Vitamin D Expert: The Supplement World Is Giving The WRONG Advice!

The vitamin world is giving the wrong. advice. For instance, if you do not know. what you're doing with them, they're. just as dangerous as any drug you could. put in your mouth. The next thing is. supplementing with vitamin D is not the. same as being outdoors [music]. because we absorb it through our skin. But what we've been told is don't ever. let the sun touch your skin. And another. example is when we're deficient in this. vitamin, our brain actually forgets how. to sleep. And I know that because I'm a. neurologist and I wanted to tell the. world about what my patients and I had.

discovered together about making sleep. better. And billions around the world. have a sleep problem, but no one's. treating it. And the usual sleep. treatment is behavioral. Like blackout. curtains, go to bed at the same time. But that is not something that's helped. the people who wind up with me. They've. tried all that already. And I've taken. care of 28-year-olds who just had a. stroke. >> 28, sorry? >> 28-year-olds. We associate stroke with. being old and having diabetes and. hypertension and heart disease. No. So. then I did a whole bunch of sleep. studies because we found some of the.

exciting things by [music] accident that. turn out to have to do with vitamin. deficiencies and deficiencies that have. developed from being indoors too much. [music] And we're starting to feel the. effects of that. You're like, "Obesity.". But there are no obese squirrels in my. backyard. The only obese animals are. cats and dogs [music] that we keep. inside. And then we found out most of. the sleep disorders are really linked to. the gut and microbiome. And we could go. into that, but one of the interesting. thing I learned was vitamin D is a. hormone. There was a mistake made in. calling it a vitamin.

>> Well, I'm very curious to learn about. all of this. And also, you've come up. with this protocol called the right. sleep protocol. Can you walk me through. it? >> Absolutely. Here's the first part of it. So, >> This is super interesting to me. My team. gave me this report to show me how many. of you that watch this show subscribe. And some of you have told us, according. to this, that you are unsubscribed from. the channel randomly. So, a favor to ask. all of you, please could you check right. now if you've hit the subscribe button. If you are a regular viewer of the show. and you like what we do here, we're. approaching quite a significant landmark. on this show in terms of the subscriber.

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Really appreciate it. Let's get on with. the show. Dr. Stasha Gominak. For the people that have just clicked on. this conversation because they like the. title, they're interested in the subject. matter, what did what did they going to get from. sitting with us and listening to us? How. is their life going to improve? >> A completely unique and new way to look. at why they are not sleeping well, or. why they have medical problems. I hope. they will come away with the impression.

that. I want to find out if my brain chemistry. is normal or not normal for sleep. >> And you were a clinical assistant. professor of neurology at Stanford. University Hospital, and also you did a. neurology residency at Harvard Medical. School. >> Yes. I grew up in California. I became a. biochemist, and then I wound up being. interested in medicine because. biochemistry is being applied to humans. in medicine. So, I became a physician, and then I went into neurology, and I'm. a neurologist, and then by accident,

somebody insisted. that they wanted a sleep study, and this. was in 2004. Now, >> So, you became you were a neurologist, you became a doctor, and then you fell. in love with sleep. >> Yes. >> How many patients. have you worked with on the subject. matter of sleep? What's the wide range. of. symptoms that they were experiencing and. problems that had just to get a sort of. context on the variety and broadness of. your experience. >> Probably 2,000. Since leaving neurology.

practice, I started a online business. where I became a sleep coach. I'm estimating that I have affected. another 5 to 6,000 people. And that's. because I have a workbook that we're. going to talk about. I have set out a. series of steps that you should do. And. that those steps are based on brain. chemistry. >> Mhm. >> Not on you do it wrong, which is what is. all over the internet. You are just. doing it wrong. The usual sleep. treatment is behavioral.

Blackout curtains, white noise, go to bed at the same time, recognize your bedroom as a quiet place. for sleep, etc. That is not. something that's helped the people who. wind up with me. They've tried all that. They've tried everything. So, what are. the range of symptoms? The first experience was with women who. had headache. One of my patients said, "These drugs. you're giving me haven't worked. I want.

a sleep study.". She had sleep apnea. She was young and. thin. She did not look like a fat older. male with a fat tongue, which is what we. were being sold at that time. The people. with sleep apnea have a fat tongue. It. gets in the airway and they need to wear. one of these things over their face at. night that blows air up their nose. She put on the CPAP device. She came. back 2 months later. Her headaches were. gone. She'd had a daily headache for.

like 5 years. >> It worked. >> Yes. And I was like, "Well, no. There's no way.". Because headaches are really a brain. stem function problem. I have this whole. construct in my mind and it's a. biochemical problem. So, I think maybe it's allowing her to. stay in deep sleep longer. and she's making the chemicals that I'm. focusing on that allow her head pain. switch to go into the off position,

which is where it's supposed to be. It's. supposed to be off until somebody hits. you in the head and then it turns on. Hers is just turning on spontaneously. all the time. So, then I did a whole bunch of sleep. studies in young healthy females who had. daily headaches. They would frequently. say something like, I wake up at 3:00. a.m. and I can't go back to sleep. I wake up at 3:00 a.m. and my sleep is. lighter after that. I wake up at 3:00. a.m. with a headache. And then I have, let's say as an example, a little. Mexican lady who comes in from northern.

Mexico. She's now living in Texas with. her kids. She had never had headaches. until she moved up and she's living with. one of her grown kids and she's coming. to see me for headaches. We happen to. have a beach house in Mexico for a. period of about 14 years. So, I would go. down there and I would think, what's. going to happen to these people that. have sleep apnea who don't have any. electricity and they're living in. palapas that are made of sticks with a. thatched roof. They're still doing the. same thing that they were doing 2,000, 4,000 years ago and you can't tell if.

the little viejitos, the little old. people are 60 years old or 80, they. might be 90. They're not fat. They're not tired. Their. great-grandfathers. I begin to realize this is about living. outside. Humans were meant to live. outdoors like every other animal. We. have decided that we are special, but. we're not special. We're Our. biochemistry is like every other animal. Okay, so these two These inputs are. coming all at the same time and I'm. puzzling over.

these sleep studies. That first gal had. sleep apnea. But most of the women that I sent for. those studies, they did not have sleep. apnea or it come back on the the page it. would say no significant apnea. There. was a significant score, how many times. you stop breathing during the night. And. then the next part is. what do they have that's wrong with. them? That came about a year and a half. later when the pulmonologist says, "I. don't know if you've noticed this, but. your population has a really unusual.

finding. Most of them have. delayed rapid eye movement sleep, no rapid eye movement sleep, or they. have rapid eye movement sleep apnea, meaning they only stop breathing in. rapid eye movement sleep. >> What's rapid eye movement sleep? >> So this is called a hypnogram. And on this bottom axis is time. On this axis is a representation of what. phase of sleep you are in. And it turns out that when we enter.

sleep, we go through what we call two. lighter stages of sleep. The first phase. that we enter is here, it's wake. Couple times this person woke. May not even be aware that they woke up, went back to sleep. But we enter sleep. in light sleep sleep one and light sleep. two. These are called that because when. the sleep experts started studying this. in 1970, that's relatively recently, you could easily awaken someone out of.

these phases, okay? And it has a certain. brain wave pattern generates. And then they go into a phase that's. called deep sleep or slow wave sleep. Everyone who has a sleep tracker device, which is very common these days, is now. becoming familiar with I have this much. deep sleep, I have this much rapid eye. movement sleep. Deep sleep is really in. the sleep industry called slow wave. sleep because the brain waves are these. slow.

big pattern. We always go. through a couple of light sleep phases, and then we go into rapid eye movement. sleep, and then we go through light. sleep phases, and then we go to deep. sleep. Now, the pivotal question that I. asked the pulmonologist, "Why would my patient have. stopped breathing?" That's what apnea. means. "Why would they stop breathing. only in REM sleep?". I thought this was an anatomic problem.

And he said, "Well, we get the most. paralyzed of all in REM sleep.". And I went, "Paralyzed? Holy crap! You mean I'm I'm paralyzed while I'm in. bed? What if I stop breathing? What if my. brain doesn't ever. not like un-paralyze me? That's. terrifying. And it turns out every animal, including. fruit flies, who we're doing sleep. studies on, get paralyzed in sleep.

We get the most paralyzed in rapid eye. movement sleep when this part. needs to get repaired, it gets paralyzed, too. That means you. have to have an anatomy that stays where. the tube that you're trying to breathe. through stays open. while you are unconscious. and trying to repair everything in this. area. And I want to pull out the brain to let. you know where this is happening and why. it's so important. This part that's.

white is called the brain stem. This part is actually fully in control. when you are asleep. There's a little switch up here that. goes boop. "Steven, you're not conscious anymore.". The brain is still extremely active. In fact, the waveforms. that they record from up here look the. same in rapid eye movement sleep as they. do in wake, suggesting that all sorts of things are. happening, like you wake up abruptly cuz.

some a noise happens, and you're in the middle of a dream. You're traveling. You're flying. You've. You've got huge colors going on. Your brain is extremely active during. this time, but you're not aware of it. And this. part right here, it is running your heart rate, your. blood pressure, it has paralyzed you. This is where the autonomic nervous. system comes in. The sympathetic nervous. system and the parasympathetic nervous. system are centered right here. They are.

meant to be the automatic driver of all. the processes that you use during the. day, and they run sleep. This process. that we're talking about here is fully. run by the brain stem. >> So, the sort of sleep wake cycles. >> Exactly. The sympathetic is called fight. flight. The other one, the. parasympathetic is called rest and. digest.

It also is experienced as a state of. calm. Okay? It is also. what happens when we have an orgasm. There are things that are happening in. the brain stem that feed back to why do. they fall asleep? Why do the guys fall. asleep on top of her? Probably because it actually might. increase the likelihood of. fertilization. Maybe it has a survival. risk. These are all unconscious things that we. don't We aren't trained to connect.

together, but once you get into the. parasympathetic nervous system, it turns out that the parasympathetic. and the sympathetic are also very. involved in what's happening here. And. the basic idea is the first half of the. night, and you'll see that we've also. broken it into 1 2 3 4 5 cycles, usually. of about an hour and a half. The first. half of the night till about 3:00 a.m. is mostly run by the sympathetic side. >> Which is the fight or flight side. >> Yes. So, when you're well balanced and. you have a completely normally operating.

brain stem, you will have a couple of. branches of REM sleep. But my patients. did not have any REM sleep at all in the. first half of the night, and in fact, they might have been lucky to have a. little have a little half an hour here. between 4:30 and 5:00, if at all. The second half of the night, from 3:00. a.m. to 7:00 a.m., is run by the. parasympathetic side. That means, if you look at it in a. certain way, you could say, "Well, wait, maybe they've lost the.

parasympathetic driver. for the second half of their night.". Seeing all these sleep studies that did. not have this phase of sleep, they're. actually 1/6 of the amount of REM sleep. they should have. And as I go back. through all the sleep studies, I. realize, "Well, wait, don't we kind of do mood in. REM sleep?". >> What do you mean, do we we do need? >> When trying to link the comments that my. patients have made and the drugs that I. give them,

I realize I've been giving out. antidepressants to this group of young, healthy women with headaches, because. they frequently say, "I'm in a terrible. mood.". So, they can't remember. Isn't there a. body of literature about memory being. made permanent during REM? Yes, memory. is linked and mood is linked. If I'm. allowed to go back to sleep, if I have. the proper brain chemistry to allow me. to fall back into REM sleep, I will wake. in a better mood. Those are the sorts of.

things that the patients will tell you. if you ask about it, and if they're able. to fall back to sleep. Because my group did not have sleep. apnea and could not wear CPAP masks, what's wrong with them? Why aren't they. in this phase of sleep? This is a. neurology problem. This is not a. pulmonologist, this is not about. breathing. This is about this brain stem. and what is the chemistry of this? So, then I go to the anatomy and then I find. out what are the cells in this brain.

stem area. that make us paralyzed. >> Just to make sure I'm with you. You're. You're asking that question because you. figured out that. the women who are struggling with. sleeping and getting headaches. have less of this REM sleep, which is. associated with being paralyzed. So, the. question you then asked is. what are the chemicals that help us. become paralyzed? >> Yes. And what are [clears throat] the. cells that. take us into these? What What is the. chemistry of that since I'm so focused. on biochemistry? There's actually a.

deficiency in a neurotransmitter that. our moving doors means that we've lost a. neurotransmitter that we must have to be. normal humans. And the reason why they. don't know it is because there are no. drugs that duplicate acetylcholine. There are no drugs. But ultimately, what we found out. together was that vitamin D makes the. enzyme. or the protein that makes a certain. reaction happen that makes. acetylcholine. Acetylcholine is the neurotransmitter,

the chemical. that the autonomic parasympathetic side. uses. We hear all the time about. epinephrine and norepinephrine or. adrenaline and noradrenaline. That's. what happens when somebody rear-ends. you, your blood pressure goes up, your. heart rate goes up. That's all dominant. here. If you're wearing a sleep tracker, you'll you'll see that there's a measure. of what's called heart rate variability. that goes up as the parasympathetic. becomes dominant. >> As the rest the rest and digest. >> Exactly. So, all of the messages that we.

have to increase the heart rate or. decrease the heart rate or to have a. bowel movement or be constipated or to. digest our food, those are all. eventually run by a chemical. And our body and our brain use these. chemicals to send messages. This is. actually a chemical deficiency state. that happens when you move indoors. Sunscreen, computers, and air conditioning all. started in the 1980s. And the reason why.

it's not as evident to you as it is to. me. is that I was alive before the 1980s. There were two kids in my class of 300. that were overweight. They didn't go on diets. They didn't. have any trouble sleeping. They weren't. on antidepressants. The things that. weren't common when I was a teenager. that are common now are striking for. those of us who are this age because we. know it wasn't like that.

What we've been told is it's toxins in. the food. It's that we aren't doing it. right. I don't think those are things. when you say I'm not doing it right, then you should be able to tell me how. to do it right. And that's what a lot of. these podcasts are about. How do I. change what I do so I can feel rested. and be at the peak performance of my. life. That interests a lot of people. I would claim that there's a deficiency. state in the background that you can. actually fix. And you can fix it, but it's through. vitamins.

And the our ideas about vitamins are. wrong, completely wrong. We've been. taught that vitamins are not important. or vitamins are very important, but. they're easy to use. They'll never hurt. us. Uh you just take a certain like. who's your recommendation? What's the. vitamin D recommendation dose that this. guy's giving out? We've been told things that are actually. not true, and medicine hasn't taken. responsibility for the fact that this is.

the the core of biochemistry. It was done by physicians. These. original research articles in the '40s. and '50s that the word vitamin was used. was done by medical experts. It's unfortunately been given to the. government to give recommendations. It. should never be in the hands of the. government. The government doesn't know. anything about our biochemistry. So, the supplement industry at the. moment is a mess, and I say that only. because.

I have seen dramatic things happen to my. patients that. are not what I expected, and vitamins. are a form of biohacking. They're just. as dangerous as any drug you can put in. your mouth. If you do not know what you're doing. with them, bad things will happen to. you, and unfortunately, frequently those. bad things are the same thing you had. before you took the vitamin. Therefore, you should pay attention to. what you're feeling. So, the pathway that I've built that's. on my website now has a a second half.

that's a journal. You have to keep notes. of what's happening to you. >> How many people are. are experiencing sleep problems in your. point of view? >> Billions. It's around the world. There. are sleep study centers in every country. that has electricity. In Germany, in Japan, in Brazil, and. they're all publishing how abnormal the. studies are. This is not what it looks. like.

They rarely. send out an article saying that we have. less REM because. they don't have an answer for why. I. just happen to be the only one currently. on the internet. that has a different way of looking at. it. >> Well, I'm very curious to learn about. all of this. I've never heard someone. say to me before that vitamins are. linked to sleep issues. >> Absolutely. >> Um it's typically, you know, put on the. sleep mask and close the blinds and make.

sure it's cold in the room. So, this is. incredibly interesting to me. >> Let me add one more thing so I don't. forget. You and Matt Walker talked about. chronotypes. >> Yeah. There are many dogmatic statements. that are being made about genetics and. sleep that are not necessarily wrong, but they're also not necessarily right. And I had the same training that you. that you get from Matt Walker. He's. doing animal training. We say dogmatic. things based on certain studies that we. do. And then my patients.

don't behave that way. My patients turn out to. you know, this person has been working. to take this to an extreme. So, the. chronotype story is you're either an. early bird or a night owl. And you had shared that you're a night. owl. and your girlfriend. is an early bird, okay? And. what is being taught is that that is. your genetic makeup. Although there are genetic mutations. that lead to certain timing of sleep, it.

turns out everybody I was doing this. vitamin stuff with would revert back to. fall asleep at 10:00 and wake up at. 6:00. Even the people who were working. nights their whole life. This woman that I'm seeing who has on. disability now because she got a. terrible disease. that I believe is because she worked. nights. When she is at home on. disability for several years and I'm. still caring for her for that disease, she's still sleeping during the day.

Well, why would she sleep during the. day? And now I have a whole run of. patients who say, "I guess it's because. I always work nights.". It turns out that humans really can't. work nights if they have normal brain. chemistry. Why? Because we're day. hunters. We are supposed to be asleep in the. night, and that is our biochemistry. There are lots of animals that are. designed to be awake at night. Owls. That's why they use that as a symbol. And if you do the right thing with their. chemistry, and if you insist they spend.

more time outside, then they actually revert to falling. asleep at 10:00 p.m. and waking up at. 6:00 a.m. It's very difficult to operate. unless you're international like you are. to be falling asleep. There are people. who fall asleep at 4:00 a.m. and wake up. at noon. That is a very difficult. problem to operate within the normal. population cuz the rest of the world. doesn't operate that way. And when you. think about it a little bit, we actually.

have certain standards of when we start. work and when we end work. And that's. the same all over the globe. So, there. were things that happened to me that. surprised me. and they became consistent, okay? And. those are some of the things that we're. going to talk about and that's what made. me think, you know, this is around the. world and it happened at a specific. time. There are many diseases that. started to be reported in the middle. '80s. You guys aren't aware of it because you. think it's normal now, but ADD, ADHD,

depression, things that are affecting. child- childhood development, which we. could discuss at a different time. Fatty liver. Certain things like, oh, increase in. diabetes. The things that were diseases. that had been described, they're all. Some of them are old diseases that have. increased in incidence, but some of them. for the first time, fatty liver was. first described, non-alcoholic fatty. liver, first described in the '80s.

ADHD similar. So, during the time that I don't know. why we have this epidemic, I'm still. thinking toxins because that's what. we've been told, pesticides, glyphosate. And then, we get into the area of vitamin D. And. how did I find out about vitamin D? Why. was I sort of forced against my will. to step into the vitamin D politics, which is a horrible morass? >> There should be a button just down below.

here. And if it says subscribe, you're. already subscribed. If it says subscribe. bar, that means you're not yet. And if. you're not subscribed, please could you. do us a favor and hit that button. It. helps the show more than you know. And. according to the algorithm, you're. someone that watches our show, but you. haven't yet hit that button. Thank you. so much. So, explain to me, your your assertion. is that vitamin D is fundamentally. linked to a lot of the sleep disorders. and deficiencies that we see. How How. can you prove that to me? >> I think I would prefer to give you these. two examples. >> Okay. >> Because the people who are listening,

these are the two extremes, but it'll. cover a lot of the people that are. listening. >> Okay. >> The first is, let let's call her. Madeline. >> Madeline. >> She's. 32 years old. She's a redhead. That turns out to be. important. She's 100 lb overweight. She just had. her first pregnancy 3 years ago, and she. had been told that because she had. endometriosis and polycystic ovarian. syndrome, that she would never get. pregnant. But she got pregnant. She's. very happy about that. She had.

uh gestational diabetes, which means she. had diabetes during the time that she. was pregnant with her son. And now she is pretty much a wreck. She. has daily headache, which is why she's. seeing me. She's on about nine drugs. She has several kinds of pain. She has a. terrible pain down the front of her leg. that she's been told is endometriosis. growing on one of her nerves. She has. terrible burning in her feet. She has terrible reflux. She poops once.

a week. She feels like she has to get up and go. to the bathroom several times a night. She thinks that's why her sleep is so. interrupted. So, I'm treating her for her daily. headaches and her pain. And then, I. start to think about sleep. And because. we've been trained that fat people are. fat because they're fat slobs, because. they eat wrong, because they don't. exercise. It's their own fault. I don't even think about the fact that.

many of these things might have a common. source. And that she's been tortured by this her. whole life. So, I send her for a sleep. study. She gets on CPAP. Over the time she's on CPAP, she gets a. little bit better. Her sleep is better, she feels better. And then I stumble into vitamin D, okay? Now, we're going to set that as an. example of the most horrible set of. things you could have, perhaps. And another example, and we're going to watch what happens to. these two women over time. The second.

one we'll call Natalie. And Natalie is tall, statuesque, she's a. triathlete. She is also seeing me for daily. headache. She grew up in a family that. is of Italian origin. She is dark tan. She swims, she's athletic, she's outside. all the time in the summer. Five years ago she had her first child, her daughter. She did well, no problems. with her sleep. Two years ago she has.

her son. And since her son was born, she. has not been able to go back to sleep. Even when her son goes back to sleep, she can't. She feels tired, she has postpartum. depression. She had gestational diabetes. Like, she's doing everything perfectly. She. knows everything there is to know. She's. done paleo and keto. She is very well. informed by the things that doctors tell. her to do. And now her sleep is also. abnormal, and she had a few headaches in. high school, but now she has daily.

headache, too. So, there's a 5-year span here where I'm. doing CPAP masks and sleeping pills, and. those are some of the stories. And it's not just limited to women, but. I especially want to point out that. women are more affected because of they. have the babies. So, the next thing that happens is 5. years into it, I've got this beautiful. 18-year-old who's about to go to. college. She comes to see me for daily. headache. She has a sleep study.

that shows none of these phases of deep. sleep. >> So, she's having no deep sleep? >> No deep sleep. And every. 15 minutes or so, my interpretation is her brain is trying. to get into these one of these deep. sleep phases, and she wakes up to light. sleep again. So, every time of the brain. tries to do this, it breaks the white. sleep light sleep light sleep light. sleep. She thinks that she's asleep the. whole night. This shows that she's asleep the whole. night.

But, her sleep study over my 5 years of. experience is horrifying because it's. not just, "Oh, she's missing a little. REM." She has no deep sleep at all. This. is a brainstem. disorder of chemistry that's going to. mean she might meet me 10 years from now. with a stroke. I've taken care of. 28-year-olds who just had a stroke. >> 28 Sorry? >> 28-year-olds. We associate stroke with. being old and having diabetes and. hypertension and heart disease. That.

means I'm looking at this and for the. very first time, I have actually started. to see the diseases that my neurology. patients come in with. and their relationship to sleep. By the. end of the 5 years, I'm doing sleep. studies on anybody who will let me. So, I'm doing little kids, I'm doing moms, I'm doing dads, I'm doing every single. neurologic illness that comes in. They're all abnormal. All of them. This implies that the reason why you get. a disease is because your sleep is not.

restorative. That implies that I should think about. the body as. Golly, I know people who live to be 75. years old and don't have a doctor. They were my grandparents. And then they. started to get medical problems about. age 75 and then they died at 85. Why aren't we looking at it that way? Why aren't we saying, "Oh, this means. your repair system that's designed to. completely repair everything in your. body every night?". And you talked it with um Tara.

Swat about lymphatic drainage, these. things that happen while we're sleeping. It is what makes us last. Like we're not made of Teflon, we're. made of these biological materials and. they repair themselves every night. That's a miracle. If you view it through that lens, then you start to question why is. medicine doing what it is. I'm trained. to ask questions for the thing the. person walks in for. Let's say burning.

in the feet. >> Okay. >> And I'm trained to make a little list of. the diseases that have. resulted in that, and then give a drug for it. And if we. don't find a drug that reverses it, which we haven't for burning, but I'm. going to tell you why, then we give a drug that numbs the pain. a little bit. >> We just kind of plaster over the cracks. >> We're putting Band-Aids on these things. instead of saying, "Well, what do you. think led to this?". >> And this glymphatic drainage point I.

think is a really important one because. what when I understood this glymphatic. drainage idea, it had a profound impact. on my relationship with sleep. I would. argue more so than anything else. There's actually a colleague of mine. who's currently sat out there, right? And I have an emoji that I sent to her. She's called Georgia Gibson. I have an. emo- She She likes to work very hard. And I sent her this particular emoji of. this this I I can't even remember if she. told me what the cartoon was, but it's. these little fish that come out and. clean the big whale.

>> Yes. >> What's the What's that called? >> I don't remember, but I know what you're. talking about. >> Okay, I'll put it on the screen. It's. from like a movie, but everyone in the. comments is probably going to know what. I'm talking about. But, I sent her this. emoji just to remind her that she needs. to sleep cuz she needs to wash her. brain. That's what I say. I say to her, "You need to wash your. brain." Which means go to bed. When you. go to sleep at night, these cleaners you want you know again. again I'm I'm animating this in a way. that's not scientifically accurate, but. these cleaners come out and clean up. your brain. They wash it all and they. clean it and they scrub it and they make. it all back to normal again. So, if. you're not sleeping, then.

you're going to get some kind of build. up of crap. And that could lead to disease or you. know other worse things down down the. line. >> Yes. I. That's a perfect description of it. actually and that's about the level of. what we know. So, the 18-year-old with. no deep sleep, she comes back and say, "Hey, this drug. you gave me for my headaches made my. headaches better, but I'm so tired." And. I'm looking at her sleep study going, "Holy crap, no wonder she's tired. Okay, this is really really bad and this is. invisible. Absolutely invisible to the.

rest of the physicians cuz she looks. perfect." So, I do a B12 level and a. thyroid test because I have no idea what. to do and the B12 is profoundly low. Low enough that it shows up as abnormal. and a little red, okay? Now, the the weird part about this is. I've never done a B12 level in a. headache patient since I've been doing. headaches as a part of neurology, which. is a large part of neurology. I then start to give B12 recommendations. and I do B12 blood tests on all the. patients who I have in my little stable.

of I've done these sleep studies in. them. They still are not sleeping well. unless the sleeping pill works. So, for. about a month I'm doing B12. tests and then one of my patients says. to me, "My doctor said my vitamin D was. low. She gave me vitamin D and my wrist. pain went away." And I had no clue and I. thought, "You know, I'm just doing blood. tests anyway, which I never did in my. headache patients. I'm just going to. throw that in.". I was completely naive. and because I was naive, I was not.

afraid to do this, but I did vitamin D. levels and B12 levels in a group of. about 500 patients between September and. December of 2009. And I gave you the background because I. had all these thoughts buzzing around in. my head. What are we looking for? We're. looking but for something that it. controls the brain stem. Now, they're. going from August or September to. December. That's in the fall. So, if. you're going to make D in the summer, which is when we're supposed to make it. cuz we're out in the sun, that's all I.

knew about D is you make it from the. sun. It's about bones. They were all low. All of them are low. Two of these guys. that are on CPAP come back. They're both. have headaches. They both say the same. thing to me in the same week. You know, I've been wearing the CPAP mask for a. whole year. My headaches hadn't gone. away, but that little note you sent me. last time I was in here when you did my. vitamin D level and you told me to get. vitamin D. I took that for about a. month. My sleep got better and my. headaches went away. Now, I happen to.

know that all the D's were low. But D's about bone. Why would it have. anything to do with sleep? So, I go to. the. PubMed. That's my resource now. I hang. out with PubMed all the time. >> Which is. >> That's where you register all your. articles that we publish. 2009, I put in. two search terms, vitamin D and sleep, and there are no hits. And then, I put in vitamin D in the. brain, and I wind up going to articles. by a guy named Walter Stumpf, S T U M P.

F, who's been writing about vitamin D. for 30 years, who has actually published. that there are vitamin D receptors in. this little stripe along the back of the. brain stem that paralyzes us. Like, he. knows the name of this nucleus. He has. shown articles where the vitamin D. receptors are in this nucleus that. paralyzes us and in the nuclei that are. the clock nuclei that determine what. time it is, what time we go to sleep, when we make these transitions.

The brain always knows exactly what time. it is. Those areas have vitamin D receptors. That means vitamin D is doing something. That means I'm very interested in. thinking if. this vitamin D. is low, like if they say 30 to 100 is. normal and my patients with sleep. disorders and neurologic problems. have vitamin D levels in the low 30s and. below, is there a vitamin D level, not a.

dose, but a brain or a blood level. that I can measure that might make them. sleep better. That would be phenomenal. Should we go down this vitamin D road? I. know nothing about it. I start sending. people for vitamin D levels and giving. them vitamin D and I start reading. Walter Stump has already put together a. beautiful belief system around vitamin D. is the hibernation hormone. It allows animals to adapt their body to. tolerate winter when there's no food. It.

tells their body to do things like the. thyroid hormone lowers the metabolic. rate of all the cells in the body. The weird part is this is written about. beautifully by Walter Stump and because. he has a whole belief system that tells. what you should expect, he's also. published many articles. The first. article is in 1982 about. brain stem. He publishes articles about. postpartum depression, about.

infertility, about. obesity. He's telling us what epidemics. are going to happen, but it's before it. happens because the sunscreens coming. out in '85. and the middle of the air conditioning. computer. And when I'm talking about. this during COVID, it becomes much more. exaggerated, okay? COVID has brought us. all indoors and we're starting to feel. the effects of that even more. exaggerated. So, Walter has this idea. set, I call him up. Luckily, he's.

retired and he takes my phone call. And. I say, "Hey, you don't know me, but I'm. this clinician in Texas and I have this. clinical observation that I've done all. these sleep studies on people. Their brain. that should be sending them through. these particular steps is not. You have. shown that their vitamin D receptors all. over the nuclei that should be running. this. Has anybody written about sleep and. vitamin D? And he says, "No, but it. makes perfect sense. It's the. hibernation hormone. What else would you.

do? You sleep longer.". And it turns out that when our D goes. very low, our brain actually forgets how. to sleep. That's the easiest way to describe it. That gal that I showed you, she had not. only vitamin D deficiency as the primary. deficiency and with secondary deficiency. we're going to talk about, but their your brain just becomes. completely scattered and it's what it's. supposed to do because the the D is. doing a specific thing. It took me a while to figure out. There. are articles that actually took Walter's.

articles and said, "Hey, there are these. D receptors. What hormones do that's. unique is the hormone goes inside the. nucleus. of the cell. and the nucleus has the DNA and it binds. the DNA. And it has a special vitamin D receptor. That's what Walter was measuring. When. it hits that receptor, there's a. specific protein that that DNA. expresses. That means that little piece. of DNA comes out, it makes this protein. The protein that it makes is an enzyme.

that makes acetylcholine. So, that means I can trace through the. scientific literature all the way from. the receptor to the articles that used. that that showed that it was. an enzyme called choline. acetyltransferase. Now, the next part is really important. because what I want out of this is that. Madeline. and Natalie both get better. Okay? This This biochemistry is my. thrill. But, what the listener wants is, how do I get.

better? Now, since I started this and the first. time I started giving vitamin D was in. 2010, this is now. 16 years later. Is vitamin D. any better understood or given out? No. The science is phenomenal. The. recommendations for the doctors. don't go there. The endocrine society. are supposed to be the experts in. hormones. D is a hormone.

>> I think that's an important point, which. is a lot of people think of vitamin D as. some kind of uh what we think of it as a. vitamin, but you're telling me it's it's. a hormone. >> It's the most bizarre thing I've ever. run into in medicine. It's really. bizarre. >> Which was part. >> There was a mistake. There was a mistake made in calling it a. vitamin. It is made on our skin. Now, it turns out animals frequently. lick their fur. And they get their vitamin D that's made.

in their fur. from licking their fur. Some of it's absorbed, but the thing. that's unique about us and pigs, domesticated pigs, is we're bald. That means most of the time we're making. it on our skin. It's never supposed to. be from the food. It was not ever about. the food for us. We don't lick our skin. Therefore, we absorb it through our. skin. And we can actually have salmon. The salmon has vitamin D in it. That's.

the salmon's vitamin D. It's not our vitamin D. It's like saying. you eat salmon, you get salmon estrogen. That should be enough estrogen for you. to have a normal period. That's crazy. If your ovaries are not. making enough estrogen, you won't have a. normal period, okay? They called it a. vitamin, and in the night early '80s, medicine decided vitamins were for. lesser humans. Therefore, D get pushed into that pile, and it got. given over the counter. Now, the. fascinating part about that is.

it turns out to be a good thing that. it's over the counter because the lay. public, once they hear that their whole health. is actually tied to this, and that. they've been doing what their doctor. recommended, which is to use sunscreen. and stay out of the sun, and the original recommendation, cuz I. was there in that early '80s, was don't. sunburn. Every sunburn that's a bad sunburn that. you peel from will age your skin, even.

if you're 10. >> Which is not true enough. >> That's true. >> It's true, yeah. >> That piece is true. Now, the weird thing. is that has been morphed over the last. 40 years into don't ever let the sun. touch your skin. People are smart. If. you tell them that they can use. sunscreen wisely, and it blocks the. ability to make vitamin D, and it has. turned into the combination of sunscreen. plus being inside much more than we ever. were before. When you had air.

conditioning, people slept out on the. roof in Saudi Arabia. That means you. spend much more time outdoors, and it. also turns out there's a particular. move in health and wellness, which is. about the many forms of wavelengths of. energy that we absorb that are given to. us by the sun that are not UVB. UVB is. the wavelength that makes D. There are. Your podcast about infrared? Very, very important. That means there.

are many wavelengths of energy, and the. more time we spend outdoors, the more. our body actually uses those wavelengths. in our biology. Because medicine is so. conservative and so slow to change, they. basically poopoo any new ideas. So, hyperbaric oxygen, laughed at. Infrared, laughed at. Made. made fun of, and therefore you could. actually have your license taken away.

Since COVID, since doctors are now doing things. across video, I am safer in my little. place making my comments, making my. statements. They're made up stories. >> What is a made-up story? >> My telling you my belief system. is a made-up story. This is really an important idea. I thought that everything written in a. book is true. As soon as the publications come out, as. soon as I can go to PubMed,

I thought those things written down were. true. Absolutes. And then you stay in medicine. for 30 years and you realize the things. that you were taught. are not truths anymore. Well, that means they made up those stories. They do a scientific experiment. You and. I are looking at the data, but there's always a conclusory. My conclusions from this data are. Those are always made-up stories. And in.

fact, they're always humans making up stories. You and I. are not listening to stories that ants. make up. or that cats make up. We're very. human-centric. We're studying things that are stories. that humans make up. >> And we're arriving at a conclusion based. on some factors that we can see, which. is, you know, often causation, or. correlation, sorry, and not necessarily. causation.

>> Correlation. Very important. We all have. a belief system. You and I are building. a belief system here. I told you that. Walter Stumpf had a belief system. The. reason why I'm using those terms is. I was really pissed off at the. pulmonologist when I realized. that woman with the sleep apnea, she. wasn't a fat middle-aged male with a fat. tongue. How dare they? Here are these. women, they have headaches, they're. suffering. How dare they make up this story?

And then I began to realize. they made up those stories, that was. their best guess. >> Mhm. >> That is every single person who sits on. this side of the table, it's their best. guess. All of us are or you wouldn't have us on. here, very enthusiastic about our guess. But it's very important to realize that. every belief system means you see the. world through that, but it always has. blinders. >> Mhm. >> There are things that you won't be able. to see because of it as well.

Then you must move into a point of view. which is I need to stay flexible. What. if new information comes? >> Yeah. >> Okay? So, the deep belief system at the moment is. that it's a vitamin. And there's a huge political fight. within the medical literature. It's very. weird. >> The deep belief system, what do you. mean? >> Medicine has decided that the only way. you can get any important information is. to have.

a control group, a study group. The study group gets. X, a drug, in this case vitamin D, and you compare the outcome of both. groups. >> And what does the other group get? The. placebo? Basically, they think it's a. drug, but it's nothing. >> Yeah. And then you compare the outcome. The problem is. in no biological pathway is there only. one variable. There's never one. variable. And that means when you give one a. hormone,

you also need to know. that hormones are always in done by. blood levels, and that the normal state. for the human body and every biologic. animal, including plants, is that hormones stay in a tight little. narrow band. Too much and too little are. both not good. Goal always goes towards. the middle. In the lay experience, this is why we do. blood levels of testosterone, if we give. you testosterone supplement. If we give.

you estrogen, in thyroid, even lay. people know. my aunt would get crazy when her thyroid. was off, and it could be too high or too. low. D is exactly the same. Yet, they do these studies based on a fixed. dose. So, it doesn't matter what the level is, what time of the year, how much sun. they're getting, they're all getting. 4,000 IUs. >> So, they could be having too much or too. little. >> No blood levels are taken.

>> So, you're saying that it should be. personalized the amount of vitamin D. >> Absolutely. Any hormone that you take, if you compare, that's why the Endocrine. Society is so important. They know. in 2004 when they gave the final. recommendation for the doctors in. practice, they know that the studies. that have been done so far are rarely. done in the way a hormone should be. studied. And they say that in their. report. They spent a whole year looking. at this chemical, all the research. that's done. And they say, "You know, we.

don't really have any good studies. We. don't have any clinical studies like. mine, for instance, where where relating. the dose that we give the person to the. blood level that's achieved. Therefore, you would think they would say, "We need. more studies." No, here's what they. said. "Therefore, you should not do. vitamin D levels, and you should not. give recommendations about vitamin D, taking it or not taking it. You should. just avoid the whole conversation. because. what's going to happen when you do a. vitamin D levels, you're going to call. me up.

and you're going to say, "What dose. should I give? The D level is this." And. we don't know. So, they've said, "Don't be curious. Don't do it.". That's insane. Now, that means the lay public is coming. to me and other people on the internet. and they're coming to podcasts like this. to learn about it. And there are a lot. of conflicting. attitudes. I may be one of the biggest recorder in. my brain, which is not in a data dump.

that I can put into an article, of how to manage vitamin D levels, what. you should do, what you should do with. dosing. And that's one of the things I. have in this workbook that we're going. to talk about. >> Every talk to me founders, they all. carry the same belief that the biggest. threat to their small business is having. a bad product. It's not. The biggest. threat they face is hiring the wrong. person for their small team. Because bad. hires put the handbrake on growth and. rapidly infect company culture. And I. get it. When you're starting out, you. need eight players to grow your company, but you don't have 40 spare hours to.

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first job for free at linkedin.com/doac. That's linkedin.com/doac. Terms and conditions apply. If you're thinking about starting a. business, one of the first decisions. you'll have to make is actually one of. the most important, which is where do. you build that business? Our product. team who manages everything we do from. our conversation cards to our diaries. has always used our sponsor Shopify. There are a few reasons for this, but. one of the big ones is that when you're. running a business, you really need your. own store and your own customer data.

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out yourself. It's just already built. into their platform. If you are serious. about starting your own thing, start. your free trial at shopify.com/bartlett. I'm very curious about Madeline and. Natalie still. >> Great. >> What happened to Madeline and Natalie? >> For 2 years, I'm talking to Walter on. the phone, and I start giving vitamin D. to my my patients, and I learn that. every single person needs a unique. amount. Very scary. I mean, everybody else is saying, "Oh, take 5,000, take 10,000, take 20,000." I.

take 100,000 once a month, okay? And I find out also that if you get past. about a level of 60, that's when they come back and say, "You. know what? My sleep is better." Now, importantly, I still was operating under the. false belief that there's only one. variable, okay? I came up in medicine. using drugs. That means you match the. drug to the complaint. Oh, that one. didn't work, and then we do this one, and then we do this one, okay? I'm ashamed that I looked at it that.

way, but that was my training. So, I. thought vitamin D was going to fix. everything. Within the next 6 months, my. patients start to come back and say. horrible things like, "My joints ache all over." And my. doctor's about to send me to the. rheumatologist who does autoimmune. diseases.". >> Like arthritis? >> Exactly. Then the next person comes in. and says, "I've got this terrible. burning in my hands and feet.". And another woman comes in the same. month with burning in her hands and.

feet. Two women, same month, they have. nothing in common except they both have. headaches and they've been doing vitamin. D with me for 2 years. And they say they. want to know, "Is this related to that. vitamin D that I've been taking with. you?" And now I'm very freaked out. because I'm afraid that what I've been. doing, even though their sleep is better. and we're all happy about that, headaches were better, now they're a. little worse again, is I've put them in a situation where. they are now using more of whatever.

these building blocks are and I've I've. actually forced them into another. deficiency state. I'm making them make. more repairs and now they're deficient. in something else and I don't know what. Now, a patient walks in with a book. This is why I'm telling you that my. patients are the ones that taught me all. this stuff. And I'm telling you these. embarrassing stories because they come. in and they say, "Did you do this to. me?". That's very uncomfortable. And I don't know, but I feel a. commitment that I better find out. And a.

woman walks in with a book that's called. the pain-free promise of pantothenic. acid. God forbid it's another vitamin. So, I happen to have developed over the same. time period this weird buttock pain. I can't sit down to talk to my patients. at the end of the day because my butt. hurts. So, I feel like I have the same. thing. So, I read this book. It says pantothenic acid. is a chemical that makes this thing.

called coenzyme A. Coenzyme A is responsible for making. cortisol. I think. I don't think that's causing this. burning, but this is something I need to. know about. And cortisol is big in. sleep. We talk about cortisol all the. time, the timing of it. And it's huge in. inflammation. I go to the vitamin store, I find pantothenic acid. The book says. 400 mg is the right dose. So, I pick up. the 400 mg and I go to the B complex. I.

find something called B100, which means. there's each one has got 100 mg or 100. micrograms. I go home with these two. things. I start taking them. And I give recommendations to the anyone. who comes in in that one week. where I have a sleep study, they have a new complaint. I give a recommendation of B100 and B5. What the book did was it sent me to the. references. The articles that she.

references are from the 1950s. in this creepy. lab next to the Iowa State Prison. where they're doing these creepy. experiments on prisoners before it. becomes illegal. They published this. article saying, "If you block. pantothenic acid for 2 weeks, you see four things. They can't sleep. They have belly complaints, bloating and. all sorts of things. They have a funny. puppet-like gait and they have burning. in their hands and feet.". And I go, "This is wonderful." So, that was one of.

the motivations. So, the cortisol link. to pain. and the burning in the hands and feet. Now, I got it in my head that I've made. them. use more of the B vitamins. >> So, let's just pause there. So, you're. saying that by asking your patients to. take more vitamin D, you're saying that. the body has also started to use more B. vitamins, which means that by taking. more vitamin D then I'm deficient in B. vitamins. >> Yes. >> And so, when you use vitamin D,

you also use more B vitamins. >> There's another point that I'm about to. make, but you summarized it perfectly. So, the next [clears throat] question. would be, "Okay, I'm taking 400 mg cuz. that's what it says in the book, and. that's the only dose that was on the. shelf in the vitamin store.". I get to the end of the week and I. realize I have restless legs, and my. restless legs has been much worse this. week. This is probably too big a dose, and I stop the 400 mg and everything. goes away. My butt pain goes away like.

in a day. >> 400 mg of. >> B5. >> Okay. >> So, pantothenic acid is called B5. All the patients who come back say, "Were you trying to kill me? This 400 mg here, I got so agitated. I stopped it after 2 days. I felt like I. was crawling out of my skin, and I. couldn't sleep at all. If you block B5, you get insomnia. That means it has. power in sleep.

D has power in sleep. But it turns out if it has power in. sleep, your body has a very specific. amount that it wants. If you give it too. much, it's not happy. If you give it too. little, it's not happy. And it turns out. that instead of giving you one thing. when it's low and another thing when. it's high, which is what I would have. anticipated, it goes back to the same. thing. When it's not happy, it just. stops sleeping. Now, a couple of them. come back and say, "You know, I stopped. the 400 mg because I was so agitated I.

couldn't sleep at all, but I stayed on. B100. I feel great. My sleep is perfect. My pain is gone." And I said, "That's. what happened to me.". It's just like too weird. This chemical is doing something, and. it's acting what I would say to my. patients is, "Be very careful with this. because I don't really know what dose. you'll need. If it's too much, it'll act like. caffeine and it'll keep you up at night, okay? Then, the next thing that happens is a. gal comes in and says, "You know, you. gave me that B100.

And I I ached all over. I would get up. in the morning and I'd go. And she said, "You know what? I broke it. in half. and I'm taking that and I feel great.". What you'll see here is B50, which is 50. mg of each, but all eight Bs. has 50 mg of. of B5 in it. It turns out, if you've. been taking D for 2 years, you've. actually worked your way into a place. where your body has been using more Bs. and you are now very profoundly. deficient. But she did not take 2 years.

She was a new patient to me. She had not. been on D for that period of time. The. reason why this discussion is important. is there are millions of people who. started taking D in COVID. who by the fourth year after taking it. started to have burning in their hands. and feet. They're not even taking it. anymore. They took it from 2020 to 2023. Their levels got into the 60s. Their. doctor said, "Hey, 60 is enough. Stop. taking the vitamin D." But they still. show up with the B vitamin diagnoses and.

they go to their doctor and they say, "Oh, well, you've developed lupus. Oh, or you have this. Oh, or you have that.". These are all diseases that have been. described already, but they haven't been. described as B vitamin deficiency. states, which is bizarre, but that's the. historical point. All of the literature. says, "B5 deficiency doesn't exist. because it's in every food.". Now, I'm reading that literature and it. says. thiamine, which is B1, has a poop. bacteria source and a food source.

B2, poop bacteria and a food source. All of them come from the poop. >> What do you mean come from the poop? >> These eight chemicals called B. all of them are made by bacteria. and we absorb them. Everybody knows that. we have the wrong microbiome. And we've all been told that it's. toxins, antibiotics are the major thing. that are blamed, but we now have a huge. body of literature about the microbiome.

being abnormal. Here's. >> microbiome? >> Yes. The other weird part about it is. there are these guys in Oklahoma, GI. surgeons, who are giving poop. transplants. >> Give me context on what that is. >> They take poop from one person and they. push it up the other person's butt. Like. we've spent 100 years saying stay away. from the poop, it's bad for you. Don't. go from the poop to your mouth, okay? We've made this idea that the bacteria. we're fighting against them. They're. trying to take us over and they're bad. and we're fighting against them.

But as people are dying of. things like Clostridium difficile, which. C. diff is the way it's shortened, they're dying of C. diff infection and. they're doing poop transplants. and they live. It turns out that the eight B vitamins. were first described as bacterial growth. factors. They are chemicals that one. bacteria is able to make and it. pushes it out of its cell. into the environment. And this one next. to it, that's a different one, goes,

>> [gasps]. >> "Goody, give me that." And those guys. live together as a group, a commensal, meaning each one of them derive benefit. from having the other one there. So. there are four big groups of bacteria. that is the normal human microbiome. Well, why are there four? Why is it. always this four? And how come we only. know. about 2% of them? We're saying all these.

things that the microbiome is wrong. Turns out we only know 2%. of 200 bacteria that are normal. occupants from the mouth, from the lips. all the way to the anus. We only know. 2%. But we have the genetic footprint of. every single one. We are able to take. them out of the poop or out of the small. intestine or out of the mouth and we can. say these are the genetics and we've. named all of them. So we know there are. 200. >> Okay. >> And the article that they write is, you.

know, it looks to us like. the reason why this foursome of groups. hang out together is because they all at. least need one B vitamin. and they produce at least one. So they all have. a relationship to the B vitamins and we. should start thinking about the. microbiome. as the production system that supplies. the B vitamins to the body. I didn't. find that article until after. But here I am back again with one big. question. These two women with the.

burning in their hands and feet. Why did. they get B vitamin deficient? If the B's. come from the food. they've had the same diet all along and. I don't I haven't controlled their diet. I haven't made them change their diet. Why did all of these people come back. with these complaints? The one thing we know is many of them. have IBS symptoms which are a signal. that the bacteria isn't right. >> IBS? What's that? >> Irritable bowel syndrome. >> Yeah. >> Diarrhea, constipation, bloating, my. belly isn't right. >> Yeah. >> Because I had assumed that D was going.

to fix everything. >> Vitamin D. Mhm. >> That vitamin [clears throat] D was going. to fix their belly. And it didn't. There were several things that did not. get better. One, their IBS didn't get. better. Two, they didn't lose weight. That was really weird because they were. out exercising more. They were out. exercising in the middle of the day but. they didn't lose weight. That means. there's still something wrong in the. background where they didn't lose. weight. So I'm stuck with, okay, why didn't did. the D fix the B.

thing? Oh. Oh. These were all described as bacterial. growth factors. I have assumed that vitamin D was a. bacterial growth factor because Walter. talked about the GI tract having all. sorts of receptors for vitamin D. And so I assume that the bacteria that. lived inside us needed vitamin D to be. normal. And therefore I assume that IBS showed. up in the 1980s [clears throat]. because we went into D deficiency and. that D deficiency caused this IBS.

There were no articles about that in. humans until 2020 when COVID came and. they actually started to realize that. the people who were D deficient died in. COVID and they started to actually look. at, oh, is the microbiome playing a role. in our immune system? Yes. If I give vitamin D, will the bacterial. makeup of my stool change in a positive. way? >> My poop. >> Exactly. Does the poop bacteria makeup.

change in a positive way? We know we've. seen people who don't have inflammatory. disorders and they have these this. bacterial makeup will giving vitamin D. change the population? And yes, that's. the answer. Now, I realized now I'm. giving two bacterial growth factors, D. and now I'm giving B100 and I'm giving a. large dose of all eight Bs. Remember. that? Give all eight. >> Mhm. >> That means by accident I have actually. given eight bacterial growth factors.

that are necessary for bringing the poop. bacteria back to the normal human makeup. that it's supposed to be that it has. always come to be spontaneously. That's a really important point. All the. other animals in the world, they're not. obese. There are no obese squirrels in. my backyard. The only obese animals are. our cats and dogs that we keep inside. >> So to summarize for me, what is the link. between vitamin D and the B vitamins? >> It turns out that all the Bs come from. the microbiome.

>> Yes, okay. I understand. >> In order to have the correct microbiome, we are actually commensal organisms. with our microbiome. That means we have. to provide D, they in turn provide us with B's. >> Okay. So, it's not a good thing that you. gave them D then cuz then the body makes. B. >> Yes, but it didn't make B on its own. Otherwise, those side effects like my. butt pain wouldn't have been there, okay? So, let's bring that let's bring. that into focus.

The D by itself did not correct the. microbiome. >> Yeah. >> So, when I took 5,000 of D between 2020. and 2023, and I took it for 3 years cuz my doctor. told me it was okay, but in 2025, I started to have rheumatoid arthritis. symptoms. The D did not correct my microbiome. It. actually made me deficient. I'm going to. give you the drug for rheumatoid. arthritis. I'm not going to picture it. as, "Oh, you need B50.".

>> So, you gave B50, but then didn't they. have another problem? >> Most of the time, what happens after the. B50 is everything comes back to normal, the GI tract corrects. You have to take. it only for 3 months. I was taking it. for 4 and 1/2 months. And I started to wake up and feel old. >> Yeah. >> And everything I just parenthetically. told you about the the GI tract was. percolating around in my brain. And what I had told my patients was, "You know, I think we've stumbled on the. growth factor that the right microbiome.

needs. And I think the reason you became B. vitamin deficient was because it was the. wrong microbiome, but when we give them. what they need, they're going to grow. back.". >> Okay, fine. >> to grow back and. they're going to do their job. >> Okay, so. >> they're going to produce B50. They're. going to make that. >> me summarize that. So, by giving them. B50 for a short period of time, you. [snorts] were kind of jump-starting the. gut microbiome, and then you don't want. to keep giving it to them or else. they're going to become like dependent. or not do their job properly. So, you.

want to give it to them for 3 months, let them jump start, and then they'll do. their job, and then you leave them. alone. >> Yes, and I want to add one more thing. The way you think about it is. probiotics. are bacteria. You dump the bacteria down, and you. swallow it, and it goes into your small. intestine, but if it does not have the growth. factors that it needs, which every. bacteria has its little set of growth. helpers it needs to be able to absorb. from the actual juice that's down there.

If it doesn't have that, it can't. reproduce. Every bacteria that's sitting in my. small intestine right now, 12 hours from now is going to be in a. different place. >> Mhm. >> A day [clears throat] from now, I'm. going to poop it out. Who's up here now? The great, great, granddaughters of the. bacteria that are sitting there while. you're I are talking. They reproduce. rapidly. You have to picture them like a. river. Like we're sitting in, and we're. looking at the river, and the water.

looks like this. And 10 minutes later, the water looks. the same. But, that's not the same water that we. were looking at 10 minutes ago. That. water is downstream. >> [snorts]. >> That means the level of reproduction. that they are expected to do requires. constant production of these growth. factors. Now, it turns out that you. don't have to think about that. All you. have to do is have the normal bacteria. that was generated spontaneously when.

you were born because mom was giving you. D in her breast milk, and it also had. eight Bs. Those eight Bs came from her. normal microbiome in the breast milk. That means you had everything you. needed, and then you were out in the. sun. You were born in June or July in. the summer, and then you got D on your skin, and. that process has replicated for 300,000. years. For 250 million years, the. dinosaurs had a microbiome in their.

intestines. This is so old, it's. unimaginable. >> So, what is the conclusion here then? Cuz I do want to bring this back to. Natalie and Madeline. >> Okay. >> I still haven't figured out what what. you what you told them to do. >> Steven, you are so smart and it's so. such a pleasure to talk to you. These. are difficult points. Madeline is. struggling with all these things. She's. slowly getting better. Then we do the D, she's slowly getting. better. Then we do the B100. And then.

it's freaking awesome. She starts to. lose the pain that she had down her leg. The burning in her hands and feet goes. away. Her sleep gets much better. Now, she's into year three and four. of what becomes the right sleep program. And she's still on 30,000 IUs of D a. day. That's an immense dose. Most people. are taking 5 to 10. She's been taking 30,000 a day for 4. years. Her D level has stayed the same. It's in the 60s. She's doing a great job.

of keeping everything the same. That really means that her body is using. 30,000 IUs of vitamin D a day for 4. years. That's a very important concept. because it means. she is using so much more than anybody. else is using in my practice. Most. people are on 10,000. But she's making these amazing repairs. Her depression is gone. She's stopped. three medicines that we've been using. for pain control. She now gets up in the morning and she. feels energetic. She's starting a.

program that the Texas state has for. going back to work. You know, I was like, "This gal's never. going back." She wants to go back to. work. She is a totally different person. Now, importantly, she is not 100 lb thinner. She's still 100 lb overweight. And that. is It's of the things that happen in. most of my patients and clients. The. body will not lose that weight until. it's really made every repair it thinks. is necessary. And then it decides that.

it's not going to need this fat anymore. >> So with her, did you take her off the B. vitamins? >> The routine is that one, they have to do. D. And this this will become the right. sleep program. >> But they have to do D because they're. not getting sunlight. >> Correct. >> We none of us really get enough. sunlight. >> Correct. So and we can talk about. supplement versus sun. But the D is. pivotal to the entire program and it has. to continue. And if you have a sleep. problem or medical problems, you will do.

better if you get your D above 60 and. keep it around there. >> Mhm. >> That is not the same as saying what is. the ideal D level for a human who wants. to. overachieve. It is not the same. Okay? >> Mhm. >> So she's on D. She stays on D the rest. of her life as long as she needs it. And. she's always checking her D levels. Then. she goes on B100. She happened to be one. of the ones that was on D by itself for. 2 years. If you have been on D for two.

or three or five years in the past and. have developed B vitamin deficiency. states, then you will have to go back on. D with the B50. And you will do that for 3 months. And. then you will stop and you'll go down to. a much lower dose. That's a multivitamin. One of the things. in the background that we haven't talked. about yet is there are actually hundreds. of things that the bacteria are doing. for us that are just starting to be. reported. But they have been pivotal all along in. all the minerals. All the minerals that.

show up in a multivitamin, all the magnesium, calcium, selenium, manganese, all these things that. nobody's really interested in and they. all are in list on their multivitamin. All through this same time frame, people. are developing iron deficiency and iron. overload. And it turns out that the bacteria have. been a pivotal part in our intestine. speaking to our body about whether or. not our iron level is low or high in the. liver. or in the blood system in our bone. marrow or in our brain. And if you do.

not have a specific bacteria called. Lactobacillus reuteri, you will be. missing a brand new metabolite or. chemical that was named after that. bacteria just in the last 3 years that's. called reuteri that is one of the. chemical messengers that our body uses. So, that means many of the deficiency. states that the naturopaths and the. functional medicine people are studying. are all linked to the fact that this. bacterial tube has been doing all these.

things for us all along. And when you. lost them, each individual person has. its own set of specific deficiency. states that must be addressed for their. sleep to get better. >> This is something that I've made for. you. I realized that the Diary of a CEO. audience are strivers, whether it's in. business or health, we all have big. goals that we want to accomplish. And. one of the things I've learned is that. when you aim at the big, big, big goal, it can feel incredibly psychologically.

uncomfortable because it's kind of like. being stood at the foot of Mount Everest. and looking upwards. The way to. accomplish your goals is by breaking. them down into tiny small steps. And we. call this in our team the 1%. And. actually this philosophy is highly. responsible for much of our success. here. So, what we've done is that you at. home can accomplish any big goal that. you have is we've made these 1% diaries. And we released these last year and they. all sold out. So, I asked my team over. and over again to bring the diaries.

back, but also to introduce some new. colors and to make some minor tweaks to. the diary. So, now we have a better. range for you. So, if you have a big. goal in mind and you need a framework. and a process and some motivation, then. I highly recommend you get one of these. diaries before they all sell out once. again. And you can get yours at the. diary.com. And if you want the link, the link is in. the description below. I want to go back to Madeline. So, my. question was because the research that. I'm reading says that vitamin D does not.

cause, trigger, or create a B vitamin. deficiency. >> No, it's not in the literature except my. article. >> Taking vitamin D supplements will not. drain your. your body's B vitamins. >> Let me read my my title. Vitamin D. deficiency changes the intestinal. microbiome reducing B vitamin production. in the gut. The resulting lack of pantothenic acid. adversely affects the immune system. producing a pro-inflammatory state. associated with atherosclerosis and. autoimmunity. This is a brand new. discovery.

made by someone who's not a scientist, who's not working in the primary lab, who is a clinician, and the impact of. this. is only as strong as. I can get the the ideas out there and. talk about what happened to my patients. Now, >> Is it Is it plausible that there's a. sort of a intermediary link. um between the two? I'm reading some. things here that say people are very. frequently both low in vitamin D and.

vitamin B12 at the same time, and this. is because they share the same root. cause like a poor gut absorption, aging, or a restrictive diet, not because one. vitamin is destroying the other. >> That's what we've been told. We've also been told that old people. don't need as much sleep. And that old. people get a bad gut as they get old. It is my belief now that it is. there is an absolute link between the. production of D. I don't have the. articles for this even though this is. dogma at the moment that our production.

of vitamin D goes down as we get older. So, if you look back to that person who. was 75, who didn't get sick until they. were 75. >> [snorts]. >> Their skin production, even though. they're still out there with their truck. farm and still raising their own food, their skin production rate of vitamin D. goes down and this is probably true for. every animal. And then, as their D goes low, they lose. their microbiome and then they die of. one of the multiple diseases that are. linked to this multiple deficiency.

state. It's a different lens to look. through that says. there is actually. a system that allowed us to live without. medical problems that weren't either. related to epidemics of childhood. illness or starving to death. And as. long as we had good diets, you can. actually look at 1945 to about 1985 and. say, "What was the ideal for the humans. that lived rurally in the United States? Did they live to be 75 years old and.

then get diseases?". So, it's my claim that those people. didn't go to the doctor cuz there. weren't any around them. And then, things started to happen to. them. And instead of looking at it. through the lens of this disease means. this drug, that instead we say we should. pre-preventing this by paying attention. to what vitamin D does in the body. and what the B's do in the body. And ultimately,

that is linked to most of our diseases. >> Okay, so I'll read the conclusion of. your study. >> Okay. >> which was published in 2016. I. hypothesize, and it's important to say. this [clears throat] is a hypothesis, that the parallel epidemics of abnormal. sleep and abnormal intestinal microbiome. are linked to one another through. vitamin D deficiency. Proper. supplementation doses of vitamin D plus. all eight B vitamins appears to return. the intestinal microbiome to normal in 3. months. Reinstating the normal. microbiome not only treats IBS symptoms, it returns the supply of vitamin.

B's to their natural daily doses. The B. vitamins are neither good for us nor. unnecessary. They are good for the. person who needs them and only until the. normal source picks up again. Both sleep. disruption and pain can be caused by. large doses of B vitamins once the. intestinal microbiome has returned to. normal. The B vitamins are very. biologically intertwined both in their. intestinal production and cellulose. cellular use. This suggests that B. vitamins aside from B12 were not meant. to be used individually and trying to.

restorative sleep with normal supply of. the building blocks of cellular repair. has the potential to repair the. pro-inflammatory state seen in. association with atherosclerosis. >> Atherosclerosis. >> As well as the hyperandrogenic. state of associated with hypertension, heart disease, and stroke. It appears. that given the proper essential elements. for normal sleep, the body is designed. to repair every physical injury that. occurs during normal daily use and may. even retain a memory of long deferred.

repairs. So, essentially you're saying. that um. if you can return the body's vitamin D. and and B levels to normal. then the body will kick back up and. start producing. the um. everything it needs. >> Yes. >> But, I guess the scientific consensus at. the moment is saying that there's not a. link between vitamin D. and a vitamin B Well, it's saying that. vitamin D does not cause a vitamin B. deficiency. >> Correct. >> And you disagree with that.

>> Absolutely. >> And could it be the case that there's. some intermediary link? I.e. If I take. if I take lots of vitamin D, it disrupts. my magnesium production and the. magnesium production is having an impact. on vitamin B and could it be the case. that it's something else? >> Yes, of course. >> Okay. >> And in fact, it's way more complicated. than you and I have talked about. And where you finally arrive is actually. at coenzyme A deficiency.

And that is a very important chemical. It runs our mitochondrial health and our. ability to make energy and it's linked. to all the. degenerative diseases, etc. So, it's not that. I don't understand the. idea that once you're a hammer. everything's a nail because that's what. I was told by all of my colleagues that. you're trying to explain everything. It's that I saw Madeline go back to work.

and we haven't even talked about what. happened to Natalie. >> What happened to Natalie? >> Natalie got better and actually. >> How? >> She first with the D, like most of the. patients, she started to sleep better, but at the end of 2 years she stopped. sleeping better. She actually lost weight, which was the. case with several of the women that were. postpartum who had complained about. that. So, in some my interpretation was in. someone who is less affected than.

Madeline was, the D B50 combination, especially in the setting of being after. the pregnancy, is really all somebody. who is relatively normal with the start. of their life needs. And then she got better. Her. antidepressant went away. Her postpartum. depression cleared. Her high heart rate. So, the other thing that we didn't. mention is many of these women who are. very interested in exercise and doing. exercise had high heart rates of 110 or.

above sitting quietly and had not been. like that before. Their high heart rates. come down. So, she came back to being her normal. self again. >> And did she have to come off the vitamin. B? >> She only took it for 3 months. >> Okay. And she. >> she did a multivitamin and then. eventually almost everybody needs to be. off the multivitamin completely. It is. my belief that if all of this happened. spontaneously in every other animal on. the planet, then we shouldn't have to take.

supplements, either. The squirrels are. not going to GNC to buy supplements. That means if there's a mistake made, like we move indoors, and we give back. what is needed to get the normal. microbiome, then you should assume that your body. will go back to supporting itself. >> And that leads she's good again? >> Natalie's back to being. a triathlete and doing great. >> If we zoom out for a second, what is the. advice you'll give to all of my.

listeners now? There might be millions. them all over the world, some of which. are struggling with sleep. Some of them. just want to, you know, optimize their. sleep a little bit. What is the the over. overarching advice, the thing that all. of them could could do to make sure they. sleep better in your view? >> One, do the behavioral and cognitive. stuff first. Make the blackout curtains, do the whole thing. If you haven't done that with eye cover, then go ahead and do that. And if that's. all you need, do not mess around with. supplements. Two, if you've already done the.

behavioral changes, then go to my website, read about the. ideas, or listen to this podcast, and. see whether or not the ideas there feel. like they apply to you. >> You've come up with this protocol called. the right sleep protocol. What is that? And can you walk me through that? >> Sure. So, the right sleep program is. a process of taking your D to a certain. level, supplementing B12 if your B12 is at a. certain level below a certain level,

taking B50 for 3 months, and then taking a multivitamin. And that is until your body says, "Gee, I might need more. Bs.". This is a diagram, and you have a beautiful stepwise. a visual assist here. The first. 3 months, if your B12 is low, you will. take B12 as a separate supplement. And. keep in mind there's a lot to be learned. about multivitamins. For instance,

many multivitamins say multivitamin on. the front, but they actually have the. equivalent of B50 in them. They have 50 mg of all these B vitamins. In fact, if you go to an expensive. vitamin store, they put up the doses of. Bs. The doses of these vitamins are. extremely important for the way you feel. every day. If you get it right, you feel energetic, perky, and wonderful all day. If you get. it wrong, you feel awful in the same way. you did before. You have to look at the.

back. You have to learn some of the name. of these vitamins. Most people are not. at that interested in that. If you want. to get better, that's what you have to. do. So, the first step is you're taking all. four of these, then. in the second step. for a period of usually 3 to 4 months, you're still taking B12 if you were B12. deficient. You're still taking vitamin D and you're. adjusting your vitamin D dosing based on. recommendations based on your D levels. that you're doing every month. And I.

show you how to get them done properly. because the vitamin D levels that your. doctor is doing are not accurate, unfortunately, nor do they know that or. care. And you're still taking a multivitamin. Then. after [clears throat] the 3 months. that are depicted here. it turns out if your sleep is much. better. you will actually get to a place. where. your body will stop sleeping well again.

And it turns out that your brain is. asking for more. additional Bs. The basic bottom line is the sleep is a. thing that once you learn how to use it. and once you learn the concept that. if in the third or fourth month of this. program, my sleep gets much better. and then in the sixth month it gets. worse again, what you should take from. that is my brain really knows how to do. this. It was able to get me to sleep.

from 10:00 to 6:00 with one brief wake. up, went back to sleep, didn't get up to. pee, and I have no pain when I wake up. and I feel energetic all day long. It. knows how to do that. When it doesn't do it again 2 months. later, the message is not, "Oh man, I. knew it wouldn't work." Cuz everything. else I've tried didn't work. Instead, it. means. what my brain is asking for is something. else. Then.

you address that. On my website, I also have multiple. videos of Q&As addressing questions. like, "I'm in the fifth month and this. happened to me, etc.". So, what I would give as advice is one, supplementation is only good for you if. there's something wrong with you that. you're trying to correct. Two, keep a log of what happens to that. thing. because we tend to forget. All my.

headache patients forget that they had. headaches when they go away. That's. challenging to a clinician because they. come back and they say, "Yeah, I still. have headaches." And then their husband. says, "Wait, we were in Vegas 2 weeks. ago and you said we didn't you didn't. have any headaches at all.". And she says, "Oh, I know, but they're. back now." We view it as it should have. fixed me and now it hasn't. This is a. different belief system where the answer. is. your brain is asking you for something. Interpreting [clears throat] what it's. asking for is difficult, but possible.

>> So, number one was. >> if you do not have something wrong with. you, do not mess with supplements, especially D. >> Number two is keep a look. >> Read more, think about it. Think about. it a little bit. Think about whether or. not there are things that are bothering. you. >> Okay, number three. >> Number three is if there's something. bothering you, then decide you're. actually going to take some time. and you're going to learn about a system. which allows you to give supplements. that lets your body be fully replete,

which means fills up all the. deficiencies and that your final outcome. will be great sleep, great repair, and. you will be doing things that will allow. your body to prevent. degenerative illness. >> you just, you know, why don't I just, instead of taking supplements, will be. this, be that, be the other D, whatever. Why don't I just go outside in the sun. and have a better diet? >> I think that's a great. question and.

here's the problem. >> So, I've got, you know, I've got all. these things, these wonderful things. here. I've got. I've got some kimchi, which is good for. the gut microbiome, I've heard. I've got. kombucha. I've got. some yogurt thing here. I've got I can't. even pronounce that. >> Sauerkraut. >> Sauerkraut. And I've got some kefir. Why don't I. just. have all this stuff, which is great for. my gut microbiome, and then go outside. and spend spend the morning in the. sunshine getting up improving my vitamin. D levels. Presumably, this is going to. help my gut and the sunshine is going to.

help my vitamin D. Voilà. >> I think you could actually do that. If. there's not much wrong with you, I think. that's the better path, frankly. Supplementing with vitamin D is not the. same as being outdoors. >> Okay, explain that to me. >> same. >> What do you mean it's not the same? How. is it different? Cuz my doctor did a. blood test recently and I did two blood. tests, one at Nico Health, #hard, #investor. Um Nico Health and. the Nico Health test that I did said I. was vitamin D deficient, which doesn't.

surprise me cuz I live in this dark. bunker. I don't I never leave the Drive Thru. studio. People just walk in and I live. in here and I eat in here and I. But I am vitamin D deficient, it said. So, I went to the store and I just. started taking vitamin D. I assume. that's fixed it. Why is vitamin D supplementation. different from being out in the sun? >> There is a lot of literature about by a. gal named Stephanie Seneff. who says that the vitamin D that we make. on our skin skin is sulfated, which is. different than the vitamin D we're. taking as supplement. And it has a. different behavior in the body. Number.

two, it turns out there's a lot of. literature that shows that vitamin D is. not the only thing made by UVB hitting. your your skin. And what it's hitting is. cholesterol. And that cholesterol is changed as. chemical called D 3. But there are. probably 15, 20 other chemicals that are. being made at the same time. >> Okay. >> They are not being taken with that pill. of vitamin D3. That is a separate. literature that's just gotten really.

some attention in the last 10 years. There are all these other things that. prevent inflammation, that do things to. your skin, that were actually being made. by the sunlight that you're being. exposed to, that protects you from the. damaging effects. >> So, why can't someone who is really. struggling with their sleep, why can't. the prescription just be. improve your your diet? >> Have you tried that with patients where. you said You've not? >> One of the reasons why these are. effective.

>> The the the. >> the fermented foods, okay? Fermented. food means you're eating rotting food. That's not the way we call it because it. sounds disgusting, okay? But bacteria. are growing in here. >> Yeah. >> and they're secreting things like B. vitamins and reuteri. They're making a. yeast bacterial mixture. So, there's. fungus growing in there, there are. viruses in there, there are many. microbiomes. >> Microbes. >> Microbes, thank you. >> Huh, look at me. >> [snorts].

>> Look at me. >> You're awesome. That means you're eating. bacteria. You're basically eating a food. that has to be 50 in it. >> Which is great. >> Yeah. So. >> So, why don't you give that to your. patients? >> Because I have no idea what the time. frame will be for this having that. success for you. This is the easy way. This is the fast way. This is the way I. can tell you that I've had more. experience with my clients over time. And if you want to fix something that's. really badly off, by the time you get a. sleep disorder.

>> that can't see cuz they're just. listening on audio, you're pointing at. the vitamins. >> I'm pointing at the vitamins and the. step-wise approach, which is right. there. >> and easy approach. >> Exactly. And if you don't want to use. supplements, I would support you all the. way. >> In doing what? >> In going outside, just what you. described. I think the healthier. approach to all of our diseases is to be. outside much more and to include these. fermented foods. >> Now, on this point of being outside much. more, some people live in cloudy places,

you know, I spent a lot of my life. living in places like London in the UK. And there's not much sunlight. >> Right. >> So, what do I do about that? >> Remember how I said that Madeline was a. redhead? >> Yeah. >> That turns out to be important. So, melanin is the pigment that humans have. in their skin. You have more than I do. I put more melanin as I stay out in the. sun more and I tan. >> Mhm. >> [clears throat]. >> That melanin is absorbing energy. It's. there to protect you from overexposure. to sunlight and damaging effects on the.

DNA of your skin. The redhead gene usually comes with. freckles, which means that there is only. little tiny parts of the skin that have. melanin. And the redhead gene came about in the. far north. Viking Scotland. And those places don't get much. sunlight. That means it cleared out the. blocker. of the thing that collected that energy. and allowed people who lived in very.

overcast environments to make D because. the melanin didn't block the conversion. to vitamin D and all these other things. that it does. >> So, redheads actually have a bit of a. superpower when it comes to their. relationship with the sunshine. They can. make significantly more. >> That depends. Now, if you pick up all. the Scotsmen. and you put them in Texas and Oklahoma, which is where I live, and many of the. people there. have red hair and they came from. Scotsmen. The problem is they're now in. an environment with very high sun.

levels. It's very hot in the summer and. they cannot tolerate the level of sun. That means if you get to a point on the. world where you pick up big populations. and you move them into another weather. type, they have not had enough time to. adapt. There are things about melanin. amounts. and our survival that make a difference. So, I still recommend that supplementing. with D is not the whole answer. Supplementation in and of itself is not.

what we want. What we want is our kids. to be outside much more. There are now. new learning environments for kids where. they're out in the forests, where they're not enclosed in school. rooms. >> There's some interesting stats I found. which says that 90% of Americans spend. close to 22 hours inside every day. That. was from USA Today. And roughly 20% of. Americans never go outside, regularly. spending 24 hours indoors. And downstream from vitamin D, there's.

not just sleep disruption, there's lots. of problems, isn't there? >> Yes. I can start listing them and. they're all related in the background to. what we've talked about, but diabetes, even though you've had lots of really. interesting shows about that, diabetes. is happening in parallel. with the sleep disorder. It's not caused. by the sleep disorder. It has similar. chemical in the background. There are many types, but diabetes just. means there's a mismatch between the. amount of insulin from the amount of.

sugar. Let me say that I'm not trying to say. that America doesn't eat badly. America. eats badly. I was just in Europe and the. eating patterns in the US are terrible, but. there are other things that are playing. a role and diabetes shows up. Remember. how Madeline had gestational diabetes? And so did this wonderful Natalie who. did everything we told her to. Why would.

Natalie show up with gestational. diabetes when she's not fat? Her. supply of this thing called coenzyme A. is not enough to keep up with supplying. the child and herself. So, for a while. she really has a deficiency state and. you start to see it. We've learned to. measure the sugar. And the measuring the. sugar is one of the signs of a. deficiency state that's in the. background that actually affects 100. things in the body. It makes. acetylcholine which allows our whole.

autonomic nervous system to sleep nor to. react normally. So, it affects all of. those things that we do is when we're. training and. it also affects cortisol levels. You. must have coenzyme A to make cortisol. You must have coenzyme A to make. melatonin. >> So, the things linked to vitamin D are. everything from bone disorders, autoimmune diseases, mental health, brain disorders, cardiovascular, metabolic issues, immune infections, and. then certain cancers. I I I imagine at. this stage in the conversation the. audience are very much looking for like. actionable advice. So, we've talked.

about the the right sleep protocol, which is this sort of vitamin approach. And then the other approach is to get. outside in the sunshine more. >> And you don't have to be in direct. sunlight. You have to be in direct. sunlight to make vitamin D on your skin. >> Okay. >> But, you should limit the amount that. you do, so you do not burn your skin. >> Mhm. >> And it's important [clears throat] that. UVA, if you're going to use a sun. um um. go to a tanning salon, if they're using. UVA, you are not making vitamin D from.

that. So, there are different kinds of. beds. UVA will still tan you, but it will not. make D. >> So, you don't have to be in direct sunlight. So, if I'm at a window and I can't see. the sun and it's overcast, am I still. making vitamin D? >> No, you can't make anything through the. window. >> Okay, so what I go outside, I can't see. the sun cuz there's clouds, I'm still. making vitamin D? >> Maybe. It can be that you will actually still. get a burn, okay? That is from UVA and.

UVB penetrating that cloud. >> Okay. >> So, that does mean that you can make. some vitamin D on a day that it's. cloudy. And the only way to know how much. vitamin D you are actually making is to. do your vitamin D levels over time. >> Looking at some data here, it says that. um you can make a little bit of vitamin. D during overcast times. Um up to 80% of. you UV radiation still penetrates light. cloud cover, so you can absolutely still. make vitamin D, though it might take a. few minutes longer than it would on a. completely clear day.

When it's thick, dark, and overcast uh. or dense storms or clouds, that can. block up to 70 to 90% of UVB rays. On. these days, it's incredibly difficult. for your skin to produce any meaningful. amount of vitamin D. You know these like lamps that they put. on desks and stuff? Can you get vitamin. D from that? >> No, but let me let me make you a point. here that's not in my field, but in the. infrared field. There are so many other wavelengths of. energy that you receive when you're. outside. So, you can be sitting on a. porch where you're not in direct.

sunlight, and you are still receiving. infrared. And infrared is one of the. most important. uh wavelengths that we know about that. penetrates the body several centimeters. and actually gives energy to the. mitochondria. Our bodies. are like little batteries that we. receive energy from sunlight and we can. do that sitting on the porch without. being in direct sunlight and. fire also, the reason why it looks red. is because it has infrared, and. incandescent bulbs, which we've now.

stopped using. >> So, what's the advice here? >> Some people believe that you should use. incandescent bulbs on a lamp that's on. your desk. The problem is. >> bulb? >> It gives you rays of light like LED. is an electron. um producing light source, which the. government has. suggested that is better than. incandescent lights. It's very difficult. to buy incandescent bulbs, like the. bulbs that we used to use. Now, you'll get halogen or LEDs and they.

do not give off infrared light energy. >> So, an incandescent bulb is the. old-school glass light bulbs and the. kind Thomas. Edison used to use. It creates light by. running an electrical current through. metal filament until it gets so hot that. it glows. Because it relies on raw heat, an incandescent bulb bulb behaves. exactly like a miniature fire or a tiny. piece of the sun. Hmm. So, yeah, those. incandescent bulbs are hard to harder to. come by these days, but yeah, my fiance. she's a big fan of them.

>> Yeah. >> And she's trying to fill our house with. them. >> Yeah. She's right. >> So, is there anything else, you know, I. also got these prebiotics here. Prebiotic probiotics. A lot of people. say that you should take prebiotics. probiotics. Have you tried giving them. to your patients? >> I was on probiotics and so were my. patients when we started and it had not. corrected the microbiome. It was just a. try. We're going to dump the bacteria. down there and maybe they'll get back to. normal, okay? That is what a probiotic is considered. They have the actual bacteria. freeze-dried and you eat the bacteria.

Kind of gross when you think about it as. being. poop bacteria, but that's what it is, okay? Now, what prebiotic has that's different is. that you feed the bacteria. and they feed you. That's really what happens. What I love. about this is. there are different things that they're. feeding the bacteria. We're kind of interested in what they. think. How do we know what they think? Well, what if I change to carnivore? And all of a sudden my belly gas goes.

away. >> The carnivore diet where you just eat. meat? >> Carnivore you eat mostly meat. Let's say. 90% meat. And most of my belly complaints go away. and I poop regularly, then you've just. been very successful at making your. bacteria very happy. What if the next client who I have. is a mostly plant-based? Then I have to change the way I think. and the way I help them and encourage. them to recognize that when we're.

feeding mostly plant-based, we have a. different set of bacteria. Now, let me. propose something to you. Humans cover the globe like cockroaches. We are very successful. And we have a hugely varied diet. I would claim that that means. you should eat the diet that works for. you. The place where you see something that. is really important for the US is the. original articles about vitamin.

deficiency states. were in two groups that ate a pure. carbohydrate diet. So, the claim right. now for most of the people that are. interested in healthy diets is if you. eat a fully carbohydrate diet, you're. set up for failure in a million. different ways. And then they talk about. the diet you should eat. There are two. incidences from the 1940s. where the first vitamin deficiency. states were described and both of them. turn out to be purely carbohydrate. diets.

One of them was in the Japanese prisoner. of war camps and the Bataan. [clears throat] Death March in World War. II where they had rice, rice, rice. That's it. And they're outside all the. time. They're not vitamin D deficient. They're discovered to have beriberi and. beriberi is an old disease described in. Japan when you take off the rice casing. So, ultimately they gave back meat and. vegetables and beriberi is described as.

heart failure, non-healing ulcers of the. legs, bright shiny red skin and burning in the. feet that we see in the elderly in the. US all the time in the hospital. That is now ignored, but you can. actually get to a state where you're. feeding only carbohydrates, but now the. lens you're looking through is I was. feeding my bacteria a purely. carbohydrate diet. I therefore selected. for bacterial populations.

that were not producing the B vitamins. that I needed. It's seeing it through a. slightly different lens. The same thing about pellagra, which is. actually a niacin deficiency in adults. and children that were institutionalized. in the South of the United States in the. '30s and '40s and fed corn gruel as. their only food. So, there's still a. piece of information there that is your. diet absolutely affects who lives inside. you. And once you have a purely.

carbohydrate diet for many years and. you're D deficient, it is very likely. you're going to have to do something. more aggressive. Either change your diet and do fermented. foods and change to a meat and plant. diet. And you're going to have to watch what. your body does. And if you're not able. in And my claim would still be the sleep. that you have should still be your best. measure of whether you succeeded in what. you'd like to do.

>> And again, to track your sleep, there's. lots of different ways to do that. Obviously, none of them are perfect, um. but you can buy sleep trackers and those. kinds of things and. see how you're doing. >> Yes, and I would also say use your sleep. tracker. I don't use mine regularly. because I get obsessed by it. I I start. to think. oh, I only had an hour and a half of REM. and I'm dying and I just get spiral. downward, okay? So, what your body is saying to you is still. very important. I didn't have sleep. trackers when I was seeing all these. things that were happening to Madeline.

and and Natalie. I would listen to what. they said about their sleep. >> I imagine a lot of people clicked on. this conversation because they are. struggling with sleep or they have a. partner or friend or maybe just because. they want to optimize their sleep a. little bit. And what I've really taken. away is that um a lot of sleep-related. issues start in the gut microbiome. >> Yes. >> to try and fix the gut microbiome and. how we fix the gut microbiome is can be. dietary. >> Yes. >> through supplementation. But we want to try and do it through. diet first and fermented foods. Um.

and then the other thing is sunlight. plays a big role. You're smoking again. >> You did a fabulous job. >> Oh, you're so sweet. Um the other The. other thing is sunlight plays a big role. because it produces vitamin D and. amongst other things, which also can. improve that balance and help us sleep. better. >> Yes. >> And we also want to try all the stuff. that everybody talks about. Matthew. Walker talks about temperature. >> Yes. >> eye masks and all that kind of stuff. I. guess the big insight here is that. vitamins play a really important role in. sleep. >> Yes. >> As you've seen through the thousands of. patients that you've.

spent time with and helped to restore to. a healthy sleep state. >> Yes. It's a beautiful summary. >> What is the most important thing we. haven't talked about that we should have. talked about? Is there anything at all? >> We have skipped the people who have been. told they have. a disease, narcolepsy, or sleep apnea, um where they're told there's a specific. This is a genetic thing, and you have to do these specific. things. For instance, for narcolepsy,

this is an attack of sleep that takes. you out and you become I'm sitting here. talking to you. and I fall asleep. That turns out to be. treatable in the same way. >> You're saying a lot of it can be about. vitamins. >> Yes, you can sleep deprive anyone to the. point of falling asleep when I talk to. you. All you have to do is, you know, two or three nights that you miss and. you can still become taken down by an. attack of sleep. That really is what. narcolepsy means. That means medicine in.

its attempt to classify things have said. this is a disease, and the idea that they are all about our. body falling out of its normal state. What's different about people who have. that. a specific diagnosis like sleep apnea. and narcolepsy is they are unlikely to. be able to cure that with going outside. and kimchi. They are at an end stage. Your body was.

really set up to be able to deal with. different diets, getting up in the. middle of the night to take care of your. baby, traveling long periods of time, all these stressors that we've had for. the last 300,000 years. It was set up to. do that and to get back to sleeping. again. And people live for long periods of. time. That wasn't the average, but there. were people that lived to be 75 years. old 20,000 years ago. That means that's the best we can do.

If you have a disease of your sleep. switches, you are really severely. affected, and my experience would say. that that person is not going to be able. to approach it by just going outside and. doing kimchi. That person's going to need some extra. help and they're going to need sometimes. professional help with someone who's. seeing it through this lens. Because they go through changes. They. For instance, when when you get them a. little bit better.

so that they're sleeping at night, they. actually start to have nightmares. What that means in a setting like that. is they've actually gotten into REM. sleep. but they haven't gotten perfect. chemistry so that they sleep through the. REM. phase, finish up, go into light sleep, and then go to the next. They've. awakened so they can't keep themselves. in REM. There are transition states. where they actually feel like they're. getting worse. So there are all sorts of. things that I've been able to see that.

are not talked about at the sleep. meetings, that are totally fascinating, that are halfway better. and that people can cure their. narcolepsy. I have one gal right now. who just called me to become a client. She has narcolepsy and she has. completely cured herself by using. nicotine patches around the clock. Why? Because there is only one drug that. duplicates acetylcholine completely and.

it's nicotine. So she stopped smoking and she uses. nicotine patches. Nicotine is the. duplicate of acetylcholine. Acetylcholine allows us to focus, pay. attention, be distracted and come right. back during the day. It is in control of. our ability to concentrate. At night, it. allows us to get into REM sleep. That. one chemical does wake and sleep. Does. it in different parts of the brain. That means she is using something that.

has been terribly vilified. Tobacco is. considered to be the cause of all evil. It turns out, oddly enough, the guys. with Parkinson's disease who smoked. throughout the last 30 years have been. shown to do better because Parkinson's. disease is an acetylcholine deficiency. state first. >> To give a bit of background on, I guess, the the problem we've really talked. about, um I have this little paragraph. here which I thought summarizes the. nature of the problem and the sleep. epidemic. It says, "While While. industrialization first disrupted our.

natural rhythms by moving society. indoors, the true explosion of sleep. disorders occurred in two modern phases, a medical boom in the 1980s and a. digital epidemic in the 2000s. In the. 1980s, the formal recognition of sleep. medicine and the intervention of the. CPAP machine diagnosed millions with. obstructive sleep apnea, sparking a. surge in clinical treatments. The. medicalization transformed into into a. cultural crisis by the 2000s as. sedentary indoor lifestyles starved us.

of natural daytime sunlight. Sunlight. exposure is vital because its. high-intensity brightness resets the. brain's master internal clock and. suppresses daytime melatonin, which. establishes a definitive biological. countdown for deep sleep at night. Deprived of this anchoring cue and. bombarded by a 24/7 hustle culture and. smartphones pumping blue light into our. bedrooms, society succumbs to a. devastating double-edged sword. Too. little sun by day to synchronize the. brain and too much artificial light by.

night to allow it to rest. The modern. circadian mismatch culminated in an. acute spike during the 2020 pandemic. lockdowns, solidifying an era where our indoor. environments are fundamentally at war. with our evolutionary sleep biology.". >> I love that. Who wrote that? Is that AI? >> It was AI that wrote that. >> Yeah. Now, that's the fascinating part. of this. AI doesn't care whether or not. my colleagues think I'm crazy. AI is not affected by what the Endocrine.

Society says about D. AI is just giving. us. the raw data, okay? Then, if you put in. there something like, "What does Dr. Gominak think about whether or not um. sun exposure is the whole story for. sleep?" You'll start to see my stuff. leaking through there saying, "Yes, it's. true that the pineal gland makes. melatonin and that that's part of how we. get to the 10:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. But, it's also true that vitamin D has.

receptors in the brainstem. That means that we are at the edge of. about mhm a big change where some of. these ideas that we talked about today. that are very deep and very wide are. going to be there available in a. beautifully written way by AI. And I. think in this particular case, we've. jumped around medicine and its craziness. and its conservative feeling. It's been taken over by.

an. an electronic thing that's not affected. by our cultural ideals of who's smart. and who's not. >> What is the central idea that you. believe that most of the mainstream. industry don't believe? I will I will do. as you say and I will ask the AI. >> Most of the sleep disorders, including. sleep apnea and narcolepsy, all the ones. that the neurologists have described, are really related at basis by D and. multiple things that are made by the. microbiome that the microbiome and the D.

deficiency are very much linked and that. there are hundreds of things that are. playing a role in our sleep switches. that are supplied by the microbiome. >> So, I'll I'll summarize that as how many. of the sleep. disorders. caused by the microbiome. I'm using Gemini Pro, which is. the most advanced model. I always use it. for fact-checking and stuff. So, it. says, "You are completely wrong." I'm. joking. It didn't say that.

>> [laughter]. >> It says, "Yes, the connection is. massive. While we can't say the. microbiome is the sole cause of every. sleep disorder, scientists now know that. a damaged gut is a major hidden driver. of poor sleep.". Because both the melatonin pipeline. starts in the gut. Manufacturing the calm down chemical is. in the gut. And the cortisol alarm. system is linked to the gut. The. trickiest part of the microbiome sleep. connection.

is that it it is a. bidirectional loop. A bad microbiome. causes poor sleep. Poor sleep alters the. microbiome. So, while anatomical issues, like a. narrow airway causes sleep apnea, or. light mismatch, like the lack of near. infrared light, play huge roles, fixing. chronic insomnia often requires healing. the gut just as much as fixing your. bedtime routine. >> The lack of near infrared light. That's. amazing. Medicine will not. [clears throat]. be talking about that anytime soon. It's.

too wacky. It's too woo woo. And yet, that means those ideas are available to. us. >> We have a closing tradition on this. podcast where the last guest leaves a. question for the next guest not knowing. who they're leaving it for. And the. question left for you is more Yeah, I. guess it is a question. It says, "Describe the best day of your life.". Ooh.

>> I I'm going to have to stick with what. pops into my mind first, which is relatively recently. Uh we were in. Seville, I think. And it was very hot. And my husband and I have been traveling. for three or four weeks together, which. is the longest time we've spent together. in a long time, and we were sitting. playing Canasta. outside underneath an umbrella that had. little. misters, and we were just sitting there.

playing Canasta together. And. it's not about it was not about. accomplishment, it was about. having this marvelous circumstance where. we're just. hanging out together. and having a very pleasant time. together. That was my. my best day. in recent memory. >> [snorts]. >> Dr. Stasha, where should people go to. learn more. from you?

>> drgolmanac, no period after dr.com, and I have a YouTube channel where I. have lots of I have a whole series of 50. things called sleep chats. where I talk about. if I have carpal tunnel syndrome, will. right sleep program help me? If I have. this, will right and why? >> I'll link all of that for you below. So, everybody can go to those resources. They'll be in linked in the description. below of this episode. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. It's been wonderful.

>> to you, Stasha. >> YouTube have this new crazy algorithm. where they know exactly what video you. would like to watch next based on AI and. all of your viewing behavior, and the. algorithm says that this video is the. perfect video for you. It's different. for everybody looking right now. Check. this video out, I bet you you might love. it.