be listening to this podcast for sure. he said um he thinks he can only be with. someone for a year at a time.

he says after a year i just i don't. think i can. you know the relationship can't go on so. he's having these continual one-year. relationships. and look i guess the most important. macro question is like are you happy. yeah um and people's happiness is. derived in various ways. um i do think i do think marriage is. somewhat. you know i think maybe it's because i. tend to have a perspective that. convention. um conventional solutions um aren't. always. very well equipped to solve new problems. and the world we're living in is a very.

new one. we're living longer than ever before. we're exposed to different types of. information we have. much more freedoms than i think our some. of our ancestors used to have. so maybe the the way that humans commit. to each other should not involve the law. it shouldn't take two years to divorce. someone which i think is crazy. um i think it doesn't have to and i. suppose it's about. what people are looking for and i. suppose as you. you know you're asking earlier about. like multi-partner relationships or like. you know consensual non-monogamy it's.

about us making informed choices. about what works for us and our. relationships and i mean that's a. conversation i was having with someone. just yesterday. is how do we feel more informed. you know how do we explore what that. might look like in another way because. for some people trying to fit into what. they feel they're expected to do might. not work for them it's a it's a system. or a model that doesn't work. so how do we then start to like open up.

that conversation. for ourselves but also. we have our fears you know we're humans. we like to i suppose feel. that we fit the normal fit what's. expected or you know some of us do at. least. that what well other people think of me. if i step outside. that so as humans we have that balance. of like what do i want but also what. will other people think. yeah which i think is typically quite. awful.

yeah but it isn't it one of the biggest. things that drives people in a lot of. ways drives them. try somewhere though like i think i just. think in every facet of life it's like. your mom wants you to be a doctor but. you really want to be a ballet dancer in. costa rica. and it's like you know what's expected. of you you know you're expected to go. get married or and then become a doctor. but like your intrinsic joy will come. from going and being a ballet dancer in. costa rica. and uh not getting married or whatever. and smoking i don't know whatever. in the mountains over there but you know.

i tend to believe and this is probably. there's no like i don't have a huge. scientific basis for this i have a. couple of like philosophical studies. i've read but. that um people who abandon like their. true selves or. that conform to society's expectations. typically. have some point in their life some kind. of um. moment of realization where they realize. that they've not. not fulfilled themselves as they could. have. isn't this back to that point of. expectation versus reality though. yeah i guess so like the gap between.

what we expect and then where we kind of. find ourselves to be or what we. what that looks like because i think. again that's that. and also you know i'm it's that idea. again i feel like i talk about gaps a. lot but that idea that gap between. the person i kind of know myself to be. in the person i show everybody else that. i am. and the bigger that gap the more space. for struggles or battles or mental. health challenges around that.

what is and this might just be the title. of this video because i. because i think it will be so we'll uh. we'll clickbait this part. what is the single biggest killer of. relationships in the modern age in 2021. in your view if you had to say this one. thing. is the single the biggest killer of. relationships what would it be. unrealistic expectations one of the. big problems you you talked about it.

earlier this idea of like what we see in. the movie so we're like oh that's what. it's like. so then when it's not like that we're. disappointed. our partner fails us they haven't met. our expectations they haven't met all of. our needs you know we talk about. this idea lots of relationship experts. talk about this idea of how we shouldn't. expect. one person our partner to meet every. single one of our needs. but we do and so they're kind of doomed. to fail. then in that way so how do we.

change that how do we start to kind of. like open. that up how do we you know we have other. relationships in our lives we have. family we have friends we have. colleagues you know we. need to start to think about like how we. can do that for ourselves. and then our we work with our partners. to create something together i. completely resonate with that and. i think most of my relationships fail. because the expectation that my partner. has on me. it goes unmet because i'm very selfish.

and i like to work all the time and to. think about my stuff. all the time and i'm like very. self-absorbed and when i have free time. i just want to like i don't know. do something for me um i've tried over. the years to like. manage that expectation by making it. clear as early as i possibly can. that like work is a huge part of my life. and i am very selfish. selfish sounds like such a negative word. but it means that like i'm so consumed. with my passions and the things. yeah like you could say focused i use. selfish because it makes it. because i'm trying to take a little bit. of blame i guess but i am so consumed.

with my passions like i will. work all day and then i'll go on youtube. and want to watch something about spacex. and elon musk taking spaceships to mars. and then. in the morning you know i just want to. do and i kind of want them to do their. own thing as well. so i try and very early on lay that. expectation down. but it just never seems to work because. at the start someone will tell you that. they. oh they're cool with that they're never. cool with that. ever i suppose it's about that you know. relationships are about that balance of. independence and dependence. and so it's where that balance.

sits i want independence. i want them to be independent me to be. independent and will like. meet in the middle sometimes but yeah i. i don't know maybe i i maybe i'm the. problem. because i think that compromise is. important i don't think i compromise. very often as much as i should um. i went through my life i think. pretending that. i was just so focused on my work and no.

one could deal with it but i probably. think that i'm also like. i think selfish is probably the word and. unwilling to compromise and like. i think so like the negative version of. selfish is also the word where like. i prioritize my my needs more than. someone else's. i think that's caused me a lot of. problems i i sit with people in this. podcast all the time that's super. successful and they. they'll they largely struggle in. relationships. do you think that's because their. primary relationship then is with their. work. yeah and themselves because it meets you. know. we see that right we need people talk.

about their businesses as their babies. you know like that's my first baby or. that's my baby and i think that. you know are we for some people we get. our needs. met through our. businesses through our passions through. our. sport through our careers and. for some people they might get enough of. their needs for relationships met. in those kind of smaller doses or not in. those kind of like single. intimate or couple or relational.

relationships. but they have that met in other ways. across the board or in kind of. smaller ways now who are we to. pathologize that i suppose. difficult i was hoping you'd have all. the answers i'm sorry i definitely don't. have all the answers i can but. compromise is important right yeah. but in any relationship you you. compromise with people you work with. you compromise with friends you. compromise with family members like we. all. we all have to compromise because. relationships are however many people.

there are but you know. if we're talking about couples two. people who are independent different. people trying to work together. and they're not going to perfectly fit. together or be aligned in every single. way so how do we navigate that. when you're running your own business. though and you're the ceo. you don't have to compromise as much do. you know what i mean things tend to go. on your schedule. when you know you get to kind of lay. down so in your and then transitioning. into your personal life. you have to almost perform the opposite.

behavior which is like high patience. listening when you're the ceo you can. you know condense things how you want. and. you're leaning into your natural way of. working and things are kind of going at. your cadence. within your how you want things to. happen whereas in your personal life. that that's maybe where i've struggled. whereas like i've learned one behavior. in my professional life which is about. saving time on everything and optimizing. everything to be more productive. and performance-based yeah and i'm like. i don't want any sentence to be longer. than like it. needs to be um so then transitioning.

into my private life where. things you know you can shall we go for. a walk a [ __ ] wall. like i'm like what are you doing what a. waste of time what. what for like do you know what i mean. and i think i've struggled with that. transition because. the decision making framework i have. whether that i use at work. it can't be the same it's applicable oh. my god it's the worst. and sometimes maybe it seeps over into. my personal life so they're different. it's almost like different operating.

systems exactly exactly. two different objectives do you think. that so if i like. kind of push that back on to that kind. of question of like how. relationships work back on to you then. do you think that. entrepreneurs or people who then kind of. go out on their own. and do that are more prone to that. different way of. relating or more that's their more. natural style. as in do i think they're more likely to.

say so just to make sure in terms of you. were saying like you know as a ceo. you're like the person in charge you set. the agenda you set the time like it's. more. you're kind of leading that that in a. way that might be. a piece of being an entrepreneur is. someone who. kind of puts their head down and does. that yeah but and it's also like heavily. learnt. it's like you learn imagine if you put i. don't know they say like you know how. diamonds are made that it's like the. pressure over a million years or. whatever.

um you get pressured over 10 years and. you learn. a philosophy for your use of time for. how you want things to happen whatever. um and that becomes part of your. character even if it wasn't when you. were you know 10 years before. when going through that experience it. makes it part of your character where. you're like. quite impatient things you know. typically operate. in the way you want them to so you learn. that personal philosophy. because that's what made you successful. and also that's what's required to. succeed yeah. yeah and i i genuinely.

think that it's for me anyway i mean of. course i've got these crazy hindsight. biases but. that's what was required for me to get. to where i needed to get to. but if i want to be successful in my. relationships then it's like all these. other things which is like compromise. and patience and doing things. for the sake of doing them as opposed to. where they're gonna get you. yeah with some kind of outcome that's. what i've struggled with anyway. um but anyway enough about me you know a. lot of stuff. right questionable yeah you've learned a.

lot of stuff so how easy did you find it. to implement all of this. stuff that you know into your own life. and in your own relationships i always. whenever i have like an expert in a. specific topic on. i'm always fascinated by their own. ability to apply their knowledge in. their own lives. um i mean i think you know speaking for. myself. in this space like i think we can i can. be a hypocrite i think we can all be. hypocrites in our own ways and you know. that's because. we're also all human you know we all. still have our. our triggers our anxieties our defenses.

and. i try my best and i think that you know. that's the best you can do. but i think that relationships there's. an acknowledgement that relationships. take work and take nurture and i think. actually when you try to talk about this. stuff all the time you actually. sometimes need to kind of step back and. be like okay so. what am i doing here you know like at. home how do i. implement this as a partner as a parent. as a family member as. a friend and it's kind of acknowledging. that i'm being thoughtful of it and i. think. that there's also that idea of like how.

am i. best working with or serving people. close to me rather than kind of like. everything else something else to do for. me it's. about pulling away i suppose from being. a yes man you know there was a stage in. my kind of life career and i said yes to. absolutely everything and now you have. to be. a bit more selective because otherwise. then you lose the. quality time and i think that quality. time is an important. part and it's actually making sure that. it's carved out protected. um so i think for me that's a big part. of it but yeah i think.

not you know what what is the perfect. relationship you know. we're all working at everything all the. time and i don't pretend. because i'm someone that works with. relationships and sex i've not to be. working on it myself. i bet all of your friends come to you. so last night you like did you get that. a lot i think. a bit but you know i think i feel. incredibly um. fortunate that i have a very. you know emotionally open emotionally. intelligent group of friends you know.

like i surround myself with the people. where we have those. open conversations we are able to go to. like the difficult places it is very. mutually supportive and none of us. pretend to have it all worked out or. that it's all perfect you know i think. there's kind of a. almost like a celebration of like the. perfectly imperfectness. yeah of it all and also putting our. hands up like wow this week is. tough or i'm really struggling with this. or you know this is going on and i think. that. there's something in knowing you can. pick up the phone and just.

say that that is hugely hugely important. do you ever instruct or advise any of. your. patients to this is a [ __ ] rogue. question but i. just came to my mind to go and get. some kind of like training. sexual training is that a thing i've. seen it in like a documentary i think. it's quite. like a place in amsterdam you can go and. i'll teach you how to you know.

give someone a hand job or something i. don't know no i think you know i think. the where we're at now you know in the. world is that there are online platforms. kind of creating i suppose like more. instructional. content so there's an amazing one that. was launched by. the kinsey institute which is one of the. leading kind of sexuality research. institutes in the world and it's a. platform called omgs and it's basically. about. helping like instructional videos and. interviews about like. how to um create female orgasm or.

stimulate female pleasure. what's the website again. but i think that you know we are now you. know with sexual wellness and well-being. becoming such a big important. topic we're seeing that these platforms. are coming up which are. to help instruct or to help offer advice. and that means that the educational. content is available to people and i. recommend lots of that stuff. because if people feel informed they. feel more confident and that means that. they can have actionable things.

to work on to build on and that. they're more able to be like okay yeah i. can i understand how this works. now whether this is our bodies or. someone else's bodies to a certain. extent so that can kind of. help set me up for a. sexual experience. and lastly just to sort of loop around. from the from the start what are the. if you were to say that they were there. were similarities in couples that do. enjoy. great sexual relationship just.

principles top-line principles what are. those sort of. key distilled top-line principles um. such a big question communication. communication yeah. is like top of the tree and i think i. think it's top of the tree and i think. it's the one that people don't want to. hear. because it's less actionable and it's. quite. scary yeah exactly it's like. in a way i think talking about it is the. hardest thing to do and. but it is you know any relationship kind. of expert any expert in the sexual kind. of.

well-being how space will say to you. like communication. is that and then it's like okay but. how do i do that and. you know we talk about these. communication exercises things like kind. of speaking from your own position so. like. i say so there's a place called the. gottman institute and they have. you know done so much research on. couples but it's this. ownership like my feelings are i'm. feeling. my perspective is because actually what. you're not saying to your partner is you.

yeah it's not blame it's not blame. exactly so i think that. the communication part on like positive. communication. is a big part of that but it's that. breakaway from assumption. it's like clarification or assumption. assumption is what trips us up so much. of the time. because we're mind reading we think we. know what our partner's going to say. before they say it so we don't even give. them a chance. yeah that's true well listen thank you. so much for your time i feel like um. it's been a very enlightening. conversation and i appreciate that the. fact that you've taken the burden of all.

of my sexual. every sexually show i've ever had it's. good to get it out of that i feel like. this was therapy for me more than. anything else but um. where can people find you and i know. you're involved in a bunch of other. projects i know that you've got a sex. toy project which you're. involved in as well so where can people. find you and reach you. yeah so my website is my name kate. moyle.com at uk i host a podcast called. the sexual wellness sessions where. we have um informative but informal. conversations about. different areas of sexual well-being so. whether that's desire.

sexual functioning kind of sexual. mindset. um infertility and sex you know try and. i try and cover kind of. um specific subjects around like what. people might be struggling with. um and then i'm on instagram at kate. moyal therapy but um this expo project. is on the uk sex expert for lilo. so um luxury sex play brand and they do. some amazing amazing products as well so. and i work with um brands kind of. creating like. sexual kind of wellness focused i.

suppose. projects or huge products yeah and i. think. brands are really trying to get it right. and i really really respect that i think. that's amazing so i actually love that. work because it feels like it's. taking the learning from inside the. therapy room and putting it out into the. world and hopefully then that's creating. that. social cultural kind of sex positive. shift that i think we all need. well thank you so much for coming on. today it's a real pleasure to speak to. you and i was so i've been so excited. about this conversation for a long time. probably because i've been able to. unload on my own personal issues but.

because you're someone that really. um has a powerful insight on a part of. our lives that as you say is taboo. and often not talked about enough and. that's why i thought that was good to. to have this is one of the pages in this. podcast diary so thank you so much. and um i'm sure we'll uh we'll i'll be. in touch. with all my other issues every year i'll. be in touch. just just wanted to say thank you thanks. this is huge news i finally got to meet. my debut book happy sexy millionaire it.

arrived from my publisher. last week and it was so surreal. seeing this book after about almost. three years. from the point where we had the idea and. i started speaking to publishers about. it. to the point where it's in my hands has. been almost three. years and i traveled the world to. produce this book i stayed in two. different jungles on two different. opposite sides of the world for 60 days. in total. completely alone completely in isolation.

to write this book. i've poured so much time effort research. studying into it i've met mental health. specialists i've met some of the most. successful people in the world i've met. clinical psychologists. professors people that are experts on. divorce. everything and i've poured all into this. book mixed in with my own life. experiences. it's without a shadow of a doubt the. single most important thing i've ever. produced. and it's crazy because you have to sell. a book that's what like fuels the. industry right that's what gives you a. publisher that's what gets. into shops that's what gives you.

distribution but if i could if i could. click my finger. and everybody got it for free and it. meant that i made zero i would click my. finger in a heartbeat because i think. it's that important and i just want. people to read it i don't care about the. money side of it it's everything i've. ever learned. all of my most important lessons. distilled into this small book. and i teamed up with one of the world's. leading artists in sort of. visualizations and he produced about 25. images for the book as well. so i know that some people learn through. words some people learn through images. the book is a combination of the two.

happy sexy millionaire you can pre-order. it everywhere now. and if you do get that pre-order please. do dm me because i'd love to thank you. myself. [Music].

you.